WEBVTT - The Very Image 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:10.879 Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. I've 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:13.760 talked to people that were there at those parties and 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:16.919 they said, the priest would Greek stakes are on a 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.000 Friday night and grill him. I mean, you're Catholic, at 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.680 can't he can't he steak kind of Friday night. But 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.360 they're pretty wild parties and these are These might have 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:26.840 been people that joined the priesthood so they wouldn't have 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.120 to go to war World or two. Who knows, but 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:33.479 I think they probably met. Then. This is Jim Graham. 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.040 Jim is now seventy three years old. He's retired from 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:40.160 a long career as an airline executive, and he lives 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.760 with his wife in South Carolina. If you were to 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.559 pass by Jim on the street, you might peg him 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.440 for an older gentleman living a quiet, simple life. He 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.400 has a sweet face, a bit on the reddish side, 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:57.360 and kind eyes that seem ready at any given moment 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:02.000 to laugh or to cry. This is a story of 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:06.920 a secret so immense, so tightly held not only by 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.760 a family, but by one of the most powerful institutions 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:22.800 in the world, the Catholic Church. I'm Danny Shapiro, and 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.520 this is Family secrets, the secrets that are kept from us, 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.400 the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:34.920 keep from ourselves. I grew up in the suburbs of 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:39.399 Buffalo Williamsville, New York. We lived in a quiet street 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.600 about two miles from the downtown center, and I was 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.440 raised with my two older sisters, one two years older, 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.600 one eight years older. John Graham, my father, lived with 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:55.040 us and his parents who really raised me. My mother 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.320 was divorced from John Graham. She lived in New York City, 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:01.680 and she would see us out twice a year at 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.559 four consecutive days, and these appointments or visitations were arranged 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.120 by attorneys, and the hours of seeing us would be 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.840 from ten o'clock morning to seven o'clock at night. And 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:13.400 in the house we lived and I could never talk 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:15.280 about my mother. There are no photographs of my mother. 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:17.960 It was just understood that there would be in all 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:20.919 contact with my mother. The only thing we got from 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:26.360 my mother was a birthday cards and Christmas package. And 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.480 how did that feel to you as a as a kid? 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:31.680 I mean, was there an absence in terms of your 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.600 mom not being around? Yes, I mean they're my friends. 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.079 All had head mothers, and my friends would ask, you, know, 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.000 where is your mother? And I think that on the 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.600 street when my mother would come by and pick us 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.399 up at ten o'clock in the morning, everybody be looking 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.080 out the window because they're all kind of anxious to 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.000 know who my mother is. She never got out of 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:51.680 the car, so it was always kind of a secret, 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:56.080 not just at school, but on on our street. Um, 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.360 and how was your mother during those visits? They were 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:00.560 joyful those visits. You know, the first time get hugged, 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:06.400 I get guessed. This is the nineteen fifties. A father 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:11.120 getting custody of three children unheard of. So what had 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.360 his mother done that was so horrible? When Jim asked 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.399 his mother why he almost never saw her, she told 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.560 him that a powerful divorce attorney had handled the divorce. 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.359 But the Grahams weren't a wealthy family, so if you 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.359 really thought about it, it didn't make sense. There had 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.400 to be another reason why Jim's father was granted custody. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:36.360 After all, he wasn't exactly the fatherly type. So talk 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:38.960 to me a little bit about drawn Graham, the figure 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.720 that he was for you as a boy as you 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.520 were growing up. He was didn't spend much most time 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.080 with me at all. He left early in the morning, 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.080 came home late at night. He ran a gas station. 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.200 UM six five days out of the year he would 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.560 meet with us at regular dinner time. He came well 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.240 later and his mother would serve him, you know, a 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.960 steak almost every night. Later ever threw a ball with me. 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.200 Um never said a nice thing to me, never never 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.080 motivated me, never asked anything about my games that I 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.640 played baseball or basketball, Who want or you know how 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:14.240 I did. It was kind of like a no contact 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:17.440 sport unless something serious came up and I had to 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.080 ask permission for something. And then when I wanted to 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:22.520 go to college, go to Prade Institute Commercial Artist, and 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:24.680 I had good grades. My very good grades are about 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:26.680 B B plus plus. They had all a's and art. 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:28.880 He said, I'm not going to co sign alone. If 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:31.920 you flunk out, I'm stuck with the bill. So it was. 