Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back Bob left Seth Podcast. My guest
Speaker 1: today is Darius Rutger, who has a new autobiography, Life's
Speaker 1: Too Short. Darius, how good a golfer? Are you?
Speaker 2: Okay? I mean I can play, I get around. You know,
Speaker 2: I play a lot, so I should be okay. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm like a five, so I'm okay. How often
Speaker 2: do you play a five days a week? So you
Speaker 2: play when you're on the road, you belong to a club?
Speaker 2: What's going on? I'm along to a lot of clubs,
Speaker 2: but uh, I do play a lot of the road.
Speaker 2: Is why I'm play on both of my golf because
Speaker 2: there's really nothing else to do all day. So I
Speaker 2: usually get up pretty early, player around the golf before
Speaker 2: working out, getting the rest of the day started.
Speaker 1: And do you still take lessons at this point? How
Speaker 1: do you improve your game?
Speaker 2: I do?
Speaker 3: I do?
Speaker 2: I still take lessons when, uh you know, when when
Speaker 2: things start to go a little south, I got I
Speaker 2: got a guy here, Dastviel that uh that helps me out.
Speaker 3: So uh, I do definitely still take lessons. And what
Speaker 3: kind of clubs do you use?
Speaker 2: I played p XG you know, I love them. I
Speaker 2: think they're the best clubs in the world. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: I love playing those those.
Speaker 1: And is that because you have a relationship with the
Speaker 1: company or you how did you discover that brand?
Speaker 2: Uh? I thought I played them with the first generation
Speaker 2: and I just thought they were really good. But I
Speaker 2: took a relationship with the company. But uh, I just
Speaker 2: thought they were really good. Every year they seem to
Speaker 2: get better. And and so I'll get a new set
Speaker 2: of clubs every every every now and then, and uh,
Speaker 2: you know, every time I get a new set, they're better.
Speaker 1: So you played with a lot of pro golfers. What
Speaker 1: have you learned from them about the game?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: I learned that they play a different game than we do.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's for sure, you know.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And you know, the best thing about playing with the pros,
Speaker 2: you know, everybody I've getting to play with, is they're
Speaker 2: always so willing to help you with advice and you know,
Speaker 2: let you know little little intricacies of the game that
Speaker 2: you're doing wrong that you can help and you could
Speaker 2: improve on.
Speaker 3: And uh.
Speaker 2: And so I always enjoy when I get to play
Speaker 2: with professionals, even though really they don't play the same
Speaker 2: game we play.
Speaker 3: It should have a different name.
Speaker 1: Well, I know, you know, they work the ball, they
Speaker 1: do other things. But tell me how the game is
Speaker 1: different for the professionals.
Speaker 2: I mean everything, the sound of the sound of the
Speaker 2: ball coming off the club.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: The thing that I that I'm so envious of when
Speaker 2: it comes to professional golfers is their consistency. I mean,
Speaker 2: they just hit the ball the same way almost every time,
Speaker 2: and they and and you know, it's just that's that's
Speaker 2: the worst part.
Speaker 3: Of my game.
Speaker 2: I'm not consistent enough. I should be a better golfer.
Speaker 2: But uh but I just love love watching them play.
Speaker 2: I love watching him hit the ball. And they hit
Speaker 2: it so much further than we do. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: it's not even fair.
Speaker 1: So why do you think they hit it further than
Speaker 1: the amateurs?
Speaker 2: Because they know what they're doing. They know what they're doing,
Speaker 2: and we're we're also trying to figure it out. And
Speaker 2: it golf is one of those games.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: When you get to that level, it's just they just
Speaker 2: know what to do. They know, you know how, like
Speaker 2: you say, work at the ball, left, right and all
Speaker 2: that stuff. They just know how to hit it. And
Speaker 2: even coming off the club, it sounds different than what
Speaker 2: we do. So they're just you know, they're just a
Speaker 2: different level.
Speaker 1: And as far as people, what's the difference between athletes
Speaker 1: like golfers and musicians as.
Speaker 2: Far as people, I mean, the one thing I would
Speaker 2: say with that is like, you know, people are people
Speaker 2: and they're you know, their personalities may be different, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, the way they see the world may be different,
Speaker 2: but but really, at the end of the day, you know,
Speaker 2: we're all just human And that's something I learned, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, with my success and I've learned hanging out
Speaker 2: with a lot of athletes that you know, at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, we all have problems, and we
Speaker 2: all have kids that we worry about, and we all
Speaker 2: you know, worry about our health, and we you know,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, we're all just human beings.
Speaker 1: But golf they scored differently than music. You know, there's
Speaker 1: par everybody plays in a tournament. What separates the winners
Speaker 1: from the losers? In your mind?
Speaker 2: Oh, the golf is what separation winners from the losers.
Speaker 2: I think it's short game and punting because they could
Speaker 2: all hit it. You know, they all hit they all
Speaker 2: hit the green and they all are around the green,
Speaker 2: you know, and the guys that can get up and
Speaker 2: down or will make big putts, make long putts. I mean,
Speaker 2: those are the guys that win tournaments, and those are
Speaker 2: the guys that become legends.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: You know, you think of all the greats and you
Speaker 2: could probably picture some putt that they made that that
Speaker 2: you know, that was just amazing, or some ship that
Speaker 2: they made that was just amazing.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what really separates golfers, is a
Speaker 3: short game.
Speaker 1: And then how about in terms of attitude.
Speaker 3: Oh, I think that's got a lot to do with golf.
Speaker 2: I think I think that the great players, the great
Speaker 2: players don't let bad shots get them down. And know
Speaker 2: you that they all have the attitude of you know,
Speaker 2: I got to hit the next shot. And I think
Speaker 2: that's that's something we're talking about golfer. I think that's
Speaker 2: something in life. The people who are really successful don't
Speaker 2: let the little thing, not the little things, or just
Speaker 2: don't let a setback get them down.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like like if me and music, you know,
Speaker 2: if there's a setback, if you know, one single didn't
Speaker 2: do well, well, you know, we go to the next thing.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It's it's just I think really successful people have a
Speaker 2: way of not letting things get them down and realizing,
Speaker 2: you know, Okay, we got to move on to the
Speaker 2: next thing and or move on to the next shot
Speaker 2: and do that better.
Speaker 1: And if all the courses you played, if you could
Speaker 1: just play one or two, what courses would they be?
Speaker 2: Oh, if I could just play one or two Dustin National,
Speaker 2: for sure, you know, I just think that's every time
Speaker 2: I've been blessed to play there. It's just there's really
Speaker 2: nothing like it. It's just every time I and I've
Speaker 2: gotten to play quite a few times, and every time
Speaker 2: I go through that kid, I can't believe if I'm
Speaker 2: getting to play Augusta, I can't believe I'm on the
Speaker 2: grounds of Augusta National.
Speaker 3: And probably the.
Speaker 2: Other one, you know, either either Bulls Bay, which my
Speaker 2: local course, or Scottsdale National, which I think is is
Speaker 2: probably my favorite place to go play that I get
Speaker 2: to play a lot.
Speaker 1: Okay, Augustin National where they play the Masters. For a
Speaker 1: long time, they kept black people out. So when you
Speaker 1: play there, can you feel that or what do you
Speaker 1: think about that?
Speaker 3: Oh? No, I think They've come a long way with that,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, in the sixties and seventies, you know,
Speaker 2: they kept black black even out you didn't complain to the tournament.
Speaker 2: You know. You think about you know, Lee Elder getting
Speaker 2: being the first black to play, and Augusta and all
Speaker 2: the stuff he had to put up with just to
Speaker 2: go play a golf tournament, you know, And I think
Speaker 2: I think Augusta's come a long way with that, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, I I look at it, and we can't
Speaker 2: just put it on Augusta.
Speaker 3: It was the history of America. You know.
Speaker 2: Black people were kept out of a lot of things
Speaker 2: just because of the color of our skin. And you know,
Speaker 2: you know, we just you try to overcome that. And
Speaker 2: you old people in the here, twenty twenty four year
Speaker 2: old people, you know, can get past that. Don't even
Speaker 2: get past that, just like it doesn't matter, you know.
Speaker 2: It's you know, like I said earlier, at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, we're all just human beings. And you
Speaker 2: hope people really realize that.
Speaker 1: The fact that Kamala Harris is running and she's black,
Speaker 1: as a black man, how do you view that.
Speaker 2: I think it's great, you know, I thought it was
Speaker 2: great when Obama became president. You know, I'll be honest
Speaker 2: with you. When Obama became president, I was shocked. I
Speaker 2: just never thought I would see that in my lifetime.
Speaker 2: I just really, you know, back sixteen years ago, however
Speaker 2: long it's been since it was when he was when
Speaker 2: he was first elected, I truly never thought I would
Speaker 2: see an African American president in my lifetime. And now
Speaker 2: to see an African American woman get the nomination from
Speaker 2: one of the major parties, I think it's amazing.
Speaker 3: I think it's a I think it's great for the country.
Speaker 2: Even though, just like everything else with the race is
Speaker 2: going to polarize a lot of us, and you know,
Speaker 2: separate is going to divide a lot of people.
Speaker 3: But I think it's a great thing for the country.
Speaker 1: And how have you seen race relations and opportunities change
Speaker 1: in your lifetime?
Speaker 3: Oh goodness, you know, I think we've all seen it.
Speaker 2: You know, Like we're sitting, you know, and I see
Speaker 2: there talking about you know, black folks not being able
Speaker 2: to play our stuff. I remember that, you know, you know,
Speaker 2: me coming into Country of Music and being told that that,
Speaker 2: you know, the audience would never accept an African American,
Speaker 2: you know, country starm you know, that was there were
Speaker 2: just places, you know, places we weren't supposed to go,
Speaker 2: where we couldn't go, or we were just kept out of,
Speaker 2: you know. And a lot of those doors and walls
Speaker 2: have been broken down, you know, and sometimes you know,
Speaker 2: we still see people try to put it back up,
Speaker 2: and that's sad, you know. But but I think most
Speaker 2: of America realizes that there's room for all of us everywhere.
Speaker 1: And there's been a big push back against the EI recently,
Speaker 1: and certainly an affirmative action. What's your viewpoint on DEI
Speaker 1: an affirmative action.
Speaker 2: I think, I know it's it's sad for me the
Speaker 2: pushes back on it, and to watch people act like
Speaker 2: it's a bad thing, that's the thing. That's the thing
Speaker 2: that really bothers me, is people acting like diversity, equity,
Speaker 2: and inclusion is a bad thing.
Speaker 3: You know. Uh, you know. It's the funny thing about
Speaker 3: the EI.
Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned the EI or affirmative action, and
Speaker 2: everybody thinks about African Americans, you know, but you're probably
Speaker 2: the people that have been most h I saw that
Speaker 2: the other the group that's been most that that had
Speaker 2: the most affected by the eis white women, you know,
Speaker 2: white women getting a chance to do things that they
Speaker 2: didn't get a chance to do. But and you know,
Speaker 2: I think, you know, inclusion and diversity is always good.
Speaker 2: You know. It's like I always say about country music,
Speaker 2: I'm glad to see country music starting to look more
Speaker 2: like America because you know that America is a belting
Speaker 2: pot of people, and so, you know, I think all
Speaker 2: industries and all things should be.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're a star, you travel around the world. What
Speaker 1: do people in America, white people not understand about being
Speaker 1: a black person in America today?
Speaker 3: Oh goodness, I think I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of people really realize, you know,
Speaker 2: how people try to keep how how much to people
Speaker 2: try to people try to kept out of different things.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: That's why you have a formative action in de Ei. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's because we were for so long we were kept out.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people don't really realize
Speaker 2: how hard you're how hard you have to work to
Speaker 2: to to get in at some industries, to douce some things,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, I always said everything I've done
Speaker 2: in my career, I've realized I've had to work harder
Speaker 2: than everybody else, and I'd have to, you know, be
Speaker 2: a little bit better than everybody else to get a chance.
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of people don't want to
Speaker 3: face that.
Speaker 1: Now that you've had a lot of success in the
Speaker 1: country world, do you believe you still have to fight harder?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I do. I believe that one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: you know, because I know I do. You know it's
Speaker 2: even today to get a single, you know, I gotta
Speaker 2: still work harder than everybody else. And I don't mind.
Speaker 2: You know, our work has never been something that I've
Speaker 2: I've showne away from I'm a bit afraid of. But
Speaker 2: but uh, you know, yeah, I think I'll always feel
Speaker 2: that way.
Speaker 1: And just to be a little more specific, in what
Speaker 1: ways do you work harder on a single?
Speaker 2: You know? You know, playing yeah, you know, having to
Speaker 2: play more radio shows, having to to you know, do
Speaker 2: a little but harder work. And you know, watch my finger,
Speaker 2: My singles move flower than other folks singles, even though
Speaker 2: you know it might be a better song. But uh,
Speaker 2: you know that that's just part of the deal. I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna sit there complained about it, you know, because
Speaker 2: it is what it is. I'm just gonna you know,
Speaker 2: I just I'll work because I don't mind working. But uh, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think it's as easy for me
Speaker 2: as it is for some people.
Speaker 1: And to what degree do you encounter racism in everyday life? Uh,
Speaker 1: it's not as bad as it used to be.
Speaker 2: You know, there was a time when, you know, especially
Speaker 2: like when we were playing clubs back in the day,
Speaker 2: it was a time where you really did encounter it
Speaker 2: every day, you know. But it's still there, you know, so,
Speaker 2: I mean it will always be there. I don't I
Speaker 2: think in my lifetime it will always be there in America,
Speaker 2: which is sad, but uh, that's just one of those
Speaker 2: things that that comes with the territory, you know, when
Speaker 2: you when you do something that when you're in African
Speaker 2: American and you do something that you're not supposed to do,
Speaker 2: quote unquote, yeah, you got to deal with the consequences.
Speaker 3: And sometimes that's the consequences.
Speaker 1: And what happens if you're in an environment and someone
Speaker 1: makes a racist comment, what do you do?
Speaker 2: You know, if it's somebody around me, you I'll address it. Well,
Speaker 2: I'll address it, you know. If it's you know, sometimes
Speaker 2: you just let it go. I mean, why why deal
Speaker 2: with ignorance. You know, there's nothing I want to say
Speaker 2: that's going to change that person's mind.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I like to change people's hearts, and you know, you
Speaker 2: can only do that when you're friends with somebody. Oh
Speaker 2: and you know you're you're you have a relationship with somebody.
Speaker 4: But uh, you know, you just deal with now with athletes,
Speaker 4: people are always saying that black men who have success
Speaker 4: have a responsibility to lift others up.
Speaker 1: Do you feel that in country music that you have
Speaker 1: an obligation or you want to lift other black men
Speaker 1: or women up in the world.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if I have an obligation,
Speaker 2: but I feel like something I want to do, you know,
Speaker 2: So every you know, every every African record, I'll cut
Speaker 2: your artists.
Speaker 3: I mean I let them know. You know, you want
Speaker 3: to write with me, you want me any record, I'll.
Speaker 2: Do anything I can't help you, you know, just just.
Speaker 3: To give you a chance.
