Speaker 1: Be Around the NFL Podcast? Is this really the off season?
Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL Podcast.
Speaker 1: My name is Dan Hansas. Come to from a room
Speaker 1: filled with some heroes, Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal. You know
Speaker 1: this is not like any other off season. Really, there
Speaker 1: is no off season, as market has reminded us constantly
Speaker 1: over the last seven years of the show, at least
Speaker 1: not for us. Um, we're always busy and we got
Speaker 1: the draft coming up now, free agency, and the in
Speaker 1: the rear view now and then the training camps and
Speaker 1: then the season and you know it, it just goes
Speaker 1: on and on and on. But also this has been
Speaker 1: very different than every other off season obviously. UM, Chris
Speaker 1: Westling our great friend and colleague on the show, and
Speaker 1: passed away of course in February. And you know we've
Speaker 1: talked about it a lot, boys, you know, just hunt,
Speaker 1: you know, remembering Wes and mourning his loss and and
Speaker 1: moving forward or at least attempting to. And UM, I
Speaker 1: want to bring in somebody here as we start today's show.
Speaker 1: Zach Kiefer of The Athletic, who did a great job, um,
Speaker 1: remembering west in a piece in The Athletic. Really great stuff.
Speaker 1: So UM to start today's show, before we get to
Speaker 1: all the football stuff I want to talk about that.
Speaker 1: Welcome Zach to the Around the NFL podcast. Thank you, Dan.
Speaker 1: It is an honor to be on with you guys,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite NFL podcasts. So I wish it
Speaker 1: was under different circumstances, but I have UM learned a
Speaker 1: lot about the late great Chris Wesley, and over the
Speaker 1: last couple of months you certainly have. I mean that
Speaker 1: is uh, you really did a great job in it,
Speaker 1: and it and it required a sensitive touch and you
Speaker 1: were always wary of that. And when you connected with
Speaker 1: all of us and you spoke with all of us
Speaker 1: Ricky Westling brothers, UM really appreciated you under standing kind
Speaker 1: of the sensitivity of the topic. And I think he
Speaker 1: really as I texted you this morning, you kind of
Speaker 1: nailed the essence of the man. Um, what did you
Speaker 1: learn about Wes? I mean, can I be honest, it
Speaker 1: was hard to nail the essence of this man because
Speaker 1: he was he was a character. I think, Mark, I
Speaker 1: think at some point you like you were like you know,
Speaker 1: west always loved to collect characters in his life. He
Speaker 1: was the greatest character of all and I think you
Speaker 1: guys all kind of told me that in your own
Speaker 1: different way, because you each kind of had a different
Speaker 1: relationship with him. Um, but what you know stood out
Speaker 1: to me was this was a guy for a long time.
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people know him as the
Speaker 1: around the NFL guy, the football nerd, all that before that,
Speaker 1: he was this guy that was really looking for something right.
Speaker 1: He really was kind of this wandering soul and he
Speaker 1: was looking for meaning in his life and in his job.
Speaker 1: And it all kind of came together when Greg stumbled
Speaker 1: upon this fifty thousand words you know, football story he
Speaker 1: wrote for his old website, and everything really changed. And um,
Speaker 1: you know, like I wrote in the story, he had
Speaker 1: to call But what a character. I mean, I I
Speaker 1: couldn't get people off the phone. They wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about this guy so much. And it was um And
Speaker 1: at the same time, like when you're writing about this guy,
Speaker 1: if there's a high bar to clear, right, like you
Speaker 1: gotta get this guy right. And he was such a fun,
Speaker 1: unique individual. Um. I could almost hear West in the
Speaker 1: back of my mind saying, you better get this right, man.
Speaker 1: Better not you better do me justice. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean? It feels like that would be something he
Speaker 1: would say, you share. That wasn't Nick Wesleyan's voice. His
Speaker 1: brother Nick Um. Nick was great. But at the NFR
Speaker 1: conversation we talked for like forty minutes. He was like, now,
Speaker 1: just so you know, you better not screw this up.
Speaker 1: You better get my brother right. And I was like
Speaker 1: in the back of my head and like, I better
Speaker 1: because he's got West has got like what six brothers,
Speaker 1: Like they'd all be hunting me down if I did
Speaker 1: his brother right. So the pressure was immense. I would
Speaker 1: just say that, Um, you know West looking down on this,
Speaker 1: I think he would have immense UM respect with for
Speaker 1: how you carried out this project. UM. You know, I
Speaker 1: remember talking with you. We all had these long initial conversations, UM.
Speaker 1: And your level of UM. I think emotional awareness and
Speaker 1: sensitivity mattered a lot UM and you you're more than
Speaker 1: just a reporter. And it's like you never really know
Speaker 1: how some of these projects when you're a writer come
Speaker 1: to you in life. UM. And what I have thought
Speaker 1: Zach Kiefer would be the guy to write this, like
Speaker 1: you know, when when everything happened, I don't know I
Speaker 1: would have known that. But like in the end, it
Speaker 1: came to you and you did such a respectful, powerful
Speaker 1: job with it that, um, I really think West would
Speaker 1: would smile down on what you've done. So thank you.
Speaker 1: Thanks Mark. That that really like means the world to me.
Speaker 1: And as I talked to you guys, I mean, I've
Speaker 1: been through something similar, and you know, as you guys
Speaker 1: go through like stages of grief like those are real, man,
Speaker 1: and that whole like it hit me like a ton
Speaker 1: of bricks. When you talked about having to leave the
Speaker 1: podcast for a couple of minutes and Dan, you were like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll think about him on Sunday nights when
Speaker 1: I want to text them, and it's like anyone who's
Speaker 1: ever lost someone, they've been through those moments. Um. And
Speaker 1: I became invested in this story because one West was awesome.
Speaker 1: He was I mean, the story has made me laugh.
Speaker 1: And then in the moment that almost I had to
Speaker 1: get emotional too. And I didn't know West very well.
Speaker 1: We might have said hi in passing, but I feel
Speaker 1: like I know him now and it was through you guys,
Speaker 1: and it was through Erica in an hour long talks
Speaker 1: with Colleen and the the text message she would show
Speaker 1: me that West used to send her. I mean, like
Speaker 1: there was gonna be a party one night and and
Speaker 1: Collen couldn't make it back in town, and West told her, no,
Speaker 1: we're gonna hold off. We're not gonna do it unless
Speaker 1: the whole group can be together. What a fun friend
Speaker 1: to have and and and it came through to that.
Speaker 1: It came through to me, like all of us want
Speaker 1: to have friends like this in our lives. And you
Speaker 1: guys had that guy, and and it sounds like you
Speaker 1: guys really really became really tight. Yeah, that's really well,
Speaker 1: said Zack, because, um, you know, I think when when
Speaker 1: you lose someone, you know, you think of the family,
Speaker 1: and that is that is who we think of first,
Speaker 1: is like Kesha and his family. Um, but when you
Speaker 1: talk about him as a friend, he meant so much
Speaker 1: to so many people as friends, and like in our
Speaker 1: world and in everyone's world, like those are such meaningful
Speaker 1: relationships they were to him, Like I think that would
Speaker 1: have been one of the highest compliments you could give him,
Speaker 1: was that he was a great friend and he and
Speaker 1: he was to to us all differently, but to so
Speaker 1: many other people. And so I think that's well said.
Speaker 1: That it's like really hard to pin pinpoint the essence
Speaker 1: of West, because there was a lot to him. You know,
Speaker 1: he could be he could be stubborn, he could be funny,
Speaker 1: he could be you know, as kind as can be.
Speaker 1: But I think hitting on what he meant as a
Speaker 1: friend to so many people, um us us and Colleen
Speaker 1: and everything of course in the article is really meaningful
Speaker 1: and and it's it's nice because we you know, in
Speaker 1: this COVID time, so much has been lost. But I
Speaker 1: think the the ability to honor and celebrate and mourn
Speaker 1: um has really been mess you know, so messed up
Speaker 1: for so many people around around the world and now
Speaker 1: and we've been affected by that. And so we're gonna
Speaker 1: have a chance to celebrate West altogether. Um. But I
Speaker 1: think stuff something like this where we're getting to celebrate
Speaker 1: him in print and sort of you know, in memorium,
Speaker 1: Like I think that's important. Like there's a reason people
Speaker 1: have been mourning and getting together and celebrating and honoring
Speaker 1: people for as long as there have been people. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean, it's because it helps, it's because
Speaker 1: it's meaningful and so and so that really helps us.
Speaker 1: Thanks and you know, you reading the story and that
Speaker 1: was really well said Greg. Like reading the story is
Speaker 1: that I'm real reading um with Zach Road. And again
Speaker 1: it's in the athletic um. Uh, please check it out
Speaker 1: about Chris. It's it's like I don't know it. I
Speaker 1: keep on waiting for the story to change as I'm
Speaker 1: reading it, that there's gonna be a better ending. And
Speaker 1: then your story ends in kind of an abrupt way
Speaker 1: to me. Uh, not because of the writing, but just
Speaker 1: because there is no kind of happy ending to it.
Speaker 1: And that's still something that that messes with you. And
Speaker 1: like we were planning a trip to Tybee Island at
Speaker 1: some point this year as a group to celebrate West
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it's just like the fact that
Speaker 1: he won't be there with us. Uh. We what what
Speaker 1: we're gonna do is celebrate him. And we know that's
Speaker 1: something that would make him happy, and it's a great
Speaker 1: way to pay respect to him, but it is it
Speaker 1: is a process for us. And and I think Zach
Speaker 1: gets what your story did a nice job hitting on that.
Speaker 1: We're trying to figure it out. And the listeners are amazing.
Speaker 1: They've been so supportive of us and even look at
Speaker 1: the comments of your story, as Zach immediately a huge
Speaker 1: outpouring in the common section, people sharing West memories what
Speaker 1: he meant to them, and that, to me is another
Speaker 1: tribute to the men. The one thing that jumped out
Speaker 1: a lot was how real he was, Like he wasn't
Speaker 1: a saint, right and and and you guys know, in
Speaker 1: this business there's a lot of egos and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of that there's fake. This guy was not that.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's that little story that a couple of
Speaker 1: people told me about the NFL Network coach kind of
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, we're just the things we can work on,
Speaker 1: and West is like, I will not be taking your advice.
Speaker 1: Like he didn't he didn't play the game. He he
Speaker 1: he loved football for what it was. And I wrote
Speaker 1: in there like he wasn't in it for the clicks,
Speaker 1: and that's something that I admire. Like he didn't he
Speaker 1: was doing fifty words stories on NFL stuff and he
Speaker 1: wasn't getting paid a dime for it. Like he loved
Speaker 1: the work for the right reasons and he didn't play
Speaker 1: the ego game and he didn't fall into that stuff.
Speaker 1: And a lot of people, I feel like in this
Speaker 1: industry kind of do. And then to your point, Dan,
Speaker 1: I cannot begin to tell you the amount of outpouring
Speaker 1: of feedback I've gotten already in five six hours. Like
Speaker 1: I've been able to open my phone, and that's not
Speaker 1: because of this story I did. That's because of West right.
Speaker 1: Like I'm getting messages from people in Australia and England
Speaker 1: and Finland, and you know what, the one thing I
Speaker 1: hear over and over is I've never loved a guy
Speaker 1: more that I've never met. That's the kind of impact.
Speaker 1: And you guys know this. You guys have done shows
Speaker 1: all over the all over the world, and you guys
Speaker 1: have had this huge following you built up. But that's
Speaker 1: blown me away how much this guy touched these people,
Speaker 1: whether it was cancer, whether it was football, whether it
Speaker 1: was you know what whatever. Um. I just I mean writers, fans,
Speaker 1: people who don't even like football, people who have never
Speaker 1: listened to the podcast I've reached out to say, I
Speaker 1: didn't even I didn't even know this guy, um, And
Speaker 1: I loved every word of the story because of who
Speaker 1: he was. So you guys had a good one. He
Speaker 1: was an awesome guy. Well I think you made um.