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.640 It was just a very strange upbringing. So Jim goes 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.760 to college in Buffalo and one day he comes home 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:41.920 to find that his grandmother and his aunt have opened 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:46.120 his private mail a letter from his girlfriend. This invasion 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.480 of his privacy is the last straw in a miserable childhood. 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.400 He throws his books and belongings into the back of 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.719 his car and drives to New York City. I knew 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:57.680 that my mother had She mentioned she lived near Iraq 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:59.960 idle Held Airport. That's what it was called, nose Day. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.480 So I filed the science addle where airport was just 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.279 how Kennedy Airport. And I couldn't believe how big that 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:07.280 the airport was. It was bigger than Buffalo, New York 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.119 could seemed. So I pulled over and found her a number, 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.800 and information called her and she said, where are you 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:15.760 calling from. I said, I'm here at old Airport. I 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.839 thought you lived near the airport, so she said just 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.919 stay there, we'll come find you. Well, I mean, she 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:22.480 was just well, she was shocked that I was there 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.279 in the first place, and asked if I had told 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.120 the Grahams that I was down here, and I said 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.120 I hadn't. She said, well, you know, when we get home, 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:30.640 you better give them a call that comes. I'm sure 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.960 they're concerned about where you are. And then she was just, 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:35.520 you know, very joyous to have me, and she was 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:37.760 showing me off to the neighbors right away. The next morning, 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:42.040 and it was she was just was in her element 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:48.960 that she had a child to describe to people. So 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.560 Jim is eighteen years old and living with his mother 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.040 for the very first time. His mom is now remarried 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.040 to a New York City cop. Jim gets a job 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.680 working as a mail boy at LaGuardia Airport. It and 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:02.400 he stays with his mom and stepped dad for a 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.560 while until he gets on his feet, and then a 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.960 lot happens. Jim works his way up through American Airlines 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.040 and is promoted each year. He's drafted into the army 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.800 and as a two year stint, when he returns home, 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.360 he meets his future wife. Then I met my wife, 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.760 who was a stewardess with American Alliance Better at Gate eight. 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.760 We got buried, and it was interesting. When my sisters 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.560 get married, they invited one parent to the wedding night 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.680 the other because John Graham and my mother hadn't seen 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:32.599 each other in twenty some years. But I didn't feel 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.400 it was right to bring my wife into a dysfunctional family. 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:38.640 I went to my mother and said, will you come 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:40.560 to our wedding? And she said did your father come? 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:42.120 And I said no, So I went to my father, 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.320 I said, you will come to my wedding and she's 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:46.839 He said, as your mother coming and I said no. 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:49.479 So they both ended up at the wedding um and 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.039 we're surprised you see each other after twenty some years. 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:57.279 The reception was at my Melody's parents house, and we 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.320 had the receiving line in the living room, and then 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.960 the reception was outside under tents in the backyard, and 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.159 I put my father in the receiving line and my 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.320 mother went through it and shook his hand, and she 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.480 didn't realize it was him until like two people later. 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.160 And both entourises lent to different parts of the backyard 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.560 under the tent, and they had never had a conversation, 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:17.200 but I could see them peeking at each other, peering 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:23.040 over the other guests. I've noticed that when it comes 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:27.080 to family secrets, often without even knowing there is a secret, 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.520 people become hell bent on not repeating history. I know 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:34.400 that was true for me, especially when I was starting 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.440 a family of my own. I didn't know that there 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.200 was a massive secret hanging in the air, or I 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.920 should say I didn't consciously know it. But I was 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.280 clear on one thing in my family, the one I 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.520 was making everything was going to be out in the open. 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.640 That's what strikes me most about what Jim does here. 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.160 He wants his new wife to meet both his parents 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:03.040 at his wedding like a normal family. And another thing 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:07.200 I've noticed, when there are secrets, cracks begin to appear. 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.600 No matter how seamless the facade may seem to be, 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:15.400 at some point or another, there are hints, clues, a word, 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.320 a phrase, a gesture that allows us to see that 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:22.840 there's something lurking beneath the surface. John Graham was on 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:27.680 an airplane with me several years before he died. It 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:29.200 was a pass that I gave him because when you 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:31.000 were with the airlines and can give your parents passes, 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:32.920 and I said, when you go out to Hawaii to 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.559 visit my sisters and they're grand one had a grandchild. 