Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of
Speaker 1: where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: Live from New York.
Speaker 3: I'm Caroline Hyde and I'm Jackie Devalas in Washington. This
Speaker 3: is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4: We get straight to the markets because we currently see
Speaker 4: a market that braces for possible changes.
Speaker 2: Jackie to the tariffs on Canada and Mexico.
Speaker 4: All of this is being suggested by Commas Secretary Howard
Speaker 4: Lutnik in a Bloomberg interview with Bloomberg Television. We are
Speaker 4: basically being bounced around by the latest headlines. We have
Speaker 4: got so much to debate when it comes to the market.
Speaker 4: D Anidy, the earnings with CrowdStrike looking worse than the
Speaker 4: market had braced for and CrowdStrike currently trading off significantly
Speaker 4: by some eight percent, off as much as twelve percent
Speaker 4: at one point, as once again that hit to the
Speaker 4: entire global breakdown in software that we saw back in
Speaker 4: last summer. Shares still having an effect as we saw
Speaker 4: worse than expected earnings outlook for this company.
Speaker 2: Let's stick into all of this with Bluebergs Isabelle Lee.
Speaker 4: Because we have whiplash on our hands, whether or not
Speaker 4: it's about the latest amount announcement for semiconductor support here
Speaker 4: in the United States, whether it's whiplash ultimately, and whether
Speaker 4: we will have tariffs remain in force or not.
Speaker 2: How does the market digest this moment.
Speaker 5: I think that's why they're confused. Markets have been se
Speaker 5: signed between gains and losses. Before I came here, I
Speaker 5: had a script on in my head that stucks rallying
Speaker 5: because of the ISSM beat. But there now as I'm
Speaker 5: sitting here, they're actually edging lower. It's been a wild ride,
Speaker 5: and options traders really predict more volatility to come. And
Speaker 5: on Friday we have the big payrolls data that's also
Speaker 5: going to add to volatility. We have options traders predicting
Speaker 5: a move of one point two percent in either direction,
Speaker 5: and that's pretty significant. So it's really just if you
Speaker 5: take a step back, investors are on edge. Even for
Speaker 5: us on the terminal, you have headlines after headlines. You
Speaker 5: just really don't know what to expect. Some people argue
Speaker 5: that it's too much of a data driven market, but
Speaker 5: remains to be seen Isabelle.
Speaker 3: We're expecting some kind of guidance from Howard Lutnik later
Speaker 3: this afternoon. What subsectors within tech should we be on.
Speaker 6: The lookout for.
Speaker 5: There's automakers, there's also chip makers. But the thing is
Speaker 5: tyres itself isn't really bad. We have many analysts telling
Speaker 5: us that it's Tarris Priss lingering, growth spheres, press, the
Speaker 5: prospects of the FED keeping interest rates higher, plus the
Speaker 5: higher stock valuations. Then if you have all of that,
Speaker 5: you question whether the markets should be this high. But
Speaker 5: other than that, even in Asia we have Asian equities rallying.
Speaker 5: We have German stocks really in question after that really
Speaker 5: big stimulus that they're injecting.
Speaker 2: So all in all, we have recession probabilities rising.
Speaker 5: We have a JP Morgan implied probability of economic downturn
Speaker 5: rising through thirty one percent on Thursday. That's up from
Speaker 5: set eighteen percent at the end of November. So now
Speaker 5: again we have a lot of investors predicting their own
Speaker 5: models of recession. But it's really just a tough market
Speaker 5: to digest.
Speaker 4: It's a tough market global market for companies trying to sell.
Speaker 4: At the moment, I think of Tesla once again dropping lower.
Speaker 2: We saw China weakness.
Speaker 4: Yesterday in terms of the data, you saw it in France,
Speaker 4: and then the latest chew to drop is Germany. I mean,
Speaker 4: Elon Musk, is this his brand or is it ultimately
Speaker 4: about what's happening in terms of curtailing some of their
Speaker 4: output some of their production.
Speaker 5: I think it could be both, because Tesla registration plummeted
Speaker 5: in Germany last month, and a part of that is
Speaker 5: Elon Musk and his politicking. But then a part of
Speaker 5: that is also just really the car makers suspending out plants.
Speaker 5: If it's model why yeah, and then they have a
Speaker 5: factor outside of Berlin and that will lose out to
Speaker 5: several projections. I feel like it's just really the perfect
Speaker 5: storm or the perfect cocktail, everything moving together. But yes,
Speaker 5: every headline in every part of the world is really
Speaker 5: something to watch out for.
Speaker 4: Public investors are trying to dicer in it. So a
Speaker 4: private investors is across the tape when it comes to
Speaker 4: what's happening in the public markets. But let's get back
Speaker 4: to what leaders are talking about.
Speaker 2: In the private markets too.
Speaker 4: We've had Bloomberg business leaders across the board at the
Speaker 4: invest conference that we're hosting today in New York City.
Speaker 4: I did today. I spoke with Iconic Capital founder Michael Anders,
Speaker 4: and we began with the changes in consumer sentiment at
Speaker 4: this moment in reaction to tariff threats and also the
Speaker 4: impact on AI.
Speaker 2: Take to listen, But.
Speaker 7: I think it's spending a lot of time with consumer
Speaker 7: CEOs lately. There is definitely an awareness that there's a
Speaker 7: sentiment shift. I think the consumer is beginning to start
Speaker 7: paying attention to the uncertainty in terms of, you know
Speaker 7: where tariffs are going to take us, And so I
Speaker 7: think that's a pause that people are feeling. From our standpoint,
Speaker 7: though we actually like this environment. It makes you do
Speaker 7: the work. And I think if you're you know, got
Speaker 7: the team, you've got the rigor, you've got the discipline,
Speaker 7: you've got the focus. And going back to what I
Speaker 7: said earlier, this is a moment where picking the winners
Speaker 7: is so critically important. And so I think right now,
Speaker 7: in this AI journey we're in, it's been a long road.
Speaker 7: I mean, AI has been around for decades.
Speaker 4: Does generative AI become more relevant at this moment where
Speaker 4: companies are worrying about predicting the future, making sure that
Speaker 4: they're profitable. Are they even more galvanized than to lean
Speaker 4: into this generative shift.
