1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: middle income families need help. We're coming out of COVID nineteen. 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: You want to keep our economy strong. When you have 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: an infrastructure build, there's spin off from back nis, spin 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: offtion cities, from towns all across from America. Floomberg Sound 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: on Politics, Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. So 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: we need to incentivize the manufacturing of chips in America. 8 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: I do believe the vaccine state of effective. But I 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: think what government's role is to share the clients, share 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: the fact, share the benefits. Schloomberg Sound on with Joe 11 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio from deep inside the Beltway where 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: it's so hot they installed a fan in the death ceiling. 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: But we drive on with a new push on Capitol 14 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: Hill to band lawmakers from using their positions to profit 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: on stocks. Congress swiming Alexandria Occasio Cortez say she is 16 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: now introducing new legislation to stop confess lifted trading, and 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about it in a moment with 18 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: Kendrick Paine of the Campaign Legal Center, which has filed 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: complaints against at least three lawmakers, and we'll hear as 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: well from Robert Hockett at Cornell Law School and the 21 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: panel Bloomberg's Politics contributors Geennie she and say No. When 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: Rick Davis with us for the hour, we turned to 23 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: conflicts of interest on Capitol Hill specific to investing. You 24 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: may remember this was addressed about ten years ago and 25 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: something called the Stock Act, which requires lawmakers to disclose 26 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: their stock trades within forty five days, no exceptions, in 27 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: an effort to keep them from profiting on inside information. 28 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: Amazing that that didn't exist before ten years ago. At 29 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: the time, it was embraced by many, including a representative 30 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: from New York you may have heard of named Kathy Houkel. Yeah, 31 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: this is her on the House floor in thank you, 32 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: Madam speaker. Just a minute ago we heard our chaplain 33 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: beseech us to be open to the hearts and minds 34 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: of the people we represent. That is exactly why today 35 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: we need to pass the Stock to stop inside training 36 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: on congressional knowledge. Whatever happened to her, and President Obama 37 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: of course signed the bill into law later that year. 38 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: It's the notion that the powerful shouldn't get to create 39 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: one set of rules for themselves, and another set of 40 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: rules for everybody else. And if we expect that to 41 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: apply to our biggest corporations and to our most successful citizens, 42 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: it certainly should apply to our elected officials. But it 43 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: may not have stopped that behavior. The Washington Post the 44 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: first report today Senator Ran Paul failed to disclose his 45 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: wife's purchase of stock and Gilliad, which of course makes 46 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: a COVID treatment. Made that trade after Congress was briefed 47 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: on the threat of COVID, before everyone was aware of 48 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: the pandemic. The aforementioned Alexandria Acastio Quartet tweets today it 49 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: is absolutely wild that members of Congress are still allowed 50 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: to buy and sell individual stock. It shouldn't be legal, 51 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: she says. Now that would go quite a few steps 52 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: beyond the Stock Act. And now the Campaign Legal Center 53 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: has filed a complaint with Congressional Ethics Offices against three 54 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: other lawmakers, Senator Tommy Tuberville of Alabama, Rep. Pat Fallon 55 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: of Texas, Rep. Blake More of Utah for violating the 56 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: Stock Act. And we're joined by Kedrick Payne, General counsel 57 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: and Senior director of Ethics at the Campaign Legal Center. 58 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: Kedrick welcome, thanks for being with us. These are all 59 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: Republicans I just mentioned. But is this not a bipartisan problem. 60 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: It is a bipartisan problem, and it also affects both 61 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: House members and members of the Senate. Everyone is involved. 62 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: So tell me about your complaint and what you're trying 63 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: to accomplish with these three lawmakers. I assume there could 64 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: be more. That's right there. Probably the will be more, 65 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: because there looks to be a trend that these lawmakers 66 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: are finding where they can just wait to disclose a 67 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: trade at the end of the year instead of following 68 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: the stock pack, which requires you to reveal that trade 69 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: real close to the time when it happens is the 70 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: only time when it's useful for the public to know 71 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: whether or not there's a conflict. That's the case with 72 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: those you're complaining about as well, Ran Paul. It's not 73 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: that they never disclosed, right, it's that they didn't do 74 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: it in the appropriate period of time. That's right. You 75 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: have to understand the history of the financial disclosure law. 76 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: Ever since the nineteen seventies, it's been required at the 77 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: end of the year the assets including stocks, have to 78 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 1: be disclosed, but around twelve it was confirmed that that 79 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: is not enough information. You have to know it at 80 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: the time it happens, and that's the loophole that it 81 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: looks like Senator Paul is exploiting. It's not even a 82 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: loophole really, it's just valid in the law by not 83 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: disclosing at the time when it