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.079 So I put him on that airplane. And I was 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.880 working that airplane. I was a representative for Americans selling 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.080 the return flight. I was a salesman at board basically, 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:48.600 and I'm in a suit and talking to the passengers. 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:49.960 And I put him up for his class, and I 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:51.720 told us Stewarts just to take care of me. He's 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.080 my father, and he'd never been on an aeroplane before, 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.160 I don't believe. And so after the second meal that 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:58.520 he had, he called me up there when I was 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:00.439 kind of finished talking to the passengers. He said, we'd 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:02.680 just sit down with with me for a minute. He 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:04.920 was in the lounge opposite the galley at that point. 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.880 And again, you know, I always thought of him as 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.480 the the j Clebato type guy, but here he's older, 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.120 weakened a little bit by diabetes, maybe hard condition, and 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.360 he said, I just want to apologize for the way 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:28.480 I treated you, and he cried profusely. We're going to 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:36.400 pause for a moment. John Graham dies when Jim is 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.840 in his mid thirties, and one night, many years after 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:44.160 John Graham's death, Jim, who is by now, is up 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.320 late drinking scotch with a cousin and he talks about 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.720 the difference in the ways the two of them were raised. 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.360 Jim speaks openly about his father, his temper, his neglect, 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.760 and his cousin goes back and tells his father, Jim's uncle, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.920 and Jim's uncle gets very angry that Jim has been 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:07.360 speaking ill of his dear departed brother, and so Jim's 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.160 uncle otto let's lose with a piece of huge information. 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.600 He tells his son that Jim is not a Graham, 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:21.080 that John Graham is not Jim's father at all. This 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:24.199 would be enough of a bombshell, but the real bombshell 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:30.200 is Jim's father. His biological father is a Catholic priest. 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:35.920 Jim's mother had an affair with a Catholic priest. Well, 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.760 he he leaks the fact that I'm not a Graham, 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.360 that my father was a priest to his son. His 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:46.280 son leaks the information to my wife, and my wife 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.160 for a few weeks didn't tell me because you didn't 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:49.959 know if his truly so she kind of went through 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:55.800 the Graham family to get some validation. And the aunt 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.600 that lived with us said, don't tell him. And what 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.160 did she? She told me. It was over dinner in 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.439 San Francisco to a nice restaurant. I was out there 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.040 on business. I ordered about it on the rocks for 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.160 my drink, and normy Melody would drink glass wine, but 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:13.800 she ordered the same thing, so I knew something was up. 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.920 So during that dinner conversation, she said, they're going to 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:21.960 tell you something new you've never heard before. And she 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:23.920 said that they told me that your father was not 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.480 John Graham, your father was Father Sullivan, Thomas Sullivan, a 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:32.800 Catholic priest. Did you believe her? Did you believe it? Oh? Yes, 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:35.880 you did instantly. I mean because because then I looked 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.760 at my history, my childhood and all those issues that 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:41.839 works very strange, just made sense. I could just see, 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.800 I see everything fallen into place. It was I was 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.840 shocked because you normally think these things happened to other people. 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:49.760 You read about it in a book, you're seeing a movie, 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.360 doesn't happen to ordinary people. So for a moment I 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.880 was shocked, but then I could see it did happen 0:11:56.120 --> 0:12:00.520 because the strange background I had it all added up. Yeah. 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.520 It's another thing that I feel like I hear a 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.959 lot and I understand pretty well. Is that that feeling 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.240 of like suddenly it's it's such an unlikely, impossible thing, 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.160 and yet it's like the lights blink on a's like, oh, 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.640 that's that makes sense. Sure, Even though it's so shocking, 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.040 it's both shocking and makes sense at the same time. 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:21.640 So that conversation I had with John Graham in the airplane, 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:23.079 that was one of the first things I thought of. 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.680 Jim calls his aunt Katherine and uncle Otto and asks 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:30.440 for a meeting. He wants to talk with them about 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:34.920 his real history. They're not too pleased about this. After all, 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.839 Uncle Otto is still mad at Jim from aligning his brother, 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.520 plus they really just don't want to talk about Jim's 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:46.240 real history. It was there was no warm greeting. We've 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.760 walked and I walked into the kitchen. We're sitting around 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.440 oak table, and it was now in his eighties and 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:54.719 Katherine's and her eighties, and it was very awkward. I 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:56.720 wasn't offered a cup of coffee, a coke or anything, 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.160 so I just asked where the glasses were and I 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.199 put myself us water out of the faucet, sat down, 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.880 and it was just very very quiet. And then finally 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.000 Catherine said I have something here for and she pulled 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.480 a m obituary on a newsletter on the table and 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.520 she said, this man maybe your father. We don't know 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:20.520 only the principles now and they're all dead. So I'm looking. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:24.160 I'm looking at a photograph of of a priest with 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.679 you know, the obituary written with all his background and 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.040 he had receding hair. It was an older picture of 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.079 a priest, but it might looked at his eyes. It 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.920 looked at his nose, he looked at his mouth. I 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:41.120 looked at his chin. Looked just like me. The newsletter 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.200 the obituary came from is called the Opline World. The 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.880 Ablins are a Catholic order founded in France in eighteen 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.120 forty three. Primarily missionaries, they came to North America through 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:56.040 Canada and eventually found their way down to Buffalo. There's 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:57.960 the name of an editor on the newsletter as well. 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.360 Jim looks up that editor and finds an address and 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:06.960 phone number in Tewksbury, Massachusetts. I think the fact that 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.040 they said, you know, these are the principles, only they 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.040 know when they're dead, I think that was a talking point, 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:13.760 probably given to them at the church. That's how they 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.360 should handle it, as if that would then be a 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:22.000 completely closed door exactly. This reminds me of a moment 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:23.840 in my own story where I went to see this 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.000 eighty something you're old rabbi who knew my family knew 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.360 my dad told him the whole story of what I 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.760 knew at that point, and he just turned to me 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.840 and he said, what story would ease your heart? And 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.960 I said, the true one, and he just looked at 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:42.200 me and he said, you'll never know. And I remember thinking, 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.000 you don't know who you're dealing with. And I don't 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.760 think they knew who they're dealing with here. So the 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:52.760 Graham's shut you down, and you have the editor or 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.520 you know, some some kind of lead, right and interesting case. 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.960 You're not a journalist, but you you sounds like you've 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.040 become one. I have. So, so I called the number 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.280 and I asked an appointment to see the editor. And 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.160 I just mentioned that my family was friendly with the 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.440 father Sullivan and Buffalo years ago, and I just you know, 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.040 they're always talked about him. I just want to come 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.600 up and just see what he knew about him. So 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.320 UM made the appointment and he when it made the appoinment, 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:18.960 he said, we'll call us a couple of days before, 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:23.160 just to reconfirm. So when I reconfirmed, he was had 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.640 a different attitude. He was kind of saying, well, we're 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:27.040 not gonna be able to go to lunch and I 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.360 can only meet you at ten o'clock. And he knows 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.120 I live in oys debate and before and a half 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.200 hour drive to Tewkesbury, so to be a very short mean, 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:35.760 he was trying to discourage me. I said, well, I'll 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:42.120 be there. Father. When it comes to secrets, timing is everything. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.560 What if Jim's uncle Otto had let slip his long 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.720 held knowledge that Jim was the secret child of Father 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:53.040 Tom Sullivan while Father Sullivan was still living. What do 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.920 you suppose would have happened then? Or did that slip 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.480 happen only because Uncle Otto and Aunt Catherine knew that 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.080 the priest was dead. There's no way of knowing, But 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:07.800 I do find the timing interesting, especially since Father Tom 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:12.000 Sullivan had only died a few months earlier. We stayed 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.080 with friends in Branford, Connecticut, the night before, and then 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.520 we drove up the next morning and my wife was 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:21.240 with me, and we met Father ready, and uh, he 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.920 was very businesslike, and I just kind of felt uncomfortable 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:26.440 that I'm not going to get much out of this 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.000 this meeting. But he asked him about a father Selvan, 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.760 and he said he was a great orator, he was 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.920 a great reader. He's a writer, he was an academic. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.000 Or the other priests up here they might be watching 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.120 the Boston Red Sox. You know, he was always walking 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.840 the halls and reading a time magazine or something for 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.480 the Jesuits. So he said nice things about him, and 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.600 then I said, are there any personal effects that he 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.080 might have that are still here? And he said, we're 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:52.880 all old, we don't we don't keep things, so there's 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.240 there's nothing here to show you. And he said that 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:56.720 there wouldn't be any reason for you to talk to 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.240 any other priests about him either, So he was just, 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.720 you know, trying to move the meeting along. And um 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.359 I asked if he had any relatives that might be alive, 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.199 and he said, he's from Lowell, but I don't I 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.600 don't think there's anybody alive. I don't recall anybody coming 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.200 to see him when he was in the infirmary, and 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.600 so I knew I wasn't getting any farther with him, 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:18.120 so I gave my business card and I looked at 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:19.680 him closely in the eyes, with a little bit of 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:21.600 a smile, and I said, you know, Father Ready, if 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.760 there's something you didn't tell me here today, and you 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.480 think you should, please give me a call. Once they're 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.800 back in the car driving away from the church, Jim's wife, 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.080 Melody asks him why he didn't tell Father Ready that 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.800 he's Tom Sullivan's son, but Jim just didn't feel comfortable. 