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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the It could happen here. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the podcast we're doing right now. It's a podcast about

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Speaker 1: how things are kind of falling apart, but maybe they

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Speaker 1: don't need to, or at least not as much as

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Speaker 1: they have been. I'm Robert Evans with me, as often

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Speaker 1: is my co host Garrison. Davis Garrison, UM say something

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Speaker 1: inciting to the audience. I'm on my second cup of coffee. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it is. It is the early morning for you,

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Speaker 1: by which I mean to eleven in the afternoon. Um,

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Speaker 1: also with us today. Our guest for this episode is

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Speaker 1: David Van Douson. Uh. David, you are the president of

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Speaker 1: the State Labor Council for the Vermont a f l

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Speaker 1: c i O and there's a bunch of stuff that's

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Speaker 1: interesting about your organization. Will dig into it in more

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Speaker 1: detail in a second, but first I just want to

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Speaker 1: say hello and thank you for being on the show. Now, David,

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Speaker 1: the big thing, I mean, the Vermont A f l

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Speaker 1: c IO has been in the news a couple of

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Speaker 1: times recently. The most recent one is y'all issued a

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Speaker 1: statement making you the coverage I've seen has said the

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Speaker 1: first labor organization of the us to like support gun rights.

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Speaker 1: I mean like as is stated in a lot of

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Speaker 1: the stuff you've put out, like Blair Mountain. There's a

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Speaker 1: long history of labor organizations making use of the Second Amendment,

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Speaker 1: but um, I certainly haven't heard of a labor organization

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Speaker 1: stating it the way you did, Which is basically the

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Speaker 1: case you've made, is because far right fascist organizations are

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Speaker 1: so heavily armed and any all of the gun control

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Speaker 1: policies being heavily debated, at least among liberals, are likely

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Speaker 1: to ignore those people while restricting the ability of working

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Speaker 1: class and particularly marginalized people to arm themselves. Um, you

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Speaker 1: do not support those regulations because you support the rights

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Speaker 1: of those groups to be able to defend themselves from fascists.

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Speaker 1: That more or less correct. Well, Look, we believe in

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Speaker 1: the right of the people to defend themselves, but our policies,

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Speaker 1: including that one, are not adopted by the elected leadership,

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Speaker 1: including myself. They're adopted by our members. We believe very

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Speaker 1: firmly and democracy participatory democracy. So with issues like this,

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Speaker 1: we're happy to bring into our convention, which we recently did,

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Speaker 1: and facilitate a full debate on the issue. So that's

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Speaker 1: exactly what we did. We talked about it, our rank

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Speaker 1: and file members talked about it. They made amendments, They

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Speaker 1: debated passionately different sides of the issue in a respectful way,

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Speaker 1: in a productive way. A number of amendments were made,

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Speaker 1: they were adopted, and then ultimately the resolution was passed

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Speaker 1: with over a two thirds majority of our record file

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Speaker 1: delegates in favor. So that's where we are right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have read a bit about this, including you know,

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Speaker 1: there's been some critiques from a representative from the a

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Speaker 1: f T, which is the local teachers union. But there

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Speaker 1: was also a member of the Vermont a f l

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Speaker 1: C i oh who essentially stated, like, hey, I didn't

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Speaker 1: actually agree with this amendment but or with this resolution,

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Speaker 1: but it was made democratically, and like I I support

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Speaker 1: the process by which it was done. Which is one

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Speaker 1: of the things I think is it is so interesting

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Speaker 1: here that this isn't like um UM a kind of

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Speaker 1: a group of activists at the top making declaration declarations.

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Speaker 1: This is an organization that is really um dedicated itself.