happens, just doing it 84 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: the way we used to do it without acknowledging the 85 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: new law. Do you expect to file a complaint against 86 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: Ram Paul as well? Yes, we actually did follow law 87 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: a complaint against Senator Paul a few hours ago, and 88 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: it's because he's the most problematic. The reason why it's 89 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: a problem with these stock trades if it looks like 90 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: Eastern an intentional violence number law. His stock trade happened 91 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: on February if you were called, that is the time 92 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: when UH people did not know much about how COVID 93 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: would hit the US. The only SIF team confirmed cases 94 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: at the time he made that trade, and then a 95 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: few weeks later, when Senator Burr and other senators made 96 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: similar traits, there was a huge public black backlash. He 97 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: UH completely escaped that backlash by waiting until now to 98 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: UH fill that this is Gilliad Sciences which makes Remdesivie right. 99 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: That was one of the best known treatments for COVID 100 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: just a couple of months later. Exactly, So what's the 101 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: punishment for these lawmakers? What are you trying to get 102 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: done here with your complaints? Well, the main thing we 103 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: want is to have the Senate at this committee truly 104 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: investigate this UH stock trade, and if it is found 105 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: to be intentional, that's a criminal violation, and it is 106 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: subject to find going up to sixty dollars and possible imprisonment. Well, well, 107 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: I guess that would be quite a story. But you're 108 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: going through the ethics offices. You're trying to prompt essentially 109 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: Capitol Hill to police itself, to do its job. That's 110 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: exactly right, because this also has political consequences as well. 111 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,239 Speaker 1: I mean, even if it's considered that this stop trade 112 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: was just one stop trade, it wasn't worth millions of dollars, 113 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: the amount of political fallout that he avoided by not 114 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: disclosing this contribution, this this trade back in March is enormous. 115 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: You saw what happens Senator birth where he ended up 116 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: soon announcing he would not run for re election, and 117 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: then Senator Loffler didn't win her re election, so this 118 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: does have consequences that the senator was able to avoid 119 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: real world consequences from the campaign Legal Center. Kedric, we 120 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, for helping us understand this. 121 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: And you just heard new on Bloomberg Sound On it 122 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: wasn't just Tubberville Fallon and more. They have now added 123 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: Rand Paul in a fourth complaint today, let's bring in 124 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: Robert Hockett is a professor at Cornell Law School. Professor, 125 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Bloomberg Radio. What kind of legal trouble could 126 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: these violations lead to beyond censure? Gee, thanks so much 127 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: for having me on. So I think Kendrick actually basically 128 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: I think gave us the lowdown on what the legal 129 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: trouble could be, right. I mean, these are potential criminal violations, 130 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: and they're subject to significant criminal penalties, including you know, 131 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: hefty fines and even prison time. So, um, you know, 132 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: if the Congressional Ethics Office doesn't need investigate and finds 133 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: that these were outright violations, um, then we're talking about 134 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: serious potential problems for the violators. Could there be legal 135 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: implications outside of of that system? In other words, could 136 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: someone sue these lawmakers? To potentially do even more. It 137 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: could happen because it's worth noting the sort of the 138 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: overlap I guess between the Stock Act on the one hand, 139 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: and the insider trading prohibitions under the Securities Act of 140 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: three and the Securities Exchange Act of four on the 141 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: other hand. Right, the basic idea in all three cases, 142 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: that's to say, both the thirty three and thirty four 143 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: Acts on the one hand and the Stock Act of 144 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: on the other hand, um is it's a basic fairness concern. Right. 145 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: The idea is that I you, by ident of a 146 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: particular position that you have have privileged access to information 147 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: that bears upon the value of stocks, and you trade 148 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: on that information without disclosing to the broader public that 149 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: you have that information and sharing it with them as well. 150 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: Then what you're essentially doing is you're putting yourself ahead 151 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: of just ordinary market participants. You're basically trading on information 152 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: that isn't properly yours you. It's essentially inside your trading precisely, 153 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: and as you might know, as I'm sure you guys know, 154 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: actually inside your trading will allows both for regulatory and 155 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: criminal sanctions. On the one hand, if public agencies pursue 156 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: the crimes, but also private rights of action on the 157 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: part of others. We're spending some time on Bloomberg's out 158 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: on with Robert Hackett, professor at Cornell Law School. As 159 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: I look at this tweet today from Alexandriacascio, Courts has 160 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: the legislation that she's putting forth would keep members of 161 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: Congress from buying and selling individual stocks period. What kind 162 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: of legal obstacle might that face? Can Congress write whatever 163 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: rules self policing rules it wants or is it more 164 