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.920 He wasn't the right one. He says, there'll be another one. 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:48.200 They start heading home. On the next exit after Tewkesbury 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.760 is Lowell, which is where Jim has just learned his 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.240 father is from. So they pull off the exit. I 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.440 told you Jim as a born journalist, either that or 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.879 private eye. They go to the first church and ask 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.560 if anyone knew of a father Sullivan in town and 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.199 his fate would have it. The first person he asks 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.479 does know of father Sullivan, And so Jim and Melody 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.520 are directed to the Immaculate Conception Church. It was March 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:15.000 and there was snow in the ground, about a foot 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:16.320 of snow on the ground, but the sun was out 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:20.600 brilliant to its beautiful, beautiful day. So we drove to 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.120 the rectory and walked in and there was a secretary there, 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:28.600 and he asked if Father's savage his name was mentioned, 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.119 if he was available, and she said he's around here 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.040 in someplace. So she called a couple of numbers, and 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.040 while she was doing that, at the door behind us 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:37.440 and I could just see a silhouette because there was 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.200 a son and the snow in the background, it could 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.040 just see a silver an older priest with a hat 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.119 and a cape. And as he came close to me 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.200 then I could see his face, but very irish looking. 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.919 And the secretary said, this family is just looking to 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.000 hear know a little bit more about a father Sullivan. 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.440 And so he took us into a little anti room 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.480 right off the dusk from the secretary, and he said 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.960 basically the same thing as father. Ready. You know fatherrself 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.520 was great order, he's a writer's readers want and so forth. 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.520 He could you give a powerful sermon? And then I said, 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.480 out there any relatives left? And he said, let's go 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.200 out and ask the secretary. So we went out there 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:12.920 and she said, no, I think they're all dead. Y 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.200 all came here, was saying the choir. He had his mother, 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:18.480 three ants, and his uncle. They would come here with 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.000 his Sunday in a big black put But I think 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:23.440 they're all dead. And then he said to my wife, 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.840 he said there was a buffalo connection though, and you 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.440 might be interested in would you like to hear about that? 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.600 We said sure, so we walked on a longer hall. 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.440 He sat down behind a large desk like a bishop's desk. 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.000 We said on the other side, and he pointed up 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:39.159 my wife for you an attorney, and she said no. 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.280 He pointed at me, our u an attorney. I said no. 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.520 So I said to him, then you know, Father, He said, yeah, 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:47.560 I know. I said, how do you know? He said, 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:55.400 you looked just like At the end of their conversation, 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.679 Father Savage suggests to Jim that he'd just got on 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.520 with the rest of his life. He's still relatively young, 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:05.479 he has good genes. Father Savage actually tells him this, 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.560 and then he says, forget the injustices of the past. 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.400 Forgetting the injustices of the past, especially when those injustices 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:19.240 have shaped your entire life, well that's just not going 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:23.000 to happen. Jim comes back to visit Father Savage about 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.840 a month and a half later. This time he comes 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:30.800 alone and unannounced. Jim and Father Savage sit around a 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:35.119 small round table, and Jim asks for details. He had 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.360 heard that money had been put aside for his education. 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:41.439 He wondered where that money went, since certainly it had 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:45.400 never been used for that purpose, and Father Savage he 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:49.320 denies ever having told Jim anything about his father flat 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.520 out lies about it, even though I'm not really up 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.440 on my Catholic doctrine, I've got to assume that lying 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:59.040 is considered a sin. And Jim is pretty sure that 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:02.680 whoever a Father's savages bosses told him to shut it down, 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.960 that if Jim came back, they should deny everything. It's 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.280 kind of natural that they're gonna not tell me what 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:13.440 really would happen, just like a caught him off guard 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:18.439 that day. So Jim begins to knock on doors, lots 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:22.159 of doors. He does research on the opelite world and 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.760