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Speaker 1: School of Humans.

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Speaker 2: This is Queer Chronicles.

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Speaker 3: This is my personal entry Queer. This is Queer Chronicles.

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Speaker 4: Hey everyone, what you're about to hear is a conversation

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Speaker 4: about hormone replacement therapy HR team. You'll hear folks talking

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Speaker 4: about their experiences. But please note that this is not

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Speaker 4: medical advice. If you have any questions or concerns, please

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Speaker 4: consult your doctor. You can also check out our list

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Speaker 4: of resources in the show notes. This episode also contains

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Speaker 4: mentions of suicide, so please take care as you listen.

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Speaker 2: I did not think to do this for the previous weeks,

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Speaker 2: but I'm Connor. This is my voice. Oh wow, wow, Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's how we're doing this. This is my voice three

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Speaker 2: weeks on tea.

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Speaker 4: For some teens, turning sixteen means getting a driver's license,

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Speaker 4: but for Connor, this milestone birthday represented a step toward

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Speaker 4: a different kind of freedom.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much since I came out as chance, I was

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Speaker 2: wanting to do HRT and I was kind of expecting

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Speaker 2: having to wait a really long time. But I brought

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Speaker 2: it up with my mom and she was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: when you turn sixteen, that'd be a lot easier than

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Speaker 2: we can get that, and I turned sixteen and my

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Speaker 2: doctor's appointment was the day of my sixteenth birthday, so

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Speaker 2: that was pretty cool.

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Speaker 4: From School of Humans, The Outspoken Podcast Network, and iHeart Podcasts,

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Speaker 4: This is Queer Chronicles, a show where queer folks document

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Speaker 4: their personal lives and experiences in their own words, and

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Speaker 4: I'm your host, Raquel Willis. This season, a group of

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Speaker 4: teenagers are sharing their perspectives on growing up queer, trans

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Speaker 4: and gender non conforming while living in.

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Speaker 1: Mostly where It States.

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Speaker 4: Today, we're talking about hormone replacement therapy, an important kind

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Speaker 4: of gender affirming care.

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Speaker 2: HRT is hormone replacement therapy, which for me basically just

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Speaker 2: means I have girl hormones, I said, girl weird. I

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Speaker 2: have girl hormones that make me go through girl puberty

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Speaker 2: and make my body and my voice and stuff like

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Speaker 2: that seem like a girl. And by taking testosterone, I

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Speaker 2: can reverse some of those effects or just change them

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Speaker 2: and essentially go through parts of male puberty, which will

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Speaker 2: then give me some of those male features and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that. I'm probably most so conscious about my voice,

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Speaker 2: so it's going to be really nice to be able

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Speaker 2: to hear myself and not feel bad about it.

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Speaker 3: Already.

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Speaker 2: I hear that it changed, and I really like it.

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Speaker 2: I think it's really cool. I live in Tennessee and

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Speaker 2: HRT for minors is going to be illegal Tennessees.

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Speaker 4: SB one denies all miners the right to trans healthcare.

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Speaker 4: The lawless passed in July of twenty twenty three and

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Speaker 4: is slated to go into effect in March twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: The plan is to find somewhere, probably no annoy where

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Speaker 2: I can keep doing it through there, and I'm lucky

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Speaker 2: enough to both be able to do that and have

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Speaker 2: a mom that's willing to make that drive. So overall,

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Speaker 2: for me, it's not that bad. It's just kind of annoying.

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Speaker 2: But what really upsets me about that is I know

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Speaker 2: the effect it's going to have on a lot of

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Speaker 2: other people, including my friends and in general. A trans

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Speaker 2: care being available for minors is suicide prevention. That's what

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Speaker 2: it is. It doesn't matter what you believe or what

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Speaker 2: you think is right for kids, but just like listening

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Speaker 2: to them and letting them do what is right for

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Speaker 2: them is suicide prevention. If you're not allowing your kids

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Speaker 2: to be who they are, then you're not making them

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Speaker 2: less trans you're just making them less happy.

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Speaker 4: As of recording this episode, approximately twenty states have passed

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Speaker 4: restrictions to gender firm and care for folks under age eighteen,

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Speaker 4: while others are considering similar legislation and policies.

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Speaker 2: Even though it's being.

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Speaker 4: Used as a political tool and there's a lot of

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Speaker 4: fear mongering around it, taking hormones is very safe. In fact,

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Speaker 4: it's not even controversial when prescribed for CIS folks. CIS

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Speaker 4: guys who take testosterone to look good in the gym.

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Speaker 4: That's HRT Appausal women on estrogen child that's HRT too.

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Speaker 4: People regardless of gender need hormonal interventions for a number

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Speaker 4: of reasons, and particularly when transfolks opt for HRT, it

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Speaker 4: can be extremely important for our mental health. In fact,

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Speaker 4: leading organizations like the American Medical Association, the American Academy

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Speaker 4: of Pediatrics, and the American Psychiatric Association support access for

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Speaker 4: gender firm and care for trans folks of all ages.

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Speaker 4: All of this is despite conservative politicians and pundance obsession

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Speaker 4: with D transitioning that is, the ending or reversal of

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Speaker 4: a gender transition, and let's be clear, D transition is

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Speaker 4: largely an uncommon phenomenon. Personally, I just celebrated my eleven

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Speaker 4: year anniversary of taking estrogen back in twenty twelve. I

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Speaker 4: knew that I wanted my external appearance to match my

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Speaker 4: interior world. And right about now, honey, I couldn't imagine

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Speaker 4: my life any other way. My experience is just one

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Speaker 4: of a black trans woman, and that's one perspective. And

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Speaker 4: we wanted to hear from young folks who are navigating

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Speaker 4: similar feelings but at a different age, in a very

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Speaker 4: different way and at a very different time. For two

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Speaker 4: of our teens, gender affirmation looks like taking testosterone.

