WEBVTT - Episode 1: The Campaign 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:22.596 Pushkin. Okay, so, how are you going to start this? 0:00:24.116 --> 0:00:26.916 Well, I'm really excited. This is kind of new for us. 0:00:27.236 --> 0:00:32.396 Absolutely a little role reversal. Amy gains McQuaid as my producer. 0:00:32.916 --> 0:00:35.236 She's worked on the past four seasons of deep Cover. 0:00:35.836 --> 0:00:38.716 It may not have heard Amy's voice about in effect 0:00:38.996 --> 0:00:42.156 you did, because when we do a season of deep Cover, 0:00:42.756 --> 0:00:45.516 Amy's the one that reads through all thousand pages of 0:00:45.516 --> 0:00:49.196 the court transcript and knows every last detail. She's the 0:00:49.196 --> 0:00:52.036 one who helps me track down sources and wed through 0:00:52.116 --> 0:00:55.076 hours of interviews to make the episodes that you've heard. 0:00:56.396 --> 0:00:58.756 So while we're hard at work on the next season 0:00:58.796 --> 0:01:01.476 of deep Cover, we have a special mini series for 0:01:01.556 --> 0:01:05.036 you in a brand new format. About a year ago. 0:01:05.316 --> 0:01:08.036 Amy comes to me and says, look, there's this story 0:01:08.076 --> 0:01:10.796 I really want to report. A story that took place 0:01:10.916 --> 0:01:13.836 in fact where Amy grown up, A story about a 0:01:13.876 --> 0:01:17.396 man who may just be one of the greatest liars 0:01:17.676 --> 0:01:21.316 of all time, which got my attention because it sounded 0:01:21.316 --> 0:01:25.276 an awful lot like a deep Cover story unfolding in 0:01:25.396 --> 0:01:25.916 real time. 0:01:28.036 --> 0:01:30.676 George Anthony de Volder Santos, Oh. 0:01:30.556 --> 0:01:32.516 Good morning, chabach allom too, everybody. 0:01:33.516 --> 0:01:36.636 This is him speaking to the Republican Jewish Coalition in 0:01:36.756 --> 0:01:37.516 twenty twenty two. 0:01:38.116 --> 0:01:41.036 I'm a first generation born American, like many in our 0:01:41.076 --> 0:01:44.556 great nation. My parents came to this country in search 0:01:44.596 --> 0:01:45.596 of the American dream. 0:01:45.996 --> 0:01:46.356 Today. 0:01:46.796 --> 0:01:49.196 He ran for Congress to represent New York's third District 0:01:49.276 --> 0:01:52.076 on Long Island, which is where I grew up. And 0:01:52.276 --> 0:01:55.276 a huge part of his message was this that he 0:01:55.916 --> 0:02:00.676 was the embodiment of the American dream. And that message 0:02:00.676 --> 0:02:01.876 worked because he won. 0:02:02.636 --> 0:02:05.596 Only in this country can the little boy born in 0:02:05.596 --> 0:02:08.476 a basement apartment in Jackson Heights, Queens in New York 0:02:08.516 --> 0:02:12.236 City become a United States congressman at thirty four? 0:02:13.636 --> 0:02:16.116 Okay, interesting, So I know there's a lot more that 0:02:16.196 --> 0:02:18.836 he said on the campaign trail, but can you just 0:02:18.876 --> 0:02:19.796 give me the recap. 0:02:20.476 --> 0:02:23.556 So the version of George Santos that he sold on 0:02:23.596 --> 0:02:28.316 the campaign trail was that George Stantos was a successful 0:02:28.356 --> 0:02:32.676 businessman working in the financial industry. He claimed that he'd 0:02:32.716 --> 0:02:36.716 worked for Goldman, Sachs and City Group. He claimed that 0:02:36.876 --> 0:02:40.836 he had gone to college at Baruch and NYU. He 0:02:40.876 --> 0:02:44.396 had also told some stories about his personal life. 0:02:44.916 --> 0:02:47.236 I'm very proud of my Jewish heritage. I'm very proud 0:02:47.276 --> 0:02:49.036 of my grandparents' story. 0:02:49.156 --> 0:02:52.676 Claiming Jewish heritage and said that some of his family 0:02:52.676 --> 0:02:56.676 members had survived the Holocaust. Here he is speaking to 0:02:56.916 --> 0:02:58.996 a reporter for a Jewish news service. 