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Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underware. Listening toast, you

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything brought to you by first Light. When

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Speaker 1: I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds,

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Speaker 1: no compromise, gear that keeps me in the field longer,

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Speaker 1: no shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it out at

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Speaker 1: first light dot com. That's f I R S T

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Speaker 1: L I T E dot com. Join today by Caleb Hubbard,

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Speaker 1: the veterinarian entomologist of the Hubbard Entomology Lab at New

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Speaker 1: Mexico State University. We're here to talk about the screwroom

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Speaker 1: Can we call it an epidemic pandemic? How it's gonna

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Speaker 1: kill everybody? No, No, I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I like make it seem good, like make it seem vital.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the things is that I'm

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Speaker 3: trying not to cause panic. They think that that's kind

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Speaker 3: of the biggest thing, But it is a kind of

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Speaker 3: a big problem. So the screwroom fly is this parasitic

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Speaker 3: fly that feeds on living flesh. The US had done

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Speaker 3: a really good job of pushing it out of the

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Speaker 3: United States, out of Mexico down to Panama. We've kind

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Speaker 3: of been holding it there for the last twenty or

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Speaker 3: so years, but since twenty twenty three we've essentially had

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Speaker 3: cases of it that have been occurring. There's been fifteen

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Speaker 3: thousand or so cases in Mexico, and as of November

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Speaker 3: of this year, there was a case sixty miles from

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Speaker 3: the US border. So it's a it's come in to

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Speaker 3: a cow near you, correct, Yeah, And if you look

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Speaker 3: on the USDA's APHIS website, they say it's not a

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Speaker 3: concern of getting into the US, but we do have

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Speaker 3: cases that are close and so it's something that getting

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Speaker 3: the information out there is kind of the biggest thing

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what I've read about in the news, they make

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Speaker 1: it seem like, you know, when we reached out wanting

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Speaker 1: to get someone about screw worms. Reading about in the news,

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Speaker 1: it's like moving at an alarming rate. Yeah, come to

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Speaker 1: a cown near you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very much so, or a cow or any wildlife

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Speaker 3: or humans or Fido, your dog. So uh, it'll pretty

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Speaker 3: much feed on on any vertebrate, they say, even birds,

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Speaker 3: But for the most part, it's gonna be your you know,

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Speaker 3: your larger animals. Uh, your companion, animals, things like that.

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Speaker 1: But but yeah, okay, we're gonna dig in on that

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Speaker 1: that this is, this is, this is good in a veterinarian.

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Speaker 1: That's just so folks knowing entomology explain what an entomologist is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So an entomologist is someone that that studies

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Speaker 3: insects or bugs in different ways. Yeah, My backgrounds veterinary entomology,

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Speaker 3: So that means that I work with really all the

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Speaker 3: all the pests that cause disease or you know, are

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Speaker 3: are problematic in animal and animals. Traditionally we're working with

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Speaker 3: you know, livestock, so cattle, pultry, things like that. But

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Speaker 3: I'm actually a at New Mexico's I'm hired as an

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Speaker 3: urban entomologist. So that's all the creepy crawleys that kind

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Speaker 3: of bother you in around your home. So if that's bedbugs, cockroaches, scorpions,

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Speaker 3: anything like that. But I justify also that something like

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Speaker 3: screwworm or or my background is in flies. You know,

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Speaker 3: no one likes flies in their house and so it's

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Speaker 3: kind of like, you know, any of that interaction with humans,

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Speaker 3: and so that's where you know, I come in with

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Speaker 3: all this kind of screw worm stuff.

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Speaker 1: But you got you got just thrown hardcore into the

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Speaker 1: screworm situation.

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Speaker 3: Though I would say that I got thrown into it,

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Speaker 3: but I think I I initially volunteered and then was

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Speaker 3: kind of volunteered to kind of it is and and

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Speaker 3: it's kind of one of those things of making myself

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Speaker 3: kind of available to do whatever. You know, I'm new

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Speaker 3: to New Mexico. I just moved to New Mexico in August,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know, I'm really enjoying the state overall.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know where I heard this, or maybe

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Speaker 3: I just came up with it. You know, New Mexico's

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Speaker 3: number one at being last at everything if it kind

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Speaker 3: of kind of comes to education, it comes to you know,

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Speaker 3: a lot of things like that.

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Speaker 1: He's not ingratiating himself.

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Speaker 3: No, So, but here's my thing is that my goal

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Speaker 3: here is to make New Mexico not that when it

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Speaker 3: comes to screwer, is that we should be prepared, that

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Speaker 3: we should be able to be uh, you know, be

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Speaker 3: able to get this information out there, especially to you

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Speaker 3: know a group of people that aren't being reached out

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Speaker 3: to hunters and outdoors men in general, and so My

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Speaker 3: goal with communicating all of this is to situate New

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Speaker 3: Mexico and in a place that we can be prepared

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Speaker 3: because we don't have the finances like Texas does. We

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Speaker 3: don't have kind of the resources that our neighbors do.

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Speaker 3: And so it's you know, getting all of this information

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Speaker 3: out there because you know, I'm only one person, and

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Speaker 3: so New Mexico obviously is a huge state, and we

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Speaker 3: have a lot of economic activity when it comes to

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Speaker 3: hunting and outdoors, and so it's reaching out to all

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Speaker 3: of those people and kind of I can't do it alone,

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Speaker 3: and so that's kind of my my goal here is

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Speaker 3: to make New Mexico uh into a state that we

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Speaker 3: can made an example for everybody else.

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Speaker 1: All Right, so we're gonna dig into heavy on screw worms,

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Speaker 1: but first we got to talk about a couple things this.

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Speaker 1: So first, Doug, give me your hand, pill zoom in

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Speaker 1: on this right.

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Speaker 2: I lost you're asking.

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Speaker 1: I was at I was at the Sheep Show, okay,

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Speaker 1: Wild Sheep Foundation Convention, Deal trade show, and I'm doing

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Speaker 1: this little things, signing books, taking pictures and whatnot. And

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Speaker 1: these dudes come up and I'd seen him around because

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Speaker 1: they're all dressed up like gunfighters.

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Speaker 2: Spurs, and you notice that kind of thing, all.

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Speaker 1: Dressed up like wild West gun first with this gals

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Speaker 1: carrying a stuffed raccoon around costumes. Pretty soon I take

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Speaker 1: note that they're in line to come up and chat.

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Speaker 1: This gentleman explains what they do is they're the people

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Speaker 1: that put on at a ghost town. See, they have

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Speaker 1: their own Virginia City down there. Like we have a

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Speaker 1: Virginia City, we have a ghost town. They have one too,

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Speaker 1: So he says Virginia City and I'm thinking ours, but

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Speaker 1: he means theirs. Explains that they're the people that do

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Speaker 1: the gun They put on like the gunfight, the wild

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Speaker 1: West gunfight, and they happen to show up in their reactors, reenactors, reenactors.

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Speaker 1: So he hands me this, gives me his business card,

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Speaker 1: and I lose it. So this I think, I think

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Speaker 1: that he invented this. If you want, I lost his

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Speaker 1: damn business card. But he's a gunfighter in Virginia City, Nevada,

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Speaker 1: and he runs around at in Reno and he dresses

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Speaker 1: up like a gunfighter. I think that people can prove

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Speaker 1: me wrong. I think he invented this. I'm holding the

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Speaker 1: weasel here. Hold out your arm.

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Speaker 4: Now, dog, it's a slapak.

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Speaker 1: Do it again. Here's a pine squirrel.

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Speaker 2: The other arm was good.

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Speaker 1: Now, I think he.

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Speaker 4: Invented that we need to have it sound here just

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Speaker 4: for the for the audio audience. Put it near the mic.

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Speaker 1: If he invented that, he deserves a Nobel prize and

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Speaker 1: talks army.

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Speaker 4: Dude.

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Speaker 1: My daughter is going to lose her mind when she

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Speaker 1: sees that.

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Speaker 2: I wondered why I was here. Now, I know, what

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Speaker 2: do you think of that? I don't know. I think

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Speaker 2: it looks good on me.

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Speaker 1: These are slap These are tube skinned. We got a

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Speaker 1: tube skinned ermine, a tube skinned pine squirrel converted into

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Speaker 1: slap bracelets. I think I met the inventor. But you

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Speaker 1: can never trust a reenactor. Do you know what I'm saying?

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Speaker 1: When was the last time? Tell me when was the

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Speaker 1: last time a ren actor? Because because it's they, they

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Speaker 1: inherently are living a lot.

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Speaker 2: I know a couple of those guys.

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Speaker 1: You can't trust for me, you an actor?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I trust my job guys.

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Speaker 1: I'm joking mostly, Okay, dougs here, So I did that. Oh,

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Speaker 1: a couple of announcements to make in three days. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be at I was just talking about being

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Speaker 1: at the Wild Sheep Show, The Sheep Show, Wild Cheap

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Speaker 1: Foundation Show. If you on YouTube watched are or wherever

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Speaker 1: you watch stuff are Tanzania Hunts. The guy I was

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Speaker 1: hunting in Tanzania with is Morgan Potter. He's the professional

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Speaker 1: hunter I was with. Great guy, very funny, very smart,

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Speaker 1: great guy. He and I are doing a talk at

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Speaker 1: Safari Club International in in Nashville, Tennessee. So Safari Club

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Speaker 1: International has like a convention I don't know they call yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think they call it a convention. The SCI Show.

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Speaker 1: Morgan and I are going to do a talk about

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Speaker 1: our experiences kind of like from the perspective of someone

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Speaker 1: that doesn't know anything, like an idiot like me, an

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Speaker 1: Africa idiot and an Africa expert, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: give a lecture at Safari Club on February nineteenth. We're

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Speaker 1: not all the money, so you gotta get a ticket,

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Speaker 1: but all the money goes to SCI. So what you

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Speaker 1: gotta do is you gotta go on SCI's website and

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Speaker 1: you got to get like you become a member and

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Speaker 1: that allows you to go to the show and then

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Speaker 1: you'll see you can get a ticket to come to

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Speaker 1: our talk again doesn't go to Meeta Morgan. All the

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Speaker 1: money goes to sci It's a nonprofit hunting rights some

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Speaker 1: conservation work organization. Check that out. So also more news.

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Speaker 1: Mediator podcast is going to two times weekly starting March ninth,

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Speaker 1: somewhat crimswording, somewhat replacing Radio Live. We're gonna have you

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Speaker 1: going to the interview show, which is like right now

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Speaker 1: we're fixing to talk to this veterinarian entomology just well,

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Speaker 1: you know how I want you to turn me onto.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any colleagues who are forensic entomologists to

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Speaker 1: study like how to tell how long a guy's body's

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Speaker 1: been laying there? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting field. There's only a couple of

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Speaker 3: people that do forensic entomology. We did some forensic entomology,

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Speaker 3: uh where I did my PhD. My PhD advisor developed

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Speaker 3: a class and kind of did some of that. But

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Speaker 3: there's really only you know, five or six people that

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Speaker 3: kind of do it as a career. There's one guy

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Speaker 3: at Texas A and M Jeff Tomberlin who kind of

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Speaker 3: is one of the forensic entomology people. He's actually doing

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Speaker 3: some stuff with poaching in Africa and yeah, yeah, and

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Speaker 3: so I am yeah, actually I have a call with

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Speaker 3: him tomorrow, can you yeah, yeah, wheels a little bit

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Speaker 3: for me, absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: Uh, you don't know any neanderthal experts to you.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, Now.

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Speaker 1: What was I getting at? Oh, we're splitting the show.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna have the regular interview show like we

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Speaker 1: have now that we're gonna have a news show. So

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Speaker 1: we're having a news and commentary show which will come

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Speaker 1: out every week very close to it being recorded. Okay,

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Speaker 1: in the news and commentary show will allow us to

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Speaker 1: we're going to be doing it's the same crew from

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Speaker 1: Radio Live, but we're going to be much of the

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Speaker 1: same individuals from Radio Live, but it's not beholden to

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Speaker 1: a certain place in time, and it's going to be

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Speaker 1: new current events dominated by current events. So you'll be

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Speaker 1: able to get up to date news and commentary at

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Speaker 1: the news show. So two drops per week. The energy

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Speaker 1: that goes into Radio Live will transfer over to the

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Speaker 1: news and commentary show that all starts March ninth. We're

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Speaker 1: also fixing up a brand new studio, so you'll see

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Speaker 1: that there's like a new studio area too. In connection

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Speaker 1: to all this, got a correction really quick, srst, before

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Speaker 1: you get into this. Can we get cell phones out

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Speaker 1: the table? We're getting a little bit of fuzz.

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Speaker 2: Oh sorry, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Now you're getting I should have warned you before. Oh

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Speaker 1: where's the correction that I said? It was kind of

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Speaker 1: dumb because it wasn't a good correction. Oh here, let

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Speaker 1: me find where'd that go?

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Speaker 4: Let me find that. I didn't put that in?

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Speaker 1: Why not? I said, I want to talk about it,

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Speaker 1: but it's done forgot to do that.

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Speaker 2: Uh something about the wolf.

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Speaker 1: No, here's a cruestion. It was Colorado Wolf Recovery Goals

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Speaker 1: episode eight twenty. Correction. Okay, right for this. He even

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Speaker 1: tells me that I can feel free to fact check this,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's like a it's like a sword of corraction.

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Speaker 1: He says. At the end of the episode, you guys

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Speaker 1: were discussing Colorado's wolf reintroduction episode the end of episode

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Speaker 1: eight twenty, and Steve mentioned that c p w's Colorado

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Speaker 1: Parks and Wildlife's goal for wolves is thirty to fifty.

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Speaker 1: He says this is only partially true. Okay, but he's right.

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Speaker 1: This is a This is a correction. The reintroduction goal

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Speaker 1: in Colorado to re is the reintroduction goal is to

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Speaker 1: put to reintroduce thirty to fifty, not to establish a

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Speaker 1: population of thirty to fifty. The goal is to cut

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Speaker 1: thirty to fifty loose. Okay, that's not the stated recovery goal.

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Speaker 1: He goes on, This is me quoting him. In fact,

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Speaker 1: there is no official number for a desired population in

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Speaker 1: the finalized plan for a recovery goal. However, there are

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Speaker 1: only guidelines for down listing from the state endangered species list. Okay,

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Speaker 1: if they have at least fifty wolves for four years,

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Speaker 1: they can down list to state threatened status. If they

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Speaker 1: maintain a population of at least one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: wolves for two years, they will dlist from this state

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Speaker 1: endangered species list. He goes on to say, I was

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Speaker 1: saying that, and I stand by this. I was saying

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Speaker 1: in Colorado, unless sixty percent of the people in Colorado

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Speaker 1: move away and those are replaced by Utahns and the

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Speaker 1: Vadins or something, those are replaced by a different, a

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Speaker 1: different strain of human, you will never see a hunting

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Speaker 1: season for wolves in Colorado. I stand by that. I

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Speaker 1: gave that as a piece of opinion. He says, though,

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Speaker 1: once the wolf is delisted in Colorado, so that once

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Speaker 1: they hit that one hundred and fifty wolves for two years,

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Speaker 1: he says, there is supposed to be and I'm quoting here,

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Speaker 1: consideration for making wolves a game species. But he goes

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Speaker 1: on to say, and this is a wildlife professional. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to give his name. This is a state

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Speaker 1: wildlife professional. The road descent. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna. What do you call that nowadays?

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Speaker 2: Dox them? Dox them?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I dox his brother, he says. But if

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Speaker 1: we've learned anything from wolf policy in the past, there

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Speaker 1: will be much litigation and hogwash to prevent management of

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Speaker 1: wolves by hunting. So even though the stated number is

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Speaker 1: a bit higher than Steve said, and there is in

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Speaker 1: fact a provision in the plan to consider reclassification to

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Speaker 1: a game species, it does seem likely that the wolf

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Speaker 1: population will continue to increase significantly with no clear final

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Speaker 1: goal having been set. Here's a correction from Florida. That

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Speaker 1: that is that is that that that's a great that's

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Speaker 1: the kind of see. Pretty soon we're gonna start a

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Speaker 1: correction of the Week contest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that one.

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Speaker 1: That guy could have. He was a winner. He was

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Speaker 1: a winner.

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Speaker 4: It was all my bad because I put it in

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Speaker 4: the notes kind of not not clearly. What did me

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Speaker 4: when I put the thirty to fifty goal? I put

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Speaker 4: it under like, yeah, I'd put it on board. No, well,

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Speaker 4: I'm that's that's that's part of it. But the guy's right,

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Speaker 4: so it's it's that's good. He I mean, there are

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Speaker 4: probably people in the audience saying no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: it's and they're right. You guys are all right.

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Speaker 1: Where was I Florida? Okay, here's a correction that would

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Speaker 1: not win. Oh, we need to get we need like

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Speaker 1: a new Do we have our own email address for

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Speaker 1: the podcast?

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Speaker 4: What is it called the meat Eater podcast at the

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Speaker 4: meadeater dot com.

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Speaker 1: Where do those go?

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Speaker 4: Uh? They all filter mainly to our community manager.

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Speaker 1: But do we get all of those? We get all

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Speaker 1: of them? Okay?

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Speaker 4: Oh no, I asked him to filter stuff.

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Speaker 1: Well don't I don't know that he knows what I

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Speaker 1: think is interesting? Do you know what I'm saying? Like

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Speaker 1: what is the risk? Like the risk would be because

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Speaker 1: my wife doesn't think what I think is interesting is interesting?

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Speaker 1: What's that?

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Speaker 4: I've asked him to cast a wide knit and see

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Speaker 4: and for me a bunch of different, funky, weird things.

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Speaker 4: I think. I think. I think he knows.

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Speaker 1: Because out of every ten things that I think is interesting,

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Speaker 1: I tell my wife, she finds nine not interesting. You

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Speaker 1: can't trust not equating him to my wife. I'm just saying,

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Speaker 1: like you know, no two people are the same.

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Speaker 4: That's true.

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Speaker 1: Here's a not winner. This guy, in fact, with the

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Speaker 1: opposite of win correction of the week.

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Speaker 2: You're going to correct his correction.

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Speaker 1: I am he His correction is titled misrepresenting opposition to

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Speaker 1: the Florida bear hunt. I enjoy, He goes on, I

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Speaker 1: enjoy your show. Compliment Sandwich, I enjoy your show, but

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Speaker 1: feel the need to offer you a new perspective on

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Speaker 1: a story you recently reported on. As a resident of

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Speaker 1: rural Florida, I'm surrounded by the controversy surrounding our state's

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Speaker 1: recent black bear hunt. While you presented thoughtful views on

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Speaker 1: the battle between those who support and depose bear hunting

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Speaker 1: in Florida, I feel you overlooked an important concept in

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Speaker 1: the argument. He goes on, Though I don't bear hunt

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Speaker 1: I'm a lifelong hunter and angler. In addition, my professional

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Speaker 1: training is in fish and wildlife management, and my previous

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Speaker 1: career had me frequently collaborating with wildlife managers nationwide. In addition,

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Speaker 1: I currently work at an environmentally focused nonprofit. So I

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Speaker 1: rub elbow with a diverse group of outdoor minded individuals,

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Speaker 1: he could win a composition.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this sounds like Midwest passive aggressive to me.

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Speaker 1: Well, if he was going toe to toe with most

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Speaker 1: of the people that write us a letter, he would

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Speaker 1: win a composition award, not the hack like I like.

