WEBVTT - Can Showing Gratitude Help You Live Longer? 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:04.520 I guess what will what's that man? So I was 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:06.960 looking at letters of note this week and there was 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.559 this thank you note I found that I was stunned by. 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:14.440 It's from Clyde Barrow. Clyde, Oh is that is that 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:16.919 Clyde of Bonnie and Clyde. That's right? And he wrote 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:18.880 a thank you note to Henry Ford. So here's what 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.800 it reads. While I still have got breadth in my lungs, 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:23.919 I will tell you what a dandy car you make. 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.160 I have drove forwards exclusively when I could get away 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:30.200 with one, for sustained speed and freedom from trouble. The 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.080 Ford has got every other car skinned. And even if 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.320 my business had been strictly legal, it don't hurt anything 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:38.519 to tell you what a fine car you got in 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:43.400 the V eight yours truly Clyde Champion Barrow. No is 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.640 this is this real? So there is some question about that. 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.320 But it was sent from Tulsa when Clyde Barrow was 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:51.960 tooling through the area, and according to Stokes, it was 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:54.760 very much his style of humor. But I was learning 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.440 about gratitude, and it turns out that counting your blessings 0:00:57.520 --> 0:00:59.800 and writing thank you notes like this one actually help 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:02.560 you sleep better at night, And according to the Journal 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.440 of Psychosomatic Research, you should count blessings not cheap because 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.319 you actually have more positive thoughts before you sleep, which 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.520 soothes the nervous system and helps people sleep better and longer. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.520 So maybe an outlaw like Clyde actually had a really 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.760 good reason for thanking Henry Ford. But learning about this 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:20.759 story made us wonder what are some of the other 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.080 scientific benefits of gratitude. Do human brains start with a 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.160 negative bias? And how much can being thankful and really 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.800 help our lives. So that's what we're digging into. Let's 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:53.800 dive in. Hey, their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.240 I'm Will Pearson and is always I'm joined by my 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.240 friend man guess how Ticketer and sitting behind the soundproof 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.840 glass bell thing out the theme song to Golden Girls. 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:04.760 I mean this guy, he's been playing this what do 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:08.760 you Say? Mango for like three hours over Oh he 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:10.960 loves that thank you for being a friend line. It 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.200 just puts the biggest smile on his face and I 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.680 love to see that. That's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. Yeah, 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:18.600 who knew he was such a fan. Well, I know 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:20.800 he loves the eighties, but yeah, you're right. I didn't 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:22.200 know he was such a big fan of this one. 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.399 But anyway, turn it down, Tristan, it's time to get 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.840 focused here. And I know we wanted to talk about gratitude, 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.240 and I thought there'd be no better person to discuss 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.680 this than with our good friend and author A. J. Jacobs. Now, 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.839 if for some reason you don't know A. J's work, 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.880 he's done all sorts of amazing feeds, from reading the 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.000 entire encyclopedia for his book That Know It All, to 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.360 following every rule in the Bible for the year of 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:46.920 living Biblically. And now he's got a new book all 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:51.040 about living a more thoughtful life called Thanks a Thousand. A. J. Jacobs, 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.040 welcome back to the program. Well, thank you, of course, 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.040 thank you. I have to say that, but I also 0:02:56.120 --> 0:03:00.000 mean it. Well, J. Tell us a little bit about 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.079 this book. You chose to thank every person who helped 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.200 bring a cup of coffee to your lips. But why 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.160 don't you give you this idea? And why do you 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.160 choose coffee over I don't know, cheese or white wine 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.560 or something else. M hmm. That's good. I could do 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.840 sequels on those. I like both of those. Back when 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.320 I was writing The Year of Living Biblically, the book 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.320 you just referenced, and that one was about where I 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.880 tried to follow the Bible as literally as possible, uh 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:30.200 ten commandments. I grew a huge beard. I stoned people adulterers. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.600 I stoned adulterers, but using small pebbles so I didn't 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:38.160 get arrested. The Bible says that you should say prayers 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.000 of thanksgiving, so I would do that, and uh, I 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:46.160 actually found it quite meaningful. But when the project was over, UH, 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.720 I wanted to continue in some way, but it felt 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.520 a little odd because I'm agnostic, so thanking God seemed 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.880 a little strange. So instead I tweaked it and decided, 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.160 before a meal with my wife and kids, I would 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.000 thank some of the people who helped, you know, the 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.480 farmer who grew the tomatoes and the woman at the 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.800 grocery who sold me the tomatoes. And my my kids 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.280 tolerated it for a while and then my son said, 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:16.560 you know, Dad, uh, those people can't hear you. If 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:20.440 you really believe this, you should thank them in person. 