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Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I'm Danny Shapiro and this is family Secrets, the secrets

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Speaker 2: that are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others,

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Speaker 2: and the secrets we keep from ourselves. My guest today

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Speaker 2: is Kimberly Warner. Kimberly is the founder, director, and producer

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Speaker 2: of Unfixed Media, a production company with a focus on

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Speaker 2: people with chronic, uncurable conditions. Kimberly's is a story of

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Speaker 2: an unfolding life that contains within it big secrets and

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Speaker 2: big consequences. It's also a story of courage, resilience, and

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Speaker 2: making meaning out of very hard things. And by this

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Speaker 2: I don't only mean personal meaning, though that would be plenty,

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Speaker 2: but rather the meaning that comes from illuminating and changing

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Speaker 2: the lives of others through advocacy, generosity of spirit, and art.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about the landscape of your childhood.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Wisconsin in the mid seventies and eighties,

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Speaker 3: and everyone thinks of Wisconsin, and we think of football

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Speaker 3: and cheese. But we were more like the tofu eating

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Speaker 3: goddess groups type of family, so we didn't quite fit in.

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Speaker 3: My dad was a cardiac surgeon in a small college

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Speaker 3: town in Wisconsin, and my mother was a psychotherapist, and

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Speaker 3: they through a tumultuous slash growthful marriage.

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Speaker 4: They went through about.

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Speaker 3: Five wedding bands, which might explain the sense that they

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Speaker 3: were falling out of love with each other, breaking commitments

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Speaker 3: to each other. They actually had five years where they

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Speaker 3: or exploring other relationships in an open marriage and made

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Speaker 3: it through all those years, but also learned a lot

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Speaker 3: of tools, and so they became kind of leaders. And

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Speaker 3: I knew this as a child. This wasn't a secret

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Speaker 3: to us. So I knew that my parents were very

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Speaker 3: much into teaching conscious loving workshops and growing through the

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Speaker 3: pain that they had experienced together. So there was a

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Speaker 3: lot of growth, a lot of yelling, a lot of

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Speaker 3: big emotions.

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Speaker 4: In the house.

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Speaker 3: That said, we also were sort of the perfect family.

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Speaker 3: And I'm making air quotes as I say that, because

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Speaker 3: of the status of my father and my mom and

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Speaker 3: the sort of the leadership roles that they carried. My

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Speaker 3: brother was very popular. I was a straight A student

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Speaker 3: in Ballerina.

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Speaker 4: We lived in a.

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Speaker 3: Beautiful log home on a lake. We were kind of

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Speaker 3: looked at as the perfect warners, and I shied away

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Speaker 3: from that big time it was very scary to.

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Speaker 4: Feel that label.

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Speaker 3: I didn't feel it in myself, and that is probably

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Speaker 3: where most of the truth lies. It's just there was

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Speaker 3: a really big schism between this deep onnoored sense that

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Speaker 3: I felt in my own identity, in my own being,

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Speaker 3: and the confidence with which our family was presented to the.

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Speaker 2: World as a child. How did you understand that schism

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Speaker 2: inside of you? You know, sort of the outsides not

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Speaker 2: matching the insides.

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Speaker 3: That's a great question. What I did is I buried it.

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Speaker 3: I became a people pleaser. I validated myself through my

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Speaker 3: surroundings instead of through my own intuition. I made sure

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Speaker 3: that everyone else around me was valid and happy, and

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Speaker 3: I would became so good at it that I really

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Speaker 3: didn't feel that schism myself. Eric is three years older,

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Speaker 3: and it was a very popular, charismatic, just social guy, extroverted,

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Speaker 3: and I couldn't have been more opposite than that.

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Speaker 4: I was the introvert.

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Speaker 3: In fact, we were just speaking the other day and

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Speaker 3: he said when our parents would argue, when it would

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Speaker 3: just blow up downstairs, he found an escape route through

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Speaker 3: his window, and that was his way of dealing with

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Speaker 3: it because it was just too much to tolerate, and

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Speaker 3: I remember those arguments too. But my technique was to shrink.

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Speaker 3: I call it sort of the shrink wrapped version of

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Speaker 3: myself or the fight fight er freeze.

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Speaker 4: I was the freezer.

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Speaker 3: So I would just freeze and shrink down as a

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Speaker 3: coping mechanism.

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Speaker 2: So your brother would literally leave the house and you would.

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Speaker 4: Of yourself exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of an amazing irony that your parents were

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Speaker 2: leading these conscious loving workshops and at the same time

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Speaker 2: had this really volatile relationship themselves. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 2: know what a conscious loving workshop is. Did you know

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Speaker 2: as a child? Did you Were you aware of kind

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Speaker 2: of what your parents were doing as leaders in that community.

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Speaker 3: Partially I knew that it was very psychological. My mother

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Speaker 3: would bring in that aspect of it through her marriage

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Speaker 3: and family counseling training, and it was also a lot

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Speaker 3: of stress management techniques that my father was bringing in

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Speaker 3: through his work with as a cardiac surgeon. But extending

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Speaker 3: beyond that into more of the energy medicine, biofeedback, some

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Speaker 3: of the things that are more common now, breathing exercises,

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Speaker 3: they do, these crash courses of Okay, we've got a

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Speaker 3: weekend workshop coming up at Wagging Wheel, and we need

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Speaker 3: to bullet point what we're going to be discussing with

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Speaker 3: our couples, and so I would these large, colorful blodderboards

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Speaker 3: and they would basically have exercises, techniques, a lot of

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Speaker 3: eye gazing, a lot of journaling, a lot of truth telling. Later.

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Speaker 3: I know that my father got involved with the Tantra

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Speaker 3: community in Hawaii, and while they didn't teach Tntra, I

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Speaker 3: know that my dad was learning a lot from that

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Speaker 3: community as well. My mom was a little more hands

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Speaker 3: off with it and so it wasn't brought into their

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Speaker 3: work as leaders, But I know that my dad was

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Speaker 3: learning a lot from that space as well.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about your mom, I mean, the mother of

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Speaker 2: your childhood.

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Speaker 4: Oh my mom.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is hard to talk about because I love

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Speaker 3: her dearly and she was young. You know, she was

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Speaker 3: a good Christian when she met my dad.

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Speaker 4: In fact, she was.

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Speaker 3: Called Parson Larsen at university and their first kiss Haddock

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Speaker 3: Bible between the two of them. So for them to

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Speaker 3: abandon Christianity, study Buddhism, make a meditation room.

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Speaker 4: You know, in the progression.

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Speaker 3: Of her evolution as a spiritual, loving human being, was

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Speaker 3: quite dramatic. What I remember from her reminds me a

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Speaker 3: little bit of Betty Draper from mad Men. There was

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Speaker 3: so much pain beneath the surface, but she had to

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Speaker 3: keep it all together. My dad was very chaotic with

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Speaker 3: his emotions, with his schedule, his commitments, and so for her,

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Speaker 3: she did her very very best to raise a good family,

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Speaker 3: help Eric and I feel safe, but at the cost

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Speaker 3: of feeling like there was a truthfulness in her own

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Speaker 3: being and therefore, by default me feeling like it was

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Speaker 3: safe for me to feel truthful with my feeling like

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Speaker 3: it needed to be a certain way in order to

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Speaker 3: keep up the appearances of this, because if one thread

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Speaker 3: was pulled, the whole thing would unravel. And she, to

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Speaker 3: her credit, dug deeply into this place of forgiving over

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Speaker 3: and over again with my father because of the affairs

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Speaker 3: and trying to grow herself with this. This is my partner,

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Speaker 3: this is what he's going to be doing, so okay,

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Speaker 3: then I might as well do it as well. And

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Speaker 3: let's open this marriage up, let's go to therapy, let's

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Speaker 3: figure this out. And if you're going to have affairs,

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Speaker 3: then I'm going to have.

