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Speaker 1: Climbing still always has some edge to it because fundamentally

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Speaker 1: you could die. I think that it changes your relationship

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Speaker 1: with fear because you experienced it a lot. Fear is

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Speaker 1: just feeling some sensations in your body. If you're used

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Speaker 1: to that stage of discomfort, you're kind of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's just another day.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I am so

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Speaker 2: thankful that you're tuning in for a very special episode.

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Speaker 2: Today's guest is someone that I've written about in my

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Speaker 2: book Think Like a Monk. It's someone that I've mentioned

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Speaker 2: in count Lead Daily Jay Meditations on the Calm Map.

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Speaker 2: It's someone's story that I've been fascinated with for quite

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Speaker 2: some time. I'm speaking about Alex Honold, one of the

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Speaker 2: greatest climbers in history, an athlete who's expanded our understanding

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Speaker 2: of courage, focus, and human potential. From his Oscar winning

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Speaker 2: free solo ascent to his upcoming live climb of Taipei

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Speaker 2: one oh one, Alex continues to push the boundaries of

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Speaker 2: what's possible. He's the founder of the Honold Foundation, using

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Speaker 2: his platform to bring solar energy to communities in need. Today,

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Speaker 2: we're diving into the mindset that makes it all possible.

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Speaker 2: Please welcome to on Purpose, Alex. Honold Alex. It's great

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Speaker 2: to finally meet you.

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Speaker 1: Oh thanks, Yeah, it's an honor. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was so happy to hear that you'd actually already read. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: just find the book where I mentioned you, which truly

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Speaker 2: your story your mindset has been fascinating to me for years.

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Speaker 2: That book came out in twenty twenty, and so I'm

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Speaker 2: so excited that I actually get to sit down with

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Speaker 2: the real human behind it today and get to actually

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Speaker 2: learn from the master as opposed to my interpretations and

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Speaker 2: my conceptions.

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Speaker 1: Of what you may be doing. I think your interpretations

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Speaker 1: are pretty good. That's very kind.

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Speaker 2: That is very kind of you.

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Speaker 1: That means the world.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to start with this, getting straight into it.

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Speaker 2: On January twenty third, you're climbing the tallest building in Taiwan.

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Speaker 1: Why Why because it's awesome? Because I get to basically

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Speaker 1: because yeah, it's good. It'll be so fun. I mean, yeah, basically,

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to get permission to go on building,

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Speaker 1: and if you get permission, you kind of have to

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Speaker 1: say yes. You know, it's like so many other sorts

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Speaker 1: of life experiences where you're kind of like, well, it's

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Speaker 1: a hard thing to do, but you get permission, you

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Speaker 1: kind of just have to go do it.

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Speaker 2: And you've been wanting to climb this building for quite

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Speaker 2: some time.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah. I actually scouted it for a different TV

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Speaker 1: thing that fell apart in twenty thirteen, I think, So

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Speaker 1: for the last you know, twelve years, I've known that

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Speaker 1: it was possible. I knew that it's I mean, the

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Speaker 1: building is honestly uniquely suited for climbing. It's kind of perfect.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing. It's it's a really beautiful building. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that many people know what it looks like,

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Speaker 1: but it's I looked at it before. Yeah, it's singular,

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Speaker 1: it's striking. I mean you saw how it sticks out

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Speaker 1: of the city scape. I mean it's incredible. So it's

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Speaker 1: it's just so cool. But so twelve years ago or so,

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Speaker 1: I scouted it and realized that I could do it,

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Speaker 1: and it was like, this is amazing, but never got

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Speaker 1: the opportunity. And so now I get the opportunity.

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Speaker 2: I love that. And is this building that fascinating to

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Speaker 2: you because of the architecture, because of this city scape?

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Speaker 2: Is that how you choose what you feel inspired to climb.

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Speaker 1: I mean a little bit. I think in general with

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Speaker 1: rock for me, you know, there are always a bunch

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Speaker 1: of the different things that go into choosing a cool objective.

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Speaker 1: But part of it is, you know, the aesthetic beauty

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Speaker 1: of it, like is it striking? Does it? Does it

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Speaker 1: catch the eye? As it beautiful? I mean, part of

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Speaker 1: it is in rock climbing is sort of like the

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Speaker 1: mythology of it, you know, like the climbing history, like

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Speaker 1: is it important to climbers? And so I think with

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Speaker 1: buildings it's kind of the same way, like is it striking,

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Speaker 1: is beautiful? Is it possible? Which in this case it's

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Speaker 1: kind of in the perfect sweet spot where it's possible

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Speaker 1: and it's challenging, but it's not insanely challenging. Because if

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Speaker 1: you're going to do something for a TV program, it

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Speaker 1: has to be well, you just have to be able

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Speaker 1: to do it on command, you know, and so so

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Speaker 1: you don't want it to be you know, cutting edge cutting,

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Speaker 1: like the hardest thing ever done. You want it to

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Speaker 1: be kind of in a sweet spot where like this

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Speaker 1: is challenging and it's going to you know, keep me focused,

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Speaker 1: but it's not insanely difficult. You start climbing really young, right,

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Speaker 1: well tennish, which actually nowadays elite climbers all start even younger.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I was lucky enough to start as a kid.

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Speaker 2: And was it always the plan for it to be

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Speaker 2: a professional pursuit.

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Speaker 1: No, no, just no. My parents are both professors, and

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Speaker 1: you know, they were supportive and like, go do the

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Speaker 1: thing that you like to do. But I mean, especially

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Speaker 1: when I was young, climbing was way more fringe, way

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Speaker 1: more niche, and so nobody was a professional climber, you know.

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Speaker 1: But thankfully as I grew up, that kind of climbing

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Speaker 1: has also grown up quite a bit. Climbings in the Olympics.

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Speaker 1: Now it's just way bigger of a sport, so it's

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Speaker 1: a little less unusual, and there's just more money in

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Speaker 1: the now so you can actually make a living.

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Speaker 2: And you know, was there a moment that you felt

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Speaker 2: that you You're like, oh, I'm actually good at this,

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Speaker 2: like this is real? Like when did that happen for me?

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Speaker 1: Not? Really, it's no. I mean for years I thought

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Speaker 1: that I would wind up being a mountain guide or something,

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Speaker 1: or you know, I just wanted to I figured out

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Speaker 1: get some kind of job within the climbing world. And

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Speaker 1: then you know, I picked up some sponsors and started

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Speaker 1: getting my gear for free. And I was living in

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Speaker 1: a van by myself, so it's pretty pretty low overhead.

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Speaker 1: You're kind of just living and and then eventually you're

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Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, I'm making a living doing this

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Speaker 1: thing I love to do. And then eventually you're making

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Speaker 1: a little more and and then I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I mean it took years until I really thought of

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Speaker 1: myself as a professional climber. You know, at first, it

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Speaker 1: was just kind of like, I'm basically a homeless person

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Speaker 1: living in a van who happens to get climbing shoes

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Speaker 1: for free. And you're like, oh, that's cool. But that's

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Speaker 1: different than feeling like you're actually gonna make a living

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Speaker 1: as a rock climber.

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Speaker 2: And so you were doing this even when it there

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Speaker 2: was there was no money. Was this was what you're

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Speaker 2: what you were chasing. You were working another job and

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Speaker 2: doing this on the side.

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Speaker 1: I mean I did work, you know, like I worked

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Speaker 1: in my climbing gym when I was a kid, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I worked a little bit on the side,

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Speaker 1: but no, basically I've just been trying to climb my

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Speaker 1: whole life.

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Speaker 2: Well, what was the first climb that you did that

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Speaker 2: was challenging and risky or some sort of like real.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think as I started to dabble outdoors

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Speaker 1: because I grew up in suburban California, like in Sacramento,

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Speaker 1: and so I would just ride my bicycle to the

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Speaker 1: climbing gym. And so for the first you know, eight

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Speaker 1: years of my climbing life is just going climbing in

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Speaker 1: the gym. So, I mean it's super fun and you

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Speaker 1: can learn all the skills that way, but it's not

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Speaker 1: particularly extreme or anything. It's not like, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not what people think of as an adventure. And then once

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Speaker 1: I learned how to drive and then started borrowing the

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Speaker 1: family car and started going outside more, then I started

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Speaker 1: having some of the adventures that I think characterize you know,

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Speaker 1: what people think of as a is extreme rock climbing

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Speaker 1: and all that.

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Speaker 2: What's the experience for you? Like, is it the thrill?

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Speaker 2: Is it the fascination? What part of it gives you

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Speaker 2: life and brings you a life?

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Speaker 1: Like, what part of it gives you joy? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think at the core is just the movement of climbing,

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Speaker 1: Like I literally just came here from the climbing gym

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Speaker 1: because I had a little time. Yeah yeah, I didn't

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Speaker 1: watch my hands, but but yeah, it's like there's a

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Speaker 1: there's a climbing gym relative in nearby, and I was like, oh, perfect,

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Speaker 1: So just a quick session basically just rapid fired problems

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Speaker 1: around the gym. Bolting gyms are just short and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's safe. And I just did an hour as fast

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Speaker 1: as I could and now I'm tired and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what a nice day. So it's really just the movement

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Speaker 1: of climbing, I think, is the the at the core

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Speaker 1: that's the joy of it. But then beyond that there's

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Speaker 1: the challenge, you know, like overcoming fears, uh you know

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Speaker 1: as a professional climber. I mean the travel involved in it,

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Speaker 1: like seeing the world, being outdoors in nature, having beautile experiences,

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Speaker 1: all your friends. I mean, there are all these other

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Speaker 1: things that are amazing about climbing. But I think the

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Speaker 1: thing that always brings me back to is that just

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Speaker 1: like climbing, you know, it's like running or swimming or

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Speaker 1: other sort of like elemental movement patterns. It just feels

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Speaker 1: good to do the thing.

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Speaker 2: Ye tell me about the actual skill of climbing for

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Speaker 2: someone who isn't a climber.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm climbed at all.

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Speaker 2: I have. I don't think I've climbed at all. I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to think about it in my life. I don't

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Speaker 2: think I've ever climbed, and so I would love to understand,

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Speaker 2: like talk to me about the actual skill of climbing,

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Speaker 2: is if you were training me.

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Speaker 1: Even as a kid, you never climbed on things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course I love climbing on things. I wanted

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Speaker 2: to do park l my kids. My parents would never

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Speaker 2: let me. Park all was like my fascination. I saw

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Speaker 2: kids doing park cour was like, that's so cool. I

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Speaker 2: love climbing trees. I love climbing walls.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love gates. I've climbed like that, but I

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Speaker 1: mean I've never well, I think that's the same thing basically.

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Speaker 1: And that's actually I think one of the interesting things,

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Speaker 1: you know, with this building thing coming up, people are like,

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Speaker 1: woyw do you climb a building. I'm kind of like,

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Speaker 1: was a kid, I climbed all the buildings an my home.

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Speaker 1: I climbed all the trees. I fell out of trees

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Speaker 1: quite a lot.

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Speaker 2: Me too.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I'm kind of like phisicad my wrist

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Speaker 1: doing that. Yeah there, Yeah, yeah. I broke broke mound

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Speaker 1: three times as a kid falling off play structures and

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Speaker 1: once in the climbing gym. But but yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: basically most kids, it feels like love that kind of play,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's pretty normal to play on things

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Speaker 1: in that way. And so it's interesting that now as

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Speaker 1: adult people like, why would you do that? And you're

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Speaker 1: kind of like, because it's awesome, because it's so fun.

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Speaker 1: It's like the same reason the kids like to do that,

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Speaker 1: because it's it's it's cool. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean I still love a ropes course, like

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Speaker 2: you know, if I have, but I get the playbit.

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Speaker 2: But what are the skills that you've had to build

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Speaker 2: to actually be able to do this professionally? Because there's

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Speaker 2: a difference between I love the play and then you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to climb the eleventh tallest.

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Speaker 1: Building in the world.

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Speaker 2: Like, what's what's the training, what's the skill level? Talk

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Speaker 2: to me about the mastery from zero to where you

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Speaker 2: are today. What are the steps that it's taken.

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Speaker 1: To I mean, yeah, I'm like, in some ways, you

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Speaker 1: just go and do the thing all the time and

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Speaker 1: you get better at it, you know. On the other hand,

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Speaker 1: it's like I've been Yeah, I've been climbing probably five

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Speaker 1: days a week for thirty years. Oh, You're bound to

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Speaker 1: slowly get better at something if you put that much

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Speaker 1: effort into it. But yeah, I mean, I guess the

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Speaker 1: I mean it comes down to movement, like how well

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Speaker 1: do you move your body, like transferring your weight over

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Speaker 1: your feet. Like in theory, your legs should be driving

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Speaker 1: you for most things. I mean, people think of climbing

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Speaker 1: as plunging with your arms, but really you should think

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Speaker 1: of it as climbing a steep, steep staircase, So you

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Speaker 1: should be driving with your legs, and you should be

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Speaker 1: using your hands almost like you went on a handrail,

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Speaker 1: like for balance. You know. Obviously if a climb is

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Speaker 1: more than vertical, then you have to hang on with

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Speaker 1: your arms more. But still you should be driving as

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Speaker 1: much as you can through your feet. So it comes

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Speaker 1: down to technique and you know, body position, where you

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Speaker 1: how you use your hips, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: But you know, in some ways I think that over

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Speaker 1: complicates though. It's like, really you just go and you

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Speaker 1: and you try, you know, you just go climbing.

