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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Make Cookies. I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoy, and I'm still thinking about the really mediocre

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Speaker 2: cookies I made that I ate. All of my guest

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Speaker 2: today is Katie still? Hi Katie?

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Speaker 3: I'm back Hi?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, on this totally different day.

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Speaker 3: That is a totally different day.

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Speaker 2: Why I'm still thinking about the cookies. The cookies did

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Speaker 2: not last long enough for me to still be thinking

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Speaker 2: about if we had recorded on a sear But.

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Speaker 3: See if you're still thinking about them the next time

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Speaker 3: you record.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully all be thinking about better cookies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But someone's going to send me their punk house cookie

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Speaker 2: recipe and it's going to be better than what I had,

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Speaker 2: So I'm excited. But our producer Sophie, Hi, Sophie, Hey,

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Speaker 2: And everyone's say hi to Daniel, who's our audio engineer?

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Speaker 1: Hi? Danel?

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Speaker 3: Hi Danel?

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Speaker 1: What up? Dj Danel?

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Speaker 2: Our theme musical is written for us by one woman.

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Speaker 2: And this is part two of a four parter about

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Speaker 2: the East Rising, which was well, you should listen to

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Speaker 2: part one. I did the quick version of it. Why

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Speaker 2: would you listen to only part two? Is there something

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Speaker 2: be a weird choice? I know, I can't even that's

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Speaker 2: why I can't get into I've said this before. It's

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Speaker 2: like why I can't get into like comic books or

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Speaker 2: things that are not I can't. I have to start

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of things and work my way through.

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Speaker 3: And it's so overwhelming. When you saw you see there's

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Speaker 3: five hundred issues.

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Speaker 2: They're not this is not linear, it doesn't work, and

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Speaker 2: this one is linear mostly. I mean, actually, all of

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Speaker 2: history is a big, non linear, complicated web of a

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Speaker 2: story you can't actually sit down in, but you can try.

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Speaker 2: And that's my job because it's cool, little cool stuff.

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Speaker 3: Linear in the sense that you've planned.

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Speaker 2: Out four episodes, So that's true. We're on number two,

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Speaker 2: that's true. Where we last left our heroes, we only

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Speaker 2: talked about half of them when we talked about the

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Speaker 2: sketchy aar half the nationalists. Today we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about the socialists, which for some of you listening might

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Speaker 2: be the sketchy half, in which case we have different

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Speaker 2: conceptions of things. Today we're gonna start James Connolly, we

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Speaker 2: briefly introduced last time as the guy who was like,

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Speaker 2: what are you talking about? We're not into the red

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Speaker 2: wine of battlefields? What the fuck is wrong with you,

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Speaker 2: or specifically said blithering idiot about Patrick Pierce.

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Speaker 3: Oh love that.

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Speaker 2: James Connolly was born poor as fuck an Irish slum

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Speaker 2: in Edinburgh, Scotland. He went to work at ten. Contrast,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of some of the nationals are working

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Speaker 2: class too, But overall, this man went to work at

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Speaker 2: ten because he couldn't not because he needed to make

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Speaker 2: money for his family. He joined the army as an

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Speaker 2: old old child of fourteen years old. Oh boy, I

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Speaker 2: think he lied about his age. I don't think England's

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Speaker 2: not the best place in the world, but I don't

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Speaker 2: think they were recorded.

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Speaker 3: They also didn't ask for his identification.

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Speaker 2: Sure think kid, Yeah whatever, fucking Irish, Scottish whatever. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So he spent seven years stationed in Ireland, realizing he

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Speaker 2: was on the wrong side. An awful lot of Irish

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Speaker 2: rebels spent time in the British military, or the British

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Speaker 2: Colonial Service, or even the British aristocracy. So twenty one,

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Speaker 2: he's been in for seven years. They're like, go to India,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, go to fucking hell, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to serve in India. So he deserted. He married a

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Speaker 2: woman named Lily Reynolds and moved to Scotland and had

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Speaker 2: a bunch of kids, six of them. Did I mention

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Speaker 2: he was Catholic?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I well Irish Scottish, yeah like it or

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Speaker 3: it's almighty in Scotland.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm sure there's people who like really care,

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Speaker 2: you know, there's people are like, ah, you know whatever,

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Speaker 2: I don't fucking care. And as an aside, I complained

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Speaker 2: all the time about this on the show. But there's

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Speaker 2: all these histories of these like great men of history,

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Speaker 2: and it ignores their families and they're like the women

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Speaker 2: in their lives right, who are often as involved as

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Speaker 2: in whatever project they're doing as the man is. Because

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Speaker 2: a lot of these histories kind of come across like

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Speaker 2: these guys themselves also ignore their families and the women

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Speaker 2: in their lives. And sometimes that's true. But I'm realizing

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Speaker 2: more and more because the actually there's people who talk

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Speaker 2: about this, they talk about why sometimes people leave their

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Speaker 2: families and their personal lives out of it when they're

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Speaker 2: kind of like because there's a certain part about like

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Speaker 2: when you're like, oh, I'll be the figurehead of this,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of like I'll take the fall for this,

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Speaker 2: you know, sometimes in a literal way, right, You're like, nah,

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Speaker 2: I swear I'm the only one who I know, you

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Speaker 2: saw a hundred people with guns, but I was the

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Speaker 2: only one there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, but they want to protect their family to

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Speaker 3: a degree.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so more and more, I'm realizing that that's

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Speaker 2: happening more often than I realized, which is cool because

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest disappointments of this show usually is

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Speaker 2: when the men who get written about in history turned

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Speaker 2: out to be pieces a shit to the women in

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Speaker 2: their lives. And that's one of the primary ways that

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Speaker 2: I judged straight men.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, me too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, James Connelly had a family and he cared an

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Speaker 2: awful fucking lot about them. Yeah, and he he included

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Speaker 2: them in his work. He fought for them, and I

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Speaker 2: everything I've read is its good.

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Speaker 1: Like you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's also like basically canonized, you know, Like yeah,

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Speaker 2: so it's like but whatever, like I've you know, I

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Speaker 2: try to read contrasting opinions about various people and stuff,

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Speaker 2: and like, I read a fuck ton of like right

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Speaker 2: wing people writing about all these people too, you know,

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Speaker 2: And soon enough, James Connelly is a socialist and he's

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Speaker 2: the head of the Scottish Socialist Federation and he's working

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Speaker 2: with all of these different socialist groups. He starts off

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Speaker 2: as like more of a British style Marxist, which at

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Speaker 2: the time means he's more into like social democracy, slow

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Speaker 2: change through electoralism and all that. He does not stay

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Speaker 2: in this school of thought. Meanwhile, while he's working in Scotland,

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Speaker 2: he's already fighting for an Irish socialist Republic, his lifelong dream.