Speaker 2: But uh, you know, I don't think anybody's obligated to
Speaker 2: do anything. You know, people do what they want to
Speaker 2: do and what they what's inside of them. But for me,
Speaker 2: I just feel like it's the right thing to do,
Speaker 2: that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Just to be very specific, you know, and this has
Speaker 1: been a topic that's been hashed over a lot. But
Speaker 1: since we're on this point, someone like Morgan Wallen uses
Speaker 1: the N word, which is inexcusable, But what would you
Speaker 1: say as a black man where it's just rawly bad,
Speaker 1: he should be canceled. On the other extreme, he is
Speaker 1: someone who's not sophisticated, who's listened to a lot of
Speaker 1: rap records, Jen was inebriated. What's your viewpoint on that?
Speaker 2: You know, among as well as cats. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: part of trying to change his heart. You know, I think, uh,
Speaker 2: you know this this there's both that. You know, it's
Speaker 2: both ways. You know, those guys do listen a lot
Speaker 2: of rap records and you know they hear the word
Speaker 2: and he's drunk, and you know he wasn't using it
Speaker 2: in an adult derogatory way, but he shouldn't.
Speaker 3: Have been using it at all, right, And you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's it's a situation where you know, you know, you
Speaker 2: try to change somebody, like you try to change his heart.
Speaker 2: You try to and and try to make it, you know,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure he does. You see why you can't
Speaker 2: say that that's just not you know, it's not for
Speaker 2: you to say. You know, I wish no one would
Speaker 2: say it. You know, I never used it. I don't
Speaker 2: use the word. I wish no one would use it,
Speaker 2: you know. And I understand the reappropriation, and you know,
Speaker 2: using it the way we're doing rap is just taking
Speaker 2: it back. But it's like, you know, it's just one
Speaker 2: of those words that really doesn't need to exist in
Speaker 2: the English language.
Speaker 1: And if you've actually spoken to Morgan Wing about.
Speaker 2: This, yeah, I have you know, I mean, I have,
Speaker 2: you know, and Morgan's trying to do better. Morgan Morgan
Speaker 2: is he gets it, and he's trying to do better.
Speaker 2: And you know, you know, I mean, I don't want
Speaker 2: to say this is what it is, but you know,
Speaker 2: he's either gonna, you know, when you're in that situation,
Speaker 2: you're either gonna look at it and know God was
Speaker 2: wrong and I'm gonna do better, or you know, he's
Speaker 2: just gonna be who you are.
Speaker 3: And I think he's trying to do better.
Speaker 1: Now, there's an impression in Nashville and country music that
Speaker 1: everybody knows everybody. Is that true?
Speaker 3: Absolutely everybody knows everybody. And what accounts for that, I
Speaker 3: don't know. You just see folks. You see folks, you
Speaker 3: see folks on the war shows or just hanging out somewhere,
Speaker 3: or you know everybody.
Speaker 2: You met everybody and you either become friends with them
Speaker 2: or your acquaintance acquaintances with them. But you know, you
Speaker 2: know them, You've met them un in their face, they
Speaker 2: know you. And because it's it's naturally such a you know,
Speaker 2: most music doesn't have a home. Most music doesn't have
Speaker 2: a place where everybody is. You know, rock and roll
Speaker 2: was everywhere New York, La Atlanta is everywhere. Hip hop
Speaker 2: is new you know, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, you know, but uh,
Speaker 2: country music's in Nashville, and that's where everybody is.
Speaker 3: So yeah, everybody knows everybody.
Speaker 1: What the people who are not fans of country music
Speaker 1: and a lot of people talk shit about country music.
Speaker 1: What do they not understand about today's country music? Oh,
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people say they don't like
Speaker 2: country music because they haven't really listened to it. You know,
Speaker 2: there's there's a lot of I believe music's music, and
Speaker 2: there's a lot of there's a great song in every
Speaker 2: genre of music, you know, even you know, the baroque vocals,
Speaker 2: chants and all that stuff. Is you can find a
Speaker 2: good song, and I think it's one of those things
Speaker 2: they don't want to give a lot of folks, especially
Speaker 2: you know, especially African American folks, don't want to give
Speaker 2: it a chance. Don't want to give it a chance
Speaker 2: because of the stigma of what is you know, what
Speaker 2: are representative?
Speaker 3: You know what?
Speaker 2: What what people thought of it for so many years?
Speaker 2: You know, and that like when I came in one
Speaker 2: one of the one of the best things about it was,
Speaker 2: you know, getting letters or d ms from African Americans saying,
Speaker 2: you know, man, I can you know I've always loved
Speaker 2: country music. Now I can tell everybody else I love
Speaker 2: it because you're you're doing you know that that was
Speaker 2: pretty cool.
Speaker 1: And let's say you're going to write a song for
Speaker 1: Hoody and the Blowfish where a country saw for your
Speaker 1: solo career, do you approach them differently?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally differently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, uh, you know, you know, even though
Speaker 2: who do we wrote a bunch of story songs. But
Speaker 2: when you're writing, when you're writing country music, you know,
Speaker 2: you're trying to make a three and a half many movie.
Speaker 2: You're trying to the story every time, and you know,
Speaker 2: who do you We're just we're trying to write rock songs, man,
Speaker 2: you know, we're trying to write yeah, rock songs that
Speaker 2: are just you know, sometimes you you don't even have
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's really not about much of anything. It's just
Speaker 2: about it's just us all the country. Which country songs
Speaker 2: are always about something?
Speaker 1: And what country acts are you with?
Speaker 3: Fan enough?
Speaker 2: Oh goodness?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: You know, I love Chapel Heart, I love I love
Speaker 2: Luke Bryan, I love so many ladies great. Uh, Dirk Brentley,
Speaker 2: rad Haisley, I love Kane Brown's just amazing.
Speaker 3: Luke Holmes is amazing.
Speaker 2: Uh, there's a whole there's a bunch of new there's
Speaker 2: new kids that I found on the internet. I think
Speaker 2: his name is Javonne Newman. I just think he's amazing,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's great to see that, to see,
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of different artists coming up and
Speaker 2: a lot of people doing stuff, and you know, I
Speaker 2: sit don't listen to him.
Speaker 1: Well do you think I mean? Historically, I country hit
Speaker 1: music has been a controlled market on many levels, certainly
Speaker 1: in terms of exhibition terrestrial radio. Do you believe that
Speaker 1: has changed during your decade plus in country music.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it hasn't changed country music or pop music.
Speaker 2: You know. It's all I wouldn't say formally, that's not
Speaker 2: the word I want to use. It's just, you know,
Speaker 2: it's a.
Speaker 3: It's it's a niche.
Speaker 2: You know. You have to write verse course, and your
Speaker 2: course has to be big of course, has to be great,
Speaker 2: you know, and if you're going to put a bridge in,
Speaker 2: that's got to say something, you know.
Speaker 3: And and you know, I think writing.
Speaker 2: Songs is is. I mean, there's a formula for writing songs.
Speaker 2: Even if you're just writing, you know, a song that's
Speaker 2: not a hit, there's a formula writing it.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Even even Dylan wrote verse course, verse course, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think that's just the way songs are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you go back to the Beatles, there's
Speaker 1: verse chorus bridge. Sometimes they start with a chorus. And
Speaker 1: you listen to a lot of the Spotify Top fifty,
Speaker 1: it's like they lost the formula.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And but that's that's music. It just
Speaker 2: you know, it just fluctuates and the changes and it
Speaker 2: goes back to what was before and then you know,
Speaker 2: every now and then something new comes brand new, comes
Speaker 2: out and changes it and then that's just the greatness
Speaker 2: of music. It's just gonna It's like a it's like
Speaker 2: a tide. It's going to come in and go out
Speaker 2: and just keep changing. And I love that about it.
Speaker 2: And are you a hip hop fan? Love it? You know?
Speaker 2: Love it? You know, I can't. I couldn't believe how
Speaker 2: much I loved that. Uh, the Kendrick Lamar Drake feud.
Speaker 2: I just thought it was great.
Speaker 1: Thought are you well you know this is sort of
Speaker 1: a dumb question. Last are you on Kendrick Steam or
Speaker 1: Drake's team?
Speaker 2: I want to I want both teams because they were
Speaker 2: both on bangers. So that was what that was what
Speaker 2: I loved about it is they were both putting out,
Speaker 2: you know, great songs out of this. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think Kendrick won that. You know, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: I think people agree with you.
Speaker 3: I think Kendrick won.
Speaker 2: That that that that that beef. But uh, they were
Speaker 2: putting out bangers and I was like, you know, I
Speaker 2: was loving it. Every time I heard there was a
Speaker 2: new song, I had to hear.
Speaker 1: What about Questlove who said he thought it was the
Speaker 1: end of hip hop?
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, he would know better than me.
Speaker 2: I will uh, I will uh, I will requiesk the
Speaker 2: question that you know, I don't think hip hop's ever
Speaker 2: gonna end. I think hip hop is here to stay forever.
Speaker 2: Just like even though you know there's no rock and
Speaker 2: roll in the radio right now, rock and roll is
Speaker 2: still never gonna go, and there's still people, there's still
Speaker 2: kids playing rock and rolls in g Rogers right now.
Speaker 2: But uh, you know, uh, like I said, I'll go,
Speaker 2: I'll let Quest handle that one. I'm just gonna keep listening.
Speaker 2: One I line, and is he a friend of yours? Yes,
Speaker 2: I like Quest a lot. I'm a big fan, and
Speaker 2: he is a friend, and he's one of the best
Speaker 2: guys I know.
Speaker 3: He's just a good dude.
Speaker 1: So how come you never made a hip hop record?
Speaker 2: Because I can't rap? That's not what you know that
Speaker 2: that's not my thing. Uh, you know, I've never really
Speaker 2: really tried. You know, of course you rap along with
Speaker 2: the songs you're like, you know, and but you know,
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not a rapper, you know, That's That's
Speaker 2: something I've never even thought about.
Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about contemporary country artists. Did you come
Speaker 1: up listening to country.
Speaker 2: I did, you know, I was a kid. For me,
Speaker 2: it was Charlie Pride, of course. But uh, you know,
Speaker 2: Kenny Rogers is my man. You know, I still know
Speaker 2: all those Kenny Rodgers, you know Coward County and and
Speaker 2: you know Ruby and and all those songs. I still
Speaker 2: I still know all the songs. They still make playlists
Speaker 2: when I'm making playlists to listen to because I think
Speaker 2: they're great. Charlie rich I loved him, you know, my
Speaker 2: grandmother loved them. You know that Blue Eye soul that
Speaker 2: you know, he was a he was a soul singer.
Speaker 2: He was an R and B singer that was singing
Speaker 2: country music.
Speaker 3: It was great.
Speaker 2: Uh. You know, then you can get a little older,
Speaker 2: and you know I discovered Dwight Yoakam and and Nancy
Speaker 2: Griffin and New grasp Re Bivle and Bradney Foster and
Speaker 2: Foster and Lloyd and you know, I discovered these these
Speaker 2: these artists that just changed the way I heard music.
Speaker 2: Those artists were just huge for me. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: I loved it for a long time.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, Kenny Rogers and a lot of the
Speaker 1: acts you're mentioning her from the seventies. How about the
Speaker 1: earlier artists, you know, whether it be Tammy Wynett, George Jones,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Were you exposed to them or so?
Speaker 2: The the one person from that era that was really
Speaker 2: I heard the place because my aunt played or was
Speaker 2: was Loretta Lynn.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Loretta Lynn was just you know, the Pill and you
Speaker 2: know the Divorce and all those songs that were great.
Speaker 2: You know. I remember my aunt played me a kiddie
Speaker 2: Well song once that just you know, blew my mind,
Speaker 2: you know, and it was really, you know, it was
Speaker 2: for me, it was music. I've never I understand that
Speaker 2: we have to put everything in a place, and we
Speaker 2: have to compartmentalize everything and put it in a genre.
Speaker 2: But for me, I say this all the time. You know,
Speaker 2: we use the same chords, the same notes in the
Speaker 2: same words, and we play music and everybody and it's
Speaker 2: just all music to me.
Speaker 1: So when do you first remember hearing music growing up?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: My first memory of music was five years old, four
Speaker 2: or five years old, listening to al Green, you know,
Speaker 2: and just discovering instantly that that's what I want to
Speaker 2: do for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: A little bit more in depth, you hear al Green.
Speaker 1: How do you decide you want to do it for
Speaker 1: the rest of your life?
Speaker 2: Oh goodness, you know, being a little five year old
Speaker 2: kid and standing in front of my mom and their
Speaker 2: friends with the salt and pepper shakers my microphone and
Speaker 2: basically singing the whole Agreen album and the feedback I
Speaker 2: would get from them and the love I would get
Speaker 2: from them.
Speaker 3: Just doing that, you know, made me go, Man, I
Speaker 3: want to do this. I won't.
Speaker 2: I want to feel this on a much bigger scale,
Speaker 2: you know, if it feels like you know, I mean
Speaker 2: as a young kid thinking it feels like this in
Speaker 2: the living room, imagine what I feel like this, you know,
Speaker 2: and the bigger plans for more people looking at you
Speaker 2: and love.
Speaker 1: Did you do a dream ever waivered? Did you ever
Speaker 1: think at some point, man, I got to give up?
Speaker 3: I did? You know?
Speaker 2: After high school? You know, when I was graduating high school,
Speaker 2: I realized not give up so much as just you know,
Speaker 2: what am I going to do? I mean, I never
Speaker 2: played in the band in high school. I say, acquired
Speaker 2: and everything, and I never had a band until college.
Speaker 2: And so it was like I went to college to
Speaker 2: get a broadcast journalism degree.
Speaker 3: You know, hopefully work on TV talking about sports or something.
Speaker 2: And it's not that I'd give it up on my dream.
Speaker 3: It's just that I realized I was gonna have to
Speaker 3: get a real, real life.
Speaker 1: Okay, that was your thought graduating from high school. How
Speaker 1: did you also believe become convinced that no, you could
Speaker 1: do it?
Speaker 2: Oh? It was my sophomore year when I met Mark
Speaker 2: Indean and we started playing in a band, you know.
Speaker 3: And you know, at first, from that first gig where Mark.
Speaker 2: And I played of ourselves at Pappy's, the local chicken
Speaker 2: one joint, you know, you start thinking, all right, man,
Speaker 2: I can do I want to do this, you know.
Speaker 3: That's what that's.
Speaker 2: Really in my mind where school became unimportant. It was
Speaker 2: in my mind where I don't know how we're gonna
Speaker 2: do this, but we're gonna figure out how. We're gonna
Speaker 2: play a lot more because I want to do this
Speaker 2: every night.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just go back. Al Green, who's from Memphis,
Speaker 1: is supposed to Nashville unbelievable talent. You know, you have
Speaker 1: Jack White and other people working with old country stars.
Speaker 1: Do you think you could help Al Green have a
Speaker 1: hit in today's country market?
Speaker 2: Oh? I don't know if I could, but I bet
Speaker 2: you know, uh, you know, one of the really big
Speaker 2: superstars could you know, you know, Luke Bryant or or
Speaker 2: Luke Combs, and one of those guys came, you know,
Speaker 2: one of those guys that probably helped them have a
Speaker 2: really huge hit.