Speaker 1: You know, reading some of the comments, I think there
Speaker 1: are a lot of people out in America and beyond
Speaker 1: um at a corporate job and maybe you know, sitting
Speaker 1: there and reading it at work and suddenly finding themselves
Speaker 1: shedding tears because it's like we're all still sort of
Speaker 1: going through it in these very unpredictable stages. Um. But
Speaker 1: I love that you wove in some of West's humor too,
Speaker 1: because like that shouldn't be lost. Like he's the guy
Speaker 1: that like when he'd have a west Lemania, there'd be
Speaker 1: like he didn't vite podcast listeners, you know, which we
Speaker 1: wasn't always something we were aware was gonna happen, and
Speaker 1: then like he just would he would he he didn't
Speaker 1: suffer fools, but he'd be anyone's friend. And some of
Speaker 1: my most like delicious West moments are like when we
Speaker 1: would be, you know, in studio trying to tape something
Speaker 1: and he just would have a meltdown over like the
Speaker 1: headset or things like that, like he when he gets
Speaker 1: wound up, like there's only one West like that. So
Speaker 1: when I when you mentioned like hearing his laugh in
Speaker 1: his voice, like, um, I definitely feel that all the time.
Speaker 1: And the way that you opened the story by mentioning
Speaker 1: the silence that's been left behind on this show, but
Speaker 1: just in our lives. Like I thought that captured, um,
Speaker 1: how I've been feeling, how we've been feeling so perfectly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that hit that hit me hard, Like when when when
Speaker 1: you told me that, and then a couple other you
Speaker 1: guys were like, I can hear his voice when it's
Speaker 1: not there. That's something a lot of people we can
Speaker 1: relate to, right, like when you've gone through a loss.
Speaker 1: So um and and as hard as it was to
Speaker 1: write that, at the very end, like you mentioned Dan,
Speaker 1: like you're gonna hear his voice for a long time
Speaker 1: and it's just it's gonna kill you. You know, he
Speaker 1: was that special. I heard it this morning because I
Speaker 1: had I had struggled just to read it and just
Speaker 1: maybe you were gonna be on the show. And it's
Speaker 1: like I almost heard him stands like just really just
Speaker 1: you know, finish it, you know, because I remember the
Speaker 1: spot this other podcast that our friends did about his
Speaker 1: first battle too, and um like a similar a similar
Speaker 1: thing then and I just started thinking, there's yeah he
Speaker 1: talked about too. There's just magic people in your life,
Speaker 1: and sometimes they're there for a little bit, sometimes they're
Speaker 1: there for a long time, like like West was with
Speaker 1: us um and and he was just one of those
Speaker 1: people like and I don't know, it's just like everything
Speaker 1: about it, I think of just the one time I've
Speaker 1: really met you, Zach. Randomly, like I always associated this
Speaker 1: trip I had with Indianapolis to do a story about
Speaker 1: Frank Gore with West because that then, because that was
Speaker 1: when he got his first surgery, right when he got cancer.
Speaker 1: It was the first thing I did when I got
Speaker 1: got back home from that that trip, Um what was
Speaker 1: see him? And I don't know, it's like all these
Speaker 1: years later that you're you're writing about him, and it's
Speaker 1: just it's just something that's been part of Like I
Speaker 1: just I don't know why. I'm surprised, but I'm surprised
Speaker 1: how much of my life I have these sort of
Speaker 1: thoughts of these these connections that West was such a
Speaker 1: big part of, like who who we all were as
Speaker 1: as people and then and this is another one. And
Speaker 1: I think he would I think he would love what
Speaker 1: you did and he would appreciate it for sure. So
Speaker 1: we do thank you, Zach. Yeah, we really do. Zac
Speaker 1: and um. You know, part of well, I feel like,
Speaker 1: is our responsibilities helping to keep West's memory alive. And
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes and I've had a lot of like
Speaker 1: thoughts just to myself, like what is it what it
Speaker 1: mean to do this podcast if one of us isn't
Speaker 1: around anymore. Well, one reason to do it is it's
Speaker 1: it's to keep West in people's memories. And and Zach,
Speaker 1: what you wrote, Um, that's gonna be there forever digitally
Speaker 1: and whenever people want to learn more about Chris Zack.
Speaker 1: Ye for your your PC and athletic nailed it. So
Speaker 1: if you haven't read it, please read it. And again, Zach,
Speaker 1: we just say thank you for for doing it the
Speaker 1: right way and honoring a great man. Yeah, thanks for
Speaker 1: your guys help and for answering forty five text messages
Speaker 1: from me and for answering all my questions and and
Speaker 1: really talking about something that's really really hard and still
Speaker 1: really raw for you guys. So um, everything to seeing
Speaker 1: you in person, Zach, Like co Combine or Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: whenever we're all to be to be safely together, we
Speaker 1: can we can throw one back maybe at maybe at
Speaker 1: the maybe at the bar where West Uh loved in
Speaker 1: in Indianapolis, where well, if we're gonna honor West, we're
Speaker 1: gonna throw more than one back, just be prepared. And
Speaker 1: he also loved multiple bars. By the way, let's that
Speaker 1: narrowed down here, Zack, thank you again and best of
Speaker 1: luck in the upcoming season. Does great jobs covering the
Speaker 1: NFL and the Colts. Zach Keeper, thank you, buddy, Thank
Speaker 1: you guys. All right there he goes, Yeah, that was awesome.
Speaker 1: He just did such a great job with it. Boys.
Speaker 1: And I think you know when, um, he first reached
Speaker 1: out to us all and he did that right as well.
Speaker 1: He kind of reached out to us individually, taking our
Speaker 1: temperature on it. Um. There is an initial bit of trepidation,
Speaker 1: is like do you want to kind of be on
Speaker 1: record talking about him? And is it gonna come out right?
Speaker 1: Because you don't have control obviously for the final product. Um.
Speaker 1: But ultimately I know, you know, we're plugged in, Greg,
Speaker 1: You're very good and knowing like who who's legit and
Speaker 1: who's not in league circles. Uh. We lean on you
Speaker 1: with that. Uh. And he's act just seemed like somebody
Speaker 1: who thought we could handle it. And and I mean
Speaker 1: that sincerely, like it is it as time goes on.
Speaker 1: And one thing that I've learned from this and people
Speaker 1: everyone means well. Everybody means well in the NFL. As
Speaker 1: I've said on the show, all the people behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: shadowy league figures, colleagues, everybody was super cool. Um uh
Speaker 1: in the wake of West is passing in February. But
Speaker 1: like what happens with loss and people that are you know,
Speaker 1: truly close to somebody is the world moves on and
Speaker 1: people that uh new West and respected West, they say
Speaker 1: the right things and they mean it, uh of them,
Speaker 1: But then life moves on. That's just the way life is.
Speaker 1: But then for the people that are really close to
Speaker 1: someone that's that goes, you're still there and you're still
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. And we're at a certain
Speaker 1: place that's been really hard. Lakisha is at a place
Speaker 1: that we can't fathom, and there's just layers to it.
Speaker 1: Um So, I don't know, I don't even know where
Speaker 1: I'm going with this other than to say that this
Speaker 1: is an ongoing process. It feels like it happened yesterday.
Speaker 1: It feels like along time ago. But the fact that
Speaker 1: it was only um what two months ago, a little
Speaker 1: two and a half months ago, it's it's I really
Speaker 1: like what you said there Dan, because UM, I think
Speaker 1: number one and this is um not a surprising um,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess result from what's happened. But our group, UM,
Speaker 1: for all the ups and downs we've had, I mean
Speaker 1: our larger group, not just the three of us in
Speaker 1: and Ricky, but larger. I think we've grown, like UM,
Speaker 1: immeasurably closer. UM. And it's this is just a lot
Speaker 1: of like hours alone, you know, Yep, yep, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: We're gonna do We'll keep doing. I'm proud, like that's
Speaker 1: he's our friend, you know. Yeah. I think some shows,
Speaker 1: like you know who, we're trying to figure out the
Speaker 1: balance of things too. And you know, some shows we
Speaker 1: we don't talk about them. Some some shows we do.
Speaker 1: But it's all you know, it's always it's always there. UM.
Speaker 1: I just it's funny. I wish I told Zack this
Speaker 1: privately too. You mentioned like knowing um like that, just
Speaker 1: like a little bit. West and I had a conversation.
Speaker 1: We would always talk like kind of ranking beat writers
Speaker 1: or ranking beats like the Athletic and he would I
Speaker 1: knew that Zach, I knew. I knew that West was
Speaker 1: a fan of the Athletic cults beat and I knew
Speaker 1: he knew. Zack. I think you know, we talked. I
Speaker 1: talked about that trip that I had going to see
Speaker 1: Francorns of it. We talked about, oh yeah, they're really good.
Speaker 1: Zack and Stephen hold around the cold speak and that
Speaker 1: that sort of thing means means something. And it's almost
Speaker 1: like I love that I had that thing in my head,
Speaker 1: my ear from years before, like because it was meaningful
Speaker 1: for us, um to move forward and we will go
Speaker 1: to the lesbian bar that's the one I'm talking about
Speaker 1: in Indians. Well you know what I'm saying, Like, yes,
Speaker 1: it was, it was right. We don't know. It's a
Speaker 1: cold reality. Yea, yeah, that's true. It might not be
Speaker 1: for a year or two. Well hopefully, yeah it is.
Speaker 1: It's still a lesbian bar. We don't know. We don't know, um,
Speaker 1: but maybe they will find out. I mean that's why
Speaker 1: I always met I met Freddie Kitchens at that bar.
Speaker 1: It is not a lesbian bar. It is. On that
Speaker 1: one particular evening, it was a karaoke event that seemed
Speaker 1: to involve lesbians. Although West hunched above his weight with
Speaker 1: lesbian friends, like half of his friends from Tybee we're lesbian.
Speaker 1: So it's like that was just the circle that West
Speaker 1: was rolling out. What do you need your lesbian correspondent,
Speaker 1: lesbian correspondent Erica White, your tears and tell me is
Speaker 1: lesbian bar the proper nomenclature, Um, you can call it
Speaker 1: girls night. Depends on the bar, depends on the bar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there really aren't a lot of lesbian What are
Speaker 1: you talking about. They don't bring enough money. Guy spend money.
Speaker 1: Have they make more money than women? They have ladies
Speaker 1: nights at gay bars? But there really statistically aren't lesbian bars, Ricky,
Speaker 1: anything you wanted to as we get back, wasn't. By
Speaker 1: the way, that was an excellent UM report filed by
Speaker 1: you right there. Excellent. We might need the developing news
Speaker 1: drop on that one. But Ricky, you were interviewed off
Speaker 1: also obviously for that piece. Anything you wanted to add there,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can. It was it was beautifully,
Speaker 1: beautifully done and you guys summed it up perfectly. I'm
Speaker 1: just like, Oh, I have this huge photo of him
Speaker 1: behind me, and it's you know, it's in my living
Speaker 1: room and in a one bedroom apartment where my setup is.
Speaker 1: So I'll be doing my workouts, you know. And it's funny.
Speaker 1: I like every time I turn around after doing a
Speaker 1: hard set or push ups or whatever, I see Wes
Speaker 1: kind of laughing at me, and I I talked to him.
