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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey Eric, Welcome back.

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Speaker 1: To the Book of Joe podcast with me, Tom Verducci,

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Speaker 1: and of course Joe Madden. Joe, I know you are

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Speaker 1: a closet bibliophile. I know, back in the day, ravenous

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Speaker 1: appetite for reading books, going back to Pat Conroy, Kurt Vonnegut,

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Speaker 1: names Missioner, and Joe. I also know it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like eating your fruits and vegetables and getting more sleep, right,

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Speaker 1: we sometimes need to be prodded to do more of

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Speaker 1: book reading.

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Speaker 2: So where are you on your book reading quests.

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Speaker 3: I'm horrible. I'm absolutely horrible, and I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think I figured it out. There's just

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Speaker 3: so much other stuff to read constantly. I'm always reading.

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Speaker 3: I missed not reading novels, and I don't like me

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Speaker 3: for that. I'm not acquiescing to anything here.

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Speaker 4: I did.

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Speaker 3: I used to read at least the book every two weeks,

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Speaker 3: and that was started in nineteen seventy seven on a

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Speaker 3: bus Uncle Chuck Gamey a missioner's centennial and it just

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Speaker 3: kept going, I mean.

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Speaker 4: For years, and it was wonderful, and I.

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Speaker 3: Really believe I don't know, I believe a lot of

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Speaker 3: what I think and how I think was absolutely influenced

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Speaker 3: by all these different wonderful authors, different genres. I really

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Speaker 3: liked the historic fiction a lot. I did read some biographies,

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Speaker 3: obviously of Colin Pale's. Among my favorite favorite author of

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Speaker 3: all time for me is Pat Conroy.

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Speaker 4: I really like ken Fallt too.

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Speaker 3: I mean I could go on and on about this

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Speaker 3: Leon Yours with Exodus and the Hades. I mean, he

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Speaker 3: really opened my eyes. And Greg Aisles with his stuff

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Speaker 3: about World War Two. It was good stuff, man. But

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Speaker 3: I'm disappointed in myself. It's just the way the world

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Speaker 3: works today. Like I'll get up in the morning and

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Speaker 3: I look on videos. Right, I'm looking at MLV videos

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Speaker 3: from yesterday. I want to see what happened. And then

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Speaker 3: I go to YouTube just to catch up on news.

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Speaker 3: And I watched the news, and then I'll watch golf swings.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just they made it too easy. It's

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Speaker 3: like the new method of reading is watching a video,

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Speaker 3: and I'm not proud of it at all.

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Speaker 1: Well, I've got something to get you back. Let's call

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Speaker 1: it in reading shape. It's like getting back on the treadmill. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we've got here a special guest. She's Jane Levy, and

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Speaker 1: she wrote a book that's just out.

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Speaker 2: Make me Commissioner. I love the title here.

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Speaker 1: I Know What's wrong with baseball and how to fix it.

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Speaker 1: Jane has written, I mean, so many New York Times bestsellers.

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Speaker 1: He's written great biographies on Sandy Kofax, Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth,

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Speaker 1: and Mount Rushmore of baseball practically, and we are absolutely

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Speaker 1: thrilled to have Jane with us. Jane, congratulations on the book.

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Speaker 1: How you doing these Days?

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Speaker 5: It was a four year slought. You guys know what

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Speaker 5: this is like?

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Speaker 2: You written together.

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Speaker 5: I love your book together. Just started out. This is

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Speaker 5: not a book I wanted to write. I thought I

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Speaker 5: was going to find another guy to put up on

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Speaker 5: my Mount Rushmore. And when I sat down to look,

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Speaker 5: I have two rules. One never do a book that

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Speaker 5: a friend has done good better indifferent to do a

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Speaker 5: book or biography that you don't think you can improve.

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Speaker 5: So I started looking around to see what major league

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Speaker 5: figure was begging to have a life story told. And

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Speaker 5: the truth of the matter is in modern baseball. And

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Speaker 5: one thing I will change is to figure out how

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Speaker 5: to start making stars again. Babe Ruth would be rolling

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Speaker 5: over in his grave to know how few of the

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Speaker 5: current echelon of major leaguers rank in the top of

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Speaker 5: hits and clicks and money earned and outside income. There

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Speaker 5: just doesn't seem to be an urgency to reduce those

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Speaker 5: kinds of stars and to require them to do the

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Speaker 5: kinds of things that help you become a star.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting, Jane, I was wondering about where this book

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Speaker 1: came from the idea of it, and is the course

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Speaker 1: of reporting this book, what did you find where some

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Speaker 1: of the more unexpected revelations you mentioned the lack of

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Speaker 1: true star players, especially as compared to some of the

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Speaker 1: other major sports these days. What else really surprised you

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Speaker 1: in the course of reporting this out.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think the thing probably surprised and appalled, I

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Speaker 5: mean most was the well two things, the sheer numbers

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Speaker 5: of shredded arms major league and minor league arms, and

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Speaker 5: distinct deterioration of the Black American population of players in

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Speaker 5: the system, and how that was allowed to deteriorate from

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Speaker 5: an industry where they could brag every April fifteenth, It's

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Speaker 5: Jackie Robinson Day, and go from close to twenty percent

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Speaker 5: of all major leaguers being African American black or down

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Speaker 5: to six and they put money into it recently and

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Speaker 5: that some total improvement for last year was zero point

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Speaker 5: three percent.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I got something on your first part of that, Jane,

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Speaker 3: and Tom hears me banging on this all the time.

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Speaker 3: You're talking about the lack of legitimate stars and the

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Speaker 3: the fans being able to really hold on to and

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Speaker 3: somebody you really want to write about, And honestly, I

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Speaker 3: don't know. For me, it's about the last twenty years

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Speaker 3: is when the genesis of it and I was at

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Speaker 3: the beginning of it also, And I might probably culpable

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Speaker 3: a little bit, but I really believe analytically analytics kind

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Speaker 3: of prevents greatness. The way that the analytical world has

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Speaker 3: taken over. Everybody's become the same, everybody's after the same player,

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Speaker 3: everybody wants to develop the player the same way, and

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Speaker 3: a lot of the same This is a lack of

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Speaker 3: baseball grabitas experience guys that have done it before.

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Speaker 4: It's based on more.

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Speaker 3: You're talking about velocity, you're talking about shredded arms, you're

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Speaker 3: talking about home runs, hit the ball with the wall,

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Speaker 3: but strikeouts are okay and try to get a walk. Defense.

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Speaker 3: It's okay if we would like to play good defense,

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Speaker 3: but if we don't, it's fine, and they have to

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Speaker 3: actually change rules to put base running or base stealing

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Speaker 3: back in the game. So I just the phrase. I

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Speaker 3: use it to stay out of the way of greatness.

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Speaker 3: And I think, in my mind's eye, analytics is really

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Speaker 3: it kind of it does. It gets in a way

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Speaker 3: of people becoming great because there's a lot of restrictor

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Speaker 3: plays but on them, there's a lot of that. It's

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Speaker 3: just the fact that guys aren't just turned loose to

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Speaker 3: be themselves. They're always being influenced by data, numbers, technology,

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Speaker 3: which always lacks emotion and always lacks character. It's just

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Speaker 3: it's just very sterile and generic. So that's my part

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Speaker 3: about it. That's the part that I find interference. That

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Speaker 3: that's where inference is occurring. And I believe from my perspective,

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Speaker 3: if you want to get back to greatness and people

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Speaker 3: that are really attractive to watch and can become Hall

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Speaker 3: of Fame potential or people you want to write about,

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Speaker 3: I would let them be themselves a little bit more

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Speaker 3: in regards to developmentally, not just so much again, they

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Speaker 3: throw a pitch in a bullpen. Look at this on

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Speaker 3: the iPad. Hitters in the in the immediately look up

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Speaker 3: and see what their exovelocity was after they've lined out

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Speaker 3: all This kind of stuff, to me is superfluous and

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Speaker 3: it's not really a necessary as part of our game.

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Speaker 5: I spend a lot of time with a woman who

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Speaker 5: created the MIT Sports Analytics Lab. So she's not somebody

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Speaker 5: who hates analytics. She makes makes her living and she's

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Speaker 5: brilliant at her doing this stuff. Their name is Peco Hassai,

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Speaker 5: and she's in the weeds, but it's fascinating, she said.

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Speaker 5: The people who are creating these algorithms these days are

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Speaker 5: people who are very good at algorithms, but they don't

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Speaker 5: have what in that world is called domain knowledge, and

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Speaker 5: that means what's happening on a field and having seen

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Speaker 5: it before. And more scary than that is that they

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Speaker 5: don't feel you need to have domain knowledge in order

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Speaker 5: to create a metric that might be useful to not supplant,

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Speaker 5: but increase a manager's ability to manage. If you can

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Speaker 5: use them, you know, in conjunction with your eyes and

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Speaker 5: your ears and your wit and your wisdom, great so

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Speaker 5: be it. But that's not how they're used. And as

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Speaker 5: Joe and I have talked about this, you know, analytics

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Speaker 5: can tell you what's going to happen nine times out

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Speaker 5: of ten, and if you make those decisions always based

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Speaker 5: on nine times out of ten, then you miss the

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Speaker 5: one time where it's different, where the wind changes, or luck,

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Speaker 5: luck comes and descends upon your shoulders, or fate intervenes.

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Speaker 5: You're Roger Davis, you know, and you're you're not supposed

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Speaker 5: to hit that home run in twenty sixteen? Was he? Joe?

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Speaker 2: I mean, and of course not there he was, and

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Speaker 2: he did it.

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Speaker 5: And Joe Torre said, and you don't know he can

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Speaker 5: do it. He's the last guy you're going to send

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Speaker 5: up in any.

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Speaker 1: Other professional Well, what I love about this book, Jane,

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Speaker 1: what I love about any book.

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Speaker 2: Really, it's a good book.

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Speaker 1: It really makes you think, you know, it's it should

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Speaker 1: be to me an interactive experience, not just a passive experience.

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Speaker 1: And you've done that with this book. And I actually

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Speaker 1: think you mentioned the human element a lot. I think

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Speaker 1: that's a thread here in this book, and it actually

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Speaker 1: made me think about how we connect to one another,

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Speaker 1: not just to baseball right. I mean, we live in

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Speaker 1: a world now in which if you're a middle school

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Speaker 1: English teacher you have to figure out whether your students

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Speaker 1: are using AI to write their essay rather than doing

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Speaker 1: their own thinking.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's the world we live in.