Speaker 7: I think in the last year or two, the awareness
Speaker 7: around jen AI has gotten everybody sort of to the
Speaker 7: point where they know it's critically important. But it is
Speaker 7: such a complicated and nuanced situation we're in right now
Speaker 7: that I think people are starting to really know the
Speaker 7: need they need to pay more attention, and I think
Speaker 7: it's less about the predictive nature of it. I think
Speaker 7: that's kind of where we've just come from, and now
Speaker 7: we've gone to where these machines are able to think,
Speaker 7: they're able to reason, and pretty soon they're going to
Speaker 7: be able to act. And I think the acting piece
Speaker 7: is what gets us very close to this agi moment
Speaker 7: where machines are all knowing.
Speaker 4: That was my candas of Iconic Capital, and Jackie such an.
Speaker 2: Important voice of this moment.
Speaker 4: They have bet on the past winners, They bet on
Speaker 4: the snowflakes, on the data dogs, on the ADI ends.
Speaker 4: They're now making big bets on the likes of data breaks.
Speaker 4: But they continue to invest in this moment even though
Speaker 4: we've got this tipping point that's worried about geopolitics. They
Speaker 4: like this environment where you're having to do more work,
Speaker 4: and I think my putting money where the mouth is
Speaker 4: assured insurance technologies. They just committed more money to that
Speaker 4: particular Jennai business just yesterday.
Speaker 6: That's right, Caroline.
Speaker 3: Not always the covered names are a little bit underappreciated
Speaker 3: and tech but crucial sectors to keep an eye on. Now,
Speaker 3: let's go to the Bloomberg invest Conference for a conversation
Speaker 3: with KKR co CEO Joebe along with Bloomberg's Shanali Basic.
Speaker 8: Across Mall Street, and we're going to get to some
Speaker 8: of the things underpinning those goals. But first we're going
Speaker 8: to start with a big view on where the world
Speaker 8: stands today. And as we've been talking about Joe, in
Speaker 8: the US, investors are trying to shake off that tariff
Speaker 8: hangover that exists right now. The markets have been very jittery,
Speaker 8: investors are digesting how these trade policies could be in
Speaker 8: the future. How do you view the impact from your seat?
Speaker 9: Sure, I think it's obvious to everybody that we're in
Speaker 9: an environment right now where there's a lot of uncertainty
Speaker 9: around trade tariffs, but it's not necessarily new. Even with
Speaker 9: the first Trump administration, he was focused on tariffs and trade.
Speaker 9: Biden kept most of those tariffs in place. So I
Speaker 9: think in our business, you know, we're very long term investors,
Speaker 9: we need to be thinking about these issues over time,
Speaker 9: not just in one administration. And what I'd say is,
Speaker 9: you know, we have teams at KKR who focus on
Speaker 9: all these areas of macro risk, whether that's currency, tariff
Speaker 9: and trade, geopolitical risk, regulatory risk in each of the
Speaker 9: different markets that we're investing in.
Speaker 6: I think this.
Speaker 9: Issue around supply chain security and resiliency, which relates to tariffs,
Speaker 9: is obviously front and center for all long term investors,
Speaker 9: but people are trying to parse through what this all means.
Speaker 9: The final policies are not in place, the actions of
Speaker 9: other countries and governments in reaction to what Trump may
Speaker 9: or may not do is still unknown, so it's very
Speaker 9: fluid at the moment, and I think that's obviously creating
Speaker 9: some uncertainty and volatility.
Speaker 8: You know, it's interesting in conversation with you, you had
Speaker 8: mentioned that this was a risk that you should have
Speaker 8: seen coming in a lot of ways. So from where
Speaker 8: I'm sitting, it looks like KKR has been preparing for
Speaker 8: this in a way that many investors have kind of
Speaker 8: very obviously have not been So what have you been
Speaker 8: doing to prepare for all of this uncertainty knowing that
Speaker 8: there's even more of it ahead.
Speaker 9: Yeah, So, I think we have over one hundred and
Speaker 9: fifty companies in our private equity portfolio around the world.
Speaker 9: Supply chain resiliency, multiple sourcing avenues for our companies has
Speaker 9: always been a part of the risk mitigation approach, and
Speaker 9: we've spent a lot of time really over the last
Speaker 9: five six seven years understanding that risk and mitigating that risk.
Speaker 9: And when it comes to new investments, I think a
Speaker 9: big part of our job thematically is understanding the risk
Speaker 9: environment we're in and choosing those themes and sectors and
Speaker 9: opportunities that really have less exposure to terrorf risk or
Speaker 9: trade risk. So maybe a couple of examples of that is,
Speaker 9: you know, healthcare services are very domestic, whether it's in
Speaker 9: the US, Europe, or Asia. You know, that's an area
Speaker 9: where we feel like the TERRFF risk at least is
Speaker 9: not a pronounced risk. You could look at certain services businesses.
Speaker 9: We've made a number of investments in companies like home Services, Foundation,
Speaker 9: Inspection maintenance companies in the US for an aging housing stock.
Speaker 9: You look at it services and software investments in different countries. Again,
Speaker 9: very little terrorf risk, so you're able to really zero
Speaker 9: in and target those industries and sectors where you don't
Speaker 9: think this is going to be a big problem.
Speaker 8: When you think about the ripple effects that you might
Speaker 8: see from the terror strategy. There are a lot of
Speaker 8: concerns about inflation, sure growth. How are you thinking about
Speaker 8: the economic headwinds that the US is facing Listen, I
Speaker 8: think that's.
Speaker 9: One of the big uncertainties out there that people are
Speaker 9: trying to figure out. Tariffs are inflationary by design, so
Speaker 9: I think if that leads to an escalated level of
Speaker 9: inflation in US economy, obviously that's going to slow GDP growth.
Speaker 9: It may put some pressure on the FED obviously in
Speaker 9: a more tough economic environment, to lower rates faster over time.
Speaker 9: But we've always felt that the bigger trends happening in
Speaker 9: the world, whether that's energy transition, the massive investments into data,
Speaker 9: a lot of these things are in inflationary by its nature.
Speaker 9: Putting aside tariffs, so we have a higher resting heart
Speaker 9: rate for inflation globally today. Than we've had in the
Speaker 9: last decade, and you expect that to continue and potentially
Speaker 9: even get higher inflation. Right, if these tariff and these
Speaker 9: trade wars continue, it's not an unreasonable expectation that in
Speaker 9: the near term you can see higher inflation.
Speaker 8: Well, it doesn't that mean higher rates or do you
Speaker 8: think that the FED is going to have to lower
Speaker 8: rates into the face of that. People are starting to
Speaker 8: use the words stagflation an awful lot these days.