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Speaker 1: Increasingly too, I think a kind of progressive ism that

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Speaker 1: we we haven't really seen in an organized way, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of the American labor movement until recently. Well,

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about democracy in the labor I mean

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Speaker 1: we could be just as well talking about democracy in

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Speaker 1: society as such. The fact is is that organized labor

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Speaker 1: today is not particularly democratic, and we're looking to change that,

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Speaker 1: and our world is not particularly democratic now. The vision

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Speaker 1: that we hold our slate are progressive slate called United,

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Speaker 1: is one where we increase the means for direct, productory democracy,

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Speaker 1: both within labor and within our society. So of course

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Speaker 1: we're going to go to our members and our rank

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Speaker 1: and file and ask them to debate the issues of

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Speaker 1: our day and ultimately to make a decision on these

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Speaker 1: major political and social issues. This was one we again,

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Speaker 1: we do believe that people need to have a right,

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Speaker 1: the working class needs to have a right to defend itself,

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Speaker 1: and we can't bury our head in the stand. Anybody

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Speaker 1: that's even followed a little bit of the news lately

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Speaker 1: will know that between November up until late January, we

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Speaker 1: were one general shy of a coup in this country,

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Speaker 1: in the upside down world that we're now living in.

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Speaker 1: It was because of the joint chiefs of Staff and

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Speaker 1: the head of the c I A not supporting a

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Speaker 1: coup that a neo fascist cou didn't totally in fold

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Speaker 1: materialized in a more mature form. Let that sink infament.

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Speaker 1: Our democracy, or the vestiges of the democracy we have

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Speaker 1: in the United States right now, is precarious. H They

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Speaker 1: just because as they've been there for two hundred years

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're gonna be there tomorrow. The new playbook

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Speaker 1: from an increasingly far right Republican party is to limit

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Speaker 1: as much as they possibly could a people's right to

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Speaker 1: vote and to participate in the political process. We see

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Speaker 1: this happening in Texas, We see this happening in Georgia,

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Speaker 1: we see this happening in Florida. We see this happening

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Speaker 1: in Red. Uh I shouldn't say red, but I should

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Speaker 1: say Republican states all throughout the US. So these are dangerous,

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Speaker 1: dangerous times, right, so dangerous that our top generals were

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Speaker 1: trying to decide what their position would be and make

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Speaker 1: plans in case a coup, a full encoup, not just

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Speaker 1: a hint of a coup, came into being within the

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Speaker 1: last year of our republic. Now, given those realities and

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Speaker 1: giving the rise of the far right, given that our

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Speaker 1: former president Donald Trump told the neo fascist Proud Boys

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Speaker 1: to stand what do you say, stand back and stand by. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. And now at least they claimed that forty

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Speaker 1: thousand members around the United States and they are aren't. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we can't just rest in our laurels and

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Speaker 1: pretend that the state as such is going to keep

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Speaker 1: us safe. So it seems prudent and reasonable for us

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Speaker 1: to have taken the action and say we defend our

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Speaker 1: constitutional right to bear arms as intended to defend our communities.

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Speaker 1: They defend our unions, to defend the working class. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things that because we were just talking

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Speaker 1: about the the coup that very nearly got pulled off

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Speaker 1: your organization, at least in uh, I believe it was

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Speaker 1: right after the election, issued a statement that if the

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Speaker 1: president illegally attempted to stay in power, the former president,

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Speaker 1: you would participate in an attempt to help organize a

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Speaker 1: general strike. Now that's something we talk about a lot

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Speaker 1: on this show. We're big believers in the potential of

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Speaker 1: a general strike. Were also big believers that the kind

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Speaker 1: of general strike that we need to I don't know,

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Speaker 1: potentially get climate justice and a number of other major

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Speaker 1: things is an undertaking on par with the space race.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're talking about an enormous task. I'm really

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Speaker 1: interested in picking your brain on when we talk about

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Speaker 1: a national general strike, what is the kind of infrastructure

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Speaker 1: that's actually necessary to make something like that feasible. Because

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of talk on like Twitter and Facebook

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Speaker 1: of like, let's just do a general strike on this

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Speaker 1: day in October. I six months doesn't go by. As

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Speaker 1: President l c I o Vermont, where I don't left,

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Speaker 1: this group of some kind contacted me to endorse their

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Speaker 1: general strike, right going to shut down on datas and

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Speaker 1: it's yet to happen, at least in our country. So

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Speaker 1: that's a great question. A couple of things. When we voted,

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Speaker 1: and again this wasn't a decision of myself and the leadership.