0:02:59.476 --> 0:03:01.676 I'm so proud to be able to keep our family 0:03:01.716 --> 0:03:04.076 going forward and showing that not only did we survive, 0:03:04.516 --> 0:03:07.036 but now I'm able to go advocate and fight for 0:03:07.236 --> 0:03:09.996 other Jewish people all across my my district. 0:03:10.676 --> 0:03:13.756 So the story that he told was an inspiring one. 0:03:14.396 --> 0:03:18.476 Here he was the son of Brazilian immigrants who had 0:03:18.516 --> 0:03:21.996 built this impressive life for himself, living in New York 0:03:22.036 --> 0:03:25.436 City as an openly gay man, working on Wall Street, 0:03:26.036 --> 0:03:29.956 getting into politics, and it seemed like this moment when 0:03:30.036 --> 0:03:33.276 he won would just be the cherry on top. He 0:03:33.436 --> 0:03:34.836 was going to be a congressman. 0:03:35.396 --> 0:03:38.796 I mean, it's inspiring. I'm kind of inspired hearing it. 0:03:39.356 --> 0:03:43.876 But in the coming weeks and months, another narrative would 0:03:43.956 --> 0:03:49.236 start to emerge, a different version of George Santos, one 0:03:49.276 --> 0:03:52.396 that was far more alarming. And if it were true, 0:03:52.596 --> 0:03:56.956 then this was a man who lied, cheated, and stole 0:03:57.076 --> 0:04:01.556 from people who trusted him, basically one man with two faces, 0:04:02.316 --> 0:04:06.756 and it left a lot of people, including myself, wondering 0:04:07.596 --> 0:04:12.276 who is the real George Santos. I think the thing 0:04:12.276 --> 0:04:15.436 that a lot of people might remember is the New 0:04:15.516 --> 0:04:19.156 York Times story that broke in December of twenty twenty two, 0:04:19.716 --> 0:04:21.156 because it was pretty explosive. 0:04:21.436 --> 0:04:23.036 Yeah, I remember that headline. 0:04:23.476 --> 0:04:27.676 The story revealed that Santos had essentially fabricated a lot 0:04:27.716 --> 0:04:32.156 of information on his resume. But through my reporting, I've 0:04:32.156 --> 0:04:34.956 been finding that that story was really just the beginning. 0:04:35.956 --> 0:04:38.516 So George Santos is actually scheduled to go to trial 0:04:38.636 --> 0:04:42.316 in just a few weeks in September. He's facing a 0:04:42.356 --> 0:04:49.036 whole bunch of charges, wirefraud, money laundering, falsifying records, identity theft, 0:04:49.876 --> 0:04:53.516 a whole bunch. I've been talking with lots of people 0:04:53.836 --> 0:04:57.636 to essentially try and figure out how did George Santos 0:04:57.676 --> 0:05:00.556 go from lies about where he went to school and 0:05:00.596 --> 0:05:05.196 where he worked to allegations of serious federal crimes, crimes 0:05:05.196 --> 0:05:07.476 that could land him in prison for roughly two decades, 0:05:07.796 --> 0:05:11.596 and just how deep to his go. This is deep 0:05:11.636 --> 0:05:25.876 Cover George Santos, Episode one the campaign. Jake, I want 0:05:25.876 --> 0:05:27.916 to go back in time to that moment when the 0:05:27.916 --> 0:05:31.916 New York Times story broke, because that's when the cracks 0:05:31.996 --> 0:05:37.156 in Santos's facade really start to show. Okay, So two 0:05:37.276 --> 0:05:39.836 journalists at the New York Times, their names are Grace 0:05:39.996 --> 0:05:44.676 Ashford and Michael Gold, they come out with this massive story. 0:05:44.996 --> 0:05:49.276 It's called who is Rep. Elect George Santos? His resume 0:05:49.596 --> 0:05:53.956 may be largely fiction. The headline from this story is really, 0:05:54.676 --> 0:05:58.916 maybe this guy isn't who he claimed to be? And 0:05:58.956 --> 0:06:02.356 that for me was a moment where I heard from 0:06:02.396 --> 0:06:04.956 basically everyone in my life who knew I was from 0:06:05.036 --> 0:06:07.276 Long Island and knew that I worked on stories like this, 0:06:07.436 --> 0:06:12.036 and just you know, asking me, what the fuck what 0:06:12.396 --> 0:06:15.276 happened here? Who is this guy? And how did he 0:06:15.316 --> 0:06:19.556 get elected? He's, you know, living this double life essentially 0:06:19.596 --> 0:06:21.516 who he says he is in public, but who he 0:06:21.596 --> 0:06:24.756 actually is in private. And one person who is in 0:06:25.036 --> 0:06:29.436 the center of this mess was George Santos's communications director. 