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: complicated than that? But Congress could could certainly write rules 165 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: along those lines, I said, I suspect that that wouldn't happen, though, 166 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: I suspect that what Congress would be more likely to 167 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: do would be to impose upon its own members something 168 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: pretty much like the SEC's disclose or abstain rule when 169 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: it comes to insider trading. More broadly, that's to say, 170 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: you would require those Congress members to sort of tell 171 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 1: the public, Oh, I'm about to sell this stock or 172 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,359 Speaker 1: I'm about to buy this stock because of this information 173 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: that I got, so that other members of the public 174 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: could get in on the act as well. You wouldn't 175 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: be another rich, privileging yourself relative to other people. My 176 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: guess is that Congress would be game to do something 177 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: like that basically just carry right over into congressional ethics 178 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: the kind of standard norms that we've come to expect 179 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: to the insider trading context. Um, it's certainly possible that 180 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: they could go beyond that and say, well, instead of 181 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: requiring disclosure or abstention, which is what insider trading law 182 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: currently requires, we simply require the abstention, right, Um, so 183 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: that there's not even a disclosure option. You just have 184 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: to abstain. Um. There wouldn't be anything to prevent Congress 185 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: from adopting internal rules of that kind for their own members. 186 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: But I don't again, I I sort of doubt that 187 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: that would happen. Well, I'll tell you what companies like 188 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg that that have access to particularly in the financial 189 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: news business, that have access to all kinds of of 190 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: information before the rest of the world also have personal 191 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: trading policies. It's too it's to keep things on the 192 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: up and up as far as this goes. On the 193 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: other hand, to your point, the AOC proposal is certainly 194 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: beyond that. You can't own individual stocks in that world. 195 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: But I'll tell you, Professor, if Martha Stewart can go 196 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: to jail, can't Ran Paul, he certainly could. Again, there's 197 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: as you know, I mean, there's been a number of 198 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: cases brought um and a number of investigations launched and 199 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: even prosecutions commenced in the last few years about precisely 200 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: this kind of thing, right particular members of Congress who 201 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: have been implicated and just out right insider trading scandals, 202 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: including one Republican I think he was out of California 203 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: back and I think was it was it the summer 204 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: of I'm sorry, we don't have time to go back 205 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: that far, Robert, but I appreciate your being with us, 206 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: Professor at Cornell Law School. I think we get where 207 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: we're going here and coming up, we want to hear 208 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: from the panel on this conflict trading with Bloomberg Politics 209 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: contribut leader's Genie she and say no and Rick Davis 210 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: there next time. Joe Matthew, this is Bloomberg. You're listening 211 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 212 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: Should members of Congress be allowed to own stocks at all? 213 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: Or should they simply be compelled to follow the rules 214 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 1: as written. Let's talk about it with the panel. Now 215 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: that we have set the table and even made a 216 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: little bit of news here on complaints from the Campaign 217 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: Legal Center, they have now added Rand Paul to the list. 218 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: That's four lawmakers they are issuing complaints over, and we 219 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: want to bring in the panel on this. Bloomberg Politics 220 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: contributors Genie she and Zano and Rick Davis are next. 221 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: I'll ask you both that question very simply, Genie, starting 222 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: with you should should members be allowed to own stocks 223 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: like grown ups or should they be banned because they 224 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 1: can't handle the laws as written? Well, I thought it 225 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: was so fascinating listening to Kendrick Payne and the professor 226 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: talk about this issue. And you know, in also stunning 227 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: that Rand Paul, somebody who has come out so vehemently 228 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: in terms of being against mask mandates and stopping the 229 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: spread of coronavirus being kicked off YouTube, had on February 230 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: purchase or his wife had purchased these stocks and had 231 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: not disclosed this. So that in and of itself is 232 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: a fascinating story. Yeah, it's a big problem, and we 233 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,719 Speaker 1: know that alexandric Ocasio Cortez and others have introduced legislation 234 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: as far back as March on banning trades um banning 235 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: members of Congress from trading stocks. I think that may 236 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: not be possible, and I think the professor is right. 