1 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. Suspect is barricaded in his apartment. 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: He has four hostages, all children. When you're dealing with 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: children in a hostage situation, it can be a long process. 5 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: The right words are crucial. We've talked to several times. 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: OPD hostage negotiators have had roughly half a dozen conversations 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: by cell phone with this suspect. Investigators say he barricaded 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: himself and said an apartment Sunday following a domestic dispute 9 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: with his girlfriend. There was a woman who had met 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: her officers off site and related to our officers that 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: her boyfriend had battered her. And at some point there 12 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: was a change of gunfire. We saw from the window. 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: It was it would blood out his face. I think 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: he was shot someone wearing the face or something here. 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: It was horrible. It all started off with an argument 16 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: between a boyfriend and a girlfriend. By the end of it, 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: five people are dead, an officer is wounded. Why did 18 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: it in this way? We all went to bed last 19 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: night praying that these four tiny children would survive. A 20 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: hostage standoff in Orlando, Florida, No one could take in 21 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: that their own dad, two of them, and mommy's boyfriend 22 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: to the other two would actually take their lives. We 23 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: woke up this morning to the worst news. All four 24 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: children are dead. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 25 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. What happened and how 26 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: could it have been stopped? I'm talking about Gary Wayne 27 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: Lindsay Jr. Thirty five years old, allegedly gets into an 28 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: argument with his girlfriend when police are called. Instead of 29 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: walking out with his hands in the air, he starts 30 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: shooting at police officers. One officer struck during gunfire exchange. 31 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: He's at the hospital where he had to undergo surgery, 32 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: and then he barricades himself inside the apartment there in Orlando, Florida, 33 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: taking the four children hostage, to his biological children, to 34 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: the biological children of the girlfriend. A man accused of 35 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: battering his girlfriend shoots an officer and barricades himself in 36 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: a Florida apartment. Joining me right now, Crime Stories investigative 37 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: reporter John Limley now New York psychologist Karen Stark, former cop, 38 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: current private investigator Vincent Hill. John Limley just it's so 39 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: hard for me to take in that This all unfolded 40 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,399 Speaker 1: really right before our eyes, and when we all fell 41 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: asleep last night, there was some of the last words 42 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: on my lips. Lord, please protect those four little children 43 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: and be with the cop in surgery. What happened, John Nancy. 44 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: This was a long, almost twenty four hour or deal. 45 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: The standoff began at some point in the later hours 46 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: of Sunday. They received a call around five Sunday. A 47 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: woman called said she had been beaten by Gary Wayne 48 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: Lindsay at the Westbrook Apartments. The woman had fled the 49 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: second story apartment to a nearby restaurant on Kirkman Road. 50 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: Uh to actually call police. Officers tried to arrest Lindsay 51 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: at the apartment and that's when the shootout began and 52 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: the reality of it all to Vincent Hill, former private investigator, 53 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:15,119 Speaker 1: is on a domestic very often, the cops go in, 54 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: they remove the purp, which is typically the man from 55 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: the scene. He might get a simple battery at trial 56 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: from slapping or hitting the woman. He might get a 57 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: temporary restraining order. He might be ordered off the premises 58 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: and usually, sadly that's all that happens. That was what 59 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: he was facing. Am I right about that Vincent. You're 60 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: absolutely right, Nancy. But the thing about domestics, and I've 61 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: been in a hostage situation which stems from a domestic 62 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: it's the most dangerous situation for a cop to go to. 63 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: You have the motions that are running high. It's hard 64 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: to de escalate that scene. And unfortunately, that's what happened 65 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: here in Orlando Sunday night. You know, I kept telling 66 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: you this to Alan, Do you joining me from l A. 67 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: Do you remember the high school teacher, Tag Cummins that 68 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: made off with the student, leaving his wife and his 69 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: world behind, and he's finally found across the country in 70 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest, hiding out in some commune. Remember I 71 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: kept saying, I'm so worried this is going to escalate 72 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: into a hostage situation. I just had that on my 73 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: mind so heavily. Do you remember that, Alan, do? I? Yes, 74 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: we watched that drama unfold across the country for weeks 75 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: and we were very worried because this guy had said 76 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: that he had guns. He had guns, all right, he 77 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: certainly did. And you know in these situations, Kire and 78 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: start New York psychologist is so volatile. One of my well, 79 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: my best girlfriend. When I was prosecuting defense lawyer, she 80 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: dealt with dopers, killers, molesters, you name it. She said 81 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: she'd rather defend a doper, a dope lord than get 82 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: involved in a divorce or a domestic because he gets 83 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: so heated and so crazy, they'll drive by the lawyer's 84 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: house and take a shot at them. So, I mean, 85 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: that's a sad comment when you'd rather handle a dope 86 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: lord and defend them then stick your hand between two 87 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: people fighting in a domestic because the emotions are so charged, Nancy, 88 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: I really do understand it that there's aggression, there's anger, rage, 89 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: and impulsiveness, as you can see in this particular situation. 