1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Welcome to it could happen here at the 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: podcast about things falling apart and sometimes have you come 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: put them back together. Today it's me Garrison Chris our 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: producer Sophie, and Andrew joins us once again. I love 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: that guy. Me too, Me too, Hi everyone. Um, another 6 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: episode of Andrew talking about whatever he feels like talking about. Okay, 7 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: today's episode, UM, I am happy to announce that I 8 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: finally finally finished Don't Have Everything by gradually. It took 9 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: it took a while, you know, there was some points 10 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: in time, some weeks it just went by way. I 11 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: didn't even like make a dent um. You know, life 12 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: got in the way and stuff. But I finally finally 13 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: finished it and I get to talk voted and say, 14 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: you know, with some authority that I've read dont of Everything. 15 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, it's a very dense book, but it 16 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: was with it. I mean, there are some critiques that 17 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: I've been taking into by some authors in the field. UM, 18 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: and so I highly recommend people look for critiques as well, 19 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: not just you know, taking it to and consuming who 20 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: will seal, but in addition to those critiques, like armed 21 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: with those critiques, UM, such as by people like um, 22 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: what is politics on YouTube? And also a couple of 23 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: academic writers as well. I think you could get a 24 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: lot out of the book, and I certainly have. Yeah, 25 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: this is it. This is a this is a very 26 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: good book, and I'm excited to talk about it because 27 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: I read it like it was a while ago. Now 28 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: like it's like five months ago or something. Wow, talk 29 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: about it. I've been like waiting for I've been trying. 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: I've been I've been picking bits and pieces of it, 31 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: but unfortunately my book list to get through is way 32 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: too long at the moment, so I've not been able 33 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: to actually dive fully into the text itself. Um, but 34 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 1: it is definitely on my list after I get through 35 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: my twenty other books I need to read for my job. Yeah, 36 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: it's a lot, it's a lot. Um. At least we 37 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: got to read books for a living. It was something 38 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: adjacent to that. Um. And I mean it is a 39 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: difficult book. I would say to like discussing its entirety, 40 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: and I didn't. I don't intend to not to read 41 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: any preat or anything, Chris, but I don't tend to 42 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: talk about the entire book, you know, because that's like 43 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: several hundred pages, you know, and each chapter covers like 44 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: so so much UM. But I actually wanted to talk 45 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: about chapter four in particular, UM, where the authors explore 46 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: the concept and the origins in a sense of cultures 47 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: UM in one particular set month. I mean, a lot 48 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 1: of mysteries of the Upper Pelilithic that we don't know, right, 49 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: I mean, that's why the mysteries UM. But you know, 50 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: we've come to learn, you know, through the course of 51 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: the book that this assumption that everything was just these small, 52 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: tight knit bands, UM, and that was just the entirety 53 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: of the human social arrangement into the states. You know, 54 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: at least it's new to the layman to realize that 55 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: this is not necessarily the case, you know, UM, that 56 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: there is a lot more political structural diversity in that 57 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: time period. We don't know at that point in time, 58 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: you know, what languages PEO who were speaking. You know. 59 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: Of course, linguists have been able to like reconstruct like 60 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: proto languages and stuff. And I mean, I'm just a 61 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: hobby Linquist, just like I'm a hobby everything else. But 62 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: I think it's been really cool to see how I 63 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: think was just able to do that, Like can we 64 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: just take a second and to realize that, like linguist 65 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: able to take scraps of existing languages and just kind 66 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: of piece them together to get a sense of like 67 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: how they're related. Like how do you all do that? Um, 68 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: there's a lots we don't know, right, We don't know 69 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: about their language, don't know about their myths, you know, um, 70 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: their conceptions of the soul, what their favorite foods were. 71 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: You know, they ate, but we don't know what like 72 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: Joe Skeleton thoughts about his breakfast that morning. But what 73 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: we do know is that you know, from the Swiss 74 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: Alps to out Mongolia in the Upper Piolithic people were 75 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: using a lot of the same tools, um, playing a 76 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: lot of similar musical instruments, carving similar rather interesting