WEBVTT - The Big Pod 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:14.720 Crime. Hello, we one, and welcome back to another episode 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.759 of Real Time Crime. I'm your host Leo Lamar and 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:24.240 I have with me sometimes now oftentimes Dmitri. Hello, oftentimes Dmitri. 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.280 I'm in paradise. I know you are. And this is 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:30.880 the first time we're doing this podcast, like all the 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:35.080 way around the world. It's nine pm here, and I 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.280 will say that it doesn't make it any easier the 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:40.440 later it gets for me, and it doesn't make it 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:42.640 any easier the earlier we do this for me, So 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:45.480 it's never easy for me. That was the whole reason 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:47.479 we sent you over there was because we're like, we 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:49.559 could do the podcast a regular time, but it'll be 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.839 nighttime for her. It'll be perfect and Leo will finally 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.280 be awake. Well, let me tell you, I could sleep 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.320 as late as you will let me. Oh boy. And 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.800 I'm in a eza in case anyone who's interested, No, 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.720 I won't say Abitha because apparently that's not actually how 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.000 you're supposed to say it. It annoys me anyway, so yeah, 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.560 and mostly because it annoys Dmitri. Today we will be 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.480 discussing a couple of hot topics, some of your favorite 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:18.520 I's only got a sexphone operator right now. I don't 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:22.240 know what they sound like, but sure, sure, sure, sure 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:27.319 how much it's twenty dollars per minute. So of course 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.920 we've got two amazing guests for you today, and we'll 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:34.000 be talking about The Big Con, which airs on Apple 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:40.640 TV Plus and on Apple Podcasts May six. So get 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.240 excited because we've got guests who are gonna be speaking 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.520 to the nature of that show and the podcast. Our 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.919 first guest today is James Lee Hernandez. He's a multi 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:54.720 Emmy and pg A Award nominated filmmaker and critically acclaimed podcaster. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.520 He recently directed, wrote, and edited the five time Emmy 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:03.760 nominated HBO origin old documentary series mcmillions with his creative 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:07.360 partner Brian Lazarte, who will be meeting next Hernandez executive 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:11.840 produced the series with Mark Wahlberg, Stephen Levinson, Archie Gibbs, 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.040 and Lazarte. Hernandez as a founding partner of fund Meter, 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.480 a TV and film production company specializing in Stranger than Fiction, 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:24.359 scripted and unscripted content. Recently announced, Hernandez and Lazarte are writing, directing, 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.760 an executive producing two documentary series for Apple TV Plus 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.600 through fund Meter, The Big Con, and The Jet. Both 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.840 shows are slated to be released in two and then 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.320 we have Brian Lazarte. He's an Emmy nominated filmmaker and editor. 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:40.800 His credits include a variety of award winning documentaries and series, 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:44.920 most notably mcmillions for HBO, which he wrote, directed, executive produced, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.720 and edited alongside James Lee Hernandez. His four part Apple 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:52.040 TV Plus original docs series The Big Con and Apple 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.000 TV Plus original documentary series The Jet will be available 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.400 to stream this year. Some other credits may include Katie 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.080 Perry part of Me three d a, HBO's Emmy Award 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:05.200 winning Sonic Highways, fed Up at ESPN's Emmy Award winning 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:09.000 Hawaiian The Legend of Eddie Aku, thirty for thirty. I mean, 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.240 the list goes on and on, and we are so 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.440 excited to be speaking with them today about their new show, 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.040 The Big Con, which is a four part Apple TV 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:21.120 Plus documentary series with a companion podcast about Eric c. 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:25.160 kN hilarious that his last name is Con when he's 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:30.200 a con man. Yeah, I mean, it's hilarious who defrauded 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:33.680 the government and taxpayers over half a billion dollars. Former 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.960 Eastern Kentucky attorney Eric S. Kon is known for committing 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.600 the largest social Security fraud case in history. The Big 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.720 Con examines his larger than life story, the people he defrauded, 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.240 and his inevitable run from the law. The trailer described 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.200 Cohn as one of the biggest lawyers in Appalachia and 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.240 his celebrity was unavoidable. He used his riches to attract 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:57.160 porn stars, throw out rageous parties, and open to Halloween 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.560 themed brothel. My kind of guy. He had ventually caught 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.240 the eye of law enforcement after defrauding taxpayers in the 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.920 United States. Out of mill subscribers can watch the four 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.920 part documentary series and Apple TV Plus, and anyone can 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.400 listen to The Companion Show on Apple Podcast when both 0:04:12.440 --> 0:05:01.560 premiere on May six. M HM, Hi James and Brian, 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.280 So nice to meet you. Hello, nice to meet you 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.880 as well, and Leeah. I don't usually record from what 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.920 looks like the inside of an insane asylum, but I 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.880 am in a BISA, not to brag, and I'm this 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.640 is the only location that has WiFi. There's no five 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.080 G on this island. I mean, nothing works here and 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.920 yet I have three bars of service here. So this 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:25.920 is the room that I'm podcasting in today. I don't 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.400 want to tell her that her regular apartment looks more 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.440 like an insane asylum than her hotel room. But well, 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.200 he's not wrong that that actually that journey took me 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.440 all over the place. One I was going to think 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.040 that you actually were insane asylum, and I learned her. 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:43.560 And now I'm a little upset that we're not at 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.159 some party with you right now on the beach. So 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.480 I'll deal. Well, I do have three brain cells left, 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.400 so I will end up in an insane asylum. Comes 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.720 full circle really at our our l A premiere last 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:01.560 night and we're up a little late, so we thanks 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.200 for the invite, guys, not that I could have made it, 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.320 just you know, wanted to be invited so I could say, no, 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:12.200 I'm in a pizza. Yeah, understandable. Just so you know, 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.599 I gave you both very big intros with all of 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:23.440 your credits right before this, so just so yeah, so 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.520 just yeah, And that's the show, ladies and gentlemen, So 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:28.599 just pretend that you feel really loved by us and 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:32.840 respected if that's okay, Yeah, that easy. I mean, it's 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:38.680 show business, baby, So we already told people a little 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:41.240 bit about the big Con and we're very excited for 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.800 your new series and the Companion podcast. So now we've 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:50.400 got a ton of questions for you to hit us gently. 