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Speaker 2: I love, I love how casual you make it. Someone

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking, like in my head, I'm thinking, well, you

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Speaker 2: never skip leg day because you need to work on that. Like,

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Speaker 2: are there certain muscle groups that you just need to

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Speaker 2: be proficient at and prolific at so that you can

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Speaker 2: be a better climb.

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Speaker 1: I mean, climbing is very full body, so it's like

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Speaker 1: basically use everything. I mean, if you could just like

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Speaker 1: turn the dials on something, if you could turn your

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Speaker 1: finger strength to infinity, then you'd be a great climber.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's like basically if you can hold on

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Speaker 1: things very very well, then basically you can you can climb.

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Speaker 2: Well, how do you build your finger strength?

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Speaker 1: Well? Sadly, I'm I'm fingersing. It is probably my biggest

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Speaker 1: weakness as a climber. It's probably the one thing that

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Speaker 1: there's probably the thing that I'm worse at and overall,

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Speaker 1: especially you converder my peers Like other professional climbers, I've

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Speaker 1: always been sort of better with sort of full body,

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Speaker 1: Like I think I have good technique and so I

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Speaker 1: can transfer a lot of weight to my feet and

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Speaker 1: sort of keep them off my fingers because my fingers

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Speaker 1: aren't that strong. But in general, you build finger strength

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Speaker 1: the same way you build any other strength. You basically

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Speaker 1: load your fingers, and finger strength is actually your forearm strength.

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Speaker 1: It's like your you know, because you control your hand

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Speaker 1: like through your forearm grip strength, and so you just

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Speaker 1: build up by you know, hanging from small edges or

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Speaker 1: hanging with more weight on you just you know, you

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Speaker 1: build up.

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Speaker 2: How many hours do you spend training per week?

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Speaker 1: I can probably spend you know, three to five hours

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Speaker 1: in a session climbing, and I can do that maybe

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Speaker 1: five days a week or so, is it? But that

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Speaker 1: doesn't totally do you know some of the days that

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Speaker 1: I go, you know, quote unquote climbing, I'm going soloing

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Speaker 1: in the mountains or something, and so of that time,

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Speaker 1: a chunk of it is hiking into the thing, some

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Speaker 1: of it's climbing the thing. Some of it's like eat

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Speaker 1: lunch on top and trying to figure out where the

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Speaker 1: next how to get off the mountain or whatever, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like there, sometimes you can have

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Speaker 1: a six or eight hour day in the mountains and

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Speaker 1: you're kind of like strolling, but it's all very low intensity.

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Speaker 1: You're kind of like wandering through the mountains and figuring

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Speaker 1: out what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: It's not like it's like it's not intense the whole

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Speaker 2: time is Yeah, it's not.

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Speaker 1: Like Michael Phelps training in the pool or something, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, you're like wandering around the mountains

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Speaker 1: like slightly confused, trying to figure out. And I mean

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Speaker 1: sometimes you walk into the mountains, it turns out it's

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Speaker 1: cold and raining, and then you walk back and you're

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Speaker 1: kind of like, well, I didn't actually climb anything. And

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Speaker 1: that's just the way it goes when you count like

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Speaker 1: hours of training. And actually, so in the past, I

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Speaker 1: used to have a training journal where I did keep

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Speaker 1: track of hours, and now I don't really keep track

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Speaker 1: of time because that's not really the best metric. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's more around effort and you know, like

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Speaker 1: what you've actually done. Yeah, it's some days you spend

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Speaker 1: a ton of time, but you don't do that much,

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Speaker 1: and then other days, in a couple of hours, you

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Speaker 1: can get completely destroyed because you're going super hard.

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Speaker 2: What's what's when your favorite place you've got lost?

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Speaker 1: That's a good question. I don't know. I mean I

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Speaker 1: live in Las Vegas and Red Rock Conservation are is

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Speaker 1: like this big world famous climbing destination, like just outside

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Speaker 1: of town, and I live near it, and I climb

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Speaker 1: in Red Rock all the time, and I still get

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Speaker 1: lost all the times, like really complicated sandstone canyons with

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Speaker 1: like folds of rock and you know, tricky. It's just yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's crazy because every season I'm like, where'd

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Speaker 1: the trail go? I'm like, oh, I live here and

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Speaker 1: I hike this all the time, and I'm like, how

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Speaker 1: much still lost? But you know, that's that's the joy

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Speaker 1: of being outdoors. Really.

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Speaker 2: When you talk about the mindset as well, you were

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Speaker 2: saying half of it is, you know, the beauty of

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Speaker 2: the landscape of the rock formation, and you said the

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Speaker 2: other half is just your fascination with overcoming fear and

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Speaker 2: the mindset piece. I imagine being lost while doing something

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Speaker 2: you love is quite a special feeling. It seems that

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Speaker 2: you've made friends with I.

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Speaker 1: Mean I've never really actually there only been a couple

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Speaker 1: of times where have been like a lot lost like it.

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Speaker 1: Once actually climbing a thing in South Africa, I thought

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Speaker 1: I was going to have to drop into now I forget,

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Speaker 1: what's the neighboring country to the north. We were right

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Speaker 1: on the border, like north of Johannesburg. I forget what

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Speaker 1: the next country north is, but basically I thought I

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Speaker 1: was gonna have to drop over the border, like into

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Speaker 1: another country basically go find a village, because we were

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Speaker 1: up on a mountain basically, and you could see villages

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Speaker 1: off in the distance. But I was like, couldn't find

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Speaker 1: my way back to where I was supposed to and

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Speaker 1: just kind of like I'm just going to go fully

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Speaker 1: you rogue here and just have to like borrow somebody's

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Speaker 1: phone and try to find a way to contact the

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Speaker 1: people that I'm supposed to be But ultimately I found

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Speaker 1: my way eventually showed up hours late and totally torn

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Speaker 1: to shreds from like crawling through the bushes all confused.

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Speaker 1: But so I've only had a few experiences like that

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Speaker 1: where I'm lost lost For the most part, you always

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Speaker 1: have a sense of where you're supposed to be going.

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Speaker 1: You're just not on the trail or you know, you

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Speaker 1: can't find the best way. Yeah, but that, I mean

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Speaker 1: that is kind of the joy of climbing. You just

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Speaker 1: have tons of experiences like that where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: doing some crazy thing.

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Speaker 2: I read that in twenty sixteen, euroscientists conducted a brain

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Speaker 2: scan and that you're a MiG dealer responded much less

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Speaker 2: to fear than the average person. Did you always feel

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Speaker 2: that way growing up? No?

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Speaker 1: But I well, so this is part of a long thing.

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Speaker 1: But I would suspect that you're a Migdala probably responds

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Speaker 1: less to fear than the average person, just in the

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Speaker 1: same way like yours of meditation will do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: It's like you're just not going to respond to stimulus

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Speaker 1: in the same way. And so for me, I see

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Speaker 1: that as basically I've been getting afraid. I've been consistently

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Speaker 1: experiencing fear all the time as a climber, you know,

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Speaker 1: for years. And so then the test that they did

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Speaker 1: for that particular brain skain, you know, you're an fMRI

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Speaker 1: And then you look at these black and white photos

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, obviously looking at photos while I'm

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Speaker 1: lying down inside of sealed too, it's just not scary.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you spend your whole life getting scared

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Speaker 1: all the time, that's not scary. And in the same

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Speaker 1: way that I'm sure if somebody scans your brain it's

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Speaker 1: going to be different. Than average because you spend a

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Speaker 1: ton of time working on it. Basically, you're kind of

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Speaker 1: like that seems totally reasonable. You know. It's like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it's a shame because there's a scene in

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Speaker 1: Free Solo. You know, they show a little clip from

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Speaker 1: that when and basically everyone watching the movie comes out

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Speaker 1: of like, well, there's something wrong with his brain, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, no. The takeaway is that if you practice

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Speaker 1: something your whole life, you get better at it. It's like,

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Speaker 1: that's that's the real lesson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that, I mean, now looking at it from your perspective,

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Speaker 2: that makes a lot of sense in that you're right

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Speaker 2: that when you're doing those tests it will rarely be

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Speaker 2: as scary as something you've done in reality.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's like I get tons of questions

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Speaker 1: on fear and like managing fear and all that, and

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Speaker 1: you know, my answers have obviously changed over time, and

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Speaker 1: I've like thought about fear time in my life, and now, honestly,

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Speaker 1: I'm always like, you know, it's been thirty years I've

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Speaker 1: been climbing all the time, and climbing is really scary,

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Speaker 1: Like you're always scared at least a little bit as

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Speaker 1: a climber, because there are always consequences in climbing. Even

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Speaker 1: if you're climbing with the rope and you're using protection,

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Speaker 1: you're still always a little bit on edge because you know,

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Speaker 1: you're like, what if the rope cut? Like what if

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Speaker 1: you know a didn't time, I not, like, there are

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Speaker 1: always these what ifs, and so you're always a little

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Speaker 1: bit afraid. And so I think that it changes your

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Speaker 1: relationship with fear because you're just scared all the time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, not like deep fear, but there's

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Speaker 1: always an edge to it, and so I think that

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Speaker 1: puts all the other fear in life sort of in perspective.

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Speaker 1: You know, it gets you good at managing fear because

401
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Speaker 1: you experience it a lot.

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Speaker 2: How do you moderate it or regulate it in that

403
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Speaker 2: moment when you've got to place the next step, you've

404
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,440
Speaker 2: got to reach for something else, you've got to keep moving.

405
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Speaker 2: Because I think that's you're spot on by the way.

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Speaker 2: I love the way you're talking about fear, because I

407
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Speaker 2: think you're absolutely right that if you're constantly in a

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Speaker 2: state of discomfort, but you have the right mindset, because

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Speaker 2: a lot of people in the state of discomfort but

410
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Speaker 2: then they overthink or they procrastinate what they get.

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Speaker 1: Still, I think it's like if it's their first time

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Speaker 1: in a state of discomfort, then it's pretty overwhelming. But

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Speaker 1: if you're used to that state of discomfort, you're kind

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Speaker 1: of like, oh, that's just another day, you know. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's the thing with climbing, is that a

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Speaker 1: lot of the time, you know you're a little bit scared,

417
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Speaker 1: but you just totally ignore it because the rational part

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Speaker 1: of your mind is like, this is fine, Like your

419
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 1: harness is like everything is safe, the rope is safe,

420
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Speaker 1: You're totally fine, and so you just ignore it. But

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Speaker 1: then occasionally you're like, oh, I'm scared because I'm in danger,

422
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Speaker 1: So that you're kind of like, oh, I should think

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Speaker 1: about this and sort of evaluate it, like is you know,

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Speaker 1: am I going to be okay? Is it should I

425
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,359
Speaker 1: should take different actions? Should I try to mitigate this

426
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 1: in some way? So, I mean, you know, it totally depends.

427
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Speaker 1: But that's the thing is the climate is you're constantly

428
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,360
Speaker 1: balancing those kinds of things like is this fear well

429
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Speaker 1: found it? Should I act upon it in some way?

430
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Speaker 1: Should I do something? Should I not?

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Speaker 2: You know, yeah, and so so your relationship with fear

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Speaker 2: seems just very neutral in the sense of you having

433
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,399
Speaker 2: a conversation with it. It's like every other Yeah.

434
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,359
Speaker 1: Well I sometimes. I mean, fear is a sensation in

435
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 1: your body, same as lots of other things, and so

436
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,000
Speaker 1: I've used this analogy before, but I'm kind of like,

437
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,400
Speaker 1: it's like hunger. You know. It's like when you experience hunger,

438
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 1: You're not like, oh my god, I'm hunger. I need

439
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,200
Speaker 1: a sandwich right now. You're just kind of like, okay,

440
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,439
Speaker 1: I should eat at some point. And I feel like,

441
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,320
Speaker 1: I think because people experience fear much less frequently, it

442
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,919
Speaker 1: feels more overwhelming. But you know, if you experience fear

443
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,439
Speaker 1: with the same regularity that you experience hunger, then you're

444
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 1: kind of like, okay, like I'll deal with that in

445
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 1: due time, like when it makes sense, I'll manage that.

446
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,000
Speaker 1: But fundamentally, feeling fear is just feeling some sensations in

447
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 1: your body or something like. It's not like, doesn't matter

448
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 1: more or less than any other thing that you feel

449
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,120
Speaker 1: in your body, really, unless it's telling you you're about

450
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 1: to die, Yeah, in which case you should pay attention. Yeah.

451
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Do you do you feel that that what you

452
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,920
Speaker 2: just said about the more frequently you were exposed to fear,

453
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 2: the less fear affects you. Does that translate from the

454
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 2: physical sensation to when you're having emotional relational challenges as well.

455
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:25,639
Speaker 1: Probably less so than my wife wishes, you know, you

456
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:26,920
Speaker 1: know what I mean, right, I think it does a

457
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 1: little bit, probably because you know, to some extent, managing

458
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,720
Speaker 1: fear is managing fear. Yeah, but it is a little

459
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,280
Speaker 1: bit of what you practice. Like, I think I'm really

460
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 1: good at dealing with like physical fear, like physical risk

461
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:38,879
Speaker 1: and things where I'm like, I feel like I'm in

462
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,120
Speaker 1: danger less So I mean public speaking I was horrified

463
00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,959
Speaker 1: of for a long time, but again with tons of practice,

464
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 1: it has gotten much more comfortable. It's fine. And then

465
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,400
Speaker 1: like relationship all stuff, I'm sort of like, oh, that's

466
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,120
Speaker 1: I mean, my wife would say, there's still long ways

467
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 1: to go. Yeah.

