WEBVTT - Did Donald Trump Ban Buffalo? 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:09.000 Also media, Hello and welcome. It could happen here a 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.920 very special episode today because I am lucky enough to 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:13.560 be joined by Molly Konga. 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.360 Hi Molly, Hi James, thanks for having me. I'm excited 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:17.880 to hear about today's topic. 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.240 Yeah, today's topic is buffalo. If this just came up 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.800 on your phone without you clicking in, so, I guess, look, buffalo. 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.720 When people imagine the great planes before European colonization, I 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:36.280 think buffalo are the fauna that they particularly imagine being present. Right. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.040 It's such a romantic image, right, and they're gone now, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.400 but they were one so many. Like every time we 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:43.919 drive through southwest Virginia. I'm in central Virginia, so when 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.519 we drive through southwestern Virginia, my husband always brings up 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.639 this account that he read of someone witnessing the buffalo 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.760 stampeding through the Cumberland Gap. Like we're oh wow, yeah, 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.120 right down on the tip of southwestern Virginia and just 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.240 looking at that place and imagining buffalo there, like you 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:01.200 have to romanticize it. 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:01.880 That's incredible. 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.720 Yeah, that's sick. One of the coolest like American experiences 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.240 I've ever had. Maybe seven or eight years ago. Now, 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:13.880 I was bike packing in the Colorado Wyoming border up there, 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.480 and I was with some friends. We've been like maybe 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:19.120 we're like three or four days in, you know, like 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.480 where you kind of hit the sweet spot at that 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:23.600 point when you like have it showered for that long 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.039 and you're just kind of disconnected from the world. That's 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.319 when it starts to get Molly's making a face you 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:29.920 can't see. 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:32.800 Just four days of human stink, it really starts to 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:33.200 get good. 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:35.440 That's when it gets good because you're just like, that's 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.039 how long it takes to disconnect, right, something at your 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.039 phone and like worrying about not smelling the. 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.640 Stuff, becoming a beast of the outdoors. 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.240 Yeah, you just returned to your feral self. I'd like 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:48.280 to return to my feral self as often as possible. 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.400 But we're like riding. I get where we're going at Walden. 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:56.160 Maybe we're coming off this big plateau dropping into this 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.200 big kind of like where it gets kind of more plane, 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.000 e big big kind of meadow plane. And we're coming 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.960 down there and it's a few of us and these 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.480 buffalo just come like from the side of us and 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.640 they're running alongside us, right, and we're riding you and 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.239 we're cooking, going twenty twenty five miles an ho or 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.520 something like that, and these buffalo were just cruising next 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.200 to us because they're just trying to get like trying 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:24.040 to check out, like what are these weirdos doing? And 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:25.880 they're just like why the fuck would you put all 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.040 your stuff on a bicycle and go ride around like this? 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:29.920 And then we're like, oh, it's a fucking buffalo, And 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.680 like for like maybe a mile, they just kind of 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:35.120 wanted to keep this thing that they just wanted to 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:36.799 keep tabs on us as we're going down this dirt 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:38.720 road and then like they were getting really close, right, 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:40.880 so they're like kicking up all this dust, and you 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:42.760 got to feel like you were like almost one of 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:46.040 the buffalo. You know, you're like in the herd traversing 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:46.560 the planes. 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.480 I think you're supposed to keep your distance from them, right, Yeah, 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:51.160 they were. 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.959 We didn't have many choice at that point. 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.280 Yeah, when they're like do not approach, Yeah, they were 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:01.080 approaching us. We didn't stop. I was like pretty pretty 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.280 keen on not stopping. And Molly is right, they look 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.760 so pettable, but they're really not. They're really Yeah, despite 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.120 their fluffy appearance, it's it's advised. Like any time in 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:13.760 the Yellowstone pretty much, especially in these summer months, you 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:18.800 will find a video tourist approaching a buffalo and regretting 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.320 that decision. But pretty big. I've been going by a 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.840 bowl before, and I would like to keep it to 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:25.240 a one. 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:29.400 Going for me, one is all most people get. 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.240 Yeah, yeah it is. I was pretty let me tell you, 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:33.960 I thought that one was all I was going to get. 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.160 I was I was ready to make my peace with 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.200 the world. Luckily I got a second chance. 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:40.560 Yeah. 