1 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts. 3 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 2: My name is Ruine Colbert. Several years ago, shortly after 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: I moved to Anchorage, Alaska, I hoped down the barrel 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: of a gun in a public park and my world 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: changed forever. I'm not a hero. I did the wrong thing. 7 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 2: Those stories of those people in the middle who aren't 8 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 2: the hero, I mean they might be somewhat of a 9 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 2: villain for not fulfilling there what we generally think of 10 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: as our human obligation to do the right thing at 11 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: the right time. 12 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 3: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that should cases miraculous 13 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 3: accounts of human fragility and resilience from people his lives 14 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 3: were forever altered after having almost died. These are first 15 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 3: hand accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes 16 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 3: with death. Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share 17 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 3: these stories to remind us all of our shared human condition. 18 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 3: Please keep in mind these stories are true and maybe 19 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 3: triggering for some listener. Discretion is advised. 20 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: I grew up in the agricultural Midwest, where when I 21 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 2: would step out of the house, I would look out 22 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: and see miles and miles of cornfields, and like some 23 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: of my earliest memories are being able to go outside 24 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 2: and I would hear that the little metal flap on 25 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 2: the hog troughs close whenever hogs were done eating, and 26 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: you could hear that closing of the flat for miles. 27 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: There was really like nothing blocking that sound. And so 28 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: I was really lucky as a kid. I was able 29 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 2: to just go outside and play. Summers off from school 30 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: just involved roaming the creeks and timbers and bicycling to 31 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: different farm ponds to bass fish. I look back and 32 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: I was really lucky. It was a great childhood. It 33 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 2: was a strange path, but it ended up going through 34 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: college and living in some larger cities. And I met 35 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: a couple who had worked seasonally in Alaska for a 36 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 2: lot of years, and they kept telling me, room, you 37 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 2: got to come up to Alaska. You'll like it. And 38 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: I got the opportunity and I did. I ended up 39 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 2: flying back to the Midwest and I had a car, 40 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 2: and storage got in the car and drove to Alaska. 41 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 2: There was this point it's called the alcan Highway, the 42 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 2: Alaska Canada Highway, and this was before I mean, you 43 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: could have a GPS I'm sure, but this is at 44 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 2: a time when I think most people just had an 45 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 2: atlas and would drive from the map. And so there's 46 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 2: this section of the highway that it weaves back and 47 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: forth between British Columbia and the Yukon, and there was 48 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 2: mountainous forests everywhere. I hadn't seen a car in probably 49 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: an hour, and I had this like revelation that I 50 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:42,119 Speaker 2: was like, this is the most beautiful place I've ever been. 51 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,839 Speaker 2: This feels more like home than any place I've ever been. 52 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 2: When I landed like permanently in Alaska, I lived about 53 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 2: an hour from work in Anchorage. There's a little farm 54 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 2: town called Palmer. Lived about fifteen minutes outside of that town, 55 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: and it was maybe a six hundred square foot a 56 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 2: framed cabin on about five acres. Rarely head moose coming 57 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: through the yard. It was I mean, I would say 58 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 2: I found my like the Rovian ideal and really enjoyed 59 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 2: it there. I was living alone in that cabin for 60 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,239 Speaker 2: several years and Headlfe arranged where I could have a dog. 61 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: I really lucked out finding Birdie, I referred to as 62 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: a flat coated retriever, but she was a whole mix 63 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 2: of different breeds, and the same day I got her, 64 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 2: we would be outside exploring the yard, come back inside. 65 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: We're going in and outside, and one of the times 66 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: I opened the door and then I hid behind it. 67 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: I wanted to see what she and then once she 68 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 2: came in, she was kind of frantically looking for me, 69 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: and then I jumped out behind the door and scared 70 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 2: her and she loved it. And it wasn't five minutes 71 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: later that we were going back outside again. I let 72 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: her out and I was doing something in the kitchen, 73 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 2: then stepped out onto the deck and she was gone, 74 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 2: and it was like I would panic. It was like 75 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: I just got this dog. I thought we were having fun. 76 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: She ran off and as I stepped off the deck, 77 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 2: she came from behind the steps in under it and 78 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: just put her nose on my hand and scared me. 79 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: And like it was it was at that moment that 80 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: I knew that this was the right dog for me. 81 