468
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,440
Speaker 2: Talk to me about the difference between like the fear

469
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 2: of what you do, which most of us would see

470
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,800
Speaker 2: as dad is scary, and then public speaking, which is

471
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 2: known as one of the scariest things, you know, I mean, like,

472
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:05,360
Speaker 2: talk to me.

473
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 1: About the difference. No, I think it's really similar. I mean,

474
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 1: I think most people are. I mean, I was definitely

475
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,399
Speaker 1: more afraid of public speaking than climbing. But obviously, you know,

476
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,000
Speaker 1: I love climbing. I spent a whole life doing it,

477
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,879
Speaker 1: but public speaking is horrifying. Though that said, now that

478
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of practice with it, I would

479
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,919
Speaker 1: say that it's not that scary, whereas climbing still always

480
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 1: has some edge to it because fundamentally you could die,

481
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,399
Speaker 1: you know. With public speaking, it like feels like you

482
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,679
Speaker 1: might die, but you're just you know, it's fine, Like

483
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,200
Speaker 1: you can always go out and like make a fool

484
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: yourself and it doesn't really matter.

485
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 2: Well, that's that's what I'm saying, right, Like, the reason

486
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 2: why we get scared of doing things that where there

487
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 2: isn't a cost is because we almost make it out

488
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:46,040
Speaker 2: like there is.

489
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 1: A high stake to it. Yeah, but I think that

490
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 1: with a little bit of practice, you realize that there

491
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 1: just isn't that high a stake. Like, you know, when

492
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 1: you haven't done it before, you're like what if they

493
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 1: laugh at you? And then you're like what if they do?

494
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 1: Like who cares? You know, it turns out it's totally fine,

495
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, you know. But with with some of the

496
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 1: physical fear of stuff. You're kind of like, well, I

497
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 1: mean it does matter if you fall through death or

498
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, so those you know that will always have

499
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: some edge to it.

500
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so how do you process that in the

501
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,800
Speaker 2: moment when those when that's what you think?

502
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it depends sometimes, you know, first, take some

503
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 1: new breaths, compose yourself sort of like try to deal.

504
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 1: I mean, the thing with climbing is that there's never

505
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: any time pressure to it, so you can just stand

506
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 1: there basically wow, you know, even if you're clinging to

507
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 1: the rock, like maintaining a static position is typically not

508
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 1: like that hard, so you can just hold on, take

509
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 1: some new breaths, take your time, get composed, and then

510
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 1: try to decide whether or not. You know, It's like

511
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 1: sometimes you get really scared for no particular reason, and

512
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 1: then other times you're kind of like, oh, it turns

513
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,199
Speaker 1: out that i'd you know, misjudge the rock quality and

514
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: this is much more dangerous than I thought it was,

515
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 1: and like maybe I should bail. And so, I mean

516
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: I've bailed off all kinds of things where you climb

517
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:54,679
Speaker 1: part way up something you're like this is not for me,

518
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:55,640
Speaker 1: and you just climb back down.

519
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 2: That's interesting to hear. So you you're okay with knowing

520
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 2: your edge and knowing a limit, there's not.

521
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 1: And the thing with free sooling is that you always

522
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 1: have to stay well within your limits. You know. It's

523
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,199
Speaker 1: like because like when you're coming with a rope, you're

524
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 1: always trying to push yourself like sort of beyond your

525
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 1: limits that you can learn and grow and everything. But

526
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: if you're free sooling, you stay well within your comfort

527
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 1: zone because obviously you just can't fall off. And that's

528
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 1: what this next clime is, right, Yeah, this next time

529
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 1: is free sooling. But it should be I mean, it's interesting.

530
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: It should be well within my physical comfort zone, like

531
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: you know, I should be able to physically comment. But

532
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: the sort of exciting thing for me is that I've

533
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 1: just never climbed a building like that before, and so

534
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: so I think even though I'm very confident in my

535
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: physical ability to do it, I'm still kind of like, well,

536
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm doing a new thing, and so that's always a

537
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:39,400
Speaker 1: little bit exciting.

538
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I love that. Well, I feel like what

539
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 2: I really appreciate with how we're talking about fear right

540
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 2: now and through your reflection on it, is that there's

541
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 2: a sense of recognizing that anytime I do something new,

542
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 2: I'll feel a sense of discomfort or fear, and that's

543
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 2: a good thing, yeah, because that means I'm I'm trying

544
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 2: something new well.

545
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: And that's the whole thing is like are you experiencing fear,

546
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: Are you experiencing nervousness or excitement or you know, because

547
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 1: a lot of those things are the same sensation in

548
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 1: your body. Really, you're like, oh, I'm like a little

549
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: nervous or I'm feeling like butterflies and I feel tingling

550
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: and I'm on edge and I feel heightened, and you're like,

551
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 1: am I afraid or am I excited? Like I don't know.

552
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to exactly pinpoint some of those

553
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: kinds of things, and so so I think it's you

554
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: just don't want to put too fine a point. I'm like,

555
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: I'm scared because you're like, oh, you're just sight yeah,

556
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, like I know that when I get to

557
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 1: the bottom of the building, Like actually, surprisingly, the first

558
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 1: move off the ground is one of the harder moves

559
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 1: on the climb, and you kind of have to like

560
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: jump up and catch this thing and like start climbing

561
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 1: and like basically taking the first step onto the buildings

562
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,199
Speaker 1: like one of the hardest. And I'm sure I'm going

563
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:41,959
Speaker 1: to be a little nervous and a little tight and

564
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: just kind of like, oh, this is you know, with

565
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 1: cameras and people in a whole spectacle. I'll be like,

566
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: that's crazy. Yeah, it's just going to be like, you know,

567
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: I'm nervous. But does that mean I'm scared. I'm like,

568
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll see. I don't think so, but I

569
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: think it'll be exciting for sure. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

570
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 2: No, I mean not that I've done anything that I

571
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 2: think is that hard by anything I've ever done for

572
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 2: the first time.

573
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's scary, even if I've done it for a long.

574
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 2: Time, it's still nerve wracking. Like I said, not comparing

575
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 2: anything at all, But yes, for me, if I was

576
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 2: going into a longer meditation than I've ever done before.

577
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 1: This new step, absolutely I'm still nervous. And again, what

578
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 1: is what is the longest meditation you've done? What's considered

579
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: like a long meditation.

580
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 2: So we would do a minimum of four to eight

581
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 2: hours a day in blocks or so in full chunks,

582
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 2: like you could do four together or eight together. Yeah,

583
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: sometimes Yeah, but the longest.

584
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: One eight hour.

585
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 2: The longest one I've ever done is probably just under

586
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 2: twenty four hours. Yeah, the longest.

587
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,959
Speaker 1: Wow, how deep did you go? It was one of

588
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: the talk about that.

589
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 2: It was one of the best most because what we

590
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 2: learned through length of meditation was not to show how

591
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: long you can meditate. It was the ability to have

592
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: to disconnect from the body because you have to go

593
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 2: beyond the body to be that present in the moment

594
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 2: because you'll start and I mean yours is much harder,

595
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: but like you start feeling an ache or a pain,

596
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 2: you start itching, you start mentally getting from one.

597
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: So you got totally you've got to go beyond the

598
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: body in the mind twenty four hours, a get hungry

599
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: if you go to the bath, Like.

600
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: No, you're fasting to make it easier. But but yeah.

601
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: But does that make it easier? I mean it makes

602
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: it easier to but you know, because just fasting for

603
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: twenty four hours is its own challenge.

604
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, we would do it often enough, so it wasn't.

605
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: It wasn't.

606
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: Again, it's what you just said about, but when you're

607
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 2: practicing it, it's it doesn't sound that crazy for me

608
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 2: to say out loud. Because I know other monks you've

609
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 2: done it for three days and seven days, and you know,

610
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: for for longer than far.

611
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: People meditate for seven days. Oh absolutely, for.

612
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: Really they're like they're like there's some people that I mean, yeah,

613
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 2: I'm like a complete beginner when it comes to you know,

614
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: the realm of real you know work that some of

615
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 2: these incredible people that I got to.

616
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: Meet have done. Seven days is a long time to sit.

617
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a long time to sit. Maybe not good.

618
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: It feels like more than you might need. Yeah, exactly.

619
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 2: Well, it's always like that interesting thing where I remember

620
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: when I was starting to do cold plunges in the beginning,

621
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: I'd always be like, what's the right amount of time

622
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: to be in a cold plunge?

623
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: And when I was zero, I was gonna ask you

624
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: you forever? No, No, I don't do that kind of

625
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: thing you do. But it's because I'm kind of like

626
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: I don't think it matters, Like I don't think it

627
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: makes me a better So, you know, if I was

628
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: convinced that this would like change my life, and then I'm like, yeah,

629
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: I'm sure you do that, you know, mind ever matter whatever.

630
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of things like that same

631
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: with meditation, where I'm like, if I thought this was

632
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: the path and like that would help me send, you know,

633
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: like climb harder, and I'm like, yeah, I would do that.

634
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: But if I don't think so, then I'm like, no,

635
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: I take a hot shower. I love that.

636
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: I love that, But no, It's what I was saying

637
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 2: was that when I first started to do it, it

638
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: was there's the ego number because it makes you feel better,

639
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: but then there's the number that's actually good for your health.

640
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: So I think most health experts would say three to

641
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 2: seven minutes in there is amazing, But then people be like,

642
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: I was in there for fifteen minutes, but it's almost

643
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: like it doesn't it's not that active to be seven

644
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: minutes because your body's regulated and now it's not a

645
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 2: challenge or a shock.

646
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: Anything, and after twenty you're dead. So exactly, it's not benefit.

647
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 2: It's not actually happened. So has there ever been anything

648
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: you like, I really want to climb that, but actually

649
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 2: it's too risky and I wouldn't even bother like you said,

650
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: you bail.

651
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: The dons, Okay, So actually so in the context of

652
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: the building, So when the idea of climb skyscraper for

653
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: a live thing came up you know whatever twelve years

654
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: ago or someone when we first scouted. The first thing

655
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: I scouted was the Birch Khalifa It which is the

656
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: tallest building in the world. You buy and it's possible

657
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: you can climb it. I mean I was able to

658
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: do the moves on it. But it's a it's cutting edge. Basically,

659
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 1: it's like very very hard and how high did you get?

660
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: I could climb the building, uh with a rope, you know,

661
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: I climb the outside, but it's it's just very hard.

662
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: And also it's hard in the wrong ways. It's like

663
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: very slippery and very very finicky, like you could imagine

664
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: is slipping off in an a moment. So basically I

665
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 1: was kind of like it was kind of like the

666
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: Alkapa Freesling or something. I was like, sure, if I

667
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: devoted myself to this, I like moved to do Bay

668
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: and just like liveing on this building. It's like, yeah,

669
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: it's possible, you know, like it can physically be done

670
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: with the proper commitment everything, but for a TV program,

671
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, this is crazy. Like I'd

672
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: actually started thinking about using like a like a d

673
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: day style parachute, you know, like old school military parachutes,

674
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: Like a modern parachute is like a wing, has a

675
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: direction to it. So it's actually not that helpful for

676
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: something like a building because you'd have to be able

677
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: to get a clean exit away from the building and

678
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: turn away from it and face the correct direction because

679
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: if you're if you deployed your parachute and you went

680
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: into the building, you just crumble and collapse and die.

681
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: So anyway, but so like a drop parachute, just like

682
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: an old school like what you imagine, like g I

683
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: Joe using that just goes straight down. When I was

684
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: playing on the Berge, I was kind of like, well,

685
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: maybe I'd do something like that because then if you know,

686
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: you did slip, at least you could just basically plummet

687
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: straight down the face of the building like it might

688
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: kind of be okay, you know you maybe you break

689
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: your ankle at the bottom, but you're not going to die.

690
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: And so you know, I started considering ideas like that.

691
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: I was like, this is all crazy, this is too

692
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: much like this is too extreme basically, and so I

693
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: mean that's an example of a climb where I'm like, yeah,

694
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: it's possible, like somebody could do it, but it's just

695
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: way outside what I think is reasonable. And then when

696
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: it went and scouted type out one to one, it's

697
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, it has all the same features

698
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: of a striking building that's like the biggest thing in

699
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: the whole landscape. It's amazing, But the style of climbing

700
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: is way more secure, like the things that you're grabbing

701
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: are way less slippery, and the shape of them works better,

702
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: like you just hold on better. I was just like, oh,

703
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: this is the type of challenge I'm looking for.

704
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I wonder

705
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: whether now after this, they're going to start building buildings

706
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: for you to climb.

707
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: That's what's good happen. I don't think our takes even

708
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: I don't even think it crosses their mind, like what

709
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: humans can hold on the outside, because it's interesting. I mean,

710
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: some buildings are just completely impossible because there's a smooth

711
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: metal and glass, and then other buildings are like a ladder,

712
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: you know, it's almost like a jungle gym where it's

713
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: like too easy, as kind of trivial, like anybody could

714
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: walk up and do it if they wanted to. Like

715
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: the new York Times building in uh, New York City

716
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: has been climbed by a handful of random people and

717
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: like some just random dude off the street just climb

718
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: like half the building because it's like a scaffolding. Basically,

719
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: they're kind of like, well, that's not the challenge that

720
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: I'm looking for, because IVE spent my whole life practicing

721
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: this thing. I want to do something that's hard enough

722
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: that it feels meaningful to me.

723
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: How do you prepare for a climb? So you scout

724
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: it out, but how do you how do you then prepare?

725
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: Like how are you preparing right now for?

