1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back 5 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: so great to have you here back for another episode 7 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: as we, of course break down the psychology of our 8 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: twenties today, I have another bonus episode for you if 9 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,319 Speaker 1: you are new to this series. Our bonus episodes are 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 1: our smaller, bite sized episodes that seek to break down 11 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: and debunk certain famous psychology theories or pseudo scientific ideas 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: you may see a lot online or hear everybody from 13 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: your mum to your best friend to the guy in 14 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: the train talking about. Basically, this series is It's MythBusters, 15 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: but for psychology and in podcast form. We've done the 16 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: truth about dopamine. We've done personality tests, narcissism flow states 17 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: whether the frontal lobe actually develops at twenty five, and 18 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: today we are doing Maslow's hierarchy of needs and why 19 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: our understanding of it is nowhere near where it needs 20 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: to be, and also why the modern day depiction of 21 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: Maslow's hierarchy is actually incredibly inaccurate, maybe even false. It's 22 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: a huge episode. I'm not gonna waste any more time 23 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: talking about things that aren't Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Let's 24 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: jump straight into it. If you have a psychology background, 25 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: even casually, if you have dabbled in the self help space, 26 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: I think it's safe to assume you have come across 27 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: the hierarchy of needs and the hierarchy of needs. Maslow's 28 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: hierarchy of needs was formed from his major work that 29 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: he published, which was a theory of human motivation. Even 30 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: if you don't know what I'm talking about by name, 31 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: you have seen an image of this. You have seen 32 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: an image of this in your career counselor's office, in 33 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: a science textbook. On Instagram, it's usually represented as a 34 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,399 Speaker 1: pyramid with five layers, and it's built on a simple idea. 35 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: Before you can focus on becoming your fuller self, you 36 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: need to satisfy the most fundamental human needs, which sit 37 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: at the base of the pyramid, and then you work 38 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: your way up. Now, this theory was developed by Abraham Maslow. 39 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: He's an American psychologist, and he first kind of put 40 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:43,399 Speaker 1: this together. In the nineteen forties, Maslow famously practiced a 41 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: form of psychology called humanistic psychology, which prioritizes the push 42 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: towards human flourishing and self realization. And this hierarchy is 43 00:02:54,520 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: like the cornerstone of this specific psychological discipline because it 44 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: suggests that needs at the bottom of the pyramid, whilst 45 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: seemingly basic, are essential for survival, and they're also not 46 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: examined enough by psychologists. And it basically instructed the academic 47 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: the psychological community, like, if you want to if you 48 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: want your patients, if you want humanity to thrive and 49 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: to be fulfilled, we need to pay more attention to 50 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: things like emotional security, financial security, just physical security, having food, 51 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: having water. And he basically he used this theory that 52 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: he came up with to describe a lot of things 53 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: and a lot of problems he saw in psychology and 54 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: with humanity, like the need to address poverty in order 55 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: to achieve greater psychological and intellectual thriving in society, why 56 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: we can't be creative or answer deep questions about life 57 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: until we're out of a place of survival, and why 58 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: emotional security matters just as much as physical safety or 59 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: financial security, and he also I don't think this was 60 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: his intention, but it's now very much used to explain 61 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: how the pathway to becoming your best self. If you 62 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: cannot picture the pyramid at this stage, I would highly 63 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: recommend a quick Google search of what it looks like, 64 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: because this episode will make a lot more sense with 65 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: that visual in mind. But let me walk you through 66 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: each layer, starting from the very bottom. So at the 67 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:32,239 Speaker 1: base of Maslow's pyramid are our physiological needs food, water, sleep, shelter, 68 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: basic things required to keep us alive. These are our 69 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,559 Speaker 1: core human survival needs. Once we have those, the theory 70 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: goes that we can then build our safety needs. Safety 71 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: needs is the next layer. It is essentially saying, once 72 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: survival is taken care of, we can begin to think 73 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: about long term security and physical safety. We can begin 74 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: to think about our long term health and about our routines, 75 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: kind of knowing that tomorrow isn't going to be completely uncertain. 