Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. I've
Speaker 1: talked to people that were there at those parties and
Speaker 1: they said, the priest would Greek stakes are on a
Speaker 1: Friday night and grill him. I mean, you're Catholic, at
Speaker 1: can't he can't he steak kind of Friday night. But
Speaker 1: they're pretty wild parties and these are These might have
Speaker 1: been people that joined the priesthood so they wouldn't have
Speaker 1: to go to war World or two. Who knows, but
Speaker 1: I think they probably met. Then. This is Jim Graham.
Speaker 1: Jim is now seventy three years old. He's retired from
Speaker 1: a long career as an airline executive, and he lives
Speaker 1: with his wife in South Carolina. If you were to
Speaker 1: pass by Jim on the street, you might peg him
Speaker 1: for an older gentleman living a quiet, simple life. He
Speaker 1: has a sweet face, a bit on the reddish side,
Speaker 1: and kind eyes that seem ready at any given moment
Speaker 1: to laugh or to cry. This is a story of
Speaker 1: a secret so immense, so tightly held not only by
Speaker 1: a family, but by one of the most powerful institutions
Speaker 1: in the world, the Catholic Church. I'm Danny Shapiro, and
Speaker 1: this is Family secrets, the secrets that are kept from us,
Speaker 1: the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we
Speaker 1: keep from ourselves. I grew up in the suburbs of
Speaker 1: Buffalo Williamsville, New York. We lived in a quiet street
Speaker 1: about two miles from the downtown center, and I was
Speaker 1: raised with my two older sisters, one two years older,
Speaker 1: one eight years older. John Graham, my father, lived with
Speaker 1: us and his parents who really raised me. My mother
Speaker 1: was divorced from John Graham. She lived in New York City,
Speaker 1: and she would see us out twice a year at
Speaker 1: four consecutive days, and these appointments or visitations were arranged
Speaker 1: by attorneys, and the hours of seeing us would be
Speaker 1: from ten o'clock morning to seven o'clock at night. And
Speaker 1: in the house we lived and I could never talk
Speaker 1: about my mother. There are no photographs of my mother.
Speaker 1: It was just understood that there would be in all
Speaker 1: contact with my mother. The only thing we got from
Speaker 1: my mother was a birthday cards and Christmas package. And
Speaker 1: how did that feel to you as a as a kid?
Speaker 1: I mean, was there an absence in terms of your
Speaker 1: mom not being around? Yes, I mean they're my friends.
Speaker 1: All had head mothers, and my friends would ask, you, know,
Speaker 1: where is your mother? And I think that on the
Speaker 1: street when my mother would come by and pick us
Speaker 1: up at ten o'clock in the morning, everybody be looking
Speaker 1: out the window because they're all kind of anxious to
Speaker 1: know who my mother is. She never got out of
Speaker 1: the car, so it was always kind of a secret,
Speaker 1: not just at school, but on on our street. Um,
Speaker 1: and how was your mother during those visits? They were
Speaker 1: joyful those visits. You know, the first time get hugged,
Speaker 1: I get guessed. This is the nineteen fifties. A father
Speaker 1: getting custody of three children unheard of. So what had
Speaker 1: his mother done that was so horrible? When Jim asked
Speaker 1: his mother why he almost never saw her, she told
Speaker 1: him that a powerful divorce attorney had handled the divorce.
Speaker 1: But the Grahams weren't a wealthy family, so if you
Speaker 1: really thought about it, it didn't make sense. There had
Speaker 1: to be another reason why Jim's father was granted custody.
Speaker 1: After all, he wasn't exactly the fatherly type. So talk
Speaker 1: to me a little bit about drawn Graham, the figure
Speaker 1: that he was for you as a boy as you
Speaker 1: were growing up. He was didn't spend much most time
Speaker 1: with me at all. He left early in the morning,
Speaker 1: came home late at night. He ran a gas station.
Speaker 1: UM six five days out of the year he would
Speaker 1: meet with us at regular dinner time. He came well
Speaker 1: later and his mother would serve him, you know, a
Speaker 1: steak almost every night. Later ever threw a ball with me.
Speaker 1: Um never said a nice thing to me, never never
Speaker 1: motivated me, never asked anything about my games that I
Speaker 1: played baseball or basketball, Who want or you know how
Speaker 1: I did. It was kind of like a no contact
Speaker 1: sport unless something serious came up and I had to
Speaker 1: ask permission for something. And then when I wanted to
Speaker 1: go to college, go to Prade Institute Commercial Artist, and
Speaker 1: I had good grades. My very good grades are about
Speaker 1: B B plus plus. They had all a's and art.
Speaker 1: He said, I'm not going to co sign alone. If
Speaker 1: you flunk out, I'm stuck with the bill. So it was.
Speaker 1: It was just a very strange upbringing. So Jim goes
Speaker 1: to college in Buffalo and one day he comes home
Speaker 1: to find that his grandmother and his aunt have opened
Speaker 1: his private mail a letter from his girlfriend. This invasion
Speaker 1: of his privacy is the last straw in a miserable childhood.
Speaker 1: He throws his books and belongings into the back of
Speaker 1: his car and drives to New York City. I knew
Speaker 1: that my mother had She mentioned she lived near Iraq
Speaker 1: idle Held Airport. That's what it was called, nose Day.
