1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories with 2 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I'm executive producer Jackie Howard. Thirty two year 3 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: old Elizabeth Sullivan was last seen October thirteenth near her 4 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: home in San Diego, California. She met with an attorney 5 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: that day, arranging to visit the lawyer's office the next day. 6 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: That night, Elizabeth Sullivan called a friend in Virginia, then 7 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: never used her cell phone again. She also did not 8 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: show up at the attorney's office the next day. Two 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: years later, the police get a phone call listened to 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: NBC seven Big Mystery. Tonight in the waters of San 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: Diego Bay, Alice found a woman's body on the shore 12 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: of the Liberty Station Channel. NBC seven's Dave Summers is 13 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: there with what might make this investigation quite challenging? Dave Yeah, well, 14 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: and the channel runs along NTC park Mark and Katherine's 15 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: popular spot to walk your dog, cycle, play soccer, just 16 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: about anything outdoors. But San Diego police were called here 17 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: on a grizzly errand a woman's body was found in 18 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: the water behind me. Elizabeth Sullivan's decomposing body was found 19 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: just half a mile from her home, floating in the 20 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: San Diego Bay. She had been missing for two years, 21 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: but a former San Diego County Deputy medical examiner who 22 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: helped conduct the autopsy says decomposition made it difficult to 23 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: narrow down her time of death. It also led to 24 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: another conclusion. The medical examiner did not believe that Elizabeth 25 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: Sullivan had been in the bay for the two years 26 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: she was missing. He said the decomposition would have been 27 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: more advanced. The autopsy showed that Elizabeth's body was decomposing 28 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: in a way that indicated that she had lain for 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: some time. On one side, Elizabeth was identified through dental records. 30 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Joe Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics 31 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State University, and all of blood beneath my feet, Joe. 32 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: There is so much going on in this case. But 33 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: before we get to her actual cause of death, let's 34 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about what's going on right here. 35 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: Elizabeth's body is found in the water. So number one, 36 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: she is dead. Number two, her body has been in 37 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: the water, and number three, she has been missing for 38 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: two years. Where do you start. Well, I can tell 39 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: you this Jackie in an aquatic world or an aquatic environment, 40 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: where her body was actually found. This is a saltwater environment. Okay, 41 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: this is not like a freshwater pond or something like that. 42 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: This is a saltwater body. So you're going to have 43 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: all kinds of different marine life that are there. Most notably, 44 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: particularly in cases like this, you're going to have crustaceans, 45 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: particularly crabs. To be very specific, and folks don't want 46 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: to hear this, but crabs have a proclivity for feasting 47 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: on human remains. That's what they do. I worked for 48 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: a long time in New Orleans, and one of the 49 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: fights that we had down there when we were trying 50 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: to get bodies identified and trying to frame a time 51 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: of death, was the fact that we would always recover 52 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: these bodies and there would be crustaceans all over them. 53 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: We'd have crawfish, we'd have crabs, this sort of thing. 54 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: And in this particular case, I would imagine that when 55 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: the medical examiner found her body, and the body, though decomposed, 56 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: was so relatively intact, they could surmise just based on 57 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: the fact that you didn't have some kind of postmortem 58 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: feasting by crustaceans, and that the body was relatively intact, 59 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: she had not been in there for that protracted period 60 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: of time. After two years, just the sea life itself 61 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: would have essentially made her body disappear. She would have 62 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: been ingested and then dispersed throughout the waterway. But then, 63 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, we think about this environment. This is a 64 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: very harsh environment. Remember it's a salt water environment. You've 65 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: got bodies, particularly with the rising and falling the tides, 66 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: they're banged up against rocks, all these sorts of things. 67 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: There's no evidence that that had occurred, and her body 68 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,839 Speaker 1: was not actually out in the middle of the bay 69 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: but on an adjacent canal. And interestingly enough, if you 70 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: go back and you take a look at some of 71 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: the crime scene images they have, you can tell that 72 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: the tide was actually down. I suspect that that's how 73 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: they were able to notice, first off, that there was 74 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: a body down there. If the water has slipped down, 75 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: she's just kind of caught up in this eddy along 76 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: this canal. She never made it out into the open water. 