1 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, this is Lee Clasgow when We're Talking Transports. 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host, 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: Lee Clascow, senior freight, transportation and logistics analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence, 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's in house research arm of almost five hundred analysts 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: and strategists around the world. A quick public service announcement 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: before we dive in. Your support is instrumental to keep 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: bringing great guests and conversations to you, our listeners, and 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: we need your support. So please, if you enjoy this podcast, 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: share it, like it and leave a comment. Also, if 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: you get ideas, feedback or just want to talk transports, 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm always happy to connect. You can find me on 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal, on LinkedIn, or on x at Logistics. 13 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: Lee Today, I'm very excited to have with us. Tom Williams, Burlington, 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: Northern Santa Fe is Chief Marketing Officer and EVP A 15 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: Rolie is held since twenty twenty four. Tom joined the 16 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: former Santa Fe Railroad Company in nineteen ninety three and 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: has held various marketing and sales roles in intermodial, automotive, 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: in industrial product businesses. Thanks so much for joining us. 19 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 2: Today, Tom, Well, thanks for having me here on this 20 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: Friday afternoon. 21 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: It is a nice day out where I am. Hope 22 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: it's nice where you are as well. So, Burlington Northern 23 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: also known as BNSF, can you give folks a little 24 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: background about the railroad? 25 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, if I go back, I'm going to take one 26 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: second and give you like a long, long history. But 27 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: if you go all the way back to the beginning, 28 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: there were two lines that were chartered in eighteen forty 29 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,639 Speaker 2: nine that were the earliest predecessor railroads of the Burlington Northern. 30 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: So the Aurora Branch line in Chicago would go on 31 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 2: to become a part of the CB and Q Railway 32 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: in the Pacific Railroad of Missouri that would later become 33 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: part of the Saint Louis and San Francisco or the Frisco. 34 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: Both of those lines were chartered in eighteen forty nine 35 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: and ultimately became part of the BEN And then ten 36 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 2: years later in eighteen fifteen nine, the Santa Fe was chartered, 37 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: and so over you know, the one hundred plus years 38 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: between eighteen forty nine and nineteen ninety five, there were 39 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 2: three hundred and ninety legacy railroads that had merged into 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: form what became the Burlington Northern and Santa Fe Railway 41 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety five, which was a couple of years 42 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,839 Speaker 2: after I had started my career with the Santa Fe 43 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: And then if you fast forward again to twenty ten, 44 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: we were acquired by Berkshire Hathaway in February of twenty ten. 45 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: So can you talk about you know, you mentioned that 46 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: Berkshire Hathaway owns you guys now and you've been with 47 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: the company for a while. I guess you know from 48 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: your experience, has it really changed much, you know, your 49 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: day to day. 50 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I mean, I guess close to half 51 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 2: of my career, not quite half, but a big chunk 52 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: of it, we've been wholly owned subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, 53 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 2: and I would say, you know, at the end of 54 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: the day, return on invested capital is calculated the same 55 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: way if you're you know, part of an enterprise like 56 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: Berkshire Hathway, or if you're publicly traded and so sort 57 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: of how you evaluate, you know, value propositions within the 58 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: business are the same. I do remember we had a 59 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: chief marketing officer at the time of that transaction, John Lanigan, 60 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: who commented on how much of his time prior to 61 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: the acquisition was related to investor events and earnings calls, 62 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: and it was a considerable amount of his time. So 63 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: I know that, you know, there were changes in terms 64 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: of you know, where some folks spent their time within 65 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: the organization. I would just you know, from my view, 66 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: you know, I think this is reflected in the Berkshire 67 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: shareholder letter. It's a company that values long term values, 68 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: ethics and integrity and leadership, doing the right thing the 69 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: right way, and those were all themes that were very 70 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: consistent with our leadership model at BNSF. And as an 71 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: enterprise that makes long, long term investments, it's probably really 72 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 2: good to have an owner that has a long term 73 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: perspective as well. 74 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: Absolutely, So, you know, every railroad in America is different 75 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: and really based on their geography and that really drives, 76 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, their kind of their business mix. Can you 77 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about BNSF's business mix. 78 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: I mean, we're obviously in all of the rail commodities 79 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 2: in some form or fashion. Sure you look at our 80 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 2: mix in particular, we've got about sixty percent of the 81 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: coal business in the West, sixty percent of the grains 82 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 2: business in the West and sixty percent of the intermobile 83 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: just under sixty percent of intermobile business, and then a 84 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: lesser share of you know, some of the other traditional 85 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: industrial commodities around the construction products and chemicals and plastics, 86 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 2: building products and so forth. And so you know, we 87 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,239 Speaker 2: lean very heavy in some of the big bulk stuff 88 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: with the egg products and coal, and then we lean 89 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 2: very heavy a lot of it the legacy of the 90 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: former Santa Fe route between LA and Chicago. That really 91 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 2: drove a lot of our early intermodal success and that's 92 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 2: been a big part of our growth story since the 93 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: Ben and Santa Fe came together in ninety six. 94 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: And you know, just broadly speaking, because you know, obviously 95 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: things are changing by the minute, especially as it relates 96 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: to Middle East and how that will ripple across supply chains. 