female figurines, um, 77 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: wearing similar ornaments, and conducting similar funeral rites. And there's 78 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: also reason to believe that people actually traveled a lot 79 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: more than we would expect them to do, and tra 80 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: actually traveled a lot good distances then we would expect 81 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: for that time period. I mean, we don't have they 82 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: didn't have rather you know, like cause or or chariots 83 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: or trains or plans or anything like that. So to 84 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: think that these long distance um journeys were occurring, you know, 85 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: places like Australia or in like North America is just 86 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: really interesting to think about. Yeah, I was one of 87 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: your friend talked about Like one of the things I 88 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: thought was really interesting about this is the way that 89 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: they talk about culture areas where you have these like yeah, yeah, 90 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: you have these like very large I mean like almost 91 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: like like half continent sized areas where people are speaking 92 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: similar languages, like the same language, and you have these 93 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: like you have like these clan structures that are like 94 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: you know, you you you can go from like and 95 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: go from like Missouri, and you can end up in 96 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: like Mississippi, and you'll be in a place where they 97 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: still have like you know, the sort of like four 98 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: basic like plan lodges are still the same. You'll beat 99 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: people who are like from your clan. And he has 100 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: this really interesting line about how like sort of kind 101 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: of intuitively like the world's gotten like the world like 102 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: even even when there was like people spread over geographic distance, 103 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: like the world sort of got larger as technology progress 104 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: and not sort of like smaller in the way that 105 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: people sort of think about it, because like I don't 106 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: know instead of there being these sort of like mega 107 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: like culture areas. You can go from one place to 108 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: another and you'll there'll the people who speak the same language, 109 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: and you can sort of slot into the like systems 110 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: that are there. You suddenly have this incredible diversity of 111 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: stuff right right, So I mean specific to like North America. 112 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: You know, Um, we had all these different clan structures 113 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: we usually tend to think of, um, you know, these 114 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: groups says and you know, especially like your immediate relations 115 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 1: with people that you know, it's like close skin family, 116 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um. But there's actually, at least 117 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: in some studies of un together as, there's some suggestion 118 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: that their composition can be quite cosmopolitan. So you know, 119 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: you have these these groups and biological relations might only 120 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: make up a small percentage of like total membership. They're 121 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: actually drawn from a wide pool of individuals of a 122 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: larger stretch of area. You know, not all of them 123 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: even speak necessarily the same first language. Um. This is 124 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: YouTuber Indigenous sonics YouTuber named twin Rabbit, and he had 125 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: this excellent, excellent video I need to rewatch it on 126 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: planes Sign language, which is this um method of communication 127 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:58,679 Speaker 1: that Indigenous Americans um used across you know, the planes 128 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: to conduct trade and diplomacy and discussions, even if they 129 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: didn't share the same language. UM. In Aboriginal Australia, people 130 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: were able to travel halfway across the continent, moving across 131 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: people who spoke entirely different languages, and still find you know, 132 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: camps that had people of you know, their same to 133 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: atomic mighty you know, and those people were we treated 134 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: like their brothers and sisters, you know, so like no 135 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: hanky panky, but you know they had this this you 136 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: know cross continental bond of like hospitality. From the Great Lakes, 137 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: you know, the Louisiana Bayous, you can find settlements of 138 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: people speaking entirely, entirely separate languages, unrelated to their own. 139 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: And yet still you will find you know, bear clans 140 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: or elk clans or beaver clans that were obliged to 141 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: host and feed them, you know. UM. And we could 142 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: only really guess as to like what kind of systems 143 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: were like and how those systems might have worked for 144 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: years ago, you know, in the Upper Pyoithic. But what 145 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: we do see with the you know, similarities and material 146 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: um uniformities and stuff of these different tools and musical 147 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: instruments and stuff suggests that there might be a bit 148 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: of a similar system in place at that time. Roughly 149 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: around like twelve, we see we start seeing like new pottery, 150 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: you know, getting dropped. We started to see the outlines 151 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: of more specific cultures in specific areas, new stone grinding tools, 152 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 1: new ways of preparing and eating wild grains and roots 153 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: and other vegetables, um, Different ways of chopping, slicing, creating, grinding, 154 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: super can train in boiling and store and smoking and 155 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: preserving meats, plant foods, and fish. And so when we 156 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: start to see something that really brings people together, and 157 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: that is cuisine and cuisine you know, being the birth 158 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: of cuisine, being the booth of like really more specific cultures, um, 159 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: you know, the kinds of soups and porridges and stews 160 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: and broths. And basically what they were talking about was 161 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: the way that people who like wake up and eat 162 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: fish stews every morning tend to you know, develop a 163 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: different center themselves relation to their world compared people who 164 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: might wake up in the morning and eat some porridge 165 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: with like berries and wild oats, you know, and then 166 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: from there they start to develop different tastes and in 167 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: clothing you know, in in dancing and drugs and here styles. 168 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: I remember laster on the book um the David's points 169 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: out that some addigenous um Nat American groups who are 170 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: actually known for specific hair styles. And I kind of 171 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: knew that based on the fact that, you know, we 172 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: tend to associate morehawks with people, you know, morehawkey air style, 173 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: morehawk people, but I didn't realize that, you know, other 174 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: groups also had their own kind of like culturally specific 175 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: hair styles, right, And there's also like courtship rituals and 176 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: forms of kinship and styles of rhetoric, and so of 177 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: course you still have these large cultural areas in the Mesolithic, 178 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: larger than some nation states. But he's starting to see 179 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: a bit more specificity, in a bit more diversity in 180 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: shorter um spans of area. If we look at now, 181 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: for example, where you know, we have in the Amazon 182 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: all these different languages and cultures that co exist merely 183 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: kilometers from each other. I think the overall trend um 184 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: of human cultures, you know, over the past tens of 185 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: thousands of years, has been the opposite of marginalization. And 186 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: it makes me think a bit about the whole concept 187 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: of the nation states and how it tries to like 188 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: bring people together to this like one narrow conception of 189 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: what it means to be you know, X, y Z, 190 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: and how humanity naturally seems to like resist that and 191 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: naturally seems to like split all from that. Like, even 192 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: when you have situations with the forceful spread of English 193 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: in you know, the Caribbean colonies, you still see like 194 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: a diversity springing up with a bunch of different unique 195 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: creoles and dialects making the language something different. You know what, 196 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: if not for the enforcement of language satinization through the 197 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: school system, I think you would actually see an even 198 00:12:52,640 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: more rapid um explosion of you know, linguistic diversity developing 199 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: out of these creoles and dialects, you know, like a 200 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: couple of centuries. So now you know, Patua and in 201 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: Creole and British English maybe entirely incompatible. Even in Britain itself. 202 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: You know, you might have a case where London English 203 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: and I don't know, Sussex English or whatever starts to 204 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: sound like entirely different. And we already have that with accents. 205 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: But just to see how, you know, even in short 206 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: spaces of time, a short as a century or two, 207 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: because for example, Trinidad, Um was not always an English 208 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: speaking colony. Um. We actually spoke French Creole for the 209 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: most of our history, and only in the nineteenth century 210 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: did we have that period of Anglicization where English was 211 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: you know, brought in Um. And to see that in 212 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: that short space of time, in that handful of centuries 213 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: that you know not already has its own unique English 214 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: based creole, you know, it's just fascinating to see. Um. 215 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: There's something real interesting to me about the way this 216 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: process plays out because it's it's it's almost like because 217 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: you have this sort of like like you have this 218 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: period and it's the Mesolithic. All the period names are 219 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: blinking out of my head. But like like what you say, yeah, 220 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: like you have this period where you have kind of 221 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: like you have a lot