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 2: By one of the benefits of this place that I lived, 82 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: it was just miles of hiking. Over the next several weeks, 83 00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: we would just we would go for walks and she 84 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 2: was always two steps behind me, and eventually I stopped 85 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: and I said, do you want to go first? And 86 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 2: her ears perked up and she ran in front. Yeah. 87 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 2: We were a great team, but being able to live 88 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: at that place and then commute to the larger city 89 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: of Anchorage for work was practically impossible. And then the 90 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: dating and farm town didn't go very well. There weren't 91 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: there were not very many people to choose from. Ended 92 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: up finding someone who lived in Anchorage and she wasn't 93 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: leaving Anchorage, so that led to me moving into Anchorage. 94 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 2: And Anchorage is by far the largest city I've ever 95 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 2: lived in. I hadn't been living in Anchorage very long, 96 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 2: and at the time I was a pretty avid runner. 97 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 2: Running like it clarifies the brain somehow, or I don't 98 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: even I don't even know what it does, but there's 99 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: some sort of clear thinking that happens during a run 100 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: or after a run, or something along those lines. And 101 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 2: when I lived out in Palmer, I mean I loved it. 102 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 2: I would take the dog Bertie for runs all the time, 103 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: even if it was twenty below we would go out. 104 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: And one of the things that I enjoyed most about 105 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: it out there was I lived rural enough I did 106 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: not have to put her on a leash we could go. 107 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: She knew the route, but she was a fantastic dog. 108 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: And we got to a point that we would be 109 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: about a core mile from home and I could turn 110 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: to her and I would say, let's finish strong and 111 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: take off running, and we would race to the house 112 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 2: and then she would sprint and run up to the 113 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: door and win every time, and she'd be so proud 114 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 2: of winning. But we really, I mean, we just had that. 115 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I hate I keep emphasizing how idyllic it was, 116 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: but I really had a place that I enjoyed. And 117 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 2: then moved to Anchorage and time to leash up the 118 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: dog and going for a run just wasn't the same experience. 119 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: So it was. 120 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 2: I mean, it was within a couple of weeks of 121 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 2: moving to town, like still getting settled in in the 122 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 2: big city as far as I concerned. We ran to 123 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: Earthquake Park. The parking lot for the park joins the 124 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: Coastal Trail. We made a turn heading down the hill 125 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: on the Coastal Trail. I mean, I can. 126 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 4: See like. 127 00:08:53,840 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: This, It's like it happened yesterday. There was a person 128 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 2: near the bottom of the hill and was wearing a 129 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 2: green jacket and walking. It was a summer day, so 130 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 2: I'm wearing running clothes. Even in Alaska in the summer 131 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: day that means like short sleeve shirt and shorts. This 132 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 2: person was wearing clothes that looked like they were ready 133 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 2: for a rainstorm, perhaps in twenty to thirty degrees, like 134 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: even colder. The person wasn't dressed for conditions, but that's 135 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: not all that unusual, Like in Alaska, you just you 136 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: never know, you dress for whatever weather that could happen. 137 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: But from I mean probably forty yards away, it was 138 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 2: like this person just doesn't it doesn't look right. And 139 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 2: I had no idea what it was, but it was 140 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 2: like something wasn't right. But I have the dog on 141 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 2: the leashed and I'm just trying to run and clear 142 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 2: my head. And as I approached, I could see his 143 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: face really clearly, and it was like his face just 144 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 2: looked gray, like it just it didn't have the right complexion, 145 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: and it looked like there was just he was having 146 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 2: a really bad day and he was just like mulling 147 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 2: over something that was I don't know, eating away at 148 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 2: him or I don't know what, but it was like 149 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 2: this person just doesn't This person's been having a bad 150 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 2: time at life. Growing up in such a rural environment, 151 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 2: you know, always think that people are friendly and you 152 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: like you wave. I grew up waving to other vehicles 153 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 2: that I saw on the road. You know, would certainly 154 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: give a friendly smile to people when I was in 155 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: the grocery store or anywhere else, because that's I guess 156 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 2: that sort of like world decorum that I'm used to, 157 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: and so I you know, I tried to give him 158 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: a smile, and I I don't know if he was 159 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 2: even like looking at me or looking at my at 160 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 2: my face, but he lifted up his shirt and pulled 161 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 2: a gun out. 162 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 4: It was. 163 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 2: It was just so far out that I didn't necessarily 164 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 2: believe that what I was seeing was really happening. I mean, 165 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 2: there were actually quite a few things that started going 166 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 2: through my head, but it was just like just seeing 167 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 2: the gun, I was like, this is this is strange. 