97 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: Can you talk about, you know, the demand picture. What 98 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: are your customers telling you about demand here in the 99 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: first quarter and looking forward as well. 100 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we're I mean, it's amazing that we're 101 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 2: now late in the first quarter. And I would say 102 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: across you know, industrial and consumer markets pretty muted, but 103 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 2: maybe a little bit less So maybe I would say 104 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 2: a little less pessimistic than where we started the year, 105 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: and we've seen that reflected in some of the macros. 106 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: You know, where we are today versus a few months 107 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 2: ago in terms of the consumer outlook and manufacturing outlook, 108 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: so still muted, but maybe with a lean towards a 109 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: little bit more positivity. And then when I look at 110 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 2: what's driven our volume growth to start this year, pretty 111 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 2: flat and intermodal pretty flat, and industrial, pretty flat in 112 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 2: coal although a little bit up, but then double digit 113 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: growth in agriculture, and so you know, we certainly are 114 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: still moving a lot of last year's crop and and 115 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: we've seen especially on the corn side, but also you 116 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 2: know with wheat and beans to some perspective as well, 117 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 2: we've seen some good growth to start this year. 118 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: And so I guess it is the strong growth that 119 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: you're having an egg, Is that somewhat because it's off 120 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: of an easier comparison from last year, or is there 121 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: something going on or they're just better better yield in 122 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: those in those crops that you mentioned. 123 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good yields and probably a little bit of 124 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: you know, some of the trade dynamics with soybeans coming 125 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 2: in a little bit later, you know, certainly. It's it's 126 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: not just exports out of the West coast, but also 127 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: strong volumes down in New Mexico well, and that's Center Golf. 128 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 2: So it's a combination of things. But it's not just 129 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 2: easy comps from last year. I mean, we're moving historically 130 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: strong agg volumes for the first quarter for a first quarter. 131 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: So you mentioned coal earlier that I think you said 132 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: sixty percent of the market in the West. Are you 133 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: seeing any sort of benefit to the rising natural gas 134 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: prices or is there like a price where you see 135 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: utilities like switching more to coal or using more coal. 136 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I mean, gas prices have been volatiles 137 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: to start the year, but a little bit above three 138 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 2: is better than below three dollars, And if we get 139 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: above four dollars, then that's a little bit better. Were certainly, 140 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: I think the industry and and and demand for electricity. 141 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 2: You've got the you know, the data center element coming on, 142 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 2: and so there's a demand element that's pushing up you know, 143 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 2: the opportunity as well. So this could be the best 144 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: of the last three years of coal volume, you know, 145 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 2: at least in the West, but it would also be 146 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: the third worst of probably allowing going to guess the 147 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: last thirty years. So yeah, have to put that all 148 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: on perspective. You know, we've we've we've crawled up a 149 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: little bit from you know, twenty twenty four, but we're 150 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: well below where the industry was historically. 151 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: So your call franchise is much different than what you 152 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: know your eastern competitors hall. It's us a lot of it, 153 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: if I'm correct, as low sulfur coal. Is there much 154 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: of an exupport market for that? 155 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: There is, there's limited export capacity, but the strong export 156 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: demand and so it's a relatively small percentage of our total, 157 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: but we move about as much of that as we can. 158 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: You know, outside the conversations with we have your shippers 159 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: and you know you really probably have the pulse on 160 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: what's going on with the economy just because you touch 161 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: so many different types of shippers and industries. You know, 162 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: are there kind of leading indicators that you that you 163 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: watch that really help you kind of guide where you 164 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: believe there are going to be an increase in opportunities? 165 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing that is you know I'm going to surprise 166 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 2: you with. But when we look at economic and indicators 167 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 2: and actually TTX, who supports you know, they're a subsidiary 168 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 2: of the industry basically that owns a lot of the 169 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: rolling stock, has an economic outlook, and they have what 170 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: they call a freight focused GDP metric. And so that 171 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 2: freight focused GDP would look specifically on demand for goods 172 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 2: versus services, and it would also take imports and consider 173 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: that positive obviously versus a you know, a negative and 174 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: the traditional GDP calculation. And so that freight focused GDP 175 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: is certainly a benchmark that we would look at. And 176 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 2: then everything else that you would assume that we would 177 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: look at consumer spending on goods, housing starts, industrial production, 178 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: all of those things. But you know, all of those 179 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 2: in some way in some ways kind of underpin that 180 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: freight focused GDP number. And then we look at certainly 181 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: natural gas prices. We talked about that with coal. And 182 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: then from a modal competitive standpoin point, you know, we're 183 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: certainly watching with interest what's happening with truck capacity all 184 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 2: the time. 185 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: You know, looking forward, like where is the growth coming from? 186 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: You know, some of your competitors talk about industrial development 187 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: opportunities as a way of growing. Others talk about you know, 188 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: roade to rail conversions as an opportunity. Where are the 189 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,719 Speaker 1: opportunities at B N s F. 190 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 2: I mean, I think over the long term we would 191 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: continue to say the highway conversions and further rail penetration. 