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Speaker 5: I never even understood, like the concept of like what

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Speaker 5: makes something masculine or feminine?

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Speaker 4: That's it who you heard in previous episodes. But here's

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Speaker 4: a reminder, it's nineteen lives in Arizona and just goes

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Speaker 4: by it and uses it as a pronoun two.

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Speaker 5: For years, I parroted what I thought was true, and

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Speaker 5: I forced myself to be high masculine and then hyperfeminine

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Speaker 5: to rage against that. And I've gotten to the point

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Speaker 5: where I'm just like, why don't I just exist?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 5: And that's something that has been really important to me recently,

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Speaker 5: is just like letting myself exist as I am without

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Speaker 5: trying to force.

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Speaker 3: It in any way.

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Speaker 5: I always feel more comfortable when i'm testosterone. I've been

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Speaker 5: on and off of it for years because of insurance

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Speaker 5: and various life circumstances, but I've been back on it

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Speaker 5: for a decent amount of months now pretty consistently, and

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Speaker 5: I'm feeling great about it because it helps me feel

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Speaker 5: more comfortable with the body that I pretty much already had.

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Speaker 5: But it just feels different, and I don't really know

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Speaker 5: how to explain it other than it feels like magic

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Speaker 5: to me.

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Speaker 4: You know, Oh, that's beautiful. Let's explore this feeling of

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Speaker 4: magic that testosterone, or as we call it in community tea,

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Speaker 4: can have for folks from a diverse range of ages

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Speaker 4: and experiences. So in this conversation you'll hear from our teens,

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Speaker 4: Connor and It, as well as another friend of the

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Speaker 4: show named Sky.

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Speaker 6: I knew from like a very very young man that

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Speaker 6: the whole girl thing was not it didn't work, Like

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Speaker 6: I never identified as a lesbian, Like none of that

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Speaker 6: ever made sense to me.

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Speaker 4: Sky's experience is a little different than most of the

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Speaker 4: people you've heard on the show. They're thirty three and

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Speaker 4: started taking tea in adulthood. Sky waited because they had

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Speaker 4: a lot of uncertainty about taking hormones in their teens.

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Speaker 6: It was like, the only thing that held me back

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Speaker 6: from test Shawstone was fear of what other people would think.

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Speaker 6: And then when I was first coming out, like when

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Speaker 6: I was a teenager, I had a friend who was

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Speaker 6: not using tea as prescribed and was experiencing some really

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Speaker 6: negative effects from it and had a lot of rage

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Speaker 6: and like at a period for a month and a

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Speaker 6: half straight, and I was like, well, I don't want

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Speaker 6: that to be my life. And I thought that's just

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Speaker 6: what happened when you were on tea, So I was

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Speaker 6: like terrified of it. I finally just hit i don't know,

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Speaker 6: like a spiritual emotional breaking point where I just realized that,

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Speaker 6: like my own happiness mattered more than what anybody else

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Speaker 6: thought about me, and I just kind of took the dive.

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Speaker 4: Now, after a few years on tea, Sky's perception of

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Speaker 4: themselves and the world has changed a lot, and our

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Speaker 4: teens have started to experience that change too.

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Speaker 2: Here's it.

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Speaker 5: There's certain aspects of taking testosterone and like certain reasons

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Speaker 5: stuff that are not discussed enough because they're seen as

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Speaker 5: something that it's two one savory or like too inappropriate

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Speaker 5: to talk about, even when they're just about your anatomy changing.

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Speaker 5: It shouldn't be inherently considered a bad thing to talk about.

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Speaker 5: There's this issue of both having fear mongering about HRT

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Speaker 5: while also having misinformation and just lack of information on

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Speaker 5: it at the same time. That makes it very hard

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Speaker 5: to navigate trying to figure it out almost entirely on

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Speaker 5: your own.

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Speaker 4: It's right. It is a lot to figure out on

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Speaker 4: your own, especially if you're already busy exploring and uncovering

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Speaker 4: your gender and sexuality. And that's where it was. A

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Speaker 4: couple years ago.

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Speaker 5: When I was eleven or twelve, I had thought that

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Speaker 5: I might be clear in some way, Like I thought

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Speaker 5: I was bisexual at one point, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 5: I'm a lesbian. And then I did the thing that

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Speaker 5: everyone does where they're like, oh, I'm going to look

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Speaker 5: up what.

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Speaker 3: A lesbian looks like and I'm going to dress like that,

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Speaker 3: where I.

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Speaker 5: Was like, I had like this SpongeBob flat build that

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Speaker 5: I was with.

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Speaker 7: It was like kind of like like psychedelic, like gory

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Speaker 7: spongebomb and I would cut my shirts in the muscle

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Speaker 7: tees and I cut my flannels which I was already wearing.

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Speaker 3: I didn't really know if.

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Speaker 8: I identified with the label lesbian, because I was like, I

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Speaker 8: don't think that I feel like a girl. So I

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Speaker 8: I looked into it more and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 8: I'm non binary.

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Speaker 4: Once it realized it was trans, curiosity was sparked around

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Speaker 4: taking testosterone at a summer use camp. Folks helped it

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Speaker 4: navigate questions about starting treatment. For anyone looking to start hormones,

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Speaker 4: the first step is to find an HRT provider. You

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Speaker 4: can ask your doctor for referral search in a database

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Speaker 4: like my trans Health, or connect with your local trans

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Speaker 4: community online shout out to them. We have a resource

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Speaker 4: guide in our show notes with a link to an

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Speaker 4: article called a Beginner's Guide to Hormone Replacement Therapy. There

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Speaker 4: you can find some ideas and recommendations for places to start.

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Speaker 4: When everyone got together for this zoom call, Connor told

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Speaker 4: us he had been on.

