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Speaker 1: Vietnam and Korean War veteran John Burge joined Chicago PD

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy, a detective in nineteen seventy two, and

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Speaker 1: eventually Detective commander of Area two and later Area three.

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Speaker 1: During his career, Haines acts of brutality and torture were

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Speaker 1: carried out by him or at his direction, fixing cases

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Speaker 1: with coerce confessions and false witness statements alike. He and

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Speaker 1: his brethren were known as the Midnight Crew before his

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Speaker 1: termination in Disgrace in nineteen ninety three and his eventual

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Speaker 1: federal prison sentence. Purge and his crew beat an electrocuted

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Speaker 1: thirteen year old Marcus Wiggins to extract the confession to

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Speaker 1: the nineteen ninety one murder of Alfredo Hernandez. Fortunately, a

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Speaker 1: courageous witness named Sean Tyler came forward and ensured that

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Speaker 1: the attempted frame job failed. Marcus's mother, Carol ensued and

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Speaker 1: eventually settled for ninety five thousand dollars. However, the Midnight

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Speaker 1: Crew didn't like being exposed. In nineteen ninety four, they

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Speaker 1: tried to frame Marcus again along with Sean Tyler, for

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Speaker 1: the murder of Rodney Collins, but Marcus was at school

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, so his alibi was rock solid. Sean Tyler

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Speaker 1: was not as lucky, and he's currently serving fifty eight years. Then,

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Speaker 1: on February twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight, Theopolis Tigue was found,

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Speaker 1: undressed and shot. I won't bore you with a completely

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Speaker 1: made up story about a fender bender from witnesses who

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Speaker 1: have since recanted, one of whom was shot in the

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Speaker 1: mouth the morning he was set to deliver an affidavit.

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Speaker 1: Marcus Wiggins was paroled after twenty three years in prison

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Speaker 1: and has not yet been exonerated. This is wrongful Conviction

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Speaker 1: with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm.

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Speaker 1: That's me, of course, I'm your host, and today we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be telling the story with Marcus Wiggins of Marcus Wiggins.

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Speaker 1: Marcus was framed three times by the same cops that

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Speaker 1: let me just roll that back again. Three times by

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Speaker 1: the same cops. He was physically tortured in a way

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Speaker 1: that you know you would see and locked up abroad

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Speaker 1: in some third world country, but it happened right in

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Speaker 1: Chicago with us. Today, we have his legal team and

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Speaker 1: that consists of Justin Bonus, who is Marcus's pro bono

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Speaker 1: appellate counsel. So Justin, Welcome to ronfuel Conviction.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Jason.

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Speaker 1: And then a guy with his own amazing story, but

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Speaker 1: we're going to tell it in a different episode. But

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Speaker 1: today we have Jared Adams. Jared was wrongfully convicted himself

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Speaker 1: since almost three decades in prison and basically became a

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Speaker 1: lawyer in prison, got himself out, passed the bar, worked

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Speaker 1: at the Innocence Project for a couple of years as

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Speaker 1: an attorney, is now in private practice. I'm super happy

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Speaker 1: to have you on here this time as an attorney

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Speaker 1: representing an innocent man.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate the opportunery.

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Speaker 1: Great to have you here. And of course, Marcus Wiggins,

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Speaker 1: as I always say, I'm happier here, but I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: you're here because of the reason why you're here. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Wronful Conviction.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate you, man.

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Speaker 1: So let's get right into it, because this story, it's

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Speaker 1: a Chicago story, and of course Chicago has a miserable

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Speaker 1: history of law enforcement, having tortured hundreds of black men,

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Speaker 1: specifically black men in a literal torture chamber. It was

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Speaker 1: an off site warehouse. And I know it sounds insane,

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Speaker 1: but it's all true. It's all been documented, and hundreds

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Speaker 1: of innocent men went to jail. But also cops went

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Speaker 1: to jail as a result of their horrendous illegal activities

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Speaker 1: and their disgusting practice of torturing confessions and false witness

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Speaker 1: statements out of people. And of course that group of

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Speaker 1: cops was known as the infamous Midnight Crew of Chicago

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Speaker 1: Police Detective Commander John Burge. Now Laura and I writer

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Speaker 1: and Steve Drizzond covered them on our show Wrongful Conviction,

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Speaker 1: False Confession. So to hear more about them, you can

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Speaker 1: find that right on our feed here. But today we're

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Speaker 1: here to talk about Marcus's cases specifically. So Marcus, take

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Speaker 1: us back to before all of this happened. What was

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Speaker 1: your life like growing up young?