Speaker 3: But uh, you know, I think.
Speaker 2: I'm at the that uh, that point in my career
Speaker 2: where you know, I don't even know if I get
Speaker 2: on the radio anymore.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm almost sixty. It's been an amazing run.
Speaker 2: But I think one of those guys could yeah, do it,
Speaker 2: do it with Al Green, then you do the right song.
Speaker 3: They could have a really big hit.
Speaker 1: Okay. Country music is different from rock and roll and pop.
Speaker 1: Rock and roll and pop, you usually have a window
Speaker 1: when you have your peak, whereas you know, George Straight,
Speaker 1: these other people, they have first in country. Traditionally, once
Speaker 1: you have success, your audience will support you throughout your life.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people have hits as they get older.
Speaker 1: It's always hard to climb the mountain again. But why
Speaker 1: would you not have hits in the future.
Speaker 2: I mean I think I might, you know, I could
Speaker 2: have its, It's just harder, you know, it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: like you see Garth put out a single, or you
Speaker 2: see George Straight put out a single. You know, when
Speaker 2: they were in their heyday, the single raced up the charts,
Speaker 2: you know, twenty weeks you got a number one, you know.
Speaker 2: So nowadays, you know, you know, it could take months,
Speaker 2: eight take eight months to get a record up the chart,
Speaker 2: you know. And I you know, I hope, I hope
Speaker 2: they still have I hope. Yeah, I'd love to have
Speaker 2: ten more hits, you know, But that's I don't I'm
Speaker 2: gonna stop trying. I'm gonna keep making records and putting
Speaker 2: them out and seeing what happens. But I'm a realist
Speaker 2: about life and about my career. And and you're right,
Speaker 2: I could go play shows for the rest of my
Speaker 2: life and my fans will come out and see me play.
Speaker 2: But as much as they want to say they are,
Speaker 2: the fans, aren't the people who are dictating what's a hit.
Speaker 2: It's the gatekeepers at radio and you know, the gatekeepers
Speaker 2: you know, at the at the streaming services that really
Speaker 2: they're really determined what's going to be a h.
Speaker 1: Are you working on an album now?
Speaker 2: I'm not right now, you know, I put an album
Speaker 2: out last year. I guess earlier this year, we put
Speaker 2: a record out, and and you know, I'm doing the
Speaker 2: Hoodie tour right now, but I'm gonna start writing the
Speaker 2: next record. I want to have it out next year.
Speaker 2: So I'm start writing next record real soon. And you know,
Speaker 2: I love writing music. I love making records. Okay, So
Speaker 2: what's your process? You start writing songs because you know,
Speaker 2: we have an album. Where you get inspired and write
Speaker 2: a song, how does it play out?
Speaker 3: Both?
Speaker 2: You know both? You know, I might get off the
Speaker 2: phone with you, I might get off the zoom with
Speaker 2: you right now and feel like I write a song
Speaker 2: sitting here right one.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: But when you're making a record, I mean it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like a job. You go write songs.
Speaker 2: You know, you get your buddies and you write songs.
Speaker 2: You sit around, you know, Okay, I'm gonna write a
Speaker 2: song today. And because you're trying to get you know,
Speaker 2: for every I've never written less than fifty songs for
Speaker 2: any record I've made some country music, you know, you
Speaker 2: write fifty or sixty and then you pick thirteen, and
Speaker 2: so you just start writing. And then when you think
Speaker 2: you got enough, songs, you really start listening to them
Speaker 2: and decide what you're gonna put on the record.
Speaker 1: Well, on some of your solo albums in the country world,
Speaker 1: you didn't write most of the material.
Speaker 2: I think there's a couple of records that, uh I
Speaker 2: might have had two or three songs I didn't write
Speaker 2: on them, and or at least co wrote on them.
Speaker 2: But you know, in country music, when you hear a song,
Speaker 2: when somebody say to you a song, because that it's
Speaker 2: you know, it's a it's an occupation in Nashville.
Speaker 3: Songwriter, you know, that's what you do your song right.
Speaker 2: You know Ashley Gorley, you know is you know, feelthy
Speaker 2: rich because he's written so many number one songs. And
Speaker 2: you know when when him or or or you know,
Speaker 2: one of the other guys sends you a song, it
Speaker 2: just clicks. You go, Okay, I'm cutting that because yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm a songwriter, but I'm an artist. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: an artist. I want to sing great songs. So do
Speaker 2: people send you songs on a regular basis?
Speaker 3: All the time? All the time? Party sent me a
Speaker 3: song about six weeks ago. All the time?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how do you separate? You know, they hit
Speaker 1: from the ship. It's like, you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: people send you unsolicited stuff that would be not worth cutting,
Speaker 1: not worth listening to. Does it never even get to
Speaker 1: you because you have a filter or what do you know?
Speaker 2: You know, that's the one that goes back to what
Speaker 2: we were talking about, how everybody knows everybody in Nashville.
Speaker 2: You know that, you know, it doesn't go to anybody else.
Speaker 2: They send it to you, They texted to you, you know.
Speaker 2: And for me, I don't know what's the hit, but
Speaker 2: I know what I like, and that's how I judge it.
Speaker 2: If I like it or I love it like a song,
Speaker 2: Like if I told you you know, but that song
Speaker 2: came in, I had to cut it. I loved it.
Speaker 2: I wish I'd written it, you know. I you know,
Speaker 2: I was talking to one of the writers once and
Speaker 2: I said, how could you write my life without me
Speaker 2: being in the room?
Speaker 3: And you know, I have to cut that song. But
Speaker 3: that's for me, that's all I decide.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what's a hit, but I
Speaker 2: know what I like.
Speaker 1: How often are they pitching you a song and they're
Speaker 1: also pitching it to somebody else.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I really don't know, but you know,
Speaker 2: I'll be awesome. There has been songs that have come
Speaker 2: to me that I turned down that you know, I
Speaker 2: hear on the radio, you know, and you know that's
Speaker 2: that's cool. They And the thing is, I don't know
Speaker 2: how many. I'm sure it happens. I'm sure it happens
Speaker 2: all the time. But those guys want somebody to cut
Speaker 2: their song. But I'm not mad at them. You know,
Speaker 2: if I was just if I was a song writer
Speaker 2: not an artist, I'd be doing the same thing.
Speaker 1: But if you commit to a song, they commit. They
Speaker 1: won't pitch it to anybody else.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, If somebody sends me a song and I text
Speaker 2: them go, I'm gonna cut this, they won't sign it
Speaker 2: somebody else. And if they have said it to somebody else,
Speaker 2: they'll text us go, hey, Darius's gotten this.
Speaker 1: Okay. Have you ever heard one of these songs that
Speaker 1: was pitched to you that you didn't cut and you
Speaker 1: later hear the finished record, You go and I do
Speaker 1: like that that was a hit. I missed that.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, you know, but I don't. I don't ever
Speaker 2: said I missed it because usually there was a song guys.
Speaker 2: So when I hear a song I use. I like it,
Speaker 2: and I think I get but I just go I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna cut it. You know, I like it,
Speaker 2: but it's not for me. So when you're here with
Speaker 2: somebody else, you go, yeah, that sounds great, that's a hit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a hit for them. But I still wouldn't
Speaker 3: cut it.
Speaker 1: And how about co writing? How do you approach that?
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: I love it, And and the crazy thing is I
Speaker 2: never started co writing until like they in the Nashville,
Speaker 2: like all the hoody stuff, we never wrote together.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: We all just wrote songs that brought him into the group.
Speaker 2: Or or you know one of those guys that write
Speaker 2: some music and they're bringing it and give it to
Speaker 2: me and say, write some words to the song. And
Speaker 2: So I love co writing because the thing I love
Speaker 2: the most about co writing is you'll be sitting in
Speaker 2: the room and you'll come up well lined and you'll
Speaker 2: love that line and you'll sing it to somebody that
Speaker 2: you're co writer, and they'll sing it back to you.
Speaker 2: But one note will be different or who knows to
Speaker 2: be different, and one they'll they'll change a word here,
Speaker 2: and you realize, oh, that's so much better because for me,
Speaker 2: you know, I sing the way I sing, and when
Speaker 2: I hear somebody else sing something back to me and
Speaker 2: it's a little different. You know, I want to sing
Speaker 2: that like that because I love the way that sounds.
Speaker 2: And you know it's it's not me being me, it's
Speaker 2: me singing a song.
Speaker 1: Okay. I mean people were writers, weren't even performers. You know,
Speaker 1: five days a week, they'll meet with people to write
Speaker 1: other songs. Do you just get together with people when
Speaker 1: you know you're working up material for an album? What
Speaker 1: would make you have a writing session?
Speaker 2: Uh? Just you know, either it happens sometimes when people
Speaker 2: just call and you know, you see somebody who let's
Speaker 2: write a song, and then you text each other you'll
Speaker 2: set up a session. But when I'm when I'm writing
Speaker 2: for a record, yet three sessions a day, five days
Speaker 2: a week, you know you're just going to you going
Speaker 2: you write.
Speaker 1: And when you go into the room, do you bring
Speaker 1: something or you're totally a blank slate.
Speaker 2: That happens both ways. Sometimes you got an idea that
Speaker 2: you take in and you know, I've walked in with
Speaker 2: a with a verse and the chorus. You know I've
Speaker 2: walked in with two verses and a chorus and just
Speaker 2: need a bridge, you know, And other guys will come
Speaker 2: the same way where they come with you know, versus
Speaker 2: the chorus or or or or just the chorus, and
Speaker 2: you go, all right, that's it, that's right, that one,
Speaker 2: you know, and that's always that. That's the That's the
Speaker 2: great thing about songwriting. It's it could be, it can
Speaker 2: go anyway. There's also great songs that come from you know,
Speaker 2: you're sitting around and nobody's got any ideas. Somebody says
Speaker 2: one line and somebody catches on to that, and you
Speaker 2: go and write a song.
Speaker 1: And what's the right number of people in the room?
Speaker 2: I think three is are perfect a great number three
Speaker 2: or two. I think when you get four people in
Speaker 2: a room for more, it's just too many.
Speaker 3: It's too much.
Speaker 2: And I've done it, neve written great songs that way,
Speaker 2: but it really is too much before or more?
Speaker 1: And is there how do you decide on credit?
Speaker 2: Oh, there's just if there's four people, you split four ways.
Speaker 2: Just three people used put it in three ways. There's
Speaker 2: I've never been in a room that was a discussion
Speaker 2: on percentages. That's just the way it is.
Speaker 1: And if you could write with two people, who would
Speaker 1: do those people be that.
Speaker 2: I haven't written with?
Speaker 1: No, well, let's start with that that you haven't written with.
Speaker 2: If I write with two people I haven't written with,
Speaker 2: it would probably be probably like Keith Urban and h
Speaker 2: Kelly Loveless. I've never rely saw Kelly lovelas. He's a
Speaker 2: big writer that I'd like to sit two of them
Speaker 2: and write a song.
Speaker 3: But I write.
Speaker 2: You know, if people I write with Asthley Gorley would
Speaker 2: have to be in the room.
Speaker 3: He's a He's a freaking genius. Uh uh.
Speaker 2: And Charles Kelly Lady. I love writing with him. He's
Speaker 2: because he's got a voice that I just admire so much.
Speaker 2: Or Chris Stapleton.
Speaker 1: You know, well, let's stay with Stapleton, because Stapleton was
Speaker 1: around for a better part of twenty years before he
Speaker 1: broke through, and he and his music are, if not
Speaker 1: the most revered in Nashville, close to it. But he
Speaker 1: is doing something a little bit different than everybody else.
Speaker 1: He doesn't seem to be playing to the market. It's
Speaker 1: almost more rock and roll. What's your take on Stapleton?
Speaker 1: What's the magic there?
Speaker 2: He's got that thing that all artists wants you know,
Speaker 2: he don't have to play the market. You know, Chris
Speaker 2: could put out anything that's going to be a hit.
Speaker 2: I mean, like you said, he's the standard bearer or country.
Speaker 2: He's the best singer in the business, and so he
Speaker 2: does what he wants and I love it. I'm such
Speaker 2: a big fan, you know, I love writing with him.
Speaker 2: You know, I've had number ones with him. You know,
Speaker 2: he's just He's Chris and that's all he wants to
Speaker 2: be and I love it.
Speaker 1: How about some people in the Americana world, which doesn't
Speaker 1: charge on country radio but gets a lot of respect,
Speaker 1: people like Jason Isbells the world do you pay attention to.
Speaker 3: I love Jason as well. I would write with him
Speaker 3: at Heartbeat.
Speaker 2: I think he's a you know Rihanna Gibbons, you know,
Speaker 2: I would love to write with her. You know, I
Speaker 2: think that that whole genre is is great, and you know,
Speaker 2: Jason is just a crazy great songwriter, a lot of
Speaker 2: a huge fani.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to South Carolina. You know, the
Speaker 1: country is a result of the Internet and cable television.
Speaker 1: There is no flyover country. And I certainly know growing
Speaker 1: up in the Northeast that I had a long term
Speaker 1: girlfriend from Tallahassee, which people don't realize is more Georgia
Speaker 1: than you know, South Florida. So what can you tell
Speaker 1: us about growing up in South Carolina? So it was
Speaker 1: it was a southern town, you know, but it was.
Speaker 2: It was a bastion of of of For me growing up,
Speaker 2: it was I was raised by a village. You know,
Speaker 2: we had a neighborhood that was everybody. We were all close,
Speaker 2: We were all friends, family, all the families were friends.
Speaker 2: You knew everybody in the neighborhood. You know, if you
Speaker 2: went around the corner and you know, miss Simmons had
Speaker 2: to whoop you because you did something wrong, you know,
Speaker 2: your mom didn't get up and go around and yell
Speaker 2: at miss Simmons. When you got home, you got another
Speaker 2: whooping because Miss Simmons had to whoop you, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, we were raised by everybody's parents and it
Speaker 2: was great for me. I loved it. I mean I
Speaker 2: would say I'd do my childhood to get an harpyat.
Speaker 2: And for me, you know, you experience, you know, experienced
Speaker 2: racism and stuff like that, but it just it was
Speaker 2: just what it was. I mean, it was just you.
Speaker 2: You dealt with it, and you moved on, you know,
Speaker 2: and because it was what it was, and I just
Speaker 2: grew up. We grew up with not a lot, but
Speaker 2: we had. There was so much love and so much
Speaker 2: friendship and so much camaraderie. I mean, I'm still best
Speaker 2: friends with the five guys I grew up with. You know,
Speaker 2: we still text each other every day. We have a
Speaker 2: group text where we text every day. And what are
Speaker 2: those guys up to? You know, guys are doing different.
Speaker 2: One guy's a money guy, one guy's a lawyer. One
Speaker 2: guy runs the school districts in Beaufer County, and you know,
Speaker 2: one guy works at Target. You know, you know, one
Speaker 2: guy whoves out in California as a social worker. I mean,
Speaker 2: everybody's doing their own thing and loving it.
Speaker 1: So everybody this environment in the village ended up generally
Speaker 1: speaking good stories.