Speaker 1: It's it's like my whole life is in this one
Speaker 1: room and it and it's like sometimes I'm like talking
Speaker 1: to a damn photograph. But he I hear his voice,
Speaker 1: he's telling me, you know, it's it just doesn't feel
Speaker 1: it would mean a lot to him. Um, wherever West is,
Speaker 1: know that photos is behind you, because that again, just
Speaker 1: you know, he meant so much to all of us,
Speaker 1: and in different ways. Is that alluded to We all
Speaker 1: had kind of different relationships with Wes. Um, and that's
Speaker 1: kind of a measure of the man too, that he
Speaker 1: kind of could live in so many areas and connect
Speaker 1: with people on so many different levels. Um, I work out,
Speaker 1: we get it. Oh man, you listen. It's not like
Speaker 1: you transition to a regular football podcast after having conversations
Speaker 1: like that, and I'm not doing the like because I
Speaker 1: don't like what people do. It. It's like this is
Speaker 1: what West would have wanted. Yeah, but he would have
Speaker 1: wanted us to talk football today and not make it
Speaker 1: just all about the sadness of the situation on balance.
Speaker 1: So let's know, he like, he liked like a little attention.
Speaker 1: He did like everyone he liked. Well, I am right,
Speaker 1: we're all we've all got a little ego. But he
Speaker 1: didn't like too much. He would he would, he would
Speaker 1: want to he would want to move it on at
Speaker 1: a at a certain point for sure. So so let's
Speaker 1: let's do that. And just one more call to the article.
Speaker 1: Go find it. I know it's behind a paywall, which
Speaker 1: is tricky, and I would never tell you to find
Speaker 1: it through ways that aren't paying for The Athletic because
Speaker 1: it's a very good website. But find the article however,
Speaker 1: you can um and check out the A t N
Speaker 1: subreddit as well for discussion on it. UM. All right,
Speaker 1: big show today, UM Zach obviously awesome guests. We have
Speaker 1: another guest coming up later, Nate Tys, who is really
Speaker 1: a guy that we like in respect um in the
Speaker 1: in the draft game, and we're gonna have him on
Speaker 1: the show to talk about some prospects that are jumping
Speaker 1: out to him. The draft is not far off. I
Speaker 1: know you said we're in the what did you call it?
Speaker 1: In the last show mark the teens of April or
Speaker 1: the I can't I can't remember what it was, and
Speaker 1: I don't remember anything I said on this show, so
Speaker 1: I don't know what I said in an anonymous time
Speaker 1: of of the year, although I did think after the show, like,
Speaker 1: you're kind of ragging on April a little bit. But
Speaker 1: Colton is an April baby and me and your wife
Speaker 1: share the same birthday, also in April, so a little
Speaker 1: bit of an unnecessary pop there. And my father, so
Speaker 1: I've checked the old man offensive box possible, and and
Speaker 1: the biggest of all spots gets taken down a notch.
Speaker 1: Proud of me, now, Dad, you know, not my total intention,
Speaker 1: but you're right. The results are heard, it's stung. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be honest with you. Um yeah, So we're gonna
Speaker 1: have Nate on. And also Greg wrote a banger on
Speaker 1: the uh all the g ms in the league and
Speaker 1: Greg a little bit of a twist. Do you want
Speaker 1: to get into it? Well, we're doing news first. We
Speaker 1: could we could do whatever you want first. All right,
Speaker 1: let's do this. Let's do this. Let's do some news.
Speaker 1: Get caught up there, hit Greg's gms and then bring
Speaker 1: in Tice. What a show, not Mike Tye and Nate
Speaker 1: tie does it keep the pencil behind his ear? I
Speaker 1: guess you'll have to wait to find out. Like the
Speaker 1: old man, Mike always had that number two pencil behind
Speaker 1: his ear. He was also he also famously missed a
Speaker 1: draft pick in the first I mean, not all on him,
Speaker 1: but that the Vikings. Did you remember that? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I don't think Maybe that um is something that
Speaker 1: Nate would not want to comment on, but he probably
Speaker 1: doesn't want to get to into like the dad thing.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he gets that a lot. But but so
Speaker 1: I'll say it for Mike Tyson did a lot more
Speaker 1: winning than people remember it because because it did end poorly,
Speaker 1: there were some wild there was some fun people stories
Speaker 1: people had fun with. But he did he did a
Speaker 1: sneaky amount of winning people forgetting. And I'm sure he
Speaker 1: would respect his dad, unlike Mark with that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure what we're going here with that. I respect
Speaker 1: Mike Tyson and my father. How about that? Nailed it.
Speaker 1: Let's do some news now. I've always said I'm going
Speaker 1: to the wheels come off, and uh they' finally have
Speaker 1: fallen off due to an injury last year. I'll be
Speaker 1: making my official announcement of my retirement from football. There
Speaker 1: is Julian Edelman, uh Patriots great, one of the more
Speaker 1: productive and successful wide receivers in the history of that
Speaker 1: esteemed franchise. Listen, I don't hold anything against him. These players,
Speaker 1: they give up so much um to build football careers,
Speaker 1: and if they have a really successful one like Julian
Speaker 1: Edelman did. Who am I to mock his retirement video?
Speaker 1: But I will say the three sixty pan around Julian
Speaker 1: Edelman at midfield of Gillette Stadium with him just looking
Speaker 1: around the stadium, and I guess, awe and reverence um
Speaker 1: and really, I mean really going for it. It It probably
Speaker 1: took about thirty seconds and then he began his model log.
Speaker 1: That was the good stuff. That's the cringe comedy that
Speaker 1: I enjoy it is I'm watching that. I was just like,
Speaker 1: this is one of those things. If it was any
Speaker 1: other team, you know, favorite player, I would just be
Speaker 1: mocking this so hard. But what it's your player, You're
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, take take whatever time you need. Julian,
Speaker 1: by the way, did you make it to the very end?
Speaker 1: You probably didn't where a spaceship. A spaceship beamed him up,
Speaker 1: which was a pretty big tonal shift. I'm not even joking. Um.
Speaker 1: I liked it. It added a little I'm absolutely serious.
Speaker 1: It added a little levity to what was a little
Speaker 1: very self serious. But wait a second, so much so
Speaker 1: much effort ince of building up the gravitass you can't
Speaker 1: It's a total disconnect. It didn't really make sense. It
Speaker 1: was kind of like in a jut Apata movie sometimes
Speaker 1: they suddenly changed tone a little hard. It doesn't quite work,
Speaker 1: but but it was fun. I like that he added
Speaker 1: that to it was Julian Edelman's this is forty moment
Speaker 1: I least like Julian Edelman is the And I think
Speaker 1: I've probably mentioned this before, but the first person that
Speaker 1: I interviewed, the first player I ever interviewed at NFL
Speaker 1: dot com, and it was like when he was essentially unknown,
Speaker 1: I mean, he was well, he just he was he
Speaker 1: still though he had this like beautiful long um thor
Speaker 1: like hair. And now this was the same day where
Speaker 1: Dan and I both were dispatched. I think they were
Speaker 1: kind of testing to see, you know, if we could
Speaker 1: even do this and he Yeah, we had the chops
Speaker 1: Dan when it interviewed Brandon Lloyd. And I'll let Dan
Speaker 1: explain that. But I learned that day that that version
Speaker 1: of Edelman, I think the whole beam me up and
Speaker 1: what he was in that announcement, He's really evolved as
Speaker 1: a person. I mean, he's not tight lipped like some
Speaker 1: Patriots players were, but he was back then. And it
Speaker 1: was like five questions with Julian Edelman. I could not
Speaker 1: get him to say anything at all. And in fact,
Speaker 1: I even asked if he had like tried to get funny,
Speaker 1: if he had molded his hair off of Thor the
Speaker 1: Marvel character, and he would just looked at me like,
Speaker 1: this person is a nut. This person is a total nut.
Speaker 1: And Dan the interviewing Brandon Lloyd and having I look
Speaker 1: over and he's like they're both giggling and laughing and
Speaker 1: enjoying each other, and it's just like I learned a
Speaker 1: lot about the Patriots culture that day. Yeah, he never
Speaker 1: really got off that too much with the video, but
Speaker 1: he um, he was such a fascinating player. And the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame argument that everyone's been having on Twitter
Speaker 1: this week is so annoying because like I'm usually the
Speaker 1: first one to talk all of the last. I'm interested
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame as an entity, but you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you just wish you could just talk about um
Speaker 1: what he was as a player, because he it was
Speaker 1: so fascinating. I think there was levels to him. First
Speaker 1: of all, he had like an uncannily similar career to
Speaker 1: Troy Brown, which to me was Mr Patriots, the only
Speaker 1: Jersey I own. When I think of the two thousands
Speaker 1: in terms of the Patriots, I think of Troy Brown.
Speaker 1: When I think of the two thousand tens, I think
Speaker 1: Julian Edelman. Obviously, Brady is, you know, the guy who
Speaker 1: puts it all together, and Gronk is like a superior player.
Speaker 1: But to me, those were there too, glue eyes and
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk blue guys on on our TV show
Speaker 1: this week. And Edelman was a return guy who was
Speaker 1: an incredible return er, like one of the best of
Speaker 1: the last fifteen years as a returner, just like Troy
Speaker 1: Brown had no like receiving production for three or four years,
Speaker 1: finally gets his chance after Welker leaves and just takes over.
Speaker 1: But so dynamic. I mean a college quarterback Kent State,
Speaker 1: like a legit quarterback. It wasn't like, hey, I'm playing quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm half you know. I think they ran a
Speaker 1: crazy offense at Kent State, and he becomes this wide
Speaker 1: receiver who was a seventh round pick but was so
Speaker 1: explosive and uncanny. And I remember saying pretty early when
Speaker 1: he started coming up, like I'm taking home over Welker
Speaker 1: because he's making guys miss, He's making plays on his own.
Speaker 1: The combination of what he could do with his mind
Speaker 1: meld with Brady and the way he was just physically
Speaker 1: gifted at getting open and doing things after the catch.
Speaker 1: He was such an integral, awesome, just player, And so
Speaker 1: I don't care. I don't personally think he's a Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame. I don't care that much about that when
Speaker 1: like that's dominating the thing. He had something greater, which
Speaker 1: was like you knew him. You know everybody, you knew him.
Speaker 1: He was in all the big spots. He played his
Speaker 1: best in the biggest moments, and it's like, what's better
Speaker 1: than that? You know that, that's what people know. I mean,
Speaker 1: not here to to judge our contemporaries, but it just
Speaker 1: seemed lazy too to just break it down to just
Speaker 1: is he going to Canton or not when some guys
Speaker 1: that's not the best way. Now, could he go to
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame? He could, And I think his
Speaker 1: playoff resume is a big part of that. He had
Speaker 1: a hundred and eighteen catches from four and two yards
Speaker 1: and five touchdowns in the postseason, which is crazy. I
Speaker 1: think about when I think about his big playoff moment,
Speaker 1: Mark you and I I think West might have been
Speaker 1: with us um as well. We were at Rocko's in
Speaker 1: Culver City. It was a great back and forth playoff
Speaker 1: game with the Ravens. I think it was the last
Speaker 1: like Joe Flacco flash in the postseason where he was
Speaker 1: just going toe to toe and out playing Brady for
Speaker 1: a for a stretch of that game. Patriots come back
Speaker 1: from multiple scores and the turning play of the game
Speaker 1: was Julian Edelman throwing a perfect deep spiral on a
Speaker 1: trick play to Danny Amondola. I mean, he was just
Speaker 1: like the exact type of guy. Like not not to
Speaker 1: bring it back to baseball, but like when I think
Speaker 1: about my own dynasty I had in my life, the Yankees,
Speaker 1: like Bernie Williams, like he was the Julian Edelman of
Speaker 1: the Yankees. He's not going on the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: He was never the best player on the team, but
Speaker 1: you can't imagine how they would have been able to
Speaker 1: sustain the greatness that they did without him at the center.