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Speaker 2: Tee for months and a half. Maybe I meant to

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Speaker 2: keep track and then I didn't and I still haven't.

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Speaker 2: I very much could go look at the calendar and

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Speaker 2: see the date. I'm not gonna at this point, I'm

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Speaker 2: committed to not knowing.

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Speaker 4: I love that for him, and I know that even

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Speaker 4: after a month and a half on moons, you can

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Speaker 4: start to see and fill some real changes.

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Speaker 3: For me, those.

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Speaker 4: First few months on estrogen felt like an awakening of

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Speaker 4: senses and feelings within my body. It felt like a

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Speaker 4: second puberty. I noticed changes that I could have never anticipated,

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Speaker 4: buds and softer skin, and it felt exciting and new

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Speaker 4: and unique. Connor's been seeing some changes in these early

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Speaker 4: weeks too.

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Speaker 2: I would say the voice is the main thing I notice.

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Speaker 2: I think it took like two weeks for my voice

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Speaker 2: to start cracking. Maybe a little less than that.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And the past few singing lessons I've had have been

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Speaker 2: really funny because my singing teacher does not like to

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Speaker 2: his credit, he's done a ton of research on it,

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Speaker 2: but like also, it's kind of a new thing for

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Speaker 2: both of us, and we'll do like the warm ups

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Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, cool, So your high range is

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Speaker 2: completely gone, but you can get down to a B

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Speaker 2: two now, which is lower than the CIS student I

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Speaker 2: have right before. So that was pretty exciting, and it's

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Speaker 2: also a lot more fun to sing when you know

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Speaker 2: that if you just make terrible, terrible noises with your mouth,

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Speaker 2: it's not your fault, because oh, it gets bad. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: it's like, oh, is that a train coming? Nope, it's

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Speaker 2: just me trying to sing like a totally reasonable like.

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Speaker 1: Noe, your girl can relate. Here's some advice.

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Speaker 4: Spare your ears and don't take me to karaoke anyway.

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Speaker 4: Connor's noticed another big shift in himself too.

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Speaker 2: And I've actually noticed being like less angry than usual

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Speaker 2: because I am also autistic. I get a lot of

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Speaker 2: like physical energy in my body whenever I feel an

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Speaker 2: emotion stronglyguage. Sometimes it is anger, and then I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be that guy that's punching bulls.

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Speaker 2: But that's kind of what I was worried about going

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Speaker 2: into it. And I've noticed that I felt that like

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Speaker 2: a lot less, which is really weird to me, because

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm supposed to just be angry all

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Speaker 2: the time, is the way they make it sound. But

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Speaker 2: I'm actually more normal than usual.

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Speaker 4: You can't see or hear this, but It and Sky

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Speaker 4: are both in enthusiastically nodding along to Connor's observations about

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Speaker 4: his mood.

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Speaker 6: It was the same experience for me. Of I was

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Speaker 6: really worried that I was going to be angry all

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Speaker 6: the time, and I feel like I am so much

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Speaker 6: more even keeled. My mood has never been better than

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Speaker 6: when I've been on testosterone, and that's been awesome.

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Speaker 5: There is so much misinformation about how food is affected,

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Speaker 5: because there's this idea that men are just inherently more

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Speaker 5: aggressive and angry, and people think that it's because.

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Speaker 9: Of testosterone, and it.

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Speaker 5: Really has so much more to do with conditioning, and

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Speaker 5: it's really frustrating.

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Speaker 4: Okay, let's take a second to back up what it

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Speaker 4: is saying here. In our culture, there's a long held

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Speaker 4: belief that testosterone causes certain behaviors in masculine folks, particularly

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Speaker 4: when it comes to aggression, but there's some new research

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Speaker 4: that suggests the link between tea and aggressive behavior is

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Speaker 4: actually very weak. A twenty nineteen book called Testosterone and

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Speaker 4: Unauthorized Biography challenges those beliefs, finding all sorts of flaws

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Speaker 4: in those age old arguments. The book also highlights other

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Speaker 4: factors that play a huge role in the way masculine

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Speaker 4: folks navigate the world, like socialization.

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Speaker 5: I was like I don't understand why people keep asking

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Speaker 5: if testosterone is what's making me angry.

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Speaker 2: I'm just mad.

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Speaker 3: Like being a fourteen year old in the world.

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Speaker 5: Is hard, especially with mood disorders. I was going through

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Speaker 5: a very hard time. I still felt better about myself.

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Speaker 5: I became less aggressive. I was never like physically aggressive,

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Speaker 5: but I did yell quite a lot as a kid.

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Speaker 3: I was having what I now know to be malknowns.

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Speaker 5: As an autistic person, and it would result in me

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Speaker 5: like rock back and forth, screaming and like not knowing

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Speaker 5: what to do, shutting down basically, And a lot of

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Speaker 5: that was blamed on testosterone when I started it, and

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Speaker 5: it was very much like if you keep screaming, I'll

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Speaker 5: take you off testosterone.

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Speaker 9: It was like a threat.

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Speaker 3: And that's hard.

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Speaker 9: Because it's like you don't know how to articulate.

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Speaker 3: This is the one thing that's keeping me sane. Wall

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Speaker 3: around useling.

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Speaker 4: One common reason people start HRT it is because they're

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Speaker 4: hoping to see some physical changes. Those shifts are different

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Speaker 4: for everyone. They really depend on your dosage, how long

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Speaker 4: you take the medication, and the unique makeup of your body.

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Speaker 4: The way you take the hormones may have an effect too.

