1
00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,956
Speaker 1: Pushkin.

2
00:00:18,316 --> 00:00:21,516
Speaker 2: This is Justin Richmond here with the bonus episode of

3
00:00:21,716 --> 00:00:24,356
Speaker 2: Broken Record. It's a little bit of a different episode

4
00:00:24,476 --> 00:00:27,516
Speaker 2: than we typically air, but I think it's one that

5
00:00:27,956 --> 00:00:32,276
Speaker 2: the musicians that listen to the show will be excited

6
00:00:32,356 --> 00:00:35,916
Speaker 2: to learn from. This is one where it's like, you know,

7
00:00:36,076 --> 00:00:37,876
Speaker 2: you'll get some joy out of this too, I imagine,

8
00:00:37,876 --> 00:00:39,516
Speaker 2: but also put on your thinking cap and think about

9
00:00:39,556 --> 00:00:41,036
Speaker 2: how some of this relates to you and how you

10
00:00:41,076 --> 00:00:44,636
Speaker 2: can use some of this. It's a conversation about finding

11
00:00:44,836 --> 00:00:48,596
Speaker 2: success in the music industry through non traditional means.

12
00:00:48,836 --> 00:00:50,636
Speaker 1: You know. It's about artists and.

13
00:00:50,556 --> 00:00:53,916
Speaker 2: Independent labels who found ways to forge their own paths

14
00:00:53,956 --> 00:00:56,836
Speaker 2: to success outside of massive record.

15
00:00:56,556 --> 00:00:57,956
Speaker 1: Sales, big ticket tours.

16
00:00:58,076 --> 00:01:01,436
Speaker 2: Thinking the Taylor Swifts here of course, right, and how

17
00:01:01,476 --> 00:01:04,796
Speaker 2: you can innovate within the music industry giving indie artists

18
00:01:04,836 --> 00:01:08,276
Speaker 2: a way to thrive. This episode is sponsored by Chase

19
00:01:08,276 --> 00:01:11,436
Speaker 2: for Business and I'm joined by Ben Walter, who is

20
00:01:11,476 --> 00:01:13,676
Speaker 2: the CEO of Chase for Business in the host of

21
00:01:13,676 --> 00:01:17,876
Speaker 2: his own brilliant podcast, The Unshakables. Ben, thanks for joining

22
00:01:17,916 --> 00:01:19,276
Speaker 2: us for this episode.

23
00:01:19,436 --> 00:01:22,156
Speaker 3: Justin Thanks for having me. I love all things music,

24
00:01:22,236 --> 00:01:24,156
Speaker 3: so this is this is an exciting moment for me,

25
00:01:24,316 --> 00:01:25,356
Speaker 3: I'm really glad to be with.

26
00:01:25,276 --> 00:01:26,276
Speaker 1: You, good man.

27
00:01:27,036 --> 00:01:30,076
Speaker 2: This is like a really you know, as media continues

28
00:01:30,076 --> 00:01:32,356
Speaker 2: to evolve, this is something that I think is front

29
00:01:32,356 --> 00:01:35,916
Speaker 2: of mine for everybody, and in this creative spaces, like

30
00:01:35,916 --> 00:01:39,196
Speaker 2: like a broken record, we don't often have these kinds

31
00:01:39,236 --> 00:01:41,836
Speaker 2: of conversations about business, and I think they can be

32
00:01:41,916 --> 00:01:45,196
Speaker 2: really insightful for creatives and for artists and musicians. So

33
00:01:45,796 --> 00:01:49,676
Speaker 2: thank you, I hope so so, Ben, I'm so for

34
00:01:49,716 --> 00:01:50,196
Speaker 2: those reasons.

35
00:01:50,236 --> 00:01:51,836
Speaker 1: I'm happy to have you on to talk about this.

36
00:01:51,996 --> 00:01:53,836
Speaker 1: You know, I think most people think about.