77 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: So if Elizabeth Sullivan's body had been in the water 78 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: for two years, would it have been skeletonized and what 79 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: would we have actually expected to see. Yeah, in answer 80 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: to your question, Jackie, there is a high probability that 81 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: her body would at minimum have been skeletonized. In my opinion, 82 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: you would have had a completely dis articulated body. That 83 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: means that at all of the joints the body would 84 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: have essentially fallen apart by this time. And that doesn't 85 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: necessarily have anything to do with the marine life that 86 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: you're encountering. It has to do with the intense environmental 87 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: conditions like heat, that the body is exposed to over 88 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: a period of time. It's almost like, and I hate 89 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: to be this graphic, but it's almost like the body 90 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: is in a slow heating crock pot over this period 91 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: of time and the body literally falls apart, particularly at 92 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: the joints, and then it will just kind of disperse out. 93 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: And you don't have to have a marine life in 94 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: order to affect that. So and also one other thing, 95 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: when you're talking about sea life that feast on human remains, 96 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: something that they go for in particular are the appendages 97 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: You're it's not like a wild animal that's going to 98 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: go for the throat or something like that. Mammals say, 99 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: for instance that we have on dry land, they love 100 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: to get after the appendages. Many times we would have 101 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: bodies that I have work cases on out of salt 102 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: water where the nose is gone, the lips are gone, 103 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: the ears are gone. Certainly the fingers are almost completely gone, 104 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: and these animals kind of work their way up the 105 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: marine life that is up to the torso. So in 106 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: this particular case, you're not seeing that. So for us 107 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: in the forensics world, that's a big clue that something's 108 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: not right here. Can you imagine showing up at the 109 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: scene and you might have an indication that it might 110 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: be a particular person, you know, they've been missing for 111 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: two years perhaps, But yet the body is intact. It's 112 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: intact and within a couple of miles of where she 113 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: formerly resided. So if I understood what you were telling 114 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: me just then, Joe, you were saying that the body 115 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: would have been dispersed. Are you telling me that basically 116 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: the body would have been dismembered, not dismembered in the 117 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: classic sense when we think about someone taking say, for instance, 118 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: saw or some type of power tool and literally dismembering 119 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: the body, taking it apart piece by piece. This happens 120 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: over a period of time where bodies actually just kind 121 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: of come loose and fall apart, particularly at the joints 122 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: you'll have. And this is without interaction with sea life. 123 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: This is just simply something that heat and time play 124 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: a factor in. When you have bodies that are decomposing 125 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: and there's something else that's going on too. There's also 126 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: an internal, an internal event that's going on, which we 127 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: refer to in forensics as autolysis. And to make it 128 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: very simple to get past all the scientific mumbo jumbo, 129 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: think of it in this terms, bodies actually begin to 130 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: digest themselves. The cells break down, and the body almost 131 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: begins to consume itself. The tissue becomes very soft and 132 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: rendered and literally falls apart over a period of time. 133 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: So when you're talking about a force as powerful as 134 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: the Pacific Ocean, keep in mind this is not too 135 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: far away from where the Navy Seals train in Coronado. 136 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: They have to deal with these tides that are remarkable 137 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: in this area. They want they want those guys that 138 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: are going through that training to be subjected to this. 139 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: We know their strong tidds. She's held in this particular area. 140 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: You would think that if she had had been deposited 141 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: there for say a couple of years, her body would 142 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: have long been swept out to sea, but that just 143 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: wasn't the case. Time stories with Nancy Grace. We now 144 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: know that Elizabeth's husband has been arrested and convicted, Matthew Solomon. 