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Speaker 4: There are a few different options. The most common are patches, pills, gels,

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Speaker 4: or injections, no matter how you take it. If you're

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Speaker 4: on TEE, there are a few changes that folks can

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Speaker 4: generally expect to see. One is your voice getting deeper

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Speaker 4: like Connor mentioned, and your menstrual cycle might change. You

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Speaker 4: could see more muscle mass, body fat may shift from

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Speaker 4: your hips and thighs to other areas. You're likely to

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Speaker 4: get more pimples, and a lot of folks see their

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Speaker 4: libido increase.

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Speaker 6: I had to be reminded multiple times that, like I

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Speaker 6: was going through a second puberty, and like I had

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Speaker 6: the terrible experience of being a teenage girl, and now

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Speaker 6: I get to have the experience of being a teenage boy,

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Speaker 6: which came with all of the acne that I never

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Speaker 6: really got rid of to begin with, and then came

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Speaker 6: back full force. And like people told me, yeah, you'll

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Speaker 6: have an increased sex drive, but I didn't quite understand

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Speaker 6: what that meant. And like I have more empathy for

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Speaker 6: CIS male teenagers.

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Speaker 4: Now, Okay, so we covered tea, but estrogen is a

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Speaker 4: whole another story. Testosterone may give you more sets, and

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Speaker 4: estrogen could make your skin softer. But it isn't always

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Speaker 4: a one to one comparison. They aren't perfect opposites. For example,

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Speaker 4: estrogen is not known to change your voice, you know,

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Speaker 4: make it higher. When I learned that at the start

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Speaker 4: of my medical transition, I opted for vocal therapy. I

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Speaker 4: was lucky or honestly privileged because I was able to

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Speaker 4: do this with therapists at my alma mater, The Universe

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Speaker 4: of Georgia. They inspired me to tap back into a

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Speaker 4: femininity I had as a kid that I tried to

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Speaker 4: lose because I was teased for it. In therapy, I

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Speaker 4: tried to get my voice to reach what's often considered

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Speaker 4: a more androgynous range because I was never going to

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Speaker 4: have a Betty boot voice, excuse me, a stereotypically feminine voice.

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Speaker 4: But when I thought about it more, the beautiful, powerful

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Speaker 4: Southern Black women in my family didn't fit those stereotypes either,

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Speaker 4: So along the way, I unlearned that desire and leaned

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Speaker 4: into what made me one of a kind. For Connor,

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Speaker 4: in addition to his voice getting deeper, there was another

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Speaker 4: major body change that he was really looking forward to.

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Speaker 2: Another thing I really wanted was facial hair because I

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Speaker 2: feel like that's probably my biggest obstacle besides just like

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Speaker 2: my body in passing, because I am like I'm fat,

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Speaker 2: to put it plainly, And I also have very large

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Speaker 2: breasts and that's kind of awful because there's nothing I

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Speaker 2: can really do about that, especially like the past two

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Speaker 2: places of work, I've had to wear like an apron

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Speaker 2: and they're always too small, so it's like, wow, Wow,

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Speaker 2: I really look like that. Huh.

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Speaker 3: But I'm not.

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Speaker 2: Really sure like how much the fat redistribution does happen,

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Speaker 2: because there's not really any way to quantify it since

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Speaker 2: it's different for everyone. But that's another thing that I'm

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Speaker 2: kind of hoping for slash looking forward to.

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Speaker 6: I was also very excited about the potential for fat redistribution,

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Speaker 6: which I will say does happen, so like I notice

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Speaker 6: a lot more belly now, but a lot less hips.

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Speaker 6: And I was really scared about the body hair because

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Speaker 6: I already was a person with a good amount of

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Speaker 6: body hair, and you know, like I learned some things

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Speaker 6: from my doctor, and honestly, I learned a lot of

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Speaker 6: stuff from Reddit. I will never forget reading something. And

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Speaker 6: somebody had asked, like, when they talk about getting body hair,

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Speaker 6: do you get hair on your butt? Is it on

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Speaker 6: your butt? Is it in your butt? And somebody just

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Speaker 6: responded yes. I always had a good amount of body hair,

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Speaker 6: and when the world was perceiving me as a woman,

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Speaker 6: that was something I felt a lot of shame about.

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Speaker 6: And my body hair could be exactly the same. But

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Speaker 6: if people are not seeing me as a woman in

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Speaker 6: the world all of a sudden, there's no shame around it.

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Speaker 9: My mein things that happened at first, for my bone

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Speaker 9: structure was changing. My shoulders are broader than my hips now,

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Speaker 9: which was not what it was for my hips were

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Speaker 9: actually broader on my shoulders.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know about botom growth.

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Speaker 5: That was not that steered me because I didn't know

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Speaker 5: what was going on, and it.

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Speaker 3: Hurt a lot.

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Speaker 4: If you didn't catch that. It just referenced something called

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Speaker 4: bottom growth, or when the glitteris enlarges. This is another

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Speaker 4: body change that typically happens when folks start taking tea.

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Speaker 4: It's totally normal, safe, and to be expected, but it

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Speaker 4: doesn't get talked about a lot, and the experience can

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Speaker 4: be really jarring.

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Speaker 5: I was like worried that something was going wrong, but

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Speaker 5: I didn't feel comfortable talking to anyone about that. So

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Speaker 5: I just kind of like dealt with it and was like,

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Speaker 5: I'll be fine.

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Speaker 3: I was. It turns out that's supposed to happen.

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Speaker 5: But it's something that I really think is important to

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Speaker 5: look into and ask other people who have been on

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Speaker 5: testosterone about it, especially if they've been on it for

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Speaker 5: a little bit of a longer time, because it absolutely

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Speaker 5: is usually the first thing that you see change like

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Speaker 5: that happened within the first week for me, and it

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Speaker 5: can be scary, especially if you're younger and you don't

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Speaker 5: really know what's going on.