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Speaker 2: He's also a sober man, or as it gets written about,

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Speaker 2: he's abstentatious. Abstentatious, Okay, I know, I kind of like

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Speaker 2: there's all these like different words for teetotal or straight

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Speaker 2: edge or whatever in history, and a lot of people

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Speaker 2: in history I keep finding sober people and vegans. They'll

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Speaker 2: be called vegetarians or pure vegetarians sometimes, but I run

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Speaker 2: across a lot more of them in history than I

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Speaker 2: am originally would have expected.

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Speaker 3: That's interesting. Yeah, we just kind of gloss over that,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, it seems like an important fact, and I

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Speaker 3: think for him it's like part of this like you know,

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Speaker 3: when we're drunk, we don't get shit done kind of thing,

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Speaker 3: you know, or like our worst selves come out.

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Speaker 2: I haven't actually read him talking about it. I've only

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Speaker 2: read him like kind of complaining about in the like

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Speaker 2: different revolutionary spaces when there's too much drinking at them.

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Speaker 3: And definitely diffuses your revolutionary energy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or sometimes it's spikes it.

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Speaker 3: It can. But then you get a hangover the next

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Speaker 3: day and you're like, oh, I have to actually show up.

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Speaker 2: I know, and you're like in prison and you're like,

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Speaker 2: I don't remember throwing a rocket a cop. Take your

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Speaker 2: word for it. He was a fucker, yeah, yeah, probably,

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Speaker 2: I mean he did, but yeah, probably did. So he's sober.

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Speaker 2: The pay for Socialist Revolutionary Organizer. You're going to be

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Speaker 2: shocked to hear this. It's shit. It's shit pay really Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and when you have six kids none not easy to work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So he goes to the US for a while. First

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Speaker 2: he goes to travel and raise money for the Union

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Speaker 2: and you know, to pay for his own life and

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Speaker 2: family and stuff by going on speaking tours and selling

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Speaker 2: newspaper subscriptions to the Irish diaspora in the United States.

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Speaker 2: And he's giving talks all over the country about why

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Speaker 2: Irish American folks need to support socialism, which is not

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Speaker 2: popular at the time, you know, I mean the Irish

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Speaker 2: American diaspora leans slightly conservative. Yeah, he misses the shit

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Speaker 2: out of his family. He writes his wife letters about

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Speaker 2: how fucked up America is for having stolen all the

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Speaker 2: land from indigenous people. Because this guy can't miss this

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Speaker 2: is like the late nineteenth century, you know, he sure

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Speaker 2: can't live in an unlucky and hard life. One of

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Speaker 2: the times, while he's in the US, his eldest daughter

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Speaker 2: dies tragically in a fire. While he is away, He's

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Speaker 2: gone back to the US, to Troy, New York, and

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Speaker 2: he's setting up for his family to emigrate there because

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Speaker 2: he's like, well, this is where I can have a

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Speaker 2: better life for my kids. This is where they can

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Speaker 2: be educated better than they would be in the Irish

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Speaker 2: slum of Edinburgh, you know. And one of his daughters dies,

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Speaker 2: and I think this haunts him for the rest of

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Speaker 2: his life. His family moves with him to Troy, New York,

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Speaker 2: and at least two of his daughters, Nora and Fiona,

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Speaker 2: find work pushing shirt collars around the city and big crates. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: you know that Troy, New York was called Collar City

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Speaker 2: Coller City, and it was where all the shirt collars

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Speaker 2: were being made, and the shirt collar Worker Union was

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Speaker 2: the first all woman union in history in US history. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: it was found in eighteen sixty four by a nineteen

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Speaker 2: year old woman who worked the shirt collar factory. But

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Speaker 2: by the early nineteen hundreds, the pay is shit for

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Speaker 2: his daughters, the conditions are shit. Workers aren't allowed to

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Speaker 2: talk to each other. The Protestant Irish get all the

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Speaker 2: managerial jobs and the Catholics get all the worst jobs.

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Speaker 2: Is a big part of like, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: anti papist bigotry that we've come up a bunch on

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Speaker 2: this show. And Troy is the third time we'll bring

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Speaker 2: this up on this episode. Won't be the last. Troy

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Speaker 2: had the highest tuberculosis rate in the country.

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Speaker 3: Oh, there it is again.

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Speaker 2: It's a marker of poverty. Yeah, because of people living

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Speaker 2: in crowded and on hygienic conditions. Yeah, so his daughter's

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Speaker 2: won on strike. The first version I read about this

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Speaker 2: was like Connolly organized his daughter's workplace. I don't think

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Speaker 2: that's true. I think his daughters and the union at

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Speaker 2: the factory organized to that. Yeah, he supported them, he

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Speaker 2: raised money for them, and he also raised some daughters.

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Speaker 2: That sound kind of badass, so I know exactly right.

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Speaker 2: And local union politicians and the Catholic Church were backing

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Speaker 2: the owners, which is not a good sign when you're

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Speaker 2: trying to have a union and the fucking that is

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Speaker 2: like specifically fighting against like antipapas, bigotry and hiring practices,

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Speaker 2: and the Catholic Church and the local union politicians are like, eh,

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Speaker 2: but we like the money of the companies, you know.

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Speaker 2: So he did that thing. And then in nineteen oh five,

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Speaker 2: everyone get out your Bengo cards. Tuberculosis free space has

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Speaker 2: been checked off. In nineteen oh five, the union organizers

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Speaker 2: in the US did one of the coolest things I've

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Speaker 2: ever done. Time for a Bingo square. They founded the

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Speaker 2: Industrial Workers of the World. Yeah, they they fucking I

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Speaker 2: didn't try to put them into this episode. Industrial workers,

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Speaker 2: by the way, doesn't mean people who industrial work do

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Speaker 2: industrial work like foundries and like molten metal and shit.

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Speaker 2: It means entire industries being organized into one union instead

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Speaker 2: of like different. Prior to industrial unionism, it was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: the drivers of the train have one union and the

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Speaker 2: coal shovelers of a different union, and the porters don't

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Speaker 2: get one fuck you.

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Speaker 3: And you know this is a big change.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it changes the labor movement worldwide. And this

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Speaker 2: union we talked about way more than I ever expected to.

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Speaker 2: It was founded by anarchists and socialists getting together and

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Speaker 2: being like, fine, fuck it, work together. The Bolshevik thing

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Speaker 2: hasn't happened yet. There's no reason for us to hate

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Speaker 2: each other.