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Speaker 1: This was a decision we went back to the rank

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Speaker 1: and file with to our to one of our conventions

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Speaker 1: of our delegates. After our long debate, voted to authorize

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Speaker 1: the elected the active board to call for a general

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Speaker 1: strike in the event of a coup, in the event

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Speaker 1: that there wasn't transfer power on January as the constitution requires.

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Speaker 1: It was our feeling that in that very specific space

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Speaker 1: and time in that very specific political climate, um, we

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Speaker 1: would be able to call for such a strike and

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Speaker 1: with a serious amount of work and a serious amount

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Speaker 1: of organizing, pull that off and make that happen. And

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Speaker 1: the thought was if we could do it in Vermont,

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Speaker 1: because the call was a further Mont general strike, then

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Speaker 1: it could spread to other states, which would be absolutely

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Speaker 1: necessary if there was if our country descended into a

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Speaker 1: fascist dictatorship of some sort. But generally speaking, when we

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Speaker 1: talk about climate issues, when we talked about the fact

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Speaker 1: that millions of Americans don't have healthcare or aren't paid

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Speaker 1: liv wages, all of these issues are at least these

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Speaker 1: issues together certainly warrant us looking at things like a

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Speaker 1: general strike. But they're a bit it's a bit phine.

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Speaker 1: This guide to think that, hey, we got ten great

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Speaker 1: issues that we want to see progress on, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: call for our striking is going to happen. The infrastructure

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Speaker 1: is not there, nor is the political will within the

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Speaker 1: large labor bodies at this praised present time. Without participation

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Speaker 1: from organized labor, first of all, I don't think anything

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Speaker 1: is going to happen. So you're gonna have to achieve

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Speaker 1: buy in a certain level. But even with buy in

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Speaker 1: from key leaders or even a localized shop stewards, you

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Speaker 1: still need to have infrastructure in place. So one of

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Speaker 1: the things that lacks in the a f l C

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Speaker 1: i O as a national organization, we don't have an

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Speaker 1: effective network of local union contacts in every shop, at

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Speaker 1: every shift, in every factory that's represented by union, let

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Speaker 1: alone the majority of workplaces at this point that aren't unionized.

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Speaker 1: So what our top priority is as far as the

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Speaker 1: Vermont a fl C goes over the next two years,

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Speaker 1: is to build a network of local union contacts in

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Speaker 1: every single shop and every single shift that we represent

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Speaker 1: folks here in Vermont. So we see this as a

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Speaker 1: way to increase communication. Without communication, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: be able to pull off mass mobilizations and what and

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Speaker 1: also you're not going to be able to conduct mass

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Speaker 1: education on issues X, Y or Z. So over a

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Speaker 1: period of two years, we're looking to build this network

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Speaker 1: that would function not as a one way means of communication,

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Speaker 1: but almost a two or three way. Imagine that this

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Speaker 1: is a way for the rank and file to communicate

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Speaker 1: up to the leaders. This is a way for the

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Speaker 1: leadership to communicate down to the ranks, I mean down

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Speaker 1: to the lunch room level of what it means to

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Speaker 1: be in a union shop. And also ideally it's going

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Speaker 1: to be a way for local union leaders to horizontally

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Speaker 1: communicate with each other. With such a structure in place

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Speaker 1: on a grand scale, on a state scale, on a

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Speaker 1: federal scale, then things like organized general strikes over political

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Speaker 1: issues and social issues become feasible. And even when they're feasible, though,

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Speaker 1: then we still have the political question of you know,

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Speaker 1: will they be supported by the internationals? Will you be

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Speaker 1: supported by the executive board of the National a fl

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Speaker 1: C O. And that's a huge conversation, you know. So, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting to me hearing your perspective on this, because

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Speaker 1: my experience with kind of activism UM has been much

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Speaker 1: more of kind of the decentralized and kind of much

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Speaker 1: more recent groups, you know, since occupy. Um, you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with these these structures that in a lot of cases

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Speaker 1: or I mean the a f l c I O

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Speaker 1: goes back like what like a century, right one one

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Speaker 1: way or the other. Yeah, you know, I think um

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Speaker 1: because of kind of how shall I say, online, A

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Speaker 1: lot of the discussion about this stuff seems to be

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Speaker 1: organized labor often gets left out. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I think is most important when talking about

