1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How how does a renowned 2 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: psychiatrist end up dead in Vegas and the trunk of 3 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: a BMW. Nope, it's not a movie script. It's not 4 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: Hangover Part three or four. It's real, our annwn psychiatrists 5 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: ends up dead in the trunk of a BMW in Vegas. 6 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Who is he to take 7 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: a Listen to what the doctor's girlfriend and tells me. 8 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: When did you learn that his body had been found 9 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: ten days after I had reported him missing? It was 10 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: that was such a scary time, in those ten days 11 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: of not knowing, not knowing should I you know, how 12 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: to how to do anything? You know, just that that 13 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: was scary. The scariest time, really, I think, just the fear, 14 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: you know, be coming home. And probably about by the 15 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: day before, about the eighth of the ninth day, I 16 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: began to realize to myself that he probably wasn't ever 17 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: coming home, you know, even though I kept hoping and hoping. 18 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: And then when they called me, you know and told me, 19 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: which was right before it broke on the news, it 20 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: was it was just it was devastating, even though I 21 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: kind of thought I had prepared myself to hear the 22 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: worst news. You are listening to the psychiatrist, the doctor 23 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: and the trunks long time love and of course in 24 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: typical police scenarios they long time love with a suspect 25 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: number one. But how does a renowned psychiatrist end up 26 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: dead in the trunk? Who is this guy? Listen? Well, 27 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: he was out going, He loved his practice, He loved 28 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, his patience, you know, doing everything for them. 29 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: Magic was his hobby and he learned that mainly to 30 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: do magic tricks to kind of engage the children because 31 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: he was a child psychiatrist nowadays, originally they were children. 32 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: Now nowadays it was a little bit more on the 33 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: adult side. He had started seeing them as children and 34 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: through you know, and continued following them into their adulthood. 35 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: That was rather one of when he turned sixty five, 36 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: he was seventy one. And when he had turned sixty five, 37 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: he was concerned, you know, worried about his patients that 38 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: if he retired they would be left with no one 39 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: or having to start over with a new doctor. And 40 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: when his idea of retirement was to cut his work 41 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: week down to four days and take Mondays off. So 42 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: how does a trip to Vegas fit into that four 43 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: day work week. That's what I'm trying to find out. 44 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: Where was she at the time for a long time love. 45 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: Doctor Thomas Bichard was somehow stuffed in a trunk dead, 46 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: unless he was killed in the trunk. We're learning a 47 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: lot about him that speaks volumes with me an all 48 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: star panel. Troy's Laton, high profile defense attorney joining us 49 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: out of La Just a hop, skip and a jump 50 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: from where this dead body was found at light day 51 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: where Slayton was at the time, and you can find 52 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: him at Troy Slayton. Doctor Jen Man, family therapist, marriage therapist, 53 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: host of Couples Therapy and Family Therapy on VH one, 54 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: The Doctor Jen Show on Sirius XM, and author of 55 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: The Relationship Fix. You can find her at doctor jen 56 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Kendall Crowns, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner for 57 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: Travis County, Texas. That's Austin and senior lecturer, University Texas, 58 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: and of course, forensic sciences. Chris Buyer's former police chief 59 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: John's Creek twenty five years as a police officer, now 60 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: PI and polygrapher at Chris Buyer's investigations in polygraphs dot com. 61 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: Alexis Terrescha crimalline dot com investigative reporter. Quick question to 62 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns, Doctor Crowns, this guy is a psychiatrist. 63 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: Now just fill me in. In order to be a psychiatrist, 64 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: isn't it true? You have to become a medical doctor, 65 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: go through underground four years, then what three or four 66 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: years of medical school, then intern and your chosen field 67 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: psychiatry for I guess three or four years after that? 68 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: How does it work? Yeah, that's correct, Nancy. You get 69 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: your undergraduate degree, you go to medical school, and then 70 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: once you graduate, then you choose your residency in psychiatry. 71 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: I do believe I do a one year internship in 72 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: internal medicine before they do, I think three years in psychiatry. 73 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: So four years of internship and how long is medical school? 