WEBVTT - #211 Jason Flom with Marcus Wiggins 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:05.840 Vietnam and Korean War veteran John Burge joined Chicago PD 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.000 in nineteen seventy, a detective in nineteen seventy two, and 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:13.119 eventually Detective commander of Area two and later Area three. 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.080 During his career, Haines acts of brutality and torture were 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.720 carried out by him or at his direction, fixing cases 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:24.520 with coerce confessions and false witness statements alike. He and 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:28.560 his brethren were known as the Midnight Crew before his 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.200 termination in Disgrace in nineteen ninety three and his eventual 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:36.400 federal prison sentence. Purge and his crew beat an electrocuted 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.519 thirteen year old Marcus Wiggins to extract the confession to 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.280 the nineteen ninety one murder of Alfredo Hernandez. Fortunately, a 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.839 courageous witness named Sean Tyler came forward and ensured that 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.839 the attempted frame job failed. Marcus's mother, Carol ensued and 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:55.000 eventually settled for ninety five thousand dollars. However, the Midnight 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.080 Crew didn't like being exposed. In nineteen ninety four, they 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.280 tried to frame Marcus again along with Sean Tyler, for 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.440 the murder of Rodney Collins, but Marcus was at school 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.319 in Wisconsin, so his alibi was rock solid. Sean Tyler 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:13.680 was not as lucky, and he's currently serving fifty eight years. Then, 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:18.199 on February twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight, Theopolis Tigue was found, 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.679 undressed and shot. I won't bore you with a completely 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.520 made up story about a fender bender from witnesses who 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.000 have since recanted, one of whom was shot in the 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.120 mouth the morning he was set to deliver an affidavit. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.880 Marcus Wiggins was paroled after twenty three years in prison 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:38.560 and has not yet been exonerated. This is wrongful Conviction 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:55.400 with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.520 That's me, of course, I'm your host, and today we're 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:02.280 gonna be telling the story with Marcus Wiggins of Marcus Wiggins. 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:07.160 Marcus was framed three times by the same cops that 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.720 let me just roll that back again. Three times by 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.839 the same cops. He was physically tortured in a way 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:15.160 that you know you would see and locked up abroad 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.320 in some third world country, but it happened right in 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.239 Chicago with us. Today, we have his legal team and 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:25.040 that consists of Justin Bonus, who is Marcus's pro bono 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.200 appellate counsel. So Justin, Welcome to ronfuel Conviction. 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:29.239 Thank you, Jason. 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.200 And then a guy with his own amazing story, but 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:35.400 we're going to tell it in a different episode. But 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.640 today we have Jared Adams. Jared was wrongfully convicted himself 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.600 since almost three decades in prison and basically became a 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:47.040 lawyer in prison, got himself out, passed the bar, worked 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:48.880 at the Innocence Project for a couple of years as 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.919 an attorney, is now in private practice. I'm super happy 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:53.959 to have you on here this time as an attorney 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:55.440 representing an innocent man. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:56.720 I appreciate the opportunery. 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.399 Great to have you here. And of course, Marcus Wiggins, 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.560 as I always say, I'm happier here, but I'm sorry 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.679 you're here because of the reason why you're here. But anyway, 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:07.120 welcome to Wronful Conviction. 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:08.800 I appreciate you, man. 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:13.079 So let's get right into it, because this story, it's 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:17.760 a Chicago story, and of course Chicago has a miserable 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:22.919 history of law enforcement, having tortured hundreds of black men, 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:26.800 specifically black men in a literal torture chamber. It was 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.400 an off site warehouse. And I know it sounds insane, 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.920 but it's all true. It's all been documented, and hundreds 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:37.320 of innocent men went to jail. But also cops went 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:40.560 to jail as a result of their horrendous illegal activities 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:44.840 and their disgusting practice of torturing confessions and false witness 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:46.640 statements out of people. And of course that group of 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.040 cops was known as the infamous Midnight Crew of Chicago 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:54.280 Police Detective Commander John Burge. Now Laura and I writer 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.640 and Steve Drizzond covered them on our show Wrongful Conviction, 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.000 False Confession. So to hear more about them, you can 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.960 find that right on our feed here. But today we're 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.720 here to talk about Marcus's cases specifically. So Marcus, take 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.480 us back to before all of this happened. What was 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.760 your life like growing up young? 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:12.920 At school? 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:17.880 Want to be a firefighter, a seeker, service agent, you know, 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:23.040 just being a kid, come home from school, do my homework, 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.560 dele get cartoons, you know, just a normal kid life. 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.800 A normal kid life. But this nightmare began when you 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:32.120 were just thirteen years old. 