168 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 2: But I'm kind of a new person in this strange place, 169 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: Like it's just like this is this is different. And 170 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 2: then he pointed the gun at me, just like straight 171 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 2: straight at my body. I mean thinking about you know, 172 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 2: like in the wilderness part of like a Denali experience 173 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 2: pretty often would be seeing snowshoe hairs, and generally that 174 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: leads to conversations about fight or flight, right, And that's 175 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 2: the typical responses that anyone engages in when they have 176 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 2: some sort of dangerous encounter. But snowshoe hairs have like 177 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 2: they have a different response, and not that they don't 178 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 2: don't run, but their first stage is just like freeze 179 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: up and stay still and rely on camouflage. And so 180 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: you know, I a lot end up making fun of 181 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: the snowshoe hair is like they got the number three right, 182 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 2: they have the freeze up. But then essentially that's what 183 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: that's what I did along the trail was I just 184 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: was like it was just so paralyzed that I didn't 185 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: I didn't understand this situation. I just I didn't know. 186 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do. And I certainly have 187 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 2: a lot of thoughts about what I would have liked 188 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: to have done differently, but. 189 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 3: Like I had. 190 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 2: All I could do is I just like smiled at 191 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: him and I looked down at the dog, and I 192 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 2: was like, I guess accepting that I that I was 193 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 2: gonna die m and I didn't know if he would 194 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: kill the dog too, Like that was by who I 195 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 2: was thinking about. Was Bertie just watching her and basically 196 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 2: just waiting for her to happen. She looked up at 197 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 2: me several times, like she's always always checking in with me. 198 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: There's some stranger. 199 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: And I mean it sounds silly, but often when you 200 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: encounter someone, you smile and they and they smile back right, 201 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 2: and there's this exchange that takes place, and even if 202 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 2: that person is sad like most times, they're still able 203 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 2: to smile back. And it sounds like so silly, but 204 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 2: I really believe that you give them some of your 205 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 2: happiness that at least gives them that ability to smile. 206 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: So so that's what I did, Like I was looking 207 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 2: down at Bertie, just trying to give the man a 208 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: little bit of the happiness that I had in my life. 209 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: I can still see, like flat coded retrievers have long 210 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 2: fur like a golden retriever, and so I can still 211 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: see like that long fur hanging off of her ears, 212 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 2: and when she would run, the wind would just cause 213 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 2: that to go back just a little bit. I've replayed 214 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 2: it a lot, and I had like such a strong 215 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 2: bond with her that like even with a loud gunshot, 216 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 2: I don't think she would have left me ran off, 217 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: she would have she would have stayed, And I mean, 218 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: I'll never know, but I really can't help but think 219 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 2: that because I didn't play his game like whatever he 220 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: wanted me to do as far as responding, and I 221 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 2: just I just looked at the dog that like that 222 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 2: helped save my life, right because he probably wanted me 223 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: to be scared. I don't know, like what chess moves 224 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 2: a person like that is making. But yeah, I didn't 225 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 2: play that game, like, I didn't play the same game 226 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 2: as him, And if I were running alone, it would 227 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: have been a different game. But I had Birdie next 228 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 2: to me the whole encounter. I mean, it just took seconds, 229 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 2: but it felt like it felt like an eternity. It 230 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: was playing out enough that I kept being surprised that 231 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: I wasn't dead yet, or I guess it was more 232 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 2: of the opposite of being surprised I was still alive. 233 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: Eventually I was right next to him and he just 234 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: like lowered the gun and put it back, put it 235 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 2: back in his pants, And it was like, right at 236 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: that moment that I heard people talking behind me. They 237 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: must have just entered the tree like how I had, 238 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 2: And so I don't know he he made the decision 239 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 2: not to kill me because I guess there were some 240 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 2: witnesses or something, I don't know, and they would have 241 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 2: been too far away for him to shoot. Like I really, 242 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 2: I have no idea, But getting past him just took 243 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: I could just took all the breath out of me. 244 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 2: It just like my legs. I could hardly I could 245 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 2: hardly walk, but I just I had to keep going. 