Speaker 1: Crime. Hello, we one, and welcome back to another episode
Speaker 1: of Real Time Crime. I'm your host Leo Lamar and
Speaker 1: I have with me sometimes now oftentimes Dmitri. Hello, oftentimes Dmitri.
Speaker 1: I'm in paradise. I know you are. And this is
Speaker 1: the first time we're doing this podcast, like all the
Speaker 1: way around the world. It's nine pm here, and I
Speaker 1: will say that it doesn't make it any easier the
Speaker 1: later it gets for me, and it doesn't make it
Speaker 1: any easier the earlier we do this for me, So
Speaker 1: it's never easy for me. That was the whole reason
Speaker 1: we sent you over there was because we're like, we
Speaker 1: could do the podcast a regular time, but it'll be
Speaker 1: nighttime for her. It'll be perfect and Leo will finally
Speaker 1: be awake. Well, let me tell you, I could sleep
Speaker 1: as late as you will let me. Oh boy. And
Speaker 1: I'm in a eza in case anyone who's interested, No,
Speaker 1: I won't say Abitha because apparently that's not actually how
Speaker 1: you're supposed to say it. It annoys me anyway, so yeah,
Speaker 1: and mostly because it annoys Dmitri. Today we will be
Speaker 1: discussing a couple of hot topics, some of your favorite
Speaker 1: I's only got a sexphone operator right now. I don't
Speaker 1: know what they sound like, but sure, sure, sure, sure
Speaker 1: how much it's twenty dollars per minute. So of course
Speaker 1: we've got two amazing guests for you today, and we'll
Speaker 1: be talking about The Big Con, which airs on Apple
Speaker 1: TV Plus and on Apple Podcasts May six. So get
Speaker 1: excited because we've got guests who are gonna be speaking
Speaker 1: to the nature of that show and the podcast. Our
Speaker 1: first guest today is James Lee Hernandez. He's a multi
Speaker 1: Emmy and pg A Award nominated filmmaker and critically acclaimed podcaster.
Speaker 1: He recently directed, wrote, and edited the five time Emmy
Speaker 1: nominated HBO origin old documentary series mcmillions with his creative
Speaker 1: partner Brian Lazarte, who will be meeting next Hernandez executive
Speaker 1: produced the series with Mark Wahlberg, Stephen Levinson, Archie Gibbs,
Speaker 1: and Lazarte. Hernandez as a founding partner of fund Meter,
Speaker 1: a TV and film production company specializing in Stranger than Fiction,
Speaker 1: scripted and unscripted content. Recently announced, Hernandez and Lazarte are writing, directing,
Speaker 1: an executive producing two documentary series for Apple TV Plus
Speaker 1: through fund Meter, The Big Con, and The Jet. Both
Speaker 1: shows are slated to be released in two and then
Speaker 1: we have Brian Lazarte. He's an Emmy nominated filmmaker and editor.
Speaker 1: His credits include a variety of award winning documentaries and series,
Speaker 1: most notably mcmillions for HBO, which he wrote, directed, executive produced,
Speaker 1: and edited alongside James Lee Hernandez. His four part Apple
Speaker 1: TV Plus original docs series The Big Con and Apple
Speaker 1: TV Plus original documentary series The Jet will be available
Speaker 1: to stream this year. Some other credits may include Katie
Speaker 1: Perry part of Me three d a, HBO's Emmy Award
Speaker 1: winning Sonic Highways, fed Up at ESPN's Emmy Award winning
Speaker 1: Hawaiian The Legend of Eddie Aku, thirty for thirty. I mean,
Speaker 1: the list goes on and on, and we are so
Speaker 1: excited to be speaking with them today about their new show,
Speaker 1: The Big Con, which is a four part Apple TV
Speaker 1: Plus documentary series with a companion podcast about Eric c.
Speaker 1: kN hilarious that his last name is Con when he's
Speaker 1: a con man. Yeah, I mean, it's hilarious who defrauded
Speaker 1: the government and taxpayers over half a billion dollars. Former
Speaker 1: Eastern Kentucky attorney Eric S. Kon is known for committing
Speaker 1: the largest social Security fraud case in history. The Big
Speaker 1: Con examines his larger than life story, the people he defrauded,
Speaker 1: and his inevitable run from the law. The trailer described
Speaker 1: Cohn as one of the biggest lawyers in Appalachia and
Speaker 1: his celebrity was unavoidable. He used his riches to attract
Speaker 1: porn stars, throw out rageous parties, and open to Halloween
Speaker 1: themed brothel. My kind of guy. He had ventually caught
Speaker 1: the eye of law enforcement after defrauding taxpayers in the
Speaker 1: United States. Out of mill subscribers can watch the four
Speaker 1: part documentary series and Apple TV Plus, and anyone can
Speaker 1: listen to The Companion Show on Apple Podcast when both
Speaker 1: premiere on May six. M HM, Hi James and Brian,
Speaker 1: So nice to meet you. Hello, nice to meet you
Speaker 1: as well, and Leeah. I don't usually record from what
Speaker 1: looks like the inside of an insane asylum, but I
Speaker 1: am in a BISA, not to brag, and I'm this
Speaker 1: is the only location that has WiFi. There's no five
Speaker 1: G on this island. I mean, nothing works here and
Speaker 1: yet I have three bars of service here. So this
Speaker 1: is the room that I'm podcasting in today. I don't
Speaker 1: want to tell her that her regular apartment looks more
Speaker 1: like an insane asylum than her hotel room. But well,
Speaker 1: he's not wrong that that actually that journey took me
Speaker 1: all over the place. One I was going to think
Speaker 1: that you actually were insane asylum, and I learned her.
Speaker 1: And now I'm a little upset that we're not at
Speaker 1: some party with you right now on the beach. So
Speaker 1: I'll deal. Well, I do have three brain cells left,
Speaker 1: so I will end up in an insane asylum. Comes
Speaker 1: full circle really at our our l A premiere last
Speaker 1: night and we're up a little late, so we thanks
Speaker 1: for the invite, guys, not that I could have made it,
Speaker 1: just you know, wanted to be invited so I could say, no,
Speaker 1: I'm in a pizza. Yeah, understandable. Just so you know,
Speaker 1: I gave you both very big intros with all of
Speaker 1: your credits right before this, so just so yeah, so
Speaker 1: just yeah, And that's the show, ladies and gentlemen, So
Speaker 1: just pretend that you feel really loved by us and
Speaker 1: respected if that's okay, Yeah, that easy. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: show business, baby, So we already told people a little
Speaker 1: bit about the big Con and we're very excited for
Speaker 1: your new series and the Companion podcast. So now we've
Speaker 1: got a ton of questions for you to hit us gently.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not Will Smith, you know, yeah, true,
Speaker 1: he was. He was bobbing and leaving. You know, he's
Speaker 1: doing great. I mean the most notable hit now is
Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle last night, and then Chris Rock came on
Speaker 1: and said, was that you Will Smith? You guys heard
Speaker 1: about this? I'm sure yes. I mean as a comedian,
Speaker 1: I find this terrifying. Terrifying. It is like that's the
Speaker 1: that's like the terrible thing about this is that now
Speaker 1: that's all of a sudden like normalizes something insane like
Speaker 1: that happening, which it absolutely should not be. And hopefully
Speaker 1: it goes back to the seventies, eighties and nineties of
Speaker 1: the Academy Awards next year where there's some insanely large
Speaker 1: stage that people tripped all over themselves. I also missed
Speaker 1: just seeing those videos in general. But yeah, that's just
Speaker 1: very unfortunate and like nobody should have to deal with that. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: there's been some sort of opening where even the NBA
Speaker 1: playoffs now people are like storming the courts. It seems,
Speaker 1: you know, more at a rapid pace and more frequently
Speaker 1: people are running on and interrupting things. And I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously it's got to have something to do with with
Speaker 1: a notoriety and that's TikTok and this and that. But
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's it's kind of insane. I think
Speaker 1: you think this is going to be the norm. So
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm pretending for a moment that like this
Speaker 1: is just a fluke, uh that we're experiencing at the moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that reality TV has become so rampant that
Speaker 1: it's blending so much with society where people feel like
Speaker 1: they have to do all of these crazy things to
Speaker 1: get noticed, you know, TikTok, reality television and and it's
Speaker 1: everyone's just one upping each other constantly. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that these are challenges, so to speak, but I
Speaker 1: do think society has become unrealistic with what people can
Speaker 1: and cannot do. You know, there's no proper morals anymore.