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Speaker 4: Since hormones affect every person so differently, it's hard to

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Speaker 4: know what to expect the beginning of your journey. Now

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Speaker 4: that it's Sky and Connor have all been on tea

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Speaker 4: for a while, I wanted to know what they wish

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Speaker 4: they had known in the beginning. Connor started us off

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Speaker 4: with advice for all the singers out there trying to

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Speaker 4: hit their high notes.

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Speaker 2: The advice I would give is keep singing through the

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Speaker 2: high range because eventually, like even as your voice is settling,

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Speaker 2: you'll kind of get it more in your head of like,

399
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Speaker 2: oh okay, like this is what I need to do

400
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Speaker 2: differently to hit those same notes. It's really freaky at

401
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Speaker 2: first if you're really attached to where your voice is

402
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Speaker 2: at as far as singing goes, but you can get

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Speaker 2: it back, you just kind of have to relearn it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, fir One thing that came up that I had

405
00:25:07,965 --> 00:25:11,165
Speaker 6: forgotten about but was reminded of in this conversation is

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Speaker 6: I used to cry a lot. I still have all

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Speaker 6: of the feelings. I still feel sadness, like, I have

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Speaker 6: my full range of emotion, but physically it is harder

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Speaker 6: for me to produce tears now than it used to be,

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Speaker 6: and that's not something I was prepared for.

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Speaker 8: I want to add on to that that, like, it's

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Speaker 8: sometimes physically painful.

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Speaker 5: The feeling of like having tears feel like it's like

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Speaker 5: going up your throat in like behind your eyes, but

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Speaker 5: not being able to produce them is sometimes painful, and it's.

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Speaker 3: Gotten worse, Like over time, I've noticed like a lunger.

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Speaker 3: I've been on.

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Speaker 5: Tysosterone, And it's not something that like has dissuaded me

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Speaker 5: from taking tysosterone, but it is something like you kind

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Speaker 5: of have to train yourself to express your emotions in

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Speaker 5: ways that aren't tears, because tears literally pulling is self soothing,

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Speaker 5: so when you're not getting that, you have to find

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Speaker 5: these like busying your hands or.

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Speaker 3: Like trying to focus yourself.

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Speaker 5: I rub my eyes a lot, and I feel like

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Speaker 5: I should be crying, but I'm not.

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Speaker 6: The other thing that is not so much about the

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Speaker 6: testosterone itself, but it took me some time to figure

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Speaker 6: out how to deal with men who were strangers treating

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Speaker 6: me totally differently. It has been a wild experience for

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Speaker 6: me of like the level of respect that I receive

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Speaker 6: from strangers who are men just because they perceive me

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Speaker 6: as either a boy or a man, I don't know,

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Speaker 6: but anything other than what they saw me as before.

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Speaker 4: As your body changes, the world might start perceiving and

436
00:26:48,965 --> 00:26:53,845
Speaker 4: reacting to you in a new way. I definitely experienced.

437
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Speaker 3: This as a kid.

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Speaker 4: I always felt like my gender was under a microscope,

439
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Speaker 4: but once I began to transition, the lens shifted. The

440
00:27:04,125 --> 00:27:08,205
Speaker 4: things that I used to be judge for, especially my femininity,

441
00:27:08,765 --> 00:27:13,165
Speaker 4: were now expected of me. Connor said he started to

442
00:27:13,205 --> 00:27:15,245
Speaker 4: notice people perceiving him differently too.

443
00:27:17,085 --> 00:27:20,845
Speaker 2: Due to some other health issues, I had to quit

444
00:27:20,885 --> 00:27:23,125
Speaker 2: my job and quit an internship I had lined up,

445
00:27:23,485 --> 00:27:27,165
Speaker 2: which really sucks. But my second to last day at work,

446
00:27:27,645 --> 00:27:30,525
Speaker 2: someone called me, sir, and I was like, all right,

447
00:27:30,565 --> 00:27:32,685
Speaker 2: I can. I can go out in a blaze of glory.

448
00:27:32,685 --> 00:27:37,325
Speaker 6: Now I see myself exactly the same as I did before.

449
00:27:37,565 --> 00:27:40,645
Speaker 6: Like for me, it's like I'm the same person. It's

450
00:27:40,725 --> 00:27:45,205
Speaker 6: just y'all are seeing me differently. I feel like accepting

451
00:27:45,245 --> 00:27:49,805
Speaker 6: my transness and starting on this journey has expanded my

452
00:27:50,645 --> 00:27:54,925
Speaker 6: awareness in so many ways, and it makes me look

453
00:27:55,125 --> 00:27:58,605
Speaker 6: like even more. I was already looking at the patriarchy

454
00:27:58,685 --> 00:28:02,485
Speaker 6: a lot, but like looking at it even more now,

455
00:28:02,965 --> 00:28:07,445
Speaker 6: and like, how can I help subvert this culture from

456
00:28:07,445 --> 00:28:11,925
Speaker 6: like this new unearned position of power I have just

457
00:28:11,965 --> 00:28:14,925
Speaker 6: because people see me as something that is not who

458
00:28:15,005 --> 00:28:18,205
Speaker 6: I am.

459
00:28:18,365 --> 00:28:23,045
Speaker 5: It's weird how testosterone can HRT in general changes.

460
00:28:22,685 --> 00:28:24,885
Speaker 10: Your relationship with yourself in a lot of ways, and

461
00:28:24,925 --> 00:28:28,325
Speaker 10: also the relationship with people around you. And I've heard

462
00:28:28,405 --> 00:28:31,885
Speaker 10: countless stories of trans people going on HRT and being

463
00:28:31,965 --> 00:28:35,685
Speaker 10: like I'm not day anymore, or like I'm not straight anymore.