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Speaker 3: Like Irish nationalism and Irish labor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Kind no, totally, And I have a feeling that

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Speaker 2: because this is going to influence the shit out of

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Speaker 2: the Irish movement. And so now all the workers can

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Speaker 2: strike together because they fight together for the same contract

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Speaker 2: and they are specifically an anti racist union. They are

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Speaker 2: specifically a they probably probably say anti sexist union rather

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Speaker 2: than feminist union, but they're specifically fighting also for the

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Speaker 2: rights of women in labor. The black anarchist who is

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Speaker 2: hero of the first ever episode of Cool People did

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Speaker 2: Cool Stuff, Lucy Parsons. She has this quote that I

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Speaker 2: found about this that I am ninety percent sure as

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Speaker 2: a paraphrase and not her actual words, but it is

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Speaker 2: cool anyhow and a decent reflection of her and the

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Speaker 2: union's perspective. Quote. Every time a cleaning lady gets paid

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Speaker 2: less than a janitor for doing the same work. It

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Speaker 2: hurts all the women and all the men. It robs

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Speaker 2: women and keeps men working for low pay so he

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Speaker 2: won't get replaced by a woman. When Negroes or Jews

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Speaker 2: or the Chinese are paid less, it keeps wages low

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Speaker 2: for all. White Christians are paid a little bit more

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Speaker 2: and told that they are not exploited. And so the

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Speaker 2: IWW is like running around like all of the immigrant

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Speaker 2: groups and the racialized groups and the gender minority groups

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Speaker 2: that the regular unions aren't touching. They're running around organizing them.

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Speaker 2: Fucking cool at home, incredible. Lucy Parsons was one of

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Speaker 2: the founders of the IWW, and James Connolly does what

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Speaker 2: half the heroes on this show do. He joined the

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Speaker 2: IWW's the thing to do while you're in the US,

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Speaker 2: which means get out your red string. I can draw

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Speaker 2: a direct line from Lucy Parsons, a black and indigenous

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Speaker 2: woman born a slave who becomes an anarchist union organizer,

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Speaker 2: to James Connolly, one of the most prominent East a

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Speaker 2: Rising heroes, and therefore to lighting the fuse that trashed

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Speaker 2: the British Empire.

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Speaker 3: Yes, okay, thanks Lucy.

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Speaker 2: Connolly. He starts working for the Wobbles, that's what they're

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Speaker 2: called the IWW. There's a lot of arguments about where

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Speaker 2: that comes from, and it probably has to do with

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Speaker 2: their interracial solidarity and some of the ways that people

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Speaker 2: were mishearing some of the ways that they talked. He

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Speaker 2: moves to New Jersey and starts working as a sewing

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Speaker 2: machine factory, and in order to work there, and rather

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Speaker 2: in order to organize there, he learns Italian and German

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Speaker 2: in order to better organize with the workers there. Then

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Speaker 2: he's in the Bronx and he's selling labor newspapers alongside

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Speaker 2: some other Irish immigrants socialists. They formed the Irish Socialist

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Speaker 2: Federation and they have three basic principles. They want to

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Speaker 2: organize the Irish in the US to assist the revolutionary

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Speaker 2: movement in Ireland. They want to teach the Irish and

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Speaker 2: the US socialist principles, and they want to teach the

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Speaker 2: Irish workers in the US to cooperate with workers of

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Speaker 2: all other races and nationalities. So no notes, good goals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. The Irish Socialist Federation published a newspaper called

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Speaker 2: The Harp which taught basically, hey everyone, let's get along

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Speaker 2: socialism like Protestants and Catholics. Can we please be fucking chill. Also,

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Speaker 2: we need to support the Indian independence movement against the

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Speaker 2: British and atheists. We love you guys, but could you

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Speaker 2: like be a little bit less Internet Reddit atheist about it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like a talking point back then.

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Speaker 3: Internet read it right, specifically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it was like yeah, because the atheists were like,

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Speaker 2: anyone who is religious is a piece of shit and

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Speaker 2: a moron and can't be a socialist, right, okay, and

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Speaker 2: so like, but all these people believe in God, do

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Speaker 2: you want them to be socialists or not?

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Speaker 3: This like what, Yeah, come on, give me something. Let's yeah,

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Speaker 3: make this a space for people, a welcoming space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And that was this big thing. And he wrote

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Speaker 2: a lot about being both a Catholic and a socialist,

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Speaker 2: which is a very contentious thing at the time, And

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Speaker 2: he mostly wrote about what I would call now I

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Speaker 2: would say he wrote about being like culturally and somewhat

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Speaker 2: theologically Catholic, but not like interested in the institutions of

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Speaker 2: the Catholic Church. He constantly railed against it whenever it

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Speaker 2: would wield power against people. But he has this quote

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Speaker 2: that I think more than anything else, sums up what

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Speaker 2: went wrong with the Irish Revolution a couple of years later,

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Speaker 2: and just accurately predicts the problem. Quote if you remove

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Speaker 2: the English Army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over

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Speaker 2: Dublin Castle, unless you said about the organization of the

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Speaker 2: socialist Republic, your efforts would be in vain. The green

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Speaker 2: coated Irish soldiers will guard the fraudulent gains of capitalist

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Speaker 2: and landlord from the quote thin hands of the poor,

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Speaker 2: just as remorselessly and just as effectually as the scarlet

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Speaker 2: coded emissaries of England do today. Yeah, yeah, you can,

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Speaker 2: you can relabel it green, but.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, say this. One thing I love about this show

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Speaker 3: is learning just how strong progressivism and different thing for

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Speaker 3: so long that people have been talking about these things.

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Speaker 3: And I'm always surprised by like, wow they're saying that

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Speaker 3: back then. Wow, yeah, specifically anti racist, anti sexist. Wow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, are we still having these conversations? But yes, no,

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Speaker 4: Like that's such a good point. And one of the

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Speaker 4: things that's really interesting is that a lot of it

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Speaker 4: went backwards for much of the middle of the twentieth century,

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Speaker 4: and like we'll talk about it a little bit later.

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Speaker 4: But like during the revolutionary period of Ireland you got

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Speaker 4: a lot of women who were involved in the government,

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Speaker 4: and then you don't until the late seventies.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in all of these revolutionary movements you'll see like

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Speaker 2: women combatants, and we'll talk about some more of them

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Speaker 2: that are gonna come up. We've actually already talked about

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Speaker 2: one of them. And then you don't for a very

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Speaker 2: long time, you know. But in nineteen ten James Connolly

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Speaker 2: and his family moved back to Ireland and the story

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Speaker 2: really gets going. But first what gets going is you

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Speaker 2: out to the stores in order to buy the things

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Speaker 2: and the stuff that make the things to turn me

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Speaker 2: into a hypocrite by talking about it.

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Speaker 3: Just you on this computer machine in front of you,

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Speaker 3: typing in the website. You don't have to go to a.

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Speaker 2: Store buy stuff dot com. Don't go to that. That's

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Speaker 2: probably a real site and it's probably probably probably bad.

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Speaker 2: But here's the ads anyway, and we're back. And one

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Speaker 2: thing I learned while doing this show all of this

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Speaker 2: I'm offscript again, sorry, Sophie. All of these old revolutionary

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Speaker 2: groups they all like sold newspapers and stuff, which is

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Speaker 2: like the podcast at the time, like the people would

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Speaker 2: read the newspapers for like the letters section right where

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Speaker 2: people would just like talk shit and stuff is like

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Speaker 2: the Twitter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was our Twitter.

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Speaker 2: They sold ads like anarchists, socialist whatever, you know, super

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Speaker 2: lefty newspaper sold ads And it made me feel better

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Speaker 2: because I only learned that while doing this show.

