1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brading. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They called 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission Controlled Decond. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: want you to know. Today, we're focusing on the story 10 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: of one man, a single individual, a larger than life 11 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: figure who once upon a time dominated global news. To some, 12 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: he is an inspiring icon of free speech and transparency, 13 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: the kind of figure you'd build a statue for. To others, 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: he's a power mad super villain and the agent of chaos. 15 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: And to still others, many people, he's just dangerous. His 16 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: name is Julian Assange. Our last update that we did 17 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: on this show on Julian Assange was almost exactly a 18 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: year ago today. It was May ten, nineteen, and today's 19 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: May six. As we're recording this, so you know, we're 20 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: not going to spend too much time in the background 21 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: because previously we have covered basically Julian osangees earlier situations. 22 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 1: If you really want to learn that stuff, you can 23 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: go back to those episodes. But for for today, we're 24 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: gonna look at where he is now briefly how he 25 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: got there in the very very real, big picture issues 26 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: that his current situation is revealing. Do you guys think 27 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: what makes people think super villain is his like stark 28 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: white hair, you know, and it seems like a really 29 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: good um feature for a for a like a Superman 30 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: villain of some kind. Well, Ben Ben has his background 31 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: right now in the video chat we're doing, He's got 32 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: a picture of Julian back there, and to me, it 33 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: doesn't feel very super villainous. I mean, that's the that's 34 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 1: the issue. Uh. You know, we're recording shows while we're 35 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: several weeks into quarantine. But this guy, this picture that 36 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: I have in the background, Uh, he's he's a quarantined master. 37 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: You know, he's been on lockdown for nearly seven years. 38 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: So when they're pulling him out, Uh, he's got the 39 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: he's grown a beard that is as white as his 40 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: naturally white hair. And uh, I think I could agree 41 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: with you know, for especially for people who aren't reading 42 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: the specifics of what he does. If you just see 43 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: a headline in the picture of the guy and you 44 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: like Bond films, uh, you might be tempted to say, Yeah, 45 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: that guy looks like a super villain. A lot of 46 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: it would go into dress too, Like if he wore 47 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: a turtleneck more often. I think that would up the 48 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: Bond quotition. But maybe I'm thinking of the earlier Bond 49 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: movies maybe had like a bionic hand or some thing, 50 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: and like a cat that he would stroke with that 51 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: bionic hand or a weird gun. Is that is that, 52 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: inspector gadget? No, what is that from? Yeah? Dr Claw 53 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: he stroked the weird cat with the bionic arm. Yeah, okay, okay. 54 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: Then there's also blowfeld in uh in the James Bond movies, 55 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: who also had a cat, or at least at the 56 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: at the very least uh. Dr Claw had a metal gauntlet, 57 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: but since they called it a claw, I like to 58 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: think it was like a bionic hands situation. So those 59 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: are those are some speculations, right, but let's let's get 60 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: to the facts. So here are the facts. The gist 61 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: of Julian Osange. You know, Julian Osange was born in 62 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: Australia in nineteen seventy one July three, specifically for a 63 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: full look at his biography and his early years his ascendants, 64 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: if you will please check out our previous episodes. Well 65 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: we'd like to give you by way of background. Now 66 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: is just a very high level look at what you 67 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: could call his career and the consequences of his career path. 68 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: So today, Assan just probably best known for his activism, 69 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: which inspired him to create the website Wiki Leagues in 70 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: two thousand six. Um. I think we're all pretty familiar 71 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: with Wiki leagues, but let's think of it as kind 72 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: of a one stop shop for would be whistleblowers and 73 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: leakers of classified documents and footage from around the world. Uh. 74 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: In theory, sort of a repository for all the stuff 75 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know, um, regardless of who 76 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: the they might specifically be. And Wiki Leagues gained international 77 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: attention in April when the organization released footage showing members 78 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: of the U. S Military fatally shooting eighteen civilians, including journalists, 79 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: from a helicopter in Iraq. Yeah, that was sort of 80 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: the the leak heard round the world. You know what 81 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: I mean, man, I still remember being in the fish 82 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: Bowl office at our previous office when that footage was 83 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: released and you and I discussing it almost immediately after 84 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: it came out. It was a very intense thing to witness, um, 85 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: especially being that it was not something that was ever 86 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: meant to to get to us as you know, the 87 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: American public or the world public. Right. Yeah, And uh, 88 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,679 Speaker 1: on a personal note, I missed the fish Bowl. Everyone listening, 89 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: I if you checked out our YouTube videos, maybe we 90 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: talked about it occasionally, but that was just so cool. 91 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: Other than being nearly impossible to film in it was 92 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: it was pretty cool. Uh, long story short on that 93 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: when it was it used to be a single person's 94 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: office and then uh we moved in and there were 95 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: like seven of us at one point six, six or seven, 96 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: and or at least six. Paul would know best. Paul 97 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: would know best. Oh yeah, that's right, Paul. Paul was 98 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: fish bowler as well, and this footage rocked not just 99 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: the fish Bowl but the world. And at this point 100 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: want to pause and give you a heads up that 101 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: we are going to be talking about some things of 102 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: a sexual nature, so this may not be suitable for 103 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: all listeners. Later that same year when he released the footage, 104 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: A slade was detained in the United Kingdom because Sweden 105 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: had issued an international arrest for over allegations that he 106 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: had sexually assaulted two women during his time in the 107 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: Scandinavian country. Yeah. Specifically, the allegations UH concerned the idea 108 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: that he had raped one woman and then molested and 109 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: coerced another, all during August ten when he was in 110 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: Stockholm to give a lecture, and authorities UM were very 111 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: motivated to question him about these