74 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: Four years? Troy Slayton, did you hear that we go 75 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: three years to law school for one more year? We 76 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: could have been doctors. Boy, I should have done that. 77 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: Somebody told me that I would have been able to 78 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: make my mother proud. I know exactly. Oh yeah you 79 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: know what, Troy, You're right? How my mother begged me 80 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: not to go into criminal prosecution. Oh yeah, one more 81 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: year and of course brilliance, a degree in biology, and 82 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: a few other things which would have been needed. So 83 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: this is a psychiatrist that has spent his life in 84 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: child psychiatry. And it really speaks volumes in my mind 85 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: to doctor Jim Mann that he started in child psychiatry 86 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: and his patients loved him so much. The bulk of 87 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: his practice is them as they grew up, they stayed 88 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: with him. It's pretty amazing. And I have to tell you, 89 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: I remember when I first started out as a therapist. 90 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: I was working in a mental health clinic and every 91 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: other intern who came in would come in saying I 92 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: want to work with children, And within six months, every 93 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: one of them was like, I can't meet this because 94 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: it's particularly challenging. A lot of the time you're dealing 95 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: with difficult family systems and parents who don't want to change, 96 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: and you know, things that are just really challenging, rebellious kids. 97 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: So you know, this guy sounds like he was amazingly 98 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: patient and kind and really cared about his clients. Guys 99 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: were talking about doctor Thomas Bouchard, who ends up after 100 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: all these years of Pratt saying dead in the trunk 101 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: of a BMW. Alexis trust chut Crime Online dot com 102 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: investigative reporter also with lead Stories dot Com. Alexis, tell 103 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: me about the discovery of him and the trunk of 104 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: a BMW. How long had he been here? Been in 105 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: the trunk? And I'll just also like to find out 106 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: from Chris Buyers how ye forensically process a car trunk. 107 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: But first to you, Alexis, So, he had been missing 108 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: for about ten days and not related as car was 109 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: found abandoned on the side of the road in Las Vegas, 110 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: in a neighborhood, and it was very clear when you 111 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: looked inside the car that something had happened. Why would 112 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: you look in the car? If I see a car 113 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: by the side of the street, I don't get out 114 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: of my car and go try to look in the trunk. 115 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: I believe the police were called because it had been 116 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: abandoned for so many days. Okay, So why didn't they 117 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: just put a boot on it in a yellow ticket? Well, 118 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: I think when you see blood in a car, it 119 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: makes you think something happened. They saw blood on the interior, right, Yes, 120 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: there wasn't. Yes, there was blood in the interior of 121 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: the Alexis Ros, You're giving me a renewed interest for 122 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: playing twenty questions. So the police get called because there's 123 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: an abandoned BMW. The police get there and in plane view, 124 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: and I am emphasizing those words because I know Troy 125 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: Slaton is listening. In the veteran defense attorney, plane view 126 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: has a legal meaning. For instance, if a cop goes 127 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: by your car, parks on the street, and in plane 128 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: view he sees a line of coke on the dash, 129 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: oh yeah, he's she can totally get in your car 130 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: and impound it and get the evidence. Because they see 131 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: evidence of a crime, they don't need a search warrant. 132 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: It is in plane view. Generally, whatever a ordinary citizen 133 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: and civilian can do, a cop can do without a warrant. 134 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: Agree or disagree, choice light I And the reason why 135 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: this is so important is because if the police gather 136 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: evidence illegally, then it's and all the evidence that flows 137 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: from that would be fruit of the poisonous tree, and 138 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: that evidence and everything that flowed from it could be 139 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: excluded from any criminal trial that follows. Right. For instance, 140 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: I'd like to give an example when I'm speaking with YOURRS. 