WEBVTT - Elon Musk Live from the Qatar Economic Forum 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.680 Hey, this is David Popatopple's host of Elon Inc. We 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:09.760 have for you this week our interview in Cutter that 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:15.480 our colleague Michelle Hussein did with Elon himself. Here is 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.840 that interview in its entirety right now. And you should 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.680 also know that our episode, our Elon in episode this 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.959 week is all about me and Max breaking down the 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.800 interview and dissecting it the highlights, the low lights, et cetera, 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:29.840 et cetera. Enjoy. 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:35.000 Hello everyone and Elon Musk. Welcome to Cutter Economic Forum. 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:35.519 How are you? 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:38.239 Thank you for having me. I'm fan, how are you? 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:41.000 Very well? Thank you and very pleased to have you 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.599 with us. You know among those here in the audience 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:45.960 in Doha are some you will know people who have 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:50.040 backed you financially. Over the years since you last spoke 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:52.239 here in twenty twenty two, a lot has changed in 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:55.400 your life. You're not only running multiple companies you were 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.680 doing that then, but now you also have a role 0:00:57.720 --> 0:00:59.520 in government. So first of all, I hope you won't 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.800 mind it. For time to time, I have to move 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:03.720 you from one topic to another because we have a 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.360 lot to cover in the time we have. That will 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:10.600 be all right, okay. Well, let's start then with exactly 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.240 the fact that you now have this combination of being 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.440 a CEO and having a role as a government advisor. 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.839 Tell me about your week. How does it work? What's 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:20.920 the split of your time? 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.320 Well, I travel a lot. So I was in Silicon 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:31.160 Valley yesterday morning, I was in LA yesterday evening. I 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:35.160 mean Austin right now. I'll be in DC tomorrow. I'll 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.960 be there having dinner with President tomorrow night, I believe, 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:44.560 and then a lot of cabinet secretary meetings and then 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:47.319 back to Sloton Valley on Thursday night. 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.080 But I mean the balance of your time is it? Well, 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.240 clearly it's a lot. But is it still the case 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:56.240 as you said a while ago, that it's about one 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.160 to two days a week on your government work. 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:00.720 Yeah, that's correct. 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:05.760 And what does that mean for your corporate life? Because 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.280 if we start with Tesla, the company has suffered in 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:14.079 recent months what you've called blowback. So what is your 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:18.080 plan for turning that around? The declining sales picture? And 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:20.960 by what stage do you think you're going to be 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:22.040 able to turn it around? 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:24.440 Oh, it's all ready to turn around. 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.040 Give me some evidence for that. I've just been looking 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:33.160 at the sales figures for Europe in April, which show 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.560 very significant declines in the big markets. 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:41.400 Europe is our weakest market. We're stronger everywhere else, so 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.280 our sales are doing well at this point. We don't 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:53.120 anticipate any any meaningful or sales shortfall, and the you 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.160 know the obviously the stock market recognizes that since we're 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:01.160 now back over a trillion dollars in marketcap, so really 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.040 the market is aware of the situation. 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:04.520 So it's already turned around. 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.360 But sales still down compared to this time last year. 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:13.040 In Europe. In Europe, okay, and yes, but that's that's 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.679 true of all manufacturers. 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:17.480 There's no accessions. 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:21.280 Does that mean that you're not going to be able? 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.000 Does that mean you're quite weak? 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:27.760 Okay, but you would acknowledg wouldn't you that what you 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.680 are facing. Okay, let's just take it as Europe, what 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.160 you are facing is a significant problem. This Tesla is 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:36.360 an incredibly aspirational brand. People identified with it, it saw it, 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:38.560 They saw it as being at the forefront of the 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.720 climate crisis. And now people are driving around with stickers 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:43.920 in their cars saying I bought this before we knew 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.680 Elon was crazy, and there. 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:50.800 Are also people who are by buying it because Elon's crazy, 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:55.080 or however they may view it. So, yes, we've lost 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:56.920 some sales, perhaps on the left, but we've gained them 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.760 on the right. The sales numbers at this point are strong, 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.680 and we've seen no problem with the mad So what 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.240 do I mean? You can just look at the stock 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:13.120 price if you want the best inside information. The stock 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:18.799 market analysts have that, and a stock wouldn't be trading 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.640 near all time eyes if it was not. If things 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:24.960 weren't in good shape, They're fine, don't worry about it. 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.120 Okay, I was citing sales figures rather than share price. 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.760 Well tell me then, how committed you are to Tesla? 