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:55.839 I mean, I'm not Will Smith, you know, yeah, true, 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.760 he was. He was bobbing and leaving. You know, he's 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:01.840 doing great. I mean the most notable hit now is 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:04.599 Dave Chappelle last night, and then Chris Rock came on 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.120 and said, was that you Will Smith? You guys heard 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:11.800 about this? I'm sure yes. I mean as a comedian, 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.680 I find this terrifying. Terrifying. It is like that's the 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.520 that's like the terrible thing about this is that now 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.560 that's all of a sudden like normalizes something insane like 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:25.040 that happening, which it absolutely should not be. And hopefully 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.800 it goes back to the seventies, eighties and nineties of 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.119 the Academy Awards next year where there's some insanely large 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:36.600 stage that people tripped all over themselves. I also missed 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.800 just seeing those videos in general. But yeah, that's just 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:44.120 very unfortunate and like nobody should have to deal with that. Yeah. No, 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.880 there's been some sort of opening where even the NBA 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.920 playoffs now people are like storming the courts. It seems, 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.480 you know, more at a rapid pace and more frequently 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.600 people are running on and interrupting things. And I mean, 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.000 obviously it's got to have something to do with with 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.000 a notoriety and that's TikTok and this and that. But 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.720 it's like it's it's it's kind of insane. I think 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.080 you think this is going to be the norm. So 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.920 I'm just I'm pretending for a moment that like this 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:16.960 is just a fluke, uh that we're experiencing at the moment. Yeah, 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.400 I think that reality TV has become so rampant that 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.640 it's blending so much with society where people feel like 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:25.800 they have to do all of these crazy things to 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:30.640 get noticed, you know, TikTok, reality television and and it's 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:32.920 everyone's just one upping each other constantly. And I don't 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.320 think that these are challenges, so to speak, but I 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:39.640 do think society has become unrealistic with what people can 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.440 and cannot do. You know, there's no proper morals anymore. 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.120 And wanted to talk about but right up your guy's 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.600 alley though, like the Tinder swindler, right, he he swindled 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:51.520 people out of all this money and so what happened? 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:53.360 They're like, Oh, he's gonna get his own TV show, 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.480 So why would these people see consequences accept the potential 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:00.320 upside to doing stuff like that. Speaking of ch if 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.240 you guys could check your pockets, I've already stolen your 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.360 identities and your money. But thank you so much. I 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.000 hope to get a TV deal out of this. Yeah. Yeah, 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.079 I mean that is a really fascinating thing as you 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:15.120 start to look at as true crime has gotten more 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.120 and more popular and really what has now been deemed 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:22.559 true cons uh, it almost feels like, in a certain sense, 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:26.880 there's the annadel v level of know how she achieved 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.040 what she wanted to achieve. Her whole thing was wanting 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.560 to be famous and recognized and be this whole hous thing. 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.960 There is an entire TV show, scripted TV show on 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.400 Netflix about her, and she won. It's it's like the 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.360 end of the movie seven, Like, even though you think 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.920 that person lost, they actually did achieve the thing they wanted. 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.920 It's true. And as someone who's in ABISA getting a 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.640 v I P experience and not taking any of the 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:56.920 g A routes, I will say v I P is 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:02.400 always better. Thanks for the continuing to rub that in. Yeah, 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.160 I feel like we should do a shot every time 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:10.080 she mentioned we didn't get wasn't coming through yet. I 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:14.560 don't know what's happening, and Adelvia and Adelvie keeps winning. Okay, 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:18.040 So you guys just really quickly right from millions to 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.600 the big Con. What led you to your fascination with 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:25.720 con artists and swindlers to begin with? I don't I 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.199 don't know if it's necessarily were attracted to con artists 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:32.920 or swindlers. I think we're just I am sorry what 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:39.000 I mean, you know, it's quite the dating. Well, the 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:44.640 the the attractive component of mcmillions was that this happened, 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.640 you know, in the in the nineties when all of 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:51.840 us were playing this crazy game, right, um, And so 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.680 it's pulling back the curtain at like what was happening 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.719 behind the scenes, and it's incredible fraud story. And at 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.840 the helm of it was this uh as con artists, 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.640 right And in this case, because our main character is 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:08.880 named con Uh, there is certainly a natural attraction to 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.520 this person. But after doing a fraud story like mcmillians, 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.600 like we weren't we weren't really thinking, Hey, our next 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.800 project is going to be necessarily a fraud story, and 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.439 and if we did it, how can we do it different? 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.640 What's something that we hadn't really tapped into in this 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.480 type of genre. And one of the things that we 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:31.600 didn't have with mcmillions was Jerry Jacobson, who was the 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.439 you know, the main person right at the helm. We 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.520 had everyone else talking about him, and the series really 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.520 didn't suffer. We don't feel like for not having them, 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.080 but for the big con we knew we wanted to 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:48.120 hear from Eric himself and we he was actually one 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:49.960 of the first people that we reach out to to 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.720 really see if we could build his trust and if 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.280 he could participate and how could we make that happen. 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.439 And through that process, he revealed that he'd been writing 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.520 kind of his life story. He shared it with us 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.640 and it was like, you know, this insane, uh rose 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:10.040 colored glasses view of his his life. It read like 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.760 a movie. So uh, we knew that that was going 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.760 to be an ingredient that would make this significantly different. 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.920 But the stakes of this story are so much greater 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:23.680 uh than mcmillions, And I think we were just captivated 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:25.640 by the possibilities of where this story can go. No 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:27.760 one had really done a deep dive on this before. 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.040 But I mean this is insane. Obviously you go back 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.240 to the guy's name is con right off the bat, 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.040 maybe he's destined for this, but I mean he stole 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:39.480 more than five fifty million and social security benefits. Like, yeah, 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:42.680 obviously we don't want to spoil the you know everyone's 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.520 gonna watch it anyway, But how does it How do 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.360 you go about something like does this? Does this? Did 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.040 it trickle in? He's like, I'm gonna start with this 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:52.760 and then just realized what a grand scheme it could 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:56.800 be and just kept it kept snowballing in a sense, Yeah, 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.920 he started out just as a regular attorney doing sales 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.280 with security benefits and just in general and eastern Kentucky, 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.560 the two main counties are Pike County and uh and 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:11.839 Floyd County, and there two basically counties that are propped 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.920 up completely by coal mining and and the eighties, seventies 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:19.480 and eighties, Pike County had more millionaires per capita than 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.079 any other county in the nation. Now it is one 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.760 of the poorest counties in the nation because coal just 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.360 is going away. It's really almost fully pulled out of 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.480 the area. But part of that is coal mining is 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.160 a very very difficult profession, and so you have a 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.760 lot of younger people, specially young men that are in 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.000 their forties and fifties, that are now just totally decimated 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.640 by working in the coal industry. They can't work anymore, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.000 they can't stand, they can't really sit for long periods 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.200 of time, and so they need to go on these 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.440 benefits to help them for the rest of their lives. 