Speaker 2: My friends all did Yes, my friends all ended up
Speaker 2: being good, hard working folks who who you know, I
Speaker 2: want to say God out of it, because that's just
Speaker 2: not the word. Who became great, great men who raised
Speaker 2: their families and work their jobs and try to enjoy themselves.
Speaker 1: So how does this affect how you raise your kids? Oh?
Speaker 2: You know, I like I would like to think you
Speaker 2: like his. I think I was a pretty good dad.
Speaker 2: I mean, I just I just wanted them to be
Speaker 2: happy and successful.
Speaker 1: What are they up to.
Speaker 2: I got, you know, one one daughter who lives here
Speaker 2: in Nashville who's doing really well for herself. I got
Speaker 2: a daughter just who graduated college college in Florida. I
Speaker 2: got a daughter just graduated from NYU.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I got a son that you know, went to NYU
Speaker 2: and you know now he wants to get into real estate.
Speaker 2: And they're just healthy, happy kids working their butt off,
Speaker 2: knowing that you know, their parents have their backs.
Speaker 1: And are they off the payroll?
Speaker 2: You know pretty much? You know, the younger ones probably not,
Speaker 2: you know. And uh, the one who just graduated colleges,
Speaker 2: you know, she's still kind of on it. And you know,
Speaker 2: but I'm sure just the way we live, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't ever want them to be totally off the payroll.
Speaker 2: I'm always there for them, you know. I want them
Speaker 2: to get jobs. And they are and living their lives
Speaker 2: and working hard. But you know, they need anything, I'll
Speaker 2: always be here.
Speaker 1: What if they call for money? What would you say
Speaker 1: no to?
Speaker 2: Oh? If they wanted to my house I wanted my
Speaker 2: car and say no, no, like you know, you go
Speaker 2: work for that. But uh, you know, you know I'm
Speaker 2: a good dad. I'm a generous dad. But uh, you know,
Speaker 2: I would never imagine cutting my kids off or saying
Speaker 2: I'm not going to give you anything, because that's just
Speaker 2: not who I am.
Speaker 1: Well, needless to say, you've created quite an asset base.
Speaker 1: When you do pass, which hopefully won't be for thirty
Speaker 1: odd years, what do you plan to do with the money?
Speaker 2: Give it to them, and I'm sure I'll leave some
Speaker 2: to the some charities I love, But you know, I
Speaker 2: want my kids to enjoy the benefits of my hard work.
Speaker 1: So let's go back to South Carolina growing up. What
Speaker 1: kind of kid we like? In school?
Speaker 2: I was a good I was a good student, you know,
Speaker 2: didn't get in trouble at school very often. Until high school.
Speaker 2: I was an athlete. And then in high school I
Speaker 2: became music became you know, the choir and the choruses
Speaker 2: and a small the small group were my life, you
Speaker 2: know that going to rehearsals and we we had a
Speaker 2: show choir. That was that was a lot of work,
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of after school rehearsals.
Speaker 3: And stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Well, some people might have not been exposed to show choir,
Speaker 1: So tell us about show choirs.
Speaker 2: Choirs. Uh, you know, it's it's it's a big it's
Speaker 2: not you. When you take a choir, you think of church,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't that. It was choirs that got together
Speaker 2: and you know, you sang contemporary songs or during Christmas
Speaker 2: you sang all the Christmas stuff and you know there
Speaker 2: was some dancing to it, and there was some uh
Speaker 2: some uh you know, little choreography and a little but
Speaker 2: it was you know, at my school, the Middleston singers
Speaker 2: were a big deal, you know, and you had to
Speaker 2: try out. Not everybody made it. Probably less than a
Speaker 2: halfter people that tried out made it. And so it
Speaker 2: was a big deal. And and so choir was fun.
Speaker 2: It was you know, twenty girls and twenty guys that
Speaker 2: all could say and would go out there and try
Speaker 2: to be great.
Speaker 1: So it's in your book for those people don't know.
Speaker 1: You graduate from high school and then what do you do.
Speaker 3: I went to the University of South Carolina and majors
Speaker 3: in broadcast journalism.
Speaker 1: And what was that experience like? At first?
Speaker 2: It was tough, you know, I had gone from this
Speaker 2: high school. I think my graduating class had three hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty people or something. You know, I was I
Speaker 2: was a senior class vice president.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I went from the school where and I was in
Speaker 2: every clique. I was in the jocks click, I was
Speaker 2: in the you know, the stoner's click. I was in
Speaker 2: you know, the music click. I was in the big
Speaker 2: brothers and sisters. Cause I was just.
Speaker 3: I was just. I was friends with everybody.
Speaker 2: And I went from that to this university of forty
Speaker 2: thousand people, and that was a culture shock for me.
Speaker 2: It really was first semester it was a culture shop.
Speaker 2: And at first I didn't think I liked it, and
Speaker 2: then I did. Yeah, when I found my place and
Speaker 2: my friends, I did like it. And it was it
Speaker 2: was a big university. It was exactly what you're think
Speaker 2: it is. You know, college football every Saturday, and and
Speaker 2: you know, every weekend I haven't parted our butts off,
Speaker 2: and every wanting to go home to visit parents and
Speaker 2: tell Thanksgiving. You know, it was a typical southern college
Speaker 2: college experience. And you know that's something that's another thing
Speaker 2: I would do and get an RP. But you ultimately
Speaker 2: leave there right now. I stayed there the whole time
Speaker 2: I was gonna leave, And then I met a buddy
Speaker 2: of mine right before right before Christmas break, I met,
Speaker 2: I met, I knew him, but he asked me to
Speaker 2: come and have a beer with him, and we just
Speaker 2: had such a great time.
Speaker 3: I decided to stay.
Speaker 2: And yeah, Yo, that's one of those things that I,
Speaker 2: you know, I believe in fate because I looked at
Speaker 2: that moment of where I really was going to transfer,
Speaker 2: and his name was Chris Carney, and he actually he
Speaker 2: runs my life right now.
Speaker 3: But uh, he you know, beating him at not meeting him,
Speaker 3: but just talking to him.
Speaker 2: That day at at that whole meeting and staying and
Speaker 2: having so much such a great time with him, and
Speaker 2: ended up staying in South Carolina. I mean, if I'd
Speaker 2: left South Carolina, I wouldn't be talking to you that rapp.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I would have ever played in
Speaker 2: the band if I'd doing this stuff after school.
Speaker 3: So that's one of those things that makes me believe
Speaker 3: in fame.
Speaker 1: And what about finishing college.
Speaker 2: Uh, after my junior year, I had wracked up a
Speaker 2: pretty good uh student loan debt and uh didn't have
Speaker 2: really the money to go back, so I decided to
Speaker 2: take a year off and just never went back.
Speaker 1: So, you know, like Bruce Springsteen has that record where
Speaker 1: his mother says he can still go back to college.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. And the funny thing is, I
Speaker 2: think about it now because I'm such a gay Flock supporter.
Speaker 2: I think a lot that you know, take online classes
Speaker 2: and stuff and go back just to get the degree,
Speaker 2: so I could up being a graduate of the University
Speaker 2: of Carolina. But you know, like my friends have to say,
Speaker 2: I think you did all right for yourself. So I'll
Speaker 2: see it that way.
Speaker 1: What about your kids if your kids wanted to drop out.
Speaker 2: My nineteen year old has decided he did colleges enough
Speaker 2: for him, and I was fine with it. Collegism for
Speaker 2: everybody in today's world doesn't have to be you know,
Speaker 2: it was just hounded into our head back in the
Speaker 2: day that if you want a good job, you have
Speaker 2: to have a college degree.
Speaker 3: You know. I just don't believe that anymore, you know.
Speaker 2: And and you know, like I said, he was going
Speaker 2: to the NYU and to drop four hundred grand to
Speaker 2: go to the school.
Speaker 3: You know, when you don't want to go to school
Speaker 3: just if he didn't want to go. I was fine
Speaker 3: with that.
Speaker 1: Okay. So you play with your buddy out and you
Speaker 1: have this realization that whoa, I could do this. What
Speaker 1: happens next.
Speaker 2: Oh, we get another buddy and another buddy and we
Speaker 2: start playing shows, and you know, we start traveling all
Speaker 2: over the East Coast after a while.
Speaker 1: A little bit. So first of all, I'm sure you
Speaker 1: don't like it. Many people call you Hoody, But in
Speaker 1: the book it tells the story of how the band
Speaker 1: named Hoody and the Blowfish came about. Can you tell
Speaker 1: my audience that story?
Speaker 2: Oh? I was. I was actually in a show choir
Speaker 2: and that's that's South Carolina and called Carolina Alive.
Speaker 3: And we were we were ship Man.
Speaker 2: We we played inaugurations and all over the place we
Speaker 2: would play, and we were starting the band. Market and
Speaker 2: I played together for a few months and we were
Speaker 2: starting the band. We had our first gig about a
Speaker 2: week after this happened. And there was one guy that
Speaker 2: had really big guys and more round glasses like leaden
Speaker 2: and I started calling them Moodie, and everybody in the
Speaker 2: show choir started calling. And his best friend had these
Speaker 2: big cheeks and he was a trumpet player.
Speaker 3: It could blow them up.
Speaker 2: And I called him the blowfish and I just kept
Speaker 2: calling bow Fish that everybody the show choir was called
Speaker 2: the blowfish. And they walked into a party once in
Speaker 2: my room in Myrtle Beach. We were playing singing somewhere
Speaker 2: in Myrtle Beach and I was in my room and
Speaker 2: they walked in to the room and I said, hey,
Speaker 2: Hoody the bowfishes here. And I thought, my head, but
Speaker 2: Hooty the Bufish has to be the name of our band.
Speaker 2: And I went back and said Mark, although they've been
Speaker 2: Hooty the bois and he said whatever, And we've been
Speaker 2: hooting both ever since.
Speaker 1: Okay, just so I understand the timeline. While you were
Speaker 1: playing with Mark, you were also in the choir.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, we were still in college. We were living
Speaker 2: on the dorm hall and we were still in college
Speaker 2: and you know, we were just starting the band. I
Speaker 2: mean I think that was the fourth third or fourth
Speaker 2: time we ever played together when we played with the band.
Speaker 1: Okay, but the show choir was back home was associated
Speaker 1: with the school.
Speaker 3: Right, yes it was. It was at the universityth Carolina.
Speaker 3: It was called Lot.
Speaker 1: Yes, So what was it like being in the show
Speaker 1: choir in college as opposed to high Oh.
Speaker 3: The big difference was the parties. I mean all we
Speaker 3: do was party. You know.
Speaker 2: We went through these great places. We would get to
Speaker 2: go to these great places, these great cities, you know, Pittsburgh,
Speaker 2: New York, you know, go down to Miami, you know,
Speaker 2: go to Hertle Beach, go all these places and get
Speaker 2: to to get to sing, either in competitions or just
Speaker 2: and just singing. And it was it was awesome, you know.
Speaker 2: And we were great. I mean we we I look
Speaker 2: back in those days and we were great. I mean
Speaker 2: everybody in there was a world class singer. You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of people were getting scholarships.
Speaker 3: That's this thing. And it was it was it was awesome.
Speaker 2: I mean you really felt like you when you heard
Speaker 2: other folks singing in that choir, you felt like you
Speaker 2: were doing something because you were part of that.
Speaker 1: And what about the partying, the sex, the drugs, the alcohol.
Speaker 1: What when you're in college to what degree that a
Speaker 1: part of the show choir.
Speaker 2: I mean it wasn't back then the drugs learn so much,
Speaker 2: but the accident. The alcohol was prevalent. It was everywhere.
Speaker 2: It was you know, we were kids. You know, that's
Speaker 2: what we were doing. You know, that's what we were doing.
Speaker 2: We were having a party. And but you know, we
Speaker 2: were we were pros. Party didn't start till the show
Speaker 2: was though, but but yeah, we could have a party.
Speaker 1: And how long after you start playing with Mark did
Speaker 1: you stop being in the show choir?
Speaker 2: Oh? Goodness, probably a year and a half after market
Speaker 2: I started. After the band started, I stopped sitting to
Speaker 2: the show choir. And it wasn't like, you know, I
Speaker 2: just quit the show choir because the market marketing was
Speaker 2: still in school, so it's not like we could just
Speaker 2: get in the vans and go during the week or
Speaker 2: anything or and so you know, and and all the
Speaker 2: all the shows for the show choir we usually booked
Speaker 2: before the semester started, so you know, when you were
Speaker 2: at when I was going to be out of town
Speaker 2: with them, So we just planned our shows around that.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you play out with Mark, the bell goes
Speaker 1: off in your head. What's the next step?
Speaker 2: I found a drummer in the bass player and uh, Mark.
Speaker 1: Can you tell this story about the girl and the
Speaker 1: thoughts etc. That's in the book?
Speaker 2: Well? Which girl? Will Sony by the drummer. Well, you know,
Speaker 2: we our first drummer quit and uh, we were looking
Speaker 2: for drummers, and uh, like seven guys were coming to
Speaker 2: play with us one day and I saw Sony's name
Speaker 2: on the list, and I told Mark and Dean that
Speaker 2: Sony wasn't going to be our drummer because I hated him.
Speaker 2: And the reason I hated him was my freshman year
Speaker 2: in college, when I was in the show choir, I
Speaker 2: had a friend. You know, I was still in the
Speaker 2: friend zone, but I was trying not to be in
Speaker 2: the friend zone. But we were pretty tight. We hung
Speaker 2: out a lot and uh. And so she calls me
Speaker 2: up and tells me to come to her room, which
Speaker 2: was seriously on the opposite end of campus from where
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 3: And so I'm all excited. I think today's today, you know.
Speaker 2: And I get up and I walk all the way
Speaker 2: across campus, a twenty minute walk, probably twenty five minute walk,
Speaker 2: and I get to her room and she takes me
Speaker 2: out seat. She rushes me outside, and she tells me
Speaker 2: to stand on the bridge while she runs down and
Speaker 2: take a picture of her. When she got I realized
Speaker 2: when she was running down that she had written we
Speaker 2: had these sand volleyball courts, and I realized she had
Speaker 2: written in the sand I love Sony And I didn't
Speaker 2: know who the Sony guy was, but I hated him.
Speaker 2: And then later I found out, you know who he
Speaker 2: was and everything. But uh, yeah, I told him he
Speaker 2: was never gonna be our drummer. But yeah, I was wrong.
Speaker 1: So where is that girl today?
Speaker 2: Oh goodness, I haven't talked to Devin years. It's been
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you. I really haven't known it. I
Speaker 2: haven't seen her in years.
Speaker 1: Okay, you become internationally famous, does everybody you ever knew
Speaker 1: come out of the woodwork?
Speaker 2: A lot of people have. Yeah, like I like when
Speaker 2: we first got big, I saw her a couple times
Speaker 2: in a couple of shows. It was great to see her.
Speaker 2: She was She's a wonderful human being. It's a wonderful
Speaker 2: human being. And you know, it's still down. You know,
Speaker 2: I'll be playing a show in some city. A buddy
Speaker 2: of mine that I grew up with, that I haven't
Speaker 2: seen in thirty five years, you know, found me the
Speaker 2: It's social media makes it so easy. You know, found
Speaker 2: me on Instagram the other day. And you know he's
Speaker 2: coming out to his show this week and people just
Speaker 2: coming out of the woodwork and nine time is great.