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Speaker 1: And there is this pursuit of perfection in baseball when

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Speaker 1: you just eloquently stated the fact that we love sports

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Speaker 1: because of what's unexpected. So I think what you're doing

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Speaker 1: here is you're kind of getting the pulse of how

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Speaker 1: we are connecting to baseball as fans. And is that

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Speaker 1: something that going forward that Major League Baseball actually should

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Speaker 1: be worried about because a lot of baseball now is

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Speaker 1: attracting people based on, let's face it, gambling and the

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Speaker 1: fact that going to a baseball game is not so

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Speaker 1: much about the game as it is a social event

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Speaker 1: and the happenings that are going on with light shows

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Speaker 1: and music and what have you. So the long way

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Speaker 1: of asking you, Jane, about going forward here, is this

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Speaker 1: good or should baseball be concerned about how people are

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Speaker 1: connecting to the game in a very different way?

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Speaker 5: Well? Absolutely absolutely, Because most people these days go once

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Speaker 5: maybe twice a year. Somebody gets them tickets, somebody has

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Speaker 5: a suite whatever. It doesn't have to do with either

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Speaker 5: an allegiance to a team a player. What's happened is

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Speaker 5: when when analytics Joe says this so well, and when

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Speaker 5: analytics conspire against allowing for those possibilities, you preclude them

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Speaker 5: from happening. When is the next time you think we're

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Speaker 5: going to see a perfect game? And you know, Joe

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Speaker 5: brought up with me to the Snell example when Cash

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Speaker 5: took him out, and you know the World Series, and

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Speaker 5: what about when Clayton Kershaw was taken out when he

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Speaker 5: was two innings away, you know, six outs away from

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Speaker 5: a perfect game in his first appearance in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 5: I talked to Dave Roberts about it. I don't think

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Speaker 5: he can say how much he regrets it, but he

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Speaker 5: does regret it. If somebody is going to do the impossible,

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Speaker 5: it was gonna be Clayton Curshell on that day. And

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Speaker 5: wouldn't a headline that had said and Kershaw of the

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Speaker 5: greatest left I think it was October first, something like that,

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Speaker 5: and after coming off an arm injury, goes out in

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Speaker 5: Minnesota in his first outing and throws a perfect game.

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Speaker 5: If that was the story, rather than Clainton Krushell when

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Speaker 5: seven innings and was perfect and came out, because that

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Speaker 5: was the prudy, analytically prudey thing to do. That's the

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Speaker 5: reason to go to the ballpark.

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Speaker 1: Jane actually not just puts her finger on the pulse

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Speaker 1: of these things. She comes up with solutions and ideas.

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Speaker 1: For instance, you mentioned the perfect game. Jane, she's got

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Speaker 1: an idea. This is pretty good. And I know, Joe

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Speaker 1: you don't like giving managers rules to work with, but

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Speaker 1: sometimes we have to legislate things because you leave people

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Speaker 1: to their own devices in this game, and it may

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Speaker 1: never get back to where it should be. If a

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Speaker 1: manager takes a starting pitcher out with a perfect game

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Speaker 1: intact through seven innings, you lose your challenge for the

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Speaker 1: next ten days.

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Speaker 4: I saw that that's outsteading.

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Speaker 3: That'll make you think right now, That'll make the front

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Speaker 3: office think right there.

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm trying to do.

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Speaker 3: It's not even about making the manager thing, because all

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Speaker 3: these things, Jane are really they're being controlled from above.

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Speaker 3: And you know that Tommy knows that, I know that

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Speaker 3: everybody knows that it's not managers making decisions like this,

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Speaker 3: it's front offices. I've been through situations, and I classically

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Speaker 3: use the time with Jake Arietta in our big year

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Speaker 3: with the Cubbies where we're beating the Minnesota Twins.

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Speaker 4: Late in the game it ended up being ate nothing.

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Speaker 3: It had been a close game, all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: it say nothing and Jacobs cruising. And I had the

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Speaker 3: experience in the minor leagues of seeing young pitchers throw

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Speaker 3: complete game shutouts and how it changed the way they

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Speaker 3: thought about themselves and it altered their their trajectory moving forward.

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Speaker 4: So that was an experience for me.

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Speaker 3: So I let him go and he threw right aroun

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Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty pitches, complete games, shutout, and after

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Speaker 3: that he just zoomed. He just took off after that,

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Speaker 3: And I was kind of criticized by the front office

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Speaker 3: because I permitted that to happen, and then I gave

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Speaker 3: them the explanation I just gave you, and then you

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Speaker 3: just alluded to that earlier where the people that are

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Speaker 3: doing these things are making these calls really have no

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Speaker 3: experience in the field and have no thought or idea,

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Speaker 3: and there's nothing in the algorithms, nothing in the matrices

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Speaker 3: that covers the human element. What they feel, how they're there,

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Speaker 3: their heart, they're got their brain sores after being accomplished

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Speaker 3: in these moments, and how it's going to benefit you

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Speaker 3: down the road. All they think about is injury. They

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Speaker 3: don't think about the potential positive outcome. And that's the

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Speaker 3: part that frustrates me.

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Speaker 5: Didn't you tell me that you used to have a

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Speaker 5: preseason no hitter meeting. You'd be better to explain it

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Speaker 5: and where it came from than I. But I made

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Speaker 5: sure to put that in because I thought it was brilliant.

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Speaker 3: Well, actually THEO brought that to my attention and we did.

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Speaker 3: And that's from then on I started to do it.

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Speaker 3: And I give him credit for it because Steel has

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Speaker 3: even though he had never played whatever, but he has

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Speaker 3: a pretty good pulse on what's going on.

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Speaker 4: And so we had a meeting.

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Speaker 3: And the guys knew that if you have a potential

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Speaker 3: no hitter, if you have a no hitter going, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to stay out of the way.

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Speaker 4: Now, there's got to be I to some extent.

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Speaker 3: Maybe a limit, because I remember when Edwin Jackson did

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Speaker 3: it to us with the Raizy. He's almost one hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty pitch walk seven or eight guys at the

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Speaker 3: Tropic Canada field and still ended up with a no hitter,

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Speaker 3: and I think that kind of did bother him afterwards physically. However,

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Speaker 3: that's the anomaly. I think, Yes, you talk to the guys,

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Speaker 3: you know, okay, after that, the next start, you may

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Speaker 3: be pushed back a day, maybe pushed back two days.

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Speaker 3: But we're not going to get in the way of

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Speaker 3: this accomplishment for you, your resume, your family, your mom,

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Speaker 3: your dad, and your grandkids down the road. So these

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Speaker 3: are the things aren't even considered anymore. Although the lure

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Speaker 3: and all the allure that we had experienced growing up

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Speaker 3: looking at the back of a baseball card or waiting

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Speaker 3: till the next day to read the box score, that's

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Speaker 3: not considered important anymore.

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Speaker 4: And I disagree with that completely.

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Speaker 3: You're right, all these guys should be given these opportunities

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Speaker 3: to do this kind of thing. And that's why I

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Speaker 3: think it's vital to have these kind of meetings in

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Speaker 3: camp because it's actually it's independent if any analytical component,

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Speaker 3: which I think needs to be curbed quite frankly, that's

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Speaker 3: another subject, but that's what we did.

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Speaker 5: You have to have some situational dexterity, and that is

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Speaker 5: what is missing. Once the decision is made before the

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Speaker 5: game or manager is told a guy can only go

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Speaker 5: so many the unis or you can you can't use

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Speaker 5: them today, or whatever it is. You have to be

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Speaker 5: able to say, wait a minute, this is Clayton crucial,

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Speaker 5: this is the guy who's done everything else, or it's Ariata.

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Speaker 5: You know, how is this going to change his trajectory

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Speaker 5: as a pitcher and as a human being.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of choreography done before the game, as

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Speaker 3: you know, there's it's all about its choreographed, and the

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Speaker 3: dexterity is you.

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Speaker 4: Got to be You better be right.

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Speaker 3: If you're going to be incorporate dexterity at all, you

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Speaker 3: better be right because otherwise it's really going to not

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Speaker 3: work in your favor as the manager of The games

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Speaker 3: are so scripted today to me, you know, the large

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Speaker 3: sample size is the large sample size, and the small

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Speaker 3: sample size is your experience.

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Speaker 4: So all these these.

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Speaker 3: Menumbers that are compiled are compiled through the course of

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Speaker 3: over a year, maybe two years. Good, they're going to

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Speaker 3: repeat themselves often. But you know what, it's not often

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Speaker 3: that reality matches up with this thought. This this matrix

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Speaker 3: whatever reality and actual and what happens for sure before

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Speaker 3: the game, which you lay out as your plan does

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Speaker 3: not always meet reality. So you have to maintain dexterity

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Speaker 3: in the moment, and that is your experience. That's where

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Speaker 3: it's at, and that's where they don't want.

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Speaker 4: They don't want experience.

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Speaker 3: They want more controllable situations that they want to do

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Speaker 3: before the game, but not allowing for the fact that

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Speaker 3: when the game begins a lot of times that stuff

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Speaker 3: just gets blown up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're talking about those blink moments right right out,

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Speaker 1: when you respond to something in the moment. Absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: another one of your ideas I really like involved kids,

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Speaker 1: because even Major League Baseball's own research shows that if

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Speaker 1: you want a fan for life of the game of baseball,

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Speaker 1: you need to reach them in those magic years I

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Speaker 1: call magic years between say eight and twelve. And if

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Speaker 1: you get a young person out to the ballpark even

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Speaker 1: one game a year, that has a tremendous impact and

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Speaker 1: whether that person is going to be a lifelong fan

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Speaker 1: and then pass on that love of baseball to.

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Speaker 2: Their own kids. And you came up with a great idea.

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Speaker 1: Every night we look and listen the average attendants in

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Speaker 1: the big leagues is about twenty nine thousand and thirty thousand.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot more seats that do not get used.

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Speaker 1: Why not make sure that kids can get in free

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Speaker 1: as long as they're accompanied by an adult? I guess,

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Speaker 1: And you bring up an example where if you gave

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Speaker 1: a kid a free ticket, give them a hot dog

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Speaker 1: in a soda, ice cream, maybe a cap and Joe

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Speaker 1: Madden can speak to how important it is as a

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Speaker 1: kid to have had of your favorite team. And you

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Speaker 1: can bring up the example that Chicago Cubs had done that.