Speaker 1: And wanted to talk about but right up your guy's
Speaker 1: alley though, like the Tinder swindler, right, he he swindled
Speaker 1: people out of all this money and so what happened?
Speaker 1: They're like, Oh, he's gonna get his own TV show,
Speaker 1: So why would these people see consequences accept the potential
Speaker 1: upside to doing stuff like that. Speaking of ch if
Speaker 1: you guys could check your pockets, I've already stolen your
Speaker 1: identities and your money. But thank you so much. I
Speaker 1: hope to get a TV deal out of this. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that is a really fascinating thing as you
Speaker 1: start to look at as true crime has gotten more
Speaker 1: and more popular and really what has now been deemed
Speaker 1: true cons uh, it almost feels like, in a certain sense,
Speaker 1: there's the annadel v level of know how she achieved
Speaker 1: what she wanted to achieve. Her whole thing was wanting
Speaker 1: to be famous and recognized and be this whole hous thing.
Speaker 1: There is an entire TV show, scripted TV show on
Speaker 1: Netflix about her, and she won. It's it's like the
Speaker 1: end of the movie seven, Like, even though you think
Speaker 1: that person lost, they actually did achieve the thing they wanted.
Speaker 1: It's true. And as someone who's in ABISA getting a
Speaker 1: v I P experience and not taking any of the
Speaker 1: g A routes, I will say v I P is
Speaker 1: always better. Thanks for the continuing to rub that in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like we should do a shot every time
Speaker 1: she mentioned we didn't get wasn't coming through yet. I
Speaker 1: don't know what's happening, and Adelvia and Adelvie keeps winning. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you guys just really quickly right from millions to
Speaker 1: the big Con. What led you to your fascination with
Speaker 1: con artists and swindlers to begin with? I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's necessarily were attracted to con artists
Speaker 1: or swindlers. I think we're just I am sorry what
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's quite the dating. Well, the
Speaker 1: the the attractive component of mcmillions was that this happened,
Speaker 1: you know, in the in the nineties when all of
Speaker 1: us were playing this crazy game, right, um, And so
Speaker 1: it's pulling back the curtain at like what was happening
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, and it's incredible fraud story. And at
Speaker 1: the helm of it was this uh as con artists,
Speaker 1: right And in this case, because our main character is
Speaker 1: named con Uh, there is certainly a natural attraction to
Speaker 1: this person. But after doing a fraud story like mcmillians,
Speaker 1: like we weren't we weren't really thinking, Hey, our next
Speaker 1: project is going to be necessarily a fraud story, and
Speaker 1: and if we did it, how can we do it different?
Speaker 1: What's something that we hadn't really tapped into in this
Speaker 1: type of genre. And one of the things that we
Speaker 1: didn't have with mcmillions was Jerry Jacobson, who was the
Speaker 1: you know, the main person right at the helm. We
Speaker 1: had everyone else talking about him, and the series really
Speaker 1: didn't suffer. We don't feel like for not having them,
Speaker 1: but for the big con we knew we wanted to
Speaker 1: hear from Eric himself and we he was actually one
Speaker 1: of the first people that we reach out to to
Speaker 1: really see if we could build his trust and if
Speaker 1: he could participate and how could we make that happen.
Speaker 1: And through that process, he revealed that he'd been writing
Speaker 1: kind of his life story. He shared it with us
Speaker 1: and it was like, you know, this insane, uh rose
Speaker 1: colored glasses view of his his life. It read like
Speaker 1: a movie. So uh, we knew that that was going
Speaker 1: to be an ingredient that would make this significantly different.
Speaker 1: But the stakes of this story are so much greater
Speaker 1: uh than mcmillions, And I think we were just captivated
Speaker 1: by the possibilities of where this story can go. No
Speaker 1: one had really done a deep dive on this before.
Speaker 1: But I mean this is insane. Obviously you go back
Speaker 1: to the guy's name is con right off the bat,
Speaker 1: maybe he's destined for this, but I mean he stole
Speaker 1: more than five fifty million and social security benefits. Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously we don't want to spoil the you know everyone's
Speaker 1: gonna watch it anyway, But how does it How do
Speaker 1: you go about something like does this? Does this? Did
Speaker 1: it trickle in? He's like, I'm gonna start with this
Speaker 1: and then just realized what a grand scheme it could
Speaker 1: be and just kept it kept snowballing in a sense, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he started out just as a regular attorney doing sales
Speaker 1: with security benefits and just in general and eastern Kentucky,
Speaker 1: the two main counties are Pike County and uh and
Speaker 1: Floyd County, and there two basically counties that are propped
Speaker 1: up completely by coal mining and and the eighties, seventies
Speaker 1: and eighties, Pike County had more millionaires per capita than
Speaker 1: any other county in the nation. Now it is one
Speaker 1: of the poorest counties in the nation because coal just
Speaker 1: is going away. It's really almost fully pulled out of
Speaker 1: the area. But part of that is coal mining is
Speaker 1: a very very difficult profession, and so you have a
Speaker 1: lot of younger people, specially young men that are in
Speaker 1: their forties and fifties, that are now just totally decimated
Speaker 1: by working in the coal industry. They can't work anymore,
Speaker 1: they can't stand, they can't really sit for long periods
Speaker 1: of time, and so they need to go on these
Speaker 1: benefits to help them for the rest of their lives.