allegations. Assange maintained and 112 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: continues to maintain to this day, that both encounters were consensual, 113 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: and this triggered an extensive court battle. Eventually, he ended 114 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: up UM seeking US asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London, 115 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: UH in order to avoid possible extradition to either Sweden 116 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: or ultimately the US, where his actions with Wiki Leaks 117 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: led him to believe he would not receive a fair shake, 118 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: much like Chelsea Manning who partnered with Wiki Leaks to 119 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: leak that earlier footage that we spoke about. And as 120 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: we know, Chelsea Manning was UH significantly demonized and the 121 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: brunt of some very very serious consequences. Yeah, Yeah, part 122 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: of Chelsea Manning's case. That goes into the fact that 123 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: Chelsea was a member of the U. S. Army. So 124 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: there there's some heavier consequences. But still you're right the 125 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: writings on the wall. Uh, julian As Solinge very rightly 126 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: thought that he would not get a fair trial, and 127 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: so it was that he spent He tried to get 128 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: to Ecuador proper, but he ended up in seven years 129 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: almost hold up in the embassy. And there were a 130 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: lot of media reports about him. You can see some interviews. Uh. 131 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: They they depicted him in ways that sometimes sounded like 132 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: propaganda or character witness stuff. Now, now, to be fair, 133 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: we have not ourselves spoken uh with Mr Sange, but 134 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: he does have a reputation of being a bit shall 135 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: we say, cantankerous, Like he'll walk out of an interview 136 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: if he feels it's unfair. Uh. He his bedside manner. 137 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: Some journalists find it lacking. But you'll see reports of 138 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: him like being a bad HouseGuest, basically, like he wasn't 139 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: cleaning up after his cat and that became How surreal 140 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: is that that became an issue in the embassy. Uh. 141 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: He also had two children during this time. He was 142 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: finally arrested by British police on April eleven, right after 143 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: the Ecuadorian president, Lennon Moreno announced v you Twitter again 144 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: that the country had withdrawn his asylum status along the 145 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: way Sweden withdrew their earlier allegations. But after he was 146 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: dragged out of the embassy and that picture that you 147 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: guys can see behind me, which is contrasted with what 148 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,599 Speaker 1: I think that's Game of Thrones? Which character is that 149 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: from Game of Thrones? I'm Master Lewin. Yeah, that's a 150 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: good call, I think so, Yeah, I think you're right. Um. So, 151 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: ultimately the UK court sentenced him to fifty weeks in 152 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: jail on May one, not for leaking documents, just for 153 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: jumping bail, for breaching bail agreements. And then uh, that's 154 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: when Swedish prosecutors reopened their investigation into the allegations of 155 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: sexual misconduct and assault. Yeah, and you know wiki leagues 156 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: over the years that it is been operating, both while 157 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: Julian Ossaunders was really at the Helm and you know, 158 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: doing day to day operations as well as when he 159 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: was in the embassy, and there were others running wiki leaks, 160 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: which it did continue. Um, actively publishing releases for a while. UM. 161 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: There were a ton of controversies that arose. You know, 162 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: obviously from the ones we've already outlined there, but countless others. 163 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: And one of the main ones that we talked about 164 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: that you know, the the Iraq War tape, that specific 165 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: video that was released. UH. It was a part of 166 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: a larger Iraq war release that was called the Iraq 167 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: War Logs. It was also called i think the Baghdad 168 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: War Diaries something to that effect. UM. So that that 169 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: tape was released in April of then the full Iraq 170 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: War Logs were released in October of and this was 171 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: a trove of almost four hundred thousand classified reports that, 172 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: according to Wiki Leaks and other people who have gone 173 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: through these documents, quote, document the war and occupation in 174 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: Iraq from the first of January two thousand four to 175 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: the thirty one of December two thousand nine. And this 176 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: is the thing we were talking about that UM, the 177 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: massive event. It was everyone talking about this. Multiple countries 178 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: and institutions weighed in about what needed to happen because 179 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: of this release, and really everyone, especially the United States, 180 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,239 Speaker 1: went into damage control because not only did this affect 181 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: how the US government and militaries were going to be 182 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: looked at. It also was going to affect how the 183 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: allies of the United States government. We're gonna be scrutinized 184 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: in the future. Um. It really was a big deal. Yeah, 185 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: it's massive precedent, you know. Um. And and there were 186 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: so many contradicting narratives when it plays so much attempt 187 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: to spin it was very it's very difficult to watch 188 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: history being made because history books make it seem so clean, 189 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: so point A to point B. But there there's so 190 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: many things that get lost in the shuffle. And that's 191 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: that's just one of the controversies. Right. We also know 192 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: that later wiki leaks, uh In leaked more than two 193 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand classified diplomatic cables. A cable here 194 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: in this sense is not like an HDMI cable or something. 195 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: It's and it's not like Comcast. It's uh it's a message, right, 196 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: It's a secret message that different embassies send to one another. UH. 197 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: And these these privileged communications might be intelligence on the 198 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: ground from an intelligence agency. They might be something as 199 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: small as like the uh ambassador to Syria said that 200 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: he is willing to work with US on this, but 201 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: I just think I just think he was trying to 202 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: get me out of the room, because the man has 203 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: notorious ibs. Like it's it's very frank, behind the scenes 204 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 1: kind of looks at stuff. There are things the governments 205 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: of the world do not want the international public, other countries, 206 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: or their domestic constituents to know. So it is not 207 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: by any means hyperbole to say that this fundamentally rocked 208 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: the world of diplomacy, and the repercussions are still reverberating today. 