1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Bodybags. Scott Morgan has been on over ten thousand death scenes, 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: and now he takes apart in a way that only 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: he can the homicides that we are all investigating. Body Bags. 4 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I don't 5 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: know about y'all, but I gotta tell you I couldn't 6 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: even fathom driving up to my property where my family 7 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: had probably celebrated holidays and enjoyed one another's company for 8 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: years and years, getting out of my vehicle and ten 9 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: o'clock at night, it's dark everywhere, and looking off in 10 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: the distance and seeing two forms laying on ground. Sound 11 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: it's the bodies of my wife and my son, apparently 12 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: shot down. They're in the darkness. On the evening of 13 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: June seventh, twenty twenty one, that's when this nightmare started 14 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: in the low country of South Carolina. I'm Joseph Scott 15 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: Morgan and this his body backs. Joining me today is 16 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie, 17 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: what can you tell us about what I'm calling the 18 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: Murdoch executions that took place on that faithful night, Joe, 19 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: As you mentioned, Alexander Alec Murdoch found their bodies around 20 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: ten PM near the kennels of their seventeen hundred acre property. 21 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: During the nine one one call, Alex Murdoch was crying 22 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: and you could hear him telling the operators that he 23 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: found his wife and his son shot. Details of this 24 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: incident have been redacted as those reports have been released, 25 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: but one of the main pieces of information that we 26 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: do know is that the murdas, Paul and Maggie, were 27 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: shot with two different firearms. Paul twenty two, was shot 28 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: multiple times with a shotgun. His mother, fifty two year 29 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: old Maggie, was killed with a semi automatic rifle. And 30 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: this has started an investigation that has taken so many 31 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: twists and turns, including finding relations to three other deaths 32 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: and a possible suicide attempt by the father, Alex Murdoch. 33 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: At the time of his death, Paul Murdall was facing 34 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: a three felony count of boating under the influence charges 35 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: concerning the accidental death of nineteen year old Mallory Beach. 36 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: She was ejected from the boat when Paul, who was 37 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: allegedly drunk driving at that time. In February of twenty 38 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: nineteen ran into a piling and Mallory was ejected from 39 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: the boat. There's also the death of Gloria Satterfield, the 40 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: housekeeper who died from a slip and fall. There's also 41 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: Steven Smith. He was a nineteen year old who was 42 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: found in the middle of the roadway in July of 43 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. There is information linking that death to this 44 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: case as well. So far, no one has been criminally 45 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: charged in connection with Maggie and Paul Murdock's death. The 46 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: only charges that have been leveled so far were the 47 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: charges that Paul Murdoch was facing in relationship to the 48 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: Mallory Beach death. So, Joe, there is a saying in 49 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: broadcasting there are more questions that answers, and in this 50 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: case it is so true. There are so many more 51 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: questions than answers. So let's see what we can kind 52 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: of figure out here. Let's start with finding the bodies. 53 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch called nine one one. The bodies were found 54 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: near the kennels on the property. Where do we start. 55 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: I heard about this case, I was you know, it's 56 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: not too often that you encounter case as an investigator 57 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: where you have actually a double what would seem at 58 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: least to be a double execution style homicide, and that's 59 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: kind of what it's been portrayed us. And I have 60 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: to say, the bodies, as we all know, in you know, 61 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: in most death investigations, are the central factor in a case. 62 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: So just imagine, if you will, a wagon wheel that 63 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: has a central hub. The bodies are actually that central hub, 64 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: and everything else Just get this word picture in your mind. 65 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: Everything else just kind of radiates out from there, any 66 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: kind of evidence gathering, that sort of thing. So the bodies, 67 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: for our purposes are the most essential piece of information, 68 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: or they at least can give us the most essential 69 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: information in this case. So the one thing that you 70 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,679 Speaker 1: want to consider as you're beginning to look at these bodies, 71 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: and remember, Alex Murdo actually observed these bodies first, which 72 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: is critical. You know, he is he's the father, he's 73 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: the husband, he's the one that actually found on the bodies, 74 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: as opposed to anyone else that wasn't hired help. It 75 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: was an extended family, it was him that had eyes 76 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: on first. So you know, as an investigator, one of 77 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: the things I'm going to want to know and