145 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: He's now serving sixteen years to life in prison for 146 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: the second degree murderer of his wife. But as the 147 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: forensic technolians were making their investigation, especially in the home, 148 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: they found a significant amount of blood. What does that 149 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: tell you, Well, I tell you, Jackie. One of the 150 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: most fascinating things about that that they uncovered about the perpetrator, 151 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: now he can be named as Matthew Scott Sullivan, her husband, 152 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: is the fact that he actually went out and bought 153 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: a carpet cleaner. Now, you know, we would think that 154 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: if you buy a carpet cleaner, it superheats water and 155 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: then the detergent that she used and it literally sucks 156 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: everything up. He had allegedly purchased one within short order 157 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 1: of her disappearing. Can you imagine using this thing and 158 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: not getting up the blood that was left behind. And 159 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: my hats off to these technicians because this area that 160 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: you're talking about, it actually it actually was found in 161 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,719 Speaker 1: the carpet. So just think about this. There's a lot 162 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: of things that if a perpetrator, I guess anybody is 163 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: went around cleaning up. You're clean up, and you think 164 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: you've done a fantastic job. When you begin to apply 165 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: the chemical test that are applied, you know, things like 166 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: blue star and lumin all and all these sorts of 167 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: tools that they have, all of a sudden, that area 168 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: luminesces doesn't it. It means that you haven't gotten anything up. 169 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: He did not do the amount of work and certainly 170 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: apply the amount of elbow grease that would have been 171 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: necessary in order to kind of lift that stain out. 172 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: Probably retrospectively, he would have been much better served had 173 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: he essentially gone and taken up that carpet and replace 174 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: the carpet, and probably at the end of the day, 175 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: no one would have been any of the wiser, at 176 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: least from looking for trace evidence, that blood evidence that 177 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: was left behind in the carpet. But still, after all 178 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: those years, those forensic technicians who did a bang up 179 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: job on this case actually went out even after this 180 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: guy tried to clean it up with superheated liquid, and 181 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: they still discovered and like you said, Jackie, they identified 182 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: a large pool of blood, very specific and they were 183 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: able to actually tie that blood back to the victim. 184 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: The coroner's report laid out a pretty grim death for 185 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Sullivan. The corner discovered that she had been stabbed 186 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: to death, and he found five different ribs on the 187 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: left side or her back that had knicks or cuts 188 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: to them. That tells us that this was a pretty 189 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: violent episode, wasn't it. Yeah, it would have been. And 190 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: the language in this is very curious when you look 191 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: at it, Jackie, because you're thinking about, well, they're saying 192 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: that most probably these were consistent with stab wounds. That 193 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: gives us an indication of how decomposed her body was 194 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: at this particular time. And we're talking about nicks. If 195 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: people will just think about, if you'll envision in your 196 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: mind the letter V. Okay, the letter V, and when 197 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: a knife actually passes between the soft tissue which is 198 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: called the intercostal space between our ribs that's where the 199 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: actual muscle is and the bone itself, the blade, the 200 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: blade actually nixed that bone, and microscopically, when we look 201 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: at that bone under magnification, it looks like the letter V. 202 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: It's this kind of carved out area where you can 203 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: see the knife has passed through there. What's really kind 204 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: of gruesome about this is that many times you can 205 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: appreciate even in the bone, you can appreciate if there 206 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: is a focal area what we call focal area of hemorrhage, 207 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: even into the bone. This gives us an indication that what, well, simply, 208 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: if you have blood within the bone, you know that 209 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: the individual was still alive while they were being staffed. However, 210 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: if you had a dismemberment case, for instance, you're not 211 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: going to see any kind of indwelling blood that's left 212 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: behind on that bone, So that gives them an indication that, yeah, 213 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: these were probably fatal injuries that she sustained. Not only 214 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: that she had sustained pretty significant fractures to both her 215 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: jaw and her nose, which means that she was pummeled. 