237 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 1: We're probably looking more at a disclosure um, a tightening 238 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: up of the disclosures, versus an all out band, and 239 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: there's many reasons for that. Just one I can offer 240 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: you is that when you do the kind of band 241 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: that they are talking about, you do run the risk 242 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: that you diminish the type of people who can run 243 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: for Congress. It sounds silly, but you then say, if 244 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: somebody is a billionaire trillionaire and they can afford not 245 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: to trade, they can run and serve. But somebody who 246 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: them and their families have to make money on this 247 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: stuff can't do it. So there's implications that we don't 248 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: like to think about. But certainly tightening up the disclosures 249 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: would be a good first step. I'm sure you remember 250 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: this whole debate in this law of being signed in Rick. 251 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: Should there be a purity test or or just find 252 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: ways to inspire lawmakers to do the right thing follow 253 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: the law? Well, I think following the law would be good. 254 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: But this law, the Stock Act, has no teeth. It 255 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: wasn't a long ago that Kelly Leffler and three other 256 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: senators walked out of a closed door briefing just prior 257 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: to the outbreak of coronavirus and immediately started trading on 258 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: that um D O j SEC. The Senate Ethics Committee 259 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: all filed against them, and what was the outcome. They 260 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: all dropped the charges. They all dropped the investigation against 261 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: four senators who clearly traded on inside information that they 262 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: learned about the coronavirus. So until you get a bill 263 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: that actually is going to do something, uh, you're not 264 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: gonna see much change. And I would say this is 265 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: not a Congress that we've seen much desire to reform 266 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: their their practices. You know, they've held on to just 267 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: about every uh special gift they get, and this is 268 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: one of them. They can trade without fear that they 269 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: have inside information that they've gleaned from Congress. So what 270 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: should they do? What should this AOC bill become law? Well, 271 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: I mean you're requiring the people who are being policed 272 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: to actually make the law, so that never really turns 273 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: out very good. I've been very involved in the past 274 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: on campaign finance reform and the things that we did 275 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: with John McCain, and and it didn't take long for 276 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: the system to even undermine those reforms. I think the 277 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: Department of Justice, the SEC, these guys have to actually 278 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: start to act as if there are issues in Congress 279 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: related to the improper trading of of of of stocks. 280 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: So what should this debate look like here? Genie is 281 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: rick onto something here that that the Congress should not 282 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: be policing itself. Should the SEC, for instance, get involved. 283 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: The SEC can get involved, but we have to remember 284 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: one of the primary roles that Congress plays that's unique 285 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: in somewhat respects to our Congress is they do police themselves, 286 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: not criminally obviously, but they police their membership. And as 287 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: we've seen many times, they can hold their men and 288 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: members accountable. They can even kick their members out. And 289 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: I don't think we should get rid of that. That 290 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: policing needs to go on. It's critically important. But you 291 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: don't have to do one or the other. You can 292 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: do both. The SEC can get involved, they can certainly 293 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: be held criminally responsible for violating criminal laws. But I 294 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: do think it starts in the ethics area. And Congress 295 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: should do it. And let's not forget this is not 296 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: just about COVID. It wasn't that long ago we heard 297 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: about Nancy Pelosi's husband five million trading options on Google's 298 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: parent alphabet. That is a big deal. And so this 299 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: is not one party or the other, and it's not 300 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,479 Speaker 1: just COVID related. This is a huge, huge issue and 301 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: I don't think most Americans realized how deep it goes. 302 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: And so I'm not surprised that Rand Paul escaped this 303 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: kind of scrutiny when this occurred in February and it's 304 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: just coming out now. I'm glad you mentioned Nancy Pelosi 305 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: because when you go back to there was another trade 306 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: it was it was Visa and they were I p 307 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: O shares sixty minutes did an investigation into this, and 308 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: she became very upset when she was asked during a 309 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: briefing about it and denied any wrongdoing. But Rick, the 310 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: idea here is this goes all the way to the top. 311 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: It goes all with the top, and ultimately, right now, 312 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: the the arbiter of of these ethics tend to be 313 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 1: the voters. I don't doubt that, Uh. Senator Leffler was 314 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: uh Was was downgraded in her own state re election 315 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: effort by the fact she had to battle these these 316 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: these charges of self dealing, and so ultimately, I think 317 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: that that's where you go. This whole thing just reminds 318 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: me a little bit of a scene in Casablanca, you know, 319 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: where Captain Reno walks into the casino, so I'm shocked 320 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: to find out there's gambling going on, just as a 321 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: croupier hands him his winnings. So I mean, like, that's 322 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: exactly what we have in the United States Congress and 323 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: spoken like a man who spent some time there. Rick Davis, 324 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: Genie and Rick will be back in a bit as 325 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: we focus on the recovery coming up President Biden's economic agenda. 