of cultural standardization, like spread 222 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: across a long period, like a bunch of places, and 223 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: it's used sort of as a mutual aid thing. It 224 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: allows people to travel because you can go to a 225 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: place and know that like there will be people who 226 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: are like you there and they will take care of you. 227 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: And it's interesting to me. It's like, Okay, so this 228 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: breaks apart as sort of like these these new cultures 229 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: like a people develop local cultures around like food and 230 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: around just like Graver has this thing that he loves 231 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: talking about. These were talking about for ages called scisspo genesis, 232 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: which is like you have two people, you know, was 233 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: like I think, I think there. His position apples like 234 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: a few people who are arguing with each other and 235 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: they like disagree minor ly over like one thing, and 236 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: then by the end of the argument, like they're they've 237 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: they've taken like completely mutually opposed identities to each other 238 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: based on like an incredibly minor disagreement. And you get 239 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: this with yeah, like you get cultures to sort of 240 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: like define themselves against each other and like they have 241 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: things that they like and things that they don't like. 242 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: It's interesting to me that that you see you see 243 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: the state trying to sort of like reimpose the kind 244 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: of like like forty year old cultural homogey on all 245 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: of these places that are like incredibly not homogeous. But 246 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: they're doing it for like the opposite reason. They're doing 247 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: it because they need senatorization in order to sort of 248 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: like make their make their bureaucratic like systems work better 249 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: and make their sort of like seeing like a stage. Yeah. Yeah, 250 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: and also like like I mean, this is a huge thing. 251 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: Everyone in the in the like the early the late 252 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: nineties and early two thousands thought that like the extent 253 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: of capitalism on the around the globe was going to 254 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: make everything exactly the same, there's only to be one culture, 255 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: and that like kind of really didn't happen. But there 256 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: was this real sort of I don't know, like that 257 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: there was this real sort of fear that that it 258 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: wasn't just gonna be the nation state spreading like comoganization, 259 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: but like capitalism was going to sort of like spread emoganization. 260 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: And I guess I guess the thing that they wound 261 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: up doing aga instead was like figuring out that you 262 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: could just sell everyone into their individual cultural niche, which 263 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: to some extent, yeah, because like we see McDonald's in 264 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: the US and McDonald's in Bangladesh and McDonald's in Japan, 265 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: and they sell all of the same McDonald's stuff, but 266 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: they've also like sort of specified to the you know, 267 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: specific country. Yeah, we have the worst version. The US 268 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: is the worst version of it. By the day. The 269 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: the the like Taiwan has one that has like they 270 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: have like rice sticky rice, patties. It's it's so much 271 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: better than Yeah. I mean, I will say that if 272 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: I did end up traveling to Taiwan, McDonald's probably be 273 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: the last place I would want to go. Yeah, we 274 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: wanted beating there, and we we were we had to 275 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: catch a plane, so we wound up eating like Taiwanese 276 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: Donalds airport food because we had like five minutes. It 277 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: was a you know they say about airplane food. Um, 278 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: but yeah, that's exactly us about to get into. Actually 279 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: the whole idea of cultural differentiation, you know, um, and 280 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: this this tendency of humans have to subdivide and to 281 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: distinguish themselves from their neighbors. And I mean it's natural 282 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,959 Speaker 1: to assume that, you know, this differentiation comes from like 283 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: differences and like language, you know, with you know, language 284 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: splitting off over the centuries and people associating with the 285 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: native language and ethnicity. But I already tell the full story, 286 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: you know, Like, for example, in northern California in the 287 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: early century, the ethern linguistic map had really a jumble 288 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: of languages that drew from entirely different language families. You know, 289 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: it's distant from one another, as like Arabic and Tamil 290 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: and Portuguese. And yet these groups still shared you know, 291 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,479 Speaker 1: broad similarities. You know, how they went to board gathering 292 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: and processing food, you know, their most important religious rituals, 293 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: how they organized their political life. Um. And they also 294 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: managed to keep themselves distinct. You know, you had the 295 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: Iuroque and the Hoop and the Karak and so forth. 