want 78 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: to observe here is a physical placement of the bodies 79 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: relative to one another, you know, because it's so odd 80 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: to have a double, like I said, double execution, So 81 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: you've got essentially a mother and her son. Were when 82 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: they observed these bodies, Were they lined side by side 83 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: just kind of neatly there? You know, that would if 84 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: you saw that, that would give you an indication that 85 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: more than likely they had been placed very close to 86 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: one another, as opposed to, say, for instance, a random 87 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: type of event where you have an individual that is 88 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: essentially shot and then the other one is chased down 89 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: and shot in maybe close proximity, but in kind of 90 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: a disordered fashion. But where these bodies when initially found, 91 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: were they lying side by side? Say the shoulders are 92 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: parallel to one another, side by side, so that you know, 93 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: their feet were perfectly aligned, their heads were perfectly aligned. Right, 94 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: There is one piece of information that I can fill 95 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: in Apporting to the police reports, their bodies were several 96 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: feet apart from each other. So what is that going 97 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: to tell you? I think my question would be has 98 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: been reported by the news. What does several feet mean? 99 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: Are we talking three feet? Are we talking six feet? 100 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: Or are we talking ten feet away? Maybe? If we 101 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: look at it from that perspective, maybe if it was 102 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: several feet like I don't know, maybe up to twenty 103 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: feet away, maybe you had an individual that had taken 104 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: one of the victims and shot them, and the other 105 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: person was essentially held in one location and they were 106 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: shot separately. Maybe they were forced to watch. Can you 107 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: imagine the horror in that? Or were they essentially taken apart? 108 00:06:58,120 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: Because you know, one of the things that I'm thinking 109 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: about in this particular case, since we've got and we'll 110 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: get to this in just a minute, but since we've 111 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: got two weapons here, that implies to me that we 112 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: probably have two shooters, because why would one individual need 113 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: two separate weapons. And we're not talking about pistols here, Okay, 114 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: we're talking about long arms. So it gives me an 115 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: idea that you have two individuals holding these two separate 116 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: weapons at a distance. Well, maybe the bodies were separated, 117 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, as they've put several feet away. Maybe they're 118 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: separated because neither one of the shooters wanted to be shot. 119 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: Maybe they didn't want to transfer evidence to one another. 120 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: Maybe they did it not in sync, but they did 121 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: it essentially with a pause, perhaps to send a message 122 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: or maybe too exact information from these two individuals. Maybe 123 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: an individual had information that they wanted for another and 124 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: they essentially liquidated one before they liquidated the other. And 125 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: I think all of these things are probably going through 126 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: the minds of the police officers out there. Could one person, 127 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, we talk about having two different weapons, but 128 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: could one person have managed both weapons considering one of 129 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: them was an assault type rifle? Yeah, you know, that's 130 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: very interesting since you know, you bring up this term 131 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: assault rifle, and when you think about it, I'd like 132 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: the listeners to think about a tactical weapon, kind of 133 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: a military grade rifle, you know, kind of like what 134 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: our troops carry. An M four carbing in civilian parlance 135 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: as known as an AR fifteen fires what's called a 136 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: five point five six millimeter round. Yeah. You could shoulder 137 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: sling that weapon and you can put it, you know 138 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: kind of, or you can chest sling it too and 139 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: carry the shotgun and be free handed and doing it. 140 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: But why why would you do that? Why would you 141 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: need the utility of two long arms? Because long arms 142 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: are hard to manage. Okay, there you have to swing 143 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: the muzzle around and all these sorts of things. And 144 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: if you're attempting to essentially kill two individuals, you want 145 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: to have kind of an economy in movement. You want 146 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: to be able to herd them in one particular direction. 