726
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: Yeah? I actually just started all my training type stuff

727
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: for it. It's funny. I did the scout in September

728
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: because they have to do it far enough out to

729
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: you know, assemble the crew and plan the filming and

730
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And so it was funny

731
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: because I was super psyched at the time, Like you

732
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: go and scout and you're like, God, this is so cool.

733
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: I'm so excited, Like I want to do this next week.

734
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, let's do this. I'm ready. But

735
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: then I kind of had to just sit on it

736
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: for you know, a couple of months, just because it's

737
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: scheduled for January and so and so. Now sort of

738
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: two and a half months out, I've started like properly training.

739
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 1: You just don't want to start like really training too

740
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: far out because then you'll just get like injured and tired.

741
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: And you know, it's like you kind of want to

742
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: peek at the right time, and so yeah, I'm just

743
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: I don't know like all the all the ways you

744
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: normally train, like eating really well, sleeping really well, exercising

745
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount, and just kind of trying to ramp

746
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: up my volumes that I feel incredibly fit when the

747
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: time comes.

748
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: And that's so interesting that you said you have to

749
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: peek at the right time. So have you learned how

750
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: to do that over time? I assume, because in my head,

751
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, Oh, wait, for something this big, you'd prepare

752
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 2: six months in advance by love where.

753
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: You're say, yeah, yeah, like a training block, normally you

754
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: can only sustain say three to six weeks of hard

755
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: effort before you kind of need like a dload time.

756
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: Like basically you can only build for a certain amount

757
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: of time and then you need some kind of natural

758
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: rest and then you can start building in and so

759
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: ideally you sort of like naturally build up over time.

760
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: But if you were, say six months out from an event,

761
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: you'd have to have a pretty sophisticated like I'm going

762
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: to train really hard for a month, but then rest

763
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: for like a week or two and then train really hard.

764
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: You know, you need like a complicated plan. In this case,

765
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: I have a relatively simple plan and that I'm basically

766
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: just ramping until the building. And I kind of started

767
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: my train maybe a little prematurely. I was all psyched,

768
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: and so I think I'm gonna take a little dload

769
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: time around Christmas, which actually works perfectly with holidays and things,

770
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: because I think I'll basically wind up doing six weeks

771
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: or so and then have like a week at Christmas

772
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: where I kind of chill, and then do another three

773
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: or four weeks and then do the thing. It's not

774
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: just like well, it just seems it's all kind of perfectly,

775
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: you know, I think it should be perfect, but we'll see.

776
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: So far, so far, I'm responding well and feel really strong,

777
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: and yes it's great, but.

778
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm excited to see it, like I'm so

779
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: I'm so thrilled it's to do it live is just

780
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: you know, you're giving us a real treat, Like I think.

781
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting though, because like for me, the

782
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: live thing doesn't if anything, it makes it more chill

783
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: because normally, when you shoot a documentary, you go and

784
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: you do the thing and then you have to go

785
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: back and film on it and you have to shoot

786
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: pickups and shoot audio and like do all this extra

787
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: work basically, and so you know, it's a tremendous amount

788
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: of effort. But for the live event, I'm kind of

789
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna go and I'm gonna do it, and

790
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna fly home and I'm done. It's totally amazing.

791
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: So as soon as like do the climb, I'm totally done.

792
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: Like I'm saying, for us, it's more fun because we

793
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: get to be there with you.

794
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, But I just don't, you know, I basically

795
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: don't totally care, you know, about like other people experience,

796
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: like because oh you don't really you know, oh interesting

797
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: sort of like if it was a film about it,

798
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,959
Speaker 1: like that'd be fine for me too. The live thing. Basically,

799
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: I want to I want to do a climb that

800
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: I'm proud of, Like I'm excited about climbing it and

801
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: the way other people experience that. I'm kind of like,

802
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I mean I don't want to say

803
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: I don't care because I want other people to have,

804
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: you know, a good time from it, but like, you know,

805
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: that's not the priority, you know what I mean? Yeah,

806
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: Well you do it because you love it. Yeah, I

807
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: mean that's that's kind of the thing, and I think.

808
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's brilliant, what a great place. I think everyone

809
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: wants to live that way. You do it because you

810
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 2: love it, It doesn't really matter.

811
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's funny like when it first got announced as

812
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: a project, there was you know, the sort of expected

813
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: online hate and stuff from people in the climbing community

814
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: being like why would you do that? That's stupid, Why

815
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: climb building is too risky, or like you know whatever,

816
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: you know, criticism for various reasons. But I was kind

817
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: of like, man, wait till you see the thing. It's

818
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: so cool, it's so fun. You know, if you had

819
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: the opportunity to do this, you would do it too,

820
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: because like any climber would say yes to this because

821
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: it's super fun and any you know, like getting an

822
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: opportunity to do something amazing. It's like why would you

823
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: ever say no to that? But my goal for the

824
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, if I can say I have a goal

825
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: for the building, I mean other than climbing it is

826
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: just to actually have fun doing it, because I'm kind

827
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: of like, that's what I want people to see from it,

828
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: like this is awesome, you know, not like there's some

829
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: death defying stunt. It should be like this is amazing,

830
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: Like this is so fun, this is joyous. You know, yeah, absolutely,

831
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: we'll see. Yeah.

832
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: I love how playfully you make it because appealing to

833
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: that part. I think we can all relate to that

834
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: when it was just when it was playful, when it

835
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 2: was exciting, when it was.

836
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, it's like that. The thing is it

837
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: gets wrapped in all this like it's extreme and you're

838
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: kind of like, yes, I mean yes, it's very high consequence,

839
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: like if I make a mistake, if I totally watch something,

840
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: I could die, and you're like, yeah, that's you don't

841
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: want to downplay that too much. But at the same time,

842
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: it's pretty fun. And the thing is that those are

843
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: the same consequences if I don't pay attention when I'm

844
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: driving or like whatever else. There are plenty of the

845
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: things you do in life where if you botch it,

846
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: you're going to die. And yet people take some of

847
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: those things for granted it's like, oh, that's just normal life.

848
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: You're kind of like, well, you know, it's like you

849
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: got to be intentional around where you're taking your risks.

850
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think that's a helpful mindset when you

851
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: are doing things as well? To recognize it, to see

852
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 2: it more? Is I guess grounded in real and normal

853
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: in terms of when you're processing things. Is that a

854
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: helpful mindset?

855
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: What do you mean?

856
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: Like, even just the way you describe it, which I

857
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: agree with, You're like, yeah, well there's crazy risk in

858
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: this as well. And you're right, like in driving for example,

859
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: and texting and you know, all that kind of stuff

860
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: or drink driving or whatever.

861
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, dream and driving to me is the thing people

862
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: are always like, oh, climbing seems dangerous, and you're like, well,

863
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: the thing with climbing is at least you're choosing the

864
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: risks that you're taking. And obviously I'm training for them.

865
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 1: I'm preparing for them. You know, I have like imagery

866
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: of the building at home, so I can visualize the moves,

867
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: you know, Like there's a lot that goes into it.

868
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: Whereas people go out and party on Friday night and

869
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: then they drive home, they're like, what else, you know,

870
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: it's just a Friday and partying, and you like, well,

871
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: those you're taking a tremendous amount of risk sort of unintentionally. Yeah,

872
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: I mean, and those are the types of things where

873
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: we're like, you know, it's like if you're not choosing

874
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: to take those risks, I don't know. I mean, I

875
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:12,959
Speaker 1: think that's kind of worse.

876
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: Talk to me about the visualization because I'm such a

877
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 2: big fan of visualizing.

878
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I read about it, meditation technique.

879
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 2: Talk to me about where you just said you have

880
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 2: a picture of the building.

881
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, so I mean in rock climbing, like when

882
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: I'm climbing hard routes, let's say, you always just imagine

883
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: the route, you think about it, you remember the moves.

884
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: Part of it is to physically remember what to do,

885
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: like left hand, right hand, like drop the left and hip,

886
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: you know, turn the knee, things like that, like the

887
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: mechanics of it. And then part of the visualization is

888
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: like what will it feel like, particularly around freesoling things

889
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: that you're not going to be able to practice necessarily,

890
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: So some of the visualizing is just you know, like,

891
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: how will it feel to put my foot on something

892
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 1: that's really slippery when you know I'm going to die

893
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: of its lips, and so you're just kind of imagining

894
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: the sensations and all that that kind of stuff.

895
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 2: So you can't as part of free selling, you can't

896
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 2: go and climb this building at any point in order

897
00:35:59,400 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 2: to practice.

898
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: Well, I can go practice it with a rope, okay,

899
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: but the thing is you just don't know, because when

900
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: you have a rope on, you don't really mind if

901
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: your foot's going to slip or something. But then when

902
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: you take the rope, boy, you're kind of like, well,

903
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: is it going to feel different? Like, I don't know,

904
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: And you can't totally practice that, so you kind of

905
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: have to do that mentally, just imagine it.

906
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: And yeah, you get a sense while you're on the rope,

907
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: almost as a dress rehearsal, Yeah, feeling, and then you're

908
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 2: having to remember that feeling.

909
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and sort of imagine the potential feelings because it.

910
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: Part of the benefit of visualization, I think is that

911
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: you're like, what if it's humid that day, what it's

912
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: particularly dry, and like with the building It's interesting because

913
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: with glass and metal, you know, the texture is obviously

914
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: really different than rock, and so I'm not sure if

915
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 1: I want it to be humid or if I want

916
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: it to be dry. Like with rock, you normally want

917
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: it to be super dry because it's human it's too

918
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: slippery on the rock. But with a building, because it's

919
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: so slippery to begin with, I think you actually want

920
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: some humidity so it doesn't feel as slowly like you

921
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: want your skin to stick to it a little bit,

922
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: and so you want like a little bit of dampness.

923
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: But obviously you don't wetness. You don't want it to

924
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: be wet because then it's really slipvery So anyway, just

925
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 1: thinking about stuff like that, I mean, that's all part

926
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: of visuals, and I think, but what I was going

927
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: to say is that with rock climbing, you know, you

928
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 1: don't normally have footage of any of this type of stuff,

929
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: so you just imagine it. You remember, you think about

930
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: the climb with this building. You know, we already went

931
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: into a scout and they're practicing the camera positions. They

932
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 1: fluid drone up and down the building to I figure

933
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: out the angles and all that kind of stuff. And

934
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: so I never I don't think I'd ever done this before,

935
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: but I kind of reached out the production team was

936
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: kind of like, send me, you know, selects of the

937
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: whole building so I can remember all the all the

938
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 1: different sequences better. And so they sent me just some

939
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: visuals of the building, but then they also sent me

940
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: some clips of me climbing different things, and I was like, oh,

941
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: this is actually tremendously useful because I can see, you know,

942
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: how I'm doing it and what I can do better,

943
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: and just you know, I was like, oh, this is great.

944
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 2: I love that you use visualization as a technique.

945
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: Though every climber does. It's a really big part of climbing.

946
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 2: And you're visualizing the process, the texture, the feeling, everything, Yeah,

947
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: every detail that you could possibly imagine or not from.

948
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: And sometimes you imagine, you know, the experience, like the

949
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: consequences of it are like what if you do fall,

950
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: Like I mean, like particularly with freeswing all cab, like

951
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: with I've spent so long kind of working on that.

952
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought about, like what if I fell

953
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: from here, fell from there? Just because and even though

954
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: those are terrible things to visualize, because you fall into

955
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: your death in horrible ways because you know, in a

956
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: lot of places, falling off a mountain it's not like

957
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: a clean it's not like I fell and then you

958
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: hit the ground. It's like you bounce, you know, hundreds

959
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: of feet or a thousand feet, and it's a disaster.

960
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: And so but it's important to think about that stuff

961
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: ahead of time so that when you're up there, you

962
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: don't suddenly for the first time. You know, it's not like, oh,

963
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: if I fell here, it would be horrible. It's like, No,

964
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: You've already thought about that, you visualize it, you processed it,

965
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: and you've chosen to set that aside and execute the

966
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: climb anyway.

967
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've already sat with the discomfort of that feeling

968
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: in a safe environment exactly, So now you can track

969
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: them and bring that with you to this day.

970
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, now you don't have to think about it while

971
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: you're up there. Yeah. I mean, ideally, you think through

972
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 1: all that stuff ahead of time. And so far with

973
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: the building, I haven't gotten too deep in all that yet,

974
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: just because I'm still kind of a ways out and

975
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: I'm sort of focused on the physical side, and it's

976
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: just not quite as close to my personal edge. I

977
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: think I'm pretty sure, Like I just I think it

978
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 1: should be well within my comfort zone. I think. So

979
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: there's just not as much time to vote to like

980
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: what if I die? But you know we'll see no no.

981
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 2: I But I love the visual do you what's interesting

982
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 2: to me? Because I'm thinking about all of us and

983
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: I you know, I think the smallest things in the

984
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: world would be easier if so. For example, I've been

985
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 2: public speaking for years and I've always asked for a

986
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 2: picture of the stage so that I can visualize myself

987
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 2: walking out so that I don't trip over when I

988
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 2: go out there, so that I and I think about

989
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 2: all that. And I'm giving a very human example of

990
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: something like that that I hope my listeners can take

991
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 2: away going Okay, well, how do I use that? I'm like, yeah,

992
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: I visualize myself giving presentations. I visualized myself doing difficult

993
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: things for the first time. I visualized pretty much everything.

994
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: I use it as a technique.

995
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: You're a trained visualizer us. It's easy tool for you

996
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: to pull out of the box, for.