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's that five percent when it was
Speaker 2: somebody who didn't like back then. You know.
Speaker 3: But uh that that's a rarity.
Speaker 1: And how about people asking for money?
Speaker 2: Uh that that's been a problem.
Speaker 3: You know, that's been something.
Speaker 1: That's the problem.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I've gotten good at saying no. I've gotten really good
Speaker 3: at saying no.
Speaker 2: I think early on it's tough for me to say
Speaker 2: no because I was doing so well, and you know,
Speaker 2: I hate to see anybody. I know how hard it
Speaker 2: must be for some people to do that. But uh,
Speaker 2: I'm really good at saying.
Speaker 1: Now, okay. Friend of mine, Steve Lucather, guitarist in Toto
Speaker 1: and other things, he says when he gives people money,
Speaker 1: just say it's a gift, because if you say it's alone,
Speaker 1: they don't pay it back. You ruin the friendship, et cetera.
Speaker 1: What's your experience been.
Speaker 3: Oh, I agree with that one.
Speaker 2: I don't say it's a gift, and they always go bad,
Speaker 2: I'm going to pay you back, and I go okay,
Speaker 2: But in my mind giving it to him, because I
Speaker 2: can honestly say, of all the times I've given money
Speaker 2: to family or friends and they said they were going
Speaker 2: to pay it back.
Speaker 3: I think maybe one person did.
Speaker 1: Okay, So now you have the band, you have four
Speaker 1: members in the band. What happens after that?
Speaker 2: We start playing, you know, and we we play from
Speaker 2: New York down to Florida and Tennessee and.
Speaker 1: Who whoaaha, you get a band together. What are the
Speaker 1: first couple of gigs?
Speaker 2: Oh? Just I was Chicken Wing Joy in Columbia. That
Speaker 2: was right across the street from my dorm.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: We would literally carry our instruments from our dorm room
Speaker 2: across the street and play at Pappy's and it was great.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not even there anymore. It's a bookstore now.
Speaker 1: Well, a lot of people, you know, bands start and
Speaker 1: there's a member in the band who's hitting up every
Speaker 1: club owner. It says, give us a gig, give us
Speaker 1: a chance. What happened with your band?
Speaker 2: Sure we did that, you know, especially especially in the
Speaker 2: first couple of years, where we just called clubs in
Speaker 2: town that we knew had bands and tried to get in.
Speaker 2: And then you start calling outside of town, and you know,
Speaker 2: you start playing frats and you know, I guess we
Speaker 2: got lucky early on. I think it was East Coast
Speaker 2: Booking or something was the David book Is. Somebody saw
Speaker 2: us one night, liked us, and so they would.
Speaker 3: Help us book that.
Speaker 2: They would help us book shows all you know, either
Speaker 2: frat house here or some small club somewhere, and you know,
Speaker 2: so you just start playing and developing a reputation. And
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll say, you know, every club we ever played,
Speaker 2: we might have gone there the first time there was
Speaker 2: ten people there, but the next time we came.
Speaker 3: There was forty.
Speaker 2: Why because we were good, you know, we were good
Speaker 2: and we were fun. And people would tell their friends,
Speaker 2: well that WHOI Wolf's band back in time. We gotta
Speaker 2: go see them, And then the next time they be eighty.
Speaker 2: Then the next time they'd be two hundred.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're the front band. It's your job. How do
Speaker 1: you make it fun?
Speaker 2: Oh? I never thought of it like that way. You know,
Speaker 2: for us, it was just let's go play our music,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, I think it's still like that
Speaker 2: when Hoodie's together. It's not it's not my job to
Speaker 2: make it fun. We play music and we do what
Speaker 2: we do and we hope you like it. I will
Speaker 2: say to somebody the other day, the difference between playing
Speaker 2: my country band and playing with Whodi is when I
Speaker 2: play with Hoodie, I feel like I'm Jerry Garcia. I'm saying,
Speaker 2: I'm never with my guitar and my job is to
Speaker 2: play guitar and say, you know. But when I play
Speaker 2: with my country band, I feel like my job is
Speaker 2: to be big jagger. I mean, and that's just two
Speaker 2: different things. But with Hoody that's what we are as well.
Speaker 2: We were just we were four. We were a band.
Speaker 2: It wasn't anybody's band. There was no front man. We
Speaker 2: were all the frontman.
Speaker 1: I was just a guy, that's And at what point
Speaker 1: did the money become such? He said, wait a second,
Speaker 1: this is real. Never mind not finishing school.
Speaker 2: Oh before we before we made it, before we had
Speaker 2: a record deal, I think two years about. We played
Speaker 2: for seven years before we had a record deal, and
Speaker 2: I think two or three years before before we got
Speaker 2: a record deal, we each made like fifty sixty thousand
Speaker 2: dollars each and we thought that was amazing. We were
Speaker 2: making more than our friends that had graduated, and we're
Speaker 2: working in all these different jobs.
Speaker 3: So it was like, you know, we're doing just fine,
Speaker 3: we're doing all right.
Speaker 2: And that was how we felt, you know, Okay, we're
Speaker 2: doing fun, and we're making money. We're playing a lot
Speaker 2: of shows. We're making money, and we're working our buts off,
Speaker 2: and we compare our bills and have money to go
Speaker 2: out and drink and have money to buy clothes, and
Speaker 2: it felt good. It felt like we were doing something right.
Speaker 1: At what point did you start to play original material.
Speaker 2: Oh, after the first couple of years, Like, yeah, Sony
Speaker 2: came in. You know, we started in eighty six. We
Speaker 2: started really writing songs in eighty eight, and Sony came
Speaker 2: in the band in eighty nine. And when Sony came in,
Speaker 2: it was, you know, we went pretty much straight to
Speaker 2: eighty percent originals and you know, twenty percent covers unless
Speaker 2: you were going to our frat house then you know,
Speaker 2: you do sixty forty.
Speaker 1: Was there somebody in the band who said, wait a second,
Speaker 1: we have to write originals.
Speaker 2: No, that was just something we wanted to do. It
Speaker 2: was never anything that anybody's sitting down and going, okay,
Speaker 2: we got to It was a you know, we just
Speaker 2: started writing songs, you know, and we'd play them and
Speaker 2: and you know, it was for us. It was always
Speaker 2: when we're in Columbia, let's play the new songs, because
Speaker 2: those people have been listening to us for a while.
Speaker 2: If they don't like it, we should probably scrap. And
Speaker 2: so that's how we started.
Speaker 1: Now you're on the road and rock and roll band,
Speaker 1: you're paid in cash. Most people are not paying taxes
Speaker 1: on most of that money. What were you guys doing?
Speaker 2: Not us? We had our bass player was a business major,
Speaker 2: and we we would take half of everything we made
Speaker 2: every night, put it away from taxes. Really every every night,
Speaker 2: every night. We sometimes we'd get mad. We would get mad,
Speaker 2: but uh, you know, we put away from taxes and
Speaker 2: we pay taxes and everybody would get it all bad,
Speaker 2: you know, but we didn't want some day to make
Speaker 2: it and then ours coming over what happened in these
Speaker 2: three years you guys were playing.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had that experience in your career? With
Speaker 1: the I R S came into what did you want?
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 1: Significant?
Speaker 2: Some oh knuckle would no.
Speaker 1: Okay, because that's a typical rock and roll story.
Speaker 2: But we didn't live that story. I mean, Dean wouldn't
Speaker 2: let us. We were sticklers with taxes and we were
Speaker 2: sticklers were doing everything right, and because we didn't want
Speaker 2: that to wrappen.
Speaker 1: So you're driving in a van. There are bands who
Speaker 1: literally died with their van flips over. In addition, they
Speaker 1: stayed in a hotel and the equipment is stolen. What
Speaker 1: were your experiences going on the road for all these
Speaker 1: years before you had a record deal?
Speaker 3: Oh goodness, it was usually good.
Speaker 2: I mean we our first van sucked in the navy
Speaker 2: seats in the back, so we'd lay on the ground
Speaker 2: and the equipment would be there, and a couple of
Speaker 2: times until somebody hit the brakes and thank god we
Speaker 2: were all awake because we had all but sleeping. One
Speaker 2: of us or too, was to be dead because the
Speaker 2: equipment started to come forward, and you know, you got
Speaker 2: up and got your hands up in time to stop
Speaker 2: it from killing us. But uh, the worst thing that
Speaker 2: ever happened to us. We were playing the Bayou and
Speaker 2: DC and we were parked out back.
Speaker 3: Our fan was parked out back.
Speaker 2: We packed up the van with all the equipment and
Speaker 2: we went out drinking and we at this point we
Speaker 2: had one other guy with us, Jeff Poland with the
Speaker 2: He was a slash bank tour manager, slash security. He's
Speaker 2: riding with us in the van, and we came back
Speaker 2: and five of our guitarism and there was abandoned house
Speaker 2: right next to the bayou, and we knew homeless folks
Speaker 2: lived in there, and Jeff wasn't having it, and we
Speaker 2: went into that house and we found all our guitars
Speaker 2: and we beat a couple of people up with the
Speaker 2: guitars back.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And no car accidents, No car accidents. We were lucky
Speaker 2: with that. No car accidents. I mean when we finally
Speaker 2: had a trailer once one of the guitars fell out
Speaker 2: of the trailer that we didn't know and that that sucked.
Speaker 3: He lost a really good lass ball that day.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay. Their bands they meet in high school, they travel
Speaker 1: in vans. By the time they have the success, they
Speaker 1: hate each other. And there's certainly mega bands where everybody
Speaker 1: goes in their own limo. You know, you got four
Speaker 1: guys in a van, et cetera. How harmonious was it?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: We were best friends. We were separable. I mean it
Speaker 2: was we would go on the roads for three weeks,
Speaker 2: come home, I'm going to come home, And in an
Speaker 2: hour of being home, we were calling each other to
Speaker 2: find out where we were going that night.
Speaker 3: We were always together and he loved it.
Speaker 1: And you know, I know acts where you know, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, a couple of years after college, they
Speaker 1: got parental pressure whatever. They had a girlfriend and they
Speaker 1: said I'm stopping. Ready, the members of Hoodie the Blowfish saying, man,
Speaker 1: you know, I can't do this for another year. I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of quitting.
Speaker 2: Uh huh huh. No, that's that four of us. I mean,
Speaker 2: our first drummer quit, Our first drummer left the band.
Speaker 2: He he you know, he was he was really religious
Speaker 2: in this. I mean, his family didn't want him playing
Speaker 2: in the band. And we understood that and we respected that.
Speaker 2: It was probably a good thing because then Sony wouldn't
Speaker 2: be in the band and we would have home my
Speaker 2: hand and you know, some other stuff and so but uh,
Speaker 2: the four of us, it was ever that. It was
Speaker 2: never I'm gonna quit. It was we won't play until
Speaker 2: we make it.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay. Was there a conscious thing because you're making
Speaker 1: good money at this point and you're living quite a life.
Speaker 1: Was there a conscious thing? We got to get a
Speaker 1: record deal, We're going to be big stars.
Speaker 2: At first, at first, that was that though I don't
Speaker 2: think we ever said we're going to be big stars,
Speaker 2: especially the nineties when grunge took over, you know. But uh,
Speaker 2: at first it was that do we got a record
Speaker 2: deal with a company like Capricorn Records or something I
Speaker 2: think it was called, and uh we got a record
Speaker 2: that was so excited and they went under before we
Speaker 2: made our record, and that really, I think put a
Speaker 2: bad taste in our mouth labels, and so we we
Speaker 2: weren't drying to get a record deal because we were
Speaker 2: making money. We were playing shows, we were we were
Speaker 2: selling out, you know, like I said, I'm from New
Speaker 2: York down to Florida and all every every state, every
Speaker 2: six weeks, the same clubs selling them out, you know,
Speaker 2: even some towns moving to a little theater because we
Speaker 2: were doing so well. So we if a record deal came, great,
Speaker 2: If not, we're just gonna keeping make playing, keep making music.
Speaker 1: But then Atlantic comes around. So are you once beaten
Speaker 1: twice shy or how does what goes on there?
Speaker 2: No? We put when we put Kouchi Pop out, which
Speaker 2: was our EP that wrapped for Crack Review. Uh, we
Speaker 2: put that out and we sold like sixty five thousand
Speaker 2: copies out of the back of our van and at
Speaker 2: Mama Pop stores.
Speaker 3: All around the Carolinas and Georgia and.
Speaker 2: Stuff, and and Atlantic was the only one that came.
Speaker 2: I mean, there were a few labels that wanted to
Speaker 2: come see this band that was out selling YouTube and
Speaker 2: Pearl Jam down in the Carolinas, you know, and they
Speaker 2: wanted to sign us. And you know, it was like, okay,
Speaker 2: let's go make a record. You know, hopefully we'll sell
Speaker 2: two undred thousand copies. They'll let us make another one.
Speaker 2: So how'd you end up using Gone Gaming? We talked
Speaker 2: about a few We talked to a few producers, like
Speaker 2: good names, really good names, and we met Don And
Speaker 2: the minute we met Don, we knew he was our producer.
Speaker 2: He was such a calming, laid back, affeelable, invuncular presence
Speaker 2: in our lot instantly, and we knew we wanted that guy.
Speaker 2: And he had also done an RM record and he
Speaker 2: had done those Melicat records. You know, it was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we want to sound like that.
Speaker 1: So what was the experience of making the record?
Speaker 2: Like, oh man, our first record was you know, the
Speaker 2: four of us all lived in the same house, two
Speaker 2: bedroom apartment we lived in to make that record.
Speaker 3: And it was it was us against the world. It
Speaker 3: was awesome.
Speaker 2: You know. We drove in the studio together every day,
Speaker 2: we hung out all day. After the studio, we ate
Speaker 2: together and went home and watched TV together. We went
Speaker 2: out the bars together. It was awesome. It was it
Speaker 2: was exactly what we needed to make our first record,
Speaker 2: and it was it was never work. It was never working.
Speaker 2: It was it was always God, we're working with Dog
Speaker 2: gave it. We're going to make this damn record. This
Speaker 2: is crazy, Okay.
Speaker 1: A lot of people make the first record and when
Speaker 1: they're done, they're not happy. They feel they were pushed
Speaker 1: around by the label or the producer who didn't sound
Speaker 1: the way they wanted to do. When the record was done,
Speaker 1: how did you feel about the record?
Speaker 2: You know, I remember taking I thought that we played
Speaker 2: everything too slow, but that you know, that's because we
Speaker 2: were still playing used to playing live, and you know
Speaker 2: those click tracks you know, you're drinking songs just get
Speaker 2: faster when you're that in that atmosphere.
Speaker 3: But I thought it was a great record.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you deliver the record to Atlantic and they say,
Speaker 1: this is ship. We don't want to do anything with it.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say they say it was ship. You know,
Speaker 1: there were a couple of people up in Atlantic, they
Speaker 1: said it was ship you know. Uh, you know, actually
Speaker 1: Daddy Gober who was the president, loved it. You know,
Speaker 1: Tim Summer right and our guy loved it. You know,
Speaker 1: there were people up there that thought it was really cool.