76 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: The third level is love and belonging. Humans are social creatures, 77 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: so we need friendship. We need family, We need intimacy, community, 78 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: we need meaningful relationships. We need to feel connected to 79 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: other people and accepted by them, but that cannot be 80 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: prioritized until you know you know where your next meal 81 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: is going to come from, or until you feel safe. 82 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: So love and belonging is the third layer, and then 83 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: on top of that layer is esteem needs. This includes 84 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: self respect, confidence, achievement, recognition, essentially just this core belief 85 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: in this core sense that we matter and we have value. 86 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: It's really just about how we see ourselves and how 87 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: we feel we're being perceived. You can kind of see 88 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: at this stage how all these needs build on each 89 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: other until finally we get to the top of the pyramid, 90 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: which is self actualization. As I said I think previously, 91 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: this is the desire to fulfill our potential, to pursue 92 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: our perps, to express ourselves creatively intellectually, to grow as individuals, 93 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: and to become who we are capable of becoming. Interestingly, 94 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 1: later in life, Maslow actually replaced self actualization with self 95 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: transcendence as the highest human goal. I said, replaced. That's 96 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: not true. He basically added an additional layer, and that 97 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: additional layer or level was self transcendence. Self actualization to 98 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: him was rather individualistic, and he kind of took issue 99 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: with how people were interpreting it. The older that he got. Ultimately, 100 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: he realized that being able to be kind to others 101 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: our capacity for altruism, for empathy, to take our good 102 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: fortune and pass it on, being a good community member. 103 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: That is the peak of the human experience. Not feeling accomplished, 104 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: not feeling like you know yourself. There's two words that 105 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: Maslow loved to use to describe this, and they are 106 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: probably two of the hardest words I will ever say 107 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: on this podcast. Are you ready? The first is gemen. 108 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: Oh God, I'm gonna try again. Okay, jet one more time. 109 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: Gemen shaft didn't get full, probably butchered it. But it's 110 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: a German word. It means the psychological health that follows 111 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: from caring about others. And the next word is bodisatva. 112 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: It's a Buddhist notion that somebody who is fulfilled is 113 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: somebody who strives for compassion towards others. Apologies if I 114 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: got those wrong. I can never get my way around 115 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: complex words, and my Australian accent makes it so hard 116 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: to ever do anything that is not just like brutal, 117 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: simple English. But this idea of self transcendence, of body satva, 118 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: of I'm not even gonna try the German one is 119 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: something that textbooks don't include. I've never seen this spoken about, 120 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: at least when I was studying psychology eventually. And I'm 121 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: really drilling this point home because I think I just 122 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: think it's such an important point. It's all fine and 123 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: great to self actualize, but what do you even do 124 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: with that? Like, can you truly be fulfilled as an 125 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: accomplished individual alone in your ivory tower? If you are 126 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: not connected to other people, and if you do not 127 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: have empathy for other people that drives you to connect 128 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,119 Speaker 1: with them and give on to them and be kind 129 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: to them. That to Maslow was the most enlightened psychological state. 130 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: So that's one thing people don't know about Maslow's hierarchy 131 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: of needs. There is actually another special bonus layer, another 132 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: thing we need to achieve. The other thing we often 133 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: get wrong is that drum roll please. Maslow actually never 134 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: displayed or articulated his hierarchy as a pyramid. He very 135 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: rarely even referred to it as a hierarchy. According to 136 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,239 Speaker 1: the psychologist Scott Barry Koffman, who actually took on Maslow's 137 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: unpublished work and made it his mission to expand upon 138 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: these theories. This pyramid depiction that we are so familiar 139 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: with was actually created by management consultants who were trying 140 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: to sell a particular interpretation of the model. This depiction, 141 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: Kaufman argues, actually, he says, it's done a great disservice 142 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: to Maslow's original theory. It's really simplified it. In an 143 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: article by the British Psychological Society, they speak about how 144 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: the pyramid depiction suggests that our journey towards self actualization 145 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: self transcendence operates almost like a video game, and it 146 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: kind of leads people to assume that you level up 147 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: in life by unlocking the door from one layer to 148 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: the next, to the next, to the next. Maslow's conceptualization 149 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: was that each cluster of needs, your social needs, your 150 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: esteem needs, your survival needs are interdependent and they have 151 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:06,599 Speaker 1: to be experienced simultaneously. The hierarchy it needs to be 152 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: viewed in an integrated way. That is, each cluster of 153 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: needs rests upon each other, not in a consecutive way, 154 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: but in like a circular way. The other thing this 155 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: pyramid depiction doesn't explain well is how people can be 156 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: at different stages without every single stage before it being 157 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: entirely one hundred percent fulfilled. For example, people who don't 158 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: necessarily feel like they have great social support, who are 159 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: maybe really lonely, aren't connected to a family unit or 160 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: even to a community, can still go on and make 161 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: amazing art and care for others and reach those peaks 162 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: of self actualization and self transcendence even though there's social 163 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: needs from the outside don't seem to be being met. 164 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: You know, people who may not have enough food to eat, 165 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: who are struggling with poverty, still experience deep meaning, still 166 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: respect for themselves. You can kind of see how this 167 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: pyramid idea gets really tricky in that it gate keeps higher, 168 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: more purposeful functioning for only the rich, healthy, the happy, 169 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 1: the loved. And we know that's not the case, and 170 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: Maslow didn't want us to think that that was the case. 171 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: That you can only achieve this high high point if 172 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: everything is going right in your life, and if, like 173 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: you are, a certain type of individual who does not suffer, 174 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: has not suffered, has all their needs available to them. 175 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: I think that's a big issue I take with Maslow's 176 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: hierarchy is again that it can gate keep certain you 177 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: know higher again I said higher, but you know certain 178 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: seemingly more enlightened forms of functioning for people who have 179 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: it all together or who have had life handed to 180 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: them in a way that was already all together. And 181 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: you know, if you're experiencing poverty, if you're lonely, well 182 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: you haven't achieved that layer. So there's no possible way 183 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: that you can be self actualized, there's no possible way 184 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: that you can self transcend and care for others. When 185 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: we kind of know that's not true, well, we don't 186 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: kind of know like we do know. So that's another 187 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: kind of myth or misconception about Maslow's hierarchy, the very 188 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: fact that it is not a pyramid. He thought of 189 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: it as more circular. Let's now turn to the next misconception, 190 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: the next hidden part of history to do with Maslow's theory, 191 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: and perhaps the least reported of them all. Maslow was 192 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: in fact, not the original creator of this theory of 193 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: human flourishing. He wasn't even the second, he wasn't even 194 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: the third. He just gave it a name. He was 195 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: just the person who made it popular. Maslow's hierarchy was 196 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: actually inspired by the people of the Blackfoot Nation and 197 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: a Native American tribe I think they're in Montana. They're 198 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: in Canada. So in the nineteen thirties mid nineteen thirties, 199 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: Maslow went to this place called Sikseeker. It's like the 200 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: large reserve of the Blackfoot nation, and he spent six 201 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 1: months living there observing their social hierarchy. He kind of 202 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: learned their language. More specifically, he learnt about a way 203 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: of life they had which doesn't have an English word, 204 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: didn't have one then, doesn't have one now. But when 205 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: we compare it to Maslow's theory, it looks very similar. 206 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: He was deeply inspired by what he saw. According to 207 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: information from the University of Alberta, the Blackfoot model actually 208 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: was structured as the inverse to Maslow's eventual theory. So 209 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: for them, the base was self actualization. In their view, 210 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: we are each born into the world as a spark 211 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: of divinity with a greater purpose embedded in us. After 212 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: we're born, belonging occurs as like the tribe is there 213 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: to love and care for us, and through that love 214 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: is how we then receive basic survival needs and basic 215 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: survival resources. You know. It's how we get food, it's 216 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: how we get safety, it's how we get security. It's 217 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: how we tend to those needs. We then from all 218 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: that achieve community actualization or self transcendence or community transcendence 219 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: because due to this system, we're able to support everybody. 220 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: People contribute back to the community, and that leads to 221 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: something bigger that isn't even in Maslow's model, but is 222 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: still so crucial, which is something called cultural perpetuity. Each 223 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: member of the tribe, they say, is one day going 224 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: to be gone. So passing on knowledge and passing on 225 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: a deep truth about how the community operates and how 226 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: people take care of each other and in order to 227 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: maintain harmony, that is the ultimate goal, like so that 228 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: the community, the family, the culture of the society endures. 