464
00:28:35,685 --> 00:28:38,685
Speaker 10: My sexuality changes, or is it that it's like I

465
00:28:38,725 --> 00:28:43,045
Speaker 10: think it's because your relationship with the concept of gender

466
00:28:43,165 --> 00:28:45,885
Speaker 10: changes when you start messing with it, Like that's when

467
00:28:45,925 --> 00:28:49,405
Speaker 10: it's like it feels like it's a different thing now,

468
00:28:49,485 --> 00:28:52,165
Speaker 10: like it doesn't feel as rich as it was before.

469
00:28:56,045 --> 00:29:00,285
Speaker 4: What it just said really hits the mark. When you

470
00:29:00,365 --> 00:29:03,405
Speaker 4: start to take control of your life, a whole world

471
00:29:03,525 --> 00:29:07,045
Speaker 4: opens up, and that world well might not look like

472
00:29:07,085 --> 00:29:10,525
Speaker 4: the one you're used to. That's the beauty of hearing

473
00:29:10,605 --> 00:29:16,485
Speaker 4: our folks talk about their experiences with HRT candidly, because

474
00:29:16,525 --> 00:29:20,205
Speaker 4: going through a change like this takes courage and an

475
00:29:20,245 --> 00:29:26,045
Speaker 4: openness to expand your perspective. It's not rigid, it's not general,

476
00:29:26,525 --> 00:29:29,085
Speaker 4: it's personal and it's you.

477
00:29:31,125 --> 00:29:52,965
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break.

478
00:29:44,085 --> 00:29:49,165
Speaker 4: And we're back when we left off. It's Sky and Connor.

479
00:29:49,405 --> 00:29:52,405
Speaker 4: We're telling us about some of the ways their lives

480
00:29:52,725 --> 00:29:57,725
Speaker 4: have changed since starting team. It's hard to overstate just

481
00:29:57,925 --> 00:30:02,725
Speaker 4: how impactful taking hormones can be for folks mental health.

482
00:30:03,485 --> 00:30:07,565
Speaker 4: If you'll remember, Connor even said at the very beginning

483
00:30:07,645 --> 00:30:12,765
Speaker 4: of this episode that HRT is a form of suicide prevention,

484
00:30:13,685 --> 00:30:16,765
Speaker 4: and he spent a lot of time thinking about it.

485
00:30:19,405 --> 00:30:21,685
Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time trying to figure out

486
00:30:22,045 --> 00:30:24,245
Speaker 2: why people think the way they do. My big thing

487
00:30:24,405 --> 00:30:28,845
Speaker 2: is psychology. My plan is to get my doctor in psychology,

488
00:30:29,245 --> 00:30:34,805
Speaker 2: and so I kind of wanted to see where transphobic

489
00:30:34,885 --> 00:30:37,365
Speaker 2: people were coming from. And I feel like when it

490
00:30:37,405 --> 00:30:42,685
Speaker 2: comes to people who are specifically in the trans healthcare

491
00:30:42,725 --> 00:30:46,925
Speaker 2: for minors debate, they feel like their children are being

492
00:30:47,365 --> 00:30:53,685
Speaker 2: turned against themselves, and in a lot of cases people

493
00:30:53,805 --> 00:30:58,925
Speaker 2: are like scared for their children, And where that comes

494
00:30:58,925 --> 00:31:03,165
Speaker 2: from is like, sometimes it's solely from a like, well,

495
00:31:03,965 --> 00:31:06,365
Speaker 2: I don't want you to permanently change yourself when it

496
00:31:06,365 --> 00:31:08,725
Speaker 2: could just be part of growing up or because other

497
00:31:08,765 --> 00:31:11,045
Speaker 2: people are doing it, which is a horrible thing for

498
00:31:11,045 --> 00:31:13,165
Speaker 2: a child to hear, because for one thing, there's no

499
00:31:13,245 --> 00:31:15,085
Speaker 2: such thing as a permanent state of the self, and

500
00:31:15,165 --> 00:31:18,805
Speaker 2: for another thing, like saying I'm not going to acknowledge

501
00:31:18,845 --> 00:31:22,445
Speaker 2: you growing and changing just because it might end in

502
00:31:22,485 --> 00:31:25,205
Speaker 2: the future is an incredibly damaging way to handle that.

503
00:31:26,525 --> 00:31:29,005
Speaker 6: When I came out around sexuality and when I came

504
00:31:29,005 --> 00:31:32,085
Speaker 6: out around gender with my mom, what I heard her

505
00:31:32,125 --> 00:31:35,645
Speaker 6: say for over a decade was like, I just don't

506
00:31:35,645 --> 00:31:38,845
Speaker 6: want the world to be harder for you. And I

507
00:31:38,885 --> 00:31:42,085
Speaker 6: feel like a lot of parents like the intention is good,

508
00:31:42,325 --> 00:31:45,005
Speaker 6: and like her intention was like, well, I just don't

509
00:31:45,005 --> 00:31:48,325
Speaker 6: want the world to be hard for you, And it

510
00:31:48,365 --> 00:31:50,805
Speaker 6: took me over a decade to sit down with her

511
00:31:50,845 --> 00:31:53,925
Speaker 6: and have the conversation that like, the world is going

512
00:31:54,005 --> 00:31:57,765
Speaker 6: to be the world, like it's going to be what

513
00:31:57,805 --> 00:32:04,365
Speaker 6: it is, but you not supporting me makes everything feel harder.

514
00:32:04,965 --> 00:32:07,525
Speaker 6: Like I'm going to take on the world because that's

515
00:32:07,565 --> 00:32:09,765
Speaker 6: what I'm going to do no matter what. But it

516
00:32:09,805 --> 00:32:13,605
Speaker 6: feels so much easier when you have my back than

517
00:32:13,645 --> 00:32:15,805
Speaker 6: when I feel like I'm fighting against you too.