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.440 Do you see yourself and are you committed to still 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:40.320 being the chief executive of Tesla in five years time? Yes, 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:42.520 no doubt about that at all. 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:50.640 Well no, I might die. 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:51.160 Okay, sure to that. 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.160 Let me see if I'm dead. So there's a slighter mode. 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:58.719 Does that mean that the value of your pay doesn't 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:00.840 have any bearing on your decision? 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:09.159 Well, that's not really a subject discussion in this forum. 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:14.680 The I think, obviously there should be a conversation for 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.679 if there's something incredible is done, that compensation should match 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:26.680 that something incredible was done. But I'm confident that whatever 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:31.200 the whatever some activists posing as a judge in Delaware 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:33.560 happens to do will not affect the future compensation. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.240 This is the judge you twice struck down the fifty 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.920 six billion dollar pay package that was that was awarded 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:43.960 to you. I think the value on the basis on 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:45.920 the current value of stock options. 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.279 Yeah, not a judge, Not a judge. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.160 The activist who is cars playing a judge in a 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:52.039 Halloween costume. 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.560 Okay, that's that's your characterization. I think the value on 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.120 the current value of stock options. I think the. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.880 Actual justice according to the law, on. 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.160 The current value of stock options. I think the value 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.080 of that pay package stands at about one hundred billion dollars. 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.880 Are you saying you are relaxed about the value of 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.280 your future pay package. Your decision to be committed to 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.280 Tesla for the next five years as long as you 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.480 are still with us on this planet is completely independent 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:28.000 of pay. No, it's not independent. So pay is a 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.440 relevant factor then to your commitment to Tesla. 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:37.039 A sufficient voting control such that I cannot be ousted 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.720 by activists, investors is what matters to me. And I've 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.800 said this publicly many times, but let's not have this 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.680 whole thing be a discussion of my list pay. It's 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.000 not a money thing. It's a reasonable control thing over 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.239 the future of the company, especially for building millions, potentially 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:53.719 billions of humanoid robots. 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:55.400 I can't be sitting. 0:06:55.120 --> 0:07:00.280 There and weren't going to get tossed out by litical 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:04.200 reasons by activists. That will be unacceptable. That's all that matters. Now, 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:04.800 let's move on. 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:11.600 Okay, Well just one question, well one question before we 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:13.920 move on to other companies, which is that I wonder 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.800 if some of what you've has happened to Tesla in 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.520 the last few months, did you take it personally? 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:21.440 Yes? 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.880 And did it make you regret any of you all 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:38.800 think twice about your political endeavors, because it is. 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:44.640 I did what needed to be done, the violent antibody reaction, 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.280 and I'm not someone who's ever committed violence, and yet 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.440 massive violence was committed against my companies, massive violence was 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:59.000 threatened against me. Who are these people? Why would they 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.840 do that? How wrong can they be? They're on the wrong, 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.000 on the wrong side of history, and that's an evil 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.520 thing to do, to go and damage some pointocent person's 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:17.040 car to threaten to kill me. What strong are these people? 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:23.320 I have not harmed anyone, So something needs to be 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:25.880 done about them, and a number of them are going 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:27.800 to prison and they deserve it. 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:34.199 You're well, you're referring to the attacks on Tesla showrooms, 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:35.160 but I. 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:40.040 Think, well, let's into showrooms and burning down cars unacceptable. 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:42.640 Those people will go to prison, and the people that 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.199 funded them and organized them will also go to prison. 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:46.959 Don't worry, wouldn't you. 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:56.400 You wouldn't you wouldn't. Wouldn't you acknowledge that some of 0:08:56.440 --> 0:09:00.160 the people who turned against Tesla in Europe were are 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.800 upset at your politics, and very few of them would 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.959 have been violent in any way. They just objected to 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.040 what they saw you say or do politically. 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.560 Well, it's certainly fine to object to political things, but 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.320 it's not fine to resort to violence and hanging someone 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:24.760 in effigy and death threats. That's obviously not okay. You know, 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:30.240 that's absurd. That is in no way justifiable at all 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.120 in any way, shape or form. And some of the 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:38.120 legacy media and nonetheless have sort of justified which is unconscionable. 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:38.760 Shame on them. 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:43.280 Let's talk about your other companies then, in other business area, SpaceX. 