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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to Work in Progress,

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Speaker 1: where I talked to people who inspire me about how

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Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think

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Speaker 1: they're still going today. I'm work in progress. I am

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Speaker 1: honored to share the fascinating and incredibly timely conversation that

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Speaker 1: I had the man who offers invaluable insight into our military,

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Speaker 1: our democracy, leadership, and so much more. Mr. Guy Snodgrass

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Speaker 1: Commander Snodgrass is a retired Navy f A eight teen

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Speaker 1: fighter pilot and a top gun graduate and instructor who

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Speaker 1: served as the U. S. Navy and Marine Corps expert

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Speaker 1: in air to air combat and tactics development. Commander Snodgrass

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Speaker 1: also served as communications director and chief speech writer for

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Speaker 1: former Secretary of Defense Jim Maddie, Yes, the Jim Maddest

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Speaker 1: who worked in the Trump White House. Commander's not Grass

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Speaker 1: is also the founder and CEO of Defense Analytics, a

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Speaker 1: national security and foreign policy strategic advisory firm specializing in

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Speaker 1: strategy development, government policy, and technology adoption. Widely recognized as

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Speaker 1: an influential national security and foreign policy expert, Guy has

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Speaker 1: appeared on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC and is a regular

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Speaker 1: contributor to publications like The Washington Post, Politico, Fox Business, CNN,

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Speaker 1: and USA Today, in addition to having written and published

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Speaker 1: two incredibly successful books, Holding the Line Inside Trump's Pentagon

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Speaker 1: with Secretary Maddie in twenty nineteen and Top Guns Top

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Speaker 1: ten Leadership Lessons from the Cockpit in Commander Snot Grass

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Speaker 1: was kind enough to not only sit down and chat

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Speaker 1: with me several months ago, but he joined me for

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Speaker 1: a second time just to few weeks ago to share

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Speaker 1: his incredibly valuable insight on the current state of our

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Speaker 1: nation and the upcoming election, and how his opinions have

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Speaker 1: developed over the course of the year since we first spoke.

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Speaker 1: It's really important to me to provide you guys with

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Speaker 1: the most up to date and relevant conversations, which is

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Speaker 1: why I asked Guy to sit down with me for

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Speaker 1: a second time. Today. We've combined both of these conversations

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Speaker 1: into one episode for you, where myself and Guy discussed

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Speaker 1: everything from his career in the Navy as a fighter

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Speaker 1: pilot and top gun instructor, to his experience as chief

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Speaker 1: speechwriter for Jim Matice, to his thoughts on our current administration,

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Speaker 1: national security, the future of democracy itself, and of course

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Speaker 1: the upcoming election. Enjoy. Thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the first thing I should tell you

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Speaker 1: is that my granddad was a navy man. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: good old Tom back in the day. I've still got

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Speaker 1: his first set of tags, so pretty cool. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for your service, and again, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for being here today. Yeah. Well, thanks

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Speaker 1: for paying your taxes and letting me do it for

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Speaker 1: you know, twenty years. Yeah, happily. We obviously have so

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Speaker 1: many current affairs to get into, but I would first

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Speaker 1: like to go back and and kind of personalize you,

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Speaker 1: you know, for the audience. I think so many people

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Speaker 1: that I get to interview are are known for what

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Speaker 1: they're doing in the world right now. And I always

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Speaker 1: like to know where you came from. I know that

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Speaker 1: you grew up in Texas, right, that's right. What part

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Speaker 1: of Texas did you grow up in? Sure? So, I

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Speaker 1: grew up in Dallas Fort Worth area and North Texas

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Speaker 1: and you know, great childhood, right, So, I had a

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Speaker 1: great family, great church community, and um, I think that's

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Speaker 1: you know, when you think, when you look back, there's

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Speaker 1: always these major milestones in your life that puts you

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Speaker 1: on a path, and so that opportunity too, Like I said,

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Speaker 1: have a strong church family to have. I was a

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Speaker 1: boy Scout of all things, right, so I was one

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Speaker 1: of these rule following kids. But that exposed me to

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Speaker 1: a lot of what was outside of Dallas Fort Worth,

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Speaker 1: and that's where I first had my passion for flying. Actually,

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Speaker 1: and how did that happen? How did flying come up? Sure?

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Speaker 1: So no one in my family was a pilot, but

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Speaker 1: like I mentioned, when I was a we had a

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Speaker 1: Boy Scout troop and every year to help raise funds

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Speaker 1: for camping or for trips we wanted to take to

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Speaker 1: other states, we would go to the local air shows

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Speaker 1: and while we were there, we would actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: get to watch the pilots who are performing. And every

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Speaker 1: single time they had either the Blue Angels, which is

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Speaker 1: the Navy flight demonstration team, or they would have the

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Speaker 1: Thunderbirds come over, and so getting a chance to watch them,

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Speaker 1: that's what really instilled the love of flight and the

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Speaker 1: desire to want to pursue that as I got older.

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Speaker 1: That's so cool. What I guess, besides flying, what sorts

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Speaker 1: of things were you interested in as a kid? You know,

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I was a huge nerd uh. So

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Speaker 1: I was really into electronics. My dad was really cool.

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Speaker 1: He was an attorney, but he had a love of

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Speaker 1: history and he also had like a little itch for

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Speaker 1: computers electronics. So I'm forty three. So when you think

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Speaker 1: back to that time frame, this is dial up time.

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Speaker 1: You know, you had a modem connected, a well, instant messenger,

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Speaker 1: those kinds of things. In fact, it was actually just

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Speaker 1: before that, and Dallas is a big city and they

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Speaker 1: would have every three weeks they would have what's called

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Speaker 1: a computer trade show, and it's basically where they sold

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Speaker 1: parts for computers, and so you could go and pick

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Speaker 1: out the motherboard or you could pick out the hard drive.

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Speaker 1: And so we would go and with as little money

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Speaker 1: as possible, we would collect all these different pieces and

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Speaker 1: parts and he'd say, go to town, you know. And

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Speaker 1: so I would teach myself how to build the computer,

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Speaker 1: and then you build it up and start learning how

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Speaker 1: to program and stuff. So I was really into those

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Speaker 1: kinds of things when I was a kid. So I

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Speaker 1: loved computers. I love reading, and then of course some

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Speaker 1: of the sports with school as well. That's so cool.

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Speaker 1: When did you decide that you wanted to go to

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Speaker 1: the Naval Academy. Was that early in your childhood or

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Speaker 1: were you a teenager by then? You know, I was,

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Speaker 1: like I was a teenager. So I'd always thought that

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Speaker 1: flying would be great, but I didn't necessarily think much

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Speaker 1: about it. And I came from a family that was

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Speaker 1: had a lot of background in law. My dad was

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Speaker 1: an attorney. My uncle was a court reporter right in

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Speaker 1: the courthouse, so he would record all the proceedings. My

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Speaker 1: great uncle had been a judge, and so I think

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Speaker 1: I just naturally assumed that one day i'd probably go

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Speaker 1: to law school, and following my dad's footsteps, and that

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Speaker 1: kind of itch to want to pursue flying stayed with me,

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Speaker 1: and I was always kind of drawn to the military,

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Speaker 1: and so my grades were so so. But as I

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Speaker 1: got towards the tail end of high school and I

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Speaker 1: realized that was that was my new dream. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to go to the one of the service academies. Right.

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Speaker 1: So you've got West Point in New York, You've got

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Speaker 1: the Naval Academy in Maryland, and then you have the

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Speaker 1: Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, and you also have

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Speaker 1: the Coast Guard Academy in Connecticut. I knew I wanted

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Speaker 1: to go to one of them, and so I turned

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Speaker 1: the grades around and actually started in good grades, earned

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Speaker 1: my Eagle Scout in the Boy Scouts of America. And

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Speaker 1: so those types of things were the only reason, frankly,

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Speaker 1: that I was accepted into the Naval Academy, because otherwise

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Speaker 1: there's no way they would have taken a second look

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Speaker 1: at me. Why do you think that, well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a high bar. I mean, it really is.

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Speaker 1: We had sixty high school seniors from around the area

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Speaker 1: who were competing to go to the Naval Academy in

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Speaker 1: this case, and you could tell it's super competitive. I mean,

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Speaker 1: some were valedictorians or salutatorians, others were stars on the

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Speaker 1: football team. And I was definitely not that individual. I

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Speaker 1: mean I played a cross or I ran across country

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Speaker 1: and track, had played some soccer, but I was not

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Speaker 1: a standout athlete, and I was also not necessarily a

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Speaker 1: standout in academics. I think they just liked the fact

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Speaker 1: that I demonstrated that I could get great grades when

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Speaker 1: I worked hard. And the thing that really sold the team.

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Speaker 1: They had a board who did all the interviews. So

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Speaker 1: what sold them was my time as an Eagle scout.

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Speaker 1: The fact that I had taken a group of fifteen,

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Speaker 1: you know, kids like myself to a high adventure camp

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Speaker 1: called Filmont in New Mexico, and for two weeks I

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Speaker 1: was a one in charge and had led them through

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Speaker 1: and could could discuss with them what it meant to

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Speaker 1: be a leader and things that I was passionate about.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's what swayed them into my camp.

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Speaker 1: That's very cool. One of my fondest memories from my

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Speaker 1: junior high in high school career. I started going to

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Speaker 1: a summer camp in northern California in the mountains when

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Speaker 1: I was nine, and I eventually became a junior counselor

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Speaker 1: and then a camp counselor, and that was like, that

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Speaker 1: was such a shaping experience for me in what sort

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Speaker 1: of community leadership and service looks like. So I can

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Speaker 1: only imagine kind of having taken it to the next

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Speaker 1: level the way that you did. That's very cool. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's the same, right. I think those are

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Speaker 1: the types of It's funny when you're on the outside

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Speaker 1: looking in, you think you know what an organization wants,

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Speaker 1: what they want to attract, and so I thought by

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Speaker 1: the standard metric that I would not be someone the

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Speaker 1: academy would necessarily want. I was good, but not great.

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Speaker 1: But to your point, just like the community service you

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Speaker 1: just described, right, Um, those are things that not everyone does,

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Speaker 1: and so I think that that's what they're really looking for.

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Speaker 1: They're looking for people who want to dedicate themselves to

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Speaker 1: something bigger than themselves, who care about those around them

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Speaker 1: and want to see you know, it's one thing to

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Speaker 1: to achieve your own full potential, but if you can

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Speaker 1: inspire that kind of dedication and others, I think that's

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Speaker 1: what they were really looking for with someone who could

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Speaker 1: grow up and become a leader in the Navy. So

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Speaker 1: what was your time like at the academy? How how

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Speaker 1: does it work there? What do you study? Can you

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Speaker 1: kind of walk our listeners through it? You know? I

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Speaker 1: mean it's a a lead by saying it was a

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Speaker 1: phenomenal experience, but it's also the worst college experience you

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Speaker 1: could imagine, because it's you know, it's a military school.

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Speaker 1: So each of the military schools has its own flavor.

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Speaker 1: The nail academies fairly rigid, you are, you know, they've

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Speaker 1: got a literal wall around the school it's in a

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Speaker 1: beautiful part. I mean it's in Annapolis, Maryland, but it's

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Speaker 1: a very rigid military structure. And I realized just how

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Speaker 1: rigid it was because I had an opportunity when I

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Speaker 1: was a junior to go as an exchange student to

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Speaker 1: the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. And I'm like, man,

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Speaker 1: his places like heaven because much more I wouldn't say relaxed.

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Speaker 1: But it was not nearly as stringent as the Nablo,

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Speaker 1: how it was, But it's everything from your practice drill.

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Speaker 1: So they give you they literally give you a rifle.

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Speaker 1: And so several times a week you're all forming into

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Speaker 1: formations and you and you marched onto the football field

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Speaker 1: and you practice, you're doing school work and you also

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Speaker 1: I think the thing that I really enjoyed was that

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Speaker 1: you had these field trips. You could go and train

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Speaker 1: with the Marine Corps, you could train with other members

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Speaker 1: of the services, and and to me that was neat

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Speaker 1: because it felt like you were you were doing something

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Speaker 1: a little bit beyond um what you might at just

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Speaker 1: a normal university, and that that appealed to me very cool.

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Speaker 1: And what did you study? So I studied computer science? Uh,

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Speaker 1: it seemed like a natural fit from my interest in

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Speaker 1: high school and carried that forward. So was there, all

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Speaker 1: told for the standard four years. And what makes the

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Speaker 1: service Academy is unique is that when you graduate, you

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Speaker 1: immediately get commission and into one of the armed services.

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Speaker 1: So in my case, most of us would come out

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Speaker 1: and go to the Navy. Because the Naval Academy also

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Speaker 1: serves the Marine Corps, you could become a Marine Corps officer.