37
00:01:53,636 --> 00:01:55,676
Speaker 2: The artists they love, you know, we just had like

38
00:01:55,796 --> 00:01:59,436
Speaker 2: a Will Smith on right, you know, even Billy Corgan

39
00:01:59,516 --> 00:02:01,676
Speaker 2: on right. They're more often than not a part of

40
00:02:01,916 --> 00:02:05,356
Speaker 2: a larger system like a major label, a major label group,

41
00:02:05,436 --> 00:02:08,556
Speaker 2: Universal Music, or Sony. But when you learn more about

42
00:02:08,556 --> 00:02:11,276
Speaker 2: the industry and smaller artists, you realize there's a lot

43
00:02:11,316 --> 00:02:14,756
Speaker 2: of other ways to make money and be successful in

44
00:02:14,796 --> 00:02:16,916
Speaker 2: the industry, to make money on what you're doing and

45
00:02:16,916 --> 00:02:20,076
Speaker 2: provide a living for yourself. People always think about the

46
00:02:20,196 --> 00:02:22,916
Speaker 2: art of business, right, but we don't spend as much

47
00:02:22,996 --> 00:02:26,116
Speaker 2: time I think thinking about the business of art, you know.

48
00:02:26,196 --> 00:02:28,276
Speaker 3: And I think that's a great line. Yeah, it's true,

49
00:02:28,276 --> 00:02:31,476
Speaker 3: but you cannot sustainably have one without the other.

50
00:02:31,956 --> 00:02:32,716
Speaker 1: Absolutely not.

51
00:02:33,196 --> 00:02:37,116
Speaker 2: There's a label called Excel Recordings out of England and

52
00:02:37,196 --> 00:02:40,996
Speaker 2: we had its founder, Richard Russell on the podcast in

53
00:02:41,036 --> 00:02:44,276
Speaker 2: its early days. One of the problems that Richard Russell

54
00:02:44,756 --> 00:02:47,196
Speaker 2: felt he was solving when he started Excel Recordings was

55
00:02:47,236 --> 00:02:51,076
Speaker 2: he looked at independence and he realized, well, you know,

56
00:02:51,516 --> 00:02:53,796
Speaker 2: the people running these labels, they have a lot of

57
00:02:54,076 --> 00:02:56,196
Speaker 2: heart and soul and they really want to see their

58
00:02:56,276 --> 00:03:00,956
Speaker 2: artists succeed and they're identifying unique talent. But where he

59
00:03:01,036 --> 00:03:04,876
Speaker 2: realized major labels for succeeding was obviously having the budget,

60
00:03:04,956 --> 00:03:08,596
Speaker 2: being able to drive distribution and marketing, and he thought,

61
00:03:08,636 --> 00:03:11,036
Speaker 2: well those are you know, I guess there's a natural

62
00:03:11,076 --> 00:03:12,956
Speaker 2: tension between those two things, but maybe there's a way

63
00:03:12,956 --> 00:03:14,876
Speaker 2: to solve this. And the way he thought that if

64
00:03:14,876 --> 00:03:16,996
Speaker 2: I sort an indie, the way he would solve it

65
00:03:17,076 --> 00:03:19,516
Speaker 2: was just to sign less artists. That way he'd have

66
00:03:19,956 --> 00:03:22,396
Speaker 2: a bigger pot of money to distribute amongst a smaller

67
00:03:22,436 --> 00:03:25,436
Speaker 2: number of artists and be able to grow sustainably. Does

68
00:03:25,436 --> 00:03:28,636
Speaker 2: that seem like a sound first principles for starting a

69
00:03:28,676 --> 00:03:29,516
Speaker 2: business of that sort.

70
00:03:29,916 --> 00:03:32,756
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think look in any business, when you think

71
00:03:32,796 --> 00:03:34,956
Speaker 3: about the top line of the business, you know the

72
00:03:35,276 --> 00:03:39,396
Speaker 3: revenue coming in. You always got this issue between product

73
00:03:39,436 --> 00:03:42,076
Speaker 3: and distribution. In the case of music, content and distribution.

74
00:03:42,116 --> 00:03:44,716
Speaker 3: But content is the product, So you pick your wording,

75
00:03:45,076 --> 00:03:47,076
Speaker 3: but you know you have stuff to get to market,

76
00:03:47,156 --> 00:03:49,316
Speaker 3: and then you have pipes that get it to the market.