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Speaker 1: It would cost them four million dollars, which sounds like

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Speaker 1: a lot, but at the same time, they were paying

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Speaker 1: Jason Hayward twenty one million dollars not to play for

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Speaker 1: them to play for the Los Angeles Dodgers. Is this

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Speaker 1: really a doable thing for baseball and for individual teams

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Speaker 1: to do to give away these tickets to young people.

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Speaker 5: Give a kid tenant on a free ticket, Grandpa page,

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Speaker 5: Grandpa's going to spoil the kid. He's gonna tell them

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Speaker 5: the stories. He's going to take him by a hand

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Speaker 5: and make him a baseball fan for life. And that's

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Speaker 5: what they need more than anything else, Right, now good stuff.

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Speaker 2: Jane.

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Speaker 1: Hey, listen, there's a lot more I want to get

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Speaker 1: into about this book. There is so much is such

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Speaker 1: a rich book full of great ideas. Again, it really

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Speaker 1: makes you think whether you're a fan of the game

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Speaker 1: or maybe you're starting to turn off on the game,

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Speaker 1: there's many reasons to dive into this book. We will

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Speaker 1: continue our conversation with Jane leeby make Me Commissioner. I

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Speaker 1: know what's wrong with baseball and how to fix it.

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Speaker 1: We'll do that right after this quick break. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the Book of Joe podcast, joined by Jane Levy

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Speaker 1: In a great book, Make Me Commissioner. Jane, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: play Devil's advocate right here, because a lot of people

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Speaker 1: in Major League Baseball now I'm talking about in the

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Speaker 1: Commissioner's office look at some of the numbers here and

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Speaker 1: they say, hey, we don't need fixing, right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: let's face it, a lot of businesses these days judge

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Speaker 1: themselves by television ratings.

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Speaker 2: Last year, baseball was lucky enough.

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Speaker 1: To get sho Heyo Tani and Aaron Judge in the

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Speaker 1: World Series Yankees and Dodgers, and it was the highest

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Speaker 1: rated World Series since twenty seventeen. This year, Major League

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Speaker 1: Baseball on Fox is up ten percent. On ESPN, it's

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Speaker 1: up twenty two percent on TBS, it's up sixteen percent,

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Speaker 1: including sixty nine percent in the eighteenth to thirty four demographic.

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Speaker 1: The Major League Baseball Network Showcase games, which I do,

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Speaker 1: up thirteen percent, thirteen percent in the eighteenth to thirty

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Speaker 1: four demographics.

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Speaker 2: All double digit growth this year.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure whether everybody's cribbing off of last year's

400
00:19:44,958 --> 00:19:48,398
Speaker 1: World Series, whether this is completely the Otani effect, But

401
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Speaker 1: you tell me, how do you interpret the increased viewership

402
00:19:51,438 --> 00:19:55,038
Speaker 1: numbers for Major League Baseball this season compared to what

403
00:19:55,158 --> 00:19:56,518
Speaker 1: the trend has been in this game.

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00:19:56,638 --> 00:19:58,598
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, yet you need to know not

405
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Speaker 5: just the percentages, have to know how many people that

406
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Speaker 5: actually is. Like last year, they were touting the findings

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Speaker 5: of the annual Aspen State of Play game, which showed that,

408
00:20:09,118 --> 00:20:12,958
Speaker 5: oh wow, there were seventeen point nine million playing baseball,

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Speaker 5: and then when he went to the fine print, you

410
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Speaker 5: found out, well, yes there were, but of those seventeen

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Speaker 5: point nine million people, give or take nine million, were

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Speaker 5: people who played once between once and thirteen times a year.

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Speaker 5: In other words, you go to the company picnic and

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Speaker 5: you pick up a glove, are your hamstring and that

415
00:20:32,038 --> 00:20:36,478
Speaker 5: counts as playing baseball. Yes, I commend them for the increases.

416
00:20:36,798 --> 00:20:40,038
Speaker 5: That's great, but look at the fine print and what

417
00:20:40,078 --> 00:20:43,718
Speaker 5: it is. The same week that the Bananas were signed

418
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Speaker 5: by ESPN, major League Baseball lost. It's five hundred It's

419
00:20:48,358 --> 00:20:52,998
Speaker 5: five hundred million, right a year contract with ESPN. They

420
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Speaker 5: have a real problem with the television and we all

421
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Speaker 5: know it. It's hard to find the games. They've splintered

422
00:21:01,438 --> 00:21:04,678
Speaker 5: where the games appear so many different ways, a lot

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Speaker 5: of people can't find them. So, you know, make baseball

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Speaker 5: find a ball. Yes, split it up, take advantage of

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Speaker 5: streaming and game day and all that stuff, but consider

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Speaker 5: what it means to sit down and say I want

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Speaker 5: to find a game. I'm up here. I couldn't watch

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Speaker 5: the Red Sox and Yankees, and I'm in Cape Cod,

429
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Speaker 5: Massachusetts because of blackouts. I own every kind of package

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Speaker 5: except nessen, So because I didn't have nesson, I couldn't

431
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Speaker 5: watch the game.

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Speaker 4: I even tried.

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Speaker 5: Computer mirroring, couldn't do it. If you're a regular person

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Speaker 5: and I'm not very regular, you know, and you come

435
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Speaker 5: and you want to watch that game and you can't

436
00:21:44,198 --> 00:21:46,438
Speaker 5: you're going to be turned off for life. And they

437
00:21:46,478 --> 00:21:49,958
Speaker 5: have made some significant gains, Tom, There's no doubt about it,

438
00:21:50,238 --> 00:21:53,558
Speaker 5: and I applaud them for that. I just think, you know,

439
00:21:53,758 --> 00:21:58,158
Speaker 5: the long term TRUG dectory needs some pimping, as it were.

440
00:21:58,678 --> 00:21:59,758
Speaker 4: Tomy, let me ask you this.

441
00:21:59,798 --> 00:22:02,078
Speaker 3: I mean, do they have when they make these kind

442
00:22:02,118 --> 00:22:04,518
Speaker 3: of claims, because these stats could always be pipulated, just

443
00:22:04,558 --> 00:22:07,478
Speaker 3: like Jane suggesting, do they at least attach it to

444
00:22:07,958 --> 00:22:10,398
Speaker 3: why they think that's happening? What are the drivers in

445
00:22:10,438 --> 00:22:11,078
Speaker 3: this situation?

446
00:22:11,558 --> 00:22:11,838
Speaker 2: Yeah?

447
00:22:11,878 --> 00:22:14,078
Speaker 1: Well, I do think they've They've done a really good

448
00:22:14,158 --> 00:22:17,518
Speaker 1: job in terms of national games, having scheduled the big

449
00:22:17,638 --> 00:22:20,598
Speaker 1: rivalry games tend to be on weekends. Fox picks up

450
00:22:20,598 --> 00:22:23,238
Speaker 1: those games. A lot of this is driven by the

451
00:22:23,278 --> 00:22:26,518
Speaker 1: New York and Los Angeles markets. I mean, we're going

452
00:22:26,558 --> 00:22:29,558
Speaker 1: to talk next, Jane about the economic system, where let's

453
00:22:29,558 --> 00:22:30,358
Speaker 1: face it, it's.

454
00:22:30,238 --> 00:22:31,078
Speaker 2: Such a great system.

455
00:22:31,118 --> 00:22:32,918
Speaker 1: Put it this way that no other sport would want

456
00:22:32,918 --> 00:22:34,958
Speaker 1: to copy the economic system baseball has.

457
00:22:35,158 --> 00:22:37,118
Speaker 2: But it's very top heavy. At baseball.

458
00:22:37,318 --> 00:22:40,398
Speaker 1: You have these national draw teams and starting with the

459
00:22:40,478 --> 00:22:42,998
Speaker 1: Yankees and the Dodgers, but you just can't put any

460
00:22:42,998 --> 00:22:44,958
Speaker 1: baseball game out there, and I think they've done a

461
00:22:44,958 --> 00:22:47,158
Speaker 1: good job making sure they get these bigger games on

462
00:22:47,238 --> 00:22:48,758
Speaker 1: weekends in prime time.

463
00:22:49,358 --> 00:22:51,038
Speaker 2: And there's also the international element.

464
00:22:51,278 --> 00:22:51,758
Speaker 4: I mean, we.

465
00:22:51,878 --> 00:22:56,478
Speaker 1: Cannot underestimate the Otani effect on Major League Baseball. To

466
00:22:56,518 --> 00:22:59,918
Speaker 1: borrow from one of Jane's favorites, he is our babe, Ruth.

467
00:23:00,438 --> 00:23:02,198
Speaker 1: I mean last year, the first two games of the

468
00:23:02,238 --> 00:23:04,918
Speaker 1: World Series, the games were on at nine AM in Japan,

469
00:23:05,398 --> 00:23:08,478
Speaker 1: and more people watched the World Series those first two

470
00:23:08,478 --> 00:23:11,718
Speaker 1: games in Japan than here in prime time in the

471
00:23:11,798 --> 00:23:17,158
Speaker 1: United States. It's crazy. Netflix is getting into baseball. Yeat Netflix,

472
00:23:17,238 --> 00:23:21,598
Speaker 1: because they got the rights to the WBC Japan telecast

473
00:23:21,718 --> 00:23:24,078
Speaker 1: next year. They get so many people watching those games.

474
00:23:24,238 --> 00:23:27,238
Speaker 1: So I think the international element also is taking off here.

475
00:23:27,718 --> 00:23:30,518
Speaker 3: So you've mentioned everything, but you have not mentioned the

476
00:23:30,598 --> 00:23:32,398
Speaker 3: changes made to the game as being a driver to

477
00:23:32,438 --> 00:23:32,838
Speaker 3: any of this.