192 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: In terms of those traditional truckload markets, that long term 193 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 2: trend has been kind of interrupted by what I would 194 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: say is, you know, after the supply chain crisis, an 195 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 2: unprecedented cycle, and you've seen this play out on the 196 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 2: truck side, and I don't know when that's fully going 197 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: to end, but we're one day closer today than we 198 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 2: were yesterday, and so I would say there's there's opportunities there. 199 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: There's certainly if manufacturing comes back to the US, making 200 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: sure that we're a vibrant part of those industrial supply chains. 201 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 2: And so we talk a lot about economic development efforts too, 202 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 2: and and there's certainly a lot of competition within the industry. 203 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: When you know, a new steel mill opens, we need 204 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 2: to have those new projects because there's also businesses that 205 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: are you know, matriculating out of the economy and any 206 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 2: to give a time, So we need a lot of 207 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 2: industrial development projects just to stay neutral in that carload space. 208 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 2: And we all obviously want to grow. And then as 209 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: the American farmer. You know, we want them to be 210 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 2: super competitive in global markets. And we've continued to see 211 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 2: you know, yields and production become more and more efficient 212 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 2: over time, and that's how to spillover effect into some 213 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 2: of the you know, energy components that are associated with agriculture. 214 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: So you know, we've seeing ethanol shipments improve over time, 215 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 2: and we're certainly focused on renewable fuels and and and 216 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 2: what's taken place and in those areas. And then you know, 217 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 2: we're we're looking at all of the inputs to data 218 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: centers and how that's going to drive some manufacturing in 219 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: the US, and what are the transportation needs there as well. 220 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: Can you share any examples of some industrial development that 221 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: you've kind of either brought online or bringing online that 222 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: you could share. 223 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I've attended three ribbon cutting 224 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 2: ceremonies and maybe the last seven months of new grand 225 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: openings that are on the BNSF network. One of them 226 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 2: was a rebar facility in northwest Arkansas, which is quickly 227 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 2: becoming one of the largest steel producing areas in the country. 228 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 2: So there's you know, up around Blytheal Arkansas there's a 229 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 2: huge burgeoning steel manufacturing base. We opened up a new 230 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 2: intermodial facility in Salt Lake City, So we were out 231 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: there with the Governor of Utah and it was a 232 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: great day and offering more competition for them from an 233 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: intermotile perspective and a new node on our map in 234 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 2: that intermobile network. And then similarly, we opened up a 235 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 2: new facility in Oklahoma City that's really kind of an 236 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 2: extension of our network from the Dallasport work area up 237 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 2: into a small facility in Oklahoma City for intermodal as well. 238 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: So let's let's talk about intermodal a little bit if 239 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: if you don't mind, you know, so it obviously intermodial 240 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: becomes more competitive the tighter the trucking market is and 241 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: the higher fuel costs are. Is there a price of 242 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: diesel that like you guys see, you know, an increase 243 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: in interest in intermodal from from folks. 244 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I mean, it's probably a number of factors, 245 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 2: not just a specific diesel price. I wish I could 246 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: pinpoint it. And I'm thinking, did you ever see the 247 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 2: television show land Man a little bit? Yes, I mean 248 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 2: it's about the oil and gas business, but they kind 249 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 2: of you know, Billy Bob Thorne's character talks a little 250 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: bit about you know, two lows not great, two highs 251 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 2: not great either. And I think about the thing, you know, 252 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 2: the thing for us, we certainly want the economy to 253 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 2: be very robust and and and so we don't want, 254 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 2: you know, fuel prices or diesel prices to kind of 255 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: impact economic activity. But by the same token, a little 256 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 2: bit higher makes rail relatively better, just based on being 257 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: more fuel efficient motor transportation. So I don't know what 258 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 2: the exact sweet spot is, but you know, a little 259 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: bit higher is not bad, right. 260 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: And one of those other things that people take into 261 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: consideration is service. Can you talk about, you know, the network, 262 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: how it's been running, especially as relates to intermodal. 263 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and actually, I think the whole industry has been 264 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: operating better and all, you know, all of the trains 265 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 2: consume the capacity on the North American network, and so 266 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: it's hard to have one part of the rail network 267 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 2: performing well when others are performing poorly. And I think 268 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: as an industry, and because we're so interconnected, you know, 269 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: having everybody doing pretty well all at the same time 270 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: is important. So I would start from the perspective that 271 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: you know, when we think about carvelosity and dwell times 272 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: and intermodial on time performance, they all kind of go together. 