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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. This is Kristen, This is Molly, So Molly.

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Speaker 1: Since we're talking about breastfeeding today, I thought i'd share

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Speaker 1: a recent anecdote that happened in our house Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: offices to MOI, uh, we have a dedicated lactation room.

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Speaker 1: We were one of those offices that does what it

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Speaker 1: can to provide nice facilities for um lactating moms. And

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Speaker 1: it's basically, you know, as as you probably know since

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Speaker 1: you work here. It's an old office you know, still

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Speaker 1: got a phone in it and everything. And one morning

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Speaker 1: I needed to I need to use the phone. I

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Speaker 1: just needed a quiet place to use the phone. And

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Speaker 1: the lactation room was open because it was, like I said,

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Speaker 1: it was early in the morning. And what I didn't

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Speaker 1: know was at the door locks behind you. So I

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Speaker 1: went in there and got all my stuff there and

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Speaker 1: try to make a phone call and the person wasn't

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Speaker 1: available yet, So I decided to leave and then come

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Speaker 1: back later. So I came back and lo and Behold,

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Speaker 1: the lactation room was locked. I was locked out, yes,

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Speaker 1: with someone in there using it. No, No, the door

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Speaker 1: was just the door was just locked. And um, so

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Speaker 1: I knew that our office manager had a key, so

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Speaker 1: I went around looking for him, and lo and behold,

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Speaker 1: he is in our break room. And it was in

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Speaker 1: the morning, so it was pretty crowded with people this morning.

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Speaker 1: It was all men, all getting coffee, all talking about football.

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Speaker 1: I kid you not. So I was just standing there

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Speaker 1: awkwardly in the doorway, trying to, you know, like telepathically

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Speaker 1: communicate to our office manager that I needed him to

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Speaker 1: come out of the break room and talk to me.

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Speaker 1: And finally he saw me, and and all of the

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Speaker 1: men noticed me standing awkwardly in the doorway, and um,

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Speaker 1: he asked me what I needed. I said, well, Michael,

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Speaker 1: I uh, I need to get into the lactation room,

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Speaker 1: at which point all the men in our office, knowing

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Speaker 1: that I am, you know, not a not a mom,

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Speaker 1: not married, uh, kind of got pretty quiet. And I

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Speaker 1: noticed I've traveled stealthily or not so stealthily from from

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Speaker 1: my face do my bust, and at which point I said,

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Speaker 1: it's for the phone, not for these and blushed and

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Speaker 1: walked away awkwardly. Would you say you learned any lessons

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Speaker 1: about using the lactation room for non lactation purposes? Never

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Speaker 1: closed the door behind even the lactation room. Do you

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Speaker 1: find yourself with the house stuff works offices and you

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Speaker 1: need to make a phone called a lactation room, make

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Speaker 1: sure the doors cracked because you're not getting back in

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Speaker 1: A good lesson, A good life lesson for everyone, I think.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's great though, that we do have

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Speaker 1: the lactation room for women who you know, who do

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Speaker 1: need to use. I think it's nice because it's really not.

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Speaker 1: It's not all that common, you know, it's not. I

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Speaker 1: just wrote an article called dust Breastfeeding Make Better Babies,

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Speaker 1: which is what we're going to discuss today, and it

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Speaker 1: was kind of disheartening to see around this country how

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Speaker 1: hard it is for working moms too to pump their

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Speaker 1: breast milk for later use. Right. Not only is there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of people uncomfortable with the thought of

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Speaker 1: women breastfeeding in public, which has angered many mothers. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can understand and women have even had There was

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Speaker 1: an incident a couple of years ago when Barbara Walters

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Speaker 1: made a comment about how, um, a woman who is

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Speaker 1: breastfeeding next to her on a plane really made her uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: and um, as a result, a bunch of women got

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Speaker 1: together and had a what do they called a breast

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Speaker 1: in a feed in I think outside the ABC offices

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Speaker 1: because she mentioned this on the view, and uh, it

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Speaker 1: really angered a lot of these women who were saying,

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Speaker 1: like we were constantly being uh judged for breastfeeding our

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Speaker 1: children in public. But you know what I mean, we

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Speaker 1: can't babies. Babies don't know where they are, they so

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Speaker 1: that they need the milk right. And so when I

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Speaker 1: was researching this, it was amazing just how much judgment