141 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: If CoP's breaking a home without a warrant and it's 142 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: not an emergency extent circumstances. And there they find evidence 143 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: of another crime. Let's just say they find cocaine with 144 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: a delivery address. They go to that location and find 145 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: a drug lord. No, you can't arrest a drug lord 146 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: because the original evidence is fruit from the poisonous tree, 147 00:09:54,480 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: an illegal search. He's correct again Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 148 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 1: So cops see Alexis Terres chuck blood in the BMW. 149 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: That leads them legally to open the car trunk. And 150 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: when they opened the car trunk what alexis well, and 151 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: they could they could see the blood. There's also been 152 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: a rock thrown through the window of the car as 153 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: it was on the side of the road, and so 154 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: that also is suspicious as well, and thrown into the car, 155 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: not thrown out um. And in the trunk they find 156 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: the body of doctor Burchard to you, doctor Kennel, Crown's 157 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: Jeff Chief Medical exam or Travis County. That's a fine 158 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: kettle of fish. You've got a dead body in the 159 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: trunk that's been in there in Vegas heat for a day, 160 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: days and days. What do you do? So the body's 161 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: probably going to be markedly decomposed, bloating with green discoloration 162 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: and skin. Oh well, white, white, white, white, white, white, white. 163 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: What you just reeled it all off so quickly. What 164 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 1: did you say the first thing? You say, in the 165 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: heat in the trunk, it's going to make the body decomposed. 166 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: You're going to decompose no matter what. But in the heat, 167 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: you're going to decompose more rapidly. So you said markedly 168 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: decomposed or marginally decomposed, markedly market Then I heard something 169 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: about either green or purple. Yeah, the body will turn 170 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: kind of a greaming coloration, the skin will start slipping off. 171 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: Then it will start bloating from the decomposition gases. So 172 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,599 Speaker 1: the body does that happen? And then what does the 173 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: body bloat? Because you have bacteria in your body right now, 174 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: it's sitting in there kind of kept in check by 175 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: your body. But once you die, the bacteria no wonder 176 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: has the restraint put on it, and then it begins 177 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: breaking you down. And when it's breaking you down, it 178 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: starts forming gas. And the gas that form results in 179 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: the bloating of the body. You know how I always 180 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: explain it to a jury, why a body bloated. I 181 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: would use a piece of fruit, like a banana or 182 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: an apple. When it starts to quote go bad, you 183 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: smell it and it starts looking different, it turns the color. Well, 184 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: if that's sounding inside your body, those gases and the 185 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: same ones that make a banana smell are gathering inside 186 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: your body with nowhere to go, so your body bloats. 187 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: That's a very rudimentary explanation, but that's how I can 188 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: understand it. Do you think in just ten days after 189 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: kennel cry that there can be an ID of the body, 190 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: or because it's been in the trunk? Is it so 191 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: as you say, markedly decomposed, you can't make an ID. Yeah, 192 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: so it would be difficult to do a visual idea 193 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 1: at that point. He would probably have to rely on 194 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: fingerprints and hope that there was fingerprints available to run 195 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: them against, or then go with dental records or DNA 196 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: and if there's a presumptive ID to make the identification 197 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 1: to Chris Buyer's for em Police Chevy John's Creek at 198 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: Chris Buyer's Investigations at polygraph dot com. Have you ever 199 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,079 Speaker 1: seen a case like this body in a trunk? I 200 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: absolutely have and it's as bad in this Georgia heat 201 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: as it is up there as well. Had one there 202 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: was in a trunk several days, and you know, besides 203 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: the point of view, you can smell that after several days. 204 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: I've been to houses an apartment here in Atlanta, and 205 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: a body's been inside long enough you could smell it 206 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: from outside the door. How far away can you smell it? 207 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: I can guarantee if you're standing the trunk of the cars, 208 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: you can smell it after ten days, because again I've 209 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: smelled it in front doors and found bodies and living rooms, 210 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: in bedrooms decomposed. So and if the smell, you'll never forget. 211 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: I was just gonna say that because people have asked me, 212 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: how do you know you're smelling a dead body? And 213 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: I always say, you know what. I don't know, but 214 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: you know it's kind of like, or at least from me, 215 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: when you see a snake on the side of the street, 216 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: you immediately know get away from that. How do you know? 217 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, but you know I guess evolutionary instinct. 