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Speaker 4: A relationship too.

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Speaker 3: And she needed to grow herself. And I know she

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Speaker 3: said that, but I think my brother calls it we

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Speaker 3: were a little fearal, if that makes it, because there

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Speaker 3: was so much drama in their relationship. My mom did

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Speaker 3: a great job at making sure the meals were there,

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Speaker 3: the ballet classes were paid for, the family trips were planned,

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Speaker 3: the house was beautiful, But emotionally, I think my brother

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Speaker 3: and I were pretty fearal, left to figure it out.

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Speaker 4: On our own, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Kimberly doesn't just freeze and leave herself as a teenager.

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Speaker 2: She starts to exhibit some pretty severe anxiety symptoms and behaviors,

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Speaker 2: only she doesn't know what she's anxious about. After all,

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Speaker 2: despite her parents' arguments, they are seen as a model

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Speaker 2: couple and the Warners are a model family looked up

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Speaker 2: to by their community. All is perfect on the surface,

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Speaker 2: but definitely not perfect on the inside, so Kimberly is

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Speaker 2: left to come up with her own solutions.

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Speaker 3: My solution was to control everything within myself, because if

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Speaker 3: something was even though it didn't appear on the surface,

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Speaker 3: then I decided it must be me. The thing that's

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Speaker 3: wrong must be me, And I know I'm not alone

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Speaker 3: in that. When you can't identify the trauma out in

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Speaker 3: the world when.

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Speaker 4: The secret is buried.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's the only way, but I internalized

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Speaker 3: it and said, something's wrong with me. So I did

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Speaker 3: a pretty good job for a while until I couldn't

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Speaker 3: fixing the thing that was, whatever that flavor of the

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Speaker 3: month was that was wrong. I had a few earlier

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Speaker 3: traumas with my body with a developmental need disorder, but

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Speaker 3: that eventually passed. But I remember the first thing that

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Speaker 3: really got me was when I started getting pimples, and.

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Speaker 4: It was so.

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Speaker 3: I felt so helpless, and I would lock myself in

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Speaker 3: the bathroom for hours and hours and hours and pick

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Speaker 3: at my skin, tried masks and scrub and I even

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Speaker 3: started taking my brother's tetracycling, even though it wasn't my prescription.

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Speaker 3: I just popped them like pills because I heard that

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Speaker 3: was supposed to help.

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Speaker 4: I would plead at night.

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Speaker 3: I would leave the bathroom after just an inflamed face

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Speaker 3: of skin picking and scrubbing, and I.

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Speaker 4: Wanted nothing more.

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Speaker 3: Deep down, I couldn't tell this to myself, but deep

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Speaker 3: down I wanted to be held and loved for who

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Speaker 3: I was, for the big mess that I had just created.

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Speaker 4: I was like bringing the mess.

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Speaker 3: Inside out to the surface, and I wanted to be

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Speaker 3: witnessed in it, and I wanted to be loved in it.

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Speaker 4: But of course that's not what I did.

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Speaker 3: I would belining it straight to the bedroom and make

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Speaker 3: please with the universe that my skin would get better.

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Speaker 3: And this tormented me for years. And I'm not even

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Speaker 3: I didn't even have acne. I mean, this is to

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Speaker 3: the level where I would probably we talked to junior

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Speaker 3: high friends and high school friends and then goa, what

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Speaker 3: you didn't have skin or whatever.

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Speaker 4: So I was really really.

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Speaker 3: Anxious and agitated and becoming more and more hyper vigilant

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Speaker 3: around any sort of tiny little change that I would

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Speaker 3: sense in my body because that was the only thing

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Speaker 3: I felt like I could control.

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Speaker 2: Did you know it was anxiety? Did you have that

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Speaker 2: language or that knowledge or it was just you know,

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Speaker 2: these kinds of obsessions and compulsions and behaviors that were

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Speaker 2: like I have no idea why I'm doing this, but

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Speaker 2: I have to keep doing it.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly what it was.

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Speaker 3: And it was really just goal oriented. It was I

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Speaker 3: have to fix my skin. I mean I didn't even

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Speaker 3: allow room.

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Speaker 4: For why am I doing this.

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Speaker 3: I would feel the pain afterwards of why did I

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Speaker 3: do that, But in the compulsion, it was just this,

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Speaker 3: I have to fix it. There's no option here to

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Speaker 3: be broken.

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Speaker 4: There's no option here to feel the.

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Speaker 3: Chaos that I feel inside. And I think that was

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Speaker 3: a direct mirroring that my mom was feeling. There is

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Speaker 3: no option for me to feel this absolute chaos in

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Speaker 3: this marriage because I have to hold it all together.

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Speaker 2: And what were some of the other ways in which

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Speaker 2: the anxiety expressed itself during those years you've talked about,

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Speaker 2: you know, sort of the freezing up, the inability to

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Speaker 2: make decisions, that making yourself as small and invisible as

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Speaker 2: you possibly.

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Speaker 3: Could yeap and really getting a sixth sense for what

224
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:57,920
Speaker 3: other people wanted to hear and feel and see. And

225
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,880
Speaker 3: so I aversion of the shrink wrapping. Nobody probably would

226
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,760
Speaker 3: say I was introverted, because I also developed a really

227
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,640
Speaker 3: good social extroverted self in order to please the people

228
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,199
Speaker 3: that needed me to be that way. So I definitely

229
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 3: had a chameleon quality that was ultimately the goal was

230
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:29,680
Speaker 3: to protect that fragile, vulnerable truth that was me, and

231
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 3: that was the part that was never allowed to surface.

232
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 4: The chameleon could surface. So it varied.

233
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,560
Speaker 3: The techniques varied based on the environments that I was.

234
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:48,400
Speaker 2: In during this fragile and vulnerable time. In Kimberly's teenage life,

235
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 2: she and her mom are on a walk one day

236
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,480
Speaker 2: when her mom tells her in a very blunt and

237
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,840
Speaker 2: academic kind of way, that it's possible her father isn't

238
00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 2: in fact her biological father.

239
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:09,160
Speaker 3: So I was seventeen, and the way my mom tells

240
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:16,360
Speaker 3: it is that my dad had had one night experimental

241
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,760
Speaker 3: situation with person after they had already closed their open marriage,

242
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:26,840
Speaker 3: and so he was feeling ashamed, and on the heels

243
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,160
Speaker 3: of that, he said, well, I think you need to

244
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 3: tell Kim about the possibility that I'm not her father.

245
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 2: So this is something that your parents kind of sort

246
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,200
Speaker 2: of had a inkling about, but then shoved that inkling

247
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 2: away and didn't really discuss it with each other. Certainly

248
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,800
Speaker 2: didn't discuss it with you.

249
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,160
Speaker 4: No, and they but I also get the sense that

250
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:51,920
Speaker 4: they put it.

251
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:58,760
Speaker 3: Away the night that the conception happened in Canada. My

252
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,840
Speaker 3: mother came home the next day. I told my dad

253
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,800
Speaker 3: I was born eight months later, and it was buried.

254
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:08,200
Speaker 4: At that point.