216 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: She was beaten by this individual as well, and maybe 217 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: not just beaten, she may have been stomped, because let's 218 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: keep in mind, in order to kind of knock her 219 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: down and keep her in this position, you would have 220 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: a perpetrator that's dominant over her. If he's stomping on 221 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: her face, if he's using it takes a tremendous amount 222 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: of force with a fist to break a nose and 223 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: break a jaw. No, we think that in the movies 224 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: that it's really easy to do. It's really not. But 225 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: to the jawbone is very resilient. I would lean actually 226 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: in a case like this of somebody stomping on them. 227 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,719 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons is is because they're identifying 228 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: all of these stab wounds, it seems to me that 229 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: this might be a case of impassion to overkill. So, Joe, 230 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: there's one more component to this that is probably the 231 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: crux of the entire case. Where was Elizabeth Sullivan's body 232 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: for the two years she was missing? So when the 233 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: forensic technicians and investigators came into their home, they also 234 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: brought a cadaver dog. That cadaver dog hit on a 235 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: location where a freezer had been in the home for 236 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,359 Speaker 1: a very long time. So we now know that Sullivan's 237 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: body had been in the freezer for two years. Matthew 238 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: Sullivan had only moved the body because he himself was 239 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: moving to a new town with his new fiance and 240 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: their new baby and his children, his two children with 241 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Sullivan. So the freezer, what does that do to 242 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: a body? How does that affect the investigation doesn't change 243 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: the investigation. One of the most compelling things and one 244 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: of the big mysteries that always surround cases involving bodies 245 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: that have been placed in freezers. I think one of 246 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: the cases that comes to mind to me is the 247 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: case that made the movie Bernie quite popular with Jack 248 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: Black and I think Matthew McConaughey was in it, and 249 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: it was based on a true story of a woman 250 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: in Texas who had been shot multiple times and then 251 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: stuffed down into a deep freezer. That's a true story, 252 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: and that's not the only time that's happened. My Lord 253 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmer did it, and there's been any number of 254 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: cases over the years where this has been facilitated. One 255 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: of the big problems that you run up against are 256 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: actually one of the clues that you can look for 257 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: is not something that you're going to see with what 258 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: we refer to in forensics as the unaided eye. This 259 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: is something that you have to look for microscopically, and 260 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: keep in mind, we already know that the corner and 261 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: the forensics technicians are already onto something here. They're already 262 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: suspect she could not have been in that body of 263 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: water for that period of time. So it's going to 264 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: give them an investigative direction to go in. They're going 265 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: to look at her slides very carefully. What are they 266 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: looking for. Well, there will be changes, particularly in what 267 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: we refer to as the gut, and I'm talking about 268 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: like the stomach, and particularly in the intestines. When you 269 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: take sections to those, and that's one of the things 270 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: that we do at autopsy, we take big sections of 271 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: tissue and store them. You can actually see where in 272 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: the first stage of decomposition, at a cellular level, the 273 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: cells begin to break down. Remember what I talked about 274 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: autolesis earlier. That just means that the body is just 275 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: kind of visa the enzymes and all of these cells. 276 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: They're beginning to break down, and you'll have this kind 277 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: of cellular debris that kind of leaches out. Okay, now, 278 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: that's something that you would expect to happen in a 279 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: body that was perhaps decomposed founded in the woods, you 280 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: would find it. But in the case of deep freeze 281 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: in a body for a moment in time, you actually 282 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: retard that process and you freeze that moment in time. 283 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: So there's evidence of that microscopically and that's one of 284 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: the big things that they look for. These cases are 285 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: not solved by looking for frost on the eyebrows or 286 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: on the tip of the nose. They're actually solved by 287 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: looking actually through the lens of a microscope to see 288 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: what has happened to this tissue, and the tissue will 289 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: tell the truth in these cases consistently throughout. When decomposition 290 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: is essentially frozen in time, you'll get this kind of 291 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: abrupt ending to this cycle of atolysis that has begun 292 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden it stops. So that's 293 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: what they're looking for microscopically, and that's where they'll make 294 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: that diagnosis. Thanks to Joe scob Morgan, professor of forensics 295 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State University, you can check out his book 296 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. For more information on 297 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: this case. You can go to crime online dot com 298 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: for crime stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Jackie Howard.