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.719 And I was like, that is a good idea. That 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:27.000 is actually a book idea. So thank you for helping 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:32.520 my job. Um and uh, I decided to do it 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:36.599 and it was it was a wild experience. I went 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.360 all over the world and made me realize that it's 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.720 all interconnected. Every little thing we do in life has 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.160 hundreds thousands of people involved that we take for granted. 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.360 I decided costs or first of all, coffee. You know, 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.120 I do love it. I have it every morning, and 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.240 it's just such a huge part of modern life. You know, 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:58.279 there's two billion cups of coffee consumed every day around 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.440 the world. And uh, a'm floys a hundred twenty five 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:05.720 million people. So I I thought, all right, let's do 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:09.560 the coffee. Wow, that is unbelievable. Hundred and twenty five 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:14.320 he said. Five million people employed by this industry somehow, right, 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:18.480 And that's not counting, as I say, sort of, the 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:22.120 the people who are adjacent, the people who you know, 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:27.880 make the steel for the coffee roasters so that they work. Uh. So, 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.160 you know, if you include that, you can get up 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:33.440 to I'm sure however you define it, you can get 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.360 it up to you know, a billion or two billion. Well, 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.000 with with that in mind, how do you even start 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.159 when you embark on a project like this, it definitely 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.719 feels overwhelming. So how did you decide which thousand people 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.200 to thank? I mean, and should you have thanked Beyonce 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:51.160 in the process. Yeah, you could thank her because you 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.800 could make the argument the chemist who designed the plastic 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:58.880 lining for my coffee cup listen to Beyonce while studying 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.359 for her example. But I just followed what fascinated me. 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.760 I wanted to focus on for five or six stories 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:10.160 that I thought were really surprising and touching. I started 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.640 with the barista at my local New York coffee shop, 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:18.159 who was lovely and who told me, you're encountering people 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:22.599 in a very dangerous situation pre caffeination. And she said 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.120 the worst part is people just treat her like a 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.680 vending machine. They don't look up from their phones. They 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.960 just thrust their credit card in her direction. So I made, 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:37.640 uh the pledge that I would, you know, actually make 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.039 eye contact with people that I'm and I know I 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:45.599 deserve a Nobel prize for that. Uh but uh, but 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.560 it's you know, it's a small gesture, but it's so 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:54.000 it has such outsized impact to to actually look at 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.360 someone in the eyes when you're dealing with them instead 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.400 of at your phone. I really love that, you know what. 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.279 One of the things, as he mentioned a little earlier, 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.599 was about how important the coffee lids are for for 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:06.440 the cups, and I was curious if you could expand 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:08.600 on that a little bit more. Oh yes, so the 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.280 lids I did not know. You know, I could have 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:15.200 written a book on lids. Probably would not have sold many, 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:19.920 but it was fascinating to see every little thing has 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.560 so much behind it. And I talked to the designer 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.280 of the lid for my coffee cups and he was 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.840 so passionate about it, and he was very innovative. He 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.720 was sort of like an Elon Musk of coffee lids, 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.040 hopefully a little more emotionally stable. And he thinks the 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.880 problem is the lids will block the aroma, which is 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.640 a huge part of the coffee experience. So he made 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.280 a bigger hole in the middle. Um he made this. Uh. 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:52.440 The shape is like this inverted uh hexagon, like you know, 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:57.320 like the buckminster Fuller type uh shape and uh so 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.880 you can really get your nose in and get max 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.600 of him a roma. And it is just hilarious how 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:09.000 much thought goes into uh this, this little piece of plastic, 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.480 and it made me realize there are there are hundreds 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:16.160 of these these mini masterpieces. So I actually loved the 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:18.880 little sides of people who should have been thanked. And 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:20.760 one of the people you bring up in your book 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.480 is Jonas Salk, who we all know figured out the 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.320 vaccine for polio, but for most of us who've heard 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.400 of him, he's treated as kind of a loan genius. Like, 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:34.840 why do you think more people weren't recognized for that discovery? Right? Well, 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.120 that is one of the big themes of my book 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:41.360 is that it takes hundreds of people for every advance, 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.840 and psychologists call it the responsibility bias, that we just 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.520 like to focus on the one person and say, you know, 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.640 here's the loan genius. And Jonas Salk is a perfect 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:57.360 example of that. And he invented the polio vaccine or 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.720 a polio vaccine, and he was like the superhero. He 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.480 was along on the cover of Time magazine and he 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.240 gave a speech saying how great he was basically for 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.960 conventing the vaccine, but he neglected to thank all the 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.600 people in his lab, and there were tons of people 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:17.720 in his lab. There are tons of people who made 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.800 scientific advances, like on growing polio, so you could actually 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:26.839 do the experiments on the polio uh and and they 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:31.679 were very upset with which I think is understandable. So 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:36.920 we as humans have this bias to feature the one person, 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.160 and I totally as an author, I play into that. 