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.199 Eric saw this and also saw the opportunity that a 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.600 lot of these people don't know lawyers. They don't they 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:00.840 it's all word of mouth. They just well, you know, 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.160 who did you like a friend and neighbor, who did 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:04.840 you get your benefits from? Okay, I'm gonna go to 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.880 that person. And so he bought out every billboard in 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.920 the small town. He did all these crazy commercials. He 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:16.199 bought out like almost every ad in the newspaper. They 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.880 were doing radio ads, it's songs. He was really, as 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.480 he referred to himself, a marketing genius in the sense 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.520 that everybody then knew Eric con is the person you 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.120 go to to get your benefits. And what they didn't 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:32.120 understand is that behind the scenes, Eric was getting these 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:36.480 rubber stamps to just put anybody on benefits because he 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:43.160 had public officials and judges on the payroll. Wow, I mean, 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:47.720 that's straight up mafia style, it is, and it's wild 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.560 because it's not really that complex of a scheme. It's 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:56.080 the the tried and true. You know, you scratch my back, 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.120 I scratch yours. Um. But at the same time, it 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.960 exposes this massive flaw in the system of social security 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.320 because the reason, one of the reasons con was so 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.360 successful is that he was getting people benefits in like 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.600 two months. Normally people had to wait eighteen months to 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.320 two years to get their benefits. And that is all 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:20.080 because of the way social security works. It just takes 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.640 so so long to get you approved to get these benefits. 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.800 If the system worked better than things like this wouldn't happen. 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.480 It seems to me, excuse me. The people that are 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:36.200 best at this, whether it be the mcmillions or this um, 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:37.960 they have to have two things. They have to be smart, 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.160 right they have they have to be smart to pull 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:42.280 this kind of thing off. But they have to just 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:46.920 give zeros about anybody that they're affecting. I mean, right, 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:51.320 they don't care about anybody else. Well. Eric C. Khan 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:55.000 is one of the most fascinating complex characters. I think 0:15:55.560 --> 0:16:00.400 in a documentary series. Uh we when we non biased opinion, 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:05.240 it's it's obviously can we start calling him Eric con artist? Please? 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.440 I mean he just I think when people watch the 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:15.720 documentary series, you're gonna go into it thinking you know 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.400 who he is. Uh, and you're gonna have strong feelings 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:23.000 about him, and then by the fourth episode, by the end, 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:26.440 you might have a completely different feeling about him. Uh. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.440 And are you gonna make us like this guy? Yeah? 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:34.520 Reasoning is he giving all the money to charity? I 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:36.160 don't even I don't even think like that. I think 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.040 it's more of a feeling that you might have. Um, 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.280 I don't know if you'll know how you'll feel. You 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.280 you're just gonna feel different. Um. But you know when 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.440 you talk about like what is it about these people? 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.400 Is it narcissism? Is it greed? Uh? Is it the 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.720 lack of shame? Right? Which you know it very well 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.720 could be. Um, and that could be a superpower, right, 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.720 Like I don't give him so I'm gonna all right, 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.640 I don't know. Wow, he's been acting really strangely are 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:08.800 we are we allowed to swear you haven't listened to 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.359 the podcast, which is clear, but I mean, well, or 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.600 you didn't listen to me thirty seconds ago I said, 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.720 zero seconds ago. Or you haven't listened to any of 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.160 my stand up. Yeah. No, just go on, guys, go ahead, 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.720 please please feel free to curse. Feel free to curse, 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.760 all right, But you know, at the at the point 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.840 in which you learn about how crazy this crime is, 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:35.119 right Eric, I mean, social security is not a stexy 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.359 um like backdrop for a crime. And it's one of 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.560 the reasons why he got away with it first so long, 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:45.520 because people weren't paying attention or people just didn't understand it. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.000 And when you try to dig in, it's a little complicated. 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:50.879 And so one of the things that we really worked 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.359 hard at was find a way to really help people 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:59.040 understand this in a really entertaining and fun way. And 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.240 because there is a lot of humor, there's a lot 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:06.560 of you know, just quirky, uh, stranger than fiction components 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.560 of the story. But there's also this great tragedy. I mean, 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.560 when when Eric does this, you know, gets away with 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.720 her for ten years, uh, when he finally gets busted, 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.960 he goes on the run, and while he's on the run, 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:25.359 this crazy thing happens in eastern Kentucky, uh, with everybody 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:29.200 who was associated with him in one way or the other. Um. 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.680 And it's part of the devastation of this story as well. 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.360 I feel like we it's hard to follow up questions 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:40.560 about that without giving away too much. It feels like true, yeah, 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.800 well you know, Bob, and weave through the minefield of 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:57.879 giving too much away. Ye. It sounds like there's a 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.080 lot that that that that is going to happen. And 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.160 so it's a four part series, right, correct. So it's 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.800 a four part documentary series on Apple TV Plus called 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:11.480 The Big Hunt coming out Basis and um. It really 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:16.040 takes you through the journey of Eric and you really 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:18.920 start to understand who he is. But at the core 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:23.160 of this entire thing are these two whistleblowers, Sarah and Jennifer. 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.919 They worked for the Social Security Administration in one of 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.880 the local offices in West Virginia and they had been 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:35.480 ringing the alarm bells for years that something was going 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.040 on with one of the judges and with Eric Kahan. 