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Speaker 4: At school?

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Speaker 5: Want to be a firefighter, a seeker, service agent, you know,

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Speaker 5: just being a kid, come home from school, do my homework,

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Speaker 5: dele get cartoons, you know, just a normal kid life.

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Speaker 1: A normal kid life. But this nightmare began when you

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Speaker 1: were just thirteen years old.

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Speaker 2: So Marcus gets picked up in ninety one for homicide,

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Speaker 2: along with several other people and he's beaten with a

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Speaker 2: flashlight over the head, electrocuted, taken in the precinct, tortured

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Speaker 2: some more along with other people. And from my understanding

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Speaker 2: is is that people actually heard screams in the police station.

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Speaker 2: And all the while that this was going on, there

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Speaker 2: was a witness that could exonerate Marcus. That did exonerate

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Speaker 2: Marcus a guy by the name of Sean Tyler. And

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Speaker 2: the police were so on to Sean Tyler that a

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Speaker 2: judge issued a protective order for Sean Tyler that the

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Speaker 2: police were not allowed to talk to Sean Tyler. And

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Speaker 2: this case went on for about four or five years

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Speaker 2: before the case was dismissed in nineteen ninety six. In

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three, Marcus's mother filed the civil rights complaint

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Speaker 2: alleging the torture by John Burge and Fred Bunkie. Was

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Speaker 2: a sergeant, Kenneth Boudreau, James O'Brien, These were all officers

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Speaker 2: that were involved with Marcus's alleged statement that they took

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Speaker 2: after they beat him until he gave the statement.

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Speaker 5: I'm just shocking that a person, as a citizen of

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Speaker 5: his country, was alleged shock something that this guy learned.

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Speaker 4: I think I read some at V.

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Speaker 1: And R in Korea.

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Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, and came over here man and used in tactics.

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Speaker 4: And it's not outrage. Yeah, that's like man blowing to me.

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Speaker 5: Like the State's Attorney's office, every body that who was

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Speaker 5: evolved didn't say, enough is enough, man, we can't allow

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Speaker 5: this to happen to our citizens.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I imagine with what you went through, you

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Speaker 1: would have confessed to killing Abraham Lincoln. Am I right?

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Speaker 3: Man?

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Speaker 5: You know people going to that type of torture, you

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Speaker 5: know what I'm saying, anything just to get from under

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Speaker 5: that pressure and that pain that you're going.

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Speaker 2: Through, especially at thirteen years old, I.

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Speaker 4: Mean thirteen and then the thirteen years.

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Speaker 3: The thing about it too, You know when you think

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Speaker 3: about birds, Jason, you don't get decorated in Korean Wars

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Speaker 3: and Vietnam Wars if you don't get trauma. You understand

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Speaker 3: what I'm saying. So, this is a guy who was

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Speaker 3: given such power, and it may have been broken with

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Speaker 3: Marcus's case, but the PDS office had notes between each

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Speaker 3: other for years before Marcus, and they were all saying, hey,

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Speaker 3: these guys, it's like they're reading off a template you know,

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Speaker 3: it's like all their confessions aren't signed and written the same,

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Speaker 3: you know, and it's like, you know, Marcus said, somebody

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Speaker 3: should have stepped up and said stop, let's not move

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Speaker 3: forward until we find out if all one hundred and

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Speaker 3: fifty of these black men who signed confessions and I'm

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Speaker 3: just throwing out a number, but you could just scratch

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Speaker 3: out a name and you could put Marcus's or anyone

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Speaker 3: else's confession, Sean Tyler and all of them, and you

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Speaker 3: would see the same hallmarks. There's no way judges weren't

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Speaker 3: tipped that something was wrong with that.

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Speaker 1: Right, every confession was the same, and every one of

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Speaker 1: the victims would basically described the same treatment.