218 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: Alexa's terrest check. I'm a little bit embarrassed for you 219 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: because you did not mention the stinch that must have 220 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: been coming out of that trunk. Any cop and his 221 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: right mine would open it up absolutely, and they you know, 222 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: they had seen the rocks through the window bandon on 223 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: the desert. This is not something where it was. Maybe 224 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: they didn't think it was a car accident, you know. 225 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: And the people had gotten in another car and ridden 226 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: away and just run and come back later for their car. 227 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: So while all this is happening, a renowned child psychiatrist 228 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: stuffed in the trunk of a BMW back home, the 229 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: long time love is waiting for doctor Rochard to show up. 230 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. Well, he was scheduled. He 231 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: flew there on Friday, March first, and he was scheduled 232 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: to return befourse the following Monday. And I first noticed 233 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: that there was something wrong on Sunday morning. I spoke 234 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: with him Friday, and we texted on Saturday, and I 235 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: began to feel that there was something wrong on Sunday. 236 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: But I had received a couple of texts in the 237 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: afternoon that I just knew were not him. You know, 238 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: She's so right. Everybody has a unique style of writing 239 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: a text. For instance, I would never write a long, 240 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: verbet text. I try to make it as short and 241 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: brief as possible, even cutting letters out of words to him, 242 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: and to make it quick. Well, she knew immediately this 243 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: was not his style of writing. Listen to what Judy 244 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: tells me. The vocabulary wasn't his vocabulary. It was more 245 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: of an ed you came to it. Just it just 246 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: wasn't him. I could just tell it wasn't him talking 247 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: or texting me. And I said, so, I said, you know, 248 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: all the time, I don't believe this is you. You 249 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: need to call me. And then after that the phone did. 250 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: And early Sunday morning that same day, I woke up 251 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: very early, about five or so in the morning, just 252 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: thirty five, just feeling something was really wrong, you know, 253 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: just kind of scared, more and more scared than anything, 254 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: and than those texts in the afternoon. It really really 255 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: raised some flags, and I was worried. I didn't hear 256 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: from him at all, and I checked, and I took checking. 257 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: He had not checked in for his flight. Really, you know, 258 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: it's interesting. It's called routine evidence. And again I don't 259 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: mean that it's run of the meal or typical or 260 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: stereotypical evidence, but evidence of someone's routine. I like to 261 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: call it behavioral evidence Troice Layton. Of course, you, as 262 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: an expert defense attorney, can't slice all sorts of holes 263 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: in this. But when someone has a routine, For instance, 264 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: I get up every morning, I packed the children's snacks, 265 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: I loaded the car to take them to school, I 266 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: get my mon breakfast ready, I start looking at crimes 267 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: all across the country, and then I enjoy cleaning out 268 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: the guinea pig cage. That is a routine that has 269 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: strictly followed. If I were to suddenly decide, you know, 270 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the hair salon, or I'm 271 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: going to go to an early morning eatery and not 272 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: take my children to school this morning, that would be 273 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: contrary to a routine, right it would, and that would 274 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: be admissible. Evidence of someone's routine or habit is admissible 275 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: in order to show their conformity therewith and any deviation 276 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: from that could be important evidence for a jury. Of course, 277 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: a defense a journey like yourself can slice it up 278 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: like a Thanksgiving turkey, because just because you have routine 279 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're always going to follow it. Absolutely and 280 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: certainly that would be important and compelling evidence for a jury, 281 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: and someone can certainly argue that there is no textbook 282 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: on the way that tells you, I was just waiting 283 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: for you to pull that out of the moth balls. 284 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: There's no text if there is no textbook for the 285 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 1: way that somebody is supposed to act, especially when somebody 286 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: is paying for somebody else to to have a luxury 287 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: apartment for somebody that they're not married to. Time stories 288 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace Guys the girlfriend the Longtime Love Judy. 289 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: She knows in her heart something's wrong, she can't identify it. 290 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: Listen to The Long Time Loved Earl Day, I still 291 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: hadn't hurt from him, and his flight was due I 292 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: think around one forty, and so I decided to go 293 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: to the airport to meet the plane. He had his card, 294 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: you know, in the long term parking lot there, but 295 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: I still I went with my son to meet the plane. 