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:41.600 But they were only on one side of it. They 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:43.600 couldn't really figure it out, but they were staying, Look, 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.160 this is not supposed to happen the way that this 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:51.840 is going. And it is fascinating because until Damian Plata, 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:55.720 who wrote the Wall Street Journal article about this, they 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.520 weren't even recognizing local news wasn't wanting to cover it. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.760 People that at work that they were supposed to report 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.240 any sort of wrongdoing or anything to just turn their 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.439 backs on them and and a lot and retaliated against them, 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:13.760 try to get them fired. Um. And so we we've 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.600 really seen this journey what it means to stand up 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.800 for what you think is right, because Sarah Jennifer didn't 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.159 get any sort of benefit at all out of standing 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.800 up against the Social Security administration. Actually quite the opposite. 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:31.480 They were chastise and really like and they they people 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.320 try to get them fired, but they stood up for 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:36.720 what was right. And it also shows, you know, with 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.040 Damien stepping in and shining a light on this and 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.240 then all of a sudden that leads to a Senate 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:45.640 hearing that leads to investigations happening. Um. It shows why 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.520 the news exists because you know, all of us, as 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.360 individual citizens, there's only so much we can do. Our 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:53.560 voice can only be so loud, But when you have 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.200 the megaphone of an EFC, like the Wall Street Journal, 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.600 that really holds a government entity to a task. It's 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:04.440 interesting what you said. I find that more common nowadays, 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:06.480 where people who are afraid to do the right thing 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.240 or to speak up because it's it almost it's like 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:11.520 it doesn't matter the people that say, oh, hey, this 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.399 is people are being hurt by this, this this is 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:15.440 being done, we need to stop this. Then all of 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:17.680 a sudden, those guys get slandered to those guys get 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:20.160 and it's like it's it's a it's a fine line 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:22.439 to walk. So I think there's I think heroes in 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:25.080 that sense kind of stand out more nowadays when they 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.320 can get stuff done and get people behind them. It's hard. 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:29.760 I mean you even see it with the Me Too 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:32.560 movement where some people who come out against people who 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.720 have harmed them. Now people don't want to work with 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:40.200 them for whatever reason, and it's difficult to come forward. 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:42.920 But you know, I would like to just pivot really 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:45.800 quickly and maybe go back to talking about Eric. But 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:51.000 Eric was apparently super popular in Kentucky, right, and he 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:54.600 was touted as this like modern day Robin hood. H 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:59.400 where do you think that that characterization came from? If 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:01.359 you can give us a little nugget without giving too 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:05.120 much a way, Well, in a lot of ways, he 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:09.119 really did want to help people, or at least on 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:13.040 the surface, well it appeared, I mean Elizabeth Holmes said 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:17.119 the same thing, right. I mean, he you know, he 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:20.760 was born in that region of the country, and so 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:23.320 he had seen first him his parents were, you know, 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:26.080 in the cold camps and uh, and so he'd seen 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:29.280 extreme poverty. Um. And so I think that there was 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:33.480 an inherent like interest in wanting to do something for 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:38.000 his area. UM. Now, people can argue that that's not 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:42.919 what his motivations were, certainly, but he was providing benefits 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:46.199 to people who needed them, and he was providing them 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:49.800 faster than anyone else, and he was guaranteeing them when 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.280 other people were having to wait for a year and 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:55.160 a half or more to get their benefits. He was saying, hey, 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:57.320 I can get it too in thirty days, like when 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:01.960 you don't have an income, like you can't wait a year, 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:05.199 especially if you've got real medical problems, like how are 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:09.360 you supposed to survive? Or eighteen months while you wait 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.320 to get an easily check of nine dollars a month 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.800 from the from the federal government. So and that's usually 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:19.880 like at most. So he was able to do something 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:24.159 that no other attorney could, and everybody who went to 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:26.800 him just sall like, okay, well this this person is 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:29.840 saving my life right now. Um. And when you think 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:31.280 of Robin and do you think of you know, stealing 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:32.760 from the ridge and giving the poor like it's a 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:36.040 victimous crime, It's like, well, Eric, you know, had his 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:38.520 deal with a with a judge and he was you know, 0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:43.040 basically cheating the system and and getting money for people 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:46.480 faster because of this you know corruption that was happening 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:50.399 within his you know, popular people. But his you know, 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.840 this idea of it being a victim was crime. And like, oh, 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:56.040 the government has all this money, so who cares if 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:58.879 I'm you know, taking a few million to help my 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:02.960 my neighbors here get their benefits faster. But that isn't 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:05.159 the case. I mean, we all like as far as 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:07.280 you know people in the States, right, like we all 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:09.480 pay in at the system, right our taxes go into 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:12.080 this safety net of social security, and we don't think 0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:14.320 about it now because it's like especially being young, we're 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:18.040 thinking like, oh, it's our parents are grandparents like dealing 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:20.760 with social Security. But there's a huge portion of this 0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:23.800 fund that's allocated to the stability benefits. It's a designed 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:26.360 for people that if you can't work because you've got 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:29.600 injured on a job or just you know, felt ill 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:33.960 and can't you know, perform anymore, like what you know, 0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:36.320 what safety net do we have? And this is it? 0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:39.280 And deaps someone take advantage of it is essentially someone 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:43.879 who's stealing money from all of us. About him, sorry, 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:45.640 as you're talking about him, I like him more and more. 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:47.440 I'm like, ah, I see what he was likable. I 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:49.760 knew that's gonna happen. Now she's gonna want to know 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:53.520 if he's singled there it is. Well, that does get 0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:57.120 into the side of Eric. That is really interesting because 0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:01.320 we talked about an episode and we get a very 0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:04.280 deep into it in episode two. But he's had a 0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:08.080 few wives, so he's always looking back at the list. Really, 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:12.280 it sounds like there's hope for me. I stand by 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:15.080 the modern day robin Hood for you. I stand by 0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:17.960 the modern day robin Hood nickname, because if Robin Hood 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:20.000 was like the world is so upside down. Now. I 0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:23.040 think that's exactly how Robin would Robin Hood would act now, 0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:26.320 It's just it wouldn't be that that glorious like stealing 0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:28.720 from the bridge. There'd be some sort of side takes, 0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:30.480 some sort of shitty thing on the side. I swore 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:34.000 for you guys, and so I stand by that nickname. 