246 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 2: There was a curve in the trail, and I was like, 247 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 2: I just I have to get around this curve. And yeah, 248 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 2: I made. 249 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: It there and just just watched. 250 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: I couldn't move, so I was enough around the curve 251 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 2: that there were some rather thick trees that I could 252 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 2: kind of keep between even though the distance was growing, 253 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 2: but I could keep between myself and that person, and 254 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 2: I was able to watch. It was these two they 255 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 2: seemed like they were in high school. Maybe they were 256 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 2: in college, but these just these two kids by just 257 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 2: walking down the hill and they just they just walked 258 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 2: right by him, didn't take any notice of him or anything. 259 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 2: So like I was in such disbelief or my head 260 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 2: was spinning that I needed like to like really understand 261 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: this situation. It's like, I think I needed him to 262 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 2: pull the gun on them, and then from their reaction 263 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 2: that would have solidified that that had really happened, but 264 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: they just they just walked by, and it was it 265 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: was just even it was just even more mind boggling. 266 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 2: And then a bicyclist came by the other direction, and 267 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 2: I wanted, I wanted to stop him, but I don't know, 268 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: I wasn't able to. But I I just it was 269 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 2: like I need some sort of confirmation and I didn't 270 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 2: get it. 271 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: It was just. 272 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: It was like my my brain had been put in 273 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 2: a blender, and so I ended up like I couldn't. 274 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 2: I just couldn't run anymore. I tried to run home, 275 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 2: but I couldn't. I couldn't run home, ended up doing 276 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 2: this combination of walking and running. I listened for gunshots. 277 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 2: I was like, is I give me, give me something real? 278 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 2: And then ended up at home. So I just I 279 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: waited to watch the news that night. Did someone get 280 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 2: shot or did other people experience you know, I was 281 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 2: looking through the newspaper, was looking for anything that could 282 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 2: confirm what had happened had actually happened, and there wasn't there. 283 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: There wasn't anything, so. 284 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 2: I just tried to go about normal life. Tried to 285 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: go for a run the next day, but I didn't 286 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: make it out of the neighborhood. I just couldn't do it. 287 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: Even for years afterwards, would have friends that would try 288 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 2: to say, Hey, let's go cross country skiing along the 289 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: trail or whatever, and I just couldn't go to that place, 290 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 2: and felt really good when we moved away. Weeks had 291 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: gone by, and it was actually a Huffington Post article 292 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 2: that said that Anchorage has a serial killer, right, and 293 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 2: so it came from outside of Alaska, big headlines serial 294 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 2: killer in Anchorage on the trail system, which is exactly 295 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: where I was, and like so there suddenly there's validation 296 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 2: that the experience I had, like really had, which then 297 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 2: like mentally elevated it even more. But it also it 298 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: also brought in a lot of guilt for not going 299 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 2: to the police, and that's a lot of guilt I 300 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 2: still have to this day, because I by the time 301 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 2: I had learned about the serial killers, so much time 302 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: had passed that I didn't feel like I could offer 303 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 2: anything valuable, and more people died. If I would have 304 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 2: gone to the authorities, I could have done something different. 305 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 2: And helped it at least helped the police do their jobs. 306 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: I just. 307 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 2: It's really hard to explain, explain a situation because it 308 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 2: was just such it's just so surreal. I mean, I 309 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 2: look back and I would have done a lot of 310 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 2: things differently, but at the time, I kin don't know. 311 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 2: I was just trying to get through one day to 312 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 2: get to the next. 313 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: I guess. 314 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 2: Weeks after we learned that there was a serial killer 315 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: on the trails, they finally showed a like a photo. 316 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: They had an. 317 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 2: Artist's sketch and that was it was. That was him, 318 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 2: and and then the news story where a police officer 319 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 2: had had shot and killed him. The experience has just 320 00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 2: totally changed my personality and the ways that I'm able 321 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 2: to deal with people. It just rears itself. It just 322 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 2: comes back. There's no way to predict. 