518
00:32:18,685 --> 00:32:23,245
Speaker 4: Disclaimer I don't have any children, so here's my advice

519
00:32:23,325 --> 00:32:27,285
Speaker 4: on parenting. I feel like it's important for parents to

520
00:32:27,405 --> 00:32:32,525
Speaker 4: understand that you're raising an individual, so be aware of

521
00:32:32,565 --> 00:32:36,205
Speaker 4: your baggage, the trauma, and the triggers that you may have,

522
00:32:36,805 --> 00:32:41,005
Speaker 4: and try your best not to project those onto your child.

523
00:32:41,845 --> 00:32:45,205
Speaker 4: I think all of us deserve the blank canvas of

524
00:32:45,245 --> 00:32:49,245
Speaker 4: our lives, and we deserve to adorn it however we

525
00:32:49,325 --> 00:32:54,245
Speaker 4: see fit, and this is especially true for queer and

526
00:32:54,405 --> 00:32:55,125
Speaker 4: trans youth.

527
00:32:56,405 --> 00:33:00,805
Speaker 2: I feel like there's a lot of fear around your

528
00:33:00,885 --> 00:33:04,885
Speaker 2: child wanting to change themselves in a way that they

529
00:33:04,965 --> 00:33:07,965
Speaker 2: might not be to reverse. And what a lot of

530
00:33:08,005 --> 00:33:11,165
Speaker 2: parents thinks, well, if I say no or if I

531
00:33:11,165 --> 00:33:13,245
Speaker 2: ignore it, then it's going to go away and they're

532
00:33:13,285 --> 00:33:15,125
Speaker 2: going to be happy with themselves the way they are,

533
00:33:15,565 --> 00:33:18,125
Speaker 2: which is what every parent wants for their kid is

534
00:33:18,125 --> 00:33:20,045
Speaker 2: they want them to be happy with who they are

535
00:33:20,325 --> 00:33:22,765
Speaker 2: and like what's going on in the world around them.

536
00:33:23,245 --> 00:33:27,245
Speaker 2: But that's not how it works. By denying your child

537
00:33:27,285 --> 00:33:31,005
Speaker 2: the right to be who they actually are, you're setting

538
00:33:31,085 --> 00:33:33,765
Speaker 2: that kid up for a lot more problems.

539
00:33:35,085 --> 00:33:38,285
Speaker 5: Something that's very important is like explaining that this isn't

540
00:33:38,725 --> 00:33:39,645
Speaker 5: running away.

541
00:33:39,365 --> 00:33:41,125
Speaker 3: From yourself, it's running to yourself.

542
00:33:41,125 --> 00:33:45,485
Speaker 5: It's running into who you want to grow into, grow

543
00:33:45,565 --> 00:33:52,445
Speaker 5: to be, it's wanting to wanting to grow up, because

544
00:33:52,725 --> 00:33:55,565
Speaker 5: in a lot of ways, it feels like sometimes you're

545
00:33:55,605 --> 00:33:58,645
Speaker 5: not gonna there's like different camps right now. It's like

546
00:33:59,045 --> 00:34:01,165
Speaker 5: there's the camps of people who just don't get it,

547
00:34:01,605 --> 00:34:04,645
Speaker 5: which I think is probably the majority of people who

548
00:34:04,765 --> 00:34:09,605
Speaker 5: are like have these like transphobic opinions. The majority of

549
00:34:09,605 --> 00:34:12,405
Speaker 5: the people just don't get it, or or listening to

550
00:34:12,405 --> 00:34:13,885
Speaker 5: people who are actively trying to.

551
00:34:13,805 --> 00:34:14,765
Speaker 3: Make them not get it.

552
00:34:15,445 --> 00:34:19,045
Speaker 9: And the scary part is the people that are doing

553
00:34:19,125 --> 00:34:20,285
Speaker 9: it on purpose, you know.

554
00:34:23,205 --> 00:34:25,925
Speaker 6: I think there's an element of like people fearing what

555
00:34:25,965 --> 00:34:30,045
Speaker 6: they don't understand, and there's also an element of being

556
00:34:30,125 --> 00:34:32,965
Speaker 6: afraid of like if you see a trans person that

557
00:34:33,125 --> 00:34:38,325
Speaker 6: is like living authentically and loving their life. Then like,

558
00:34:38,885 --> 00:34:42,405
Speaker 6: what does it mean to look at like the places

559
00:34:42,485 --> 00:34:46,045
Speaker 6: where regardless of your identity, where you have accepted what

560
00:34:46,165 --> 00:34:50,965
Speaker 6: society has told you you must be everybody regardless of gender,

561
00:34:51,125 --> 00:34:54,325
Speaker 6: regardless of whether you're sis or trans, Like, everyone gets

562
00:34:54,365 --> 00:34:56,925
Speaker 6: put in these boxes where like men have to be

563
00:34:57,045 --> 00:35:00,325
Speaker 6: strong and women have to be graceful, Like all of

564
00:35:00,365 --> 00:35:03,245
Speaker 6: this is so made up, but it gets put on

565
00:35:03,405 --> 00:35:07,205
Speaker 6: all of us. And I think that's like a pain

566
00:35:07,325 --> 00:35:10,765
Speaker 6: that sits with all of us in different ways. And

567
00:35:10,845 --> 00:35:13,085
Speaker 6: I think like the world would be a very different

568
00:35:13,085 --> 00:35:16,645
Speaker 6: place if like all of us could just like love

569
00:35:16,885 --> 00:35:20,565
Speaker 6: and see and accept ourselves as we are. And this

570
00:35:20,645 --> 00:35:24,165
Speaker 6: transition for me has been like stepping into my integrity

571
00:35:24,205 --> 00:35:29,525
Speaker 6: and my authenticity and feeling more solid than ever before.