209 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: This did some irreparable damage to international relations. Yeah, I 210 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: mean if they think, think about like if you were 211 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: on an email thread with like somebody and then you 212 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: thought you had deleted that person temporarily from the threat 213 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: and sort of talking a bunch of trash about them 214 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: with your you know, cohorts, and then you realize that 215 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: that person actually was on the whole time. Not a 216 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: good look. This is sort of like a much larger, 217 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: uh scale version of that, because as you said, Ben, 218 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: I mean, these could just be very candid, little snippy comments, 219 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: you know, and it's not like it would necessarily be 220 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 1: stuff that would blow open the doors of like, you know, um, 221 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: any kind of conflict necessarily directly or any kind of 222 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: intelligence that would, you know, be just earth shattering. It's 223 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: just a bad look. I mean, diplomacy in and of 224 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: itself is about good bedside manner and keeping those relationships 225 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: healthy and stroking egos. And this would do a whole 226 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: lot of damage to break down some of those relationships 227 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: that a lot of these diplomats would worked very hard 228 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: to uh nurse and maintain. And by the way, if 229 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: you want to see either of these two subjects that 230 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: we just talked about, the Iraq war logs or the 231 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: diplomatic cables, you can find all of that. It's all 232 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: searchable on the wiki leaks dot org website. Just if 233 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: you're curious or you know you're feeling a little dangerous, 234 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: you can go check those out. Yeah, yeah, we should 235 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: say one benefit of talking about these past leaks is 236 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: that they are all available, know what I mean. It 237 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: reminds me of the streisand effect. You guys know what 238 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: that is, right, So the streisand effect is essentially saying 239 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: that once something is out there, once something is published online, 240 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: especially uh, it cannot be removed no matter how much 241 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: someone wants it to be removed. It's named after a 242 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: picture of Barbara streisand I believe that she asked to 243 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: be removed from the internet. And you know, we all 244 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: are familiar with the denizens of the internet. That is 245 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: the same thing as telling them please pretty please spread 246 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: this everywhere. Uh. It was her Malibu home as of 247 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: two thousand three. I believe that she was attempting to 248 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: remove that's right. And you could see the argument there 249 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: because it's like, hey, this is, you know, my personal 250 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: dwelling place. But this situation reminds me of something very funny. 251 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if I mentioned it to you guys. 252 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: When the Wiki leaks stuff really started hitting, but there 253 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: were in helonal emails throughout, uh the intelligence industry, which 254 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: is the right word, uh, and throughout the defense industry 255 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: where people were literally telling government employees, hey, we know 256 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: this is out there, it's on the news, it's online. Uh, 257 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: just so you know, you will get in trouble if 258 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: you read it unless you have the correct classification. And 259 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: that was such an attempt to like close the barn 260 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: door after the horses have stampeded away. We just didn't 261 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: have the legislation for this, and that's part of why 262 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: I rocked the world so fundamentally. And that's not even 263 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: we're not even talking about, right, but the emails, because 264 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: later Wiki Leaks released some twenty thousand pages of emails 265 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: from the Hillary Clinton campaign, uh as we'll call former 266 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: Secretary of State Clinton was running for US president, and 267 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: also emails from the Democratic National Committee. It is again 268 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: not hyperbole to say that these altered the course of 269 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: US politics in a big, big way. Yeah, it's true. 270 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: I mean the emails, which later became part of the 271 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: internet catchphrase. Uh, you know, but her emails explored and 272 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: expanded on multiple Clinton controversies that had already been um 273 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: out there in the public imagination. Um. And we we 274 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: discussed some of those early on in the campaign between 275 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, where we did Trump, you know, 276 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: the most popular Trump and Clinton conspiracy theories, and the 277 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: Clinton conspiracy theories are massive because they involved both her 278 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: and her husband, and the questionable relationship between the Clinton 279 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:42,719 Speaker 1: Foundation and its donors. Clinton's kind of you know, close 280 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: knit relationships, shall we say, with some very powerful Wall 281 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: Street interests. Uh, that became problematic, especially considering that she 282 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: kind of, you know, was trying to cast herself as 283 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: sort of the people's candidate UM and her incredibly close 284 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: ties with a very wealthy and powerful campaign contributors. Uh, 285 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: this is just you know, beginning to scratch the service. 286 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: But it's fair to say that the League's played a 287 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: huge role in the outcome of that here's presidential election. 288 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: And it also you know, I mean, I think a 289 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: lot of people looked at a Songe early on as 290 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: sort of this uh great equalizer UM, you know, and 291 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: trying to take powerful people to task. And that's all 292 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: well and good if if the outcome is on your side, right, 293 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: And so I think he really became a hugely divisive 294 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: figure on the left when this happened, and it started 295 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: to feel like he was perhaps more interested in getting 296 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: the other side elected, and that became very confusing. Part 297 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: of his character really kind of uh complicated the relationship 298 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: with the public and Julian A. Sane I would say 299 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: two things here. Uh, I've recently listened to Glenn Greenwald 300 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: now of the Intercept, that's how he's best known currently, 301 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: but journalist who is discussing how Julian Osange really does 302 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: represent UM a largely hated figure on both the political 303 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: left and right within the United States, because of you know, 304 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: the people who would consider him anti war or anti 305 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: you know, military because of the Iraq war logs and 306 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: other things and the diplomatic cables. Uh, they very much 307 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: dislike him from that angle. And then from this, like 308 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: he said in the people on political left very much 309 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: dislike him because they essentially blame him for Hillary Clinton 310 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: losing the election. One commonality that we've seen through these 311 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: leaks is that it is attempting at least feels that 312 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: it's an attempt to show that behind the curtain scene 313 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: of the powerful people in every single one of these 314 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: that we just that we've already kind of mentioned here. Um, 315 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: and I guess when you are doing that and showing 316 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: a peek behind the curtain of all powerful people, you're 317 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: gonna kind to piss everybody off. Yeah. Yeah, agreed, very 318 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: much so. And you know, I want to ask you 319 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: guys here, uh just an opinion. You know, uh, do 320 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: are are you all of the opinion that this, uh 321 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: that this did significantly a pack the election? Or was it? 322 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: I mean, how much do you think it swung the needle? 