77
00:03:49,676 --> 00:03:53,476
Speaker 3: And in different industries at different times, at different points,

78
00:03:53,596 --> 00:03:56,796
Speaker 3: different parts of that value chain have more and less

79
00:03:56,956 --> 00:04:00,356
Speaker 3: leverage over one another. So I think you know, in

80
00:04:00,396 --> 00:04:02,276
Speaker 3: the case of Excel, what they did that was smart

81
00:04:02,316 --> 00:04:06,556
Speaker 3: is they realized they had great product but limited leverage

82
00:04:06,556 --> 00:04:10,956
Speaker 3: on the distribution side. And so what they really did

83
00:04:10,956 --> 00:04:13,756
Speaker 3: in essence by cutting it down is said, I am

84
00:04:13,796 --> 00:04:16,996
Speaker 3: willing to take a bet on my product, and by

85
00:04:16,996 --> 00:04:20,196
Speaker 3: limiting the product, I will maximize the number of resources

86
00:04:20,236 --> 00:04:23,876
Speaker 3: I can throw my real challenge, which is distribution. And

87
00:04:23,956 --> 00:04:27,116
Speaker 3: so that's a really smart way in their case. Now

88
00:04:27,276 --> 00:04:30,076
Speaker 3: they were betting big, right, because if the talent wasn't

89
00:04:30,076 --> 00:04:32,276
Speaker 3: as good as they thought, they wouldn't be where they

90
00:04:32,276 --> 00:04:35,436
Speaker 3: are today because they basically went all in on product.

91
00:04:35,636 --> 00:04:35,836
Speaker 1: Yeah.

92
00:04:35,876 --> 00:04:37,596
Speaker 3: Now you can do that when you're just starting out

93
00:04:37,596 --> 00:04:38,876
Speaker 3: because you have very little to lose.

94
00:04:39,356 --> 00:04:41,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's funny, I mean, to your point, when

95
00:04:41,516 --> 00:04:43,436
Speaker 2: you're that small and just starting out, you don't have

96
00:04:43,476 --> 00:04:45,756
Speaker 2: a ton to lose, but it's still risky. But you know,

97
00:04:45,796 --> 00:04:48,556
Speaker 2: adjusted for adjusted for the amount of money you're kind

98
00:04:48,556 --> 00:04:51,396
Speaker 2: of making, and that you know, it's that risk can

99
00:04:51,436 --> 00:04:52,236
Speaker 2: feel big.

100
00:04:52,476 --> 00:04:54,196
Speaker 1: And they really were niche.

101
00:04:53,916 --> 00:04:56,556
Speaker 2: To start, like they were a rave and dance label

102
00:04:56,676 --> 00:04:58,996
Speaker 2: right as that stuff was starting to kind of come

103
00:04:58,996 --> 00:05:01,996
Speaker 2: out of clubs and maybe just touch the mainstream a bit.

104
00:05:02,636 --> 00:05:06,036
Speaker 2: But one of their early artists was the group Prodigy,

105
00:05:06,236 --> 00:05:08,596
Speaker 2: and you know, and then the label starts in nineteen

106
00:05:08,596 --> 00:05:11,316
Speaker 2: eighty nine and by nineteen ninety four they have a

107
00:05:11,476 --> 00:05:13,516
Speaker 2: you know, the Prodigy, you have a number one album

108
00:05:13,516 --> 00:05:15,236
Speaker 2: in the UK. By nineteen ninety seven they have a

109
00:05:15,316 --> 00:05:17,476
Speaker 2: number one album in the UK and the US, right,

110
00:05:17,556 --> 00:05:19,996
Speaker 2: And so that pot of money I think starts to

111
00:05:20,036 --> 00:05:22,876
Speaker 2: get bigger at the label and then they are What

112
00:05:22,916 --> 00:05:27,196
Speaker 2: they did was reinvest back again, same principle, thinking let's

113
00:05:27,196 --> 00:05:30,356
Speaker 2: take the money we have invested into a small number

114
00:05:30,356 --> 00:05:32,756
Speaker 2: of artists. They just took that money, reinvested into the

115
00:05:32,836 --> 00:05:35,196
Speaker 2: artists and eventually they grow that to you know, like

116
00:05:35,316 --> 00:05:39,196
Speaker 2: until they're releasing Adell's album twenty one and Vampire Weekend

117
00:05:39,236 --> 00:05:42,316
Speaker 2: Records and White Stripes Records, and Radiohead and Tyler the Creator,

118
00:05:42,356 --> 00:05:45,276
Speaker 2: you know, like artists who are really shaping modern culture.