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Speaker 1: I prefer like when it looks like ee. Cummings wrote

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Speaker 1: in yeah you know, while you report, did I say

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Speaker 1: that already? Oh okay? He goes on, while your reporting

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Speaker 1: included key details behind the quote animal rights folks opposing

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Speaker 1: the bear hunt, It left out a glaring reason why

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Speaker 1: so many Floridians oppose it. In general, the hunt is

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Speaker 1: being broadcast as an example of animal populations outgrowing their habitat,

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Speaker 1: when in most case it's actually a case of habitat

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Speaker 1: being reduced around the animals. He goes on, see Doug Dougs,

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Speaker 1: Doug does nowhere It's gonna fall.

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Speaker 2: I read it but now I've forgotten everything.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't know if he's going to agree with him

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Speaker 1: or not. Well, that's just gonna pit me against Doug.

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Speaker 1: He goes on about this. Outsiders have certainly heard of

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Speaker 1: the development happening all across central Florida. But believe me,

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Speaker 1: unless you have lived it, you have no way to

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Speaker 1: comprehend the complete eradication of fish and wildlife habitat occurring

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Speaker 1: daily throughout this state. He goes on, Florida's development friendly

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Speaker 1: building codes allow for thousands of acres to be cleared

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Speaker 1: and developed at an incredible pace. Make no mistake, this

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Speaker 1: is no way environmentally sensible development. This is clear cut,

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Speaker 1: corner to corner, bulldozed and compacted development seemingly everywhere. When

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Speaker 1: developers clear land in Florida, no wildlife is left nothing,

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Speaker 1: not a bug, a bird, and certainly not a bear.

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Speaker 1: I don't agree. I don't disagree with any of this.

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Speaker 1: He hasn't gotten to the park.

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Speaker 2: I'm waiting.

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Speaker 1: He hasn't gotten to the correction yet. He's just laying

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Speaker 1: the groundwork. Here's the clincher. Here's where he brings a home.

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Speaker 1: Bear habitat is being removed at an unheard of pace

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Speaker 1: his words here. That's the majority of what's behind opposition

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Speaker 1: to the hunt. Floridians, hunters and anglers alike, view wildlife

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Speaker 1: policy in this state as a failure due to continued

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Speaker 1: declining habitat, the likes of which have never been seen

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Speaker 1: in the South. Many hunters I know oppose the bear

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Speaker 1: hunt for this very reason. It's viewed as a cop

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Speaker 1: out by the fish and wildlife managers and an excuse

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Speaker 1: for declining habitat. It's important this opposition to the hunt

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Speaker 1: is represented correctly because many of them are hunters themselves.

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Speaker 1: Here's why. Here's where you're no. No, if you still

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Speaker 1: hunt deer, and you still hunt turkeys, and you still fish,

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Speaker 1: you're what you're saying isn't true. They're losing habitat too.

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Speaker 1: So are you quitting all hunting out of protests for

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Speaker 1: the state not getting a grip on development? How are you?

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Speaker 1: How are you saying? Oh, no, I oppose having a

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Speaker 1: bear season, but I support having a deer season. I

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Speaker 1: support having turkey season. Come on, you, just no, It's

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Speaker 1: just totally not true unless this guy writes in. If

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Speaker 1: he writes in and says to me, oh no, here's

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Speaker 1: a crack to your correction, to my correction, and it's

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Speaker 1: that I have quit all hunting, I boycott any kind

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Speaker 1: of hunting and fishing in Florida out of a protest

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Speaker 1: to rampant development in Florida. Then I'll say, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: believe you, but there's no way that's true. You're not.

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Speaker 1: It's like you're not willing intellectually, you're sort of holding

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Speaker 1: out that a bear is somehow different than a state

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Speaker 1: managed game animal because of your perceptions.

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Speaker 5: He's there. The animals are dealing with loss of habitat.

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Speaker 5: You have well, right, and so you have more animals

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Speaker 5: competing or on less habitat. Consequently, you have overpopulation.

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Speaker 1: You know why. He's also wrong. He's also wrong because

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Speaker 1: the the the total number of bears. If what he

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Speaker 1: was saying was true, you would be I mean, it

400
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 1: is true, I'm not the development Like, Yeah, development in

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00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,719
Speaker 1: Florida is out of control from an environmental conservation standpoint,

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Speaker 1: it's in rough shape. The state is in rough shape,

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00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: developments out of control. But that is not what the

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Speaker 1: bears like. Right now, that is not what the bears

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Speaker 1: are like. Bear numbers in Florida are growing. Bear numbers

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Speaker 1: in Florida are yeah, bear numbers In Florida bear numbers

407
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Speaker 1: are black bear numbers. In general, around the country, bears

408
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: are moving into new places regionally, like they're moving in

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Speaker 1: new places locally, and they're moving into new places more broadly.

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Speaker 2: So they're pretty adaptive.

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Speaker 1: It's taking them one hundred and fifty years to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to deal with people, but they're figuring it out.

413
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: And like he's just mixing up two things another one.

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00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: This is a little more science. You might like this one.

415
00:24:54,640 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: We'll get to the whole screw room thing. Don't worry dude.

416
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: Alan Lazara, who's come on before. He's an er doctor.

417
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: He's an er doctor and he's been on the show.

418
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: He has a particular focus and done a lot of

419
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Speaker 1: work in tree stand injuries. Very interesting guy. He wrote

420
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: in there's this new treatment coming out for frost bitten

421
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Speaker 1: hands and feet. The reason I'm bringing this up because

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Speaker 1: people that like to cook wild game, I mean cooks

423
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: in general, but a lot of my buddies who are

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Speaker 1: avid wild game cooks use soouved machines souvid wands to

425
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,479
Speaker 1: hold water at a very specific temperature. Right, Like, if

426
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Speaker 1: you're trying to hold. If I told you, hey, put

427
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Speaker 1: water on your stove and hold a pot of water

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Speaker 1: on your stove at one hundred and thirty nine degrees

429
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Speaker 1: for three days, You're not gonna do that. If you

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Speaker 1: put a SOUVD apparatus in a pot of water and

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Speaker 1: you set it at thirty nine degrees for three days,

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Speaker 1: that son of a bitch is gonna be thirty nine

433
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: degrees for three days. One hundred and thirty nine degrees

434
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: for three days. There's some new stuff, and it just

435
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: was published in the Academy the Academic Emergency Medicine Journal

436
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: about seemingly having great luck rewarming frozen body parts and

437
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: SOUV baths because you can get the perfect temperature and

438
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: hold it and hold it. Because anyone that's ever frozen

439
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: your fingers you stick them in hot water. That is

440
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: not the way to go painful. So he's pointing out

441
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 1: like he's not Doctor Dozara is not suggested a disclaimer,

442
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: but okay, this is from his This is from the journal.

443
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: Rewarming frost bitten tissue with skinn to skin, top contact

444
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: or warm water. Okay. Treatment includes removing the person from

445
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: the cold environment and rewarming frost bitten tissue with skinned

446
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: to skin contact or warm water immersion. Okay, rubbing no good.

447
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: Typically in the emergency department or field, this is accomplished

448
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: with a warm water bath that is frequently exchanged to

449
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: target a warm to target a water temperature.

450
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 5: Some bitch, you put it in sad because you have

451
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 5: to exchange because it's you're not holding the temperature.

452
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: No, no, check this out. You're trying. They'll, they'll, they're, they're, they're,

453
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: they're trying to get water at ninety eight six. I

454
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: didn't know this.

455
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 2: Makes sense.

456
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: So you freeze your hand, you freeze your fingers. The

457
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: medical treatment would be to try to get water at

458
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: ninety eight six. Stick your hand in there. And then

459
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: he says, they're constantly swapping it out with new water.

460
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: But there's a dry heat. No good. Like holding it

461
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: to a fire not advisable, Rubbing it not advisable. Skinned

462
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: the skin contact or a water bath at ninety eight six,

463
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: He says, typically in an emergency room setting, you're swapping

464
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: out the water, swapping out the water, swapping out the water.

465
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: Uh here, set your sue v'd at ninety eight six.

466
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: Just in the winter, turn it on, put it in

467
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: the ground. Yeah, every time you freeze your fingers come in,

468
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: dunk them in there.

469
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: It sounds like a big whirlpool to me. Yeah. Yeah.

470
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 3: It kind of reminds me of Star Wars Luke Skywalker,

471
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: you know, he was on Hoff and they.

472
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: Stopped him wicked back to tank.

473
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, there you go. And it seems like, you know,

474
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: they're just taking it from Star Wars. I'm sure these

475
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 3: scientists were.

476
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were. They were hot on the seux vied

477
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: for anybody else was yeah, here's a quick comment, and

478
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: then then we're all then we're all in on screwworms.

479
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: Speaking of doctor Lazarre, a guy just wrote in that

480
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: he was listening way back into the into the deep cuts.

481
00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: He was back in the episode one with doctor Alan Lazara,

482
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: and episode one is called Bleeding Out with Doctor Allen Lazara.

483
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: In it, we had a discussion about blue gills biting

484
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: men's nipples. I remember this, This guy rode in from Michigan.

485
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: He actually calls them blue gails.

486
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: I wondered if that was a spelling error when I

487
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: was reading the notes.

488
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: And Brody said, do people in Michigan call him blue Gails?

489
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I think they kind of a little

490
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: bit do. But you'd also call him a gill. But

491
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: there is a little bit of a blue gail. No

492
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: blue gills, No, I can't think of that. I get

493
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: what he's getting at, but I think it's a pretty

494
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: clean blue gill. Yep, bluegill, or you'd say gills. This

495
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: guy has this to say. He says, almost every man

496
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: that swam and my grandpa's pond has had this happen

497
00:29:53,800 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: to him. Me included. Is this a correction, No, it's

498
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: like an observation. Ye, he's a fabricous. He's a fabricator.

499
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: It's a note. I'll critique it in the minute, but

500
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: first I'll take you the notice. He says the pond

501
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: was stocked only with bluegills, which were fed little fish

502
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: pellets by my grandparents. We attributed the nipple biting to

503
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: the similar appearance of these pellets to hard nipples and

504
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: cold water. We believe the fish would mistake the nipple

505
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: for a pellet and bite us. We would almost always

506
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: come out of the water looking like a marathon runner

507
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: who forgot to put tape on their nipples. This pond

508
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: brings it even tighter to home. This pund happens to

509
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: be just thirty minutes south of ann Arbor, where doctor

510
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: Lazara was working. Lest you question the relevance, I don't know.

511
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: I don't think that's it. I think I agree that

512
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: that's your assumption. But plenty of nipples have been bitten,

513
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: and plenty of ponds that aren't fed wild these are

514
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: wildfish biting nipples.

515
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 5: Body hair seems to attract them. Two, I've been bit

516
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 5: like on different parts of my body in those kinds

517
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 5: of ponds.

518
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 1: With you've been skinny dipping and had your packer bit

519
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: No you.

520
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 4: Neither, Yeah, lucky you guys.

521
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: All right, Okay, back to screwworms.

522
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: It always comes around, always does.

523
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: How long as screams are screams are progressing north through

524
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: as you explained, how long has there like, what is

525
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: the sort of what is the early understanding of screw worms?

526
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: And how long have humans been talking about screw worms?

527
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: And where have they been talking about screworm.

528
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's called primary screw worm or New World

529
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 3: screworm because it's a problem of the Americas. And so

530
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 3: the first kind of like true documented case was actually

531
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: in French Guyana in a penal colony. So in eighteen

532
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: fifty eight, the French kind of noted, oh, hey, yeah,

533
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 3: we have these prisoners that are being eaten alive by something. Yeah, humans,

534
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 3: we have no idea what it is, and so they

535
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 3: send in this guy Cockrell, who ended up like realizing

536
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 3: that they were fly maggots and kind of described it there,

537
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: and then it kind of went dormant for I guess

538
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,479
Speaker 3: whatever that math would be sixty or seventy years. And

539
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 3: so then it was the nineteen thirties in the US

540
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 3: that we started documenting these cases where we were seeing

541
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: cattle that were being infested, and so pretty much since

542
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 3: about the thirties is kind of like when it's been

543
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 3: on our radar of being this big problem. And then

544
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 3: from the thirties to about the early nineteen seventies was

545
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 3: kind of the heyday of control. They developed this thing

546
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 3: called steril insect technique to get rid of the flies,

547
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 3: and then since the seventies, at least in the US,

548
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: we pushed it out and then kind of have had

549
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 3: to work with different different governments. So we worked with

550
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 3: the Mexican government to kind of build a facility to

551
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 3: release sterile flies to push it out of Mexico. And

552
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 3: then it was two thousand and one or two thousand

553
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: and two that we worked with the Panamanian government to

554
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 3: essentially our one sterile fly production facility is down in

555
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: Panama and all of the flies are essentially going there

556
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: to be released to kind of control it from moving

557
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 3: northward essentially.

558
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: And so normal magot people associate magots with eating undead.

559
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 3: Stuff, correct, Yeah.

560
00:33:54,600 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: But this is a magot, little living Yeah, but why

561
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: won't Why does a normal magot? I'm sure there's many kinds. Yeah, yeah, no,

562
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: I heard disco rice. Why does a normal magot want?

563
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: Why does he want dead stuff? Yeah?

564
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 3: So this is this is one thing that I tell

565
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 3: my students or anybody why questions are hard, right, because

566
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 3: it goes down to there's a why, and I can

567
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 3: tell you, you know, I don't necessarily know if we

568
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 3: completely know why one maggot is going to be specialized

569
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: for dead tissue. And and a lot of it does

570
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 3: have to do with you know, if you're thinking about

571
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 3: a normal maggot, that you would see they're not actually

572
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 3: feeding on the tissue. They're feeding on the bacteria, and

573
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 3: they're feeding on kind of all the gross decomposing material

574
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 3: that's there, and so that's what they're actually using. So

575
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 3: like I did my PhD working on house flies and

576
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 3: we're going to kind of create this what we called

577
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 3: larval media. It is essentially how we made new house flies.

578
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 3: And really it's just a combination of you know, like

579
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: brand and alfalfa and yeast and kind of it smells

580
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 3: good until you put flies in it. But all we're

581
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 3: doing is creating a bacteria and yet soup essentially so

582
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 3: that the maggots can feed on that and so that

583
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 3: I don't know if we actually know like what exactly

584
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 3: it is, but.

585
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: So they're after whatever else is going on, like like

586
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: what I keep calling a normal man. Yeah, they're after

587
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: whatever's going on from the decomposition process, not necessarily digesting

588
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: rotten protein.

589
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, yeah, and they're doing they're doing a combination

590
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 3: of of all of that. But yeah, that what differentiates

591
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 3: them is is kind of it really has to do

592
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 3: just with that ones feeding on living tissue.

593
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 4: You know.

594
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 3: It's it's a fascinating thing that there's actually a therapy

595
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: it's called medical maggot therapy that they and there's a

596
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 3: there's a guy Ron Sherman, who was the first person

597
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 3: to get maggots. F FDA proved to put them into

598
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 3: wounds to actually clean out wounds. So you developed these mats,

599
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 3: So that's a it's Lucilius aricotta. It's just like a

600
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 3: common green blowfly that you would see. And they found

601
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 3: that again they're not feeding on living tissue. And there's

602
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 3: been some different studies that have shown that the maggots

603
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 3: are just as good as a doctor, right, or better

604
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 3: at cleaning up the edges of decomposing wounds.

605
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: Doesn't say much for you guys.

606
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 5: It's just as good as a doctor. Well, you know,

607
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 5: it's like lyrics coming out of this guy over here.

608
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: Well, you know it's one of those things like I

609
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 3: at least I'm a PhD and on MD, so I'm

610
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 3: just throwing shade at them.

611
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: So it's okay, I gotcha. Uh, just I don't want

612
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: to stay too long on the normal kind of magots.

613
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: But the more commonly available maggots, Yeah, in your local ditch,

614
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: but in your local summertime ditch is you know, you

615
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: know the peculiar like as much of the stench you

616
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: just said, like you could make a maggot medium. What

617
00:36:58,400 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: was in the magot medium? You make.

618
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, So for for house flies, which isn't going to

619
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 3: be blowflies, that's a whole other thing, and we can

620
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 3: talk about that. The house fly stuff is brand alfalfa

621
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 3: yeast and dried milk. It smells okay, yeah, it smells

622
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 3: like you're bacon until you put flies in it, and then.

623
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, why do they? Why do why do the Like

624
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: when you look at a rotten thing laying there in

625
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: your mind, it's like, what you're smelling is the rot, yeah, right,

626
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: But you put maggots on it, it creates its own stint.

627
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'll be honest, I don't know if you're

628
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 3: traditional or run of the mill blowfly maggots are producing

629
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 3: this like terrible odor. That is one thing though about

630
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 3: primary screworm that there is a specific odor that comes

631
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 3: off of the larvae that attracts more flies to that

632
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 3: wound so that they will lay more eggs. But I

633
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 3: can't actually speak to what is what exactly that is.

634
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: I think some of it, you know, if you're thinking

635
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 3: about it, is they're churning up all of those like

636
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 3: volatile things, right, So if.

637
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: You have some of your case, the thing that smells

638
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: it baking until you put the maggots on it, So

639
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: what are they doing that's making it stink?

640
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so some of that just has to do with

641
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 3: the latter process that we're dealing with it. And so

642
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 3: pretty much the entire time that the maggots are in

643
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 3: their their little container, they're fine. What we do is

644
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 3: we take advantage of their biology. So when they're getting

645
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 3: ready to pupate or kind of form that chrysalis like

646
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 3: a butterfly wood, they look for a dark, dry place

647
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 3: to kind of hide out. And so what we do

648
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 3: is we say, hey, like the cracks and johnis is

649
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: old dog out exactly? Yeah, yeah is we say, hey,

650
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 3: we want to take advantage of this. So we dump

651
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 3: water on them and we say and we essentially force

652
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 3: them out of their container into a secondary container that

653
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 3: then we can just collect them all up and essentially

654
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 3: cleanly pick them up. So really what the odor is

655
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: is a combination of the maggots. Now we have rotting

656
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 3: material that had maggots in it, some of the maggots

657
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 3: have died and started decomposing. I've until that point you

658
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 3: end up not having a super terrible loader. I will

659
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 3: also say though, that like I'm pretty nose blind at

660
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 3: this point. I've been working with flies for over a decade,

661
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 3: and anytime that I've had people come in, they're like,

662
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 3: oh no, this is terrible. And I'm like, there's very

663
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 3: particular smells that I'm bothered by, but fly maggots is

664
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 3: not necessarily one of them.

665
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I could probably go toe to toe with you.

666
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: Noah's blindness weird texting yesterday. There's this machine we're going

667
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: to talk about, the nasal Raider. You ever hear of

668
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: this now? Is that what it's called? Yeah, there's a way.

669
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: There's a machine. I'm not kidding you. We're gonna have

670
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk all about it coming up. If you

671
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: get let's say you're a municipal nasal ranger. Let's say

672
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: you get a stench complaint. This this is the craziest thing.

673
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: There's a thing called the nasal Range. You can go

674
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: buy it. Someone calls and says, man, my neighbors whatever

675
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: they got going on, right, Yeah, stinks, hog farming, beetleworks,

676
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: cleaning skulls, whatever you gotta complain, sewage. But it's sort

677
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: of like it's it's like a little bit subjective. Yeah,

678
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: Like I could go over there and be like, I

679
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: don't see what the problem is. My wife would go

680
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: over there and be like, good lord, that's a problem, right.

681
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: So the nasal ranger you it's a machine you put

682
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: over your nose and there's a little meter that meters

683
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: that you're breathing fairly.

684
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: Okay.

685
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: You can't breathe too little, you can't breathe too much.