Speaker 9: I think it's going to be different in different markets,
Speaker 9: and I think the FED is going to have to
Speaker 9: be very nimble in how they navigate this risk. Obviously,
Speaker 9: if the US is headed towards an economic downturn, cutting
Speaker 9: rates is probably going to be the policy response. If
Speaker 9: rates are high and we're not headed down that recession
Speaker 9: path or deceleration of growth path, then rates could actually
Speaker 9: go a little bit higher in the near term.
Speaker 8: So let's look at this from a global perspective as well.
Speaker 8: I think one unique view you can bring from KKR
Speaker 8: is that you are very global in nature. So you
Speaker 8: see the way that the changes are happening in the
Speaker 8: tariff strategy, the way that nations are kind of separating
Speaker 8: in their relationship to each other. You see that on
Speaker 8: the ground through your portfolio companies. What are than other
Speaker 8: areas of the worlds that are maybe even more attractive
Speaker 8: to you than the United States right now?
Speaker 9: Well, you know, I think it's not a secret. You
Speaker 9: had it up on the slide. We're big fans right
Speaker 9: now of Japan. We think that is a really really
Speaker 9: underpenetrated opportunity, especially among US investors. They really haven't figured
Speaker 9: out how to get the exposure they want in a
Speaker 9: market like Japan where they're coming out of two and
Speaker 9: a half decades of deflation. So finally positive wage growth,
Speaker 9: pricing power, inflation is very modest, but positive inflation right now,
Speaker 9: and rates are actually increasing modestly in Japan. That's a
Speaker 9: completely different macro picture than what we've seen in Japan
Speaker 9: for the last three decades, and a really exciting time
Speaker 9: when you marry that with shareholder reform, activism, activism, corporate
Speaker 9: governance reform in that market. Outside of the United States today,
Speaker 9: Japan is the largest destination of our capital.
Speaker 8: So it's interesting. In addition to Japan, KKR has maintained
Speaker 8: a commitment to China as well. In fact, there are
Speaker 8: big deals that are in the market that KKR may
Speaker 8: be involved with at this very moment. So a lot
Speaker 8: of other investors are very worried about China, the internal
Speaker 8: economics and the relationship that China has to the United States. Yeah,
Speaker 8: how do you view that dynamic?
Speaker 9: Yeah, listen, I think the geopolitical tensions right now obviously
Speaker 9: are front and center for US as we think about
Speaker 9: where to invest in how to invest and in China
Speaker 9: in particular, you have to avoid those sectors that have
Speaker 9: sensitivity on both sides of the ocean, both the US
Speaker 9: government and the Chinese government. So we have not invested
Speaker 9: in some of these sensitive sectors like electric vehicles or
Speaker 9: semiconductors or AI. That's not the focus of our China
Speaker 9: investment strategy. We're really focusing on super high quality domestic
Speaker 9: businesses that are around domestic consumption and services. So we
Speaker 9: in our portfolio today we have one of the largest
Speaker 9: or the largest Chinese pet food company, again geopolitically not sensitive.
Speaker 9: We own one of the largest pharmacy chains in China.
Speaker 9: We own the largest white mushroom grower in China, all
Speaker 9: geared towards the domestic market, a growing middle class who
Speaker 9: wants higher quality goods and services and food, and I
Speaker 9: think that's the sweet spot of where we're focused to
Speaker 9: the market today.
Speaker 8: That's interesting because even if you're focused on the Chinese consumer,
Speaker 8: that might be a little more insulated to let's say,
Speaker 8: the global macro challenges. There are a lot of concerns
Speaker 8: about the Chinese economy. Why are you seeing through them?
Speaker 9: Yeah, listen, I think the overall long term trend in
Speaker 9: China is the middle class is growing, and the expectations
Speaker 9: of the middle class are really for higher quality goods
Speaker 9: and services, safer food, safer services, and that's what these
Speaker 9: companies that we're investing behind are really catering towards. No doubt,
Speaker 9: the macro growth in China has slowed from a decade ago, right,
Speaker 9: you were talking about a country growing at double digits GDP.
Speaker 9: They're targeting four to five percent growth today, right, So
Speaker 9: there has been a slowdown. There's clearly challenges in terms
Speaker 9: of the real estate market in China, and you have
Speaker 9: to factor all that in in terms of the growth
Speaker 9: rate you're underwriting, and largely the entry multiple. You know,
Speaker 9: the Chinese stock market today is one of the most
Speaker 9: interesting value markets in the world in terms of multiples.
Speaker 9: So if you know what you're looking for the type
Speaker 9: of risk you're trying to mitigate against, you could still
Speaker 9: find some interesting opportunities.
Speaker 8: You know, yes day I asked the question, is American
Speaker 8: exceptionalism dead? In addition to that, I ask you, is
Speaker 8: globalization of diversification play? Is it a safety trade? How
Speaker 8: do you think about it?
Speaker 9: But we are a very very global firm, and we
Speaker 9: have a lot of different ways to participate in those opportunities.
Speaker 9: Private equity, real estate, private credit, and infrastructure. So in
Speaker 9: really volatile periods like we're in right now, having that
Speaker 9: flexibility of capital, we could partner with companies management teams
Speaker 9: as a provider of anything from senior and from grade
Speaker 9: debt right to non investment grade debt, to structured credit solutions,
Speaker 9: structured equity solutions, growth equity capital, to buy out capital.
Speaker 9: So you know, today it's an interesting market. When volatility spikes,
Speaker 9: that usually leads to really really interesting deployment opportunities for
Speaker 9: our firm. You need to be nimble, you need to
Speaker 9: have the local reach in all these different markets. But
Speaker 9: we're excited, quite frankly about twenty twenty five. They're going
Speaker 9: to be hiccups. There's going to be some headwinds in
Speaker 9: terms of some of these macro policies, but our ability
Speaker 9: to deploy scale capital around the world, we think is
Speaker 9: quite high.
Speaker 8: I will still ask you, if not dead, then is
Speaker 8: American exceptionalism then overblown?
Speaker 9: Now listen, I think this notion that the US is
Speaker 9: going to win alone has never been the case. I
Speaker 9: think the strength of the United States is really the
Speaker 9: resiliency of the economy, the strength of our capital markets
Speaker 9: to mobilize capitals to support companies in the private sector,
Speaker 9: and labor productivity. Right when you think about why the
Speaker 9: US has grown faster than Europe or faster than Japan,
Speaker 9: it's really about labor productivity in the United States. A
Speaker 9: lot of that is technology driven and innovation driven, but
Speaker 9: a lot of that is our unique mobility of labor
Speaker 9: in this country. You think about Japan, which is going
Speaker 9: through this resurgence. You know, structurally they've done the best
Speaker 9: job of any country in terms of women participation in
Speaker 9: the workforce, people working longer in Japan. Right, They've got
Speaker 9: real demographic challenges. They've done an excellent job around automation
Speaker 9: and robotics in their industrial base, but they're not getting
Speaker 9: the labor productivity because the mobility of labor in Japan
Speaker 9: is quite constrained, and their investment in software and tech
Speaker 9: is a fraction of what you see in the United States. Right,
Speaker 9: So the real superpower of the United States is labor productivity.