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.240 I saw that you said in a speech at the 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:49.880 West Point Military Academy recently that the future of warfare 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.880 is AI and drones, And obviously defense is an increasingly 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.360 booming sector. With the state of the world at the moment, 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.760 do you we see SpaceX moving into weaponized drones? 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:15.040 You certainly ask interesting questions that are impossible to answer. 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:23.319 So SpaceX is is the space launch leader. So SpaceX 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:30.720 doesn't do drones. SpaceX builds rockets, satellites, and Internet terminals. 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:37.400 So SpaceX has a a very dominant position in space launch. 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:42.120 So of the mass launch to orbit this year, SpaceX 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:49.120 will probably do, China will do the remain half of 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:50.959 the remaining amounts of five percent, and the rest of 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:52.360 the world, including the rest of the US, will do 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.800 about five percent. So SpaceX will do about ten times 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:56.319 as much as the rest of the world combined, or 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:58.440 twenty times as much as China, which is in China 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.400 is doing actually a very impressive job. The reason for 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:04.240 this is that we're putting it into orbit the largest 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.960 satellite constellation, the Walls I've ever seen by far. So 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:12.839 I think at this point about maybe approaching eighty percent 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.440 of all active satellites in orbit are SpaceX and they're 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:21.120 providing high vand with global connectivity throughout the world. In fact, 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:25.440 this connection is on a SpaceX connection. So I think 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.959 this is a very good thing because it means that 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:31.400 we can provide low cost my bandwidth. 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:32.840 Internet to parts of the world that don't have it 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:33.960 or it's very expensive. 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:36.800 And I think the single biggest thing you can do 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.840 to lift people out of poverty and help them is 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.520 giving them an Internet connection, because once you have the 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:46.480 Internet connection, you can learn anything for free on the Internet, 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.040 and you can also sell your goods and services to 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:55.760 the global market. And once you have knowledge by the 0:11:55.760 --> 0:12:00.720 Internet and the ability to engage in commerce, that this 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.360 is going to greatly improve quality of life for people 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:04.920 throughout the world. 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:05.720 And it has. 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:08.960 And I'd just like to think anyone in the audience 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:13.120 who may have been helpful and you know, with Starlink 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.800 and getting it to approved in their country, and I 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:17.240 think it's doing a lot of good in the countries 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:18.720 that to have approved it, which is I think this 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.440 point one hundred and thirty countries are very happy with it. 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.240 I don't currently into space space actually getting into the 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.120 weapons business, that's certainly that's not an aspiration. 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.000 We're fre we're frequently asked to. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.280 Do to do weapons programs, but we have done part 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:33.720 a client. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:40.080 Do you envisage SpaceX or indeed, starlink is a separate 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.560 entity publicly listing in the near future or at all. 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:51.200 It's possible that starlink may go public at some point 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:51.760 in the future. 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.559 And what would be the what would be the time frame, 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:59.240 what kind of time frame you consider it? 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.400 I mean right, I mean no rush to your public. 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:07.600 The public is I guess a way to you know, 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:11.160 potentially make more money, but at the expense of a 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:15.880 lot of public company overhead and inevitably a whole bunch 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.400 of lawsuits which are very annoying. So there's really something 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.120 needs to be done about the share shareholder shareholder derivative 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:29.360 lawsuits in the US, because it allows plaintiffs law firms 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.640 who don't represent the shareholders to pretend that they represent 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.040 the shareholders by getting a puppet plaintiff for a few 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.840 shares to initiate a massive lawsuit against the company, and 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:43.440 the irony being that extreme irony that even if the 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.640 class they purport to represent were to vote that they 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.280 don't want the lawsuit, the lawsuit will still continue. 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:50.720 So how can it be. 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.800 A class action representing a class if the class were 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.760 against it? And that's the bizarre situation we've got in 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:01.520 the US. It needs a diary to perform that. As 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.160 anyone's running a public company, you've experienced this. It's an 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:05.800 absurd situation that needs to change. 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.720 Well, do you think Donald Trump might change it? You've 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.360 certainly got his ear. I imagine that you've put this 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.679 to him. Is this something you're trying to change before 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.679 any starlink IPO. 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.480 Well, we need a law to be passed. 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.960 The trouble being that you need sixty Senate votes and 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:36.040 the Democrats will vote against it. The plaintiff's bar is 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:40.120 I believe, the second largest contributor to the Democratic Party. 