WEBVTT - A Tough Dynamic.  Lanhee Chen Talks to A&G 

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<v Speaker 1>I have a number of thoughts swimming in my slow

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<v Speaker 1>moving mind, trying to coalesce them into a theme. Four

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<v Speaker 1>major polls have come out in the last twenty four hours,

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<v Speaker 1>all with pretty high approval ratings for Joe Biden, the

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<v Speaker 1>highest being at fifty nine. He's somewhere in the low

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<v Speaker 1>to mid fifties. It would seem if you average out

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<v Speaker 1>these polls his uh, how do you like him personally

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<v Speaker 1>ratings or even higher than that, similar to the way

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<v Speaker 1>Barack Obama was. Barack Obama would would would poll really

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<v Speaker 1>well even if people didn't like some of his policies.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, if a policy would would do poorly in

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<v Speaker 1>a poll, his personal rating would still be pretty high.

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<v Speaker 1>People just liked him. Um uh, certainly a majority um.

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<v Speaker 1>And then Kevin McCarthy came out yesterday he's the leader

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<v Speaker 1>of the House for the Republicans, the minority party, and

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<v Speaker 1>said he has not talked with Joe Biden since Joe

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<v Speaker 1>Biden got inaugurated. Mitch McConnell said something similar a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of weeks ago. I don't know if that's changed. So

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<v Speaker 1>you got the the Republican leaders of the House and

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<v Speaker 1>the Senate have not talked with the president in three

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<v Speaker 1>months since he's been And I thought that was weird

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<v Speaker 1>at the time until I heard it pointed out from

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<v Speaker 1>a number of people that you know, maybe they haven't.

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<v Speaker 1>They kept it a secret. That's its own interesting story

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<v Speaker 1>in that they both sides would get killed by their base.

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<v Speaker 1>The lefties would hate it if they found out Biden

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<v Speaker 1>was talking with McConnell or McCarthy, and the and the

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<v Speaker 1>hardcore right would hate it if McCarthy and McConnell were

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<v Speaker 1>talking to Joe Biden. How far? How dare you even

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<v Speaker 1>dignify his position? I'm not sure I can buy that.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's just maybe a child would think that.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's the weird government works. Well, maybe we should

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<v Speaker 1>talk to somebody super smart about that, whether or not

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<v Speaker 1>that why that is is that where we are now

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<v Speaker 1>where you can't even be seen talking with the president

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<v Speaker 1>as the leader of the House of the Senate on

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<v Speaker 1>the other point, in the other party, is that so damaging?

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<v Speaker 1>Is that what's going on? Let's talk to Lani chat

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<v Speaker 1>David and Diane Stephy, fellow in American Public Policy Studies

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<v Speaker 1>at the Hoover Institution and the director of Domestic Policy

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<v Speaker 1>studies at Stanford University and a regular contributor at Seeing

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<v Speaker 1>an Opinion. Lonnie, how are you. I'm doing well. Thank

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<v Speaker 1>you for having me well. Congratulations on being super smart

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<v Speaker 1>is declared by Jack Well. I got a buddy who

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<v Speaker 1>listens in Salt Lake City all the time, and he

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<v Speaker 1>was raving about you from last week. He really enjoys

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<v Speaker 1>your segment and yeah, because you're super smart, appreciate that.

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that. And uh, you know, every once in

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<v Speaker 1>a while, every every every every once in a while,

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<v Speaker 1>I sort of take that as a compliment every once

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<v Speaker 1>in a while, sort of thinking, I don't know, are

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<v Speaker 1>people really trying to say that, are really trying to

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<v Speaker 1>say that? Is it a compliment or a backhanded compliment? Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>Come on, now, this is a straight up compliment. So

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<v Speaker 1>what do you think of Jack's analysis of why the

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<v Speaker 1>president hasn't spoken to the two ranking Republicans in the legislature. Well, no, look,

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<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of that makes sense. We are

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<v Speaker 1>in a time and a place when our politics are

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<v Speaker 1>very polarized, and people who expect political purity, and if

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<v Speaker 1>you are seen sort of consorting with the enemy or