Speaker 8: At the end of the day, I do want to
Speaker 8: spend the remaining time here switching gears talking about the
Speaker 8: future of KKR, because it's been fascinating to watch the
Speaker 8: change from an iconic private equity company to.
Speaker 6: What you are today.
Speaker 8: There was the full acquisition of your insurance company last year,
Speaker 8: Global Atlantic, and it's made KKR look more and more
Speaker 8: like Berkshire Hathaway. And there's one part of your business
Speaker 8: that's far less understood that I think makes you look
Speaker 8: like the most like Berkshire Hathaway, and that's your strategic
Speaker 8: holding's business. Many people don't know that KKR owns eighteen
Speaker 8: companies on your own balance sheet at KKR, what is
Speaker 8: this business going to be in maybe ten years and
Speaker 8: why is it valuable to you? Sure?
Speaker 9: So when you think about KKR as a business, we
Speaker 9: really have three core strategic parts of our business. Strategy
Speaker 9: asset management, I think is well understood. That's what we're
Speaker 9: known for for the last fifty years. So that's our
Speaker 9: third party private equity again real estate and infrastructure of
Speaker 9: private credit business, and that's the six hundred and fifty
Speaker 9: billion dollar business that you mentioned at the start. The
Speaker 9: second big pill of our business today is Global Atlantic.
Speaker 9: It's one hundred percent owned insurance company in the life
Speaker 9: and annuity space, roughly one hundred and ninety billion dollars
Speaker 9: of AUM there and again playing into all of these
Speaker 9: trends around retirement savings, retirement security, and being able to
Speaker 9: offer individuals compelling products for their own long term savings.
Speaker 9: The third piece of it is a segment that we
Speaker 9: introduced last year at our investor Day, but it's been
Speaker 9: a segment we've been incubating for well over a decade
Speaker 9: now at KKR, and that's Strategic Holdings. So what we're
Speaker 9: trying to build in Strategic Holdings is in some ways
Speaker 9: a mini Berkshire Hathaway. These are companies where we own
Speaker 9: large stakes, sometimes controlling stakes, sometimes not, but businesses that
Speaker 9: we think we could own literally forever. Businesses that have
Speaker 9: the potential to compound in mid teens over a very
Speaker 9: very long period of time. Very defensive in nature, so
Speaker 9: we have eighteen companies in that portfolio today. We're going
Speaker 9: to continue to redeploy our free cash flow at KKR
Speaker 9: to invest in more of these types of businesses. And
Speaker 9: it's not just private equity. Over time, it's going to
Speaker 9: include certain platforms, probably in infrastructure and real assets, maybe
Speaker 9: certain build ups you know that we're going to do
Speaker 9: in different sectors. You know, when Scott Nuttell and I
Speaker 9: my co CEO, joined KKRE back in nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 9: Berkshire Hathaway had a market cap of forty billion dollars
Speaker 9: and roughly nav balance sheet of forty billion dollars. You
Speaker 9: fast forward twenty eight years, they have a trillion dollar
Speaker 9: market cap on the back of long term compounding of
Speaker 9: their balance sheet and their investments. Right, some version of
Speaker 9: that is what we're going to be doing with strategic holdings,
Speaker 9: but leveraging all of the skills and expertise we have
Speaker 9: in our private equity teams, our infrastructure teams around the world.
Speaker 8: So what's an interesting parallel here If you think about
Speaker 8: Berkshire Hathaway, is it almost like Global Atlantic is your
Speaker 8: own Geico, and these future infrastructure holdings will be your
Speaker 8: BNSF and your private equity holdings would be kind of
Speaker 8: like your stock portfolio.
Speaker 9: Yes, this imperfect anology, but directionally you are absolutely right.
Speaker 9: I think listen strategic holdings for us, you got to
Speaker 9: think about it as a way, how do we think
Speaker 9: about redeploying our free cash flow as a business back
Speaker 9: into the most attractive areas. Some of that might be
Speaker 9: in our traditional third party asset management business, right we
Speaker 9: find great ways to deploy capital across those investments, we'll
Speaker 9: deploy that capital. A lot of the capitals reinvested back
Speaker 9: into Global Atlantic. We acquired our first controlling stake in
Speaker 9: Global Atlantic in twenty twenty and GA at that time
Speaker 9: had around seventy billion dollars at AUM. Four years later
Speaker 9: it has one hundred and ninety billion dollars at AUM.
Speaker 9: So we've supported that growth with more investment. And then
Speaker 9: this third segment of strategic holdings, obviously, which is what
Speaker 9: we're super excited about, is one where we're going to
Speaker 9: be continuing to invest a lot more of our free
Speaker 9: cash flow as a business. So our guidance to the
Speaker 9: street today is by twenty twenty six that portfolio will
Speaker 9: be generating around three hundred and fifty plus million dollars
Speaker 9: after time dividends. For us, that's growing to seven hundred
Speaker 9: million dollars by twenty twenty eight and one point one
Speaker 9: billion dollars by twenty thirty. So it is a very
Speaker 9: very visible, recurring, growing cash flow stream at KKR.
Speaker 8: So you essentially have a kind of a future Unicorn
Speaker 8: of sorts being built inside of KKRE. If you're going
Speaker 8: to be bringing in a billion dollars over time in
Speaker 8: this business, do you think it's built into KKR stock
Speaker 8: that assumption yet?
Speaker 9: I think people are starting to appreciate what we're trying
Speaker 9: to build. But I think the bigger picture is when
Speaker 9: you look at our universe in the alt space five
Speaker 9: years from now, ten years from now, I think many
Speaker 9: of the public peers in the sector are going to
Speaker 9: actually take very different approaches to how do they grow
Speaker 9: their firms. I think the approach we have was with
Speaker 9: third party asset management, insurance and strategic holdings is quite
Speaker 9: differentiated and different than the way most of our peers
Speaker 9: are trying to grow their firms today.
Speaker 8: Now, I want to spend a little time talking about
Speaker 8: not just institutional capital and how you are deploying capital
Speaker 8: in your own balance sheet, we've been talking so much
Speaker 8: about how there has been a massive push for retail.