0:06:30.276 --> 0:06:33.556 Her name is Nasa Woomer. Do you remember where you 0:06:33.636 --> 0:06:36.596 were when the New York Times story broke? Oh? 0:06:36.636 --> 0:06:36.996 I do? 0:06:37.236 --> 0:06:41.956 I know exactly where. I was actually coming out of 0:06:42.076 --> 0:06:46.756 the Starbucks and it broke, and I was heading into 0:06:46.796 --> 0:06:48.276 our office right by the State House. 0:06:48.796 --> 0:06:52.396 And the timing here is really interesting because she actually 0:06:52.436 --> 0:06:56.716 accepted the job right before the New York Times story broke. 0:06:57.156 --> 0:07:00.556 Everyone is sending like, Niassa, have you seen this? Oh 0:07:00.556 --> 0:07:03.116 my god, is this the guy you're working for? My 0:07:03.196 --> 0:07:06.716 stomach had dropped, and I thought, what the well, I 0:07:06.716 --> 0:07:09.796 don't want to say the F bomb, but but that's 0:07:09.796 --> 0:07:10.996 what I'm thinking. 0:07:11.236 --> 0:07:13.196 At this point, like how many days on the job 0:07:13.316 --> 0:07:13.516 is she? 0:07:13.716 --> 0:07:16.796 By the way, so Nesa hasn't actually started working for 0:07:16.876 --> 0:07:20.956 Santos in that moment. She's still working in Boston for 0:07:21.076 --> 0:07:25.276 the Republican administration there, so she's not actually even in 0:07:25.316 --> 0:07:28.676 touch with George Santos. But she did hear through the 0:07:28.676 --> 0:07:33.156 grapevine through some staffer that a story about Santos would 0:07:33.156 --> 0:07:33.636 be coming. 0:07:34.076 --> 0:07:35.956 I already knew there was going to be a hit piece, 0:07:36.396 --> 0:07:39.436 but my understanding was that this was just going to 0:07:39.516 --> 0:07:41.156 be We thought it was going to be a traditional 0:07:41.236 --> 0:07:45.156 hit piece of conservative Republican Flip's Democrat seat. 0:07:45.956 --> 0:07:47.796 But of course that was not the New York Times 0:07:47.796 --> 0:07:51.236 story at all. The New York Times story made clear 0:07:51.276 --> 0:07:54.156 that a lot of the stories that George Santos had 0:07:54.156 --> 0:07:58.076 told on the campaign trail were at best inaccurate, at 0:07:58.076 --> 0:08:04.396 worst entirely fabricated. And so after the story publishes, Santos 0:08:04.396 --> 0:08:07.916 comes out with this statement through his attorney that says 0:08:09.276 --> 0:08:13.316 it's no surprise that Congressman elect Santos has enemies at 0:08:13.356 --> 0:08:16.076 The New York Times who are attempting to smear his 0:08:16.076 --> 0:08:18.596 good name with these defamatory allegations. 0:08:19.156 --> 0:08:21.236 I even spoke with the chief of Stuff and he 0:08:21.236 --> 0:08:24.196 said he's speaking with his lawyers. They're going to handle it. 0:08:24.236 --> 0:08:26.916 And I just said, okay, well, like they need to 0:08:26.956 --> 0:08:32.116 handle it immediately, because you know, this is this is 0:08:32.396 --> 0:08:33.396 really bad. 0:08:34.196 --> 0:08:36.356 And is Santo's freaking out at this point. 0:08:36.916 --> 0:08:39.356 So I can't vouch for how Santos is feeling because 0:08:39.396 --> 0:08:40.756 I have not spoken with him directly. 0:08:41.196 --> 0:08:42.876 We've tried, yes. 0:08:42.796 --> 0:08:45.556 Yes, we've reached out to him for comment. So far 0:08:45.636 --> 0:08:50.476 he's declined those requests. But Santos appears to have been 0:08:50.676 --> 0:08:55.676 attempting some damage control. He's not giving a ton of interviews, 0:08:55.676 --> 0:08:58.716 but he does grant one to Fox News and it's 0:08:58.756 --> 0:09:02.396 a guest anchor, so it is Tulca Gabbard conducting the interview. 