90 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: Back to you, John Linley, Crime Stories investigative reporter John, So, 91 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: there's a domestic he's beating her um. Having worked at 92 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: the Battered Women's Center for nine years in the evenings 93 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: as a volunteer, it escalates so quickly. What police have 94 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: to do is try to get in there and de 95 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: escalate it. What happened well, when this shootout began, Orlando 96 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: police officer was struck almost immediately. This officer, Kevin Valencia, 97 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 1: he suffered a significant injury. He's recovering after surgery, listed 98 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: in critical condition at that moment, this is almost twenty 99 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: four hours after the standoff began. H officers use some 100 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: sort of explosive to get into the apartment to try 101 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: to rescue the children, and as soon as they enter, 102 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: they see one child right there on the on the 103 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: floor next to the front door, already dead. Four children 104 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: found dead after a standoff, a hostage situation right here. 105 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like it is in some other country. 106 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: It's so so horrible. They go in to find the 107 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: four children dead. What do we know about this guy? 108 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: What provoked him? What went wrong? Vincent Hill, private investigator, 109 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: You and I have both taken apart in hostage situations before. 110 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: Um me as looking at it to prosecute it. You 111 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: in the thick of it. What is the s o 112 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: P standard operating procedure in a hostage situation, especially when 113 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: there are children involved? And the answer, you definitely want 114 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: to de escalate the situation because an officer's job number 115 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: one is perservation of life. You have to protect and serve, right, 116 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: so you want to protect those children in there, So 117 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: you want to do all you can to de escalate 118 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: the situation to get that individual to eventually come out. 119 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: But I don't think this individual even had that in 120 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: his hands. But how do you do it? How do 121 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: you do it? Don't don't talk, Police can talk to me. 122 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: How do you convince somebody to put their gun down 123 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: and let the children live? So it takes time to answer. 124 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: You have to get them to think that you're on 125 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: their side and that you want to see this through. 126 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: Once you start getting them to believe you're on their 127 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: that's when you start to build that trust, and eventually 128 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: they do that. How long did this go on? The standoff? 129 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: John Limley The entire timeline from start to finish was 130 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: approximately twenty hours that all of this took place. Of course, 131 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: they're still trying to determine at which point, uh the 132 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: gunman actually killed himself as well. After twenty hours of standoff, 133 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:34,479 Speaker 1: police find Gary Wayne Lindsay Jr. Dead in a closet, 134 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: apparently from a self inflicted gunshot wound. All four children 135 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: he was holding hostage dead from gunshot wounds. Listen, We 136 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: made entry j Marvin and found that for all four children, 137 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: I've been rolled by the suspect by parent crackshot woun 138 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: and appears to the suspects accusing my name as well. 139 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: Our hearts go out to all the families. Bob and 140 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: I know everyone has a lot of questions very early 141 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: on in this investigation of this scene. Also want union 142 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: update on Officer Kevin Valencia. Um. He remains in critical condition. 143 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: UM so we're still last moved for the loss of 144 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: prayers moving as well. This is going down at about 145 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: twelve thirty a m. Last night. It is unclear when 146 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: thirty five year old Lindsay actually killed the children where 147 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: they killed. At the very beginning, we don't know. Their 148 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: age is one, six, ten and eleven. So you know, 149 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: the ten year old and the eleven year old knew 150 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: what was happening while they were being held hostage. They 151 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: knew they were away from mommy. My children are ten. 152 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: They still believe in Santa Claus and to think what 153 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: this guy did to them. A police officer taking a 154 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: bullet wound, having to undergo surgery in the night, all 155 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: starting over a domestic incident. What do we know about 156 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: this guy, this guy whose name will forever be in infamy, 157 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: Gary Wayne Lindsay Jr. John Linley, What do we know 158 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: about him? Records date all the way back to two 159 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: thousand eight, showing that Lindsay was at the time this 160 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: weekend on felony probation, having pleaded no contest to chatter 161 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: charges of arson of a dwelling, willful fleeing or eluding 162 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: law enforcement, and domestic battery um even as recently as 163 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: twelve another incident shows that he was arrested on domestic violence, 164 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: another incident involving a woman at an apartment complex. And 165 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: it's still unclear how he was able to continue down 166 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: this path of you may be out walking free with 167 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: all those convictions and on probation and promo precisely, precisely 168 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: law enforced saying that they were in constant contact with 169 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: Lindsay throughout these twenty hours and that he was on 170 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 1: his cell phone. His cell phone was connected via WiFi. 171 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: The connection was, as they say, spotty. Can you imagine 172 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: what those children are going through. They want to go 173 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: to their mommy's. He's got them up in the night. 