Speaker 1: Eric saw this and also saw the opportunity that a
Speaker 1: lot of these people don't know lawyers. They don't they
Speaker 1: it's all word of mouth. They just well, you know,
Speaker 1: who did you like a friend and neighbor, who did
Speaker 1: you get your benefits from? Okay, I'm gonna go to
Speaker 1: that person. And so he bought out every billboard in
Speaker 1: the small town. He did all these crazy commercials. He
Speaker 1: bought out like almost every ad in the newspaper. They
Speaker 1: were doing radio ads, it's songs. He was really, as
Speaker 1: he referred to himself, a marketing genius in the sense
Speaker 1: that everybody then knew Eric con is the person you
Speaker 1: go to to get your benefits. And what they didn't
Speaker 1: understand is that behind the scenes, Eric was getting these
Speaker 1: rubber stamps to just put anybody on benefits because he
Speaker 1: had public officials and judges on the payroll. Wow, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's straight up mafia style, it is, and it's wild
Speaker 1: because it's not really that complex of a scheme. It's
Speaker 1: the the tried and true. You know, you scratch my back,
Speaker 1: I scratch yours. Um. But at the same time, it
Speaker 1: exposes this massive flaw in the system of social security
Speaker 1: because the reason, one of the reasons con was so
Speaker 1: successful is that he was getting people benefits in like
Speaker 1: two months. Normally people had to wait eighteen months to
Speaker 1: two years to get their benefits. And that is all
Speaker 1: because of the way social security works. It just takes
Speaker 1: so so long to get you approved to get these benefits.
Speaker 1: If the system worked better than things like this wouldn't happen.
Speaker 1: It seems to me, excuse me. The people that are
Speaker 1: best at this, whether it be the mcmillions or this um,
Speaker 1: they have to have two things. They have to be smart,
Speaker 1: right they have they have to be smart to pull
Speaker 1: this kind of thing off. But they have to just
Speaker 1: give zeros about anybody that they're affecting. I mean, right,
Speaker 1: they don't care about anybody else. Well. Eric C. Khan
Speaker 1: is one of the most fascinating complex characters. I think
Speaker 1: in a documentary series. Uh we when we non biased opinion,
Speaker 1: it's it's obviously can we start calling him Eric con artist? Please?
Speaker 1: I mean he just I think when people watch the
Speaker 1: documentary series, you're gonna go into it thinking you know
Speaker 1: who he is. Uh, and you're gonna have strong feelings
Speaker 1: about him, and then by the fourth episode, by the end,
Speaker 1: you might have a completely different feeling about him. Uh.
Speaker 1: And are you gonna make us like this guy? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Reasoning is he giving all the money to charity? I
Speaker 1: don't even I don't even think like that. I think
Speaker 1: it's more of a feeling that you might have. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you'll know how you'll feel. You
Speaker 1: you're just gonna feel different. Um. But you know when
Speaker 1: you talk about like what is it about these people?
Speaker 1: Is it narcissism? Is it greed? Uh? Is it the
Speaker 1: lack of shame? Right? Which you know it very well
Speaker 1: could be. Um, and that could be a superpower, right,
Speaker 1: Like I don't give him so I'm gonna all right,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Wow, he's been acting really strangely are
Speaker 1: we are we allowed to swear you haven't listened to
Speaker 1: the podcast, which is clear, but I mean, well, or
Speaker 1: you didn't listen to me thirty seconds ago I said,
Speaker 1: zero seconds ago. Or you haven't listened to any of
Speaker 1: my stand up. Yeah. No, just go on, guys, go ahead,
Speaker 1: please please feel free to curse. Feel free to curse,
Speaker 1: all right, But you know, at the at the point
Speaker 1: in which you learn about how crazy this crime is,
Speaker 1: right Eric, I mean, social security is not a stexy
Speaker 1: um like backdrop for a crime. And it's one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why he got away with it first so long,
Speaker 1: because people weren't paying attention or people just didn't understand it.
Speaker 1: And when you try to dig in, it's a little complicated.
Speaker 1: And so one of the things that we really worked
Speaker 1: hard at was find a way to really help people
Speaker 1: understand this in a really entertaining and fun way. And
Speaker 1: because there is a lot of humor, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, just quirky, uh, stranger than fiction components
Speaker 1: of the story. But there's also this great tragedy. I mean,
Speaker 1: when when Eric does this, you know, gets away with
Speaker 1: her for ten years, uh, when he finally gets busted,
Speaker 1: he goes on the run, and while he's on the run,
Speaker 1: this crazy thing happens in eastern Kentucky, uh, with everybody
Speaker 1: who was associated with him in one way or the other. Um.
Speaker 1: And it's part of the devastation of this story as well.
Speaker 1: I feel like we it's hard to follow up questions
Speaker 1: about that without giving away too much. It feels like true, yeah,
Speaker 1: well you know, Bob, and weave through the minefield of
Speaker 1: giving too much away. Ye. It sounds like there's a
Speaker 1: lot that that that that is going to happen. And
Speaker 1: so it's a four part series, right, correct. So it's
Speaker 1: a four part documentary series on Apple TV Plus called
Speaker 1: The Big Hunt coming out Basis and um. It really
Speaker 1: takes you through the journey of Eric and you really
Speaker 1: start to understand who he is. But at the core
Speaker 1: of this entire thing are these two whistleblowers, Sarah and Jennifer.
Speaker 1: They worked for the Social Security Administration in one of
Speaker 1: the local offices in West Virginia and they had been
Speaker 1: ringing the alarm bells for years that something was going
Speaker 1: on with one of the judges and with Eric Kahan.
Speaker 1: But they were only on one side of it. They
Speaker 1: couldn't really figure it out, but they were staying, Look,
Speaker 1: this is not supposed to happen the way that this
Speaker 1: is going. And it is fascinating because until Damian Plata,
Speaker 1: who wrote the Wall Street Journal article about this, they
Speaker 1: weren't even recognizing local news wasn't wanting to cover it.
Speaker 1: People that at work that they were supposed to report
Speaker 1: any sort of wrongdoing or anything to just turn their
Speaker 1: backs on them and and a lot and retaliated against them,
Speaker 1: try to get them fired. Um. And so we we've
Speaker 1: really seen this journey what it means to stand up
Speaker 1: for what you think is right, because Sarah Jennifer didn't
Speaker 1: get any sort of benefit at all out of standing
Speaker 1: up against the Social Security administration. Actually quite the opposite.
Speaker 1: They were chastise and really like and they they people
Speaker 1: try to get them fired, but they stood up for
Speaker 1: what was right. And it also shows, you know, with
Speaker 1: Damien stepping in and shining a light on this and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden that leads to a Senate
Speaker 1: hearing that leads to investigations happening. Um. It shows why
Speaker 1: the news exists because you know, all of us, as
Speaker 1: individual citizens, there's only so much we can do. Our
Speaker 1: voice can only be so loud, But when you have
Speaker 1: the megaphone of an EFC, like the Wall Street Journal,
Speaker 1: that really holds a government entity to a task. It's
Speaker 1: interesting what you said. I find that more common nowadays,
Speaker 1: where people who are afraid to do the right thing
Speaker 1: or to speak up because it's it almost it's like
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter the people that say, oh, hey, this
Speaker 1: is people are being hurt by this, this this is
Speaker 1: being done, we need to stop this. Then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, those guys get slandered to those guys get
Speaker 1: and it's like it's it's a it's a fine line
Speaker 1: to walk. So I think there's I think heroes in
Speaker 1: that sense kind of stand out more nowadays when they
Speaker 1: can get stuff done and get people behind them. It's hard.