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Speaker 1: the value that organized labor has in any kind of

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Speaker 1: discussion if a general strike is what happened during the

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Speaker 1: during the budget uh negotiations or whatever you want to

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Speaker 1: call them in twenty nineteen, where you you had UM

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Speaker 1: airline workers threatening a general strike that effectively brought it

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Speaker 1: into a present and saber rattling over over the budget

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Speaker 1: like it's it's president Sarah Nelson. Yeah, headlines over that

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Speaker 1: and that was the right thing to do, absolutely to her,

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Speaker 1: and would love to hear in a stronger positional leadership

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Speaker 1: than asked. Oh well, I'm interested because I see a

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Speaker 1: lot of potential in Obviously, organized labor has had a

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Speaker 1: lot of problems, particularly in the last you know, during

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Speaker 1: my lifetime, UM, And I think part of it is

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Speaker 1: what you said earlier, there's it's not as democratic as

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Speaker 1: it should be at most levels. UM. What you guys

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Speaker 1: have done with United is attempting to reform that, you

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Speaker 1: know within Vermont. I'm wondering, first, how did that kind

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Speaker 1: of come about? You know, nineteen is when you first

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Speaker 1: got got put into office, When when the United state

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Speaker 1: got put in the to the office in Vermont. What

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Speaker 1: was kind of the back story to that? And then

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Speaker 1: my second question is kind of do you see as

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Speaker 1: necessary to like what what what's what's the fight as

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Speaker 1: you see it to get stuff like that done on

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Speaker 1: a larger scale around the country. So our story in

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Speaker 1: Vermont is probably a lot like the story of organized

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Speaker 1: labor in many different places. Our starting point. So in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seventeen, not that long ago, Ah, we

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Speaker 1: had a convention with something like twenty or twenty five

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Speaker 1: delegates there. Imagine that twenty delegates representing ten at the time,

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Speaker 1: ten thousand grown since, but ten thousand members and that's

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Speaker 1: called the democracy. So there was a problem, an existential problem.

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Speaker 1: Now I come out of asked me localeen in the

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Speaker 1: northeast kingdom of Vermont. So when I got together with

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Speaker 1: a number of other leaders from different unions, different asked

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Speaker 1: me locals but also United Academics is part of a

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Speaker 1: f T the building trades. A number of folks, uh

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Speaker 1: the it was a general recognition at the leadership level

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Speaker 1: that something was very wrong. Member participation was weakest can

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Speaker 1: be and things had to change. And we continually as

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Speaker 1: an organization, you know, with some exceptions, hitch our wagon

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Speaker 1: to the shortcomings that are the Democratic Party. So all

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Speaker 1: of these things together led to inactivity, apathy, and lack

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Speaker 1: of democracy. So we started going around, We started talking

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Speaker 1: with workers, we started talking with shops across the state.

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Speaker 1: And one of the first things that was striking. People

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Speaker 1: would say they would know what union they're n be

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Speaker 1: A A PWU or asking or whatever it was. But

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Speaker 1: we'd say, listen, we're talking. We're thinking about running a

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Speaker 1: slate progressive slave for office with to take the a

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Speaker 1: f l c i O in a new direction. The

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Speaker 1: next thing they would say, is, what's the A f

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Speaker 1: l c I M. Think about that? Right, workers involved,

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Speaker 1: some of which were union stewarts and their locals didn't

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Speaker 1: even know what the A f l c I O was.

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Speaker 1: So that was our starting point. It was an excellent

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Speaker 1: crisis of labor. And mind you, during these what I

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Speaker 1: would call some dark periods, we would often endorse a

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Speaker 1: hundred candidates for state House, nearly all of which being Democrats,

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Speaker 1: and then we they would win. They would win their elections,

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Speaker 1: like largely our candidates win, and then we get nothing

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Speaker 1: in the state House. Right, there'd be no labor bill,

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Speaker 1: there'd be no advancement of card check, differently the organized labor,

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Speaker 1: and yet we keep repeating the same mistake year and

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Speaker 1: year out and not figure out that something was wrong.