Speaker 1: But there were a couple of people who were important
Speaker 1: that didn't like it because their mind, their mind was
Speaker 1: on grunge, their mind was on what was popular at
Speaker 1: the time, what was what was the big thing, you
Speaker 1: know at the time, and we weren't grunge. And I
Speaker 1: still think the greatest line of that type of our
Speaker 1: lives was the guy who said that that if Atlantic
Speaker 1: put that record out, there would be the laughing stock
Speaker 1: of music.
Speaker 3: That's a direct quote. I just always laugh at that.
Speaker 3: You know, we all laugh at that.
Speaker 2: I'm sure Atlantic that I bet the guy that says
Speaker 2: that that laughs at that.
Speaker 1: Now, Well, in this process between the record being finished,
Speaker 1: in the record gaining traction, what was your mood, in
Speaker 1: the mood of the rest of the band, We're like, no,
Speaker 1: this is still gonna happen, or man, we cut this
Speaker 1: record and they're not going to get behind it.
Speaker 2: Oh, we do, we do. We knew they were gonna
Speaker 2: get behind it, you know. I mean, they didn't give
Speaker 2: us anybody to make it, so we knew. So our attitudes.
Speaker 2: Let's go out and play shows and get people to
Speaker 2: go out and buy it. You know, Let's go up
Speaker 2: and play. Let's do what we're doing and tell them
Speaker 2: on stage we got a new record out. Yeah, go
Speaker 2: buy a record. Let's start. Let's tell two hundred thousand
Speaker 2: copies and get to make another one.
Speaker 3: We were we were never woe is me. We were
Speaker 3: never those folks. We were never victims. You know.
Speaker 2: We were on a major recordable man. You know, let's
Speaker 2: just go out and play. Let's keep doing exactly what
Speaker 2: we were doing.
Speaker 1: When was the first time you heard the song on
Speaker 1: the radio?
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean the the week the single came out,
Speaker 2: we called My Head came out as a single. We
Speaker 2: heard it Columbia on the radio, you know, and it
Speaker 2: was wow, there we are on the radio.
Speaker 3: You know, it was awesome.
Speaker 2: I mean, were you know there were stations in Columbia
Speaker 2: and Charleston and Bertle Beast that were playing the song,
Speaker 2: you know, but it just wasn't nationwide yet.
Speaker 1: Okay, at what point did you get a manager and
Speaker 1: a major agent?
Speaker 2: Oh, we got a manager before Coucie Pop, like when
Speaker 2: we were when we were we were making our very
Speaker 2: first EP. We got a manager. But he was just
Speaker 2: some dude that we do. It wasn't like he was
Speaker 2: a big time. He was just some dude. We know that,
Speaker 2: and we need people to make phone calls and stuff.
Speaker 2: That could be our manager. You know, we got a
Speaker 2: major booking agent, probably right after Letterman, you know, right
Speaker 2: after Letleman as well.
Speaker 3: We led a major booking agency.
Speaker 1: So how long did you stay with that booking agent?
Speaker 3: Oh? Forever?
Speaker 2: We we I don't think we left him. We were
Speaker 2: living with them for six years, maybe six seven years.
Speaker 1: And how did you get rid of the garage manager?
Speaker 2: He was what We kept him for ten years or
Speaker 2: probably more. Maybe I'm sure it's more than that. You know,
Speaker 2: he was just our manager.
Speaker 3: It was he was.
Speaker 2: He was part of our group. He was just one
Speaker 2: of us, you know, and so we kept him forever.
Speaker 2: And then finally he just wasn't working out for us.
Speaker 2: We didn't like some of the decisions he made and
Speaker 2: some things he did, and we just decided to move on.
Speaker 3: And when we talked McGee.
Speaker 1: So, how did you decide on Doc?
Speaker 2: Oh? I knew when we were when we were firing Rusty,
Speaker 2: Doc was going to be a manager. We hadn't met
Speaker 2: Doc a couple of times, and he loved us like
Speaker 2: Doc was a Rusty's bental and and and you know
Speaker 2: the joke was he would know Russey would call Doc
Speaker 2: and ask him what he should do, and when Doc
Speaker 2: told him what to do, he would do the exact opposite.
Speaker 3: And so, uh, you know, Doc was a no brainer
Speaker 3: for us.
Speaker 1: And what did Doc do that Rusty couldn't do?
Speaker 2: Goodness, exactly what Doc said he was gonna do. He
Speaker 2: said that, uh, we're gonna tour less and make a
Speaker 2: lot more money, and we're gonna do it the right way.
Speaker 3: And that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 1: Well, a little bit more granular, What did he actually
Speaker 1: changed so that came true?
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean everything, he streamlined everything we didn't have.
Speaker 2: We we didn't say yes to the opening of of
Speaker 2: a doenvelope anymore, you know, we we made what we
Speaker 2: did special. He made people see what we did, we're
Speaker 2: doing a special. And he was Doc McGee. Doc McGee
Speaker 2: calls you. You take the phone call and so he just
Speaker 2: big time managed us and he made it. He made
Speaker 2: being us something that was cool and important, and just
Speaker 2: do it on a bigger scale.
Speaker 3: Like it's like John bun Joey said to me.
Speaker 2: When we looked where were when we fired RUSI, we're
Speaker 2: looking for managers. I called John and I asked him
Speaker 2: what he thought about Doctor, and he said, Doc will
Speaker 2: take what you want to do in a theater and
Speaker 2: you'll do it in a in the stadium.
Speaker 3: And that was Doc.
Speaker 1: And you're still with Doc, right.
Speaker 2: I'm not with Doc anymore? No, Doc, Doc's I'm pretty
Speaker 2: much retired these days. I'm with the Maverick now with
Speaker 2: Clarence Faulding. But uh yeah, you know Doc is still
Speaker 2: my dad. I still call him for advice every week.
Speaker 1: So how'd you decide who your new manager would be?
Speaker 2: I do, Clarence. I've got Clarence you know, around here
Speaker 2: in Nashville. And uh I liked them, and you know,
Speaker 2: at this point of my career, at the point I
Speaker 2: went with Class I guess about five six years ago. Now,
Speaker 2: I mean, I just want somebody that I liked, that
Speaker 2: I get that that that wants to work would be
Speaker 2: you know that wants to take what I have and
Speaker 2: maximize it and not work my butt off and make
Speaker 2: me do things I don't want to do. And so
Speaker 2: when Clarence and I had a meeting, because I met
Speaker 2: with every manager pretty much in Nashville, who is somebody
Speaker 2: and you know it was it was definitely Clarence for me.
Speaker 1: Tell us about that definitive performance on Letterman oh Man.
Speaker 2: You know, the legend goes that, uh, you know Letterman
Speaker 2: artists in the radio on Tuesday.
Speaker 3: It was it was it was a DJ. The DJ
Speaker 3: had heard whom I.
Speaker 2: Had in a meeting and they weren't gonna add it.
Speaker 2: You know, it was it was drivetime DJ. They were
Speaker 2: gonna add it, and he loved the song, and you said,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna play this song. You gotta tell me what
Speaker 2: you think? What do you think? Was the only time
Speaker 2: they had ever played it, And you know, Letterman hears
Speaker 2: it on the drive home from the show, and you know,
Speaker 2: the legend is that he pulled over and called his
Speaker 2: book engagent and said, I want this band on my
Speaker 2: on my show.
Speaker 3: This is Tuesday.
Speaker 2: We were on the show on Friday, and first of
Speaker 2: we got a phone call on Wednesday, week Wednesday morning.
Speaker 2: We didn't believe it. We thought our manager was fucking
Speaker 2: with us. You know, no way, because we were says
Speaker 2: fans of the show. I mean that was a staple
Speaker 2: for us, watching Letterman and no way, there's there's no way,
Speaker 2: David Levond, you know. And we got a show in
Speaker 2: Colombia that night. You know, we can't. You know, that's
Speaker 2: the biggest show we've ever had in Columbia, the four
Speaker 2: thousand people. You know, we got to play the show.
Speaker 2: We'll get take the TV show, you know. And the
Speaker 2: first time the label stepped up and got us a plane,
Speaker 2: you know. And I always say we played, we drove
Speaker 2: to uh we we flew to Florida. That we flew
Speaker 2: to New York that day and we we we couldn't
Speaker 2: get on the radio anywhere.
Speaker 3: Except the Carolina's and we left in that Monday. We
Speaker 3: were the most added for the next eight days in
Speaker 3: a row.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It was it just it changed our lives.
Speaker 1: Okay, that album crack re review becomes a phenomenon and
Speaker 1: the band is everywhere. What was it like being on
Speaker 1: the ride? Oh we did, We didn't see it. All
Speaker 1: we saw was that we were so insulated with the
Speaker 1: four of us. That that was a that was the
Speaker 1: point in our career where if you wore a black
Speaker 1: T shirt, the other three guys.
Speaker 3: Would destroy you. You know.
Speaker 2: It was we were so insulated and so conscious of
Speaker 2: each other that all we saw was it the shows
Speaker 2: were getting bigger, and you know, we were doing you know,
Speaker 2: there's more TV shows calling us. That's just the play.
Speaker 2: That's how we saw. The shows were getting bigger, and
Speaker 2: we're doing a little bit more TV.
Speaker 3: That's good. We're good with that, you know. And then
Speaker 3: the money started coming in.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're so successful that ultimately a backlash begins. Do
Speaker 1: you experience that at all?
Speaker 3: Of course, of course, you know, of course you experienced it,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: And it was the thing that we had going for
Speaker 2: us with that was that even when we played clubs
Speaker 2: and we were becoming the biggest bands in the clubs,
Speaker 2: you know, other bands didn't respect us. You know, they
Speaker 2: either called us a cover band or they were you know,
Speaker 2: those guys playing that pop music. You know, they so
Speaker 2: like we wouldn't even write our names on the walls
Speaker 2: the clubs were players. Because we knew when we came
Speaker 2: back somebody would be talking ship under Yeah, so when
Speaker 2: that happened, it was just like, okay, but we're still
Speaker 2: sell our baskets, Square Guard, three Nights in the road.
Speaker 2: You know, we still you know, we're still going to
Speaker 2: number one five times.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Okay, you y'all will have to like us, because everybody
Speaker 2: out there that's a couple to see us loves us.
Speaker 1: And you emphasize in the book that you're living the
Speaker 1: rock and roll lifestyle.
Speaker 3: Oh, we were having a party. We were It was
Speaker 3: a flat out, flat out party.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was everything you expected, you know, sex, drugs,
Speaker 2: and rock and roll.
Speaker 3: It was. It was so much fun.
Speaker 1: So no regrets, you say that was great. Glad I
Speaker 1: got to do it.
Speaker 2: None. I'm glad. I'm glad all the four of us
Speaker 2: came out the other side. Okay, I'm glad the four
Speaker 2: of us could be these guys who the party's over for.
Speaker 2: But we had a great time when it was going.
Speaker 3: No regrets.
Speaker 1: What can you tell us about women on the road?
Speaker 3: So they were there. I want to tell you about
Speaker 3: that they were.
Speaker 1: Okay, so a certain number of women were willing. Did
Speaker 1: you have an interest in these women beyond one night?
Speaker 1: Did some of these women have an interest in you
Speaker 1: beyond one night when you weren't interested.
Speaker 2: Sure, I had girlfriends, you know, I had I dated
Speaker 2: people here and there, but uh, you know, at that point,
Speaker 2: it was it was so hard to date anybody because
Speaker 2: we were traveling all the time. We were never off
Speaker 2: the road, you know, so it was hard to date anybody.
Speaker 2: And so, you know, it was it was all about fun,
Speaker 2: you know. And there were folks you hung out with
Speaker 2: and you saw more than once and you hung out,
Speaker 2: but it was it was that it was that this man.
Speaker 2: It was you know, the hedonistic lifestyle. And what about
Speaker 2: drugs everywhere? You know, it was everywhere. We yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: we did our share and probably some other people share too.
Speaker 2: We had a real good time.
Speaker 1: The first check comes in, what do you buy?
Speaker 2: First check came out, I paid off my student loan
Speaker 2: and bought a truck, the first truck I ever was
Speaker 2: the first utumbild of my life.
Speaker 1: Yep, okay, tell me about the experience of the second record.
Speaker 3: Oh, I think we made that record too quick.
Speaker 2: I've said that before, but you know, Marx just really
Speaker 2: wanted to make a record and we we we're banned,
Speaker 2: and you know, somebody feels strongly about it. You can
Speaker 2: talk us into it, we'll all do it. So we
Speaker 2: It was a great experience, you know. We we we
Speaker 2: rented a big house in l A. We went, we
Speaker 2: reread it. Uh, we went. We were up in the
Speaker 2: hills of Sarah Fell and we just stayed. We stayed
Speaker 2: at the studio and we thought it was great because
Speaker 2: everybody had their own room. And but it was it
Speaker 2: was us, a dog and the engineer and you know,
Speaker 2: a couple of other people, and we ate there and
Speaker 2: we worked out there, and we played golf right down
Speaker 2: the street, and it was a great experience. It was
Speaker 2: just once again us against the world.
Speaker 1: So in retrospect, was it the record was released too
Speaker 1: soon or the record didn't have it or both?
Speaker 2: Well, I think the I think it's a better record
Speaker 2: to crecor review. I just think we put it out
Speaker 2: too soon. I mean, you know, our label wanted to
Speaker 2: put out one or two more singles, and their words,
Speaker 2: not our words, go after thriller, you know, that's what
Speaker 2: they wanted to do. But uh, you know we did,
Speaker 2: and you know, we sold five or six million copies
Speaker 2: or whatever it was. You know, that was considered a flop.
Speaker 2: After selling whatever wherever we were at that time with
Speaker 2: record Review.
Speaker 1: Okay, at this point in time, do you still get
Speaker 1: royalties from the Hoodie Records?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, every week every year.
Speaker 1: And do you own the songs you wrote?
Speaker 3: We knew yes.
Speaker 1: And in this crazy rule to the last six eight
Speaker 1: years where everybody's selling their publishing in royalties, were you
Speaker 1: ever approached? Would you ever do that?
Speaker 2: Oh? We get approach all the time, and I don't
Speaker 2: plan to do it. I mean that for me, that's
Speaker 2: an annuity for my kids. And you know, I don't
Speaker 2: need the hard earned I don't need the hard money
Speaker 2: and my bank account or anything you know from that
Speaker 2: when I know that the money's going to come eventually.
Speaker 2: But uh, you know, and people ask the Bible kind
Speaker 2: all all the time. You know, I'm not really interested
Speaker 2: in that right now.
Speaker 1: So at what point do you realize that whod he
Speaker 1: peaked with the first record and it's not going to sustain?
Speaker 1: And how does that feel?
Speaker 2: Oh? I said that before we went into the second record.
Speaker 2: That was that was a direct thing I said to
Speaker 2: the band. You guys know that what we just went
Speaker 2: through is an anomaly and that just doesn't happen like that.
Speaker 2: I mean, you can look at the history of music
Speaker 2: and the history of the biggest records in the world.