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Speaker 1: there is on every single side of this. And I'm

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Speaker 1: sure we're gonna get tons of mail no matter um

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Speaker 1: how we how we phrase this podcast, Christian, because it

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Speaker 1: seems like right now women who do breastfeed are judged

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Speaker 1: for doing it in public for not doing it, and

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Speaker 1: you know what other people deem an appropriate place, um,

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Speaker 1: women who don't breastfeed, or judge for maybe not not

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Speaker 1: doing what's best for their babies, which was sort of

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Speaker 1: what this article goes into, whether it really is best

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Speaker 1: for a baby, And you know it just it's I

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Speaker 1: think it's kind of sad that moms who are already

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Speaker 1: stressed out enough have to deal with all this judgment

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Speaker 1: just by she's by feeding a child. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I would venture to say that breastfeeding is the number

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Speaker 1: one most contentious issue involved with motherhood today, right, so

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Speaker 1: let's just get into whether it's really something to be

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Speaker 1: contentious about. I was really struck by learning that, UM,

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Speaker 1: the US Department of Health and Human Services ran these

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Speaker 1: public service announcements UM and two thousand four and two

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Speaker 1: thousand and six that showed pregnant women writing mechanical bulls

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Speaker 1: and then they'd fall off, and then the commercial will

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Speaker 1: be like, you wouldn't take risk when you're pregnant, why

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Speaker 1: take risks when you're having a new baby, saying, basically,

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Speaker 1: the risk of writing a mechanical bowl while you're pregnant

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Speaker 1: is the same as the risk that not breastfeeding your

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Speaker 1: child in curse. Yeah, and the the American Academy of

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Speaker 1: Pediatrics Pediatrics currently recommends the mother's feed their babies exclusively

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Speaker 1: with breast milk, and that it's not necessarily breastfeeding, that's

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Speaker 1: just breast milk. Right, For the first six months of life.

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Speaker 1: So we've got these you know, big government health institutions

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Speaker 1: saying you know, breast milk is best. Yes. And I

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Speaker 1: think the reason that, um, we needed such a big

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Speaker 1: campaign about this in the United States is I think

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Speaker 1: that more than any other country, two things happened. One, Um,

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Speaker 1: we sexualized the breast to the point that people got

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Speaker 1: freaked out at certain points when a woman would whip

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Speaker 1: it out to feed a child. And Two, I think

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Speaker 1: that our society is more susceptible to sort of the

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Speaker 1: formula arguments that came about in the late eighteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: Like you said, in the late eighteen eighties, baby formula

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Speaker 1: arrived on the market and women start to think that

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Speaker 1: they were unable to breastfeed. Um. And it might have

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Speaker 1: been because doctors were actually paid off by formula manufacturers

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Speaker 1: to tell this to these new mothers, right, And so

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Speaker 1: it became kind of, um, a lower class thing to breastfeed,

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Speaker 1: because if you could afford the formula, then you would

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Speaker 1: give formula to your chat. And it seemed to be

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Speaker 1: a very scientific thing. Some doctors who were telling women

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Speaker 1: that the children weren't getting enough to eat when they breastfed,

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Speaker 1: so they'd say measure out exactly this many ass of formula,

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Speaker 1: and that way you can be sure that your doctors,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that your children get enough to eat. And

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Speaker 1: even before formula came around, a lot of the upper

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Speaker 1: class women would have wet nurses who would breastfeed their

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Speaker 1: children for them. So there was still this kind of

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Speaker 1: societal stigma involved with with breastfeeding in the US. Right,

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Speaker 1: So the shift back to the breast comes around the

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifties to the nineteen seventies. In ninety eight we've

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Speaker 1: got the formation of La Leche League, a famous support

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Speaker 1: group for breastfeeding women, and it was a group of

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Speaker 1: Catholic moms who said, you know what, God wants women

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Speaker 1: to use their bodies to breastfeed. And then just a

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Speaker 1: few years later, nineteen seventy one, the famous book Our Bodies,

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Speaker 1: Ourselves comes out and shows women that their bodies are

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Speaker 1: not to you know, please men, that breasts aren't just

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Speaker 1: you know, sexual objects, that they are uh endowed with

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Speaker 1: a purpose to give breast milk to baby. So I

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Speaker 1: think that that was sort of the real revolution, a

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Speaker 1: combination of UM Catholic moms and feminists. So we have