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Speaker 1: So when we formed the United State as a coalition

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Speaker 1: of a number of different unions to recognize it was

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Speaker 1: time for change, we really brought the discussion into the

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Speaker 1: grassroots level. We developed a ten point program we called

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Speaker 1: our Little read Book. It's now the policy and the

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Speaker 1: platform of the Vermont FLA, and we ran an organized

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Speaker 1: campaign based on that right at a very local level.

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Speaker 1: And here we did all the things that you know

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Speaker 1: you should be doing, the phone calls, the emails, the

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Speaker 1: shop visits, all of this and created a sense of

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Speaker 1: excitement going into our two nine convention. Our two thousand

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Speaker 1: nineteen convention with over if I recall over a hundred

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Speaker 1: and five delegates and alternates, was the largest convention we

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Speaker 1: had up here in in something like thirty plus years.

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Speaker 1: So that was an exciting atmosphere where something was going

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Speaker 1: to be different and something was going to change right.

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Speaker 1: So we swept. We essentially slept those elections. We want

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Speaker 1: all the seats except for one. We had a follow

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Speaker 1: up convention in two UM sorry election in two where

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Speaker 1: we won every single seat, and then in the last

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Speaker 1: election UM we won all seats except for one where

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Speaker 1: one person who's a good, good person from the building

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Speaker 1: trades ran but was not part of our state. So

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Speaker 1: the real question is what have we done in the intern,

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Speaker 1: how are we changing that direction, and how we changing

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Speaker 1: trying to seek to change the capacity of labor and

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Speaker 1: what lessons does it add to the national agroom. I

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Speaker 1: would suppose so on that for one of the first

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Speaker 1: things we did is we took money out of our

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Speaker 1: lobbying operation and put it into an organizing department, whereby

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Speaker 1: we would hire and we have hired on call organizers

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Speaker 1: to assist our affiliates in either new organizing or internal organizing,

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Speaker 1: therefore delivering an actual benefit to our affiliate unions. Now,

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Speaker 1: mind you, we represent just about every sector of workers

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Speaker 1: all across the state, but forever they very rarely got

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Speaker 1: a concrete, measurable acts of solidarity from the federation as such,

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Speaker 1: right because all of a lot of too many of

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Speaker 1: the resources were put in belombing. And we also took

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Speaker 1: a critical eye towards the Democratic Party, and recently we've

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Speaker 1: instead endorsed the Social Democratic Form Progressive Party slates and

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Speaker 1: their runs for state house and in statewide office and

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Speaker 1: any cases. So we've done a few things differently. We're

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Speaker 1: continuing to do things differently. We've expanded the size of

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Speaker 1: our executive board so you we elect more leaders now.

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Speaker 1: We've more than double the size of the delegates afforded

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Speaker 1: to each local so we could have more rank and

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Speaker 1: foot file voices present when we're meeting at a convention.

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Speaker 1: And we've taken a strong um social justice position where

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Speaker 1: we think that organized labor must work very closely in

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Speaker 1: an alliance form alliances with groups like Migrant Justice or

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Speaker 1: Black Perspective or environmental organizations like three fifty dot org.

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Speaker 1: And we've done those things, worked on their issues where

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Speaker 1: we have common interests, and we've asked them to support

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Speaker 1: us on our issues where where they may have some

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Speaker 1: common interests. So those are things that are very different

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Speaker 1: that the National a f LC has not doing. Other

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Speaker 1: state labor federations largely aren't doing enough, and we're hoping

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Speaker 1: now to build that out. And we're engaging conversations seeking

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Speaker 1: to form a national Progressive Caucus within the National AC

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Speaker 1: And I think that's so important when you talk about

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Speaker 1: kind of on the national level for progressives Number one

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Speaker 1: to not not continually kind of reflectively support the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party when the Democratics parties is failing progressives, which you know,

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Speaker 1: we have a perfect case study right now in Congress

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Speaker 1: with the the Reconciliation Bill. UM. It often does seem

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Speaker 1: like such an insurmountable task just because the inability like

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Speaker 1: a bill the three point five trillion dollar infrastructure bill,

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Speaker 1: is so widely supported by Americans, but it it just

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Speaker 1: keeps coming down to this tiny number of folks with uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, financial interests in donors, um, who are who

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Speaker 1: are pushing against something that's widely supported. And I feel