Speaker 8: When it comes to the world of private assets, everyone
Speaker 8: is doing it differently. You have a relationship with capital
Speaker 8: Group in order to make this available in a mutual
Speaker 8: fund form. So how available is it to invest in
Speaker 8: private assets from where you're sitting. What's the minimum amount
Speaker 8: you would need to put into a fund to start
Speaker 8: to get access to what you're offering.
Speaker 9: Sure, So the way to think about the bigger picture
Speaker 9: opportunity is for most of our history at KKR, we
Speaker 9: were found in nineteen seventy six. Our core client base
Speaker 9: was really large institutional investors, pension funds, insurance companies, sovereign
Speaker 9: wealth funds around the world. The individual investors who participated
Speaker 9: with us were really ultra high networth families and family
Speaker 9: offices who could allocate capital as part of their diversification
Speaker 9: as really LPs in our funds. They were willing, they
Speaker 9: were sophisticated investors, willing to take at ten or twelve
Speaker 9: year you know, illiquidity risk, just like a pension fund would.
Speaker 9: So that's a very small percent of the households obviously
Speaker 9: in the United States, but that's how they've accessed and
Speaker 9: partnered with us historically. What's relatively new for us in
Speaker 9: the last two to three years is we've introduced a
Speaker 9: series of private wealth products for individual investors who are
Speaker 9: credited investors. Okay, so those are investors with a net
Speaker 9: worth of call one to five million dollars. These open ended,
Speaker 9: evergreen products have semilarquidity of features, so you're not locking
Speaker 9: up your capital for ten to twelve years. You have
Speaker 9: the ability if you needed to redeem a portion of
Speaker 9: your capital every quarter. So it's a slightly different format,
Speaker 9: but it's it's investing in exactly the same deals that
Speaker 9: our flagship funds are investing in, right So that's we're
Speaker 9: trying to deliver that same institutional quality experience, the same portfolio,
Speaker 9: the same access to deal flow, whether that's in private equity,
Speaker 9: real estate, infrastructure, of private credit, to individual accredited investors.
Speaker 9: Right in that one to five million dollars in networth,
Speaker 9: that's around ten percent of the households in the United
Speaker 9: States in those first two buckets ultra high net worth
Speaker 9: and accredited investors, and roughly half the AOO in the
Speaker 9: individual channel. With Capital Group, we have an exciting new
Speaker 9: partnership which really addresses the next ninety percent of US households.
Speaker 9: These are mass affluent individual investors who probably wouldn't be
Speaker 9: buying our private wealth product and wouldn't be LP's in
Speaker 9: our traditional fund. So we're creating hybrid products with Capital
Speaker 9: Group in a mutual fund format. We're starting with credit
Speaker 9: in the second quarter, where we're going to be putting
Speaker 9: a portfolio together. Where Capitol Group manages the public credit,
Speaker 9: we will manage the private credit allocation in that mutual
Speaker 9: fund and deliver a product to the mass affluent that
Speaker 9: looks very different from anything they've been able to buy before.
Speaker 8: You know, it feels like the holy grail for this
Speaker 8: industry is making private assets available and four own plans. Yes,
Speaker 8: how soon do you think that happens? And if not
Speaker 8: that soon, what's the biggest barrier?
Speaker 9: Well, listen, I think again, at a high level, when
Speaker 9: you think about some of the societal challenges, we have
Speaker 9: a big part of that is securing your retirement right
Speaker 9: as you retire from work.
Speaker 4: Kr co CEO Jove along with Bloomberg Shnalie Basset from
Speaker 4: Bloomberg invest This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Blue Meg Technology. I'm Caroline Hyde in
Speaker 2: New York and.
Speaker 6: I'm Jackie Devalace in Washington.
Speaker 4: Let's just talk about more of the politic king that's
Speaker 4: affecting the market right now, and we want to think
Speaker 4: about what's happening in terms of President Trump and how
Speaker 4: he touched on in his address to Congress yesterday, in
Speaker 4: particular the focus on chips, which included a call, of course,
Speaker 4: to end the bipartisan fifty two billion dollar Chipsack Take listen.
Speaker 10: Your Chips Act is a horrible, horrible thing. We give
Speaker 10: hundreds of billions of dollars and it doesn't mean a thing.
Speaker 10: They take our money and they don't spend it. All
Speaker 10: that meant to them, we're giving them no money. All
Speaker 10: that was important to them was they didn't want to
Speaker 10: pay the tariffs, so they came in their building, and
Speaker 10: many other companies are coming.
Speaker 11: We'd have to give them money.
Speaker 10: We just want to protect our businesses and our people,
Speaker 10: and they will come because they won't have to pay
Speaker 10: tariffs if they build in America. So it's very amazing.
Speaker 10: You should get rid of the Chip Act once again.
Speaker 4: Investors try to digest what this means for market capitalizations,
Speaker 4: for the potential of buying publicly traded stocks. Have a
Speaker 4: look at what the reaction has been ultimately on the
Speaker 4: chip sector. We have been moving between gains and losses.
Speaker 4: On the Socks Semiconductor Index. We're off by four tens percent.
Speaker 4: Intel drags us lower, a big recipient of course, and
Speaker 4: potential loans and grants coming from the chipsack we're off
Speaker 4: by four point three percent. But TSMC saying that they're
Speaker 4: going to be laying the groundwork here in the United States,
Speaker 4: is that the tariff that brings us here the potential
Speaker 4: concerns there. TSMC up by one point two four percent.
Speaker 4: Brall come up by three tens of a percent. Mike
Speaker 4: Shepard joins us to really discern the devil that is
Speaker 4: in the detail here in that's just trying to understand
Speaker 4: really what this means. Would ever any grants or loans
Speaker 4: be taken away from.
Speaker 2: A company that's already been given it.