174 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: He's on the cell phone. Now. Cops continue to use 175 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: others to contact him, but around eight thirty in the evening, 176 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: they try to get him one of their phones so 177 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: they can talk to him more directly, and the cop 178 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: in charge of handing that phone over noticed immediately this 179 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: is an eight thirty that one of the children were 180 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: visibly dead. So one child we know of was dead 181 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: at eight thirty pm. Around nine o'clock, there was a 182 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: loud boom. The sound was near the entrance to the apartment, 183 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: and that is where they find Lindsay and all four 184 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: children dead. Two of the children were his, the other 185 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: two were related to the woman who went out of 186 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: the apartment at the beginning. A lot of people this 187 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: morning pointing the finger at her. Why is it always 188 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: that way? Why didn't she take the children with her? 189 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, but she's not the one that pulled 190 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: the trigger on four little children. A domestic violence case 191 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: explodes in the headlines. Listen to what law enforcement says 192 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: in a late night pressor how how did all happened? 193 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: How did the children die? How did the suspect done? 194 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: So the children died from a parent gunshow moves and 195 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: it appears the suspect took his life as well. Pointed 196 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: around nine o'clock that you guys went and entered the 197 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: home on the exact time. It's approximate time. When's the 198 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: last time you spoke to the suspect. We have been 199 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: constant contact both directly and indirectly throughout the day, Um 200 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: and as late as the nine o'clock hour. When from 201 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: the suspect? Though, that's when? When did you hear from 202 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: the suspect last? The last time we made a contact 203 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: with the suspect was indirectly around the around the eight 204 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: thirty nine o'clock hour. When do you when do you 205 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: think the children were killed? We have no idea when 206 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: those four children lost their lives. That will all be 207 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: part of the investigation. Do you believe we heard a 208 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: big boom around nine o'clock? Was that? How did that happen? 209 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: Wasn't you guys got indication from the suspect that something 210 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: bad had happened? Is that why you went in the 211 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: so earlier tonight? Um? Like I said, we had been 212 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: in direct and indirect contact with the suspect. At one point, Um, 213 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: we were having trouble um with the suspects phone. He 214 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: had one of those WiFi only phone so, uh, the 215 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: connection really wasn't good. And although we're talking gets him 216 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: through other means. We wanted to talk to him on 217 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: the phone. You want to hitch you. We tried to 218 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: introduce one of our owns. And when we did that, 219 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: we noticed one of the child Uh. One of the 220 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: children were obviously deceased them uh. And that's why we 221 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: decided to start our our plans to to make a 222 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: treat try and rescue resting Shil. Was he dead when 223 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: you guys arrived or did he kill himself after the 224 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: irondal when you guys went into the apartment. Did he 225 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: then gret to kill himself and then kill himself already 226 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: already commenditation Uh? This rot officers found him in the 227 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: closet already ceased. The crime stories with Nancy Grace on 228 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: Serious XI Triumph one thirty two. Did you know about 229 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: a recent law that could leave your personal data exposed 230 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: online for anybody to find? 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A gorgeous 312 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: young bride to be who just broke open the piggy 313 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: Bang to order a handmade ten thousand dollar wedding dress, 314 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: shot dead in her own front yard, her parents inside 315 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: the home after a Sunday evening at the ice cream parlor. 316 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: What happened in the very latest Hold onto your hat. 317 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: A police chief has been put on leave, kicked out, 318 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: escorted out a police headquarters in the middle of this 319 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: young and gorgeous teachers homicide investigation. And that's not all 320 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: police personnel falling one by one. But why and are 321 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: we any closer to solving the mystery as to who 322 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: murdered Rachel del Tondo in the middle of all this 323 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: police fatality one after the next, being suspended, fired, put 324 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: on leave, you name it, We search for the truth. 325 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: I mean, see, Grace, this is crime stories. Thank you 326 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: for being with us. Well, it all started right here 327 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: where Rachel del Tondo, with stars in her eyes, planned 328 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,959 Speaker 1: to marry. Take a listen to this. When Rachel got engaged, 329 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: Mom took over planning a big time wedding, including a 330 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: nearly ten thousand dollar gown to be handmade by a 331 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: New York designer that was a custom dress had to 332 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: be made to her um measurements. The family put down 333 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: at a positive more than four thousand dollars that, according 334 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: to the contract, was nonrefundable and non transferable under any circumstances. 335 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: They bought the dress at and Gregory for the bride 336 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: in dormant Rachel del Tondo was measured, the family put 337 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: down nearly half. It's made to order and there's no 338 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 1: exchanges about no refunds. I understood that four months after 339 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: the contract was signed, the wedding was called off. Lisa 340 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: del Tondo called the New York designer to see if 341 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 1: they had started on the dress and asked for a refund. 342 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: I called New York. I did. He told me it 343 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: couldn't be done now amidst all this wedding dress confusion, 344 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: and I'll circle back to a ten thousand dollar wedding 345 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: dress that really stretched the family budget. But that's what 346 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: everybody wanted, the fairytale wedding. Then her death. Listen, it's 347 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: shameful that this woman was painted with the with the 348 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: police report that had been written that did not result 349 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,719 Speaker 1: in criminal charges, it was a personal vendetta against her 350 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: at the time. Joining me right now, John Paul Vanessovich, 351 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: Editor reporter with the Beaver County and dot Com. He 352 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: initially published the police report that resulted in Deltonda's firing 353 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: and she He has been on the story since the 354 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: very very beginning. John Paul Vranessovitch, thank you so much 355 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: for being with us. It's hard to say, let's start 356 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: at the beginning in a story like this, but let's 357 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: start at the beginning. Then we'll circle back to why 358 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: are all the cops getting fired over this? Start at 359 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: the beginning, John Paul. The beginning of the story when 360 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: I covered it, um was late last year in October, 361 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: when I received a anonymous email that contained a leak 362 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: from the al equipped the Police Department of sensitive law 363 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: enforcement database information related to Rachel Deltondo. It was information 364 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: for a while we KI in Pennsylvania call our Janet system, 365 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: which is a justice net system that keeps information about individuals. 