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Speaker 1: And then in my case, so I got commissioned as

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Speaker 1: an incident in the Navy and had been selected to

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Speaker 1: go straight to grad school. So that's what gave me

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Speaker 1: had the summer off, which was fantastic, and then I

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Speaker 1: went up to Boston to go to M I T

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Speaker 1: for a couple of years before actually becoming a pilot.

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Speaker 1: And what was your graduate degree in? So I got

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Speaker 1: to I got one in computer science and then the

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Speaker 1: other one was in of all things nuclear engineering. So

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Speaker 1: at what point, having done this double major at M

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Speaker 1: I T, at what point did you decide that you

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Speaker 1: definitely wanted to join the Navy And was there an

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Speaker 1: expectation that you would join the Navy given your schooling.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right. So that's one of the commitments you

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Speaker 1: one of the U. S Service academies brings you in.

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Speaker 1: That's what you're signing up for. So you can go

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Speaker 1: there for about two years and if for whatever season,

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Speaker 1: either because you choose to leave or because the academy says, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, we think this may not be a good

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Speaker 1: fit for you, you can walk away very easily. You

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Speaker 1: can transfer to another college, you can go on with

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Speaker 1: your life. Once you've hit that two year milestone, then

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Speaker 1: you're basically bought in. And so that's when you get

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Speaker 1: your degree and you graduate that you'll be commissioned as

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Speaker 1: an officer and to the Navy or into the Marine Corps.

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Speaker 1: So when I had gone to m I T, I

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Speaker 1: was already in the Navy. I was there as a

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Speaker 1: naval officer. One of the great benefits of being there

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Speaker 1: was you didn't have to wear a uniform, so you

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Speaker 1: just got to be a normal college student. After four

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Speaker 1: years of being at the academy. That was a great thing.

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Speaker 1: And then when I finished in I T after two years,

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Speaker 1: it was a quick pause and then straight down the Pensacola, Florida,

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Speaker 1: and that's where I actually started my flight training. Wow

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Speaker 1: was that wild to begin that and and to realize

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Speaker 1: that your dream as a kid was had arrived. It

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Speaker 1: absolutely was, you know, because you you from the moment

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Speaker 1: you show up, there's plane going overhead. Everything around you

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Speaker 1: is about aviation and about flying. And so like you

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Speaker 1: just said, I mean you sit there and kind of go,

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Speaker 1: this is it. You've arrived. But it's also a weird

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Speaker 1: feeling because even though you've arrived there and you're starting

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Speaker 1: your schooling, there's a long road. It takes about a

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Speaker 1: year and a half to two years until you finally

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Speaker 1: earn your wings. And so in the Navy or in

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Speaker 1: the Marine Corps, you get these gold wings that you

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Speaker 1: wear on your uniform, and so we appropriately call those

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Speaker 1: are our Navy wings of Gold. And it's a long

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Speaker 1: road and and every step along the way, they're kind

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Speaker 1: of weighing and measuring you. Are you gonna be someone

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Speaker 1: who flies helicopters? You can be someone who flies propeller

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Speaker 1: driven airplane or in my case, or you could be

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Speaker 1: someone who flies a jet. And if you fly jet,

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Speaker 1: what kind of jet? And Throughout that process, you're moving around.

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Speaker 1: So I started in Pensacola. We did a lot of

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Speaker 1: our academics there. Wind up going to Oklahoma to an

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Speaker 1: Air Force base to start learning, you know, the basics

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Speaker 1: of actually flying a jet plane, and then went to

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Speaker 1: Mississippi and that's where I kind of finished up most

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Speaker 1: of my training before going to California. And I was

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Speaker 1: in Lamore, California, where they have a big Navy fighter base,

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Speaker 1: And so that's why I learned to fly the plane

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Speaker 1: I flew for the majority of my career. It's a

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Speaker 1: plane called the F A teen, the Hornet. It's a

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Speaker 1: fighter jet, right, it is what what is that like?

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Speaker 1: I mean you you spent twenty years flying that plane

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Speaker 1: in the Navy, correct, I did? What is the experience?

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Speaker 1: And when are you flying? And why are you flying?

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Speaker 1: You know? Can can you kind of clue the listeners

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Speaker 1: in on the procedure of it all? You know? I

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Speaker 1: think that's even from my family's perspective, that's it's such

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Speaker 1: a disconnect, right. It's it's like yourself, right, being in

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Speaker 1: a public space, being an actress. You know, it's something

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Speaker 1: that it became normal for you, but for a vast

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Speaker 1: majority of people around you, they're in awe because of

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Speaker 1: what you accomplished throughout your career. And I would found

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Speaker 1: that when I would go home, my family always just

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Speaker 1: thought it was amazing that, you know, you're a fighter pilot.

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Speaker 1: This is what you do for your day to day job.

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Speaker 1: And for me, it was just my job. But it

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Speaker 1: was great because every single day you're flying once if

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Speaker 1: not twice, uh, And there's really I mean, it was

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Speaker 1: such an amazing feeling where you you have a helmet bag, uh,

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Speaker 1: and you would grab it, you get your flight gear on,

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Speaker 1: you'd walk out to the airplane and you're basically jumping

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Speaker 1: into your own personal sports car. Right, So it's a

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Speaker 1: fighter plane. It's out there. You started up, and then

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Speaker 1: you and your buddies will go out into your training.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes on a weekend if you needed to get

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Speaker 1: extra training, you could actually take the jet and and

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Speaker 1: tour of the country. Right, So you might take off

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Speaker 1: on a Friday and I could fly to Dallas, Texas

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Speaker 1: and see my family for the weekend and fly back

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Speaker 1: on a Sunday. So, I mean, it just was this

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Speaker 1: very unique experience. And of course when you're young, you're

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Speaker 1: really working hard just to make sure that you're really

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Speaker 1: good in the plane, and then as you gained seniority,

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Speaker 1: like you said, I did it for about twenty years.

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Speaker 1: So the more senior you've become, now it's about again,

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Speaker 1: how do you become a leader and able to teach

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Speaker 1: others to do what they do? And so that's that's

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Speaker 1: what led me. Ultimately, I'd flown in the United States

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Speaker 1: for a couple of years. I had a combat tour

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Speaker 1: where I flew fighter planes over a rock back in

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Speaker 1: around the two thousand three two thousand and four time frame.

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Speaker 1: And then because of that and my desire to want

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Speaker 1: to be the best I could, that's when I got

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Speaker 1: brought in to be a top gun instructor, which I

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Speaker 1: did for about two and a half years. Got it.

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Speaker 1: So when you're flying fighter planes in the US, you're

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Speaker 1: flying to train, you're doing drills, you're working with your team,

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Speaker 1: and all of that is to get you ready for

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Speaker 1: an eventual combat tour. It could be I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are those who've been blessed to maybe do their entire

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Speaker 1: career and not have any combat. But I think you

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Speaker 1: hit the big point, which when you find yourself on

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Speaker 1: the military, when you're in the military. You want to

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Speaker 1: be as prepared as possible so that if you're called

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Speaker 1: upon your you are ready to go. Uh. And that's

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Speaker 1: where I think sometimes there's this disconnect because I know

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Speaker 1: that when I spent time in the Pentagon, or when

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Speaker 1: I spent time, you know, talking going around the country

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Speaker 1: and talking about what I do, that there might be

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Speaker 1: a belief in some places where, hey, if you're in

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Speaker 1: the military, you really want to see combat, you want

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Speaker 1: to go to war. That's that's why you exist. And

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Speaker 1: I would tell you most of my friends that's not

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Speaker 1: what they're after. They do want to be the very

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Speaker 1: best at whatever job they have. If you're a Navy seal,

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Speaker 1: you want to be the very best Navy seal. If

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Speaker 1: you're a fighter pilot, be the best fighter pilot. But

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Speaker 1: it's largely incredibly important for us to do that because

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Speaker 1: the better we are, it makes other countries around the

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Speaker 1: world less likely to want to tangle with us. Interesting, So,

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Speaker 1: where where did because you mentioned this that you became

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Speaker 1: a top gun instructor, where where did this fall into

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Speaker 1: your timeline news? Yeah? So you know, that's I think

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Speaker 1: that that's the beauty of being in the military, is

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Speaker 1: that it's not all just flying fighter planes all the time.

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Speaker 1: You have chance to do different types of tours. So

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Speaker 1: when I had finished my time in a rock in

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Speaker 1: the two thousand three to two thousand five time frame,

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Speaker 1: now basically it's a standard tour of duty about three

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Speaker 1: years in a fighter squadron, and you get an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to go do something different, and a lot of my

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Speaker 1: friends would go and teach new students how to fly

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Speaker 1: the f A team, so they'd be an instructor pilot.

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Speaker 1: And then there's another course you can take. You could

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Speaker 1: be a test pilot for example, or potentially after become test,

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Speaker 1: probably be an astronaut. So you've got these different pathways

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Speaker 1: that are available, and in my case, I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to find a path to continue to hone my craft

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Speaker 1: to be a better fighter pilot, and one of the

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Speaker 1: paths available was to go through top Gun as a

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Speaker 1: student and then they take a few of you from

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Speaker 1: each class and then you can stay as an instructor,

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Speaker 1: and so that's the path that I took. So that

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Speaker 1: was probably in the two thousand five to two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight time frame was when that occurred. So, um,

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Speaker 1: you take in it and it's Top Gun so unique

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Speaker 1: because it's not an organization that a lot of senior

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Speaker 1: officers are in charge of. It's all the very junior

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Speaker 1: officers who have just completed their very first tour in

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Speaker 1: the Navy. You've had three to four years of experience

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Speaker 1: maybe in combat, but definitely flying and flying around aircraft carriers.

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Speaker 1: And so you're very good at what you do. And

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Speaker 1: now you come to Top Gun, which is located now

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Speaker 1: and Fallon, Nevada. I think everyone, of course remembers the

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Speaker 1: very first movie when it was in Miramar, California, but

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Speaker 1: they had moved it to Fallon, Nevada. And and so

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Speaker 1: you you show up there and you're with a lot

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Speaker 1: of like minded fighter pilots, and so you you band

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Speaker 1: together and you continue to find ways to improve the community,

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Speaker 1: because that's that's Top guns real role. You we said

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Speaker 1: that you would train the trainers, So you train all

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Speaker 1: the other leaders who go out and teach fighter pilots

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Speaker 1: how to be the best they can be. And you

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Speaker 1: also come up with the way that fighter pilots are

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Speaker 1: gonna actually fight their aircraft. And so from being a

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Speaker 1: Top Gun instructor, you then went back into the Pentagon.

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Speaker 1: So right after leaving as a top instructor. They invest

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Speaker 1: in you as a top instructor, so they want you

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Speaker 1: to do what's called a payback tour. So from my

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Speaker 1: my payback tour was to go to Japan. I was

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Speaker 1: in Japan for about three and a half years. And

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Speaker 1: the importance of being in Japan and we call it

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Speaker 1: the Ford Deployed Naval Force, and that means you have

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Speaker 1: an entire air wing station in Japan. Uh and air

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Speaker 1: wing is is like a bigger squadron. So a squadron

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Speaker 1: might have twelve fighter planes, and then the air wing

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Speaker 1: is gonna have four fighter squadron, it's going to have

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Speaker 1: an early warning aircraft squadron, it's gonna have helicopter squadron.

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Speaker 1: So they're all part of this cohesive hole that goes

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Speaker 1: out on the aircraft carrier together. And so we were

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Speaker 1: there for about three years. That meant that we patrolled

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Speaker 1: the Indo Pacific. So we would leave Japan, we would

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Speaker 1: go off the coast of China, or we would go

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Speaker 1: into port in South Korea or down to Australia and Philippines.

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Speaker 1: So I really got a chance to see the entirety

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Speaker 1: of the Indo Pacific. Once that tour was over. Then

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Speaker 1: I came back to uh, the United States and wound

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Speaker 1: up ultimately at the Pentagon. And how does that happen?

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Speaker 1: How do you wind up at the Pentagon? That's it's

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Speaker 1: a very casual way to say that, you know, I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's all all roads lead to the Pentagon, I think

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Speaker 1: at some point, But so I guess there was one

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Speaker 1: more stop. So you're right. I had left Japan. I

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Speaker 1: had applied for a program I was really excited about

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Speaker 1: for fourteen years. I'd wanted to be part of this

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Speaker 1: program called the White House Fellows. And so it's a

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Speaker 1: really amazing program. As the name applies, you know, the

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Speaker 1: current administration is the one who sponsors it, and they

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Speaker 1: will cast a wide net. You can have a lot

432
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: of people from around America apply. It's not just a

433
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 1: military program. It's it's largely not military, so men and

434
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 1: women from around America can apply. They usually have around

435
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 1: a thousand a year. Throw their name in the in

436
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,680
Speaker 1: the hat for it, and they ultimately you'll do some interviews.