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.920 You know, this book says it's by A. J. Jacobs, 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:48.640 which is ridiculous because a truthful cover would say by 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.319 you know, the words by A. J. Jacobs. Here's the design. 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.680 You know, it would have like two hundred fifty people 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:58.400 on the cover. And I actually proposed that to my publisher, 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:00.920 and I thought that might be an interesting sort of 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.360 marketing angle. But I do have a list in the 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.320 back of a thousand people who helped with the coffee 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.880 and my book. Speaking of being grateful and especially in 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.680 this sense, what are some of the scientific benefits of 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:14.880 being grateful? And you know, like does it have an 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.280 impact on our health or happiness? There are studies that 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.560 show you you know, it'll lift depression, it will help 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:26.199 you sleep, improve your diet. Uh. I like this one 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.400 study that indicated that gratitude causes you to be more 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.320 generous to strangers. If you're feeling grateful, you're more likely 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:38.400 to help others. There's studies on how it boosts athletic performance. 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:43.559 I don't know if that's true. I love that you 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.280 thanked a thousand people and now you're gonna, like be 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:50.920 drafted for the NBA or okay, exactly, I should try 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.640 out now that I'm so grateful. Many people we have 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.760 the negative bias, which was very helpful when we were 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:01.840 cave people trying to uh get away from lions. But 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.600 but going through the world with a negative bias and 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.520 only focusing on those three or four things that go wrong, 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.760 it's not great for our mood. So this really has 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.040 helped me to focus on the hundreds of things that 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.120 go right every day as opposed to the three or 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.800 four that go wrong, and just making a conscious effort. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:25.720 Like when I was at the airport, uh the other day, 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.960 I I'm always annoyed because my gate is always the 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.439 one that's a mile and a half walk. It drives 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.320 me crazy. But I realized that's not true. That's just 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.800 what I remember because I remember the annoying ones. And 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.480 so every time the other day I was at a gate, 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.440 like you go through security and it's right there, and 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:46.240 I say, you know what, I'm gonna make a note 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:50.760 of that. I'm gonna remember pay attention, and next time 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.640 I try to complain to myself, I'm gonna say, that's wrong, 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.040 You're you're being irrational. I I know, I've read these 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:02.679 studies before that if you've fake smiling, it'll actually eventually 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.280 make you happier. And I was curious, is that possible 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.320 with gratitude, to like, can you fake gratitude and and 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.559 end up being more grateful in the process? Right, Yes, 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.679 the answer is yeah, and there are studies and from 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:18.120 an anecdotal point of view, totally because I you know, 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.079 I would wake up in my default mood of grumpiness 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:26.280 and I would during this project, I would force myself 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.800 every day to spend a couple of hours either writing 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:34.360 thank you notes or uh calling people cold calling or 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.680 visiting people uh to thank them for their role in 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.800 my coffee. And it had an effect on me, and 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.320 it had the the ideal as if it has a 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.200 good effect on that. You know, some people I would 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.120 call and they'd be like, what's going on? Is this 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.280 a pyramid scheme? What are you trying to do? But 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.640 I would call the woman who does the pest control 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.800 for the coffee, the warehouse where the coffee beans are 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.079 word and I'd say, I know this sounds strange, but 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.800 I want to thank you for helping keep the insects 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.880 out of my coffee. And she would say, well, that 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:13.920 does sound a little strange, but that that's lovely and 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.600 that helped make my day and you know, it made 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.920 me feel better, you know, A j There's this little 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.199 aside in the book that I really liked, and it's 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:25.600 about how a friend of yours has this trick for 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.600 counting her blessings and this is before she goes to sleep, 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.480 and she uses the alphabet to do this. Can you 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.400 talk a little bit about that. Yeah, that was a 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.400 love and that has worked for me, this idea of 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.680 when you're going to sleep, instead of counting sheep, do 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.720 this little trick, which is go through the alphabet and 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.000 come up with one thing for