0:09:02.876 --> 0:09:04.916 First question I really want to ask you now that 0:09:04.956 --> 0:09:08.356 all this has been revealed, is what does the word 0:09:08.436 --> 0:09:09.996 integrity mean to you? 0:09:11.076 --> 0:09:14.156 Well, Tulsi, thank you for having me, you know, to 0:09:14.396 --> 0:09:18.276 answer your question. Integrity is very important, and bellis What 0:09:18.276 --> 0:09:18.796 does it mean? 0:09:18.836 --> 0:09:18.996 Though? 0:09:19.356 --> 0:09:19.916 What does it mean? 0:09:19.956 --> 0:09:23.396 Because the meaning of the word actually matters in practice. 0:09:24.316 --> 0:09:27.916 Of course, it means to carry yourself in an honorable way. 0:09:28.276 --> 0:09:30.876 And I made a mistake, and I think humans are 0:09:30.916 --> 0:09:32.436 flawed and we all make mistakes. 0:09:32.476 --> 0:09:33.636 Tulsi, this is. 0:09:33.636 --> 0:09:36.316 Fox News and he's a Republican and he's getting very 0:09:36.316 --> 0:09:39.916 hostile treatment here. So, I mean, lord knows what would 0:09:39.916 --> 0:09:43.676 happen if he had gone on MSNBC or even CNN. 0:09:44.316 --> 0:09:49.436 I'm wondering how is this playing out with his constituents. 0:09:50.156 --> 0:09:54.676 Yeah, I mean, I remember the reaction was pretty swift. 0:09:55.516 --> 0:10:03.076 George Chantlis's campaign last year was a campaign of decei, lies, fabrication. 0:10:04.036 --> 0:10:07.196 He deceived the voters of the third Congressional district. 0:10:07.996 --> 0:10:11.276 That's Joe Chiro, head of the Republican Party in Nasa County. 0:10:11.556 --> 0:10:14.796 This is from a press conference they held where he, 0:10:14.996 --> 0:10:19.236 along with other New York Republicans, actually ask for Santos' resignation. 0:10:19.796 --> 0:10:23.556 There's absolutely no way mister Santos can be an effective 0:10:23.636 --> 0:10:29.956 member of Congress and represent the people who elected him. 0:10:30.316 --> 0:10:32.316 One of the questions I have is like, talk to 0:10:32.356 --> 0:10:37.516 me about this district that elects him. 0:10:37.956 --> 0:10:41.556 Yeah. So Santos ran in New York's third congressional district, 0:10:41.596 --> 0:10:43.996 which if you've ever looked at a political map, you 0:10:44.076 --> 0:10:46.876 know these districts get drawn in a kind of crazy, 0:10:46.956 --> 0:10:50.796 nonsensical way. When you look at the district itself, it 0:10:50.996 --> 0:10:54.196 holds part of Nasa County, which is where I grew up, 0:10:54.636 --> 0:10:57.476 and specifically in my neighborhood, I can say it's a 0:10:57.516 --> 0:11:01.236 lot of working class folks, so people who commute into 0:11:01.236 --> 0:11:06.436 New York City every day, cops, firefighters, teachers. It also 0:11:06.516 --> 0:11:09.356 includes the north shore of Long Island, which is like 0:11:09.516 --> 0:11:13.276 Gatspeak country. There's lots of big houses and old money. 0:11:13.836 --> 0:11:16.836 And over the years the district has changed, the lines 0:11:16.876 --> 0:11:19.836 have been redrawn, but by the time that Santos was running, 0:11:20.636 --> 0:11:23.396 the district included a little sliver of Queens which is 0:11:23.476 --> 0:11:24.796 actually where Santos grew up. 0:11:25.396 --> 0:11:30.316 It's funny because when you describe it, I totally almost 0:11:30.356 --> 0:11:32.836 get why he would have to be a guy, that 0:11:32.876 --> 0:11:34.716 would be a chameleon, that would have to be able 0:11:34.916 --> 0:11:38.156 to play a lot of different parts, because his constituency 0:11:38.356 --> 0:11:40.836 is just like a crazy cross section of America. 0:11:41.876 --> 0:11:45.636 Yeah, and I think when George Santos is running for office, 0:11:46.476 --> 0:11:50.676 he is building the narrative around himself that he started 0:11:50.716 --> 0:11:56.116 from nothing and built himself into a successful businessman in 0:11:56.156 --> 0:11:59.476 the financial industry. So he claims that he was working 0:11:59.596 --> 0:12:02.836 for Goldman Sachs, he claims that he was working for 0:12:02.916 --> 0:12:03.436 City Group. 