296 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: I I just felt something was wrong and I needed to, 297 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: you know, check, And I watched every single person come 298 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: off the plane and it wasn't him. And by this 299 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: time I'm very, very concerned, and I speak with the 300 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: gate agent and they checked and he had never checked 301 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: in for his flight, and he wasn't on the flight, 302 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: and then I knew something was, you know, just horrible. 303 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: I going to Aunt to ask did he explain why 304 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: he was going to Vegas for three days? Listen? Well, 305 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: some of it I don't really want to say, you know, 306 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: until the trial and everything that some of it was 307 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: the business business? What kind of business? Lands you dead? 308 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: And the trunk of a BMW? I mean, Dactor jen Man, 309 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm all for trust. In fact, my husband's out of 310 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: town right now. He had to go on a business 311 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: trip for guess what three days? Oh, you know what. 312 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: It just keeps going through my head, the three hour 313 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: tour from Gilligan's Island. Why is there was three Something 314 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: that's something for me to think about in all my 315 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: spare time. So, doctor jen Man, when do you start 316 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: checking out what your husband's doing and when do you 317 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: decide not to worry about it? Well, I think when 318 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: your gut instinct says, oh, something's wrong. I'm a big 319 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: believer in listening to the gut instinct. And you know, 320 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: I'm sure we've all read Gavin de Becker's book The 321 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: Gift of Sphere, where he talking about that gut instinct 322 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: tends to be based on a thousand different things that 323 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: our unconscious mind picked up that was actually concrete evidence 324 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: that we haven't fully made sense of. And I think 325 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: that when your gut goes something doesn't feel right, that's 326 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: when you start checking in, because our guts tend to 327 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: be pretty on target when we listen. And Jim, and 328 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: did I ever tell you about the time I read 329 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: my husband's email just for the fun of it. I 330 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: thought I was going to die so boring? Oh cool? 331 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: Never again? It was awful. One business email after the next. Oh, 332 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: it's like reading a tax audit. Long story short, What 333 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: business does this guy, a psychiatrist have in Vegas? To you? 334 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: Alexas Terreschuk? Wasn't his practice? Wasn't it in California? In 335 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: practice was in California? He had been to Vegas several 336 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 1: times for large medical conferences. Did you say conferences? Now? 337 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: Right there? The hair on the back of my neck 338 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: just goes up, because isn't it true? Chris Buyers, your 339 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: former police chief, twenty five years on the force. Now 340 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: you're a PI and I bet you do a lot 341 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: of divorces. How often have you heard he went to 342 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: a conference? Please? Oh, yes, a lot of conferences. The 343 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: conference starts lots of problems, for sure, a lot of conferences. 344 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: Sometimes there's not even really a conference. That's why you 345 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: have Google ladies to look up and find out if 346 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: there's a conference. So sometimes he goes for conferences, but 347 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: we find out a lot more was going on in Vegas. 348 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: Take a listen. He had helped a lot of women, 349 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, men and women with 350 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: you know, they were down on their lock or you know, 351 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: he would help them to pay their rent or their 352 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: car payments, or get the medicine that they needed, you know, 353 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: rather than going through and I told him, you know, 354 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: lots of times he probably would be better off, you know, 355 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: going through a charity bit. Now he would directly help 356 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: them make sure that, you know, they got what they needed. 357 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: So hold on just a moment, Alexis terres Chuck, He's 358 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: not just going to Vegas for a medical conferences. I'm 359 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: so glad you tell me about the medical conferences. What 360 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: do you mean by quote helping a lot of women, 361 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: such as with car payments or rent sounds like a 362 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: honey trap. I would usually use the word sugar daddy. 363 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: In this case. This would be a wealthy older man 364 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: taking care of younger women, beautiful younger women, and that 365 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: seemed to be the case here. He was paying for 366 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: multiple women and she did. His fiance and long term 367 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: partner said that there were men too, but that he 368 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: was very, very generous with his money. He had plenty 369 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: of money. He'd worked at the doctor for forty years 370 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: in California, was very wealthy and was very generous with 371 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 1: things that he paid for other people. Usually that's called 372 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: a sugar daddy. You know. Troice Lytton, veteran criminal defense 373 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: attorney joining me out of LA. Do you remember the 374 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: time in your career that you totally realize you were jaded? 