323 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: It's just there. 324 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: It's just blooming. I try to find ways to understand 325 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: my behavior, and I think about the like hundreds experiences 326 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 2: I've had around grizzly bears. At one time, I was 327 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 2: fishing with a buddy during the salmon run, and bears 328 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 2: know when the salmon run is happening too. There was 329 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: a limit of three sack eyed salmon. So trying to 330 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 2: just get the limit and go. But as we were fishing, 331 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 2: I heard splashing coming up a side stream behind me, 332 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 2: and it was two young bears. The term is sub adults. 333 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 2: One of the problems with some adults is they're in 334 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 2: that teenager stage where they push boundary, because that's what 335 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 2: happens with teenagers. And so these bears they looked at me, 336 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 2: I looked at each other, and then kept coming and 337 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: they did that multiple times, to the point that they're 338 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 2: now twenty feet away. I think my buddy is behind me. 339 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 2: Neither one of us had brought bear spray, neither one 340 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 2: of us had brought a gun. We were just going 341 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 2: to catch our fish and go. And I didn't know 342 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 2: what else to do, but I charged the bears, shouted 343 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 2: as loud as I could, and I ran at down 344 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 2: and they took off, running out of the screen into 345 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: the woods. Could hear them crashing through the forests. And 346 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 2: then of course we gathered up our fish and gear 347 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 2: and just left. That sort of being in the outdoors, 348 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 2: I would say, is where I have found peace. I mean, 349 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 2: probably all my life, and that's the life that I enjoy, 350 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 2: and the life that has always been difficult for me 351 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 2: is you know, the wilderness of people, I guess, which 352 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 2: is one of the reasons why the big city feels 353 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: uncomfortable to me, and probably one of the reasons why 354 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 2: I didn't understand the experience with the man was just 355 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 2: because I don't know. I can't read people in the 356 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 2: same way that I can read stuff in the outdoors. 357 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 2: Acridge has had no shortage of serial killers. There's this guy, 358 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 2: he abducted a girl from a coffee stand. I don't 359 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 2: remember those details entirely, but there was a young person 360 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: that I was working with at the time who just 361 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: met just like had started forming this working relationship, and 362 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 2: all of a sudd and like she just she just vanished. 363 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 2: And then several weeks later she shows up and she's distraught. 364 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 2: She's just a totally different person. But it turns out 365 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 2: she was supposed to have been working that night in 366 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 2: the coffee stand, and the only reason she wasn't at 367 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 2: work was because she had to trade schedules. She saw herself, 368 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 2: she could have she could have been that person, and 369 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 2: she wasn't in a good place. And I believe I 370 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 2: told her, you know, after she shared that information, she 371 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 2: should feel lucky, she should feel lucky to be alive. 372 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 2: She didn't. That was so far, so far off the radar. Yeah, 373 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 2: and then. 374 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 4: You have that same experience or someone someone says you 375 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 4: should feel lucky to be alive, and it's just not 376 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 4: you just that's not the situation, Like the pain involved 377 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 4: to reach that, it's easier to just bury it. 378 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 5: You are able to feel deeply a measure of compassion 379 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 5: for her, the person who was working at the coffee stand. 380 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 5: What do you make of the. 381 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 6: Fact that you're unable to sort of extend the same 382 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 6: just kind of simple compassion to yourself. 383 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 2: Good question, Kate. I don't know, really, I don't know. 384 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 1: I don't know. 385 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 2: I don't know if I if I have an answer 386 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 2: to that. 387 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: I guess. 388 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 2: In a lot of ways, I would prefer to be 389 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 2: having this conversation today, just because it it just dredges 390 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 2: up so much. I don't know why why I'm sharing 391 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 2: the story. I don't I certainly I'm not a hero. 392 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 2: I did the wrong thing. So I guess if there's 393 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 2: any if I can find any positive thing to say 394 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 2: about sharing the story now, it's maybe that there's some 395 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 2: other people out there that that can hear it and 396 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 2: realize that they're not alone in some of the experiences 397 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 2: they've had. In story culture, there's like quite often a 398 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 2: you know, the strong distinction between hero and villain, those 399 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 2: stories of those people in the middle who aren't the hero. 400 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 2: I mean, they might be somewhat of a villain for 401 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 2: not fulfilling there what we generally think of as our 402 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 2: human obligation to do the right thing at the right time. 403 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 2: For whatever reason, they might not they just might not 404 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 2: have their head on right to be able to do that. 405 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 2: But that's not typically, that's not part of our story 406 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 2: telling culture. We like actual heroes and villains because that 407 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 2: has an ending. It leads to somewhere, and it leads 408 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:37,479 Speaker 2: to some sort of climax with the resolution. But a 409 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 2: lot of stuff in our lives. 