323 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: I would say it swung the needle. I mean my 324 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: opinion is that yes, for sure, it did because it 325 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: changed the conversation that was happening on the news cycle 326 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: almost like right up into the election, right up until 327 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: the day of the election. It really did change what 328 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: people were talking about. Oh no, I mean, I think 329 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: that's there's no question about it. It absolutely hijacked the conversation, 330 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: uh in a way that Clinton was just not able 331 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: to put back in that Pandora's box, you know. And 332 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: it really, uh completely took away her power to kind 333 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: of steer the narrative um, which you know, will say 334 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: what you will about what whichever side of policy politics 335 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 1: that you you fall on. UM. She definitely was trying 336 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: very hard to cast herself in this light of being 337 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: kind of the people's candidate, of being this sort of 338 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 1: you know, even handed person that wasn't connected to any 339 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: kind of wrongdoing um, and that she really cared about 340 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: the everyman um for lack of a better term, And 341 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: this really kind of shattered a lot of that and 342 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: it made it at least whether it was true or 343 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: not at least the contents of the emails and the 344 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: nature of the whole private server situation, and whether or 345 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: not she completely flawned, flouted the rules and just went 346 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: her own way. It really robbed her of the ability 347 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: and her campaign of the ability to steer that narrative, 348 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: and it was just impossible to spin it at that point. Yeah, 349 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: it's the old The old saying holds true. If you 350 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: are defending yourself in any kind of political sphere, then 351 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,719 Speaker 1: you are automatically losing. The fascist were right about it. 352 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: The Republicans and the Democrats were right about it. It's 353 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: just sort of the part of the part of the 354 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: house rules of these terrible, terrible games. But there you 355 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: have it. Here's the takeaway. A single man, flesh and blood, 356 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: just as many of the people listening to the show 357 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: today are unelected, himself, was able to shake the world. 358 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: You can understand why so many powerful people consider him dangerous. 359 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: When we last left Julian Assange, he had been removed 360 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: from the Ecuadorian embassy. All indications appeared that he would 361 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: continue on a legal battle at a glacial pace, likely 362 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: from prison, as he sought to avoid extradition and probably, 363 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: in his mindpossible death in the United States. So where 364 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: are we at now? We'll answer the question after a 365 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy. What's 366 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,719 Speaker 1: happening now? Well, it turns out the conspiracy to expose 367 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: conspiracies has not worked out especially well for Julian Assane. Yes, 368 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: you'll recall how we said Assans was sent us to 369 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: fifty weeks in jail. Well, he was due to be 370 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: released in September nineteen um they specifically when his jail 371 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: term for breaching that bail uh ended and they just 372 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: didn't let him out. The Westminster Magistrate's Court noted that 373 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: there were substantial grounds for believing if free Assans would 374 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: make another run attempting to gain safe status um or 375 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: like Edward Snowden, make it to a country that would 376 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: not extradite him to the United States. I mean it's 377 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: sort of you know, it's it's the same way a 378 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: court assesses anyone's risk of flight. You know, they won't 379 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: grant you bail, or they'll make your bail excessively high 380 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: if they they or if if they even think that 381 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna flee, let alone, if you've got an established 382 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: pattern of doing that, which Assange absolutely had. So. Julian 383 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: Assange remains in the bell Marsh Prison in the United Kingdom. 384 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: His partner, lawyer Stella Morris, who he has two children, 385 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: with recently said quote, the life of my partner Julian 386 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: Assang just severely at risk. He is on remand at 387 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: HMP Bell Marsh and COVID nineteen is spreading within its walls. 388 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: So this is absolutely a topical update here. Uh Morris 389 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: sees more than just a Sane Assange's personal health. Um. 390 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: Uh in in jeopardy here saying that quote Julian needs 391 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: to be released now for him, for our family, and 392 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: for the society we all want our children to grow 393 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: up in. Okay, Yeah, I mean, you know, it depends 394 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: on what what your take is on on that particular 395 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: vision of society that a Sane espouses, you know. And again, 396 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: I mean a big part of his character is the 397 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: idea of like free speech and about you know, taking 398 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: powerful people to task. But he has absolutely has been 399 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: and remains a super divisive figure. Um. So let's talk 400 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: about a bigger picture issue here that we've addressed a 401 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: little bit in some of our COVID nineteen updates, The 402 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: risk of coronavirus and prisons. Well, yeah, it's it's certainly 403 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: a hairy situation for anyone who is being kept anywhere 404 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: within fairly close quarters to other human beings, especially if 405 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: there are any kind of sanitary issues within let's say 406 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: a prison like that um And in prisons across the world, 407 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: people are being infected with coronavirus because it only takes 408 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: one person to enter that closed system at some point 409 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: to then infect one other then exponentially grow that outbreak. 410 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: But in this particular prison HMP Bell Marsh where Juliana 411 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: Sane is at least two people within the prison have 412 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: contracted COVID nineteen or have they've contracted the coronavirus and 413 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: are dealing with symptoms of COVID nineteen. And prisons just 414 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: in general are pretty rough places to be with individuals 415 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: who you know, have attributes and possibly charges pending against 416 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: them for varying things of varying severities, and in you know, 417 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: these uncertain times, there are higher than average odds of 418 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: things like violence occurring within prisons where there's that kind 419 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: of fear of something like coronavirus or or or uprisings 420 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: or you know, maybe even riots, very violent riots occurring 421 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: within these prisons. Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely correct. In fact, 422 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: there are numerous reports already of riots about prison conditions 423 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: in the US and abroad, and in some kind trees. 424 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: Prisoners have even successfully taken guards hostage, not even necessarily 425 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 1: to say, hey, we're throwing down the prison walls, uh, 426 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: let let my people go, but more to say, we 427 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: need to bring attention to the pandemic blood bath that 428 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: may occur when we are locked in here like animals 429 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: for whatever reason. So this, this prison angle has has 430 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: a lot of fairly plausible conspiratorial aspects to it, because 431 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: you know, we've seen the kind of manufactured concerns that 432 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: pop up in other celebrity prison stories. Someone has a 433 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,719 Speaker 1: high paid lawyer, like someone working for Weinstein or something 434 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: who says, you know, he's very fragile. Therefore, even though 435 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: he's been convicted of these crimes, he should get some 436 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: sort of special treatment because it's the humane thing to do. 437 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: By the way, for R and B fans, R Kelly 438 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: is uh looking for the same thing, the argument being 439 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: that he has diabetes and COVID is gonna blow through 440 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,239 Speaker 1: prison systems. But in Assange's case, there's solid evidence that 441 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: his life maybe at risk more so than a Weinstein, 442 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: more so than an R. Kelly, because not as much 443 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: as a uh free Epstein, not as much as in Epstein, Right, 444 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: we should call that we should make the Epstein scale. 445 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: Uh if the you know, uh, fellow conspiracy realist, if 446 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: you have the time in the inclination, please feel free 447 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: to make an infographic of the Epstein scale the likelihood 448 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: of diet in prison. You know, I would I just 449 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: really quickly bed. This is a very interesting thing to 450 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: think about, because the reason Julian Assange is in jail, 451 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: you know, is officially because of jumping bail, but really, 452 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: when you put all of the math together, it's because 453 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: he had damning evidence against very powerful people, right, or 454 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: he was able to release information about powerful people in 455 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: the actions they take. But then you think about somebody 456 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: like Jeffrey Epstein that very likely at least allegedly had 457 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: the worst kind of evidence against extremely powerful people, and 458 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: we saw what happened to him. You know, who knows 459 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: if it was, like, we can't prove to you if 460 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: it was self inflicted or not self inflicted in his case, 461 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: But he was only in prison for a short time, 462 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: That's all I would say. Right, Yeah, it's very much 463 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: worth pointing out that plenty of powerful people once this 464 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: guy dead, uh, even if they can't kill wiki leaks, 465 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: which is also on the wish list. Oh, we should 466 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: note that, um, you know, the Trump administration is currently 467 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: attempting to extradite assage to the US. However, remember we're 468 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: very quickly going into the no real good guys morally 469 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: gray territory because the desire to gain possession of assage 470 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: transcends the growing stark ideological divide in domestic US politics. 471 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: Establishment Democrats want the guy under the jail or under 472 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: the daisies as much as establishment Republicans. He has very 473 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: few friends in Congress, you know what I mean, And 474 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of misleading. That's why I appreciate the 475 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: point you made nol earlier about people liking a hero 476 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: or calling someone a hero until their principles, whatever they 477 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: may be, run counter to our own principles. It's the 478 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: idea of like one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist. 479 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: That all depends on what side of the issue you 480 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: fall A lot of the times, you know, I mean, 481 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: certainly both sides can be guilty of what would be 482 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: considered negative acts or even atrocities, but still, in terms 483 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: of the way you view the means just defying the ends, 484 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: you could probably say, well, they might have done some 485 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: bad things, but they were now ultimately supporting what I 486 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: think is a just cause. And oh and we should 487 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: point out in a in a no way baby but 488 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: kind of moment, let me tell you what really happened. Uh. 489 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: The US is still kind of in damage control over this, 490 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: and has been since two thousand and six, so for 491 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: more than a decade there's been in damage control here 492 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: in the States. Uncle Sam says Assange is not wanted 493 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: because he um caught the US doing some bad things 494 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: red handed, or because he damaged the soft power of 495 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: the reputation UH abroad, or because he embarrassed the US. 496 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: They say he's wanted because he illegally endangered the lives 497 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: of informants a k A. Spies or assets, dissidents a 498 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: k A also possibly spies or assets, but maybe you know, 499 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: maybe sincere dissidents as well as activist a k A. 500 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: Spier assets, but hey maybe maybe activists UM in multiple 501 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: countries including of course rock Iran and Afghanistan. So what 502 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: what what gives? What? What is he actually going to 503 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: be charged with or indicted for? Do we know? Yeah, 504 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: there there is an indictment impending charges standing against Julian 505 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: Assange from the United States, and I'm gonna boil it 506 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: down to you in the way that Jennifer Robinson explained 507 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: it in a recent conversation with Glenn Greenwald. She she's 508 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: a human rights attorney and she's representing a Sange, and 509 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: she explains it that the the the charges essentially state 510 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: that a Sange was communicating had communications of some sort 511 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: with Chelsea Manning at the time known as Bradley Manning, 512 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: and that a Sange discussed with Chelsea ways in which 513 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: she could access highly classified materials in a way that 514 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: would protect her identity. That's really what it's saying. That's 515 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: the whole thing. A Sange was was in connection with 516 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: Chelsea Manning, and Chelsea Manning got the materials to him 517 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: and then he released them. And also, according to Jennifer, 518 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: there's a widely held misconception that's just kind of been 519 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: floating around and it started from this Department of Justice 520 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: press release that came out, um not that long ago, 521 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,959 Speaker 1: and within this release it falsely stated, at least according 522 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: to Robinson, that Assange was being charged with quote hacking, 523 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: so in some way using you know, a computer or 524 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: a system to access classified government materials and then get 525 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: those four Chelsea or with Chelsea Manning, because we you know, 526 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: we discussed Chelsea Manning is the person who ended up 527 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: getting a lot of that documentation that became the Iraq 528 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: warlogs and the tapes. Um so um. Just the last 529 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: thing here is that, according to Jennifer Robinson, within that indictment, 530 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: there is no allegation that Assane attempted to hack the U. 531 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: S Government UH in any way to get to gain material. 