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<v Speaker 1>consorting with the other side, it can be held against you. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I also think it's the case that there probably are

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<v Speaker 1>conversations going on at the staff level on a on

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<v Speaker 1>a regular basis, you know, even though the actual political

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<v Speaker 1>principles haven't spoken. I do think that there are things

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<v Speaker 1>going on. I mean, there have to be for the

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<v Speaker 1>machinery of government to keep going. But the image of

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<v Speaker 1>one leader from one party talking to a leader from

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<v Speaker 1>another party in a very public way, or even by

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<v Speaker 1>the way, if it was a private conversation and got leaked,

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<v Speaker 1>I can understand how in this political environment you would

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<v Speaker 1>see both sides not necessarily wanting to have that as

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<v Speaker 1>a as a as a as something that could come

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<v Speaker 1>out in public. Have you read any of the John

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<v Speaker 1>Bayner book. I've been reading it, and I don't usually

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<v Speaker 1>read those kind of things because I find them boring

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<v Speaker 1>most time. This one's pretty damned interesting. You know. I

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<v Speaker 1>have not read it. I've only read the excerpts of it,

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<v Speaker 1>including the the you know, little aside he has about

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<v Speaker 1>Ted Cruz. But I haven't. You know, John Bayner is

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<v Speaker 1>such a colorful guy. I am sure there are so

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<v Speaker 1>many entertaining stories in that book. Perhaps at some point

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<v Speaker 1>I will, but it just it was on my mind

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<v Speaker 1>because he talks about working with Barack Obama and there

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<v Speaker 1>he was Speaker of the House for the Republicans, and

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<v Speaker 1>how much he had to work with Barack Obama. And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I just I don't I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if we can do that now, if if anybody, anybody

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<v Speaker 1>works with anybody. Um. Uh. Baynard does mention early in

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<v Speaker 1>his book about how good he thinks Nancy Pelosi is

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<v Speaker 1>at her job and and and how smart Mitch McConnell

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<v Speaker 1>is and all that. But man, if people aren't talking

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<v Speaker 1>to each other, God, I don't know how we get

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<v Speaker 1>anything done. Well, It's just it's absurd. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>just I can't even contemplate people who think like that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it just goes to if you go over

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<v Speaker 1>the years and you see how many but let's just

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<v Speaker 1>take Republicans for example, how many Republicans have gotten into

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<v Speaker 1>trouble for uh, you know, working with Democrats or the

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<v Speaker 1>perception being that there are rhinos, you know, Republicans in

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<v Speaker 1>name only because they have a conversation with the other side. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know that that point of view is is relatively common,

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<v Speaker 1>I would say, um, you know, and I've seen it

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<v Speaker 1>all the time. The difficult part of that, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>is that really to get anything done, you kind of

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<v Speaker 1>have to have those conversations. And there are a whole

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<v Speaker 1>host of issues that I don't think are particularly ideological. Unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 1>they do get turned into sort of ideological part of

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<v Speaker 1>the issues by by one side or another. I would say,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, with infrastructure, what's happened now is because the

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<v Speaker 1>Biden administration is put forward a plan that's essentially bastardized

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<v Speaker 1>the definition of infrastructure, it's it's made it more political, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, if we were just talking about roads and

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<v Speaker 1>bridges and airports, I think that's a nine ten issue

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<v Speaker 1>of Americans regardless of party, say yeah, let's do what

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<v Speaker 1>we can to improve our roads and improve our bridges

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<v Speaker 1>and do all that stuff. But the minute you start

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<v Speaker 1>including things like hey, you know, you you can't necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>choose whether to join a union, or hey, we want

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<v Speaker 1>to have a massive expansion of of medicaid, or hey

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<v Speaker 1>we want to you know, put all these other things

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<v Speaker 1>into the bill, then it starts to get the issue

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<v Speaker 1>gets more polarized, and you can understand why. Then it's

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<v Speaker 1>harder for the two sides to get together. So I

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<v Speaker 1>think some of that dynamic, unfortunately, is endemic to our

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<v Speaker 1>politics today. Each of the Hoover Institution, Stanford University on

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<v Speaker 1>the line. So I guess we talked about this a

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<v Speaker 1>fair amount, but I'd love to hear your take on this.