Speaker 1: So I filed the science addle where airport was just
Speaker 1: how Kennedy Airport. And I couldn't believe how big that
Speaker 1: the airport was. It was bigger than Buffalo, New York
Speaker 1: could seemed. So I pulled over and found her a number,
Speaker 1: and information called her and she said, where are you
Speaker 1: calling from. I said, I'm here at old Airport. I
Speaker 1: thought you lived near the airport, so she said just
Speaker 1: stay there, we'll come find you. Well, I mean, she
Speaker 1: was just well, she was shocked that I was there
Speaker 1: in the first place, and asked if I had told
Speaker 1: the Grahams that I was down here, and I said
Speaker 1: I hadn't. She said, well, you know, when we get home,
Speaker 1: you better give them a call that comes. I'm sure
Speaker 1: they're concerned about where you are. And then she was just,
Speaker 1: you know, very joyous to have me, and she was
Speaker 1: showing me off to the neighbors right away. The next morning,
Speaker 1: and it was she was just was in her element
Speaker 1: that she had a child to describe to people. So
Speaker 1: Jim is eighteen years old and living with his mother
Speaker 1: for the very first time. His mom is now remarried
Speaker 1: to a New York City cop. Jim gets a job
Speaker 1: working as a mail boy at LaGuardia Airport. It and
Speaker 1: he stays with his mom and stepped dad for a
Speaker 1: while until he gets on his feet, and then a
Speaker 1: lot happens. Jim works his way up through American Airlines
Speaker 1: and is promoted each year. He's drafted into the army
Speaker 1: and as a two year stint, when he returns home,
Speaker 1: he meets his future wife. Then I met my wife,
Speaker 1: who was a stewardess with American Alliance Better at Gate eight.
Speaker 1: We got buried, and it was interesting. When my sisters
Speaker 1: get married, they invited one parent to the wedding night
Speaker 1: the other because John Graham and my mother hadn't seen
Speaker 1: each other in twenty some years. But I didn't feel
Speaker 1: it was right to bring my wife into a dysfunctional family.
Speaker 1: I went to my mother and said, will you come
Speaker 1: to our wedding? And she said did your father come?
Speaker 1: And I said no, So I went to my father,
Speaker 1: I said, you will come to my wedding and she's
Speaker 1: He said, as your mother coming and I said no.
Speaker 1: So they both ended up at the wedding um and
Speaker 1: we're surprised you see each other after twenty some years.
Speaker 1: The reception was at my Melody's parents house, and we
Speaker 1: had the receiving line in the living room, and then
Speaker 1: the reception was outside under tents in the backyard, and
Speaker 1: I put my father in the receiving line and my
Speaker 1: mother went through it and shook his hand, and she
Speaker 1: didn't realize it was him until like two people later.
Speaker 1: And both entourises lent to different parts of the backyard
Speaker 1: under the tent, and they had never had a conversation,
Speaker 1: but I could see them peeking at each other, peering
Speaker 1: over the other guests. I've noticed that when it comes
Speaker 1: to family secrets, often without even knowing there is a secret,
Speaker 1: people become hell bent on not repeating history. I know
Speaker 1: that was true for me, especially when I was starting
Speaker 1: a family of my own. I didn't know that there
Speaker 1: was a massive secret hanging in the air, or I
Speaker 1: should say I didn't consciously know it. But I was
Speaker 1: clear on one thing in my family, the one I
Speaker 1: was making everything was going to be out in the open.
Speaker 1: That's what strikes me most about what Jim does here.
Speaker 1: He wants his new wife to meet both his parents
Speaker 1: at his wedding like a normal family. And another thing
Speaker 1: I've noticed, when there are secrets, cracks begin to appear.
Speaker 1: No matter how seamless the facade may seem to be,
Speaker 1: at some point or another, there are hints, clues, a word,
Speaker 1: a phrase, a gesture that allows us to see that
Speaker 1: there's something lurking beneath the surface. John Graham was on
Speaker 1: an airplane with me several years before he died. It
Speaker 1: was a pass that I gave him because when you
Speaker 1: were with the airlines and can give your parents passes,
Speaker 1: and I said, when you go out to Hawaii to
Speaker 1: visit my sisters and they're grand one had a grandchild.
Speaker 1: So I put him on that airplane. And I was
Speaker 1: working that airplane. I was a representative for Americans selling
Speaker 1: the return flight. I was a salesman at board basically,
Speaker 1: and I'm in a suit and talking to the passengers.
Speaker 1: And I put him up for his class, and I
Speaker 1: told us Stewarts just to take care of me. He's
Speaker 1: my father, and he'd never been on an aeroplane before,
Speaker 1: I don't believe. And so after the second meal that
Speaker 1: he had, he called me up there when I was
Speaker 1: kind of finished talking to the passengers. He said, we'd
Speaker 1: just sit down with with me for a minute. He
Speaker 1: was in the lounge opposite the galley at that point.
Speaker 1: And again, you know, I always thought of him as
Speaker 1: the the j Clebato type guy, but here he's older,
Speaker 1: weakened a little bit by diabetes, maybe hard condition, and
Speaker 1: he said, I just want to apologize for the way
Speaker 1: I treated you, and he cried profusely. We're going to
Speaker 1: pause for a moment. John Graham dies when Jim is
Speaker 1: in his mid thirties, and one night, many years after
Speaker 1: John Graham's death, Jim, who is by now, is up
Speaker 1: late drinking scotch with a cousin and he talks about
Speaker 1: the difference in the ways the two of them were raised.
Speaker 1: Jim speaks openly about his father, his temper, his neglect,
Speaker 1: and his cousin goes back and tells his father, Jim's uncle,
Speaker 1: and Jim's uncle gets very angry that Jim has been
Speaker 1: speaking ill of his dear departed brother, and so Jim's
Speaker 1: uncle otto let's lose with a piece of huge information.
Speaker 1: He tells his son that Jim is not a Graham,
Speaker 1: that John Graham is not Jim's father at all. This
Speaker 1: would be enough of a bombshell, but the real bombshell
Speaker 1: is Jim's father. His biological father is a Catholic priest.