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.160 People kind of focus on a buffalo, right, They ignore 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:48.600 many of the other species that we lost during dis 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:53.560 intent period of ecological destruction, right, And I can see why. Really, 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.360 you can find images of piles of dead buffalo skulls. 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:58.640 There's that like really haunting image of the idea of 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.280 killing animals only for their capes or their tongues. Often, 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.400 this period of genocidal violence is referred to as a 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:10.000 buffalo genocide, and I think that encapsulates, right, not just 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:16.320 the destruction of the buffalo population, but also of the 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:19.400 indigenous cultures that relied on that buffalo population and of 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.000 the ecology they went with. Obviously, when I say destruction. 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:25.000 I'm not saying they're gone very much till here till present, 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:29.960 but the attempt by the government in capitalism to remove 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.359 those people from that land. But yeah, it is a 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.240 shame that these other animals don't get a fatcha. Have 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:36.640 you ever seen a blackfooted ferret? 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:39.360 When you said there was going to be something about ferrets, 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.960 I was thinking about it and I realized all domesticated 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.479 animals were wild animals, and it never occurred to me 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:46.919 that a ferret could live outside. 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.440 Yeah, a ferret thrives in the outdoors. I really wanted 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:53.599 to have ferrets when I was younger, Like, I enjoyed 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:56.800 the presence of ferrets. I enjoyed working with ferrets. 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.839 Oh he's kind of cute in a way, he's gross. 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.680 The ferrets are very sweet. Yeah, we had we had 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:07.360 friend with ferrets growing up, so we would use them 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:11.520 to They use them to catch rabbits in the UK, right. Oh. Yeah. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.880 The reason that these guys struggle to get back on 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:19.120 the landscape is because they need massive prairie dog towns 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:20.080 to feed of. 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.120 Oh do they live in like societies? Do they live 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.919 like a prairie dog's So the ferrets live in like 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:27.159 ferret villages. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.520 The ferrets predate the prairie dogs. 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:31.200 But do they live in like a village. 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:32.800 I don't know if they live in like I don't 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.560 know what their social structure is. In Colorado, there's a 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.120 National Blackfooted Ferret Center where you can go and see them. 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.160 I've cycled past it, but I regret not going in. 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.320 Maybe I'll make a special trip reach out if you're 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:46.279 with the ferret people. 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.120 Sorry, I said, he looks gross. 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:51.760 Yeah, please don't counsel us. Because the prairie dog towns 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:55.559 can collapse, right, Really, their populations can collapse pretty easily. 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.160 They get like infectious diseases. So they need like a 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:01.520 massive number of prairie dog towns in order to have 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:04.120 a sustainable, genetically diverse ferret population. 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:05.120 Oh, I get it. 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.600 I get it. And because we don't have those, right, 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.000 because they are not generally amenable to agriculture, and then 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.400 the ecosystem is very different from it what it's naturally worse. 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.840 That means I don't know if there are any there 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.840 are when they're not extinct genetically but ecologically in terms 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.600 of their participation in the ecosystem, I don't think there 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.159 are any very fair I think there are some in 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:29.640 the Charles Russell Wildlife Refuge, but very few blackfooted ferrets, 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.000 which is a shame because they're cool little guys. 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:34.000 I mean, I guess, given what we did to the 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.080 landscape of so much of the country, I'm sure there 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.880 are other animals that just like their niche is gone. 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.760 Yeah, and that is exactly what I want to talk 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.479 about today, right, Like, specifically, I want to talk about 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:50.400 buffalo because of the canceling of some public land grazingly 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:54.039 since for buffalo, before we do that, Molley, we should 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:59.000 talk about the terminology, right, the buffalo bison discussion. 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.920 Right, because they're not folow their bison bison. 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.160 And as we are, what five minutes into this, someone 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:07.560 has already logged onto Reddit. 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.520 They have opened, already made the threat already exists. It's 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:12.480 already that address. It's too late. 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:14.320 Yeah, we should have moved this to the to the 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.160 front of the episode again and that if that is 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:21.680 you redditing, please stop. I am aware that scientifically we 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:26.160 should call them bison. I don't care. English speaking people 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.880 have been calling these animals buffalo since English speaking people 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.640 came to this continent. They did so because the animals 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:33.960 reminded them of cape buffalo. I actually have had a 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.360 frame gored by a cape buffalo as well. We're going 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.000 through most of my goring experience. 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.120 You got to leave these big cow type creatures alone. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.600 He was ambushed that my my going was entirely my fault, 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:49.880 like you shouldn't be unkind to animals, and I deserved it, 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.160 and it was a good learning experience for me. It wasn't. 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.720 I think it's just a bad overall experience. Being God 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:57.760 wouldn't recommend it. 0:07:57.800 --> 0:07:58.600 I'm avoiding it. 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.360 Yeah, you've got this far, you're probably good. I think 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:03.920 men in their twenties are probably like Peaple. 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.520 I doesn't say. I think once you hit thirty, your 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:08.160 odds decreased dramatically. 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.640 Yeah, you're out the wind unless you're working with cattle, 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:12.520 like my dad got pretty close a couple times when 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:14.520 I was a kid. I remember jumping over a fence once, 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.840 but I think that was more of a professional hazard 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.600 than like a lifestyle choice. So here's the deal, Right, 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.440 there are many species in the USA which have names 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.320 similar to species on other continents that they are not 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:32.400 the same European blackbirds and American blackbirds. Right, Robins would 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:36.200 be another example, there is a different sheep's headfish. Almost 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:39.040 everywhere I have gone underwater, everyone has a sheep's head. 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.000 The coolest sheep's head for people wondering is California sheep's 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:45.080 head because it undergoes a sex change, making it a 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.400 pretty cool fish. Also, it gets really cool after it transitions. 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.240 It gets like these black and red stripes. It's like 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.480 one of my favorite fish. If you want to be 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.360 censurious about buffalo names, I would suggest picking one of 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.360 the many indigenous words that have been used to refer 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.640 to this animal for far, far longer than or bison. Also, 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.120 buffalo is one of the cooler words in English language. 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.520 Buffalo, Buffalo, buffalo, buffalo. 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.720 Yes, exactly. Yes. It is the longest single word sentence 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.880 because it's a down and a verb and a proper noun, right. 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.120 Right, So it's it's buffalo, the city, buffalo, the animal buffalo, 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.800 the verb meaning like what like to bully or something 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:20.160 to like. 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.000 Yeah. I don't know if you've been around them, but 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.360 they do do this. They sort of bother the push 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.920 yeah yeah, yeah, I'm making, of course at motion with 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:28.880 my neck and shoulders. That not one apart from Molly 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:32.000 can see that. Yeah, they're they're they're just kind of 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:37.000 aggressive in a sort of pokey and yeah, like it's 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:38.839 a good verb. I don't know, hang around what you 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.040 watch a buffalo, you'll get it. Yeah, it's buffalo, the 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:46.400 proper down buffalo, the down buffalo, the verb buffalo, the 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:51.600 proper nown buffalo, the verb no buffalo, the noun. 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:53.000 You're gonna have to diagram this one. 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:53.480 Yeah. 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:58.760 Yeah, bison from upstate New York are bullying other bison 0:09:58.840 --> 0:09:59.840 from upstate New York. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.000 Yes, that is the the breakdown of the buffalo sentence. 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.160 Fun trivia for everybody. Yeah, that's yeah, they will do 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:07.640 that at the end of the year. Will quitz you? 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.720 Why are we talking about buffalo today? I can't remember, 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.760 I can, let me tell you. And it's because the 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.400 Bureau of Land Management has canceled grazing rights in seven 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:22.320 allotments public land in Phillips County, Montana, privately owned bison. 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:24.560 And there's been a bunch of reporting on this, like 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.760 when this stuff happens, when stuff the Trump administration does 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:34.319 with public land the outdoors, they're they're like Democrat blue 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:39.720 wave fake news panic accounts really really go kind of 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.640 wild with it. They did with this one, right, I 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.400 think people running whatever, like you know, occupy Democrats and 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:50.280 suit Nation for change? Yeah whatever, Yeah, ocup by Democrats. 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.640 I forgot about pantsuit Nation. Wow, that's a real throwback. 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:58.040 Yeah, I never forget about the pantasuit Nation. They live 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.840 forever in my mind. What I think, like the people 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.160 of that tendency have not realized, is that these are 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.920 not per se wild buffalo. It's not like these buffalo 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:10.680 have individually, like or as a population, survived the genocide, 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.480 been holding out in this land of Phillips County for 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.280 more than a century. Right. That doesn't mean that we 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.080 should be like callous about this. We shouldn't, But I 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.120 just want to explain a more. I guess there are 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:26.040 still thousands of buffalo across the West on federal and 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.319 private land. Some of them have been raising on public 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.040 land with permits for more than four decades. Having them 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.360 on the landscape is a good thing, right, We need 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:37.920 the genetic diversity even if they're privately owned. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.440 Right. So it's not just like I don't know knowing 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:42.080 very little about this. I think a lot of the 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:45.040 discourse around these like permits for grazing on public land 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.360 it's like, well, why should these farmers get to use 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.680 our public land for their property for their cattle. Yeah, 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:53.199 And I don't know enough about that to care about 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:56.800 that at all. But in terms of what buffalo do 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.559 to the grassland, like just walking around on it and 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:05.199 eating it is part of the maintenance of that grassland. Yes, yeah, 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.959 Like the eradication of the buffalo in the Midwest caused 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.160 ecological havoc because we need them walking around and shitting 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:12.400 on it. 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.720 Yeah. Yeah, Specifically what we need is them coming in, 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:21.280 eating everything, trampling around, shitting everywhere, and then leaving, right, 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.120 because that is what like so many indigenous cultures had 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.800 these like these like traditions that the buffalo go away 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:28.559 in and we do a tradition and they come back. Right. 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.200 This happens for a lot of migroratory animals. It's not 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:34.920 just buffalo, right, because it gave shape to time in 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.640 people's lives. That's how they impacted the landscape, right. They 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:43.839 didn't stay in one place, They moved through spaces. So like, 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:48.559 if we want to restore this short grass prairie ecosystem, 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.400 which is as it turns out, why people are putting 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.200 buffalo on this particular land. Then we need a lot 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.200 of space to do it, and we need the buffalo 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:01.720 to be able to move around. Right, So people who 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:06.600 own these particular buffalo are an NGO called American Prairie. 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.360 You head of American Prairie used to be American Prairie Reserve. 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.320 No American Prairie Foundation. Okay, great? 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:13.920 Are they the villains or the heroes? 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.760 Neither? I mean the Trump administration is the villains. Doug 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.400 Bergham specifically, I guess is always God. 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:22.760 I forgot about Doug burgher Yeah. 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:28.360 Yeah, Fortunately Doug is now Interior Secretary, thanks to ARII 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:32.200 for signing a letter endorsing him. Also, fuck you. American 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.040 prairie is interesting. I guess, like It's not what I 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.400 would want, but I don't think it's evil. 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:40.160 Sounds like most NGOs. 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.720 Yeah, it sounds like most of the world as it exists. 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:49.360 Not Yeah, then how I would do it. American prairie 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.280 is a is a big engine. They've been trying for 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.800 about a quarter of a century to buy up private 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:58.200 land adjacent to public land around the Charles M. Russell 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:02.000 National Wildlife Refuge and the Upper Missouri River Breaks National Monument. 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.200 So the goal is to create like by by like 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:10.959 bridging these two pieces of public land to create a 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.520 massive reserve where like one of the things with with 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.120 bison specifically, right, they need a lot of space and 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.360 very few bison can cross like political boundaries. 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:22.400 They don't have passports. 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.760 They don't. Yeah, this is one of their issues. They're undocumented, 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:29.360 you could say. But think about the Yellowstone. People get 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.160 really mad about the Yellowstone bison leaving the park. This 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.120 is a big deal. This has been a big deal 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.400 for it. Yeah yeah, yeah, people like what. 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.400 Like they're Disney cast members, Like they're not allowed to 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:39.160 leave in costo. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.680 Yeah, exactly, they have to return. 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:42.760 Take that off. 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.840 Yeah, take the body off and just wear their head. 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:48.440 They can't be walking in the parking lot. 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:50.800 Yeah, you can't see Mickey Mouse at vonds Like that 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.280 would really ruin the magic. Yeah, people get mad at them, 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:54.520 right for a number of reasons. 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.040 The bubble don't know about the park that this is. 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:00.920 A thing, right and Buffalo. So as it turns out, 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.400 they love to disrespect a fence, which I respect. I 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:05.080 like that about them. 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.560 If I had shoulders like that, I would disrespect a fence. 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:12.000 Yeah, they so like cattle fencing is generally not sufficient 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:16.400 for buffalo fencing, but buffalo fencing can be built. It 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.680 does exist when people are building it. It's better if 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.840 they are conscious of other worldlife, right, like another of 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.360 the megafauna in the megafauna that has existed here for 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.000 for millenia, but it's now in much much much lower 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.360 numbers are like prong corn antelope. 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:32.240 We have those here. 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.120 Yes, I guess I don't really. I've never really been 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.720 out west, so you are Molly's out there? 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.320 If you would like us to make a podcast where 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:46.600 I take Molly camping, yeah, we just look at animals. 