0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:36.200 I think you can have it, and Leah, don't pursue 0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:38.959 a relationship with him. I'm not going to, no question. 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:41.320 Do you think that he actually thought he was going 0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:45.840 to get away with it? Oh, you know, we've talked 0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:48.320 to Eric a lot, and it's been really fascinating to 0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:52.919 see the process of topping him over the past almost 0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:58.359 three years. At this point, Um, he never necessarily thought 0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:00.480 he was going to totally get away with it. He 0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:04.119 has been described and even himself said he kind of 0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:07.760 he likes to take risks. One of his best friends 0:26:07.760 --> 0:26:10.359 and old assistants said that she felt like he was 0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:14.960 addicted to risk taking. And you know, in this situation 0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:18.159 the with one of the judges he was working with 0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:21.760 main judge, they talk about and we have this in 0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:25.440 the series that yeah, they could do something and if 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:27.639 anything ever went down, they just take it to the grave. 0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:30.960 But as we all see in this day and age, 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:33.159 there's just way too much evidence, way too much of 0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:36.439 a paper trail. Uh. Technology is too good to be 0:26:36.560 --> 0:26:41.040 able to just keep anything secret basically anymore. Um. And 0:26:41.119 --> 0:26:45.239 so it is definitely in a situation where you just 0:26:45.280 --> 0:26:48.240 try to stay present and think, well, this is working now, 0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:50.639 and you know, in the future, I'm sure I'll be 0:26:50.680 --> 0:26:53.120 able to figure something out to get to get out 0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:56.200 of it. Yeah. There there's a lot of different ways 0:26:56.240 --> 0:27:00.800 to think about this, because when we were making mcmillions, UH, 0:27:00.840 --> 0:27:03.639 there's always the people who are in in you know, 0:27:04.000 --> 0:27:06.679 working with Jerry Jacobson that said like, okay, this is 0:27:06.720 --> 0:27:09.480 the last one, this is the last time. But with 0:27:09.840 --> 0:27:12.800 Eric uh and what's revealed in the documentary series, and 0:27:12.840 --> 0:27:15.640 we talked about it early on, it's just the relationship 0:27:15.680 --> 0:27:19.080 he has with this one special judge and between the 0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:22.240 two of them. Uh, there's you know, the judges helping 0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:25.560 rubber stamp all these people through the system, and the 0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:30.720 judge has what is called judicial independence. So there's kind 0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:34.240 of this loophole in the system where they have the 0:27:34.280 --> 0:27:38.439 ability to make decisions whether or not someone gets benefits 0:27:38.520 --> 0:27:42.639 independent of anybody else. With no oversight and that, and 0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:46.160 and that's how they realize like, hey, there's nothing anybody 0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:49.600 can do about what we're doing. Um I can put 0:27:49.640 --> 0:27:52.520 a hundred percent of the people through the system and 0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:58.120 nobody can do anything about it. Uh. But obviously, as 0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:00.960 the you know, this goes on for years and years, 0:28:01.000 --> 0:28:04.119 and these whistleblowers who actually worked, you know, within the 0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:07.640 Social Security Administration are saying, hey, something is not right here, 0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:11.960 like there, this system is not it's not designed like 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.600 this and it's not supposed to be functioning like this. 0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:17.919 But you you'll see within the documentary series like just 0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:22.439 how broken it is that, you know, they couldn't they 0:28:22.440 --> 0:28:25.199 couldn't get the word out. They couldn't they were trying 0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:29.080 to like make the point to supervisors, they were trying 0:28:29.080 --> 0:28:30.760 to go to press, they were trying to go anyway. 0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:33.600 No one wanted to touch it until this one Wall 0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:38.520 Street drone reporter independent on his own, started looking into 0:28:38.520 --> 0:28:42.960 this and realizing, like, how is it possible a judge 0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:49.320 it's approving of all cases that he sees when the 0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:51.959 average you know, administrative law judge like does like sixty 0:28:51.960 --> 0:28:54.480 and this guy is like doing twice the three times 0:28:54.480 --> 0:28:57.080 as many cases per years everybody, Like it just doesn't 0:28:57.120 --> 0:29:03.480 add up, like of the people you see not be disabled. Wow, 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:08.880 But but doesn't it also show the loopholes and the 0:29:08.920 --> 0:29:11.320 issues with the system itself. It's almost like he should 0:29:11.320 --> 0:29:14.680 be thanked for showing the ways in which people can 0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:21.000 calm the system. Yeah, not really, we can say that 0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:28.120 that he exposed the issues. You guys don't want to 0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:32.440 thank a criminal, that's so weird. Yeah, I'm thankful that 0:29:32.480 --> 0:29:34.880 when we have a story to tell that includes them. 0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:39.080 But yeah, but really it does show like huge, very 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:42.719 huge flaws in Social Security and that is the massive 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:45.880 underlying thing with us. We we lure you in with 0:29:45.920 --> 0:29:49.200 the craziness of Eric, but there's actually a point to 0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:54.360 this entire situation, which is Social Security administration really has 0:29:54.400 --> 0:29:56.640 a lot of huge flaws. It's one of the largest 0:29:56.760 --> 0:30:00.600 entities in American government. It's one of the largest budgets, 0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:03.240 and if there's a lot of money, people are going 0:30:03.320 --> 0:30:06.800 to try to exploit it. But this really shows that 0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:10.200 human beings that are waiting for their benefits, that need 0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:12.600 those benefits shouldn't be waiting a year and a half. 0:30:12.640 --> 0:30:17.280 They need help now. And to be able to show 0:30:17.360 --> 0:30:20.280 how this is exploited and it's funny. And when we 0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:24.840 talked to the Senate Subcommittee of Investigations who looked into 0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:27.920 this to really lead onto this big Senate hearing, which 0:30:28.080 --> 0:30:33.480 is a very climactic moment in the series. They talked 0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:36.320 about the fact that they came to the realization and 0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:39.480 senators came to the realization that nobody had really asked 0:30:39.480 --> 0:30:43.200 for records from the Social Secure administration for about fifty years. 0:30:43.680 --> 0:30:47.120 They kind of just let Social Security do their own thing. 0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:52.320 But every single government entity needs oversight. It doesn't matter 0:30:52.440 --> 0:30:55.360 what it is. There's a reason for checks and balances 0:30:55.720 --> 0:30:59.760 because things can get loaded, things can get continue to 0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:02.520 run in a certain way, become very comfortable, and if 0:31:02.520 --> 0:31:05.280 you're not trying to make things more efficient, then you're 0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:08.280 just hurting the people who need it most. Yeah. I mean, 0:31:08.440 --> 0:31:10.880 I know that we don't have as much time with 0:31:10.920 --> 0:31:13.280 you as we want, so maybe we could just ask 0:31:13.280 --> 0:31:19.840 a final question. Great, thank you, So that'll be a 0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:23.520 goals perfect. So you know that you know you've studied 0:31:23.840 --> 0:31:27.320 multiple con artists at this point through the years, do 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:29.440 you feel like there's a common through line or a 0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:33.280 common thread that they share personality wise that you've seen 0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:38.600 or noticed. Yeah, I think that there. I mean, I 0:31:38.600 --> 0:31:42.560 don't know if there's necessarily a common through line, but 0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:50.720 there's definitely the uh ability to as James pointed out before, 0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:53.720 is like to take that risk, you know, inherently, Like 0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:56.920 we all kind of ponder like if you could you know, 0:31:56.920 --> 0:31:59.760 if you I mean we talked about with Mgmion Psyche 0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:02.480 if you saw you know, a wallet on the ground 0:32:02.480 --> 0:32:05.040 and had you know, ten thous dollars in it? Uh, 0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:09.040 Like what compels you to pick that wallet up and 0:32:09.280 --> 0:32:12.720 return it to the rightful owner with all the money 0:32:12.720 --> 0:32:15.760 in it? Um? But if no one's around, like, and 0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:18.560 you need the money, Uh, what's not to stop you 0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:20.560 from just taking it and saying, hey, this is my 0:32:20.640 --> 0:32:24.240 lucky day. And we're always you know, we find ourselves 0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:29.560 in these unique moments of life where we're conflicted or 0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:32.760 we we have to make a choice about what's the 