Speaker 12: Well, our reporting right now indicates that there will not
Speaker 12: be any clawbacks that actually take place. So if a
Speaker 12: check has been written to a company in cash, nobody
Speaker 12: is coming knocking on their door saying, hey, we want
Speaker 12: Uncle Sam's money back to put some other priority Under
Speaker 12: the new administration. But at the same time, it does
Speaker 12: raise a question about money that has been committed but
Speaker 12: not yet dispersed. Would there be any delays in that
Speaker 12: or a possible effort by the President through Congress or
Speaker 12: through the Commerce Department, which oversees this program to either
Speaker 12: stall or maybe try to redirect the money. Now, even
Speaker 12: that is kind of a remote prospect. And when the
Speaker 12: President said that he should just have Congress get rid
Speaker 12: of the Chips Act, he turned right around and looked
Speaker 12: at Mike Johnson. Was one of those moments during his address,
Speaker 12: and that really put the ball in essence in Congress's
Speaker 12: court more than anything else. We have seen a few
Speaker 12: changes though in this Chip's Act office, Carol, and one
Speaker 12: of them is that the dose driven cuts led by
Speaker 12: Elon Musk, they have gone through that office with the
Speaker 12: loss of as many as forty employees who would oversee
Speaker 12: deployment and disbursement of that money. So we are seeing
Speaker 12: some disruption to the program no matter what. One difference
Speaker 12: you highlighted between TSMC and Intel was in the share price,
Speaker 12: and part of that reflects that Intel is struggling to
Speaker 12: find customers that would sustain those big new plants that
Speaker 12: the government is helping him park to build. TSMC, on
Speaker 12: the other hand, heard from both A and D and
Speaker 12: Nvidia on Monday that, Hey, we're ready to buy those
Speaker 12: chips you guys are going to be making for us.
Speaker 3: There, Mike, where does this leave President Trump's vision for
Speaker 3: boosting domestic production, auction of these critical chips, and just
Speaker 3: broadly our competitiveness with China. This program was kind of
Speaker 3: supposed to put us in the lead, keep us there.
Speaker 3: What other levers does he have to pull?
Speaker 12: Now, Well, we know the favorite lever of Donald Trump,
Speaker 12: and that is a word that he refers to constantly
Speaker 12: as the most beautiful word perhaps in the dictionary, and
Speaker 12: that is tariffs. And he sees that as the driver
Speaker 12: in getting TSMC to make its decision to move to
Speaker 12: the US. And he also invoked that a week ago
Speaker 12: when Apple announced a five hundred billion dollar plan to
Speaker 12: invest in the US over four years and hire as
Speaker 12: many as twenty thousand new employees here on American soil.
Speaker 12: Trump said that the threat of tariffs had prompted Apple
Speaker 12: to make that decision, and he sees it as a
Speaker 12: way much more than subsidy programs to effectively bring companies
Speaker 12: to make their investments here, and he's also promised regulatory
Speaker 12: relief on perm for any companies that want to invest
Speaker 12: more than a billion dollars here in the US. So
Speaker 12: it is a combination of tariff threats and regulatory relief,
Speaker 12: and he talked about regulatory relief as well during his
Speaker 12: speech last night.
Speaker 3: That's Bloomberg's Mike Shepherd, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 3: Let's stick in more to the impact of Trump's comments
Speaker 3: on the Chips Act and tariffs. Were joined by Liza Tobin,
Speaker 3: managing director of Garneault Global. Liza, there is a lot
Speaker 3: to digest last night, but I want to start with
Speaker 3: the potential repeal of the Chips Act.
Speaker 6: This was really.
Speaker 3: Supposed to cement our position in the AI competitive landscape.
Speaker 3: Does this put us at risk a falling behind?
Speaker 13: Yes, the comments that Trump made in his speech last
Speaker 13: night were not new. He's on the record of complaining
Speaker 13: about subsidies and what's really at the heart of his
Speaker 13: concerns is not wanting to be subsidizing other countries. And
Speaker 13: so he's he, you know, in his first term, and
Speaker 13: now he's putting pressure to get our allies to reimburse us.
Speaker 13: He really feels like it's unfair that TSMC, a Taiwanese company,
Speaker 13: has gotten subsidies, and so you've seen this ratcheting up
Speaker 13: of pressure on TSMC that resulted in one hundred billion
Speaker 13: dollar announcement that TSMC will put even more investment into
Speaker 13: the United States. The sixty five billion already announced before
Speaker 13: and the Biden administration was already the largest foreign direct
Speaker 13: investment in US history, and so by adding another one
Speaker 13: hundred billion to.
Speaker 6: That, it really tops it chart.
Speaker 13: So it kind of remains to be seen if that
Speaker 13: will be enough to kind of satisfy him that he's
Speaker 13: been reimbursed by Taiwan and TSMC for these subsidies. But
Speaker 13: that's really at the heart of his concerns.
Speaker 6: How then can a.
Speaker 4: Local player like an Intel be reimbursed? Liza, talk us
Speaker 4: through what you think the chart and the stic situation
Speaker 4: is for local players who have been promised local US money.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a good way to put it, Caroline.
Speaker 13: I mean, the stick, of course is teriffs, and I
Speaker 13: agree with your previous commentator that his favorite tool, he's
Speaker 13: kind of Swiss army knife policy tool is the tariff.
Speaker 6: And so that was the stick that we heard about.
Speaker 13: But there were also some kind of promising carrots sprinkled
Speaker 13: through his speech.
Speaker 6: He talked about tax cuts.
Speaker 13: From manufacturers to buy more equipment. That would be a
Speaker 13: positive thing. He also talked about high skilled talent. So
Speaker 13: the attention has gone to his proposed gold card idea
Speaker 13: where high net worth individuals could pay five million dollars
Speaker 13: to get a green card. But also buried in the
Speaker 13: speech was an allusion to the issue of high skilled
Speaker 13: graduates from US universities having to leave the United States
Speaker 13: and not being able to stay and get a green card.
Speaker 13: And so it sounds like President Trump wants to change that.
Speaker 13: And that's something that many companies complain about as being
Speaker 13: the number one constraint to setting up companies and manufacturing
Speaker 13: plants in the United States is a lack of skilled workforce.
Speaker 3: Let's talk more about that talent pipeline, because the Chips
Speaker 3: Act was not only providing money for the manufacturing of plants,
Speaker 3: but also to agencies like the National Science Foundation, which
Speaker 3: really develops a lot of these master's degree doctorate level
Speaker 3: students that eventually end up in the private sector. By
Speaker 3: yanking that funding away, what does that do to that
Speaker 3: pipeline of talent longer term.
Speaker 13: Yeah, I think here there are a couple parts of
Speaker 13: President Trump's agenda that are working cross purposes.
Speaker 6: On the one hand, his instincts.
Speaker 13: Are that we need to attract the best and the
Speaker 13: brightest to the United States. But on the other hand,
Speaker 13: you have those kind of firing workers across the federal
Speaker 13: workforce and trying to cut funding. So if that starts
Speaker 13: cutting things like federally funded R and D and other
Speaker 13: support for science, you know, there's a very strong track
Speaker 13: record of that kind of federal investment in R and
Speaker 13: D paying off over the long term economically and in
Speaker 13: terms of moonshot programs and so here, I think Trump's
Speaker 13: agenda is kind of fighting fighting within itself, and it
Speaker 13: remains to be seen how that fight will be resolved.