326 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: After we checked traffic in the market, Stay here, I'm 327 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg broadcasting live from our nation's capital, 328 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 1: Bloomberg to New York, Bloomberg eleven, Frio to San Francisco, 329 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg nine six to the country, Sirius XM Channel one 330 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: nine and around the globe, the Bloomberg Business app and 331 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Ready dot Com. This is Bloomberg so On with 332 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. The headline on the terminal, President Biden's economic 333 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: agenda confronts trip wires everywhere in Congress. Sure, the infrastructure 334 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 1: built passed the Senate, but now many think the hard 335 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: part is just beginning. And we'll talk about it next 336 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: with Bloomberg's Billy House, and thank you for being with 337 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: us on this little Friday known to most as Thursday. 338 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: Spent a lot of time talking about infrastructure. I'd say 339 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: this past week, but how about this past year. It's 340 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: been a long road and so roadblock coverage. When the 341 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: United States Senate passes a bipart as an infrastructure deal, 342 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: we stay up all night the day after talk about reconciliation. 343 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: But it's not over. The central pieces of President Biden's 344 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: four point one trillion dollar economic agenda, as I read 345 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: on the terminal, now are now moving through Congress on 346 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: apricarious to track path. We've talked about that, but further 347 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: complicated by a September showdown over the debt ceiling. Billy 348 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: House shares the byline with Stephen Dennis, and Billy's with 349 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: us right now. It's good to have you, Billy. The 350 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: debt ceiling is just one item that could slow things 351 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: down or change the plans that Joe Biden has. As 352 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: you right, funding deadline complicates the path after break. How 353 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: difficult is this going to be as a backdrop for 354 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: negotiating infrastructure. Well, there's two things. Keeping government open past 355 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: September because annual spending goals aren't completed and the debt 356 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: ceiling are in themselves issues that zeph Steiny Congress in 357 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: the past. Now you throw both of those in there 358 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: in September and early October, and with the infrastructure battles, 359 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: and you see something here that is almost unprecedented. We 360 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: all remember the whole fiscal cliff, will remember the quester. 361 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: Is that a good background to have when we talk 362 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: about this? Are we heading for one of those? Well, 363 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: we're still it was a question, how about another? True enough, 364 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: how about another fiscal cliff? Billy, there is one. There's 365 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: very there's a very real chance of one, because the 366 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: battles over the infrastructure are only causing festering wounds that 367 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: could spill over into other financial things. Uh And and 368 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: certainly a battle over the nation's debt and whether it 369 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: can continue to borrow is going to play a big 370 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: role in whether and how much we canue to spend 371 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: on agencies. So Republicans still that they are in a 372 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: good position to to say, hey, you know, one point 373 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: four point one truly, and when you're in debt, it's 374 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: not a very good figure. And and the Democrats of 375 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,239 Speaker 1: course of digging in and saying, well, we gotta do 376 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: this now, we gotta do this for the country and 377 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: we're after coming out of the pandemic. As far as 378 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: the debt ceiling goes, a lot of people thought that 379 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: it would end up in the reconciliation plan. Were you 380 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: surprised that it did not? And should we assume the 381 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: end that Chuck Schumer knows how this ends, that he 382 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: will paint Mitch McConnell into a corner and force Republicans 383 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: to vote. I think that's his hope. Uh. But Mitch 384 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: McConnell of course thinks that this puts it all on 385 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: the backs of Democrats and that they have to to 386 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: get through that reconciliatoration process you mentioned, have to be 387 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: unified and and and not can't lose one vote, so 388 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: it would be an all democratic thing now. Uh So 389 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: Schumer opted not to do that. And the question is, 390 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: of course, uh, somebody's got to bite the bullet here 391 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: or and and lead to some cooperation to get this 392 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: thing done. So that's one piece of this. Of course, 393 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: reconciliation is another. Nancy Pelosi says, you won't touch infrastructure 394 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: until reconciliation shows up. There's something called gosh, this is 395 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: different committee work. In your piece on the terminal, we 396 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: almost forgot what committees were in the middle of all this. 397 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: How's that going to go? Well, let's first of all 398 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: the budget framework to send it past this week as 399 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: even made it over to the House yet, and they're 400 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: going to come in for a special session on August third, 401 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: fourth just to pass that shell. But you know when 402 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: with the talk of hoping to get this done by 403 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: early fall, the truth is the committees aren't required to 404 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: actually fill in the blanks on that, to put in 405 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: actual programs and details till September. And Uh, that's not 406 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 1: gonna go as smoothly as perhaps it's written down on paper. 407 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: I mean, the different elements of both parties want different things. 