0:32:32.840 --> 0:32:34.560 right thing to do and what's the wrong thing to do. 0:32:35.000 --> 0:32:37.520 And I think what's fascinating with this is it's an 0:32:37.520 --> 0:32:41.480 illustration of what happens when someone leads, you know, leans 0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:45.760 into that temptation. Uh, when someone says, hey, I'm just 0:32:45.800 --> 0:32:48.360 gonna go for it. Um, I think what happens in 0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:50.600 a lot of these cases is you get away with 0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:53.920 it once and you're like, oh my gosh, there was 0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:57.840 a thrill to it perhaps, or like, look, it's not 0:32:57.960 --> 0:33:01.240 hurting anybody, so let me do it again. And then 0:33:01.240 --> 0:33:05.560 it becomes so systematic and you're not even thinking that 0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:08.959 you're committing a crime. Um And I think a lot 0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:11.040 of people talk themselves into thinking, hey, I'm kind of 0:33:11.080 --> 0:33:13.640 owed this for something. They justify it with something else 0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:16.680 in their life. Right, it's the rationalization that you can 0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:19.200 go down and you get away with a little bit. 0:33:19.240 --> 0:33:21.480 You can get away with a little bit. And the 0:33:21.520 --> 0:33:24.720 thing that we always see is that, unfortunately, and everyone's 0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:27.480 experienced this, greed gets the better of you if you 0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:30.080 let it. And on the other side of that is 0:33:30.720 --> 0:33:34.479 that level narcissism of I'm owed this. This is I'm like, 0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:37.360 I'm not hurting anybody. The U. S. Government is the 0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:41.000 largest entity on the planet basically, so what if I'm 0:33:41.040 --> 0:33:44.160 taking a few extra million dollars from them? How's that 0:33:44.240 --> 0:33:47.880 going to affect a budget that's trillions of dollars? And 0:33:48.000 --> 0:33:51.600 it is we just we've we've with mcmillions. It was 0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:54.960 funny because and all in all, they stalled about four 0:33:55.160 --> 0:34:00.080 million dollars. This is five and fifty million dollars, and 0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:03.640 but the motivations are very much the same. Yeah. Well, 0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:07.280 and I think that there's there's probably commonalities too with 0:34:07.920 --> 0:34:11.400 childhood or some sort of trauma or some experience that 0:34:11.480 --> 0:34:14.719 really affected kind of how like in the case of 0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:18.120 Eric's ekhan in a story like we we actually we 0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:22.600 talked about Eric's mom and what he was like his 0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:24.560 relationship with his mom, and we feel like in a 0:34:24.560 --> 0:34:29.440 lot of ways, like that did affect his desire to 0:34:29.560 --> 0:34:33.280 get out there, his desire to be recognized, his desire 0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:38.080 to do something that was meaningful, and you know, I 0:34:38.200 --> 0:34:41.040 had to have some success in a small town. Like 0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:43.680 he was a he wasn't he was a geniue. I 0:34:43.719 --> 0:34:51.320 mean he self proclaimed genius by the way. He uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:34:51.360 --> 0:34:56.960 So I'm now a fraud con person. Yeah, So, you know, 0:34:57.000 --> 0:35:00.879 there's there's a lot of commonalities, but there's also there's 0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:03.520 got to be something that you can trace back to 0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:07.879 early in life with all these people that's like, hey, 0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:11.320 I you know, this is the reason why I decided 0:35:11.400 --> 0:35:14.400 to pick up that wallet and claim the ten thousands 0:35:14.400 --> 0:35:16.359 of my stuff rather than try to do the right 0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:20.560 thing that makes sense. I mean, I'm I'm more totally 0:35:20.600 --> 0:35:24.120 interested in knowing more about the Halloween themed brothel and 0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:28.000 wondering if if people were having sex and zombie which 0:35:28.040 --> 0:35:35.000 and sexy Donald Trump costumes. Uh, that whole thing. That 0:35:35.160 --> 0:35:37.880 is one of the most shocking things we've found out about. 0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:43.239 When we're talking to people about Eric, it came up that, oh, yeah, 0:35:43.400 --> 0:35:46.439 Eric had a brothel. Because part of what you learned 0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:49.919 in the series is that one week out of every 0:35:49.920 --> 0:35:53.600 single month, Eric would fly somewhere around the world to 0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:57.360 try and basically find a new wife, women a biza. 0:35:57.719 --> 0:36:01.560 Sorry what so he's getting a you know, the the 0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:04.200 conjugal visits you might have to go to talk but 0:36:05.560 --> 0:36:07.160 if only you do how many times I talked about 0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:10.920 conjugal visits? Okay, go on. So we we find that 0:36:10.920 --> 0:36:12.719 he's traveling around the world doing other stuff, and then 0:36:12.760 --> 0:36:15.200 it comes up that like, oh, at one point Eric 0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:19.320 bought a brothel and owned and random brothel, and we're 0:36:19.360 --> 0:36:22.120 just mind blown about this whole thing. I mean, our 0:36:22.560 --> 0:36:25.160 entire team we worked with here at fund Meter was like, 0:36:25.880 --> 0:36:28.960 is this is this real? Then we start researching it 0:36:29.040 --> 0:36:31.880 and sure enough. Yeah. I even talking to Eric. He 0:36:31.920 --> 0:36:34.600 talks about it in the series of you know, was 0:36:34.640 --> 0:36:38.279 it a brothel? Was it a go go? And he 0:36:38.560 --> 0:36:41.200 one of my personal favorite quotes of it. You know, 0:36:41.200 --> 0:36:43.839 it was like, you know, you go there and if 0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:46.560 you like it, you take it home. That's that's sort 0:36:46.600 --> 0:36:51.120 of how he looked his go go slash brothel. But um, 0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:54.440 it is it is a wild scenario. And uh, I 0:36:54.520 --> 0:36:56.680 really wish it still existed because I'd love to go 0:36:56.719 --> 0:37:00.880 to Thailand and uh has a pat Hi there? I haven't. 0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:04.160 I haven't heard anything. After Leah suggested that there was 0:37:04.200 --> 0:37:07.880 such a thing as a sexy Donald Trump costume, I 0:37:07.960 --> 0:37:09.799 was like, I was like, is it Is it a 0:37:09.840 --> 0:37:14.800 good thing that we don't have any photos? Or I 0:37:15.239 --> 0:37:17.760 want to see that. I could see it now, someone 0:37:17.840 --> 0:37:20.800 just with a spray tanned orange face, with white eyes, 0:37:20.840 --> 0:37:25.879 a wig and just nothing else. All right, moving on, 0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:31.880 So everyone's gonna have nightmares tonight thanks to me? Or 0:37:31.960 --> 0:37:34.600 is there anything else about the show? Any last thoughts 0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:36.960 that you want to tell us or the listeners about, 0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:41.279 or any parting words that you want to share. I mean, 0:37:41.280 --> 0:37:43.280 I think one of the things that you said before 0:37:43.320 --> 0:37:48.160 about like you know, you know, standing up for what's right, 0:37:48.280 --> 0:37:51.120 and like there's a there's an inspirational side to this 0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:56.440 story as well, And there's also a cautionary tale of 0:37:57.200 --> 0:38:01.000 what happens when you can are a problem. Um, because 0:38:01.440 --> 0:38:05.400 with our two whistleblowers, they were saying, hey, there's a 0:38:05.440 --> 0:38:09.640 problem here, and they were being ignored, and they were 0:38:09.640 --> 0:38:11.960 being were time and time again. What happens with a 0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:14.400 problem when you ignore it. It doesn't just go away 0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:17.360 like a lot of people wanted to. Uh, it just 0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:20.439 becomes a bigger problem and a bigger problem. And this 0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:25.160 is really a horrific illustration of how big that problem 0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:29.080 can get and how can affect so many people. And 0:38:29.160 --> 0:38:32.120 I had just one person early on just said you 0:38:32.120 --> 0:38:35.879 know what, right, there's a problem here and I can 0:38:35.880 --> 0:38:38.920 help stop it. But so many people avoided it, and 0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:41.760 then people went out of their way to actually stop 0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:45.440 them from making that problem known to other people. And 0:38:45.920 --> 0:38:49.000 it so I think that there's a great cautionary tale 0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:52.160 in this story. So it's got everything. It's got humor, 0:38:52.320 --> 0:38:57.960 it's got tragedy, it's got inspiration, it's got sell them 0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:05.680 sell it's got from Halloween being yeah, yeah, the underlying 0:39:05.719 --> 0:39:11.560 sexy Donald Trump's is we just like as outrageous as 0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:15.520 Eric is, and he's crazy and saying and fun and 0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:18.080 just watching his commercials will make you laugh. But at 0:39:18.160 --> 0:39:20.920 the same time, there are people that are still fighting 0:39:20.920 --> 0:39:22.959 to try and get their benefits back. This is still 0:39:23.000 --> 0:39:27.360 a problem right now, and you know, the people that 0:39:27.400 --> 0:39:30.040 are fighting for their benefits have really had a hard time. 0:39:30.080 --> 0:39:33.240 So we're really we hope above anything that this shines 0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:36.279 a light on this entire topic so that the people 0:39:36.280 --> 0:39:39.200 who need help can get it, and that some changes 0:39:39.239 --> 0:39:42.520 at the very top, governments, whole level start to happen 0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:47.239 so things like this don't happen again. Amazing. I'm looking 0:39:47.280 --> 0:39:49.319 forward to it. And on a personal note, I want 0:39:49.320 --> 0:39:51.840 to thank you guys for mcmillions because I was in 0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:53.799 the nineties. I was on a mission to win that thing. 