0:12:04.716 --> 0:12:06.676 None of these things are true. None of that is 0:12:06.676 --> 0:12:07.436 a crime. 0:12:07.636 --> 0:12:11.436 That's true. But it's around the same moment in time 0:12:11.556 --> 0:12:15.476 that new reports are emerging that Santos is being investigated 0:12:15.756 --> 0:12:18.196 for actual crimes he may have committed. 0:12:18.556 --> 0:12:22.716 The Republican District Attorney of Nassau County says she's looking 0:12:22.756 --> 0:12:26.796 into whether any of those fabrications amounted to crimes, and 0:12:26.916 --> 0:12:32.316 federal prosecutors are also looking into Santos's financial disclosures. Stunning 0:12:32.356 --> 0:12:36.276 revelations and questions about his personal and professional life continue 0:12:36.276 --> 0:12:38.996 to come to light, including new questions about the money 0:12:38.996 --> 0:12:40.356 he spent on his campaign. 0:12:42.396 --> 0:13:02.356 We'll be right back. So when the New York Times 0:13:02.356 --> 0:13:05.476 story comes out, there are a number of things that 0:13:05.516 --> 0:13:09.716 are exposed, but there are also a lot of questions remaining. 0:13:09.916 --> 0:13:13.196 And so I think, you know, reporters, especially reporters who 0:13:13.196 --> 0:13:16.396 are working in DC can kind of smell blood in 0:13:16.436 --> 0:13:18.876 the water, right, and they're like, what else can I 0:13:18.916 --> 0:13:19.956 find out about this guy? 0:13:20.516 --> 0:13:22.916 I was trying to cover the New York area because 0:13:22.996 --> 0:13:25.796 I'm a New Yorker, and I understood that there was 0:13:25.836 --> 0:13:30.236 this buzz that there were some members that might actually 0:13:30.276 --> 0:13:34.436 overcome some of the Democratic nominees that were running for Congress. 0:13:34.956 --> 0:13:38.116 Okay, Jake. So this is Kadea Goba, and she's a 0:13:38.156 --> 0:13:41.836 political reporter for Semaphore, which is this sort of newer 0:13:41.916 --> 0:13:42.956 journalism outlet. 0:13:43.396 --> 0:13:46.156 So I set out in October to interview a bunch 0:13:46.236 --> 0:13:50.156 of them. George Santos did not give me access after 0:13:50.236 --> 0:13:53.796 he won. He was like, he became a challenge to me. 0:13:53.876 --> 0:13:55.196 I needed to talk to this man. 0:13:56.516 --> 0:13:59.556 Kadia actually worked at BuzzFeed before she was with Semaphore, 0:14:00.036 --> 0:14:03.396 but she hasn't always been a journalist. This is a 0:14:03.476 --> 0:14:04.116 second career. 0:14:04.716 --> 0:14:10.196 I was in the clothing industry for over two decades 0:14:10.476 --> 0:14:12.596 as a sales rep. So this is sort of a 0:14:12.636 --> 0:14:16.596 midlife crisis that worked out anyways. 0:14:16.596 --> 0:14:19.516 So near the end of twenty twenty two, Kadilla is 0:14:19.556 --> 0:14:24.036 working as a reporter on Capitol Hill and she meets 0:14:24.236 --> 0:14:28.036 George Santos, in person. She gave him her card. You know, 0:14:28.076 --> 0:14:30.636 I'm a reporter working on the hill, would love to 0:14:30.636 --> 0:14:34.116 be in touch, but he doesn't give her his But 0:14:34.396 --> 0:14:37.516 she gets his phone number anyways, and she wants to 0:14:37.516 --> 0:14:40.636 talk to him, so she's calling a lot, even though 0:14:40.676 --> 0:14:43.356 he would never pick up until this one time. 0:14:43.756 --> 0:14:46.956 I remember very distinctly he either called me back or 0:14:47.516 --> 0:14:51.156 picked up the phone this one time and said, I 0:14:51.236 --> 0:14:54.076 remember not giving you my phone number, which I thought 0:14:54.116 --> 0:14:57.716 was very funny because he understood who had been calling him, 0:14:57.836 --> 0:14:59.676 but just was intentionally ignoring me. 0:14:59.956 --> 0:15:00.356 Whatever. 