Speaker 2: And you know, you look at Michael Jackson from Thriller
Speaker 2: to Bad, you know, it just doesn't sustain.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: We just wanted to keep playing playing music at the
Speaker 2: level we were playing it, and we got.
Speaker 1: To So what comes first, your country career or the
Speaker 1: winding down of Hoodie?
Speaker 2: Oh, the winding down of Hoodie for sure. I mean
Speaker 2: I would have I don't think I would have ever
Speaker 2: gone to Nashville if someone hadn't come in and said
Speaker 2: he didn't want to tour anyone. You know, that was
Speaker 2: our job. We toured every year. That was what we
Speaker 2: did for a living. We went out in the summer,
Speaker 2: and so that was just what we were doing. And
Speaker 2: until you know, one of the band members said didn't
Speaker 2: want to do that anymore, that's what we want to done,
Speaker 2: we'd probably still be doing it that way.
Speaker 1: Okay, you have this great success in the country world,
Speaker 1: how do you decide to work with Hoodie again?
Speaker 2: We had we had not played in ten years. In
Speaker 2: nineteen we hadn't played in ten years. And to be
Speaker 2: honest with you, when they came to me with it,
Speaker 2: I wasn't enthusiastic about it. I wasn't because I remember
Speaker 2: the end and when we stopped playing, you know, we
Speaker 2: would still play the fourteen thousands either, but there'd only
Speaker 2: be nine thousand people there, you know. And when you
Speaker 2: look out there and there's five thousand depty seats, that sucks.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, there's nine thousand people there, but yeah,
Speaker 2: there's five thousand depty seats the place that we used
Speaker 2: to sell out. And so that was such. So I
Speaker 2: said in the meeting that I didn't want to I
Speaker 2: didn't want to play if it wasn't gonna be huge.
Speaker 2: That was my exact words, this is not gonna be huge.
Speaker 2: I don't want to do it. I don't want to
Speaker 2: do what I don't want to go back and do
Speaker 2: what we were doing before we decided to do that,
Speaker 2: before we broke, before we stopped playing, and everybody in
Speaker 2: that meeting was like, what's gonna be big. It's gonna
Speaker 2: be big. And then the day after that meeting, I
Speaker 2: was playing somewhere, uh and I flew into the place
Speaker 2: and I'm walking back to my dressing room and Rob Light,
Speaker 2: who is the CEO.
Speaker 3: Of of c A, a head of music at the
Speaker 3: top yeah, see he still lives.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, he got promoted whatever it. Then let's talk
Speaker 1: get into the details.
Speaker 2: He runs the show. He's one of the one of
Speaker 2: the guys who started CIA exactly. And uh, I'm walking
Speaker 2: to my I'm walking into my addressing room. Mate Rob's
Speaker 2: standing there, and I know Robin our friends, we beg friends,
Speaker 2: We've been there. You know golf, we have that golf
Speaker 2: thing that we'd love to do together. And he's standing there.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh man, you came. I was like,
Speaker 2: what are you doing here? Let's go alone to talk
Speaker 2: to you. And we went to the He had been
Speaker 2: dispatched to tell me this thing is going to be
Speaker 2: fucking huge, and they were right.
Speaker 3: That King was huge. Billboard Magazine toward the year it
Speaker 3: was huge.
Speaker 1: Why do you think it was huge?
Speaker 2: People missed it, People missed us playing and it had
Speaker 2: been ten years since who they had been out And
Speaker 2: there was a lot of people when we stopped playing
Speaker 2: that came to see us every year. You know, we
Speaker 2: see a lot of the safe faces every year, and
Speaker 2: it was ten years without that, and the nostalgia, God,
Speaker 2: I want to experience that again kicked in and it
Speaker 2: was huge.
Speaker 1: So going forward, how much, shooty, how much.
Speaker 2: Solo from this point on? Yeah, this is probably my
Speaker 2: last thuty who blow for your store? I don't know
Speaker 2: if I'm going to do this again, so you know,
Speaker 2: just pretty much solo. I mean, you know, this has
Speaker 2: been such a great run and it's been fun. But
Speaker 2: you know, I'm almost sixty. I don't even know how
Speaker 2: much long I don't want to play, you know, so
Speaker 2: like I want to do I want to do country
Speaker 2: music for a while, for a long while.
Speaker 1: And how many gigs a year have you been doing
Speaker 1: over the last ten years?
Speaker 2: Fluctuations between saba D and one hundred and twenty? It
Speaker 2: could get you know, go like I think, who he's
Speaker 2: playing fifty or sixty? They shit here, so you know it,
Speaker 2: it fluctuates.
Speaker 1: Okay, So what point in the hoodie career did you
Speaker 1: say I want to make a country record.
Speaker 2: I would saying that since the late eighties, you know,
Speaker 2: since whody really started. You know, there was actually a
Speaker 2: moment when things kind of died down where I tried
Speaker 2: to talk to guys into making the country records, like
Speaker 2: let's just go and consciously make a country record, and
Speaker 2: nobody wanted to do it, you know, Okay, we'll just
Speaker 2: keep doing what we're doing.
Speaker 1: Okay, just in this interim between you start your country
Speaker 1: career and you reunite with Hoodie, what is your relationship
Speaker 1: with the other three members.
Speaker 3: Oh, we're brothers.
Speaker 2: You know. When we see each other, it's great, you know.
Speaker 2: But when you stop playing, and as much as we
Speaker 2: were playing, you stop really hanging out a lot. You know,
Speaker 2: you call each other and play around the golf, you know,
Speaker 2: call each other and go have a beer or a beat.
Speaker 2: But but it wasn't like we were seeing each other
Speaker 2: every day, you know. But we were still in touch
Speaker 2: all the time. We were friends, like we're like brothers.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you tell Doc you want to make a
Speaker 1: country record, and Doc says.
Speaker 3: He really just said okay.
Speaker 2: And I mean I made it clear to him that
Speaker 2: I wasn't looking for a record deal because I didn't
Speaker 2: think I could get a record deal the country music
Speaker 2: you know, the pop black guy cutting over the country music.
Speaker 3: What label?
Speaker 2: And I told him, if you're gonna get me a
Speaker 2: record with, if you're gonna get me a label with
Speaker 2: Joe Schmow Records or some indie label, I'd rather do
Speaker 2: it myself. I'd rather just get my buddies and go
Speaker 2: do it myself and just make it for me, you know.
Speaker 2: But you know Doc doesn't do things that way. You know,
Speaker 2: he does things like we said, you want to do
Speaker 2: it in the theater, and he does at the stadium.
Speaker 2: And a couple of weeks later he had been a
Speaker 2: record deal with Capitol Records.
Speaker 1: And what was the experience of cutting the record?
Speaker 3: Awesome? Right it and cutting was awesome. It was awesome,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Frank Rogers, my producer, was wonderful, you know, playing Brad
Speaker 2: Hazy coming and singing all playing a single was awesome.
Speaker 2: Vince Gill coming in. You know, it was awesome to
Speaker 2: be a Nashville making that record, making a country a
Speaker 2: real country record. That was the one thing that that
Speaker 2: me and Frank really wanted to do. We wanted to
Speaker 2: make a country record and we did and it was
Speaker 2: one of my favorite experiences making the recorder.
Speaker 1: Okay, the record is done. Do you think you're going
Speaker 1: to have a hit on the chart?
Speaker 3: No, I did not think that.
Speaker 2: I it was another one of the situations where I
Speaker 2: was hoping they would let me make a number one.
Speaker 3: I hope it did well enough that I could make
Speaker 3: a number one, because.
Speaker 2: You know, the rock pop guy coming over is so
Speaker 2: proud upon a Nashville.
Speaker 3: I'm so proud upon him.
Speaker 2: But more than that, I hadn't seen anybody that looked
Speaker 2: like be on the charts for twenty five years. You know,
Speaker 2: Charlie had been twenty five years since Charlie probably had
Speaker 2: his last hit. And there hadn't been anybody that had
Speaker 2: a top forty hit since, you know, And you know,
Speaker 2: talking to some folks and being told that they just
Speaker 2: never thought their audience would accept the black country sing.
Speaker 3: You know, so I don't know what I I don't know.
Speaker 2: If I didn't expect, I thought I might have a
Speaker 2: minor hit, you know, something that maybe cracks in top
Speaker 2: Floridian makes a little noise. But you know, once again,
Speaker 2: you know, Mike Doung in the Capitol said to me
Speaker 2: when he when he signed, when he went, I was
Speaker 2: the first meeting. Now I sided with him that if
Speaker 2: I gave him, if I gave him the record, he
Speaker 2: would give me a shot. And he worked and they
Speaker 2: worked their button butts off. They worked their butts off well.
Speaker 1: In the book you talk about how you worked your
Speaker 1: buttle I did.
Speaker 2: But you know that's of course I didn't. It's my record.
Speaker 2: If if I'm not gonna work it, why should anybody else?
Speaker 2: So what did you do for that first record? I
Speaker 2: went to one hundred and ten radio stations, No five
Speaker 2: days a week, going to two or three radio stations
Speaker 2: a day, five days a week. Went to one hundred
Speaker 2: and ten of those days, and it worked.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's once again go a little more granular. You
Speaker 1: go in, you're selling. Okay, what is your pitch? How
Speaker 1: do you convince people? How do you get them on
Speaker 1: your team?
Speaker 3: Oh? My pitch was simple, you know for me.
Speaker 2: You know, you know Jimmy Harden who went with me
Speaker 2: a lot, and uh, you know, the label was really
Speaker 2: trying to get it. But when I talked to people,
Speaker 2: I said the same thing. You know, if you like
Speaker 2: the record, play it. If you don't, I understand. I wasn't.
Speaker 2: I wasn't in their bagging. I wasn't there going I'm
Speaker 2: Darius Rucker, who your blowfishes to play on record? You know,
Speaker 2: it wasn't anything like that. I was just, you know,
Speaker 2: glad to be in the room for a second, you know,
Speaker 2: and if you like it, play it.
Speaker 3: If not, I understand.
Speaker 1: But there was more than that. To what degree did
Speaker 1: you work your charm to try to make them feel
Speaker 1: good about you personally such that that would help to
Speaker 1: play the record. I didn't. That wasn't.
Speaker 2: I just went in and that was me. I really
Speaker 2: was never in there trying to overly charm anybody or
Speaker 2: make anybody. It was just go in there and be
Speaker 2: yourself and be a nice guy that you are and
Speaker 2: talk to people. You know a lot of people like
Speaker 2: the Probably the only reason I got into a lot
Speaker 2: of those buildings is because of who need a bothish,
Speaker 2: you know, and so just go in and play the
Speaker 2: song that if they want you to sit in the
Speaker 2: conference room and play some songs for you know, play
Speaker 2: some songs for for the for the employees, you know,
Speaker 2: if you're lucky enough play play the song acoustically on
Speaker 2: the radio. You know, just just go in and be
Speaker 2: you and they like you, they'll play it. If they don't, they't.
Speaker 1: And to what degree of you maintained relationships with the
Speaker 1: people of radio.
Speaker 2: Oh, I so many guys like probably to do guys
Speaker 2: that uh that told me didn't think their audience would
Speaker 2: play you know, we'll accept a black sat or my
Speaker 2: best buddies, you know, And I'm still for I see
Speaker 2: folks all the time and friends with them, and you know,
Speaker 2: they they're they're you know, I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people are thankful, relieved and happy that that that there's
Speaker 2: you know, there's now radio start. You know, there's you
Speaker 2: get to see so many app more African Americans came
Speaker 2: brown and other guys having hits and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: and and it's just people are like, this is cool.
Speaker 3: You know, this is good for cuntry, this is good
Speaker 3: for everybody.
Speaker 1: What's the difference between being on Atlantic, a rock and
Speaker 1: roll label, and Capital and national and country label.
Speaker 2: Capitol in Nashville really cares about me and will work
Speaker 2: their butt off and do anything for me.
Speaker 3: And let the just use us. That's the difference. They
Speaker 3: just used us.
Speaker 1: And how often will you interact with the people at
Speaker 1: Capital all the time all the time?
Speaker 2: You know, you know, City Babe, the new president, we're ted.
Speaker 2: We text all the time with friends of all the time.
Speaker 2: All the people who work up there. We were friends.
Speaker 1: And the world has changed and country music fans do stream.
Speaker 1: So to what degree have you fostered relationships with Spotify, Apple, Amazon?
Speaker 2: I've got friends in all those places you know, you
Speaker 2: meet because you have to meet those fives. You've got
Speaker 2: to go in their offices and hang out and do
Speaker 2: all that. And you know, streaming is is so important.
Speaker 2: It's the new way that kids are getting music. And
Speaker 2: not even kids now, everybody's getting music. And so the
Speaker 2: cloth red relationships. And you know, I'm sure when they
Speaker 2: can help you, they can, they do, and they don't,
Speaker 2: you know they don't.
Speaker 1: And to what degree are you Internet addicted TikTok, Instagram,
Speaker 1: Spotify or are you old school?
Speaker 2: I'm kind of old school, but you know, I'll look
Speaker 2: at Instagram, I'll look at you know X, that's that's
Speaker 2: you know, those of those Some of those places are
Speaker 2: where I get my news. So yeah, you're going to
Speaker 2: read it. But uh, you know, I'm not big on
Speaker 2: going on.
Speaker 3: I don't think.
Speaker 2: I think I've been on TikTok three times in my life,
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm simple, I'm animals.
Speaker 1: Okay, So the record goes to number one? Does that
Speaker 1: blow your mind?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes, it brought tears to my eyes. I couldn't believe that.
Speaker 2: Uh that don't think. I don't think about that when
Speaker 2: number one it was the number one song country music.
Speaker 3: It was. It was amazing.
Speaker 1: And at what point do you feel you were embraced
Speaker 1: by the Nashville community.
Speaker 2: I think when I was asked to join the Opry,
Speaker 2: it was the first time I really felt like I
Speaker 2: was part of Nashville, that was part of country music.
Speaker 3: I got invited to join the Opry and that was
Speaker 3: just a great moment.
Speaker 1: Tell us about that.
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, when I came to Nashville, I stided
Speaker 2: told Doc I wanted to play the Opery as much
Speaker 2: as I could.
Speaker 3: I wanted to play as much as they would let me,
Speaker 3: and I did.
Speaker 2: And uh, you know, one day I was playing, and
Speaker 2: you know, Brad Paisey stood up in the audience and
Speaker 2: asked me if I wanted to be the news member
Speaker 2: of the Country I love the Grandal Opery, and I
Speaker 2: didn't believe it. I thought he was pranking me, you know,
Speaker 2: And it was just that moment where, you know, really
Speaker 2: that moment I really thought to myself, Wow, I made it.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm in.
Speaker 1: And the first album runs its course. How much pressure
Speaker 1: do you feel for the second album? Uh?
Speaker 2: None, none, you know, because I had the team in
Speaker 2: place and I knew that capital was going to be there.
Speaker 2: They weren't going to abandon me. I knew all I
Speaker 2: had to do was make give given themselves, you know,
Speaker 2: And so we started working on that, and you know,
Speaker 2: it felt good to know that my label wasn't going
Speaker 2: to abandon me. They were in, we were going to
Speaker 2: do this. Let's do this.