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Speaker 1: um optimistic when I look at state organizations like what

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Speaker 1: y'all are doing and the fact that I can see

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Speaker 1: something building, But I also it does is such a

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Speaker 1: titanic task to imagine translating that on a national scale

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Speaker 1: in a way that actually gets us the things that

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Speaker 1: you know, we we really can't wait for when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about some of this infrastructure stuff, when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about healthcare, when you're talking about climate justice, Like I

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Speaker 1: do feel the clock ticking, um, and I'm wondering what

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Speaker 1: you see as the hope on the national scale for

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Speaker 1: actually putting some muscle behind the progressive movement. Well, look,

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Speaker 1: it's not just the the issues of the infrastructure bill

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Speaker 1: and the budget bill. It's also the Proact right the

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Speaker 1: bill that is language in the Senate. And let's not

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Speaker 1: lose track of the fact that those efforts are all

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Speaker 1: stalling and likely very likely to fail. And I hope

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Speaker 1: they don't because of Democrats, because the Democratic Party is

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Speaker 1: not united. They ran on a platform saying they were

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Speaker 1: going to do X, Y and Z, and now when

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Speaker 1: they're in a position to carry it out, they're not

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Speaker 1: going to do it. And Joe Manchin uh far as

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Speaker 1: i'm can turned, uh call him a class trader, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think he's ever was part of the working class.

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Speaker 1: He claims to support the Proact, but in the same

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Speaker 1: breath he he won't get rid of the filibuster. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's absolute bullshit as far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 1: So how do we change that? Well, the national A

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Speaker 1: f l c I O puts millions and millions and

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars into elections. We have gotten so many

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Speaker 1: of these people elected and back them in Arizona and

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Speaker 1: West Virginia, you name it, and then we get nothing back.

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Speaker 1: If we were to take that money instead and put

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Speaker 1: it into a robust new organizing department or a recrafted

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Speaker 1: organizing department and actually assigned reel on the ground organizers

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Speaker 1: in every single state in the country to help our affiliates,

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Speaker 1: to help our state federations and their affiliates to internally organized,

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Speaker 1: to build a kind of network I talked was talking

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Speaker 1: to me about before, and to be active and build

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Speaker 1: alliances the Social Justice Group, our power would be amplified

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Speaker 1: five million fold. This is the way we do it.

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Speaker 1: Politicians aren't going to do what's right because it's right.

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Speaker 1: Politicians are gonna do what's right when they feel so

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Speaker 1: much pressure that they have to do it. Now, the

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Speaker 1: victories that we saw for working people during the Great

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Speaker 1: Depression under FDR, that wasn't just because FDR thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is the right thing to do. It's because people

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Speaker 1: are going on strike, because people were organized because they

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Speaker 1: were scared of revolutionary change in this country. So turned

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Speaker 1: to meaningful, true, true um of major reforms as a

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Speaker 1: way to blunt that perceived threat that they have. And

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Speaker 1: that's what we got to get back to not our

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Speaker 1: power is never gonna grow from people who are wearing

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Speaker 1: ties in Washington. Our power is gonna grow based on

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Speaker 1: our solidarity on the shop floor and in our communities.

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Speaker 1: So that's the direction we gotta go, and we got

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Speaker 1: to do that rapidly, very rapidly. It's been clear to

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Speaker 1: me for quite a while both that the reason workers

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Speaker 1: gain so much in the wake of the Great Depression

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Speaker 1: and the only kind of hope we have for doing

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Speaker 1: that now is UM, they have to be scared, you know,

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Speaker 1: to an extent, they have to be scared of of

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Speaker 1: what's arrayed against them, both in its organization and in

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Speaker 1: its ability to disrupt things. UM. And I I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: what you think people listening, people UM, who maybe are

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Speaker 1: not involved in organized labor, Like what what what do

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Speaker 1: you think people can do to further those ends? Like

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Speaker 1: this is like when we when we start talking about

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Speaker 1: national level A f L C, I O politics, that's

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Speaker 1: not something I think most people listening feel like they

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Speaker 1: have any kind of ability to influence. UM, what do

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Speaker 1: you think they can influence? What do you think people