229 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: I don't know, I never learned that when I was 230 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: I never learned anything about that when I was studying 231 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: this originally, And I feel like it is such as 232 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: it's quite sad that that's not included, because I think 233 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: I think almost their theory is a little bit better 234 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: than Maslow's. It kind of makes more sense to me. 235 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: So I'll go into this a little bit further about 236 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: how this kind of came to be buried in the 237 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: history books. So Maslow originally arrived in six sker to 238 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: explore a different theory, and that was his theory of 239 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: social dominance and how order is maintained in society through 240 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: different means like violence, punishment, shame, but instead, as his 241 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: diaries and records which were produced by the University of 242 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: Montana show, he kind of just he discovered something he 243 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: didn't think he was going to see. He discovered astounding 244 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: levels of cooperation, minimal inequality, restorative justice, full bellies, high 245 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: levels of life satisfaction. As they say, he estimated that 246 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: eighty to ninety percent of the Blackfoot tribe had a 247 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: quality of self esteem that was only found in five 248 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: to ten percent of his population. And that's when he 249 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: came up with this idea like, look at what these 250 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: people have and look at what they can achieve. These 251 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: people are self actualizing because all of these needs are 252 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: being taken care of with and through the community. He 253 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: also witnessed a ceremony while he was there that is 254 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,239 Speaker 1: said to inspire have inspired his idea of self transcendence. 255 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: So during the giveaway, this is like a big ceremony 256 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: in Sikseka, members of the tribe arranged their tepis in 257 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: a circle and they publicly piled up all that they 258 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: had collected over the past year, and those were the 259 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: most possessions, you know, told stories of how they found them, 260 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: how they amassed them, how they made them, and then 261 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: they gave every last thing away to people who needed 262 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: it more. And to Maslow, that was self transcendence. This 263 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: community had reached a point where personal artifacts, personal things 264 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: didn't matter anymore if the community, if the community was suffering, 265 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: if the community wasn't need what is the point of 266 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: personal possessions. I think this is the most important thing 267 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: in this episode, because Maslow himself, as far as we know, 268 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: did not shy away from speaking about this. He was 269 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: I think, according to records from what I've seen, very 270 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: open that like this is where the idea came from. 271 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: It really inspired him. But according to researchers, the American 272 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: and the Canadian government buried the Blackfoot roots of Maslow's 273 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: theory because they didn't want it to elevate a positive 274 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: narrative about these people. It was only really rediscovered, not 275 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: so much rediscovered, but republicized after Maslow died some fifty 276 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: years later, when someone went to write a book on 277 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: his life and they went to the Smithsonian Archives, and 278 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: then they went to Maslow's daughter, who essentially gave them 279 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: permission to excavate his hidden archival box. And as they 280 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: were looking through it, they found all these entries and 281 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: all these accounts and all these early theoretical ideas from 282 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: his time there that would become his theory of human 283 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: motivation seven years later, which is the birthplace of the 284 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: now we know as the hierarchy of needs. This is 285 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: so important to know and to share, especially especially since 286 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: psychology has so many underlying issues as an increasingly but 287 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: also historically white, westernized discipline. Here we have an example 288 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: of a core concept, a core theory, one that millions 289 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: of people know about, that was directly informed and based 290 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: on the teachings and cultural harmony of a Native American group. 291 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: And it's a theory they don't get credit for. Only 292 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: the man who named it does. I found out about 293 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: this a few years ago, actually for the first time, 294 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: thanks to a listener of the podcast, and it's just 295 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: kind of stuck with me ever since. So I'm really 296 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: glad that we get to talk about it today, and 297 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: it's perfect timing to do a full episode on this 298 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: with that in mind, and I would really really encourage 299 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: you to go and look at this more. There's a 300 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: bunch of a bunch of like really interesting historical accounts 301 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: available at like the University of Montana website, University of 302 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: Alberta website that goes through all of his diaries and 303 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: all of that. And there's also a lot of just 304 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: like personal accounts from back then of people who were 305 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: there when he was writing the theory that, yeah, it's 306 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: just really interesting to dig into. But with that in mind, 307 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: let's move on to the final myth of Maslow's so 308 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: called hierarchy, and that is that it is universally applicable, 309 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: or even further, that it had strong empirical evidence that 310 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: makes it a reliable and valid framework. The truth is, 311 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: Maslow's hierarchy is not that scientifically supported, even if it 312 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: is really really popular. And I wanted to include this 313 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: at the very end after talking about where he got 314 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: the theory from, because it shows that his methods of 315 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: coming up with stealing, getting inspired by whatever you want 316 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: to call it, were not scientific even if they produced 317 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: something that a lot of us relate to. It was 318 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: entirely derived from his own personal observations and personal anecdotes 319 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: and the knowledge of a specific people, and he never 320 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: tested it, not once in a proper scientific setting. All 321 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: of his ideas that you know, we have these five 322 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: needs and five needs only now, that we need to 323 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: complete them all in order to fulfill others, that self 324 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: actualization and self transcendence is accessible to everybody, and that 325 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: people even get a sense or a feeling from it, 326 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: that it's even impactful, not examined, not really investigated. Since 327 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: his death, researchers have found little to no evidence for 328 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: the validity of the five need hierarchy. One of the 329 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: most frequently cited reviews came from Bridgewall and Waba in 330 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six. They reviewed studies based on his theory 331 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: and stated the literature review shows that Maslow's need hierarchy 332 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 1: theory of human motivation has received little clear or consistent 333 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: support from the available research findings. Some of Maslow's propositions 334 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: are totally rejected, whilst others receive mixed and questionable support 335 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: at best, which is a crazy statement for a theory 336 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: that has been taught in schools and psychology labs and 337 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: classrooms and offices for decades at this point, but there 338 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: you go. It may not even be true now. In 339 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: his defense, Maslow never promoted his theory to be a 340 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: final truth on human flourishing. He was honestly just writing, speculating. 341 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: He was interested in this and something stuck. But it's 342 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: interesting to see how many of those original theories he 343 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: had and original ideas that he did take from the 344 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: Blackfoot Nation have been taken out of context now in 345 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: the modern day. I still think it's a nice idea. 346 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: I still think it does provide a promise or a 347 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: path to how we could provide for people, and how 348 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: society should and can operate, and how we should take 349 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: care of others. But does it deserve its position as 350 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 1: one of the most famous theories of psychology. I don't know. 351 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: Let me know what you think down below. That's all 352 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: I have for you. As I said, it's a bonus episode. 353 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: I always do these bonus episodes and I end up 354 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: speaking for like thirty forty minutes, But that is not 355 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: their intention. We're trying to keep these short and short 356 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: and sweet. So let me know what your thoughts are. 357 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: Let me know if there if you think there is 358 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: a better theory out there, better than Maslow's, let me 359 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: know if you were surprised to learn anything in this episode, 360 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: or if you have further context or information about this 361 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: that I may have missed. As I said, I actually 362 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: didn't know a lot of this until a listener reached 363 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: out to me a couple of years ago and corrected 364 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: something that I'd said in an episode, And I'm very 365 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: grateful for that because it sent me down this really 366 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: interesting path and I got to learn so much. So 367 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: if there's anything else you want to contribute, I would 368 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: love to hear from you in the comment section below 369 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: on Spotify, or you can DM me if you're listening 370 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 1: elsewhere on Instagram at that Psychology podcast. Also a reminder, 371 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: we are now on Netflix if you want to watch 372 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: full episodes of the Psychology of Your Twenties. Not this 373 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: episode though, because our bonus episodes are just for people 374 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: who listen to the audio podcast the Ogs. As I 375 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: would say, we also have a sub stack and just 376 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: so much else going along and going on, not going along, 377 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: going on down in the episode description, So head there 378 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more, find us, do anything really, 379 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 1: But until next time, I hope you enjoyed the episode. 380 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: I give me any ideas of what you want me 381 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: to debunk next. I would love to do it for you. 382 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: Be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will 383 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: talk very very soon.