Speaker 1: Jim's mother had an affair with a Catholic priest. Well,
Speaker 1: he he leaks the fact that I'm not a Graham,
Speaker 1: that my father was a priest to his son. His
Speaker 1: son leaks the information to my wife, and my wife
Speaker 1: for a few weeks didn't tell me because you didn't
Speaker 1: know if his truly so she kind of went through
Speaker 1: the Graham family to get some validation. And the aunt
Speaker 1: that lived with us said, don't tell him. And what
Speaker 1: did she? She told me. It was over dinner in
Speaker 1: San Francisco to a nice restaurant. I was out there
Speaker 1: on business. I ordered about it on the rocks for
Speaker 1: my drink, and normy Melody would drink glass wine, but
Speaker 1: she ordered the same thing, so I knew something was up.
Speaker 1: So during that dinner conversation, she said, they're going to
Speaker 1: tell you something new you've never heard before. And she
Speaker 1: said that they told me that your father was not
Speaker 1: John Graham, your father was Father Sullivan, Thomas Sullivan, a
Speaker 1: Catholic priest. Did you believe her? Did you believe it? Oh? Yes,
Speaker 1: you did instantly. I mean because because then I looked
Speaker 1: at my history, my childhood and all those issues that
Speaker 1: works very strange, just made sense. I could just see,
Speaker 1: I see everything fallen into place. It was I was
Speaker 1: shocked because you normally think these things happened to other people.
Speaker 1: You read about it in a book, you're seeing a movie,
Speaker 1: doesn't happen to ordinary people. So for a moment I
Speaker 1: was shocked, but then I could see it did happen
Speaker 1: because the strange background I had it all added up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's another thing that I feel like I hear a
Speaker 1: lot and I understand pretty well. Is that that feeling
Speaker 1: of like suddenly it's it's such an unlikely, impossible thing,
Speaker 1: and yet it's like the lights blink on a's like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's that makes sense. Sure, Even though it's so shocking,
Speaker 1: it's both shocking and makes sense at the same time.
Speaker 1: So that conversation I had with John Graham in the airplane,
Speaker 1: that was one of the first things I thought of.
Speaker 1: Jim calls his aunt Katherine and uncle Otto and asks
Speaker 1: for a meeting. He wants to talk with them about
Speaker 1: his real history. They're not too pleased about this. After all,
Speaker 1: Uncle Otto is still mad at Jim from aligning his brother,
Speaker 1: plus they really just don't want to talk about Jim's
Speaker 1: real history. It was there was no warm greeting. We've
Speaker 1: walked and I walked into the kitchen. We're sitting around
Speaker 1: oak table, and it was now in his eighties and
Speaker 1: Katherine's and her eighties, and it was very awkward. I
Speaker 1: wasn't offered a cup of coffee, a coke or anything,
Speaker 1: so I just asked where the glasses were and I
Speaker 1: put myself us water out of the faucet, sat down,
Speaker 1: and it was just very very quiet. And then finally
Speaker 1: Catherine said I have something here for and she pulled
Speaker 1: a m obituary on a newsletter on the table and
Speaker 1: she said, this man maybe your father. We don't know
Speaker 1: only the principles now and they're all dead. So I'm looking.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at a photograph of of a priest with
Speaker 1: you know, the obituary written with all his background and
Speaker 1: he had receding hair. It was an older picture of
Speaker 1: a priest, but it might looked at his eyes. It
Speaker 1: looked at his nose, he looked at his mouth. I
Speaker 1: looked at his chin. Looked just like me. The newsletter
Speaker 1: the obituary came from is called the Opline World. The
Speaker 1: Ablins are a Catholic order founded in France in eighteen
Speaker 1: forty three. Primarily missionaries, they came to North America through
Speaker 1: Canada and eventually found their way down to Buffalo. There's
Speaker 1: the name of an editor on the newsletter as well.
Speaker 1: Jim looks up that editor and finds an address and
Speaker 1: phone number in Tewksbury, Massachusetts. I think the fact that
Speaker 1: they said, you know, these are the principles, only they
Speaker 1: know when they're dead, I think that was a talking point,
Speaker 1: probably given to them at the church. That's how they
Speaker 1: should handle it, as if that would then be a
Speaker 1: completely closed door exactly. This reminds me of a moment
Speaker 1: in my own story where I went to see this
Speaker 1: eighty something you're old rabbi who knew my family knew
Speaker 1: my dad told him the whole story of what I
Speaker 1: knew at that point, and he just turned to me
Speaker 1: and he said, what story would ease your heart? And
Speaker 1: I said, the true one, and he just looked at
Speaker 1: me and he said, you'll never know. And I remember thinking,
Speaker 1: you don't know who you're dealing with. And I don't
Speaker 1: think they knew who they're dealing with here. So the
Speaker 1: Graham's shut you down, and you have the editor or
Speaker 1: you know, some some kind of lead, right and interesting case.
Speaker 1: You're not a journalist, but you you sounds like you've
Speaker 1: become one. I have. So, so I called the number
Speaker 1: and I asked an appointment to see the editor. And
Speaker 1: I just mentioned that my family was friendly with the
Speaker 1: father Sullivan and Buffalo years ago, and I just you know,
Speaker 1: they're always talked about him. I just want to come
Speaker 1: up and just see what he knew about him. So
Speaker 1: UM made the appointment and he when it made the appoinment,
Speaker 1: he said, we'll call us a couple of days before,
Speaker 1: just to reconfirm. So when I reconfirmed, he was had
Speaker 1: a different attitude. He was kind of saying, well, we're
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to go to lunch and I
Speaker 1: can only meet you at ten o'clock. And he knows
Speaker 1: I live in oys debate and before and a half
Speaker 1: hour drive to Tewkesbury, so to be a very short mean,
Speaker 1: he was trying to discourage me. I said, well, I'll
Speaker 1: be there. Father. When it comes to secrets, timing is everything.