Speaker 1: I mean you even see it with the Me Too
Speaker 1: movement where some people who come out against people who
Speaker 1: have harmed them. Now people don't want to work with
Speaker 1: them for whatever reason, and it's difficult to come forward.
Speaker 1: But you know, I would like to just pivot really
Speaker 1: quickly and maybe go back to talking about Eric. But
Speaker 1: Eric was apparently super popular in Kentucky, right, and he
Speaker 1: was touted as this like modern day Robin hood. H
Speaker 1: where do you think that that characterization came from? If
Speaker 1: you can give us a little nugget without giving too
Speaker 1: much a way, Well, in a lot of ways, he
Speaker 1: really did want to help people, or at least on
Speaker 1: the surface, well it appeared, I mean Elizabeth Holmes said
Speaker 1: the same thing, right. I mean, he you know, he
Speaker 1: was born in that region of the country, and so
Speaker 1: he had seen first him his parents were, you know,
Speaker 1: in the cold camps and uh, and so he'd seen
Speaker 1: extreme poverty. Um. And so I think that there was
Speaker 1: an inherent like interest in wanting to do something for
Speaker 1: his area. UM. Now, people can argue that that's not
Speaker 1: what his motivations were, certainly, but he was providing benefits
Speaker 1: to people who needed them, and he was providing them
Speaker 1: faster than anyone else, and he was guaranteeing them when
Speaker 1: other people were having to wait for a year and
Speaker 1: a half or more to get their benefits. He was saying, hey,
Speaker 1: I can get it too in thirty days, like when
Speaker 1: you don't have an income, like you can't wait a year,
Speaker 1: especially if you've got real medical problems, like how are
Speaker 1: you supposed to survive? Or eighteen months while you wait
Speaker 1: to get an easily check of nine dollars a month
Speaker 1: from the from the federal government. So and that's usually
Speaker 1: like at most. So he was able to do something
Speaker 1: that no other attorney could, and everybody who went to
Speaker 1: him just sall like, okay, well this this person is
Speaker 1: saving my life right now. Um. And when you think
Speaker 1: of Robin and do you think of you know, stealing
Speaker 1: from the ridge and giving the poor like it's a
Speaker 1: victimous crime, It's like, well, Eric, you know, had his
Speaker 1: deal with a with a judge and he was you know,
Speaker 1: basically cheating the system and and getting money for people
Speaker 1: faster because of this you know corruption that was happening
Speaker 1: within his you know, popular people. But his you know,
Speaker 1: this idea of it being a victim was crime. And like, oh,
Speaker 1: the government has all this money, so who cares if
Speaker 1: I'm you know, taking a few million to help my
Speaker 1: my neighbors here get their benefits faster. But that isn't
Speaker 1: the case. I mean, we all like as far as
Speaker 1: you know people in the States, right, like we all
Speaker 1: pay in at the system, right our taxes go into
Speaker 1: this safety net of social security, and we don't think
Speaker 1: about it now because it's like especially being young, we're
Speaker 1: thinking like, oh, it's our parents are grandparents like dealing
Speaker 1: with social Security. But there's a huge portion of this
Speaker 1: fund that's allocated to the stability benefits. It's a designed
Speaker 1: for people that if you can't work because you've got
Speaker 1: injured on a job or just you know, felt ill
Speaker 1: and can't you know, perform anymore, like what you know,
Speaker 1: what safety net do we have? And this is it?
Speaker 1: And deaps someone take advantage of it is essentially someone
Speaker 1: who's stealing money from all of us. About him, sorry,
Speaker 1: as you're talking about him, I like him more and more.
Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, I see what he was likable. I
Speaker 1: knew that's gonna happen. Now she's gonna want to know
Speaker 1: if he's singled there it is. Well, that does get
Speaker 1: into the side of Eric. That is really interesting because
Speaker 1: we talked about an episode and we get a very
Speaker 1: deep into it in episode two. But he's had a
Speaker 1: few wives, so he's always looking back at the list. Really,
Speaker 1: it sounds like there's hope for me. I stand by
Speaker 1: the modern day robin Hood for you. I stand by
Speaker 1: the modern day robin Hood nickname, because if Robin Hood
Speaker 1: was like the world is so upside down. Now. I
Speaker 1: think that's exactly how Robin would Robin Hood would act now,
Speaker 1: It's just it wouldn't be that that glorious like stealing
Speaker 1: from the bridge. There'd be some sort of side takes,
Speaker 1: some sort of shitty thing on the side. I swore
Speaker 1: for you guys, and so I stand by that nickname.
Speaker 1: I think you can have it, and Leah, don't pursue
Speaker 1: a relationship with him. I'm not going to, no question.
Speaker 1: Do you think that he actually thought he was going
Speaker 1: to get away with it? Oh, you know, we've talked
Speaker 1: to Eric a lot, and it's been really fascinating to
Speaker 1: see the process of topping him over the past almost
Speaker 1: three years. At this point, Um, he never necessarily thought
Speaker 1: he was going to totally get away with it. He
Speaker 1: has been described and even himself said he kind of
Speaker 1: he likes to take risks. One of his best friends
Speaker 1: and old assistants said that she felt like he was
Speaker 1: addicted to risk taking. And you know, in this situation
Speaker 1: the with one of the judges he was working with
Speaker 1: main judge, they talk about and we have this in
Speaker 1: the series that yeah, they could do something and if
Speaker 1: anything ever went down, they just take it to the grave.
Speaker 1: But as we all see in this day and age,
Speaker 1: there's just way too much evidence, way too much of
Speaker 1: a paper trail. Uh. Technology is too good to be
Speaker 1: able to just keep anything secret basically anymore. Um. And
Speaker 1: so it is definitely in a situation where you just
Speaker 1: try to stay present and think, well, this is working now,
Speaker 1: and you know, in the future, I'm sure I'll be
Speaker 1: able to figure something out to get to get out
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah. There there's a lot of different ways
Speaker 1: to think about this, because when we were making mcmillions, UH,
Speaker 1: there's always the people who are in in you know,
Speaker 1: working with Jerry Jacobson that said like, okay, this is
Speaker 1: the last one, this is the last time. But with
Speaker 1: Eric uh and what's revealed in the documentary series, and
Speaker 1: we talked about it early on, it's just the relationship
Speaker 1: he has with this one special judge and between the
Speaker 1: two of them. Uh, there's you know, the judges helping
Speaker 1: rubber stamp all these people through the system, and the
Speaker 1: judge has what is called judicial independence. So there's kind
Speaker 1: of this loophole in the system where they have the
Speaker 1: ability to make decisions whether or not someone gets benefits
Speaker 1: independent of anybody else. With no oversight and that, and
Speaker 1: and that's how they realize like, hey, there's nothing anybody
Speaker 1: can do about what we're doing. Um I can put
Speaker 1: a hundred percent of the people through the system and
Speaker 1: nobody can do anything about it. Uh. But obviously, as
Speaker 1: the you know, this goes on for years and years,
Speaker 1: and these whistleblowers who actually worked, you know, within the
Speaker 1: Social Security Administration are saying, hey, something is not right here,
Speaker 1: like there, this system is not it's not designed like
Speaker 1: this and it's not supposed to be functioning like this.