366 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: Uh information such as your driver's license to data that 367 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: sort of data. It got leaked from the department. Okay, 368 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: hold on just a moment, guys again with me. The 369 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: man who originally broke the story, John Paul von Chevitz 370 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: with the Beaver County and dot Com. John Paul, I 371 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: recall in the District Attorney's office and when I was 372 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: a FED, we had access to all sorts of private information. 373 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: And I never really thought twice about it, John Paul, 374 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: I mean I never thought about, Wow, I could copy 375 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: this and leak it to somebody. I would just you know, 376 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: for instance, a bond hearing, Alright, I had a bond 377 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: hearing in the afternoon. I'd race back and run an 378 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: n C, I C into g C. I see in 379 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: other words, UH federal report and a state report on 380 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: whoever was trying to get a bond uh printed off 381 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: and run out of the office over to the courthouse. 382 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: I never realized, or even considered at my fingertips, was 383 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: the ability to destroy people's lives. But that's what happened here. 384 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: And I wasn't thinking, oh, this is a secure computer. 385 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: Nobody can get this unless they've had a fingerprint and 386 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: a lie detector and blah blah blah. But that's exactly 387 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: what you're talking about, John Paul. Yeah. Along with that 388 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: sense of information, Also included in the leak that I 389 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: received was a copy of a police report related to 390 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: an incident back in February in which Rachel Deltondo was 391 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: discovered by Aliquippa police with a seventeen year old student 392 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: at about two o'clock in the morning in a parked car. 393 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: Uh in a parking lot. Hold on, John Paul, I'm sorry, 394 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: but you know every sentence you you you utter is 395 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: like a trip wire. It's like a bomb blowing up. Guys, 396 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,719 Speaker 1: did you hear what John Paul just said? Karen Stark 397 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: joining me renown New York psychologists. You know, he he 398 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: just trips off his tongue, you know, But did you 399 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: hear what he said before her engagement was broken? She's 400 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: caught by cops in a car. There's nothing wrong with 401 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: sitting in a are But as I always say, Karen, 402 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: nothing good happens after midnight two am in a car 403 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: parked in a parking lot with a teen boy in 404 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: the car. The cars turned off and the windows are 405 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: all steamed up. That's not a good look here in start, 406 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: and then her engagement is broken off. But it's not 407 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: just that it's a bad look, Nancy. Here's somebody who 408 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: is in a position of authority and she's with a 409 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: seventeen year old in a parked car, a boy, and 410 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: she's taking advantage of this particular child. If this allegation 411 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: is true, hold on, hold on just a moment, hold 412 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: your horses, and Ellie Crime Online dot Com reporter Ellen 413 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: Kilaurin Ellen Street name e k Ellen. There was never 414 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: any well not a suggestion. Everybody suggested it, but there's 415 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: never any proof that she had any type of indecent relation. 416 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: Let me just put it that way, since you know 417 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: on serious X and I don't know if my twins 418 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: might turn it on. There was never any proof that 419 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: any relations are going on in the car, Isn't that true? 420 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: That's correct. She and the boy were both questioned. They 421 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: both said that they were just talking, that there was 422 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: nothing going on, and they were both released. Um I 423 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: have heard and perhaps John can seak to this as well, 424 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: that she had begged, even though she said there was 425 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: nothing going on, she had begged no want to talk 426 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: about it because she didn't want her fiance to find 427 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: out at the time. But she was never charged with 428 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,959 Speaker 1: any wrong joint Is that true? John paul I had 429 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: talked to Rachel d'altona before her death and she had denied. 430 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: She had denied saying that. But reporter is is correct 431 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: that that that stment is in a in the police 432 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: report from Alquippa Police. But there's where we get another 433 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: interesting turn. Although this incident happened in February of the 434 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: police released both individuals, no one was charged at the time. 435 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: They didn't enter a pour into their system until a 436 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: year later, sometime or April and May of is when 437 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: the the Autquippa Police for some reason decided to write 438 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: an incident report in their system. About that night from 439 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: a year prior. I didn't know that. John Paul Vanisovitch 440 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: with me from the Beaver County and dot Com. John 441 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: Paul Vanessovitch, that is a very odd John Paul, regarding 442 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: police procedure. Now, that's the first time I've learned that 443 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: that particular fact that they find her in the car. 444 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: And I'm looking at her photo right now, and everybody 445 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: on the