408 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: So what's gonna happen? That will probably be strung out 409 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: the bill riding process. Uh, and the fight within Pelosi's 410 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: own caucus will be while we're dragging out this bill 411 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: riding and and U boat collecting on this other bill. 412 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: We have this fifty billion dollar roads and transportation bill 413 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: already ready to go and ready for us to vote on, 414 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: and we get money out the door. So pressure will 415 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: build on Nancy Pelosi to actually put that bill on 416 00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: the floor even if progressives don't want or two to 417 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 1: they get their way with the other bill. And of 418 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: course progressives exactly have been well problem for Nancy Pelosi 419 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: and for Chuck Schumer. They don't like the way of 420 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: the bipartisan bill came together, and they're more than happy 421 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: to to essentially hold that hostage until things come together 422 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: with reconciliation. There are also two names you point out 423 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: in your column, Kirsten Cinema and Joe Manchin. They don't 424 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: like the price tag, they don't like the way it's 425 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: paid for. So it sounds like Chuck Schumer and Nancy 426 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: Pelosi have problems in common. Billy, they do. And to 427 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: hear Chuck Schumer yesterday at a news conference, you yeah, 428 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 1: we're all gonna iron this out. This is fine, you know, 429 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: and I know, and anybody's watched Congress for a while 430 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: knows that when it's big, when it's important. When it 431 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: needs to get done, it don't get done until Christmas Eve. 432 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: Christmas Eve. Well, I'm not saying that's going to happen, 433 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: but Okay, the early Paul deadline they're putting for themselves, 434 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: I think is fantasy. When the House comes back. Uh, 435 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: and and what is it auguste right? Uh? What will 436 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: we see take place? Yeah? What don't we see take 437 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: place in those days? What's supposed to happen is the 438 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: routine passage of the budget framework or shell that Democrats 439 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: have sent over on that larger, massive piece that progressives 440 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: and others want. They don't start filling in the blanks 441 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: then until September when everybody's back exactly right. So I 442 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: guess let's put a bow on this, Billy. What does 443 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: this mean for the agenda? If you're Joe Biden in 444 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: Wilmington's looking down at d C this weekend, wondering if 445 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: any of this is gonna work. You've got infrastructure, you've 446 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: got a potential for inflation, you've got the debt ceiling, 447 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: there's this thing called COVID, and you're at the mercy 448 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: of Congress. How likely is it that his agenda gets through? Well? 449 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: He knows it's got to get through, and this guy 450 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: to get through this year because he could lose in 451 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: in uh the Democratic majority in both houses. So what 452 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: he's got to do is get involved person. He's got 453 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: to get one on one with lawmakers. He's got to 454 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: turn some of these people around and get them on 455 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: board together and get setthing through. And we'll wait and 456 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: see if he has the ability or contexts to do that. 457 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: Find the story on the terminal Biden Economic Agenda confronts 458 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: trip wires everywhere in Congress. Great work, Billy House, Thanks 459 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: for being with us on Bloomberg Sound On. We'll bring 460 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: the panel back next stay right here. Traffic in the 461 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: markets straight Ahead and more on Bloomberg sound On, Rick 462 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: and Genie are coming in. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. 463 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg. You Sound on with Joe Matthew 464 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio with breaking news today on Afghanistan, the 465 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: withdrawal and the takeover by the Taliban, as well on COVID. 466 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: We're gonna hit both with the panel as we bring 467 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: in Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie she and Zano and Rick 468 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: Davis Spending every hour with US here on Bloomberg sound On. 469 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: As far as Afghanistan is concerned, that's where we start. 470 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: The headline US to start embassy evacuation in Kabble. Indeed, 471 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: news today that the US is deploying three thousand troops 472 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: to help evacuate the embassy. Ned Price, a spokesperson for 473 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: the State Department. We are always evaluating the situation on 474 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: the ground. We are planning for all contingencies. Uh. This 475 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,959 Speaker 1: was a contingency in fact that we had planned for. 476 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: The embassy is set to be evacuated as the Taliban 477 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: makes rapid gains. This is a temporary assignment, temporary mission 478 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: for the troops to help with the evacuation. But it's 479 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: a screaming headline. Rick Davis, We've talked about Afghanistan quite 480 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: a bit. This is the kind of stuff you saw coming, 481 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: isn't it. Sure. We've been talking about this since the 482 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: President announced his policy of withdrawal. There was no contingency, 483 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: There was no peace pan piece plan in place with 484 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 1: the Taliban, and it was pretty predictable what would happen. 485 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: Taliban exerts their their advantage and they've gained enormous ground 486 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: and are just outside of the capital Kabul, and now 487 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: we're running out of the embassy like we did in 488 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: Vietnam under the failed wars during that era. And there's 489 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of finger pointing, but at the 490 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: end of the day, the people of of Afghanistan are 491 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: going to look back and you know think, well, you know, uh, 492 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 1: where was the US when we needed them? And the 493 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: transition there is no transition, It's it's literally a full retreat, Genie. 