273 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: We feel really good about our intermodal performance, as we 274 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: do with others today other segment and intermodial. It really 275 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: I think that the priority is on consistency and reliability. 276 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: So it's it's not just the speed of transit that 277 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: it's just making sure that you know, we're delivering the 278 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: same you know, transit every day and every lane. And 279 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: so when we talk to the beneficial cargo owners, they 280 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 2: really just they want that consistency in their schedule book. 281 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: And on intermodal Is all your business with the JB 282 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: Hunt or do you work with other imcs as well? 283 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: So we do work with other imcs. 284 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 2: I would say the hugest part of our truckload standard 285 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: right intermodal is with JB. Hunt. We have domestic intermodial 286 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 2: business that you know, we do with parcel and LTL carriers, 287 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: refrigerated carriers, other small truckload companies that would be in 288 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: that kind of premium inter motial side. And then about 289 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: forty a little bit more than forty percent of our 290 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: intermotive volume is with international ocean carriers that are moving 291 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: their containers in land IPI service. But we I mean, 292 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: the JBHUNT relationship is unique in terms of what I 293 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: would call deep channel alignment in that IMC space and 294 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 2: compare where the other railroads are. 295 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: Absolutely, you know, do you think there's any like when 296 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: you're trying to go out there and selling intermodal What 297 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: are the biggest misconceptions that shippers might have about it? 298 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if it's misconceptions, but I think 299 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 2: the where the reliability has improved, you know, relative to 300 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: you know, certainly there was disruptions in twenty twenty one, 301 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: but you know, right now we're probably at a ten 302 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 2: to twelve to five fourteen year best in terms of 303 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 2: intermodal service consistency and reliability. And as shippers had adopted 304 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 2: and you know, had yet to come back, they maybe 305 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 2: you know, they may misperceive how far along the service 306 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: qualities come. 307 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: What drove that large improvement in service over the last 308 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: tens of idd years. 309 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a combination of you know, investments 310 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 2: that you know, the industries made in service capacity and technology. 311 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: I do think that it's also a component of that, 312 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 2: and certainly a component of the challenges was you know, 313 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 2: we're part of a deeper integrated supply chain, and so 314 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: you know, when the supply chain crisis hit twenty twenty one, 315 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: there were impacts beyond rail that impacted rail certainly, you 316 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 2: know that there was there there were capacity constraints in 317 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: terms of how quickly units were evacuating the rail networks 318 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: into warehouses and onto the street. That kind of created 319 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 2: bottlenecks that don't exist today. 320 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: So in today's. 321 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 2: Environment, we're handling you know, more cargo with faster service, 322 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 2: less reliability. We're seeing less dwell time of units sitting 323 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: at our intermotal hubs waiting to be picked up. The 324 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 2: ports are seeing less dull time waiting for you know, 325 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 2: trains to pull those units than they were just a 326 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 2: few years ago. And so it's it's it's not just 327 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: a component of how much better the rails are operating, 328 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 2: but also how better the entire the entirety of the 329 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: transportation networks are operating. 330 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, as a senior executive at BNSF, you know, how 331 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: closely do you work with the operational folks when you're 332 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: trying to sell service. 333 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 2: Within BNSF. Yeah, extremely closely. Yeah, I mean we talk 334 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 2: every day and I do think, you know, it's it's 335 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 2: a I'm lucky to work for BNSF in terms of 336 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: the strong alignment we have across the enterprise when it 337 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 2: comes to making business decisions. 338 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: And you know, from from so you know, you mentioned 339 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: some of the investments that the company has made over 340 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 1: the years to improve services. You just, you know, in 341 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: your opinion, what really provided the most bang for the 342 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: buck in terms of all of a sudden, the service 343 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: got so much better because the company made you know, 344 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: an investment in X Y. 345 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, it's not just one thing, but we did 346 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 2: put very purposeful focus a couple of years back on 347 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 2: improving the quality of our single car merchandise network. And 348 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 2: I talked about how everything service wise, you know, within 349 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 2: the company and within the industry is inter related. And 350 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 2: these are broad numbers, so don't take this as an absolute, 351 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: but that single car network, even though it's only about 352 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 2: you know, twenty five thirty percent of the volume, arguably 353 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: can zoomed about fifty percent of the resources. When you 354 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 2: look at, you know, the crews and the locomotives that 355 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 2: would be deployed in terms of the switching operations and 356 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: the gathering and distribution in that CARLOI network and so 357 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 2: as we readd dwell time and inefficiency out of that 358 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: part of the network, it freed up a lot of resources. 