255
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,600
Speaker 3: My dad remembers once looking at me as an infant

256
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:17,320
Speaker 3: and feeling like wishy mine, and he felt like, psychically

257
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 3: or something that he was worried. I could hear his

258
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 3: thoughts or feel his insecurity, and so he put it away.

259
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,520
Speaker 3: You know, of course nothing gets put away that easily.

260
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,520
Speaker 3: But the way that I've been told, and up until

261
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,520
Speaker 3: the age seventeen, it was not discussed. There was there

262
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,040
Speaker 3: was not even a question in my mind you know

263
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,720
Speaker 3: who my dad was. I have a pretty good delete

264
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,720
Speaker 3: button on some memories in my life, so I guess

265
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 3: you couldn't call the memories if I'm deleting them. But

266
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,120
Speaker 3: I remember that it was around the lake, and I

267
00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,120
Speaker 3: remember that it was an overcast day, and I I

268
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,239
Speaker 3: was a little confused by why my mom wanted to

269
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,280
Speaker 3: take me for a walk, because usually it was more

270
00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,639
Speaker 3: of a jogging type of thing where she took the

271
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,119
Speaker 3: jogging movement happened in the eighties and she took that

272
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,360
Speaker 3: on and so that's usually how we would.

273
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,439
Speaker 4: Spend our time together. And this was a walk.

274
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,679
Speaker 3: And I remember as we sort of turned the corner

275
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,879
Speaker 3: around closer as we emerged towards High Cliff, which is

276
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 3: got like a golf course and a country club. She said,

277
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,679
Speaker 3: I your father wants me to know that there's a

278
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:42,400
Speaker 3: chance that he's not your father. And in that same breath,

279
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,359
Speaker 3: she said, but isn't it wonderful knowing that you belong

280
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:55,200
Speaker 3: to the mystery? And I sensed a very strong need

281
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,919
Speaker 3: for this to be a happy story, for this to

282
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:02,440
Speaker 3: be a positively beautiful thing. And of course she's trying

283
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 3: to protect me. Ugh, I mean, okay, I've got to

284
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:12,480
Speaker 3: tell my daughter this. So I don't think there was

285
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,159
Speaker 3: a fraction of a second where I allowed myself to

286
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,760
Speaker 3: really fall into what she had just said. I quickly

287
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,800
Speaker 3: went to how am I supposed to respond to this?

288
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,280
Speaker 3: And she gave it to me. She fed it right

289
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,080
Speaker 3: to me. She said, well, it's cool you belong to

290
00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,439
Speaker 3: the mystery. And I'm like, yeah, that's cool.

291
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:30,200
Speaker 4: Right.

292
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 3: It was as if the executive functioning of my brain

293
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,560
Speaker 3: turned off, and you know, just tell me what to say.

294
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,200
Speaker 3: So later in life, you know, my mother says that

295
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,080
Speaker 3: that's actually not what happened. That it was me that

296
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,360
Speaker 3: said isn't it cool that I belonged to the mystery.

297
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,480
Speaker 3: I just don't remember saying that. But I also don't

298
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:03,439
Speaker 3: leave that as out as a possibility, because again, I

299
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 3: was trying to read what I needed to be in

300
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,119
Speaker 3: this situation, and I very clearly knew that I needed

301
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,879
Speaker 3: to be optimistic and positive and that this is a

302
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,479
Speaker 3: beautiful story.

303
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:15,920
Speaker 4: So that's where it was left.

304
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 3: And I truly I don't remember talking about it with

305
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:23,119
Speaker 3: my dad, none of my friends. I don't even remember

306
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 3: thinking about it after that walk, Right.

307
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 2: You put that beautiful story away.

308
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 4: I put it away. Yeah, that lovely story away.

309
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,359
Speaker 2: So was that lovely story tucked away? Life in the

310
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,639
Speaker 2: Warner family continues in its usual fashion, school dinners, the

311
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,359
Speaker 2: planning of trips, but then tragedy strikes.

312
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 3: In my senior year, spring break, we have a family

313
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 3: vacation to go to Mexico. My brother's meeting us from

314
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 3: Colorado University of col Colorado. He's there and he's going

315
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 3: to fly to Cancun and meet us all there.

316
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 4: My dad.

317
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 3: The night before we are to drive to the Milwaukee airport,

318
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 3: which is about a two hour drive, he was at

319
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,679
Speaker 3: a retirement party for one of the nurses at the

320
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,680
Speaker 3: hospital and he had.

321
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 4: To or was dressed up as Willie Nelson.

322
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 3: His two partners were also dressed up, and I think

323
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 3: they sang some tunes, and of course there was drinking.

324
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 4: And.

325
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,919
Speaker 3: Somebody from the party actually asked if he would like

326
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,879
Speaker 3: a drive home because they noticed he'd been drinking more

327
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,160
Speaker 3: than usual. And they said to us that he grabbed

328
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 3: the keys and said, I'm my own man.

329
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 4: And I thought that was interesting.

330
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 3: That was a choice that he made to take it

331
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 3: on and be responsible for his commitment to just being

332
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 3: the man that he thought he was supposed to be.

333
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 4: He got in the car and he drove home, which.

334
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 3: Is probably a twenty minute drive, and we had already

335
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 3: left because he was late, and my mom in a frenzy.

336
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 3: I remember gathering our bags in the house and it's

337
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 3: almost it's two am. You know, we're supposed to be

338
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 3: at the Milwaukee airport at four am. And he's not here.

339
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 3: He's not here, he's not here. She scribbled off a

340
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 3: note that said meet us at the airport. I'm pissed

341
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,360
Speaker 3: and underline, underline, underline, and left it on the counter

342
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 3: or on the bed or something. He got home about

343
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,640
Speaker 3: thirty minutes later and found that and threw a bag together.

344
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 3: So he got on the highway and I think he

345
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 3: was nearly to the Milwaukee airport. It was probably forty

346
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:54,640
Speaker 3: five minutes from there, and he got tired, and as

347
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 3: my mother said he would do when he was tired,

348
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 3: he would put his hand through the sun roof and

349
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 3: sort of get some fresh air on his hand. Happened

350
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 3: to be that the sun was rising at that moment,

351
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 3: because the car behind him had seen this. He waved

352
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 3: at the rising sun and then swerved over and hit

353
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 3: a mac truck head on and was killed.

354
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 4: We did not know.

355
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 3: We got on the plane and received a little napkin

356
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 3: on the plane that said call this number.

357
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 4: It was this is the flight attendant had given it

358
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 4: to us, and.

359
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 3: You know, we just thought it was some one of

360
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 3: the cardiologists saying Dave will be late.

361
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,120
Speaker 4: He'll be on the next light.

362
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 3: So when we finally got to the Cancoon Airport and

363
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 3: got through customs and my mom was able to call

364
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 3: the number, this I do remember, maybe clearer than any

365
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 3: memory I have from childhood. She turned to me and

366
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 3: her beautiful mouth, with her lipstick stained lips, said, Dad's dead.

367
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 3: If this was the coroner's office from Fredonia, Wisconsin. And

368
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 3: you know, that was the end of chapter one in

369
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 3: Kim's life. That moment, that something ended there, and.

370
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 4: Of course.

371
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 3: I didn't know how to feel. That my coping was denial,

372
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 3: and I denied it all the way home. We waited

373
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 3: for my brother to arrive, watched him fall to his

374
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 3: knees and scream and felt all of their very open emotion,

375
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 3: which made me feel smaller and smaller and smaller, because

376
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 3: I didn't have space for my way, nor did I know.

377
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 4: What my way was, but it wasn't their way.