Speaker 1: What if Jim's uncle Otto had let slip his long
Speaker 1: held knowledge that Jim was the secret child of Father
Speaker 1: Tom Sullivan while Father Sullivan was still living. What do
Speaker 1: you suppose would have happened then? Or did that slip
Speaker 1: happen only because Uncle Otto and Aunt Catherine knew that
Speaker 1: the priest was dead. There's no way of knowing, But
Speaker 1: I do find the timing interesting, especially since Father Tom
Speaker 1: Sullivan had only died a few months earlier. We stayed
Speaker 1: with friends in Branford, Connecticut, the night before, and then
Speaker 1: we drove up the next morning and my wife was
Speaker 1: with me, and we met Father ready, and uh, he
Speaker 1: was very businesslike, and I just kind of felt uncomfortable
Speaker 1: that I'm not going to get much out of this
Speaker 1: this meeting. But he asked him about a father Selvan,
Speaker 1: and he said he was a great orator, he was
Speaker 1: a great reader. He's a writer, he was an academic.
Speaker 1: Or the other priests up here they might be watching
Speaker 1: the Boston Red Sox. You know, he was always walking
Speaker 1: the halls and reading a time magazine or something for
Speaker 1: the Jesuits. So he said nice things about him, and
Speaker 1: then I said, are there any personal effects that he
Speaker 1: might have that are still here? And he said, we're
Speaker 1: all old, we don't we don't keep things, so there's
Speaker 1: there's nothing here to show you. And he said that
Speaker 1: there wouldn't be any reason for you to talk to
Speaker 1: any other priests about him either, So he was just,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to move the meeting along. And um
Speaker 1: I asked if he had any relatives that might be alive,
Speaker 1: and he said, he's from Lowell, but I don't I
Speaker 1: don't think there's anybody alive. I don't recall anybody coming
Speaker 1: to see him when he was in the infirmary, and
Speaker 1: so I knew I wasn't getting any farther with him,
Speaker 1: so I gave my business card and I looked at
Speaker 1: him closely in the eyes, with a little bit of
Speaker 1: a smile, and I said, you know, Father Ready, if
Speaker 1: there's something you didn't tell me here today, and you
Speaker 1: think you should, please give me a call. Once they're
Speaker 1: back in the car driving away from the church, Jim's wife,
Speaker 1: Melody asks him why he didn't tell Father Ready that
Speaker 1: he's Tom Sullivan's son, but Jim just didn't feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: He wasn't the right one. He says, there'll be another one.
Speaker 1: They start heading home. On the next exit after Tewkesbury
Speaker 1: is Lowell, which is where Jim has just learned his
Speaker 1: father is from. So they pull off the exit. I
Speaker 1: told you Jim as a born journalist, either that or
Speaker 1: private eye. They go to the first church and ask
Speaker 1: if anyone knew of a father Sullivan in town and
Speaker 1: his fate would have it. The first person he asks
Speaker 1: does know of father Sullivan, And so Jim and Melody
Speaker 1: are directed to the Immaculate Conception Church. It was March
Speaker 1: and there was snow in the ground, about a foot
Speaker 1: of snow on the ground, but the sun was out
Speaker 1: brilliant to its beautiful, beautiful day. So we drove to
Speaker 1: the rectory and walked in and there was a secretary there,
Speaker 1: and he asked if Father's savage his name was mentioned,
Speaker 1: if he was available, and she said he's around here
Speaker 1: in someplace. So she called a couple of numbers, and
Speaker 1: while she was doing that, at the door behind us
Speaker 1: and I could just see a silhouette because there was
Speaker 1: a son and the snow in the background, it could
Speaker 1: just see a silver an older priest with a hat
Speaker 1: and a cape. And as he came close to me
Speaker 1: then I could see his face, but very irish looking.
Speaker 1: And the secretary said, this family is just looking to
Speaker 1: hear know a little bit more about a father Sullivan.
Speaker 1: And so he took us into a little anti room
Speaker 1: right off the dusk from the secretary, and he said
Speaker 1: basically the same thing as father. Ready. You know fatherrself
Speaker 1: was great order, he's a writer's readers want and so forth.
Speaker 1: He could you give a powerful sermon? And then I said,
Speaker 1: out there any relatives left? And he said, let's go
Speaker 1: out and ask the secretary. So we went out there
Speaker 1: and she said, no, I think they're all dead. Y
Speaker 1: all came here, was saying the choir. He had his mother,
Speaker 1: three ants, and his uncle. They would come here with
Speaker 1: his Sunday in a big black put But I think
Speaker 1: they're all dead. And then he said to my wife,
Speaker 1: he said there was a buffalo connection though, and you
Speaker 1: might be interested in would you like to hear about that?
Speaker 1: We said sure, so we walked on a longer hall.
Speaker 1: He sat down behind a large desk like a bishop's desk.
Speaker 1: We said on the other side, and he pointed up
Speaker 1: my wife for you an attorney, and she said no.
Speaker 1: He pointed at me, our u an attorney. I said no.
Speaker 1: So I said to him, then you know, Father, He said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. I said, how do you know? He said,
Speaker 1: you looked just like At the end of their conversation,
Speaker 1: Father Savage suggests to Jim that he'd just got on
Speaker 1: with the rest of his life. He's still relatively young,
Speaker 1: he has good genes. Father Savage actually tells him this,
Speaker 1: and then he says, forget the injustices of the past.