686
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: So it's like you gotta breathe sucking on that sucker

687
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: in a way that is like holding the needle on

688
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: the right spot, so you're breathing like a normal person.

689
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 3: It's the opposite of a breath lizer, and it's yeah.

690
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, breath lizer. Yeah. Breath lizers like blow blow,

691
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: and you're like.

692
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 5: Body, okay, guy, like a guy who's experienced that.

693
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: This is so old. I could tell it without hope

694
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: I'll get him in trouble. I'm not gonna say who

695
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: it is. Did already say who it is?

696
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: No, I have a buddy, buddy.

697
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: I have a buddy who claimed in the old days,

698
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: long ago, he had claimed to developed a breathalyzer evading

699
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: breath technique. He felt that he was able to channel

700
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: secretly channel fresh air up through his nose feed the

701
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: breathalyzer without drawing into his inner self, Do you follow me?

702
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 2: Went to some dead shows.

703
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: Without letting the air come in and find out what

704
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: all is going on inside of him?

705
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 4: Did he have like a separate diaphragm and lung cavity?

706
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 1: He was a breathing technique that they're gonna name the guy.

707
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: Why would that get him in trouble?

708
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 1: No, if he was saying, if he were to get

709
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: breathalyzed by a law enforcement officer, he was saying, can't

710
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: catch me because I have a way. I have a

711
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: way that they don't know I'm doing it. But I'm

712
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: funneling in gusts of fresh air and in my nose

713
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: straight out my mouth. It's like players that do the

714
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: circular breathing, you know, circular breathing, the nasal ranger. It

715
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: then puts a number to the stench. Okay, how does

716
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: it do that? I haven't finished the video yet.

717
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 5: Okay, based on your breathing, based on your particular breathing.

718
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: It's like there's a woman that there's a whole video

719
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: where she's demonstrating how it works. You go to the

720
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,760
Speaker 1: stinky area, she says, you can go stand I'm staying

721
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: five feet from the hog farm because the neighbor's fence

722
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: goes up to the hog farm. So I can stand

723
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 1: in the neighbor. I can stay in the yard. Put

724
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: my nasal ranger on, and the meter makes sure you're

725
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: breathing at a normal like what would be the normal

726
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 1: person's breathing. Meaning you can't go because that's not normal, right,

727
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: and you can't go like this for you people just listening,

728
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: I'm plugging my noise, yeah, because that's not normal. So

729
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: the nasal ranger makes you do a normal breath.

730
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: It seems like it's a little superhero or something.

731
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 3: Nasal ranger.

732
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: You do a normal breath and it's got these carbon

733
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: filters on it and whatnot, and it spits out a stench. Rank. Yeah. Interesting,

734
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: it's fascinating.

735
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

736
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 3: Well, you know, you were talking about forensic entomology before,

737
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 3: and you know, traditionally we do think about it from this,

738
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 3: you know, telling when you know, we call it kind

739
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 3: of the period of insect activity, not when when they died.

740
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 3: But it's most of the forensic cases that people are

741
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 3: working on aren't body cases. They're they're working on cases

742
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 3: of lawsuits. And so they're hired by a legal team

743
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 3: of you know, someone my PhD advisor over the years

744
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 3: had worked on, Oh, poultry farm is being sued by

745
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 3: a you know, a group of homeowners and they're saying

746
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 3: poultry farms producing flies and smell. And so he's kind

747
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 3: of an expert witness and goes out there does trapping

748
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 3: and does all of this stuff, and so we think

749
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 3: about it from that case as you know this, that's

750
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 3: really what people that do forensic entomology will do a

751
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 3: lot of those cases or stored product pest things, or

752
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 3: you know, a home that is infested with termites. First

753
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 3: let's say, and you know, there was a negligent home

754
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 3: inspector that didn't actually look to see and so they'll

755
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 3: bring in someone and say, oh, no, this termitidn't infestation

756
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 3: has been here for ten years, so they did that.

757
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 3: Then there are the people that are testifying in court

758
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 3: on saying like, yes, we collected these maggots and we

759
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 3: can tell that they were two days old or whatever,

760
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 3: and so that means that the body was put here

761
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 3: on you know, June fourteenth or whatever.

762
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, but years ago, I was renting a house and

763
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: there was a base when I will supposed to utilize,

764
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: but we would utilize it. So I was I was

765
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 1: down there all the time. I knew what was down there.

766
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: Down there is all kinds of cockroach killer boxes. One

767
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: day call him and I said, man, there's a bad

768
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: cockroach problem in our house. Oh, we've never seen that.

769
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: And I couldn't be like, come on, I've been in

770
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: the base. I had to just take it. So we

771
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: got the magazine done dead stuff. The screworm hit me

772
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: with the life cycle of how a screworm works, like

773
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: he's I'm assuming he's got to have an entry point

774
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 1: like a wound.

775
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And so so the female screworm fly, the

776
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 3: one that's gonna lay the eggs. They're looking for a

777
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 3: wound or an orifice of some kind. So you know,

778
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 3: you can think mouth nos, oh no, I anus full

779
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 3: of that. Those are kind of the places that we're

780
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 3: traditionally seeing them in cattle at least, and so they're

781
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 3: looking for those, but we and so they will lay

782
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 3: in those locations. But the bigger concern is a wound.

783
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 3: And that wound could be anything from an animal that

784
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 3: you know, you run it through a shoot and it

785
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 3: you know, gets cut, or it could be a you know,

786
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 3: an antler that's fallen off, and so you have this

787
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 3: open kind of spot or oh really yeah, so anything

788
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 3: like that, and so of any of these locations that

789
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 3: could be open, the literature says kind of even something

790
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 3: like a tick bite location, something is enough. And so

791
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 3: they're attracted to these open wounds. Female comes in, dumps

792
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: a bunch of eggs. She'll lay that wound on that

793
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 3: little wound. Those eggs hatch in twelve to twenty four

794
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 3: hours they start. Then those maggots essentially they're super super small.

795
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 3: You can't actually see them, or you can, but most

796
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 3: people if they were looking at an animal wouldn't be

797
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 3: able to see it. They start burrowing into the skin.

798
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 1: Not a big old disco rice style, no, no.

799
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 3: So so initially they're like, I could see them, but

800
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 3: when we're talking to people, we generally say that they

801
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 3: probably would go undetected for two to three days and

802
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 3: so really yeah and so and so they're pretty soon

803
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 3: you would just look, yeah.

804
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: At a distance and just see a festering wound.

805
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and so and that's the whole thing, and so, uh,

806
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 3: the those maggots will hatch again. For some reason, the

807
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 3: larvae start producing this this odor that then draws in

808
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 3: more flies that will then lay more eggs.

809
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: On that way.

810
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's actually something that's really interesting. This scientist

811
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 3: John Welch, who's kind of dedicated his life for the

812
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 3: last sixty or so years doing this. In the mid nineties,

813
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 3: he actually trained a dog to detect uh screw them

814
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 3: kind of infestations. Yeah, and so yeah, so there's like

815
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 3: a little bit of work there. It's kind of a

816
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 3: fascinating thing. It's kind of like people will use dogs

817
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 3: to detect bed bugs and things like that as well.

818
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: Okay, so then.

819
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 3: Those larvae kind of continue to develop, they go through

820
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 3: what we call these larv in stars or larval stages.

821
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 3: So that's like a five to seven day period and

822
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 3: so here, I don't know, this would be bad for

823
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 3: the audience, but so those would be uh yeah uh

824
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 3: so those would be maggots that are that would be

825
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 3: three three to four, three to four days old. Uh

826
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 3: and so yeah, and again so those are.

827
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: These these are significant, Like it'd be the biggest one

828
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 1: in here just for people that are not watching but listening,

829
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 1: The biggest one in here would be barely suitable as

830
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:37,359
Speaker 1: ice fish and bait.

831
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so those are probably three to four days old,

832
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 3: and so they'll kind of be in this wound for

833
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 3: five to seven days. During that time, again they're attracting

834
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 3: more and more adults that are laying eggs, and so

835
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 3: you can get all these different life stages. At that point,

836
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 3: they say, hey, we're ready to kind of become an

837
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 3: adult fly. So they crawl out of the wound and

838
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 3: into the soil where they didn't pew pat, so again

839
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 3: that chrysalist type of a thing that you'd have with

840
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 3: a butterfly. They hang out in that stage for you know,

841
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 3: six d eight days and then they emerge kind of as adults.

842
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: And so.

843
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 3: Depending on the temperature, you can kind of you know,

844
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 3: it's a two to three week kind of total life cycle.

845
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 3: But one thing is is that with an infested animal

846
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 3: like you can you can kill an infested animal in

847
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 3: five to seven days. And so it's and it's what

848
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 3: what is killing like if you ran.

849
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: Let's say we take a cow, a cow gets a

850
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: nick from barboar or pick give me, give me. The

851
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 1: most common reason you see on your on cattle was

852
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: the most common reason you'd see a cut on a cow.

853
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 2: You know, barbour is a good one.

854
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: Okay, it gets hung out in the barboar. Yeah, gets

855
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 1: a couple of cuts on it. Yep, the fly finds it. Yep,

856
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: they get out it. It dies in two weeks. Yeah,

857
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: yeah it could right. Yeah, you do an autopsy, someone

858
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: does an autopsy. Yep, they're like like what what what

859
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: actually killed it?

860
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

861
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of like with with anything right there.

862
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 3: There could be a number of different things. So we

863
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 3: depending on where you were, you know, where that site was,

864
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 3: and they burrow in, you know, you could be.

865
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: Eating they burrow.

866
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

867
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 3: So that's that's part of the reason that the name

868
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 3: screworm exists is one the larvae have these ridges on

869
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 3: them that kind of look like a screw would. The

870
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 3: other thing is that they say they screw into the wound. Essentially,

871
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 3: they're burrowing their way through the cavity of the animal.

872
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: And so I was thinking of somehow I was thinking

873
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,439
Speaker 1: more of them like no, like on the surface, yeah,

874
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: like the hide or something now and and and so

875
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: they go so they're going straight in even yeah, and

876
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 1: so they could be eating vital organs, they could be

877
00:50:58,840 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 1: doing anything like that.

878
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 3: The other thing that we think about.

879
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: But they could see they could get in there and

880
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: be like like eating lung.

881
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what happened, So we had a we had

882
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 3: an outbreak of screwworm in the Florida Keys in twenty sixteen.

883
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 3: It's the last time that we had an outbreak in

884
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 3: the US, like, so yes and no, it was the

885
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 3: first time that we'd had an outbreak. We still don't

886
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 3: know where the flies came from. Like it's this whole

887
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 3: wild kind of thing of yes. Yeah, I'm not going

888
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 3: to say anything.

889
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: That's called just that's called reckless. Yes, yes, very much.

890
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 3: Like can we retrise that from the records?

891
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: I don't even know what it's just reckless. I don't

892
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: need some word, so.

893
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 3: Yes and no. So to answer your question, there are

894
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 3: incursions that occur all the time. But the thing is

895
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 3: is that in twenty twenty sixteen, we didn't have this

896
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: kind of like you know, this kind of infantry essentially

897
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,919
Speaker 3: that was moving forward that's super close to the US.

898
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 3: This was kind of like it popped up and then

899
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 3: we were able to wipe the boat in cattle No sop.

900
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 3: It popped up in key Deer. And so what happened

901
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 3: is they threatened. Yeah, it's a threatening endangered species. And

902
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 3: so what ended up happening there is that they the people,

903
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 3: you know, they're essentially like pets down there, and and

904
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 3: so there are people kind of just like some people.

905
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: But if you're listening and you're not familiar with key deer,

906
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: keys deer key, dear not to me, he's taking with

907
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: coos deer. Correct. There's this little little teeny shit in

908
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 1: white tail that's like like they're cute, yeah, but he's

909
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: no more afraid of the water as a muskrat. I mean,

910
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: they'll swim around. You should go check them out, like

911
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 1: a little teeny deer. But they're like nowadays, in the

912
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: old days you would call them subspecies. I think you'd

913
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: call them an eco type, an ego, a white tail

914
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: eco type down in the keys that there aren't many

915
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: that they get. You can't hunt them, they get hit

916
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 1: by cars. They haven't been hunting, so on the very tame.

917
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: But it's like a but a species of concern for sure.

918
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: They'll blink out yep.

919
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 3: And so what ended up happening was it kind of

920
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 3: went undetected or unreported for a while, and then people

921
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 3: started noticing, Hey, why why is you know, my my

922
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 3: pet deer stumbling around. And what they ended up realizing

923
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 3: was when they checked out the first couple of animals

924
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 3: was that screworm had essentially gone laid eggs near the

925
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 3: antlers and had burrowed their way through the skull.

926
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 1: Of the animals.

927
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 3: And we're eating the brains of the kid deer on

928
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 3: his pedical like the ailer base.

929
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: You're kidding?

930
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I have some some wild photos that are

931
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 3: just kind of here.

932
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: Send them to Phil. Ok So Phil wants to see me.

933
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 5: You were talking about Let's say a Kyle got stuck

934
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 5: in some barbed wire and she got a cut on

935
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 5: her leg, and so that's a long ways from the

936
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 5: brain as opposed to a deer getting it in the

937
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 5: antler and it's going right into the brain.

938
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 2: How long does.

939
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 5: That take to I mean, what what's that process?

940
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: Yeah?

941
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 3: So some of it is you. You potentially wouldn't have,

942
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 3: you know, complete migration in in that location. What would

943
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 3: be the best way for me to send the Oh

944
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 3: sorry that.

945
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: Uh, if you're on a fed with with Korean, you

946
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 1: can send them to her and then she can ford

947
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: him on it.

948
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 3: Okay, can I just give you because I don't I

949
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 3: don't I'm not connected with the internet or anything here. Okay, Yeah,

950
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 3: can I just give you my computer and you can

951
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 3: just send this PowerPoint over?

952
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,399
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so you know what we're thinking about doing.

953
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: You got some good photos. Yeah, so we do this

954
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: calendar series we did, like fed Up Deer Stands.

955
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, have one in my house?

956
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: Oh you do. I don't want I'm getting out of

957
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: the calendar business, but we might do one last calendar

958
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: called aft Up Wildlife Diseases. Yeah, and it's just every

959
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: month that's a picture of a terrible wildlife disease. Yeah,

960
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: and that's going to kind of close out the series

961
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 1: because no one will buy.

962
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 3: I don't know, you're gonna have a bunch of intomologists

963
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 3: that want to buy.

964
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: The problem is with the series is every year, like

965
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: people buy them a little bit. Yeah, a little bit

966
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: less all the time because calendar is fading out. But

967
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: to have a calendar that was so disgusting you follow me, Yeah,

968
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: so disgusting that no one bought it, it would just

969
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 1: end the calendar.

970
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 3: Maybe or it becomes really really popular.

971
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: Now it's gonna end it up wild Life Diseases. Yeah,

972
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: that we'll put January. It can be screw worm.

973
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it could be it could be screworm. You know,

974
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:33,760
Speaker 3: it could be a blue tongue.

975
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: It could be.

976
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,280
Speaker 4: EHDVT calendar off like one slide.

977
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, just the calendar was called one ft up wildlife disease.

978
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, but do we want to put this in

979
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 3: the video version?

980
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 2: But okay, it's gonna get some kind of warming.

981
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 1: There's a question I wanted to ask you earlier that

982
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 1: can we back up to We got you so whacked

983
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: out now by the time we puictures drop, But it

984
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 1: was a question I want to ask you earlier. What

985
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 1: can you explain real quick? We have a thing like

986
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 1: like what are the you know, like a meat bee.

987
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: We call him a meat bee. Yeah, let's say you're

988
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 1: cleaning fresh that you're cleaning fresh fish, okay, or you're

989
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: uning a burger on in your yard. The bee that

990
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 1: comes to that, his motivation is nothing like a fly, right.

991
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 3: Yes and no. You know, they're looking for a protein source.

992
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 3: So depending on on what it is. So, there are things, uh,

993
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:40,720
Speaker 3: there's a bunch of different species that could be wasps

994
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:42,720
Speaker 3: that will feed on meat. There are things called vulture

995
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:47,240
Speaker 3: bees actually that will feed on decomposing material and stuff

996
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 3: like that I had. I had a colleague in California

997
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 3: that did some work on them. So again they're looking

998
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 3: for a food source. So it's going to be a

999
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 3: similar thing.

1000
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: Depending on looking to lay is like now I come

1001
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,720
Speaker 1: to a fresh fish, he's never looking, he's not looking

1002
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: to eat the fish. Depending it depends on the fly.

1003
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 3: And so obviously you're gonna have some organisms that are

1004
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,399
Speaker 3: gonna you know, your blowflies are going to be looking

1005
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 3: for a you know, a place to lay their eggs.

1006
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 3: But then some of your standard you know, run of

1007
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 3: the mill near your house fly or something like that.

1008
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 3: It might be coming there to lay eggs, or it

1009
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 3: could just be coming there to you know, defeed as well,

1010
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 3: you know, and he might eat.

1011
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he might later come back and be like,

1012
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lay my eggs on that it's rotten. Yeah, okay.

1013
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 3: And so again it's gonna be a That's the one

1014
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 3: problem with with anything is that there's nuance in in

1015
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 3: all of these and so you are going to have

1016
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 3: some stuff with uh, you know, any of these blowflies

1017
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 3: or a lot of the blowflies that are coming into

1018
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 3: look for, you know, a place to lay their eggs,

1019
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 3: and you will see that you know, we've done some

1020
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 3: forensic work where you know, we're putting a dead pig

1021
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 3: out in the environment and then collecting maggots and stuff

1022
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 3: like that for our forensic entomology class. And you will

1023
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 3: see you'll see blowflies that are showing up with and

1024
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 3: you know, two minutes of us unloading it from a

1025
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 3: truck and then they those guys are looking for a

1026
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 3: place to uh light eggs. They're attracted to the you know,

1027
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 3: the smell of death, the decomposition, everything like that. But

1028
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 3: once the body cavity and everything like that opens up,

1029
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 3: you're going to get egg lay. But you also are

1030
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 3: just going to get them feeding on secretions and everything

1031
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,439
Speaker 3: like that that that exists there as well.

1032
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: So how many species of fly in the US? I

1033
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: don't know how you guys would divide it up? Like

1034
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: I know that you have like dip terrace, so you

1035
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: have you know, little midges andnoseums and but like, but

1036
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: how many species of fly are out there, like visible

1037
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: clearly visible flies?

1038
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know if I could tell you a number, right,

1039
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 3: say that many? Yeah, yeah, And and again the diversity

1040
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 3: of them, you know it, you know, it goes from

1041
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 3: everything to a mosquito, which you know you could see, uh,

1042
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 3: your horse flies right like so and and then you

1043
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 3: have you know, no CM's your chilicoids or your lepticon ops.

1044
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 3: You know, these biting midges that are transmitting pathogens and

1045
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 3: things like that. So yeah, it's just like dozens and dozens, yeah,

1046
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 3: or thousands probably Yeah, no kid, Yeah and so and

1047
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 3: again in the US, I couldn't tell you exactly. I'm

1048
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 3: not someone that does fly systematics of kind of understanding

1049
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 3: all the relatedness, but you know, yeah, there's there's a

1050
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 3: ton of.

1051
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: Them, perhaps thousands of feah. Okay, all right, So when

1052
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: we got y'all screwed up with trying to get the pictures,

1053
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: you were laying out talking about the key key here. Yeah,

1054
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 1: keys your key. I think it's key. I think it's

1055
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,439
Speaker 1: key key. Yeah, you're laying that out. We're talking about

1056
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 1: the getting into the brain. And Doug was bringing up

1057
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: let's say it. Let's say a cow gets a cut.