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Speaker 3: We've always had ads people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so goes back to Ireland and Irish leftists and

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Speaker 2: revolutionary history is entirely interwoven with how Irish responded to

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Speaker 2: the enclosure of the comments. We're gonna talk about Irish

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Speaker 2: leftism for a minute. We talked about this in our

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Speaker 2: episode about the Molly mcguires. Basically, in England they were like, hey,

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Speaker 2: let's form above ground unions and withhold our labor to

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Speaker 2: build power for the working class, which is cool. That

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Speaker 2: is actually overall a better strategy than we're about to describe.

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Speaker 2: The Irish faced with the same problem the enclosure of

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Speaker 2: the commons. Their primary form of solution was let's meet

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Speaker 2: at the pub, put on crazy costumes, including a lot

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Speaker 2: of cross dressing, and then go kill the landlords. Huh okay.

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Speaker 2: And they were approaches yeah, similar vibe, no, completely different

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Speaker 2: vibe and you actually get this whole thing. In Pennsylvania

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Speaker 2: did a two part are about it. The Molly mcguires,

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Speaker 2: where where you run into this like tension where the

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Speaker 2: English and the Irish coal miners are organizing together. And

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Speaker 2: basically like whenever the union is made illegal, then everyone's like,

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Speaker 2: all right, well, put on a dress and kill some otherfuckers,

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Speaker 2: and so like it really incentivizes them to keep the union.

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Speaker 2: It is legal because when you outlaw unions, men put

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Speaker 2: on dresses and kill people and that's good, and that's good,

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, first, yeah, in this context especially.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's an awful lot of names for these

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Speaker 2: an awful lot of these secret societies, and they're very informal.

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Speaker 2: Some of them are more formal. It's all scattered. And

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Speaker 2: also the Iris shouldn't write a lot of their medieval

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Speaker 2: and early modern history, so you only get what's written

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Speaker 2: by outsiders and what's written by the courts against them

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Speaker 2: and stuff, you know. But overall, the names that people

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Speaker 2: remember these secret societies the most are the Ribbon Men

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Speaker 2: and the Molly mcguires, And.

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Speaker 3: They're both great names.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: What's funny is the first one was called the White boys.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 2: It was not about the racial it was not about

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Speaker 2: whiteness as a racial concept that did not exist at

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Speaker 2: that time. Yes, just the white boys. I know it

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Speaker 2: is bad.

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Speaker 3: Oh is better?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Ribbon men's good. They're gonna cut you up.

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Speaker 3: And that's good. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So these tactics influenced the Irish rebels of the late

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Speaker 2: nineteenth century, the Fenians, who preferred the secret society model

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Speaker 2: overall to the labor union model. But you also get

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Speaker 2: unionism in Ireland. Another fucking returning hero of the pod.

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Speaker 2: This is just like the Capstone piece. I'll probably shut

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Speaker 2: up about Ireland for a while after this. Jim Larkin. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Jim Larkin is another returning hero of the Pod. He's

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Speaker 2: a big part of Irish Unionism. He's mostly famous for

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Speaker 2: trying to make Ireland free and socialist, but to our listeners,

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Speaker 2: he might be famous for helping run the Dill Pickle

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Speaker 2: Club in Chicago, which was a desegregated social club and

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Speaker 2: jazz club that didn't serve alcohol and helped create Chicago's

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Speaker 2: underground political and cultural scene at the end of the

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Speaker 2: nineteen tens, which he ran alongside an anarchist dynamiter. Fuck yeah,

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Speaker 2: but in the meantime, before all that, he helped unionize

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Speaker 2: Ireland alongside Connolly basically for until nineteen thirteen, nineteen fourteen.

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Speaker 2: It was like, kind of him in charge of this

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Speaker 2: union about to talk about and then Connolly is the

422
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Speaker 2: second in command, and then and then Jim leaves the country.

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Speaker 2: They and others they start the Irish Transport and General

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Speaker 2: Workers Union, which was a IWW inspired union, and specifically,

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Speaker 2: the thing it did that scared the shit out of

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Speaker 2: the political class, the capitalist class was that skilled workers

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Speaker 2: and unskilled workers were now in the same union. So

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Speaker 2: in nineteen thirteen we get the most immediate precursor to

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Speaker 2: the Easter Rising, which is called the Dublin lockout. The

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Speaker 2: workers were like, hey, we're like fucking starving to death

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Speaker 2: and dying of tuberculosis because the history of the world,

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Speaker 2: I swear to God, is the history of tuberculosis. Irish

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Speaker 2: deaths by TB were fifty percent higher than England or

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Speaker 2: Scotland at this time. Wow, and like those aren't Like

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Speaker 2: England's not just full of rich people. There's a lot

436
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: of poor people there.

437
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 3: There's a lot of poor people there too. Yeah, it's actually.

438
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 2: This really interesting thing where whenever the socialists would leave

439
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: Ireland or Scotland and go to the US, they'd be like,

440
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: the American poor has a higher standard of living in

441
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 2: that they have more stuff, but work way the fuck

442
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 2: harder and are like more fucked. Yeah, but then like

443
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 2: the Irish and whatever, the poor are just fucked everywhere.

444
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 2: And in Dublin they all have TV.

445
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 3: It's bleak.

446
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 2: Like two of our heroes this week have lifelong struggle

447
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 2: with TV and probably only survived to do the fighting

448
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 2: because of access to familial wealth. So it's mostly poor

449
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: people dying of it, right, Yeah, So folks are like,

450
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 2: we're going to do something about this. It wasn't just

451
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 2: about TV. But you know, as a part of it,

452
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 2: we have this new union bring us all together so

453
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 2: we can do a general strike, which you know, we

454
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 2: can do so much more because we have this one

455
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 2: big union attitude. This is fucking great. We love it.

456
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: Everybody loved it. No one had any problems with it

457
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 2: except for all the people but with power and money.

458
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, the people you would assume might have a problem

459
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 3: with it.

460
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like this this part just stays in

461
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 2: like classic no complications. This is like we're just strongly

462
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: in regular cool people territory, the great lockout. The richest

463
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: man in Ireland was this guy, William Martin Murphy or

464
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: is the press like to call him William Murder Murphy. Ooh,

465
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 2: if people to be fair, if people said that about me,

466
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: I'd be like, yes, murder is my middle name.

467
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd lean into it.

468
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. He was a press baron and an industrialist and

469
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 2: a politician and just like everything's shitty. He's just a

470
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 2: fucking classic nineteenth century Robert baron. Dude. He's a little

471
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 2: bit like a little bit lefty compared to a lot

472
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 2: of them. Right, He's fine with skilled workers having unions,

473
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 2: but unskilled workers. Oh no, that is a step too far, okay,

474
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 2: to make things messy. Not only is an Irish Catholic,

475
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 2: he's an Irish nationalist.

476
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 3: Oh yep, we are get in the messy territory.