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.520 So Marcus gets picked up in ninety one for homicide, 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.080 along with several other people and he's beaten with a 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:42.719 flashlight over the head, electrocuted, taken in the precinct, tortured 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.520 some more along with other people. And from my understanding 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:50.960 is is that people actually heard screams in the police station. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.040 And all the while that this was going on, there 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.880 was a witness that could exonerate Marcus. That did exonerate 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.400 Marcus a guy by the name of Sean Tyler. And 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:03.320 the police were so on to Sean Tyler that a 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:07.080 judge issued a protective order for Sean Tyler that the 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.320 police were not allowed to talk to Sean Tyler. And 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.880 this case went on for about four or five years 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.760 before the case was dismissed in nineteen ninety six. In 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.239 nineteen ninety three, Marcus's mother filed the civil rights complaint 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:24.440 alleging the torture by John Burge and Fred Bunkie. Was 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:28.599 a sergeant, Kenneth Boudreau, James O'Brien, These were all officers 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.680 that were involved with Marcus's alleged statement that they took 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.200 after they beat him until he gave the statement. 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:39.240 I'm just shocking that a person, as a citizen of 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.640 his country, was alleged shock something that this guy learned. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:44.360 I think I read some at V. 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:45.159 And R in Korea. 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:51.320 Yeah yeah, and came over here man and used in tactics. 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:57.279 And it's not outrage. Yeah, that's like man blowing to me. 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.840 Like the State's Attorney's office, every body that who was 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.960 evolved didn't say, enough is enough, man, we can't allow 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.040 this to happen to our citizens. 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:08.839 I mean, I imagine with what you went through, you 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.520 would have confessed to killing Abraham Lincoln. Am I right? 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:12.120 Man? 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.960 You know people going to that type of torture, you 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:18.880 know what I'm saying, anything just to get from under 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.080 that pressure and that pain that you're going. 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.240 Through, especially at thirteen years old, I. 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.040 Mean thirteen and then the thirteen years. 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.800 The thing about it too, You know when you think 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:33.360 about birds, Jason, you don't get decorated in Korean Wars 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.880 and Vietnam Wars if you don't get trauma. You understand 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.120 what I'm saying. So, this is a guy who was 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:43.839 given such power, and it may have been broken with 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:49.320 Marcus's case, but the PDS office had notes between each 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:53.920 other for years before Marcus, and they were all saying, hey, 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.479 these guys, it's like they're reading off a template you know, 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.840 it's like all their confessions aren't signed and written the same, 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:04.520 you know, and it's like, you know, Marcus said, somebody 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.800 should have stepped up and said stop, let's not move 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.720 forward until we find out if all one hundred and 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.600 fifty of these black men who signed confessions and I'm 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.800 just throwing out a number, but you could just scratch 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.680 out a name and you could put Marcus's or anyone 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.320 else's confession, Sean Tyler and all of them, and you 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.880 would see the same hallmarks. There's no way judges weren't 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:27.840 tipped that something was wrong with that. 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.560 Right, every confession was the same, and every one of 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:35.440 the victims would basically described the same treatment. 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:41.240 That lawsuit that Marcus's mom spearheaded, it really unearthed exactly 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.640 how they were doing what they were doing, right, because 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:45.480 it's one thing for people to just say, hey, they 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:50.000 beating me, they kicking me. They found out in several 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.800 different other circumstances that they were doing the same type 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.680 of technics. They were smacking people with phone books so 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.720 it wouldn't leave a mark. They would twist your genitals 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:00.640 so no one could be seen, and in court were 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.640 bruises on them, so when Marcus went through with the lawsuit, 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.480 it settled for ninety five thousand, and may Marcus a 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:09.840 target from that point on. 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.200 This was the Alfredo Hernandez murder, right, And ultimately they 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.760 couldn't pin that on you. Now we get to the 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:21.680 second framing, right, which is the murder of Rodney Collins, right, 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.080 And so they do no investigation whatsoever. 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.000 Right now, which homicide didn't they do any investigation on? 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.080 They did no investigation on all of them. They rely 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.680 on terrible, wholly unreliable witnesses. I mean, Marcus's name in 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.679 Rodney Collins gets thrown in there, and they list him 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.480 as a gang member in the Alfredo Hernandez, the different 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:42.480 gang member in Rodney Collins, and then I think a 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.360 different gang member in Theopolis tig which we haven't gotten 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:46.920 to yet, which is nineteen ninety eight. 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.080 So we did a little research Marcus on you, because 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.080 I went back thinking, well, why would he be targeted 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.000 by the cops in this way in the first place? 