378
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 3: So I went into denial and then also justification, and

379
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 3: just decided, well, he's closer to me now because he's dead.

380
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 4: I really didn't leave room for.

381
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 3: Any pain or sadness, real pain or sadness.

382
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 5: I went through the motions, I went to therapy, I cried,

383
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 5: I wrote letters to my dad, I shared something during

384
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 5: his memorial service, but I didn't really feel the deep,

385
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 5: deep ache and chaos.

386
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 4: It was too much. It was too much for me.

387
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: Did you in the next period of time did you

388
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 2: return to the question of whether he was your biological father?

389
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: Or did that lovely story stay buried for that period

390
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 2: of time.

391
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 4: Gone.

392
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 3: Totally gone, not even if there was any bit of

393
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 3: it that was still lingering in my psyche even before

394
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 3: his death.

395
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 4: His death obliterated it.

396
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 3: I can remember walking through all the different stages of

397
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 3: losing him and then grieving him when I went to college,

398
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 3: and it was my alliance was one hundred percent to him,

399
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 3: and in fact my confirmation of our similarities and how

400
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: I was going to live out his destiny and you

401
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 3: take his DNA where his abbreviated life couldn't take it.

402
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 3: I was all on my shoulders and that was a

403
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 3: way for me to stay close to him.

404
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: So those years in college, how would you characterize the schism?

405
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 3: Well, fortunately I did early on connect with my first love,

406
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 3: my first lover, i should say, and we were together

407
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 3: for three years.

408
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 4: And he also lost to father. So a lot of

409
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 4: our bond was around, and.

410
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 3: You know, writing letters to our fathers and making them

411
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 3: larger than life and speaking with them and burying the letters,

412
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 3: and the Colorado Rockies, and so there was a way.

413
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 4: That this gives them got bigger.

414
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 3: The sense of my truth and my ability to feel

415
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: what was going on inside, I think would come forward

416
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: every once in a while through the tumultuous love that

417
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 3: I'm talking about. With this man named Ali. He was violent,

418
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 3: he was aggressive, he was passionate, he was everything that

419
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 3: I wasn't and so I would feel bubbles of my

420
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 3: own truth coming forward, just because it had.

421
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 4: To in that kind of relationship.

422
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 3: But ultimately it was like little firecrackers, you know, just

423
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 3: the little ones that you put out on the pavement,

424
00:26:58,280 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 3: not the big ones.

425
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 4: Just the little ones been around it circles.

426
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 3: It was like I would have these little berths of oh,

427
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 3: this is how I feel, and then water would get

428
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 3: poured on top of it and it would go far

429
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 3: far away. The schism and the sense of who I was.

430
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 4: It got buried.

431
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 3: Also because I declared my major the first month I

432
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 3: was there, and I was going to be a doctor.

433
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 3: My job was to live my dad's life. I was

434
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: at a wonderful liberal arts school that had all these

435
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 3: incredible creative classes and professors. I didn't touch those outside

436
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 3: of the requisites. You know, I had this deeply creative

437
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 3: life inside, but I didn't allow that to come to

438
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 3: the surface because I was supposed to make my dad

439
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: happy in the afterlife.

440
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 4: He did not want that for me.

441
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 3: This was not something I ever felt the pressure from

442
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: the outside. This was something I created myself.

443
00:27:54,040 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: We'll be right back when Kimberly is twenty one she's

444
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 2: just graduated from college when she's diagnosed with something called

445
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: autoimmune Graves disease, an affliction which in many ways results

446
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: from being in a near constant, hypervigilant stress state.

447
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 3: It is one hundred percent like being on twelve cups

448
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 3: of coffee. I didn't drink coffee to this day, I

449
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: can't even drink green tea. But my nervous system was

450
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: so wired into the sympathetic state that my brain at

451
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: that point was feeling like something.

452
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 4: Is always wrong.

453
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 3: I wouldn't cognizantly say something is wrong, but my nervous

454
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: system was on a red al alert all the time.

455
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 3: And I'm sure you know I read books. When I

456
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 3: first was diagnosed with Graves disease, of course.

457
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 4: I wanted to fix it.

458
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: That was my solution, and their solution in the nineties

459
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 3: is to cut the thyroid gland out and medicate for

460
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: the rest of your life. I was losing weight rapidly

461
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 3: and eating just gobs of calories every day, and it

462
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: just was not handshaking, armpit sweating, just not sleeping, insomnia.

463
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: It's almost as if I was lifting off senator. So

464
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 3: the solution was to cut it out, but I did

465
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 3: not want that, and I attacked my mom and dad's

466
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 3: library of natural health cookbooks and gosh, herbal books and

467
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: psychotherapy everything on their self help shelves, and I took

468
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 3: some dietary measures, but I also read some where I'm

469
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 3: not sure if it's medically valid, but I also read

470
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 3: somewhere it's probably Louise Hay actually, I want to say,

471
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 3: because she would take diseases and then connect to them

472
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: with the psychological attribute or that what potentially was.

473
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 4: The cause cause of that? And she said it was grief.

474
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 4: And at the time, all.

475
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 3: Of this was the bible to me because it was

476
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 3: a form of control.

477
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 4: Oh it's grief, Okay, well, then I better go do

478
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 4: more grief work.

479
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 3: What wasn't being talked about was trauma, PTSD, nervous system

480
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 3: that's stuck in sympathetic.

481
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 4: Mode, and none of that was being talked about.

482
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 3: It was more about how do we control this and

483
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: how do we eliminate the cause. So, yes, Graves disease

484
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: is something that I managed, but erratically managed, and then

485
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 3: it definitely hit its worst state when I was twenty

486
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 3: six and my cortisol levels dropped to zero and I

487
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 3: was unable to stand up.

488
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 4: It was a nightmare.

489
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 3: Fortunately, I was in Portland at the time and I

490
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 3: had a really good physician who was also trained in

491
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: naturopathic medicine. He gave me steroids because he said, you

492
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 3: have no cortisol in your body, which was a result

493
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 3: of the thyroid just running, running, running, running, running, And

494
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: within two days of being on steroids, I felt like

495
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: a normal person again. My nervous system had burned me out.

496
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: And some would say, oh, yeah, the grief that caused that,

497
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 3: but I think this pattern was set way away earlier,

498
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 3: the hypervigilance and the anxiety. When I moved to Portland,

499
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 3: Oregon in two thousand and one to start the naturopathic

500
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 3: medical program, I just took a Craigslist job. It was

501
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 3: at a documentary film company, and I knew nothing about film.

502
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 3: But they handed me a box of phs and CDs

503
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 3: and said, watch all of these and log them. And

504
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 3: what they were creating was a twentieth anniversary video for

505
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 3: the Dougie Center. The Dougie Center is a wonderful international

506
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 3: organization that's based in Portland for breathing families, and I

507
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 3: would spend eight hours a day watching children talk about

508
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: their father's dying of suicide and murder and cancer and

509
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 3: watching mothers deal with it, and the woman who founded

510
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 3: the Dougie Center would discuss sort of the background of grief,

511
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 3: not necessarily the stages, but the importance of being able

512
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 3: to vocalize and find community through grieving. I was watching

513
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 3: one of her talks and she was discussing with a

514
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 3: group of teachers what to watch for, and she said,

515
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 3: I'm not too worried about the kids that are acting

516
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 3: out after a parent or a close loved one dies.

517
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 3: And I'm not too worried about the ones that sort

518
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 3: of withdraw because we can identify that they're suffering.