Speaker 1: And I think he's one of the great all time
Speaker 1: glue guys. I think Edelman is like when you think
Speaker 1: about what it means to be a glue guy, Edelman
Speaker 1: was that for the Patriots. I still kind of think
Speaker 1: he's gonna end up on the Bucks this year, especially
Speaker 1: after the Alien closed to the video, which makes me
Speaker 1: think everything was totally a farce and insincere before that.
Speaker 1: But if this is indeed the end, and his body's
Speaker 1: probably telling him it is, it was an awesome career,
Speaker 1: can'tner No, that doesn't I mean, speaking of the Bucks,
Speaker 1: I just think that he was genuinely, you know, not
Speaker 1: a malicious way, but just hurt by Brady leaving. I
Speaker 1: don't think he was the same him after that. I mean,
Speaker 1: if I can't think of a player who bought in
Speaker 1: more to what Tom Brady was selling in New England,
Speaker 1: and they just I think Greggy used the word mind
Speaker 1: meld um. They were and in the biggest moments in
Speaker 1: January when it mattered the most. They were linked, and
Speaker 1: I just I cannot think of him in a different uniform.
Speaker 1: As much as it was weird to think about brading
Speaker 1: a different uniform, he really was the New England Patriots.
Speaker 1: And you're right about the glue guy thing, and I
Speaker 1: us a special player. Was a college quarterback. He had
Speaker 1: to come in and be so many different things to
Speaker 1: keep his role initially in New England, and he found
Speaker 1: every possible way to contribute. And that's a total Bill
Speaker 1: Belichick type player right there. His body was broken. I
Speaker 1: know we should move on. The last thing was like
Speaker 1: him winning that Super Bowl MVP in the in the
Speaker 1: Rams game on a season where he was like dragging
Speaker 1: that knee around. I that's the thing is, I don't
Speaker 1: know if he's coming back because he's you could he
Speaker 1: no one took more more hits than Edelman over the
Speaker 1: years and just seemed to be totally spit And look,
Speaker 1: I get it, Patriots fans are obnoxious. He was a
Speaker 1: small white guy that got like too much love because
Speaker 1: he was like a small white guy. But it's like
Speaker 1: it also doesn't change that he was just like such
Speaker 1: a badass um as a player, and uh, I don't
Speaker 1: know he'll have the last revenge because this Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame thing will be so annoying as a debate for
Speaker 1: the next fifteen years. Horrendous. It's a horrendous conversation. It's
Speaker 1: a bummer of a way to to to go out
Speaker 1: on his career. I would think Edelman will will say
Speaker 1: that to you if you ask him the question to
Speaker 1: which is to go out in with a bad seven
Speaker 1: and nine Patriots team. His best buddy Tom's not there.
Speaker 1: It's COVID, so there's nobody in the stands. He can't
Speaker 1: get out, he can't stay on the field. It makes
Speaker 1: me think of the because Mark, I think you nailed,
Speaker 1: And I think he probably felt like when Brady left
Speaker 1: his career in a lot of ways ended as well.
Speaker 1: When Red I was thinking about Andy after Andy escaped
Speaker 1: and he's and read still in the prison and Shawshank
Speaker 1: and he just goes, I guess I'll just miss my
Speaker 1: friend bingo. Yeah. I feel like that's the way Julian
Speaker 1: was in his final season. All right. Speaking of future
Speaker 1: Hall of Famers, potentially, Jadeveon Clowney has found a home
Speaker 1: um as predicted, it happened. Jadeveon Clowney is on the
Speaker 1: Cleveland Browns. As predicted, It's a one year contract loaded
Speaker 1: with incentives that get up to ten million if he
Speaker 1: plays well and stays on the field, And as predicted,
Speaker 1: Twitter went crazy with photoshops of Miles Garrett next to
Speaker 1: Jadeveon Clowney and various stories about the Browns big offseason
Speaker 1: capped with a big move. All that to me is
Speaker 1: hoakum as Dave Damashek would say. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: do I hate the move? Mark, I don't hate the move.
Speaker 1: It's it's worth a worth a shot, but just fire beware.
Speaker 1: You're not a guy. You're not getting the guy that
Speaker 1: was blowing up that running back in the backfield at
Speaker 1: South Carolina. You're getting a potentially broken down, near thirty
Speaker 1: guy that has struggle, struggles to stay healthy and has
Speaker 1: never put up huge numbers. I think you know, we
Speaker 1: did a Network hit with um with Baldy and he
Speaker 1: said it, you know, right or right away, that he
Speaker 1: needs to be in shape, he needs to get his
Speaker 1: body ready for football. And have you guys heard a
Speaker 1: lot about that, because when Baldi said that, that raised
Speaker 1: my eyebrow a little bit. It did a little bit.
Speaker 1: He definitely wanted to get that out there. And Baldi
Speaker 1: talks to coaches and Clowney has had a lot of
Speaker 1: surgeries in the off season over the last few years
Speaker 1: and missed a lot of offseason work. And yet I
Speaker 1: think that's that that's a factor to it. But that's
Speaker 1: what he was speaking to, that that he was not
Speaker 1: showing up in the right in the right way. I
Speaker 1: just think, like the reason that I'm not um, I
Speaker 1: don't think it's a reason to say it's a tipping
Speaker 1: point moment for Cleveland, uh and now they're unstoppable. It's
Speaker 1: like we shouldn't be looking at Jadeveon Clowney that way.
Speaker 1: It's maybe you get ten games out of him eleven.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um. You know they took a bit
Speaker 1: of a risk um signing Tach McKinley too, and so
Speaker 1: maybe the combination of those two guys and someone that
Speaker 1: you draft or a couple of guys you draft formed
Speaker 1: that right side of the defense line across from Garrett.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a Clowney come in and save
Speaker 1: the day type move. I mean the Browns, I think
Speaker 1: under Andrew Berry have done a nice job this offseason
Speaker 1: the way they did last year focusing on tight end
Speaker 1: and offensive line. This time around, the need on defense
Speaker 1: was clear. I mean, they were lashed on defense and
Speaker 1: they were injured a lot last year, but they have
Speaker 1: shored up their secondary. They get grant help it back. Um.
Speaker 1: I really liked the signing of Ronnie Harrison during the
Speaker 1: year last year. Their secondary looks like a strength right
Speaker 1: now and that kind of thing can really help the
Speaker 1: pass for USh. So maybe part of it is is
Speaker 1: Clowney in a better situation than he was in Tennessee,
Speaker 1: um or in previous years. We'll wait and see, but um,
Speaker 1: you know, he's going to a pretty good team where
Speaker 1: I think he is being put into a position to succeed,
Speaker 1: and he sounds motivated. I don't know what that means
Speaker 1: in real life, but listening to him yesterday, he said
Speaker 1: that the Browns and Andrew Berry were like relentless in
Speaker 1: pursuing him and that mattered to him. That has to matter. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, sixteen games or seventeen games during the season two.
Speaker 1: I mean I think sometimes you look at Clowney like,
Speaker 1: is the motivation there? I don't know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to speak for him, but um, he's a player with
Speaker 1: question marks. I'm not just suddenly because he's on the
Speaker 1: Browns like doing the thing that a fan does where
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, you know a favorite player, now I am.
Speaker 1: I love Clowney. He's first of all, he's twenty eight.
Speaker 1: He's been incredibly productive in his career because pressure is production,
Speaker 1: and he to me, he's you know, he's been one
Speaker 1: of the ten best defensive ends over the last years
Speaker 1: now the last two years, has been totally injured. Before that,
Speaker 1: though no one played more so it's always it's always
Speaker 1: been this public perception he's playing through injuries, but he
Speaker 1: played a thousand snaps a year. He was he was tough.
Speaker 1: Maybe he is more motivated now. But here's the thing
Speaker 1: that is, there's a no risk. Seven million dollars is
Speaker 1: nothing to me. Cap space is such a waste to me.
Speaker 1: I still don't get why this isn't like more talked about.
Speaker 1: Why Why does six seven teams, even in this year
Speaker 1: where the cap win so down, still have more than
Speaker 1: twenty five million dollars in cap space? What is that
Speaker 1: doing for you? Ultimately, You're not really going to the
Speaker 1: max of using all the resources you can to make
Speaker 1: your team better this year and spend all the money
Speaker 1: you can this year. There's no impact on next year.
Speaker 1: It's one million dollars, it's a one year contract. There's
Speaker 1: no risk to it. To all. You're taking a resource
Speaker 1: and you're doing it with a guy who who's gotten
Speaker 1: double teamed as much in the top five players in
Speaker 1: the entire NFL since he's been in it, including the
Speaker 1: last few years. So he's used to those double teams.
Speaker 1: He's used to winning battles, even if he's not like
Speaker 1: the best pass rusher in the world. Like I love it. Listen,
Speaker 1: this is exactly and I'll say the point. I don't
Speaker 1: want to be labor this, but you're talking about the
Speaker 1: guy like he's a star basically, and and and it's
Speaker 1: like he on his fourth team in four years. Why
Speaker 1: is he struggling to find a job? Deep, it's for
Speaker 1: a reason. And Baldi, like we said, plugged in as
Speaker 1: anybody's this guy doing the right things to be the
Speaker 1: best version of himself. No one's saying it's a bad signing.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's a bad signing. It's just it's
Speaker 1: just kind of like buyer, beware a little bit. Let's
Speaker 1: let's I don't know, just calm down a little bit
Speaker 1: about it. So you're a part of the reason, Greg,
Speaker 1: you're those guys think there's like this. I think and
Speaker 1: by the way, he could also be seen. You say, okay, no,
Speaker 1: it's no risk. It's you know, it's seven million dollars.
Speaker 1: What does that mean? But there's that old term, the
Speaker 1: old parcels is um maybe you can get somebody better
Speaker 1: in that spot, some when younger, maybe clowney at the
Speaker 1: stage of his career as a progress stopper. That's all.
Speaker 1: That's all say eight they can still the guitar draft someone.
Speaker 1: I love it. I just I also just like you
Speaker 1: love this sighting because uh, I gotta do it. It's
Speaker 1: good for the podcast. It's good for the podcast. It's
Speaker 1: good that the Browns are getting so hyped now, you know,
Speaker 1: I gotta do it. It's almost only one way it
Speaker 1: can go unfortunate. It's only fair that I do a
Speaker 1: sandwich prop. It just makes so much sense. So I'm
Speaker 1: gonna set uh go get my lunch prop and you
Speaker 1: guys could take me up on it if you don't
Speaker 1: want it to be sacks. I don't want sacks. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be sacks now. I don't want, so don't do it,
Speaker 1: don't take it. I'm gonna set the over under he
Speaker 1: finishes below. Oh it's a tough one, and I think
Speaker 1: Greg it's so high on him. So if he's not,
Speaker 1: I mean give me. Okay, I'll take four and a half.
Speaker 1: I mean you said if he hits five sacks, you
Speaker 1: guys get the sandwiches. He finishes under. Uh. If he
Speaker 1: finishes under, you guys, oh me, you're taking me. Better
Speaker 1: take you? Better take that. I mean that is a
Speaker 1: low number there, I'll take you. I mean I could
Speaker 1: see it go either way, but why not take you
Speaker 1: on it? Sure? I mean it would be amazing about five.
Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna go like double digits. I
Speaker 1: mean he's never had ten, so I mean to the
Speaker 1: attack like, I can't set it at eight and a
Speaker 1: half or something. I'm gonna go on the low end,
Speaker 1: I know. But wait till three of them come on,
Speaker 1: Zack Wilson, then you're gonna feel which bet gosh, we
Speaker 1: we are going on too long. Baldi did mention how
Speaker 1: teammates like love playing it. I do remember being there
Speaker 1: when he was the kind of the leader of them
Speaker 1: winning their first playoff game in franchise history. And um,
Speaker 1: I think his teammates love him. It's not like a
Speaker 1: guy like I don't think it's like you're adding something
Speaker 1: that's bad to a locker room by any means. I
Speaker 1: think player players are impressed by him, and he he
Speaker 1: was like he was the guy there. J. J. Watt
Speaker 1: was hurt and he he took over in one him
Speaker 1: a playoff game. Meanwhile, Seahawks fans are saying, why don't
Speaker 1: you talk about our over hyped veteran pass rusher that
Speaker 1: we just got. Alden Smith, formerly of the Cowboys, signs
Speaker 1: a one year contract with the Seattle Seahawks. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: here's another guy that, depending how you look at the
Speaker 1: tape and what numbers you look at, had a nice
Speaker 1: season with the Cowboys lesher. He did have a three
Speaker 1: sack game early on, but finished with five. Uh. Did
Speaker 1: get to the quarterback greg with UH some regularity, maybe
Speaker 1: wore down as a season went along, but played a
Speaker 1: lot of snaps for that Cowboys team, which I think
Speaker 1: surprised people. Do you think this is an impact signing
Speaker 1: for Seattle? I think it's worth a shot because they've
Speaker 1: left themselves a little thin. He he definitely wore down,
Speaker 1: so maybe he'll do better, you know, in a lesser rule.
Speaker 1: I know Seahawks fans are strangely excited about this defensive line. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's punaford Um, it's l J. Collier, their first round
Speaker 1: pick who's been okay and not really great. But then
Speaker 1: you got Dunlop, you got Alton Robinson who's shown some things.
Speaker 1: You have a second round pick Taylor who didn't do
Speaker 1: anything last year, Darryl Taylor, Benson Myowa, and then you
Speaker 1: add Smith to this. Like Seahawks fans don't tell them
Speaker 1: that this isn't one of the highest potential defensive lines
Speaker 1: in the league, which I don't quite get. It's it's
Speaker 1: like a lot of people, definitely, and he's one of them.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm buying it. And other signings
Speaker 1: Cordrell Patterson, he finds a new home. He lands with
Speaker 1: the Falcons on a one year, three million dollar contract.
Speaker 1: Interesting to me that Patterson and I understand. And by
Speaker 1: the way, the grave beards are flying off the board.
Speaker 1: Now this is the week where it's it's happening like
Speaker 1: I a handful in the least they wait for your
Speaker 1: article to come about. And I really do appreciate it
Speaker 1: nfl um our league, but it does surprise me. I know,
Speaker 1: he's not a dynamic wide receiver and running back. Maybe
Speaker 1: he's a gadget guy said, he's not gonna ever be
Speaker 1: a lynch pin of your offense necessarily, even if that's
Speaker 1: what I was asking of with the graybeards, But just
Speaker 1: the impact that he has on special teams, that's such
Speaker 1: a big part of football and having a guy that
Speaker 1: it's it's to me a big bargain for the Falcons,
Speaker 1: a big ad at this juncture and free agency, and
Speaker 1: I just wonder why an elite, a truly elite special
Speaker 1: teams player who could flip fields and change games, why
Speaker 1: there's not a bigger market, even if he is somewhat
Speaker 1: limited in other ways. I'm weird you. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think you know, from the Falcon side of things, I
Speaker 1: love it. I think Arthur Smith is someone that's going
Speaker 1: to find a way to maximize someone like Cordiolle Patterson.
Speaker 1: And I mean his special teams usage is excellent, and
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, the Falcons are a weird team.
Speaker 1: Right now, they have like fifty five players under contract, um,
Speaker 1: they're about four million under the cap. Because I think
Speaker 1: they're in a real they're in a puzzle, because I
Speaker 1: was reading some stuff where they basically can't even sign
Speaker 1: the rookie class right now, so it's like you're in
Speaker 1: a conundrum. There's no other team in that same thing.
Speaker 1: I know they'll figure it out, but it's like it's
Speaker 1: I think Arthur Smith is in a tough spot, and
Speaker 1: it makes me really wonder what they're gonna do at
Speaker 1: number four and what could happen there. I think that
Speaker 1: is a huge, like pivot point in the draft. The
Speaker 1: only thing I'll push back on their mark is the
Speaker 1: narrative that Arthur Smith is going to be the one
Speaker 1: to unlock Patterson. I don't know if it's gonna happen,
Speaker 1: if it hasn't happened yet, but my point being like
Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily matter. If he's doing what he's been
Speaker 1: doing on special teams his whole career. It's to me
Speaker 1: a great signing whether or not he finally finds a
Speaker 1: coach that unlocks his true potential as a playmaker for
Speaker 1: special teamers. Basically, that's kind of the top of the
Speaker 1: market for specialized just special teams, guy is about three million,
Speaker 1: like he got five Patterson when people thought maybe he'd
Speaker 1: help a little more on offense. I think people have
Speaker 1: kind of given up on that. It's about with them.
Speaker 1: I think if the Patriots weren't already paying so many
Speaker 1: guys on their special teams to an AFT three million
Speaker 1: just to be special, they probably bring him back. But
Speaker 1: it's like we are. You can only have a couple
Speaker 1: of those guys at most on your team. All right,
Speaker 1: that's what's happening in the news. All right, let's get
Speaker 1: into it. It just went up on NFL dot com
Speaker 1: and Greg, I don't want to start us off on
Speaker 1: the wrong foot here, but the headline of this piece,
Speaker 1: and it's a really good one and everybody should check
Speaker 1: it out. General Manager, Power Rankings colon NFL Draft Edition. Slammer.
Speaker 1: You know that on the power ranking Power Rankings guy,
Speaker 1: maybe the I p here the intellectual property is property
Speaker 1: of the old zeuser, the old New Blue Eyes or
Speaker 1: the new Old Blue Eyes. You're giving me some memories
Speaker 1: of the old Power Rankings guy. I did not say
Speaker 1: desk that I would not have put Power Rankings. Um
Speaker 1: last year it was like GM rankings. This time, I'm
Speaker 1: just looking at the draft only. I decided to do
Speaker 1: it only back to two thousand and fifteen, so that
Speaker 1: that's on the editors. I'm not putting I can do that.
Speaker 1: I will be Greg is gonna throw someone to the bus.
Speaker 1: But readers in generals should know that we essentially never
Speaker 1: create our own headlines. All right, Well, with that out
Speaker 1: of the way, Greg, I think things are moderately strained
Speaker 1: between us now over this. But since you did throw
Speaker 1: the editors under the bus again, I will overturn some tables,
Speaker 1: even if it's virtually to to right this wrong. But
Speaker 1: in terms of the article you wrote, let's put the
Speaker 1: focus where it belongs. And I do like you change
Speaker 1: it up this year. Note you're not involving trades when
Speaker 1: breaking down the merit of gms. You're not including uh
Speaker 1: free agent signs. It's all on draft and you went
Speaker 1: all the way down the list. And I get the
Speaker 1: feelings some GMS might be reading this piece, Greg and
Speaker 1: are holding their breath right now, tell us who do
Speaker 1: you have right now? Is the best GM in football
Speaker 1: when it comes to drafting talent? I went Chris Ballard first,
Speaker 1: he has the advantage he's only done four drafts, So
Speaker 1: it's like, I think the longer you draft, the more
Speaker 1: of a chance you have for some clunkers. And even
Speaker 1: he um you know, had a had a year his
Speaker 1: first year there seventeen. They didn't hit a lot of
Speaker 1: home runs. But if you look at what he did
Speaker 1: when he first got there, Darius Leonard, of course, Quentin Nelson,
Speaker 1: Braden Smith in that same draft, who's a really good
Speaker 1: starting tackle, uh hem Hines. That's one draft. And then
Speaker 1: you look at last year, he almost drafted the defensive
Speaker 1: rookie of the year Julian Blackman, and a couple of
Speaker 1: good offensive players in Pittman and Taylor. Right now, his
Speaker 1: hit rate is like really high. So I feel like
Speaker 1: the other GM is looking at this list Belichicks like, hey, yeah,
Speaker 1: just let him do it for ten years and think
Speaker 1: how good it's gonna be then. But right now Ballard
Speaker 1: is flying high. I I think there's nothing you could
Speaker 1: say against Ballard at this stage. I think what he's
Speaker 1: done so far h is beyond reproach. Really, um, was
Speaker 1: there someone that was that was close the number two
Speaker 1: who choice here? Was it close? Or was he was
Speaker 1: Ballard head and shoulders right now above the rest. I
Speaker 1: gotta a bit. It was kind of like they were
Speaker 1: all close when you really One thing I took away
Speaker 1: after doing this and I I went to Pro Football Reference.
Speaker 1: I looked at every draft pick. I I had different methods,
Speaker 1: how many starters and Pro Bowls and different things. It's
Speaker 1: like the difference between the best GMS and the worst
Speaker 1: when it comes to drafting over a long enough timeline,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's like that huge. So especially the
Speaker 1: guys near the top of this. Kevin Colbert with the
Speaker 1: Steelers is awesome. I mean, look at the receivers he's
Speaker 1: drafted in the last handful of years alone, Juju and
Speaker 1: Deonte Johnson and Claypool, and you had that to you know,
Speaker 1: t J. Watton, Dupree, he was right there. The one
Speaker 1: guy that surprised me being higher than I expected was
Speaker 1: Jason light Maybe I shouldn't because they just won a
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. But when you think of Brady and Gronk
Speaker 1: and and the guys they added in free agency being
Speaker 1: so important, but my I mean he drafted so many
Speaker 1: good players in Tampa and his draft last year with
Speaker 1: Windfield and Tristan worse kind of putting them over the top,
Speaker 1: like he was ranked number three. I think Jason Light,
Speaker 1: who's seen some some low rankings on the d M
Speaker 1: rankings before, he's going to be pretty excited. I mean Light,
Speaker 1: if you you know, it's not just recruiting Tom Brady,
Speaker 1: Like he set the table there with a really solid roster.
Speaker 1: And you know, we've talked about it on our show
Speaker 1: that how many good defenses um existed last year in
Speaker 1: the NFL two or three? I mean most of them
Speaker 1: feel like you know, pushovers. For the most part, the
Speaker 1: Bucks defense was a total game changing unit, and so
Speaker 1: Light deserves a lot of credit. Culbert to me, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, he has been doing it for a really
Speaker 1: long time. And you talk about like you know, Ballard
Speaker 1: having a shorter track record, but a successful one. The
Speaker 1: Steelers have been mighty um for so long under him,
Speaker 1: and he has become like the wide receiver drafting wizard,
Speaker 1: and I just think he's been an incredible asset to
Speaker 1: them and like as consistent as you could hope for
Speaker 1: from the GM position. Is there somebody, Greg And I
Speaker 1: look at I look at this list and I'm scrolling
Speaker 1: and I'm scrolling and I'm scrolling and I'm like, where's Belichick.
Speaker 1: Where's Belichick? Fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen eighteen on this list?
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick? Uh was first of all as a Patriots guy.
Speaker 1: How how hard was that? That's out of three? I
Speaker 1: mean nine guys didn't even count because they're brand new
Speaker 1: and they've only done one draft. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: did that surprise you or did that kind of just
Speaker 1: did that make sense to you as you did the
Speaker 1: exercises confirmation that he's really struggled in this category in
Speaker 1: recent years. It didn't surprise me because you know, just
Speaker 1: being a fan, like think of who are the good
Speaker 1: draft picks they've had. Joe Tuney that was pretty good,
Speaker 1: but he's not no longer on the team. That's not
Speaker 1: against the Shack Mason um and some other okay picks.