every letter that you 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:54.240 are thankful for. So you know, I could be anything 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.800 related to your life. You know, A is for the 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:02.440 apple pancakes and my my husband makes on Saturday mornings, 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.520 or what have you. It gets you enough outside of 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:09.319 yourself for me that you fall asleep as opposed to 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:13.640 stressing about all of the things you have to do 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.560 the next day. That's really wonderful. Well, we're gonna be 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:33.360 back with A. J. Jacobs right after this break. Welcome 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.400 back to Part Time Genius, where we're talking to author A. J. Jacobs. Now, 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:38.240 A J. I want you to talk to us a 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.280 little bit about nostalgia. I know you used to have 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.920 a calm at mental flass that talked about how things 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.520 used to be and falling into this trap of the 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.280 good old days? But what was coffee like in the 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.360 good old days? And should we be grateful for how 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.080 it's evolved? Oh? Yeah, I mean I love talking about that. 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.240 The good old days were not good at all. They 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:03.040 were They were horrible day where disease ridden, smell a racist, homophobic, sexist, 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.400 the whole thing. And yeah, coffee, you are very lucky 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.440 that you were not drinking coffee in the nineteenth century. 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:11.400 You did not know what you were getting. There was 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.240 no FBA. So you know, the list of things that 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:20.440 adulterated coffee in the past is quite impressive. You know, sawdust, 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:27.600 dog biscuits, lead arsenic, something called monkey nuts, which I 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.600 don't actually think is the private parts of animals. It 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.800 was a sort of plant from South America. But I 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:37.120 am very grateful for coffee for saving the United States, 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.040 at least that's my theory. The because in the Civil War, 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:46.400 the North had real coffee, caffeinated coffee, but the South 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.200 had no real coffee. The naval blockade blocked it, so 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.760 they had to make bake coffee out of chicory and 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:57.680 like roasted corn and asparagus seeds and all sorts of 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.560 ridiculous stuff. But you know, they were not caffeinated. So 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.960 North was caffinated. And I think it could have been 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:12.560 the deciding factor. Will never know, but I like to think. So. Um. Now, 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.440 you you did talk about a friend who happens to 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.200 be a professor that reminded you that you do have 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:19.720 to be honest, even in a book about gratitude about 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:24.040 coffees good and bad qualities. And so with that in mind, 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:27.720 along the way, you decided to thank a major petroleum company. 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.240 And so I'm I'm curious one, you know, why did 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.440 you do that and to how did it make you 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:36.480 feel when you decided to do that? Right, it made 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.400 me realize the coffee could not have gotten to me 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:45.440 without oil. And you know, it powers the ships and 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.400 the trucks that bring it to me. So I figured 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.360 I had to thank Exxon because they were that's what 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:55.680 the trucks used. But I also think that Exxon is 0:16:55.800 --> 0:17:00.560 probably doing some horrible things to our planet. So I 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.080 wrote what I think might be the most passive aggressive 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.040 thank you note in the history of thank you notes 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.280 to the CEO of Exxon, where I said, you know, 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.200 I appreciate your role in getting me my coffee. I 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:18.960 love coffee. I hope it's around in fifty undred years 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:25.520 and that are planet doesn't explode from overuse of fossil fuels. 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:34.080 And I'm pretty sure that had a huge impact. We're 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.400 just we're just waiting. I'm sure that some of those 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.360 policy changes are coming pretty soon because of you exactly. 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:42.560 So I wanted to hear about your experiences at the 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.200 coffee warehouse because I saw a line in the book 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.720 about gay moths and I was curious to hear a 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.359 little bit more about that. Oh yeah, so that was 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.480 I did check up on this, and and it appears 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.199 to be true. But they have, you know, they have 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.960 a pest problem at the warehouse because they have the 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.199 amount of coffee there. It was, if I believe it 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:11.560 was five football fields, Big phil stacked with coffee fifteen 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:15.919 feet high. You know, it could make a billion cups 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.320 of coffee so that you know, of course insects enjoy 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:25.119 their coffee. So but they had found some novel strategy 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:29.280 for getting rid of the moths and it had to 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:34.399 do with releasing a far genome that made the male 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:39.359 moths not attracted to females so that they wouldn't, uh, 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.280 they wouldn't mate and have baby moths. And I looked 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.280 into it and it seemed to have some scientific package, 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:52.000 so uh, yeah, I don't know it was. You know, 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.879 I'm all for uh, moths identifying in any way they 0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:01.080 want and their fluidity and moths is fine by me. Um, 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.160 and I guess it's better than killing them. So there 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.719 you go. Now, we've we've got a bunch of stories 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.080 on coffee over the years, both at Mental Floss and 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.879 now Here a part time genius. And I've read about 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.359 coffee cherries before, but I didn't realize that you can 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.280 actually eat them. So I'm curious, what does a coffee 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:21.359 cherry taste like? Yeah, coffees grow on trees and uh 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:25.080 and the fruit looks like a cherry or a grape tomato. 