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Speaker 1: this cultural history UM with breastfeeding. But what do studies say,

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Speaker 1: Because this is where things kind of start to get tricky, because, um,

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Speaker 1: as we'll find out in a in a few moments,

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Speaker 1: a lot of these studies, UM seemed to say that

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Speaker 1: breastfeeding is the best you know, it's going to prevent

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Speaker 1: all the host of diseases from your infant. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time, when you look closer at all of

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Speaker 1: these studies, uh, they aren't as iron clad as you

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Speaker 1: might think, right. And when I started researching all these studies,

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Speaker 1: it was just amazing all the benefits that get promised women.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it really does seem like this magical lixir

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Speaker 1: of life. UM. The t s A. You know, you

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Speaker 1: can only carry three ounces of UM liquids on board

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Speaker 1: of plane. They classified breast milk as liquid medicine so

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Speaker 1: that women could carry more of it. And so UM,

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Speaker 1: there's this, you know, just this big ship that what's

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Speaker 1: in that milk is the absolute best thing, the most

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Speaker 1: nutritionally balanced meal you can give an infant. UM. Now,

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Speaker 1: the things that the diseases and conditions that breast milk

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Speaker 1: promises to prevent our sudden infant death, syndrome, respiratory infections, meningitis, pneumonia, diarrhea,

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Speaker 1: ear infections, asthma, diabetes, autoimmune diseases such as crons and leukemia,

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Speaker 1: just to name a few. I mean, it is study

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Speaker 1: after study of diseases that are that are promised to avoid. Now,

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Speaker 1: I will say Christina, and I started reading all these studies,

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Speaker 1: I felt a little bit biased because I know that

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Speaker 1: I was not breastfed, and I'm I'm a healthy person.

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Speaker 1: I think, I think I'm a superre specimen of human

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Speaker 1: being and so um. I really started to kind of

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Speaker 1: dig deeper because I was like, surely my mother would

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Speaker 1: not disadvantage me so much just by feeding me a bottle.

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Speaker 1: You know, is this true? Because the American Academy of

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Speaker 1: Pediatrics is saying that if all babies were breastfed, we

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Speaker 1: would save three point six billion an annual healthcare a coffs.

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Speaker 1: Right and uh and Molly, I was a breastfed child,

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Speaker 1: and because of that, according to research, I was given

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Speaker 1: a rich formula of natural antibodies, hormones, neuropeptides, and natural

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Speaker 1: opioids that right now formulas can't necessarily replicate. And that

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Speaker 1: is why they think that breast milk has all of

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Speaker 1: this life giving magical properties, right, And you know it's

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Speaker 1: not just good for the baby. There's tons of stuff

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Speaker 1: about how good it is for a mother to um.

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Speaker 1: It probably lessens depression and the mother thanks to the

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Speaker 1: oxytocin that's in the blood in the breast milk UM,

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Speaker 1: it can help you heal after childbirth and you have

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Speaker 1: a lower risk of heart attacks, stroke, diabetes, and osteoporosis.

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Speaker 1: But the thing about it is is that all these

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Speaker 1: studies are not as iron clad as as they might seem, right,

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Speaker 1: because it comes down to this whole issue of correlation

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Speaker 1: versus causation. And this was there was an article written

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Speaker 1: by Hannah Rosen earlier this year in the Atlantic. It's

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Speaker 1: highly controversial, and she um basically said that, well, I

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Speaker 1: think she does breastfeed her children. But she said that, um,

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Speaker 1: all these studies heralding the amazing benefits of breast milk

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Speaker 1: UM are not very consistent and that they can only

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Speaker 1: show an associative relationship and not a causal relationship. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In other words, you can't say that the actual breastfeeding,

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Speaker 1: the milk coming from the breast directly into the child's body,

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Speaker 1: is causing all these beneficial outcomes. Um. In fact, it

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Speaker 1: my just be more of the time spent with a child,

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Speaker 1: and that that closeness to physical closeness to the mother,

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Speaker 1: and also just other factors that might lead a woman

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Speaker 1: to breastfeed. Right now, in this country, the women who

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Speaker 1: breastfeed are largely upper class. They have really great educations. Um,

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Speaker 1: they're probably in good shape themselves. So let's take something

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Speaker 1: like obesity. The study says that breastfeeding UH lowers the

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Speaker 1: rate of childhood obesity. Does the breast milk do it?