119
00:05:45,756 --> 00:05:48,756
Speaker 3: Oh the White Stripes. Yes. Well, look, I think a

120
00:05:48,756 --> 00:05:52,276
Speaker 3: few things. One is it's always good to know where

121
00:05:52,316 --> 00:05:54,636
Speaker 3: you think you have an unfair advantage. And by unfair

122
00:05:54,676 --> 00:05:57,636
Speaker 3: I don't mean a monopoly. I mean in this case,

123
00:05:57,676 --> 00:06:00,756
Speaker 3: their unfair advantage is they could pick talent better. Yeah,

124
00:06:00,916 --> 00:06:03,396
Speaker 3: that was like clearly they had an eye for it

125
00:06:03,436 --> 00:06:06,036
Speaker 3: that the market didn't have because they could bet on

126
00:06:06,076 --> 00:06:08,436
Speaker 3: a few artists who were better. But that is a

127
00:06:08,476 --> 00:06:12,796
Speaker 3: concentrated risk. And so what I tell many new business

128
00:06:12,796 --> 00:06:17,236
Speaker 3: owners is it's easy to forget this, but ultimately, managing

129
00:06:17,236 --> 00:06:21,556
Speaker 3: a business is primarily about managing risk, even when you're

130
00:06:21,596 --> 00:06:23,996
Speaker 3: in the growth phase. It's not like only big companies

131
00:06:23,996 --> 00:06:27,036
Speaker 3: that have something to lose have risk, because even small companies,

132
00:06:27,076 --> 00:06:28,876
Speaker 3: as you said, starting out, you know, if they only

133
00:06:28,876 --> 00:06:30,636
Speaker 3: got so much money in the bank, they have risk too,

134
00:06:31,436 --> 00:06:33,356
Speaker 3: And so I encourage them to think of a triangle.

135
00:06:33,436 --> 00:06:36,516
Speaker 3: You know, whatever you're doing doesn't matter I'm promoting a

136
00:06:36,556 --> 00:06:39,196
Speaker 3: new artist or I'm doubling down on my existing artist,

137
00:06:39,316 --> 00:06:42,596
Speaker 3: or I'm launching a new label, or I'm promoting a

138
00:06:42,596 --> 00:06:45,236
Speaker 3: new album. Whatever you're doing, you're trying to balance a

139
00:06:45,236 --> 00:06:47,836
Speaker 3: three legged stool, because everything you do has some level

140
00:06:47,836 --> 00:06:51,236
Speaker 3: of financial risk, some level of brand and reputational risk,

141
00:06:51,356 --> 00:06:54,156
Speaker 3: and some level of operational risk. Right, Because even you

142
00:06:54,236 --> 00:06:56,356
Speaker 3: might say, well, there's financial risk if I take this

143
00:06:56,396 --> 00:06:58,956
Speaker 3: bet and it goes bad, but there might be operational

144
00:06:58,996 --> 00:07:00,596
Speaker 3: risk if I take the bet and it goes really

145
00:07:00,636 --> 00:07:02,516
Speaker 3: well and I don't have the resources to fulfill on

146
00:07:02,596 --> 00:07:04,916
Speaker 3: what I just sold, or both of those things go

147
00:07:05,036 --> 00:07:07,516
Speaker 3: really well, but then you know the way it's received

148
00:07:07,636 --> 00:07:09,116
Speaker 3: taints my brand in a way that I'm on come.