997
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 2: Sure, but I would really encourage people to do it

998
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: because hearing you talk about it, I'm like, yeah, you're

999
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: visualizing all the details and what I love that you

1000
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 2: haven't once said, and I want to ask you about this,

1001
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,479
Speaker 2: is you didn't just say, oh, I visualize myself getting

1002
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 2: to the top and celebrating. It's like, no, I visualize.

1003
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: Care about that? Yeah, yeah, I thought you didn't.

1004
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 2: That's talk to me about that, because I think that's

1005
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: what today when we do about manifesting and visualizing, people

1006
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: have this visualized way.

1007
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: You want to visualize success, right, and it's like, who

1008
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: cares about that? Because like that'll just follow like if

1009
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,479
Speaker 1: that happens, great, if it doesn't. Whatever. Yeah, it's funny,

1010
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: I haven't visualized that. Actually, I mean it's not totally true,

1011
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: because the top of the buildings is an incredible little spire.

1012
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: It's like a small rule. Yes, it's basically the space

1013
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: between us. It's just a little dom. And so you

1014
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 1: just stand on this, Yeah, you stand on this tiny

1015
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: little pinnacle and it's incredible in the views and saying,

1016
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: but you know, I've already gone up there, like climbed

1017
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 1: up through the hatch just to like check it out

1018
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: and repel off the side and things, and so you know,

1019
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: I know it's amazing, and I know that it's going

1020
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: to feel amazing to stand up there. So I don't

1021
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: really like visualized that because I'll just you know, it's

1022
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: like when it happens, it happens. But no, you visualize

1023
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: this stuff that's important. But actually, I mean talking about this,

1024
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: you think, I think in some ways, if you're talking

1025
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: to like the late person audience, whatever, I think maybe

1026
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: it's worth not framing it as visualization because you know,

1027
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: over the years, as a climber, I've always just kind

1028
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 1: of thought of as daydreaming. You know. It's like because

1029
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: also as a climber, you spent so much I'm hiking

1030
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: to and from cliffs, and I spend a lot of

1031
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: time by myself walking around, you know, in the mountains,

1032
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: and you just spend a lot of time daydreaming basically,

1033
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: like thinking about climbing. And so you know, occasionally, like

1034
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 1: a project like this, I'll intentionally visualize whe I'm like, okay,

1035
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: I'm getting ready for a thing. But basically, anytime I

1036
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: go wandering in the mountains, I spend a tremendous amount

1037
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: of time just thinking about you know, like your mind's

1038
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: always wandering on something, it might as well be wandering

1039
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: through climbs that you're excited about or things that you're

1040
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: thinking about, or projects that you have, like things on

1041
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: the back burner that you didn't quite do that you

1042
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: want to go back to. So you know, I mean,

1043
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: I think it's less daunting to think of it as like, oh,

1044
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: when you're out for a hike or like out for

1045
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: a walk with your dog, you just daydream about things

1046
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: that matter to you. Like that is visualization. Yes, you know,

1047
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: like you can make it more focused, and you can,

1048
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: you can do it more intentionally, but at the core

1049
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: is just it's just imagining stuff.

1050
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I like that. And the truth is all

1051
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 2: of us are imagining, but most of us are imagining

1052
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: worst case scenario, imagin in the meeting and going, oh god,

1053
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get fired today or you know that that's

1054
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 2: how we imagine.

1055
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 1: I wonder about that because so I don't really have

1056
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: that so much. I didn't think you did. Yeah, and

1057
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: I do kind of wonder if I'm just like just

1058
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: a little less neurotic than average, like as a base hardwired,

1059
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it's interesting. I've I've

1060
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 1: read it, you know, I just read your book. I've

1061
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: read a ton of like self help type stuff over

1062
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: the years, and like all kinds of and generally I

1063
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 1: read and I'm like, I'm already living my best life,

1064
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: Like I love my life. I'm doing what I love

1065
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: to do, and like I love that. And so I mean,

1066
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, I love reading books like that because

1067
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: I feel like if I get one little nugget that

1068
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: like helps me, it's like totally worth it. But at

1069
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: the same time, I'm just kind of like, I don't

1070
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: know if this book was written for me, you know

1071
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, I don't feel like I'm struggling

1072
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: with a lot of the things that that it seems

1073
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: like some of these types of books are written for,

1074
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: Like I'm not struggling with with inner turmoil around a

1075
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: lot of this type of stuff. I'm kind of like,

1076
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: is that you know, basically is that nature and nurtures?

1077
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: Like is that just the way it is? Or or

1078
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: is that a lifetime been outside being scared? And I

1079
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, I mean, I mean I've feel like,

1080
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: how much natural anxiety do you have? No?

1081
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: I feel similarly to you, Okay, like you.

1082
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: Just never felt afflicted by Like that wasn't how I

1083
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: operated in general.

1084
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just not how I and I think

1085
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 2: it's because I was exposed to so much of it

1086
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: when I was young. So I think it is the

1087
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 2: exposure of being overexposed to discomfort, anxiety, pain, stress. But

1088
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 2: I've seen that go both ways. So I've seen that

1089
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: lead to people becoming free of it or having less

1090
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 2: of it, or being able to know how to manage it.

1091
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: I've also seen it go towards people anxiety, and then

1092
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 2: I've seen also people creating great success in order to

1093
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 2: protect themselves from it. And so there's almost like it

1094
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: can go in three ways. And so it's not that

1095
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: simply being exposed to discomfort makes you stronger. It depends

1096
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 2: on how the person reacts to it. It's almost like

1097
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 2: there's this old story which I love, which is like

1098
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 2: when you put three different things in boiling water, differ

1099
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 2: and things happen to them. So it's like you put

1100
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 2: you put a potato and boiling water, it gets softer.

1101
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 2: You put a egg and boiling water harder. You put

1102
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,479
Speaker 2: coffee beans in boiling water, they let out the best scent.

1103
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 2: And so there's this old story that goes which one

1104
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 2: of you are you, you know, an egg, potato? Are

1105
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 2: you a coffee bean? And so it's almost like the

1106
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 2: pressure of hot water. What does it do to you?

1107
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 2: And that's always been an interesting thing of do we

1108
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 2: get to choose that or are we wired that?

1109
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 1: What does that look like? Yeah, but I think about

1110
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 1: this stufe more and I have two little kids, and

1111
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: so you know, like questions of nature versus nurture, I

1112
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: just think about a lot more because you're kind of like,

1113
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,240
Speaker 1: you know, are we having any impact on these SHOs?

1114
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: Like are they just fully baked as Oh you find it?

1115
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm intrigued this. Well, they're so young, it's her to tell,

1116
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: but you just see so much innate in them when

1117
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: you're like you're just your own little person, and you know,

1118
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: they're probably things that we could do negatively to like

1119
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: negatively impact their development, But I don't know how much

1120
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna do positive, you know what I mean. I'm

1121
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: kind of like, I think they're going to be fine.

1122
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: But in some ways it takes away a lot of

1123
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: the stress of parenting where you're just kind of like,

1124
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not trying to like shape them into anything,

1125
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: like I think they're going to be freaking great. We're

1126
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: just trying to make sure they're happy and safe and

1127
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, like have their material needs met and things

1128
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 1: and let them blossom into whatever they're gonna bostom into.

1129
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: But we'll see. I mean, I'm just starting and I

1130
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: don't really know anything about doesn't we're just winging it.

1131
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I remember a friend, like I were not

1132
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 2: parents yet, but I remember a friend like they raise

1133
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: their kid with like their kid would be like playing

1134
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,479
Speaker 2: with fire and like jumping up and down and running around,

1135
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 2: and it's like and I would I didn't this. I

1136
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 2: was much younger then, and I didn't know their style,

1137
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 2: and so I would get scared when their kid was

1138
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 2: near a candle or something.

1139
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: It'd be like, nope, let the kid be near a candle.

1140
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 1: Like they'll figure it out themselves. Yeah yeah, well yeah,

1141
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: I'll just talk about risk taking all that. I mean,

1142
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: I definitely I think with the kids, you know, obviously

1143
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to see them get grievously injured, but

1144
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: I don't really mind seeing them get a little bit

1145
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 1: injured because like see them fall down all the time,

1146
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,720
Speaker 1: Like that's fine. It's like I mean, as a climary,

1147
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: you just fall down all the time, and like you

1148
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: just get you know, booboos, NonStop, and so like with

1149
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 1: the kids, you're just kind of like, yeah, it's fine

1150
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: to get hurt all the time, just but we're there

1151
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: to prevent catastrophic injuries and like and and now we

1152
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: kind of see that already with the kids, where you're like, oh,

1153
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: you know, they just seem a little bolder than than

1154
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: some other kids their age maybe. But then you wonder,

1155
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: is that nature? Is that nurture? Is that because we

1156
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 1: allow them the latitude to explore like that, or is

1157
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: that you know, because it's my daughter and whatever, you know,

1158
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like my wife and I are

1159
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: already sort of adventurous people or like, and so our

1160
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: kids are too. I don't know, We'll see.

1161
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, can you can you be a climber and be

1162
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 2: a perfectionist?

1163
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: I think yeah, I think you can be. I mean

1164
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: in some ways, I actually think I think I'm a

1165
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: recovered perfectionist in some ways, well, I don't know. I

1166
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: mean I think that my mom is like a major perfectionist,

1167
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: like like like psycho, and so I think we were

1168
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: sort of raised that way. It's like that's the that's

1169
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: the norm. But I mean, but the reality is like

1170
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: I'm a very lazy person, like I just often do

1171
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 1: the bare minimum and things that I don't care about

1172
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: or like the minimum requirement to you know whatever, and

1173
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: so I don't know, like how do you reconcile like

1174
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: perfections tendencies have been incredibly lazy, like I don't know stuff,

1175
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: and so now I think I don't know. I think

1176
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: I've hit a real sweet spot where it's like I

1177
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: work really hard on the things I care about, and

1178
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: then everything else I just don't stress.

1179
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that's that makes a

1180
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: lot of sense. I mean that to me seems to

1181
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 2: be a trait of highly high performers and successful people

1182
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: in general that they're able.

1183
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: To know or focus on the thing that matters, yeah,

1184
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: and what not that you guys absolutely and what not

1185
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: to waste time on. And it's taking me a long

1186
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: time to get there, I think, you know, because I

1187
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: think through early life you're just so hung up on

1188
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: like appearances and what you should be doing, what you

1189
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: think you ought to be, you know whatever, and then

1190
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: eventually you're just kind of like, you know, I'm only

1191
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 1: good at a couple of things. I was just focus

1192
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: on the thing I'm going at and just do it. Yeah,

1193
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: just and just be happy. Don't it talk to me.

1194
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to go back.

1195
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: You were saying that right now, you're working out, diet, sleep, Like,

1196
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: walk me through what that routine looks like. I love

1197
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 2: I love learning about people who living credible lives and

1198
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: their different systems that they have in place to be

1199
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 2: able to pull off great feets.

1200
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's all normal stuff like eat well, exercise,

1201
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: what do you Yeah, so I'm eating a vegetarian basically,

1202
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: you know, mostly whole foods. I don't know, Like dinner

1203
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 1: last night was like tofu roasted broccoli and cauliflower and

1204
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: some like some purple sweet potato thing. I think that

1205
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: was an oh, and some and Brussels sproudes. But it's

1206
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: basically just a bowl of like vegetables. And it's interesting

1207
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: because even like a couple of months ago, I would

1208
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 1: have thought of that as a sort of inadequate dinner,

1209
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 1: you know, But like the last several weeks, I've basically

1210
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: just been eating like whole foods and no sugar and

1211
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: like wholes and meals, and I'm kind of like, you know,

1212
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 1: I've just kind of like adapted to it. Like this

1213
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 1: feels good and I feel great, and you have sleeping

1214
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: well and.

1215
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: How much do you try and sleep? And when do

1216
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:48,879
Speaker 2: you sleep well?

1217
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: Basically, I mean the babies have been waking up actually

1218
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: are we have like a there'll be two and four

1219
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,399
Speaker 1: in February, so right now is like one in three

1220
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 1: quarters or whatever. But for whatever, he's just waking up

1221
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: with the mid all the night a bunch right now,

1222
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: which is like a new I think it's like an

1223
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 1: envilnmental phase. You know, it's like she's suddenly made a leap,

1224
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: but she's saying way more. But you're like, god, go

1225
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 1: back to sleep, like oh man. But so we basically

1226
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: sleep from like ten to six every day, like roughly

1227
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: eight hours every day, but then sometimes a little more

1228
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: or less. But then you know, you know, the other

1229
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 1: night I got up at three and then just like

1230
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: made a bottle for my baby and like it did

1231
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: a whole nother bedtime for it three in the morning,

1232
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: like basically like read her a story and put her

1233
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 1: back to bed. It's kind of like, huh, what an

1234
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: unusual night. Yeah, so you know, I can't take it

1235
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 1: too seriously. It's not like but you know, it's it's

1236
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 1: enough though. I mean, we're sleeping a well.

1237
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 2: And vegetarian over a meat diet.

1238
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 1: Because I'd always cared more about the environmental impact, like

1239
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: just the the impact on the earth. But i also

1240
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: feel like it's a little cleaner and I'm not like

1241
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: super uptid about it. Like I'll eat fish and generally

1242
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 1: I'll eat meat if it's gonna be wasted, you know,

1243
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: if like somebody has a serving, I'm like, oh, what's

1244
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 1: better than throwing it away? But I just don't buy meat,

1245
00:49:58,640 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: and I don't really do dairy.

1246
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 2: I think you find that affects your performance too.