494 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: President Biden rejected that comparison to the evacuation Vietnam. The 495 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: images of people on our rooftop trying to get the 496 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: last helicopter out is that fair? Uh? You know, he 497 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: may reject it, and he, I'm certain wants to reject it. 498 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: But the fact is, you look at the headlines across 499 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: the world today. You have the United States bringing in 500 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: Marines as you've just been talking about, to evacuate Americans. 501 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: You have the United States asking the Taliban to spare 502 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: US and our embassy in the fight over Kabul. And 503 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: you didn't see this coming when mounted this withdrawal. I mean, 504 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: it is stunning that the United States is in this position, 505 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: and I think the President has got to be very, 506 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,719 Speaker 1: very clear with himself in the American public that the 507 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: decision he made to withdraw the troops, we all saw 508 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: this coming. He can't have been caught flat footed on this, 509 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: and we shouldn't be in this position. I think he's 510 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: going to have a lot of explaining to do. And 511 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: by the way, the pictures that are coming out of there, 512 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: they are really really telling. In the comparison is one 513 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: he's not going to be able to avoid. And I 514 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: think it's going to get worse as these last cities 515 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: begin to fall the optics. Here a tough fricking official 516 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: with the Pentagon telling the Washington Post today that Cobble 517 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: could fall within ninety days. That actually, well ninety days. 518 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: People don't have very long memories. Well the last twenty 519 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: years matter. When that's splashed across TV screens and the 520 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: internet in a couple of months from now, No, I mean, 521 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: when you see the atrocities, if it's like what happened 522 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: the last time the Taliban ran that country, uh, and 523 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: the putting women into slavery, and and and and the 524 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: religious courts that inflict enormous pain and suffering on the people. Yeah, 525 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: people are gonna see that image and they're gonna wonder, uh, 526 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: Joe Biden said he We've spent a trillion dollars in 527 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: twenty years and trained three thousand troops, and people are 528 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: gonna scratch our ahead and think what in the world 529 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: was the result of all that? And now I would 530 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: have suspect that that only in a few months will 531 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: be having a conversation on this program about the new 532 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: decision by the administration to try and re engage in 533 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: some kind of a security situation in Afghanistan. In history 534 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: repeats itself again as we spend time with the panel, 535 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: we have breaking news on COVID the Supreme Court Just 536 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: to Sammy Coney Barrett refusing to block Charlie Pellett mentioned 537 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: this a little while ago, refused to block. Indiana universities 538 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: were vironment but all students be vaccinated against COVID for 539 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: the false semester unless they have a religious or medical exemption. 540 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: No explanation as she turned away an emergency request from 541 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: eight students who said the vaccine mandate violated their constitutional rights. 542 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: Amy Coney Barrett, how is this going to go over 543 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: with conservatives? Genie Um I am not surprised that she 544 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: pushed back on this. I mean let's not forget the 545 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: college itself, in putting this in place, had allowed, as 546 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: we know and you just mentioned for exemptions. They are 547 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: also allowing students to take classes remotely so they don't 548 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: have to be immunized if they choose not to. And 549 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: let's not forget college is a choice, and the college 550 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: itself is a public university. It has a right to 551 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: protect its students, faculty, and staff. And for a conservative 552 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: conservative rather like Amy Coney Barrett, I don't think it's 553 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: a surprise that she is letting the state and the 554 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: university in this case make a decision on how to 555 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: go forward. When they filed this emergency appeal, I think 556 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: it was several days ago. Um. I think I was 557 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: expecting this to happen, and it did happen. I would 558 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: never have thought the Supreme Court, run by six conservatives, 559 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: would step in and force the state and the public 560 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: university to step back on this. So it's a big 561 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: it's a big win for the university. Yeah. Did you 562 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: feel the same way about that, Rick? Sure? I mean 563 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: I I applauded the decision. Uh. It shows you that 564 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: just because Amy Comy Barrett is a conservative and and 565 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 1: took a lot of gas coming into the court that 566 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: that she can make a clear and present decision on 567 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: what's right for the greater good of the country. I 568 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: mean lower Court Judge Frank Easterbrook had had said, Hey, uh, 569 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: these people have ample educational opportunities elsewhere. If they don't 570 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: like the rules in Indiana University, go someplace else. I 571 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: just applaud the judiciary. We complain a lot about them sometimes, 572 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: but I think they got this one spot on. Wow, 573 