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Speaker 1: can be doing to build that kind of capacity? Well,

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Speaker 1: you gotta be active, and you've got engage in the

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Speaker 1: flip go on social movements. But also most folks, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna have a job of some time, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of folks aren't getting treated the way they should

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Speaker 1: in their job. I don't care if you work in

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Speaker 1: a coffee shop, in a restaurant, or in a gas station,

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Speaker 1: or in manufacturing, and you could start by organizing with

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Speaker 1: your coworkers to form a union today. You know, you

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Speaker 1: could reach out to a local union to ask for help,

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Speaker 1: or you could do it on your own. Frankly, but

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Speaker 1: if we're not organized as working people, and we are

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Speaker 1: we are most of the world. If we're not organized

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Speaker 1: amongst ourselves, we're not going to be able to become

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Speaker 1: that expression of power that we need to be in

434
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: order to create the change. If we're just a collection

435
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: of individuals, then the ruling class, the wealthy, the powerful,

436
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: the elite, they're gonna have all their ducks in a

437
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: row to keep us divided and to keep their foot

438
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 1: on the pedal of the status quo. So we need

439
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: to come together, We need to organize in the natural

440
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: place to organize is in the workplace. In my opinion, yeah,

441
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: I mean it. It is the natural place to organize.

442
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: It's also become an increasingly difficult place to organize. We

443
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: all watch what Amazon did in Bessemer this year, know, UM,

444
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 1: And and that fight is still ongoing to an extent. UM,

445
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: but it is Uh, it is a continuing challenge, UM

446
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: to to actually effectively unionized in a lot of the

447
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: industries where it matters most you know, UM, Like we

448
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: have some choke point industries, like we talked about aircraft

449
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: employees that are heavily unionized, thankfully, and that do have

450
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: a lot of power, as has been demonstrated recently when

451
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: they when they go to the mat. UM. But I

452
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,719
Speaker 1: I'm interested in kind of we we've got, you know,

453
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: Amazon employees is really one of the areas that I'm

454
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: looking at where my god, if if we could actually

455
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: if something significant could actually get off the ground and

456
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: a significant number of those workers could get organized, it

457
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: could make a real difference. UM. But know you've got

458
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: effectively what are community organizations for the most part going

459
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: up against UM. You know, Amazon at this point has

460
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: more resources than most nations states. Yeah, but so did

461
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: the Carnegies and the Rockefellers and the folks like this

462
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: and and are particularly and it's always been hard, uh

463
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: too long ago in our country, maybe during our grandfather's day,

464
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: where there was a very good chance you'd be shot

465
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: or at least beat over the head with a club

466
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: from the Pinkerton's if you try to organize. Organizing has

467
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 1: never been easy. And such as Columbia today, trade unions

468
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: are killed at an unbelievable clip, almost on a daily basis,

469
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: and yet still they organized. So I'm not suggesting to

470
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: any of your listeners that if this is easy, what

471
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: I am that it has to happen. It has to happen.

472
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: And there's different models too, Like in some places, one

473
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: of the models that's been effectively used as forming workers centers, right,

474
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: so that's not a traditional union, a center in a

475
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: city or in a community or in a town where

476
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: workers come together and strategized, right at a in a location,

477
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: to strategize how to be effective as a group, as

478
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: a whole, as a class on issues that are important

479
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,479
Speaker 1: to them, you know, be an economic, be its social,

480
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: be it um finding against racism, whatever it may be.

481
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 1: That's a model that I suggest folks could could look

482
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: into as an alternative way if for whatever reason you

483
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: don't feel that the time is right for a union

484
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: in your shop today, although it needs to be tomorrow.

485
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: Take a look at workers center and see if there's

486
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: one in your community. Get involved. If not, get together

487
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: a few people and see what it would take to

488
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: start when where you live. But one way or another,

489
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: we have to be organized, we have to come together.