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.560 And all I could find about your background is that 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:02.200 you were described as sweet, caring, good hearted, funny like 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:05.480 people had nothing but good things to say about young Marcus. 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:07.800 And I mean, were you ever in a gang or 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.360 anything like that. No, No, he knew the answer that 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.720 question because I researched it and the idea that this 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.600 was really good versus evil, like literally good versus evil. 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:20.280 And we're talking about cops that were well ultimately convicted 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:26.599 of heinous acts of violence, torture, psychological abuse, electrocuting, mock executions. 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:31.600 Right, the same detectives that arrested and tortured Marcus and 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:35.320 knew about Sean Tyler as an exculpatory witness, then go 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.679 after Sean Tyler for the Rodney Collins murder. He's another 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.280 bird victim, so is his brother. There were several others 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.360 that were convicted in this murder, and Sean, I think 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.240 he was beaten into he vomited blood. Sean Tyler ends 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.160 up getting fifty eight years in prison and his post 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.240 conviction motion is pending and he's claiming he's innocent. So 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.080 Marcus was a target of that investigation as well, from 0:09:56.080 --> 0:10:00.480 these same officers. Marcus was eliminated as a suspect because 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.480 he was in school in Wisconsin, because he left the state, Okay, 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:08.000 because he was terrified, all right, as he still is. 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.280 And I think if Marcus had been in the city 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.400 of Chicago. For the Rodney Collins he. 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.160 Would have gone down for he would have been Yeah, 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:15.240 he would be convicted. 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.360 Okay, So now we get to the crux of this situation. 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.760 Why Marcus spent twenty three years Ron Fleet incarcerated the 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:26.000 murder of Theopolis Teague on February twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight. 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:29.840 This is the story of the crime that the police 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.360 and State's Attorney's office used to convict Marcus. But I 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:35.600 believe we can all see a pattern forming here that 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:39.080 leans towards this being a total fabrication from Berg and 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:44.320 his flunkies. So, okay, Allegedly, Theopolis Tigue was driving down 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.360 fifty first Street in Chicago with Cedric Farley and Terrence 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:52.760 Tyler Sean Tyler's fucking brother by the way, Okay, And allegedly, 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.199 now the maroon car in front of Theopolis Tigue's car 0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:00.000 backs up into them with enough force to push them. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:04.480 I'm in the car backward. Then Tigue allegedly drove to 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.360 the fifty two hundred block of South Marshfield Avenue, parked 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.480 his car, and got out to assess the damage, at 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.559 which point, supposedly the driver of the maroon car. Allegedly, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:18.959 Marcus Wiggins stepped up to Teague and said what's up now. 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:25.000 Teague and the others allegedly ran, while Marcus allegedly opened fire, 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:30.360 killing Tigue. Now, neighbors heard thirteen shots that supposedly came 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:35.760 from a nine millimeters semi automatic. Neither were shellcasings found 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.200 or collected at the scene, by the way, nor were 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.600 bullets recovered from Tigue's body. So police maintained that the 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.600 shooting was geang related, despite what we already covered, which 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.680 was that Marcus was never in any gangs. Again, the 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:55.320 state's word here is wholly and totally unreliable. Now, according 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:59.559 to Cedric Barley, a statement and testimony that he later recanted, 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.440 he ran over to Tigue, who allegedly told him that 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:08.560 a guy named Stutter shot him, and Stutter was Marcus's nickname. 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.520 Yeah, Marcus, please clarify about calling you Stutter and stuff 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:13.920 like that, Like where it came from. 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:16.720 It came from after the torture. 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.480 Like my friend, my friends and my cousin knows when 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.560 I talk, I stutter, So given the name because I 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:25.360 know I stuttered after the torture. 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.400 So that's important, Jason, because they put that shit in 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.400 the witness's mouth. Man, that's intimate knowledge from somebody that 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.400 you know, soooed you want wow. 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.319 The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of this episode 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.120 of Wrongful Convision with Jason Flam and of the Last 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.720 Mile organization, which provides business and tech training to help 0:12:55.880 --> 0:13:01.040 incarcerated individuals successfully and permanently re enter the workforce. The 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.199 Pacers Foundation is committed to improving the lives of Hoosiers 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.920 across Indiana, supporting organizations that are dedicated primarily to helping 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.319 young people and students. For more information on the work 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.880 of the Pacers Foundation or the Last Mile Program, please 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:20.080 visit Pacers Foundation dot org or the Lastmile dot org. 