147 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: And that's another thing that comes in here that brings 148 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: us back to the bodies. With the type of weapons 149 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: that we're used, and we know that each body was 150 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: shot multiple times, what kind of damage does that do 151 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: to a body? One of the things that we would 152 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: be looking for when with both of these weapons platforms, 153 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: both a shotgun and a tactical weapon like this, the 154 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: damage or the trauma that both of these weapons would 155 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: inflict on either one of these subjects is going to 156 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: be over the top. It's going to be massive, if 157 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: you will, and a lot of that is going to 158 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 1: be dependent upon where they are shot anatomically, where these arrange. Say, 159 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: for since, if you have an individual that is shot 160 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: in the head with a shotgun, and not only are 161 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: you having to deal with the actual projectile that is 162 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: coming out of the end of that weapon, And think 163 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: about this, if it was buckshot, you're talking about multiple 164 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: essentially thirty two caliber slugs or pellets that are going 165 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: down rage. So it'd be like being shot in multiple 166 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: times by thirty two caliber pistol only at the same time. 167 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: So just factor that into your thought relative to the 168 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: amount of damage. And not only that, coming out of 169 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: the muzzle of this weapon, you've got a tremendous amount 170 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: of gas. So let's just say, for instance, someone took 171 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: that weapon and placed it at the back of an 172 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: individual's head. Not only are the projectiles being driven into 173 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: the body, into the head, you're also talking about hot 174 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: air and what does hot air do well? It fans 175 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: and that's why you get these grotesque injuries sometimes because 176 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: we all know that hot air expands, it's superheated, and 177 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: as it expands, it just does great destruction to the body. 178 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: And you know, from what we understand, at least relative 179 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: to Paul, he was probably shot in multiple times with 180 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: a shot gun, So it'd be very and from an 181 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: investigative standpoint, when you're examining the body, you want to 182 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 1: try to understand, well, what attitude was his body in 183 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: when he was fired upon. Was he twisted to the left, 184 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: was he facing the shooter the muzzle of the weapon, 185 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: if you will, Had he turned his back in order 186 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: to run away, To try to put as much distance 187 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: between himself and the shooter, and that's all critical when 188 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: we're trying to assess the scene and the body in 189 00:11:51,480 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: its relationship to everything else that surrounds this environment. We're 190 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: talking about the execution style murders of both Maggie and 191 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: Paul Murdoch in the Low Country of South Carolina. Specifically, 192 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: we've been discussing what kind of damage can be expected 193 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: being inflicted by the weapons that were used in this case, 194 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: Jo talking about whether or not one person could have 195 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: handled both weapons and been able to do this. Let's 196 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: talk about the distance. How are we going to know 197 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: how far away? I mean is obviously one of these 198 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: weapons was a rifle, so that's a long distance weapon. 199 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: The other was a shotgun, which is not necessarily a 200 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 1: long distance weapon. Why those weapon choices for one and two? 201 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: How are we going to know how far away these 202 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: people were when these actions were taken. It's always been 203 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: my opinion that you see people in crimes, for instance, 204 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: that where a firearm is involved, they essentially use long arms, 205 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: which you can classify both of these weapons, a shotgun 206 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: and a rifle as long arms. That means they're shoulder 207 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: fired weapons. They use these as a means to terrorize 208 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: an individual, to control them with power, it's much more intimidating. 209 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: I don't think any of us would like to have 210 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: a pistol point os, but you can imagine to be 211 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: staring down the barrel of a shotgun as opposed to 212 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 1: some tiny little pistol that somebody has in their hand. Automatically, 213 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: you have their attention, you have everybody's nitche In a 214 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: matter of fact, you're walking down street one of these things, 215 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: people are going to notice you. It's not like you 216 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: got a pistol in your pocket. So when you look 217 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: at this and you begin to think, well, why in 218 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: the world would they use these heavy weapons, essentially from 219 00:13:54,200 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: a civilian standpoint, on both a young man and his mother, 220 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: Why would these be brought to bear? Well, you know, 221 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: part of me, I think that they were the tools 222 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: that were at hand for whoever the killer is in 223 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: this particular case. It's what they had access to, it's 224 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: what they thought that they would need to use, as 225 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: opposed to just merely using a handgun. And certainly, you've 226 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: got two individuals, and I just think about this a 227 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: little bit. You've got two individuals that obviously have a 228 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: will of their own. How are you going to control them. 229 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: We're gonna have