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Speaker 3: That lawsuit that Marcus's mom spearheaded, it really unearthed exactly

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Speaker 3: how they were doing what they were doing, right, because

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Speaker 3: it's one thing for people to just say, hey, they

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Speaker 3: beating me, they kicking me. They found out in several

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Speaker 3: different other circumstances that they were doing the same type

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Speaker 3: of technics. They were smacking people with phone books so

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Speaker 3: it wouldn't leave a mark. They would twist your genitals

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Speaker 3: so no one could be seen, and in court were

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Speaker 3: bruises on them, so when Marcus went through with the lawsuit,

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Speaker 3: it settled for ninety five thousand, and may Marcus a

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Speaker 3: target from that point on.

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Speaker 1: This was the Alfredo Hernandez murder, right, And ultimately they

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Speaker 1: couldn't pin that on you. Now we get to the

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Speaker 1: second framing, right, which is the murder of Rodney Collins, right,

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Speaker 1: And so they do no investigation whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: Right now, which homicide didn't they do any investigation on?

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Speaker 2: They did no investigation on all of them. They rely

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Speaker 2: on terrible, wholly unreliable witnesses. I mean, Marcus's name in

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Speaker 2: Rodney Collins gets thrown in there, and they list him

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Speaker 2: as a gang member in the Alfredo Hernandez, the different

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Speaker 2: gang member in Rodney Collins, and then I think a

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Speaker 2: different gang member in Theopolis tig which we haven't gotten

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Speaker 2: to yet, which is nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 1: So we did a little research Marcus on you, because

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Speaker 1: I went back thinking, well, why would he be targeted

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Speaker 1: by the cops in this way in the first place?

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Speaker 1: And all I could find about your background is that

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Speaker 1: you were described as sweet, caring, good hearted, funny like

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Speaker 1: people had nothing but good things to say about young Marcus.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, were you ever in a gang or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. No, No, he knew the answer that

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Speaker 1: question because I researched it and the idea that this

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Speaker 1: was really good versus evil, like literally good versus evil.

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Speaker 1: And we're talking about cops that were well ultimately convicted

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Speaker 1: of heinous acts of violence, torture, psychological abuse, electrocuting, mock executions.

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Speaker 2: Right, the same detectives that arrested and tortured Marcus and

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Speaker 2: knew about Sean Tyler as an exculpatory witness, then go

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Speaker 2: after Sean Tyler for the Rodney Collins murder. He's another

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Speaker 2: bird victim, so is his brother. There were several others

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Speaker 2: that were convicted in this murder, and Sean, I think

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Speaker 2: he was beaten into he vomited blood. Sean Tyler ends

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Speaker 2: up getting fifty eight years in prison and his post

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Speaker 2: conviction motion is pending and he's claiming he's innocent. So

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Speaker 2: Marcus was a target of that investigation as well, from

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Speaker 2: these same officers. Marcus was eliminated as a suspect because

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Speaker 2: he was in school in Wisconsin, because he left the state, Okay,

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Speaker 2: because he was terrified, all right, as he still is.

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Speaker 2: And I think if Marcus had been in the city

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Speaker 2: of Chicago. For the Rodney Collins he.

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Speaker 3: Would have gone down for he would have been Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he would be convicted.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So now we get to the crux of this situation.

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Speaker 1: Why Marcus spent twenty three years Ron Fleet incarcerated the

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Speaker 1: murder of Theopolis Teague on February twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 1: This is the story of the crime that the police

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Speaker 1: and State's Attorney's office used to convict Marcus. But I

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Speaker 1: believe we can all see a pattern forming here that

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Speaker 1: leans towards this being a total fabrication from Berg and

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Speaker 1: his flunkies. So, okay, Allegedly, Theopolis Tigue was driving down

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Speaker 1: fifty first Street in Chicago with Cedric Farley and Terrence

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Speaker 1: Tyler Sean Tyler's fucking brother by the way, Okay, And allegedly,

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Speaker 1: now the maroon car in front of Theopolis Tigue's car

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Speaker 1: backs up into them with enough force to push them.

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Speaker 1: I'm in the car backward. Then Tigue allegedly drove to

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Speaker 1: the fifty two hundred block of South Marshfield Avenue, parked

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Speaker 1: his car, and got out to assess the damage, at

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Speaker 1: which point, supposedly the driver of the maroon car. Allegedly,

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Speaker 1: Marcus Wiggins stepped up to Teague and said what's up now.