Speaker 1: But you you'll see within the documentary series like just
Speaker 1: how broken it is that, you know, they couldn't they
Speaker 1: couldn't get the word out. They couldn't they were trying
Speaker 1: to like make the point to supervisors, they were trying
Speaker 1: to go to press, they were trying to go anyway.
Speaker 1: No one wanted to touch it until this one Wall
Speaker 1: Street drone reporter independent on his own, started looking into
Speaker 1: this and realizing, like, how is it possible a judge
Speaker 1: it's approving of all cases that he sees when the
Speaker 1: average you know, administrative law judge like does like sixty
Speaker 1: and this guy is like doing twice the three times
Speaker 1: as many cases per years everybody, Like it just doesn't
Speaker 1: add up, like of the people you see not be disabled. Wow,
Speaker 1: But but doesn't it also show the loopholes and the
Speaker 1: issues with the system itself. It's almost like he should
Speaker 1: be thanked for showing the ways in which people can
Speaker 1: calm the system. Yeah, not really, we can say that
Speaker 1: that he exposed the issues. You guys don't want to
Speaker 1: thank a criminal, that's so weird. Yeah, I'm thankful that
Speaker 1: when we have a story to tell that includes them.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but really it does show like huge, very
Speaker 1: huge flaws in Social Security and that is the massive
Speaker 1: underlying thing with us. We we lure you in with
Speaker 1: the craziness of Eric, but there's actually a point to
Speaker 1: this entire situation, which is Social Security administration really has
Speaker 1: a lot of huge flaws. It's one of the largest
Speaker 1: entities in American government. It's one of the largest budgets,
Speaker 1: and if there's a lot of money, people are going
Speaker 1: to try to exploit it. But this really shows that
Speaker 1: human beings that are waiting for their benefits, that need
Speaker 1: those benefits shouldn't be waiting a year and a half.
Speaker 1: They need help now. And to be able to show
Speaker 1: how this is exploited and it's funny. And when we
Speaker 1: talked to the Senate Subcommittee of Investigations who looked into
Speaker 1: this to really lead onto this big Senate hearing, which
Speaker 1: is a very climactic moment in the series. They talked
Speaker 1: about the fact that they came to the realization and
Speaker 1: senators came to the realization that nobody had really asked
Speaker 1: for records from the Social Secure administration for about fifty years.
Speaker 1: They kind of just let Social Security do their own thing.
Speaker 1: But every single government entity needs oversight. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what it is. There's a reason for checks and balances
Speaker 1: because things can get loaded, things can get continue to
Speaker 1: run in a certain way, become very comfortable, and if
Speaker 1: you're not trying to make things more efficient, then you're
Speaker 1: just hurting the people who need it most. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know that we don't have as much time with
Speaker 1: you as we want, so maybe we could just ask
Speaker 1: a final question. Great, thank you, So that'll be a
Speaker 1: goals perfect. So you know that you know you've studied
Speaker 1: multiple con artists at this point through the years, do
Speaker 1: you feel like there's a common through line or a
Speaker 1: common thread that they share personality wise that you've seen
Speaker 1: or noticed. Yeah, I think that there. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know if there's necessarily a common through line, but
Speaker 1: there's definitely the uh ability to as James pointed out before,
Speaker 1: is like to take that risk, you know, inherently, Like
Speaker 1: we all kind of ponder like if you could you know,
Speaker 1: if you I mean we talked about with Mgmion Psyche
Speaker 1: if you saw you know, a wallet on the ground
Speaker 1: and had you know, ten thous dollars in it? Uh,
Speaker 1: Like what compels you to pick that wallet up and
Speaker 1: return it to the rightful owner with all the money
Speaker 1: in it? Um? But if no one's around, like, and
Speaker 1: you need the money, Uh, what's not to stop you
Speaker 1: from just taking it and saying, hey, this is my
Speaker 1: lucky day. And we're always you know, we find ourselves
Speaker 1: in these unique moments of life where we're conflicted or
Speaker 1: we we have to make a choice about what's the
Speaker 1: right thing to do and what's the wrong thing to do.
Speaker 1: And I think what's fascinating with this is it's an
Speaker 1: illustration of what happens when someone leads, you know, leans
Speaker 1: into that temptation. Uh, when someone says, hey, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna go for it. Um, I think what happens in
Speaker 1: a lot of these cases is you get away with
Speaker 1: it once and you're like, oh my gosh, there was
Speaker 1: a thrill to it perhaps, or like, look, it's not
Speaker 1: hurting anybody, so let me do it again. And then
Speaker 1: it becomes so systematic and you're not even thinking that
Speaker 1: you're committing a crime. Um And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people talk themselves into thinking, hey, I'm kind of
Speaker 1: owed this for something. They justify it with something else
Speaker 1: in their life. Right, it's the rationalization that you can
Speaker 1: go down and you get away with a little bit.
Speaker 1: You can get away with a little bit. And the
Speaker 1: thing that we always see is that, unfortunately, and everyone's
Speaker 1: experienced this, greed gets the better of you if you
Speaker 1: let it. And on the other side of that is
Speaker 1: that level narcissism of I'm owed this. This is I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm not hurting anybody. The U. S. Government is the
Speaker 1: largest entity on the planet basically, so what if I'm
Speaker 1: taking a few extra million dollars from them? How's that
Speaker 1: going to affect a budget that's trillions of dollars? And
Speaker 1: it is we just we've we've with mcmillions. It was
Speaker 1: funny because and all in all, they stalled about four
Speaker 1: million dollars. This is five and fifty million dollars, and
Speaker 1: but the motivations are very much the same. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and I think that there's there's probably commonalities too with
Speaker 1: childhood or some sort of trauma or some experience that
Speaker 1: really affected kind of how like in the case of
Speaker 1: Eric's ekhan in a story like we we actually we
Speaker 1: talked about Eric's mom and what he was like his
Speaker 1: relationship with his mom, and we feel like in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, like that did affect his desire to
Speaker 1: get out there, his desire to be recognized, his desire
Speaker 1: to do something that was meaningful, and you know, I
Speaker 1: had to have some success in a small town. Like
Speaker 1: he was a he wasn't he was a geniue. I
Speaker 1: mean he self proclaimed genius by the way. He uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So I'm now a fraud con person. Yeah, So, you know,
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of commonalities, but there's also there's
Speaker 1: got to be something that you can trace back to
Speaker 1: early in life with all these people that's like, hey,
Speaker 1: I you know, this is the reason why I decided
Speaker 1: to pick up that wallet and claim the ten thousands
Speaker 1: of my stuff rather than try to do the right
Speaker 1: thing that makes sense. I mean, I'm I'm more totally
Speaker 1: interested in knowing more about the Halloween themed brothel and
Speaker 1: wondering if if people were having sex and zombie which
Speaker 1: and sexy Donald Trump costumes. Uh, that whole thing. That
Speaker 1: is one of the most shocking things we've found out about.