375 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 1: Because when I hear of this renowned psychiatrist helping beautiful, young, 376 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: glamorous playboy playmates, I immediately think the worst. Well, he 377 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: certainly you can't accuse him of not being a sophisticated 378 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: individual where he didn't know what he was doing. In fact, 379 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: statements from his long time partner, Miss Earp, say that 380 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: when she confronted him with the over three hundred thousand 381 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: dollars that he had spent over the years, Yeah, I 382 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: choked on that go ahead that he said he knew 383 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: what he was doing and he could afford it. So 384 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: when I get that figure right, three hundred thousand dollars, 385 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars. And so, Nancy, this was not 386 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: a person who didn't know what he was doing, and 387 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: he was obviously. I don't know that I would call 388 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: that sophisticated just because you've got an MD at the 389 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: end of your name. If you're supporting women in Vegas 390 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: to the tuna three hundred thousand dollars, as a matter 391 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: of fact, I don't think that's smart at all, doctor 392 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: gin Man. I have a friend, Well, let me say, 393 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: an acquaintance has a wonderful marriage, leaves the wife because 394 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: he falls in love with a stripper who then uses 395 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: him to pay her children's private school, and then when 396 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: they all graduate, she dumps him. By this time, he's 397 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: lost his marriage, he's lost his stockbroker trader certificate, he's 398 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: gone bankrupt, and he's living in the basement of a 399 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: college fraternity brother. When I believe and ever learn, yeah, 400 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: I see things like this all the time. You know, 401 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: one of the things good? Which wrong with you? People? 402 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, Chris Buyers a choice Layton, Do you think 403 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: a stripper is in love with you never mind. No, 404 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: I don't think they stripper is in love with me personally. 405 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: I've never been to a strip club. My wife for 406 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: twenty five years. Yeah, John, bless you, and I've only 407 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: been to strip clubs um with a subpoena in my 408 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: hand looking for somebody. And I also went in the 409 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: daylight hours and they're really nasty with the lights on. 410 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: But that's a whole nother cannon worms. What is wrong 411 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: with these people? Jim Man, No wants by the way, 412 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: what Crowns what I said? No one wants to get 413 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: in potago. I mean, you know, skin surface infections, My goodness. 414 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: Those strip clubs, I'm sure are very unclean. Who wants 415 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: to go in there. Now here's a true expert. He 416 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: can work in a skin condition into a stripper on 417 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: a pole. Okay, go ahead, jin Man, thank you, doctor Crowns. 418 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: Jen what is wrong with these men? Well? I think 419 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: that you know, I remember a friend who kind of 420 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: like you were saying, an acquaintance that I that I 421 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,239 Speaker 1: once knew, who was having an affair with a much 422 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: younger woman. And what he kind of said was, when 423 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 1: I see myself reflected in this young, much younger woman's eyes. 424 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: I feel young, and I think that a lot of 425 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,719 Speaker 1: these men who make choices like their are guys who 426 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: are feeling the clock ticking. They're feeling they're getting older, 427 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: They're feeling afraid that they're going to be dying soon. 428 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: They're feeling like they've lost the dying. I feel like 429 00:28:50,920 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to look right now Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 430 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: How is this going all wrong? Alexis Tourez Chuck is 431 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: one of the women that he was helping named Kelsey Turner. Yes, 432 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: and guys, Kelsey Turner, is she or is she not? 433 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: A playboy playmate? Alexis? She has a playboy model. There's 434 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: a little bit of a difference between the two. Potato 435 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: and I say potato. So you're telling me there's a 436 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: difference between a playboy playmate and a playboy model. Or 437 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: guess what they don't teach that at law school. Take 438 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut seventeen. This is a friend 439 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: of Kelsey Turners named Logan Kennison speaking to our friends 440 00:29:53,160 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: at Access Hollywood. Would you say Tom Brushard was Kelsey's 441 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: sugar daddy. I told him, I said, you know, like 442 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: thinking might be taking advantage and he said, well, that's okay, 443 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: I can afford it, but none of them life this 444 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: Kelsey Turner, Kelsey Turner, it's my understanding, less terres Chuck. 