Speaker 1: I had to go back to Trey Flowers. I did
Speaker 1: my best pick, worst pick. I had to go back
Speaker 1: to to in what Trey Flowers is like the best
Speaker 1: pick they had those years you know they had because
Speaker 1: of suspension, they lose a draft pick and then they
Speaker 1: trade out. They didn't they haven't had a first round
Speaker 1: pick three times, but their picks have been pretty bad.
Speaker 1: I mean the second round defensive back picks. I just
Speaker 1: want to read them off. And all these picks were
Speaker 1: guys almost exactly that everyone watching the draft was like, really,
Speaker 1: all right, here are some defensive backs just since they
Speaker 1: have taken in the second round. Jordan Richards, Cyrus Jones,
Speaker 1: Duke Dawson, Juwan Williams, and Kyle Dugger. I like Dugger,
Speaker 1: by the way, it was a rookie last year. But
Speaker 1: the other four they get, they gave him absolutely nothing.
Speaker 1: So that the Patriots strategy is load up on second
Speaker 1: round picks because they're cheap, like they've swung and missed
Speaker 1: so many times. And also, and when you when you
Speaker 1: lose fourteen first round picks over twenty year period, for
Speaker 1: various cheating offenses, it's gonna make your job harder. It
Speaker 1: just there's no way around it. That's a fair point.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean that, well, so they've been picking
Speaker 1: their their first round pick has essentially been a second
Speaker 1: round pick for so long that I mean, some of
Speaker 1: these gms where the team hasn't advanced as quickly as
Speaker 1: you like, are picking in the you know ten slot.
Speaker 1: You know what, Colbert got it done. I mean he's
Speaker 1: picking late. Um. They've had a few whiffs too though,
Speaker 1: but I mean I like Belichick. I think is it
Speaker 1: is just the pure drafting because you want to talk
Speaker 1: about team building and leadership. I mean, Belichick is second
Speaker 1: to none. I I struggled, my eyes almost blew up
Speaker 1: on a list where Belichick is two spots removed from
Speaker 1: Ryan Pace. I just struggled with the concept of it.
Speaker 1: But I see it's it's a it's basically essentially on
Speaker 1: who they've drafted in the Patriots, they've struggled in that area.
Speaker 1: People like people like to get on Belichick for oh,
Speaker 1: he hasn't been that great a draft. He was. They
Speaker 1: were very good drafting. I would say until this Julian
Speaker 1: it's sort of fallen apart. Ever since the draft where
Speaker 1: they traded up people forget for High Tower and Chandler
Speaker 1: Jones and drafted them together. And since then they have
Speaker 1: they have had trouble. Like Howie Roseman is another guy,
Speaker 1: like I've done these GM rankings for years and Roseman
Speaker 1: in Belichick one year. I think we're one two and
Speaker 1: they're in. Belichick is always one. And it was just
Speaker 1: like the body of his work over twenty years and
Speaker 1: Roseman was always high. The Eagles were even worse than
Speaker 1: this exercise. I mean, the best player they've drafted that
Speaker 1: I could come up with in the last um, what
Speaker 1: is it four years since he took back? Over five
Speaker 1: years since Roseman like got back out of the side
Speaker 1: of the building. You didn't like was Dallas got her like?
Speaker 1: The next one was probably went in like Jalen Mills
Speaker 1: and and then a lot of misses for I want
Speaker 1: to be like, if we ever who knows where our
Speaker 1: career goes from here, but if we ever ended up
Speaker 1: working for a team website, it was the Eagles. I
Speaker 1: would demand to be on that forbidden area of the
Speaker 1: Novacare Complex in Philadelphia where all the ghosts hang out,
Speaker 1: the ghost of Chip Kelly and old Howie Roseman and
Speaker 1: that analytical guy that Roseman hated. I just want to
Speaker 1: be in that like Dusty Cobweb area the Novacare Complex.
Speaker 1: I tend to think they would they would place your
Speaker 1: office is far away from like sort of the nerves.
Speaker 1: We would be kind of like we would be Eagles podcasters.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a little bit you know, Weish
Speaker 1: is working for Atlanta Falcons Dot com or the Falcons
Speaker 1: congrats them like you we need how about um? You know,
Speaker 1: I guess it's only gonna work with like the gms
Speaker 1: that I praised. Um, John Robinson, I put you up
Speaker 1: at number six. That a lot of John Robinson love out.
Speaker 1: I put you up. John Robinson watches how Jerry Jones like,
Speaker 1: people make fun of you all the time. You know
Speaker 1: you're in the top eight. So way to go, Jerry Jones.
Speaker 1: So if you got any extra scratch sitting around, you
Speaker 1: need three podcasters to just do like an incredibly um,
Speaker 1: you know, positive cowboys podcast. We could do that for
Speaker 1: the rest. And Stephen Jones is like, can you at
Speaker 1: least give me a slash and put me in the conversation?
Speaker 1: I know, I don't know. I don't know what to
Speaker 1: do there. It's probably glasses at this point, but you
Speaker 1: don't really know. Like the guy that cleans Jerry's Jerry's glasses,
Speaker 1: get him on a slash there. Finally, John Gruden, Mike
Speaker 1: Mayock dead last Now listen, man, I get it, but
Speaker 1: I also don't get it because there has been Here's
Speaker 1: the thing we we talked about this sometimes we're talking
Speaker 1: about Cliff Kingsbury for instance, And whenever I say he's
Speaker 1: on the hot seat this year, you well, when you
Speaker 1: look at what they've made progress and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: as he since he's been there, so maybe this isn't
Speaker 1: a playoffs or bus for a cliff, And maybe you're
Speaker 1: right about that. With the Raiders, he inherited an awful
Speaker 1: team John Gruden and and he rebuilt it to the
Speaker 1: point where they are very competitive. They've failed in recent decembers,
Speaker 1: but I feel like there's more foundation since he's been
Speaker 1: there than there was when he came aboard. But you
Speaker 1: have him dead last with Mike Mayock along for the ride,
Speaker 1: so you don't agree. Obviously someone had to be last.
Speaker 1: Gedelman was second to last. They've only had three drafts
Speaker 1: and Scrutin has been there. They've had like five first
Speaker 1: round picks in the last two drafts, and the best
Speaker 1: one is probably Josh Jacobs, who didn't look great last year.
Speaker 1: You know, overall, it was okay Um Cleveland Farrell at
Speaker 1: number four. Jonathan Abron was a bit of a fiasco.
Speaker 1: Like everyone was kind of like waiting for him to
Speaker 1: come back from harden Ox and he struggled last year.
Speaker 1: Like the guys they drafted who looked good in twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen didn't look so good in and they've had some
Speaker 1: pretty big swings and misses otherwise. So he was hurt
Speaker 1: because there's only three draft to judge off of, and
Speaker 1: they've had a lot of premium picks and they haven't
Speaker 1: really hit like any big ones. I would say, I mean,
Speaker 1: you'd have to look at the Khalil Mack trade in
Speaker 1: the Hall that they got in return, and I don't
Speaker 1: think it looks that impressive. But I'd always have a
Speaker 1: question with the set up um in Las Vegas. You've
Speaker 1: got Gruden in Mayok, and I mean Mayok is a
Speaker 1: an alpha male, and you know, I think he's got
Speaker 1: a good eye for talent. But Gruden always feels like
Speaker 1: he'd be a coach that is going to grab as
Speaker 1: much power as possible. So when you you know you
Speaker 1: have to put him together like you did. I don't
Speaker 1: know who takes more of the blame there though, but
Speaker 1: I do think they have gotten better. They they he
Speaker 1: inherited a disasters. Here's here's my theory. By the way,
Speaker 1: I think he's a really good offensive coach, so I
Speaker 1: think he's coaching them up offensively really well and the
Speaker 1: rest of it, you know, you take you off the
Speaker 1: board a little bit. You take Ferrell number four, you
Speaker 1: take Rugs ahead of some really talented wide receivers like
Speaker 1: Justin Jefferson and Ceedee Lamb. You're sticking your neck out
Speaker 1: a little bit. You gotta be right on those picks.
Speaker 1: But the Ferrell and some moves they've made, uh in
Speaker 1: the front defensive front confirmed some doubts about Farrell, And yeah,
Speaker 1: Ruggs needs to hit. Ruggs needs to hit in a
Speaker 1: big way, especially with Justin Jefferson being all world uh
Speaker 1: in his first year in Minnesota. Alright, check it out
Speaker 1: NFL dot com Slash Rosenthal. If Mayok ever comes back
Speaker 1: to NFL network, I just said he won't know about this,
Speaker 1: but it seems like they always find out somehow. We've
Speaker 1: known you for like ten years, Greg, and like half
Speaker 1: of your relationships are like Larry David. There's like some
Speaker 1: uncomfortable nature to them. So it won't be I'm sure
Speaker 1: you'll be okay with it. You'll be cool. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not like he was texting me to go play
Speaker 1: doubles or anything. He definitely was not. Greg's like our
Speaker 1: version of Larry David Um. Alright, moving on Mary David
Speaker 1: money give me it. Alright, we'll work on that as well.
Speaker 1: All right, good talk their what a show that Keefer
Speaker 1: talking about the Mailman did some good news. Greg's GM
Speaker 1: column fire and now to cap things off, it is
Speaker 1: draft season, so let's get a rising star in the
Speaker 1: draft analysis game. Uh. He is a contributor for The Athletic,
Speaker 1: He writes draft reports for Bleacher Report, and he is
Speaker 1: a second time visitor to the Around the NFL podcast.
Speaker 1: Let's welcome back Nate Tye. Welcome back, buddy, Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me so two times. When is there like a
Speaker 1: cap after five or like a T shirt with your
Speaker 1: name on it after ten or something like that. No,
Speaker 1: there is, There's definitely not a cat cap. But we
Speaker 1: and this kind of this peak the curiosity of our
Speaker 1: listenership for sure, that I kind of let it slip
Speaker 1: that we do have like a hit it and quiddit club.
Speaker 1: People that are one non hit wonders go off kind
Speaker 1: of yeah. And you know, if you don't, if you
Speaker 1: don't bring the heat, and for whatever reason you rub
Speaker 1: us the wrong way, whether it's your performance or even
Speaker 1: your internet connection, it could be it then your your history.
Speaker 1: So Nate, I think this confirms that we view you
Speaker 1: as an asset on the show. And uh and you
Speaker 1: know it's it's a uh Mark and Greg little test.
Speaker 1: The draft blind spot maybe is a little too strong,
Speaker 1: but also spot on. We need help sometimes. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's too strong. I think it may be accurate.
Speaker 1: It's not our thing. We really take over. We take
Speaker 1: the baton once these guys hit the pro level. But
Speaker 1: we need help and and we want to talk about, um,
Speaker 1: some of these prospects that are interesting to you. Let's
Speaker 1: start at quarterback, Nate. I mean, everybody loves to talk quarterback. Um,
Speaker 1: Justin Fields is a guy who it depends who you
Speaker 1: talk to. You know, obviously he's one of those guys
Speaker 1: that's a somewhat polarizing figure. Where do you fall on
Speaker 1: Fields and where he fits into this and whether people
Speaker 1: will be smacking their foreheads one way or the other
Speaker 1: a couple of years and now about where he went. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a huge fan of Fields. I have him.
Speaker 1: Originally it was the big four quarterbacks and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, now it's a big five. All of
Speaker 1: a sudden, after we just watched mac Jones for an
Speaker 1: entire year, but also now everyone wants to love him
Speaker 1: for this past month. But I feel that too overall
Speaker 1: or two overall, my like just prospects and also just
Speaker 1: behind Trevor Lawrence, and I think he's closer to Trevor Lawrence,
Speaker 1: who I do view as truly a generational quarterback prospect.