437
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: I made it down to the very final selection and

438
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 1: there were about thirty of us competing at the national

439
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: finalists level, and I was ultimately not selected. So the

440
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: Navy kind of scrambled and said, Okay, well you're not

441
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: gonna go be a White House fellow, where can we

442
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 1: send you? So they wound up sending me to Newport,

443
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 1: Rhode Island. There's a school. They're called the Naval War College,

444
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: and the name if you're not in the military, the

445
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 1: name can sound a little alarming, but really it's a

446
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 1: it's a one year opportunity to go to have a

447
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: little bit of downtime after being overseas for so long,

448
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: after being on an aircraft carrier and doing other things.

449
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,199
Speaker 1: But it's a lot of reading, it's a lot of studying,

450
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 1: and to your point earlier in the conversation, it's a

451
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: chance for you to study conflict, to study how nations

452
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,719
Speaker 1: get into conflict, what did America learned from previous wars?

453
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 1: And I think once again, it gives you a really

454
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: good chance to reflect. And and I had done well

455
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 1: when I was there, and the person who runs the

456
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: entire U. S. Navy was in need of a speechwriter

457
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 1: to help them with, you know, communicating to Congress, communicating

458
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: to the American public, And so they asked if I'd

459
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: be interested, and I said, sure, so I went and

460
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 1: interviewed and ultimately was selected for the job. So that's

461
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 1: how I got to the Pentagon for the first time.

462
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: And what year is this. This would have been around

463
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve to two thousand thirteen. Yeah, and it

464
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: was quick. I mean I was there for maybe a

465
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: year and a half. And while I was there, you know,

466
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: just based on fate and timing, it was incredibly honored

467
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 1: to be selected for command of my own squadron. So

468
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: as you're you know, we're kind of talking about the

469
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 1: places I've been. But as you're in the military, the

470
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: longer you're in the you start to increase in your rank.

471
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 1: So I mentioned earlier in our conversation when graduated from

472
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 1: the Naval Academy, I had a rank, the very first

473
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: officer rank called ensign, and then over time you get

474
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 1: promoted to lieutenant and lieutenant commander. So that's where I

475
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 1: am at this stage. I've finished the Naval War College,

476
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: I'm a senior lieutenant commander, and now I'm in the

477
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: Pentagon writing speeches for the leader of the U. S.

478
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: Navy And they take everyone who's who's eligible to have

479
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: command of their own squadron and they'll compete, and then

480
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: they'll take a small number and and and they'll say congratulations,

481
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: and you know, you'll be promoted to commander, which I was,

482
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: and then you'll you'll be selected for your own squadron.

483
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: And so I found out that I was selected to

484
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 1: return to Japan and to have my own squadron. So

485
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: that's what brought me back to Japan, and I was

486
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: there the second time for about two and a half years.

487
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 1: So I'm fascinated by all of this, all the places

488
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: that you've been, in the ways that you've served, and

489
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: and how varied it is. And I also can't help

490
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: but think, how in the world do you have a

491
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 1: semblance of a personal life when you live the way

492
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: that you've explained to me you lived from two thousand

493
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: two essentially too, I mean what two thousand seventeen, like,

494
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: how do you have a personal life? What do you do?

495
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: Do you do you hang out with your buddies from

496
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 1: the aircraft carrier? How do you cultivate a life in

497
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: the Persian Gulf or or in Japan? How do you

498
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: have a relationship? Like? Because so much of this is

499
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: about service and sacrifice, but what is your life aside

500
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: from your military service while this is all going on, right,

501
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: when you think about this period of time, being in

502
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: the Pentagon, going back to Japan for the second time,

503
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: which will keep me there from around two thousand fourteen

504
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: to two thousand sixteen, and I'm married. My first son

505
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: was born when I was a top gun instructor, so

506
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: he was born in Nevada. My second son, my middle child,

507
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: was born in Japan during the first time. And my daughter,

508
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: Natalie was born while we were in Newport, Rhode Island. Right,

509
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: so now father of three, and of course you can imagine, Sarah,

510
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: my wife, has been amazing throughout this entire process because

511
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 1: just like you mentioned, I mean, I make this point

512
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: in the book, but is it's so easy to live

513
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: your dreams when someone else is paying the bill. And

514
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: when you think about this kind of military service where

515
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: you're gone a lot, where you're onboard an aircraft carrier,

516
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: sometimes physically separated for eight or nine months straight. You

517
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: may not see your your family for nine months. Um,

518
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: you know, they're the ones who really wind up paying

519
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: the bill because you know, Dad's gone. Where is Dad?

520
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: You know? And and mom, of course or your spouse

521
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: has a huge burden to not only take care of

522
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: the family some of them. Of course, you have a

523
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: lot of working spouses and so they have to juggle

524
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: a lot of things and it can become pretty complicated.

525
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: And I think the best way I heard it put

526
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: was when I was in the Pentagon the second time around.

527
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: This is the job that brought me there to work

528
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: for Secretary Maddis, and a buddy of mine who had

529
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: gone to the academy with handed me an article and

530
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: basically it said, if you want to be successful in life,

531
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: you need to think about five things, and that's work, sleep, friends, family,

532
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: and fun. So those are kind of like the five

533
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: major elements. And it's like, if you want to be successful,

534
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: picked two because those are the only two things you're

535
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: really going to be able to focus on. And we

536
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: always joked that, I mean, especially being on an aircraft

537
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: carrier or being in the Pentagon working for a guy

538
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: like Secretary Maddis. It was basically, you're focused on work

539
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: and sleep because that's really all you had time for,

540
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: and so you'd find time like when we were at

541
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: the Naval War College in Rhode Island, those were the

542
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: periods of time dedicated to giving you and your family

543
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: a chance to catch your breath. You spoke about eventually

544
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: being connected with Maddis. How did that happen and and

545
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: what were you doing working with him? Sure? So, I

546
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: had actually just returned to the United States with my family. Um,

547
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: and it's now the beginning of twenty seventeen, and so

548
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: of course the Trump administration had been sworn in. Madison

549
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: is now in the role as Secretary of Defense. I'm

550
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: actually in a job in Norfolk, Virginia, working for a

551
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: two star admiral and a longtime mentor of mine, someone

552
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: who had retired from the Navy. But he was a

553
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: three star admiral, so a very senior individual and someone

554
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: who I've I've deeply admired and respect. He called on

555
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: a weekend and said, Maddis is looking for someone who

556
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: can help run his speech team. He needs people now,

557
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: could would you be interested? Could you do it? And

558
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: you know, I took a deep breath because as I'm looking,

559
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: you know, I'm in the living room when I took

560
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: this call, and as I'm looking at my young kids

561
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: and Sarah. We had just moved from Japan, so we

562
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: came from halfway around the country and we'd only have

563
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: been there about two and a half months, and so

564
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: here comes this next call to potentially uproot the family

565
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 1: and serve. But there is no mistaking it was a

566
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: once in a lifetime opportunity. Maddis was a bit of

567
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: a legend and a myth within the military, someone who

568
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,479
Speaker 1: I respect and a lot of people deeply respect. And

569
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: so the chance to go work for him. What's the legend,

570
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: what's the myth? Because I'm not in the military idea,

571
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, Um, he's unique because he is widely perceived

572
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of memes on the internet of him. Uh,

573
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: he's perceived as a warrior, poet, someone who is a

574
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: very effective marine, can be a very hard person to

575
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: work for, but reads a ton. I mean at one

576
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: point he had somewhat somewhere about seven thousand books in

577
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: his personal library, So he has read a ton. He

578
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,959
Speaker 1: understands a lot about the world, He has a lot

579
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: of friends all over the place, and so the military

580
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: at that point in time kind of idolizes this guy.

581
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: I mean, when you think about three million people in

582
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: the military, and there's maybe a dozen who most everybody

583
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: in the military knows their name and knows their reputation

584
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: and he was one of those. So to be in

585
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: Virginia to received this call to asking if I go

586
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: work with Madis it I knew it would be a

587
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: strain on me in the family, but it felt like

588
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: a no brainer to at least take the interview, and

589
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: so I did. I went up to the Pentagon and

590
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: interviewed for the job, and maybe two or three days

591
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: later they called and said, how fast can you get here?

592
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: And so, because we had just moved the kids, I

593
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: wound up going to Washington, d c. By myself for

594
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: about three or four months as a geographic bachelor, and

595
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: just rented a basement up there. And so Sarah stayed

596
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: with the kids in Virginia so they could finish out

597
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: the semester, and then they came up as well. But

598
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: that's how that's how I wound up in Madis's office

599
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: and got started on that pathway. And you mentioned the book.

600
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: You wrote a book the title is Holding the Line

601
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: Inside Trump's Pentagon with Secretary Maddis, and you mentioned how

602
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: Secretary Madis is so revered as a man of respect

603
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: and law and perspective, and obviously we've lost a lot

604
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: of those things in the current administration and we are

605
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: seeing disasters with some of the actions that Trump is

606
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: ordering the military to take. And I have spoken behind

607
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: the scenes to some of the people who I'm still

608
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: close to, who work at pretty high levels of the U. S. Military,

609
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: who are pretty horrified and are deeply committed to holding

610
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: the line and trying to preserve America's position and dignity

611
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: despite the chaos that is currently happening. And you talk

612
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: about that chaos, you talk about disinformation and a complete

613
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: lack of strategy, that that the administration veers from one

614
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: decision to the next, and there's very little thought for consequences,

615
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: that that senior officials are really scrambling constantly to try

616
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: to hold this thing together in the face of the

617
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: President's whims and at times irrational orders. What I'm just like,

618
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here look at you, thinking like, what in

619
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: God's name is this like for you, as a as

620
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: a longstanding military serviceman, to to witness all of this. Yeah,

621
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: I was flabber aghasted. Right. So there's a scene in

622
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: the book in chapter six where I described meeting President

623
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: Trump for the first time, and I was the one.

624
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: So my role with Mattis was to come in and

625
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: initially I was his chief speechwriter, right, so you know,

626
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: my job was to anything he would say publicly, anything

627
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: he would write to Congress, or you know, when we

628
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: go overseas. That's that was My job was to work

629
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: with my speech writing team and produce that and make

630
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: his job as easy as possible. And then after being

631
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: there for a few months, I got elevated to the

632
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: role of Director of Communications, which was much more broad

633
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: in its expanse. So by this point in time, we're

634
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: talking July of two thousand and seventeen, we are now

635
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: going to give President Trump his very first briefing at

636
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: the Pentagon about the importance of your military. And we

637
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: knew from talking to Secretary Madison at the Secretary of

638
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: State at the time, Secretary Rex Tillerson, the President didn't

639
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: have a lot of knowledge about the military or international affairs.

640
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: You know, he had a lot of opinions, but not

641
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: a lot of knowledge about it. So you know, this

642
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: is like the grand plan. We're gonna bring President Trump

643
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: to the Pentagon and you're gonna have a lot of

644
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: these very senior leaders helped educate him, show him the

645
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: importance of America's military, And as I described in the book,

646
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: it does not go well. And you have a president

647
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: who had no interest in really or or not even interests.

648
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: He just didn't care about the fact that America has

649
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: a longstanding, you know, set of allies around the country,

650
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: like Japan, England, France. I mean, there's all these countries

651
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,239
Speaker 1: that since World War Two, we've been a part of

652
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: this big inner national community. And I think that's something

653
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: that as you do that comparison between administrations, you know,

654
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: President Obama knew all too well the importance of having

655
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: those alliances because we're stronger when we band together and

656
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: we can speak with one voice. And especially like you

657
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: we've alluded to in this conversation, you know, America has

658
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: long stood for those types of values. You may look

659
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: back with perfect hindsight and say, well, we should not

660
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: have taken that course of action, but I've always felt

661
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: very confident that when we took a big course of action,

662
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: it's for the right reasons. And so to be in

663
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: the room with you know, those senior leaders, Vice President Pence,

664
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: President Trump, the Secretary of the Treasury, I mean, all

665
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: these heavy hitters, and they're doing their level best to

666
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: teach the president about why these various functions are important.

667
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: Why the economy is important, Why by having a military

668
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: force around the world is important. And he's just like,

669
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: I could care less. I want to do a military

670
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: parade down Pennsylvania Avenue. Hey, did you see when I

671
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: was in France and I shook President mccrone's hand man,

672
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: he would never let go, and you and you find

673
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: yourself wondering, like what is going on here? And he

674
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: started talking about leaks from the White House. I mean,

675
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: it was everything but the importance of America and the

676
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: importance of America's forces. And you know that's how I

677
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: in the chapter, and it's it's it's an honest assessment.

678
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: When I left the room and went back to my office,

679
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: I was white because I could not have imagined that.

680
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: You know, you think that there's a public persona, but

681
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: you just don't realize that that might actually be how

682
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: someone is behind closed doors. I'm just aghast. I mean,

683
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: I know because I see it and I read everything

684
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: about everything I can get my hands on, really every day,

685
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: but it is just so shocking. Something that just struck me.