532 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: There's also no allegation within that indictment that he unlawfully 533 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: accessed any government computers or systems whatsoever. That's just, uh, 534 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: just to put it out there in conclusion. Um. The 535 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: the charges are that he had a discussion with Chelsea 536 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: Manning about how to hide her identity while accessing secret documents. Okay, 537 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: and then once once that kind of stuff proceeds, if 538 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: it does indeed proceed, UH, then will see those kind 539 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 1: of charges become increasingly specific as prosecutors explore, uh explore 540 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: their options. So this naturally leads us to the next 541 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: part of the update, which is this what's on the horizon, 542 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: will explore that after a word from our sponsors, we've returned. 543 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: So just a few days ago as we record this 544 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: peak behind the curtain interest of transparency. It is May sixth, Wednesday, 545 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: a lovely day outside in Atlanta, as far as I 546 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: can tell, Yes, I love it. I was writing on 547 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: the porch. I wish I could record out there. Uh. 548 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: Just a few days ago, Julian Ossange received word that 549 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: he will have to wait until at least September of 550 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: before a British judge will hear the US request for 551 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: his extradition. This comes to us from a possibly biased source. 552 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: To be fair, Kristen Fraftsman, the editor in chief of 553 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: Wiki leaks. Earlier, they said a video post stod on 554 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 1: social media that it's unacceptable and confirmed that Assange likely 555 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: asked to spend another four months at least in prison 556 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: and if a hearing does come to pass in September, 557 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: that means that he will have spent one year in 558 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: prison after being dragged out of that embassy on his 559 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: what was that on his charge of fifty weeks for 560 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: jumping bail. Yeah, that he was supposed to be let out. 561 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: It's what did you say, September last year? Yes, yeah, 562 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:33,240 Speaker 1: that's correct. Uh. And additionally the editor there at Wiki 563 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: leaks said he was not able to set a Sange, 564 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: that is, was not able to attend some earlier hearings 565 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: via video link because he was unwell. So that gives us, 566 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: unless that spin, that gives us a pretty solid argument 567 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,959 Speaker 1: that at least in his case, the health concerns are real. Uh. 568 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: You know, reporters said he was deteriorating mentally already when 569 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: he was in the Ecuadorian embassy. So the fate of 570 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: a Sange may actually set a legal precedent in the 571 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: United States. Regardless of where you stand with these leaks 572 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: in particular, it can't really be denied that they pushed 573 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: the public in multiple countries uh to hold politicians accountable 574 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: and well attempt to do so. Anyway. Imagine a world 575 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: where any disclosure, even if it's incredibly vital to the 576 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: public interest, becomes a crime. And that's like dystopian kind 577 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: of stuff right there. Whistleblower protections, which have historically been 578 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: better on paper than in actual practice, have truly eroded 579 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,399 Speaker 1: in the time since uh Asange was kind of at 580 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: his peak. Consider that other countries like China and Russia 581 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:48,240 Speaker 1: have already started intimidating civilians for quote rumormongering end quote 582 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: as we've discussed in the COVID nineteen episodes. Uh, the 583 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 1: scientists that you know reported the early signs of that 584 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: virus was accused of that very thing and essentially black 585 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: bald and treated like a criminal. Um And that was 586 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: a big part of what we can now call some 587 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: form of cover up. Yeah. Yeah, And Russian doctors keep 588 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: falling out of windows. Uh. One fell out of a 589 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: window after he made a video update whereas protesting being 590 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: forced to work despite not having ppe personal protective equipment 591 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: and despite having tested positive for COVID, they still wanted 592 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: him to work. And then just a few days later 593 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: he released a video where he said that was all crazy. 594 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: He denied any of those claims, Everything was fine, and 595 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: then he fell out of a window. I don't know 596 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: if you guys would keep a track of that, but yeah, 597 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: make no mistake, there is a war for information. That 598 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,839 Speaker 1: war is very old, but now there is a war 599 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: on information. M M. This is very true and and 600 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 1: you can see that depending on the outcome of Julian 601 00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: Osange's situation, this could have a prem impact on the 602 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,919 Speaker 1: future of potential whistle blowers like you were saying, noal 603 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: and it has a lot to do with the fact 604 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: that if you decide to leak information somewhere and you 605 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: could be hunted down essentially by the government that you 606 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: were blowing the whistle on. I mean it would it 607 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: would really set a precedent for that. And the big 608 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: problem here it expands from the individual whistle blower to 609 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: the outlets, the major news outlets that cover stories about 610 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: leaked information. If if you were recalled during the Iraq 611 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: warlogs saga of as well as the diplomatic cables, the 612 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: DNC emails, these were major releases done in conjunction with 613 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: with newspapers. It wasn't just wiki leaks putting out information 614 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: in the with the Iraq warlogs that that was The Guardian, 615 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: that was the New York Times, I think to Spiegel 616 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: released part of that information. They all kind of segmented 617 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: it out. It was all, you know, major news outlets 618 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: releasing leaked material via wiki leaks. And this is something 619 