Speaker 1: I feel I I view fields as closer to him
Speaker 1: than any of the other quarterback prospects. Like I am,
Speaker 1: I'm extremely high on him. I just think he kind
Speaker 1: of he checks all the boxes, especially as a modern quarterback,
Speaker 1: and not everyone wants to talk about, oh yeah, it's big,
Speaker 1: he's athletic, the classic trade stuff, but he's just so
Speaker 1: intelligent and just what he does every every week, weekend,
Speaker 1: week out, what he's doing with the House State offense,
Speaker 1: because it's just such an aggressive offense that's very down
Speaker 1: the field, very very just attack the attack. I mean
Speaker 1: actually it's a uh if you guys remember like the
Speaker 1: late Danny Green and my dad's often is in Minnesota,
Speaker 1: like those type that type of scheme. Just everything's down
Speaker 1: to field, down to field, down the field, and he's
Speaker 1: so accurate at all three levels. That's what's stunned me?
Speaker 1: I had heard of justin fields. You guys said, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't focus on these guys until they're the NFL.
Speaker 1: I'm about a half step bear and you guys like
Speaker 1: I watched I watched Wisconsin football games, a couple other
Speaker 1: big games and that's about it, like ten college games
Speaker 1: a year basically. Um. And so I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: what's the hype on this guy? I watched him. I
Speaker 1: was just shocked how accurate he was. And I mean
Speaker 1: it's all three levels. And he has the athleticism and
Speaker 1: the body control to kind of like even when he's
Speaker 1: off balance and anything or anything like that still put
Speaker 1: it on the money. So that I think he really
Speaker 1: is almost as complete of a package as you can
Speaker 1: get at the quarterback position. I love it. I mean
Speaker 1: he does throw dimes. That's the thing. Like you you
Speaker 1: watch him. I'm no draft nick, but it's like fifty
Speaker 1: five yards down the field like it's nothing, yep on
Speaker 1: the spot. Like accuracy should be the number one thing.
Speaker 1: And and it's funny. I've I've watched what's happening this
Speaker 1: week in the Cognis sent the and it it was
Speaker 1: predictable they're getting to the point where I at least
Speaker 1: felt like I was thinking about a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: which was just like, well, maybe let's not spend all
Speaker 1: this time killing the mac Jones pick before they wait
Speaker 1: they make it for the forty nine, because like what
Speaker 1: I mean, granted a lot of pre draft process, you know,
Speaker 1: talk is like a waste of time. I think the
Speaker 1: fact that there was no combine here, like this was
Speaker 1: the time of year. By the way, our friend Chris Wesling,
Speaker 1: he hated this time here because it's like it's a
Speaker 1: lot of hot air. It's a lot of narratives changing
Speaker 1: without anything changing. But my thing was kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we have all these smart people you're watching justin Fields.
Speaker 1: He's a pocket guy, he can throw off platform, he's accurate.
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe the forty Niners don't want to.
Speaker 1: Maybe they do, but like, let's let's see what happens
Speaker 1: before we kill it, and maybe by the end of
Speaker 1: this process they do take him, and everyone's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: actually that makes sense, Like are you with me? Are
Speaker 1: you with me? That they could do that, or that
Speaker 1: they could take Trede Lance and that maybe this is
Speaker 1: just like a whole bunch of people being wrong. By
Speaker 1: the way, Adam Schefter and Rappaport are often wrong on
Speaker 1: like predicting where the draft guys are gonna go. It's
Speaker 1: just a fact. I plug my fingers in my ears
Speaker 1: and just go. As soon as I have my opinion
Speaker 1: on a player, I just go la la la la,
Speaker 1: la la la la, because it's just like, what what
Speaker 1: is a pro day in short's going to tell you? Like,
Speaker 1: why does that change anything? We we overestimate how much
Speaker 1: that changed. Maybe it does, I mean for some decision
Speaker 1: makers sadly, but it's like, what what changes with these guys?
Speaker 1: We have the film on them already. I do think
Speaker 1: it is a smoke screen. I do think at three
Speaker 1: they're going Fields or Lance. It's just so it just
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to me, Like you just watch these
Speaker 1: guys and you're like, I get it. Which one do
Speaker 1: you think if if you had to guess, because like
Speaker 1: Lance is a bit of a mystery to us. I
Speaker 1: think Fields, uh is the pick? But or or what
Speaker 1: they would have have above. But I can see the
Speaker 1: argument for Lance and and Lance I compared to Donovan mcnapp,
Speaker 1: Like if you want to get like a little close
Speaker 1: your eyes like kind of like picture of what a
Speaker 1: player he is, even the over to exaggerated, over the
Speaker 1: top delivery, like watch him throw like and you guys
Speaker 1: will know you know that time period, you'll be like.
Speaker 1: And he wears number five too, so that also adds
Speaker 1: to it. So it's like, oh my god, this guy's
Speaker 1: a lot like Manette. He's big, he's like about six
Speaker 1: to and change, but he's thick. He's very well built.
Speaker 1: All these guys are well built, except you know, Zack
Speaker 1: Wilson's a little skinnier. But it's I I think it's fields.
Speaker 1: That's that's a personal thing. But if they went Lance there,
Speaker 1: I get it, like because his upside is just huge
Speaker 1: and he's Lance is so much more. He's an unprecedented
Speaker 1: kind of prospect FCS, all that stuff. You guys have
Speaker 1: heard it, even if you're not paying attention to it.
Speaker 1: It's that he was so much more intelligent and more
Speaker 1: polished than I was expecting when I was watching him.
Speaker 1: He he makes adjustments and protections he um, which was
Speaker 1: like you can tangibly see it, like you can. It's
Speaker 1: not me just guessing. It's like you watch him, he's communicating,
Speaker 1: and then after the fact you hear stories about like, no,
Speaker 1: that's him communicating. He's changing the protection points and he
Speaker 1: was doing that as a retchirt freshman, which is just
Speaker 1: like holy crap, Like that is like some really really
Speaker 1: interesting stuff to watch. And he's just a very mechanically
Speaker 1: sound he's almost sometimes a little too robotic, like he's
Speaker 1: like too well coached, Like he's like, okay, get to
Speaker 1: the first raid, Okay, now to the second raid. Okay,
Speaker 1: he has to speed it up a little bit, but man,
Speaker 1: he he has a lot of tools to work with.
Speaker 1: He's supposed to be an outstanding kid. You can see
Speaker 1: the intelligence every time he's playing, and that's really cool.
Speaker 1: So he's a little less of a project and even
Speaker 1: I was expecting when I was first watching him, but
Speaker 1: he still is a little bit just you know, adjustment
Speaker 1: to speed of the game. But I think it's fields
Speaker 1: are lance because I just can't see them move up.
Speaker 1: For Mac Jones, who who I think is more like
Speaker 1: a Chad pen Pennington type then a guy that's like
Speaker 1: uh m v P type candidate or a guy that's
Speaker 1: like an All Pro Pro Bowl candidate year after year
Speaker 1: with before that was like it's a compliment and a diss.
Speaker 1: That's the thing. It's like, it's, yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but that's what I'm trying. Oh man, I should I
Speaker 1: hate that I'm saying this, but people on Twitter I
Speaker 1: took that as a diss. I'm like, have you guys
Speaker 1: watched Chad Pennington? Do you remember Chad Pennington? Like this
Speaker 1: is that? Like that was really compliment? Yeah, he was good.
Speaker 1: He was good. But that's that's a good little snapshot
Speaker 1: in your head. That what I kind of project to
Speaker 1: mask more of like a number eight, number nine, seven
Speaker 1: best quarterback in the league. Good can be very good
Speaker 1: with a good system around him, where you know it
Speaker 1: kind of has a year way as a Pro Bowl
Speaker 1: year with a really good team around him, you know.
Speaker 1: But it's that's his upside, Like you're talking about Andy
Speaker 1: Dalton a little bit. Well, I was, first of all,
Speaker 1: I am mystified by the concept of the Niners um
Speaker 1: having to delve into smoke screens when they're sitting at
Speaker 1: number three. I mean, it's one thing if you to
Speaker 1: me that that's the whole separate thing. But I would
Speaker 1: ask this almost on behalf of of Dan and Jets
Speaker 1: fans like it's kind of ticketed that it's Zack Wilson
Speaker 1: to the Jets. I wondered one if if that could
Speaker 1: change during this process. We're getting close to the draft,
Speaker 1: so maybe it's just their guy. But if you're the
Speaker 1: Jets and you're sold on Zach Wilson, what about him
Speaker 1: could sell you over Fields, over Lance, over the rest
Speaker 1: of these guys, Because I mean, it just seems like
Speaker 1: a foregone conclusion that it's Lawrence and then Zach Wilson
Speaker 1: and I are the Jets that sure they seem like
Speaker 1: they are right. I actually did say to somebody, actually
Speaker 1: literally yesterday, I said, if Joe Douglas with this, this
Speaker 1: was the biggest smoke screen ever and Joe Douglas ended
Speaker 1: up taking like Fields at two, I would be I
Speaker 1: Ke'd be like my favorite GM because like just to
Speaker 1: be able to like just get everybody off the smoke
Speaker 1: of the scent and just also goes completely different. Um,
Speaker 1: Wilson is he's exciting that. I'm gonna openly admit that
Speaker 1: he's a very exciting player. I have a lot more
Speaker 1: negatives on him than the other three guys that I've
Speaker 1: We've already talked about what we don't really talk Lawrence,
Speaker 1: but you get it. But it's it's with Wilson, it's uh,
Speaker 1: you know, he that creating the play, creating off the
Speaker 1: platform stuff. He is accurate, like I do see a
Speaker 1: lot of the accuracy. My knox with him was that
Speaker 1: he you know, he's skinnier, he's under tune or ten pounds.
Speaker 1: Um he lent like like to fourteen as pro day,
Speaker 1: but whatever, that's water weight. He you know, he's skinny.
Speaker 1: And if you're under tun or ten pounds, if you
Speaker 1: look at the history of quarterbacks are under tuner and
Speaker 1: ten pounds. I hate that making such a big deal
Speaker 1: about weight, but it actually holds up. You have to
Speaker 1: be a freak athlete like Vick or Are or Mark Boulger,
Speaker 1: and that's it. Like that, that's it if you're under
Speaker 1: ten pounds and that's a sixth round pick. I think
Speaker 1: Boulger was. What was your weight at Wisconsin? You were
Speaker 1: you know, famously Russell Wilson's backup with it where you
Speaker 1: above to ten? Oh yeah, I was two thirty two.
Speaker 1: I hung out with a lineman. So there was a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of beer, a lot of unhealthy eating.
Speaker 1: Point to that, to that point. So you played D
Speaker 1: one college ball. Is that something where you know these
Speaker 1: guys fill out and now talking as a jet span
Speaker 1: a little bit. The idea like he's not gonna probably
Speaker 1: be at two ten five years from now or or
Speaker 1: certain body types. Is he just always gonna seem to
Speaker 1: you or probably end up as an undersized guy in
Speaker 1: terms of the weight. I think it's like there could
Speaker 1: be addressed. Well, you know how like Derek Carr's built,
Speaker 1: you know, he's kind of thin. Don't come at Zack
Speaker 1: Wilson right now, Nate and I see that. I see that,
Speaker 1: But that is that that's a great, great point. I
Speaker 1: think he is maxed out as far he can get stronger,
Speaker 1: you can get it up to you to ten. But
Speaker 1: it's more like that's just a snapshot of his frame
Speaker 1: and it's like he is he is skinny. I hate
Speaker 1: that I talk about like all these like body type stuff,
Speaker 1: but it does hold up. It's just like the skinny
Speaker 1: he has kind of that skinny leg frame where it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: he seems to be already kind of there's not like
Speaker 1: a lot of room for growth that I can see.
Speaker 1: What about Tod Brady's combined photo. What is it give
Speaker 1: be that accurate that like every single ball is gonna
Speaker 1: be all the money. See, I mean I'm a little uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: yeah with this skinny shaming and it's tough out there.