Speaker 4: Liza, we bring you on time and time again to
Speaker 4: the show because you're Chinese expertise here, whether it's previously
Speaker 4: the special Competitive Studies Project, you're now of course, we've
Speaker 4: got no global think about geopolitical risk. In thirty seconds,
Speaker 4: is the new policy the new administration setting the US
Speaker 4: up better or worse versus China.
Speaker 13: So what's interesting is China has been a bit on
Speaker 13: the back burner in President Trump's first six weeks, he's.
Speaker 6: Not talking about China as much.
Speaker 13: It only came up very briefly a couple of times
Speaker 13: in his speech last night, kind of in passing.
Speaker 6: But we know that over on the other side of the.
Speaker 13: Pacific, Beijing is opening up its National People's Congress today.
Speaker 13: Their premiere made comments kind of reinforcing their desire to
Speaker 13: annex Taiwan, and you know they're ratcheting up the pressure
Speaker 13: in the Taiwan Strait. So it's only a matter of
Speaker 13: time before China kind of forces itself back onto the
Speaker 13: front burner of Trump's agenda.
Speaker 4: Zotobin, always great to catch up, Managing director Agano Global,
Speaker 4: thanks for joining us, coming up bringing AI to consumer
Speaker 4: applications AC sales men.
Speaker 2: Quaso's with us talking about the.
Speaker 4: Opportunities in that consumer space.
Speaker 2: This has been about technology time now for VC Spotlight.
Speaker 4: There are a growing number of opportunities for applied AI
Speaker 4: to transform your my products the consumer that's creating new
Speaker 4: openings for investors. Benquaso as a partner at ACEL joining
Speaker 4: us for more. And then when I think of your career,
Speaker 4: I think of AI and enter. But you're really leaning
Speaker 4: in here to thinking about how it's going to affect
Speaker 4: my life. What are some of the best that you've
Speaker 4: been making.
Speaker 6: That's right.
Speaker 11: So we recently led a seventy eight million dollar series
Speaker 11: C into an AI powered language learning app called Speak
Speaker 11: and so specifically, Speak teaches its learners how to communicate,
Speaker 11: how to have conversations through voice and audio. And this
Speaker 11: is kind of in contrast to the historical industry driven
Speaker 11: by memorization in grammar centric techniques. So we're really excited
Speaker 11: to back the leader in AI and kind of the
Speaker 11: language learning ecosystem.
Speaker 3: Ben, where are we now when it comes to consumer technology?
Speaker 3: Because there was quite the heyday in the mid two thousands,
Speaker 3: but today, in the era of AI, the biggest checks
Speaker 3: are being written for a lot of enterprise focused companies.
Speaker 6: What's left?
Speaker 3: What opportunities are you seeing to really bring back that
Speaker 3: consumer space?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I think.
Speaker 11: It's been a tough decade for consumer on the whole,
Speaker 11: but AI unlocks a whole new opportunity and we're actually
Speaker 11: seeing a little bit of a blend of both B
Speaker 11: to B application side at the house with the consumer
Speaker 11: side of the house. You know, at Excel, we're trying
Speaker 11: to back teams and products that are bringing five to
Speaker 11: ten x better user experiences to its users. And within
Speaker 11: the consumer world, that can come in the form of
Speaker 11: language learning, it can come in the form of music
Speaker 11: and health and wellness. So yeah, I think there's a
Speaker 11: lot of opportunity and frankly, the foundation that AI provides
Speaker 11: for a lot of these application layer businesses are what's
Speaker 11: the real.
Speaker 6: Game changer here?
Speaker 3: What do you make of valuations right now in the market.
Speaker 3: AI seems to be an outlier still getting those huge
Speaker 3: valuations even before a company has started generating revenue. Do
Speaker 3: you think some of that will start to soften?
Speaker 11: It's hard to predict the future. We're going to go
Speaker 11: through a lot of local maximums, local minimums. I think
Speaker 11: at Excel we're focused on what the next decade is
Speaker 11: going to drive from an enterprise value perspective, and so
Speaker 11: if we're backing the right products and the right teams
Speaker 11: who are laser focused on those missions, the valuations hopefully
Speaker 11: we'll look back on and won't feel too scared about
Speaker 11: our entry points. But there's no doubt there's a lot
Speaker 11: of excitement here and I think you have to be
Speaker 11: disciplined on where you're placing your bets.
Speaker 4: Ben is some of that froth coming out a speaking
Speaker 4: with Mike Anders over Iconic earlier today at Blomberg invest
Speaker 4: and he's saying, naturally, this disruption, this consumer sentiment shift,
Speaker 4: maybe that's a better environment for his company. At least
Speaker 4: it's out writing checks in because we do get rid
Speaker 4: of the froth, the fomo a little bit. I mean
Speaker 4: our valuations coming down in the private sector when we're
Speaker 4: off by twenty three percent compared to videos high a
Speaker 4: little bit earlier in the year.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think the tough part about looking at at
Speaker 11: public valuations is they're changing on a daily basis, and
Speaker 11: we're thinking about where these companies settle five to ten
Speaker 11: years from now. And so while yes, we'll see you know,
Speaker 11: medium shifts week to week, month to month, the truth
Speaker 11: is our underwright really has to be what can this
Speaker 11: company be at five years from now, ten years from now.
Speaker 11: And that's a challenge, but it's not necessarily correlated to
Speaker 11: the day to day price movements in the public with markets, what.
Speaker 3: Do you make of the humane kind of disaster there?
Speaker 3: It didn't really take off the AI pen. It was
Speaker 3: really the first intersection of generative AI and hardware. Do
Speaker 3: you guys look at those types of opportunities when you're
Speaker 3: going out and looking at how can we really bring
Speaker 3: this from a more consumer standpoint.
Speaker 11: Yeah, Look, I think it's always easy to poke holes
Speaker 11: in somewhat failed missions Hindsight's twenty twenty. But the truth
Speaker 11: is consumer is such a big opportunity that you have
Speaker 11: to take these big swings, and so I have a
Speaker 11: lot of respect for that team. I have a lot
Speaker 11: of respect for teams that are chasing massive end markets
Speaker 11: like audio, or like fitness, or like health and wellness.