519
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 4: There's something happening. She said. The ones I worry.

520
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 3: About the most are the perfectionists, the ones that actually

521
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 3: become overachievers and they do everything right and nobody notices

522
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 3: them because they are continuing to excel in everything that

523
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 3: they do.

524
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 4: Of course, if this were played.

525
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 3: In a movie, this is when everything would slow down.

526
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 3: As I'm watching this and hearing over and over again

527
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 3: her talk about me, and she said, these are the

528
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 3: people that usually five ten years later end up their

529
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 3: body's breakdown.

530
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 4: And that was the.

531
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: Summer when my thyroid went bsserk, and that was the

532
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 3: summer that I found that doctor that saved my life, because,

533
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 3: like I said, at that point, I was I so lightheaded.

534
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 3: Every time I would stand up, my heart would shoot

535
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 3: up to one hundred and fifty beats per minute, and

536
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 3: it was a scary time. But I knew that I

537
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 3: was going to natropathic school in the fall and everything

538
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: was going to work itself out. Because that's what I

539
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: still was doing. I would just go through the motions.

540
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 3: I did sign up to train with the Dougie Center.

541
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 3: I wanted to be a facilitator. I was still skirting

542
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 3: around the truth of me. I was doing everything on

543
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 3: the outside that looked like, oh, kid's really dealing well

544
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 3: with life and grief and everything, but I was still

545
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 3: doing a really good job at burying it. So I

546
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 3: started naturopathic school and a month later, nine to eleven happened,

547
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 3: and I used that as an excuse to drop out

548
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 3: because I didn't want to be there. And I still

549
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 3: this day don't really that doesn't sound like me, you know,

550
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 3: like I'm still a little puzzled as to how I

551
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 3: felt so convinced after all these years of training and applications.

552
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 4: I just wow, Okay, I dropped out, and.

553
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: I'm proud of myself when I think about that thing.

554
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 3: Good for you, because that probably was one of the

555
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 3: first things I ever did that might have been a

556
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 3: little bit of my own gut telling me what I wanted.

557
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes a strange kind of sense. And also

558
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 2: I think that when there's a tragedy on a mass

559
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 2: scale like nine to eleven was, there's a way in

560
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: which if there's been, you know, a tragedy in an

561
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 2: individual life or suddenly and there's this collective grief, this

562
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: national global grief, there's a way that it can ship

563
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 2: away at and create kind of a ripple effect with

564
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: individual grief. After Kimberly drops out of her program, she

565
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 2: ends up dabbling in the film industry again. She isn't

566
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: certain that this is the right path for her, but

567
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 2: an editing job comes along and she takes it. During

568
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 2: this time, she begins to develop another dangerous compulsion born

569
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: from her perfectionism. She develops an eating disorder and disappears

570
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: into boleimic behavior, purging toward an impossible goal, as she

571
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: had done in the past with her skin picking.

572
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 4: I wanted to be empty.

573
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: There is a stillness that happened after I would purge,

574
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 3: where I would look in the mirror and I would

575
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 3: feel myself again. I would feel the pain and I

576
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 3: would feel.

577
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 4: Like, oh, what did you do? But I would feel.

578
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 3: Like I was looking at myself and in a weird way,

579
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 3: it connected me with that person. It quieted things down.

580
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: So the behavior would come and go. It was usually

581
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 3: around my period, and then sometimes it would be gone

582
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 3: for months and then it would rear its head again.

583
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 3: But it definitely had a sense of like, wow, I

584
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 3: thought this was over, and then here it is again.

585
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 3: So that was a period of two and a half

586
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 3: three years where I was flirting with the bulimia, working

587
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 3: in the industry a little bit, and also reapplying.

588
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 4: To go back to a naturopathic school because I didn't

589
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 4: know what the hell am I doing. That's also when

590
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:34,959
Speaker 4: I started modeling, just locally for fashion.

591
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 3: Shows and catalogs and things like that. But it ended

592
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 3: up being a good source of income and I actually

593
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 3: enjoyed it. I enjoyed finding that part of myself that

594
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 3: wasn't ashamed and it felt playful and joyful. It was

595
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 3: more of like the athletic Portland's full of athletic catalogs

596
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 3: and stuff. So it was playful, joyful, goofy. Not nobody

597
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 3: was talking about herbs or pills or supplements or medicines.

598
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: It was just frivolous, and I found some freedom in

599
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 3: that s as I took my life so seriously, so

600
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 3: there was actually some joy. Strangely enough, that came the

601
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 3: authentic joy that came from just doing something that I

602
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 3: never would have allowed.

603
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 4: Myself to do six years earlier.

604
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 3: So between thirty and forty, I drop out again. I

605
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 3: go to this naturopathic school, transfer to the Chinese medicine

606
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 3: school and do two and.

607
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 4: A half years.

608
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 3: There, and then drop out again, and then fall in

609
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: love with my current husband.

610
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 4: We developed a deep bond together.

611
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 3: I navigate his intellectually disabled daughter, who was eleven at

612
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 3: the time when.

613
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 4: We meet, and we sort.

614
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 3: Of navigate that chaos and also so grow into a

615
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: pretty thriving modeling career and mostly as we joke, kind

616
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 3: of like midwestern old lady catalogs.

617
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 4: But boy, we had fun and just travel.

618
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 3: The world and met some wonderful human beings and enjoyed

619
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 3: that part of being a woman and celebrating my body

620
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 3: in a way i'd never had before and having friendships.

621
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 4: That felt deep and rich. So that was all happening

622
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 4: for those ten years.

623
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: Do you think that you're you know, thriving modeling career?

624
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 2: I mean during that period of time, were you dialed

625
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: way back in terms of you know, self harming behaviors

626
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 2: or those kinds of behaviors. Did that Did that change

627
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 2: during that time? And if it did, what would you

628
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: attribute that to?

629
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 3: Yes, all of it went away. It literally went away.

630
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 3: I still carried a lot of anxiety, but I attribute

631
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 3: it partially to finally exiting the pressure I was putting

632
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 3: on myself to become a physician, and even more so

633
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 3: to the partner who is now my husband, because he

634
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 3: really rejected the fix it world. In fact, I did

635
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 3: it with his daughter when I first met her. Oh

636
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 3: she's got an election disabilities. Let's put it on a

637
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 3: gluten free diet. What's her you know, Let's take her

638
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 3: to get reikie, Let's do all these things.

639
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 4: Let's fix her, fix her, fix her.

640
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 3: And he was like, I want to love my daughter

641
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: the way she is. And I was really attracted to

642
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 3: that part of him. I always described him as like

643
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 3: this warrior in the forest, but his sword was down

644
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 3: and he was dented, you know, his gear was dented

645
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 3: and bruised and dirty, and he was not running, but

646
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 3: he was looking at the trees and noticing the light

647
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 3: pouring through the trees, and there was something that was

648
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 3: I was really drawn to this man who was very

649
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 3: surrendered to a pretty hard story and not happy a

650
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 3: lot of the time about it, either really in pain

651
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 3: about it, but not trying to make it anything else either.

652
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 4: So I wasn't doing it myself yet, but I was.

653
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 3: In his presence and it was teaching me, little bit

654
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 3: by little bit.

655
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 4: How to be that way.

