Speaker 1: First of all, you don't know me. Were all about
Speaker 1: that high school drama, Girl Drama Girl, all about them
Speaker 1: high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in
Speaker 1: our comic girl Cheering for the drama Queens Girl Fashion,
Speaker 1: but you'll tough, girl. You could sit with us Girl Drama, Queens, DNA,
Speaker 1: Queen's Drawn, mc Queen's Drama, John mc Queen's Drama, Queen's
Speaker 1: Welcome Back, Everybody it is Season four, Episode four, can't
Speaker 1: stop this thing you started? I wish we could. That
Speaker 1: train is a rolling baby. There's a lot that I
Speaker 1: wanted to push stop on in this episode. I didn't
Speaker 1: like it. It was a good episode. The subject acidic front.
Speaker 1: It's so uncomfortable that while we were watching it we
Speaker 1: were like, wow, they really did a good job because
Speaker 1: we're all super creeped out. But yeah, maybe didn't really
Speaker 1: make me feel sick. Bethany Rooney was our director in
Speaker 1: this and it was her first time. I believe in
Speaker 1: my right that she one last year too. Has she
Speaker 1: done one before? Well? I loved her. She was one
Speaker 1: of my favorite directors and um, you know, she would
Speaker 1: always come in. She had a very calm energy and
Speaker 1: really knew what she wanted, but was also really open
Speaker 1: to our ideas, So that was nice. Um. But she
Speaker 1: she came in with ideas. It wasn't just somebody coming
Speaker 1: in expecting the machine to run itself and she's just
Speaker 1: there to, you know, call call out the shots every
Speaker 1: once in a while. She really had ideas and I
Speaker 1: think it showed up a lot because there was a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that she just had to juggle in
Speaker 1: this crazy episode. She had really creative shots. That basketball
Speaker 1: shot at the very top of the episode where Lucas
Speaker 1: is like looking through the basketball hoop and the way
Speaker 1: it was revealed, Yeah, it was super cool. Well, what
Speaker 1: this episode that Bethany Rooney directed beautifully is about is
Speaker 1: deb continues her downward spiral to her addiction. Rachel continues
Speaker 1: to chase after Nathan. He is still searching for answers
Speaker 1: about what he saw in the water. Whitey and Karen
Speaker 1: make a proposition to Lucas about returning to basketball. The
Speaker 1: rumor about Brooks pregnancy is just spreading like wildfire around
Speaker 1: the school, and Derek starts getting closer to Peyton, but
Speaker 1: Lucas begins to suspect that his intentions are not good
Speaker 1: and the coolest thing that, like I don't know ever happened,
Speaker 1: was Lupe Fiasco performed at Trick. Amazing, so exciting, there's
Speaker 1: a lot. Loupe being there is one of my core
Speaker 1: memories of our show, Like truly one of the best
Speaker 1: days I've ever had at work. It was so fun
Speaker 1: and so cool. We were all so excited and it
Speaker 1: was a long day at Trick and we were all
Speaker 1: it was one of those ones that we all showed
Speaker 1: up even when we weren't there. We weren't do on
Speaker 1: set yet. We were just wanted to hang out. We
Speaker 1: wanted to be there when lou Loupe was performing and
Speaker 1: then hang out in the green room backstage so we
Speaker 1: could set chat. We were so fang early about it,
Speaker 1: we really were. And I don't know why I remember this.
Speaker 1: I remember because I had gotten to work a couple
Speaker 1: of hours earlier than I was needed and they were
Speaker 1: loading in his set. You know, they put up that
Speaker 1: chain length fence with all the loop A skateboards on it,
Speaker 1: you know, the it was just the board part though,
Speaker 1: without the wheels, and I remember helping like unwrap those
Speaker 1: skateboards out of the bubble wrap, out of the boxes
Speaker 1: and being like helpful, this really cool? What can I do?
Speaker 1: Put me to work? Like he wasn't there. It was
Speaker 1: like me and the set dep guys. But I was like,
Speaker 1: this is so cool. I can't believe it's really coming.
Speaker 1: And I don't know why. It's like it's burned into
Speaker 1: my brain. I just have such imposter syndrome. Like even
Speaker 1: on TRL at MTV, my assumption was always like no
Speaker 1: one knows who we are. No one knows, like like
Speaker 1: you're going to forget my name five minutes after you leave.
Speaker 1: And I just had this kind of like feeling when
Speaker 1: he showed up, like does he even know what our
Speaker 1: show is? Like our show? What do you do? Hopping about?
Speaker 1: You here? Why are you here? You know? Like I
Speaker 1: just yeah, my imposter syndrome was so big. I was
Speaker 1: just like who did your manager trick you? Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not cool. It was a lot of that, like
Speaker 1: how did we get you here? Like extreme confusion. Well,
Speaker 1: you made a great point while we were watching Hillary
Speaker 1: you were You mentioned a writer that we had come
Speaker 1: in once who was telling us um because she was
Speaker 1: back in the writers room in l A and that
Speaker 1: they were really trying to get a lot more male
Speaker 1: viewers on the show, and um, so I think maybe
Speaker 1: that was part of it too, because Lupe was definitely
Speaker 1: like the coolest I mean, well, I guess Jack's mannequin
Speaker 1: was pretty cool, but still kind of indie. Like Lupe
Speaker 1: was pretty mainstream and like cool and appealed to both
Speaker 1: sexes more than like a Michelle branch or maybe even
Speaker 1: Tyler at that point. Well, we had a lot of
Speaker 1: singer songwriter energy, yeah, and so to ranch out um
Speaker 1: into more you know, like I don't know, you're right,
Speaker 1: like mainstream, go to a club, have fun kind of
Speaker 1: like fun music. Maybe that's the word I'm looking for
Speaker 1: because it fits with all the other things we were
Speaker 1: talking about in the episode, like all the stuff with
Speaker 1: Rachel being naked basically, and all the stuff with Nathan
Speaker 1: on the motorcycle and the way they were you know,
Speaker 1: even the psychoderic stuff. The way that was cut it
Speaker 1: was definitely had had a bent toward what male audiences
Speaker 1: at the time we're showing up for. They were fixated
Speaker 1: on the mail thing, and we can talk about it
Speaker 1: more like as the psychoderic thing evolves. But I was
Speaker 1: specifically pulled aside and told that our male numbers in
Speaker 1: viewership skyrocketed when Peyton got her as kicked by Derek,
Speaker 1: and so what you'll see, there's a pattern on our
Speaker 1: show where either violence towards women or super sexualized situations.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be an uptick in that because they were
Speaker 1: really hot to capture the male audience and they saw
Speaker 1: those numbers, like they had data that showed them this
Speaker 1: is what the boys like. Um. And that was really
Speaker 1: frightening to me. But I had to be a good
Speaker 1: like sport about it and be like, oh, I'm so
Speaker 1: glad I could bring more eyeballs to our show. That
Speaker 1: feels great. Um, But yeah, they were. They were trying
Speaker 1: to get the dudes for sure. They couldn't do it
Speaker 1: with basketball, so we'll punch a girl in the face.
Speaker 1: It's upsetting, though, to to think about what kind of
Speaker 1: male audience we were cultivating with that note on certainly
Speaker 1: not and there's plenty of shows men watch that don't
Speaker 1: revolve around assaulting women. And I think it feels extra
Speaker 1: intense given that, you know, we had those conversations in
Speaker 1: season three with the school shooting episode about what we've
Speaker 1: learned in the last twenty years, what we've learned about
Speaker 1: these groups that groom men and boys towards violence online,
Speaker 1: and that those are the people that are pushing um
Speaker 1: the rhetoric and the misinformation that literally we find repeated
Speaker 1: again and again and again, and these manifestoes of these
Speaker 1: men who who commit violent acts like that. And to
Speaker 1: think that we had a team of people in charge
Speaker 1: of us that chose to seek out and try to
Speaker 1: entertain violent men, like that's a that's a really hard
Speaker 1: pill to swallow, even all these years later. It's really
Speaker 1: no joy. I mean, how fucking meta is it? How
Speaker 1: meta is it that they are clearly vilifying Derek the
Speaker 1: creep on the internet, right while also soliciting the creeps
Speaker 1: on the internet. Yeah. Absolutely, I just think it was
Speaker 1: incredibly careless. I don't know that it was sinister and
Speaker 1: that there are people sitting in their offices like you know,
Speaker 1: how we can really you know, because the psychos out there, right.