149
00:07:09,596 --> 00:07:11,996
Speaker 3: You're always balancing sort of those three legs of the

150
00:07:11,996 --> 00:07:14,796
Speaker 3: stool and trying to manage those. So that's one is

151
00:07:14,836 --> 00:07:17,236
Speaker 3: to really think of when you're running a business. You're

152
00:07:17,276 --> 00:07:19,516
Speaker 3: taking bets, and you've got to manage the risk around

153
00:07:19,516 --> 00:07:22,196
Speaker 3: all of those things. And I would say the second

154
00:07:22,196 --> 00:07:24,476
Speaker 3: one is know when you're playing to win versus playing

155
00:07:24,516 --> 00:07:27,396
Speaker 3: not to lose. You know, as a small brand, they

156
00:07:27,396 --> 00:07:29,556
Speaker 3: were playing to win, right, they were going to bet

157
00:07:29,556 --> 00:07:32,156
Speaker 3: on a few artists. You know, they were betting the farm,

158
00:07:32,356 --> 00:07:34,996
Speaker 3: and they were playing to win when they got bigger.

159
00:07:35,076 --> 00:07:37,196
Speaker 3: My guess is now often they don't put quite as

160
00:07:37,236 --> 00:07:39,916
Speaker 3: many eggs in one basket because there's a few places

161
00:07:39,956 --> 00:07:41,996
Speaker 3: where they think they can bet big and play to win,

162
00:07:42,036 --> 00:07:44,596
Speaker 3: and some other places they'll take a smaller bet not

163
00:07:44,676 --> 00:07:47,316
Speaker 3: to lose. I don't know their strategies per se, but

164
00:07:47,396 --> 00:07:49,796
Speaker 3: as companies get bigger, they start to think in those terms.

165
00:07:49,796 --> 00:07:52,476
Speaker 3: Because you're making resource trade offs and investment tradeoffs all

166
00:07:52,516 --> 00:07:52,876
Speaker 3: the time.

167
00:07:53,796 --> 00:07:56,756
Speaker 2: That's interesting, so you start to think of the certain

168
00:07:56,796 --> 00:08:01,196
Speaker 2: big bets as possibly subsidizing the riskier bets.

169
00:08:01,396 --> 00:08:03,436
Speaker 3: That's right, because you because one of the obligations you

170
00:08:03,436 --> 00:08:06,076
Speaker 3: always have, you have to make money today and tomorrow.

171
00:08:06,956 --> 00:08:09,916
Speaker 3: You can't. You can't just say well, I'll bet it

172
00:08:09,956 --> 00:08:12,796
Speaker 3: all for tomorrow, because then you don't eat dinner. And

173
00:08:12,836 --> 00:08:15,356
Speaker 3: you can't just you know, take all the profits today

174
00:08:15,356 --> 00:08:17,036
Speaker 3: because then there'll be nothing paying you a dividend in

175
00:08:17,076 --> 00:08:19,876
Speaker 3: the future. So you owe it to your business, your investors,

176
00:08:19,916 --> 00:08:22,956
Speaker 3: and yourself to make money for today and for tomorrow.

177
00:08:23,356 --> 00:08:25,956
Speaker 2: Speaking of unfair advantage, this next one I want to

178
00:08:25,956 --> 00:08:29,396
Speaker 2: talk about beats by Dre, which of course is started

179
00:08:29,396 --> 00:08:32,676
Speaker 2: by Jimmy Ivan and doctor Dre. I mean, the unique

180
00:08:32,716 --> 00:08:35,676
Speaker 2: advantage is the unfair advantage here is fairly obviously.

181
00:08:35,636 --> 00:08:36,996
Speaker 1: There are two guys who.

182
00:08:37,156 --> 00:08:39,236
Speaker 3: He's doctor Drey, He's doctor Dre.