Speaker 11: So I don't imagine they're going to be the only one. However,
Speaker 11: I also think we're going to wake up in twenty
Speaker 11: thirty five with a whole slew of new products that
Speaker 11: we use every single day, and not all of those
Speaker 11: are going to be created by the Apples and Amazons
Speaker 11: of the world.
Speaker 3: That's been a partner at Excel, thanks so much for
Speaker 3: joining us.
Speaker 4: It is the startup aiming to bring back extinct species
Speaker 4: like the dodo bird, like the wooly mammoth, and it
Speaker 4: says it's achieved a first step towards those goals. Colossal
Speaker 4: Biosciences has created a wily mouse. Scientists modified the mice
Speaker 4: using DNA and genomics technologies, giving the animals longer, thicker hair,
Speaker 4: and and altered metabolism. Ben Lamb, Colossal's co founder and CEO,
Speaker 4: is back on the show.
Speaker 2: Ben, how big a step.
Speaker 4: Is this because they look really cute but they don't
Speaker 4: know that different from other mice.
Speaker 14: Well, I think they look significantly cuterer than I say.
Speaker 14: You know, one article actually yesterday said they are the
Speaker 14: most adorable mice that have ever been created. They did
Speaker 14: say it was an accident, which isn't true. It's been very,
Speaker 14: very targeted. And you know some people have already asked,
Speaker 14: you know, will the wooly mice increase the speedable which
Speaker 14: we get to a mammoth And the answer is no.
Speaker 2: You know, we've been editing.
Speaker 14: I've been on the show before and we've been editing
Speaker 14: our Asian elephant cells with mammoth aleeles now for about
Speaker 14: two and a half years. But what the wooly mouse
Speaker 14: does is it proves that our end the end process
Speaker 14: of understanding computational biology from these ancient DnaA, making the
Speaker 14: edits and then screening the embryo so that they're healthy
Speaker 14: and we produce living healthy animals works and it it
Speaker 14: also worked in one month. So we started the project
Speaker 14: in September. In October we had our first mice and
Speaker 14: they had exactly the number of edits we targeted with
Speaker 14: one hundred percent efficiency, and the exact phenotypes are physical
Speaker 14: attributes that we're looking for, which is a validation of
Speaker 14: all the edits we're making in the mammoth.
Speaker 2: Already this is pace.
Speaker 4: Then what is the next step where do we get
Speaker 4: to see the next innovations for this particular mouse.
Speaker 14: Yeah, so right now, you know, it's obviously clear that
Speaker 14: we can see the hair fluffiness or wooliness as we
Speaker 14: like to call it, in terms of the texture, the thickness,
Speaker 14: and the different ways it grows. We can also see
Speaker 14: they're slightly slightly fattern a little bit larger, so it
Speaker 14: goes into the lipid metabolism genes that we've edited from
Speaker 14: the mammis. And then we can also see obviously the color,
Speaker 14: which is the color that mammos are when you pull
Speaker 14: them from the permafrost and clean all the promofrosts knock
Speaker 14: off of them.
Speaker 6: But what's really.
Speaker 14: Interesting is over the next six to twelve months, once
Speaker 14: we get approval from our ethics board and our I
Speaker 14: Code Board, we'll actually start to do behavioral tests versus
Speaker 14: wild type mice with feeding them different diets, increasing the
Speaker 14: temperature just a little bit to see how they behave
Speaker 14: in these different environments, to see if they do prefer
Speaker 14: cold tolerance, And that'll be another signal that we're on
Speaker 14: the right track with some of our mammoth edits that
Speaker 14: we're making in the Asian alpha genome.
Speaker 4: But I asked for it last time, and I sort
Speaker 4: of returned to it at this moment of geopolitical anxiety.
Speaker 2: A man who has built generative well, you.
Speaker 4: Built AI companies, You've thought about defense, you've thought about space,
Speaker 4: but now is the time you're thinking about willy mammos
Speaker 4: and potentially extinct animals.
Speaker 2: Coming back push us forward as the why again, why
Speaker 2: we're doing this?
Speaker 14: So we're going to lose up to fifty percent of
Speaker 14: biodiversity between now and twenty fifty if we don't do
Speaker 14: anything about it. Right, we know conservation works, it just
Speaker 14: doesn't work at the speed of which we're eradicating species
Speaker 14: and changing the planet. Right, So we need new tools
Speaker 14: and technologies in that. And what's amazing about this project
Speaker 14: is it gives us an opportunity to build new tools
Speaker 14: and technologies which can help humans, which we're monetizing. It
Speaker 14: also builds opportunity to build technologies that can help conservation,
Speaker 14: which we're giving to the world for free. We've launched
Speaker 14: our foundation last year with a fifty million dollars seat
Speaker 14: investment in it. And it also gives us an opportunity
Speaker 14: to inspire the next generation. So I'm really glad that
Speaker 14: I'm not dealing with events or some of the other
Speaker 14: geopolitical issues. I think everyone generally agrees on both sides
Speaker 14: the aisle and all of the world that losing species
Speaker 14: is bad and we should do everything we can to
Speaker 14: protect what's here and build new technologies for conservation.
Speaker 2: And that takes money.
Speaker 4: And boy, if you raised it more than former and
Speaker 4: thirty five million dollars of it, then the next stage
Speaker 4: is how expensive is it?
Speaker 2: How much more might you need to raise?
Speaker 14: You know, where a technology startup, it's also innovating new
Speaker 14: tech achnologies for human health care and other industrial use cases.
Speaker 14: Like we spent out breaking last year, which is our
Speaker 14: plastic degradation company. We spent out form Bio, our competition
Speaker 14: biology company for human healthcare. We have another one that
Speaker 14: may or may not be coming out at the end
Speaker 14: of this year, and so we will continue to raise
Speaker 14: money as long as there's investors' interest and sentiment and
Speaker 14: they're excited about the mission.
Speaker 6: But I think genetic.
Speaker 14: Proofcases where we can identify genes and make one hundred
Speaker 14: percent in precision at it's using multiplex editing, making all
Speaker 14: these these editswards stack, you're made all at one time
Speaker 14: with one hundred percent efficiency. That's just not something that
Speaker 14: we see in genome engineering, right. I mean, I'd say
Speaker 14: that leading the charge in genetic multiplex engineering is probably
Speaker 14: a pretty large market long term. So we will continue
Speaker 14: to raise more capital in the years to come.
Speaker 4: The Willie Mouse the stepping stone to the Wily Mammoth.
Speaker 4: Thanks so much for bringing us acute pictures and your expertise.
Speaker 4: Ben Lamb, co founder CEO of Colossal Biosciences. Now that
Speaker 4: does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 7: What would be