445 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: They renowned psychiatrist is paying not only for an apartment 446 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: but at home for her and Selena's gip. He was 447 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: and he had given her money cash over the years, 448 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: not just a little amount like hundreds of thousands of 449 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: dollars just to her. Boy, that is some friend. Take 450 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut ten. This is our friends 451 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: at k SBW. Kelsey Turner, no stranger to posing for 452 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: the camera, now posing for her criminal mug shot. Accused 453 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: of brutally beating a man who Peter rent and showered 454 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: her with money about three hundred thousand that I know about, 455 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: and possibly more, possibly more. Well, take a listen to 456 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: ks n VNS three Vegas our cut fourteen. The suspect 457 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: is twenty five year old Kelsey Turner was listed as 458 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: a public figure on Instagram, a model and actress with 459 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: more than one hundred thousand followers. What is her relationship 460 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: with the victim? There is a relationship. At this point, 461 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: the investigation is extremely active and ongoing, so I'm not 462 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: going to get into any specifics regarding them. A man 463 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: who knew the doctor tells the NBC station in Monterey, 464 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: Burchard was paying the rent on this home in California 465 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: where Turner, her kids, and her mom once lived, and 466 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: was giving them cash and he were from two to 467 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,239 Speaker 1: four thousand a week easily. He told me. He met 468 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: Kelsey on the website and met up with her, and 469 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: they talked, and they went and had dinner a few times, 470 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: he says. Eventually Turner and her family were a did 471 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: when Burchard stopped paying rent. She moved to Las Vegas, 472 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: and Burchard went to check on her. Now Turners in 473 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: jail accused of killing him. So he's not only paying 474 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,959 Speaker 1: for her house in Selena's her apartment, but for her 475 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: whole family to live there. We'll take a listen to 476 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: what we learn from KSBWR cut thirteen. Let neighbors say 477 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: the actual incident occurred at a residence in the Las 478 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: Vegas Valley, and then the body was found out by 479 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: the lake. That home we initially suspected was on Puritan 480 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: Avenue in Las Vegas. That's based on this arrest record 481 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: from earlier this year. Then boyfriend arrested for domestic violence. 482 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: The victim Turner, with her address listed. I went to 483 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: that home Monday, neighbors confirming with me. Police have been 484 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: to the home several times in the last month, including 485 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: a CSI unit as recent as this past weekend. The 486 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: home also matches the neighborhood in Turner's arrest warrant. According 487 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: to that warn't. Las Vegas police say inside the home 488 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: they found Burchard's keys, his vest, and blue latex gloves 489 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: like these I found in the garbage can outside of 490 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: the home. Police also found cleaning supplies, blood, a broken 491 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: door with blood on it, and towels the same towels 492 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: that matched the ones in the car with Burchard Turner's 493 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: two door BMW. There was blood on the passenger seat, 494 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: the back seat, and in the trunk. That's where Brochard 495 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: was found with wounds that left a unique pattern on him. 496 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: So what do you do with that? Royce Lytton, veteran 497 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: trial lawyer. Matching towels, isn't that quiet? The coincidence the 498 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: towels found in the BMW with the dead body and 499 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: all the blood matched the towels in the home. I 500 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: would look at who else had access to the home. 501 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: If I'm defending this playboy model and her boyfriend, I 502 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: would want to also know who else was there, And 503 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: we certainly know that she had roommates in that Las 504 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: Vegas home. Here incredible, weren't the only really are incredible? Next, 505 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna blame the mailman that delivers the mail. I 506 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: thought you were going to say, hey, anybody could buy 507 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: those towels at Macy's. There's absolutely no connection whatsoever. You know, 508 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: Chris Buyers for empolice Chief John's Creek. Isn't it amazing 509 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: how after someone is found dead in another location, someone 510 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,240 Speaker 1: else turns into a neat nick at home. All the bleach, 511 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: the cleaning supplies, the latex gloves. It's amazing, isn't it. 512 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 1: It just inspires you to what clean your bathroom and 513 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: buy any shower curtain? Yeah? Absolutely, it is funny how 514 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: that happens. And you know, one of the things that 515 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 1: they just said in that last clip, that was Turner's 516 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: car he was found in. I don't believe we had 517 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: touched on that before, so led right back to that 518 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: house and for it to be cleaned up so nicely, 519 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: that does raise some serious questions. Kelsey Turner, playboy playmate 520 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: or as Alexis stresscheck says playboy model, Well the boyfriend 521 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:59,280 Speaker 1: that you're hearing Chief Chris Buyers referred to John Logan 522 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: Kennison decided to speak out. Take a list to Our 523 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: Cut nineteen and our friends at Access Hollywood. When they 524 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: searched the house, they found blood and cleaning supplies. What 525 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 1: do you think happened? According to Penia, Turner and Kennison 526 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: instructed her to clean the house while Thomas waited in 527 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: Turner's car hoping to be taken to the hospital. She 528 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: claims it was the last time she saw Thomas alive. 