1058
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 2: On its hit leg, yeah or something. It's hip.

1059
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 1: No, there's no like you know, you can't. He's not

1060
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 1: in the lungs, he's not in the brain.

1061
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1062
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so again, in those types of situations, you

1063
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 3: probably it's just going to be invading that tissue there.

1064
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 3: It's not going to migrate and move. It's not like

1065
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 3: it's targeting the brain or something like that. It's it's

1066
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 3: just looking for an open an open wound. So wherever

1067
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 3: that open wound is, and then that is essentially then

1068
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 3: at that point going to be expanding out. So you're

1069
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 3: just going to have this cavity that is forming. And

1070
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 3: a lot of times what ends up happening is that

1071
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 3: if it's not something where it's like complete consumption, it's

1072
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 3: actually the you know, a secondary bacterial infection that ends

1073
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 3: up being the problem. And so you know, just just

1074
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 3: think of a sort of one of the fever exactly.

1075
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 3: And again, like what you'll see clinically in animals is

1076
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 3: kind of you know, a lot of those standard like

1077
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 3: failure to thrive symptoms that you would see, you know,

1078
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 3: drooping head, animals that are isolating, kind of a lot

1079
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 3: of these things. You know, oh, a very specific odor

1080
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 3: that's coming out of it, and then wounds that essentially

1081
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 3: you know, might even look small on the surface, but

1082
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 3: it's a deep cavity that that's going inwards. And again

1083
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 3: all of that is just opening up for you know,

1084
01:00:57,960 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 3: secondary bacterial infection.

1085
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 5: So do they like horn flies, face flies, you know,

1086
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 5: stuff that I've dealt with death cattle? Do these are

1087
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 5: they also attracted like eyes and nose and that they're

1088
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:11,439
Speaker 5: around the head all the time.

1089
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so so horn flies not as much. Sometimes

1090
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 3: you sometimes you will see them in and around the head,

1091
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 3: you know, I guess that's where the you know, with

1092
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 3: horn flies, but generally you've seen horn flies like on

1093
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 3: the back of the animal and everythings like that. So yeah,

1094
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 3: these guys, they they will be because they're going to

1095
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 3: be attracted to you know, the nose and the mouth

1096
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 3: and and things like that. But it's really they're looking

1097
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 3: for those kind of open wounds.

1098
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 5: So yeah, those are wounds. So it's a little bit different.

1099
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 5: I'm not face flies horn flies, but so that's different. Okay,

1100
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 5: what I'm the other thing, And I asked you about

1101
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 5: this before being uh, it's been a weird question. But

1102
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 5: I was a Catholic boy, you know, and and when when.

1103
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: You should want to talk about this here, Doug, let's

1104
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: just talk.

1105
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 2: About this quickly. And I remember the nuns saying there

1106
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 2: was a purpose for.

1107
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 1: Everything, right, Like, oh, okay, I thought were Yeah.

1108
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 5: And so the purpose of and you can and I've

1109
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 5: always I thought about that. There's a lot of things

1110
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 5: that you know, it didn't make sense to me then,

1111
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 5: but that always made sense to me, Like there's a

1112
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 5: purpose for everything. Mosquitoes have a purpose, flies have a purpose,

1113
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 5: you know, Maggot's decomposed, decomposition, all of those sort of things.

1114
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 1: This is a very human centric perspective, right.

1115
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 5: But but what's the purpose? I mean, isn't it like

1116
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 5: an evolution? There isn't there what's the purpose of this?

1117
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's the thing that's It's funny, and you

1118
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 3: posed this before, and it's you know, kind of most

1119
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 3: of the time if you ask an entomologist or you

1120
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 3: ask someone, it's like, oh, you know, should we just

1121
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 3: get rid of all the mosquitos? They'll talk about ecosystem services,

1122
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 3: bats and whatever else that is he did, right.

1123
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: Well, what won't be the cost of getting rid of mosquito? Exactly?

1124
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1125
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,240
Speaker 3: And and and someone can you can steal man in

1126
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 3: argument kind of again this this USCA researcher John Welch

1127
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 3: had he who has worked on this. He's like, my

1128
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 3: goal is to get rid of them. He's like, I

1129
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 3: don't see any purpose for them. He must God, yeah, yeah,

1130
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 3: very much.

1131
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 4: So.

1132
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 3: Uh And but he's he's worked his entire career.

1133
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 4: You know.

1134
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 3: I remember seeing him talk after the key deer kind

1135
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 3: of thing in the Florida Keys, and he was at

1136
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 3: a conference and he broke down crying at how like

1137
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 3: horrible it was just seeing these animals that, you know,

1138
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 3: they're collecting up, animals that are staggering around that they're

1139
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 3: having to euthanize. And and again he's like, he's like,

1140
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 3: my goal is if I could, I would get rid

1141
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 3: of them.

1142
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 1: So history, I mean just yeah, history has not been

1143
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: kind to that sentiment. Correct, Yeah, but I want to

1144
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: top So the key dere deal, we kind of we

1145
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 1: didn't finish the story. Yeah, there's still there's not right now.

1146
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: A whole bunch of key deer killed by screwworms. Correct. Yeah,

1147
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: what happened?

1148
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, so back in the nineteen thirties. Oh we're just

1149
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 3: in twenty sixty, yes, correct, correct. But what essentially happened,

1150
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 3: and this goes back to the thirties and the forties

1151
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 3: and the fifties, how we eradicated it originally is that

1152
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 3: these two USDA scientists came up with this idea called

1153
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 3: steril insect technique, and pretty much it takes advantage of

1154
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 3: the screwworm's biology. So what they figured out was that

1155
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 3: female flies only mate once, and so if you can

1156
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 3: produce a bunch of male flies and you can throw

1157
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 3: them out in the environment, they'll meet up with a

1158
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 3: female mate with her and since she only mates once

1159
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 3: and she got the signal that she made it, she's

1160
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 3: not ever going to produce viable offspring. And so what

1161
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 3: they essentially did in twenty sixteen is they went in

1162
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 3: and they did a bunch of sterile releases of flies,

1163
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 3: and they knock the population out and they completely eradicated

1164
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 3: screwroom from Florida keys using this steril and sterilizing cobal

1165
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 3: And it's essentially it's a radioactive cobalt that they're using,

1166
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 3: and they're irradiating flies.

1167
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 4: Uh.

1168
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 3: And some of it is like a process that I was,

1169
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 3: you know, we were we were kind of going through

1170
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 3: this thing. But yeah, so they're producing down in Panama

1171
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 3: currently about one hundred and ten million flies a week, yeah,

1172
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 3: radiating them, yeah, yeah, And so they're irradiating them to

1173
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 3: the UH. And again they're using a radioactive isotope uh

1174
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 3: and people are currently them just enough to kind of

1175
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 3: kill as nuts. Yeah, yeah, exactly, and and so that's

1176
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 3: that's what they're doing. And again, these two scientists, first

1177
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 3: we were playing around trying to figure out like how

1178
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 3: they could do it what they were doing. There was

1179
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 3: some previous work that had shown that you could do

1180
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 3: this in a in another fly species that they are like, hey,

1181
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 3: can we try it with screwer And they were able

1182
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 3: to figure out, you know, it is it's kind of

1183
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 3: like that fine line between uh, sterile flies and non steriflies.

1184
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:58,439
Speaker 3: And over time they actually had they've had mistakes where

1185
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 3: they didn't sterilize the flies appropriately. That happened down in Mexico.

1186
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 1: Correct.

1187
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so currently we only have this one sterile

1188
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: fly facility. There was one in Mexico when we were

1189
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 3: trying to eradicate it that they've now taken offline that

1190
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 3: was producing five hundred million flies a week and so yeah,

1191
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 3: and so and again we're just flooding the environment with

1192
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 3: these flies any to essentially be like, hey, we want

1193
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 3: to find any female fly and so they can mate

1194
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 3: and then we wipe them out.

1195
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 2: That way.

1196
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 3: It's a brilliant technique. It's just kind of like over

1197
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 3: time with everything, right, it's this evolutionary adaptation of you know,

1198
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 3: over time, we've had our sterile flies that don't compete,

1199
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 3: and so then they've had to change the strain that

1200
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 3: they've used. So they've gone and essentially collected new flies

1201
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 3: colonize them. It's this whole kind of like fascinating process

1202
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 3: that they're doing. But that's kind of been the game plan,

1203
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 3: and so that's what they did.

1204
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 1: Back into area where there's a blow up yep and

1205
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 1: millions of sterile flies. U.

1206
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 6: Okay, we got what looks to be my dog on

1207
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 6: the right. Yeah, well I got ask I'll tell you, yeah,

1208
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:17,640
Speaker 6: we got.

1209
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: Well, no, I got a question. I got not not

1210
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 1: a question, but their day. You're the perfect audience for this.

1211
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 1: You guys both are the perfect audience for this.

1212
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:27,360
Speaker 2: They are.

1213
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 1: Now I'm talking about Buddy Kevin Murphy. He's talking about

1214
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: when he's a kid working on a working on a farm,

1215
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 1: and I said, what was your like, what were your

1216
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 1: Responsibilities's talking about working on the farm and he's a

1217
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 1: little kid, and he was talking about one of the

1218
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: things they would do is he would work on the

1219
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 1: They were experimenting with artificial insemination. They had a bull.

1220
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 1: There's nothing to do with worring fly. If you ever

1221
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 1: heard this or not, this might be common practice. They

1222
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 1: had a bull. They re routed this bullspecker. You follow me,

1223
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: So it was going off backward. Re routed his pecker surgically,

1224
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 1: had a vet come in flipped. They took out. There's

1225
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 1: like a they took out. They took out like the packer.

1226
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 1: It's not a it's not a vaculum, but like the

1227
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 1: rigid structure. Took it up, removed it to the point

1228
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: where a guy was able to keep it, removed it

1229
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 1: and re routed it. Then they would hang a giant

1230
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 1: imagine a necklace that's like a ballpoint pen hanging on

1231
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 1: his neck. Why but ink blotder hanging on his neck.

1232
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: You turn him out with the cows. He can tell

1233
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 1: when a cow is and heat. Oh yeah, he jumps

1234
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: up there, but he's been rerouted, so doesn't do anybody

1235
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:05,720
Speaker 1: any good, does him?

1236
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 2: Give it?

1237
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 1: Not the cow any good. But when he jumps up there,

1238
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 1: he ink blots her with his ink blotter. Then all

1239
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 1: the kids gotta do is he looks out and there's

1240
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,600
Speaker 1: no a coyle of the ink blot on her. She

1241
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:20,639
Speaker 1: must be ripe.

1242
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 4: A.

1243
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of that?

1244
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 2: I had not.

1245
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 5: I was thinking, well, this must be a new way

1246
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:34,719
Speaker 5: of gathering. But makes nothing but sense if you're doing AI.

1247
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 5: I mean, old way is just let that bull out there.

1248
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 2: That's the that's the old way.

1249
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 1: So neither you guys ever heard of that?

1250
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 4: No?

1251
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: No, that's very interesting, man, very interesting. You can make

1252
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,680
Speaker 1: like a a movie about that.

1253
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, we just stand and watch the colics and go, oh,

1254
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 5: she's ready, you know, I mean that was a daily,

1255
01:09:58,920 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 5: daily thing.

1256
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 1: I thought that was really something. So you releasing all

1257
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 1: these flies? Yeah, millions? Now about this the process here

1258
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 1: of putting the sterills out? Can you give me an estimate?

1259
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 1: And maybe you can't take the key to your situation? Yeah,

1260
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 1: so you're on big Poney or whatever, one of those keys,

1261
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 1: one of those keys. This is probably impossible say like,

1262
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 1: how many to be effective? Do you need to put

1263
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 1: so many flies out that the majority of the flies

1264
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 1: on the landscape are your doctored flies? Or will a

1265
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: percent ultimately do it?

1266
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1267
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 3: So I couldn't tell you what that number is actually

1268
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 3: going to be. One thing that's actually interesting about them

1269
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 3: is that they the flies exist in kind of a

1270
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 3: relatively low adult number, like two to three hundred per

1271
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 3: square mile type of a thing. Really, yeah, yeah, and

1272
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 3: so it's one of the actually I just I just

1273
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 3: learned this when I was in a Yeah. Yeah, and

1274
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 3: so it was something that I recently learned when we

1275
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:10,160
Speaker 3: were when we were doing a workshop. And and so

1276
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 3: again you're just you're just hammering that environment, and so yeah,

1277
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 3: maybe maybe there is I wouldn't even want to estimate

1278
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 3: how many adult flies are in that environment. And again

1279
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 3: you're just let's just just dump as many as we can.

1280
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 1: So the theoretically be that on a property on an island,

1281
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: on a whatever, that there could be just like as

1282
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:37,519
Speaker 1: low as like some number of hundreds of males. Yeah,

1283
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 1: but you could go there and be like, I'm gonna

1284
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 1: put thousands.

1285
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and that would be the kind of the

1286
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 3: idea get overwhelmed their proof of concept with any of this.

1287
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 3: They actually when they were testing all of this, they

1288
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:49,840
Speaker 3: did it on the island of curse Ow to wipe

1289
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:52,120
Speaker 3: out the screwer and problems that were.

1290
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: There, and so they actually start taking the director. Yeah,

1291
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 1: it's I.

1292
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,679
Speaker 3: Actually I couldn't tell you exactly where it is okay.

1293
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 3: And again they were using this as kind of this okay,

1294
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:06,600
Speaker 3: well flies aren't moving in, so we can see what

1295
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 3: we can do kind of in this situation.

1296
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not worried about new ones coming.

1297
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1298
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:12,600
Speaker 4: And so.

1299
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:18,639
Speaker 3: With this situation again, like in the Florida keys situation,

1300
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 3: I was just looking, they dumped one hundred and one

1301
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:25,639
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty eight million flies and and so yeah,

1302
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 3: it's over about a one month or a couple month period,

1303
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 3: and yeah, they're just hammering that environment is gone.

1304
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, but dudes that are living there have to be

1305
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:38,560
Speaker 1: walking out and it's got to be like seems like

1306
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 1: there's flies everywhere.

1307
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. That's something that I've I've asked some

1308
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 3: people about is kind of like, well, if if we

1309
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 3: get screwer them in the US, are people going to

1310
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 3: be okay with this idea just because it because they

1311
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 3: kind of will do two different things. And it's kind

1312
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 3: of an interesting situation when we think about public's perception

1313
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 3: of science in general, right, it's kind of changed over time.

1314
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:04,040
Speaker 3: The way that they release these either is with ground

1315
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 3: release chambers, where they essentially they're boxes that are full

1316
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 3: of these pupie or they drop them from airplanes, and

1317
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:13,760
Speaker 3: so they release them out of airplanes, out of the

1318
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 3: back of airdults. Yeah, the adults and so and then

1319
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 3: they'll fall to the ground.

1320
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 1: And so new kind of cam trails.

1321
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1322
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 3: Well, and and you know, it's just they do that

1323
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 3: in California for Mediterranean fruit fly. You know, they're releasing

1324
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 3: you know, multiple hundred million flies a week in California

1325
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 3: to control Mediterranean fruit fly. So it's it's something that's done.

1326
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:35,519
Speaker 3: It's just not something that a lot of people know about.

1327
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 3: And so and also something that's really small versus you know, uh,

1328
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 3: you know, here's here's an adult fly. It's your standard

1329
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 3: kind of blowfly size.

1330
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 2: So it's the same technique with the fruit flies.

1331
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:52,839
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, exactly, you're sterile flies, stale, stale, stable.

1332
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,599
Speaker 1: If I saw that dude hanging around, no, I think

1333
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,680
Speaker 1: I would recognize him as not being a normal one.

1334
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:03,880
Speaker 3: So and again electric blue, yeah, and so those are

1335
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 3: One thing that's interesting is that they actually will change

1336
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:08,720
Speaker 3: color depending on what they feed on, which is kind

1337
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 3: of a really strange thing. We have in the US though,

1338
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 3: a very closely related fly that looks nearly identical and

1339
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:20,560
Speaker 3: so it's kind of a challenge when it when it

1340
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:22,800
Speaker 3: comes down to it of differentiating them. You can do it,

1341
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,600
Speaker 3: not that difficult if you look at it underneath the microscope.

1342
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 3: But you know, we have this secondary screw worm that

1343
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 3: is common. It doesn't feed on living flesh, it doesn't

1344
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 3: do anything like that, and so we end up kind

1345
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 3: of that's one of the problems that you end up

1346
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 3: running into is identifying them and putting out traps to

1347
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 3: try and monitor for them. Is the attract that the

1348
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 3: USDA has essentially developed also attracts all the blowflies because

1349
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:52,679
Speaker 3: it's essentially just a combination of a bunch of chemicals

1350
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 3: that then mimic rotting flesh essentially.

1351
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 1: So no, when you go in like let's say you

1352
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 1: go into a community agricultural community, Yeah, and you're like, hey,

1353
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:10,719
Speaker 1: y'all got a you know, there's a there's a screw

1354
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:14,679
Speaker 1: worm outbreak and we're gonna we're gonna dump two hundred

1355
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:21,400
Speaker 1: million sterile flies. Yeah. How many days is it until

1356
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:23,479
Speaker 1: all those sterile flies are gone?

1357
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:28,680
Speaker 3: Yeah? I couldn't put a number uh on it.

1358
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: There.

1359
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:34,840
Speaker 3: There is specific kind of criteria of when you can

1360
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 3: call an area eradicated that they do so for an

1361
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:44,639
Speaker 3: area to be you know, free of now those bugs live,

1362
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 3: so an adult fly in the environment will live a

1363
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 3: few weeks and and so and again it'll just continually

1364
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:56,160
Speaker 3: propagate and so what and that's part of the reason.

1365
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:58,400
Speaker 3: But they can't because there's sterile you know, correct and so,

1366
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:00,720
Speaker 3: and that's what you are looking looking for. But there's

1367
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 3: going to be some individuals that made it with a

1368
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 3: you know, a non sterile fly. And so that's why

1369
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 3: you kind of have to do these releases over and over.

1370
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:13,720
Speaker 3: And while you're doing that, you're monitoring and looking for

1371
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 3: if the flies you are collecting if they're sterile or

1372
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:20,600
Speaker 3: if they're not sterile. And so that's that's part of

1373
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 3: the process as well. And so it's kind of a

1374
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 3: continued release over time. It's not just like, you know,

1375
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:27,600
Speaker 3: let's just drop all these flies this one time. You

1376
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 3: want to continue to do it because you're going to

1377
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 3: in essence miss some of them at some point.

1378
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 1: At some points, why is there and I know that

1379
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:40,800
Speaker 1: you know, the press will kind of they're like, I mean,

1380
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: it's a native way, but people will look and there's

1381
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:47,840
Speaker 1: a sensational quality to it. Okay, there's like flesh eating flies, right,

1382
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,400
Speaker 1: there's a sensational quality to it. People are going to

1383
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 1: read it. But from talking to you, it seems like

1384
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 1: it's almost a non problem if it's so easily remedy, Like,

1385
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 1: is there a scenario in which you could get like

1386
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 1: do you? Is there a scenario in which you could

1387
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:08,639
Speaker 1: go haywire to where you're not able to produce enough

1388
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 1: to catch it.

1389
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 3: So that's part of the problem, is that, Yeah, the

1390
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:17,200
Speaker 3: USDA and kind of researchers in general have we've relied

1391
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 3: on steril insect technique and that's been the whole focus

1392
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 3: of everything like that. But we can't say that it's

1393
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:28,160
Speaker 3: a non problem because currently US doing steril releases isn't

1394
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 3: controlling the problem.