183
00:08:39,316 --> 00:08:41,596
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's like, you know, in terms of

184
00:08:41,796 --> 00:08:45,276
Speaker 2: sound and audio quality and production and Jimmy Ivy and

185
00:08:45,316 --> 00:08:47,396
Speaker 2: the same, you know, working on John Lennon records and

186
00:08:47,716 --> 00:08:50,636
Speaker 2: the Tom Petty records and then starting Innerscope. It's like,

187
00:08:50,636 --> 00:08:54,316
Speaker 2: these are two guys that know music, they know quality sound,

188
00:08:54,876 --> 00:08:56,636
Speaker 2: you know, and they start in two thousand and six,

189
00:08:56,676 --> 00:08:59,436
Speaker 2: so you you know, even though they're d eightying around

190
00:08:59,476 --> 00:09:01,436
Speaker 2: two thousand and four, two thousand and five, not too

191
00:09:01,436 --> 00:09:04,396
Speaker 2: long after Napster's kind of up. Napster up ends and

192
00:09:04,676 --> 00:09:08,676
Speaker 2: peer to peer file sharing and iTunes kinds of kind.

193
00:09:08,516 --> 00:09:10,076
Speaker 3: Of secord business overnight.

194
00:09:10,156 --> 00:09:10,756
Speaker 1: Yeah, there it.

195
00:09:10,716 --> 00:09:14,116
Speaker 2: Goes, right, And so Jimmy and Drey start to think, well,

196
00:09:14,236 --> 00:09:18,076
Speaker 2: what are ways other ways we can make money still

197
00:09:18,156 --> 00:09:21,596
Speaker 2: in music, and they realize, well, not only are people

198
00:09:21,796 --> 00:09:24,996
Speaker 2: stealing music, but like the quality of the music they're

199
00:09:25,036 --> 00:09:27,996
Speaker 2: stealing is terrible. We should give them headphones so they

200
00:09:28,036 --> 00:09:30,876
Speaker 2: can actually hear what you're playing is terrible, and start

201
00:09:30,916 --> 00:09:35,436
Speaker 2: to train train the audience to recognize good quality and

202
00:09:35,476 --> 00:09:36,916
Speaker 2: so they start beats by Dre.

203
00:09:37,476 --> 00:09:40,196
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what's really interesting about that, justin look,

204
00:09:40,876 --> 00:09:43,436
Speaker 3: it's not quite a complete analogy, because no one's worried

205
00:09:43,476 --> 00:09:47,316
Speaker 3: about either of those two guys. Next meal, however, we

206
00:09:47,396 --> 00:09:52,716
Speaker 3: see typically in economic downturns, when there's a recession, new

207
00:09:52,756 --> 00:09:58,836
Speaker 3: business formation goes up, not down. It's countercyclical. Why because

208
00:09:58,876 --> 00:10:01,636
Speaker 3: people lose their jobs. And when they lose their jobs,

209
00:10:01,756 --> 00:10:03,756
Speaker 3: they say, hmm, I can't seem to find a job

210
00:10:03,796 --> 00:10:05,436
Speaker 3: I want. I'm going to go start a business and

211
00:10:05,476 --> 00:10:07,156
Speaker 3: I'm going to do that idea that I always came

212
00:10:07,236 --> 00:10:09,636
Speaker 3: up with, or I'm gonna I'm a going to take

213
00:10:09,636 --> 00:10:11,796
Speaker 3: the plunge and see what I can do. And so

214
00:10:12,876 --> 00:10:17,156
Speaker 3: a huge number of the entrepreneurs that we see on

215
00:10:17,196 --> 00:10:20,596
Speaker 3: our show In My Business are people who you know,

216
00:10:20,716 --> 00:10:24,196
Speaker 3: something went wrong, something went in a way they didn't expect,

217
00:10:24,276 --> 00:10:27,116
Speaker 3: and the next thing they know, they're starting a business.

218
00:10:27,396 --> 00:10:28,516
Speaker 3: That is not uncommon.

219
00:10:29,076 --> 00:10:30,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this is a question a lot of

220
00:10:30,916 --> 00:10:34,876
Speaker 2: people find themselves running into, and especially artists too, is

221
00:10:34,956 --> 00:10:38,436
Speaker 2: the idea of needing to take on a lot of

222
00:10:38,636 --> 00:10:42,516
Speaker 2: roles or jobs or gigs in order to make you

223
00:10:42,556 --> 00:10:46,276
Speaker 2: know the income necessary to satisfy your lifestyle. Oh yeah,

224
00:10:46,356 --> 00:10:48,756
Speaker 2: when you're talking to small business owners, how do you

225
00:10:49,356 --> 00:10:52,796
Speaker 2: help them navigate? Well, you know, yes, you can take

226
00:10:52,876 --> 00:10:55,396
Speaker 2: these ten things and all ten things will let you

227
00:10:55,596 --> 00:10:56,436
Speaker 2: x amount.