478
00:23:33,078 --> 00:23:35,278
Speaker 1: I mean, well it is, there's no question, and I

479
00:23:35,358 --> 00:23:37,478
Speaker 1: want Jane to speak to this because in the course

480
00:23:37,518 --> 00:23:40,158
Speaker 1: of you know, digging into all these topics here, Jane,

481
00:23:40,318 --> 00:23:42,878
Speaker 1: you saw the game change with the pitch timer. Major

482
00:23:42,918 --> 00:23:47,558
Speaker 1: League Baseball has taken out twenty six minutes of nothingness

483
00:23:47,678 --> 00:23:50,238
Speaker 1: out of their products. I mean, as I like to say,

484
00:23:50,238 --> 00:23:53,838
Speaker 1: that's better than Ozembic getting rid of the fat, because

485
00:23:53,878 --> 00:23:58,118
Speaker 1: the game went from three hours and six minutes to

486
00:23:58,238 --> 00:24:01,918
Speaker 1: two hours and forty minutes. And it wasn't like they

487
00:24:01,958 --> 00:24:03,638
Speaker 1: took out a lot of offense. It's the same amount

488
00:24:03,638 --> 00:24:07,118
Speaker 1: off In fact, hits are actually down slightly, but it's

489
00:24:07,118 --> 00:24:09,918
Speaker 1: happening a lot faster. The worst thing being said about

490
00:24:09,958 --> 00:24:12,438
Speaker 1: baseball was said for an entire generation, and that is

491
00:24:12,438 --> 00:24:13,718
Speaker 1: that it's too slow.

492
00:24:14,678 --> 00:24:17,758
Speaker 2: That narrative is gone, it's been removed.

493
00:24:17,798 --> 00:24:21,718
Speaker 1: The game does move more quickly, and I gotta believe Jane,

494
00:24:21,718 --> 00:24:24,598
Speaker 1: and you've talked to players, managers and fans about this.

495
00:24:25,078 --> 00:24:27,438
Speaker 1: That has to be a big driver in terms of

496
00:24:27,798 --> 00:24:28,838
Speaker 1: the game's popularity.

497
00:24:29,198 --> 00:24:31,878
Speaker 5: It was by far the best change they made. Other

498
00:24:31,958 --> 00:24:35,278
Speaker 5: than Joe might disagree with me about this, getting rid

499
00:24:35,318 --> 00:24:39,278
Speaker 5: of the shift absolutely was necessary. Should be done a

500
00:24:39,318 --> 00:24:42,518
Speaker 5: decade earlier. At least. You know, I had all these friends,

501
00:24:42,758 --> 00:24:46,038
Speaker 5: what you guys do too baseball? People said, well, nothing happens,

502
00:24:46,318 --> 00:24:48,638
Speaker 5: and it turned out finally they were right. It is

503
00:24:48,798 --> 00:24:53,598
Speaker 5: harder for baseball to make changes without people being outraged,

504
00:24:53,638 --> 00:24:55,838
Speaker 5: and without them sitting there saying, oh, we're doing pretty good.

505
00:24:55,878 --> 00:24:58,238
Speaker 5: We don't have to change anything, and so they didn't

506
00:24:58,678 --> 00:25:02,718
Speaker 5: for decades, and it was, to say the least belated.

507
00:25:02,918 --> 00:25:03,878
Speaker 2: I'm with you on this ship.

508
00:25:04,078 --> 00:25:06,518
Speaker 1: By the way, Jane, Joe, how you feel about it,

509
00:25:06,798 --> 00:25:08,118
Speaker 1: I think a much better game.

510
00:25:08,278 --> 00:25:11,158
Speaker 3: The shift's still there, it's not gone. I watch where

511
00:25:11,198 --> 00:25:14,878
Speaker 3: the shortstop plays. He plays one step on the but

512
00:25:14,918 --> 00:25:16,318
Speaker 3: he can still cover on the other side.

513
00:25:16,318 --> 00:25:16,518
Speaker 4: See.

514
00:25:16,558 --> 00:25:18,878
Speaker 3: I get that the shift's not there, but I don't

515
00:25:18,878 --> 00:25:21,438
Speaker 3: think it's as impactful. You just said hits are down

516
00:25:21,518 --> 00:25:23,918
Speaker 3: and offense is not generally up, so I don't think

517
00:25:23,918 --> 00:25:25,878
Speaker 3: it's as impactful as people think it is.

518
00:25:26,558 --> 00:25:27,518
Speaker 4: I do agree with Jane.

519
00:25:27,518 --> 00:25:30,678
Speaker 3: The clock is a superstar, absolutely is the superstar of

520
00:25:30,718 --> 00:25:33,518
Speaker 3: the changes, and I think that's that's what I was

521
00:25:33,598 --> 00:25:35,198
Speaker 3: driving up before when asked you if there's any other

522
00:25:35,518 --> 00:25:39,198
Speaker 3: driver's Tommy regarding the shift and people wanting to watch

523
00:25:39,358 --> 00:25:41,718
Speaker 3: the games quicker, I totally agree with that. I love

524
00:25:41,798 --> 00:25:44,878
Speaker 3: the PitchCom calling pitches a great idea. The parts and

525
00:25:45,038 --> 00:25:48,438
Speaker 3: Jane that I don't like is whenever they impact strategy,

526
00:25:48,238 --> 00:25:51,558
Speaker 3: they should not interfere with a batter, minimum run around

527
00:25:51,638 --> 00:25:54,318
Speaker 3: second base, throw overs the first base. As long as

528
00:25:54,398 --> 00:25:56,838
Speaker 3: you have the clock. Those things aren't necessary anymore. I

529
00:25:56,838 --> 00:25:59,678
Speaker 3: don't think so. I would love to see because what

530
00:25:59,758 --> 00:26:02,278
Speaker 3: happens is now with all these other changes in the

531
00:26:02,438 --> 00:26:05,478
Speaker 3: fact that really further ittigates the power of the manager.

532
00:26:06,038 --> 00:26:08,478
Speaker 3: The manager has to have even less experience based on

533
00:26:09,158 --> 00:26:11,038
Speaker 3: what he's able or not able to do during the

534
00:26:11,078 --> 00:26:13,918
Speaker 3: course of the game, where if you have some experience,

535
00:26:13,918 --> 00:26:15,838
Speaker 3: if you do know, if you could just see things

536
00:26:15,878 --> 00:26:18,518
Speaker 3: in advance a little bit further than these of these

537
00:26:18,598 --> 00:26:23,198
Speaker 3: changes mitigate that experience, whether it's a three better minimum,

538
00:26:23,278 --> 00:26:25,238
Speaker 3: you know, throwing over the first base which was in

539
00:26:25,278 --> 00:26:28,158
Speaker 3: a pitch out, stealing bases, starting runner at second base,

540
00:26:28,238 --> 00:26:30,038
Speaker 3: a lot of things are already control at that point.

541
00:26:30,358 --> 00:26:33,878
Speaker 3: So that's that really further creates more control for the

542
00:26:33,918 --> 00:26:35,878
Speaker 3: front offices and less in the dugout.

543
00:26:36,038 --> 00:26:40,598
Speaker 1: Jane, I'm wondering how you consume baseball has changed if

544
00:26:40,598 --> 00:26:41,238
Speaker 1: it has.

545
00:26:41,478 --> 00:26:42,718
Speaker 2: You mentioned me, and I.

546
00:26:42,638 --> 00:26:44,678
Speaker 1: Think a lot of people are frustrated by some of

547
00:26:44,678 --> 00:26:48,358
Speaker 1: the archaic blackout rules major League Baseball has, where sometimes

548
00:26:48,398 --> 00:26:50,998
Speaker 1: it's literally just hard to find a game that you want.

549
00:26:51,358 --> 00:26:54,238
Speaker 1: You know, it's like a restaurant closing its doors. If

550
00:26:54,278 --> 00:26:58,118
Speaker 1: you customers are looking for you, you're not looking for them.

551
00:26:58,478 --> 00:27:00,998
Speaker 1: How has it changed for you in terms of consuming baseball?

552
00:27:01,558 --> 00:27:03,638
Speaker 5: Well, I just pay through the nose for every package

553
00:27:03,678 --> 00:27:09,438
Speaker 5: you could. I love you, I spend the month. But

554
00:27:09,518 --> 00:27:11,838
Speaker 5: can I go back to the ghost runner thing? Because

555
00:27:12,518 --> 00:27:15,238
Speaker 5: I hate it. I mean, anybody who's watched Judge or

556
00:27:15,278 --> 00:27:18,478
Speaker 5: Stanton try to go small ball in the tenth inning

557
00:27:18,598 --> 00:27:21,598
Speaker 5: knows that it's a disaster where teams and players are

558
00:27:21,638 --> 00:27:24,598
Speaker 5: turning themselves inside out to not be who they are.

559
00:27:25,278 --> 00:27:29,118
Speaker 5: And what's more, it's not real baseball.

560
00:27:29,598 --> 00:27:31,518
Speaker 1: So, Jane, there's one thing we love to do with

561
00:27:31,598 --> 00:27:34,318
Speaker 1: the guests on our show, and that is to play

562
00:27:34,358 --> 00:27:38,278
Speaker 1: a game we call a reading from the Book of Joe.

563
00:27:38,998 --> 00:27:40,998
Speaker 1: We like to think that in our book, the Book

564
00:27:41,038 --> 00:27:43,798
Speaker 1: of Joe, it's three hundred and sixty five pages that

565
00:27:44,118 --> 00:27:47,038
Speaker 1: you'll basically find something interesting on any page. So we

566
00:27:47,238 --> 00:27:50,038
Speaker 1: let our guests pick a number between one and three

567
00:27:50,158 --> 00:27:53,598
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five and we'll go to that page

568
00:27:53,638 --> 00:27:56,798
Speaker 1: and see what we find. So the choice is yours.

569
00:27:56,838 --> 00:27:56,998
Speaker 2: Here.

570
00:27:57,078 --> 00:27:59,278
Speaker 1: You get to pick any number between one and three

571
00:27:59,358 --> 00:28:00,478
Speaker 1: sixty five and we'll.

572
00:28:00,358 --> 00:28:00,958
Speaker 2: See what we have.

573
00:28:01,518 --> 00:28:02,118
Speaker 5: Page one.

574
00:28:04,078 --> 00:28:04,958
Speaker 2: That's a first.

575
00:28:05,238 --> 00:28:07,278
Speaker 4: That's right, that is a first. It's number one.

576
00:28:07,318 --> 00:28:08,718
Speaker 5: You got to get your lead out there.

577
00:28:08,758 --> 00:28:12,398
Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, well, this is a good place to start,

578
00:28:12,438 --> 00:28:15,798
Speaker 1: because we love to talk about the struggle on this show.

579
00:28:15,918 --> 00:28:18,478
Speaker 1: I mean, a big part of your book, I believe

580
00:28:18,918 --> 00:28:22,238
Speaker 1: is not just the pursuit of perfection, but finding hacks

581
00:28:22,238 --> 00:28:24,638
Speaker 1: and shortcuts to try to get there in this world.