program right now, Vincent Hill, Karen Stark, Ellen Kilauren, 446 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: John Paul Vanessovitch, you know the photo. It's her with 447 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: her hands on her hips. She looks like she's at 448 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: a hotel. I think I see luggage in the background 449 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: and the staircapt beautiful staircase. She's got on a gorgeous 450 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: sequined mini dress. She's beautiful, big smile on her face. 451 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: Obviously at some event. I didn't know John Paul that 452 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: one year after this young teacher is caught in the 453 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: car with a teen boy, that's when they file the report. Because, 454 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: you know, John Paul, that's contrary to police procedure. So 455 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: many times I would try to find cops that I 456 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: had subpoena on various cases, and it would be six 457 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, John Paul, when I was trying 458 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: to get everybody assembled at the courthouse for trial that day, 459 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: they would still be at h Q filling out reports 460 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: from the night before. Exhausted, they would come in bleary 461 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: eyed and tired to testify in my trial and then 462 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: go home and sleep. So they would stay John Paul 463 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: and fill out those reports because that was their job. 464 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: But here they waited a year. Here's my question. How 465 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: soon after this report was filed on this secretly encrypted 466 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: computer Janette, was it leaked? So the report was created 467 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: in April or May of seventeen about the incident from February, 468 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: and then it was leaked to me UH, several other 469 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: media outlets, and her employer, the school where she worked, 470 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: in October of last year. October, so about five months 471 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: after they created the report. The leak that I received 472 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: from the individual alleged that it was a cover up, UH, 473 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: and that the police had not followed proper procedures, as 474 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: you noted, and that was the purported reason why this 475 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: individual was leaking the information publicly. Shortly after the leak occurred, 476 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: she was suspended from her teaching position pending an investigation 477 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: about that incident. That occurred at that point a year 478 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: and a half earlier. Uh. And she was still on 479 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: suspension from her position when she was murdered. So they 480 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: went a year to follow the report, which I did 481 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: not know, which is highly highly usual. Then a few 482 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: months after it's finally reported, it gets leaked, and John 483 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: Paul Vanessavi is just telling us the cover up is 484 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: the cover up that was exposed by leaking the report 485 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: that they hadn't filed the report. Is that the big 486 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: cover up? What were they covering up and for who? 487 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: What the alleged cover up was in the in the 488 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: leak was that because of uh Rachel Deltando's relationships with 489 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: with certain individuals in the city, uh and their relationships 490 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: with the police department, as well as relationships that the 491 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: boy that she was caught in a car with had 492 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: with with individuals in the town, that the police basically 493 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: just washed their hands of the incident and didn't follow 494 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: proper procedure. Uh. And that was that was the gist 495 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: of the pretext for the leak. What relationships you got me? 496 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: You left me hanging? Jehan Paul? What relationships were so 497 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: important they didn't file a report? The information I have 498 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: is that the young man who was found in the 499 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: vehicle with Rachel del Tondo is related to the mayor 500 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: of the town and Rachel Deltondo's fiance who was mentioned 501 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: in the police report as Frank who is Frank KaTropa 502 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: x fiance now Frank KaTropa is a well known businessman 503 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: from the town and had been a significant donor to 504 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: the police department. He had helped to acquire a SUV 505 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: for them to use with their drug canine dog, among 506 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: other things. John Paul Ranessovich, I'm just letting this soak in. Alan, 507 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: are you there? Did you hear that? What he just 508 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: told us this is this is a twisted, bizarre case. 509 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: That's a bombshell. I kept wondering, why all the drama 510 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: when they weren't even doing anything wrong that we can 511 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: tell as a matter of fact, she wasn't apparently involved 512 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: with somebody else related to this young boy. But they 513 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: weren't even doing anything wrong. That's why I didn't understand 514 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: the big drama about it. This teacher caught in the 515 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: car two am with a teen boy. Okay, it looks bad, 516 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: but apparently nothing untoward occurred in there. So why the 517 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: drama and John Paul Vanesovich with the Beaver Cantonian just 518 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: dropped a bom. Mommy, she is related. I mean she's 519 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: engaged to a super rich guy who has donated a 520 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: lot to the police department, and the teen boy is 521 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,760 Speaker 1: a relative of the mayor. Well, the plot is thickening. 522 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: I know you all hated Vincent Hill Private Investigator when 523 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: I start quoting Shakespeare, but here it comes. Oh, what 524 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. 525 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 1: It's all blown up in everybody's faces. Vincent Hill Private Investigator, 526 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: how many times have you seen cases? To start and 527 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: he's just no more than a hill of beans. But 528 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: by the end to cover up, everything blows up and 529 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: there are a lot of casualties. Yeah, Nancy, something in 530 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: the milk here is not clean. What I can tell 531 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: you is I doubt this was a random act. I mean, 532 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: we're looking at a town with one murder average per year, 533 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: eight robberies per year, so you're not looking at a 534 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: high crime ary ten thousand people in that small town. 535 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: So this is someone that had a very particular vendetta 536 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: against her, especially the way she was shot, how many 537 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: times she was shot, And now that we hear that 538 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: the kids who was in the car with is related 539 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: to the mayor. The boyfriend had a lot of money. 