228
00:10:56,196 --> 00:10:57,996
Speaker 1: But maybe that's not a good thing.

229
00:10:58,076 --> 00:11:00,156
Speaker 2: Ultimately, you know, how do you know where to really

230
00:11:00,276 --> 00:11:01,236
Speaker 2: reinvest your time?

231
00:11:01,716 --> 00:11:03,596
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say a few things. One is you

232
00:11:03,636 --> 00:11:06,756
Speaker 3: have to take the first do no harm view, which

233
00:11:06,796 --> 00:11:08,796
Speaker 3: is you know, and if I take that to a

234
00:11:08,876 --> 00:11:11,356
Speaker 3: music artist, you know, if doing anything else is going

235
00:11:11,436 --> 00:11:13,476
Speaker 3: to is going to degrade the quality of your music,

236
00:11:13,516 --> 00:11:16,996
Speaker 3: your music, whether you're a singer songwriter, you know, you

237
00:11:17,036 --> 00:11:19,756
Speaker 3: write your own material or you're just a performer of

238
00:11:19,796 --> 00:11:22,396
Speaker 3: other people's material. Either way, if it's going to take

239
00:11:22,436 --> 00:11:25,356
Speaker 3: away from that, then you're you're eroding your core activity

240
00:11:25,396 --> 00:11:29,916
Speaker 3: for something else. And you better have awful conviction, an

241
00:11:29,916 --> 00:11:31,556
Speaker 3: awful lot of conviction. And what that other thing is

242
00:11:31,556 --> 00:11:33,676
Speaker 3: if you're going to undermine that, you know, So imagine

243
00:11:33,836 --> 00:11:36,196
Speaker 3: you know, if you're a sports star and you start

244
00:11:36,196 --> 00:11:39,116
Speaker 3: a brand, a clothing brand, and in the process of

245
00:11:39,156 --> 00:11:43,956
Speaker 3: focusing on that clothing brand, you become a much worse athlete.

246
00:11:44,076 --> 00:11:46,196
Speaker 3: That's probably going to have not just an impact on

247
00:11:46,236 --> 00:11:48,076
Speaker 3: your athletic career. It's going to have an impact on

248
00:11:48,116 --> 00:11:51,076
Speaker 3: your brand. So you might have just released a great

249
00:11:51,076 --> 00:11:53,196
Speaker 3: album and you think, you know what, I can trade

250
00:11:53,196 --> 00:11:54,876
Speaker 3: on this album for a year, and I've got more

251
00:11:54,876 --> 00:11:56,836
Speaker 3: content in the waiting, and so I can go focus

252
00:11:56,836 --> 00:11:59,276
Speaker 3: on some other things because I feel good about where

253
00:11:59,276 --> 00:12:00,756
Speaker 3: the music is for a period of time, and I

254
00:12:00,916 --> 00:12:02,596
Speaker 3: commit to coming back to it in this time so

255
00:12:02,596 --> 00:12:04,116
Speaker 3: that I don't let an atrophy. You know, you can

256
00:12:04,116 --> 00:12:06,876
Speaker 3: make decisions like that, but ultimately, if you're going to

257
00:12:06,956 --> 00:12:09,756
Speaker 3: take you know you you are going to be distracted

258
00:12:09,836 --> 00:12:11,556
Speaker 3: no matter what you do, and so you really need

259
00:12:11,596 --> 00:12:14,676
Speaker 3: to think about, of all the activities I have, which

260
00:12:14,676 --> 00:12:17,196
Speaker 3: one is gonna protect my interests and which one's going

261
00:12:17,236 --> 00:12:18,836
Speaker 3: to grow my interest and how can I split my

262
00:12:18,876 --> 00:12:19,916
Speaker 3: time between those things.