Speaker 1: Forgetting the injustices of the past, especially when those injustices
Speaker 1: have shaped your entire life, well that's just not going
Speaker 1: to happen. Jim comes back to visit Father Savage about
Speaker 1: a month and a half later. This time he comes
Speaker 1: alone and unannounced. Jim and Father Savage sit around a
Speaker 1: small round table, and Jim asks for details. He had
Speaker 1: heard that money had been put aside for his education.
Speaker 1: He wondered where that money went, since certainly it had
Speaker 1: never been used for that purpose, and Father Savage he
Speaker 1: denies ever having told Jim anything about his father flat
Speaker 1: out lies about it, even though I'm not really up
Speaker 1: on my Catholic doctrine, I've got to assume that lying
Speaker 1: is considered a sin. And Jim is pretty sure that
Speaker 1: whoever a Father's savages bosses told him to shut it down,
Speaker 1: that if Jim came back, they should deny everything. It's
Speaker 1: kind of natural that they're gonna not tell me what
Speaker 1: really would happen, just like a caught him off guard
Speaker 1: that day. So Jim begins to knock on doors, lots
Speaker 1: of doors. He does research on the opelite world and
Speaker 1: finds classmates of his father's. They all referred to him
Speaker 1: as father Tom Sullivan, not your father. They're well trained, careful.
Speaker 1: Jim also follows the money trail. He's able to read
Speaker 1: the wills of father Sullivan's immediate family. They were an
Speaker 1: affluent family who owned real estate and lowell, but since
Speaker 1: father Sullivan had taken a vow of poverty, he couldn't
Speaker 1: receive the assets. And just to be clear, it isn't money.
Speaker 1: Jim is after. It's information, it's history, it's justice. But
Speaker 1: like a good detective, he's following the money because the
Speaker 1: money might just get him there. Jim eventually discovers the
Speaker 1: woman who ended up air to the Sullivan assets. She
Speaker 1: was a nurse who had taken care of Thomas Sullivan's
Speaker 1: mother and aunts when they fell ill, and in the
Speaker 1: absence of any other heirs, they left the money to her.
Speaker 1: He drives to her house and knocks on the front door.
Speaker 1: She lets him in, almost as if she had been
Speaker 1: waiting for him. So um again, I set him out
Speaker 1: here for the assets. I'm here for the information. And
Speaker 1: there must have been somebody that knew my father's story,
Speaker 1: knew about me. There had to be somebody, and she
Speaker 1: said him, it's funny you should ask. There was a
Speaker 1: nun that would come here with him every now and then,
Speaker 1: and they were very close, and she gave me the
Speaker 1: name sister Mary. Uh So, when I got back to
Speaker 1: New York the next day, I got on the phone
Speaker 1: and I called up the order that she was with.
Speaker 1: Jim is able to track down sister Mary, and he
Speaker 1: and Melody make yet another drive to New England, this
Speaker 1: time to Boston to take her out to dinner. My
Speaker 1: wife said, what are you going to ask her first?
Speaker 1: When you see her at the door, and they s
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask her if I remind her of anybody.
Speaker 1: I rang the doorbell, and I could hear the steps
Speaker 1: coming down to the landing, and she opened the window,
Speaker 1: opened the glass door, and they said, sister, do I
Speaker 1: remind you of anybody? And she just shrugged her shoulders.
Speaker 1: I'll be right back. So she walked up the stairs
Speaker 1: very slowly, came back down. And now she had a
Speaker 1: bag that she was carrying with her and ad didn't
Speaker 1: to a purse. And we drove to the restaurant. Was
Speaker 1: very quiet in the car and we I asked for
Speaker 1: a table in the corner, which was so we would
Speaker 1: be out of the way of the traffic and noise.
Speaker 1: And we're sitting down there. It's very awkward. Not much
Speaker 1: as being said. And she says, the mission state in
Speaker 1: my orders to tell the truth, and that's what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do today. So she said, I read about you
Speaker 1: in your father's journal, and she was the first one
Speaker 1: to use the term your father. She said he was
Speaker 1: going through an operation and he thought you might not
Speaker 1: get out of it. So he said, here's the keys
Speaker 1: to my desk of a journal there and you can
Speaker 1: read it, but destroyed after you read it. So she said,
Speaker 1: that's right. I learned about you. And she told me
Speaker 1: again great things about my father's relationship that they had.
Speaker 1: So we we had a very emotional meeting. She kept
Speaker 1: looking at my hands. She just was seeing the similarities
Speaker 1: between you and your father. So after that, I won't
Speaker 1: be able to read this video. Can she usubmit this card?
Speaker 1: Jim hands me a card with a big heart and
Speaker 1: a smiley face on it that looks like it's just
Speaker 1: bursting with joy. On the inside of the card, it says,
Speaker 1: you put a smile in my heart. Thanks so much.
Speaker 1: Just beautiful handwriting. Can I read it aloud? Okay, Dear Jim,
Speaker 1: your letter and the picture came today. I can hardly
Speaker 1: find the words to tell you what is in my heart.
Speaker 1: Ever since Saturday, all I can see is your beautiful,
Speaker 1: smiling face when I opened to the door. You have
Speaker 1: no idea how you affected me. You are the very
Speaker 1: image of your father. As I told you, I was
Speaker 1: in the hospital when he died. I never really grieved
Speaker 1: until I saw you. After you and Melody left, and
Speaker 1: I didn't want you to leave. I had a good
Speaker 1: cry Monday. I cried all the way home from work.
Speaker 1: It was so kind of Melody to call me from Connecticut.