0:15:00.476 --> 0:15:02.756 Fine, He eventually picked up the phone, and he told 0:15:02.836 --> 0:15:05.956 me that at that time he was going on Fox, 0:15:06.236 --> 0:15:09.596 that I shouldn't tell anyone, but maybe he could talk 0:15:09.636 --> 0:15:10.676 to me afterwards. 0:15:11.276 --> 0:15:14.036 Wait, this is the same interview that we heard at 0:15:14.036 --> 0:15:16.116 the top with Tulci Gabbard. 0:15:16.636 --> 0:15:16.916 Yep. 0:15:17.756 --> 0:15:22.356 So I watched the interview and it went terribly. 0:15:22.836 --> 0:15:25.156 My question is do you have no shame? 0:15:25.836 --> 0:15:29.556 Look, I understand everybody wants to knitpick at me. I'm 0:15:29.596 --> 0:15:32.756 going to reassure this once and for all. I'm not 0:15:32.836 --> 0:15:34.396 a facade. I'm not a persona. 0:15:34.996 --> 0:15:38.356 You could tell he was uncomfortable. It wasn't what he expected. 0:15:38.596 --> 0:15:40.556 I think he thought this was going to be a 0:15:40.596 --> 0:15:44.116 good opportunity for him to talk about what happened or 0:15:44.196 --> 0:15:48.596 explain his situation, and none of that happened. So of 0:15:48.676 --> 0:15:51.716 course I kind of just texted him after the interview 0:15:51.836 --> 0:15:55.156 was over and kind of said like, are you free 0:15:55.276 --> 0:15:59.116 or do you want to talk? And he texted back 0:15:59.316 --> 0:16:02.316 like something like get your pen and paper ready. 0:16:04.596 --> 0:16:07.476 Wow. That kind of surprises me. Given how badly it went, 0:16:07.556 --> 0:16:10.196 you think maybe he would be a little guns Oh. 0:16:10.316 --> 0:16:13.396 I think Kadilla's view was the opposite that. You know, 0:16:13.476 --> 0:16:15.636 he thought that the Fox interview would be a good 0:16:15.676 --> 0:16:18.596 opportunity and then when it went so poorly, he's just 0:16:18.716 --> 0:16:21.756 kind of panicking, and he's he's open to talking to 0:16:21.836 --> 0:16:25.236 people because he wants to clear the air. Right, he's 0:16:25.236 --> 0:16:27.076 in crisis mode, I see. 0:16:27.236 --> 0:16:29.516 So yeah, they just get back up to the plate 0:16:29.556 --> 0:16:30.476 again kind of thing. 0:16:31.076 --> 0:16:34.756 And sure enough, like maybe fifteen minutes later, he called me, 0:16:35.796 --> 0:16:38.276 and I think I talked to him as he drove 0:16:38.756 --> 0:16:40.516 from the Fox studio home. 0:16:40.956 --> 0:16:43.076 So what is your goal in that interview? What is 0:16:43.116 --> 0:16:44.876 the big question you want to ask? 0:16:45.276 --> 0:16:47.356 Clearly I want to ask where he got his money from, 0:16:47.396 --> 0:16:49.156 because that was like the big discrepancy. 0:16:49.276 --> 0:16:53.636 Right, He had presented himself on the campaign trail as 0:16:53.676 --> 0:16:58.916 this wealthy, successful individual. How much money does he have 0:16:59.076 --> 0:17:01.356 really and what is the source of that money? 0:17:01.996 --> 0:17:03.996 So this is what Kadia is talking about, the big 0:17:03.996 --> 0:17:06.196 the discrepancy and where did the money come from? 0:17:06.676 --> 0:17:08.796 Yeah, and Kadia is following this, and I think it 0:17:08.796 --> 0:17:10.756 would be fair to say that a lot of reporters 0:17:10.756 --> 0:17:14.436 were fixated on this question at the time of you know, okay, 0:17:14.476 --> 0:17:18.036 George Santos has been exposed as a potential liar. What 0:17:18.236 --> 0:17:21.676 else could he be lying about? It appears on paper 0:17:22.196 --> 0:17:24.716 like George Santos has a lot of money, but is 0:17:24.716 --> 0:17:27.836 that actually the case? And it's around this time that 0:17:28.076 --> 0:17:31.876 many people start looking at his campaign finance filings. And 0:17:31.956 --> 0:17:35.276 one of those people is a guy named Sarav Ghosh. 