1247
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: I think I'm kind of like it in tolerant a

1248
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: little bit, and so I'm kind of like it's probably

1249
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: not like the best, but yeah, it's just but again,

1250
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 1: it's also better for the earth. I'm kind of like

1251
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: it seems better, right. Interesting. The main thing for me

1252
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 1: is noting desserts, like not eating extra sugar. It just

1253
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: keeps everything. Yeah don't then that's well, I actually so interesting.

1254
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: I'm maybe like two weeks into eating really well right now,

1255
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: and you just lose the cravings. Yeah, you feel once

1256
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: you get past that.

1257
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 2: I go through periods of being completely off and then

1258
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 2: I have like you know, during Christmas.

1259
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,280
Speaker 1: Time, I'll probably yeah, exactly, gravel a little bit again.

1260
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 2: But when I'm off, I feel like my taste MUDs changed.

1261
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just feel so much better. Yeah, I know.

1262
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 1: It's all the things you read about in books that

1263
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: you're just like, nah, that's stupid, and then you actually

1264
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: experience it and you're like, well, it does seem like

1265
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: it's true. Man.

1266
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 2: Imagine it's the twenty second of January.

1267
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: What do you do?

1268
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: What's your ritual the night before? Is it different?

1269
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: Do you have a ritual? But the night before at

1270
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: big time, I mean the day before be arrested. I

1271
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: might do some cardio or something, go for like light

1272
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: run or go there. There're a bunch of really cool

1273
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: mountains like in the city, so you can go run

1274
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 1: around them. They're like monkeys in the jungle and so

1275
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: it's really cool, so you can like run around in

1276
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 1: the mountains a little bit. So I'll probably do some

1277
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: cardio or something, but basically no strengous like size, and

1278
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: then I'll just go to better loon, you know, just

1279
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: try to eat well and go to sleep. Basically, you

1280
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: just want it to be normal because a normal day

1281
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: it's chill and then you wake up the next day

1282
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: and you do the thing.

1283
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. It se whenever when I'm hearing you speak about it.

1284
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 2: Which is really refreshing is that it's such a it

1285
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 2: feels like such a natural part of your life.

1286
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: Well I think that's how you want to make it. Yeah, yeah,

1287
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: because then it doesn't feel extreme, you know, it doesn't

1288
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: like it doesn't require some crazy things that you do,

1289
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: like this is this is what you do. This is normal.

1290
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 2: Yes, And I can I can liken it too. And

1291
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 2: I'm only translating it because I always think about our listeners,

1292
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: but I can translate it to in the past, if

1293
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 2: I was sitting down with someone that I was a

1294
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 2: huge fan of and I built that up, it would

1295
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: actually make me a bad interview totally, because you're you know, yeah,

1296
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 2: and I would do that when I first started this show,

1297
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 2: and and over time people saw me relaxing and easy

1298
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 2: in and sometimes I said to me, I was like,

1299
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 2: it's not that I wasn't super excited, it was just

1300
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:13,879
Speaker 2: I had to continue to do my job.

1301
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,720
Speaker 1: Keep it chill, keep it chill. I got this, Yeah, exactly,

1302
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 1: so exactly what you're saying. So with with freesoling all

1303
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: cap like I knew it would be the biggest thing

1304
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: I'd ever do, Like I knew, I mean, I didn't

1305
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: think the film would be as successful as it was,

1306
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: but I knew that it would be far beyond anything

1307
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 1: I'd ever done, because it's you know, it's a future

1308
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: documentary and whatever, and I knew the climb would be insane.

1309
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, the main challenge

1310
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: of freesoling is psychological. Like I had climbed del Cap

1311
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: with ropes, you know, many years before. I'd without falling

1312
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: off many years before. Like technically I was physically able

1313
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: to do it many years before. But the psychological challenge,

1314
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: the believing you can do it, and you know, when

1315
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: your life is on the line, that like that's a

1316
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: that's a bigger challenge. And so I didn't want to

1317
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: build it up even bigger in my mind because you're, like,

1318
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: the challenge is already psychological. I don't need to like

1319
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: pile on and make it even harder. And so a

1320
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 1: big part of my strategy with ol Cap was to

1321
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: make it part of my normal year. And so, like

1322
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 1: right after I freesol it our Cap, I went on

1323
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: this exhibition to Alaska, which is like a normal As

1324
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: a professional climber, you go on trips to places, you

1325
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,720
Speaker 1: try to climb new walls, whatever, And so it allowed

1326
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: me to look at my seventy season that year. It's

1327
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: kind of building up for Alaska. And actually in the

1328
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 1: Alaska trip was because I went on an exhibition later

1329
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 1: in that year to Antarctica, and I was kind of like, oh,

1330
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: I haven't been on skis in a while. It would

1331
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: be nice to like do some glacier travel and climb

1332
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 1: some big granite spires on snow because it'll be good

1333
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: for Antarctica. And so I was kind of like, oh,

1334
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: U seventy season just building up for Alaska, which is

1335
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: building up for Antarctica. And so I took a lot

1336
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:43,919
Speaker 1: of the pressure off having to achieve on El Cap

1337
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 1: or whatever, because I'm like, oh, either way, this is

1338
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: practice for these other things coming up. And I mean,

1339
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: I knew that the other things don't freaking matter comt

1340
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: of f resoling our cap, but you know, it's like

1341
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 1: it's good to keep it, keep it feeling chill. So

1342
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I've always been into sort of stacking my

1343
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: goals in that way, trying to make sure that you

1344
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 1: don't let them get too big. You know, it's like

1345
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: you keep it all I don't know. Yeah, so the

1346
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: building's kind of the same way where I'm like, obviously

1347
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: that's more important than some of the other things I'm

1348
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: working on right now, but I do have a bunch

1349
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: of other climbing projects that are sort of intermixed with

1350
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 1: the training, and so it keeps it all feeling mellow.

1351
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you when you sum it like l CAP

1352
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 2: or anything like that, where you where you reach the top,

1353
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 2: how do you find you process that feeling? Like, what

1354
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 2: does that feel like to you? Is it gratifying? Do

1355
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 2: you experience it?

1356
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm psyched. I'll be like this is amazing. Yeah,

1357
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: I mean with ol Cap, it was such a long

1358
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: and it was so on the edge of what I

1359
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: thought was possible, and so it meant a lot. You know,

1360
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: it meant a lot to me. I put so much

1361
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: into it, and the pressure with the film crew and

1362
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: all this stuff. I mean it was insane. So it

1363
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 1: definitely was like this is this is amazing. I mean

1364
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: the building too. I'm sure I'll send at the time

1365
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 1: and be like this is awesome. I'll be so psyched,

1366
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 1: But then you know, I'll take the elevator down and

1367
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, what a day. I was, like, what

1368
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: a joy. I'm sure I'll be glowing like until I'm

1369
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: back home. But then as soon as I fly back

1370
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: to to my own Las Vegas, I'll be back to

1371
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 1: normal climb projects like things that because I wouldn't be

1372
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: at all surprised. Basically, there's several other things I'm trying

1373
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: to do at home as a sort of build up

1374
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 1: and training for the building, and I wouldn't be surprised

1375
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: if I don't manage to do any or all of them.

1376
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: You know, we'll see which things I managed to do,

1377
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: and so as soon as I finished the building, I'll

1378
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 1: just be back to try to finish my training goals. Basically.

1379
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, is it right you were talking about waking up

1380
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 2: and the baby being awake at night. Is this the

1381
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 2: first time you're doing a climb as a father and

1382
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:28,319
Speaker 2: a husband.

1383
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 1: No, No, it's not. I mean I've done a handful

1384
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: of things that that are cutting edge with the kids. Actually,

1385
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 1: I did kind of my hardest like free solo to

1386
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: date for the Spear Like it'll be this cool like

1387
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: in saying there's a bunch of the same crew from

1388
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: Free solo, so it's like the same same co directors

1389
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 1: and stuff, and so it's really fun to get run

1390
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: back together and we and I free sold this wall

1391
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: in Jordan in the Middle East. It's like twelve hundred

1392
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 1: foot sandstone wall, and it was probably I told my

1393
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: wife it's like probably top ten hardest things I've ever sold,

1394
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: in which she was like, top tens, like kind of

1395
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: hard because I've actually done way more than what's in

1396
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: the public, like like on film, because just building up

1397
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: del Cap, I did like a ton of things that

1398
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: were that are very hard. And so this thing for

1399
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 1: the sphere that was probably the first thing I've done

1400
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: with kids where I was like, this is actually kind

1401
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 1: of cutting edge and pretty hard. And before doing it,

1402
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: I was kind of like, is this going to be different,

1403
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, like am I going to be up there

1404
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: thinking about my kids being like, oh god, this is

1405
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: so scary now? But I got up there and I

1406
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 1: was like, this is awesome. So it's like, is this amazing?

1407
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 1: While it's a really classic greed, it's it's famous, and

1408
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's it's really high quality. And so I

1409
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 1: was just up there and being like this is so amazing,

1410
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 1: and I felt great.

1411
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 2: It's what you can experience that in the sphere in Vegas.

1412
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: In the next next fall, I think, so I got

1413
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: years of cool. Yeah yeah, well we'll see. Uh. I

1414
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: think it's hard to film for something like that, you know,

1415
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: it's hard to shoot on these crazy cameras. So we'll

1416
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: see how it turns out. But in theory, next uh,

1417
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: next fall would be a thing like that. Just this

1418
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 1: might all need to get gout. But like, I don't know,

1419
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: ask someone who's smarter than me.

1420
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I just I just went to watch

1421
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 2: Wizard of was then. But it was insane. Yeah, I

1422
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 2: heard really incredible. I was so blown away by it.

1423
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine, you know, yeah, that's the things

1424
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: I think seen Solong like that would be. I can

1425
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: say it would be amazing. Yeah, real experience.

1426
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 2: So it's interesting you said that you know you've done

1427
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 2: to hear you say you've done crazier, harder climbs that

1428
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:31,959
Speaker 2: have never been documented.

1429
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: Well, not harder than El Cap, but leading up to

1430
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: El Cap actually, so let's see. I mean I can

1431
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: remember so leading up to ol Cap, I had three

1432
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: other routes that were very h I mean, they're similar,

1433
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 1: they're not as hard and they're not as big, but

1434
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: they kind of led up to it, and one of

1435
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: them got filmed for YouTube basically, and then the other

1436
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: two never nobody ever even saw them, you know, like

1437
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: like one of my friends saw one of them with

1438
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: binoculars from the parking lot. This is one area, but

1439
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,919
Speaker 1: like basically nobody saw any of the other side one

1440
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: of them. Not only did nobody see it, like nobody

1441
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: was even in the climbing region. I went in and

1442
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: I'd been planning on prepping it for several days, but

1443
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: then my van ran out of propane and it was

1444
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: like this insanely long, windy road to go back to town,

1445
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 1: and I was kind of like, oh, I can't cook,

1446
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: and so I was like, screw it. So I just

1447
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: did the soul the next day so I could drive

1448
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: back out and just leave because I didn't want to

1449
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: because I couldn't cook and I didn't want to take

1450
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 1: a whatever. So I was like, well, that's the ultimate

1451
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: like rushed solo. You know, you're kind of like nobody

1452
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: saw it. Nobody, there was no plan. I just like

1453
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 1: got it done and left. Yeah, So I've done a

1454
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: lot of things like that over the years.

1455
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 2: Well, do you do you have conversations with your wife

1456
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:35,919
Speaker 2: before you decide what you're going to climb and stuff

1457
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 2: for is this kind of like this is what I'm doing?

1458
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: And yeah, no, for the most part. I mean when

1459
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: we first met, I mean like, if you've seen the

1460
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 1: free film pre solo, it all sounds pretty you know,

1461
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: like like I don't care at all about her feelings,

1462
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: and I think that's gives a slightly wrong impression, just

1463
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: because at that point, I've been dreaming about al Cap

1464
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 1: for you know, eight years or something, and then i'd

1465
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 1: met I actually met my now wife at the exact

1466
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 1: same time that we started filming for the the documentary.

1467
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: So we filmed for sort of two years to make

1468
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: that documentary, and so that was the first two years

1469
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 1: of our relationship. And you know, I was like, oh,

1470
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: she's amazing and this is great, but you know, it's

1471
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: some random PERSONI I got six months ago. Like it's

1472
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: not going to get in the way of a life dream,

1473
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: you know. But now it's totally different because I'm like, oh,

1474
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: we've been together ten years, we have kids, we have

1475
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: a life together, like you know, I live with like

1476
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: my in laws, and then you know, it's all, it's

1477
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: all much more tightly woven, and so her opinion matters

1478
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: a lot more for projects.

1479
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 2: Now, how did you know she was the right person?

1480
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: I know, she's just she's so great. I mean, I

1481
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: think when I proposed there was I said something along

1482
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: the lines of, you know, like this is great. Can

1483
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: we just keep doing this forever? You know, Like was

1484
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 1: like why not? Yeah. I've never been into the big

1485
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 1: like romantic gesture type of thing because I kind of

1486
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: think the day to day life is like one of

1487
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: the things that I think is great in our in

1488
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: our late like we have what we call sleepovers at night,

1489
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: Like basically at night we always chit chat for a

1490
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: really long time, which is detrimental to our sleep, but

1491
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: it's like but whenever we go to bed, we always

1492
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 1: have like you know, we chitchat for a while. And

1493
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, it's so nice. You know. It's like

1494
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 1: you want to have a buddy that you chitchat with

1495
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: your whole life, Like I don't know, I want to do

1496
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: that forever. I love that.

1497
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 2: Man, does she find obviously what you do inspired? Like,

1498
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 2: how what's her take on it? Like if she was

1499
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 2: here right now? And I was like describe what Alex does,

1500
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: like how it feels for her.