582
00:28:24,998 --> 00:28:27,918
Speaker 1: And we love to emphasize the struggle of what it takes.

583
00:28:27,918 --> 00:28:30,638
Speaker 1: Anybody's written a book understands that what that's about. So

584
00:28:30,678 --> 00:28:33,158
Speaker 1: I'll start at the top of page one. Quitting is

585
00:28:33,158 --> 00:28:35,598
Speaker 1: the easy way. Joe Madden heard it cyn Call. In

586
00:28:35,638 --> 00:28:38,758
Speaker 1: the spring of nineteen ninety one. After fifteen years of

587
00:28:38,798 --> 00:28:41,118
Speaker 1: service in the minor league system of the California Angels

588
00:28:41,158 --> 00:28:44,318
Speaker 1: as a player, a scout, manager, and instructor, Madden.

589
00:28:44,078 --> 00:28:45,398
Speaker 2: Was done with the organization.

590
00:28:45,878 --> 00:28:48,518
Speaker 1: If you have to list an official cause for the disillusionment,

591
00:28:48,998 --> 00:28:52,438
Speaker 1: it would have been easy to sum up in one word, disrespect.

592
00:28:52,758 --> 00:28:54,198
Speaker 2: This must bring back some memory.

593
00:28:54,198 --> 00:28:57,318
Speaker 1: You open up a scar here eighteen ninety one when

594
00:28:57,358 --> 00:29:01,278
Speaker 1: you went through some soul searching. I guess for you

595
00:29:01,398 --> 00:29:05,278
Speaker 1: who loves baseball, So explain Jane and our audience about

596
00:29:05,278 --> 00:29:05,718
Speaker 1: that moment.

597
00:29:05,838 --> 00:29:06,918
Speaker 4: I'm bleeding right now.

598
00:29:07,798 --> 00:29:11,598
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a situation where I was passed over

599
00:29:11,678 --> 00:29:14,958
Speaker 3: for a job, first base coaching job by the Angels.

600
00:29:15,078 --> 00:29:16,158
Speaker 4: Doug Grater was the manager.

601
00:29:16,238 --> 00:29:18,998
Speaker 3: Gave it to my buddy Jeter Hines, who I dearly

602
00:29:19,038 --> 00:29:22,478
Speaker 3: love and was great, was a great coach, great instructor. However,

603
00:29:22,958 --> 00:29:25,718
Speaker 3: I really had been in charge of pretty much all

604
00:29:25,758 --> 00:29:28,998
Speaker 3: the programs developed into minor leagues from nineteen eighty four

605
00:29:29,078 --> 00:29:33,478
Speaker 3: to that moment, hitting instructor, based, running instructor, catch instructor,

606
00:29:33,718 --> 00:29:36,558
Speaker 3: field coordinator, all this stuff, and had been a manager.

607
00:29:36,598 --> 00:29:39,198
Speaker 3: So I really thought it was my job at that point,

608
00:29:39,198 --> 00:29:41,198
Speaker 3: I should have had the job. And after all, at

609
00:29:41,198 --> 00:29:43,518
Speaker 3: that point it's different than it is today. You had

610
00:29:43,558 --> 00:29:45,038
Speaker 3: to earn your way to the big leagues. You had

611
00:29:45,078 --> 00:29:47,878
Speaker 3: to touch all the bases basically in order to be

612
00:29:47,918 --> 00:29:51,798
Speaker 3: deemed acceptable or ready to be a major league coach.

613
00:29:51,878 --> 00:29:55,558
Speaker 3: And so I got passed over, and that really does

614
00:29:55,638 --> 00:29:59,518
Speaker 3: the first time, I just wasn't the same person. After that,

615
00:29:59,598 --> 00:30:02,198
Speaker 3: I really thought I had been disrespected. I thought it

616
00:30:02,278 --> 00:30:04,198
Speaker 3: was wrong. I also learned at that point, if you're

617
00:30:04,198 --> 00:30:06,278
Speaker 3: waiting for fairness to exist, you're gonna wait a really

618
00:30:06,278 --> 00:30:08,758
Speaker 3: long time, because the word fair doesn't really it's really not.

619
00:30:08,998 --> 00:30:10,998
Speaker 4: It's a word, but it doesn't really mean anything anymore.

620
00:30:11,358 --> 00:30:12,278
Speaker 4: So all these.

621
00:30:12,118 --> 00:30:14,958
Speaker 3: Things came to my head at that point, and I

622
00:30:15,078 --> 00:30:17,798
Speaker 3: stopped being me for a while, a couple months actually,

623
00:30:18,638 --> 00:30:21,118
Speaker 3: until I get on an airplane and going to middle

624
00:30:21,158 --> 00:30:23,598
Speaker 3: of Texas. This lady sits next to me. We're just

625
00:30:23,638 --> 00:30:25,598
Speaker 3: having a conversation that I did not want to have

626
00:30:25,918 --> 00:30:29,598
Speaker 3: morning flight Phoenix to Midland, Texas, not in a good mood,

627
00:30:29,638 --> 00:30:32,958
Speaker 3: which is rare, and she blurted out the phrase, remember

628
00:30:33,038 --> 00:30:35,278
Speaker 3: one thing, whatever you put out there comes back to you.

629
00:30:35,478 --> 00:30:39,878
Speaker 3: And wow, that just kicked me right between the eyeballs.

630
00:30:39,918 --> 00:30:42,638
Speaker 3: And I got off the plane a different human. And

631
00:30:42,758 --> 00:30:45,198
Speaker 3: the point is going through all these different struggles, which

632
00:30:45,198 --> 00:30:47,798
Speaker 3: I really think is important, and nobody, I don't know

633
00:30:47,798 --> 00:30:51,518
Speaker 3: how many folks today really understand what that does for you.

634
00:30:51,718 --> 00:30:55,158
Speaker 3: So anyway, I went through all that, was really upset,

635
00:30:55,358 --> 00:30:57,758
Speaker 3: wanted to leave the angels, carrying it on through into

636
00:30:57,798 --> 00:31:00,518
Speaker 3: the season. The lady says that to me on an airplane. Seriously,

637
00:31:00,558 --> 00:31:02,158
Speaker 3: it kind of like changed my life from that point

638
00:31:02,198 --> 00:31:04,638
Speaker 3: till today. I mean, whenever I get word it out

639
00:31:04,678 --> 00:31:08,038
Speaker 3: by stuff I think about that, don't underestimate the struggle

640
00:31:08,758 --> 00:31:11,518
Speaker 3: and don't underestimate the power of the correct words in

641
00:31:11,558 --> 00:31:14,838
Speaker 3: the right moment that could really attitude is a decision,

642
00:31:14,878 --> 00:31:17,358
Speaker 3: and it did change my mindset from that moment on.

643
00:31:17,878 --> 00:31:19,998
Speaker 2: Whatever you put out there comes back to you. I

644
00:31:20,038 --> 00:31:20,678
Speaker 2: just love that.

645
00:31:21,078 --> 00:31:23,758
Speaker 1: And Jane, it makes me think, this is such a

646
00:31:23,918 --> 00:31:27,238
Speaker 1: far reaching book, with so many important elements to it.

647
00:31:27,638 --> 00:31:29,998
Speaker 2: How did you decide how to begin?

648
00:31:30,358 --> 00:31:33,358
Speaker 5: Well? I started the same day, believe it or not,

649
00:31:33,438 --> 00:31:36,078
Speaker 5: that THEO started to come up with his ideas for

650
00:31:36,158 --> 00:31:38,358
Speaker 5: how to fix the game. So I thought I was

651
00:31:38,398 --> 00:31:42,438
Speaker 5: writing one book during twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two,

652
00:31:42,478 --> 00:31:45,478
Speaker 5: it only feels like nineteen twenty one, and happy to

653
00:31:45,638 --> 00:31:49,278
Speaker 5: switch it and re report the book starting in twenty

654
00:31:49,318 --> 00:31:53,518
Speaker 5: twenty three to see how the rules had helped and

655
00:31:53,558 --> 00:31:57,558
Speaker 5: whether it was sufficient or whether more needed to be done.

656
00:31:57,798 --> 00:32:00,278
Speaker 5: And so I traveled all over the country at every

657
00:32:00,358 --> 00:32:03,078
Speaker 5: kind of different baseball I could find. And I had

658
00:32:03,078 --> 00:32:05,638
Speaker 5: the privilege of being old enough at this point to

659
00:32:05,678 --> 00:32:08,198
Speaker 5: just say I don't need to talk to people I

660
00:32:08,198 --> 00:32:10,158
Speaker 5: don't want to talk to. So I had the privilege

661
00:32:10,198 --> 00:32:12,878
Speaker 5: of talking to smart guys. I didn't want to talk

662
00:32:12,918 --> 00:32:16,638
Speaker 5: to all the people expected you know, characters. I wanted

663
00:32:16,678 --> 00:32:18,598
Speaker 5: to talk to people I liked and people I thought

664
00:32:18,638 --> 00:32:22,478
Speaker 5: would be honest. And to Joe's point, one of the

665
00:32:22,478 --> 00:32:24,478
Speaker 5: guys I spent a lot of time with was Dusty,

666
00:32:24,958 --> 00:32:28,598
Speaker 5: who maybe was the most human human in the game

667
00:32:28,678 --> 00:32:31,598
Speaker 5: at the time. And I asked him because I said,

668
00:32:31,638 --> 00:32:33,878
Speaker 5: I said, what is this thing about the human element?

669
00:32:34,238 --> 00:32:36,958
Speaker 5: Suddenly I hear every word the human element, the human element.

670
00:32:37,158 --> 00:32:39,758
Speaker 5: And I listed all the guys who had used that phrase.

671
00:32:40,198 --> 00:32:42,438
Speaker 5: I guess I'd pick it up. It's now, you know,

672
00:32:42,718 --> 00:32:46,198
Speaker 5: dugout shatter and I said, well, what is this and

673
00:32:46,518 --> 00:32:48,558
Speaker 5: he said the best I mean, this made be the

674
00:32:48,558 --> 00:32:52,278
Speaker 5: best quote in the entire book. He said, I said,

675
00:32:52,278 --> 00:32:56,838
Speaker 5: what happened to empiricism on the diamond? And first of all,

676
00:32:56,878 --> 00:32:59,158
Speaker 5: I was glad you do the word, But second of

677
00:32:59,198 --> 00:33:04,798
Speaker 5: all his quote was fabulous. He said, it means nothing, Jane.