Speaker 1: When we're talking to people about Eric, it came up that, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: Eric had a brothel. Because part of what you learned
Speaker 1: in the series is that one week out of every
Speaker 1: single month, Eric would fly somewhere around the world to
Speaker 1: try and basically find a new wife, women a biza.
Speaker 1: Sorry what so he's getting a you know, the the
Speaker 1: conjugal visits you might have to go to talk but
Speaker 1: if only you do how many times I talked about
Speaker 1: conjugal visits? Okay, go on. So we we find that
Speaker 1: he's traveling around the world doing other stuff, and then
Speaker 1: it comes up that like, oh, at one point Eric
Speaker 1: bought a brothel and owned and random brothel, and we're
Speaker 1: just mind blown about this whole thing. I mean, our
Speaker 1: entire team we worked with here at fund Meter was like,
Speaker 1: is this is this real? Then we start researching it
Speaker 1: and sure enough. Yeah. I even talking to Eric. He
Speaker 1: talks about it in the series of you know, was
Speaker 1: it a brothel? Was it a go go? And he
Speaker 1: one of my personal favorite quotes of it. You know,
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, you go there and if
Speaker 1: you like it, you take it home. That's that's sort
Speaker 1: of how he looked his go go slash brothel. But um,
Speaker 1: it is it is a wild scenario. And uh, I
Speaker 1: really wish it still existed because I'd love to go
Speaker 1: to Thailand and uh has a pat Hi there? I haven't.
Speaker 1: I haven't heard anything. After Leah suggested that there was
Speaker 1: such a thing as a sexy Donald Trump costume, I
Speaker 1: was like, I was like, is it Is it a
Speaker 1: good thing that we don't have any photos? Or I
Speaker 1: want to see that. I could see it now, someone
Speaker 1: just with a spray tanned orange face, with white eyes,
Speaker 1: a wig and just nothing else. All right, moving on,
Speaker 1: So everyone's gonna have nightmares tonight thanks to me? Or
Speaker 1: is there anything else about the show? Any last thoughts
Speaker 1: that you want to tell us or the listeners about,
Speaker 1: or any parting words that you want to share. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that you said before
Speaker 1: about like you know, you know, standing up for what's right,
Speaker 1: and like there's a there's an inspirational side to this
Speaker 1: story as well, And there's also a cautionary tale of
Speaker 1: what happens when you can are a problem. Um, because
Speaker 1: with our two whistleblowers, they were saying, hey, there's a
Speaker 1: problem here, and they were being ignored, and they were
Speaker 1: being were time and time again. What happens with a
Speaker 1: problem when you ignore it. It doesn't just go away
Speaker 1: like a lot of people wanted to. Uh, it just
Speaker 1: becomes a bigger problem and a bigger problem. And this
Speaker 1: is really a horrific illustration of how big that problem
Speaker 1: can get and how can affect so many people. And
Speaker 1: I had just one person early on just said you
Speaker 1: know what, right, there's a problem here and I can
Speaker 1: help stop it. But so many people avoided it, and
Speaker 1: then people went out of their way to actually stop
Speaker 1: them from making that problem known to other people. And
Speaker 1: it so I think that there's a great cautionary tale
Speaker 1: in this story. So it's got everything. It's got humor,
Speaker 1: it's got tragedy, it's got inspiration, it's got sell them
Speaker 1: sell it's got from Halloween being yeah, yeah, the underlying
Speaker 1: sexy Donald Trump's is we just like as outrageous as
Speaker 1: Eric is, and he's crazy and saying and fun and
Speaker 1: just watching his commercials will make you laugh. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, there are people that are still fighting
Speaker 1: to try and get their benefits back. This is still
Speaker 1: a problem right now, and you know, the people that
Speaker 1: are fighting for their benefits have really had a hard time.
Speaker 1: So we're really we hope above anything that this shines
Speaker 1: a light on this entire topic so that the people
Speaker 1: who need help can get it, and that some changes
Speaker 1: at the very top, governments, whole level start to happen
Speaker 1: so things like this don't happen again. Amazing. I'm looking
Speaker 1: forward to it. And on a personal note, I want
Speaker 1: to thank you guys for mcmillions because I was in
Speaker 1: the nineties. I was on a mission to win that thing.
Speaker 1: I had a lot of food I didn't want to
Speaker 1: eat because somehow I thought I was like Charlie and
Speaker 1: the chocolate factory. I saw one of those little things
Speaker 1: on the ground and then I went and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's it, and I picked it up and I never won.
Speaker 1: So the fact that you exposed that there was a
Speaker 1: problem and it wasn't just me um, sadly, I appreciate
Speaker 1: all that. I remember it also as a little kid,
Speaker 1: very very young, because I'm eighteen basically, so I don't
Speaker 1: like that you guys laughed, but uh, well is what's
Speaker 1: the legal drinking age and a visa, isn't it? So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah I don't drink, but yeah I'm barely legal. But
Speaker 1: I know I remember it as a kid too. And
Speaker 1: also mcmillian's helped me get through the pandemic. So much
Speaker 1: appreciated to you. We're like, oh, good content, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you. That's that's awesome to hear. You know. We
Speaker 1: we worked insanely hard on that entire thing, and uh,
Speaker 1: the big con got us through the pandemic because that's
Speaker 1: basically all we've been been doing since the world shut down.
Speaker 1: So that was an interesting challenge, but we we got
Speaker 1: it done well. James and Brian, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming on the podcast today, and anyone who's listening.
Speaker 1: If you have Apple tv plus, congratulations you've made a
Speaker 1: great choice. If not, download it now so that you
Speaker 1: can also watch the show. It's coming out May six,
Speaker 1: so tomorrow, and you can also listen to the Companion
Speaker 1: Show on Apple Podcasts. Yes, the Big on on Apple
Speaker 1: TV plus Basics. Then there's a companion podcast. What else
Speaker 1: do we have fun new year? We got a new
Speaker 1: line of kidding. Yeah. Well, if you guys wanted to
Speaker 1: buy my new fragrance, it's Curious by Britney Spears and
Speaker 1: it's out now, so check yourselves at CBS. Gentlemen, it's
Speaker 1: been an honor and a pleasure. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming on the podcast today, and we can't wait
Speaker 1: to watch the show and listen to the podcast. Oh,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having us. Thanks guys, Well,
Speaker 1: of course, have a good one, all right, you too,
Speaker 1: bye bye ye, all right you guys. In today, our
Speaker 1: hot topics are going to be Dave Chappelle getting attacked
Speaker 1: on stage at the Netflix as a Joke festival, and
Speaker 1: a complaint against Bill Murray over a difference of opinion
Speaker 1: on set shutting down a film. So we're going in
Speaker 1: real Hollywood today. Let's talk about Bill Murray first, because
Speaker 1: I can't even believe anyone would complain about Bill Murray.