to control them through intimidation as you're 230 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: maybe moving them out to this location in order to 231 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: end their life. Nobody's going to go willingly, but you 232 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: stick the muzzle of that weapon in their face or 233 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: in their back, and you begin to kind of pride 234 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: them along towards what's going to wind up being their end. 235 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: You have to have you have to have that force 236 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: behind it. And I'm not talking about the pulling of 237 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: the trigger. I'm just talking about the intimidation factor. Now, 238 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: when it gets to both of these weapons, how are 239 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: we going to tell how far away the individuals were 240 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: with a shotgun? Now, let's say, for instance, they're using 241 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: ammunition like a buckshot for instance, And again, this is 242 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: the buckshot inside these the shotgun shells. It's about I 243 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: don't know, roughly thirty two calibers and that's a pistol round, 244 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: but it's a it's a pellet, and there's multiple of 245 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: these in here, in each one of the shells. And 246 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: so as you're firing this weapon, you're sending these pellets 247 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: out of the end of the barrel. But that's not 248 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: the only thing coming out of the end of the barrel. 249 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: You've got unburned powder. You've got actually smoke that's coming 250 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: out of the end of the barrel. You've got fire. 251 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: And then you've got two components which are unique to 252 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: shotgun shells. You've got what's called wadding, which is kind 253 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: of a fiber disc that's down in the shell and 254 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: that travels out of the out of the end of 255 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,479 Speaker 1: the barrel. I've actually found those embedded in bodies at autopsies. 256 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: And then you have something else. It's called a shotgun 257 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: shell cup, and it's a cup that's made out of plastic. 258 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: It's got four little petals, just like a flower, if 259 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: you can imagine that, and the shed the projectiles themselfs 260 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: are contained within this little cup. And when you fire 261 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: that shotgun shell and that those pellets come out of 262 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: the end of the barrel, that wadding comes out, which 263 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: is a little you know, almost it looks like a 264 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: felt disc. But you've got this cup that comes out 265 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: and it deploys in the air. These little wings, these 266 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: little petals spread and there's four of them, and you know, 267 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: if you're close enough to the body, you get a presentation. 268 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: It's a contusion that comes up on the body. It's 269 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: called cup slap, and it's very unique. It looks like 270 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: a huge hand has come down and driven fingers into 271 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: the body. Now, if you're outside of a range of 272 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: i don't know, over about seven to eight feet with 273 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: one of these shotgun shells, that cup is just going 274 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: to fly away. But if you're closer than that, if 275 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: you're closer than that, there's a high probability that that 276 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: cup is going to strike the body. So what do 277 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: we know is forensic scientists, Well, we know if we 278 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: have cup slap that kind of overlies the holes that 279 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: the projectiles created. We know that we're talking about a 280 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: very specific distance or range of fire when it comes 281 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: to placing the shooter in relation to the decedent. Is 282 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,959 Speaker 1: that something you've got to worry about with the rifle 283 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: as well? You know, the rifle is significantly different than 284 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: than than the shotgun. First off, you can tell just 285 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: in the name Jackie. You know, the name rifle, it 286 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: actually implies that you're talking about a rifled barrel. And 287 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: just so y'all understand, that means that the barrel actually 288 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: has grooves in the barrel. It twists in one direction 289 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: either to the left or the right, and it's very specific. 290 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: It actually leaves marks on the on the sides of 291 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: the bullet, and that's one of the ways that we 292 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: identify the bullet to match it up to a weapon. 293 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: But when it comes to a range of fire, rifle, 294 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: the rifle is highly accurate. It's very very powerful. So 295 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: compared to the shygun, the rifle has a higher muscle velocity, 296 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: which essentially means that the rate at which the projectile 297 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: travels out of the end of that barrel is what 298 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: we refer to as supersonic. That means it's above the 299 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: speed of sound at that point in time. So it 300 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: gives you kind of an idea. You know, we have 301 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: that large crack that you hear when a rifle is fired. Now, 302 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: one thing that does come out of the end of 303 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: the barrel of a rifle other than that projectile that 304 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: just kind of slams into the body, is also going 305 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: to be unburned powder. Now this is significant because depended 306 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: upon the spread of that powder and how widely it 307 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: has spread, gives you an idea as to the range 308 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,479 Speaker 1: of fire. So just think about this. If you're looking 309 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: at a rifle or a handgun and handguns are rifled 310 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: as well. After about thirty six inches, the powder is 311 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: just going to kind of drift away because it's not 312 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: very ara dynamic. Because that bullet is spinning and it's 313 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: staying right on target, it's going to drive right into 314 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: the target. So if we're within about thirty six inches 315 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: of that body, guess what's going to happen. Hot gas 316 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 1: is going to come out of the end of that muzzle. 