477
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ireland for the Irish, just you know, with capitalism. Basically,

478
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: his position is Ireland for me, please, I want to

479
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: run it. Also, he calls himself Catholic, but his workers

480
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: got one day off in ten Like, I'm sorry, I have

481
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: you ever heard of the fucking sabbath? You fucking Catholic?

482
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: Yeah?

483
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 3: That doesn't sound super catholic, but a lot of times

484
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 3: people that are Catholic don't sound super catholic.

485
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 2: It's true. It's true. Also, sometimes his workers work seventeen

486
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: hour days, and he had a whole network of spies

487
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: and informers among his workers to like hear what they

488
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 2: were up to and see that.

489
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 3: It sounds awful.

490
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 2: He's a piece of shit. He's absolutely a fucking He's

491
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 2: an archtypical cool people bad guy.

492
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.

493
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: Not and that he is cool people. Although his middle

494
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 2: name is murder, so he's interesting.

495
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 3: That part's cool, but not because of him necessarily. Someone

496
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 3: gave him a cool nickname.

497
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like cool, like in that way that like

498
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 2: when you watch a movie and there's like a bad guy.

499
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't like him.

500
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes I like the bad guy, especially when they're

501
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: gay coded. I don't feel good about that. Yeah. Twice

502
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,959
Speaker 2: in my life, small children have looked at me and

503
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 2: turned to their parents and said, mom, is that a villain?

504
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 3: Well, Margaret villain kills jo I has a bring to.

505
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 2: It is It's true. It's true.

506
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 3: It's a vibe.

507
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to be fair, it was like and like

508
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 2: just a little bit of a beard, was wearing a

509
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 2: black dress and had like a little bit of makeup

510
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: and long dark hair. I looked like a Disney villain

511
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 2: because they painted Disney villains to look like me before

512
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 2: I transitioned.

513
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 3: Oh, are you the true the Disney villain archetype. Yeah. Yeah,

514
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 3: they owe you a lot of money.

515
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 2: I agree.

516
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, you should be getting some fat residuals for that.

517
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: I agree. I'm just going to join whategricultural groups are

518
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 2: fighting against Disney right now. I feel like that'll go

519
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: really well for me. I made a Current Events joke.

520
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: It's almost like a pop cancer joke.

521
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

522
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 2: So Murder Murder Murphy. What's his last name, Murphy, Murder

523
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: Murphy Murphy. He's like old Bill Murder Murphy. Him and

524
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: all the other bosses, not all of them, A lot

525
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: of the other bosses just lock out the workers of Dublin.

526
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 2: Like thousands and tens of thousands of workers are suddenly

527
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: unionizing in this general union, and so they're like, all right,

528
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: your workers unionize, fire them all and hire scabs. Don't

529
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 2: let them come to work anymore. They're fucking done. One

530
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 2: notable exception to this, this is not a beer ad.

531
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: Guinness didn't lock out their workers. Okay, they actually paid

532
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: their workers pretty well and they didn't lock out their workers,

533
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: including several who are in this union. However, they weren't

534
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 2: like totally on the side of the workers, and they

535
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 2: told their workers they couldn't sympathy strike. Okay, they did

536
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: that they would be fired, but they wouldn't be fired

537
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: just for being in the US union and it, you know,

538
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: and they would continue to negotiate with the union. Yeah.

539
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 3: Also, Guinness is delicious.

540
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: I know their founder for more than a century back

541
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: was against Irish independence. Well, don't like that, but that

542
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 2: was the one hundred years prior to all of this, Okay,

543
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: so whatever, we can't.

544
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: Wow, Guinness has been around a long time.

545
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like late seventeen hundred's dang, Okay, it is

546
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: really good. I really like their na beer. I drink.

547
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 2: I'm not abstentatious, but I'm not the fasiest thing, and

548
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 2: I kind of like an a beer.

549
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 3: So yeah, we're of an age. I don't know how

550
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: you told you are, but we're of an age where

551
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: that non alcoholic beer sure sounds better sometimes.

552
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely, like, oh, I can drink a beer with no consequences.

553
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: This is great, yeah, exactly, but there were consequences for

554
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: the resulting labor struggle. It was fucking huge. This was

555
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: the largest labor uprising in Irish history. I believe. Whenever

556
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: you see like the largest or the first or whatever,

557
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, I gotta see a lot more sources. But yeah,

558
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 2: all across Dublin the police started acting like police, which

559
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: is to say, well, you mentioned earlier about how Ireland

560
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: had a bloody Sunday, and I mentioned that they had four,

561
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: which is approximately four too many. I almost wrote three

562
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: too many because one of the bloody Sundays kind of

563
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: has a little bit of a back and forth and

564
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 2: like fifteen police informers get shot, but then like a

565
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: fuck ton of Irish civilians get gunned down by the army.

566
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: This is years later. This is a couple years later.

567
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: It's like nineteen twenty years. So I don't have the

568
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 2: numbers in front of me because this is some part

569
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: of what I'm talking about today.

570
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 3: But we're offscript again.

571
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, the first bloody Sunday was in nineteen thirteen during

572
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 2: the lockout, when the police attacked protesting union workers in Dublin.

573
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: They killed two people and they injured more than four

574
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 2: hundred people, just like fucking shooting into the crowd and

575
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: all that shit. And here you run into the tensions

576
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: between nationalism and labor unionism again because immediately when the

577
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: workers are locked out, when he starts coming in from

578
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: socialist unions in England, the British cooperative movement starts sending

579
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: literal tons of food on rented ships because they're like, oh,

580
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: workers need our help. We're workers, Our fucking loyalty is

581
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: to our class, not our fucking country. And there's another

582
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: tactic that syndicalists used to great effect very recently at

583
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: this time, which I've talked about, not just in the

584
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: episode about the Battle of Cable Street, but even talked

585
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: about I think last episode I did, because it's so

586
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 2: fucking cool when it keeps coming up, which is that

587
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: when the Irish dock workers were starving in London during

588
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 2: a strike, the syndicalists organized that the kids of the

589
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: starving dock workers would get taken care of and literally

590
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: raised for about a year or so in the homes

591
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: of the Jewish like tailors. Okay, and later this defeats

592
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: British fascism because when the fascists are like Hey, Irish,

593
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: you're white, join us against these fucking Jews. And then

594
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: they're like, are you fucking kidding me? Those Jews fucking

595
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: raised me a piece of shit. I speak Yiddish, die

596
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 2: you know, and they beat in the Battle of Cable

597
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: sit whatever. Anyway, this was a whole fucking I swear

598
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: to God that's not trying to just make this an

599
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: ad for every episode I've ever done.

600
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 3: But ye know it's good though. There's going to be

601
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 3: links to all the episodes referenced, yeah, and not so well.

602
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: You probably have to search them, but yeah, you're gonna search.

603
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: It's okay. So the syndicalists were like, hey, the Socialists

604
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 2: of England are ready to look after your kids because

605
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 2: everyone's starving because everyone's locked out. But the Catholic Church

606
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: was like, no, you can't do that. Your kids will

607
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: become atheists and Protestants and that's worse than starving to death.