0:39:53.840 --> 0:39:55.120 I had a lot of food I didn't want to 0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:57.440 eat because somehow I thought I was like Charlie and 0:39:57.480 --> 0:39:59.600 the chocolate factory. I saw one of those little things 0:39:59.600 --> 0:40:00.759 on the ground and then I went and I was like, 0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:02.359 that's it, and I picked it up and I never won. 0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:04.200 So the fact that you exposed that there was a 0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:08.040 problem and it wasn't just me um, sadly, I appreciate 0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:11.319 all that. I remember it also as a little kid, 0:40:12.320 --> 0:40:17.600 very very young, because I'm eighteen basically, so I don't 0:40:17.600 --> 0:40:23.120 like that you guys laughed, but uh, well is what's 0:40:23.160 --> 0:40:27.080 the legal drinking age and a visa, isn't it? So yeah, yeah, 0:40:27.160 --> 0:40:31.200 yeah I don't drink, but yeah I'm barely legal. But 0:40:31.320 --> 0:40:33.880 I know I remember it as a kid too. And 0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:38.040 also mcmillian's helped me get through the pandemic. So much 0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:42.000 appreciated to you. We're like, oh, good content, thank you, 0:40:42.280 --> 0:40:44.720 thank you. That's that's awesome to hear. You know. We 0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:48.600 we worked insanely hard on that entire thing, and uh, 0:40:50.080 --> 0:40:52.399 the big con got us through the pandemic because that's 0:40:52.400 --> 0:40:55.959 basically all we've been been doing since the world shut down. 0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:59.200 So that was an interesting challenge, but we we got 0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:02.000 it done well. James and Brian, thank you so much 0:41:02.000 --> 0:41:05.680 for coming on the podcast today, and anyone who's listening. 0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:08.440 If you have Apple tv plus, congratulations you've made a 0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:11.799 great choice. If not, download it now so that you 0:41:12.080 --> 0:41:15.800 can also watch the show. It's coming out May six, 0:41:16.040 --> 0:41:19.520 so tomorrow, and you can also listen to the Companion 0:41:19.560 --> 0:41:23.320 Show on Apple Podcasts. Yes, the Big on on Apple 0:41:23.320 --> 0:41:25.640 TV plus Basics. Then there's a companion podcast. What else 0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:29.560 do we have fun new year? We got a new 0:41:29.680 --> 0:41:35.040 line of kidding. Yeah. Well, if you guys wanted to 0:41:35.040 --> 0:41:38.200 buy my new fragrance, it's Curious by Britney Spears and 0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:42.640 it's out now, so check yourselves at CBS. Gentlemen, it's 0:41:42.680 --> 0:41:44.680 been an honor and a pleasure. Thank you so much 0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:46.319 for coming on the podcast today, and we can't wait 0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:49.640 to watch the show and listen to the podcast. Oh, 0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:51.879 thank you so much for having us. Thanks guys, Well, 0:41:51.880 --> 0:41:54.399 of course, have a good one, all right, you too, 0:41:54.640 --> 0:42:10.279 bye bye ye, all right you guys. In today, our 0:42:10.360 --> 0:42:14.080 hot topics are going to be Dave Chappelle getting attacked 0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:16.880 on stage at the Netflix as a Joke festival, and 0:42:17.400 --> 0:42:20.800 a complaint against Bill Murray over a difference of opinion 0:42:20.840 --> 0:42:22.840 on set shutting down a film. So we're going in 0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:27.000 real Hollywood today. Let's talk about Bill Murray first, because 0:42:27.040 --> 0:42:29.800 I can't even believe anyone would complain about Bill Murray. 0:42:30.200 --> 0:42:33.560 This just seems ridiculous to me. However, I don't know 0:42:33.600 --> 0:42:36.200 if you know this, but there was actually previously a 0:42:36.200 --> 0:42:40.080 complaint against Bill Murray during uh the filming of Charlie's 0:42:40.120 --> 0:42:42.719 Angels in two thousand, when Lucy Lou said that she 0:42:42.840 --> 0:42:45.280 had some issues with him and that he was hurling 0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:47.719 insults at her while doing a scene and some of 0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:52.399 the language was and I quote, inexcusable and unacceptable. So 0:42:52.520 --> 0:42:58.400 interesting to hear that, But now moving forward. Apparently for 0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:01.600 roughly two weeks after search Like Pictures suspended production on 0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:05.280 the film Being Mortal to investigate a complaint filed against 0:43:05.280 --> 0:43:08.560 Bill Murray, the actor described the inciting incident as a 0:43:08.600 --> 0:43:11.960 difference of opinion. During a recent sit down with c NBC, 0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:14.120 Murray said, I had a difference of opinion with a 0:43:14.120 --> 0:43:16.279 woman I'm working with. I did something I thought was 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:19.080 funny and it wasn't taken that way. The company, the 0:43:19.120 --> 0:43:20.960 movie studio, wanted to do the right things, so they 0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:22.759 wanted to check it all out and investigate it, and 0:43:22.760 --> 0:43:25.799 so they stopped the production. Murray said that the woman 0:43:25.800 --> 0:43:28.920 who filed the complaint are they're both trying to make 0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:31.840 peaks with each other. He says, We're both professionals, we 0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:34.120 like each other's work, we like each other. I think 0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:36.160 if we can't really get along and trust each other, 0:43:36.160 --> 0:43:38.520 there's no point in going there's no point in going 0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:43.680 further working together or making the movie as well. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:43:43.719 --> 0:43:46.640 I like Bill Murray a lot. I'm a big fan. 0:43:47.880 --> 0:43:51.400 Yeah yeah, I'm not. I'm not justifying anything that I 0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:54.280 don't know. I don't know what was said, the stuff 0:43:54.320 --> 0:43:57.480 I don't know, the Charlie's Angels things. If something was 0:43:57.560 --> 0:44:01.120 done wrong, then I'm not then I don't advocate that, 0:44:01.200 --> 0:44:03.680 but I really I'm a big fan of his I 0:44:03.760 --> 0:44:07.359 kind of don't. This doesn't feel like a major thing. 0:44:07.600 --> 0:44:09.839 This sounds like maybe somebody was offended or maybe there 0:44:09.880 --> 0:44:12.040 was something, and it sounds like they're working it out there. 0:44:12.239 --> 0:44:14.919 And I'm almost content. And I'm not saying I don't 0:44:14.920 --> 0:44:16.719 want to talk about it, but I'm almost content leaving 0:44:16.719 --> 0:44:18.640 it at that, because I feel like a lot of 0:44:18.640 --> 0:44:21.120 people get involved in stuff that doesn't need it and 0:44:21.120 --> 0:44:23.200 it becomes a bigger thing. I'm not ready to take 0:44:23.200 --> 0:44:25.600 Bill Murray down without the facts, and I don't want 0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:27.000 to take Bill Murray down, and I don't want other 0:44:27.040 --> 0:44:28.920 people take him down if he did something wrong. I 0:44:28.960 --> 0:44:31.719 hope that they can work that out. Do people ever 0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:34.600 know what was said? I don't know. It sounds like 0:44:34.600 --> 0:44:36.480 they're kind of keeping it pretty close to the vest. Now. 0:44:36.600 --> 0:44:39.520 I think I'd be foolish to say no, because I 0:44:39.520 --> 0:44:43.600 think everything eventually comes out. Um, it seems crazy that 0:44:43.760 --> 0:44:46.320 with all the information and the Amber heard and Johnny 0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:49.360 Depp trial, we know everything that happened between them, including 0:44:49.360 --> 0:44:52.000 shifting the bed. How could we not know what was 0:44:52.040 --> 0:44:54.080 said on set? And you know, I think the social 0:44:54.120 --> 0:44:59.080 opinion always impacts the actual decision as well, and and 0:44:59.160 --> 0:45:01.800 you know, it can affect people's careers. So we found 0:45:01.800 --> 0:45:04.960 out that something happened that people didn't think was that 0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:06.799 big of a deal. Maybe it would make this woman 0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:09.960 look really bad and then and it would make the 0:45:09.960 --> 0:45:13.279 studios look ridiculous and everyone look ridiculous. But if they 0:45:13.520 --> 0:45:15.399 if what he said was really bad and they're trying 0:45:15.440 --> 0:45:18.080 to protect Bill, you know, there's just so many ways 0:45:18.080 --> 0:45:21.040 that's can all play out. Yeah, And I think that's 0:45:21.080 --> 0:45:23.520 that's kind of where I'm at. I think we don't 0:45:23.520 --> 0:45:27.960 always need to be a giant court of opinion. I 0:45:28.000 --> 0:45:29.560 think it's good to weigh in on stuff. It's good 0:45:29.600 --> 0:45:32.680 to know stuff. But you know, things happened, you know, 0:45:32.719 --> 0:45:34.520 I know there was this thing recently with Steve Martin 0:45:34.560 --> 0:45:36.279 when people went back and like the King Tut thing, 0:45:36.320 --> 0:45:38.560 and it's like, guys, that was thirty years ago. It 0:45:38.600 --> 0:45:40.759 was a different context. You can't go back and dig 0:45:40.800 --> 0:45:43.479 that up. Granted this just happened now, but I don't 0:45:43.480 --> 0:45:46.840 know that there has to be this. To me, without knowing, 0:45:47.280 --> 0:45:49.200 it doesn't sound like it's there's a major thing. There's 0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:51.640 no police, there's no you know. So it's like, whatever 0:45:51.680 --> 0:45:54.160 it was, it sounds like it can be. It can 0:45:54.200 --> 0:45:57.759 be cleaned up without it without it going through you know, 0:45:57.840 --> 0:46:02.480 the general court of opinion. Man, I wish I knew 0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:05.360 what was said. I really do. I'm so nosy. But 0:46:05.480 --> 0:46:09.719 also because yeah, ay, and be also because you know, 0:46:09.960 --> 0:46:14.000 I think that as a comedian sometimes you just not 0:46:14.040 --> 0:46:18.400 that you don't know the line, but it's just you 0:46:18.440 --> 0:46:20.759 have no filter and you kind of assume around other 0:46:20.840 --> 0:46:23.760 artists you can just be free and be yourself. And 0:46:23.840 --> 0:46:27.400 sometimes it's never meant to make someone feel uncomfortable or 0:46:27.440 --> 0:46:29.600 make someone feel bad. Maybe you're just you know, saying 0:46:29.640 --> 0:46:32.319 something ridiculous or yeah, we have no idea what the 0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:34.120 context was. We don't know if he was talking about 0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:35.640 someone on set. We don't know if he was talking 0:46:35.640 --> 0:46:38.720 about something completely random and she just found it inappropriate, 0:46:39.320 --> 0:46:42.080 and so, you know, it's it's always interesting to see 0:46:42.080 --> 0:46:45.160 how people get slammed for something that maybe nothing or 0:46:45.680 --> 0:46:47.560 or nothing that might be something. There's a lot of 0:46:47.560 --> 0:46:50.600 pressure when you're brought in to do something as a comedian, 0:46:50.719 --> 0:46:53.279 and as a comedian and actor, you know, there's a 0:46:53.280 --> 0:46:55.440 lot of pressure. You're you're almost seen as you know, 0:46:55.440 --> 0:46:57.160 you've got to kind of entertain