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:27.200 This episode is underwritten by Paul Weiss, Rifkin, Porton and Garrison, 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.880 a leading international law firm. Paul Weiss has long had 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:35.199 an unwavering commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.760 to the most vulnerable members of our society and in 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.600 support of the public interest, including extensive work in the 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:52.640 criminal justice area. It's worth noting that a witness to 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.400 the alleged fender bender, remember that part of the story 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.560 reported that the car Marcus was allegedly driving was maroon 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.439 or burgundy, but we know that he never owned a 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.800 Maruna burgundy car. You owned a black car. And the 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:08.280 mechanic bravely also reported that when Marcus brought his black 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.840 car again black color was black to the shop, it 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.800 had no damage to the rear bumper, so and the 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.800 police told it. So the police knew that that didn't match. 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.720 Up the mechanic. That information only comes out three years 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.640 after his conviction. So it's documented that that car was 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.520 in the shop. And get this, the police take the 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.760 car out of the shop destroy it right away. 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:36.120 Now here's another crazy thing about this case. The victim, 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.680 Theopolis Tigue, his body was discovered clothed only in a 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.080 T shirt and boxers in the dead of Chicago winter. 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:48.160 So during this time, in this era, when people were robbed, 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.960 they would make them undress almost right, So that was 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.800 a big detail. It was glossed over, right. So it's 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.560 more likely than not how the body was found, like 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:01.840 you said, with a T shirt with the boxes, that 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.800 he was robbed, being shot and killed, and it had 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.440 nothing to do with the scenario that they made up 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:08.480 to get their. 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.960 Target Marcus or he was dropped there. 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.080 That as well. Those are the options, but the option 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.160 of back into the car. I went to go check 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.640 the damage, I was shot and ran away. It's nonsense 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:18.880 and it's never been credible. 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.440 So we now have the car. He didn't known the gun, 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.400 he never owned the gang that he was never in, 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:27.000 because they said this was a gang related shooting, which 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.280 again would point away from Marcus. Everyone knew he was 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:31.760 never in a gang. In fact, he used to be 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.320 tormented by gang members because he wasn't in a gang. 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:39.720 So ultimately Marcus is charged with murder. Atlanta Johnson his 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:44.200 attorney through the initial trial, and the state utilized that 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:49.280 murder is chosen carefully. Three witnesses, Cedric Farley, RL Mahon, 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.240 and Kelly Stokes to testify against Marcus. 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.920 And he fully recanted it. He was interviewed by Kenneth Boudreau, 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.440 who was a person that Marcus sues in nineteen ninety three. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.840 To say, Kenneth Boudreau was a hands on interviewer. 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.200 Totally hands on. People want to make Chicago only look 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.080 like confessions are what these guys were obtaining through torture. 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:15.040 They were getting everything through torture. All the witnesses in 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.160 this case were the type of guys that you want 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:18.920 to flip, And how do you flip them? 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:20.720 Force it to go to move? 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.760 Was it right? Well, they weren't doing any investigating, so 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:24.840 I guess what else you've got? 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.200 They do no canvas in this case. What police do 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.280 when they find a body in the neighborhood, what do 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.680 they do? They go door to door to talk to people. 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.160 What independent witnesses do we have? They don't do that. 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.200 No shellcasings, no door to door. You arrest a guy 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.120 three hours later, and Jason three hours after the crime. 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.280 In the nineties and even till today, it is standard 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:50.480 to do gunshot residue testing on clothing hands that the 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:54.120 powder is going to stay on you. They don't do 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.680 any of this because they don't want the physical evidence 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:01.160 to show the unreliability of their witnesses. And I mean 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.520 unreliability to me is actually a kind word in this 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:05.600 in this case. 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:06.160 Of very kind. 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:11.280 It's kind the lies, the fabrication, and all the witnesses 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:13.679 say when they're in the police station they're talking about 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:14.920 Marcus Wiggins. 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.760 They were aggressively disinterested in who actually committed this crime, 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:20.560 which of course is just more bad. 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:22.280 Safety issue, right of course. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:26.439 You know for folks like Marcus, you know, even like 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.200 myself back then, you can't afford a fucking attorney man 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.720 like you can't even like somebody like justin back then, 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.400 with those facts, fucking hamram Man. The guys found damn 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.840 near neked in the winter time, if he was running, 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:41.360 when did he time time to take his call? 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:42.520 What you investigate? 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:43.399 Yeah? 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:45.240 They if they would have called the cops in this 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.480 case in front of a Chicago jury, the jury would 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.840 have heard that these cops were sued by this kid 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:54.840 five years prior and they tried to frame them in 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.000 ninety four like this all would have caught. And I 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.720 hate to slam them because they cross examine one the witnesses. 