608
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 2: We're the Catholic Church. Yeah, So nationalism, or particularly in

609
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: this case, the church, worked against internationalism that could have

610
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: helped the strike. The final seal of the not winning

611
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 2: of this strike was that the English workers didn't go

612
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: so far as to sympathy strike that was like, they

613
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: were like, oh, maybe we'll sympathy strike and if they

614
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: had managed to write, if the if the working class

615
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: of the of Ireland and fucking England had struck together,

616
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 2: it could have fucking changed more than this arising.

617
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

618
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: But in the end the English workers were like, that's

619
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: not happening. We don't want to starve too, Yeah, and

620
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: the strike collapsed. Most workers signed I won't unionize promises

621
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: to get their jobs back and went back to work.

622
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: I've read other accounts that say that this ended in

623
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: more of a draw. I think those are kind of optimistic,

624
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 2: but they point out that the status quo survived, but

625
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: so did the union. This union is still around and

626
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: actually it's not even at its peak. I think it

627
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: peaks s later I remember when nineteen twenties.

628
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 3: I guess in those terms, it's a bit of a draw. Yeah,

629
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 3: I mean, they didn't get the gains that they wanted,

630
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 3: but the union exists, so.

631
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. So during all of this, the workers did

632
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: form an organization that is going to change the course

633
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 2: of world history. They formed the Irish Citizen Army, and

634
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: their slogan, which is sick, is people will only be

635
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: free when they own the land they plow and the

636
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: stars in the sky. Their flag is the most Irish

637
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: shit ever. And that's saying something because there's already an

638
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 2: Irish flag with a harp on it. Yeah, their flag

639
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: is a plow made out of stars. It's the Big Dipper. Okay,

640
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: but in the US we call the Big Dipper and

641
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: apparently in the UK it gets called the Plow.

642
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 3: Oh I didn't know that.

643
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't either, and that's a that's a Wikipedia

644
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 2: level knowledge. But when I looked up a lot more

645
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: about this flag. So this flag's cool as hell. Before

646
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 2: you run out and buy one, know that this flag

647
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: has been used by everyone from the Irish Labor Party

648
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: to various incarnations of the IRA, including some of the

649
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: bad ones. So you might not be saying like, hell,

650
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 2: yeah the original synthicalists who fought in the East Arising

651
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: or coolest shit when you rep it, and you might

652
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: be saying something different.

653
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: You might be throwing supporter on something you don't want.

654
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a note to me and the fact

655
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: that I almost by one of these flags immediately after me,

656
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do some assides about some of these ica

657
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 2: fellow not even Fellows people. One of the founders of

658
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: the Citizen Army was his man, Jack White. Imagine an

659
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: adventurer with a fedora who had been in the British

660
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: Army named Jack White.

661
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 3: I'm imagining it.

662
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 2: You've got this guy. He looks like fucking Indiana Jones.

663
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: He is an archtypical nineteenth century adventurer.

664
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 3: I am actually picturing Jack White of the White Stripes.

665
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't I know the white stripe. So I

666
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: didn't know that dude's name. Huh oh man, Wait, his

667
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 2: name's Jack White and that's why they named it. Yeah,

668
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 2: I guess that makes sense. Yeah, So this Indiana Jones

669
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: motherfucker is on the side of justice. He's a Protestant hero.

670
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 2: He worked with our man Roger Caseman, who's the guy

671
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 2: who brought down King Leopold and as gay as hell.

672
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: He worked with him to get Protestants to back Irish independence. Later,

673
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 2: just to speed run this guy because I think he's

674
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 2: neat teen thirties, he goes off to join the Connolly

675
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: column in the Spanish Civil War in order to fight

676
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 2: against Franco and fight against fascism in Spain during the

677
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 2: Spanish Civil War. Right and then he gives up his

678
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: officer position when in the like Russian controlled Internationalist brigades

679
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 2: because he's like, well, the anarchists are way cooler and

680
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: they're doing way better work. So he like runs off

681
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 2: and like stops being an officer to go join the CNT.

682
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 2: So he's a cool guy. He's worth a side note.

683
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 2: But then there's a main character, Constance Georgian Markowitz. The

684
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: Irish Socialists were specifically feminist and were one of the

685
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 2: first organizations to offer equal memberships to women. And this

686
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 2: is a paramilitary organization. So this fucking countess born in

687
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: London to an Anglo Irish landlord father goes class trader.

688
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: Her father, as a landlord, tried to be like actually

689
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: kind of cool. He gave out free food to his

690
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: tenants when everyone was like hungry and shit, you know,

691
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: he didn't give them the land, so he's not that

692
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: cool but not that cool, yeah, but like bare minimum standards,

693
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 2: I don't know whatever.

694
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 3: Presumably she saw this and was like, okay, take it

695
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 3: a step further.

696
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: Basically that was like she was raised with a little

697
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: bit of a like help the poor attitude, but then

698
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 2: she was like, what about like really help the poor, right,

699
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 2: she has a Polish last name because later she's going

700
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 2: to marry a wealthy Polish guy from what's now Ukraine, Okay,

701
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: And her first political issue had been suffrage, right, she's

702
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: a suffragette. So she's like living these two lives. She's

703
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: part of high society. She's hanging out with the rich

704
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: people in Dublin and doing like landscape paintings and going

705
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: to like balls and things, right, and then she's also

706
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: fighting with the for the Gaelic League, the let's help

707
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: people speak Irish thing. She becomes Fred with maud Gone

708
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: and the woman who started the Daughters of Ireland, and

709
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 2: soon she joins the Daughters of Ireland. And she would

710
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: do shit like show up to these like revolutionary and

711
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: nationalist meetings still wearing it like she's like straight from

712
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 2: the ball. So she's still in her gown with a

713
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: diamond tamara cool and instead of people being like, oh

714
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: that's cool, they were like fuck you, you rich bitch. And

715
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: she's like, oh my god, people don't kiss my ass.

716
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: This is the best thing ever.

717
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, So she loves well, that's cool, I mean showing up.

718
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 3: I think their appropriators, but both are cool.

719
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think she's cool as hell. Soon enough,

720
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 2: she's starting her own paramilitary organizations. She starts a youth

721
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: scouting group called the Soldiers of Ireland that's like modeled

722
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 2: after the Boy Scouts, which was actually kind of paramilitary

723
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 2: at at start, and they actually pretty immediately are like

724
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: you're a girl, you can't be in part of this.

725
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 2: And then she's like fuck you, and they're like, oh, okay, fine,

726
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 2: and so it's like it's not magically easy. There's like

727
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: a bunch of times, even in the middle of the rising,

728
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: there's like women snipers and like ryan around doing all

729
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: this shit, and then they're like one of the guys

730
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 2: is like, oh, I wish you had been in my area.

731
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 2: It could have given the boys break from doing the

732
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: dishes and cooking, okay, you know, and she's like, I

733
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: just shot a cop. What are you talking about?