678
00:33:04,998 --> 00:33:08,518
Speaker 5: It's unbelievable. They try to sell me some bs and

679
00:33:08,598 --> 00:33:11,318
Speaker 5: I'm saying, that ain't what my eyes are telling me.

680
00:33:11,838 --> 00:33:15,598
Speaker 5: And their next comment was, your eyes will lie to you.

681
00:33:16,038 --> 00:33:19,878
Speaker 5: And if you had to sum up what's wrong, that's

682
00:33:19,918 --> 00:33:24,678
Speaker 5: a pretty good summation. And the profound disrespect for wisdom

683
00:33:25,318 --> 00:33:30,158
Speaker 5: and experience isn't just in baseball, though, that's our topic.

684
00:33:30,638 --> 00:33:34,198
Speaker 5: It's throughout our society. Look at how many scientists have

685
00:33:34,238 --> 00:33:38,998
Speaker 5: been canned who've been studying cancer for decades. We don't

686
00:33:39,398 --> 00:33:44,598
Speaker 5: seem to remember that wisdom and experience matter, maybe more

687
00:33:44,638 --> 00:33:45,478
Speaker 5: than anything else.

688
00:33:45,678 --> 00:33:49,718
Speaker 1: Well said Jane, it's an important book. We congratulate you.

689
00:33:49,838 --> 00:33:53,398
Speaker 1: Wish you nothing but success with this book. It's make

690
00:33:53,478 --> 00:33:55,958
Speaker 1: me Commissioner. I Know what's wrong with baseball and how

691
00:33:55,958 --> 00:33:59,278
Speaker 1: to fix it? Published by Grand Central Publishing. It's out

692
00:33:59,318 --> 00:34:03,278
Speaker 1: September the ninth. And you may agree wholeheartedly with Jane.

693
00:34:03,398 --> 00:34:06,238
Speaker 1: You may agree with Jane, but one thing this book

694
00:34:06,278 --> 00:34:08,718
Speaker 1: will do is it will make you think.

695
00:34:08,918 --> 00:34:09,758
Speaker 2: And thank you for that.

696
00:34:09,918 --> 00:34:12,318
Speaker 4: Jane, Thank you, Thanks Jane. Great to see you and

697
00:34:12,358 --> 00:34:12,998
Speaker 4: hear you again.

698
00:34:13,238 --> 00:34:16,318
Speaker 2: That was Jane Leevy. We thank her for her time and.

699
00:34:16,398 --> 00:34:19,718
Speaker 1: Look forward to the publication of a really important baseball book.

700
00:34:19,998 --> 00:34:21,958
Speaker 2: Hey, we're not done yet here on the Book of Joe.

701
00:34:22,198 --> 00:34:22,798
Speaker 2: We get back.

702
00:34:22,838 --> 00:34:38,678
Speaker 1: We'll wrap things up right after this. Welcome back to

703
00:34:38,718 --> 00:34:41,318
Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcast Joe. It's an interesting book.

704
00:34:41,318 --> 00:34:41,998
Speaker 1: It's interesting.

705
00:34:42,078 --> 00:34:42,678
Speaker 2: How you know.

706
00:34:42,838 --> 00:34:45,718
Speaker 1: Jane started this years ago, as she explained, and a

707
00:34:45,758 --> 00:34:48,118
Speaker 1: lot has changed in the game since then, mostly the

708
00:34:48,158 --> 00:34:50,878
Speaker 1: pitch timer changing, the game. I happen to think the

709
00:34:50,958 --> 00:34:54,958
Speaker 1: game is on a really good trajectory right now. But

710
00:34:55,078 --> 00:34:58,478
Speaker 1: I do think her points about the human element of

711
00:34:58,558 --> 00:35:01,638
Speaker 1: the game still apply. And I think all of us

712
00:35:01,718 --> 00:35:03,758
Speaker 1: have to look at, you know, baseball sort of as

713
00:35:03,798 --> 00:35:06,398
Speaker 1: a proxy as to what's happening in our in our

714
00:35:06,798 --> 00:35:11,078
Speaker 1: culture anyway, in terms of the search for perfection, the

715
00:35:11,158 --> 00:35:16,438
Speaker 1: amount of faith we put in technology and in this case, analytics.

716
00:35:16,718 --> 00:35:18,838
Speaker 1: As I said, Joe, I think this book will make

717
00:35:18,878 --> 00:35:20,558
Speaker 1: you think. You may not agree with a lot of things,

718
00:35:20,598 --> 00:35:22,998
Speaker 1: but we really have to start doing some critical thinking

719
00:35:23,038 --> 00:35:24,078
Speaker 1: about some of these issues.

720
00:35:24,478 --> 00:35:27,238
Speaker 3: I'm most of everything she talked about, I think I'm

721
00:35:27,278 --> 00:35:31,878
Speaker 3: kind of in agreement with except the shift with you, Yeah,

722
00:35:31,918 --> 00:35:36,598
Speaker 3: there's the human elements being subtracted. Absolutely, we listen everything

723
00:35:36,598 --> 00:35:38,558
Speaker 3: we just talked about. Everything she's talking about, we've been

724
00:35:38,598 --> 00:35:42,118
Speaker 3: talking about on this show for months, years, almost a

725
00:35:42,158 --> 00:35:44,758
Speaker 3: couple of years right now. So I cannot agree with

726
00:35:44,798 --> 00:35:47,478
Speaker 3: her more. And when it comes down to perfection. And

727
00:35:47,558 --> 00:35:50,478
Speaker 3: actually one of her quilight quotes Tori on analytics, they're

728
00:35:50,478 --> 00:35:52,918
Speaker 3: trying to make an imperfect game perfect, and I.

729
00:35:52,918 --> 00:35:55,758
Speaker 4: Resent that, said Joe. That's the thing.

730
00:35:55,798 --> 00:35:57,838
Speaker 3: I mean, I do believe a lot of this for me,

731
00:35:57,918 --> 00:36:01,598
Speaker 3: The perfection part of it is analytics and gambling. Those

732
00:36:01,638 --> 00:36:04,798
Speaker 3: are the two elements that are driving the need for perfection.

733
00:36:05,038 --> 00:36:07,798
Speaker 3: And when you when you're talking about perfection, of course

734
00:36:08,118 --> 00:36:10,678
Speaker 3: you're not talking about reality or real human beings. Is

735
00:36:10,718 --> 00:36:13,918
Speaker 3: nobody's perfect. But I've always thought, of course you're you're

736
00:36:13,958 --> 00:36:15,318
Speaker 3: seeking perfection.

737
00:36:15,038 --> 00:36:15,798
Speaker 4: On a night lea base.

738
00:36:15,878 --> 00:36:18,158
Speaker 3: But I also believe if you were perfect at this game,

739
00:36:18,158 --> 00:36:19,238
Speaker 3: you wouldn't want to do it.

740
00:36:19,238 --> 00:36:22,278
Speaker 4: It would lose it's a lure. If you were that good.

741
00:36:22,118 --> 00:36:24,638
Speaker 3: Every night, there'd be nothing to really work for, a

742
00:36:24,718 --> 00:36:28,038
Speaker 3: strife for attempt to get better at because you're perfect.

743
00:36:28,078 --> 00:36:30,158
Speaker 3: And I don't even know if people understand that, but

744
00:36:30,198 --> 00:36:32,838
Speaker 3: I do believe gambling is driving this way too much.

745
00:36:33,478 --> 00:36:35,438
Speaker 3: I don't like it at all. You know, I'm even

746
00:36:35,478 --> 00:36:40,638
Speaker 3: seeing more recognizable guys and primarily men that are doing

747
00:36:40,638 --> 00:36:42,958
Speaker 3: these commercials and I don't like it. I just don't

748
00:36:43,078 --> 00:36:45,398
Speaker 3: like it, and I think it really sets the wrong

749
00:36:45,478 --> 00:36:49,598
Speaker 3: tone and as simple as that. But anyway, she's right

750
00:36:49,678 --> 00:36:52,758
Speaker 3: on with so many different things. Her breakdown, you know,

751
00:36:52,838 --> 00:36:54,878
Speaker 3: the we even got to the point of staying out

752
00:36:54,878 --> 00:36:57,558
Speaker 3: of the way greatness, and she can't even find the

753
00:36:57,598 --> 00:36:59,918
Speaker 3: next guy to write a book about, because she's concerned

754
00:36:59,958 --> 00:37:02,398
Speaker 3: it that person doesn't exist. And I think those people

755
00:37:02,438 --> 00:37:05,398
Speaker 3: that she's talking about how to individuality about them that

756
00:37:05,478 --> 00:37:07,678
Speaker 3: was nurtured just by people not getting in the way.

757
00:37:07,718 --> 00:37:09,478
Speaker 3: Like we're talking about seeing out the way greatness, whether

758
00:37:09,518 --> 00:37:11,878
Speaker 3: it's a unique batting stance, at the ability to throw

759
00:37:12,278 --> 00:37:15,478
Speaker 3: Loan Ryan throwing two hundred pitches in the game and

760
00:37:15,518 --> 00:37:17,438
Speaker 3: nobody there to say that you cannot go ahead and

761
00:37:17,478 --> 00:37:19,678
Speaker 3: finish your perfect game, Go ahead and finish your finish

762
00:37:19,718 --> 00:37:22,078
Speaker 3: your no hitter, go ahead and finish your shutout, all

763
00:37:22,078 --> 00:37:24,078
Speaker 3: these different things. Go ahead and hit the ball to

764
00:37:24,078 --> 00:37:25,358
Speaker 3: the right field, and they don't hit tread to hit

765
00:37:25,398 --> 00:37:26,758
Speaker 3: a home run even with two strikes.

766
00:37:27,158 --> 00:37:28,398
Speaker 4: All this stuff is being.

767
00:37:28,278 --> 00:37:31,318
Speaker 3: Driven by those that had never really done it, and

768
00:37:31,598 --> 00:37:36,358
Speaker 3: it's being driven by the baseball's version of artificial intelligence

769
00:37:36,398 --> 00:37:39,798
Speaker 3: telling us how to play the game, where the computer

770
00:37:39,958 --> 00:37:43,238
Speaker 3: the spreadsheet never really did. So there's so much here

771
00:37:43,278 --> 00:37:46,158
Speaker 3: to unpack. I agree with her in so many different ways,

772
00:37:46,278 --> 00:37:48,918
Speaker 3: and I'm actually looking forward this would be probably the

773
00:37:48,958 --> 00:37:49,998
Speaker 3: next book that I do read.