317 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: It's going to sear the wound. Potentially, we're also going 318 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: to get powder, unburned powder embedded into the surface surrounding 319 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: the wound. And one more thing, we're going to get 320 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: something that's referred to many times as bullet wipe, and 321 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: bullet wipe is the grease that actually comes you know, 322 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: when bullets are fitted in to a cartridge, they're actually 323 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: kind of greased up so that they will fit in 324 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: and then it's crimped. You'll actually get what's called bullet wipe, 325 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 1: where you'll see this kind of black material that's surrounding 326 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: the wound itself. And this gives us an idea as 327 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: to the range of fire with a rifle. Joe, just 328 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: in listening to your details about the positioning of the body, 329 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: the type of ammunition that could be used, the distance, 330 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: there are so many things there. You're looking at a 331 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: crime scene that's going to take a tremendous amount of 332 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: time to process. Oh my gosh, you know hours. You know, 333 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: it's one thing. And again, you know, I think folks 334 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: can understand this pretty easily. I know if I can 335 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: understand it, y'all can. The more bodies you have, the 336 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: more evidence you're going to have, and the more time 337 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: that's going to have to be expended when sled that's 338 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: the state Police in South Carolina showed up. They had 339 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: to bring full force out there relative to their forensics 340 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: people to work the scene. And the way way we 341 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: do this if we have multiple bodies that are seen. 342 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: I've worked a lot of homicides where I have a 343 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: mass shooting. Okay, you don't have one investigator that's essentially 344 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: working every individual person. Well why is that? Well, because 345 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: you're going to miss details, and trust me, in a 346 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: case like this, there are a ton of details. So 347 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: what will happen is that you will have a team 348 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: of investigators that essentially will work these bodies individually and 349 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: then they'll compile their reports. But you know, when you 350 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: begin to think about it, what do you have to 351 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: recover at the scene relative to this shooting. You've got 352 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: if these were semi automatic weapons that were being fired, 353 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: that means you've got ejected shell casings. That's the spent casings, 354 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: and you have to consider those as to where they 355 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: were ejected to was a person moving around a lot 356 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: when they're firing this weapon. So you've got spent brass 357 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: as it's called, all over the place, or spent shotgun 358 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: hulls or shells all over the place, and that gives 359 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: you an indication that not only were the victims may 360 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 1: be moving, but the shooter was moving, kind of migrating 361 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: around the body, if you will. So you have to 362 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: take all of that into account, and then you have 363 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: to compare where these two shootings took place and try 364 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: to get a measurement for the distance apart that all 365 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: of these shotgun shells are dispersed over and one of 366 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: the other reasons that it's so complicated. I'm still not 367 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: convinced that they were absolutely shot at this location. We're 368 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: talking about the brutal execution of a mother and her son. 369 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: We were just discussing the nature of a crime scene 370 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: and how layered this is when you not just have 371 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: one body, but you have two bodies, and not just 372 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: one weapon, but two weapons. Joe, you just brought up 373 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: a really good point about the location of the bodies 374 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,959 Speaker 1: and whether or not Paul and Maggie Myrtle were killed 375 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: at this location. We don't know that. So number one, 376 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: how will we know if they were killed at this 377 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: location or how will we know how the bodies got 378 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: to this location if they weren't killed on the property. 