296 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: And I mean to some extent, these identities did map 297 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: on to linguistic differences, but their neighbors who spoke different 298 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: languages still had more in common with them than people 299 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: who came from their same language family in another part 300 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: of North America. Of course, you know, European colonization had 301 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: like a severe impact on like how neat Americans were distributed. Um. 302 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: But we still tend to see this trend of how 303 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: like these modern nation states they went around at the 304 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: time to you know, or the population. And since these 305 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: neat ethno linguistic groups. You know, this idea that the 306 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: world should be divided into these like homogeneous units with 307 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: their own history and everyone has a claim to like 308 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: a certain territory and all that. It's mean, it's really 309 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: a concept that is going onto this mythology of the 310 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: nation state and you know, of course, we have to 311 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: be real careful before we project those kind of uniformity 312 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: is back in time. Yeah, it's definitely really like two 313 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: years old, like it's it's pretty young. Yeah, exactly exactly. 314 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: But um, there are some concerns, you know, with the 315 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: concept of culture areas, because that whole notion of culture 316 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: areas came out of North American museums who wanted to 317 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: arrange their stolen artifacts to illustrate their theories of the 318 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: different stages of human adaptation, you know, like Colover's lower 319 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: savagery and upper savagery and Lober lower barbarism and so on. 320 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: And so they had in whether they're in organize these 321 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: artifacts based on like language, family, or regional clusters um 322 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: or some sort of like traced history of of of 323 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: regional of ancient migrations. Right. Eventually they realized that, you know, 324 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: this way of organizing into regional clusters seem to work best. 325 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: The art and technology of different Eastern Woodlands tribes had 326 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: some very similar um things in common compared to like 327 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: trying to group people based on like say the Athabaskan 328 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: language or all the people who relied on fishing, or 329 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: all people cultivate to me is um and they were 330 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: able to find similar patterns in the neolithic villages of 331 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: Central Europe, you know, finding these regional clusters of domestic 332 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: life and art and ritual and so like this whole 333 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: cultural area concept is kind of a way of pushing 334 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: back against this way have you know, talking about humanistry 335 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: that like ranked populations into higher or lower anything. You know, 336 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: this this idea of of claiming that you know, people 337 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: were of a certain superior genetic stock and vicious sign 338 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: ad fance level of technological evolution and so rather this, 339 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: there's been there was a shift in anthropological focus to 340 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: look at the diffusion of more cultural traits like ceramics 341 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: and sweat lodges and you know, the treatment of young 342 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: men or certain sports um as. They wanted to try 343 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: to understand how these different tribes of certain region came 344 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: to share this mesh of culture traits. So one of 345 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: the people who were thinking on this you know, whole 346 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: culture traits cluster idea um it was guy named bous Right, 347 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: and he wanted to figure out why is that, Like 348 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: geography seemed to define the circulation of ideas, you know, 349 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: with like mountains and deserts from these natural barriers, and 350 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 1: how basically the diffusion within those regions was basically historical accident, 351 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: a legal hypothesizing that there was some sort of like 352 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: way to eventually develop a kind of a natural science 353 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: developing how and even predicting the ebb and flow of styles, habits, 354 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: and social forms, and eventually muscle Mouse pulls up, you know, 355 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: and he's basically taught he basically, like right, a bunch 356 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: of essays on nationalism and civilization, and he says, it's basically, 357 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: this whole idea of cultural diffusion is nonsense because it's 358 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: based on a false assumption. And the false assumption is 359 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: that the movement of people, technologies, and ideas is some 360 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: sort of rarity, something unusual. Instead, Mouse argues that like, 361 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: people in past times traveled even more than people do today, 362 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: and it's just that when these people interact with people 363 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: of other cultures and they see their cultural traits, they 364 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: reflect on that and find a way to relate that 365 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: to their own