774
00:37:50,198 --> 00:37:50,358
Speaker 5: Well.

775
00:37:50,398 --> 00:37:52,478
Speaker 1: Joe, you brought up a really good point with the

776
00:37:52,638 --> 00:37:55,038
Speaker 1: betting and the gambling because I think in this case,

777
00:37:55,398 --> 00:37:58,518
Speaker 1: what's changed is our and I'm speaking for fans, our

778
00:37:58,558 --> 00:38:01,598
Speaker 1: relationship with baseball. Where you're seeing now and this has

779
00:38:01,598 --> 00:38:04,878
Speaker 1: happened multiple times this year, where death threats are being

780
00:38:04,918 --> 00:38:08,598
Speaker 1: made on social media to Major League Baseball players and

781
00:38:08,638 --> 00:38:12,358
Speaker 1: their significant others because they didn't perform well, which meant

782
00:38:12,358 --> 00:38:14,318
Speaker 1: that someone had to bet on that game. And now

783
00:38:14,358 --> 00:38:18,078
Speaker 1: you're losing money based on player performance. So we are

784
00:38:18,158 --> 00:38:22,158
Speaker 1: now treating baseball players not as human beings but as assets,

785
00:38:22,198 --> 00:38:24,718
Speaker 1: as stocks that go up or down. And when you're

786
00:38:24,758 --> 00:38:28,878
Speaker 1: losing money based on the performance of players, the anger

787
00:38:29,078 --> 00:38:32,398
Speaker 1: becomes palpable in terms of how people react. You're not

788
00:38:32,438 --> 00:38:35,558
Speaker 1: just disappointed, but now you're taking it personally. That money

789
00:38:35,598 --> 00:38:37,838
Speaker 1: is coming out of your pocket. And I think now

790
00:38:37,958 --> 00:38:40,318
Speaker 1: the relationship between the fan and the game is not

791
00:38:40,438 --> 00:38:43,718
Speaker 1: so much your favorite team or especially how the game

792
00:38:43,838 --> 00:38:47,958
Speaker 1: is played, but what's the upside? How much money can

793
00:38:47,998 --> 00:38:49,998
Speaker 1: I make on this? What bet should I put on

794
00:38:50,078 --> 00:38:53,238
Speaker 1: this game? And I think baseball's got to be really careful.

795
00:38:53,318 --> 00:38:58,238
Speaker 1: I understand it's incredibly popular and it's become so ubiquitous

796
00:38:58,278 --> 00:39:00,278
Speaker 1: and so easy to do. Again, we live in a

797
00:39:00,278 --> 00:39:03,158
Speaker 1: world of convenience now, even betting has become an issue

798
00:39:03,198 --> 00:39:07,158
Speaker 1: of convenience, where we've removed all barriers to betting, and

799
00:39:07,238 --> 00:39:09,398
Speaker 1: a lot of people who should not be betting are betting,

800
00:39:09,758 --> 00:39:12,478
Speaker 1: especially young people, because it is so easy. And I

801
00:39:12,518 --> 00:39:15,798
Speaker 1: think it's warped our view of who the players are

802
00:39:15,958 --> 00:39:17,838
Speaker 1: and what our connection to the game is.

803
00:39:18,198 --> 00:39:20,758
Speaker 4: Well, you're creating this group of artificial fans.

804
00:39:20,758 --> 00:39:23,678
Speaker 3: I mean, everybody's not fans, like you alluded to it

805
00:39:23,718 --> 00:39:25,598
Speaker 3: in the we just talked about with Jane.

806
00:39:25,638 --> 00:39:28,278
Speaker 4: But my hat, I get to say those Cardinal.

807
00:39:28,078 --> 00:39:29,838
Speaker 3: Hat When I was nine years old and I became

808
00:39:29,878 --> 00:39:32,718
Speaker 3: an absolute fan, and I could sell everything about every

809
00:39:32,718 --> 00:39:36,358
Speaker 3: Cardinal in the sixty four sixty five that era. Right

810
00:39:36,358 --> 00:39:38,638
Speaker 3: after the time I started playing minor league baseball, I

811
00:39:38,718 --> 00:39:42,758
Speaker 3: was a legitimate, sincere Cardinals baseball fan. The fans today

812
00:39:42,758 --> 00:39:45,398
Speaker 3: are more artificial. I mean, look at the I mean, listen,

813
00:39:45,718 --> 00:39:48,758
Speaker 3: uniforms are no longer uniform. Kind of means like the same,

814
00:39:48,838 --> 00:39:51,558
Speaker 3: doesn't it. Uniforms are no longer uniform, and there's all

815
00:39:51,558 --> 00:39:55,718
Speaker 3: these abominations. I mean, the Savannah bananas have really had

816
00:39:55,838 --> 00:39:59,238
Speaker 3: way more influence than anybody wants to admit to in

817
00:39:59,318 --> 00:40:01,958
Speaker 3: our game right now, and it's a one time deal.

818
00:40:02,158 --> 00:40:04,598
Speaker 4: Listen. I love what they're doing. I think it's great.

819
00:40:04,878 --> 00:40:07,918
Speaker 3: It's the Harlem glow trotters of baseball, and I think

820
00:40:07,958 --> 00:40:09,918
Speaker 3: if you get to see them once or twice on

821
00:40:09,958 --> 00:40:13,198
Speaker 3: an annual basis, that's plenty. But the color and everything else,

822
00:40:13,198 --> 00:40:16,238
Speaker 3: and the bat flips and the historyonics and the celebrations

823
00:40:16,278 --> 00:40:20,038
Speaker 3: and all this stuff. It's good for them in their situation.

824
00:40:20,158 --> 00:40:22,278
Speaker 3: But I think it's pouring.

825
00:40:21,998 --> 00:40:23,718
Speaker 4: Over into what we're doing here.

826
00:40:24,038 --> 00:40:26,718
Speaker 3: So it's more of a we're creating an artificial fan

827
00:40:26,758 --> 00:40:28,558
Speaker 3: and not a sincere fan, and how long is that

828
00:40:28,638 --> 00:40:31,958
Speaker 3: going to last? You really truly need to understand and

829
00:40:31,998 --> 00:40:34,518
Speaker 3: know the game and respect it. I think to have

830
00:40:34,598 --> 00:40:38,118
Speaker 3: this the fans ship be sustained over a period of

831
00:40:38,158 --> 00:40:40,078
Speaker 3: time as opposed to being transient.

832
00:40:40,318 --> 00:40:41,158
Speaker 4: That's what we're doing.

833
00:40:41,558 --> 00:40:45,318
Speaker 3: We're creating artificial fans, and maybe they're getting tabulated in

834
00:40:45,398 --> 00:40:51,038
Speaker 3: these wonderful, possibly manipulated numbers in regards to who's watching

835
00:40:51,038 --> 00:40:54,798
Speaker 3: and how popular it's become. I'm always aware and I'm

836
00:40:54,838 --> 00:40:57,558
Speaker 3: always kind of suspect of those kind of when I

837
00:40:57,598 --> 00:40:59,998
Speaker 3: hear those things, and whether it's in baseball, whether I

838
00:41:00,038 --> 00:41:02,438
Speaker 3: watch the news at night these polls all the time.

839
00:41:02,478 --> 00:41:05,398
Speaker 3: Who's taking the polls? Kind of questions are being asked.

840
00:41:05,598 --> 00:41:07,918
Speaker 3: It's very it's dubious to me, and I don't I

841
00:41:07,918 --> 00:41:09,478
Speaker 3: don't have a lot of faith after all, look at

842
00:41:09,518 --> 00:41:12,798
Speaker 3: the previous elections and how they've turned out after substantially

843
00:41:12,798 --> 00:41:16,638
Speaker 3: different information being given to us regarding polls. Like she said,

844
00:41:16,638 --> 00:41:19,318
Speaker 3: if there's an eyeball test to it, Dusty talked about it.

845
00:41:19,398 --> 00:41:22,278
Speaker 3: I think I am an eyeball guy. I'm a field guy,

846
00:41:22,718 --> 00:41:25,678
Speaker 3: but I'm also listening. I do know that sometimes you

847
00:41:25,758 --> 00:41:28,798
Speaker 3: can be deceived. I do understand that, but then sometimes

848
00:41:28,878 --> 00:41:30,158
Speaker 3: numbers could be deceptive too.

849
00:41:30,318 --> 00:41:32,278
Speaker 2: Well, this has been an interesting journey, Joe.

850
00:41:32,278 --> 00:41:36,958
Speaker 1: We've touched on a lot of important macro topics that we.

851
00:41:36,998 --> 00:41:38,398
Speaker 2: Could talk about forever.

852
00:41:38,598 --> 00:41:40,638
Speaker 1: But that's going to put some pressure on you to

853
00:41:40,758 --> 00:41:42,918
Speaker 1: end this episode of the Book of Joe with something

854
00:41:42,958 --> 00:41:46,158
Speaker 1: even more momentous when it comes to our thought of

855
00:41:46,238 --> 00:41:46,638
Speaker 1: the day.

856
00:41:46,798 --> 00:41:49,918
Speaker 2: So, mister closer, the ball is yours. It's the ninth inning.

857
00:41:50,358 --> 00:41:50,998
Speaker 2: Take us home.

858
00:41:51,358 --> 00:41:52,158
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was really.

859
00:41:52,238 --> 00:41:54,598
Speaker 3: I mean, I've kind of figured on all this before

860
00:41:54,918 --> 00:41:56,798
Speaker 3: before we talked to Jane today, and I.

861
00:41:56,758 --> 00:41:58,118
Speaker 4: Had like a couple of different things.

862
00:41:58,478 --> 00:41:59,918
Speaker 3: So I'm going to give you like a couple because

863
00:42:00,118 --> 00:42:03,438
Speaker 3: it starts with creativity, and that's what's the attempt here,

864
00:42:03,478 --> 00:42:06,958
Speaker 3: is to be creative in regards to being.

865
00:42:06,518 --> 00:42:09,078
Speaker 4: Creative and then creating kind of a buzz.

866
00:42:09,158 --> 00:42:14,358
Speaker 3: Like Kramer suggested when the Topless Girl came up when

867
00:42:14,358 --> 00:42:17,478
Speaker 3: they were vacationing in the Cape Route on the Island.