Speaker 1: I think it was just a carelessness of like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's action, it'll be cool and like and then it's
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's just careless. It's a total lack
Speaker 1: of awareness of what it's actually doing, right, But it's
Speaker 1: it's the kind of lack of awareness you see in,
Speaker 1: for example, people who can't get pregnant, men trying to
Speaker 1: regulate women's literal reproductive systems, like it's the same sort
Speaker 1: of thing where they go, this is going to be
Speaker 1: really cool, and they don't follow what their actions actually
Speaker 1: cause or mean. So I know they weren't trying to
Speaker 1: solicit like basement bullies on the internet, but they saw
Speaker 1: that a lot of young men were drawn to a
Speaker 1: violent assault of women, and they went, we should do
Speaker 1: more of that. Not hold the phone. How are we
Speaker 1: gonna Okay, wait, if if we suddenly have a lot
Speaker 1: of these young men tuning in, how are we going
Speaker 1: to talk about how awful that was? Instead, they were like,
Speaker 1: maybe we should do more. Maybe we should make the
Speaker 1: girls do maxim and tell them they'll get fired if
Speaker 1: they don't like that. Is that what happened? Oh yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: talk about the maxim? Shoot. Oh man, oh man, guess
Speaker 1: who wore pants and maxim? This guy? Because I have
Speaker 1: kept this pair of white jeans for so long because
Speaker 1: I showed up that day and was such a righteous
Speaker 1: bitch and like such like a brat, like such a baby. Uh,
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm wearing pants not just I
Speaker 1: don't I'm uncomfortable plumbing in the pants. And also I've
Speaker 1: saved those white jeans as like a testament to I'm
Speaker 1: gonna wear pants and Maxim, I mean our hardest. We
Speaker 1: got like cute vintage one pieces and high waisted bikinis
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, I'll wear this like corset
Speaker 1: top that totally covers my tummy and then these shorts
Speaker 1: and it'll look like a fifties pin up shoot. And
Speaker 1: then the photo shop they did of that outfit, half
Speaker 1: my ass is gone, like literally one of my legs
Speaker 1: just is half of its size. And they did the
Speaker 1: thing that they loved to do to us then, where
Speaker 1: they tried to make our boobs bigger. I've never had
Speaker 1: boobs in the corset and shorts shot of me. They
Speaker 1: only like, it's like someone started making one of my
Speaker 1: boobs bigger and then went to lunch and forgot they
Speaker 1: weren't done. So like one normal size boob and one
Speaker 1: huge boob and half but on one side, like you guys,
Speaker 1: it's the worst. It's the worst, babe, that's called the
Speaker 1: Maxim Special one big bob. Really, it was insane. Just
Speaker 1: once we really did try to make it the best
Speaker 1: version of it we could. But yeah, we got told
Speaker 1: we had to do it. And I because Brooke had
Speaker 1: been so sexualized on the show, and the whole idea
Speaker 1: of this like hometown hottie was Rachel's storyline. I was like, Look,
Speaker 1: if if the girls want to do it, that's great.
Speaker 1: I don't like I have gone to battle trying to
Speaker 1: make Brook less of this thing that you guys tried
Speaker 1: to force me into. I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1: And I literally got told, if you do not go
Speaker 1: and shoot this cover with your co stars, we will
Speaker 1: guarantee you that you will never be let out for
Speaker 1: a press day, a movie, an event, any of your charities.
Speaker 1: We will keep you here forever. Where was your manager
Speaker 1: the leverage they had because I didn't. I remember getting
Speaker 1: pulled into the production office, your Lawyal and I sat
Speaker 1: on a floor while our boss was on the couch
Speaker 1: as we were given this like very friendly soft pitch
Speaker 1: that was Look, all the other shows have been on
Speaker 1: the cover of every single magazine, and no one wants you, Guys,
Speaker 1: no one wants you, and you finally have someone that
Speaker 1: wants you, and you're really going to turn your nose
Speaker 1: up at that UM and you know, we were on
Speaker 1: the bubble every year, and we were assured that Maxim
Speaker 1: had just been purchased by a new parent company and
Speaker 1: they had UM British ownership now, so they're classing up
Speaker 1: the joint and that it was run predominantly by women,
Speaker 1: and we were like, but what do you mean. They're like,
Speaker 1: you guys are going to be the start of the
Speaker 1: rebranding of Maxim. It's going to be so classy, like
Speaker 1: it was this whole thing because we said no to
Speaker 1: that for years, for years, but it was very much
Speaker 1: a no one else wants you, studio wants to cancel
Speaker 1: your show. If you don't start to generate some buzz
Speaker 1: and attract these male numbers, then we're dead and all
Speaker 1: your friends are going to lose their jobs and it'll
Speaker 1: be your faults. I think. You know what's interesting for
Speaker 1: me is it's about agency. Like at that time, I said, no,
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this, and I was told
Speaker 1: I had to, and I hear you on the like,
Speaker 1: where was your manager? But what's a manager going to do? Well?
Speaker 1: They said, you're working every day in this episode. Yeah
Speaker 1: you're supposed to have You're not technically on camera on Friday,
Speaker 1: but that's the only time they can do your wardrobe fitting,
Speaker 1: Like they can keep you on the ground if they
Speaker 1: want to. And it just seems like something that would
Speaker 1: have happened enough in this industry that lawyers would know
Speaker 1: how to handle that. It was pre texting, really joy Like,
Speaker 1: how often were we really in contact with our managers
Speaker 1: back then? It was It was such a profound threat
Speaker 1: and a threat to like being able, honestly, even to
Speaker 1: have the ability to escape for a weekend a place
Speaker 1: that at this stage, like this season, I was leaving
Speaker 1: every chance I got. I would come into work and
Speaker 1: do my job, and then I wanted out. I wanted
Speaker 1: to go home. I wanted to be with my family,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be with my friends. I did not
Speaker 1: want to be on our set. It was not a
Speaker 1: safe place for me, and this was such a threat
Speaker 1: to safety. And I remember, and it's weird because I
Speaker 1: remember having these conflicting feelings when we did that cover,
Speaker 1: like looking at you Hill and looking at Danil and
Speaker 1: being like, God, everybody, everybody looks so beautiful, and like
Speaker 1: I farted in all those pictures. I'm making the most
Speaker 1: uncomfortable phase look uncomfortable. But in the room I remember
Speaker 1: being like this, like I'm looking at my friends who
Speaker 1: look stunning and who do look like these fifties pin
Speaker 1: up girls, and this should be so fun, but it's
Speaker 1: miserable because we didn't choose it. And it's interesting because
Speaker 1: many years later when that when there was actual like
Speaker 1: when we did Maxim on our show, it was still
Speaker 1: like college humor, like really gross. All the articles geared
Speaker 1: towards like just grossness, like frat house humor. And many
Speaker 1: years later, on a different job, the magazine had actually
Speaker 1: changed hands and had been bought by one of the
Speaker 1: big women's magazine umbrellas. I guess maybe again, And I
Speaker 1: got to art direct to shoot with Maxim with these
Speaker 1: three incredible um photographers who like came in from France,
Speaker 1: uh team that came in from like tom Ford, like
Speaker 1: super high end fashion. We were we were doing these
Speaker 1: like video clip like short film inspirations for the shoot,
Speaker 1: sourcing the locations I was involved, and all the things
Speaker 1: we were like taking references from the first Beyonce a
Speaker 1: visual album and it was like the coolest, sexiest vibius
Speaker 1: thing I've ever worked on. That, Like photographs came out
Speaker 1: of and it was such a I had this pang,
Speaker 1: being like we could have actually done something that made
Speaker 1: us feel special, but like back then when we were
Speaker 1: we just felt like bossed around and used and and
Speaker 1: the glaring difference under you know, quote unquote the same
Speaker 1: banner I get fifteen years apart or whatever. But it
Speaker 1: really wasn't lost on me when I thought back to
Speaker 1: this episode. Also at the shoot. UM, first of all
Speaker 1: those pictures that we see that Rachel takes, or the
Speaker 1: Brook takes of Rachel in the episode, those are pictures
Speaker 1: that were up in our writer's office. I would to
Speaker 1: go visit the writer's office in Los Angeles. Imagine she
Speaker 1: didn't know, she didn't know, yeah, And I remember seeing
Speaker 1: them being like, what then is this um? But then
Speaker 1: our boss came to the maximum shoot and he made
Speaker 1: a production out of giving me a present in front
Speaker 1: of Sophia and Daniel because he was trying to put
Speaker 1: so it was an iPod that he had loaded with
Speaker 1: music he thought was applicable to me and wanted Sophia
Speaker 1: to see it to put it her in her place,
Speaker 1: and he wanted Daniel to see it because he was
Speaker 1: trying to make her jealous and little game. Oh god,
Speaker 1: I mean, like, by the way, who does that with
Speaker 1: a pack of like twenty four year old We weren't
Speaker 1: even we were twenty three, right, it's sick on like
Speaker 1: every So that is something you do for your crush
Speaker 1: when you're in high school, or your girlfriend or boyfriend
Speaker 1: when you're an adult, or you know, your your spouse
Speaker 1: or your best friend. It's not something you do for
Speaker 1: an employee. Who is who is taking pictures? Taking pictures?