540 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: There's something going on here. Nancy won this all. A 541 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: lot of people feel like I have landed in a 542 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 1: basket of snakes. Listen to this having a beating right 543 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: now with all the detectives that are working on the case. 544 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: As you know, this is an ongoing homicide investigation. We 545 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: have an active group with a Petsimania State Police to 546 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: be the kind of detective bureau and the Aliquippa Police 547 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: Department working very hard together. It's very sad. You have 548 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 1: a very quiet and very quaint neighborhood where this tragedy happened. 549 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: We obviously regret this aparative simplise for the families. The 550 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 1: Alquippa name gets thrown out there a lot, and it 551 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: should not. This was a very nice, quiet neighborhood and 552 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: to have this in made any family is sad. We're 553 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: working hard to solve this problem together. The police department 554 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: of ever kind of worked very well together. We'll let's 555 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: notice since we have one crime stories with Nancy Grace 556 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 1: on Serious X seven Triumph one two. 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Truth Finder helps Americans reunite with friends, family, 625 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: even people who served with them in the military. It's 626 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,800 Speaker 1: never been so easy to find the truth. Go to 627 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: truth finder dot com, slash Nancy and enter any name 628 00:40:51,320 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: to get started. I Nancy Grace and you you are 629 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: listening to the Triumph channel, Sirius XM one two. Well, 630 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 1: the plot is thickening in the murder of a gorgeous 631 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: young school teacher, Rachel Deltanda. Well, I thought the scenario 632 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,399 Speaker 1: had calmed down and assumed that investigations were being done 633 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: and we would soon have the answer that is anything 634 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: but the truth. As a matter of fact, in the 635 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: last hours, police personnel are dropping like flies within the 636 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: police department there in now Equippa, where Rachel was murdered. 637 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: Why with me Vincent Hill, private investigator, Karen Stark, renowned 638 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:45,800 Speaker 1: New York psychologist, crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Ellen Killorin, 639 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 1: and superstar editor and reporter with the Beaver County and 640 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:55,399 Speaker 1: dot Com who initially broke the story, John Paul Vanesseevich, 641 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: and boy, have I've been wanting to talk to you now? 642 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 1: We are earning of an intricate series of connections between 643 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: the teacher, the police department, the teen boy in her 644 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: car at two a m. And the mayor. No one 645 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: is a suspect. Everyone is a suspect. No one is 646 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 1: named a person of interest or a formal suspect. Now, 647 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: let's just put that out there, John Paul Vanessevitch. So 648 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: they wait a year to file the report, it gets filed. 649 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: A couple of months later, someone with access to government 650 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: protected janet leaks it. To whom is it leaked? At 651 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,919 Speaker 1: this point we do not know what the Aliquippa Police well, 652 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:47,320 Speaker 1: the former Aliquippa Police Chief Don Couch had said was 653 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: the the league of the information. He dubbed that a 654 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: quote unquote clerical error. He refused to disclose who he 655 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: who was provided to, but who said that that was 656 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,959 Speaker 1: the former police chief Donald Couch. A clerical error. Wow, 657 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,840 Speaker 1: what a coinkie think? A coincidence? A clerical error, and 658 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: it just happened to be leaked to the media, and 659 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: to what the fiance, the rich fiance. We do not 660 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: have confirmation that it was that it was leaked to 661 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: him at this point. Thank you for correcting me. Go ahead. 662 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: After the report came out that this information did leaked, 663 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: the Pennsylvania State Police announced that they were launching a 664 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: criminal investigation into the El Equippa Police Department as a 665 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: result of this leak. Uh. That investigation, as last I've heard, 666 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,600 Speaker 1: remains open. In March of this year, the Pennsylvania State 667 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,359 Speaker 1: Police executed a search warrant on the El Equippa City 668 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: building as part of a grand jury investigation into the 669 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 1: city and its police department. And that was according to 670 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 1: State Police Lieutenant Eric Hermit at the time. Wow, it 671 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: did just It's like um Medusa. There are so many 672 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 1: snakes coming out of this, It's like a multi tentacled 673 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: sea creature. Uh, it's gonna be hard to know in 674 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,800 Speaker 1: which direction to go. As a matter of fact, the 675 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,800 Speaker 1: fact that there are so many potential suspects with motive 676 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: to kill the young teacher on Mother's Day, shooting her 677 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,799 Speaker 1: dead in a targeted attack after she comes home from 678 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,759 Speaker 1: an ice cream parlor with friends that Sunday evening Mother's Days. 679 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: A matter of fact, it could be anybody. Listen, We're 680 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: getting video cameras, we we we are downloading information, we 681 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,359 Speaker 1: are interviewing witnesses. We are doing everything we can investigating 682 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: everyone that was driving around al Equippa that night, that 683 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: was anywhere near this young ladies house John Paul that 684 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: evening that night that to a m incident that started 685 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:53,560 Speaker 1: the whole Domino effect. No charges were ever leveled against 686 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: Rachel del Tondo or the boy, of course, but after 687 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: the report was leaked, the fiance breaks up with her. 688 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,800 Speaker 1: Um she stuck with his wedding dress, and they go 689 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 1: on TV for a little um let me say, consumer 690 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: help segment to try to get some of the money back. Listen. 