734
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 3: Follow us?

735
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And so there's like always this like tension

736
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 2: right with those like wildly progressive ideals that sometimes are

737
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: slightly harder to happen. But the Countess she's coole as shit.

738
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 2: She gets arrested at one point for telling thirty thousand

739
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 2: people to tell England to fuck off, and she's like

740
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 2: hoists banners with say things like dear Land, thou art

741
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: not conquered yet. Okay, because fucking Irish know how to

742
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: do some poetry.

743
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, this woman sounds awesome.

744
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 2: No, she's fucking great. And she sees the socialist Irish

745
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 2: Citizen Army and she's like, oh, that sounds great too.

746
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be a socialist too, so she joins, She

747
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 2: sells all her jewelry and goes into debt in order

748
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 2: to feed people and run a soup kitchen.

749
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 3: Money where her mouth is.

750
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, She designs the ICA's uniform and composes its anthem,

751
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 2: which is based on the tune of a Polish song,

752
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: because yeah, fuck yeah internationalist nationalism. You know. In her

753
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: writing she told women, quote, dress suitably in short skirts

754
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 2: and strong boots, leave your jewels in the bank and

755
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 2: buy a revolver. Okay, and like I have jewels to

756
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: leave in the bank. But like the fucking cool sentiment,

757
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: you know.

758
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 3: It's like exchanging for practical things, the things you need

759
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 3: to go fight this.

760
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, this thing that's coming, you know. Yeah, And she's right,

761
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 2: it's coming. I mean she's gonna help make it come. Yeah,

762
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 2: She'll make sure it comes. Yeah, she's in the rising

763
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 2: gun in hand. There is arguments about whether or not

764
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: she shoots a cop, but she certainly gets in trouble

765
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: as if she did. Later, she becomes the first woman

766
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 2: elected to the UK House of Commons in nineteen eighteen,

767
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: but she literally gets elected to turn around to turn

768
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: it down as a boycott of English politics. So the

769
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 2: first woman elected to the UK House of Commons was like,

770
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 2: I just ran as a fuck you. I'm not going

771
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: to be used.

772
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 3: I mean incredible, incredible sub Yeah.

773
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,919
Speaker 2: Anyhow, after the Dublin lockout and the Irish Citizen's Army

774
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: forms during this, Oh and there's also this whole other

775
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 2: thing where the Irish Citizen's Army is protecting feminist organizations

776
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 2: that are like getting harassed, so like they would attach

777
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 2: themselves to like bodyguard different women who are like getting attacked.

778
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: After the Doublin lockout, Jim Larkin, he's kind of seen

779
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 2: as like the main socialist guy behind me. He's the

780
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: leader of this union and he's like, yeah, I got

781
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 2: to get the fuck out of Ireland. And there's a

782
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: lot of arguments about why he did. It's like a

783
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 2: little bit avoiding persecution, a little bit burnout a little bit.

784
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 2: Everyone fucking hates him a little bit. He's just heartbroken,

785
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 2: you know. So he goes to the US and he

786
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 2: starts a jazz club. After first he spends the years

787
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: traveling around supporting, raising support friers, independence and socialism. But

788
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 2: later he starts a jazz club. James Connolly takes over

789
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: the Union and also the citizens Army. The Citizen's Army

790
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 2: that changes the world is fucking tiny, as one participant

791
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 2: put it again, way of words, with these people, it

792
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 2: was a subject of amusing jokes and quiet laughter, and

793
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 2: its actions were almost entirely ignored until the bud flowered

794
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 2: redly on the second morning of Easter Week.

795
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 3: Yeah whale with words.

796
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, unlike the ads which will be at completely different

797
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 2: volumes from each other and have too many things and

798
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 2: interrupt your your space in order to aggravate you into

799
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 2: buying products in a horrible way, which is why God

800
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 2: gave you the forward fifteen seconds and your how much

801
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 2: does coolers on media cost a month? Selfie shrugs, confused, Look,

802
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: and your dollars can get you into coolers on media

803
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 2: where you don't have to listen to it at all.

804
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: That's a good deal.

805
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, not knowing the price, it's a good deal for

806
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: your dollars.

807
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 3: Or listen to these ads.

808
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: And we're back a great So that's the Irish Citizen's Army.

809
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: It is not the only paramilitary organization that is going

810
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 2: to do the Easter Rising. There's also the Irish Volunteers

811
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 2: that formed the same year in nineteen thirteen. Why did

812
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 2: they form, you, ask in or Margaret, I am asking, Well,

813
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: most people start the Easter Rising story here, but I

814
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: wanted to start it more with all the wild shit.

815
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 2: England was considering giving Ireland this thing called home rule,

816
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 2: where they would give Ireland the right to be sort

817
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: of a state, like kind of like one third independence. Yeah,

818
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 2: and this was a big deal, and the Centrists in

819
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 2: Ireland were all about it, and the political apparatus of

820
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: Ireland was all about it. And this is like the

821
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 2: stranglehold on Irish politics. All of these like crazy rebels

822
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 2: are absolutely a minority, and so there's all these elaborate

823
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 2: political maneuvers that this is not the right podcast to

824
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 2: get into where I just don't have it in me

825
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 2: to talk about like how the House of Lords blocked

826
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 2: it twice. But then if it did a third time,

827
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: then it would work and et cetera. Right, there was

828
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 2: one chunk of people, though, who really hated the idea

829
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: of home rule, the Northern Protestants. Obviously not all of them.

830
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: Several of them are amazing Iris nationalists who are going

831
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: to fight and die for Irish revolution. But overall, as

832
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: a like voting block and an organizing block, the Northern

833
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 2: Protestants not excited. They're not excited because they're like, well,

834
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 2: if England gets home rule, the Catholics will be in charge,

835
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: and then they'll take revenge on us for how we've

836
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 2: been exploiting them for one hundred and some years. They

837
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 2: might not a phrase it that way, but that's where

838
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: they're hard.

839
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 3: To probably not, but you know, we can cut through

840
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 3: the bullshit here and be honest at this point.

841
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely So. They formed their own reactionary paramilitary organization

842
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 2: called the Ulster Volunteers. And what's wild about this They

843
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: formed this to fight England if England tried to make

844
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 2: them free. Oh, they were like willing, that is wild.

845
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 3: You're correct.

846
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: They were willing to go to war against England to

847
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: force England to rule them completely. You can't set us free.

848
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: You got me in charge of us. There are the

849
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 2: fucking Proud Boys of Ireland.

850
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little bit of what's the thing where

851
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 3: you're fall in love with your captor.

852
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 2: Boot licking Stockholms.

853
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Stockholm syndrome.

854
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out to me for doing that because of

855
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: a wonderful song.

856
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's okay. I did the thing where when

857
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 2: I don't know something, I laugh as if I got it,

858
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 2: and then I was like, fuck it, I'm just gonna admit.

859
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 3: It's a really good move and it works cool unless

860
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 3: you admit it.

861
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. I should have known that because of the bachelor's

862
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: degree I have in psychology.