359 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 2: And so what we saw was an immediate kind of 360 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 2: like our single car merchandise velocity and dwell times improved. 361 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 2: And then at the same time we saw pretty immediate 362 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: benefits in our bulk you know, ag and coal networks 363 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 2: and our intermotal on time performance. And you know again 364 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 2: that rising tide lifted all boats from a service perspective. 365 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: Gotcha, And so you know, obviously this the last year 366 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: plus has been a pretty crazy year with tarris and 367 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 1: some of the more protectionist policies coming out of the 368 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: Trump administration. So I'm just curious, like broadly speaking, like 369 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: how many, like what percentage of your book of business 370 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: is related to imports or exports? Uh and and if 371 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: you can provide any color around. 372 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 2: That, Yeah, without giving a specific number, I would say 373 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 2: I think BNSF has a higher percentage of our rail 374 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 2: volume that are tied to global supply chains, just based 375 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: on you know, what I shared is sixty percent share 376 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 2: of the grains business, sixty percent share of intermodal, and 377 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 2: those two businesses being highly tied to you know, global 378 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 2: markets as opposed to just domestic and so you know, 379 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: you know that global trade dynamic is as important to 380 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 2: us as it is anybody in our industry. 381 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: And when you interchange with the road, especially in the East, 382 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: is there is there one you you guys interchange more 383 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: with CSX or Norfolk Southern. 384 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 2: It's we have large operations with both. Norfolk Southern is 385 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 2: a little bit bigger than CSX today, but yeah, we 386 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 2: do robust interline operations with both Norfolk Southern, CSX, cn 387 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: Fero Mexican and Mexico. So yeah, it's very interconnected North 388 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 2: American network, gotcha. 389 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: And you know, going back to the you know, the tariffs, 390 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: you could you just talk about did you did you 391 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: feel any of the implication because you know, you did 392 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: mention that you know, you feel that you have an 393 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: outsize exposure to to global supply chain, So did you 394 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: feel it in your in your volume numbers in twenty 395 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: twenty five. 396 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: And this year in twenty twenty five, we certainly saw 397 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 2: the volatility and so you know, on the import side, 398 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 2: you know, there was certainly a lot of activity as 399 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: those global supply chains managed around you know, the the 400 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 2: you know what was announced, what you know they were 401 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 2: projecting might be announced, and so that you know, created 402 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 2: a lot of you know, uneven trade flows for twenty 403 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 2: twenty five. It'll create some interesting comparisons already is as 404 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 2: we're going through the first quarter of this year, and 405 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 2: we'll see that again in the second quarter, just in 406 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 2: terms of comparing back against those volatle ups and downs 407 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 2: we saw last year. 408 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: Gotcha and some more policy stuff. I don't know if 409 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,719 Speaker 1: you've heard Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern are trying to merge, 410 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: you know, I was just curious, you know, what are 411 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: your thoughts on that, what's the company's thoughts on further 412 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: consolidation of the Class one network. 413 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, we we have heard. So we're very aware and 414 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 2: we have you know, we've got our own website and 415 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 2: it's no secret in terms of our position, you know, 416 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 2: relative to that transaction. But I would also recognize that 417 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: we understand that anti trust laws and the merger rules 418 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 2: are there to protect competition, not competitors. So we have 419 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 2: a lot of discussions with our customers one, you know, 420 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 2: just and I think our customers broadly do understand that 421 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 2: the rail merger rules that were rewritten in two thousand 422 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 2: and one create a higher bar for rail consolidation than 423 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 2: pretty much any other industry. So a rail merger has 424 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: to prove out that it's enhancing competition. And you know, 425 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 2: when I know there's it's been positioned as, hey, this 426 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 2: would fulfill Lincoln's vision of the transcontinental railroad. But customers 427 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 2: understand that today there are effectively four very vibrant transcontinental railroads. 428 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 2: You asked about the interline volumes we do with both 429 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 2: Norfolk Southern and CSX, Well, those you know interline volumes 430 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 2: creates kind of two distinct transcontinental rail lines, and Union 431 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: pacifics intererline volume with Norfolk Southern and CSX do. Likewise, 432 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 2: today there's kind of four trans continental railroads, and if 433 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: this merger were to go through, it would it would 434 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 2: take two of those out on day one, And so 435 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 2: we've kind of put out what are the implications of 436 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 2: that in terms of the number of lanes that would impact, 437 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 2: And obviously you just get to a really quick place 438 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: that it's hard to meet that high bar of enhanced 439 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 2: competition when you're eliminating two of the four trans continental 440 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 2: railroads that effectively exist today. 441 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: So obviously that you guys have your website site and 442 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: your PR machine, you know, working you know over time 443 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: about this if you is is there anything that you 444 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: know your customers have been telling you about it that 445 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: you could share their thoughts? 