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<v Speaker 1>Given the unbelievable logistical and humanitarian crisis on the border

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<v Speaker 1>right now, why is there not a huge cry on

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<v Speaker 1>both sides to get together and fix the immigration system?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my goodness. Immigration is quite possibly the most polarized

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<v Speaker 1>issue out there. I mean, we have seen over the

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<v Speaker 1>years so many efforts, you know, amongst people to try

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<v Speaker 1>and get together and figure out, hey, can we do

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<v Speaker 1>this little piece or can we solve that piece of it,

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<v Speaker 1>and repeatedly over and over and over again, it just

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't happened. Uh. And there are things that have become

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<v Speaker 1>so polarized. I mean, I'll give you, guys, one example.

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<v Speaker 1>The concept of border security. Okay, this should be there

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<v Speaker 1>should be very little debate in my mind about the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that we need to have a secure southern border.

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<v Speaker 1>We need to do what we can to put in,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's physical barriers, technological barriers, funding the US Border Patrol,

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<v Speaker 1>making sure that we're doing everything we need to do

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<v Speaker 1>to have a secure southern border that has somehow become

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<v Speaker 1>a really, really controversial issue. And I cannot see the

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<v Speaker 1>life of me understand why. You know, and in the

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<v Speaker 1>same way as hey, look, we I think we want

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<v Speaker 1>to have an immigration system that allows people who are

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<v Speaker 1>able to contribute to the United States, to our economy,

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<v Speaker 1>to our to the fabric of our country. We want

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<v Speaker 1>to welcome people in and have a rational immigration system.

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<v Speaker 1>That's you know something that I think again, if you

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<v Speaker 1>pulled the Americans, I would say the broad majority want both.

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<v Speaker 1>But somehow we cannot get together and get things done.

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<v Speaker 1>It's incredibly frustrating. Yeah. Well, back to the Baynard book briefly. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>there are a number of interesting segments in there, including

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<v Speaker 1>where he tells about a representative from Alaska putting a

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<v Speaker 1>knife to his throat he claims in the House floor,

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<v Speaker 1>but whether or not that happened or not. But at

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<v Speaker 1>one point Baynard talks about Michelle Bachman coming to him.

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<v Speaker 1>She was a representative from Minnesota who ran for president

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<v Speaker 1>for a cup of coffee, and she wants to get

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<v Speaker 1>on some committee and she's brand new. He says, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna put you on there, and she says, okay, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I'm gonna have to go to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to Russia, Limball and Sean Hannity and go on all

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<v Speaker 1>those shows and say that you won't let me be

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<v Speaker 1>on there. And Baynard says in his book, she thought

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<v Speaker 1>she had all the power and I'm the speaker of

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<v Speaker 1>the house. Turns out she was right, is basically what

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<v Speaker 1>Bayner says. And and he hadn't realized that things had

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<v Speaker 1>changed that way obviously. If that's the dynamic on both sides, well,

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<v Speaker 1>how how are you ever going to get anywhere well? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>And and that's the thing I mean about social media

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<v Speaker 1>and about just the way we consume media. Now, everybody

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<v Speaker 1>consumed the media that they agree with, right, And if

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<v Speaker 1>you have a presence on those media outlet, you're incredibly

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<v Speaker 1>powerful in some ways, much more powerful than whatever formal

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<v Speaker 1>title of positions someone else has. And I think Bayner

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<v Speaker 1>probably realized that as he went on, you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>think others, uh, you know, realized that as they go

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<v Speaker 1>on that formal position, formal place in the Congress. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not like it was in the nineteen sixties and the

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<v Speaker 1>seventies and and even the eighties when the Speaker of

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<v Speaker 1>the House had a tremendous amount of power. Now it's

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<v Speaker 1>more like wrangling cats, and and any one of those

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<v Speaker 1>cats can decide to go off, and you know, give

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<v Speaker 1>an interview on Fox News. They can blow you up

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<v Speaker 1>at any given time. So it's a tough dynamic out there.