1395
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 1: Where is it not controlling the problem in Mexico?

1396
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 3: That so, the thing is is that if steril releases

1397
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 3: were controlling the issue, initially, it never would have moved

1398
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:41,799
Speaker 3: out of Panama, And so it moved out of Panama,

1399
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:43,840
Speaker 3: and then since twenty twenty three it's been moving its

1400
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 3: way up through Mexico, and so we're doing stero releases

1401
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 3: in Mexico. And the big concern really when it comes

1402
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 3: down to it, and again it's not a concern as

1403
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:55,720
Speaker 3: it is more of an infrastructure problem is that we

1404
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 3: have one facility that's producing flies, you know, the Kopek

1405
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 3: facility in Panama producing one hundred and ten million flies

1406
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 3: a week, but if it gets into the US, we're

1407
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:08,920
Speaker 3: going to need five or six hundred million flies a week.

1408
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 3: And part of the problem is is that where we

1409
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:13,320
Speaker 3: now have to you know, it's like when you build

1410
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:16,720
Speaker 3: infrastructure for anything, is that we're at this point where,

1411
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:19,719
Speaker 3: oh shit, if it gets here, this is a problem.

1412
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 3: But it's a two three year lag time to build

1413
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 3: a facility to be able to produce flies, because this

1414
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 3: isn't a oh hey, let's just bring in these flies.

1415
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 3: It has to be you have radiation. You you know,

1416
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:35,440
Speaker 3: all of the security clearance and security kind of protocols

1417
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:38,600
Speaker 3: and safety that go into you know, having you know,

1418
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:45,040
Speaker 3: nuclear radioactive elements in an area to irradiate flies is something.

1419
01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 3: And then it's also the idea of well, we're now

1420
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 3: bringing flies that aren't sterile into this environment. And one

1421
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:57,640
Speaker 3: thing as a researcher that's very challenging is that the

1422
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 3: USDA has essentially said, hey, we're the one that are

1423
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 3: doing this, We're we're working on this problem. And so

1424
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 3: like no one in the US can bring flies to

1425
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 3: do actual research here in the US because they don't

1426
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 3: want it getting out. And so the USDA has kind

1427
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:16,000
Speaker 3: of put this this block on that, and I totally

1428
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:17,759
Speaker 3: understand they want to be able to control the situation.

1429
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 3: And it's been hey, you know, we have this thing

1430
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:23,519
Speaker 3: that works, no one needs to worry about it. But

1431
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 3: now they're like, okay, let's do something. They just put

1432
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:29,360
Speaker 3: out a call for you know, they dedicated one hundred

1433
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:33,160
Speaker 3: million dollars to try to get researchers to apply to

1434
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:36,400
Speaker 3: try to do something, if it's extension, if it's outreach,

1435
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 3: if it's actually doing monitoring for things like that.

1436
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:43,280
Speaker 1: But it but the only tool right now, the only

1437
01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:46,560
Speaker 1: known tool to combat is the sterile.

1438
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 3: Correct and that's part of the concern is that that's

1439
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:52,200
Speaker 3: not working and that's where we put all We put

1440
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:54,599
Speaker 3: all our eggs in that one basket. And so now

1441
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 3: it's what do we do. And the other thing is

1442
01:19:57,080 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 3: is that back in the day, you know, I had

1443
01:19:59,080 --> 01:19:59,839
Speaker 3: a couple of students.

1444
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:00,840
Speaker 1: I talked to them.

1445
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:03,400
Speaker 3: They come from beef cattle background in New Mexico, and

1446
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 3: they're like, oh, yeah, my grandparents talked about you know,

1447
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 3: during calving season because that's another place that you'll see

1448
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:11,040
Speaker 3: it as in the navel. And so during calving season

1449
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:13,600
Speaker 3: they would go out, they would they described it to

1450
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:15,760
Speaker 3: me as that purple stuff whatever it was of some

1451
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 3: you know, organic phosphate or something like that that they

1452
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:21,880
Speaker 3: were applying, and it did great. The problem is that

1453
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 3: all of those products have because we haven't had to

1454
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:27,240
Speaker 3: be a problem, they've all been taken off of EPA registry,

1455
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 3: they've been taken off of you know, FDA registry. So

1456
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:33,599
Speaker 3: currently we have two products that are under emergency use

1457
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:36,800
Speaker 3: that can be used in animals, and there is nothing

1458
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,519
Speaker 3: else that's developed or licensed to even treat animals with.

1459
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:43,479
Speaker 3: And so it's a it's kind of this multi pronged approach.

1460
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 3: And then from the insecticide side to try to control them.

1461
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:48,719
Speaker 3: No one's worked with screw them. And so on a label,

1462
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:50,639
Speaker 3: if it doesn't say that you can use it on screworm,

1463
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:53,560
Speaker 3: you can't use it on screworm. And so you have

1464
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 3: to follow what the label says. So if it says

1465
01:20:56,080 --> 01:20:58,600
Speaker 3: it's for hornflies and face flies and stable flies and

1466
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:04,400
Speaker 3: house flies, right, but if you end up using it

1467
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:08,280
Speaker 3: for screwerm, well you're now breaking the law, and so it's.

1468
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:10,560
Speaker 1: A why is that, Like I know that on chemical compounds,

1469
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:12,720
Speaker 1: when you get a patent on a chemical compound, you're

1470
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:17,960
Speaker 1: actually patenting the application. Yeah, and with with some of that, Yeah, okay,

1471
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:20,280
Speaker 1: so who says you can't use it for the e

1472
01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:23,160
Speaker 1: p A. So the e p A is so the UK,

1473
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:25,759
Speaker 1: not the manufacturer patent holder.

1474
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:29,400
Speaker 3: No, and so federal law correct, when they get that license,

1475
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:32,799
Speaker 3: it will say on the label this is used for termite.

1476
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:35,759
Speaker 1: So this is used for permitted exactly.

1477
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,240
Speaker 3: And so that's the problem is that, you know, we

1478
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:40,920
Speaker 3: have lots of products that are probably effective, but again

1479
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:42,639
Speaker 3: none of us have been able to do the work.

1480
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:46,640
Speaker 3: And there's you know, talking to my USCA colleagues, there's like, yeah, uh,

1481
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:49,680
Speaker 3: there's a whole lot of work that we don't know,

1482
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 3: like even standard just like behavior stuff. You know a

1483
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 3: lot of my work that that I do is insect

1484
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 3: and animal behavior, and so it's you know, we don't

1485
01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 3: necessarily know how they move, how they're in or acting

1486
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:02,600
Speaker 3: like in because we kind of put all of our

1487
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:04,760
Speaker 3: eggs in this one basket. And also when we did

1488
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:06,400
Speaker 3: all this work, we did it all in South America,

1489
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 3: and so it. We have a very different climate, you know,

1490
01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:13,840
Speaker 3: in New Mexico, in southern New Mexico, in the tip

1491
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:17,559
Speaker 3: of Texas is as reservoirs, where you know, screwroom would

1492
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:20,360
Speaker 3: continually develop because it doesn't get cold enough during that

1493
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 3: period of time. The rest of the US, you know, luckily,

1494
01:22:23,439 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 3: like here in Montana, if screwroom showed up, it might

1495
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 3: be an issue during the summer, but it's going to

1496
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 3: die out in the Yeah, it'll kill them in the winter.

1497
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:32,560
Speaker 3: But that's the big problem with those southern states and

1498
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:36,120
Speaker 3: or you know, that's those southwestern states. And so there's

1499
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:38,080
Speaker 3: a lot of these different things that we don't know

1500
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 3: that we're kind of like, all right, what do we

1501
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:43,400
Speaker 3: do now? And so it's kind of rushing to figure out,

1502
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 3: like what can we do? What can we not do?

1503
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:49,680
Speaker 3: And again we have to follow all of the you know,

1504
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:52,400
Speaker 3: all of the laws that exist. And so if it's

1505
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:54,720
Speaker 3: if it's cattle or if it's you know, a big

1506
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:57,600
Speaker 3: concern is that it it's if it gets into wildlife,

1507
01:22:57,880 --> 01:22:59,679
Speaker 3: what do you do then just runs rampant?

1508
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:04,840
Speaker 1: Right? Has anybody drawn a line? Well, I'll explain what

1509
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 1: I'm getting at through different thing. I had a body

1510
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:11,519
Speaker 1: mine that worked on a project years ago. They were

1511
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 1: trying to draw a line at what could possibly be

1512
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:19,080
Speaker 1: the northward spread of the Burmese python. And it would

1513
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,439
Speaker 1: just be that you would put them in burrows, yeah,

1514
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:24,920
Speaker 1: like and make enclosures, put them in burrows and then

1515
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:26,320
Speaker 1: see if they car alled it out in the spring

1516
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:27,960
Speaker 1: or not. Yeah, right, because that's the thing is like

1517
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 1: at a point it's too cold, they can't over winter. Yeah,

1518
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 1: what what would be the line along the UA? Yeah,

1519
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:36,639
Speaker 1: and have you guys really refined Yeah?

1520
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:38,640
Speaker 3: No, So so that's something that again, there a lot

1521
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:43,960
Speaker 3: of it is. It's funny up until maybe honestly, probably

1522
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 3: the last year, there wasn't a whole lot of there's

1523
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 3: like all the historical old work that was done. It

1524
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 3: was really hard to find though. You know, even from

1525
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:53,599
Speaker 3: a teaching perspective, if we're trying to talk about screwerm,

1526
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:55,920
Speaker 3: I'm like trying to pull images and stuff like this,

1527
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:57,759
Speaker 3: and it's you know, I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel.

1528
01:23:58,280 --> 01:23:59,959
Speaker 3: And so a lot of this stuff wasn't.

1529
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:03,120
Speaker 1: Like old references or may not have exactly and.

1530
01:24:03,240 --> 01:24:04,519
Speaker 3: And some of that had to do with like the

1531
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 3: USA is like it's down in Panama, Like, we don't

1532
01:24:07,479 --> 01:24:09,760
Speaker 3: like the effort that we're going to put in to

1533
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 3: prepare all of this new material. It isn't an issue

1534
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:15,560
Speaker 3: for us at this moment. So when it comes to

1535
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:22,280
Speaker 3: uh kind of the expansion, like there there were cases

1536
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:27,120
Speaker 3: that it potentially would get up to Canada and really though,

1537
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 3: you're going to see it kind of this centralized you know,

1538
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:35,439
Speaker 3: up through up through Colorado. Uh Utah, Yeah, and so

1539
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:38,360
Speaker 3: and so you will see it in those locations. Again,

1540
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 3: it our biggest concern now at this point is livestock

1541
01:24:44,160 --> 01:24:46,800
Speaker 3: movement because obviously we have animals that are that are

1542
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:49,240
Speaker 3: moving and they get shipped from you know, let's say

1543
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:52,040
Speaker 3: New Mexico and then they get shipped over to Colorado,

1544
01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:54,000
Speaker 3: or they get shipped in Montana or they you know,

1545
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 3: who knows, and then it's well, we imported a case

1546
01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:59,040
Speaker 3: and so then it exists in this area and so

1547
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:02,559
Speaker 3: it may not stick around. But if you have an

1548
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:05,760
Speaker 3: impact where you know there. I know that back in

1549
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:10,240
Speaker 3: the thirties there was in one section of Texas, screwroom

1550
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 3: killed one hundred and eighty eight thousand cows in one year.

1551
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:15,280
Speaker 1: Are you serious?

1552
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:15,599
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1553
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:17,680
Speaker 1: And what timeframe was that?

1554
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 6: Again?

1555
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 3: That was in nineteen thirty three and one year three, Yeah,

1556
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 3: and so when when we first started seeing it, and

1557
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:26,559
Speaker 3: so yeah, and so it's a it is a big concern.

1558
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:30,839
Speaker 3: And again it's it's that problem of stopping forward progress.

1559
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:33,320
Speaker 3: And that's where you know, talking about this idea of

1560
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 3: is it a concern? It is a concern because at

1561
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 3: the moment we haven't been able to completely stop forward progress.

1562
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 3: And so it's you know, part of my whole thing

1563
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 3: here is to be able to communicate because it it

1564
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:50,800
Speaker 3: isn't something of well, hopefully it doesn't ever come to

1565
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:52,479
Speaker 3: the US and I don't have to deal with it, right,

1566
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 3: but if it does, we need a whole lot of

1567
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:59,280
Speaker 3: people to be able to identify, oh, hey this looks weird. Hey,

1568
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 3: I can submit a sample to you know, to confirm

1569
01:26:03,160 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 3: that that's what it is, and then we can you know,

1570
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 3: you know, the USDA has kind of put out their

1571
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:08,920
Speaker 3: their game plan on what they would do. It's like

1572
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 3: quarantine in an area, so that you restrict animal movement

1573
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:13,600
Speaker 3: and things like that.

1574
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:15,760
Speaker 1: For that the animals are going to be more likely

1575
01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 1: the animals are gonna be more likely to move it

1576
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:20,719
Speaker 1: long distances than the flies flying around.

1577
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:23,280
Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, so so the literature says that like, these

1578
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 3: flies can fly ten to fifteen miles. In practice, I

1579
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:30,640
Speaker 3: will will say, you know, it's the one thing that

1580
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:34,160
Speaker 3: science says and what happens practically, Like there's some studies

1581
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:37,040
Speaker 3: that show that house flies will fly twenty kilometers and

1582
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:39,840
Speaker 3: it's like one mark recapture study that someone did. It's like, no,

1583
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:42,360
Speaker 3: they're going to fly you know, one hundred yards to

1584
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:45,920
Speaker 3: your your neighbor's farm, you know. And so the movement

1585
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:51,920
Speaker 3: doesn't exist. And again, like scroom has relatively narrow tolerances

1586
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:54,120
Speaker 3: for temperature. One thing that's interesting about them is they

1587
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:56,559
Speaker 3: won't fly over bodies of water. Oh really, yeah, they'll

1588
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 3: fly along it so like a riparian area. But if

1589
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:03,599
Speaker 3: like the reason that we had we stopped the movement.

1590
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:07,439
Speaker 3: Different again, so you know.

1591
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:09,960
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you about just be interesting too, and

1592
01:27:10,040 --> 01:27:15,680
Speaker 1: it's kind of applicable man Like in and sort of

1593
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:20,240
Speaker 1: the immediate post nine to eleven era, I was working

1594
01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:23,600
Speaker 1: on a magazine piece where I was at a a

1595
01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:29,640
Speaker 1: I was at like a convention, what they called it

1596
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:35,519
Speaker 1: a stock detective convention that dealton livestock theft. And but

1597
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:39,599
Speaker 1: it had this whole biosecurity element to it. They had

1598
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:44,280
Speaker 1: found in Afghanistan when they're doing all their raids on

1599
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:48,439
Speaker 1: al Qaeda areas, they had found where they were like

1600
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:54,800
Speaker 1: swapping information about livestock diseases. Okay, like they were at

1601
01:27:54,880 --> 01:28:01,040
Speaker 1: least exploring the idea of a biohazard lives. So this

1602
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:04,400
Speaker 1: guy was there and he presented and I sat in

1603
01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:08,840
Speaker 1: on the presentation, and they ran models of say a

1604
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:12,240
Speaker 1: person went to a stockyard and I can't remember where

1605
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 1: his stockyard was. I mean it was somewhere in the

1606
01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:17,479
Speaker 1: central US, like Kansas or whatever. They're like, say a

1607
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:21,200
Speaker 1: terrorist went to a stockyard and they ran a scenario

1608
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:25,320
Speaker 1: where he swabbed the nose. He swabs a half dozen

1609
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 1: cows at a stockyard with an anthrax form, and they

1610
01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:35,320
Speaker 1: ran a model ye about its explosion, you know, and

1611
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:39,639
Speaker 1: it was like alarming, right, like movement of animals.

1612
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:40,439
Speaker 4: You know.

1613
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:45,439
Speaker 1: That kind of makes me think of this where with

1614
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:50,439
Speaker 1: the thing in the keys, Like do you ever have

1615
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:53,360
Speaker 1: I don't want to give anybody ideas out there. I

1616
01:28:53,360 --> 01:28:55,960
Speaker 1: don't know how many dudes listened to the show, but like,

1617
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,200
Speaker 1: has anybody ever brought this up that it could just

1618
01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:02,960
Speaker 1: be like a a like an economic weapon.

1619
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:05,360
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and and and that's something that we see

1620
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:08,120
Speaker 3: with you know, it's a concern with any of these uh,

1621
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:11,639
Speaker 3: either invasive species that we think of, you know, it's

1622
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:15,240
Speaker 3: bioterrorism at that point. And and it is it's it's

1623
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:18,760
Speaker 3: thinking about the movement of if it's screw them, if

1624
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 3: it's you know what a big thing is cattle fever tick,

1625
01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:26,160
Speaker 3: which is a huge deal, and so like if you

1626
01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:29,320
Speaker 3: were to move those into the US, that's going to

1627
01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 3: you know, or or even bringing in.

1628
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:33,080
Speaker 2: You know.

1629
01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:35,479
Speaker 3: A thing that I think is kind of relevant is

1630
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:37,760
Speaker 3: you know, with blue tongue virus, which is transmitted by

1631
01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:41,080
Speaker 3: these these biding midges, you know when we have outbreaks.

1632
01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:43,679
Speaker 3: You know, currently there's some weird dynamics of blue tongue

1633
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:47,280
Speaker 3: going on in Europe, Like you end up halting trade

1634
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 3: because of those things and the economic damage and kind

1635
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:56,240
Speaker 3: of you know, the downstream consequences that exist are are present.

1636
01:29:56,360 --> 01:29:59,240
Speaker 3: And so it is something that is it is thought

1637
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:02,720
Speaker 3: about what that really looks like. I don't know, you know,

1638
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:05,439
Speaker 3: it's it's I'm not sitting in on those meetings of

1639
01:30:05,479 --> 01:30:08,680
Speaker 3: people strategizing people like it even plausible or not, But

1640
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 3: I think it would be plausible, right. I think that

1641
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:14,840
Speaker 3: if you were to do that, it would just be

1642
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:17,640
Speaker 3: a matter of Yeah, with something like that, you'd have

1643
01:30:17,720 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 3: to start a colony, and you'd have to do all

1644
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:21,320
Speaker 3: this stuff to then get them to then bring them

1645
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:23,400
Speaker 3: to the US. And what that would look like to

1646
01:30:23,479 --> 01:30:25,439
Speaker 3: by some level of expertise, yeah, exactly.

1647
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:28,680
Speaker 1: You know, a while back, those a few weeks, few

1648
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:32,360
Speaker 1: months ago, maybe the Trump administration floated the idea that

1649
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:36,080
Speaker 1: like they're trying to you know, they like attacked egg prices, right,

1650
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 1: the Trump administration was like trying to like lower beef prices.

1651
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:45,320
Speaker 1: And there's this conversation of and I don't even know

1652
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 1: the dog might know how this works, but there's a conversation, well,

1653
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:52,200
Speaker 1: let's bring more beef from Argentina. Let's bring more beef

1654
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 1: from Mexico. Yeah, uh, this has planned all that, right.

1655
01:30:56,920 --> 01:31:01,080
Speaker 1: I mean, like you show up with a truckload, like

1656
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:04,320
Speaker 1: you show up at the Douglas Arizona crossing, yep. And

1657
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:05,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know how it works, but

1658
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:07,679
Speaker 1: like presumably you show up with a truckload of cows,

1659
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:14,759
Speaker 1: our guys customs or whatever, the veterinarian aspect of customs

1660
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:17,080
Speaker 1: in that's got to be a real question, right, So

1661
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 1: where they come from?