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: we have to remember. Major news outlets, let's say, like 620 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: The Guardian or the New York Times, these news outlets 621 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 1: have on their sites easily accessible methods for anyone to 622 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 1: anonymously provide newsworthy information to those outlets. Essentially, if we're 623 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: thinking about it in this framework aiding and abetting potential whistleblowers, 624 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: and we have two examples of this. You can go 625 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: to the Guardian dot com slash secure drop right now 626 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: to check out the way that they want you to 627 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 1: give them leaked information or to leak them information securely 628 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: and anonymously. You can also go to ny Times dot 629 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: com slash tips to see how the New York Times 630 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: wants you to do it. They're they're suggesting that you 631 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 1: use what's Happened signal and secure drop to make contact 632 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: with them and then to send them materials. And you know, 633 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: if the whistle blower individual falls because of Julian Sange's situation, 634 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: it would also make sense that perhaps the you know 635 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: journalism is the way we understand it, leaked important information 636 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,480 Speaker 1: would become in some ways illegal. Yeah, and then maybe 637 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 1: your past actions could become prosecutable offenses. There's one thing 638 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 1: I did this on a different show. I wanted to 639 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 1: mention this to you guys because I thought you would 640 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 1: find it interesting and hopefully you will too, fellow listeners. Uh, 641 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 1: speaking of censorship, a completely different person who perhaps then 642 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,879 Speaker 1: sees themselves as a whistleblower has run into what they 643 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,719 Speaker 1: say as a conspiracy of censorship. Uh. David Ike just 644 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: had his YouTube channel deleted, will not be going back up. 645 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:05,280 Speaker 1: I think around nine hundred thousand subscribers. His His Facebook 646 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: page was also deleted because the tech companies are instituting 647 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:17,399 Speaker 1: a ban against anybody spreading uh misinformation about the coronavirus. So, 648 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, there are a lot of people 649 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: who are saying, yes, you have to do this because 650 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: he's endangering lives, which is similar to the argument made 651 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: by the US government about Assange. And then you have 652 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: people who are saying, you know, I might not agree 653 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: with this guy at all, but he is, uh, he 654 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: is exercising free speech. It's a little sticky there, you know, 655 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: when we start to navigate the idea of public safety, censorship, 656 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:48,800 Speaker 1: free speech, because with with great speech comes great responsibility, 657 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: does it not? And uh, you know you have to 658 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 1: ask yourself about um the platform there. But but tech 659 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: companies are a little different, of course, because it's their sandbox. 660 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 1: They make the rules, they can do whatever they want. 661 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 1: I just think it's interesting that we're seeing more and 662 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:09,880 Speaker 1: more of these um, these information conflicts rising to the 663 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: four and this is in no way an endorsement of 664 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: David Ike assuredly, yes, Um, I just wanted to bring 665 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: this up. We're talking about kind of the control of 666 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 1: speech on outlets like that, on platforms such as YouTube. 667 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: I just wanted to mention to you guys. I don't 668 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,840 Speaker 1: know if you saw the email come through. We got 669 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 1: contacted by our old pals at All Time Conspiracies. Some 670 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,400 Speaker 1: of you older conspiracy realists may remember a time on 671 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: YouTube when we made some videos with the guys on 672 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: this channel called All Time Conspiracies, and I did a 673 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: little catching up with them, and they've written back to us. 674 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: They went through the exact same issues we did with 675 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:02,440 Speaker 1: the YouTube YouTube algorithm and their content being suppressed essentially 676 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: because they were talking about political issues, conspiratorial issues, um, 677 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: and they ended up having to shutter their channel and 678 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,800 Speaker 1: they've moved on. So if if anyone is interested they 679 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,319 Speaker 1: want to do an episode with us, they've got a 680 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 1: podcast now similarly to ours. So I thought that might 681 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: be a fun match up mash up in the podcast 682 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,800 Speaker 1: world now instead of on video, just to talk about 683 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,320 Speaker 1: what happened to our YouTube channels. I would be interested 684 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,719 Speaker 1: in that for sure, what do you think? Absolutely? Yeah, no, 685 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: I mean always down for a good collab with like 686 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: minded folks. And this leads us to one more potential development. 687 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: So we are at a we are at a branch 688 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 1: were possible forks in the road, and as Yogi bear 689 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,319 Speaker 1: up the old announcer famously said, when you come to 690 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: a fork in the road, take it. Sorry than that 691 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: jokes for you, dad. But but this, um, we do 692 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: see some very important, mutually exclusive things on the horizon. 693 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 1: One of these things is going to happen to Julian Assange. 694 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,800 Speaker 1: One He may die in prison before that extradition hearing 695 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,479 Speaker 1: occurs or before it is carried through, and then for 696 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 1: some very powerful people, a big part of the problem 697 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: would have solved itself. However, we have to remember, uh, 698 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,120 Speaker 1: you know, um, like Ja Gavera famously said, and his 699 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: last words, shoot fool, you're only killing a man. Uh, 700 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,000 Speaker 1: Wiki leaks wouldn't die if Assange did, it would continue. 701 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,600 Speaker 1: It's not a perfect system, and there are allegations, as 702 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,759 Speaker 1: I believe one of us mentioned earlier, that it has 703 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,960 Speaker 1: a shifting agenda of its own, you know, including pretty 704 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: serious allegations that have partnered with Russia. To wage some 705 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,319 Speaker 1: sort of asymmetrical information warfare against the US. So one 706 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 1: possible occurrence is that it dies in prison. End of story. 707 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,839 Speaker 1: And we're talking there, you know, about one person dying 708 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,759 Speaker 1: in the movement continuing. We're also talking earlier about maybe 709 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: it would prevent other whistle blowers from coming forward. But 710 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,360 Speaker 1: if he did die in prison, the other scenario is 711 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: that maybe more whistleblowers come forward because they see it 712 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:24,480 Speaker 1: almost as a martyrdom situation, where the way he was 713 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 1: treated and how it all went down, they want to 714 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,080 Speaker 1: stick it to the man essentially and continue in that 715 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: legacy outside of wiki leaks. M hm. And now we 716 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,759 Speaker 1: have to ask ourselves, what about the precedence. If he 717 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: goes to trial, it's going to be even more crucial, 718 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,279 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Then, I mean here, let's 719 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: be a little bit idyllic, at least from his perspective. 