446 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I mean, I think the discussions revolve 447 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 2: around you know, market power and just the sheer scale 448 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 2: of that merged enterprise, concern about the history of how 449 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 2: elegant the consolidations have taken place in terms of the 450 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 2: of the merger integrations and and what disruptions those might 451 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 2: have on supply chains. I think in a much smaller view, 452 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,959 Speaker 2: the CPKC merger was not super clean, and then you 453 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: take this at you know, five, six, seven times the 454 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: scale of that transaction, and so that could have implications 455 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 2: on supply chains, and then you know, I think there's 456 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: a lot of discussion around challenging how the over the 457 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 2: road conversion synergy is going to play out, because the 458 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 2: industrial customers understand that if the volume growth doesn't play out, 459 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 2: and history would suggest that, you know, rail mergers haven't 460 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: driven a lot of over the road conversions when they occur, 461 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 2: that you know, where will the synergy come from to 462 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 2: pay the shareholders for the premium that union pacifics offering 463 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 2: in this transaction. And so when you line all that up, 464 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 2: you know, we're kind of seeing the scales of stakeholder 465 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 2: interests start to weigh. Now from a customer perspective, you know, 466 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 2: the rail customer coalition of you know, trade associations and 467 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 2: individual customers you know, represent more than half of the 468 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 2: rail volume in the industry, have come out with concern. 469 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 2: We saw the Farm Bureau write a white paper this 470 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: week with concerns. You know, that compares to support letters 471 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 2: that were roughly five or six percent of rail volume 472 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 2: associated with those letters of support, at least in the 473 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 2: first application. You look at the congressmen and women, over 474 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 2: seventy two letters of concern, there's been seven letters of support, 475 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 2: five of whom were in the state of Nebraska, so 476 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 2: maybe seventy two versus two outside of the state Nebraska. 477 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 2: And then you look at labor, the Teamsters and the 478 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 2: Brotherhood of Railway Signalmen, you know represent more than half 479 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 2: of railway workers have expressed their concern as well. So 480 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 2: I mean stakeholder interest is starting, you know, to balance 481 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: at least with you know, we need to see more, 482 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 2: we need to have some of these questions answered. 483 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: And so following the announcement, you know, a lot of 484 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: different railroads of announced do services. You guys announced one 485 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: with CSX, I believe in intermodial service. Can you talk about, 486 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: you know, some of the new intermodial services that you 487 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: guys started to offering and kind of some of the 488 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 1: benefits that provide the shippers. Yeah, I mean, we've had 489 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 1: a long going back to two thousand and six. I 490 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: think interline it's a haulage service is kind of rail jargon, 491 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: but it gives us the right to market intermodal from 492 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: southern California to Atlanta using CSX as that last segment, 493 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,239 Speaker 1: and we had been working with them on extending that 494 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: into the deeper southeast Charlotte and Jacksonville, and so we 495 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: announced that. It's kind of a building on that foundation 496 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: that we already had with CSX. We'd actually announced early 497 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: last year in alignment with Norfolk Southern to take transit 498 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: time out of imported cargo coming through the ports of 499 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: Tacoma and Seattle going into the northeast. It's kind of 500 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: a land bridge on NS. So you know, there are 501 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of activity around different railroads aligning on 502 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: different solutions, and I think it does. 503 00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 2: I mean, one of the merger points that this the 504 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 2: STB will evaluate is, you know, can some of the 505 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 2: synergies be obtained through alliances? You know, does it require 506 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 2: a merger? And I know the merger applicants feel strongly 507 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,239 Speaker 2: that you can do you know, they can do more 508 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 2: in a merged environment. But I think what's proving out 509 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 2: in the industry is that you know, there are a 510 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 2: lot of effective alliance like intermodal services that are out there. 511 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: And so, you know, given following the announced merger between 512 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: UP and n S, there's been more talk about reciprocal switching. 513 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: Brillington Northern have a position on you know, their thoughts 514 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: on reciprocal switching for at least the US railroads because 515 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: they do something similar up in Canada. 516 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. I'll be honest, I'm not a regulatory attorney or 517 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 2: operator in a way that I'm I'm not super intimate 518 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 2: with exactly how the Canadian process works. I know that, 519 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 2: you know, the board put out a notice of proposed 520 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 2: rulemaking on switching here a few weeks ago. We filed 521 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 2: our comments. Uh, in my lay person view, you know 522 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 2: that npr M really opens the door to the courthouse 523 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 2: for rail customers to uh have a discussion with the 524 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 2: board in a better way. And it's kind of hard 525 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 2: to argue that are hard to argue against the doors 526 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 2: to the courthouse being you know, fully open for customers. 