410 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: Doesn't have that. 411 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 2: Life itself keeps going forward. 412 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: Welcome back, this Isn't Live Again. 413 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 3: Joining me for a conversation about today's story are my 414 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 3: other Alive Against story producers Kate Sweeney, Nicholas Dakowski, and 415 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 3: Brent Dye, and I'm your host Dan Bush. Today's episode 416 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 3: it covers a really fascinating story and though in this story, 417 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 3: the brush with death is not one that's as physical. 418 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 3: It is a real adventure in what it does to 419 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 3: your mind to be under such a threat. And I 420 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 3: found it fascinating. Can you tell me some more about 421 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 3: why you Kate, why you chose the story, of why 422 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 3: you were attracted to the story. 423 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 6: I mean, this was somebody just going through his every 424 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 6: day the way that you and I might, you know, 425 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 6: here walking on a public trail when suddenly his life 426 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 6: is completely upended and somebody pulls a gun on him. 427 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 3: So what's your takeaway from this story? 428 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 6: This was a tough one, Dan, And you know, to 429 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 6: be honest, you know, after talking with Rune, this experience 430 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 6: of hearing his story and interviewing him stuck with me 431 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 6: like kind of really bone deep for weeks and weeks, 432 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 6: mainly because of the guilt that he says he still 433 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 6: carries around with him, because you know, you want to 434 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 6: in part, you know, my role is I'm the interviewer, 435 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 6: but I wanted to be able to maybe kind of 436 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 6: do some of what his coworker wanted to do for 437 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 6: him and what he wanted to do for his other 438 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 6: coworker when they're in this really difficult spots in their life, 439 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 6: to kind of like make them feel empathy for themselves. 440 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 6: You know, of course, being traumatized can put us into 441 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 6: a place where we can't be expected to behave practically, 442 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 6: And you know, I could see him holding himself to 443 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 6: this standard of like, you know, I should have I 444 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 6: should have told the cops, I should have tackled this 445 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 6: guy on the trail. Lots of I should have. And 446 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 6: I think we all tend to do things like that 447 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 6: or tend to say I should have in situation. Yeah, 448 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 6: we tend to have these sort of replays with situations 449 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 6: like this, and I think it's essential to be able 450 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 6: to offer ourselves the same grace that we'd offer to 451 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 6: other people. And I think of friends I had in college, 452 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 6: you know, who experienced sexual assact And it might have 453 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 6: been like some guy that everybody knew, and they didn't 454 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 6: turn that person in, but we their friends didn't expect 455 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 6: them to because we all knew what what that friend 456 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 6: would be in for should she do that. But also, 457 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 6: but above and even beyond that sort of being able 458 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 6: to have that empathy for that person, like, no, you're 459 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 6: in this traumatized place, the onus isn't now on you. 460 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 6: So I mean, my main, my main sort of feeling. 461 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 6: Still is my sincere hope that Rune. I mean, I 462 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 6: you know, I got to know him. He's a sympathetic, 463 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 6: warm caring, very sensitive individual. 464 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: I hope that. 465 00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 6: At some point he's able to have this experience is 466 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 6: never going to go away. Right now, he wishes that 467 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 6: it would just go away, and I get that, but 468 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 6: I wish for him the ability to forgive himself, to 469 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 6: forgive himself, yeah, and to have this be a thing 470 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 6: that happened to him and not a thing that keeps 471 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 6: happening to him. 472 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: Wow. 473 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 3: It's funny because all we are privy to usually is 474 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 3: the hero story. He We're privy too, like we hit. 475 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: A lot of we don't ever hear about all. 476 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 3: The people who had encounters and were so human and 477 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 3: you know they reacted in a different way, which is 478 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 3: human exactly. And you know, we're held to this narrative 479 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 3: standard that's part of the mythology of our culture. That's like, oh, well, 480 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 3: you should have done something. You should have been a hero. 481 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 3: You should have tackled the guy to the ground and 482 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 3: wrestled the gun from him. You should have gone to 483 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 3: the cops and together you would have searched and found 484 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 3: this guy and saved others and that that's an unrealistic 485 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 3: uh sort of, that's an unrealistic expectation of a human being. Yeah, 486 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 3: and those those hero stories, there's there may be something 487 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 3: else going on there. You know a lot of times 488 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 3: when I hear about people who did react and did 489 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 3: do something dramatic to try to save the day, they're 490 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 3: coming off of some other strange guilt. 