Speaker 1: Um for a small frame, guys. Mark knows what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. Like we were getting um some nice swag,
Speaker 1: you know, thank you to the podcast department. Awesome, Like
Speaker 1: we got some swag in the mail. But like if
Speaker 1: you're asking for that, men's small. They don't got it.
Speaker 1: They don't even they don't even have that as it's
Speaker 1: gonna be baggy. You wouldn't be small, Mark, but I
Speaker 1: would be. And it's like we don't have that. Where
Speaker 1: the medium ahead. I'm a I'm a bona fide medium,
Speaker 1: and I've you my body is you know, just maybe
Speaker 1: a tick uh left of pristine. So I don't don't
Speaker 1: bump me in with your your business excel and proud
Speaker 1: here um Nate. So let's move off quarterbacks for a second. Um,
Speaker 1: I got back down to excel recently, and I'm so
Speaker 1: proud of myself, Like like I'm so proud of myself.
Speaker 1: It's so hard getting to xuft to like fit properly
Speaker 1: and also it's like excel. I'm like, oh yeah, that's nice.
Speaker 1: That's nice that every now everything's baggy. It's like this
Speaker 1: is great. Yeh th h I c c um no.
Speaker 1: So wide receivers, let's talk wide receivers. Jamaar Chase obviously
Speaker 1: everybody's in love with him, Davanta Smith, Jalen Waddle, the
Speaker 1: two Alabama receivers. Um. You see how in year one
Speaker 1: these guys can hit and become immediate playmakers and stars
Speaker 1: as we saw it with Justin Jefferson just to name
Speaker 1: one example last season. Outside those three guys I just mentioned,
Speaker 1: is there someone else in this draft class or a
Speaker 1: couple of guys however many you wanted to talk about
Speaker 1: that jump at you that could be immediate contributors. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite players in the draft period and
Speaker 1: actually my receiver to um ahead of Chase, which is
Speaker 1: kind of crazy. It's it's splitting hairs is Rashad Bateman
Speaker 1: from University of Minnesota, and I I love Bateman. I
Speaker 1: I think he is just like a no brainer going
Speaker 1: to be a contributor to day one type of player
Speaker 1: and has the upside to be to be more like
Speaker 1: I am a big big fan of his. Just the
Speaker 1: polish he brings, the route running. He's doing three oh
Speaker 1: one level stuff. Um as a true junior, actually really
Speaker 1: as a true sophomore was his real tape. This year
Speaker 1: was weird. He had COVID, he he opted out, originally
Speaker 1: played a couple of games, then he opted out again.
Speaker 1: Like kind of a weird season for him. But his progression.
Speaker 1: He's super young too, He's come he's twenty. I think
Speaker 1: he just turned twenty one. He's only a couple of
Speaker 1: months younger than Jamaar Chase, who everyone brings up his age.
Speaker 1: This guy was dominating to just but he was just
Speaker 1: you know, a couple months older I should say than Chase.
Speaker 1: And but just the that polish that uh, right away,
Speaker 1: he's gonna be a route running technician. My original arison
Speaker 1: for him was Allen Robinson. Um, he weighed a little less.
Speaker 1: He weighed one ninety on his pro day and I
Speaker 1: was like, but then he had thirty three arms, So
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, there we go. All right, there
Speaker 1: was the size that I was seeing. So really the
Speaker 1: comparison more is more like a Calvin Ridley type. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know that, but just gonna be like a
Speaker 1: little snapshot in your head of what his type of
Speaker 1: style is. He could play inside and out. Uh, Like
Speaker 1: I keep bringing up his route running because this it's
Speaker 1: really impressive to see um a guy doing that at
Speaker 1: a young age in college. And he's just a guy
Speaker 1: that does everything well or better. Everything is good or better.
Speaker 1: There's no like true true weaknesses, which is really cool
Speaker 1: to see a lot of his issues or like what
Speaker 1: people's concerns were with his speed. Um, And I was
Speaker 1: just laughing. I was like, he's from Georgia, the state
Speaker 1: of Georgia, and he was a late bloomer and then
Speaker 1: he went to Minnesota. And I keep making a joke.
Speaker 1: It's like just because he went above the Mason Dixon
Speaker 1: line doesn't mean he got slow. Like you know, he's
Speaker 1: he still has he's still fast, Like he timed to
Speaker 1: four three nine is pro day. He's more like a
Speaker 1: four or four eight four or five two type of guy.
Speaker 1: But it's it's not a weakness. It's just like he's
Speaker 1: not given to me. To the Patriots, then they can
Speaker 1: they can't get Fields. I mean my dream scenario is
Speaker 1: is definitely Fields falls and they like trade up to
Speaker 1: nine with Detroit or whatever Detroit or whatever the number
Speaker 1: and they go get justin fields. But backing that up, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, try try another receiver. Give it, give up
Speaker 1: on kill Harry. This is a deep receiver draft. Listen
Speaker 1: to Nate Nate Tyson. I mean you're saying he's up
Speaker 1: there with Jamar Jase. Some people think he might not
Speaker 1: even get drafted in the first round. So that is
Speaker 1: all take. This is much like um, when our friends
Speaker 1: spice Rack came on uh and went hard on was
Speaker 1: it Jonathan Williams? And really his reputation as a draft
Speaker 1: analyst was was going to be based on that player.
Speaker 1: So if right, if you want to be on the
Speaker 1: three timer club, Nate, I think it's going to really
Speaker 1: depend on You're gonna have to hit and it's gonna
Speaker 1: be one year later, like we have to wait. It's
Speaker 1: like we're proofing the puddy. No. I just honestly, I
Speaker 1: am a believer in this guy. I just think he
Speaker 1: the qualities you bring. But actually that's one of my
Speaker 1: favorite fits, is the Patriot fit, because especially with the
Speaker 1: guys they signed this offseason, his skill set is just
Speaker 1: like a perfect synergy for what they need to need
Speaker 1: because he can be like a true true X and
Speaker 1: then move around on other on like third down, just
Speaker 1: like Davante Adams does comes into slot on third down,
Speaker 1: Like he can do that stuff, and I think he
Speaker 1: can do it early on. So that's why I'm just
Speaker 1: so high on him, as you guys can tell. But
Speaker 1: it's good. I can't wait to glad I stuck my
Speaker 1: flag and somebody already and no reputations staked on that.
Speaker 1: That's great. I have a weird one for you, like, like, so,
Speaker 1: one thing that I've heard little whispers of, like over
Speaker 1: the years is that you know, society is changing. Um,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of a lot of guys just
Speaker 1: start as tough as they used to be. We don't
Speaker 1: have as many like farm boys and stuff. Do you
Speaker 1: worry about the future of, for instance, this offensive lineman
Speaker 1: in general where that position comes from, Like, is there
Speaker 1: at some point, um a scarcity of people willing to
Speaker 1: do that as their career and really even just have
Speaker 1: sort of the physic old body for it, or is
Speaker 1: that just hogwash? A little bit of hogwash. I think
Speaker 1: as long as somebody is good, it's gonna especially when
Speaker 1: tackles start getting paid a lot um. Actually it's kind
Speaker 1: of interesting. If you asked me that five years ago,
Speaker 1: maybe five six years ago, I actually been like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I could see the concerns and these last couple of
Speaker 1: draft classes and who's entering the league, especially last year's
Speaker 1: tackle draft. Um, you can see like an influx of talent.
Speaker 1: More athletic guys are playing offensive line. It's very interesting.
Speaker 1: More guys that I think would have been pegged as
Speaker 1: defensive lineman guys are like, hey, we can make this work.
Speaker 1: You don't have to be three thirty. Now you can
Speaker 1: be three oh five and just be more athletic. The
Speaker 1: weasi just becoming more and more in an athletic league.
Speaker 1: I mean it always is, but just more. I mean,
Speaker 1: look at linebackers like that's the number one position to
Speaker 1: look at it, look at it like, but I think
Speaker 1: I think more athletic guys are playing the old line.
Speaker 1: And also in college, they college coaches got so excited
Speaker 1: about running as many ball plays as possible, running a
Speaker 1: twenty plays, especially in the Pact twelve, in the Big twelve,
Speaker 1: and then now they've kind of realized and found that
Speaker 1: sweet spot of eighty to ninety plays because when they
Speaker 1: were running a hundred and plays. They weren't teaching the
Speaker 1: old ligned like don't finish, just come back, get the
Speaker 1: next play, Get the next play. That's I mean, it's
Speaker 1: swear to god. That was their coaching point. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like finishing, grind him to the ground and like, you know,
Speaker 1: like get back in the huddle. You know, like it
Speaker 1: was more like go go go, go, go go go.
Speaker 1: It was just trying to run a fast break offense.
Speaker 1: So no coaching was happening. And I think now it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: it's come back a little bits, swinging back just a
Speaker 1: little bit where these guys actually have to play football
Speaker 1: and and honestly, and the other position shot kind of changes.
Speaker 1: These top corners are getting bigger and bigger. You should
Speaker 1: see these top two guys this year. And I think
Speaker 1: it's because these guys since middle school. The NFL has
Speaker 1: been a passing league since these guys were in middle school,
Speaker 1: so these guys would have been receivers. But now there's
Speaker 1: six one. They go, no, play corner. You're gonna get
Speaker 1: paid if you play corner. These guys are getting smarter
Speaker 1: about that. And just like when all their trainers and
Speaker 1: all their their family and friends around them. They're guiding
Speaker 1: them to different positions. You tried to bury the millennials. Um, surprising,
Speaker 1: moved by Mark, but at work, and thank you Nate
Speaker 1: for sticking up for them. Yes, Greg, defender of millennials.
Speaker 1: That's why you had me on the show. Is a
Speaker 1: cool millennial Jackety, it fits, it fits, Nate. Uh, we
Speaker 1: feel smarter after having you on the show today, and
Speaker 1: and thank you again, and we're all we're Sean Bateman
Speaker 1: and it's all going back to Bateman. Ra Sean Bateman.
Speaker 1: This is what it's gonna come down to here. Uh
Speaker 1: and Fields Fields being closer to Lawrence than to Listen
Speaker 1: and Lance. So definitely some justin Fields that that good.
Speaker 1: That could save you if Bateman doesn't work out. You
Speaker 1: just gotta hit on one of them. Just want al right,
Speaker 1: my two favorite players now check out Nate Tye at
Speaker 1: Nate underscore Tys on Twitter and follow all this stuff.
Speaker 1: Obviously a man who was plugged in and understands the game. Nate,
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us and we'll talk to you later.
Speaker 1: Thanks Na, thank you all right there he goes. Good
Speaker 1: to have Nate. Um um, good show. A lot of
Speaker 1: stuff there, so again Uh, Zach Keiffer at The Athletic.
Speaker 1: If you haven't seen the story, go read it on
Speaker 1: Chris Westling. Very happy how that turned out. And um
Speaker 1: and we'll be back on the network side Friday with
Speaker 1: of course the Around the NFL broadcast. Please check that out,
Speaker 1: and then back on Monday with another week of podcast
Speaker 1: as we get closer to the draft. So thank you
Speaker 1: anything you wanted to add there, you're a little hum there.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Stephen Cohen, the editor at The Athletic
Speaker 1: who as a listener and I know UM had had
Speaker 1: exchange messages with west over the years two and it
Speaker 1: was a big part of that. He's a good man,
Speaker 1: good dude, and I know he played a role in
Speaker 1: the article seeing the Light of Day as well, So
Speaker 1: thank you to Stephen. All right, good stuff this Dan
Speaker 1: Hads signing off four Flights Star on the Old Boss
Speaker 1: and Rickey Hollywood behind the Virtual Glass until Monday. He's
Speaker 1: a call S S S S