1501
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: What would you say, I don't know. I don't know.

1502
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, she must be at least slightly

1503
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: impressed by it. I mean, she didn't meet me at

1504
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 1: a book for but at the same time, yeah, well, actually,

1505
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 1: though she didn't really climb at the time, her friend

1506
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: was into it, and so her friend basically dragged her along, like,

1507
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: come to this event, and she had just gotten disillusioned

1508
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 1: with dating apps. And she was like, the next person

1509
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 1: I see that I think is cool. I mean to

1510
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 1: give him my number. And so afterward I was like

1511
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 1: signing books and she just gave me her number and

1512
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: I was like cool, and so I texted her and

1513
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: then I never married. You know, long story short. Yeah,

1514
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: yeah it was cool. But yes, obviously she must care

1515
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: a little bit, but I don't think she cares that much.

1516
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: She climbed too, Yeah, yeah, now she's she basically kind

1517
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: of started climbing roughly the same time that she had

1518
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 1: just started when we met. And so now it's been

1519
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 1: ten years and you know, now she's quite a good climber.

1520
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: Well that's awesome. Will you ever do a climb together? Well,

1521
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: we climb together all the time, not like extreme climbing,

1522
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 1: but yeah, we try to climb together as much as possible.

1523
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: Now with the two kids, it's a little harder for

1524
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: us to go out together. But then now, I mean

1525
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 1: sometimes we go on sort of climbing trips as a

1526
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: family and then the kids just run around the forest

1527
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: and play and we boulder. It's like we're going to

1528
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 1: do a family bowlding trip in France in the springtime.

1529
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: It's like a really famous bowlding destination. But it's amazing

1530
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: for the kids because its basically a sandy forest with

1531
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, nice soft trees and sand everywhere, So the

1532
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:31,479
Speaker 1: kids just roam and play. It's like, really cool.

1533
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 2: Is there a part of the world that you're fascinated

1534
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 2: by that you haven't visited yet?

1535
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: Act she's Southeast Asia. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm fascinated,

1536
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: but I've never been. I always wanted to, and there's

1537
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: tons of climbing. It's also kind of hot and humid,

1538
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: and so I'm sure I'll go at some point. But honestly,

1539
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: I traveled quite a lot before before I had my

1540
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 1: wife and kids. You know, I was kind of a

1541
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 1: broad like maybe three months a year or something for

1542
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: climbing trips and a lot of that. Now I'm kind

1543
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: of waiting until the kids are a little older, because

1544
01:01:58,040 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, if I'm going to travel, I'm want to

1545
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: take the kids, and I want them to be old

1546
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: enough to remember it and have a real life experience.

1547
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 1: So I think, in general, are traveling is a little

1548
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,919
Speaker 1: bit on hold until kids are older, and then I'm

1549
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 1: like really excited to show them some of these places.

1550
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 2: Do you believe your work has a message or a

1551
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 2: mission beyond personal joy and fulfillment and thriving in play

1552
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 2: or is it truly that?

1553
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: Is it? I mean, not that big of a mission.

1554
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 1: I mean, so part of the reason that I started

1555
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: the Honol Foundation a long time ago, I mean, I

1556
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: started this foundation, the sports community solar projects around the

1557
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 1: world was that, you know, I had a lot of

1558
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: work opportunities that I didn't necessarily need to take because

1559
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: I didn't need the money because I was living by

1560
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: myself in a band. I was kind of like, you know,

1561
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 1: I don't need to make this. I mean, this is

1562
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: a lot of the stem from one specific experience where

1563
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: I shot this commercial for a bank, and you know,

1564
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: and they wound up airing the commercial a ton And

1565
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 1: this wasn't even like it wasn't even for me as

1566
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: like a famous climb or anything. It was like Sagrades

1567
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 1: or whatever, like screen actors girls. I just signed the

1568
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: normal contract, but they wound up using the ad a ton.

1569
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 1: It aired all the world, and so I made, you know,

1570
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: like six figures or something off of like a day

1571
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: and a half of shooting. And I was like, well,

1572
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: there's no justice in that, you know. And the thing

1573
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 1: is is that it was work that I would have

1574
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: done for free, because it's like you're going out with

1575
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 1: your friends and you're climbing in some spire and they're

1576
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: shooting with a helicopter and it's super you know, it's crazy,

1577
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: it's like super fun work. You're like, this is a

1578
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: total life experience that you would do as a rest

1579
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: day anyway, you know what I mean, Because like when

1580
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 1: you're shooting commercial like that, it's not like you're training.

1581
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: It's not like it's hard, and so you're doing it

1582
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: as a rest day and you're like, well, either I

1583
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: would have sat in my van and read all day,

1584
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 1: or I can go like climb the spire with my

1585
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 1: friend with a helicopter. It's insane. So you're like, obviously

1586
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 1: you want to do things like that, but I was

1587
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: kind of like, I don't need the money from it.

1588
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 1: I don't like need to do this type of work.

1589
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: And so part of starting my foundation was kind of like, well,

1590
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: it's a nice way to funnel all that, you know,

1591
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: sort of funnel the notoriety, the you know, the money,

1592
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 1: like all that stuff can just go into something that

1593
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: seems slightly more useful because I like saying yes to

1594
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 1: those types of opportunities. But it's like, but it feels

1595
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: kind of you know, it's not like I'm saving up

1596
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: for a yi, you know, like I don't I don't

1597
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: need that, and so it's nice to have like a

1598
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: reason to to funnel it all into something.

1599
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awesome. And then I know, you just launched

1600
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 2: your podcast Planet Visionaries as well, right with yeah Planet Initiative.

1601
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, actually we didn't just like we launched the

1602
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: new season. I've done I think three or four seasons

1603
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 1: with them now, but yeah, that's like one of my

1604
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 1: favorite you know, we're i mean, you know, like interviewing

1605
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: people that are interesting and yeah, so with Planet of Visionaries,

1606
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 1: I'm interviewing. Uh, you know, conservation is like marine bolag

1607
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 1: is like basically people who are doing something useful in

1608
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: the world. And every time I have one of the conversations,

1609
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:35,959
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you come out of it feeling yeah,

1610
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 1: you know, inspired, Yeah, like recharged in a good way.

1611
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: It's kind of nice. Yeah.

1612
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 2: And so how you pick Are those people you know,

1613
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 2: in a friendly with or are they people that you're

1614
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 2: just fascinated by.

1615
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: You know, they're they're often people working through the rollers

1616
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: Perpetual Plant Initiative. Uh, these rolics actually just funds a

1617
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: surprising amount of conservation work like that. People don't really

1618
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: know that, but uh, but so a lot of them.

1619
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: You know, somebody like Sylviet Earl, who's like her deepness,

1620
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: she's a she's like the Jane goodall of the ocean.

1621
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 1: She's been a Rolex testimony since like nineteen fifty years,

1622
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 1: so I don't know, she's like I think she's ninety.

1623
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: She's still like scuba diving and you know, creating marine

1624
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: protected areas around the world, trying to like help protect

1625
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: the ocean. And so interviewing people like her, you know,

1626
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 1: they're just like part of this whole whole world, and

1627
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: then occasionally I interview folks like I've interviewed a few

1628
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: like grantee partners from the Huna Foundation, like some of

1629
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 1: the organizations that we've supported doing community soul around the world.

1630
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: I've interviewed for them just to highlight the type of

1631
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:33,479
Speaker 1: projects that they're doing and why those tubs of projects matter.

1632
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:35,919
Speaker 1: I mean, we're kind of always looking for good guests,

1633
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: if you know, you know somebody absolutely. Yeah.

1634
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 2: I was actually because I became friendly with Munia recently

1635
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 2: from Rolex and she was telling me about the show

1636
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 2: and everything that they were trying to do with the

1637
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 2: So I actually, there's there's a guest. I always his

1638
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 2: name escapes me, but I met him recently and he

1639
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 2: was fascinating. So I left to Yeah, I thought of

1640
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 2: him to Munia too, and I was like, oh, I'm

1641
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 2: going to see Alex. I'll just tell you.

1642
01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were doing you know, the first season or

1643
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 1: two is like roll somembassadors and things like that, and

1644
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 1: then you're kind of like, well, there are only so

1645
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 1: many and it's like and so you started like broadening

1646
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 1: it out a little bit. We're kind of like, really,

1647
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: anybody who's doing inspiring work protecting the planet. Yes, it

1648
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 1: is worth. I mean in many of the guests that

1649
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: I talked to, it's like it's interesting because they're doing

1650
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: conservation in a slightly different way or you know, a

1651
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 1: slightly different approach. I don't know. I like to think

1652
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: of the interviews as like kind of mini little Ted

1653
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: talks or something where it's like, what's the little nugget

1654
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: that you're trying to give to the audience, Like like,

1655
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 1: in what way can they see the world differently as

1656
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 1: a result of having listened to this? So I don't know,

1657
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: it's it's it's pretty fun, fun interviews.

1658
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 2: I mean, as you know, yeah, absolutely absolutely, yeah, I'd

1659
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 2: love to. I'd love to. I wanted to ask you, Alex,

1660
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 2: I wanted to share one more thing, but I'm going

1661
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 2: to wait for it to come through actually because I

1662
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 2: believe we have this, So I'm just waiting.

1663
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: For it if a good time. Okay, thank you so much,

1664
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 1: thank you.

1665
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 3: Wow, so pro I need to tell it proper, like

1666
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 3: where's so we had to do it for moments like this,

1667
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 3: so Alex, you know, we were so excited about what

1668
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 3: you're doing. And you know, as I said, I'm such

1669
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 3: a fan from before that it's it's really a joy

1670
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 3: to learn. It's I find it so refreshing when I

1671
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 3: sit with someone who kind of bursts every myth that

1672
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 3: you have about the thing, right, like I think we

1673
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 3: all have certain It's like what you said, the questions

1674
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 3: you usually get asked, or the kind of hype that's

1675
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 3: built up around this is how this person breaks through

1676
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 3: fear and what they do. And then when I sit

1677
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:34,480
Speaker 3: with you, I'm like, oh, I love how the way

1678
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 3: you approach it is flow is play, is real, is

1679
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 3: life is joy?

1680
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 1: Is you know?

1681
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 2: And and that's not what I would know or anticipate

1682
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 2: if I didn't sit with you deeply and have a casual

1683
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 2: conversation with you.

1684
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's extreme.

1685
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love that it isn't like you know,

1686
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 2: it's beautiful when you're when your bubble gets burst and

1687
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 2: the myth breaks because you get to understand a human

1688
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 2: on a deeper level. And so we'd reached out to

1689
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 2: your mentor Tommy, who'd sent a letter for you.

1690
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: Tommy sent a letter. Yes, oh my goodness.

1691
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 2: Would you like to read it? Would you like me

1692
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 2: to read it out loud?

1693
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: What would you prefer? What's better for you? You should

1694
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 1: read it. It's for you, so I'll read it to you. Yeah,

1695
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 1: so he says. And all we asked him was for

1696
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: a letter for you because you were coming on the show.

1697
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:22,480
Speaker 1: Oh I'm already do I need to leave deeply uncomfortable,

1698
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 1: all right, So this is what Tommy said. He's a

1699
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 1: dear Alex.

1700
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 2: When this podcast asked me to write you a heartfelt letter,

1701
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 2: I had to laugh. A Few things make one of

1702
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 2: the most mentally strong men in the world squirm more

1703
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 2: than public affection, especially from someone close. But I'm doing

1704
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 2: it anyway because people should know the man behind the

1705
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 2: fearless facade. When I climb with you, mountain shrink to

1706
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 2: half their size. At first, I thought it was your

1707
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 2: systems and efficiency, but over the years I've realized it's

1708
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 2: something deeper. You're unwavering belief in a positive outcome more

1709
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 2: than free soloing. That is your superpower. When you believe

1710
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 2: things will work out, they almost always do. You've helped

1711
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 2: me see that so much of what feels heavy or

1712
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 2: scary in life is mostly imagination. Whenever I come to

1713
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 2: you with relationship worries or questions about how my kids

1714
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:15,640
Speaker 2: are growing up, you reframe things until they suddenly feel manageable,

1715
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 2: And every time you've been right, you bring humor and

1716
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 2: lightness to places no one else could, helping the people

1717
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:27,480
Speaker 2: around you believe they cannot only survive, but thrive. Your bluntness,

1718
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 2: your unfiltered honesty, might feel harsh coming from someone else,

1719
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 2: but from you, it builds trust. Everyone close to you

1720
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 2: understands it comes from a genuine desire to see people

1721
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 2: reach their potential. I also wish the world understood your generosity.

1722
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 2: You create abundance in everything you do and then give

1723
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 2: it away to friends, to family, to everyone around you.

1724
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 2: We come from a culture that values obscurity, one that

1725
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 2: assumes fame diluteses intention. Maybe that's why calling you an

1726
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 2: entertainer feels strange. But you've shown that you can go

1727
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 2: big without losing who you are, and if the world

1728
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 2: is going to be entertained by anyone, I'm glad it's you.

1729
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 2: Knowing you and calling you a friend has been one

1730
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 2: of the greatest lucky events of my life. I love you, man, Tommy.

1731
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 1: That's that's really nice. I was kind of like, did

1732
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 1: he write this? And then as he got into I

1733
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 1: was like, oh, no, he wrote this. Yeah, I'm like, no,

1734
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 1: that's incredible. I'm like, that's the nicest thing. That's so nice.