Speaker 1: Someday I'll explain it all more fully to you. When
Speaker 1: you told me your story, you're suffering ached in my heart.
Speaker 1: I hope your struggle with the pain of unknowing is
Speaker 1: eased a bit after forty years of silence. I felt relieved.
Speaker 1: The diaries started with the novitt How do you say
Speaker 1: that word? How jewish? Girl? The diaries started with the
Speaker 1: novitiate day is poignant and painful, but even more so
Speaker 1: after you were born Today. I worked on the history
Speaker 1: even before your letter came. I went to the po
Speaker 1: to mail a tape Doctor Maureen made for me. The
Speaker 1: homily will interest you. I don't want to be a pest,
Speaker 1: so if I am, just shut me off. If you can,
Speaker 1: love and prayers um and it signed sister sister. Well
Speaker 1: this made me cry. What an extraordinary woman still alive today.
Speaker 1: We're going to pause for a moment for a word
Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Jim's research takes him to the archives
Speaker 1: of the Obelite's Order in Washington, d C. Where he
Speaker 1: meets a father O'Donnell from Buffalo. O'donnald is the first,
Speaker 1: and it should be said, the only priest who shows
Speaker 1: Jim kindness and compassion. Father O'Donnell gives Jim access to
Speaker 1: the archives and then they go up to the cafeteria
Speaker 1: for lunch. He introduced me as father Sullivan's nephew. I
Speaker 1: never mentioned I was related to father Sullivan, but I
Speaker 1: knew what he was doing because Father Savage said, you
Speaker 1: looked just like him, and these older priests were probably
Speaker 1: my father's agent, probably knew him. So I think he
Speaker 1: just did that to kind of cover himself. Uh. So
Speaker 1: we went downstairs later to the archives again, there weren't
Speaker 1: he priests around, and I said, Father Donald liked to
Speaker 1: tell you something. I'm not a father Sullivan's nephew. I'm
Speaker 1: his son. So with that there was no change of expression.
Speaker 1: And he reached in his head of Eisenhower jacket on
Speaker 1: and he had something um documents and there in a
Speaker 1: pouch and he gave them to me and he said,
Speaker 1: these are are documents, uh that you may want to have.
Speaker 1: And there was somewhere written in the Latin, some written
Speaker 1: in English. I'm going to give you these, and there
Speaker 1: are others that were purged. The documents that he gave
Speaker 1: me talked about Father Selvan having a relationship with a woman.
Speaker 1: Didn't mention her name but a woman. So later during
Speaker 1: that conversation, we're in his office and uh, I saw
Speaker 1: a rack shelf and there are a lot of crucifix
Speaker 1: is just kind of on piles, just laying there, and
Speaker 1: I said, um, what are those? And he said, well,
Speaker 1: some of the families don't come back and get the
Speaker 1: personal effects of the priests that passed away, so there's
Speaker 1: some crucifixes left over from those that are deceased. But
Speaker 1: he said, if you want to go through them and
Speaker 1: find one that says a T. S. Slivan on it,
Speaker 1: you can have it. That's so I did. I think
Speaker 1: about the way it must have been back in the
Speaker 1: mid when Tom Sullivan and Jim's mother first met. Jim
Speaker 1: described his mom as tall, a redhead, pretty. She was
Speaker 1: always beautifully dressed and had a friendly way about her,
Speaker 1: smiling all the time. There were more women than men
Speaker 1: at home back in Buffalo during World War Two, the
Speaker 1: men were away and the women were around building aircrafts.
Speaker 1: In Lackawanna, New York, Jim's mom liked parties. She was
Speaker 1: famous for throwing Friday night parties once a month, and
Speaker 1: so she invited priests and professors from the local seminary
Speaker 1: to fill in for the absent husbands. They'd come over
Speaker 1: and grill steaks and have cocktails. The parties were wild,
Speaker 1: fueled by the pent up tensions of the time. It's
Speaker 1: easy enough to imagine the way the young priest and
Speaker 1: the young housewife might have fallen for each other and
Speaker 1: decided to run off and make a new life. So
Speaker 1: at this point, you know, right, you know, um, you
Speaker 1: know who your father was. So then what happens? I
Speaker 1: wrote home where the Order is headquartered? And I waited
Speaker 1: till I could see that the head of the Order,
Speaker 1: they called him the General Superior, was from Buffalo. He
Speaker 1: was installed, so I figured he speaks English. Formerly there
Speaker 1: was I think an Italian Superior General, and I thought
Speaker 1: it might be awkward to send him a letter. He
Speaker 1: may not, you know, read it the same way I didn't.
Speaker 1: And knowing that this man was from Buffalo, he would
Speaker 1: know some of the priests that I had dealt with.
Speaker 1: So I sent him a letter to say that a
Speaker 1: very respectful um that you know I met with these
Speaker 1: various priests, and um, I believe in Father Sullivan's son.