Speaker 1: Who is what fifteen years twenty years your junior and
Speaker 1: you are a married adult man, married adult man. I
Speaker 1: just remember how scary and uncomfortable that stuff felt, like, Hillary,
Speaker 1: I remember him doing that to you that day, and
Speaker 1: how sick it made me feel, and looking at you
Speaker 1: because I could see you like collapse a little bit.
Speaker 1: And then I remember trying to catch your eyes, but
Speaker 1: you were like looking at the floor, like burning with discomfort.
Speaker 1: But then like I remember you checking to the side
Speaker 1: to like see are they watching this? Like I was watched,
Speaker 1: and I was like trying to catch your eye but
Speaker 1: also not make a scene and let you know I
Speaker 1: saw you and let you know I knew it was him,
Speaker 1: But we couldn't talk about it because he was in
Speaker 1: the world like it was all just so awful, like
Speaker 1: it's awful. Well, because we'd all been pitted against each
Speaker 1: other in different ways, and we had actually had a
Speaker 1: nice day for all of our discomfort, you know, when
Speaker 1: you're in the trenches and you're all just like, I
Speaker 1: guess we're doing this thing okay, and we'd actually, like you,
Speaker 1: Me and Danielle had had this kind of like nice
Speaker 1: day where we would all check in with each other
Speaker 1: and be like, no, you look good, you look good.
Speaker 1: I'm here for you. Let me put my hand here,
Speaker 1: you know, let me like I'll hold you. Um. And
Speaker 1: he came in and just made this very like visual
Speaker 1: move to be divisive. And I was so embarrassed because
Speaker 1: I even though it was like a day, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: well we're cool, like the girls are cool, this is great,
Speaker 1: and he just I was so embarrassed. I was so embarrassed.
Speaker 1: I just went to my friends Steve's house afterwards, and
Speaker 1: I was like, can I wash my face here? I
Speaker 1: just wanted to wash it off. You know, we we
Speaker 1: were all really pitted against each other, and this is
Speaker 1: a great example of that because I never even heard
Speaker 1: I think I remember hearing like, oh, the girls are
Speaker 1: and were you guys in New York? Where did you
Speaker 1: go for the But they you were off. The girls
Speaker 1: are off doing their maximum shoot and they replaced you
Speaker 1: with Danielle Joy. Um, that's what they told you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they told me they didn't come to me because I
Speaker 1: was too fast and um, and I just wasn't like.
Speaker 1: I wasn't the hot girl I wasn't like a hot
Speaker 1: girl on the shop anymore. Joy. They told us they
Speaker 1: asked you and you said no. Okay. First of all,
Speaker 1: I don't understand how a person calls the co star. Look.
Speaker 1: I understand we're all like on the body, on the
Speaker 1: spectrum of bodies, like we're slender ladies. Yes. Wait wait, yes,
Speaker 1: I never heard a word. I'm like, how they could
Speaker 1: call the girl who literally has the physically smallest waste
Speaker 1: of all of us fat. I don't understand. Second of
Speaker 1: all they said to us, because by the way, when
Speaker 1: when I said I don't want to do it, I
Speaker 1: was like, but Joy is not doing it. She said no,
Speaker 1: and they go, well, she said no, so you have
Speaker 1: to say yes, and she said no. First they told
Speaker 1: us that you said I absolutely will not do it.
Speaker 1: And Maxim said, well, we can. You know, it's still
Speaker 1: it'll still work if it's a group of the girls,
Speaker 1: if it's just the three, but any less than three
Speaker 1: then we don't have the cast. So they basically said, sorry,
Speaker 1: she said no first, so you can't. Wow. They never asked.
Speaker 1: They never even asked. I just happened, and I was like, wow.
Speaker 1: I mean I probably wouldn't have done it because at
Speaker 1: the time I didn't you know, what Maxim was to
Speaker 1: me was not something that I felt like I wanted
Speaker 1: to be a part of. So I would have said no.
Speaker 1: But they didn't even ask. It was just like the
Speaker 1: assumption Joy's not going to do it. And by the way,
Speaker 1: here's why. Because isn't it crazy though, to to realize
Speaker 1: that they escapegoated you to tell the three of us
Speaker 1: we couldn't say no exactly. They threw you under the bus.
Speaker 1: I was like, why does she get to say no?
Speaker 1: And I don't. I don't understand. I was like, how
Speaker 1: come Joy got first pick? I mean, if they had
Speaker 1: put me in that position, in the position they put
Speaker 1: you guys in, Yeah, we weren't mad at you, but
Speaker 1: we were piste about it. But that was the beginning
Speaker 1: of all of them. It was like, for some reason,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it was right after I
Speaker 1: had gotten my life and um our boss was It
Speaker 1: started with that in the last episode, the comment that
Speaker 1: Rachel makes you're a fat girl the little head? Yes,
Speaker 1: what was that? I remember reading that on paper and
Speaker 1: just being like, what, Like that's so it's so random.
Speaker 1: That actually must be what he thinks of me. And
Speaker 1: it was such a strange. I just never you know,
Speaker 1: you just there's something sometimes like someone will say something
Speaker 1: to you and you're like, I never ever saw myself
Speaker 1: that way. And now suddenly every time I look in
Speaker 1: the mirror, I'm like, am I fat? Like do I
Speaker 1: guess I do kind of have a little head? Does that?
Speaker 1: Is that bad? Is that unattractive? And it's so dumb,
Speaker 1: but it really followed me around for a long time
Speaker 1: in my brains and and and what a fucker. That
Speaker 1: was the beginning of it when that comment came out
Speaker 1: in the script and we had to do the scene
Speaker 1: and she had to say it over me, like, you know,
Speaker 1: ten times in the takes, and then we uh. From
Speaker 1: that point forward, it was like I started getting treated
Speaker 1: like just put joy in the category of like middle
Speaker 1: aged mom and we're gonna we're gonna do all the
Speaker 1: sexy stuff with everybody else. There's nothing interesting about Joy
Speaker 1: anymore because she's married. And apparently they thought I was
Speaker 1: fat and boring, and so that was it. And I
Speaker 1: just got kind of like replaced with Danielle, who I
Speaker 1: love and you know, I've said a million times, like
Speaker 1: I love. It was just so so weird. But what's
Speaker 1: crazy about that? And this is something I've realized in
Speaker 1: our industry because of the way we as women get treated.
Speaker 1: You being married at the time, whether it was conscious
Speaker 1: or unconscious, meant that a group of men went, well,
Speaker 1: no chance of now, so what are we gonna do
Speaker 1: with her? And it's like, immediately, that's not what I'm
Speaker 1: here for. And by the way, the irony is that
Speaker 1: in the last episode, you and James have that scene
Speaker 1: in bed that is vulnerable and sexy as helper, like
Speaker 1: him crawling on top of you and you guys having
Speaker 1: that conversation real close to each other's faces. I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I should be watching those, but
Speaker 1: I like it. This is intimate. This feels really intimate,
Speaker 1: and I feel like a fly on the wall, but
Speaker 1: I want to know what they're saying, and it's like,
Speaker 1: we don't Our sexiness are our mininity. Our ability to
Speaker 1: connect doesn't change whether we're married or not, or whether
Speaker 1: we're twenty or forty. Like, I'm sorry, maybe it's ghosh
Speaker 1: or whatever to say, but I think we're all a
Speaker 1: ton hotter now than we were then. Girl, I'll freak
Speaker 1: here now after two kids than I was. Come Hello, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm way better in bed than I was then. I've
Speaker 1: heard joy. It's like, it's true, and it's so irritating
Speaker 1: to me that what we were allowed to do or
Speaker 1: portray was governed by whether or not our boss thought
Speaker 1: he might have a shot at us. That's just disgusting,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't I want to say, Like, I know,
Speaker 1: our business isn't easy for men, and like I get
Speaker 1: that they get objectified. And look, we made James take
Speaker 1: a shot off a lot on this show. I don't
Speaker 1: know if he liked it or not, but it was
Speaker 1: a lot. And I get that they also have the
Speaker 1: standards they're supposed to live up to, but they don't
Speaker 1: go through this part and I'm pissed that we do.