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Speaker 1: Or does the fact that you have a healthy, educated

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Speaker 1: mother who knows you know what to serve for dinner

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Speaker 1: so that you can balance meal and takes you out

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Speaker 1: for walks does that? Is that what makes the difference?

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Speaker 1: Is it just you know, being born into a house

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Speaker 1: where a woman takes the time to educate herself about

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Speaker 1: breastfeeding versus a woman who you know is busy in

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Speaker 1: works and may not be around as much when you're

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Speaker 1: an infant. It's just impossible to separate out all those factors.

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Speaker 1: And I will say, you know, I worked in UH.

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Speaker 1: I worked in daycare for a couple of years, um,

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Speaker 1: a lifetime ago. It seems like now and I worked

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Speaker 1: in the infant room for a while and you could

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Speaker 1: definitely see the difference between the children who um received

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Speaker 1: a lot of parental interaction when they weren't in daycare

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Speaker 1: and the ones who might not have. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think there really is a developmental curve with that. I

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Speaker 1: mean I say that from just a very um anecdotal perspective. Um.

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Speaker 1: But still, I think one of the most telling studies

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Speaker 1: to talk about when we when we're discussing breastfeeding is

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Speaker 1: this thing um called probit Yeah. Um. And it was

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Speaker 1: conducted in two thousand one by Michael Kramer of McGill University,

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Speaker 1: and basically he evaluated the breastfeeding effects on seventeen thousand

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Speaker 1: children in Belarus. Yeah. And the thing that really is

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Speaker 1: kind of unique about the study is all the other studies.

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Speaker 1: In addition to not being able to separate out um,

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Speaker 1: those you know, coinciding factors, it's also people who are

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Speaker 1: self selecting into a certain study. You know, you're saying, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm already breastfeeding study me, and women are saying, okay,

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Speaker 1: well I'm not going to speed you can study me.

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Speaker 1: So it's not very random, which is usually a factory

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Speaker 1: like to see in scientific studies, and also um, scientific

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Speaker 1: studies really don't have the ethical ability to tell a

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Speaker 1: woman what to breastfeed, I mean, what how to feed

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Speaker 1: a child, so they can't say, hey, you breastfeed and

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Speaker 1: you don't. So you know, these groups aren't really random.

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Speaker 1: You're getting um kind of a bias group to start with.

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Speaker 1: So that's what Kramer tried to address in this study

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Speaker 1: because rather than telling a woman how to feed their children,

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Speaker 1: he just followed women who had been breastfeeding, and some

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Speaker 1: of them received this inter intervention where they were told, hey,

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Speaker 1: breastfeed more, it's the best thing for your baby, and

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Speaker 1: the other women were just sort of allowed to stop

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Speaker 1: when they were going to stop anyway. And so then

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Speaker 1: he compared those two groups, the women who didn't breastfeed

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Speaker 1: as long as the group that received an intervention and

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Speaker 1: did breastfeed longer. So, in a nutshell, Kramer's research showed that, yes,

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Speaker 1: breastfeeding is a little bit better than than formula feeding,

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Speaker 1: but it's not necessarily These are near words, Molly, from

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Speaker 1: your from your article, if I may quote you, the

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Speaker 1: universal panacea that its supporters claim, because they said the

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Speaker 1: extended breastfeeding can reduce the risk of eczema and also

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Speaker 1: reduced a risk of gastro intestional intestinal infection by UM.

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Speaker 1: And in addition, Kramer found that breastfed babies scored seven

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Speaker 1: point five points higher on i Q tests than other babies,

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Speaker 1: but he said that those results really weren't that statistically significant, right,

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Speaker 1: and those are just verbal tests UM. Two point nine

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Speaker 1: tests on non verbal intelligence UM. One of my favorite

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Speaker 1: quotes when I when I was reading this articles, Kramer says, yes,

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Speaker 1: seven point five points higher on i Q test, which

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Speaker 1: I saw just duplicated on all sorts of breastfeeding sites.