Speaker 1: They gave me some backgrounds of Father Sullivan. They never
Speaker 1: said your father, but I'd like the church that confirmed
Speaker 1: that he is my father. So I got a letter
Speaker 1: back about two weeks later, just a short one, probably
Speaker 1: prepared by a cannon lawyer, basically said, we have no
Speaker 1: records of father Sullivan, father and a child. So I
Speaker 1: wrote another letter to the same superior general, gave him
Speaker 1: more detail about my research. Very respectful again, but I
Speaker 1: just said that you know, I know I have filed
Speaker 1: from files from father. O'donaldy said of the war a
Speaker 1: perch um. But you must have still have those records
Speaker 1: to know about those those those records. Because you're from Buffalo,
Speaker 1: you know the same people id you and this is
Speaker 1: your chance when you you became a preacher, I having
Speaker 1: never realized you'd be a leader of the major order,
Speaker 1: but this is your chance to do something vadic like
Speaker 1: there's that Vatican true, to be transparent, to be truthful
Speaker 1: kind of letter back basically the same thing from a
Speaker 1: candle lawyer and we have no records. Were you at
Speaker 1: that point feeling like now I've got a closed door. Yes,
Speaker 1: And if you go to Rome and you get those responses,
Speaker 1: you know twice. How did you feel about this superior
Speaker 1: general who then who wrote back to you twice with
Speaker 1: the boiler plate response. I just I just felt that
Speaker 1: it's hard to believe um that they resist, you know
Speaker 1: so strongly, you know, when you pour your heart out
Speaker 1: in the letter, and he knows all the people that
Speaker 1: I met with, it's just hard to believe that there
Speaker 1: they're going to stone value that way. It's reality was reality.
Speaker 1: So at that point, did you feel like dead end?
Speaker 1: I was just thinking, you know, what's my next move?
Speaker 1: And I didn't give up. A friend of Jim's tells
Speaker 1: him to go see the Academy Award winning movies Spotlight,
Speaker 1: in which a team of reporters at the Boston Globe
Speaker 1: uncovers a horrifying pattern of sexual abuse in the Archdiocese
Speaker 1: of Boston. Jim knows he needs help now. He writes
Speaker 1: to the reporter, Mike Rosendez, and hear's back from him
Speaker 1: within hours. Rasendez begins working on a story not just
Speaker 1: about Jim's case, but about a series of secret children
Speaker 1: of Catholic priests, an article that ends up on the
Speaker 1: front page of the Boston Globe. There's nothing like a
Speaker 1: front page story in a national newspaper to make people
Speaker 1: who haven't wanted to pay attention. Suddenly pay attention. Jim
Speaker 1: is supposed to meet with Boston Cardinal Shawn O'Malley, but
Speaker 1: at the last minute, Jim is invited to the meeting. Still,
Speaker 1: the cardinal promises to call the leader of the Obelite's
Speaker 1: Order in the United States and let him speak with
Speaker 1: Jim and find a resolution. Finally, it seems that there's
Speaker 1: light for Jim. At the end of a very long
Speaker 1: and dark tunnel. I got a call from a father's studard.
Speaker 1: And the first thing he said to me, he said,
Speaker 1: you know, cardinal'malley asked me to call you. And when
Speaker 1: I was installed last year as the head of the order, here, ah,
Speaker 1: I heard about this thing lingering out here, your story,
Speaker 1: this thing lingering after that's way phrases, And he said,
Speaker 1: you may think your father's sold him's son, but you
Speaker 1: can't prove it right away. And he repeated that he
Speaker 1: badgered me. There was nothing pastoral about the conversation. So
Speaker 1: I told him about you know, some of the interviews
Speaker 1: I had with other priests said you looked just like
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. But he then he
Speaker 1: followed up, what you can't prove it and so when
Speaker 1: you call Father Dan donnal, he gave me my father's crucifix.
Speaker 1: I believe he thinks and Father's Sullivan's son. Never said so,
Speaker 1: but I believe that you think so. He said, he
Speaker 1: can't prove it. I said, just call him. He hung
Speaker 1: up at me, and he did call him. He called
Speaker 1: me back about an hour later, said, I apologize for
Speaker 1: hanging up in you. He said, I spoke to Father o'donald.
Speaker 1: He does believe your father Sullivan's son, but you can't
Speaker 1: prove it. And he can't prove it. And here's where
Speaker 1: Jim's extraordinary tenacity and doggedness, that sense of you don't
Speaker 1: know who you're dealing with, comes in. He sends a
Speaker 1: letter to Father Studhar and says there is one way
Speaker 1: to prove that Father Sullivan is his father, if the
Speaker 1: church allows him to exhume the body. And I thought
Speaker 1: about doing this before in the past, but I thought
Speaker 1: it would be just grandstanding because they're never gonna let
Speaker 1: me do that. Two weeks later, I get a letter
Speaker 1: from them. They said, you can do that if you
Speaker 1: do it at your own expense and no photographs are taken.
Speaker 1: There's no press on the property. I just couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that they gave you permission to
Speaker 1: do that? I think it was a poker game, and
Speaker 1: they're just going to offer Jim Graham something so they
Speaker 1: can at least say that, you know, they're they're open
Speaker 1: to it. But I never thought I don't think they
Speaker 1: ever thought I would do it. It wasn't an easy
Speaker 1: thing to do. Did you pretty much know from that
Speaker 1: moment that you received the permission to do it, that
Speaker 1: you would do it? Or was I said I had
Speaker 1: to do it. You know, it's a poker game, so
Speaker 1: you have to you have to follow through. But I
Speaker 1: wasn't expecting to get that kind of a letter, and I,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not a process that that I wanted
Speaker 1: to go through because because I already know he's my father,
Speaker 1: but at this point I have to prove it to
Speaker 1: the church. So were you actually present when he was exhumed?