656
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 3: I also picked up photography, absolutely fell in love with

657
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 3: being on the other side of the camera and finding

658
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 3: my creative life, finding that part that was the ballerina

659
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 3: who wanted an outlet and needed to express myself. I

660
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 3: began in those ten years to express myself. The modeling

661
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 3: was like one way, but that wasn't the real joy

662
00:41:54,160 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 3: that was coming from filmmaking and photography and discovering a

663
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 3: language that made sense to me and often was a

664
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 3: preverbal language that was more about composition and light and story,

665
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: the story that came with the image. So I think

666
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: I was finding something inside of me, finally that knew

667
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 3: how to express herself.

668
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 2: Kimberly's dented Warrior is named Dave. In twenty twelve, she

669
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 2: and Dave take up cycling together. They spend their weekends

670
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 2: biking a twenty six mile loop around Portland, stopping to

671
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 2: lie in the grass and enjoy each other's company. When

672
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 2: winter comes, it's too cold to ride, so they take

673
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 2: a break from their weekend ritual. In fact, Kimberly has

674
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 2: another winter time ritual ever since her dad passed. She

675
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: and her mom spend a week together in Mexico.

676
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 3: So February of twenty fourteen, we were in Mexico taking

677
00:42:55,000 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 3: our morning long walk and she starts RETI telling the

678
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 3: story which we've heard before, of this wonderful one night

679
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 3: stand she had in Toronto at the Maripos and Music

680
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 3: Festival with a man named Charlie. And of course this

681
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 3: is post her telling the story around the lake. When

682
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 3: there's a chance that your dad isn't your dad, this

683
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 3: was tied, you know, this story that she would tell

684
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 3: about Charlie and Toronto was tied to that. So if

685
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 3: there ever was a father that wasn't your father, this

686
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 3: would be the man. And I ended up just listening

687
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 3: to her tell the story, but she brought out so

688
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 3: many more details.

689
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 4: On this walk. She remembered his last name.

690
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 3: She remembered that he had a television show in Wisconsin

691
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 3: and it was called Long Ago Is All Around?

692
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 4: And I was like, what an interesting guy I remember.

693
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 4: On the flight.

694
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 3: Home, I had a layover in Denver and I googled

695
00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 3: his name finally the full name. Was never able to

696
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 3: google the full name before, and up pops.

697
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 4: One of his albums.

698
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 3: He was also a musician and a poet, and the

699
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 3: album picture took my breath away because it was the

700
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 3: male version of.

701
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 4: Me, and I didn't say anything.

702
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 3: I flew home the last leg, pulled up the photo

703
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 3: as soon as Dave picked me up at the airport,

704
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 3: and I didn't without any context. I showed it to

705
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: him and I said, who does this look like? And

706
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 3: he said, I don't know, but it could be your dad.

707
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 4: And something opened up in me of like, hm, I

708
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 4: need to investigate this more. I have more information.

709
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 3: And so fast forward to Mother's Day of that year.

710
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 6: I visit my mom for Mother's Day and on the

711
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 6: way home again, I guess I do a lot of

712
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 6: things in the airport finding out the producers of that album,

713
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 6: and it was the University of Wisconsin, and so I

714
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 6: called the University of Wisconsin.

715
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 3: Mibray from the airport, and I said, can you find

716
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,280
Speaker 3: I had any more information about this man named Charles Brower?

717
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 3: And she said, oh, it's you know, eight o'clock at night.

718
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 3: I have nothing else to do. Let me get on it.

719
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 3: I received an email that Monday morning that had his

720
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 3: obituary in it. Charles Brower's obituary. He died in a

721
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 3: sailing accident in nineteen eighty five when he was thirty

722
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 3: six years old, so I was ten years old, and

723
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 3: he was never found.

724
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 4: His body was never found. He started to go through

725
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 4: the roof that week.

726
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 3: Breathlessly, almost impulsively, trying to get as much information when

727
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 3: I could about this person.

728
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 2: We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets.

729
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 2: Remember Dave and Kim's bike rides. Well, the weather is

730
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: nice again, it's springtime in Portland and they're on their

731
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 2: first ride of the season. It's been a whirlwind of

732
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: a week for Kim making all these discoveries about her

733
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 2: biological father, so she's happy to detach for a bit

734
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 2: and get outside. But things don't go exactly as planned.

735
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 3: We were going down the main straightaway before we pulled

736
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 3: over to get onto the waterfront path, and a young

737
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 3: woman opened her car door in the bike lane and

738
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 3: I flew over the door and landed in the street

739
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 3: and cracked my pelvis and hit my head and had

740
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 3: a concussion. And that ends chapter two. If the other

741
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 3: one was my dad said this one ended chapter two

742
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 3: because everything changed after that point. I was on deadress,

743
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 3: so I had a lot of time to digest this

744
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 3: and think about it. I corresponded with the librarian a

745
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 3: little bit more.

746
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 4: She sent me a few of his TV shows that

747
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 4: I watched.

748
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 3: This suspicion grew inside of me, and as the suspicion grew,

749
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 3: I started to feel like what it was the hyperthyroid

750
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 3: symptoms before, like I started to feel this deep vibration

751
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 3: that wouldn't settle, even as I was on twenty four

752
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,919
Speaker 3: hour by address. It wasn't until August of that year

753
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 3: and I'm still at home in Portland and Davis making

754
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 3: me smoothies and scrambled eggs every day that I took

755
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 3: the DNA test.

756
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 4: My brother got it for.

757
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 3: Me, but I also remember him handing it to me, going, yeah,

758
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 3: you know, like really, what are the chances? And so

759
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 3: that's weird to say, because on the one hand, my

760
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 3: body's vibrating and on the other hand, my brain is

761
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 3: going no way, not chance. And the DNA test came back.

762
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 3: It was like three weeks and it came back as

763
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:10,919
Speaker 3: my brother was my half brother.

764
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 6: And that was a shock for everyone.

765
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 4: People have asked me, was I a shock for your mom?

766
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 3: Yes, it was a shock for everyone. I went upstairs

767
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 3: actually when I first got the email, and I just

768
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 3: brought my phone up with me, and I straddled Dave

769
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 3: because he was still sleeping, and I just.

770
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 4: Shoved at the phone in his face and it.

771
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 3: Said half brother, Eric Warner, half brother. And I think

772
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 3: what I do when I feel so unmoored and so ungrounded,

773
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 3: as I again try to find other people's responses and

774
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 3: find how am I supposed to respond here, you know,

775
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 3: And also fortunately he's porous and bigger boned, and I

776
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 3: just like my body needed something to ground me. So

777
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 3: I just wrapped myself around him and the weight of

778
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 3: his response because his response wasn't gonna be like whoa,

779
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:16,800
Speaker 3: holy shit, wow, you know, his response was huh, okay,

780
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 3: you know, like, let's digest this. So I needed him

781
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 3: desperately to ground this experience for me. That's when the

782
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 3: dizziness started. The dizziness did not come directly after the

783
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 3: bicycle accident, unfortunately, because a lot of the doctors. When

784
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 3: it did come, which started in March of the next year,

785
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 3: a lot of doctors were like, well, concussion syndrome, you know,

786
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 3: delayed concussion syndrome, something with your neck that happened. Everyone

787
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 3: was pointing to the accident because there was nothing else

788
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 3: for them to point at.

789
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 4: I would bring up.

790
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 3: This, you know, well I also got the DNA test,

791
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 3: and you know, just would just scratch his head and

792
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 3: dismiss it. So unfortunately that delayed the diagnosis for me

793
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 3: big time. But the dizzyness started intermittently. I remember walking

794
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 3: on the sidewalk and it was like dropping out underneath me,

795
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: and then that grew from the floor of bouncing under

796
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 3: my feet occasionally to half a day, and then about

797
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 3: a month later it was all day, every day, NonStop.