379 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: We cannot assume anything when it comes to a case 380 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: involving a double homicide. And you know, at this point, 381 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: we cannot even assume that both Maggie and Paul were 382 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: killed specifically at this location because you know, the information 383 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: has not been completely revealed at this time. I think 384 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: that one of the questions we have to ask is 385 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: where their bodies were found, where they were situated in 386 00:23:54,520 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: this particular case, is that actually where they died. Were 387 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: they shot in another location perhaps and then brought to 388 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,719 Speaker 1: the location where Alec eventually found them, you know, And 389 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 1: that that has puzzled me relative to this case, you know, 390 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: because there were a couple of vehicles out of the scene, 391 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: you know, as an investigator. One of the questions I 392 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: want to ask is, well, is there any indication that 393 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: maybe they have been transported to that location their their 394 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: deceased bodies were taken out there, or were the vehicles 395 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 1: used to convey them there, you know, at gunpoint, or 396 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: were they summoned there? Were they summoned there to meet 397 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: specifically at that location to meet someone who would have 398 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: access to that property. You know, essentially what it comes 399 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: down to is how did they arrive at their end, 400 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: if you will, And that's a big question. So when 401 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: you're you're thinking about this, you have to think, well, 402 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: if if they were not shot there then and shot 403 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: somewhere else on the property, did someone physically pick the 404 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: bodies up, place them there and lay them in these 405 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 1: positions where they drug Well, if they were drug to 406 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: those locations, guess where we're gonna have. We might have 407 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 1: bloody drag marks that lead back through the grass there. 408 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: Maybe they were shot against a building somewhere and there's 409 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,959 Speaker 1: there's actually blood staining on a wall somewhere. But you know, 410 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: when we think about where they picked up and carried 411 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: after they were injured, you know what that means. That 412 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: means that whoever carried them, because the scene would have 413 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: been a bloody mess. We would be dealing with something 414 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: that's called blood transfer, and essentially all that means is 415 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: that the blood from these bodies would have transferred onto 416 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: the individuals that were carrying that. That means that they 417 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: would have just been covered in blood. You know, specifically, 418 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: you think about a shotgun wound, they're grotesque. You're going 419 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: to have a tissue that's blown up heart. Individuals would 420 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: be stained, that would be touching the bodies, and you 421 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 1: would you would absolutely have to take your clothes off 422 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 1: and burn them to you know, get rid of any 423 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: kind of evidence that you might find on clothing, and 424 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: you would certainly have to bathe yourself very well afterwards. 425 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: And you go back to the vehicles, Well, if they 426 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: were transported in a vehicle after they had been shot, 427 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: there would be blood staining that was left within that vehicle, 428 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: and again that's transfer a blood. If they're shot in 429 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: a vehicle, you're going to have more of a dynamic 430 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: event in there where you have high, high velocity blood 431 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: staining that'll be on the interior of the car. So 432 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: we have a lot of unanswered questions. But you know, 433 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: the great thing about forensic science is that if you 434 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: have someone that's not necessarily telling you the truth, the 435 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: science is going the science is going to actually reveal 436 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: what the truth is because the numbers don't lie. Relative 437 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: to this in this case is actually going to come 438 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: down to that. It's going to come down to attempting 439 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: to assess the bodies. Okay, which has been done at 440 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: the autopsy, and it's going to be done in order 441 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: to assess all of the evidence that surrounds us bodies. 442 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: Sink back to what to what we were talking about. 443 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: The bodies are the hub. They are the hub of 444 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: the wagon wheel, and everything else radiates out from them. 445 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: And then eventually it's all going to be tied back 446 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: together because when they do in fact catch whoever it 447 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: was that perpetrated these crimes, and this is two crimes, 448 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: this is two separate homicides. You're talking about the ending 449 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: the brutal killing of these two individuals. Folks are going 450 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: to be charged and they're gonna be prosecuted. And it 451 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: is key that all of this information, all of the 452 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: forensic science that's involved in this case, be tied up 453 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: in a neat little package so that the people on 454 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: the jury can understand it because this is a highly 455 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: highly complex case. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this its 456 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: body backs