Speaker 1: I just I'm pissed about it. Well, hopefully girls talk
Speaker 1: to each other now, you know, like, yeah, I hope
Speaker 1: that there's a you know, a pack of eNews coming
Speaker 1: up that are like, oh, rules, we're not going to
Speaker 1: follow those. I missed that in this episode. I missed
Speaker 1: the camaraderie with the girls. In this episode we're all
Speaker 1: like split off and dealing with our own weird stuff.
Speaker 1: Although one of my I mean what I one thing
Speaker 1: I really love about the camaraderie that we didn't get
Speaker 1: to see too much of but we knew was there
Speaker 1: was Brooke being an amazing friend to Haley and just
Speaker 1: continuing to take the beating from every left, right and center.
Speaker 1: Everybody's coming after Brooke, and I love that she just
Speaker 1: holds it in, holds her own stays there strong for
Speaker 1: her friend, and then at the end is like, okay, listen,
Speaker 1: it's time. I've I've hit my limit. But you know,
Speaker 1: she's just so true blue. I love it. I love
Speaker 1: it too, and I loved You're right it was. It
Speaker 1: was such a breath of fresh air our scenes together
Speaker 1: because even they've given this weird thing, it's like it's
Speaker 1: it's like a it's like a bitchy little seesaw that
Speaker 1: they give to brook and Rachel, like Brookish shooting Rachel's
Speaker 1: photos for the messing thing. But they're yelling at each
Speaker 1: other while they're doing it, and I'm like, why are
Speaker 1: we doing this? We're roommates, you know, whatever, I get it.
Speaker 1: Complaints are in private. It's pillow fights and bitchy see sauce.
Speaker 1: I'm like, if I'm taking pictures of one of you
Speaker 1: in your underwear, I'm gonna be like, you look kind
Speaker 1: of amazing. Your tits look great. I'm so proud of
Speaker 1: ever Ever, So it's like that that bummed me out
Speaker 1: a little bit because I think when when they give
Speaker 1: me and Danil fun things to do together, it's so
Speaker 1: much more entertaining than when we're snipping at each other.
Speaker 1: So it was it was like such a breath of
Speaker 1: fresh air the scenes with us leaning on each other,
Speaker 1: and and that was the stuff I thought was so
Speaker 1: well written. The misdirect remains where you still don't know
Speaker 1: who's pregnant, what's happening, you know. I keep trying to
Speaker 1: watch the scenes, remembering that at the time nobody knew
Speaker 1: it was Haley, And it's so tender and real and
Speaker 1: kind and that's really refreshing given all the creepiness in
Speaker 1: the in the show right now. Yes, I know, I
Speaker 1: loved that Matt Bar's back tattoo. God man, that Psycho
Speaker 1: Deeric was really horrifying. And he's so good. Matt Bar
Speaker 1: is just so good at being subtle and um, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought they handled it well in spite of all
Speaker 1: that we were talking about about you know what it
Speaker 1: was bringing in, um, just from a purely artistic level.
Speaker 1: He's a great actor and I thought, you know, Bethany
Speaker 1: did a really nice job with that. She did and
Speaker 1: it's super creepy. Sure is My favorite kind of stories
Speaker 1: are when you can see both sides right and you
Speaker 1: can see the cool older brother energy in Matt Bar.
Speaker 1: Like we said, he's got like Ryan Gosling energy where
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't have a problem with you, Luke,
Speaker 1: Like I think you're a cool guy. Like, what's what's
Speaker 1: going on here? Boy? The second you see that like underlayer,
Speaker 1: you can't un see it. And the escalation of creepy
Speaker 1: in this episode, it just kept getting grosser and grosser
Speaker 1: and grosser. And yeah, I mean I know what was
Speaker 1: going on in l A. Like we've talked about it.
Speaker 1: Our show kind of hit this point where it was
Speaker 1: like no one could correct or give advice to or
Speaker 1: rain In our creator anymore. And so I know that
Speaker 1: that Writer's Room was just a show of like, what
Speaker 1: is the grossest, most inappropriate we can get away with
Speaker 1: on a c W show. And yeah, because we were
Speaker 1: then officially competing with Gossip Girl in the o C
Speaker 1: which was all very still on at that point. I
Speaker 1: think they only did how many seasons did they do?
Speaker 1: Three or four? Well they started after us though, didn't
Speaker 1: they know they're before us? They launched? Oh they were, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was definitely Gossip Girl. I remember that was we
Speaker 1: were constantly hearing that we were in a race with
Speaker 1: Gossip Girl all the time, which was so strange because
Speaker 1: it's just two shows that are completely different. You go
Speaker 1: to these places for completely different things. Well, and we
Speaker 1: all could have been very kumbaya, like what if Brooke
Speaker 1: hung out at the Gossip Girl kids in New York?
Speaker 1: You know it? Girls great, it was fun. It was
Speaker 1: like totally thought you went there for that whole world
Speaker 1: and that vibe. Why did we need to also be
Speaker 1: that world? It didn't make any sense. No, No, a
Speaker 1: female executive energy is like, hey, let's do a fun crossover.
Speaker 1: The energy we had back in those days was we
Speaker 1: hate each other dot dot com. Yeah yeah, and it
Speaker 1: feels like self sabotage, like to have to have two
Speaker 1: of the biggest hit teen shows on the same network
Speaker 1: and nine say, well, we could really use this to
Speaker 1: our advantage, Like why was clothes over? Bros not dressing
Speaker 1: Serena Vanderwoodsen Hello, absolutely, Like Don, why you're not kissing
Speaker 1: that broody dude on the show is what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: grumpy mother girl. Um, do we want to get into
Speaker 1: all the Derek of it all? Because there was so
Speaker 1: much stuff. I feel like it's weird this episode with
Speaker 1: it ping ponged. It was like Derek pregnancy, deb Shelly
Speaker 1: Maxim shoot Hyman's all over all over Well. We had
Speaker 1: the introduction of Elizabeth Arnwa who play Shelly the Clean
Speaker 1: We Love the band. Liz was a friend of mine,
Speaker 1: um and our creator. This was peat creep right where
Speaker 1: he was my betty and was like, what was high
Speaker 1: school really like for you? And so I told him
Speaker 1: that I was a part of a group called clean
Speaker 1: teens in high school and like our joke because that
Speaker 1: we would we were at all the football parties, you know,
Speaker 1: we would like go to stuff, but we'd be like
Speaker 1: virgin for life. You know. It was way of making
Speaker 1: fun of ourselves before anyone else could, but also about
Speaker 1: setting a boundary with the boys at our school so
Speaker 1: that they just knew not to try anything weird, you know.