686
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: Listening to you explain the conversation you all attempted to

687
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: have with him, is that not only does he not care,

688
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: but he doesn't know how to listen. And the idea

689
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: that a person who is tasked with running a global superpower,

690
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: who's position should be maintaining peace and putting the world forward,

691
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: the world, not just us, but the world, because as

692
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: you mentioned, when we support each other, the world gets stronger,

693
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 1: the world gets better. That he doesn't even know how

694
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: to listen to voices in the room that carry critical information,

695
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: it frightens me that he's not desirous of an education

696
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: in the position that he's found himself in. Right, and

697
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 1: in the popular perception, there's been plenty of stories out there.

698
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: Like you said, I'm like you. I read everything I

699
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: can get my hands on, and you know it's true.

700
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a president who does not read.

701
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: He doesn't he doesn't read it, doesn't read books, he

702
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: doesn't read history. When the intelligence community would will bring

703
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: him briefings ort to let him know what's really going

704
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: on around the world, he doesn't read it, or or

705
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: he might read it and wants to dismiss it. And

706
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: so to have been there in the room to be

707
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: their first hand. And two, as you just said, you mean,

708
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: I've always pictured and That's why I walked out pale,

709
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: because I've always pictured, you know, a lot of gravitas,

710
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: whether it was Obama or bush Um or Clinton. I mean,

711
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: just this is the president of the United States of America,

712
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 1: and they're gonna be well read, They're gonna be very

713
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: educated on the topic at hand. They want their best

714
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: advisors to give options, and then from those options, they're

715
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: going to pick the way forward. And so to be

716
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: in the room where that's not the case and where

717
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 1: the conversation is more along the lines of, you know,

718
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: how he was personally slided by another world leader, or

719
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: how we're in a rock and so we need to

720
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: basically steal all their oil and reparations for you know,

721
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: fighting terrorism on their soil. And you kind of, you know,

722
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: the first time you hear it, you think, Okay, he's joking,

723
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: but he's not. He's not. I mean, it's really what

724
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: he thinks. It's really how he behaves and acts behind

725
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: closed doors. And when you only have two dozen people

726
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 1: who are incredibly senior in the room, I mean, they're

727
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: not putting on a show. I mean, this is who

728
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: they really are. And I think that's that's what I

729
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: found to be so alarming about that scenario. And of course,

730
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: also in the book, I talked about the second time

731
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: he came to the Pentagon, which went very much like

732
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: the first time. So that's that's where we are in

733
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: the current moment. Obviously, everyone's lives have changed drastically between

734
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: when we last spoke and and us speaking today. And

735
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: I am curious for you as we're talking about your

736
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: professional life and what you've witnessed, how are things for you.

737
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: It's funny the last time you and I had a

738
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: chance to chat back in January, you know, if you recall,

739
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: I was pretty circumspect during our conversation. You know, I'd

740
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,959
Speaker 1: recently retired from the US military. I didn't necessarily feel

741
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: comfortable kind of calling the balls and strikes, if you will,

742
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: for you know, members in the public eye, someone like

743
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: the president or the vice president will or cabinet members.

744
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: I think what we've seen over the interceding nine ten

745
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: months has certainly demonstrated that, you know, you're seeing more

746
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: and more patriots speak out at this point in time,

747
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: and I think that's critically important because you know, look,

748
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: it's our country and we do need to find a

749
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: way to unite, you know, It's funny because I'm a

750
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 1: student of history myself. The boss that I served most recently,

751
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: former Secretary Defense, James Maddis, is a well known you know,

752
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: as they call him, a warrior scholar, the warrior monk.

753
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: And so when you when you study history, you know,

754
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: you always find yourself kind of looking backwards to say, Okay, yes,

755
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: it feels very politically tense right now. There's a lot

756
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: of hate and discontent being thrown about, and and it's

757
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: easy to kind of go back to, Okay, well that

758
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: was the seventies or that. But when you really take

759
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: a further look back, I mean, when can you find

760
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: such a fractious period of time where the President of

761
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: the United States is the one who's creating the crisis.

762
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: So that's where it's it's fascinating for me. A large

763
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: part of my family lives in North Texas, UM and

764
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 1: they have very conservative values, and so, okay, I can

765
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 1: I can understand and appreciate many of those values. But

766
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: what I can't understand is how such a large cross

767
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 1: section of the country is willing to kind of abandon

768
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: their own moral compass to embrace someone who, through their actions,

769
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: not just their words, but through their actions have proven

770
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: as this president has that he doesn't ascribe to those

771
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: same types of you know, he doesn't care about integrity,

772
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: doesn't care about character, um, and so you know, there's

773
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: just so many things that that line of reasoning opens

774
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: up as you really start to thinking about, well, where

775
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: is this taking our country? Because I think it is

776
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: you and I grew up. I mean a lot of times,

777
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: whether you agree or disagree with the president who is

778
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: in office, you could still say they were presidential and

779
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: you could still say they were someone that maybe you

780
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: disagree with their policies, but largely you could say I

781
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: would feel comfortable with my children looking to that individual

782
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: for measure of what we should aspire to become. And

783
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: I think that the first time, at least of my

784
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: adult life, that certainly that is no longer the case.

785
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: And I think that that's the part, Like you said,

786
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: that it's very attention grabbing. Yeah, I think something that

787
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: feels really important to highlight for folks is having conversations

788
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: that are this frank people as you stated over the

789
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: last year in particular, who have been willing to get

790
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: up and voice the truth and voice to sent and

791
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: ring the alarm bells. This is not about being alarmist.

792
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: This is about sounding an alarm because it's a crisis.

793
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot of people who have

794
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 1: this strange assumption that, oh, it can't happen here. This

795
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: is America. We have rules, and there's a lot of

796
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: people in in my personal experience, who have not been

797
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 1: taking what is happening here seriously enough. And I'm curious

798
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 1: if you think that realizing that that truth is um

799
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: is one that's been hard for people to wrap their

800
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: heads around. Do you think that's why so many people

801
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: who have worked in this administration and left, so many

802
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: people who have held government position under forty and left,

803
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: are all really coming forward and getting honest that this

804
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: is a moment where we either pick country or we

805
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: don't this This isn't about party, it's country over party

806
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: right now? Does that ring true for you, coming from,

807
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: as you said, a more conservative background. You know, it's

808
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: really interesting because when we spoke months ago, UM I

809
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: had just released my first book, Holding the Line, and

810
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: it described what I was a first my first hand

811
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: account of what I had witnessed when I was working

812
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: for Secretary Defense James Madison, and just how difficult it

813
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: was to work within the Trump administration, and because of that,

814
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: I was able to basically share some insights and and

815
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: talk about a little bit more about how Mattis truly

816
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: felt about the president he served, because it really is

817
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 1: a chaotic environment. And then you fast forward to just

818
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago when I released my second book,

819
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: which really is a lot more fun. It's taking a

820
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: look at my time as a top gun instructor. Right, so,

821
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: part of this elite institution of naval aviators much like

822
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: Navy Seals, Delta Force, etcetera. Right, you have these small

823
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: units with branch of the military. And the reason why

824
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: I bring that up is because one of the persistent

825
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: questions I get asked with a lot of my recent

826
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: public speaking or appearances is you know, if you've written

827
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 1: a book on leadership, and you've written a book about

828
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: your experiences as a top gun instructor, what do you

829
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 1: make of the military's kind of recent break with President Trump.

830
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: This all started, really, I think it came to a

831
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: head in early June when President Trump used what appeared

832
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: to be military or policing force, of course, to clear

833
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: Lafayette Square walk across the street, hold up the Bible,

834
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: of course, has been covered at nausea. But the result

835
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 1: was that you had so many men and women who

836
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: had achieved senior levels of positions within the U S

837
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: Military or within President Trump's own cabinet who had left

838
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: the administration, and normally they take almost a vow of silence.

839
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: There's this widespread perspective that when you have served in uniform,

840
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: because it's a nonpartisan institution, you serve either a Republican

841
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: or a Democratic president equally. It doesn't matter what your

842
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: own personal politics are. You check those at the door.

843
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: You do what's best for the country. So it was

844
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: very noteworthy when a many of these individuals felt very

845
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: compelled to to write op edge, to go on TV.

846
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 1: In fact, just yesterday I believe it was, or maybe

847
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: this morning. I mean, you had General Stanley McCrystal, who

848
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 1: has also written a lot about leadership from the lens

849
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 1: of a military leader, who came out and formally endorsed

850
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,879
Speaker 1: Vice President Joe Biden for President United States. That's very

851
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: rare in middle terry circles. It's something that when it happens,

852
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: usually people get called out for and when you see

853
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: so many individuals who are normally very nonpartisan and how

854
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: they deal with politics, willing to come out and say

855
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 1: that what you're seeing with President Donald Trump is not

856
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: the kind of country we should aspire to be. It

857
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: doesn't embrace the values, it doesn't embrace the morality, it

858
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 1: doesn't embrace theseful equality everything that has been coming to

859
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: a head under the first three and half of years

860
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 1: of this presidency. Um, we need to get back to

861
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: more normalcy and we need to re enter the world

862
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: community and take our retake our leadership role that we

863
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: used to have under President Trump's predecessors, like President Obama,

864
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 1: Bush and beyond. So, Yes, I think it's very noteworthy

865
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: that so many people who would normally never speak up

866
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: are doing so. And I also think it's incredibly noteworthy

867
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: and it's very rare that so many people who have

868
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: worked for a sitting president are coming out and speaking

869
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: against him. And I am curious, as you said, we

870
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: had a conversation at the beginning of the year. Uh,

871
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 1: we didn't know that a pandemic was about to reach

872
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: our shores. On the more personal end of the spectrum,

873
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: how how are things for you? What is happening in

874
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: your life? Did did the pandemic open up the space

875
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: for you to write your latest book. I'm curious how

876
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:20,919
Speaker 1: how it's been for you at home. Yeah, I would

877
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: say that, you know, one of the benefits of having

878
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: had a background in the military, having served for two

879
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: decades as a fighter pilot, was that, Uh, my wife

880
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 1: is amazing. Sarah and my three children. You know, they

881
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: came up in a situation where you move every year

882
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: and a half two years, uh, the only constant in

883
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 1: their lives was changed. And so I think that from

884
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: a from a family standpoint, we were incredibly well equipped

885
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: because of our experiences together. When the pandemic hit and

886
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: it caused force many you know, of course, millions of

887
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: families into virtual learning, into a complete just see change,

888
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: and how we operated in our daily lives, Sarah and

889
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: the children were able to adapt very quickly. I would

890
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: say though, that that's again going back to just the

891
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: state affairs we're in. It's it's interesting, and I thought

892
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: Vice President Biden made a really excellent point when he

893
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: could interject one in the last debate, and that was, um,

894
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: you have to get you have to get past the

895
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: pandemic before you can really get to a situation where

896
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: the economy can recover where everything can take off. And

897
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: I think that's not just for our nation, that's in

898
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: our own individual lives, that's with our families as well. Um.

899
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: You know, you keep hearing when you listen to medical

900
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: practitioners Dr. Fauci and others, the timeline for a vaccine,

901
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: the timeline too, to create a credible pathway in the

902
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: medical community to actually overcome this virus is longer than

903
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: what we're hearing from the politicians, and so the danger

904
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: there is, of course, Uh, let me take a step back.

905
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: I'd say that as a fighter pilot, one of the

906
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: things we were always trained to do was debrief every

907
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: single flight we were a part of. So and we,

908
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: in fact, we'd say that's the most important part of

909
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: the flight. So you would brief it, you know, like

910
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 1: you and I would get together in a briefing room.

911
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,959
Speaker 1: We would discuss the mission and about what we're about

912
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: to accomplish. We jumped you into our flight gear, we

913
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: climb into our cockpits, and we take off and we

914
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: would conduct our mission, whether it was air to air

915
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: or air to ground. And then when we land, you

916
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: take off your flight gear and now you head back

917
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: and that's when you debrief, and that's so critically important

918
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: because that's where you really learned the lessons. And not

919
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: only do you learn the lessons from that flight, but

920
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: you apply them in a very conscious way to what

921
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 1: you're gonna do tomorrow, the next week, the next month, forever.

922
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: So that's where I think there's been a huge failure.

923
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: Yet again, is that even early on when there were

924
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 1: where there were key pieces of information coming out, and

925
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: of course we've heard because of the Wold Word tapes

926
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: in book, that the severity of the pandemic was much

927
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: more knowable, and the president knew exactly what was going

928
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: on way early on and just misled the American public.

929
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: That that's the danger, is that there were so many

930
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: different intervening months where we could have this off with

931
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: the past. We could have unified the nation to do

932
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 1: what we've now learned are three or four very easy

933
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: steps to slow the spread. And you could have potentially

934
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: not only for my family, for your family, for for

935
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: you know, but for millions of families around this country.