572
00:35:31,285 --> 00:35:36,765
Speaker 4: One thing's for certain. We all have expectations, and youth

573
00:35:36,925 --> 00:35:40,765
Speaker 4: come into the world holding the expectations of all of

574
00:35:40,805 --> 00:35:45,085
Speaker 4: those around them, especially their parents. So it can be

575
00:35:45,285 --> 00:35:48,725
Speaker 4: hard when they buck up against those understandings of who

576
00:35:48,725 --> 00:35:53,725
Speaker 4: they're supposed to be. But I believe that young people

577
00:35:54,205 --> 00:35:58,805
Speaker 4: have a core awareness about who they are, whether their

578
00:35:58,845 --> 00:36:03,125
Speaker 4: parents understand it or not. So it's important for us,

579
00:36:03,765 --> 00:36:09,125
Speaker 4: particularly old the adults, to have humility and accepting that

580
00:36:09,445 --> 00:36:14,725
Speaker 4: we don't and can't know everything, and that young people

581
00:36:14,925 --> 00:36:19,485
Speaker 4: need space to figure out their lives on their own terms.

582
00:36:20,045 --> 00:36:24,725
Speaker 4: If we understand this, our support can be life saving.

583
00:36:29,805 --> 00:36:34,925
Speaker 5: The fact that trans healthcare is suicide provission is why

584
00:36:34,965 --> 00:36:40,925
Speaker 5: people want to take it away. That's the point, and

585
00:36:41,365 --> 00:36:45,965
Speaker 5: that's something that scares me, Like trans healthcare that has

586
00:36:46,005 --> 00:36:48,325
Speaker 5: saved my life countless times, Like I have.

587
00:36:49,885 --> 00:36:52,325
Speaker 3: Been chosen to stay alive because I'm on a distosterone.

588
00:36:52,405 --> 00:36:54,885
Speaker 3: We're chosen to stay alive because I'm getting support.

589
00:36:56,365 --> 00:36:58,725
Speaker 5: It's like you can't even calculate that, because it's like

590
00:36:58,965 --> 00:37:01,605
Speaker 5: there's little moments of every single day of your life

591
00:37:01,605 --> 00:37:02,165
Speaker 5: where you're like.

592
00:37:02,445 --> 00:37:04,165
Speaker 3: This is too hard, I can't keep going.

593
00:37:04,525 --> 00:37:06,125
Speaker 5: But then when you feel like you get a little

594
00:37:06,165 --> 00:37:09,285
Speaker 5: bit best support, it makes it just a little bit easier.

595
00:37:10,405 --> 00:37:13,565
Speaker 2: By automatically denying them that and saying that you know

596
00:37:13,605 --> 00:37:17,405
Speaker 2: your child better than they know themselves, you're setting them

597
00:37:17,485 --> 00:37:21,005
Speaker 2: up for not only resenting you, but resenting themselves even more.

598
00:37:21,365 --> 00:37:23,685
Speaker 2: And in a lot of cases, it comes down to

599
00:37:23,925 --> 00:37:28,245
Speaker 2: would you rather have a kid who like has this

600
00:37:28,365 --> 00:37:31,125
Speaker 2: going on with their identity even if you don't agree

601
00:37:31,125 --> 00:37:34,125
Speaker 2: with it for whatever reason, like would you rather have

602
00:37:34,165 --> 00:37:36,645
Speaker 2: a kid who is trans or a kid that is dead?

603
00:37:37,325 --> 00:37:39,605
Speaker 2: And that is the choice that you, as a parent

604
00:37:39,685 --> 00:37:40,125
Speaker 2: have to make.

605
00:37:44,685 --> 00:37:48,205
Speaker 4: Queer Chronicles as a production of School of Humans, The

606
00:37:48,365 --> 00:37:54,685
Speaker 4: Outspoken Podcast Network and iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host Raquel Willis.

607
00:37:55,405 --> 00:37:58,445
Speaker 4: You can find a list of resources in the show notes,

608
00:37:58,565 --> 00:38:03,605
Speaker 4: including trans Lifeline and the Trevor Project. This show was

609
00:38:03,605 --> 00:38:07,605
Speaker 4: written by Jordan Bailey at a Elese Perez, Aaron Edwards,

610
00:38:07,645 --> 00:38:12,445
Speaker 4: and Me. Our story editors are Aaron Edwards and Julia Furlan,

611
00:38:13,285 --> 00:38:18,965
Speaker 4: Produced by Jordan Bailey, Julia Farlan, and Edalis Perez. Our

612
00:38:19,005 --> 00:38:25,085
Speaker 4: senior producer is Amelia Brock, directed by ediis Perez, sound

613
00:38:25,085 --> 00:38:29,325
Speaker 4: design and mixed by m b al Raheem. Theme song

614
00:38:29,485 --> 00:38:35,165
Speaker 4: composed by Jesse Niswanger, casting by Jordan Bailey and Julia Furlan,

615
00:38:36,045 --> 00:38:40,365
Speaker 4: fact checking by Savannah Hugh Glee. Our production manager is

616
00:38:40,485 --> 00:38:45,405
Speaker 4: Daisy Church. Executive producers include Jay Brunson and Me from

617
00:38:45,445 --> 00:38:49,845
Speaker 4: The Outspoken Podcast Network, Michael Alder June and Noel Brown

618
00:38:49,925 --> 00:38:55,405
Speaker 4: from iHeart Podcasts, Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley

619
00:38:55,565 --> 00:39:00,205
Speaker 4: from School of Humans and The Cats Company. Special thanks

620
00:39:00,245 --> 00:39:04,325
Speaker 4: to Sky for joining this conversation. If you're enjoying the show,

621
00:39:04,525 --> 00:39:07,845
Speaker 4: please share it with friends and family, and don't forget

622
00:39:07,885 --> 00:39:12,085
Speaker 4: to rate and review in your favorite podcast app. Tune

623
00:39:12,125 --> 00:39:13,405
Speaker 4: in again next week