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Speaker 1: But Kramer says, it's not like this is the difference

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Speaker 1: between a genius and a mentally retarded child. That's a

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Speaker 1: direct quote I wasn't mine, UM, And he said he

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Speaker 1: actually likened them to the difference between a firstborn child

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Speaker 1: and a second porn child, because think of how much

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Speaker 1: extra time you have to vote to that first born child, UM,

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Speaker 1: and then when you have the second child, it's not

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Speaker 1: like you give them any less care, but your tensions

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Speaker 1: are divided somewhat. And so studies have shown that you know,

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Speaker 1: birth order matters, and it may just be that maybe

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Speaker 1: the only difference that breastfeeding maybe comes down to. It's

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Speaker 1: just that difference between a firstborn child who's continually followed

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Speaker 1: around to make sure that everything is stimulating and nothing

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Speaker 1: is painful, versus the second born, who admittedly maybe falls

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Speaker 1: down a little bit more. And you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: less deemed precious. You know, Molly were you was second

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Speaker 1: and that was the first born, which is why I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about how smart they are. But you know, um,

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Speaker 1: you just have more time with that firstborn. And maybe

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Speaker 1: that's the difference in the i Q and the and

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Speaker 1: the breastfeeding. Yeah, and and I thought it was interesting

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Speaker 1: that they scored higher on verbal intelligence because Cramer suggested

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Speaker 1: that those benefits are coming from the time spent with

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Speaker 1: the mothers. And you would think, you know, the mother

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Speaker 1: is gonna be sitting there, She's probably gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: to her baby. You know. Maybe uh, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe they just pick up language a little little quicker

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Speaker 1: because of that. Yeah time, I think that you sit

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Speaker 1: there and you coo with the baby. Now, I'd be

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Speaker 1: interested to see a study where, like, um, a woman

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Speaker 1: just focuses exclusively on breastfeeding versus a woman who breastfeeds,

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Speaker 1: but like watches TV at the same time or talks

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Speaker 1: on theself and at the same time, Like, I wonder

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Speaker 1: how much of it has to do with like looking

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Speaker 1: at the baby and talking to the baby. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know, that's that's a big question for me. But

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Speaker 1: obviously with working mothers today, we don't all have time

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Speaker 1: to breastfeed our children. We have a lactation room in

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Speaker 1: our office for working moms who can't breastfeed, but they

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Speaker 1: still want to give their children breast milk, and so

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Speaker 1: they use this thing called a breast pump. Right. And

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Speaker 1: this UM, despite being a very common access rate for

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Speaker 1: women in the workplace today, only really came on the

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Speaker 1: marketplace in the previous to that was mainly just a

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Speaker 1: hospital accessory UM. But now that maternity leaves in the

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Speaker 1: United States are so short, women are buying them and

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Speaker 1: taking them to work, and you in the lactation room

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Speaker 1: when Kristen isn't in it making her phone calls. So

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Speaker 1: just reading UM this research when I was wearing this

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Speaker 1: article where it seems that breastfeedings benefits come more from

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Speaker 1: the time you spend with your child, I just wonder

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Speaker 1: if women are going through a lot of unnecessary pain

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Speaker 1: to pump out breast milk. But there are Like we

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Speaker 1: said earlier, though, there are certain antibodies and chemicals in

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Speaker 1: your breast milk that formula cannot replicate. True right now,

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Speaker 1: True that could be beneficial um for the child. When

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Speaker 1: I was researching this article, I came across a few

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Speaker 1: things that compared breasts to placentas and that they take

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Speaker 1: over the role that the placenta serves when the baby

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Speaker 1: is in the womb in terms of delivering all these

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Speaker 1: essential nutrients to a child. But I did find a

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting piece on Salon that talked about how while

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Speaker 1: most people think that the breast milk pumps all these

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Speaker 1: anybodies into the blood stream like the placenta does, it

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Speaker 1: actually just feeds all those nutrients into the gastro intestinal track,

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Speaker 1: which makes sense when you think about how many digests

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Speaker 1: of elms might be prevented by breast milk. Is Cramer found. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: He points out that the author points out that basically,

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Speaker 1: once the babies in the placenta, they're receiving all the

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Speaker 1: antibodies from the mom that they ever will even after

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Speaker 1: after birth. But he also points out that the breastfeeding

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Speaker 1: can predict against diar real ailments in three ways because

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Speaker 1: we always see those uh those studies, survey study results.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me saying that breastfeeding can benefit their gastro intestinal health,

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Speaker 1: and he says that, um, it's preventing the chance that

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Speaker 1: formula could be mixed with contaminated water. And they're also

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Speaker 1: not taking in contaminated food. And then finally, because like

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Speaker 1: you said, the maternal antibodies are going straight into the gut,

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Speaker 1: those antibodies actually de activate swallowed bacteria and viruses otherwise

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Speaker 1: would infect the cells. Right, So maybe the baby is

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Speaker 1: exposed to the flu virus, which would manifest itself with

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Speaker 1: a lot of vomit, diarrhea, other growth things. Because the

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Speaker 1: antibodys are straight to the gut as opposed to the bloodstream,

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Speaker 1: that might be what prevents uh, actual infection, but didn't.