529 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: Kania subsequently played guilty to accessory to murder to Alexas Rushchuk. 530 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: Who is Pina? She is the roommate. She's a roommate 531 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: who also lived in the house with Kelsey and her boyfriend. 532 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: So Kelsey Turner and boyfriend. I wonder how the psychiatrist 533 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: felt about that? The boyfriend John Logan Kennison. They come 534 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: home with a lot of cleaning supplies and say clean 535 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: up pronto, and apparently she does well. Take a list 536 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 1: to Our Cut eighteen. This is Logan Kennison again, right 537 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 1: or wrong? Speaking to Access Hollywood. Can you just walk 538 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 1: me through the dea is as you remember it. Kennison 539 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: claims that at some point during the gathering, an altercation 540 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: occurred between the couple's roommate, Diana Penya and Thomas. Did 541 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: you leave in Kelsey's car? How do you think that 542 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: Tom's good body ended up in the trunk of Kelsey's car. 543 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: You're saying Diana killed doctor Brusher? Sounds like Troy Slayton. 544 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: They took a page out of your book. Who's left standing? 545 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: The roommate blame her, But she took a cheap deal 546 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 1: as successory. So where does that leave the playboy playmate 547 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: and the lover pointing the finger at her? She obviously 548 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: took a deal in order to save her own skin. 549 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,479 Speaker 1: So I would argue that she can't be trusted. She can't, 550 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: she can't. She pled guilty. Trust freeboy playmate sleeping with 551 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: a with a psychiatrist with a boyfriend into We have 552 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: somebody who pled guilty to accessory to murder and exchange 553 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: your truthful testimony in exchange for a sweetheart deal. You 554 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: know I'm not in her skin? Can correct me? Tell 555 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: me again? Troice Layton whose car was he found in? 556 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: He was found in the Playboy Playmates a pay model. 557 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: I bet that her to spit it out, didn't it? Um? 558 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: And how was sleeping somebody? Nancy? If I wanted to 559 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: frame somebody, where would I want to put some Only 560 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: does the roommate, with no motive at all, hide the 561 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: dead body? Oh, she now thinks of framing her roommate. Okay, 562 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: hold on, let me think this thing through. So if 563 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: the roommate did it, why didn't Kelsey turn and report 564 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: it to nine on one. Thank, We're scared? Scared? Scared? Yes, Okay, 565 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: Sarah fitting together? So Alexis terres shut. What's the evidence 566 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: against the playboy playmate? Excuse me? Model? Well, the evidence 567 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,439 Speaker 1: is is that the roommate was there in the house, 568 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: and she said that doctor Burchard was Actually she didn't 569 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: see it happened, but he was somehow hit in the 570 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: head and he was bleeding at their house, and so 571 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 1: she said, and he said he needed to go to 572 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: the doctor. And so she saw him get in the car, 573 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,800 Speaker 1: and she saw Kelsey and her boyfriend Logan get in 574 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: the car, and that was the last time that she 575 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: saw the doctor alive. Quick couple of questions. Alexis TERRESTI 576 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 1: think of this as a lightning round. Who was the 577 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,280 Speaker 1: doctor sleeping with Kelsey? Kelsey Turner? He was paying for Kelsey, 578 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: and he was paying for her house and was paying 579 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: for a car. I don't know that he was necessarily okay, 580 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: So he was paying for her house Austin Selenas and 581 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: her apartment and her BMW car payment, but yet not 582 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:10,479 Speaker 1: sleeping with her okay? And who had he just cut 583 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,879 Speaker 1: off financially? Kelsey Kelsey? Are you on a first name 584 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: basis now? Yes? Kelsey Turner Turner playboy model? And who 585 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,760 Speaker 1: went and bought the cleaning supplies? Turner and the boyfriend 586 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: bought the cleaning flies. They brought them home, and they 587 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 1: asked the roommate to clean up the place. I believe 588 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,240 Speaker 1: it's how it happened. So they go by the cleaning 589 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: supplies to clean up the blood he's found in her car, 590 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: and the victim had just cut her off of a 591 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars pay day. We wait as justice 592 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: unfals Nancy Grace crime story signing off Goodbye friend