Speaker 1: And back then there wasn't a lot of that. Um,
Speaker 1: we didn't have like a lot of role models that
Speaker 1: I could be like, hey, you know, actually I don't
Speaker 1: want you touching my boobs. You know, Like it was
Speaker 1: hard to find the language for it, and so making
Speaker 1: a joke out of it, put out a T shirt,
Speaker 1: that's it. It was the easiest thing to do because
Speaker 1: it made it funny and and you had the confidence
Speaker 1: to pull it off because I didn't care. Uh, it
Speaker 1: was just like day, don't date me. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of you. I'll figure it out. Um. And the thing
Speaker 1: is we all were legitimately like virgins, you know, and
Speaker 1: we were good with that. We didn't feel pressured. When
Speaker 1: we were in high school. Was the era of like
Speaker 1: girls gone wild and whip them out Wednesday, and like
Speaker 1: everyone wanted to see your tits and to stand up
Speaker 1: to that and be like, my brand of feminism is
Speaker 1: earn it like you don't. Nobody just gets this. This
Speaker 1: is special. Um, I had no idea when he was like, hey,
Speaker 1: we want to put clean teens on the show. I
Speaker 1: thought he was going to honor kind of what that meant,
Speaker 1: and instead it turned into this really gross parody where
Speaker 1: no one actually was a virgin. They were all just
Speaker 1: hypocrites and liars and mean and mean, like hateful in
Speaker 1: his mind, every chick is a horr at heart. Yeah right, yeah,
Speaker 1: And and when you've been the quote unquote whore that
Speaker 1: exists in his mind, you regret it. You regret your choices,
Speaker 1: you sob over them, and you want to use them
Speaker 1: as a weapon to shame other women who don't express
Speaker 1: this regret over their hordom too. And it's just like
Speaker 1: the whole thing makes me so mad because it's black
Speaker 1: and white. Yeah, And and it it doesn't also tell
Speaker 1: the truth about anything. It doesn't tell the truth about
Speaker 1: your experience. It doesn't it doesn't actually highlight the experiences
Speaker 1: of young women like it's it's like a cartoon version
Speaker 1: of all of it. And at the core of it
Speaker 1: is judgment. Yeah, everything's jammed into one into one, like
Speaker 1: you know, twenty minutes slot when there's so much, so
Speaker 1: much to be explained expounded upon. Um. I mean we
Speaker 1: teased out the water work for six episodes. We could
Speaker 1: have teased out the Shelly the Shelly revealed for a minute.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the interesting conversation, at the very
Speaker 1: least that it sparks is how people mask shame, Like
Speaker 1: what do you do when you feel shame about something,
Speaker 1: whether the shame is justified or not in your own mind?
Speaker 1: There are plenty of things that I feel shame about
Speaker 1: that other people would be like, there's what do you worry?
Speaker 1: What are you worried about? But you know, we all
Speaker 1: have our own versions of that, and how people mask
Speaker 1: it um usually turns into judgment. I think in my
Speaker 1: experience it ends up being you start using your the
Speaker 1: the opposite of whatever it is that you're using to
Speaker 1: cover up your shame. You start taking that and lording
Speaker 1: it over other people and saying, why aren't you doing this?
Speaker 1: Why aren't you doing it the same way I'm doing it?
Speaker 1: See see look, I'm I'm virtuous. I'm doing it the
Speaker 1: right way. Um. And so I've liked the opening of that,
Speaker 1: because that's an interesting conversation to me. I liked that Shelley, Um.
Speaker 1: I think it's strange that she trusts Brooke right away
Speaker 1: with like you know her. Um. I like that she
Speaker 1: represents a lot of the girls I did go to
Speaker 1: school Worth who weren't necessarily in clean teens, but who belonged.
Speaker 1: There was a there was a youth group we would
Speaker 1: go to. They were called the fire Escape and I
Speaker 1: think they were named because you were trying to escape
Speaker 1: the fiery pits of hell and like, yeah, yeah, girl,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm talking about. They had like a haunted
Speaker 1: house that was all like drugs and abortion, and it
Speaker 1: was one of those right. It was like Hillary crazy
Speaker 1: when I tell you I grew up in like the
Speaker 1: thickness of that, I did, and it was It's a
Speaker 1: strange mix because you're friends with those kids and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a Wednesday, and like there's really nothing else to
Speaker 1: do in our town. I guess I'll go to this thing. Um.
Speaker 1: And And I felt really badly for Shelly because I
Speaker 1: don't think her shame is that. UM. I don't think
Speaker 1: the shame is hers. I think the shame is something
Speaker 1: that is imposed on her by her parents and her church.
Speaker 1: And Shelly talks about you meet a boy and you're
Speaker 1: having fun and everything's like great, and I can't tell
Speaker 1: my parents I got pregnant at church camp. And it's like, well, baby,
Speaker 1: why can't you? Why can't you? That's awesome A great
Speaker 1: question because judgment, judgment isn't love. And what bothers me
Speaker 1: about I don't know about that. Well that that's that's
Speaker 1: my opinion anyway, is that like you don't judge in shame,
Speaker 1: Like if you can't tell the people who say they
Speaker 1: love you what you're going through, whether those people will
Speaker 1: have an opinion that it is a good thing or
Speaker 1: a bad thing, that's not love, you're not safe. And
Speaker 1: and what I struggle with in this again when you
Speaker 1: look at who we worked for, a man who cared
Speaker 1: not at all about the real experiences of women, who
Speaker 1: wanted to write fantasy experiences of women, and a man,
Speaker 1: by the way, who does not have children, so has
Speaker 1: no concept of what pregnancy is and no concept that
Speaker 1: if you want to have a baby, yes it's a miracle,
Speaker 1: but pregnancy is literally a life threatening condition, like to
Speaker 1: bottom life threatening condition miraculous, So special. I can't wait
Speaker 1: to be a mom. My husband is so cute. All
Speaker 1: I want is a little ginger baby that looks like
Speaker 1: but like Grants pictures is a little boy with red hair.
Speaker 1: Just give me eight of them. Like, I can't say it,
Speaker 1: but like, pregnancy is dangerous and we've divested from these realities.
Speaker 1: And what bothers me about someone like our boss writing
Speaker 1: this story, which is shame, shame, shame, regret, regret, regret, nightmare, nightmare, nightmare.
Speaker 1: My parents judged me, and my church judged me. All
Speaker 1: the stuff you were mentioning, how like it's actually antithetical
Speaker 1: to the real exp variances of women in our country,
Speaker 1: of women who seek reproductive care, who seek abortion care
Speaker 1: are already mothers plural. Well, the mythology is it's all
Speaker 1: slutty teenage girls exactly. And that's why it angers me,
Speaker 1: is the mythology does a disservice. It's it's repeating the
Speaker 1: same kinds of lies as that other vertical we've talked about,
Speaker 1: which like grooms boys to be violent and tells them
Speaker 1: that's masculinity. Like, I don't like when men repeat lies
Speaker 1: about women that harm women. And I really I struggle
Speaker 1: with the ways that all of us in various storylines
Speaker 1: Elizabeth with this thing was Shelley that each of us
Speaker 1: have talked about how vulnerable we felt when we had
Speaker 1: to do things on screen that we knew to not
Speaker 1: be true. I don't like that a forty five year
Speaker 1: old married man who who wanted to cheat on his
Speaker 1: wife with twenty year old girls was writing storylines that
Speaker 1: shamed sixteen year old girl. It like, it makes my
Speaker 1: blood boil, you know, I see exactly where you're coming from.
Speaker 1: It just irks me. Man. I think there is on
Speaker 1: the on another viewpoint of that, there is a realism
Speaker 1: to um. I have spoken with plenty of women in
Speaker 1: my life who have had abortions and feel and they
Speaker 1: do feel regret about it, um and then there are
Speaker 1: many who don't um so and I think the fear
Speaker 1: and this how scared it is to be a teenage
Speaker 1: girl and be in that position. You know, as I said,
Speaker 1: we were watching the episode, that does seem realistic to me.
Speaker 1: I think that's a realistic situation. But in the context
Speaker 1: of everything that we're talking about with who the boss,
Speaker 1: who our boss was, UM, how he was just using
Speaker 1: all of these like very deeply complex emotional issues and
Speaker 1: turning them into quips and sound bites and like from
Speaker 1: little emotional storylines. It takes away from the value that
Speaker 1: actually maybe could have offered. Well, he weaponizes those things
Speaker 1: into purity politics. And I hear what you're saying, and
Speaker 1: I also have to say, like, I have a handful
Speaker 1: of girlfriends who've had abortions who don't regret it, and
Speaker 1: many of many women I've spoken to who are only
Speaker 1: alive because they were able to have abortions, like whose
Speaker 1: lives were threatened by terminal pregnancies. And the reality of
Speaker 1: this conversation which everyone is entitled to their feelings and
Speaker 1: their opinions and their emotions. It's an emotional conversation for people.
Speaker 1: But it is nobody's business to place judgment on what
Speaker 1: you need or what you needed at the time, or
Speaker 1: what you needed to stay alive, or or what you
Speaker 1: needed to get out of an abusive relationship, or just
Speaker 1: what you needed because it wasn't right for your life.