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.879 It's red and inside is the coffee bean. And what's weird. 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.800 It's a very paradoxical fruit because you've got If you 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:37.040 taste the fruit, it's quite sweet, but the but the 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.520 bean is bitter. And there's the legend of how coffee 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:44.639 was discovered. I guess people didn't need it, but the 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:49.600 legend is that called the the Ethiopian goatherd, and Millennia 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:53.639 passed saw his goats eating the the cherries and like 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:58.600 flipping out and just dancing and bouncing around, and he's like, huh, 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:03.000 that looks fun, and so he uh started to eat him. 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.439 You know, I did think collect heard in the book, 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:12.280 but ever existed. That's a great point. I didn't and 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:17.520 that is an oversight. Thank you. In the follow up edition, 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.919 I will so. One of the facts that struck me 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.320 was that if you actually paid minimum wage to everyone 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.679 involved in the process, you're write that a cup of 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.440 coffee would cost Is that right? Well, there was one 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:34.040 calculation from one team. I can't swear that that's true, 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:37.760 but yeah it was. It's weird because you pay three 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:41.679 dollars for this little cup of brown liquid. You know, 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.360 one part of me is like, this is ridiculous, This 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:50.480 is yeah crazy. Uh, but once you look into the 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.399 supply chain, there are so many hundreds of people, and 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.200 it has to travel so far, and if you paid 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.199 minimum wage to the people who were working in the 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:05.359 developing countries, then the coffee should actually be twenty five dollars. 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:10.840 Some people are afraid that beings super grateful makes you complacent, 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:14.320 And there was a Barbara Aaron Reich, the writer. She 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.600 wrote a New York Times op ed that said, you 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.960 know gratitude is She said it was basically a right 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:25.080 wing conspiracy to keep people from making real reforms, like 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:30.040 Walmart workers would be so grateful for their for minimum 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.800 wage or whatever they can paid that they wouldn't object. 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:38.840 But luckily, the research says the exact opposite. It actually 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.879 says the more grateful you are, the more likely you 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.879 are to advocate for change. I'm curious, what was it 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:46.920 like to thank the people who plucked and produced the 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:49.800 coffee cherries in Colombia? Like, how did they respond when 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:52.600 you thank them? I think they were a bit confused 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:56.880 as to my project. But in the end, I think 0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:59.480 I got through and I tried to make it as 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:01.840 vivid as possible, which is what they say the best 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.920 ways of thanking. You know, I said, you, you know, 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.879 every morning I drink the coffee that you that you 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:12.520 guys make possible, and and I couldn't do my job 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:14.800 or take care of my kids without your coffee, so 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.400 thank you. And and they did come around, and they 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:21.840 actually said that they couldn't do their job without a 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:25.159 hundred other people. And they talked about, uh, you know, 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:29.480 the pickup truck that they drive is made from parts 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:33.199 all over the world, and the machine that takes the 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.560 skin off of the coffee cherry that's made in Brazil. 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:39.000 They didn't Jonas Salka and just take all the credit 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:44.639 for all the coffee exactly that it's all us. Uh No, 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.800 they were very nice. Stay right there, Listeners will be 0:22:47.800 --> 0:23:04.160 back with A. J. Jacobs after the break. Welcome back 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:06.320 to Part Time Genius. We're here with A. J. Jacobs 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:09.160 talking about his new book, Thanks a Thousand. I love 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:11.600 seeing the list some of the funnier entries in there. 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:14.160 I know it was a little surprised to see Joe's 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:17.399 parents from Joe's Coffee thanked in here. And I'm curious, like, 0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:20.840 who were some of the funnier, maybe more surprising people 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:23.280 that you didn't exactly expect to thank as you were 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:27.640 on your way to a thousand thank yous. Uh yeah, 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:31.479 there were some very you know, I used my credit 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:34.400 card and I didn't know how much went into just 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:37.679 making the credit card. The people who have to make 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:40.800 the magnetic strip and the people who assigned the numbers 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:44.880 to the credit cards. There's a there's a whole institute 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:51.159 that assigns numbers two various credit cards. Um, and you 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:55.280 know that they don't do it themselves. Uh. I will 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:58.199 say this one was crazy. If you go on the 0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:03.320 Apple website, you can find a list of their suppliers, 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:06.000 and it's I could have done the whole thing just 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:09.639