691 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 1: Deltondo says she told the local bridal salon she'd pay 692 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: the balance and take delivery of the dress. I wanted 693 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: the gown so I could sell it. Del Tondo says 694 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 1: the salon never delivered the dress and refused to refund 695 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 1: her money, so she took the owner to Small Claims 696 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: Court and it says disposition default judgment for plain of court. 697 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: Papers indicate the salon owner did not appear for the hearing. 698 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: As a result, he was ordered to pay the del 699 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,720 Speaker 1: Tondo's more than forty six hundred dollars. He had thirty 700 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,800 Speaker 1: days to write us a check or file on a 701 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: pill and he did not. Salon owner Gregory Jericho in 702 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,800 Speaker 1: an email he told me, December got by me with 703 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 1: two deaths in the family. We will be sending a 704 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: certain fight check out to del Tondo. Thanks for your efforts. 705 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: His attorney sent us a letter stating Mr. Jericho denies 706 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,800 Speaker 1: that Ann Gregory owed any money to Miss del Tondo, 707 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 1: as she was given the purchase contract, had an opportunity 708 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 1: to review the terms of the contract, which unambiguously advised 709 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 1: her that the custom order for her bridal gown could 710 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,080 Speaker 1: not be refunded. So after this TV appearance, the whole 711 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 1: town and more the whole region knows about the broken engagement, 712 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 1: the ten thousand dollar wedding dress, and what Rachel Deltonda 713 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:41,240 Speaker 1: looks like. Then she's gunned down on Mother's Day Sunday 714 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:46,120 Speaker 1: evening in her parents front yard. I have reason to believe, 715 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: John Paul, that she was targeted, that someone was waiting 716 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: for her to appear. They knew she was coming back 717 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 1: in a vehicle. She had barely gotten out of the 718 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 1: vehicle when she was gunned down multiple gunshot wounds. Still 719 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,160 Speaker 1: wanting to find out if they were a close range 720 00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:09,359 Speaker 1: or not. What do we know about her murder specifically, 721 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: John Paul? I know you have the very latest on 722 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,359 Speaker 1: the cops being fired and put on leave and under investigation, 723 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 1: but I'm still hung up on her murder. Do we 724 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 1: know if any of the shots are close range? What 725 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,880 Speaker 1: do we know about her autopsy? Yeah, there's been no 726 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,279 Speaker 1: autopsy information released other than the corner confirming that this 727 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: was a homicide. She was shot multiple times upwards a 728 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 1: pen uh, and I am told from my law enforcement 729 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: sources that it was at close range UH and that 730 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,400 Speaker 1: her she had positioned herself in what is being described 731 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,240 Speaker 1: to me by law enforcement in a defensive posture prior 732 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: to being shot. Did you say it was or was 733 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,160 Speaker 1: not a close range It was Vincent Hill. You know, 734 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,720 Speaker 1: you and I had speculated about that when it first happened, 735 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,840 Speaker 1: that we thought either it had to be like a 736 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: sniper hit somewhere in the bushes or a close range. 737 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 1: This is not like um a robbery because nothing was missing. 738 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,640 Speaker 1: It was not a sex attack clearly, and now Jehan 739 00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,440 Speaker 1: Paul is stating that she was in a defensive posture. 740 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,319 Speaker 1: That could mean that there were bullet wounds on her 741 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 1: arms or hands as she held her hands up to 742 00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:26,879 Speaker 1: her face. At some point, very often victims go down 743 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 1: on the ground, they curl up in a ball, like 744 00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,480 Speaker 1: a fetal position. What does it say to you, you're 745 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,440 Speaker 1: the former cop now private investigator. Well, Nancy quite clearly 746 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: tells me she saw it coming. So likely the shooter 747 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 1: made sure Rachel knew she was there before these shots 748 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,880 Speaker 1: were fired, because if she was shot in the back first, 749 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,800 Speaker 1: she likely wouldn't be in a defensive position. So she 750 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,759 Speaker 1: saw who did this. She knew who did this right 751 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,319 Speaker 1: before she died too. John Paul Vanessovich with the Beaver 752 00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:01,200 Speaker 1: County and dot Com, you wrote that an internal memo 753 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,759 Speaker 1: was circulated or was originated with the Ala Cippa p 754 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,279 Speaker 1: D showing the department had been very critical of a 755 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 1: Sergeant Watkins behavior the night of Rachel's murder. What does 756 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,279 Speaker 1: that mean? So one of the last people to see uh, 757 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 1: Rachel Deltondo alive was one of her friends who was 758 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: driving the vehicle that dropped her off back at home 759 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 1: that night. Who is a minor so I've not named her, 760 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 1: but she is the daughter of Sergeant Kenneth Watkins. So 761 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:35,920 Speaker 1: so one of the last people see Rachel alive as 762 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:40,399 Speaker 1: the daughter. Okay, wait wait wait wait wait okay, John 763 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: Paul Vanesovitch, it gets even more knotted up. So that night, 764 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 1: the dead teacher is having ice cream with the police 765 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,760 Speaker 1: chief's daughter, the sergeant's daughter. Sergeant, thank you, thank you. Okay, 766 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,160 Speaker 1: go ahead. This is Sergeant Kenneth Watkins daughter that drops 767 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 1: her off before the shooting. After the shooting occurred and 768 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 1: police arrived, Sergeant Watkins UH was off duty that night. 