936
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: We could have made their lives so much easier if

937
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: there had been just those appropriate steps but in place

938
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: to help mitigate the spread, right especially in terms of

939
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: a national response, because certain states trusted the science went

940
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: into lockdowns, enacted precautions, but with people traveling the way

941
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: that we do, it didn't really make enough of a

942
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: difference for a lot of people. And and it's incredibly

943
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: enraging to me, and I know so many of us,

944
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, with the Woodward tapes, to hear Trump

945
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: say it's airborne, it's deadly. It's so much more severe

946
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: than a flu. Bob. This thing is like the plague.

947
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: If it gets you, you're done. And then to be

948
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: on stages talking to the American public and saying that

949
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: this was a hoax, It was a democratic hoax, it

950
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: was an attempt at election interference, I mean the gal

951
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: to say such a thing about, by the way, not

952
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: just something killing American citizens, but a global pandemic, a

953
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: disease that is killing people all over the world. It

954
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: was such a show to me, as a person who's

955
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: done some pretty deep dives into psychology, because you know,

956
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 1: my job requires that I can understand the thinking of

957
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: other human beings in order to learn to think like

958
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 1: them at work. It was the most blatant show of

959
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: extreme narcissism I'd ever seen for one man to say,

960
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: this is all happening so people can say I'm bad

961
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: at my job. It was almost laughable because he is

962
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: so bad at his job, but but astonishing that you know,

963
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: people were dying around in the world and he was

964
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: saying this was an attack on him. Right. And so again,

965
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: if you take it back just to pure leadership, I

966
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,439
Speaker 1: think you make an You make such an excellent point,

967
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: and that is, you know, one of the jobs that

968
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: a leader performs is really kind of multifacet right. So

969
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: first and foremost, the role of a leader is to

970
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: help encourage others around you to accomplish more than you

971
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: would given your own left to your own devices. Right,

972
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: So if I'm if I'm fairly lazy, if I don't

973
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: want to get the job done, but then here comes

974
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 1: someone who's inspiring and propels me to greater heights. That

975
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: is what a leader, the positive role a leader can have.

976
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: And so that's what's so frustrating is because I think

977
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: you said something very insightful, and that is when you

978
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: have a large portion of the country that wants to

979
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: rely on the science um and understands that this is

980
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: a global pandemic and we need to do our part

981
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: in it. You have another part of the country that

982
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 1: thought that it truly was a hoax, that it was fake,

983
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: that it was blown up in order to try and

984
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: harm this present. That's where the leadership comes in. So

985
00:50:58,040 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: if you were, you know, and again getting back to

986
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 1: what a debrief looks like, if you were to rewind

987
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: the clock and go back to the February or even

988
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: March time frame, could you imagine if President Trump had

989
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: taken to the podium at the White House and said,

990
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 1: you know, my fellow Americans, we are facing a pandemic um.

991
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 1: We have not yet seen it take off the United States,

992
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: but I need all Americans to embrace these four simple steps.

993
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: And here's what we're gonna do. And so you already

994
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: had the men and women who believed in the science

995
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: of the matter. Now you'd bring along all of your followers,

996
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: and I use that term deliberately, right, all your followers

997
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: who will will listen to you. And so they may

998
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: not normally have wanted to give up individual liberty in

999
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: order to wear a mask or socially distance, but because

1000
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 1: the President United States is asking them to do so,

1001
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: then you get to the desired result. Not only for

1002
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: you as the president, but for the entire nation. And frankly,

1003
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: that's what's so fascinating about President Trump is he will

1004
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: routinely take self defeating positions. Because if he had unified

1005
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 1: the country, if we had overcome the virus at a

1006
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: rate that was equal to or better than Europe or

1007
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: are or other places, he could claim that as a victory.

1008
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 1: He'd be going into this reelection saying, look at what

1009
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: my administration truly, you know, conducted, what we what we

1010
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: were able to accomplish, and instead it's just a complete mess.

1011
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: And then to your other point, which I think is

1012
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: also spot on, to blame everybody else for any shortcomings, again,

1013
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: that that is so far afield from what a leader

1014
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: really is genuinely supposed to be, which is someone who's

1015
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: humble enough to say, if I made a mistake, that's

1016
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: my faults, but yet we can still correct it, and

1017
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: we can move forward and still achieve the results we want. Yeah,

1018
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: and it's odd to me that there's no rationality in

1019
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: the argument, because, as you said, even for people who

1020
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: aren't fans of his policies, which clearly I'm not, if

1021
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: he had responded well on this, I would be thrilled.

1022
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: I would be thrilled to say, you know what, I

1023
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: don't like what he's doing with the courts, and I

1024
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: think what he's doing to the environment is atrocious. But

1025
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: he did us a solid on this pandemic. And why

1026
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,439
Speaker 1: you wouldn't want your critics to see you as a leader?

1027
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: Why why you why you double down and say, well,

1028
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: if you leave out the blue states, if you leave

1029
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: out the Democrat runs, cities were doing well, That's not true.

1030
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: The cases surging in the Dakotas, in Montana, you know,

1031
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: in in red states, in places that he won, people

1032
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: are dying. And we had on the day you and

1033
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: I are talking over two hundred and four thousand Americans

1034
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: are dead from COVID nineteen. It's it's a nine eleven

1035
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 1: every two and a half days. We're on track to

1036
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:38,439
Speaker 1: lose four hundred thousand people by the end of the year.

1037
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: And he's saying he did a great job and that

1038
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: you know if at the debates that if Biden had

1039
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: been president, it would have been worse. And I just

1040
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 1: kept thinking when h one n one hit our shores

1041
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: because President Obama and Vice President Biden had not defunded

1042
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: the pandemic Response Network at the CDC, which Donald Trump did.

1043
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: They were able to keep h one and one deaths

1044
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: in one year under people. It was over just a

1045
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: little over twelve thousand people. That's devastating to America. That's

1046
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: twelve thousand mothers and fathers and sons and daughters and

1047
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: sisters and friends and and and to say that two

1048
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,320
Speaker 1: hundred and four thousand deaths in six months is somehow

1049
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: a far greater success than twelve thousand deaths in the

1050
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: course of a year when something completely then was eradicated.

1051
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: Because of the quality of their response, I'm just I'm

1052
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 1: dumbfounded that we even entertain these kinds of topics and conversation.

1053
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:48,919
Speaker 1: And so that's and that's the the norm shattering role

1054
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 1: that history will look back on with President Donald Trump

1055
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: is the fact that rule of law did not hold

1056
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: sway that you know, you can lie, you could There's

1057
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: just so many socially acceptable norms, not only within our

1058
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: own American society, but what we expect of our elected

1059
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: leaders that have been shattered. And it's not that it's

1060
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: hyperbole or it's not that you take something and you know,

1061
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: I mean, every politician wants to accentuate their positives. They

1062
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: want to minimize our negatives. They want to do the

1063
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: opposite for those that that that they're running against. So

1064
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: we all get that. But what's so dangerous is when

1065
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: you have someone who's willing to mislead the American public

1066
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: on such a widespread scale, and so you have an

1067
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 1: ongoing pandemic. And another thing you touched on the very beginning,

1068
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: which I do think we should spend a little time

1069
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 1: thinking about, and that is the upcoming election. You know,

1070
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: we're essentially about a month away at the stage, and

1071
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: when you think about the fact that you have the

1072
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: President of the United States leading the charge that no

1073
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,800
Speaker 1: matter of the outcome, it will be a uh, you know,

1074
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 1: election that ultimately will become contested because he's convincing everybody,

1075
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,959
Speaker 1: or seeking to convince everyone that you know that there's

1076
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: so much fraud and abuse happening in the electoral system.

1077
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: When even his own FBI director and others are coming

1078
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 1: out and saying, look that that is not there, it

1079
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: doesn't show that that's that's not been a systemic issue

1080
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: in American electoral system throughout our history. So while we

1081
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 1: should always remain vigilant, it doesn't mean that that's happening here,

1082
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: nor do we expect it to happen here. But he

1083
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 1: wants to already, he's been doing this for a few

1084
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 1: months now, you know, start to undercut the peaceful transfer

1085
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: power and everything else. And I still go back to

1086
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: the fact that that all Americans aren't up in arms

1087
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 1: saying this is not the role of the president United

1088
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: States to call into question or democratic systems to call

1089
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: into into question, you know, whether or not my vote

1090
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: will count. I mean, that is absolutely so far afield,

1091
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: regardless of your politics that I think whether you're on

1092
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,479
Speaker 1: the right or left side of the aisle, that should

1093
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: that should bother all of us equally. Yes, I agree,

1094
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: I agree, And and it's it's shocking to me to

1095
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: see how he's man to make this political infighting spirited

1096
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: in the sense of a playground fight. It feels so

1097
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 1: childish what I'm watching When people say, yeah, who cares

1098
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 1: about the norms? We just want our guy to win.

1099
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: It feels a little bit like child's play, like oh, well,

1100
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.

1101
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 1: It's it's so unbelievably crass and and I think beneath us,

1102
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 1: And it's been interesting as you mentioned to see so

1103
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: many people attempt to remind us as a citizenry of

1104
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: what's really at stake, you know, of of the true

1105
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: disrespect for democracy we see when when the first president

1106
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: in history says he will not adhere to a peaceful

1107
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: transfer of power should he lose the election. And you

1108
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: shared an article recently on Twitter that I read and

1109
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: Trump's former Coast Guard chief endorsed Vice President Biden, and

1110
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: the letter was signed by nearly two other retired senior

1111
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: leaders also endorsing Biden. And they said in this open letter,

1112
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: we love our country. Unfortunately we also fear for it.

1113
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: And they go on to talk about how President Trump

1114
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: and his as they wrote, disdainful attitude and his failures

1115
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: um due to those things, are allies no longer trust

1116
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 1: our respect us, and our enemies no longer fear us

1117
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: as a service member. Should that ring a greater alarm

1118
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: bell to the general American public? Well, yes, I I

1119
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: think it should. Again. I think the way you conduct

1120
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: yourself in office, the way you conduct yourself in the

1121
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: public realm, matters. It matters deeply, not only because you're

1122
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: in a position of a power and authority over other

1123
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: Americans who put you there. I mean, you should be

1124
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: accountable to us um, but you also have a responsibility

1125
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: to serve as an example for who you want those

1126
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: following your footsteps to be. Right, what value should we

1127
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: ascribe to? What um style of government, you know, do

1128
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: we choose to have? And so once again you can

1129
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: get away from the policy aspects. I mean, I love

1130
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: the stories that came out recently upon the passing of

1131
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 1: Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburgh, right, the fact that she was

1132
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: almost ideologically the opposite of antonin Scalia, but they had

1133
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: a long, deep, abiding friendship that transcended their politics or

1134
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: transcended their views on the Constitution. And so again I

1135
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: think that's that's the style of America we have to

1136
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: find our way to get back to. And I say

1137
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: that because you know, one of the roles that I

1138
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: played in the U. S Military as a senior leader

1139
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: was was as a strategist, right, I mean, you're you know,

1140
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: part of the job of the military is to look

1141
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: outside the borders of the United States of America and

1142
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: to keep an eye you know, work with our allies

1143
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: and partners abroad, but also to keep an eye on

1144
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: those who would seek to compete with us, which of

1145
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: course happens on a daily basis, and then, of course,

1146
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 1: should conflict arise, you know who who would you actually

1147
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: go into conflict with? And that's something that has concerned me,

1148
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: you know, concerned me during the first two years when

1149
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: I was working with Secretary Madis in the Trump administration.

1150
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: It's concerned me even more since then over the last

1151
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: year and a half or so. And that while we're

1152
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: so internally distracted, while I mean, we can we can't

1153
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 1: even get over this pandemic, which is something that based

1154
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: on some easy steps we can take, we should be

1155
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 1: able to do in a fairly rapid fashion at least

1156
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: get it controllable so we can focus elsewhere. Um, you know, China, Russia,

1157
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: others truly enjoy they like what they're seeing, because most empires,

1158
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: most nations that that suffer long term downfalls or conflict

1159
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: it because you start to erode from within. And so

1160
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: I think a lot of what we've kind of been

1161
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 1: dancing around throughout our conversation is the fact that America's, uh,

1162
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: we're facing one of those tipping points right now, which is,

1163
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: what do you see not only the next four years

1164
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: looking like, but those next four years will determine what

1165
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: the next two to three decades will look like. Is this,

1166
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: Does America say that what we've seen in this style

1167
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: of government, the way that that President Trump conducts himself,

1168
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: do we repudiate it and say that, no, we need

1169
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 1: to rise above, we need to restore democratic principles, and

1170
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,959
Speaker 1: we need to become a beacon for the world yet again.