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Speaker 1: Hannah Rosen in the Atlantic piece also point out that

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Speaker 1: those results would, in real world terms, uh, shake out

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Speaker 1: to maybe a baby having one less case of diarrhea

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Speaker 1: every year, right, one and forty babies I think would

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Speaker 1: have one less day of diarrhea, which doesn't sound that

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Speaker 1: um conclusive, and I mean doesn't sound that exciting in

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Speaker 1: real world terms. But I guess when it's your baby

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Speaker 1: and it's one less day of diarrhea, that's something. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I did think that that piece UM by Sydney

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Speaker 1: Spiezl that we're talking about with how the baby, how

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Speaker 1: the milk was strange the gut was interesting because UM,

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Speaker 1: it was talking about how babies know they're full by

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Speaker 1: the precise way in which breast milk comes out of

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Speaker 1: the breast. There's four milk, there's hind milk, and it

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Speaker 1: teaches the baby that they're done feeding when the hind

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Speaker 1: milk comes out. And so by pumping it all gets

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Speaker 1: mixed together. And it's possible that when you put it

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Speaker 1: in a bottle, the babies don't know when they're done

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Speaker 1: quite as well, and bottle fed babies don't know what

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Speaker 1: might not know when they're downe quite as well, and

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Speaker 1: that may be the difference in the case of childhood

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Speaker 1: obc Um. You know, it seems that there's a study

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Speaker 1: from Temple University that showed that UM, when you feed

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Speaker 1: a baby from the breast, everyone's more in tune the

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Speaker 1: baby and the mother to knowing when the baby is full,

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Speaker 1: whereas if it's a bottle of milk that you paintstakingly

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Speaker 1: pumped in the leftation room. You might be inclined just

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Speaker 1: to say drink it all baby. Yeah, I mean, you

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Speaker 1: know you worked for it. You gotta gotta use it

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Speaker 1: well and then or lose it well and then finally

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Speaker 1: just a kind of toss. One more study in here

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Speaker 1: that questions this whole correlation causation factor that that keeps

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Speaker 1: coming up. Um. There was one that was published in

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Speaker 1: the British Medical Journal that suggests that breastfed babies would

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Speaker 1: cope better was stressed than bottle fed babies. But once

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Speaker 1: again they Researchery's question whether or not that was the

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Speaker 1: role of the breast milk or the mother child interaction

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Speaker 1: in shaping those neural pathways. So I think with this

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Speaker 1: whole does breastfeeding make for a better baby argument um

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Speaker 1: or debate if you will. Uh, it's still so. I

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Speaker 1: think it's just still such a shady area, And it

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Speaker 1: seems the only thing that seems conclusive from all of

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Speaker 1: these studies. The one strand that runs through all of

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Speaker 1: them is the importance of time spent with the infant right,

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Speaker 1: which I think is why it's so disheartening that there

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Speaker 1: is so much judgment around this issue. If a woman

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Speaker 1: decides not to breastfeed or is unable to breastfeed for

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Speaker 1: some medical reason, if she goes home and spends all

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Speaker 1: that one on one time with the infant, I think

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to make the argument that that baby

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Speaker 1: will be disadvantaged or not as smart down the road

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Speaker 1: as a baby that was breastfed. And so I think

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Speaker 1: that this is just an issue where it be nice

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Speaker 1: if there was a little less judgment. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: do think that breastfed women don't need that guilt of

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Speaker 1: you know, feeding when they have to. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that there is. It's only twenty one states along with

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Speaker 1: the puertourry go and do see that require employers to

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Speaker 1: make a quote reasonable effort to accommodate nursing mothers and

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Speaker 1: not to mention, you know, just the problem. I think

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Speaker 1: there was a case with um with Starbucks where women

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Speaker 1: wanted to go into the bathroom to breastfeed or no

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Speaker 1: women were breastfeeding in a Starbucks and the employees would

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Speaker 1: come up and ask them to go into the bathroom.