1662
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:20,479
Speaker 3: And yeah, so all the animal ports of entry are

1663
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:23,599
Speaker 3: currently closed due to screworm with Mexico are Yeah.

1664
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:25,920
Speaker 1: So that was kind of a non idea. Yes, you

1665
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:27,120
Speaker 1: could bring packaged meating.

1666
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:29,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so you could do something like that. And

1667
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:32,000
Speaker 3: one thing again, I'm I'm new to New Mexico, but

1668
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:35,720
Speaker 3: one thing that is interesting, you know, I guess for

1669
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:38,479
Speaker 3: everybody is that New Mexico has the largest animal port

1670
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:40,360
Speaker 3: of entry anywhere in the US. So we import more

1671
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:42,719
Speaker 3: than fifty percent of the cattle that come across from Mexico.

1672
01:31:42,920 --> 01:31:46,320
Speaker 3: At the Santa there said border crossing near all.

1673
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 1: Passes and it's closed because of screw worms.

1674
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:51,280
Speaker 3: It's so all of the border crossings are so Douglas Columbus,

1675
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:54,799
Speaker 3: any of them in Texas. We currently are not importing

1676
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 3: animals from Mexico because of screworm. So what that looks

1677
01:31:59,920 --> 01:32:03,080
Speaker 3: like like in different ways, I don't know. I'm not

1678
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:05,280
Speaker 3: an economist, so I can't speak to some of that,

1679
01:32:05,439 --> 01:32:09,280
Speaker 3: but what it it? Yeah, they're they're currently closed and

1680
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:13,280
Speaker 3: so uh and when they do real who whose call

1681
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:16,360
Speaker 3: is that to make ust It's yeah, it's APHIS's call,

1682
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:19,960
Speaker 3: and I think that, you know, there are going to

1683
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:22,200
Speaker 3: be some downstream consequences. You know, I have a I

1684
01:32:22,240 --> 01:32:25,479
Speaker 3: have a colleague who you know, works with you know,

1685
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:28,679
Speaker 3: he works in in cattle, and he was talking about,

1686
01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:31,000
Speaker 3: you know, just the drivers that you know, would be

1687
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:33,600
Speaker 3: bringing those animals across, so then truck them. You know,

1688
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:36,800
Speaker 3: the border has been closed for multiple months, and it's

1689
01:32:37,280 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 3: like they had to go find new jobs because that

1690
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:41,519
Speaker 3: was their job. So what's gonna happen when the ports

1691
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:44,439
Speaker 3: open back up. Are they just gonna you know, they

1692
01:32:44,479 --> 01:32:45,240
Speaker 3: all have new jobs.

1693
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:45,400
Speaker 4: You know.

1694
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:47,760
Speaker 3: It's kind of like when you know, when the when

1695
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:50,920
Speaker 3: the government fired all these USCA employees, it's like, oh, hey,

1696
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:53,240
Speaker 3: we know we actually needed those people. But like they

1697
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:55,240
Speaker 3: can't just sit there, so they went and found new jobs.

1698
01:32:55,280 --> 01:32:57,960
Speaker 1: Did they doze a bunch of screwroom guys? So not?

1699
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:02,400
Speaker 3: I think they tried with a lot of these things.

1700
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:04,120
Speaker 3: They were like, oh yeah, you've been here for you know,

1701
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:06,400
Speaker 3: because it was all these temporary employees. So if it

1702
01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:10,000
Speaker 3: was screw them or it was highpath avian influenza, they're like,

1703
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:11,880
Speaker 3: oh yeah, we need to fire all these people. And

1704
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:13,840
Speaker 3: they're like, oh no, we need those people, so they

1705
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:15,800
Speaker 3: like they fired them and then like took away their

1706
01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:18,080
Speaker 3: government emails and then brought them back. And it like,

1707
01:33:18,240 --> 01:33:20,800
Speaker 3: I you know, I'm I'm very good friends with the

1708
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:23,439
Speaker 3: people that run the screwerm lab. And it's been a

1709
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:28,599
Speaker 3: very and a lot of just uscay like oh shit,

1710
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:31,680
Speaker 3: we fired him, yeah, call him back, Yeah yeah, Well,

1711
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:34,240
Speaker 3: and and that's kind of the whole thing, right, and

1712
01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:36,680
Speaker 3: and so it is. It's there's a lot of these

1713
01:33:36,720 --> 01:33:39,800
Speaker 3: infrastructure pieces that we don't know what it's going to

1714
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:41,360
Speaker 3: look like. And there's a lot of people that want

1715
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:45,080
Speaker 3: that border to open, but the and there's going to

1716
01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:49,040
Speaker 3: be policies. So like currently the the process will be,

1717
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:52,360
Speaker 3: you know, the animals already dipped with kumafas when they

1718
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:55,559
Speaker 3: come across the border anyways, like to deal with cattle fever,

1719
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:58,960
Speaker 3: tick or other ectoparasites. But they're going to be treating

1720
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:01,920
Speaker 3: them with ivermectin and moving them across the border when

1721
01:34:01,960 --> 01:34:02,959
Speaker 3: that ends up opening.

1722
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:06,240
Speaker 1: COVID medication those jokes, yeah, aha, for.

1723
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:08,320
Speaker 3: Us, it's one of these things that it's like it's

1724
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 3: a it's been something that has been used for so

1725
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:16,160
Speaker 3: long in both human and animal production systems. And so,

1726
01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:18,639
Speaker 3: but there are going to be all of these different

1727
01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 3: things that go on. But yeah, currently the borders are

1728
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:25,400
Speaker 3: shut down because of that, so they're yeah, what that

1729
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:29,840
Speaker 3: looks like moving forward? I know that there's like rumblings

1730
01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:32,479
Speaker 3: that people want it to open, but it also doesn't

1731
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:35,200
Speaker 3: seem like we're anywhere near that actually being the case.

1732
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:40,120
Speaker 1: Let's jump to an area. Let's let's jump into an

1733
01:34:40,120 --> 01:34:43,120
Speaker 1: area where there is like high rates. Okay, like a

1734
01:34:43,200 --> 01:34:44,000
Speaker 1: real trouble spot.

1735
01:34:44,080 --> 01:34:44,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1736
01:34:46,280 --> 01:34:49,240
Speaker 1: Uh, well he talked about it with cattle, but it's

1737
01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:52,240
Speaker 1: like in an area that has screworm, it's got to

1738
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:55,160
Speaker 1: it's it's somewhat indiscriminate, right, correct, But I mean like, yeah,

1739
01:34:55,320 --> 01:34:58,479
Speaker 1: there's not like a deer strain and a cow strain.

1740
01:34:58,600 --> 01:34:59,920
Speaker 1: It's like all things get hit.

1741
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:03,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and I focus I've focused mostly on cattle.

1742
01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:06,000
Speaker 1: Here pull that picture because yeah, I saw a dog.

1743
01:35:06,160 --> 01:35:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1744
01:35:06,360 --> 01:35:06,679
Speaker 1: Correct.

1745
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:10,559
Speaker 3: And so in Mexico currently, the uh if you look

1746
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:12,880
Speaker 3: at the distribution of in that middle one is a

1747
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 3: video too. If you click on it, I can't, Oh

1748
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:16,400
Speaker 3: you can't, okay, No, it's okay.

1749
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:17,519
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1750
01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:22,559
Speaker 3: So so in Mexico, the number one infestation is in cattle.

1751
01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:26,479
Speaker 3: Number two is in dogs. And part of that though,

1752
01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:29,720
Speaker 3: is brain paying open up. Yeah yeah, and so and

1753
01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:31,559
Speaker 3: then that they got through the bone.

1754
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:32,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1755
01:35:32,160 --> 01:35:34,520
Speaker 3: So so they're just chewing through everything.

1756
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:35,719
Speaker 1: They can chew through your bones.

1757
01:35:35,960 --> 01:35:38,519
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly how that all looks, uh, to

1758
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:44,479
Speaker 3: be completely honest, but yeah, it's not great. And so again,

1759
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:48,200
Speaker 3: so it is, it's indiscriminate. And I talk, I talk

1760
01:35:48,240 --> 01:35:51,000
Speaker 3: a lot about cattle. But that's because that's the thing

1761
01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:53,280
Speaker 3: that we look at right like we're looking at animals,

1762
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 3: we're running them through a shoot, we're doing all of that.

1763
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:56,479
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's just like a lot.

1764
01:35:56,760 --> 01:35:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1765
01:35:57,040 --> 01:36:00,640
Speaker 3: So that's a key deer that has its brain uh

1766
01:36:01,960 --> 01:36:02,719
Speaker 3: essentially eaten.

1767
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:06,120
Speaker 4: So it's alive with like a hole in its skull,

1768
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:10,839
Speaker 4: correct and its brain exposed. That beautiful.

1769
01:36:11,040 --> 01:36:13,240
Speaker 1: But they didn't get in on him. They didn't get

1770
01:36:13,320 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 1: in on him because he dropped his no. No. So

1771
01:36:16,439 --> 01:36:18,280
Speaker 1: that's just a he's.

1772
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:20,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1773
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:23,240
Speaker 3: And so again it's it's one of these things that

1774
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:29,880
Speaker 3: my concern and again, like wanting to communicate to a group,

1775
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:33,559
Speaker 3: you know, a group of outdoors people, is that we're

1776
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:35,599
Speaker 3: not looking at animals, you know, we're not looking at

1777
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:39,479
Speaker 3: wildlife because we're you know, We're not rounding up deer

1778
01:36:39,560 --> 01:36:41,760
Speaker 3: and running them through a shoot to inspect them, right.

1779
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:43,360
Speaker 1: And so yeah, you don't take a dry you know,

1780
01:36:43,400 --> 01:36:45,120
Speaker 1: no one's taking a drive every morning, and you see

1781
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:46,080
Speaker 1: how the hurts exactly.

1782
01:36:46,160 --> 01:36:49,439
Speaker 3: And so the problem is is that, yeah, it's gonna

1783
01:36:49,439 --> 01:36:51,439
Speaker 3: get into wildlife and it's going to run rampant in

1784
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:54,240
Speaker 3: wildlife because wildlife are going to get to places people

1785
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:56,719
Speaker 3: can't get to. Sure, and then it's going to exist

1786
01:36:56,800 --> 01:36:59,479
Speaker 3: and you're going to have animals that die, and then

1787
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:02,679
Speaker 3: the those maggots are going to crawl off pupid, emerge

1788
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:04,839
Speaker 3: as adults, and they're going to infect some other animals,

1789
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:07,400
Speaker 3: and it's going to be this you know, propagating issue.

1790
01:37:07,560 --> 01:37:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it could live in a deer herd. Correct,

1791
01:37:10,160 --> 01:37:13,120
Speaker 1: It could live in a deer herd somewhere for some

1792
01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:16,519
Speaker 1: period of time before a stockman realizes correct.

1793
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:20,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so and that's kind of the concern. And

1794
01:37:20,080 --> 01:37:23,800
Speaker 3: so in Mexico, you know, talking to these veterinarians that

1795
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:26,640
Speaker 3: we brought up for this training, they were saying, like

1796
01:37:26,720 --> 01:37:29,320
Speaker 3: we asked about wildlife, They're like, oh, yeah, one hundred

1797
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:32,920
Speaker 3: percent is in wildlife. We just we can't we can't

1798
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:37,120
Speaker 3: document those cases, and so because of that, it's it

1799
01:37:37,280 --> 01:37:41,160
Speaker 3: is it's this kind of this area that kind of

1800
01:37:41,280 --> 01:37:43,240
Speaker 3: exists that we don't really know what to do with.

1801
01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:47,360
Speaker 3: And even when it comes to you know, outreach and

1802
01:37:47,640 --> 01:37:49,920
Speaker 3: stuff like that, we can go to a you know,

1803
01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:52,800
Speaker 3: cattleman's association meeting, we can talk to brand inspectors, we

1804
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:54,320
Speaker 3: can do a lot of that type of stuff. But

1805
01:37:54,960 --> 01:37:58,040
Speaker 3: when it comes to communicating to a bunch of hunters

1806
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:02,200
Speaker 3: or outdoors people in general, it's a more challenging kind

1807
01:38:02,240 --> 01:38:05,280
Speaker 3: of environment to be able to communicate to them, to develop, uh,

1808
01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:08,200
Speaker 3: you know, different tools to be able to you know,

1809
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:10,400
Speaker 3: do that. You know, a couple of colleagues of mine

1810
01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:13,680
Speaker 3: we're putting together a survey for New Mexico where we

1811
01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:18,479
Speaker 3: went to uh, survey hunters, you know, kind of outdoors people,

1812
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:22,160
Speaker 3: cattle producers in the general public. I recognize that there's

1813
01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:24,600
Speaker 3: a certain type of person that answers surveys, but it

1814
01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:26,519
Speaker 3: is still one of these things that we.

1815
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:27,160
Speaker 1: Want to be able to do.

1816
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:29,800
Speaker 3: You answer surveys, Yeah, yeah, it could be that could

1817
01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:30,639
Speaker 3: be the first question.

1818
01:38:31,160 --> 01:38:31,479
Speaker 4: But it is.

1819
01:38:32,479 --> 01:38:38,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it is something Yeah, yeah, it's something that

1820
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:40,840
Speaker 3: in the next couple of weeks that that's something that

1821
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:44,280
Speaker 3: we're gonna put out to try to just see what

1822
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:45,600
Speaker 3: people know, what people don't know.

1823
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:47,719
Speaker 1: Tell people what look for, like, yeah, all the woods,

1824
01:38:48,280 --> 01:38:50,760
Speaker 1: you're out running around whatever, and then here you see

1825
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:52,160
Speaker 1: a blank yeah.

1826
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:54,799
Speaker 3: So and so some of that is going to be challenging,

1827
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 3: right because if you if you see a dead animal

1828
01:38:57,000 --> 01:38:59,400
Speaker 3: and you see maggots, you'll see that right, like that's

1829
01:38:59,439 --> 01:39:02,000
Speaker 3: just gonna happen, and with a decomposing animal, and so

1830
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:04,960
Speaker 3: some of it is just a matter of if you

1831
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:08,040
Speaker 3: see that, that's something that you should be reporting. A

1832
01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:10,360
Speaker 3: dead animal with magots, a dead animal with maggots. So

1833
01:39:10,439 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 3: you saw it's just this morning reported dead hole in

1834
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:15,120
Speaker 3: a tree exactly. Yeah, and so but again it's it's

1835
01:39:15,200 --> 01:39:19,240
Speaker 3: one of these things that it will be especially important

1836
01:39:20,120 --> 01:39:22,360
Speaker 3: if in win screworm kits here, but it is going

1837
01:39:22,439 --> 01:39:24,639
Speaker 3: to be kind of a early reporting thing as well.

1838
01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:29,360
Speaker 3: So depending on the state that you're in. I had,

1839
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:34,479
Speaker 3: oh yeah, in New Mexico at all of our extension offices.

1840
01:39:34,520 --> 01:39:36,320
Speaker 3: I know Arizona's doing a similar thing. We have these

1841
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 3: collection kits that people can request or get and pretty

1842
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:44,639
Speaker 3: much what it comes with is a set of tweezers.

1843
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:48,559
Speaker 3: It comes with a vial that has seventy percent ethanol

1844
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:51,000
Speaker 3: in it, and then it comes with a QR code

1845
01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:54,439
Speaker 3: and it pretty much says collect maggots from these different

1846
01:39:54,479 --> 01:39:58,040
Speaker 3: locations and then essentially you can then submit it to

1847
01:39:58,439 --> 01:40:01,519
Speaker 3: the New Mexico Department of rom Live stuff, no from

1848
01:40:01,680 --> 01:40:04,559
Speaker 3: and from dead things as well. I think that it's

1849
01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:07,439
Speaker 3: one of these things that we're looking more for a

1850
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:11,960
Speaker 3: living animal that has things in it. But for hunters,

1851
01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:13,000
Speaker 3: you know, you're not going to get them.

1852
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:15,880
Speaker 5: You just harvested deer, Yeah, and you immediately look it

1853
01:40:15,960 --> 01:40:19,200
Speaker 5: over right, exactly well, and that's and that's really where

1854
01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:22,640
Speaker 5: you know, I'm trying to communicate is, yeah, you're going

1855
01:40:22,680 --> 01:40:24,360
Speaker 5: to be looking at animals in a way that the

1856
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:25,240
Speaker 5: rest of us aren't.

1857
01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:29,320
Speaker 3: Right, And and again we're especially in southern New Mexico

1858
01:40:29,400 --> 01:40:31,559
Speaker 3: where you know, we have a number of those exotics

1859
01:40:31,640 --> 01:40:34,080
Speaker 3: and everything like that. It's going to be something that

1860
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:37,200
Speaker 3: people are handling those animals because they've harvested them to

1861
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:40,840
Speaker 3: look them over, look for maggots, anything like that. And

1862
01:40:40,960 --> 01:40:43,840
Speaker 3: so obviously if you were to come across an animal

1863
01:40:43,880 --> 01:40:45,760
Speaker 3: and it's just skull and bones in the you know,

1864
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:50,200
Speaker 3: am I saying that you should collect maggots. Probably not,

1865
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 3: but it also wouldn't hurt you know, part of the

1866
01:40:53,439 --> 01:40:57,280
Speaker 3: New Mexico Department of Bag and you know ag agencies

1867
01:40:57,320 --> 01:40:59,880
Speaker 3: in general across the country. Part of what they're doing

1868
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:02,800
Speaker 3: right now is processing samples if it's adult flies, if

1869
01:41:02,840 --> 01:41:05,679
Speaker 3: it's maggots, just to monitor, yeah, just to monitor.

1870
01:41:06,240 --> 01:41:08,800
Speaker 1: The wildlife agencies take interest. Yet is it mostly the

1871
01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:09,479
Speaker 1: egg commission?

1872
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:12,640
Speaker 3: So it's mostly the community. So in New Mexico, we

1873
01:41:13,960 --> 01:41:16,439
Speaker 3: Fish and Wildlife put out kind of a call. It

1874
01:41:16,520 --> 01:41:18,880
Speaker 3: was an email to anyone that drew a tag last

1875
01:41:18,960 --> 01:41:21,240
Speaker 3: year essentially saying, hey, be on the lookout for this.

1876
01:41:22,120 --> 01:41:25,360
Speaker 3: I don't know of any other agencies that are currently

1877
01:41:25,439 --> 01:41:27,880
Speaker 3: doing that, though I think that it is a really

1878
01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:32,280
Speaker 3: great thing to kind of be able to do that.

1879
01:41:32,360 --> 01:41:35,040
Speaker 3: So like I got an email, A colleague of mine

1880
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:36,439
Speaker 3: got an email, and I was like, oh, okay, actually

1881
01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:39,400
Speaker 3: they're doing something. But that's part of the challenge is

1882
01:41:39,479 --> 01:41:42,479
Speaker 3: because it is this whole other group that we don't

1883
01:41:42,600 --> 01:41:46,839
Speaker 3: traditionally interface with, and so it's getting those people involved.