527 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 2: And I saw Patrick Fuchs and and the other members 528 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 2: of the STB speak in Chicago this week at a 529 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: railway age event, and he noted, you know that you know, 530 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 2: virtually no cases filed and no customer wins over a 531 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 2: long history. So it seems kind of asymmetric in terms 532 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 2: of how the switching rights have been you know, arbitrated 533 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 2: at the board level. And so you know, this npr 534 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 2: M at least opens that up a little bit. I think, 535 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 2: you know, if you come back to the merger and 536 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 2: and and reciprocal switching in and of itself, you know, 537 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 2: the burden is on the applicants to enhance it's competition, 538 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 2: it's not you know, the burden's not on the entire 539 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 2: industry to do that, right because you know, two companies 540 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 2: decide they're trying to merge, So it's kind of interesting 541 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 2: to put those two things in contact with each other. 542 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 2: There's a unique burden on the applicants to talk about 543 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 2: what they're going to do specifically with their you know, 544 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 2: transaction to enhanced competitions. 545 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: So during your long career over there at Burlington Northern 546 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: in Santa Fe, obviously technology is becoming more and more 547 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: important within the rails. Can you talk about technology, whether 548 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: it's just in the sales and marketing organization or you know, 549 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: how you're using it just to be more productive or 550 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,239 Speaker 1: you can you know, obviously i'd love to hear you 551 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: know how it relates to the operations. 552 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. We announced a little bit more than 553 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 2: a year ago now the launch of a new organization 554 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 2: ben s F Tech that would would kind of replace 555 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 2: our historic technicology services efforts. And we had outsourced a 556 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 2: lot of our software development historically and you know, established 557 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 2: a new vision to build a lot of what we 558 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 2: do in house and how we leverage AI. And so 559 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 2: we've kind of rebuilt that organization with technology leaders and 560 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 2: hiring software developers you know that work directly for BNSF 561 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 2: as opposed to project managers who are outsourcing a lot 562 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 2: of that work. And and I say there's there's three 563 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 2: key threads of you know, what are the adjectives of 564 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 2: that organization. One is to help us run a more 565 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 2: efficient and consistent on time network. One is uh to 566 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 2: reduce friction within our customer interface, and then one is 567 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 2: how to be become more productive with our employees. So 568 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 2: just take those as kind of the platforms of what 569 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 2: we're doing. I'll talk about a couple of tech items. 570 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 2: I guess hardware that's within the network, say, is kind 571 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 2: of the first thing that we look at, and you know, 572 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 2: there's a millions of records of data on a you know, 573 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 2: daily and less than daily basis as it relates to 574 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 2: the readers across the network. How we inspect track if 575 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 2: you go all the way back in terms of you know, 576 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 2: going from visual to optical inspection of track. But then 577 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 2: in our engineering group really likes Norse mythology because you know, 578 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 2: the first and you know inspection car where the technology 579 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 2: was thor And now we've got ODIN, which is the 580 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 2: online defect identification system that goes on locomotives and it 581 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 2: can do track inspection on locomotives. And so when we 582 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 2: get these devices on in service locomotives, it massively exponentially 583 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 2: accelerates the how many millions of miles of track we 584 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 2: can inspect and not have another car out on the 585 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 2: network that's interfering with the track. So not only improves safety, 586 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 2: but it also improves the efficiency of the network. So 587 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: that's you know, an example. Certainly we're doing a lot 588 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 2: within even like within the marketing organization and our customer 589 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 2: support team. Uh, just in terms of how we assimilate 590 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 2: information to solve unique problems with customers from billing too, 591 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 2: you know, car location exceptions, bat order set outs, and 592 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,280 Speaker 2: how efficiently we get those back in the network, and 593 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 2: and and and also how quickly we're able to train 594 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 2: new employees in that customer service center. So you know, 595 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 2: we're seeing quick wins across the network every day as 596 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 2: we're you know, you know this this organizations fully up 597 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 2: to speed and and uh, you know, delivering on their initiatives. 598 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: So you know you mentioned you I, I guess I 599 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: mentioned on the onset that you started a career at 600 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: Santa Fe. How did you gravitate towards the transportation industry? 601 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: How did you first say you know or get into 602 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: the transportation industry. 603 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 2: I don't want to say it was, you know fully 604 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 2: by accident, but I was a finance major at Indiana 605 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 2: University in Bloomington, and you know I'd interviewed, I'd interviewed with. 606 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: Something and just by the way, I don't mean to 607 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: cut you off, but you are aware of your national 608 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: champion quoter ZIP the Indiana there, so so congratulations on 609 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: that win. 610 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 2: I appreciate that It's March thirteenth, and I was having 611 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 2: a conversation with some friends not too long ago about 612 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 2: when will it be too late in the year to 613 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 2: keep talking about, you know how awesome that was in 614 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 2: January and we're not there yet now. 615 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: Absolutely not. 616 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 2: If you would have asked me even two years ago, 617 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 2: if you know, there'd be a time when we had 618 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 2: an undefeated national championship football team and at the same 619 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 2: time we had just lost seven basketball games in a 620 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 2: road to Northwestern, would that ever happen? I didn't think. 