1171
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: Or do we succumb and simply perpetuate what we've witnessed

1172
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: the last three and that years, and that puts US

1173
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 1: even further behind. And I really do think that it

1174
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 1: is that stark of a choice. It's dangerous because many Unfortunately,

1175
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 1: I think there there have been some groups, like of

1176
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: course the Republican Party who have embraced President Trump because

1177
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: I think they see it as a vehicle to get

1178
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 1: things done. You know. The Russians have this saying about

1179
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: leaders that they like, you know, and this was used

1180
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 1: early on when there was concerns about Russian influence in

1181
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 1: the two thousand and sixteen election, and that is, you

1182
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: know that there are useful idiots. And I do think

1183
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: that there's an element of the Republican Party looking at

1184
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 1: Donald Trump as hey, this guy is a useful idiot.

1185
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: And I hate to say that he's our commander in chief,

1186
01:01:58,280 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I can never have a bad

1187
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 1: him saying this about any of our previous presence. But look,

1188
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 1: he gets out there, he blusters. He obviously doesn't understand

1189
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 1: the depths of policy. He's proven through his actions and

1190
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 1: his words he doesn't care about any of that stuff.

1191
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: So the Republican Party, while President Trump's in power and

1192
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: should he be re election, they see it an avenue

1193
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: to continue to further what but what have you given

1194
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: up by pursuing that path? And I think that we

1195
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: need to take We need to take a much broader

1196
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: view of the America. We live in the America. We're

1197
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: all a part of um instead of just being very

1198
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 1: narrowly focused on my policy positions and does his reelection

1199
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: help me or not. It is a wild time to

1200
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: realize how much people have dug in their heels on

1201
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: this idea that they deserve to get every single thing

1202
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: they want and damn the man who stands in their way. This,

1203
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: this sort of individualism is really surprising to me. And

1204
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: you know, I I had the great pleasure of working

1205
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 1: in the obama An administration on certain initiatives, you know,

1206
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 1: working as a surrogate, really getting out there and campaigning

1207
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 1: in terms of things like healthcare reform and girls education.

1208
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 1: And something that's really surreal to me is that what

1209
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 1: seems to have happened over the last four years is

1210
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 1: this idea that everyone is willing to sort of cannibalize

1211
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: their own being, our own citizens to win. And you know,

1212
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: in in this most recent campaign to get to our nominee,

1213
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: I actually was really on I was on the warrant train.

1214
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: I think she's brilliant. I think she would do incredible

1215
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 1: reform work that we really need, particularly in terms of

1216
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 1: the economy. Um. But I also I am an enormous

1217
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 1: fan of Senator Harris. I'm I'm honored to live in

1218
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: California and and you know, be represented by her. And

1219
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: I'm i am a big fan of the Vice president

1220
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: and and so I've had to have some cam versations

1221
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 1: where people on quote my side are a bit apathetic

1222
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 1: because they didn't get you know, Julian Castro or Andrew

1223
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: Yang or Elizabeth Warren as their candidate. And the thing

1224
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: I keep coming back to is we don't marry our presidents.

1225
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: We're not looking for our perfect partner. We're looking for leaders,

1226
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: and we owe it to our fellow citizens to take

1227
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 1: their needs into account. And it's meaningful to me that

1228
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: folks I've sat down with in Oklahoma and in Ohio

1229
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: and in New Hampshire say, you know, we really believe

1230
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 1: in President Biden. That's the guy we want to vote for.

1231
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 1: That's the guy we want to see as president. Um,

1232
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: who am I to say, well, forget it, I'm not

1233
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: going to vote for your guy because I'm not getting

1234
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 1: exactly what I want. It's so infantile and temper tantrum me.

1235
01:04:56,560 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 1: And you know, to me, my hope is that we

1236
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: can get back to a place where we're willing to

1237
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: compromise with each other, because us as as a group

1238
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 1: of citizens in fighting means we're not paying attention to

1239
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: what's happening at the top. And one of my favorite journalists,

1240
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 1: Sarah Kenzier, said Trump has no interest in ruling America.

1241
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 1: He wants to hack it up and sell it to

1242
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 1: the highest bidders for parts. He's looking at increasing his

1243
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 1: wealth only as his motivation to hold that office. And

1244
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 1: and you know, he constantly lies to the American people

1245
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: and says his family has lost so much money when

1246
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: we know for a fact that just Jared Kushner and

1247
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 1: Ivanka of money we can trace. We know that since

1248
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 1: they they got into the White House with President Trump,

1249
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 1: they've made upwards of three five million dollars in profit

1250
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 1: um in three and a half years. And again that's

1251
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 1: the money we can trace. Uh. There, you know, President

1252
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: Trump's golf trips have cost the America can taxpayers upwards

1253
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 1: of a hundred and forty five million dollars. And that's

1254
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 1: money we're spending it his golf courses and his you know,

1255
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:12,439
Speaker 1: on his airplane and these things. So it's it's really

1256
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 1: a kind of surreal that we're not getting honest about

1257
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 1: what's at stake. And I wonder, how do you think,

1258
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 1: as a thought leader, as a service member, how do

1259
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 1: you think we can get through to people to see

1260
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 1: that kind of danger, to see, as you said, that

1261
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 1: we're beginning to fall from the inside as a republic,

1262
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: that we are the greatest enemies to our own democracy

1263
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: right now. Is there is there a message that you

1264
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 1: think is really getting through to people. You know, I'd

1265
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 1: love to be aspirational and say, Sophia absolutely right, that

1266
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 1: there's this message or two messages that we can really,

1267
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 1: you know, find a way to make it more widespread,

1268
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 1: and that's gonna change a lot of people's perceptions. And

1269
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 1: one of the most telling statistics that came out from

1270
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 1: the first debate, the first presidential debate was that UM,

1271
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 1: there was broad agreement that most people were displeased with

1272
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: what they saw. They thought it was it was a

1273
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: sad state of affairs for America. The other one was

1274
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 1: a said that nothing they saw changed their mind, said

1275
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 1: that yes it would, UM telling Lee of the two

1276
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: percent that said that they would change how they're going

1277
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 1: to vote, they went from Trump to Biden. But one

1278
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: of the things, you know, getting back to just there's

1279
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: such an importance about what right looks like UM leadership

1280
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 1: by example. And so when you had President Obama in office,

1281
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 1: there were there were certainly millions, if not tens of

1282
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 1: millions of people who disagreed with his policies or with

1283
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 1: his administration's policies. But you know what, I don't think

1284
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: anybody can look back and say that guy was not presidential.

1285
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: He was very presidential. President George W. Bush during the

1286
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: eleven period of time. I mean, it had to seize

1287
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 1: the moment and serve as an example for the rest

1288
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 1: of the nation. And I think was a good example

1289
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 1: of how you could at least pull people together in

1290
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 1: unity and say that we're going to get through this

1291
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 1: together as one country. And you know, one of the

1292
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 1: things when we were talking about whether it's Ivanka and

1293
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 1: Jared or whether it's the president himself, something that I

1294
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 1: always appreciated with my own military background, but certainly, and

1295
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 1: I saw this in a very very stark and real

1296
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 1: way with Secretary Maddis, is this concept that as a leader,

1297
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:31,640
Speaker 1: you have to avoid the appearance of impropriety, right, so,

1298
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:33,560
Speaker 1: sure you can get close to the line on the

1299
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:36,600
Speaker 1: legal or ethical matter, you could maybe even you know,

1300
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: put your toe ups that line now and again, as

1301
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: long as you don't break the law, that's not the point.

1302
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 1: The point is as a leader, you're setting the tone

1303
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 1: for your organization, in this case, for the country. You

1304
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 1: eat far away from Neline as you can. So why

1305
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 1: would you put yourself in such a bad situation? To

1306
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: your point, um, having you know military members compelled to

1307
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:57,160
Speaker 1: stay at his hotels when they travel, why would you

1308
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: even accept foreign leaders staying in your hotel, Which starts

1309
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 1: bringing in questions about the molument's clause. I mean, there's

1310
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,759
Speaker 1: just all these issues that have been brought about because

1311
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 1: of bad decision making. And again, we'd be in a

1312
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: completely different place, I believe, much more focused on the

1313
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: issues at hand, What do we want, what do we

1314
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: care about? For policies if the president himself had had

1315
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 1: made one better decisions and then too made sure that

1316
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: those decisions were embraced by those in its cabinet and beyond.

1317
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 1: So again, that's just a fundamental tenet of leadership that

1318
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:30,439
Speaker 1: we're not seeing right now. And so I don't know

1319
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: that there's any compelling argument you can make. I have worked,

1320
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: you know, not only is it kind of a strategist,

1321
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 1: but also someone with a background in strategic communications. I have.

1322
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 1: I have sought to have conversations with family members and others,

1323
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 1: like I'm sure we all have with people who have

1324
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 1: very strongly held ideological views, and we're we really are

1325
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: just kind of a phase where um, I believe what

1326
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 1: I believe and no one will shake that um. And

1327
01:09:56,960 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: one thing that does play into this, and regardless of

1328
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:00,680
Speaker 1: where you fall in that's out of the aisle, is

1329
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:05,680
Speaker 1: that media. It's challenging because it has become like a

1330
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: mix of news and entertainment. And I do think that

1331
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 1: there are some you know, I guess the better way

1332
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 1: to put that is that, you know, everyone should realize

1333
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:18,719
Speaker 1: that if you you'll be better served if you seek

1334
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 1: out a wide variety of opinion. You know, don't pick

1335
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: one channel is your favorite channel and that's the only

1336
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 1: thing you'll ever watch, because then you're only simply getting

1337
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: one side of the story. So something that I've always

1338
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,560
Speaker 1: sought to do is whether I'm watching Fox News or

1339
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:35,760
Speaker 1: I'm watching MSNBC, CNN, NBC, etcetera. I mean, it's like,

1340
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 1: get a wide variety of opinions, cross check that about

1341
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 1: what you know to be true. You know, seek out facts,

1342
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 1: not just opinions. Um, all of that remains true. And

1343
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 1: and I'm my hope would be that as we get

1344
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 1: back to a situation in this country where you have

1345
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 1: fundamentally sound leaders running the country that Americans can have

1346
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 1: compare and contrast and maybe throw off, you know, that

1347
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 1: almost cult like style of leadership, you say, well, you know,

1348
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 1: I can't believe that I actually felt for that for

1349
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 1: four years? How How did that? How did that? How

1350
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 1: did we as a nation arrive at that place. But

1351
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 1: then how did I as an individual arrive at that spot?

1352
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 1: And you can say, look, now we've got some really

1353
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 1: great leaders. Let's get let's get back to the governance

1354
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:18,640
Speaker 1: of the country and get away from all this distraction.

1355
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 1: I would like to ask, you know, in terms of

1356
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 1: distraction and disrespect for the office, something that I imagined

1357
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:29,720
Speaker 1: felt very personal to you, because it's sure as hell

1358
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,680
Speaker 1: felt personal to me. And I've only ever existed in

1359
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 1: military spaces as a as a support, you know, doing

1360
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: USO tours and the like. But for you, having held

1361
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 1: such high office in the United States military, I can't

1362
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 1: fathom what it must have been like to have heard

1363
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 1: the reports that President Trump called veterans suckers and losers,

1364
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,560
Speaker 1: that he wanted to have military parades, but not with

1365
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 1: anyone who had been disfigured in the military, because, in

1366
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: his words, people don't like to see that. To to

1367
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: to think about the way he so publicly and viciously

1368
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:21,320
Speaker 1: made fun of a disabled reporter, that doesn't shock me

1369
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 1: to know the way that he's spoken about his own citizens.

1370
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised that he thinks of the people who

1371
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 1: he is the commander in chief of being suckers and losers.

1372
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm upset about it, but I really want to know

1373
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 1: how that felt. As a person who served. What is

1374
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 1: it like to reckon with the commander in chief speaking

1375
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 1: about his own service members that way? Well? Look, I mean,

1376
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 1: you've had so many millions of men and women who

1377
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 1: have dedicated some portion of their lives to serving their

1378
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: nation and uniform or even as a civilian in the military, right,

1379
01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:59,799
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's also millions of civilians who have served,

1380
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: um to make this country better. And you're right, you know,

1381
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 1: when you hear reports of the commander in chief saying

1382
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 1: things with such disdain, um, I think it's it's twofold, right.

1383
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: Not only does it diminish the sacrifices that they and

1384
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: not only just done, but their families have made. I mean,

1385
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 1: I would tell you I had a blast in two decades.

1386
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: I got to fly fighter jets for the United States Navy, right,

1387
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 1: I mean I'm flying off an aircraft carrier. I'm a

1388
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 1: top gun instructor. That's a blast. My family, however, had

1389
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: to deal with family separations of six d eight months.