1735
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:28,680
Speaker 2: It nearly prot is to my eyes reading that's the

1736
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 2: first time I already.

1737
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 1: I've not seen it before now either it's yeah the time,

1738
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 1: I am shocked, and you know, I'm like, what a

1739
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:37,719
Speaker 1: nice man. I wonder when he wrote this. He actually

1740
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:39,439
Speaker 1: stopped by her house just the other day. They were

1741
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 1: driving for family Thanksgiving and so they just stopped for

1742
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 1: a night, just a camp along the way. I'm like, oh, so,

1743
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 1: how did you climbing? I mean, well, he was one

1744
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 1: of my childhood hero is, Like he's one of the

1745
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,719
Speaker 1: most famous climbers in the in the world. And even

1746
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, you know, he was he

1747
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 1: was one of the best climbers ever. So I always

1748
01:10:58,200 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 1: looked up to him. It was like, oh, one day,

1749
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: you know you like him. And then at some point

1750
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:03,760
Speaker 1: we just met on the road, you know, both like

1751
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:06,600
Speaker 1: two climbers, and I think we were maybe in Squamishes

1752
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 1: Spun British Columbia. But then but then I sort of

1753
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 1: sought him out for a couple of climbing objectives and

1754
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 1: then once we started climbing together, it was like game

1755
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 1: on well.

1756
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:16,799
Speaker 2: I loved what he said about you having the ability

1757
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 2: to reframe things, and would you say that to your

1758
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:21,719
Speaker 2: Super Bowl.

1759
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I think that's just normal. I don't know.

1760
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 1: I was like, why I build it up is bigger

1761
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 1: than it needs to be. Yeah, yeah, it's funny, he said.

1762
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 1: He does jokingly call me an entertainer because I've done

1763
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 1: TV shows and things now, so he's always like, oh,

1764
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:37,519
Speaker 1: you're an entertainer, and I'm like, no, because you know,

1765
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:39,640
Speaker 1: I'd like to at least think of myself as like

1766
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:41,760
Speaker 1: more of a high performance athlete or whatever. I used

1767
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 1: to jokingly call myself a high performance clothing model because

1768
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:46,679
Speaker 1: when you're a professional climber, it basically means you're sponsored

1769
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: by a parel companies. And so I was like, oh,

1770
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 1: I'm a clothing model, but I send you know, like

1771
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 1: I go hard. And now Tommy's like, oh, you're an entertainer.

1772
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:55,600
Speaker 1: You're just like a TV personality, and I'm like no,

1773
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: but send it, you know. But the thing is, I

1774
01:11:58,040 --> 01:11:59,560
Speaker 1: don't mind being a TV person as long as you

1775
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:01,280
Speaker 1: can actually the thing you're trying to do, which is

1776
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 1: like climb hard, climb well, like do things that you're

1777
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 1: proud of Yeah. Absolutely, but Tommy, what a sweet man?

1778
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 1: What else tuck out to you? What else is? What

1779
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 1: else is well resonated with you? Yeah? No, no, no, it's

1780
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:16,599
Speaker 1: just all.

1781
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:19,719
Speaker 2: It's a beautiful live It's very heart felt for a

1782
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 2: man who knew you were going to run out of

1783
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 2: the room.

1784
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:26,360
Speaker 1: When you I know. That's actually yeah that Yeah, nothing

1785
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 1: makes me swirm like public affection essentially if somebody class

1786
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 1: that's so true. Yeah, no, I'm so I'm so impressed

1787
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 1: that he wrote this. Well you can keep it. Oh yeah, no,

1788
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:38,479
Speaker 1: like I should put this on my wall.

1789
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:40,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, yeah, absolutely, frame.

1790
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 1: Like what a nice uh holding well do you do

1791
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 1: that for guests? Occasionally? Very read? We don't do it

1792
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 1: for everyone for the right time a guest, Yeah, for

1793
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 1: the right guest, yeah.

1794
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 2: Who he feels at an exciting moment doing something new,

1795
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 2: doing something fresh, like interesting, but it feels right.

1796
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:58,679
Speaker 1: That's such a nice that's such a nice idea.

1797
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 2: It's one of my it's one of my favorite things

1798
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 2: to do because I feel like, like you said, like

1799
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 2: I think in our day to day we love people,

1800
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:08,719
Speaker 2: but we don't say it like that. And you don't

1801
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 2: get many chances in life to reflect and so I know,

1802
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 2: I love reflecting on people, and I've appreciated when people

1803
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 2: have done it for me, and it's yeah, it's one

1804
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 2: of my favorite things to do. I have this activity

1805
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 2: I do with when I'm doing workshops in companies sometimes

1806
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 2: where I'll take a group of leaders who, despite achieving

1807
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 2: great things, their biggest worries that they're bad parents because

1808
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 2: they're so busy. And we always have their kids write

1809
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 2: a note to them and it's stuck under their chair

1810
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 2: and it's really special because.

1811
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 1: That Yeah, and you also get to see what kids

1812
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 1: actually value versus what.

1813
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:43,680
Speaker 2: You think they value. So you're thinking, like, oh, when

1814
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 2: I bought them that big gift, when I took them

1815
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,639
Speaker 2: on that fancy vacation, it's like that kid just remembered

1816
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 2: You've read a story to them before they went to

1817
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 2: bed last night, Like that was the win. The win

1818
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:55,639
Speaker 2: wasn't some you know, grand gesture or some big event

1819
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:58,640
Speaker 2: in their life. It was this tiny moment where you

1820
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:02,799
Speaker 2: actually present. But Alex, oh, co on, you're gonna.

1821
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 1: Say something, I'm just like, no, I'm so touched. It's funny.

1822
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:06,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I just read I think like

1823
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 1: a mark. Yeah, and someone one of my friends are

1824
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: just asking me like, oh, what are your takeaway is,

1825
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 1: like what do you feel like you gain from And

1826
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:13,599
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, there's a lot you know around

1827
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 1: like kindness, compassion, things like you know, caring service, like

1828
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 1: all these types of like feel I was like, you know,

1829
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:20,919
Speaker 1: I think I have a lot of room for improvement

1830
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 1: all of those things, like, you know, because there's a

1831
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 1: lot in the book that I'm kind of like, yeah, no,

1832
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:25,960
Speaker 1: this this is fine. I got that. And then you know,

1833
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 1: basically the whole second half of the book, I'm kind

1834
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 1: of like hmmm, like that's that's not quite my sweet spot.

1835
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 1: And we're like, yeah, like there's there's something to be

1836
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 1: learned there, just like oh it's yeah, just give something

1837
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 1: to think about. Yeah, like sweet Tommy.

1838
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for sharing that, Alex. We end every

1839
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 2: episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions

1840
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:49,719
Speaker 2: have to be answered in one sentence, and so, Alex Honold,

1841
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 2: these are your final five. The first question is what

1842
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 2: is the best advice you've ever heard or received.

1843
01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 1: I'll just go for it. Just try that's my advice.

1844
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:02,000
Speaker 1: It's worked for you. Yeah, yeah, I mean this is

1845
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:04,439
Speaker 1: more than one sentence. Six, but yeah. I mean it's

1846
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 1: better to try something and fail than to not try it.

1847
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, does second question? Does failure even? Do you even

1848
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:13,160
Speaker 2: ever think about failure?

1849
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 1: Well, a failure means death, and yeah, you think about

1850
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 1: it a lot. No, I don't know. Can I give

1851
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:25,840
Speaker 1: more than one sentence? Yeah, I mean yeah, because it's

1852
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 1: interesting because in climbing failure, like basically, as a climber,

1853
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: you fail all the time, NonStop, Like is the climber,

1854
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 1: You basically try projects and you fail on them over

1855
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: and over and over until the one time you succeed,

1856
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 1: and then as soon as you succeed, you move on

1857
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:39,120
Speaker 1: to the next thing. And so like yesterday, I failed

1858
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 1: on a project that I've been working on on and

1859
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 1: off for like five or six years or something. I've

1860
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:44,720
Speaker 1: been trying it forever. It's like my life brudge, and

1861
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: I almost did it yesterday, and hopefully I'll do it

1862
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 1: on Sunday, which is the next day I get to

1863
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:52,719
Speaker 1: go back there. But basically I will spend years, literally years,

1864
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 1: failing on something and then I'll do it once, which

1865
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:58,400
Speaker 1: will represent about, you know, thirteen minutes of high performance activity,

1866
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 1: where like try really hard me less than that. I'm

1867
01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:02,559
Speaker 1: not sure how long it takes to climb. But it's

1868
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 1: like in the minutes and then after you know, years

1869
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 1: of failure, I'll have six minutes of success and then

1870
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 1: I'll move on to the next thing. It's like, so

1871
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 1: as a climber, it's like you don't really define it

1872
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 1: as success and failure because you literally you spend all

1873
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:14,719
Speaker 1: your time failing.

1874
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Again they exposure therapy.

1875
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you're just always failing. But that's the

1876
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 1: whole point. The whole point is you go out and

1877
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 1: try things that are hard for you. So by that definition,

1878
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 1: you're not failing, you're just going climbing, Like climbing is failing. Yeah.

1879
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 2: Question number three, what's something that you used to value

1880
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:31,120
Speaker 2: that you don't value anymore?

1881
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: Sort of saying, I mean maybe like the public acclaim

1882
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 1: to some extent. I think you know, when you're alone

1883
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: in your van, you're kind of like, I just want

1884
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 1: to like be known. Basically as you can get laid,

1885
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:44,280
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, I just want to meet somebody whatever.

1886
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 1: And then once you actually have something that you're like,

1887
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:47,400
Speaker 1: I don't really need all that.

1888
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 2: But how long did you spend in that van?

1889
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 1: I think I live in the van twelve years. Twelve years?

1890
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:56,439
Speaker 1: Yeahs and yeah, I mean I had some girlfriends on

1891
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:58,920
Speaker 1: off and various sayings and yeah, but basically lived in

1892
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:01,840
Speaker 1: the van from at twenty to thirty. Yeah, maybe a

1893
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 1: little more than that.

1894
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 2: Were you happy then?

1895
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:05,600
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, it's great, But I just knew that I

1896
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to do that my whole life.

1897
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 2: What was it that made you happy then? But knew

1898
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:10,200
Speaker 2: it wasn't What you are?

1899
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 1: Living in a van is amazing when all you're trying

1900
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:16,919
Speaker 1: to do is climb at at your limit, but barring

1901
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 1: even the obvious, like you'll lose motivation, you just don't care.

1902
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:22,560
Speaker 1: You know, after ten or twenty years of doing something NonStop,

1903
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:24,320
Speaker 1: full tilt, you're like, you know, do I need to

1904
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 1: do another twenty years of that? And I knew that

1905
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 1: one day I had one family, and you know, it's

1906
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:31,800
Speaker 1: like my aspirations to diet eighty with grandkids around me,

1907
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 1: and it's hard to do that if you live alone

1908
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 1: in a van. That is that really the dream? Yeah? Yeah,

1909
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:38,599
Speaker 1: I think so. That's the way some of my grandparents died,

1910
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that's a great way to go.

1911
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 2: Would that make you feel content? Like, if you were

1912
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:46,360
Speaker 2: looking back on your life at aight, what do you

1913
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 2: think would stand out to you?

1914
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 1: Well, my grandma, my last grandma, died at ninety five,

1915
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 1: I think, you know, surrounded by family. I'm kind of like,

1916
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:57,320
Speaker 1: that's a good way to go, Like I would be

1917
01:17:57,479 --> 01:17:59,639
Speaker 1: delighted to have that, have that playoff.

1918
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful.

1919
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:06,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I named my daughter after my beloved grandmother. Oh really, yeah,

1920
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 1: I mean and really like, is there anything better? You know,

1921
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 1: it's like when you when you're dying of old age

1922
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:14,479
Speaker 1: surrounded by family and you had a good enough relationship

1923
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 1: with them that they're naming their children after you, Like

1924
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 1: great success and call it good.

1925
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Alex. Is there anything that I didn't ask you

1926
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 2: that you wish I did?

1927
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 1: No, I don't know, but I have all kinds of

1928
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 1: questions for you, but we can chat after it.

1929
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:29,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Alex. It's been such a joy getting

1930
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:32,720
Speaker 2: to know you. I feel like I totally got such

1931
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:35,360
Speaker 2: an education in what it really means to be fearless

1932
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 2: in a way that I didn't expect. And those are

1933
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:42,959
Speaker 2: my favorite types of conversations where I'm pleasantly surprised, blown away, inspired,

1934
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 2: and excited to see what you do on the twenty

1935
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 2: third of jan And even though you won't care, I'll

1936
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:51,479
Speaker 2: be really for you and I'm watching. But thank you

1937
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:52,920
Speaker 2: so much and I hope we can stay in touched.

1938
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 1: Oh no, I appreciate that. That's a total pleasure.

1939
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:57,320
Speaker 2: Thanks Alex, I appreciate that was awesome, man, Thank you

1940
01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:57,720
Speaker 2: so much.

1941
01:18:57,800 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 1: Great.

1942
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 2: If you love this podcast, you loved my episode with

1943
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 2: Lewis Hamilton. Lewis and I talk about why you should

1944
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 2: stop chasing society's definition of success and how to be

1945
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:13,160
Speaker 2: more intentional with your goals. You don't want to miss.

1946
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:14,639
Speaker 1: It like, it's not about being perfect.

1947
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:16,639
Speaker 2: It's about just every day, one step at a time,

1948
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 2: trying to be better, trying to do more. I'm learning

1949
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 2: a lot about myself, how to break myself down in

1950
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 2: order to be able to be better.