621 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 2: I wouldn't think either one of those things have happened, 622 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 2: and they're both true right now. 623 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: So well, I'm sorry, I go back to this story 624 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: as an undergraduate and finance. Sorry about that or derailed me. 625 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 2: So you know, the kind of uninteresting answer is Santa Fe. 626 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 2: You know they were recruiting, interviewing on campus and and really, 627 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 2: you know, if you came out of the regulation. My 628 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 2: understanding was that there was virtually no you know, college 629 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 2: new hire hiring for about eight years, and so the 630 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 2: late eighties into the early nineties, they'd really just started 631 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 2: to ramp up a college recruiting program. And I probably 632 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 2: didn't know still at that time how challenged the economics 633 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 2: of you know, the rail business was. I wasn't I 634 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 2: didn't you know, have a particular interest in pursuing a 635 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 2: career in transportation. But the people were interesting, the business 636 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 2: problems were interesting, and it really, as it turns out, 637 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 2: was a really interesting time to start a career in 638 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 2: the in the rail space. 639 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: And I would say now the margins are a tad 640 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 1: better within the rail industry a broadly speaking. And I guess, 641 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: you know, I always like to ask our guests this 642 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: towards the end, you know, if there's a they have 643 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: a favorite book about transportation or leadership that's kind of 644 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: close to their heart that they've they've read over the years. 645 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 2: I just pulled like a whole bunch of books off 646 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 2: of my shelf when you know, I was thinking about this, 647 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 2: So I'm going to give you a couple. Okay, there's 648 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 2: just since I was an intermodial guy for so long. 649 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 2: There's a book called The Box by Mark Levinson, how 650 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 2: how the shipping container made the world smaller, in the 651 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,359 Speaker 2: world economy bigger. You know, you might be familiar with it, 652 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,760 Speaker 2: but you know, if you're an intermodial person in the world, 653 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 2: that's a good book to read. I talked about the 654 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 2: kind of how we're integrated into these global markets. So 655 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 2: there's a book called The World for Sale by Javier Blass. 656 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,760 Speaker 2: The Prize by Daniel Jurgen's an older book on the energy, 657 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 2: you know, kind of the global energy markets. There's a 658 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,720 Speaker 2: leadership book. You're probably familiar with the name Bill George. 659 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 2: He was a CEO I think it was Metronic and nineties, 660 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 2: and I tended a postgraduate seminar where he talked about leadership. 661 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 2: And he wrote a book, True North that just resonated 662 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 2: with me because it's about authentic leadership, and I thought 663 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 2: it was very consistent with what I felt our leadership 664 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 2: model of BENI Seth was over time, so that that resonated. 665 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 2: And then the last one you know that you probably 666 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 2: haven't read. It's called Harriman Versus Hill wall Street's Great 667 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 2: Railroad War, and it's about how Eh Harriman and James J. 668 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,280 Speaker 2: Hill were battling over the Northern Pacific one hundred plus 669 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 2: years ago, and it gives you a really good perspective 670 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 2: of like how long the you know, Ben and the 671 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 2: Up have been rivals in the Western So yeah, it's 672 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:49,240 Speaker 2: a long history. 673 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: And you know, as a as a senior executive at 674 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: b N kind of kind of what is your favorite 675 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:56,879 Speaker 1: thing about the job? 676 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, look I'm super lucky. I mean, one was 677 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,759 Speaker 2: my favorite thing, and I talked about, you know, the 678 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 2: culture that we've had, and it really was defined after 679 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 2: the merger of the Burlington Northern and Santa Fe And 680 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 2: you know, Rob Crebs as a CEO at the time, 681 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 2: and they had two companies, same industry, different cultures, and 682 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 2: he brought that culture together to form the culture of 683 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 2: a new company in a very purposeful way. So I've 684 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 2: been lucky to work with a lot of really good people, 685 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 2: good leaders over time. The other thing, just as a 686 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 2: commercial lead, is we get to learn about i mean, 687 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 2: you think about the industrial economy and the consumer economy 688 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,800 Speaker 2: in the US and what drives their businesses, how we 689 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 2: can provide effective solutions. It's super interesting and you know, 690 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have had that perspective as a finance major 691 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 2: coming out of Indiana. But it's it's like, you know, 692 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 2: very you know, fulfilling every day, academically challenging, it's it's 693 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 2: it's fascinating. 694 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: All right, great, Well, Tom, I really want to thank 695 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: you for your time and insights today. This is a 696 00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: great conversation. 697 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, and thank you again for having me 698 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 2: and go Hoo's yours. 699 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: Okay, and I also want to thank you for tuning in. 700 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: If you liked the episode, please subscribe and leave a review. 701 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 1: We've lined up a number of great guests for the podcast, 702 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: so please check back to hear conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators, 703 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: and decision makers within the freight markets. Also, if you 704 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: want to learn more about the freight transportation markets, check 705 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: out our work on the Bloomberg Terminal at Bigo and 706 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 1: on social media. I'd like to thank Mariam Orr and 707 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,879 Speaker 1: Aditia Somni from our editing team for their help pulling 708 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: this podcast together. This is the classical signing off and 709 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: thanks for talking transports with me. Talk to you next week.