1390
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 1: You know, we hear these stories all the time about

1391
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 1: you know, people who will go back to Afghanistan or

1392
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 1: a rock on a continual basis because they care so

1393
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:42,760
Speaker 1: deeply they want to be in a position to make

1394
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 1: a difference for America. And so if you hear about

1395
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:50,920
Speaker 1: your commander in chief undercutting your service, um, that's tragic.

1396
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 1: I think what's even more tragic about those stories is

1397
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 1: the fact that across the board people can kind of

1398
01:13:58,280 --> 01:13:59,760
Speaker 1: they just kind of shrug and say, yeah, that sounds

1399
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: exact like something he would say. Right. So again, as

1400
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 1: a leader, why you would ever put yourself in that

1401
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: situation where the way you behave the way you conduct

1402
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 1: yourself such that something like this coming out and everyone goes, yeah,

1403
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 1: that sounds about right. Um it just again it's just

1404
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,680
Speaker 1: in some respects words failing that that you could have

1405
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 1: someone who is leading our country who would not seek

1406
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 1: to be you know, even as Ronald Reagan put it,

1407
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 1: right like that shiny beacon on the hill. And whether

1408
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:27,160
Speaker 1: we're talking about America as a country or his role

1409
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 1: as president United States, you know, once again, I mean

1410
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:34,639
Speaker 1: public service as a public trust. And if you find

1411
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 1: yourself in a position where you're either appointed to serve

1412
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 1: in the U. S. Government or you've run for election

1413
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 1: and now you're actually elected to office. It's a public trust.

1414
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 1: You You have a responsibility to the men and women

1415
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,560
Speaker 1: in America that you represent, that you lead, you know,

1416
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 1: even if that's not your normal state of being. I mean,

1417
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:55,000
Speaker 1: pulled together for for a few years and and be

1418
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 1: your very best self, because not only are you leading people,

1419
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 1: but you also got young the younger generation of public

1420
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:05,560
Speaker 1: servants who are watching to see what's acceptable and unacceptable.

1421
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 1: I've got my children, you know. I was incredibly proud

1422
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:09,960
Speaker 1: to have all three of my children who are fairly young,

1423
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 1: right the oldest of thirteen, and my daughter is about

1424
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 1: to turn nine, and absolutely watch this first debate. Now

1425
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 1: I think nine said. I kind of wish they hadn't

1426
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:21,479
Speaker 1: seen it, but I mean it was important to me

1427
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:24,839
Speaker 1: because we aren't such a you know, a very fractious

1428
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 1: part of this country right now. This is democracy at work,

1429
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:31,600
Speaker 1: and it's just so important that we get everyone engaged,

1430
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: not only for this election cycle, but in cycles moving forward.

1431
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 1: So I don't know about you, I want to talk

1432
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:43,600
Speaker 1: about more about fighter jets and fun stuff. I know,

1433
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 1: that's what I was going to say. It won't it

1434
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 1: be nice when we can go back to talking about

1435
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:50,760
Speaker 1: things that are exciting, you know, hopefully in in in

1436
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:53,560
Speaker 1: a month we'll we'll write the ship. But that is

1437
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 1: something I do want to talk about, and you know,

1438
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 1: we've we've certainly got it in the interview from from

1439
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 1: the first half, but in in the interim between when

1440
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:07,839
Speaker 1: we last spoke and and us speaking today, you mentioned

1441
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 1: that you published your second book, Top Guns, Top ten

1442
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:15,760
Speaker 1: Leadership Lessons from the Cockpit. I love this. I want

1443
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 1: to know about it. I want I do want to have,

1444
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, some of the sort of bright and shiny

1445
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 1: and fun and exciting conversations, you know, not not just

1446
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:28,640
Speaker 1: talking about how how stressed we are and what it

1447
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 1: feels like to watch our republic implode. So of all

1448
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 1: the reviews that I read, one really stood out to

1449
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 1: be somebody called it the leadership version of chicken Soup

1450
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 1: for the Soul, which I loved. What a does that

1451
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 1: feel accurate and be with all of this incredible hostility

1452
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 1: that we've been discussing that has brought with it? Was

1453
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:52,680
Speaker 1: your hope in writing this book to put some positivity

1454
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 1: in the world, to remind people of what leadership can

1455
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 1: look like, to you know, to give us a north

1456
01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 1: star in a dark time. Oh absolutely. In fact, I

1457
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 1: had seen that review as well, and I loved it. Right, Um,

1458
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 1: I loved it for a couple of reasons. One, it

1459
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 1: meant that that it's a book that's an easy read,

1460
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 1: It's relatable, right. My intent was not to write a

1461
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:16,920
Speaker 1: book about fighter pilots for other fighter pilots. I think

1462
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:19,679
Speaker 1: that that would have been um, kind of a waste

1463
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 1: of time in fact, you know, but I do think

1464
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 1: that when so one of the things I loved about

1465
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 1: my military experience is that you are you're You're given

1466
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 1: a point of entry to meeting you know, tens of

1467
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:34,080
Speaker 1: thousands of just really cool people, right, and you yourself,

1468
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 1: of course. I mean you've traveled the world, You've been

1469
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:38,680
Speaker 1: involved with tons of projects, and every time you do

1470
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:42,360
Speaker 1: one of these, when you when you have that expanded

1471
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 1: ability to really meet a lot of a wide variety

1472
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 1: of people, I mean, they've all got something to teach, right,

1473
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:51,560
Speaker 1: And so that's what was fun about this project was

1474
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:54,960
Speaker 1: not only to share some just really fun stories about

1475
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:57,000
Speaker 1: what it's like to be a top gun instructor what

1476
01:17:57,120 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 1: it's like to fly a high performance aircraft. It's also

1477
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 1: really a kind of a secret way to say look,

1478
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:03,479
Speaker 1: I mean across all these thousands of men and women

1479
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 1: who are truly amazing at their job. I took the

1480
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:09,680
Speaker 1: best traits that I learned along the way, and I

1481
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:12,920
Speaker 1: condensed it into something that you know, your high school student,

1482
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 1: your college student, your you know, young career individual could

1483
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:19,600
Speaker 1: could benefit from and could enjoy. Right, And that's I

1484
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 1: think the best secret sauces when you can take you know,

1485
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 1: whether it's leadership lessons or any kind of lessons, but

1486
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: you can wrap them with something that's a lot of

1487
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 1: fun to be a part of. Um, people are gonna

1488
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 1: be more compelled to want to pick it up and

1489
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:33,640
Speaker 1: read it. And and I'll give all credit to the

1490
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 1: publishers that did a phenomenal job with the cover. I

1491
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 1: love just when you pick it up how it looks.

1492
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 1: So but you're right, Um, this was a lot of

1493
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:42,840
Speaker 1: fun to write. Um. I love the fact that there

1494
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 1: we're fixated right now on some pretty extreme negativity in

1495
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 1: the country, and I think rightfully, so we have to

1496
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: figure how we're going to chart a path forward. But

1497
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 1: at the same time, for for most men and women

1498
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:57,000
Speaker 1: in this country, they are concerned about their families, are

1499
01:18:57,040 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 1: concerned about their livelihoods, uh. And I think this is

1500
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 1: why this project was a lot of fun, because this

1501
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:04,160
Speaker 1: is the style of book that I can either hand

1502
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 1: to my thirteen year old or a friend or a

1503
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:08,200
Speaker 1: coworker and say, hey, you're gonna get a lot out

1504
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:12,840
Speaker 1: of this. I really love that and it it does

1505
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 1: feel like the kind of inspiration that we all are

1506
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:21,120
Speaker 1: looking for right now. And yeah, as as I think

1507
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:25,439
Speaker 1: many of us who just think of your former line

1508
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:28,720
Speaker 1: of work is being so cool, it's exciting to think

1509
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 1: that we might be able to get in, you know,

1510
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 1: as you said, into the cockpit with you and and

1511
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 1: learn a little bit about what being in that zone

1512
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 1: of rarefied air taught you. I think again, it gets

1513
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 1: back to our overall theme about getting back, Like you said,

1514
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:47,640
Speaker 1: let's bring America back together, Like, let's get to a

1515
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:52,040
Speaker 1: point where there's the positivity, the candy spirit, the excitement

1516
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 1: of what's in front of us instead of just more

1517
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:57,120
Speaker 1: concerned about what the next month might bring, especially as

1518
01:19:57,120 --> 01:20:00,280
Speaker 1: we contemp like coronavirus and other you know, show to

1519
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:02,479
Speaker 1: the system that we still think or maybe just right

1520
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:05,120
Speaker 1: around the corner, especially with blue season. So when you

1521
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 1: think about um again, just being able to get back

1522
01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 1: to a place where we're absolutely having fun again. We're

1523
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 1: and then one thing I cannot wait to do for

1524
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 1: all three of my children I think they'll be old enough,

1525
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 1: is to take them to go see you know, Top

1526
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 1: Gun Maverick when it comes out next year. I mean,

1527
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:27,880
Speaker 1: the first movie when it was released in absolutely no pride, right.

1528
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's kind of cool to say that,

1529
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:31,800
Speaker 1: hey I never saw the movie or it didn't make

1530
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 1: a difference. It made a huge difference. I loved the movie.

1531
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:36,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a fighter pilot because of Tom

1532
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,360
Speaker 1: Cruise and the other actors in that first movie. And

1533
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:42,400
Speaker 1: I really hope, in the best sense, that there will

1534
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:44,080
Speaker 1: be millions of men and women who go to see

1535
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 1: the next movie and say that that's a cool line

1536
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:50,160
Speaker 1: of work, that it's something that you know, you're serving

1537
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: your country, you're having a blast while you're doing it,

1538
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 1: and you're gonna learn, right. I mean, if you told

1539
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 1: me when I was a kid growing up in North Texas, UM,

1540
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of really did have to ways

1541
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:02,000
Speaker 1: in front of me. I had one pathway to go

1542
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 1: to University of Texas and UM and go study computer science,

1543
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:08,240
Speaker 1: or I could go to the U s Naval Academy,

1544
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:10,640
Speaker 1: And because I joined the Navy and went to the

1545
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:12,599
Speaker 1: Naval Academy, I mean, that's what gave me a point

1546
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:14,519
Speaker 1: of entry to m I t that's what gave me

1547
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 1: a point of entry to live in Japan twice. The

1548
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 1: two of the world of secretary matters. I mean, it's

1549
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:21,760
Speaker 1: it really is such a great adventure. And so whether

1550
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 1: men and women's been you know, five years of their

1551
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:27,719
Speaker 1: lives or twenty years of their life serving their country,

1552
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:30,799
Speaker 1: I think it's it's a very altruistic pursuit. In addition,

1553
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 1: obviously to your book, which we all, I would imagine,

1554
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 1: are going to read, are there recommendations of other books

1555
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 1: or publications that you think or you know, to be

1556
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:50,760
Speaker 1: helpful in better understanding and sort of making sense of leadership,

1557
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: our political situation or institution, or or just to offer

1558
01:21:55,240 --> 01:22:01,120
Speaker 1: some hope. Yeah, man, what a great question. Um, Yes,

1559
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:04,960
Speaker 1: is the short answer. I'd have to give a little

1560
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:07,360
Speaker 1: bit more thought into which ones I would specifically recommend

1561
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:09,599
Speaker 1: to your audience, because frankly, there's so many really good

1562
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:12,160
Speaker 1: ones out there. I have found myself gravitating to kind

1563
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:16,160
Speaker 1: of two variations of books like that. I found myself um,

1564
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:18,800
Speaker 1: regardless of who the author is. I like reading a

1565
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:20,880
Speaker 1: lot of the contemporary history that is coming out of

1566
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:23,800
Speaker 1: the Trump administration. I know that the president will say, oh,

1567
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:25,560
Speaker 1: it's all fig news and it's it's made up. But

1568
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:27,320
Speaker 1: I mean I've I've known many of the people who

1569
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:29,720
Speaker 1: have written these books, and when I read it, it

1570
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:33,680
Speaker 1: accurately reflects the experience I had in this administration. So

1571
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,080
Speaker 1: I suspect that there's quite a bit of elements of truth.

1572
01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 1: So I think that that's important because it helps give

1573
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 1: you some facts based elements that you can make decisions on.

1574
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:45,240
Speaker 1: And if you get back just to a wider range

1575
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:47,320
Speaker 1: of leadership. Look, I mean there's great stuff out there,

1576
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:49,240
Speaker 1: and it could be maybe a little bit more of

1577
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:53,280
Speaker 1: the kind of nitty gritty like Stephen Covey, Um, you know,

1578
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:57,360
Speaker 1: there's just um yeah, across the board. I mean, there's

1579
01:22:57,400 --> 01:22:59,880
Speaker 1: just basically, I would say that the thing that would

1580
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:03,599
Speaker 1: to underline everything that you just asked is the importance

1581
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 1: is that you are reading. Right. I Mean, even my

1582
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 1: old boss, actually Mass had a great saying that is,

1583
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:11,360
Speaker 1: if you find yourself in a leadership role and you

1584
01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 1: haven't read hundreds of books by that point, you're functionally illiterate, right,

1585
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:18,800
Speaker 1: I mean books open a window. They provide a perspective

1586
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,920
Speaker 1: and a knowledge base that normally would take a lot

1587
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 1: of years to gain on your own. So I mean,

1588
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:25,840
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you know, go to

1589
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:29,640
Speaker 1: your local bookstore, find something to interest you and uh

1590
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:32,960
Speaker 1: and and dig in. Being a thought leader and a

1591
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 1: person with great influence coming from the background that you do.