720 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: What if Assange is able to stay in the United 721 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,799 Speaker 1: Kingdom the same way for instance, that Edward Snowden is 722 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:02,319 Speaker 1: currently staying in Russia. Uh, it probably won't happen. What 723 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,479 Speaker 1: if he's able to escape and live on the run, 724 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: you know, like that Beatles? Is it Beatles or is 725 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 1: just Paul McCartney banned on the run. Yeah, so what 726 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 1: if he pulls that just for the rest of his life? 727 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 1: Uh San John the run. There we go. Yeah, we'll 728 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: figure out who Sailor Sam is in that. In that regard, 729 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,319 Speaker 1: I guess it's uncle Sam. But here's the question. What 730 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,120 Speaker 1: if what if a sange goes to a U S Court, 731 00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 1: gets extra diet, it goes to trial and gets found 732 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,239 Speaker 1: somehow not guilty, it gets off scott free. Don't worry 733 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,480 Speaker 1: about that too much because that is almost definitely not 734 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,080 Speaker 1: going to happen. Yeah, he would end up going to 735 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,880 Speaker 1: jail again, right, And I could I could see a 736 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,920 Speaker 1: scenario like that, Ben, where he does uh end up 737 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,319 Speaker 1: going to jail in the United States and then just 738 00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,160 Speaker 1: goes away and then every once in a while, one 739 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,680 Speaker 1: journalist from one outlet will write a piece on it 740 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 1: once a year. Yeah. Well, you know, I think one 741 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:13,800 Speaker 1: thing we can all agree on, Fellas, is that uh 742 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,919 Speaker 1: Wings has an enormous fan base, you know, an army 743 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:23,080 Speaker 1: across the world, and they probably won't let this story 744 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: die because you know, now that I'm thinking back on it, 745 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,480 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that the entire catalog of Wings is 746 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,320 Speaker 1: terribly prescient to the career and the controversy that is 747 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,320 Speaker 1: Julian Assange. I've got I've got to look out the lyrics. 748 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,799 Speaker 1: This goes deep. We need to get Paul McCartney on 749 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,359 Speaker 1: the phone. Who who can call Paul McCartney, Matt Noel, 750 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 1: can you do it? You know it's funny you should 751 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,479 Speaker 1: say that. I'm actually working on a podcast with Paul 752 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:50,440 Speaker 1: McCartney's guitarists. So may well have an end to to 753 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,640 Speaker 1: Macca nice perfect They call him Macca. They call him 754 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: Macca like the guitarist calls in Mecca. That's what that's 755 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:02,480 Speaker 1: a big big Paul fans call. I'm like muck Heartney Macca. Okay, 756 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: it's like a pet name or like McDonald's slang for 757 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:15,719 Speaker 1: in Australiaca. So so that's where we are now, and 758 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,239 Speaker 1: to you from failing hands we throw the torch be 759 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,759 Speaker 1: yours to hold it high. If you break faith with us, 760 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,160 Speaker 1: who die, we shall not sleep. Though poppies grow in 761 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 1: flanders Field went on a little longer than it needed to. Uh, 762 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,600 Speaker 1: but but you get the picture. We want to know 763 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: two things from you. First, what do you think should 764 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,319 Speaker 1: happen to Julian Assange and others like him or are 765 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,120 Speaker 1: those who come after him? Secondly, what do you think 766 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:47,640 Speaker 1: will happen to this notorious whistleblowing mastermind? Um, let us know. 767 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook, you can find us 768 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,160 Speaker 1: on Instagram, you can find us on Twitter as a 769 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: show and as individuals. Yes you can. And just one 770 00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,319 Speaker 1: last question I want to pose to you, what do 771 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,080 Speaker 1: you think the next big leak will be about? Because 772 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 1: there will be another big leak. I'm wings all right, 773 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,400 Speaker 1: Well we've got a nomination from this side. Let us 774 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,000 Speaker 1: know what you think. Uh. Like Ben said, you could 775 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:18,640 Speaker 1: find us usually at Conspiracy Stuff, sometimes at Conspiracy Stuff show. 776 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,080 Speaker 1: Check out our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy. 777 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:27,960 Speaker 1: It's fantastic stuff written by fantastic people like you. So 778 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,920 Speaker 1: go check it out. Talk about the shows, let's discuss, 779 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,520 Speaker 1: you know, some of the minutia. Let's talk about future episodes. Uh, 780 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,439 Speaker 1: let's hang out there together on Facebook if you're into 781 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,800 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. If you're not, you can always 782 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,279 Speaker 1: give us a call. Our number is one eight three 783 00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,880 Speaker 1: three st d w y t K. Leave a message 784 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,839 Speaker 1: at the sound of Ben's tone, his sultry tones, and uh, 785 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,400 Speaker 1: it'll go to us. All three of us have access 786 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: to it, though Matt is still kind of the gate keeper. Uh. 787 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,960 Speaker 1: I think Ben is more than key Master. But but 788 00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,080 Speaker 1: Matt as mad as the gate keeper. Wait, does that 789 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,040 Speaker 1: mean we have to copulate God? I forget how it winding, 790 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:14,720 Speaker 1: Ghostbusters whatever, whatever, whatever you need we need Uh. So Uh, 791 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, I do wonder which Ghostbusters we would be. 792 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:22,480 Speaker 1: That's funny. I was I got some spoilers about dan 793 00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,359 Speaker 1: Ackroyd possibly in the future, but we'll we'll catch up 794 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,359 Speaker 1: on that uh down the road. Yes, as as Noel said, uh, 795 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,880 Speaker 1: give us a call. Uh, Matt is our Matt is 796 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,080 Speaker 1: our phone guru. But we do all have access. We 797 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,200 Speaker 1: are all listening in It makes our day to hear 798 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,200 Speaker 1: from you. Just let us know if you're comfortable with 799 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:46,600 Speaker 1: your story, your name, or your specifics of your account 800 00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,160 Speaker 1: being shared on air, because we don't want to compromise you, 801 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:53,000 Speaker 1: or if you're cool with us, you know, intentionally or 802 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,080 Speaker 1: unintentionally calling you back. Yes, yes, if you're cool with 803 00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,799 Speaker 1: us accidentally butt dialing you, uh, full steam ahead. And 804 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,640 Speaker 1: if you hate all of that stuff, uh, for one 805 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,000 Speaker 1: reason or another, we totally get it. And we as 806 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,000 Speaker 1: always have a backup plan. You can email us directly. 807 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:33,080 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they 808 00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,000 Speaker 1: don't want you to know is a production of I 809 00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,239 Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 810 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: the i heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 811 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:42,240 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.