Speaker 1: And to what degree did your experience with HOODI in
Speaker 1: Atlanta inform your choices?
Speaker 3: Uh? I?
Speaker 2: Also I didn't think about I didn't think much about
Speaker 2: that when we were doing the country stuff because I
Speaker 2: felt like I was in such a different situation. You know,
Speaker 2: there was nobody. The guy who saw me was the
Speaker 2: president of the latter so I was in good hands.
Speaker 2: He was gonna he told me, you do, I will
Speaker 2: give you a shot. He gave me a shot, and
Speaker 2: I knew if I gave him another record, I was
Speaker 2: gonna get another shot. And so I didn't even think
Speaker 2: about the past. I was thinking about, you know, what
Speaker 2: are we gonna do now?
Speaker 1: Okay, So Hoodie breaks. MTV is still a thing, The
Speaker 1: Internet is not a thing. Songs are bigger than they
Speaker 1: ever are today. You then have success into the twenty
Speaker 1: first century in country music when irrelevant of the record,
Speaker 1: the landscape is different. Do you find that people know
Speaker 1: your country music as well as your hoodie music?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely when we see it doing the hoodie shows.
Speaker 2: Right now, we play wagon wild all right, he plays
Speaker 2: the rupts. You know, it's this this, It's so funny.
Speaker 2: There's people in the world that don't even know that
Speaker 2: I was a singarete who like it was probably goodness.
Speaker 2: It was not even a year ago. And this guy
Speaker 2: comes into my DMS and he asked me why I
Speaker 2: played somebody covers at my show And I said to him, man,
Speaker 2: I only played like two covers, maybe three.
Speaker 3: What you talk about?
Speaker 2: He said, well, you played all those hoodis must be
Speaker 2: a big he said, you must be a big fan
Speaker 2: of Like, dude, I'm the Bofish And he was like,
Speaker 2: no way, go believes it. And I mean and a
Speaker 2: lot of the younger kids are shots when they don't
Speaker 2: know that I'm that I'm the lead singer for the Bothfish,
Speaker 2: that all they know is that I'm Darius Country.
Speaker 1: Say okay, and you're in the mailstream. You're an African
Speaker 1: American and a traditionally white medium. The main story in
Speaker 1: our world today is politics, red versus blue. What do
Speaker 1: you see, and is it possible to bring the country together, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I hope it's possible to really cut together, because
Speaker 2: I think we're always we're always the best when where united,
Speaker 2: you know, like after nine to eleven, even though it
Speaker 2: was a brief time that that was great for the catch,
Speaker 2: how much we were all together. You know, everything right
Speaker 2: now so divisive. Everything's so divisive, and the politicians and
Speaker 2: the media seems to want to keep us that way
Speaker 2: because that way they all make more money, and they
Speaker 2: all you know, but uh, you know, I just wish
Speaker 2: people would realize at the end of the day, we're
Speaker 2: all just Americans, man, you know, and and we should
Speaker 2: we should be able to come together on some important stuff.
Speaker 2: But it just doesn't seem like it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: And because of the divided nation and being a prominent
Speaker 1: in country music, we have the bud Light situation, we
Speaker 1: have all the we have all these black and white
Speaker 1: not in terms of race, but some of them are issues.
Speaker 1: Does that make you reluctant to stand up or to
Speaker 1: make certain decisions to work with different people.
Speaker 3: I'll work with anybody that doesn't.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not going to not be friends with
Speaker 2: somebody or not work with somebody because they're politics.
Speaker 1: Let me say different. Okay, Elon Musk, who has come
Speaker 1: out in support of Trump. If Elon he doesn't do advertising,
Speaker 1: but let's say he got a hold of you and
Speaker 1: wanted to tie you up with Tesla, you would say okay,
Speaker 1: or you would say wait, this is a dangerous subject.
Speaker 3: I would say it's a dangerous subject.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I stay out of politics, man. I believe what I believe.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do what I want to do.
Speaker 2: And the sad part about politics for me right now
Speaker 2: is there was a time in American history where it
Speaker 2: was okay to say, I'm not gonna be friends with
Speaker 2: that guy because he's white. Well, I'm not gonna be
Speaker 2: friends with that guy because he's black. Well I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna be friends with her because he's a woman. I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna be friends with those And now it's like,
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna be friends with this person because they're conservaible.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna be friends with this person because they're liberal.
Speaker 2: You know, for me, that's just bullshit. So I stay
Speaker 2: out of it. I stay out of it. Don't even
Speaker 2: want to talk about it. You know, it is I
Speaker 2: believe what I believe? You know, I hope the country
Speaker 2: can find a way to come together. But you know
Speaker 2: it's just so divisive.
Speaker 1: So you would not endorse political candidate?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: I will?
Speaker 2: I would say, I would say I would, though I
Speaker 2: never will. But it's like, you know, I'm not I'm
Speaker 2: not How do you say this? I am not eatistical
Speaker 2: enough or or narcissistic enough to think that I should
Speaker 2: be telling people how to vote. Everybody's got their own vote.
Speaker 2: There's enough stuff out there for you to decide how
Speaker 2: you want to vote. Why should I tell you? That's
Speaker 2: not something I've ever.
Speaker 3: Wanted to do. Do you vote every here?
Speaker 1: Okay? You live in Nashville. Now, what's the difference between
Speaker 1: Nashville and South Carolina?
Speaker 3: Nothing? There both very red states.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you ever take commercial transportation or only private?
Speaker 3: I fly, yeah, fly plays all. I fly a commercial
Speaker 3: a long time.
Speaker 1: Okay, you fly commercial? To what degree? Is do people
Speaker 1: know who you.
Speaker 3: Are all the time all the time?
Speaker 1: And is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Speaker 3: It's a good thing. It's going to suck when people don't.
Speaker 2: You know. The byproduct of success in my business is
Speaker 2: that so that means I don't have a success.
Speaker 1: And as a result of your fame, you've met incredible people.
Speaker 1: Who have you met that? Who have you not met
Speaker 1: that you want to meet?
Speaker 2: Oh goodness, who if I've not met that?
Speaker 3: I want to be. Uh, that's a great question.
Speaker 2: Oh good Every time I think it's not when I go,
Speaker 2: I think I met him. You know, the day I've
Speaker 2: met Paul McCartney was the day that everybody else can
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. But the day I've bet alt greed,
Speaker 2: you know, the times I've got to hang out without greeding.
Speaker 2: You know, No, you know, I guess right now. If
Speaker 2: I had to think of one person I want to bet,
Speaker 2: I want to be Keith Richards and a Vic Tacker.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'd love to beat the guys with the stoves.
Speaker 2: How'd you meet Paul McCartney? Tell me about that he
Speaker 2: was having a show and I was taking my kids
Speaker 2: to Tampa to see the show, and uh, you know,
Speaker 2: we're I think we're under the same management group, Maverick.
Speaker 2: And I called Clarence and I said, Clarence, if you
Speaker 2: never do anything for me ever again, I'll be okay,
Speaker 2: But you have to get me to meet Paul McCartney
Speaker 2: and he did and I cried, yes when he walked away,
Speaker 2: I cried.
Speaker 1: So a little bit slower because I've met Paul McCartney
Speaker 1: a few times. You know, meeting a celebrity, especially in
Speaker 1: a live performance thing is a very unique thing. How
Speaker 1: did it literally happen? And what was literally said?
Speaker 2: Well, he doesn't do a great and so uh we were.
Speaker 2: They took us backstage and he was about he was
Speaker 2: when he what he done with this interaction was done.
Speaker 2: He walked straight to the stage and he comes out
Speaker 2: and he knew who I was with shock me, and
Speaker 2: you know, we had a conversation. I told him I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for him, and
Speaker 2: he was not important to me.
Speaker 3: And we had.
Speaker 2: A great conversation and took a picture and he had
Speaker 2: on the sergeant upper jacket that maybe lose my mind,
Speaker 2: and it was.
Speaker 3: Just it was a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2: It was like he was They tell you not to
Speaker 2: meet your idols, but it meeting him was damn, We're
Speaker 2: worth it.
Speaker 3: He was. He was a gentleman. He was a great guy.
Speaker 1: And did he say anything of dope, Oh, you know,
Speaker 1: he was about to go in.
Speaker 2: So it wasn't like we had a deep conversation, right,
Speaker 2: you know, he was like, just keep playing music.
Speaker 3: He was like, you know, I've heard some of your songs.
Speaker 3: I love him. I like what you do? You know,
Speaker 3: keep doing it. It was great.
Speaker 2: And what about Al Greed? Oh it was great for me.
Speaker 2: I met Al a couple of times. And the second
Speaker 2: time I met out, I was doing this Al Greed
Speaker 2: tribute and he was there and we were backsaced talking
Speaker 2: and I had covered one of his songs about R
Speaker 2: and B record and he told me he really liked
Speaker 2: my version, and that was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: Okay, you have this autobiography. People said, I mean, there's
Speaker 1: not a week goes by that I don't get one
Speaker 1: of these books. And interestingly, Alan Eisenstock, who was your
Speaker 1: co writer, he's a personal friend, so that was kind
Speaker 1: of interesting. But what made you write this book? Now?
Speaker 2: I was first, you know, I've been asked to write,
Speaker 2: you know, a memoir for for so long and I
Speaker 2: kept staying no, no, and no, and you know, they,
Speaker 2: to be honest with me, they came. They came like
Speaker 2: big dogs to get me to write it this time,
Speaker 2: you know, and I Ala said I wouldn't write it
Speaker 2: till my kids were old enough. We're adults, so they could,
Speaker 2: you know, deal with be telling the truth because I
Speaker 2: was going to tell the truth and they were adults
Speaker 2: and it was just okay. And actually, when Al and
Speaker 2: I started writing it, it was it was so therapeutic.
Speaker 3: It was it was it was I'm so glad I
Speaker 3: did it.
Speaker 1: And the funny thing about the book is I actually
Speaker 1: got hooked on the book about a quarter the way
Speaker 1: through and sat in the chair and finished it. The
Speaker 1: book is really a good read. What is your experience
Speaker 1: been since the book has come out?
Speaker 3: It's amazing. You know.
Speaker 2: Most people that have talked to me about it have said,
Speaker 2: you know, it feels like I'm sitting in a bar
Speaker 2: with you and me telling the story. And that's exactly
Speaker 2: what we wanted. We wanted to be like, you're sitting
Speaker 2: with a friend who's telling you the story in their lives,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's been amazing. I'm you know, I'm
Speaker 2: a New York Times bestselling author right now. Just saying that,
Speaker 2: you know, makes me want to giggle. You know, it
Speaker 2: was it was every interaction I've had to people who
Speaker 2: read it, even my friends, especially my friends or they're like,
Speaker 2: you know, I learned stuff that I had no idea about.
Speaker 2: And you know, every every interaction I've had about my
Speaker 2: book has been positive, and it's been really awesome.
Speaker 1: So what is your everyday life like now? How book
Speaker 1: did or do you have any relaxation time where you
Speaker 1: just basically work at three hundred and sixty five days
Speaker 1: a year.
Speaker 2: I work a lot. I work a lot to the
Speaker 2: point where I was I was pitching at my manager
Speaker 2: today because I don't work a lot. But uh, you know,
Speaker 2: I've got a happy life. You know, I got three
Speaker 2: wonderful kids, are adults that I get to see when
Speaker 2: there when their lives are too busy. And I got
Speaker 2: a wonderful girlfriend who I probably spend the rest of
Speaker 2: my life with, you know. And you know I live
Speaker 2: in a great neighborhood Nashville. I got a great place
Speaker 2: at Charleston. I'm on the road when I want to
Speaker 2: be on the road. You know, I was good.
Speaker 3: I get to see my brothers and sisters all the time.
Speaker 3: I mean, life was just good.
Speaker 1: Now, you were married for a good chunk of time
Speaker 1: and then you got divorced. To what degree did the
Speaker 1: job you have contribute to the end of that relationship.
Speaker 2: I mean, especially the years we were together and where
Speaker 2: I was mentally. You know, I was you know, I
Speaker 2: was out there and I was partying and I was
Speaker 2: having a great time. And you know, totally, like I've
Speaker 2: said this before, that breakup was on me.
Speaker 3: It was all me.
Speaker 2: And you know, you know, through a lot of therapy
Speaker 2: and you know, a lot of soul searching and really
Speaker 2: a lot of giving up that lifestyle. You know, I've
Speaker 2: become a better person and I live a better life.
Speaker 2: But you know, sometimes things are just over. And so
Speaker 2: I would say my lifestyle and what I did for
Speaker 2: a living was one hundred percent reason for that.
Speaker 1: And what will be different with this new girlfriend.
Speaker 2: I'm not that guy anymore, you know, I really I'm
Speaker 2: a homebody now. I don't want to do you know,
Speaker 2: I don't want to do anything. So, you know, so
Speaker 2: I go work and I come home and don't play
Speaker 2: golf right you know, by but four minutes from where
Speaker 2: I live and I'm home. I don't want to go
Speaker 2: out drinking with you. Don't call me to go drinking
Speaker 2: because I'm not going to go. You know, you want
Speaker 2: to go to dinner. I go to sit and have
Speaker 2: dinner with even have a bottle of wine. But I'm
Speaker 2: going home and I don't want to go to the
Speaker 2: right door. I don't want to go. And like Louis,
Speaker 2: like I said, is your therapy? I've I've dealt with
Speaker 2: my devons and I'm still dealing with them and I've
Speaker 2: figured out a way to beat them.
Speaker 1: How did you decide to go to therapy?
Speaker 2: It was just, you know, I'd go into a couple
Speaker 2: of people, but then I found the right guy. And
Speaker 2: when you find the right person to talk to and
Speaker 2: talks back to you and gives you exercises of things
Speaker 2: to make you be a better person, you know, life
Speaker 2: gets a lot better.
Speaker 1: So what is one thing that your therapist told you
Speaker 1: that help was helpful?
Speaker 2: Goodness? It's a big things, you know. One thing that
Speaker 2: was huge for me was how he you know, to
Speaker 2: let let go on the guilt. You know, that was
Speaker 2: tough for me, you know the way I was raised
Speaker 2: and where I was.
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 3: That was hard for me. But when I finally like
Speaker 3: go with the guilt, I became a better person.
Speaker 1: And since you're a homebody, what do you do at home?
Speaker 2: Like I said, I got a golf course four minutes
Speaker 2: from here that I play golf almost every day.
Speaker 3: I went home.
Speaker 2: I got two great dogs that are awesome. You know,
Speaker 2: I like to watch TV. I like to play video games.
Speaker 2: I like to jump in my pool. Yeah, I'm just
Speaker 2: you know, I've built a home that there's a lot
Speaker 2: of things I like to do, and so when I'm
Speaker 2: not on the road, they don't want to do.
Speaker 3: Much in an.
Speaker 1: Okay, Darius, thanks so much for taking this time and
Speaker 1: being so open and honest with my audience. I really
Speaker 1: appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I think it was a great talking teacher, very great.
Speaker 1: Talking Until next time. This is Bob left Sis