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.600 That's the issue. At the state level, this can be solved, 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.800 and I should say Texas recently passed a law which 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:54.160 at least the state level made is much more reasonable 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.000 because you have to get at least one in thirty 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.680 three shareholders to agree that they are part of a 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:07.040 class of sharehold This will be really helped with frivolous lawsuits. 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:12.400 Okay, let's talk about AI, which is in so many 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:17.000 of your businesses and in all our worlds in different ways. 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:21.120 It's one of the big changes the development of generative AI. 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:24.800 Since you last spoke to this forum three years ago, 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.640 you're in this space, of course with Grop, which almost 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.040 everyone will know. You co founded open ai and then left, 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.840 and you've obviously got a legal battle with open ai 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.280 and Sam Altman. I wonder if you could say something 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.400 about the status of that, because you were together in 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:44.320 Saudi Arabia with the president last week, with Sam Altman 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:47.320 in the same place at the same. 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:49.640 Time, in the neighborhood. 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.880 So does that mean you are pushing ahead with the 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:55.440 lawsuit against open ai. 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.880 Yes. So look, I came up with the name open 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:06.280 ai as an open source and as a nonprofit, and 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.080 I funded AI opening I for the first roughly fifty 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:15.240 million dollars, and it was intended to be a nonprofit 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:19.360 open source company, and now is they're trying to change 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:23.520 that for their own financial benefit into a for profit 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:24.480 company that. 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.560 Is closed source. So this would be like, let's. 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:31.600 Say you you funded a nonprofit to help preserve the 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:35.080 Amazon rainforest, but instead of doing that, they became a 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.400 lumber company, chopped down the forest and sold the wood. 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.000 You'd be like, wait a second, that's not what I funded. 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:41.960 That's opening. 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.640 They've made some changes to their call for instructure, though, 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:49.280 haven't they since in recognition of of what you've said? 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.200 And now that's just what they told the media. 0:16:53.720 --> 0:17:01.240 Okay, part they have part they have partly walked back 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:05.119 their plan to restructure the business. I guess that's made 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.000 no difference to how you feel about it. So you 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:08.520 determined to see them in court. 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:10.200 Of course. 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.560 Okay, Well, that's that's certainly going to be one to watch. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.120 I also wanted to ask you about AI and regulation 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.719 because when you were here last talking to John Micklethwaite, 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.160 you had some pretty strong words about the risk that 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:27.160 AI poses and you said that you really felt what 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.800 the US was missing was a federal AI regulator that 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.119 you know, something along the lines of the Food and 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:37.119 Drug Administration or the Federal Aviation Administration. Now you're clearly 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.159 now in a zone where you're more you're more on 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.920 the cutting regulation side than wanting new regulators. So has 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.520 your view changed on the need for an AI regulator? 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.240 Well, something I don't think there should be regulators. You 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.000 think of regulators like referees on the on the field 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.719 in sport, there should be some number of referees, but 0:17:57.760 --> 0:17:59.800 that you shouldn't have so many referees that you can 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:05.359 the ball without hitting one. So in many, in most 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:10.360 perhaps fields in the US, the regulatory burden has grown 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.680 over time to the point where it's like having more 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:18.920 referees than players on the field. So and this is 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.760 a natural consequence of an extended period of prosperity. It's 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.879 very important to appreciate this. This has happened throughout history. 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.480 When you have an extended period of prosperity with no 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:34.679 existential war, there's no there's no cleansing function for the 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:40.040 for unnecessary laws and regulations. So what happens is that 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.880 every year more laws and more regulations are pasted, because 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.000 you know, legislators are going to legislate, regulators are going 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.800 to regulate, and you will get the steady pile of 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.600 more and more laws and regulations of a time until 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.200 everything is illegal. And let me give you an example 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:06.159 of truly absurd situation. Under the Biden administration, SpaceX was 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:11.440 sued for not hiring asylum seekers in the US. Now. 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.120 The problem is it's actually illegal for SpaceX under itart 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.800 in National Traffic and Arms regulations to hire anyone who 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.560 is not a permanent resident of the United States, because 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:24.560 the premise being that they will take advanced rocket technology 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:26.480 and return to their home country if they're not a 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:27.200 permanent resident. 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.000 So we're simultaneously. 