Speaker 1: We were supposed to be present by the terms that
Speaker 1: I had asked for. But what happened at the last
Speaker 1: second is where at the cemetery that morning and I'm
Speaker 1: walking up the hill to where my father's a grave
Speaker 1: is at the two Experience Private cemetery and we're walking
Speaker 1: with the forensic anthropologist who is going to be doing
Speaker 1: the work. There was a big blue tarp covering the
Speaker 1: area and there was a back home. We could see
Speaker 1: the top of the bacco was sticking up from the
Speaker 1: blue tarp. And the administrator for the obelized not a priest,
Speaker 1: came down and he said that I know you wanted
Speaker 1: to be grave side, but the excavators won't let you
Speaker 1: do that. That's in their policy. They don't want family
Speaker 1: sitting in grave side when they're digging a grave. Anything
Speaker 1: could happen. It could be a wooden casket we didn't know,
Speaker 1: and it might collapse, and they didn't want families, you know,
Speaker 1: seeing that kind of a situation. So I said, I
Speaker 1: have no problem with that. So I just said a
Speaker 1: hundred yards away in a park bench with my wife
Speaker 1: while the exclamation was going on. He was supposed to
Speaker 1: take about an hour and a half, but a lot
Speaker 1: of things went wrong. It took over three hours. It
Speaker 1: was a hot human day. Um, it was a difficult day.
Speaker 1: As the anthropologist came down the hill after she did
Speaker 1: her work. Her name is Dr Henry Myers from Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: renowned up there for the work that she does. She
Speaker 1: had a big smile on her face and she said,
Speaker 1: I saw in the photographs of your father that you
Speaker 1: gave me. That's your father, because he's pretty well reserved
Speaker 1: after twenty five years. So we sent the d n
Speaker 1: A specimens off to a high profile lab that does
Speaker 1: f b I work in the Washington, d C. Area.
Speaker 1: Took over over two months aget the results. But the
Speaker 1: results were ninety nine point nine and I'm his son.
Speaker 1: How did that feel getting that tangible result? Actually we
Speaker 1: did it up in Massachusetts, and uh, I was with
Speaker 1: the anthropologists. I didn't want her to tell me on
Speaker 1: the phone, so I drove up there and I wanted
Speaker 1: to tell me a person. And it was emotional. I
Speaker 1: didn't think it would be because I knew it was
Speaker 1: going to be, but it was still emotional. I find
Speaker 1: a pretty extraordinary to that. You know that as a
Speaker 1: forensic anthropologist, her job is to look at the d NA,
Speaker 1: right and that when she came from the grave site
Speaker 1: and then she had that smile on her face. She
Speaker 1: was saying to you, that's your father, which is so unscientific.
Speaker 1: She wasn't going to look at DNA to be the
Speaker 1: only thing speaking. So what was the response of the
Speaker 1: Catholic Church once faced with the absolute evidence proof that
Speaker 1: you were indeed Father Sullivan's son. Silence? I never heard
Speaker 1: of them because they knew. What can they say? I
Speaker 1: asked Jim about peace, about closure? What does it feel
Speaker 1: like to have been able to put all the pieces
Speaker 1: of his childhood together until they make sense, even if
Speaker 1: it's a kind of painful sense. And what of Father Sullivan,
Speaker 1: Jim's father? What must it have been like to have
Speaker 1: given up a child? I think the piece I have
Speaker 1: is that I followed through. I didn't give up. I
Speaker 1: still liked him to say, to confess to what they
Speaker 1: did to us in the four niece. When they separated us,
Speaker 1: they took my father back into the to the order,
Speaker 1: and he was spent sixteen years in Essex, New York,
Speaker 1: in a camp, rehabilitation camp that the Outlites had for
Speaker 1: wayward priests. Sixteen years in a camp, a rehabilitation camp
Speaker 1: for wayward priests. What was the church trying to rehabilitate
Speaker 1: in Tom Sullivan? What exactly was so wrong with falling
Speaker 1: in love with a woman having a child with her?
Speaker 1: I know, I know divorce was rare in those days,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't impossible. Why was it so essential to
Speaker 1: the church to break this man's spirit and to separate
Speaker 1: him from his son. They took me from my mother's
Speaker 1: custody and put me in John Graham's family to look
Speaker 1: like John Graham's son. John Graham lied in a a
Speaker 1: deposition in an action for divorce between my mother and him.
Speaker 1: When the judge said, is at your son? He said, yes,
Speaker 1: so it is very well organized the scheme, the conspiracy
Speaker 1: back in ninety seven to ensure that I would never
Speaker 1: know my father as a priest. When you think of
Speaker 1: the idea that you would never have known, are you
Speaker 1: glad you know? Oh, definitely, because it sells all those mysteries.
Speaker 1: Earlier in our conversation, when Jim and I were sitting
Speaker 1: across from each other in the small sound proof recording
Speaker 1: studio in Atlanta, he reached into his briefcase and pulled
Speaker 1: out a crucifix, inching it across the table. It was
Speaker 1: bronze and black, heavy in the hand, with the lettering T. S.
Speaker 1: Sullivan there. It was an heirloom, a birthright, a piece
Speaker 1: of evidence. That's extraordinary. What did that feel like finding
Speaker 1: that it's like, it's like a part of it. I'd
Speaker 1: like to thank my guest Jim Graham for sharing his
Speaker 1: family secret and recounting his twenty five year journey to
Speaker 1: revealing the truth. You can find out more about his
Speaker 1: story on his Twitter account at Jim Graham, That's Jim
Speaker 1: Graham and then the numbers four or five. Family Secrets
Speaker 1: is an iHeart Media production. Dylan Fagan is a supervising producer,
Speaker 1: Andrew Howard and Tristan McNeil are the audio engineers, and
Speaker 1: Julie Douglas is the executive producer. If you have a
Speaker 1: family secret you'd like to share, you can get in
Speaker 1: touch with us at listener mail at Family Secrets Podcast
Speaker 1: dot com, and you can also find us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Danny Writer, and Facebook at Family Secrets Pod, and
Speaker 1: Twitter at fam Secrets Pot ats fam Secrets Pot. For
Speaker 1: more about my book Inheritance, visit Danny Shapiro dot com