0:17:35.796 --> 0:17:39.356 I'm the director of Federal Campaign Finance Reform at Campaign 0:17:39.396 --> 0:17:42.596 Legal Center, and what I work on every day are 0:17:42.996 --> 0:17:47.836 the laws that govern how people raise and spend money 0:17:48.316 --> 0:17:51.316 when they're trying to convince others to vote for them. 0:17:51.876 --> 0:17:54.396 He was a lawyer at the FEC, which is the 0:17:54.436 --> 0:17:59.036 Federal Election Commission, and it's basically Sarov's job to find 0:17:59.116 --> 0:18:01.716 people violating campaign finance laws. 0:18:01.956 --> 0:18:03.996 I see, so he's like a nonprofit do good or 0:18:03.996 --> 0:18:06.236 private detective exactly. 0:18:07.036 --> 0:18:10.716 So Siav and his team would eventually file a complaint 0:18:10.836 --> 0:18:15.516 with the Federal Election Commission, and some of the things 0:18:15.516 --> 0:18:18.676 that they flag actually show up later on in the 0:18:18.676 --> 0:18:20.316 federal indictment against Santos. 0:18:20.756 --> 0:18:21.876 Interesting, I see. 0:18:22.356 --> 0:18:25.516 Uh, you know that week between Christmas and New Year's 0:18:25.516 --> 0:18:29.556 when basically no one wants to work. Yeah, definitely that 0:18:29.636 --> 0:18:34.596 week Surav and his team were actually surprisingly busy. They 0:18:34.956 --> 0:18:39.556 started reviewing santosis campaign finance filings, and a few things 0:18:39.676 --> 0:18:41.076 stick out to Surrov right away. 0:18:41.796 --> 0:18:47.036 There was this glaring disconnect between his personal finances, as 0:18:47.036 --> 0:18:51.676 he had reported on financial disclosure form that every House 0:18:51.716 --> 0:18:56.076 candidate is required to file, and his campaign reports, which 0:18:56.516 --> 0:19:00.956 indicated he had loaned his own campaign a ton of money, 0:19:01.236 --> 0:19:04.436 a six figure sum north of seven hundred thousand dollars. 0:19:04.596 --> 0:19:05.036 Wow. 0:19:05.076 --> 0:19:08.596 So it's it's very I won't say comment, it's not 0:19:08.676 --> 0:19:12.316 unheard for a candidate to loan his own campaign that 0:19:12.436 --> 0:19:14.916 kind of money, or even to just give it to 0:19:14.956 --> 0:19:19.596 the campaign outright, but you typically expect to see backing 0:19:19.636 --> 0:19:24.076 that up a financial disclosure that shows, well, this person 0:19:24.156 --> 0:19:27.116 is wealthy, right, they have the assets, they have the income. 0:19:27.516 --> 0:19:29.436 With Santos, it was the exact opposite. 0:19:30.236 --> 0:19:32.356 So one thing quickly that I should just mention to you. 0:19:32.476 --> 0:19:37.916 Jake Santos actually ran for Congress twice. He ran first 0:19:37.956 --> 0:19:42.076 in twenty twenty. He lost. SIREV look through those records too, 0:19:42.796 --> 0:19:48.156 he claimed to loan his unsuccessful twenty twenty campaign something 0:19:48.236 --> 0:19:52.076 like eighty thousand dollars. That didn't really make sense because 0:19:52.116 --> 0:19:56.396 in twenty twenty he had personal assets and income of 0:19:56.476 --> 0:19:59.596 just fifty five thousand dollars according to his self reporting, 0:20:00.036 --> 0:20:02.196 So it was just fifty five thousand dollars. 0:20:02.276 --> 0:20:05.276 Fifty five thousand, yeah, wow, So it made no sense 0:20:05.316 --> 0:20:08.196 how somebody with fifty five thousand dollars could even afford 0:20:08.236 --> 0:20:10.876 to loan his campag eighty thousand dollars. 