490
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: We cannot just be a collection of individuals. That's a

491
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: great point, UM, and useful information. I think kind of

492
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: the last thing I wanted to get into UM was

493
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: one of the things I first learned about your organization

494
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: that you issued a solidarity statement back and I think

495
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: it was two thousand nineteen UM with the YPG and

496
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: J in Rojaba. UM. And you've issued you know it

497
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: stated your solidarity with Black Lives matter, with the Zapatista's

498
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,959
Speaker 1: currently what they're undergoing in Mexico, UM, which is massive

499
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: repression from the government yet again, UM. And you know

500
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: your support of Palestinian rights and of against sort of

501
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 1: the U S occupation or not occupation, but a blockade

502
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: of Cuba. UM. What do you see when we're talking

503
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: about this struggle, this broad struggle we've be talking about

504
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: all day, what do you see as the role of

505
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: internationalism in both in both organizing people in organizing resistance. Well,

506
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: our starting point today is capital is international. So if

507
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: we're going to have a foundational challenge to the power

508
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: of capital, we also have to be internationalists in our outbum.

509
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: We supported the YPGPJ and the newly elected government in

510
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: Rojava because they are struggling for economic equity and a

511
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: direct cont history democracy in that corner of the world.

512
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: We see this as the most significant revolution in in

513
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: the world, uh, in generations. I mean this in our

514
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: mind is on far with the Spanish Civil War and

515
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: what we saw around Barcelona and the CNT them or

516
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: the Paris Commune of seventy one. If this was happening

517
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: in Europe, a day wouldn't go by where this wouldn't

518
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: be front page news. But in the Western world we

519
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: often the corporate media terms of blind blind eye to

520
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: many of those starts. So they're doing their part and

521
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: we have to do our part in our country to

522
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: the Zabatistas are doing their part in Schiapas in broadways

523
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: in some regards in Mexico as such, but we need

524
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: to reach our hand out in encouragement and say Hey,

525
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: we're here to support you. One of the things we

526
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: sought to concretely do in the Vermont labor movement is

527
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, one of our Central Labor count

528
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: Council's passed the resolutions for We said, look, if you

529
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: go over to fight and volunteer with the YEPG and

530
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: y p J, because there's thousands of volunteers right uh,

531
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: they're are volunteered to go over. If you return and

532
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: you're American, will hook you up with a union job

533
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: and we'll hook you up with three months of room

534
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: and board so you could get reacclimated, you could get

535
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: back into the community and get back into the local

536
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: fight through the labor movement. And we were proud to

537
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: actually uh have an opportunity to do that for one

538
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: returning American fighter in our latest resolution in two one.

539
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: And this one was broader because it was the whole

540
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: vermonti a FO, not just the Central Labor Council. We

541
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: again offered, we encourage folks to feel so inclined if

542
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: they're in that place in their life to volunteer with

543
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: the YPG and y p JA, and if they're Americans

544
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: and they come back, we're happy to hook you up.

545
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: We'll do our best to get you a good union

546
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: job when you return. So we felt that was a

547
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: very small least we could do, kind of thing, but

548
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: concrete way to provide solidarity. We all have to stand together.

549
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: It's really one fight. But the place we're going to

550
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: be effective is where you live locally, in your town,

551
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: in your city, and your state and in your country. Yeah.

552
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: I think that's a great note to end on and

553
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: a great thing that you all are doing. And I

554
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: really do appreciate that, and I appreciate you, David coming

555
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: on and talking to us today. Um, is there anything

556
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: else you wanted to to to get out or anything

557
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: you wanted to like any you know, charities or mutual

558
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: aid funds or whatever you wanted to uh push before

559
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: we kind of roll out today. I'd just like to

560
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: push for folks to go to workout tomorrow and organize,

561
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: organize with your follow workers and let's change the world solidarity.

562
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: Thank you, David, Robert Evans here and I wanted to

563
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: ask for your help. There is a Portland area woman

564
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: Ruba to me me. She's an Arabic interpreter and a

565
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: Palestinian liberation activist and she is trying to save her home.

566
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: At the moment, she's got to go fund me. If

567
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: you go to save Ruba's House, are you be a

568
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: on go fund thank You'll find it. Save Ruba's house

569
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: on go fund Me. You've got a few bucks. She

570
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: could really use it again Save Ruba's House? Are you

571
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: be a at go fund Me? Thanks? It Could Happen

572
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

573
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone

574
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I

575
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

576
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

577
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks

578
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: for listening