Speaker 1: It's nobody's business. And what bothers me here is the
Speaker 1: judgment that again this man put on all of us
Speaker 1: as girls. I just it. Just imagine being a sixteen
Speaker 1: year old girl at home who had had an abortion
Speaker 1: in two thousand six and watching this and being like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm bad. Like, we didn't need to do it that way.
Speaker 1: We just didn't need to have this conversation in that way,
Speaker 1: and it didn't need to be had by a man
Speaker 1: who treated women the way that man treated all of us. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just didn't see it that way. I didn't see
Speaker 1: it as like, I'm like, if I was sixteen at
Speaker 1: home and saw that and think I'm bad, I would
Speaker 1: think it's relatable because I probably would have felt some
Speaker 1: of those things. And I what was interesting is that
Speaker 1: Shelley did take though that all of those that shame
Speaker 1: and emotion and turn it into judgment and it was
Speaker 1: very clear that she was doing that and it was
Speaker 1: very gross, and so it was it was I thought
Speaker 1: it was a nice way of saying, hey, don't yes,
Speaker 1: don't shame people, don't act out in judgment the way
Speaker 1: that she's handling this, because it's not pretty and it's harmful.
Speaker 1: It's hurtful. I like the way Elizabeth played it, Like
Speaker 1: that panic that she exhibits while she's telling the story
Speaker 1: to Brooke. It's like she's having an anxiety attack as
Speaker 1: she's telling Brooke. And you know when your nervous system
Speaker 1: is so affected by something that you just cannot mask it,
Speaker 1: and you see like Shelley's nervous system just like glitching
Speaker 1: as she's telling this story because she's trying to make
Speaker 1: it make sense and she's like, I have to find
Speaker 1: the path of like righteousness and this, and the other
Speaker 1: thing that bugged me about this was I was like,
Speaker 1: why do you think all church people are hypocrites? Like, like,
Speaker 1: why is the one church person you have in the
Speaker 1: entire series the one who's like, I'm a big fat
Speaker 1: liar and I loved you know, like that was his
Speaker 1: one representation of a church person on the show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it would have been nice to see some alternatives perspectives. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's judgment. It's just judgment all around, and I don't
Speaker 1: like it, but I do I will say, you know,
Speaker 1: I think I think the silver lining to your point Hill.
Speaker 1: And by the way, Joy, you're talking about her performance too,
Speaker 1: is that Elizabeth took something that felt pretty icky all
Speaker 1: around and was like I'm going to figure out how
Speaker 1: to make this girl feel human and and maybe even
Speaker 1: be an example of like what cruel judgment looks like,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna do more with her.
Speaker 1: Like she brought that visceral anxiety, she brought that misplaced
Speaker 1: emotion that she's dumping on Brooks. She brought all of that.
Speaker 1: You know, she put so much more into the performance
Speaker 1: than than what our boss put on the page. And
Speaker 1: that is when like, I just have moments where I
Speaker 1: look at, you know, the three of us on the
Speaker 1: on the screen right out and our our friends. I
Speaker 1: look at Liz and Neil on screen, and I just think, like,
Speaker 1: we got such a badass group of women because we
Speaker 1: were unwilling to be shrunken by the man who wanted
Speaker 1: to like shrink us and put us all in these
Speaker 1: little boxers us like Ripley's believe it or not right
Speaker 1: sunk the kids. Like one of my most favorite memories,
Speaker 1: as the course of season four goes on, is that
Speaker 1: he had hired Liz specifically because he was like, well,
Speaker 1: if this is something that really happened to you, do
Speaker 1: you have like a hot friend that should come play
Speaker 1: this person. And I was like, yes, like my friend Elizabeth,
Speaker 1: you know, like and she's friends with Danil and like
Speaker 1: our girl gang will be together and his fantasy was like,
Speaker 1: this is going to be so hot, and instead what
Speaker 1: ended up happening is a stone wall, just like all
Speaker 1: the chicks would hide after work and compare notes, and
Speaker 1: it was the worst thing that ever happened to It's
Speaker 1: so victorious that the idea of and this this leads
Speaker 1: me a bit into Dan, the idea of judgment as
Speaker 1: love UM and I want to I want to tap
Speaker 1: on that a little because I don't think it's in
Speaker 1: the in the way that it initially sounds like. But
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking of is the reason that we demand
Speaker 1: in our spirits or our hearts, this judgment over um
Speaker 1: Keith's death, over the way that Nathan is being taken
Speaker 1: care of, not being taken care of the way he's
Speaker 1: been treated by his parents, particularly with Dan. We want
Speaker 1: to see Dan received the justice that he is due
Speaker 1: for the horrible things that he's done. And we want
Speaker 1: that because we love Nathan, because we loved Keith, and
Speaker 1: I think that desire for justice often then turns into
Speaker 1: shame immediately instead of UM acknowledging like where it's coming from,
Speaker 1: this deep deep love. And when I watch Nathan and
Speaker 1: Deb and Dan in this episode, I think a lot
Speaker 1: about that because Nathan you said it in the last
Speaker 1: episode that we filmed Hillary or taped, um that Nathan
Speaker 1: is in like full trauma mode. He's been basically a
Speaker 1: bit abandoned by his parents. He's um, he's his uncle
Speaker 1: has been shot. I mean, I guess we can just
Speaker 1: start going down the list of all the horrible thing
Speaker 1: the year. All right, he fell off his bike this episode, Yes,
Speaker 1: all of these awful things that are happening, and now
Speaker 1: he's totally acting out with Rachel, which is still a
Speaker 1: little confus excuse me, still a little confusing to me.
Speaker 1: But um, I like the dance. I like this back
Speaker 1: and forth just as drama. It's it's really interesting to
Speaker 1: watch what's happening with his parents and all that they've created,
Speaker 1: the hurricane that they've created, how it's affecting him, and
Speaker 1: how it's affecting both of them right now, like everybody's
Speaker 1: spiling out of control because there's no justice happening. Do
Speaker 1: you guys, do you think that that intervention at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the episode would have been more successful if
Speaker 1: Dan hadn't been invited, Like, yeah, thats just how are there?
Speaker 1: I feel like no one could have expected that to
Speaker 1: go well well, and they knew that it wasn't going
Speaker 1: to play well, which I think is why they gave
Speaker 1: the therapist the line being like, you know, everyone who's
Speaker 1: important to you has to be here, because everyone was like,
Speaker 1: why is he here? She hates him, like like he's
Speaker 1: driven her to drink. She should not be the one
Speaker 1: in the room. The worst interventional best ever, Please invite
Speaker 1: the play the person that's going to make you feel
Speaker 1: at least safe your abuser. Didn't that man grab you
Speaker 1: by the threat of a week ago? Yeah, threatened to
Speaker 1: kill you. We'll have him come when. I didn't love
Speaker 1: the reveal of Keeps sleeping with dev That was kind
Speaker 1: of oh my god, Hayley Hilarus getting all of the
Speaker 1: tea is so good, Keith sleeping with what was the
Speaker 1: other one? Wait? There was one more that you were
Speaker 1: just was happening. There were multiple things and you just
Speaker 1: like swinging your head around like why does nobody tell
Speaker 1: me anything? I was cackling. That's an intimidating thing though
Speaker 1: for a kid, because you know, addiction is scary. When
Speaker 1: this when we were filming this, remember that show Intervention.
Speaker 1: It was a hit, like it had only I watched
Speaker 1: that show all the time. We would get off work
Speaker 1: and like watch that show because it was like, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I can't believe this is on TV. It's
Speaker 1: crazy sometimes how topical our show is because we were
Speaker 1: really drawing from the other things that were cultural at
Speaker 1: the time. Um and that show intervention was like a
Speaker 1: really big deal. But deb playing it so um like
Speaker 1: she really does not care. She just does not care
Speaker 1: at all, And it's heartbreaking because we know we've seen
Speaker 1: the good and so it just makes this feel so
Speaker 1: like scuzzy and weird. Well because you know how much
Speaker 1: she does care, and so there's some kind of connective
Speaker 1: tissue that makes you watch her in this episode and
Speaker 1: think if this is how far gone she is. Essentially,
Speaker 1: she's behaving like she doesn't care if she's alive or not,
Speaker 1: and that is such a sad place for a human
Speaker 1: to be. And and the projection of that none of
Speaker 1: this matters energy on her son onto her daughter in law.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine being the tea you're in that classroom
Speaker 1: or just like man, it's the mayor's wife. I guess
Speaker 1: I better demands pills from a teenager. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: a call the CPS, even if the kid doesn't live
Speaker 1: in the house anymore, Like that's a phone call for sure,
Speaker 1: he's a man. You walk over and take the bottle
Speaker 1: of pills off the desk, so nobody gets to take
Speaker 1: anybody home take any pills. Somebody gets the pills. Now,
Speaker 1: that's what Haley became a great teacher. No pills for you,
Speaker 1: no pills for you. No one knew what to do,
Speaker 1: and the teacher just says, Okay, everybody, back to your tests.