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.680 One of the witnesses recants, but then they don't call 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.080 their own investigator. But they get out of the witness 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.960 that the witness recanted. A thirteen year old this guy 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:12.160 orl Mayhan, who was named as the killer by one 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:16.600 of our witnesses, presently recants. You know, he actually says 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.040 Marcus doesn't do it, I mean, you know, and then 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:20.919 he and then he gets back and he recants on 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:21.800 his recantation. 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:26.160 All three of them later recanted their testimony. Right. Two 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:30.879 of them, Farley and Stokes, signed affid David's admitting that 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.119 their testimonies were false. That's very brave, right, considering what 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.720 they had been through. When you say, well, what happened 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.280 to the third witness, I'm glad you asked. The third 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.840 witness was fatally shot in the mouth on the day 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.880 that he planned to sign a similar document. That's got 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.119 to give everybody the fucking chills. I mean, he was 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.919 shot in the mouth on the day he was going 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.000 to sign a similar document. 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:54.879 What a coincidence. 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:56.760 Jesus Christ's that's a mafia. 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.359 And he recanted to three different people. He recanted on 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.960 the witness stand in the trial. He recanted to Marcus's 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:07.480 appellet attorney, and then he recanted to another woman, Tracy Ross, 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:11.119 who gave a sworn affidavit as well. So Url Mayhan. 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.200 He recanted three separate times before he was killed. 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.119 And if that wasn't enough, people are probably pulling their 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.119 hair outs in the home listen to this or in 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:23.840 their car. Melinda Chavers also reported what she knew about 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.440 the case and assigned affidavit that she was sitting on 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.639 her porch when Tigue, a member of the Blackstones. Tige 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:31.760 was the victim came up to her and said that 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.879 he saw a murder by other Blackstone members and that 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.200 they were going to come after him and kill him. 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.960 So this is powerful, right, because those witnesses were never 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.679 called to the stand either. And we don't know if 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.480 that's because of threats from detectives or more torture or 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.680 just ineffective assistance, but that's certainly since Marcus was never 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.720 a member of the Blackstones, you know, or any of 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.840 these gangs, that certainly would have also been exculpatory. So 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.160 there were all these different witnesses who could have refuted 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.760 the state's phony narrative, the whole thing about the bumper. 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.160 There were the witnesses that could have placed you at 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:11.560 your girlfriend's house, multiple witnesses. Why why did your attorney 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.840 not call them? And did you have conversations with your 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:17.120 attorney about it at that time? 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.800 Man oh Man, I had a conversation with them, but 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.200 she was unimpression that she didn't need to call witness 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:30.199 because m Mayhem and changed his. 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:34.400 Statement and that was going to be the winning tickets. 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:39.919 You know, I listen all too familiar, and yeah, and 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:41.600 I mean and it's the same thing that I went 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.520 through where it is where a lawyer court appointed. Oh 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:47.439 this is a slam dunk. You don't have to worry 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.880 about that. I've never heard of a patient saying, look, 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.040 that's okay. You gave me half the antibiotics, you can 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.000 keep the rest. I think this half will probably work. 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:57.520 It doesn't make any sense. 0:20:57.359 --> 0:20:59.440 Right, doctors take half of my appendix out? I think 0:20:59.440 --> 0:20:59.960 that'll work? 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:00.840 Makes no sense. 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.159 But you know, there was no chance. This was a 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:05.720 show trial because Marcus was never going to get a 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.040 fair ruling as long as the presiding judge was then 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:12.720 as Turnback because Turnback was known at the time as 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:16.399 being a part of Burges's go to team when he 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:19.080 had worked in the state's attorney's office and he had 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:23.040 a history of accepting confessions despite knowing that they were 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:24.880 coerced and given under torture. 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:29.360 Sick name Thurnback. He allowed the state to have their weight, 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.439 and then Mark turned on to Johnson, couldn't do this, 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:35.960 couldn't do that. He gave his state a lot of league. 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.880 Way later when I found out who don about was, 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:40.440 I ain't stand a chance anyway. 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:45.520 So September nineteenth, nineteen ninety nine, Marcus, I mean, you 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.080 had a lot of bad days in your life leading 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:50.879 up to this, But can you take us back to 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:54.080 that miserable day when you were found guilty at first 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.800 degree murder? And since the forty six years in prison? 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:57.800 What was that moment? 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:02.399 Like I couldn't believe it. I wouldn't no, you know, 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.320 killed you and then he gave me forty six years 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.680 no prison is It's what. 0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:13.320