Speaker 1: This just seems ridiculous to me. However, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you know this, but there was actually previously a
Speaker 1: complaint against Bill Murray during uh the filming of Charlie's
Speaker 1: Angels in two thousand, when Lucy Lou said that she
Speaker 1: had some issues with him and that he was hurling
Speaker 1: insults at her while doing a scene and some of
Speaker 1: the language was and I quote, inexcusable and unacceptable. So
Speaker 1: interesting to hear that, But now moving forward. Apparently for
Speaker 1: roughly two weeks after search Like Pictures suspended production on
Speaker 1: the film Being Mortal to investigate a complaint filed against
Speaker 1: Bill Murray, the actor described the inciting incident as a
Speaker 1: difference of opinion. During a recent sit down with c NBC,
Speaker 1: Murray said, I had a difference of opinion with a
Speaker 1: woman I'm working with. I did something I thought was
Speaker 1: funny and it wasn't taken that way. The company, the
Speaker 1: movie studio, wanted to do the right things, so they
Speaker 1: wanted to check it all out and investigate it, and
Speaker 1: so they stopped the production. Murray said that the woman
Speaker 1: who filed the complaint are they're both trying to make
Speaker 1: peaks with each other. He says, We're both professionals, we
Speaker 1: like each other's work, we like each other. I think
Speaker 1: if we can't really get along and trust each other,
Speaker 1: there's no point in going there's no point in going
Speaker 1: further working together or making the movie as well. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like Bill Murray a lot. I'm a big fan.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I'm not. I'm not justifying anything that I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know what was said, the stuff
Speaker 1: I don't know, the Charlie's Angels things. If something was
Speaker 1: done wrong, then I'm not then I don't advocate that,
Speaker 1: but I really I'm a big fan of his I
Speaker 1: kind of don't. This doesn't feel like a major thing.
Speaker 1: This sounds like maybe somebody was offended or maybe there
Speaker 1: was something, and it sounds like they're working it out there.
Speaker 1: And I'm almost content. And I'm not saying I don't
Speaker 1: want to talk about it, but I'm almost content leaving
Speaker 1: it at that, because I feel like a lot of
Speaker 1: people get involved in stuff that doesn't need it and
Speaker 1: it becomes a bigger thing. I'm not ready to take
Speaker 1: Bill Murray down without the facts, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to take Bill Murray down, and I don't want other
Speaker 1: people take him down if he did something wrong. I
Speaker 1: hope that they can work that out. Do people ever
Speaker 1: know what was said? I don't know. It sounds like
Speaker 1: they're kind of keeping it pretty close to the vest. Now.
Speaker 1: I think I'd be foolish to say no, because I
Speaker 1: think everything eventually comes out. Um, it seems crazy that
Speaker 1: with all the information and the Amber heard and Johnny
Speaker 1: Depp trial, we know everything that happened between them, including
Speaker 1: shifting the bed. How could we not know what was
Speaker 1: said on set? And you know, I think the social
Speaker 1: opinion always impacts the actual decision as well, and and
Speaker 1: you know, it can affect people's careers. So we found
Speaker 1: out that something happened that people didn't think was that
Speaker 1: big of a deal. Maybe it would make this woman
Speaker 1: look really bad and then and it would make the
Speaker 1: studios look ridiculous and everyone look ridiculous. But if they
Speaker 1: if what he said was really bad and they're trying
Speaker 1: to protect Bill, you know, there's just so many ways
Speaker 1: that's can all play out. Yeah, And I think that's
Speaker 1: that's kind of where I'm at. I think we don't
Speaker 1: always need to be a giant court of opinion. I
Speaker 1: think it's good to weigh in on stuff. It's good
Speaker 1: to know stuff. But you know, things happened, you know,
Speaker 1: I know there was this thing recently with Steve Martin
Speaker 1: when people went back and like the King Tut thing,
Speaker 1: and it's like, guys, that was thirty years ago. It
Speaker 1: was a different context. You can't go back and dig
Speaker 1: that up. Granted this just happened now, but I don't
Speaker 1: know that there has to be this. To me, without knowing,
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like it's there's a major thing. There's
Speaker 1: no police, there's no you know. So it's like, whatever
Speaker 1: it was, it sounds like it can be. It can
Speaker 1: be cleaned up without it without it going through you know,
Speaker 1: the general court of opinion. Man, I wish I knew
Speaker 1: what was said. I really do. I'm so nosy. But
Speaker 1: also because yeah, ay, and be also because you know,
Speaker 1: I think that as a comedian sometimes you just not
Speaker 1: that you don't know the line, but it's just you
Speaker 1: have no filter and you kind of assume around other
Speaker 1: artists you can just be free and be yourself. And
Speaker 1: sometimes it's never meant to make someone feel uncomfortable or
Speaker 1: make someone feel bad. Maybe you're just you know, saying
Speaker 1: something ridiculous or yeah, we have no idea what the
Speaker 1: context was. We don't know if he was talking about
Speaker 1: someone on set. We don't know if he was talking
Speaker 1: about something completely random and she just found it inappropriate,
Speaker 1: and so, you know, it's it's always interesting to see
Speaker 1: how people get slammed for something that maybe nothing or
Speaker 1: or nothing that might be something. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: pressure when you're brought in to do something as a comedian,
Speaker 1: and as a comedian and actor, you know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of pressure. You're you're almost seen as you know,
Speaker 1: you've got to kind of entertain people on the set.
Speaker 1: You got and I'm not saying that means cross lines,
Speaker 1: but sometimes you feel like, okay, well I gotta do this.
Speaker 1: So it is possible that you would say some stuff
Speaker 1: that normally you wouldn't say, or maybe it was a
Speaker 1: long day and you did. I'm not making excuses for him,
Speaker 1: but I'm saying that this is a thing there is
Speaker 1: pressure to entertain, so it's very possible. Like you said,
Speaker 1: you start, you know, kind of joking around with people
Speaker 1: on the line, gets a little blurred and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you've gone over it, which it's a lot
Speaker 1: easier to do nowadays. Do you think it's going to
Speaker 1: harm his career this incident. I don't think so. I
Speaker 1: hope not, and I think it's gonna be a little
Speaker 1: bit of a gray area if we don't find out
Speaker 1: what happened, because then people will be like, well, I
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm dipping my toe in here, so right,
Speaker 1: I mean, Dave Chappelle survived cancel culture, Joe Rogan survived
Speaker 1: cancel culture. I think that there are some people who
Speaker 1: are so much larger than the entertainment industry that can't
Speaker 1: be canceled. Yeah, and I'd like to Fahil Murray seems
Speaker 1: like one of those people. And Bill Murray is not
Speaker 1: someone that has been you know, um an ass and
Speaker 1: has has done things. He's known for being, you know,
Speaker 1: a good guy and in a lot of different situations.