868
00:42:17,878 --> 00:42:21,318
Speaker 3: Creativity is thinking up new things. Innovation is doing new things.

869
00:42:21,638 --> 00:42:24,318
Speaker 3: So trying to create a buzz, right, not easy to do.

870
00:42:24,718 --> 00:42:26,878
Speaker 3: But creativity is thinking up new things. So there's new

871
00:42:26,918 --> 00:42:29,958
Speaker 3: things being thought of, and then innovation is doing new things.

872
00:42:29,998 --> 00:42:32,518
Speaker 3: And I actually have you have to say that there

873
00:42:32,558 --> 00:42:35,638
Speaker 3: is innovation in baseball. There are not only thinking about

874
00:42:35,678 --> 00:42:39,798
Speaker 3: new things, but they're incorporating them and then for better

875
00:42:39,878 --> 00:42:42,478
Speaker 3: or for worse, and for how it's being interpreted, it's

876
00:42:42,478 --> 00:42:44,918
Speaker 3: out there. So I give d give credit because listen,

877
00:42:45,318 --> 00:42:48,398
Speaker 3: that's been my whole existence in professional baseball. My existence

878
00:42:48,438 --> 00:42:51,918
Speaker 3: period is always trying to be creative and trying to

879
00:42:52,518 --> 00:42:55,918
Speaker 3: get an edge, create an edge based on what everybody

880
00:42:55,958 --> 00:42:56,558
Speaker 3: else is doing.

881
00:42:56,598 --> 00:42:57,798
Speaker 4: The zigging and the zagging.

882
00:42:58,118 --> 00:43:00,518
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's different than what we're talking

883
00:43:00,558 --> 00:43:02,918
Speaker 3: about here, but that's always been my gig was to

884
00:43:03,558 --> 00:43:06,398
Speaker 3: try to stay ahead of the opposition. Honor the past,

885
00:43:06,478 --> 00:43:09,958
Speaker 3: but don't let it control your future. And regarding traditions,

886
00:43:10,118 --> 00:43:13,278
Speaker 3: traditions worth keeping, do you release those that which no

887
00:43:13,358 --> 00:43:16,318
Speaker 3: longer serve a purpose? These are I get conflicted, So

888
00:43:16,358 --> 00:43:19,558
Speaker 3: you have to realize and look, Okay, my cars, I

889
00:43:19,598 --> 00:43:21,518
Speaker 3: have old cars. We talk about this often, but I

890
00:43:21,518 --> 00:43:24,598
Speaker 3: don't want to drive a fifty six Chevy as was.

891
00:43:24,918 --> 00:43:27,478
Speaker 3: I want to drive a fifty six Chevy as Is

892
00:43:27,518 --> 00:43:30,398
Speaker 3: after the rest o mod. So there's that to be.

893
00:43:30,918 --> 00:43:33,878
Speaker 3: I guess I'm being contradictory when I have old cars

894
00:43:33,878 --> 00:43:35,838
Speaker 3: but their new cars basically inside.

895
00:43:36,158 --> 00:43:37,798
Speaker 4: So what traditions are worth keeping?

896
00:43:37,918 --> 00:43:40,878
Speaker 3: Is it worth keeping that little slant six engine that

897
00:43:40,878 --> 00:43:42,838
Speaker 3: does no power? Do I put a three point fifty

898
00:43:43,438 --> 00:43:45,998
Speaker 3: or better into this thing and get some power and

899
00:43:46,158 --> 00:43:48,718
Speaker 3: be able to get onto the freeway? See, I guess,

900
00:43:49,318 --> 00:43:51,638
Speaker 3: I guess sometimes I could be contradictory, and I'm really

901
00:43:51,638 --> 00:43:54,238
Speaker 3: trying to come to grips with all this. But honor

902
00:43:54,278 --> 00:43:57,958
Speaker 3: the past, but don't let it control your future. Creativity, innovation,

903
00:43:58,118 --> 00:44:00,518
Speaker 3: all this stuff. That's why I was stuck with today,

904
00:44:00,558 --> 00:44:02,558
Speaker 3: and I think what Jane is doing right now is

905
00:44:02,598 --> 00:44:06,198
Speaker 3: going to create those kind of thoughts, And for me,

906
00:44:06,278 --> 00:44:09,718
Speaker 3: it's always about not just pushing back because it's not

907
00:44:09,838 --> 00:44:11,678
Speaker 3: something I'd been thinking about. So I want to be

908
00:44:12,158 --> 00:44:14,798
Speaker 3: very open minded and try to suck this all up

909
00:44:15,118 --> 00:44:18,238
Speaker 3: and eventually come to the conclusions what do I think about.

910
00:44:17,998 --> 00:44:19,958
Speaker 4: This when it comes to baseball.

911
00:44:20,078 --> 00:44:23,038
Speaker 3: I have concluded that I think I love the pitch clock,

912
00:44:23,118 --> 00:44:28,278
Speaker 3: I love the PitchCom Superstars, great Changes, rock and Roll absolutely,

913
00:44:28,558 --> 00:44:31,318
Speaker 3: the other stuff I think is superfluous, and then moving

914
00:44:31,358 --> 00:44:35,718
Speaker 3: it further uniforms and city connects and all the bat

915
00:44:35,798 --> 00:44:40,478
Speaker 3: flips and permitting all this other stuff interfering with strategy.

916
00:44:40,878 --> 00:44:44,518
Speaker 3: Having technology, you know, really promote not arguing with umpires,

917
00:44:44,518 --> 00:44:47,278
Speaker 3: which is part of the game. All this stuff, to

918
00:44:47,318 --> 00:44:49,558
Speaker 3: me needs to be I don't know if ILL ever

919
00:44:49,598 --> 00:44:51,878
Speaker 3: concede to that stuff. So that's my conflict.

920
00:44:52,158 --> 00:44:54,518
Speaker 1: You just made me think, Joe, in terms of honoring

921
00:44:54,558 --> 00:44:57,678
Speaker 1: the past and still moving forward. To borrow one of

922
00:44:57,718 --> 00:45:01,398
Speaker 1: your ideas, how about one week of the baseball season

923
00:45:01,478 --> 00:45:04,318
Speaker 1: we call it American Legion Week. Do it, and we

924
00:45:04,438 --> 00:45:07,158
Speaker 1: take all the iPads out of the dugout, We take

925
00:45:07,398 --> 00:45:11,038
Speaker 1: all the laminated defensive positioning cards out of the player's pockets.

926
00:45:11,278 --> 00:45:15,318
Speaker 2: We tone down the incessant noise in the ballpark.

927
00:45:15,318 --> 00:45:18,118
Speaker 1: If you go to Yankee Stadium and Dodgers Stadium especially,

928
00:45:18,238 --> 00:45:22,438
Speaker 1: there is not a moment of quiet between pitches. So

929
00:45:22,558 --> 00:45:24,838
Speaker 1: how about one week out of the year we just

930
00:45:24,918 --> 00:45:28,358
Speaker 1: remind people of how great this game can be on

931
00:45:28,398 --> 00:45:32,998
Speaker 1: its own and let just the players' initiatives and the

932
00:45:32,998 --> 00:45:34,918
Speaker 1: way that they read the ball off the bat and

933
00:45:35,038 --> 00:45:38,718
Speaker 1: making their own decisions and stop, you know, franchising out

934
00:45:38,758 --> 00:45:43,558
Speaker 1: decision making to technology. Play an American Legion week technology off,

935
00:45:43,798 --> 00:45:44,478
Speaker 1: go play ball.

936
00:45:44,638 --> 00:45:46,998
Speaker 3: Oh god, I love I swear to god, that's awesome.

937
00:45:47,318 --> 00:45:49,358
Speaker 3: I love that. No walk up music.

938
00:45:49,678 --> 00:45:51,638
Speaker 2: Now you can wear the retro uniforms too.

939
00:45:51,878 --> 00:45:56,518
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're real uniforms that all match right, and that's

940
00:45:56,518 --> 00:45:58,598
Speaker 3: what that's the definition of uniform.

941
00:45:58,718 --> 00:46:00,878
Speaker 4: So yeah, that tld me. I like that, not a

942
00:46:00,878 --> 00:46:01,678
Speaker 4: little bit a lot.

943
00:46:01,878 --> 00:46:05,198
Speaker 3: That would be something I think would be wonderfully appealing.

944
00:46:05,238 --> 00:46:07,518
Speaker 3: And again this is my sensibilities. I'd like to think

945
00:46:07,598 --> 00:46:10,638
Speaker 3: others would be into it too. Well done, man, I'm

946
00:46:10,678 --> 00:46:11,998
Speaker 3: on board absolutely.

947
00:46:11,998 --> 00:46:13,558
Speaker 2: One week out of the year, that's all.

948
00:46:13,518 --> 00:46:14,998
Speaker 4: I think, And that would happen.

949
00:46:15,118 --> 00:46:17,558
Speaker 3: Do it in August, come to the ballpark later, No,

950
00:46:17,598 --> 00:46:20,118
Speaker 3: batting practice on the field, you know, all this kind

951
00:46:20,158 --> 00:46:23,238
Speaker 3: of stuff. You know, permit the body to rest, permit

952
00:46:23,278 --> 00:46:26,878
Speaker 3: the mind to rest, come out play the game and

953
00:46:26,958 --> 00:46:29,918
Speaker 3: I it would be so interesting to watch and without

954
00:46:29,958 --> 00:46:30,718
Speaker 3: the interference.

955
00:46:30,838 --> 00:46:33,558
Speaker 4: Wow, great idea. Love it, absolutely love it.

956
00:46:33,638 --> 00:46:35,438
Speaker 2: Well, it's been a lot of fun. Joe James a

957
00:46:35,438 --> 00:46:36,038
Speaker 2: great guest.

958
00:46:36,078 --> 00:46:38,158
Speaker 1: He's got a great book coming out and encourage people

959
00:46:38,198 --> 00:46:40,238
Speaker 1: to pick it up. It's out soon September the ninth,

960
00:46:40,278 --> 00:46:42,278
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time on the Book of Joe.

961
00:46:42,478 --> 00:46:44,518
Speaker 4: Well done, Tommy, Thank you for that. Appreciate it.

962
00:46:52,158 --> 00:46:55,358
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

963
00:46:55,598 --> 00:47:00,558
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

964
00:47:00,678 --> 00:47:02,478
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.