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: it's gonna be precedent setting. I can only assume, Genie, 574 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of complaints out there like this. 575 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: There are, and I think this is going to speak, 576 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: as you said, very broadly across the country as other 577 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: appeals come through. And let's not forget again just what 578 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: Rick said. They are not saying you have to go 579 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: to the University of Indiana and so we all must 580 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: be vaccinated. It is a choice to go, just like 581 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: it's a choice to work where you work. If the 582 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: institution requires vaccination to work there, you've got to do 583 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: it or consider other options. And that's the reality of 584 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: the situation. And I think coming to this on fourteenth 585 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: Amendment grounds was going to be a loser unfortunately for 586 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: these students, because there are options to file for exemptions 587 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: and there are other opportunities for education and Amy Corney Barrett, 588 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: this fits right within the conservative mindset. Let the state decide, 589 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: and she is doing just that. I'm reminded by Bloomberg 590 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: producer Matt Surely that that Barrett was teaching Notre Dame 591 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: like two years ago. She knows students, she understands the 592 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: education community. Does that give her more credibility among conservatives? Rick, 593 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: you know, I don't think she with the credibility amongst conservatives. 594 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: I think that her history speaks for itself. Uh. If anything, 595 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 1: I think she needs some credibility with progressives because who 596 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: knows what they thought her decision on this kind of 597 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: a case would be. And so I think she's distinguished 598 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: herself on this. But look, I mean she is. She's 599 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: just the tip of the iceberg. The courts. Um, We're 600 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: very clear on this all the way up the chain 601 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: and um. And I think it's much less about her 602 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: than it is about the environment. We're in h go 603 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: get vaccinated and go to school anywhere you want to. 604 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie she and say no, and Rick 605 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: Davis with us Bloomberg Sound on. Joe Biden just a 606 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 1: short time ago was talking about keeping kids safe with 607 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: masks in schools and not politicizing. This will give you 608 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: the last word on this, Genie. We're talk in college 609 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: in this ruling. But how about the lower grades, particularly 610 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: young kids, those under twelve? No vaccinations? Parents are fighting 611 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: over this, but this ruling could also apply to lower 612 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: level grades correct certainly private schools. When it comes to 613 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: younger kids, you know it could. And I think we 614 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: have to remember we don't know her reasoning on this. 615 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: We know that she decided not to support the students 616 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: in issuing this emergency relief. We don't know her reasoning 617 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: on that. I think if we did have reasoning, it 618 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: would help support some of what is going on there. 619 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: But as you mentioned, and people with young kids know, 620 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: the debates out there are very, very um difficult for 621 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: parents who can't get their kids vaccinated and this issue 622 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: of masks or no mask and I think that's going 623 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: to continue, and I think Joe Biden, all governors across 624 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: the country are dealing with this and it's going to 625 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: impact all of us. As schools start to reopen just 626 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: now and in the next coming few weeks. Rick and 627 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: Genie with us every day here on Bloomberg Sound On, 628 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: and I said, spect we're gonna do this again tomorrow, 629 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,240 Speaker 1: thanks to both of you as always, as we round 630 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:11,439 Speaker 1: out the fastest hour in politics. I hear they're onto 631 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: something in Germany. That's one of the first stories I 632 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: read this morning on the terminal. Berlin has a different 633 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: angle on COVID getting people vaccinated. They're throwing vaccine raves, 634 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: I read to help revive the dormant club scene. So 635 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: maybe it's time to steal a move here from the 636 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 1: techno capital of the world, enter the jab rave as 637 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: Anglela Markel herself says, you have to go to the 638 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: people and they are Just picture yourself that the freewheeling 639 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: kit cat club, your glow stick, dancing to the beats 640 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: at a party supervised by scientists. This is really happening. 641 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: Or maybe the club arena where the focus I read 642 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: is on administs string shots with blaring music and long queues. 643 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: It's almost like the old days, waiting in lines, sweating 644 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: it out, except no drinks are allowed inside. And the 645 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: bouncer but he's more worried about vaccination cards than proving 646 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: your age on an ID. For what it's worth, only 647 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: two people were turned away in our recent Monday So 648 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,879 Speaker 1: how about it. It seems to be working the jab Rave. 649 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: I'll meet you there. We'll maybe back here tomorrow for 650 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 1: the fastest hour in politics. We've got one more in us, Bloomberg. 651 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: Sound on. Make sure you're with us for the Friday 652 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: edition as we look back on the week that was 653 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: and a lot of news to cover ahead of the weekend. 654 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: Apologies to Rick and Cheeny. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.