0:20:11.476 --> 0:20:15.676 So what Suraba is outlining here is that alongside those 0:20:15.676 --> 0:20:18.876 campaign filings, he's supposed to also be reporting what kind 0:20:18.916 --> 0:20:21.196 of income he's making, what kind of assets he has. 0:20:21.716 --> 0:20:24.796 And Surav's looking at this and just truly saying the 0:20:24.796 --> 0:20:27.836 math isn't adding up. And then when you get to 0:20:27.916 --> 0:20:31.636 twenty twenty two, when he's running the second time, he's 0:20:31.676 --> 0:20:34.956 loaning his campaign even more money that there's one loan 0:20:34.996 --> 0:20:37.956 in particular of five hundred thousand dollars. In March of 0:20:37.996 --> 0:20:43.676 twenty twenty two, Santos files a disclosure form that lists 0:20:43.836 --> 0:20:47.676 his assets and income. In this document, you can see 0:20:47.836 --> 0:20:51.876 he lists an apartment in Brazil that he values somewhere 0:20:51.876 --> 0:20:55.036 between half a million and a million dollars. He says 0:20:55.076 --> 0:20:57.636 he has somewhere between one hundred and two hundred and 0:20:57.636 --> 0:21:00.916 fifty thousand dollars in a checking account. And then there's 0:21:00.916 --> 0:21:05.876 this business called the Devolder Organization, and he values the 0:21:05.916 --> 0:21:10.916 Devolder Organization as somewhere between a million and five million dollars. 0:21:11.316 --> 0:21:14.636 That's one of his surnames as de Vold. And he 0:21:14.716 --> 0:21:19.196 claimed that this organization, which was founded within months of 0:21:19.636 --> 0:21:22.596 losing in the twenty twenty election, he claimed that this 0:21:22.716 --> 0:21:25.916 company was basically an overnight success story. 0:21:26.716 --> 0:21:27.596 And he was. 0:21:27.796 --> 0:21:32.716 Very ambiguous and sketchy, quite quite honestly about what the 0:21:32.756 --> 0:21:36.036 company did and how it made so much money overnight. 0:21:36.796 --> 0:21:41.956 So he's filing these disclosures with the House, is that correct? 0:21:42.036 --> 0:21:42.436 Correct? 0:21:43.196 --> 0:21:46.116 Basically saying like, look, I've got this apartment in Brazil, 0:21:46.396 --> 0:21:50.356 I've got this company over here, Like yeah, I'm a 0:21:50.356 --> 0:21:53.756 wealthy man like I am more than capable of loading 0:21:53.756 --> 0:21:58.396 my campaign this money. And my question is was that true? 0:21:58.436 --> 0:22:02.476 Did he actually have any of these assets or was 0:22:02.516 --> 0:22:05.436 this also part of his fabulous's tale. 0:22:05.716 --> 0:22:09.116 So Sarav is looking at this and to be very clear, 0:22:09.116 --> 0:22:11.876 sav does not believe the financial disclosure form. I think 0:22:11.916 --> 0:22:14.716 also because he's looking at the previous forms and just saying, 0:22:14.796 --> 0:22:18.796 how did this materialize overnight? Right? And he's also suspicious 0:22:18.836 --> 0:22:21.876 of like what's driving this income? And that is a 0:22:21.956 --> 0:22:25.756 question that Kadella, the reporter you heard from earlier, is 0:22:25.956 --> 0:22:29.076 also very interested in getting an answer to you know, 0:22:29.436 --> 0:22:32.036 what is going on with George Santos and his money, 0:22:32.596 --> 0:22:36.316 Where is this alleged income coming from? And just to say, 0:22:36.716 --> 0:22:39.276 if it's not already clear, all of this is happening 0:22:39.356 --> 0:22:43.716 at the same time. So we have Sarav, who's our watchdog. 0:22:44.316 --> 0:22:47.436 Him and his team are digging into these campaign finance 0:22:47.476 --> 0:22:50.876 reports in the week between Christmas and New Year's and 0:22:51.196 --> 0:22:57.396 that same week, Kadea, the clothing sales rep turned journalist, 0:22:57.676 --> 0:23:01.676 is trying to get that interview with George Santos and 0:23:01.996 --> 0:23:05.236 she's going to finally get it in the moment after 0:23:05.356 --> 0:23:09.556 his disastrous interview on Fox, and so he's actually calling 0:23:09.596 --> 0:23:12.836 her on the drive home from the Fox studio. 0:23:13.876 --> 0:23:16.676 This is also eight o'clock at night, So I'm like 0:23:17.076 --> 0:23:20.716 in my apartment. You know, Congress has been out for 0:23:20.796 --> 0:23:23.196 weeks now, and I was like, I can't believe this 0:23:23.236 --> 0:23:26.436 is happening. I'm actually interviewing this guy that everyone is 0:23:26.476 --> 0:23:30.916 talking about. So I was working with like a Hanvis 0:23:30.956 --> 0:23:33.236