798
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 4: Lack of sleep.

799
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 3: I was starting to feel out of body. This was

800
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 3: a scary, terrifying out of body experience, where it was

801
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 3: as if my body was literally running its own course,

802
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 3: completely dysregulated. I was terrified to go to bed at

803
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 3: night because I would just lay there and feel the

804
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 3: feelings of the bed bouncing up and down, and my

805
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 3: sympathetic nervous system was contracting so much that I got

806
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 3: up to go to the bathroom twelve times.

807
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 4: Over and over and over again.

808
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 3: It was just hell. It was just absolute hell, and

809
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 3: I was only getting worse. I was trying to find

810
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: doctors that would help me. They kept pointing towards concussion

811
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 3: syndrome or something in my neck. No one was talking

812
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 3: about panic. No one was talking about anxiety. No one

813
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 3: was talking about, you know, any sort of vestibular migraine

814
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 3: disorder that can come from a severe panic disorder.

815
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 4: So I did.

816
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 3: The best I could with it, but then I ended

817
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 3: up having to get on a plane and live with

818
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: my mom for seven months because I was a mess.

819
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,320
Speaker 3: I couldn't even walk across the street without someone holding

820
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 3: my hand, and halfway across the street, I'd say, let's

821
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 3: turn around.

822
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 4: I got to go back inside.

823
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 3: You know, someone would knock on the door and I

824
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 3: would It was as if getting shot.

825
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 4: In the chest.

826
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 3: It was frightened all the time, and in hindsight. And

827
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 3: I've said this many times. I should have been sedated

828
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,240
Speaker 3: because my nervous system couldn't reset itself.

829
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 2: There's one silver lining to Kimberly living with her mother

830
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: for all those months. In all that togetherness, a moment

831
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 2: finally arrives in which her mother is not managing Kimberly's

832
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 2: reactions and telling her that it's lovely and wonderful to

833
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 2: be part of a mystery. Instead, her mother actually apologizes

834
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 2: to her.

835
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 3: My mom doesn't cry a lot, but when she does,

836
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 3: it gets my attention, and her jaw starts to tremble,

837
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 3: and her beautiful, glassy eyes get even glassier. And she

838
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: was about six inches from my face, and she grabbed

839
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 3: my arms and she looked in my eyes and she said,

840
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:51,760
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.

841
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry.

842
00:52:53,560 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 3: I didn't protect you, protect me, meaning tell you the truth.

843
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 3: Not that she even knew, because I truly believed that

844
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 3: she didn't know. But what they didn't do was take

845
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 3: that next step to find out the truth. So she

846
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:15,879
Speaker 3: was more concerned about keeping things together than finding out

847
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 3: the truth and potentially having everything fall apart. So wow,

848
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 3: I took that in. I really took that in. Danny

849
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:30,280
Speaker 3: it was healing and at such an overused word these days,

850
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 3: but it felt like a calm bath to me to

851
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 3: hear her and feel her and see her eyes looking

852
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 3: in my eyes and feel I felt her fragility. I felt,

853
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you were doing the best you could.

854
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 3: You were truly doing and you wanted all you ever

855
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 3: wanted was to protect me. All you ever wanted was

856
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 3: to protect me under a really, really, really challenging situation.

857
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 3: And of course, in the magical thinking world, I would

858
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 3: hope that that moment would be the moment where the

859
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:09,720
Speaker 3: dizziness would go away.

860
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 4: Oh I's on my feet again.

861
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be nice if everything was that neat and.

862
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 4: Tidy, wouldn't it?

863
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 3: I had a lot of those though I'm like, Oh,

864
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 3: this is it, here's the moment, this is it.

865
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 4: I'm better. But no, that didn't happen.

866
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 3: But it did deeply connect me to her story as

867
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 3: a young woman trying to figure things out, the chaos,

868
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 3: the insecurity, and it helped me feel compassion for her

869
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 3: and also for myself through all of that.

870
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 4: It just softened everything.

871
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 2: When did you actually receive the actual diagnosis, the actual syndrome,

872
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 2: reason that this was happening.

873
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 3: Years later, years and years and years.

874
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 4: Well, it happened in the pandemic.

875
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,839
Speaker 3: It was twenty twenty because I was able to find

876
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 3: a neurologist who specialize on this in Texas and he

877
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 3: was doing telemed so I didn't have to fly to

878
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,959
Speaker 3: Texas to see him. And he heard, you know, listen

879
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 3: to me for thirty minutes and said, you have mallet

880
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 3: deparkment syndrome. And it was a spontaneous onset, and spontaneous

881
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 3: onset happens typically when someone goes into a deep state

882
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 3: of panic and the neurotransmitters just get really jumbled up.

883
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 4: So this was years. I found lots of different.

884
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: Ways to cope with this, but it was tormenting me

885
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 3: for six years total. I'm on eight years now and

886
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 3: now I'm I have medication that's helping tremendously. But I've

887
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 3: also found psychologically a way deeper relationship with the chaos

888
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 3: within myself and allowing it and being compassion with it

889
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 3: and loving it that it basically tells my brain I'm

890
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 3: not in danger anymore. You know, when I stopped trying

891
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 3: to fix myself, my brain said, oh, you're not in danger.

892
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 2: So you know that Charlie has died, but you do

893
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 2: at a certain point contact his brother, your uncle, and

894
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: begin to learn something about his family, and in fact seem,

895
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 2: you know, to be embraced by his brother and his

896
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 2: whole family.

897
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:35,959
Speaker 3: That happened very shortly after I took the DNA test.

898
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 3: Like I said before, I am impulsive, and I think

899
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 3: that's how I learned how to deal with all that anxiety.

900
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 3: I would just jump in and then figure out how

901
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 3: to swim once I.

902
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 4: Was in there. So I wrote him a long letter.

903
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 3: I found him because he's a filmmaker of all things,

904
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 3: with two sisters who are artists. And I wrote the

905
00:56:55,239 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 3: letter to his studio and gave a lot of qualify

906
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 3: fires in there that said, please throw this away if

907
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 3: this is bringing up too much trauma. You know you

908
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: think I'm a lunatic. I'm sorry. Just hear me out.

909
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 3: I don't want anything from you. I just thought you

910
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 3: should know I won't feel have any hard feelings if

911
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:14,760
Speaker 3: you don't reach out anyway.

912
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 4: Qualifier qualifier qualifier.

913
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 3: He read the letter, and then his sisters were visiting

914
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks later. He printed it out, shared

915
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 3: with them and wanted to observe them reading it, and

916
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 3: all of their responses were. First of all, we kind

917
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 3: of thought this was going to happen, because apparently my

918
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 3: biological father was quite a ladies man, and they wanted

919
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 3: it to be true. They loved their brother deeply. A

920
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 3: couple of years ago, Dave asked, my uncle, how did

921
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 3: you respond when you first read that letter?

922
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 4: Was the very first thing you thought?

923
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 3: And he reached his hand out to me and looked

924
00:57:57,760 --> 00:57:59,959
Speaker 3: right in my eyes and said, I wanted.

925
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 4: It to be true.

926
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 3: You know, for this big hands and sixty year old

927
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 3: man to say that to me, it just shook me

928
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 3: to the core, Like, oh, and Matt is true for

929
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 3: the whole family.

930
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 4: It's a giant.

931
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 3: Family, you know, first cousins, second cousins.

932
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 4: I've met them all.

933
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 3: They all gather once twice a year.

934
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 4: They are deeply loving and at.