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Speaker 1: And because of that, there was a huge letter writing

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Speaker 1: campaign to Starbucks and now Starbucks is, you know, very

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Speaker 1: pro breastfeeding, but I think that yeah, on all sides

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Speaker 1: of whether your breastfeeding or not. I mean there's just

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Speaker 1: there's judgment from from all sides, which I think is

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Speaker 1: very unfortunate. But let us know what you guys think,

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Speaker 1: uh thoughts on breastfeeding. We welcome them. Yeah, guys who

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Speaker 1: want to hear from you too. You might not be able,

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Speaker 1: you might have vestigial nipples, but your opinions are not vestigial.

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00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: How about that. So, now that we have officially welcomed

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00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: your opinions to mom stuff at how stuffworks dot com,

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00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: will read a few people who have are written to us.

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00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 1: And since we just talked about breasts, I'm going to

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00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: read an email from Joe that talked about our bra episode.

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00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: Uh do bras for any purpose? It had one of

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00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: my favorite subject lines in a while, called what up bra?

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00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: That is true? Um? He says, of course that he

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00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 1: doesn't have any firsthand experience with bras, but he understands

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00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:15,959
Speaker 1: that we women have it tough. He writes, it's not

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00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: just mens constantly starting at your chest, but there are

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00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: also stigmas among women. Again, the judgment Okay, sorry that

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00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: was my aside, not Joe's. Joe writes, if it's okay,

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00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 1: I'd like to share a little story about a friend

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00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: of mine. Will call her M, and my boss at

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00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: the time will call her BE. About seven years ago,

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00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: I worked at a jewelry store and a small suburban

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00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: rural town northwest of Atlanta. The manager was a woman

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00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: in her sixties and my friend was in her twenties.

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00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: Being that was a jewelius store, especially when in a

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00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 1: rather conservative small town, professional dress was expected and enforced.

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00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: M had no problem with this and always wore a bra,

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00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 1: a top, and a card gainner business jacket. But she

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00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: was a skinny girl who was naturally well endowed be

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Speaker 1: a conservative woman whose concerned was often about appearance and propriety,

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00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 1: and from the customer have been making comments to cover

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00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: those things up to M over several weeks. This was

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00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: in reference to MS nipples, which, in our cold work environment,

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00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: had the habit of prominently poking out through three or

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00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: four layers of clothing. M tried to comply with what

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00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: she told me, we're thicker bras and an extra top,

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00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: but she didn't make enough to change her entire wardrobe,

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Speaker 1: even though her dress was always followed, has always followed

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00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: the guideline step by the company. The harassment by the

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00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: older lady put M at her wits end. Things came

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00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: to a head when b, frustrate the m s nipples

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00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: were again visible, went up to M and flicked her

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00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: nipple through her shirt hard. I can't imagine why the

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00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: conservative woman will be driven to the point of madness

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00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: and think this was an appropriate action. But when I

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00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 1: saw her do what she did, my jaw hung open

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00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 1: and utter shock. The event humiliating my friend to the

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00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: point that she seed the company for sexual harassment, but

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00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: it ended up settling on a court and getting a

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00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: transfer to a different branch. I suppose the point of

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Speaker 1: the stories that while you advise your female listeners to

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00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: go without, if they feel comfortable enough to do it,

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00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: it's probably best to do it with discretion. There are

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00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: still social stigmas in place today. They can cause forward thinking,

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00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: bright young woman humiliation and harassment for no other reason

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00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: than adherence to an to quated ideas of Victorian era propriety.

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00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: What a story, Joe, I know. So again another example

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Speaker 1: of how judgment can just affect our daily lives. Breasts

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00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: judgment breast judgment all over the name of my first book,

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00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: A memoir by Molly Edmunds. Um Well, if you guys

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00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 1: have any thoughts you want to share with us again,

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00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: our email is mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com.

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00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: And if you'd like to head over to our blog,

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00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: it's called how to Stuff. And if you want to

488
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: read Molly Edmunds wonderful article does breast Feeding Make for

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00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: Better Babies? Which will include all of the studies and references,

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00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: et cetera that we that we made today. If you

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00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: want to fact check us, head on over to how

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00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands

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00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it How stuff works dot Com

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00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready, Are you