Speaker 1: Although I've got questions for Lucy Lou. Yeah. Right. Anyway,
Speaker 1: speaking of drama in the workplace and Hollywood, if you
Speaker 1: haven't heard about this yet, just the other night in
Speaker 1: Hollywood at the Hollywood Bowl, Dave Chappelle was tackled by
Speaker 1: someone in the front row who had a gun and
Speaker 1: a knife. How they got the gun in the knife
Speaker 1: into the Hollywood Bowl when they were metal detectors and
Speaker 1: everyone's phones were being locked up is beyond me. Apparently
Speaker 1: they were so consumed with locking up people's phones that
Speaker 1: they missed a gun, Like, how does that not go
Speaker 1: through the metal detector. It's all very odd. And apparently
Speaker 1: this guy snuck into the front row. He didn't have
Speaker 1: a front row seat or anything, and he went on
Speaker 1: stage tackled Dave Chappelle and this is all for Netflix
Speaker 1: as a joke, and he came up, he stood up,
Speaker 1: Chris Rock came grabbed the mic. Set is that you
Speaker 1: Will Smith, L O L. And Jamie Fox, Jon Stewart,
Speaker 1: all the other comedians just started running and chasing and
Speaker 1: beating the ship out of this guy along with security.
Speaker 1: He left mangled, his arm was broken, twisted in a
Speaker 1: million pieces. But I mean, man, this is um this
Speaker 1: is pretty despicable. Also, you know, I wonder what the
Speaker 1: motive was. We haven't even gotten there. With Will Smith
Speaker 1: and Chris Rock, we know what the motive was, We
Speaker 1: know what was going on, but with this guy, we
Speaker 1: have no clue. Right And also, you know, there were
Speaker 1: no consequences for Will Smith physically, you know, he professionally
Speaker 1: he's been you know, banned for ten years and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. But for this guy, he was immediately tackled,
Speaker 1: beat up. It's just interesting to see how there's a
Speaker 1: difference and how people are treated Because a reputation walked
Speaker 1: on stage and smacked Chris Rock. Uh, somebody that was
Speaker 1: unknown jumped up and and and tackled Dave Chappelle, So
Speaker 1: that that's the difference. The difference is people like, oh,
Speaker 1: I know this guy is once he's walking up, what
Speaker 1: he do? Oh I can't believe he did that. That's
Speaker 1: not like him. This is who knows what this guy
Speaker 1: is doing? So they grabbed him and beat him up,
Speaker 1: and you know, neither is correct. Both are scary. Um.
Speaker 1: I tend to think that the obviously that Dave Chappelle
Speaker 1: one is is a is more scary to think about.
Speaker 1: Because I got past security, got on stage tackle him.
Speaker 1: It could have been gun had a gun, I mean,
Speaker 1: I still just don't. Also, that is so bizarre that
Speaker 1: the guy brought a gun but decided to get on
Speaker 1: stage and tackle him instead of using the gun. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just read somewhere that it was a replica gun,
Speaker 1: but then he had a real knife attached to it
Speaker 1: like that right there says there's a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: craziness going through that head. But um, to do any
Speaker 1: of that but um, yeah, it could have been a
Speaker 1: thousand times worse than it was. It could have been
Speaker 1: a thousand times worse. The fact that Dave just brushed
Speaker 1: it off and everyone started making jokes immediately goes to
Speaker 1: show you how jaded comedians are already by violence or
Speaker 1: like expecting something bad to happen that shouldn't be the norm.
Speaker 1: I know, and I'm torn because I really appreciate the
Speaker 1: professionalism of being able to bounce both of them, Chris
Speaker 1: Rock to being able to bounce back and and do
Speaker 1: what you're what you do make people feel a little
Speaker 1: more comfortable to make some jokes about it. But it's
Speaker 1: also like I don't want that. I don't want the
Speaker 1: ability to do that to diminish the reaction to these
Speaker 1: types of things, right, And and I know as a
Speaker 1: comedian I deflect with comedy a lot. In fact, last night,
Speaker 1: I was having a very intense emotional conversation with someone.
Speaker 1: I just made a joke and I just thought, in
Speaker 1: that moment, why did I have to do that? You know,
Speaker 1: it's because I was so uncomfortable that I had to
Speaker 1: bring laughter into it and make it less serious and
Speaker 1: to take away any element of pain or anything for
Speaker 1: me or the other person. And a lot of times
Speaker 1: I'm just you know, I do that, and I think
Speaker 1: that a lot of comedians do that because it's our
Speaker 1: fence mechanism and it makes everything okay. Not everything needs
Speaker 1: to be made okay. Like that's a pretty scary thing
Speaker 1: to happen. But anyway, I mean, look, the podcast wentlong today.
Speaker 1: It's short, but it went long. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: And now Dmitri has to go be a celebrity And
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Dmitri. Did you get invited to Tom Cruise's
Speaker 1: new movie premiere? I did. I'm I'm off to the
Speaker 1: top gun Maverick premiere. And will you take photos on
Speaker 1: the red carpet with your arm extended out pretending to
Speaker 1: hold an invisible person so that I can photoshop myself
Speaker 1: into the photos. It's just the way you painted that, right.
Speaker 1: There is probably a no I'll go out and pretend
Speaker 1: to hold an invisible person. I'm probably gonna say no,
Speaker 1: but I'll see what I can do. We don't want
Speaker 1: to seem crazy on the red carpet in front of
Speaker 1: all your peers and Tom Cruise, that's so weird. There's
Speaker 1: enough crazy out there. I think I'm gonna stand and
Speaker 1: stand down on this. Ha ha. Okay, Well, you have
Speaker 1: a fabulous time on the red carpet. I mean at
Speaker 1: the movie premiere tonight. I'm wondering who you're wearing. I
Speaker 1: would love to see photos at the gown, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just so curious. Well, if you'll have me back,
Speaker 1: I'd love to come back and talk about it. If
Speaker 1: you guys also see a crime in the future, one
Speaker 1: that is Dimitri's hair and makeup that I'm sure we'll
Speaker 1: follow after this, it's gonna be beautiful. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: a beautiful wig. If you see a crime, like, for example,
Speaker 1: if you were at Netflix is a joke last night,
Speaker 1: two nights ago, when this airs, or whenever you're listening
Speaker 1: to it. If you were in there and you saw
Speaker 1: what happened, you're supposed to call us. You know that, right.
Speaker 1: We have a call in number for this exact reason,
Speaker 1: and you know what it is. It's eight six six crime.
Speaker 1: If you witness a crime that's not too scary, you like,
Speaker 1: don't don't call us for the scary ones, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like, that's when you call the cops,
Speaker 1: So we're not the cops. We can't do anything for you.
Speaker 1: We're social slits. You know this crime and you want
Speaker 1: to call and confess. We can help you with that too. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: like we'll pardon your sins. We will call in eight
Speaker 1: six six twenty one crime. That's eight six six two
Speaker 1: one two seven four or six three eight six six
Speaker 1: twenty one crime six to anyone crime that's eight six
Speaker 1: six two one two seven four six three. All right, y'all,
Speaker 1: it's day safe. Have a great night that. Don't commit
Speaker 1: any crimes until the next podcast. Okay, love you all. Bye.
Speaker 1: It's real time. Crop it real time Gray, I mean,
Speaker 1: is it actually real time crime or solving anything or
Speaker 1: is that just the thing we say, it's a thing
Speaker 1: we say, got it? Okay, see you next week for
Speaker 1: more real time crime, only on i Heart Radio.