491 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't. 492 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 3: I don't know the process of self forgiveness. Like you know, 493 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 3: a lot of people have Jesus or they have some 494 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 3: other sort of transcendent thing that can help them in 495 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 3: that process. 496 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 4: Maybe. 497 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 3: But you know, if if you're left to your own devices, 498 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,959 Speaker 3: how do you cope with that experience? And I can 499 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 3: I can only imagine the PTSD of that guilt and anyway. 500 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, can I say too. 501 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 6: I was also so moved by the just the sensory 502 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 6: details that he included in the story, like his memories 503 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,720 Speaker 6: from childhood of hearing the creaking of the hog trough 504 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 6: across the miles when he's off, you know, playing, or 505 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 6: that other moment on the Alcan Highway of realizing, in 506 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 6: this moment, this is my home. It's just beautiful you know, 507 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,320 Speaker 6: I'm just amazed at people who found a spot on 508 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 6: the on the globe that their spirit feels really connected to. 509 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 5: I love that. 510 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 6: But I'm also really grateful to Run for being able 511 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,959 Speaker 6: to share those beautiful moments with us in the midst 512 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,240 Speaker 6: of this very difficult story. 513 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 7: It's almost like it's almost like the the man with 514 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,760 Speaker 7: the gun is this human intrusion into this unique place 515 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 7: of nature that he's found, Like it's bringing the loneliness 516 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 7: of the dog and there. Yeah, like he's bringing Like 517 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 7: when you told the story to us at Waller's Coffee House, 518 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 7: I was thinking, this is like a Raymond Carver story 519 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 7: or something. It's the endemic loneliness of society, you know, 520 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 7: like the figure that you don't even know what's driving 521 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 7: this person with the gun to put Ruine in this 522 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 7: position and how it carries through his life, you know. 523 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 7: Is it's almost like something that'd be explored in literature, 524 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 7: you know, like and have it disrupt that natural area, 525 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 7: and it's just it's the story. One of the stories 526 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 7: I did too. They encounter a shooter and her immediate 527 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 7: feeling for him was I don't have any hatred or anger. 528 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 7: I just wish they could have felt this love that 529 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 7: I have, you know, like he had with the relationship 530 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 7: with his dog. You know, I just think that that 531 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 7: was his instinct. Is so interesting that, you know, rather 532 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 7: than trying to flee or think of inflicting harm on 533 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 7: this person, he was just like, I just wish you 534 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 7: could feel this love. 535 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I agree. That was really beautiful. 536 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 3: Next time I'm alive again, we meet Dory Nolt, who 537 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 3: nearly died after a routine cesarean section due to medical negligence. 538 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 3: Her journey of healing and overcoming the trauma highlights the 539 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 3: maternal mortality crisis in the US. 540 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 8: Research tells us number one women are ignored by medical professionals, 541 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 8: but also women ignore themselves. This changed how I saw 542 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 8: my own mortality. I was laid out by this infection, 543 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,240 Speaker 8: and when I almost died and I was so weak, 544 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 8: it certainly made me see how fragile life actually is, 545 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 8: and my life especially. 546 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent die, 547 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakowski, and Lauren Vogelba music by Ben Lovett, additional 548 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick 549 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 1: and Trevor Young Special. Thanks to Alexander Williams for additional 550 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima L. Kali and 551 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: Noames Griffin. Our editors are Dan Grhartslovic Got, Brent Die 552 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: and Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing by Ben love It and Alexander Rodriguez. 553 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: I'm your host Dan Bush Special. Thanks to Rune Pullback 554 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: for sharing his story. Alive Again is a production of 555 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: IRT Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If you have a transformative 556 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 1: near death experience to share, we'd love to hear your story. 557 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: Please email us at Alive Again Project at gmail dot com. 558 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: That's a l I v e A g A I 559 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: N p R O j E c T at gmail 560 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: dot com.