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<v Speaker 1>To be sure, we want to he Chan of Hoover Institutions, Stanford.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I haven't run a little late, but I've

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<v Speaker 1>got to ask you this, the the the court packing

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<v Speaker 1>discussion that's going on right now. You actually had a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of just America's most despicable legislators my words, not yours,

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<v Speaker 1>trotting out the idea of packing the Supreme Court. We're

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<v Speaker 1>talking earlier on he about the idea of you just

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<v Speaker 1>go ahead and state these crazy ideas, and you you

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<v Speaker 1>ask for a vote, You put him in front of

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<v Speaker 1>a committee, knowing that they will fail miserably, but knowing

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<v Speaker 1>now it's part of the national discussion. Is there anything

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<v Speaker 1>conservatives can do um to counter that. I mean, because

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<v Speaker 1>the temptation is to say that will never pass, it

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<v Speaker 1>will never get through, and not pay attention to it.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we need to be yelling about it. I don't.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think? Yeah, I mean, look, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a serious problem. The the implication of what the folks

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<v Speaker 1>who want to pack the court are doing is that

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<v Speaker 1>because they can't have their way, because they can't have

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<v Speaker 1>the ideological composition of the court they want, they want

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<v Speaker 1>to change the fundamental nature of the institution. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a tough argument to carry, but I do think

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<v Speaker 1>you're right. Conservatives have to articulate why the rule of

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<v Speaker 1>law is important, why the current composition of the court

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<v Speaker 1>is important, and why it is that this is this

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<v Speaker 1>is about elections mattering, right, I mean, they can complain

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<v Speaker 1>all they want about President Trump having put you know,

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<v Speaker 1>several Supreme Court justices in the court. The reality of

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<v Speaker 1>elections have consequence is now Biden is going to have

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<v Speaker 1>his opportunity. This is how American politics work. This is

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<v Speaker 1>not a you know, you you you cry over spilled milk,

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<v Speaker 1>and you turn around and go home and you decide

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to rage against the system. That's essentially what

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<v Speaker 1>we have for those who want to change the composition

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<v Speaker 1>of the court. So I think it is important for

0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.040
<v Speaker 1>those who believe, hey, look you know, packing the court

0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.280
<v Speaker 1>not the right idea. To say that very loudly and

0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.760
<v Speaker 1>to make it very clear why that's the problem. Lan

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<v Speaker 1>Chen David and Diane Stephy, Fellow in American Public Policy

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<v Speaker 1>Studies at the Hoover Institution and Director of Domestic Policy

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<v Speaker 1>Studies at Stanford University. Lani, great to talk to you. Thanks,

0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:29.880
<v Speaker 1>have a great weekend. Thank you too. I'm looking at

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<v Speaker 1>some of the polls from Gallup. You know, he was

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<v Speaker 1>talking about how how people feel about it, and he

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<v Speaker 1>thinks most people would be an agreement on strengthening security

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<v Speaker 1>at the border. I'm looking at this from Gallup. Please

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<v Speaker 1>tell me whether you strongly favored favor opposers strongly opposed

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<v Speaker 1>each of the following proposals. Hiring significantly more border patrol

0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.360
<v Speaker 1>agents and this is from last two I guess it's

0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.400
<v Speaker 1>two years ago, out nineteen. I like that question because

0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:58.440
<v Speaker 1>it's it's very practical, as opposed to fuzzy ideological hiring

0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.880
<v Speaker 1>significantly more board border patrol agents, not just more, but

0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:09.079
<v Speaker 1>significantly more. Strongly favor forty one percent favor here a's

0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:13.480
<v Speaker 1>seventy two percent favor or strongly favor that you wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>get that from watching the news, would you know absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>not build bridges, not walls. Yeah, we're gonna bring We're

0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:21.800
<v Speaker 1>gonna build walls, and then we're gonna hire guys to

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<v Speaker 1>guard them. He said, Amica, you think with a seventy

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<v Speaker 1>percent issue you can get something done. But I think

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<v Speaker 1>people are misled by Twitter. Politicians are, and people are.

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<v Speaker 1>People are misled by Twitter and cable news and talk

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<v Speaker 1>radio and everything else into uh not knowing what America

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<v Speaker 1>really thinks about things.