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.480 That would be my ideal job, a podcast where I 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.040 just talk to someone about an animal every week, Like 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.920 we go camping, we see an animal, we talk about it. 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.400 I didn't know ferret's lived outside, Like, think of all 0:15:58.400 --> 0:15:59.040 you could show me? 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:03.080 Yeah amazing, Yeah, god, we could have so much fun 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.960 if we start with the ferrets. Yeah, but prong horn 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:07.480 are amazing. You've not seen a prong horn. 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.400 They lived in Africa? And what am I thinking of? 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:11.160 Like an ibex? 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.240 Yeah, I mean I bex does live in Africa. I 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.280 think some of them live on Okay, we're gonna. 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.200 Oh man, everyone's finding out I. 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:20.920 Don't know anything podcast version. 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:25.120 I'm googling prong horn antelope. Yeah, you see them, and 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:26.560 these they're just out there. 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.360 Yeah, they're just like they live on the landscape. They 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:35.720 actually were massively numerous, like before the various extinction events. 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.960 So it's like a like a reindeer that lives in 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.520 Colorado a reindeer. 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.040 Reindeer are only reindeer in North America when they're in 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:49.000 captivity Cariboo, when they when they are wild Picture of Cariboo. 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.680 We don't really have a lot of like wild animals 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:52.120 out here. 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.480 Really see that. This is yeah, because the East Coast 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:56.600 is much more urbanized. 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.280 Right, Like every now and again a baby bear will 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.680 wander into town and it's like big micks. 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.600 Okay, Yeah, I like it when a bear there's another 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:06.919 animal I have massive respect for. I love how they 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.480 don't give a shit. I respect any animal that eats 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.639 in the trash. Yeah. The prong horns actually massive, Like 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.439 I think antello cap pridie is the genus. And then 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:17.880 there are different species. There were tons like we had 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.200 we at one point had tiny like weien a dog 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:21.680 sized antelope. 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:22.760 Oh, like a like a dick dick. 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:24.360 Yeah, yeah, like a dig dig But. 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:25.040 That's a cool guy. 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.520 But fast. Oh so, one of the things about prong 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.360 horns is they can jump, like I've seen them jump. 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:32.720 Yeah, it looks like a jumping guy. 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:34.800 Well, they don't like to jump. A fence is a thing. 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:37.919 Oh so then now you have like a problem. The 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:39.879 buffalo are stuck, but so is the antelope. 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:44.520 Yeah, because that speed was always their like defense mechanism 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.240 right there, they're super that. I think cheetahs are the 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.080 only land animal that's faster and. 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:49.520 They don't live in the same environment. 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.199 No, yeah, I knew that different continents yet. Yeah, there 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:53.640 is not a North American cheetah. 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.160 I mean at this point, you could think there might 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:56.359 have been a one, tell me there is. 0:17:58.040 --> 0:17:59.760 I think there might have been at one point, like 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.320 a like a prehistoric shooter at ten. They headlick ground, 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.639 slow some things. But yeah, when you're building the buffalo fencing, 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.840 you have to allow the prong horns to go under 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.399 if you're trying to build an ecological fence. 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:13.520 Oh, I guess, because they could like bend over in 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:14.800 a way the buffalo. 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.760 Can't exactly, there's just more bubble. 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:17.399 It's too big. 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:19.200 Yeah, there's a lot of chunk to a buffalo and 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.720 the way it couldn't get under there. Right. So the 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.200 other reason people don't like buffalo is because of brucellosis. 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.159 You know brucellosis. 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.399 Is is it a buffalo disease? 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.199 Well, it's a disease that buffalo can have. Maybe you 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:36.359 know from the Warren Zevon song don't Okay, this is funny. 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.320 I'm talking to Molly about really American shit to neither 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:40.679 there's a British person. 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:43.720 I don't know any of what you're saying. 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.679 Okay. Warren's Evon a very good, famous musician, guy sadly dead, but. 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.439 He has a song about buffalo disease. 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.360 He has a song which in part it talks about brucellosis. 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.280 It says, the cattle will have brucellosis. What a great 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:58.520 journey we're going on. 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.400 That's the service I provide, does the podcast, idiot? Because 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.800 I know nothing you but you have. 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.080 You have a very deep, very deep well of knowledge. 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.080 It just doesn't extend to Warren's Evon. 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.920 No listener left behind, Like there's no one sitting here 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.920 listening wishing that something had been explained more because I'm 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.960