1884
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:51,320
Speaker 3: And the other challenge is that you know, every state

1885
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:54,360
Speaker 3: has their own state response. Obviously it's all governed by

1886
01:41:54,360 --> 01:41:58,519
Speaker 3: the USDA, but what Texas is doing, and what New

1887
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:01,200
Speaker 3: Mexico is doing, and what Airs is doing, what California

1888
01:42:01,280 --> 01:42:03,400
Speaker 3: is doing, they're all slightly different. And a lot of

1889
01:42:03,439 --> 01:42:06,040
Speaker 3: that has to do with kind of funding structures and

1890
01:42:06,120 --> 01:42:10,000
Speaker 3: where stuff like that is coming from and so and

1891
01:42:10,240 --> 01:42:12,920
Speaker 3: the way that people are developing things. And so again,

1892
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:16,960
Speaker 3: my kind of call is is if you see something,

1893
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:19,280
Speaker 3: say something in a lot of ways because I think

1894
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:22,559
Speaker 3: that it's it's something that is going to be a concern.

1895
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:25,719
Speaker 3: And if you're concerned about the environment, you're concerned about

1896
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:30,479
Speaker 3: the health of wildlife, you know, that's a big concern

1897
01:42:31,120 --> 01:42:31,679
Speaker 3: on that front.

1898
01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:36,760
Speaker 1: You know, we have a lot of conversations about mortality

1899
01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:39,400
Speaker 1: events with wildlife, and there's this question of like is

1900
01:42:39,439 --> 01:42:42,560
Speaker 1: it a population level impact, Meaning someone might look and

1901
01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:47,160
Speaker 1: say lead ammunition can lead to some rapt or death

1902
01:42:47,320 --> 01:42:51,040
Speaker 1: because they're ingesting fragments of lead from carcasses they scavenge

1903
01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:53,519
Speaker 1: or left by hunters. And someone might counter that by

1904
01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:57,519
Speaker 1: saying that happens, it's not a population level impact. Or

1905
01:42:58,280 --> 01:43:01,040
Speaker 1: wind turbines, you know, on or bird species. It might

1906
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:03,839
Speaker 1: be like, yes, for sure, but it's not a population

1907
01:43:03,920 --> 01:43:05,880
Speaker 1: level impact. The same way you look and you'd say here,

1908
01:43:06,040 --> 01:43:09,200
Speaker 1: Like man, cars hit and kill a lot of deer

1909
01:43:10,080 --> 01:43:13,160
Speaker 1: right most every week you see a new dead deer

1910
01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 1: somewhere around these neighborhoods that we're in right now. Ye,

1911
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:23,160
Speaker 1: but it's not a population level impact in your opinion,

1912
01:43:23,320 --> 01:43:27,680
Speaker 1: Is it possible to have population level impacts on wildlife

1913
01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:31,479
Speaker 1: considering that it has that this stuff needs to be wounded?

1914
01:43:31,840 --> 01:43:32,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1915
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:32,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I.

1916
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:37,720
Speaker 3: I couldn't say, like truly, I think some of it

1917
01:43:39,240 --> 01:43:41,479
Speaker 3: what that really looks like. I think if it were

1918
01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:44,000
Speaker 3: to just run rampant, you potentially would see that. You know,

1919
01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:46,639
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about you know, like ORX in New Mexico

1920
01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:49,280
Speaker 3: or something like that. I could see a population level

1921
01:43:49,320 --> 01:43:52,320
Speaker 3: impact there, right Are you going to see that in.

1922
01:43:52,360 --> 01:43:54,200
Speaker 1: An area would have a thing that's confined to a

1923
01:43:54,280 --> 01:43:57,320
Speaker 1: relatively small anyways and it's not a huge population anyways.

1924
01:43:57,400 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, or you know where we're talking prong horned populations

1925
01:43:59,479 --> 01:44:00,640
Speaker 3: in New Mexico or anything like that.

1926
01:44:00,760 --> 01:44:06,599
Speaker 1: A good point in a reduced vulnerable population, a population

1927
01:44:06,760 --> 01:44:08,800
Speaker 1: level impact could be for adults.

1928
01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:11,080
Speaker 3: Correct, And so that's where I think you're going to

1929
01:44:11,160 --> 01:44:13,920
Speaker 3: see impacts. Do I think that it's there's going to

1930
01:44:13,960 --> 01:44:15,880
Speaker 3: be a population level impact to white tail deer.

1931
01:44:16,160 --> 01:44:20,080
Speaker 1: No, probably not, like it's like it's additive mortel for

1932
01:44:20,200 --> 01:44:23,400
Speaker 1: some populations like the key deer losing a handful of

1933
01:44:23,479 --> 01:44:24,599
Speaker 1: mature animals as a hit.

1934
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:27,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so I think they lost one hundred and

1935
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 3: fifty deer or something like that, which is a huge

1936
01:44:30,080 --> 01:44:34,560
Speaker 3: number with what the population is. And so I I

1937
01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:38,840
Speaker 3: can't speak to that from the that And I also

1938
01:44:38,920 --> 01:44:41,880
Speaker 3: don't know if anyone has ever tried modeling it or

1939
01:44:42,200 --> 01:44:44,400
Speaker 3: anything like that. We say that it will have an

1940
01:44:44,439 --> 01:44:47,920
Speaker 3: impact on wildlife, but that's the challenge, is that how

1941
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:51,640
Speaker 3: do you actually you know, it hasn't been here for

1942
01:44:52,680 --> 01:44:57,880
Speaker 3: like in being endemic for fifty plus years, and so

1943
01:44:59,080 --> 01:45:01,240
Speaker 3: what that looks like they were modeling, how they were

1944
01:45:01,280 --> 01:45:04,599
Speaker 3: doing any of that. It's completely changed. And so yeah,

1945
01:45:04,600 --> 01:45:07,360
Speaker 3: I don't know. I can't definitively say, but some of

1946
01:45:07,439 --> 01:45:10,200
Speaker 3: these more vulnerable populations, I could imagine it being a

1947
01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:15,280
Speaker 3: concern and then that's going to change, you know, tag

1948
01:45:15,320 --> 01:45:17,680
Speaker 3: allocation and anything else like that, and so it's going

1949
01:45:17,720 --> 01:45:19,360
Speaker 3: to be a kind of concern overall.

1950
01:45:24,320 --> 01:45:27,720
Speaker 1: We mentioned getting on dogs and Mexico on dogs, is

1951
01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:30,800
Speaker 1: that mostly like are they seeing it on that's just

1952
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:32,360
Speaker 1: like feral dogs, street dogs.

1953
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:33,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so much.

1954
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:34,240
Speaker 1: Pets.

1955
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:35,200
Speaker 3: No, so you'll see it in.

1956
01:45:35,240 --> 01:45:38,320
Speaker 1: Pets as well. You might have your dog go home,

1957
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:39,120
Speaker 1: be like what in the world?

1958
01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:43,040
Speaker 3: Correct, And so that's actually something that currently whenever an

1959
01:45:43,040 --> 01:45:47,479
Speaker 3: animal is brought from a endemic zone in Mexico across

1960
01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:50,639
Speaker 3: the border, the animals are supposed to have a certified

1961
01:45:50,720 --> 01:45:52,000
Speaker 3: ved inspection and.

1962
01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:53,280
Speaker 1: That's the things they would look for.

1963
01:45:53,479 --> 01:45:55,120
Speaker 3: And that's one of the So that's the reason that

1964
01:45:55,240 --> 01:45:59,400
Speaker 3: it currently exists for companion animals is so that screworm

1965
01:45:59,439 --> 01:46:03,439
Speaker 3: because scream coming across and and that you know, some

1966
01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:06,680
Speaker 3: people are very concerned about. That's how scrowm would get

1967
01:46:06,680 --> 01:46:08,600
Speaker 3: here is because you know, we already.

1968
01:46:08,360 --> 01:46:10,519
Speaker 1: Have my buddy. Yeah, I don't want to read them out.

1969
01:46:10,720 --> 01:46:12,800
Speaker 1: And the dog's dead anyways, in the so long ago

1970
01:46:13,720 --> 01:46:16,720
Speaker 1: he he smuggled a Mexico dog home. Yeah, named it

1971
01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:21,680
Speaker 1: number seven and uh died long ago. Okay, Uh, but

1972
01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:23,280
Speaker 1: you know you wouldn't be able to water board it

1973
01:46:23,320 --> 01:46:23,880
Speaker 1: out of me? Who did?

1974
01:46:24,280 --> 01:46:24,559
Speaker 2: Okay?

1975
01:46:25,439 --> 01:46:27,519
Speaker 4: What about uh? Wild hogs?

1976
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:29,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, Texas, Yeah.

1977
01:46:29,880 --> 01:46:34,920
Speaker 4: A huge fear around so yeah around screw yeah.

1978
01:46:35,200 --> 01:46:38,920
Speaker 3: So that's it, like hogs and well just just think

1979
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:44,000
Speaker 3: about you know them, you know interacting wounding themselves or others,

1980
01:46:44,040 --> 01:46:45,200
Speaker 3: and then kind of what that's going to do, and

1981
01:46:45,240 --> 01:46:48,200
Speaker 3: then the movement all exactly in so.

1982
01:46:48,360 --> 01:46:51,599
Speaker 4: Many Texas, like suburban urban areas.

1983
01:46:51,640 --> 01:46:54,720
Speaker 3: And it's funny, you know when we've when I've been

1984
01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:56,920
Speaker 3: in strategy meetings about like, all right, well what happens

1985
01:46:57,000 --> 01:47:00,519
Speaker 3: because it'll probably get to Texas first. It's just that

1986
01:47:00,880 --> 01:47:03,960
Speaker 3: really exposed border and where the cases are, it'll probably

1987
01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:06,320
Speaker 3: get into Texas first. And so we're like, all right,

1988
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:09,120
Speaker 3: it's probably more of a concern for us to deal with,

1989
01:47:09,680 --> 01:47:11,640
Speaker 3: you know, screw them coming from Texas than it is

1990
01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:13,760
Speaker 3: from Mexico. And so we're kind of thinking from that

1991
01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:17,080
Speaker 3: that eastern side of our state where we have a

1992
01:47:17,120 --> 01:47:19,360
Speaker 3: bunch of cattle productions are coming. Yeah, we have a

1993
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:21,479
Speaker 3: we have a bunch of cattle production and there's a

1994
01:47:21,760 --> 01:47:24,280
Speaker 3: huge wild hog problem there. And so we're like, all right,

1995
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:26,280
Speaker 3: this is a this is a place that we need

1996
01:47:26,360 --> 01:47:28,560
Speaker 3: to be able to monitor and kind of deal with

1997
01:47:28,760 --> 01:47:32,000
Speaker 3: when it comes to a lot of that is Yeah,

1998
01:47:32,040 --> 01:47:34,960
Speaker 3: So so wild hogs are are definitely a concern, and

1999
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:36,240
Speaker 3: it's kind of like, all right, well what do we

2000
01:47:36,320 --> 01:47:36,720
Speaker 3: do with them?

2001
01:47:37,080 --> 01:47:37,200
Speaker 4: Uh?

2002
01:47:37,880 --> 01:47:39,760
Speaker 3: Just you know, it's our it's already a problem just

2003
01:47:39,800 --> 01:47:43,200
Speaker 3: from their damage, let alone. From now they're going to

2004
01:47:43,200 --> 01:47:44,400
Speaker 3: be carrying Screwroom around.

2005
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:47,880
Speaker 1: M M. What do you got, Doug?

2006
01:47:49,120 --> 01:47:51,680
Speaker 2: I got a new band name. It's called the New

2007
01:47:51,720 --> 01:47:52,759
Speaker 2: World screw Worms.

2008
01:47:53,000 --> 01:47:55,040
Speaker 1: That's like heavy metal. It's like, it's like goar.

2009
01:47:55,479 --> 01:47:57,920
Speaker 2: And the album is called Problem of the Americas.

2010
01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:08,160
Speaker 1: I uh, good album like that? An I uh, I

2011
01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:11,840
Speaker 1: could see a band Problem with the Americas. Yeah, that's

2012
01:48:11,880 --> 01:48:15,480
Speaker 1: what it wouldn't be death metal. Oh yeah, screw is hardcore,

2013
01:48:16,520 --> 01:48:19,160
Speaker 1: hardcore death metal, like the kind of stuff you don't

2014
01:48:19,160 --> 01:48:21,000
Speaker 1: you want your kids to listen to. That's the kind

2015
01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:22,080
Speaker 1: of music screw Room makes.

2016
01:48:24,280 --> 01:48:26,439
Speaker 2: Beyond that, I I thought when I saw this.

2017
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:30,280
Speaker 5: Title and started reading a little bit about it, I'm like, well,

2018
01:48:30,320 --> 01:48:33,400
Speaker 5: this ought to be interesting, and it's been fascinating.

2019
01:48:33,960 --> 01:48:35,960
Speaker 1: You came down here thinking you wouldn't be interested. I

2020
01:48:36,040 --> 01:48:38,240
Speaker 1: thought I had you come because I knew you'd be interested.

2021
01:48:38,320 --> 01:48:43,160
Speaker 5: Well, I didn't know how interested I would be. The

2022
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:45,160
Speaker 5: whole thing with cattle, I mean, i've you know, like

2023
01:48:46,479 --> 01:48:49,720
Speaker 5: you cut the antler, I'm sorry, the horns off. I

2024
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:51,800
Speaker 5: just remember this blue coat was the blue stuff that

2025
01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:52,599
Speaker 5: would spray.

2026
01:48:54,400 --> 01:48:55,599
Speaker 1: Was a stockman. But retired.

2027
01:48:56,360 --> 01:49:00,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, but so you cut the horns off cows and

2028
01:49:00,920 --> 01:49:04,000
Speaker 5: then and you know, if you do it too or

2029
01:49:04,080 --> 01:49:07,040
Speaker 5: too late in the spring, then the flies get in

2030
01:49:07,120 --> 01:49:08,760
Speaker 5: there and then the mag But the maggots do a

2031
01:49:08,840 --> 01:49:11,800
Speaker 5: really great job of cleaning up all of the I

2032
01:49:11,960 --> 01:49:13,960
Speaker 5: it's just all these weird things you saw life or

2033
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:16,360
Speaker 5: death on the farm kind of stuff. And so those

2034
01:49:16,400 --> 01:49:18,720
Speaker 5: are all the images that were going through my head.

2035
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:22,080
Speaker 5: And yeah, I think I have had everything else answered.

2036
01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:24,240
Speaker 2: Doug.

2037
01:49:24,360 --> 01:49:27,719
Speaker 1: You you're going on to speaking, you have some speaking

2038
01:49:27,760 --> 01:49:29,639
Speaker 1: engagements coming up. Where're gonna discuss screw?

2039
01:49:30,840 --> 01:49:32,640
Speaker 2: Well? I would try to. I'll tell you what I'm

2040
01:49:32,680 --> 01:49:33,400
Speaker 2: gonna try to work in.

2041
01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:38,240
Speaker 4: Repertoire.

2042
01:49:38,280 --> 01:49:39,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, where are you gonna speak?

2043
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:43,120
Speaker 5: I'm doing some fun stuff. I will be at peasant

2044
01:49:43,160 --> 01:49:45,439
Speaker 5: Fest as I have been for the last several years,

2045
01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:48,960
Speaker 5: and talking on the Habitat stage about working with the

2046
01:49:49,000 --> 01:49:53,080
Speaker 5: Fish and Wildlife Service on a on a project and

2047
01:49:53,240 --> 01:49:56,479
Speaker 5: in our on our farm. And I'm also talking in

2048
01:49:56,640 --> 01:50:00,719
Speaker 5: the Path to the Upland stage about making a contribution

2049
01:50:00,840 --> 01:50:04,800
Speaker 5: to conservation and building a conservation resume. The other couple

2050
01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:07,000
Speaker 5: of talks are really, you know, kind of fun. One

2051
01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:11,920
Speaker 5: of them is all of the county conservationists in the

2052
01:50:12,040 --> 01:50:14,080
Speaker 5: state come together for a convention every year and then

2053
01:50:14,080 --> 01:50:15,479
Speaker 5: they bring in all these other people and I'm going

2054
01:50:15,560 --> 01:50:18,320
Speaker 5: to be the keynote speaker. They're talking about working with

2055
01:50:18,600 --> 01:50:27,560
Speaker 5: landowners to move conservation forward. And then in Northern Illinois

2056
01:50:28,120 --> 01:50:31,880
Speaker 5: a forestry association sort of the same idea that if

2057
01:50:31,880 --> 01:50:34,840
Speaker 5: we're going to do anything on a landscape level, we

2058
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:38,360
Speaker 5: really need to involve private landowners and a great way

2059
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:42,599
Speaker 5: to do that is through sharing the land and getting

2060
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:45,639
Speaker 5: things done on private property like burns and that sort

2061
01:50:45,640 --> 01:50:47,519
Speaker 5: of stuff where you need a lot of people for

2062
01:50:47,560 --> 01:50:51,639
Speaker 5: a short period of time. That's one of the things

2063
01:50:51,640 --> 01:50:54,040
Speaker 5: that we're going to be talking about there, is getting

2064
01:50:54,120 --> 01:50:56,719
Speaker 5: people involved with conservation on private land.

2065
01:50:57,200 --> 01:50:59,240
Speaker 1: Do you have a way if people want to check in,

2066
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:03,200
Speaker 1: if people want to track the activities of Bubbly Doug,

2067
01:51:03,240 --> 01:51:05,240
Speaker 1: where do they go to find out where you're going

2068
01:51:05,280 --> 01:51:06,240
Speaker 1: to be Someone wants to come.

2069
01:51:06,160 --> 01:51:09,200
Speaker 2: Meet you or hear you Sharing land dot com.

2070
01:51:10,800 --> 01:51:12,040
Speaker 1: And you'll have an events calendar.

2071
01:51:12,120 --> 01:51:14,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's an events calendar there. And and then on

2072
01:51:14,439 --> 01:51:18,360
Speaker 5: my website, Doug Duran dot com, there's an events calendar

2073
01:51:18,439 --> 01:51:21,840
Speaker 5: there too. You can follow me on Instagram and you know,

2074
01:51:22,120 --> 01:51:24,360
Speaker 5: ignore the stuff that you don't want to read about,

2075
01:51:24,439 --> 01:51:25,559
Speaker 5: and pay attention to.

2076
01:51:26,560 --> 01:51:29,000
Speaker 1: Pay attention to the stuff that you do, you know,

2077
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:33,160
Speaker 1: and then where do people what's the best resource people

2078
01:51:33,200 --> 01:51:34,880
Speaker 1: that want to read up on screwworm.

2079
01:51:35,160 --> 01:51:38,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I guess a couple of things that the

2080
01:51:38,800 --> 01:51:42,120
Speaker 3: USDA and APHIS have done a really good job at

2081
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:45,640
Speaker 3: kind of putting out a lot of really good resources

2082
01:51:45,760 --> 01:51:50,160
Speaker 3: kind of over time. And so if you just you know, Google, uh, screwerm,

2083
01:51:50,200 --> 01:51:53,320
Speaker 3: you'll end up finding some different some different resources there

2084
01:51:54,120 --> 01:51:57,240
Speaker 3: if you're kind of interested in what's going on in

2085
01:51:57,320 --> 01:52:00,559
Speaker 3: New Mexico specifically or in kind of some of these

2086
01:52:00,600 --> 01:52:05,040
Speaker 3: southern states. So you can go to my website, hovered.

2087
01:52:04,800 --> 01:52:06,200
Speaker 1: Lab dot com. Yeah, how'd you wrought up with a

2088
01:52:06,280 --> 01:52:07,559
Speaker 1: lab named after you? Yeah?

2089
01:52:08,320 --> 01:52:10,040
Speaker 3: So, well that's my last name.