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.280 In a situation where it's illegal to hire slums US 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:38.560 and is also illegal to hire asylum seekers, and the 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:42.600 Biden's Departner of Justice chose to prosecute US despite both 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:43.760 paths being illegal. 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:45.920 Down if you do, down if you don't. 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:49.639 But my question was specifically about a regulator for AI, 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.919 which you said three years ago was needed, and you 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.919 said we need to be proactive on the regulation of 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.359 AI rather than reactive. Have you changed your mind on that? 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:01.720 No, of course not. What what? 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.080 No? Of course not. What I'm saying is that there 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:08.440 should be some referees on the field, a few referees, 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:08.679 but you. 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:10.919 Shouldn't have a field jam packed. 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.439 With referees that such that you could not kick a 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.159 ball in any direction without hitting one. So the the 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:18.640 the fields that have been around for a long time, 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:25.800 such as automotive, so aerospace you know, if the sort 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:30.480 of food and drug industries are overregulated, but the new 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:34.440 fields like artificial intelligence are underregulated. 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.440 In fact, there is no regulator at. 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:37.399 All, so they should be. 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:41.600 Do you still think that, Yes, I'm simply saying, which 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.440 I think is just basic common sense, that you want 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:46.320 to have at least you want you want to have 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:48.080 a few referees in the field. You don't want to 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.719 have an army of referees, but you want to have 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:55.000 a few referees on any given field, in any given sport, 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:59.640 or even any given arena industrial arena to ensure help 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:04.320 that like safety is taken care of. But your already 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:08.440 have so there's a there's there's a proper number of referees. 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:10.840 Like I said, it's actually very easy to visualize this 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:14.240 when compared to sports. If the whole field is packed 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.879 with referees, that would look absurd. But if there were 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.240 no referees at all, your game is not going to 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:20.680 be as good. 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.879 Okay, So let's then talk about your new world, your 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:29.840 your role advising government. You are in this unique and 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:34.680 unprecedented position of having billions of dollars worth of contracts 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:38.320 with the federal government yourself, mostly through SpaceX and also 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:42.200 now an insider's knowledge of it because of dog. Can 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:46.600 you see that there is a conflict of interest or 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.400 a potential conflict of interest in broad terms just through 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:50.480 that very fact. 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.360 I don't think so. Actually, there have been many advisors 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:59.720 throughout history and the US government and others who have 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:04.960 had economic interests, and I am silverely an advisor. I 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:09.800 don't have a formal power, and that's a president can 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:13.840 choose to accept my advice or not, and that's that's 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.400 how it goes. If there's a single contract that any 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.520 of my companies have received that people think is somehow 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:26.160 not was was awarded improperly, it would immediately be front 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:31.000 page news, to say the least. And if if I 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:33.560 hadn't mentioned it, certainly my competitors would. So if you're 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:36.080 not seeing that, then the clearly is not a complex 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:36.560 to interest. 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.479 The Yeah, there's another way though to look at it. 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:45.280 That For example, you have many competitors, whether it's companies 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.440 like Boeing or companies wh would like to do more 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:49.600 of the kind of work you do for NASA Blue 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:54.840 Origin Rocket Lab. And because those is in every federal 0:22:55.040 --> 0:23:01.280 government department, you or people who work for and you 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:05.120 are the driving force behind it, have an insight into 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:09.400 those companies' affairs and those companies relationships with the federal government. 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:16.359 Now, all we do is we review the organization to 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:21.680 see if the organization has departments that are no longer 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:26.359 relevant and and and then are the contracts that are 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:29.159 being awarded good value for money? In fact, frankly, the 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:31.320 bar is not particularly high. Is there any value for 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:34.880 money in a contract? And if there's if there isn't, 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.960 then we make recommendations to the secretary. The secretary you 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:41.760 can choose to take those actions or not take those actions, 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:45.359 and that's it. And then any action that that that 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:47.560 is as a function of DOGE is posted to the 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:51.679 DOGE website and to the DOGE dog govort at DOGE 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:55.960 handle on the x platform. So it's it's complete tran transparency. 0:23:56.920 --> 0:24:01.399 And I have not seen any case where so that's 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:04.760 my large It's even been an accusation of conflict because 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:08.760 it is as completely and utterly transparent. That's it. 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:12.720