Speaker 1: What insane? That made me uncomfortable that boy. You know
Speaker 1: what I did love was, um, you guys, as I
Speaker 1: makeup in this episode, we all had the double wing.
Speaker 1: It was like it was the hair Hillary too. It
Speaker 1: was a double who was doing our makeup? Was this
Speaker 1: Rachel kick? Was this? Honestly? Yeah? Because it all felt
Speaker 1: like a little like punk rock princess. I loved that
Speaker 1: we got We got some Cosmo girl and teen people
Speaker 1: issues in that hair and makeup trail, and we were like,
Speaker 1: we want this this one. That's just what my notes say.
Speaker 1: Peyton's Luke, Yeah, you had the double eyeliner and I
Speaker 1: had that single like sixties wing and I didn't even
Speaker 1: realize it until we were at trick, but we both
Speaker 1: had our hair half up different dudes, Like yours was
Speaker 1: really curly and romantic and mine had like that that
Speaker 1: like little sixties push up in the back almost. But
Speaker 1: I wonder if they were like, we don't want to touch. Well,
Speaker 1: that's probably what it was, but it weirdly struck me
Speaker 1: visually as oh, you know, we have these two best
Speaker 1: friends that aren't speaking right now, but they can't help
Speaker 1: but make the same choices still because they're so similar, know,
Speaker 1: like that like we kind of showed up looking like
Speaker 1: each other, and I like, yeah, we sure did. I
Speaker 1: mean we're going after the same dude or not? Who knows. Um.
Speaker 1: I just want to say Peyton once again is like
Speaker 1: co tuk to Brook Luke, I'll never talk. I okay,
Speaker 1: I'll talk to I give I give you to her
Speaker 1: on a silver platter. She's all yours. Peyton could not
Speaker 1: have tried harder to get those two back together. It's
Speaker 1: all so funny. It is so funny. It's like Lucas says,
Speaker 1: all those boys, she's all yours, fellas, and you're basically
Speaker 1: like Lucas, She's really she's all yours. She's the one
Speaker 1: everybody's just trying to give Brook away. Oh god, it's
Speaker 1: only a matter of time before Payton does that thing
Speaker 1: where she like sends flowers to Brook but signs Lucas's name,
Speaker 1: like starts like doing parent traps. Has to get back together.
Speaker 1: She's doing the cute ver of Derek telling lies to everybody,
Speaker 1: but instead of trying to keep him apart, she's trying
Speaker 1: to make a romance happen. God, we tried, you know,
Speaker 1: we sure tried, but that that whole night at Trick
Speaker 1: is weird because we laughed so hard when when Rachel
Speaker 1: slides an underwear picture over to Nathan on the bar,
Speaker 1: and it just is so dated because now we send
Speaker 1: iPhone pictures like here, look at my boobs, congratulations, But
Speaker 1: you had to print out a whole as picture in
Speaker 1: whatever I printed this out at Costco and keeping your locker. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wore underwear in this shot to make sure the
Speaker 1: guy at right it didn't see my ariolas, Like, oh god,
Speaker 1: you that word makes me so uncomfortable. I mean, to
Speaker 1: Nathan's credit, he passed the picture back. He gave it back.
Speaker 1: He did, he did give it that. That's what I
Speaker 1: was going to say, I really I continue to be
Speaker 1: so impressed with the way that James plays Nathan in
Speaker 1: all of these scenes, because it would be so easy
Speaker 1: to lean into flirting with Rachel, and he he manages
Speaker 1: to be very compassionate, but to have a firm wallup.
Speaker 1: He's not judging her, he's not shaming her, he's not
Speaker 1: leading her on. He's just like, you're going through something.
Speaker 1: I see you. This is not for me. It's it's
Speaker 1: so it's classy and mature. Yeah, it's getting into dangerous
Speaker 1: territory though, Oh yeah, I feel it's like bubbling beneath
Speaker 1: the surface, like it's getting into a place where he
Speaker 1: could potentially still sleep with her just because he feels
Speaker 1: like it, and there's some kind of chemistry happening, but
Speaker 1: not get emotionally caught up in it. Hey man, she's
Speaker 1: having a rough time, I know well. And you see
Speaker 1: the way he begins to change the energy, like who
Speaker 1: Nathan is at that bar when he hands that picture
Speaker 1: back to Rachel, begins getting chipped away at by the
Speaker 1: time they're out in the parking lot and he gets
Speaker 1: on that motorcycle with her. But to James's credit, it's
Speaker 1: so subtle and it would have been really easy to
Speaker 1: play it up and to go, oh god, what's happening
Speaker 1: to Nathan? But you said it Joy, you go, I
Speaker 1: can see it. It might be coming, and I love
Speaker 1: I love the hint of it rather than the the
Speaker 1: big change happening quickly. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Well the scene
Speaker 1: that you guys had Haley and Nathan where he is
Speaker 1: just like, can you believe Brooke is doing this to Lucas?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's scene. I know. That was the
Speaker 1: first time that I think as an audience member, you go, oh,
Speaker 1: it's Haley, it's not Brooke because they let me have
Speaker 1: the reaction there. Yeah, and you're like, because she's scared,
Speaker 1: and he says, yeah, i'd be scared. Don't you tell
Speaker 1: a guy's life's over. Oh the gut bunch like you guys,
Speaker 1: that turned my stomach upside down. Yea, yeah awful. They're
Speaker 1: gonna have to go back to their round bed and
Speaker 1: talk about it. Yeah. I mean, if he's going to
Speaker 1: crawl on top of you again, talk it out, baby.
Speaker 1: Where do you find sheets for a round bed? Girl?
Speaker 1: I think you have to have two flat sheets and
Speaker 1: then just like hope it doesn't untalk in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night. How distressing have you, guys seen the
Speaker 1: videos about the Swedish sleeping method. I went down, you, guys,
Speaker 1: I went down a hole on t found actually a man.
Speaker 1: Imagine that this journal that I'm lifting up is your bed,
Speaker 1: like this is the mattress, but this half and this
Speaker 1: half are their own comforters. So you basically get like
Speaker 1: two queen size comforters and you like lightly overlap them
Speaker 1: over the center, so each person has their own comforter,
Speaker 1: but you're in the bed. I don't I don't like
Speaker 1: to lose covers in the middle of the night, so
Speaker 1: I don't know that it would be for me. But
Speaker 1: I've now watched so many videos about it that I'm obsessed,
Speaker 1: and I know that at some point this week I'm
Speaker 1: gonna creep my husband out because I'm gonna be like, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring another comforter downstairs and be like, what
Speaker 1: are you talking about? Listen, it's not as weird as
Speaker 1: a round bed. Let me try this because for one night. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we need to be more creative in our bedmaking. I
Speaker 1: get it. I get it. Plus you two are like
Speaker 1: both only children. I think like having your own blank
Speaker 1: ese is totally cool. Yeah, and then why do you
Speaker 1: have kids, because that's a whole that's a whole reason.
Speaker 1: I know what we do do that is quite funny
Speaker 1: is I love to sleep under a weighted blanket because
Speaker 1: I have tremendous anxiety and it calms me. I'm like,
Speaker 1: if you've ever read Temple Grandin's studies on farm animals,
Speaker 1: you'll know that to be squeezed lowers anxiety and animals
Speaker 1: and in humans. And so I sleep under a weighted blanket,
Speaker 1: and a weighted blanket is Grant's worst nightmare. He is
Speaker 1: like that that is my it's evil. I hate it.
Speaker 1: So what we said, that's heaven. Oh my god, it's
Speaker 1: my heaven. We're just like heavy, a nice heavy blanket.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like it's just like a nice it's
Speaker 1: a nice touch. And so what we do now is
Speaker 1: the weighted blanket is on one third of the bed,
Speaker 1: like all the way on the right side, one third
Speaker 1: from the bottom of the bed up to the top
Speaker 1: of the cover's weighted blanket, and then there's two thirds
Speaker 1: of the bed that's uncovered, so I can cuddle with
Speaker 1: him in the two thirds of the uncovered bed. And
Speaker 1: then when we're both like about to follow, I scooch.