cultures. Right, so that people who are 366 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: traveling back then, obviously all of them, you know, we're 367 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: aware of basketry, you know, or or or feather works 368 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be that other people were 369 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: using a couple of miles away seem to be said 370 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: for like certain drum rhythms or certain you know, games, 371 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: or like For example, he spent some time focusing on 372 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: the distribution of the ball games around the Pacific Ocean, 373 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: around the Pacific Rim from Japan's New Zealand to California, 374 00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: and what he realized is that while the people pick 375 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: up certain ideas certain traits from other cultures, comes down 376 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: to how they'd want to be defined against their neighbors, 377 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: against their closest neighbors. The question becomes less about why 378 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: certain culture traits spread, but why other culture traits didn't. 379 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: Because if you were aware of all the things that 380 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: your neighbors and stuff are doing, all these foreign customs 381 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: and arts and technologies. I mean, we know that the 382 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: Silk Road, for example, when we talk about the Silk Road, 383 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, we had a Silk roup growing from China 384 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: all the way into Europe and all across the Silk Root, 385 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: all across Central Asia and West Asia. And despite that 386 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: constant you know, sharing of ideas, not every idea that 387 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: you know came from China or came from Pussia, or 388 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if Pussia was around during the Silk Rude. 389 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: But you know what I'm saying, like, not every idea 390 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: that was along the Silk roud everyone necessarily picked up on, 391 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: even if it was a technology that might have benefited them, 392 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: because cultures effectively structures of refusal. So for example, um, 393 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,959 Speaker 1: there's this guy on YouTube Religion for Breakfast. He did 394 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: a video recently on the pork taboo in certain cultures 395 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: and certain religions, right, And one of the things he 396 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: pointed out was that the taboo tends to be strengthened 397 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: in times of like repression so for example, or in 398 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: times of cultural um definition. So for example, he was 399 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: pointing out that in the period of Roman conquest, the 400 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: Jewish people were more inclined to define themselves as you know, 401 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: against the consumption of pork, compared to the Romans. You know, 402 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: for example, the Chinese are the people who use chopsticks. 403 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: You know, they don't use knives in four so you're 404 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: the tie of people who use spoons and so on. 405 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: You know, it could just you say it said that. 406 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: You know, it's like aesthetics, like styles of art or 407 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: music or TV man and of course those things won't differ, 408 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: but even like technologies that have like an adaptive or 409 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: utilitarian benefits might still be might it might still be 410 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: refused by people who might even benefit from them. For for 411 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: for example, the Athabaskans in Alaska refused to use Inuit 412 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: kayaks despite the fact that there are a lot better 413 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: suited for the environment and their own boots, and the Inuit, 414 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: for example, don't use Athabaskan snow shoes um at least 415 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: in the time that Marster Mouse is writing. And then, 416 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: of course this is a self conscious process, you know, 417 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: this is a process where a debate and discussion of 418 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: all these different customs would have been occurring. You know, 419 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: for example, pull in the Chinese courts, when different foreign 420 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: styles and customs would you come into the lands, There 421 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: will be debates and arguments put forward by you know, 422 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: the kings and the advisors and their vassals, you know, discussing, 423 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: you know, whether they would ride the horses or drive chariots, 424 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: or adopt like the man chew dress codes and customs. 425 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: And so society's mouth said lived by boring from each other. 426 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: But they define themselves by the refusal of boring than 427 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 1: by its acceptance. The question of how culture areas form 428 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: and how cultures split off is definitely a political one. 429 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: The decision to adopt a certain form of agriculture, or 430 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: to cultivate a certain crop more specifically, or to adopt 431 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 1: a certain style of dress. It's not just like a 432 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 1: matter of like mere utility of maya or caloric advantage 433 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: or material efficiency, or it's also a reflection and questioning 434 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: of the values that that group of people holds or 435 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: purport to hold, who they consider themselves to be. I 436 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: like to think about the development of cultures, you know, 437 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: I like to think about how our ancestors are, distant 438 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: ancestors even consider themselves. You know, it's easy to just 439 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: fall into this trap because it's a very common cultural 440 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: troop that you know, once you go before the invention 441 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,479 Speaker 1: of writing or whatever, all of all answers, tos are 442 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: just like booga boogle cave men kind of thing. But 443 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: to think of them as self conscious and politically um conscious, 444 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: politically considerate, thoughtful actors, not you know, static or passive 445 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: props um. It's just I think it's it's I think 446 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: it's just very cool. I think it's very cool, and 447 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: I think we should keep you know, these developments, these 448 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: this recognition in mind as we you know, in the 449 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: modern time look to try to transform the cultures we 450 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: live under and to try to develop new values, new 451 00:29:55,120 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: values of like anti authority, nism and anti capitalism and 452 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: of you know, agreed to priority on mutual aid and 453 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: on egalitarian and social relations. Yeah. I think there's a 454 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,719 Speaker 1: lot of very interesting political consequences of of thinking about this, 455 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: because like I think that there there's sort of like 456 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,479 Speaker 1: two tendencies that that we sort of get stuck in 457 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: when we think about like our social structures, which is 458 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: there's there's there's one which is the sort of like 459 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: I guess it's called capitalist realism, which is the assumption 460 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: that like nothing else could possibly like this is the 461 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: only system that works, nothing else can possibly exist, and 462 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: that's unproductive. And you know, you go back and you 463 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: look at like any other culture or society and it's like, well, no, 464 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: like there's there's like an unbelievable, like nearly infinite number 465 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: of ways you can organize your society. But then I think, 466 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: I think the second one is that like, yeah, if 467 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: you look at this sort of cultural fusion and culture 468 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: refusal stuff, you see a lot of examples of people 469 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: doing stuff that like under sort of like classical economic 470 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: or like sociological laws, they shouldn't be doing right, Like, 471 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,479 Speaker 1: there there's no reason why you shouldn't using more efficient 472 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: canoe if you're in a place of the part of 473 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: the world that's like extremely hard to surviving, right. And 474 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: I think that there's this tendency to sort of like 475 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: reduced culture, reduced just all of the ways that our 476 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: social and political systems function to these sort of like oh, 477 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,719 Speaker 1: the the product of these like abstract historical forces and 478 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: like it's all like tech, it's all determined by technology, 479 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: and like how you farm and stuff. It's just not true. Yeah, 480 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: I mean, not to say, the material conditions on you know, 481 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: very important in understanding UM, you know, how these cultures develop, 482 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: and that's one part of UM. I don't have everything 483 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: that I found was a bit lacking. I think that 484 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: not all the time those thoughts were clearly connected. Oh, 485 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: i'd see. But I do think people put too much 486 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: stock in solely material materialist um explanations and that kind 487 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: of ends up precluding or leaving out the more messy 488 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: human round of explanation. Yeah, And I think I think 489 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: part of why this happens is that, like, it's much 490 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: if you assume everyone is like behaving a quality to 491 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: historical forces or like the thing that they're trying to 492 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: do is like maximize um, they're trying to maximize their 493 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: utility and they're trying to like maximize the amount of 494 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: calories they have. It that that's a very easy thing 495 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: to like you like think about numerically, right, Like it's 496 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: a very easy thing to refuse the numbers. It's extremely 497 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: difficult to refuse the numbers, like to reduce to like 498 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: reduce two numbers. A society that is like I'm going 499 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: to I'm going to intentionally make my life harder for 500 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: myself because this is the way we do things, and 501 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: we've decided we don't want to do things like other people. 