769 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,239 Speaker 1: He shows up to the crime scene after it's been 770 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,920 Speaker 1: taped off, along with his minor daughter. He brings her 771 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,520 Speaker 1: and they show up to the crime scene and he's 772 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:21,320 Speaker 1: off duty and he according to UH documents I've obtained 773 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,960 Speaker 1: drafted by a police captain Sea Walk, he then dives 774 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 1: underneath the police tape and and um potentially compromises the 775 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:37,359 Speaker 1: crime scene with his daughter. Okay, Now, the memo said 776 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,560 Speaker 1: something to the effect, I've showed no respect for the 777 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,799 Speaker 1: crime scene. What does that mean? According to the memo, 778 00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,880 Speaker 1: he was on more than one occasion ordered by on 779 00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,680 Speaker 1: duty officers not going underneath the police tape into the 780 00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,160 Speaker 1: crime scene area, and that he on more than one 781 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:58,400 Speaker 1: occasion um went ahead and went underneath the crime scene 782 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:03,120 Speaker 1: tape into the crime scene. UM. And in the language 783 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,719 Speaker 1: used by the Captain Seawalk at the time, is he 784 00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:10,879 Speaker 1: could have contaminated the crime scene. Quote unquote. Okay, tell 785 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:16,040 Speaker 1: me what's happening now, John Paul, because we understand that 786 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:22,000 Speaker 1: police have been suspended, that they're under investigation. What's happening? 787 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:26,200 Speaker 1: Why are so many cops dropping like flies within the department? 788 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,680 Speaker 1: All right, here's what I can tell you. Um, we 789 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,760 Speaker 1: know that Sergeant Kenneth Watkins was placed on paid administrative 790 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:38,080 Speaker 1: leave because of his daughter's involvement as a witness in 791 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 1: the case. Is the official reason why. Internal memos showed 792 00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,000 Speaker 1: that the then police chief wanted to take or wants 793 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,480 Speaker 1: to take disciplinary action for him disobeying on du the 794 00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:51,400 Speaker 1: officers and crossing the crime scene tape. After that incident, 795 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,080 Speaker 1: and this is now taking us to next Last Wednesday, 796 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,560 Speaker 1: the police chief at a council meeting Chief Donald Touch 797 00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:03,279 Speaker 1: council voted unanimously to put him on a paid administrative suspension. 798 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 1: There is conflicting information on the reason for that. The 799 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:11,520 Speaker 1: town's solicitor, Myron Sandwich says it is because of complaints 800 00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,400 Speaker 1: from his fellow officers and it is a personnel issue. 801 00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 1: A councilman, Matthew Modus from the town has said that 802 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,600 Speaker 1: he has firsthand information that the police chief is the 803 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,719 Speaker 1: subject of a state police investigation and that is the 804 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,960 Speaker 1: rationale that he has publicly provided for his vote to 805 00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:33,239 Speaker 1: suspend the chief. Council then appointed an investigation. Though under 806 00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,960 Speaker 1: investigation for what. Because of all this um it appears 807 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,560 Speaker 1: to be unrelated to the del Tondo matter. It appears 808 00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,840 Speaker 1: to be part of a larger investigation into public corruption 809 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:49,880 Speaker 1: in the town UH. After his suspension UH, the council 810 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:57,799 Speaker 1: appoints then assistant Chief Percevell to become acting chief. Less 811 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,719 Speaker 1: than forty eight hours after he is named acting chief, 812 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,880 Speaker 1: he is arrested by the Beaver County Detectives and is 813 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:10,120 Speaker 1: charged with distributing sexually explicit materials to a miner, and 814 00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:15,360 Speaker 1: that miner was the daughter of Sergeant Kenneth Watkins, the 815 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,360 Speaker 1: same girl who had dropped off Rachel felt, Oh my stars, 816 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,880 Speaker 1: I need I need a flow chart for all of this. 817 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,239 Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, John Paul Vanesevitch from the 818 00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:31,120 Speaker 1: Beaver County and dot com reports state that Deltondo had 819 00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:36,880 Speaker 1: told someone had stated that she was going to testify 820 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:41,520 Speaker 1: before a grand jury as part of an investigation into 821 00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:46,320 Speaker 1: the Aliquippo Police Department shortly before she was murdered. What 822 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,719 Speaker 1: do you know of that? So that report originated from 823 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,759 Speaker 1: the defense attorney of the teenager that she had been 824 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,640 Speaker 1: found in the car with my reporting contradicts that I 825 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,240 Speaker 1: do not believe, based on everything that that I've found, 826 00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,520 Speaker 1: that she was um at least in the near term, 827 00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,959 Speaker 1: going to testify before that grand jury. That being said, 828 00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,719 Speaker 1: I have reported publicly since her murder that she was 829 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,239 Speaker 1: a confidential source for my publication related to corruption in 830 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,920 Speaker 1: the town, and that she had been interviewed on multiple 831 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:23,480 Speaker 1: occasions by the Pennsylvania State Police UH and during those 832 00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,000 Speaker 1: interviews she did give statements related to alleged corruption in 833 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,680 Speaker 1: the town. Wait a minute, she had been a source 834 00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,920 Speaker 1: to you, a CEI confidential informant. She had been a 835 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:37,640 Speaker 1: confidential journalistic source for my investigative reporting into allegations of 836 00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:39,960 Speaker 1: corruption in the town prior to her murder. When you 837 00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:44,360 Speaker 1: say corruption, what do you mean? What the de siphoning money? What? 838 00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:49,080 Speaker 1: I at this point not publicly reported what the nature 839 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:53,319 Speaker 1: of her um discussions with me or the state police were. 840 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,200 Speaker 1: And I am doing that partially at the request of 841 00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,520 Speaker 1: law enforcement officials who tell me that those sorts of 842 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:04,200 Speaker 1: public discussions right now could uh in some ways hinder 843 00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,040 Speaker 1: ongoing investigations, So out of respect for that, I have 844 00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 1: not yet publicly begun my reporting on those matters. John 845 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,239 Speaker 1: Paul Vanesovich, please keep your head down. I'm telling you 846 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,680 Speaker 1: this is a lot bigger than any of us imagine 847 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:24,719 Speaker 1: at the beginning. And I agree with Rachel Deltago's mother, 848 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:30,960 Speaker 1: who has recently renewed her calls to take the Aliquippo 849 00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:35,320 Speaker 1: Police out of this investigation and bring in an outside 850 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:41,040 Speaker 1: agency to investigate the murder of her daughter. John Paul Vincent, 851 00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:45,560 Speaker 1: Karen Allen, thank you. The search for the truth and 852 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:51,560 Speaker 1: this girl's brutal murder goes on Nancy Grace Crime Stories, 853 00:55:52,120 --> 00:56:00,840 Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye, friend, Is I r debt affecting you? 854 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,040 Speaker 1: And your family. 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