2090
01:52:10,680 --> 01:52:13,880
Speaker 1: I got to so you founded the lab? Yes, because

2091
01:52:13,880 --> 01:52:16,040
Speaker 1: we have a guy on like Monteith he has he

2092
01:52:16,080 --> 01:52:19,200
Speaker 1: has his lab they called the Monteethe Shop. But yeah, like, yeah,

2093
01:52:19,320 --> 01:52:21,000
Speaker 1: he's a researcher that has his own shot.

2094
01:52:21,080 --> 01:52:23,600
Speaker 3: I will say that I'm just not creative, and so

2095
01:52:23,800 --> 01:52:25,200
Speaker 3: it was one of those things of it.

2096
01:52:25,400 --> 01:52:27,240
Speaker 1: But you founded I don't mean how'd you want? I

2097
01:52:27,400 --> 01:52:29,960
Speaker 1: mean why is named that? But you came in Yeah, yeah,

2098
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:33,479
Speaker 1: so you came in and founded yeah, like an entomology lab. Correct.

2099
01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2100
01:52:33,720 --> 01:52:36,280
Speaker 3: So I got hired as an assistant professor at New

2101
01:52:36,320 --> 01:52:39,240
Speaker 3: Mexico State, and so part of my job is I'm

2102
01:52:39,400 --> 01:52:42,679
Speaker 3: seventy five percent research, and so with that was starting

2103
01:52:42,720 --> 01:52:46,760
Speaker 3: a lab to do different different projects. And so, you know,

2104
01:52:46,960 --> 01:52:51,520
Speaker 3: we do everything from scorpions Arizona bark scorpions to cockroaches

2105
01:52:51,600 --> 01:52:53,760
Speaker 3: to you know, we'll probably do some kissing bug work.

2106
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:56,040
Speaker 3: We do a lot of house fly stuff. We're doing

2107
01:52:56,080 --> 01:52:57,160
Speaker 3: a bunch of screm stuff as well.

2108
01:52:57,200 --> 01:52:59,360
Speaker 1: How many grad students are floating in and around.

2109
01:52:59,160 --> 01:53:01,560
Speaker 3: Your Yeah, so so currently I've only been here a

2110
01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:04,160
Speaker 3: couple of months, and so I have my first uh

2111
01:53:04,920 --> 01:53:08,040
Speaker 3: student that's going to be starting here in about a year,

2112
01:53:08,120 --> 01:53:10,840
Speaker 3: but she's an excellent undergrad. I have a technician. I

2113
01:53:10,920 --> 01:53:13,000
Speaker 3: have a couple of undergrad so it's five or six

2114
01:53:13,040 --> 01:53:16,599
Speaker 3: of us. We're kind of expanding out currently. I will

2115
01:53:16,640 --> 01:53:19,680
Speaker 3: say that that's one thing that's fascinating is running a lab.

2116
01:53:19,680 --> 01:53:22,760
Speaker 3: If anyone hasn't talked about this, it's it's more like

2117
01:53:22,840 --> 01:53:25,080
Speaker 3: a business than I ever thought, because it's finding the

2118
01:53:25,160 --> 01:53:27,400
Speaker 3: money to pay these people. It's supervising them. It's kind

2119
01:53:27,439 --> 01:53:31,000
Speaker 3: of coming up with all that stuff. And so yeah,

2120
01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:32,560
Speaker 3: and so I got I got hired to kind of

2121
01:53:32,640 --> 01:53:35,840
Speaker 3: do a lot of just cool work and then screw

2122
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:37,240
Speaker 3: Room kind of popped up and it's like, all right,

2123
01:53:37,240 --> 01:53:39,720
Speaker 3: that's where I'm gonna shift my focus at least for

2124
01:53:39,800 --> 01:53:44,000
Speaker 3: the time being. And so yeah, so Hubbard Lab dot com.

2125
01:53:45,240 --> 01:53:48,600
Speaker 3: On Instagram, it's NMSU Urban Entomology.

2126
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:51,960
Speaker 1: You put in nasty, you put up nasty disease photos

2127
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:52,200
Speaker 1: on there.

2128
01:53:52,320 --> 01:53:54,439
Speaker 3: So so we're kind of we're we're in that building

2129
01:53:54,520 --> 01:53:58,360
Speaker 3: stage currently where we're you know, I we're just gonna

2130
01:53:58,360 --> 01:53:59,840
Speaker 3: be talking about some of the projects and I but

2131
01:53:59,880 --> 01:54:02,040
Speaker 3: I think over time we probably will just kind of

2132
01:54:02,360 --> 01:54:06,439
Speaker 3: informational stuff about storm or or anything like that. And

2133
01:54:07,240 --> 01:54:09,599
Speaker 3: and so yeah, I will say though, if you're looking

2134
01:54:09,680 --> 01:54:14,600
Speaker 3: for specific information, you know, on what is directly going on.

2135
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:17,960
Speaker 3: USDA kind of updates it on on cases that are

2136
01:54:17,960 --> 01:54:20,519
Speaker 3: currently going on. They keep it up to date weekly.

2137
01:54:21,120 --> 01:54:24,919
Speaker 3: APHIS does. And so there's a number of decent resources

2138
01:54:24,920 --> 01:54:26,679
Speaker 3: that I can provide some of the links and stuff

2139
01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:29,479
Speaker 3: like that if that's something that people want. I guess

2140
01:54:29,760 --> 01:54:31,280
Speaker 3: two of the other things that I would say though,

2141
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:36,200
Speaker 3: is one the biggest thing that people can do is

2142
01:54:36,480 --> 01:54:39,840
Speaker 3: share this information, right, you know. I I've been asked like,

2143
01:54:39,960 --> 01:54:41,720
Speaker 3: all right, how can we prepare, how can we do

2144
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:44,920
Speaker 3: anything like that? Just like anything, it's getting the information

2145
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:48,839
Speaker 3: out there, because that's the that's the biggest thing, you know, South.

2146
01:54:48,680 --> 01:54:53,440
Speaker 1: Texas, correct, Southern New Mexico, southern Arizona, Presumealy, southern sorry,

2147
01:54:53,480 --> 01:54:54,200
Speaker 1: californ Yeah.

2148
01:54:54,200 --> 01:54:56,240
Speaker 3: And and so that's that's going to be one of

2149
01:54:56,280 --> 01:54:58,320
Speaker 3: these things. But it's important for everybody to know. You know,

2150
01:54:58,400 --> 01:55:01,800
Speaker 3: we we had imported cases in Maryland and a human

2151
01:55:01,920 --> 01:55:04,320
Speaker 3: you know, and so it's a uh yeah, and so

2152
01:55:04,480 --> 01:55:06,560
Speaker 3: that was that was a case. You'll you can look

2153
01:55:06,560 --> 01:55:08,960
Speaker 3: at the news headlines. It was maybe October or something

2154
01:55:09,000 --> 01:55:11,000
Speaker 3: like that. There's a guy that came back from an

2155
01:55:11,080 --> 01:55:13,680
Speaker 3: endemic country that had screw them like in his arm

2156
01:55:13,800 --> 01:55:16,840
Speaker 3: or something like that. Yes, it's great, man, but again

2157
01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:19,120
Speaker 3: it's a it's a concern, and so it's not just

2158
01:55:19,240 --> 01:55:21,720
Speaker 3: something that we should be focused in in southern New

2159
01:55:21,760 --> 01:55:25,360
Speaker 3: Mexico or or South Texas. And so getting that information

2160
01:55:25,440 --> 01:55:30,840
Speaker 3: out there hit the Florida keys, yeah and and again yeah,

2161
01:55:30,960 --> 01:55:34,440
Speaker 3: and and there may be I heard some rumbling that

2162
01:55:34,760 --> 01:55:38,480
Speaker 3: they actually figured it out. I from what I knew,

2163
01:55:39,640 --> 01:55:41,640
Speaker 3: they had never figured out exactly where it came from

2164
01:55:41,760 --> 01:55:44,280
Speaker 3: or how the incursion occurred, because it is it's kind

2165
01:55:44,320 --> 01:55:46,440
Speaker 3: of strange, just like popped up in the Florida Keys

2166
01:55:46,640 --> 01:55:49,000
Speaker 3: and then we didn't see it anywhere else. But it's

2167
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:52,360
Speaker 3: just one of these things of getting out there, you know, talking.

2168
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:54,640
Speaker 3: You know, we all elected a bunch of people, right,

2169
01:55:54,680 --> 01:55:56,480
Speaker 3: you know, and you know it's great you you had

2170
01:55:56,520 --> 01:55:59,960
Speaker 3: our senator in a couple of weeks ago, and I

2171
01:56:00,560 --> 01:56:03,040
Speaker 3: really enjoyed kind of listening to his philosophy when it

2172
01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:05,880
Speaker 3: comes to, you know, the outdoors and conservation and everything

2173
01:56:05,960 --> 01:56:08,200
Speaker 3: like that. But I think that it's important to communicate

2174
01:56:08,320 --> 01:56:11,720
Speaker 3: with our elected officials and tell them, hey, this isn't

2175
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:15,880
Speaker 3: something that is just a concern for this group of people,

2176
01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:17,640
Speaker 3: or it's out of sight, it's out of mind because

2177
01:56:17,640 --> 01:56:21,240
Speaker 3: it's down in Mexico, you know. We you know, there's

2178
01:56:21,480 --> 01:56:24,400
Speaker 3: a saying that like parasites don't have borders, right, like

2179
01:56:24,680 --> 01:56:28,960
Speaker 3: they're just gonna hop right across, and so we need

2180
01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:31,000
Speaker 3: to be able to do that. And so communicating with

2181
01:56:31,080 --> 01:56:34,280
Speaker 3: your elected officials, even if it's not finding funding to

2182
01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:37,920
Speaker 3: fund some of the research or anything else like that.

2183
01:56:38,120 --> 01:56:40,320
Speaker 3: It's just saying, hey, this is something that's important to

2184
01:56:40,400 --> 01:56:44,400
Speaker 3: me or could be important. Yeah, And so I think

2185
01:56:44,440 --> 01:56:47,440
Speaker 3: that that's kind of the the big takeaways on finding

2186
01:56:47,480 --> 01:56:52,840
Speaker 3: information communicating that kind of overall. I guess two other

2187
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:54,360
Speaker 3: things I guess I would say is, you know, if

2188
01:56:54,400 --> 01:56:59,080
Speaker 3: you want to support kind of our ongoing work, you can.

2189
01:56:59,560 --> 01:57:02,760
Speaker 3: You can donate on my website to kind of our efforts.

2190
01:57:02,880 --> 01:57:04,960
Speaker 3: If it's urban entomology, if it's screw worm, if it's

2191
01:57:04,960 --> 01:57:08,960
Speaker 3: anything like that, or there's just you know, there's it

2192
01:57:09,040 --> 01:57:10,480
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be me, there are lots of other

2193
01:57:10,520 --> 01:57:11,720
Speaker 3: people that are trying to do.

2194
01:57:12,840 --> 01:57:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2195
01:57:14,240 --> 01:57:16,960
Speaker 3: What it comes down to is, you know we're trying

2196
01:57:17,080 --> 01:57:19,720
Speaker 3: to especially in New Mexico, I will say, is that

2197
01:57:20,040 --> 01:57:24,160
Speaker 3: we're kind of you know, grassroots effort on trying to

2198
01:57:24,520 --> 01:57:27,480
Speaker 3: get out communicate. We don't have the backing like a

2199
01:57:27,520 --> 01:57:30,240
Speaker 3: state like Texas does. And that's something for me is

2200
01:57:30,320 --> 01:57:32,320
Speaker 3: that I don't want New Mexico to be left behind.

2201
01:57:33,160 --> 01:57:37,200
Speaker 3: And it in a lot of ways is just kind

2202
01:57:37,240 --> 01:57:40,520
Speaker 3: of like that that ug least sub child, right, And

2203
01:57:40,960 --> 01:57:43,080
Speaker 3: so I want to be able to advocate for the

2204
01:57:43,160 --> 01:57:45,960
Speaker 3: state and be able to put out as much good

2205
01:57:46,000 --> 01:57:48,920
Speaker 3: information and as much good research as any of the

2206
01:57:49,000 --> 01:57:53,360
Speaker 3: other you know, well funded and kind of backed states,

2207
01:57:53,520 --> 01:57:57,440
Speaker 3: you know, Texas and California. And so that's why I'm

2208
01:57:57,440 --> 01:58:00,560
Speaker 3: out spending my time communicating this because it's it's something

2209
01:58:00,640 --> 01:58:03,800
Speaker 3: that I may not be from New Mexico, but I

2210
01:58:04,080 --> 01:58:06,480
Speaker 3: call myself a New Mexican at this point. And so yes,

2211
01:58:06,560 --> 01:58:09,200
Speaker 3: I recognized I started the podcast by talking about, you know,

2212
01:58:09,640 --> 01:58:11,480
Speaker 3: New Mexico not being grated a lot of things. But

2213
01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:15,120
Speaker 3: my whole goal is to make sure that we we

2214
01:58:15,200 --> 01:58:18,560
Speaker 3: are prepared as we possibly can. And then the last

2215
01:58:18,560 --> 01:58:19,840
Speaker 3: thing is is that I do want to hear from

2216
01:58:19,880 --> 01:58:24,320
Speaker 3: people on their what their knowledge of screw them, how

2217
01:58:24,360 --> 01:58:28,280
Speaker 3: concerned they are. Because one thing that we want to

2218
01:58:28,360 --> 01:58:32,120
Speaker 3: be able to do is develop educational material, and you know,

2219
01:58:32,480 --> 01:58:35,560
Speaker 3: material that will resonate with people, if it's producers, if

2220
01:58:35,560 --> 01:58:38,160
Speaker 3: it's hunters, if it's the general public. And we can't

2221
01:58:38,160 --> 01:58:41,040
Speaker 3: get that without feedback and so get early detection exactly,

2222
01:58:41,320 --> 01:58:42,680
Speaker 3: and because that's going to be that that's going to

2223
01:58:42,720 --> 01:58:44,480
Speaker 3: be the biggest thing is to buy in, right, we

2224
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:47,840
Speaker 3: need to get people to buy in. And if it's cattle, producers. Well,

2225
01:58:47,880 --> 01:58:50,160
Speaker 3: we need to get cattle producers to report it. Cattle

2226
01:58:50,200 --> 01:58:52,080
Speaker 3: prices are super high, is a cattle producer are going

2227
01:58:52,120 --> 01:58:53,560
Speaker 3: to want to say, hey, I have this thing and

2228
01:58:53,600 --> 01:58:56,560
Speaker 3: they can't move their animals, you know, And so that's

2229
01:58:56,600 --> 01:59:01,440
Speaker 3: where getting hunters involved, you know, explaining to cattle producers, hey,

2230
01:59:01,560 --> 01:59:04,880
Speaker 3: this is this. We recognize that, you know a lot

2231
01:59:04,920 --> 01:59:08,720
Speaker 3: of people have echoes of the way that the most

2232
01:59:08,800 --> 01:59:11,160
Speaker 3: recent pandemic was kind of handled. And you can have

2233
01:59:11,320 --> 01:59:14,080
Speaker 3: your own opinions on how that was handled, but that's

2234
01:59:14,200 --> 01:59:16,440
Speaker 3: not the goal here is to kind of it. It

2235
01:59:16,600 --> 01:59:19,560
Speaker 3: is to control it and then let's get back to normal.

2236
01:59:19,720 --> 01:59:23,760
Speaker 3: And there's a lot of I think learning that can

2237
01:59:23,840 --> 01:59:26,800
Speaker 3: be taken from how we handled COVID. And I know

2238
01:59:26,920 --> 01:59:29,160
Speaker 3: that the government is kind of taking you know, the

2239
01:59:29,200 --> 01:59:31,360
Speaker 3: government doesn't do a good job at taking opinions. But

2240
01:59:31,520 --> 01:59:34,080
Speaker 3: I will say from the meetings I've been and people

2241
01:59:34,840 --> 01:59:38,320
Speaker 3: are recognizing, hey, let's not do what we did before

2242
01:59:38,400 --> 01:59:40,200
Speaker 3: if and when it gets here, and so let's.

2243
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:43,080
Speaker 1: Listen to people exactly and a diverse set of viewpoints.

2244
01:59:43,160 --> 01:59:45,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's where it comes down to getting that

2245
01:59:45,520 --> 01:59:48,560
Speaker 3: information from people of Hey, I want to know if

2246
01:59:48,640 --> 01:59:50,560
Speaker 3: you don't care at all. You know, It's like there

2247
01:59:50,600 --> 01:59:53,320
Speaker 3: are some people that aren't concerned about CWD, right, and

2248
01:59:53,960 --> 01:59:56,680
Speaker 3: so with something like that, I want to hear from

2249
01:59:56,800 --> 01:59:59,760
Speaker 3: people and see where they're concerned. Is because if I'm

2250
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:02,520
Speaker 3: I'm employed and I paid by the taxpayers in New Mexico,

2251
02:00:02,640 --> 02:00:05,120
Speaker 3: so I am here to answer to them and to

2252
02:00:05,280 --> 02:00:07,040
Speaker 3: develop information for them.

2253
02:00:08,480 --> 02:00:14,200
Speaker 1: Overall. Yeah, Okay, Caleb Hubbard veterinarian entomologists, the first one

2254
02:00:14,240 --> 02:00:19,480
Speaker 1: we've ever had on the show. Maybe the last, maybe

2255
02:00:19,680 --> 02:00:21,560
Speaker 1: not because you did a bad jockey. Well, we're gonna

2256
02:00:21,560 --> 02:00:24,520
Speaker 1: switch to a forensic entomologist from there.

2257
02:00:24,600 --> 02:00:27,240
Speaker 3: I will say. Jeff Do is kind of a combination

2258
02:00:27,360 --> 02:00:29,879
Speaker 3: of everything. He does forensics, he does in veterinary entomology.

2259
02:00:30,800 --> 02:00:34,880
Speaker 1: So not not the last. Yeah, potentially veteran. Yeah, it's

2260
02:00:34,920 --> 02:00:36,720
Speaker 1: just we've been at it a long time. Yeah, we've

2261
02:00:36,760 --> 02:00:39,920
Speaker 1: only had one Unlos statistics man. Yeah, you know what

2262
02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:40,920
Speaker 1: I mean, what are the odds?

2263
02:00:41,040 --> 02:00:45,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know you had doctor Schmidt, you know,

2264
02:00:45,160 --> 02:00:49,280
Speaker 3: with the pain index and everything. Yeah, you had you

2265
02:00:49,320 --> 02:00:49,800
Speaker 3: had one another.

2266
02:00:50,360 --> 02:00:52,560
Speaker 1: You don't know, No one knows if we didn't talk

2267
02:00:52,560 --> 02:00:54,440
Speaker 1: about it. We also had a guest on who happens

2268
02:00:54,480 --> 02:00:57,160
Speaker 1: to be an aquatic entomologist, but he wasn't there to

2269
02:00:57,280 --> 02:00:59,920
Speaker 1: talk about that, Okay, so let me read redo it.

2270
02:01:01,120 --> 02:01:06,680
Speaker 1: Doctor Caleb Hubbard one of many entomologists you have heard

2271
02:01:06,760 --> 02:01:10,600
Speaker 1: from and we'll hear from on the Medeor podcast. Of

2272
02:01:10,720 --> 02:01:13,120
Speaker 1: that you can't so many entomologists can't keep them straight.

2273
02:01:14,080 --> 02:01:19,080
Speaker 1: From the Hubbard Entomology Lab at New Mexico State University

2274
02:01:19,600 --> 02:01:23,560
Speaker 1: and also the beautiful and lovely Doug Durrent. Thanks for

2275
02:01:23,640 --> 02:01:23,960
Speaker 1: joining me.