502 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: We've decided that we have some kind of political value 503 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: that we have that makes it such that we're going 504 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: to like induce difficulty into our lives and like that, 505 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, like that that kind of stuff. The 506 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: the fact that culture is not just a sort of 507 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: like superstructure that gets that's like a product of like 508 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: some kind of economic base like that that is very 509 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: important and something that gets ignored or downplayed constantly that 510 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: I think I don't know, and like I think, like, yeah, 511 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: I think I think you can argue that everything like 512 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: maybe goes too far in the other direction. But I'm 513 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: I'm sort of okay with that, just because we've been 514 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: so far on the side of like everything is historical 515 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: forces for so long that you need something to remind 516 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,479 Speaker 1: people that, like, societies make conscious political choices, and not 517 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: only have they made conscious political choices for like tiens 518 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: of thousands of years, like we also can make conscious 519 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: political choices that are not just sort of like pure 520 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: reflections of like how are many tons of iron have 521 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: been extracted? And like what percentage of like workers are 522 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: currently working in hospitals versus like making cookies or something. Right, 523 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: Thank you for that, oh analysis, Chris, I agree that 524 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: that's a joke, Like twelve people will get I I 525 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,320 Speaker 1: love you if you if you understand that joke. Also, 526 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, yes, so you can wrap it up, Carson. Um, 527 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: all of this has been very fascinating. What what I've 528 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: learned the most is that I need to finished reading 529 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: all my books so that I can read the Dawn 530 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: of Everything. Um, I know, I like, I like got 531 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: it from my dad for Christmas, because um, because I 532 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: knew that it would be uh, at least I think 533 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: I did. My memory could be I could actually be wrong. 534 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 1: I could have only intended to get it for my 535 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: dad for Christmas and forgotten to actually get it. But 536 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: I've been reading it to have been meeting to both 537 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: buy it for myself and get it for other people 538 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 1: because I've heard a lot of interesting things about the book. 539 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: So it is definitely on my list. It's been a 540 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: pleasure listening to. Uh, you'll discuss it, um Andrew. Where 541 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: can If people want to check out more of your 542 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: your work? Where could where could they go about that? Right? So, 543 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: you can still find me on Twitter and underscore see 544 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: and Drew when I'm not um hiding, And you could 545 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: also find me on YouTube andrewism, YouTube dot com, slash andreism, 546 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: where I post videos about all sort of stuff, random stuff. 547 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: You know that I'm thinking about politics, history, Well that 548 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: Jazz A few days ago, as the time of recording, 549 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: UM Andrew put out a wonderful video on the solar 550 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: punk stuff. Um. I have no idea what this episode 551 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: will air, so that it's probably been like a month 552 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: or two or something, but definitely check out the Anderism channel. 553 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite spots too. Uh watch something. 554 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: When I feel like I can't put a new words 555 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: on the page, I go watch your things because it's 556 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: very helpful. M Yeah, so that doesn't for us today. 557 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: You can find us that Twitter and on Twitter and 558 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: Instagram at Happened here pod Calls out Media. You can 559 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: find me posting about hyper objects and liminal spaces at 560 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: Hungry bow Tie And I heard that you have a Twitter, Chris. Yeah, 561 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: it's at mc HR three. You can find me mostly 562 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: complaining about other people who are doing communism wrong. I 563 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: guess that most of what I post about. Love that 564 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: for you. You two will be able to differentiate between 565 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: the sixteen different for ecceitly, which there's not even sixteen. 566 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: There used to be long ago in a galaxy far 567 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: far away, and made a decision, and that was that 568 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,800 Speaker 1: I was going to sacrifice my brain to understand the 569 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: different kinds of Maoism and if too want to understand 570 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: why it still exists in all twenty varieties of them, Yeah, 571 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 1: go there. If you don't want to do that, do not. 572 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 1: You'll be happier. Well, what a ringing endorsement. Uh, goodbye, 573 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: everyone go. I don't know, should should we should we 574 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,320 Speaker 1: plug up? Pull at the other shows? Yeah, I guess 575 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: everyone's tune out at this point. I hope they've all 576 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: stopped the podcast player. I think. I think, uh yes, 577 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: go outside and be free there, I can you can 578 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: you can edit that into something that is more concise. Sorry, 579 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: Daniel Slash, I don't care. It could happen here as 580 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. Well more podcasts from 581 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,839 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com, 582 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, 583 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 584 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: find sources for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at 585 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: cool zone Media dot com Slash sources. Thanks for listening.