people on the set. 0:46:57.200 --> 0:46:59.120 You got and I'm not saying that means cross lines, 0:46:59.160 --> 0:47:00.879 but sometimes you feel like, okay, well I gotta do this. 0:47:01.000 --> 0:47:03.440 So it is possible that you would say some stuff 0:47:03.480 --> 0:47:05.880 that normally you wouldn't say, or maybe it was a 0:47:05.920 --> 0:47:08.640 long day and you did. I'm not making excuses for him, 0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:10.120 but I'm saying that this is a thing there is 0:47:10.160 --> 0:47:13.160 pressure to entertain, so it's very possible. Like you said, 0:47:13.480 --> 0:47:15.439 you start, you know, kind of joking around with people 0:47:15.440 --> 0:47:16.920 on the line, gets a little blurred and all of 0:47:16.960 --> 0:47:19.040 a sudden you've gone over it, which it's a lot 0:47:19.080 --> 0:47:21.040 easier to do nowadays. Do you think it's going to 0:47:21.080 --> 0:47:25.480 harm his career this incident. I don't think so. I 0:47:25.520 --> 0:47:27.560 hope not, and I think it's gonna be a little 0:47:27.560 --> 0:47:29.279 bit of a gray area if we don't find out 0:47:29.360 --> 0:47:31.200 what happened, because then people will be like, well, I 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:34.520 don't know what I'm dipping my toe in here, so right, 0:47:35.520 --> 0:47:40.120 I mean, Dave Chappelle survived cancel culture, Joe Rogan survived 0:47:40.200 --> 0:47:42.839 cancel culture. I think that there are some people who 0:47:42.880 --> 0:47:45.520 are so much larger than the entertainment industry that can't 0:47:45.560 --> 0:47:48.240 be canceled. Yeah, and I'd like to Fahil Murray seems 0:47:48.280 --> 0:47:51.520 like one of those people. And Bill Murray is not 0:47:51.600 --> 0:47:54.520 someone that has been you know, um an ass and 0:47:54.600 --> 0:47:58.080 has has done things. He's known for being, you know, 0:47:58.800 --> 0:48:01.360 a good guy and in a lot of different situations. 0:48:02.160 --> 0:48:07.320 Although I've got questions for Lucy Lou. Yeah. Right. Anyway, 0:48:07.880 --> 0:48:13.239 speaking of drama in the workplace and Hollywood, if you 0:48:13.320 --> 0:48:17.360 haven't heard about this yet, just the other night in 0:48:17.480 --> 0:48:20.279 Hollywood at the Hollywood Bowl, Dave Chappelle was tackled by 0:48:20.320 --> 0:48:23.239 someone in the front row who had a gun and 0:48:23.360 --> 0:48:25.640 a knife. How they got the gun in the knife 0:48:25.640 --> 0:48:27.719 into the Hollywood Bowl when they were metal detectors and 0:48:27.800 --> 0:48:30.680 everyone's phones were being locked up is beyond me. Apparently 0:48:30.960 --> 0:48:34.360 they were so consumed with locking up people's phones that 0:48:34.520 --> 0:48:36.440 they missed a gun, Like, how does that not go 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:39.360 through the metal detector. It's all very odd. And apparently 0:48:39.360 --> 0:48:41.319 this guy snuck into the front row. He didn't have 0:48:41.320 --> 0:48:44.400 a front row seat or anything, and he went on 0:48:44.520 --> 0:48:47.280 stage tackled Dave Chappelle and this is all for Netflix 0:48:47.320 --> 0:48:51.319 as a joke, and he came up, he stood up, 0:48:51.400 --> 0:48:53.480 Chris Rock came grabbed the mic. Set is that you 0:48:53.560 --> 0:48:58.720 Will Smith, L O L. And Jamie Fox, Jon Stewart, 0:48:58.840 --> 0:49:01.319 all the other comedians just started running and chasing and 0:49:01.320 --> 0:49:03.680 beating the ship out of this guy along with security. 0:49:03.719 --> 0:49:06.840 He left mangled, his arm was broken, twisted in a 0:49:06.840 --> 0:49:11.279 million pieces. But I mean, man, this is um this 0:49:11.360 --> 0:49:14.480 is pretty despicable. Also, you know, I wonder what the 0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:16.839 motive was. We haven't even gotten there. With Will Smith 0:49:16.920 --> 0:49:18.960 and Chris Rock, we know what the motive was, We 0:49:18.960 --> 0:49:21.600 know what was going on, but with this guy, we 0:49:21.680 --> 0:49:26.000 have no clue. Right And also, you know, there were 0:49:26.040 --> 0:49:32.160 no consequences for Will Smith physically, you know, he professionally 0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:34.279 he's been you know, banned for ten years and blah 0:49:34.320 --> 0:49:36.760 blah blah. But for this guy, he was immediately tackled, 0:49:36.840 --> 0:49:41.840 beat up. It's just interesting to see how there's a 0:49:41.880 --> 0:49:44.680 difference and how people are treated Because a reputation walked 0:49:44.680 --> 0:49:49.320 on stage and smacked Chris Rock. Uh, somebody that was 0:49:49.400 --> 0:49:53.759 unknown jumped up and and and tackled Dave Chappelle, So 0:49:54.040 --> 0:49:56.040 that that's the difference. The difference is people like, oh, 0:49:56.080 --> 0:49:57.799 I know this guy is once he's walking up, what 0:49:57.840 --> 0:49:59.279 he do? Oh I can't believe he did that. That's 0:49:59.320 --> 0:50:01.680 not like him. This is who knows what this guy 0:50:01.760 --> 0:50:05.120 is doing? So they grabbed him and beat him up, 0:50:05.160 --> 0:50:08.480 and you know, neither is correct. Both are scary. Um. 0:50:09.200 --> 0:50:12.720 I tend to think that the obviously that Dave Chappelle 0:50:12.719 --> 0:50:15.520 one is is a is more scary to think about. 0:50:16.320 --> 0:50:20.120 Because I got past security, got on stage tackle him. 0:50:20.160 --> 0:50:24.160 It could have been gun had a gun, I mean, 0:50:24.200 --> 0:50:27.279 I still just don't. Also, that is so bizarre that 0:50:27.280 --> 0:50:28.719 the guy brought a gun but decided to get on 0:50:28.800 --> 0:50:31.200 stage and tackle him instead of using the gun. I mean, 0:50:31.360 --> 0:50:33.080 I just read somewhere that it was a replica gun, 0:50:33.120 --> 0:50:34.759 but then he had a real knife attached to it 0:50:34.800 --> 0:50:38.160 like that right there says there's a whole bunch of 0:50:38.560 --> 0:50:42.000 craziness going through that head. But um, to do any 0:50:42.080 --> 0:50:43.719 of that but um, yeah, it could have been a 0:50:43.719 --> 0:50:45.920 thousand times worse than it was. It could have been 0:50:45.920 --> 0:50:48.160 a thousand times worse. The fact that Dave just brushed 0:50:48.160 --> 0:50:50.920 it off and everyone started making jokes immediately goes to 0:50:50.960 --> 0:50:55.600 show you how jaded comedians are already by violence or 0:50:55.680 --> 0:50:58.439 like expecting something bad to happen that shouldn't be the norm. 0:50:58.960 --> 0:51:01.360 I know, and I'm torn because I really appreciate the 0:51:01.360 --> 0:51:03.759 professionalism of being able to bounce both of them, Chris 0:51:03.840 --> 0:51:06.520 Rock to being able to bounce back and and do 0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:09.239 what you're what you do make people feel a little 0:51:09.239 --> 0:51:11.759 more comfortable to make some jokes about it. But it's 0:51:11.760 --> 0:51:14.040 also like I don't want that. I don't want the 0:51:14.080 --> 0:51:17.600 ability to do that to diminish the reaction to these 0:51:17.640 --> 0:51:20.200 types of things, right, And and I know as a 0:51:20.200 --> 0:51:23.799 comedian I deflect with comedy a lot. In fact, last night, 0:51:23.800 --> 0:51:27.399 I was having a very intense emotional conversation with someone. 0:51:27.440 --> 0:51:29.719 I just made a joke and I just thought, in 0:51:29.719 --> 0:51:31.880 that moment, why did I have to do that? You know, 0:51:31.920 --> 0:51:33.840 it's because I was so uncomfortable that I had to 0:51:33.840 --> 0:51:37.040 bring laughter into it and make it less serious and 0:51:37.120 --> 0:51:40.560 to take away any element of pain or anything for 0:51:40.640 --> 0:51:43.160 me or the other person. And a lot of times 0:51:43.160 --> 0:51:45.120 I'm just you know, I do that, and I think 0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:46.719 that a lot of comedians do that because it's our 0:51:46.840 --> 0:51:51.080 fence mechanism and it makes everything okay. Not everything needs 0:51:51.080 --> 0:51:52.920 to be made okay. Like that's a pretty scary thing 0:51:52.920 --> 0:51:59.520 to happen. But anyway, I mean, look, the podcast wentlong today. 0:52:00.320 --> 0:52:02.839 It's short, but it went long. Does that make sense? 0:52:05.600 --> 0:52:08.800 And now Dmitri has to go be a celebrity And 0:52:09.040 --> 0:52:11.480 I'm sorry, Dmitri. Did you get invited to Tom Cruise's 0:52:11.520 --> 0:52:13.960 new movie premiere? I did. I'm I'm off to the 0:52:13.960 --> 0:52:17.360 top gun Maverick premiere. And will you take photos on 0:52:17.400 --> 0:52:20.759 the red carpet with your arm extended out pretending to 0:52:20.800 --> 0:52:23.320 hold an invisible person so that I can photoshop myself 0:52:23.320 --> 0:52:25.480 into the photos. It's just the way you painted that, right. 0:52:25.480 --> 0:52:28.440 There is probably a no I'll go out and pretend 0:52:28.480 --> 0:52:30.719 to hold an invisible person. I'm probably gonna say no, 0:52:30.719 --> 0:52:32.640 but I'll see what I can do. We don't want 0:52:32.640 --> 0:52:34.040 to seem crazy on the red carpet in front of 0:52:34.080 --> 0:52:36.080 all your peers and Tom Cruise, that's so weird. There's 0:52:36.160 --> 0:52:38.759 enough crazy out there. I think I'm gonna stand and 0:52:38.800 --> 0:52:41.680 stand down on this. Ha ha. Okay, Well, you have 0:52:41.800 --> 0:52:44.440 a fabulous time on the red carpet. I mean at 0:52:44.440 --> 0:52:47.759 the movie premiere tonight. I'm wondering who you're wearing. I 0:52:47.760 --> 0:52:49.440 would love to see photos at the gown, you know, 0:52:49.480 --> 0:52:51.640 I'm just so curious. Well, if you'll have me back, 0:52:51.640 --> 0:52:55.399 I'd love to come back and talk about it. If 0:52:55.440 --> 0:53:00.359 you guys also see a crime in the future, one 0:53:00.400 --> 0:53:03.040 that is Dimitri's hair and makeup that I'm sure we'll 0:53:03.080 --> 0:53:05.560 follow after this, it's gonna be beautiful. It's gonna be 0:53:05.600 --> 0:53:09.560 a beautiful wig. If you see a crime, like, for example, 0:53:09.719 --> 0:53:13.600 if you were at Netflix is a joke last night, 0:53:13.840 --> 0:53:16.160 two nights ago, when this airs, or whenever you're listening 0:53:16.200 --> 0:53:17.840 to it. If you were in there and you saw 0:53:17.880 --> 0:53:20.759 what happened, you're supposed to call us. You know that, right. 0:53:21.040 --> 0:53:23.600 We have a call in number for this exact reason, 0:53:24.040 --> 0:53:26.520 and you know what it is. It's eight six six crime. 0:53:26.680 --> 0:53:30.319 If you witness a crime that's not too scary, you like, 0:53:30.360 --> 0:53:32.239 don't don't call us for the scary ones, you know 0:53:32.280 --> 0:53:33.640 what I mean. Like, that's when you call the cops, 0:53:33.680 --> 0:53:35.560 So we're not the cops. We can't do anything for you. 0:53:35.600 --> 0:53:38.759 We're social slits. You know this crime and you want 0:53:38.760 --> 0:53:41.320 to call and confess. We can help you with that too. Yeah, sure, 0:53:41.640 --> 0:53:44.799 like we'll pardon your sins. We will call in eight 0:53:44.880 --> 0:53:47.439 six six twenty one crime. That's eight six six two 0:53:47.440 --> 0:53:50.600 one two seven four or six three eight six six 0:53:50.719 --> 0:53:54.919 twenty one crime six to anyone crime that's eight six 0:53:54.960 --> 0:53:59.320 six two one two seven four six three. All right, y'all, 0:53:59.719 --> 0:54:03.080 it's day safe. Have a great night that. Don't commit 0:54:03.080 --> 0:54:08.080 any crimes until the next podcast. Okay, love you all. Bye. 0:54:09.000 --> 0:54:15.799 It's real time. Crop it real time Gray, I mean, 0:54:15.880 --> 0:54:18.480 is it actually real time crime or solving anything or 0:54:18.560 --> 0:54:19.960 is that just the thing we say, it's a thing 0:54:20.000 --> 0:54:22.640 we say, got it? Okay, see you next week for 0:54:22.719 --> 0:54:25.520 more real time crime, only on i Heart Radio.