263
00:12:21,236 --> 00:12:23,236
Speaker 1: That's that's sage advice. That's sage advice.

264
00:12:23,476 --> 00:12:25,556
Speaker 3: I mean, it's easier. Look, it's easier said than done.

265
00:12:25,556 --> 00:12:26,756
Speaker 3: I wish, I wish I could tell you there's a

266
00:12:26,756 --> 00:12:29,796
Speaker 3: mathematical formula for it. There's not. I'm afraid even a

267
00:12:29,796 --> 00:12:31,596
Speaker 3: banker will tell you. Judgment wins the day.

268
00:12:32,236 --> 00:12:33,476
Speaker 1: You know, judgment wins the day.

269
00:12:33,636 --> 00:12:35,796
Speaker 2: I mean, probably everyone should trust their judgment but artists

270
00:12:35,796 --> 00:12:38,316
Speaker 2: are people who are who work on their judgment every day.

271
00:12:38,316 --> 00:12:40,116
Speaker 2: That's what they're doing, you know, They're creating things and

272
00:12:40,196 --> 00:12:43,756
Speaker 2: trusting their gut. And so hopefully we can, you know,

273
00:12:43,916 --> 00:12:46,316
Speaker 2: those of us who don't have business degrees, we can

274
00:12:46,356 --> 00:12:48,116
Speaker 2: still figure out how to make how to make things

275
00:12:48,156 --> 00:12:48,716
Speaker 2: work for us.

276
00:12:48,956 --> 00:12:50,556
Speaker 3: I agree with you justin no one ever made a

277
00:12:50,556 --> 00:12:53,196
Speaker 3: great piece of music by you know, just repeating someone

278
00:12:53,196 --> 00:12:55,196
Speaker 3: else's music. People make a great piece of music because

279
00:12:55,196 --> 00:12:56,676
Speaker 3: they have the guts to do something original.

280
00:12:57,236 --> 00:12:59,916
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, well, Ben, thank you so much.

281
00:12:59,996 --> 00:13:02,836
Speaker 2: This is you know again, I don't spend a lot

282
00:13:02,916 --> 00:13:06,676
Speaker 2: of time thinking about the business of music, but it's

283
00:13:06,716 --> 00:13:09,316
Speaker 2: it's really instructive, you know. I mean, frankly, I'm even

284
00:13:09,356 --> 00:13:10,956
Speaker 2: thought I spent a ton of time thinking about it.

285
00:13:10,996 --> 00:13:12,556
Speaker 2: I'm doing it every day, you know, and so it's

286
00:13:12,676 --> 00:13:16,556
Speaker 2: nice to actually spend some time prioritizing the business side

287
00:13:16,556 --> 00:13:16,916
Speaker 2: of things.

288
00:13:17,276 --> 00:13:19,276
Speaker 3: Well, look, I appreciate you having me on. I think,

289
00:13:19,316 --> 00:13:21,116
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know a single person who doesn't

290
00:13:21,156 --> 00:13:24,876
Speaker 3: love music, and music makes our lives richer, and music

291
00:13:24,916 --> 00:13:27,956
Speaker 3: can't thrive without a successful business model underlying it. We

292
00:13:28,036 --> 00:13:31,836
Speaker 3: need sustainable business models to help great artists make great music,

293
00:13:31,916 --> 00:13:35,276
Speaker 3: so the more we can encourage and support artists having

294
00:13:35,476 --> 00:13:37,756
Speaker 3: really sustainable, good business models, the more we all get

295
00:13:37,756 --> 00:13:39,156
Speaker 3: to enjoy the richness of that music.

296
00:13:39,556 --> 00:13:41,916
Speaker 2: Well, Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business, thanks so

297
00:13:41,996 --> 00:13:42,756
Speaker 2: much for doing this.

298
00:13:43,316 --> 00:13:44,836
Speaker 1: I really really appreciate.

299
00:13:44,436 --> 00:13:46,156
Speaker 3: You justin this is a lot of fun. Thanks a

300
00:13:46,156 --> 00:13:46,356
Speaker 3: lot