935
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 3: The same time really casual, you know, like there's no

936
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 3: big deal my family, the Warrners, let's sit down and

937
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 3: like light candles and psychologize it.

938
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 4: They're like, let's open a beer and go swimming. So

939
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 4: I felt at.

940
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 3: Home and I still feel at home with them. We

941
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 3: visit every year. That said, the very first time I

942
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 3: met them was right after the dizzyness had started, and

943
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 3: I had already bought the tickets for Dave and I

944
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 3: to go, thinking this dizziness is going to go away.

945
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 3: I don't know what this is, but it's not going

946
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 3: to last. Kept getting worse and worse and worse. The

947
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 3: night before our trip to visit them all, I had

948
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 3: to email them and say, I just got to let

949
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 3: you guys know, I'm not myself.

950
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 4: I don't know what's going on.

951
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 3: I haven't had a doctor's appointment yet about this, but

952
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 3: I feel crazy and I'm scared. And they all emailed

953
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 3: me back and said, we love you as you are.

954
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 3: Just come even if we see you for five minutes

955
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,479
Speaker 3: and give you a hug and then you go sleep

956
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 3: the whole time, that's fine with us.

957
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 4: We love you know. It was just like, don't worry,

958
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:28,919
Speaker 4: no big deal.

959
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 3: So we went and I was scared the whole time

960
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 3: and also deeply loved in that, which is kind of

961
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 3: cool to feel like.

962
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 4: When I first met them, I was a.

963
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 3: Mess, absolute mess. I mean I even went to urging

964
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 3: clinic once.

965
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 4: It was bad, and they just.

966
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 3: Were like, cool, let's go for a road trip.

967
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 4: Let's go drive, you know, and drop you off when

968
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 4: you need.

969
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 3: To, and here's a snack, and you know it was.

970
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 3: It was very sweet and healing, and that continue used

971
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 3: to this day to be my experience with my new family.

972
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 3: Meaning in purpose is really important when we are navigating chaos.

973
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 3: But I do feel that this I am in a

974
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 3: best place I've been in my entire life. And I

975
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 3: can honestly say that's because of all of the hardship

976
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 3: and the dysregulation and the pain and the suffering. It's

977
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 3: brought me to a place of peace now. And I'm

978
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 3: still dizzy, not as dizzy as I used to be,

979
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 3: but I am peaceful in the dizziness. And it's because

980
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 3: I finally stopped caring, not stopped caring about life. I

981
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 3: loved my life, but I stopped needing to fix myself.

982
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 3: I stopped needing to be a certain way in this world.

983
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 3: The dizzyness forced me to be exactly as I was

984
01:00:54,960 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 3: because I could not fix it. Twenty nineteen, I started

985
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 3: a documentary project called Unfixed, and this was before I

986
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 3: was medicated, but I was realizing that I was done

987
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 3: trying to find doctors to fix me because I spent

988
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 3: too much money and I was not getting any better.

989
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 3: So I thought, well, I'm just going to find some

990
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 3: people that are living with chronic illnesses that are doing

991
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 3: the same thing, because I don't know how to do this.

992
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 3: I don't have all I have on my shelf or

993
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 3: self help books, and I don't know how to un

994
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 3: self help myself. So my first subject was an als

995
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 3: patient and my second subject had tried geminal neurologya, which

996
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 3: is so.

997
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 4: Known as the suicide.

998
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 7: To these people that were living with excruciating and actually

999
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 7: terminal disorders, I was asking them, how are you embracing

1000
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 7: this and what does it look like when you hit

1001
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 7: rock bottom?

1002
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 3: What do you tell yourself? And how does your heart

1003
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 3: feel when the disappointment continues? And I'm just really trying

1004
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 3: to understand this process again, maybe in a way because

1005
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 3: I couldn't find my own feelings still, I'm trying to

1006
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 3: find what I'm feeling by hearing other people.

1007
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 4: Tell me and oh, yeah, that sounds right.

1008
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 3: And then the pandemic happened and I had twenty subjects

1009
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,959
Speaker 3: for this film and I was unable to continue doing

1010
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 3: sort of the large film crew situation, and I was

1011
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 3: desperately looking for their answers. So I decided to start

1012
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 3: having them record their answers into their smartphones, and we

1013
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 3: turned it into a docu series for two years. Every

1014
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 3: month they would reply to questions as profound as would

1015
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 3: you let go of everything you've learned since you're diagnosis

1016
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 3: in order to be healed?

1017
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 4: Or as simple as what's food like for you?

1018
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 3: And we just finished one a couple months ago on

1019
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 3: sex and what's intimacy like?

1020
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 4: And it's just was a.

1021
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 3: Deep hand and shake with humanity. I got the experience

1022
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 3: of feeling my own brokenness in community, and while they

1023
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 3: were submitting their videos and answers, I would submit them

1024
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 3: my answers so that they didn't feel like they're just

1025
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 3: sending them into this black box. And so we learned

1026
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 3: about each other, and Unfixed became so much more than

1027
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 3: a documentary.

1028
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 4: It became a community.

1029
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 3: It became a way for me to unwind my nervous

1030
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 3: system into allowing instead of fighting. And what really became

1031
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 3: clear was that once I finally just allowed the brokenness

1032
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 3: and the dizzyness and the anxiety to just be there,

1033
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 3: my brain didn't feel it was in danger anymore, because

1034
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 3: it can only feel in danger if I'm trying to

1035
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 3: get rid of it, and so my nervous system was.

1036
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 4: Like, oh cool, it's okay.

1037
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 3: And that's why I can say now that, yeah, I'm

1038
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 3: actually quite dizzy today because I definitely get dizzier when

1039
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 3: i'm nervous, and I was excited about this call, and yes,

1040
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 3: the room of moving around, is it bothering me? No,

1041
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 3: because my brain knows I'm fine and I'm not going

1042
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 3: to do anything to try to fix it.

1043
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 4: I'm just going to enjoy this conversation with you.

1044
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 3: So this, the dizziness specifically, has been a profound teacher

1045
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 3: for me in allowing experiences to be as they are

1046
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 3: and to hold them and to love them and have compassion.

1047
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 4: For them, and.

1048
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 3: Conversely or simultaneously see and hold and loves that in

1049
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 3: others as well. So I feel it's such a solidarity

1050
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 3: with humanity now that I never.

1051
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 4: Ever experienced before.

1052
01:04:55,280 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 3: I'm calm and I'm happy and I'm peaceful. Never thought

1053
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 3: this was possible given the way that I used to

1054
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 3: feel in.

1055
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 4: This body mine.

1056
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 2: What an extraordinary way to think of it, that our

1057
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 2: traumas can be our profound teachers to experience them, hold them,

1058
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 2: love them, have compassion for them, and see and hold

1059
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:27,640
Speaker 2: that in others as well, such beautiful and wise words

1060
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 2: from Kimberly Warner. To check out Kimberly's work, go to

1061
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 2: unfixedmedia dot com. Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio.

1062
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 2: Molly Zacour is the story editor and Dylan Fagan is

1063
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 2: the executive producer. If you have a family secret you'd

1064
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 2: like to share, please leave us a voicemail and your

1065
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 2: story could appear on an upcoming episode. Our number is

1066
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 2: one eight eight eight Secret zero. That's the number zero.

1067
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 2: You can also find me on Instagram at Danny Ryder.

1068
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 2: And if you'd like to know more about the story

1069
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 2: that inspired this podcast, check out my memoir Inheritance.

1070
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1071
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.