Speaker 1: I retreat over under the weighted blanket, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: get on his legs because he hates it. There's no
Speaker 1: retreating on a round bed, like there's not an edge.
Speaker 1: You just fall off. By the way, where are your
Speaker 1: feet supposed to go? They're gonna dangle off the curved No,
Speaker 1: it's totally totally non functional. I feel like the only
Speaker 1: way to sleep on a round bed is to sleep
Speaker 1: in the fetal position at all times, which is not
Speaker 1: good for your back. Or just be a single person,
Speaker 1: one person in one single you're just like a starfish.
Speaker 1: A round bed is for when you go through a
Speaker 1: breakup and you're happy about it and you're like, it's mine.
Speaker 1: Start now. Here's what I need for us to do
Speaker 1: is take the video you acting out all of those
Speaker 1: things right now, but mute it and then just run
Speaker 1: the tape. Start that and this and this the mold
Speaker 1: making shuffling. Oh my god, guys, we have a question
Speaker 1: from Dana. She says, did you all make a playlist
Speaker 1: together for the drama Queens RV Road Trip? And what
Speaker 1: are some of the songs you played to get you hyped?
Speaker 1: For shows. We definitely had some Abba and that we
Speaker 1: didn't make a play but we had a we had
Speaker 1: a DJ, and yeah, we made live to playlists every day.
Speaker 1: What is that when you like add songs to the queue,
Speaker 1: And yeah, we were doing we were doing a lot
Speaker 1: of like Abba show tunes. I was trying to go
Speaker 1: back to senior year in high school and requested Vitamin
Speaker 1: C graduation song and could not have been less into it.
Speaker 1: So I just like remember looking in the rear view
Speaker 1: mirror at one point and she was like, are we
Speaker 1: there yet? You were not of it all. I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to go back to like Abba and share.
Speaker 1: I'd really been feeling that vibe. I will say though,
Speaker 1: the other thing that I loved, because obviously we love podcasts.
Speaker 1: I loved that we had the perfect mix of tunes
Speaker 1: that we were belting and then we would get into
Speaker 1: podcasts and Hillary, you played us your Friends podcast Robbia
Speaker 1: and Ellen Solve Crime and solved the case. Okay, you
Speaker 1: played us your Friends podcast Robbie and Ellen Solved Case.
Speaker 1: I am so deeply obsessed that I've also gone down
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole on the case. We talked about and
Speaker 1: say a bunch of TikTok videos to some friends and
Speaker 1: I'm like, guys, you gotta listen to this podcast. It's
Speaker 1: so good. I must have been sleeping when this happened.
Speaker 1: You were definitely sleeping. Robbie and Chaudre is Um. She's
Speaker 1: got a book that just came out called Fatty Fatty
Speaker 1: Boom Boom. It's her memoir. But she is a lawyer
Speaker 1: who was vital in getting a non said out of prison.
Speaker 1: And she does a lot of exoneration work and wrongful
Speaker 1: conviction work. And I met her working on a wrongful
Speaker 1: conviction case in Tennessee. And so I love seeing other
Speaker 1: women out there thrive and pushed back against patriarchy and
Speaker 1: unjust systems. And yeah, I mean, look, if we could
Speaker 1: do a crossover with like chicks who are solving crimes,
Speaker 1: will be drama crime Queen all day, give it to
Speaker 1: a day. I'm so in Yeah, yeah man Um, Well
Speaker 1: thank you for your question, Dana. Yeah. Should we's been
Speaker 1: a wheel? That's been a wheel? What if it's so?
Speaker 1: What if it's who's most likely it's solved true crimes?
Speaker 1: I would die solid crimes? Is the wheel listening to us?
Speaker 1: Oh my God, don't be a creep wheel, don't be
Speaker 1: a Darren. Who's most likely to travel to space? Who's
Speaker 1: the richest? I am our boss made all the money
Speaker 1: on our show? Unfortunately? Andy? Answer, Andy, Andy's the right answer.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, what is if money wasn't an option? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: not an option. Did you see that thing that William
Speaker 1: Shatner said about seeing Earth from space and how he
Speaker 1: thought it was going to be the best moment of
Speaker 1: his life and instead it made him so incredibly sad.
Speaker 1: Wait why really? He was, like, it just made me
Speaker 1: realize that we were squandering the most beautiful thing I've
Speaker 1: ever seen in my life. Like it was to have
Speaker 1: someone whose entire career has been space oriented finally like
Speaker 1: do the thing and then have it made him feel remorseful,
Speaker 1: I guess, or just like an element of grief. I
Speaker 1: was really taken aback by that. That's surprising. Yeah, as
Speaker 1: a Ray Bradberry fan, I always thought like, yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: go live on Mars. That sounds dope, Yeah, I'll go
Speaker 1: do that. But I think it's really interesting that that point, right,
Speaker 1: because you know, I've I've listened to a couple of
Speaker 1: astronauts on podcasts as well who said that it when
Speaker 1: you really see the Earth out there and you realize
Speaker 1: what's here, like what is on this planet and you
Speaker 1: just see the rest of space, there's just like rocks
Speaker 1: out there in the empty You go, how how are
Speaker 1: we still fighting over things? How are we not all
Speaker 1: on the same team? How are we not protecting this planet?
Speaker 1: Like it's a miracle. And so I feel that, you know,
Speaker 1: the when you look around and you go like, man,
Speaker 1: we're still missing it after all this time, Like aren't
Speaker 1: we supposed to be smarter, be nice to each other everyone.
Speaker 1: I like things that make me feel small. I think
Speaker 1: it's one of the reasons. And also things that just
Speaker 1: remind me I'm like a cog in the wheel. I
Speaker 1: think that's why I've always been attracted to um antique
Speaker 1: stores and having things in my home that are that
Speaker 1: have history, because it's like a sort of subconscious reminder
Speaker 1: that there was a whole life and world and many
Speaker 1: many thousands and thousands of civilization years of civilization before
Speaker 1: this moment right now and there you know, hopefully we'll
Speaker 1: be many more in the future. And I'm just like
Speaker 1: I'm a blip on the radar. Well, I found the
Speaker 1: exact quote, he says, it was among the strongest feelings
Speaker 1: of grief I have ever encountered. The trassed between the
Speaker 1: vicious coldness of space and the warm nurturing of Earth
Speaker 1: below filled me with overwhelming sadness. Every day we are
Speaker 1: confronted with the knowledge of further destruction of Earth at
Speaker 1: our hands, the extinction of animal species, of flora and fauna,
Speaker 1: things that took five billion years to evolve, and suddenly
Speaker 1: we will never see them again because of the interference
Speaker 1: of mankind. It filled me with dread. My trip to
Speaker 1: space was supposed to be a celebration. Instead it felt
Speaker 1: like a funeral. Willie William Shatner. Then you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm glad we made a TV show that's about mankind
Speaker 1: trying to be nice to each other. You know, I mean, like,
Speaker 1: for all the dorkiness of One Tree Hill, for all
Speaker 1: of our missteps. If we are going to be here
Speaker 1: for a blip, like, let's make let's make a warm hug.
Speaker 1: You Also, thanks for joining us. I didn't know William
Speaker 1: Shatner was so poetic and I'm so touched. Oh yeah, well,
Speaker 1: let's go make some more loving content. Guys. Let's do
Speaker 1: it all right. We will see you guys next week.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this title is awful and perfect. Oh no,
Speaker 1: Season four, Episode five, I love you, but I have
Speaker 1: chosen darkness. Done, don't do by everybody, by y'all. Hey,
Speaker 1: thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.
Speaker 1: You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens
Speaker 1: O t H. Or email us at Drama Queens at
Speaker 1: I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We
Speaker 1: are all about that high school drama. Girl Drama Girl,
Speaker 1: all about them high school queens. We'll take you for
Speaker 1: a ride in our comic Girl Cheering for the right
Speaker 1: drama Queens up girl fashion, but your tough girl, you
Speaker 1: can sit with us. Girl Drama Queens, Drama, Queens Drama,
Speaker 1: Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama, Queens