863
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 2: But no. So these Proud Boys of Ireland, the real

864
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: smarty pants, they're like, there's one problem. They have money

865
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 2: and connections and guns because they are the empowered minority.

866
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: Right.

867
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 2: So, in response, a bunch of Irish nationalist groups, including

868
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 2: the Gaelic League, the Ancient Order of Hiberians, Shinfeane, the

869
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 2: Irish Republican Brotherhood, they formed the Irish Volunteers and they're

870
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: ready to fight back the ulcer Volunteers of our Home Rule. Basically,

871
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 2: they're not necessarily like we're going to fight England they're like,

872
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 2: we're going to fight this other militia, you know. I

873
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 2: have read a lot of different accounts of how many

874
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 2: people are involved in the Irish Volunteers, and they vary

875
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 2: by times twenty of each other. Oh, it's a wide range.

876
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 2: At the higher end, I've read that there's two hundred

877
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 2: thousand of these folks. There's ten thousand of them by

878
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 2: another account, which is still a fuck ton of people.

879
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: I believe that this two hundred thousand is the sort

880
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: of initial cores that is willing to fight the Ulster Volunteers,

881
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 2: whereas the ten thousand is the people who are willing

882
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: to do the fighting that's going to come later. That's

883
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 2: my best guess. Yeah, or people just make up numbers,

884
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 2: that's the other guess with the Irish Volunteers are not

885
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: nearly so well armed, but they're hopping mad. And the

886
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 2: formation of the Irish Volunteers at peels off a lot

887
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 2: of members from the already small Citizen's Army because they're like, well,

888
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: they're a bigger deal, you know, there's more of them,

889
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 2: and they're you know, have plunkets, land to go train

890
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 2: on and shit, and so there starts to being these

891
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 2: tensions between these two groups, and they're both armed, so

892
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 2: that could go badly spoiler It doesn't, but it could have.

893
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 3: Well.

894
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Meanwhile, there's the Women's Council, which is Kumin Naman

895
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: and they it's kind of interesting. Everyone else everywhere else

896
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 2: you'll read like Irish Citizen Army and Irish Volunteers and

897
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 2: they're always written in English. Kumin Naman is never written

898
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 2: as the Women's Council. It is Kumin Toman and this

899
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: grew out of the Daughters of Ireland. That and it's

900
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 2: an all women's paramilitary organization. It both isn't isn't the

901
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 2: Women's Auxiliary to the volunteers. It's complicated. A bunch of

902
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 2: them are suffragists and trade unionists. Mostly they're white collar

903
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 2: like kind of middle class, but a lot of them

904
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 2: are working class as well. So things are looking real

905
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 2: spicy in Ireland. What could happen? I mean, I already

906
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: told you at the top what ends up happening, but

907
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 2: exactly how spicy they'll get. And you get to hear

908
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: all of these pretty fucking cool stories and you get

909
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 2: to hear about them next.

910
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 3: Week, oh, next week. Yeah, Oh, we got through this

911
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 3: one fast. Well, I guess maybe not that fast. This

912
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 3: is so enjoyable.

913
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:28,280
Speaker 2: Thanks.

914
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 3: I can't wait to hear about these stories next week.

915
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 2: I can't.

916
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 3: I have been taking notes. I'm not well. See if

917
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,439
Speaker 3: they carry me through. We've got a few days before

918
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 3: we're recording the rest. But I'm like, I'll be going like, oh, yeah,

919
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 3: this one.

920
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 2: I do a lot of things where I like, because

921
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: of my brain and how I don't remember names and things, well,

922
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: just like even for myself, I just assume that the

923
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: audience might have a similar method of brain work as me.

924
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 2: So I do a lot of things where like I'll

925
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 2: give you the countess his name, and then from forever

926
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: on she's the countess, and like she's the countess, and

927
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 2: like that help I'll use a lot of like this

928
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: is why, you know, i'd be like these guys, the

929
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 2: socialists blah blah blah, you know, because because it's complicated,

930
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 2: and like I don't like when people just assume that

931
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,479
Speaker 2: everyone can remember all of this shit.

932
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 3: No, So yeah, it's very helpful for me. Also me

933
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 3: literally the activity of jotting down notes helps me as well. Yeah,

934
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 3: but I've never become a great note taker. I mean,

935
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 3: I'll have someone's name and then draw bubbles around it

936
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 3: and then have arrows going to this person in that

937
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 3: and then in their arrow coming back around. It's not

938
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 3: something anybody else could ever look at.

939
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 2: And there's all these hards next to James Connolly and

940
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: the Countess.

941
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, there are hearts next that. Uh huh.

942
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, if people want to see the other stuff

943
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 2: you take notes about, like their events, they can listen

944
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 2: to even more news.

945
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, they sure can. You can listen to even more news.

946
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 3: You can watch our YouTube show some More News, which

947
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 3: you do with Cody Johnston. And that's it. That's where

948
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,760
Speaker 3: you can see my stuff currently. Hell yeah, hell yeah.

949
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 2: Well, if you want to see more of my stuff,

950
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 2: I actually wrote if you want to almost like spoilers

951
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 2: for next week, this week's substack. I posted it today

952
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 2: as a recording, not today as when you listen to it,

953
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 2: so it's actually last week substack for you all out

954
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 2: there in future land. I actually ended up writing a

955
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 2: little bit more about the personal side of Easter Rising

956
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: and my interactions with my family around my uncle who

957
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 2: fought in the rising and stuff like that, and so

958
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 2: it's beautiful and that's and that's that's a public post.

959
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: It's just more personal than my usual public posts, and

960
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 2: so you can read that for free. It's probably called

961
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 2: The Rising or something. I don't remember the names of

962
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 2: the things.

963
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 5: Should I read it this weekend or should I wait

964
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 5: till after we record? I mean most I talked about Yeah, yeah,

965
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 5: But so you can read that. You can follow me

966
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 5: on substack for free. You can also follow me on

967
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 5: substack for paid if you want more personal stuff. And

968
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 5: you can listen to other cool Zone media shows. I

969
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 5: really like them. There's a bunch of new ones that

970
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 5: are going to be coming out also. I want to hood.

971
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 5: Politics with Prop is sort of rebranded this year, just

972
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 5: literally in terms of like logo and stuff. It's still

973
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 5: all the same great content and it's one of my

974
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 5: favorite go to current event shows and I highly recommend it.

975
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 5: And that's what I have for plugs. Sophie's are great plugs.

976
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 1: I want to plug an article that my business partner,

977
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: Robert Evans wrote for Rolling Stone that came out recently.

978
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 3: It's called the Cult of AI.

979
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: We also have a two parter and Behind the Bastards

980
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 1: that kind of covers it. The article is really, really,

981
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: really incredible and I'm very proud of him, so check

982
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: that out.

983
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's unstoppable, isn't it.

984
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 2: It's my guy and we'll talk to you next week.

985
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

986
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

987
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out

988
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

989
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: your podcasts.