1592
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:41,479
Speaker 1: If you could inspire one major change in the country

1593
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:46,559
Speaker 1: right now, whether it's politically or health wise, what would

1594
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:49,320
Speaker 1: that change be? I mean, look, at the end of

1595
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 1: the day, Um, the country will always be in a

1596
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 1: rough spot if we can't feel the divide that exists

1597
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 1: between both sides of the aisle. Um. And by that,

1598
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 1: I mean we have to rediscover our nation's fundamental friendliness.

1599
01:24:05,439 --> 01:24:09,840
Speaker 1: We have to find a pathway where you take you

1600
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:12,599
Speaker 1: kind of take the gas stow right and you take

1601
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 1: it off of a tin and you dialt back to

1602
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:18,320
Speaker 1: a one where sure we have disagreements, but I really

1603
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 1: want to find a pathway where you can have widely

1604
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:25,679
Speaker 1: different views. Right, if you can imagine a room full

1605
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:28,559
Speaker 1: of members from Black Lives Matter movement, you know, quote

1606
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 1: unquote Antifa, Proud Boys, whoever. But you can all come

1607
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 1: into that room and say, here, here's my organization. This

1608
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:36,599
Speaker 1: is why I believe what I believe. But I'd still

1609
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 1: like to hear about you and your organization. You know what,

1610
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:41,000
Speaker 1: what do you care about? Because as soon as you

1611
01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 1: put those walls up, and as soon as you believe

1612
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:46,760
Speaker 1: that that your beliefs are the only ones that matter, um,

1613
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 1: you create a situation within the country where we're now

1614
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:54,680
Speaker 1: focus more inwardly and we're less concerned about running the

1615
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:57,679
Speaker 1: country making life better for millions of men and women

1616
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:00,320
Speaker 1: around our own nation, let alone around the world. Right

1617
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:02,479
Speaker 1: And and we didn't really dive into it too much,

1618
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:05,840
Speaker 1: but that is something that has caught my ear, is

1619
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:08,679
Speaker 1: whether it's talking to members of like the Israeli embassy

1620
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 1: friends who I served with in Japan. You know, some

1621
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 1: of these different nations around the world unanimously. This isn't

1622
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 1: just they don't care too much about American politics. What

1623
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:20,040
Speaker 1: they do care about is whether or not America is

1624
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 1: seen as being there for them. Is America still on

1625
01:25:23,080 --> 01:25:26,879
Speaker 1: that leadership role In to a person, they've all expressed

1626
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 1: concern that America is no longer the guiding light for

1627
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:33,760
Speaker 1: the world. Let alone the partner of choice, because they

1628
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:36,280
Speaker 1: just started. They're starting to see that they can't trust us,

1629
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:38,720
Speaker 1: and I think that there's a lot of concern there

1630
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 1: and I think to you know, should Vice President Biden

1631
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 1: win this election, I think President Trump should at least

1632
01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:49,000
Speaker 1: still somewhat good knowing that you have a statesman coming

1633
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:52,240
Speaker 1: back into office, someone who his first order of business

1634
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:54,759
Speaker 1: won't be to sign executive orders simply trying to undercut

1635
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:58,000
Speaker 1: everything the previous president did. Um. You have to find

1636
01:25:58,080 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: consistency as a nation. You have to be able to

1637
01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:04,040
Speaker 1: be steadfast and even if you have policy differences, still

1638
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:07,720
Speaker 1: be a nation that others want to partner with. Yeah,

1639
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:11,040
Speaker 1: it comes back to that idea of compromise for the

1640
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 1: good of the citizen. Re really absolutely, that is an

1641
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:23,000
Speaker 1: energy that I miss a lot. Yeah, you know, it's

1642
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:25,400
Speaker 1: so funny, and it's so funny that it's only been

1643
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:27,880
Speaker 1: you know, it hasn't been that long since we had it. Um.

1644
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:30,120
Speaker 1: One of the programs I had competed for when I

1645
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:32,599
Speaker 1: was in the military, it's called the White House Fellowship Program,

1646
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:35,479
Speaker 1: and in fact, Michelle Kawan was one of the I mean,

1647
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 1: it was it was awesome, and that's some great people.

1648
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:40,679
Speaker 1: But you had a former Senate Majority Leader Tom Dashell,

1649
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:42,640
Speaker 1: you had some other you know, on both sides of

1650
01:26:42,680 --> 01:26:46,680
Speaker 1: the aisle, both Republican and Democratic members of Congress who

1651
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: were in the room, and they and they were regaling

1652
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 1: us with these stories. Is back in I guess two

1653
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 1: thousand thirteen rights towards the talent of Obama's administration, and

1654
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:57,519
Speaker 1: they were dealing us with these stories about how um,

1655
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: they you know, had fundamental divides in their east, but

1656
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 1: they're still able to come together to compromise, like you

1657
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:05,519
Speaker 1: just said, um to do what was best for the nation.

1658
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 1: So I think, you know that's that's kind of if

1659
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:09,680
Speaker 1: you had to put that bumper stick on it, I

1660
01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:13,600
Speaker 1: would absolutely say, you know, country before party, And I

1661
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:15,519
Speaker 1: know that that's tough for some people to swallow. But

1662
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:18,160
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I mean, you could

1663
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:21,080
Speaker 1: you could fixate on your parties and run this country

1664
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:23,800
Speaker 1: into the ground pretty quick. You still have to be

1665
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:25,960
Speaker 1: able to come together as a nation at the end

1666
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,640
Speaker 1: of the day. We always wrap up the show with

1667
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:31,839
Speaker 1: a final question. That's my favorite thing to ask everyone.

1668
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:35,320
Speaker 1: When you think about the idea of a work in progress,

1669
01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:38,880
Speaker 1: what comes to mind in your life right now, whether

1670
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:43,080
Speaker 1: it's professional or personal. What what are you what are

1671
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 1: you tinkering on to to push forward? Yeah, it's such

1672
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:48,599
Speaker 1: a great question. When you asked me that last time,

1673
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:51,920
Speaker 1: I remember sharing quite openly. I was like, look, I

1674
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 1: mean as a father, I was a work in progress. Um.

1675
01:27:55,240 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 1: I was reintegrating with my family after years of separation,

1676
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:01,200
Speaker 1: being physically absent. See. And I think we've made some

1677
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:03,800
Speaker 1: really tremendous strides now that we've had that stability over

1678
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:06,160
Speaker 1: the last couple of years. I would say, I think

1679
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:08,599
Speaker 1: I'm actually with with the family in a great spot.

1680
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:11,200
Speaker 1: I'm kind of turning back more to what do I

1681
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 1: want to be when I grow up? Right? I mean,

1682
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:15,320
Speaker 1: as a as a fighter pilot, you're kind of like

1683
01:28:15,400 --> 01:28:17,720
Speaker 1: a kid. You know, You're you're living your dream, You're

1684
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:20,120
Speaker 1: doing all these fun things, and you're working with great people.

1685
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 1: And so this is my first foray into kind of

1686
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:27,640
Speaker 1: the greater world. And and just you know, there are

1687
01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:30,200
Speaker 1: so many great jobs, so many great people you could

1688
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:32,680
Speaker 1: potentially work with. So it's kind of tough to figure out,

1689
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:34,880
Speaker 1: like what do I really want to make my next

1690
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 1: big second act to be? UM? And so do I

1691
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:40,160
Speaker 1: continue to write books and do stuff in the public

1692
01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:43,400
Speaker 1: sphere or do I focus on you know, business for

1693
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:45,600
Speaker 1: a while. I think that's for me, what's going to

1694
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:47,280
Speaker 1: be the big work in progress for the next year

1695
01:28:47,360 --> 01:28:51,479
Speaker 1: or so? Very cool. Well, I hope that we at

1696
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:55,680
Speaker 1: least have an excellent election outcome and we can all

1697
01:28:55,760 --> 01:29:00,560
Speaker 1: get back to figuring out how to move forward and

1698
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 1: not not just try to put fires out. Yeah. Look,

1699
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:07,000
Speaker 1: I mean I think we're I can tell in you

1700
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:10,559
Speaker 1: as well. We're fundamental optimist, right. Uh. And I think

1701
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:12,920
Speaker 1: that that's one beautiful thing about being a student of

1702
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 1: history is that you realize our nation has been here before. Uh.

1703
01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 1: This is a particularly rough spot in the road, but

1704
01:29:20,439 --> 01:29:23,920
Speaker 1: we have faced adversity before. We've overcome it when you

1705
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:26,360
Speaker 1: think about the divisions kind of in the late sixties

1706
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:29,800
Speaker 1: and early seventies with Vietnam and the cultural revolution um

1707
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:33,080
Speaker 1: that led to some great advances in the eighties, nineties

1708
01:29:33,120 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 1: and even into the two thousand's. Right. So, um, the

1709
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:40,080
Speaker 1: trick really isn't that, it's when you face adversity, how

1710
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:41,599
Speaker 1: do you deal with it? How do you spring back?

1711
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:46,320
Speaker 1: And so that's you know, our nation will always face difficulties,

1712
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:48,600
Speaker 1: but can we pull together like we've discussed, and so

1713
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to seeing that happen. Me too,

1714
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 1: Me too, And I'm honored to know you. I'm I'm

1715
01:29:56,560 --> 01:30:04,560
Speaker 1: glad that we're on the same team and onward. Absolutely,

1716
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:06,640
Speaker 1: thanks Sophie, it's always great setting with you. Thank you

1717
01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:12,640
Speaker 1: so much, such a pleasure, Really whip smarties. It's no

1718
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:16,320
Speaker 1: secret to any of you that this is an election year,

1719
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:20,680
Speaker 1: and as we've talked about on this podcast, elections are

1720
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:25,080
Speaker 1: first of all, incredibly important to participate in. Second of all,

1721
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:28,840
Speaker 1: basically make you feel like an intellectual superhero, and third

1722
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:32,720
Speaker 1: of all can be kind of complicated. One of the

1723
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:36,600
Speaker 1: things we've discussed on this podcast is what voter suppression

1724
01:30:36,680 --> 01:30:39,559
Speaker 1: looks like today, and that's why I want to talk

1725
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:42,479
Speaker 1: to you guys about I am a Voter. It is

1726
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:45,559
Speaker 1: a civic engagement organization that I helped to co found.

1727
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:51,200
Speaker 1: It is nonpartisan, it is incredibly easy to access, and

1728
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:53,320
Speaker 1: one of the things we're trying to do is make

1729
01:30:53,400 --> 01:30:55,920
Speaker 1: sure that first time voters have all the information they

1730
01:30:56,000 --> 01:31:01,040
Speaker 1: need and everyone who believes they're already register stirred isn't

1731
01:31:01,080 --> 01:31:03,240
Speaker 1: going to wind up finding out they've been purged from

1732
01:31:03,240 --> 01:31:05,439
Speaker 1: the voter rolls when they get to the voting booth.

1733
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:08,639
Speaker 1: So whether you're a first time voter or a long

1734
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:11,880
Speaker 1: time voter, let's make sure you're registered and have all

1735
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:15,800
Speaker 1: the resources you need to do that. We created the

1736
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:21,080
Speaker 1: easiest ever textline for you. Text the word voter v

1737
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:25,799
Speaker 1: O t E R voter two to six seven nine seven.

1738
01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:28,799
Speaker 1: We can get you registered to vote in under two minutes.

1739
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:32,160
Speaker 1: Check your registration, make sure you know where you're polling

1740
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:35,240
Speaker 1: place is because sometimes they change and give you any

1741
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:39,320
Speaker 1: other information that you need. So again that's I am

1742
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:43,040
Speaker 1: a voter, and just text the word voter to six

1743
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:49,800
Speaker 1: seven nine se. This show is executive produced by me

1744
01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:54,719
Speaker 1: Sophia Bush and sim Sarna. Our associate producer is Caate Linley.

1745
01:31:55,360 --> 01:31:58,479
Speaker 1: Our editor is Josh Wendish, and our music was written

1746
01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:01,720
Speaker 1: by Jack Garrett and produced by Mark Foster. This show

1747
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:04,760
Speaker 1: is brought to you by a brilliant anatomy. M h

1748
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:08,520
Speaker 1: m hmmmmmmm