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Speaker 1: Teague and the others allegedly ran, while Marcus allegedly opened fire,

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Speaker 1: killing Tigue. Now, neighbors heard thirteen shots that supposedly came

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Speaker 1: from a nine millimeters semi automatic. Neither were shellcasings found

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Speaker 1: or collected at the scene, by the way, nor were

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Speaker 1: bullets recovered from Tigue's body. So police maintained that the

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Speaker 1: shooting was geang related, despite what we already covered, which

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Speaker 1: was that Marcus was never in any gangs. Again, the

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Speaker 1: state's word here is wholly and totally unreliable. Now, according

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Speaker 1: to Cedric Barley, a statement and testimony that he later recanted,

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Speaker 1: he ran over to Tigue, who allegedly told him that

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Speaker 1: a guy named Stutter shot him, and Stutter was Marcus's nickname.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Marcus, please clarify about calling you Stutter and stuff

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Speaker 3: like that, Like where it came from.

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Speaker 4: It came from after the torture.

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Speaker 5: Like my friend, my friends and my cousin knows when

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Speaker 5: I talk, I stutter, So given the name because I

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Speaker 5: know I stuttered after the torture.

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Speaker 3: So that's important, Jason, because they put that shit in

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Speaker 3: the witness's mouth. Man, that's intimate knowledge from somebody that

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Speaker 3: you know, soooed you want wow.

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Speaker 1: The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of this episode

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Speaker 1: of Wrongful Convision with Jason Flam and of the Last

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Speaker 1: Mile organization, which provides business and tech training to help

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Speaker 1: incarcerated individuals successfully and permanently re enter the workforce. The

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Speaker 1: Pacers Foundation is committed to improving the lives of Hoosiers

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Speaker 1: across Indiana, supporting organizations that are dedicated primarily to helping

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Speaker 1: young people and students. For more information on the work

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Speaker 1: of the Pacers Foundation or the Last Mile Program, please

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Speaker 1: visit Pacers Foundation dot org or the Lastmile dot org.

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Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by Paul Weiss, Rifkin, Porton and Garrison,

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Speaker 1: a leading international law firm. Paul Weiss has long had

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Speaker 1: an unwavering commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance

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Speaker 1: to the most vulnerable members of our society and in

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Speaker 1: support of the public interest, including extensive work in the

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Speaker 1: criminal justice area. It's worth noting that a witness to

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Speaker 1: the alleged fender bender, remember that part of the story

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Speaker 1: reported that the car Marcus was allegedly driving was maroon

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Speaker 1: or burgundy, but we know that he never owned a

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Speaker 1: Maruna burgundy car. You owned a black car. And the

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Speaker 1: mechanic bravely also reported that when Marcus brought his black

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Speaker 1: car again black color was black to the shop, it

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Speaker 1: had no damage to the rear bumper, so and the

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Speaker 1: police told it. So the police knew that that didn't match.

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Speaker 2: Up the mechanic. That information only comes out three years

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Speaker 2: after his conviction. So it's documented that that car was

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Speaker 2: in the shop. And get this, the police take the

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Speaker 2: car out of the shop destroy it right away.

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Speaker 1: Now here's another crazy thing about this case. The victim,

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Speaker 1: Theopolis Tigue, his body was discovered clothed only in a

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Speaker 1: T shirt and boxers in the dead of Chicago winter.

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Speaker 3: So during this time, in this era, when people were robbed,

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Speaker 3: they would make them undress almost right, So that was

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Speaker 3: a big detail. It was glossed over, right. So it's

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Speaker 3: more likely than not how the body was found, like

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Speaker 3: you said, with a T shirt with the boxes, that

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Speaker 3: he was robbed, being shot and killed, and it had

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Speaker 3: nothing to do with the scenario that they made up

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Speaker 3: to get their.

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Speaker 2: Target Marcus or he was dropped there.

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Speaker 3: That as well. Those are the options, but the option

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Speaker 3: of back into the car. I went to go check

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Speaker 3: the damage, I was shot and ran away. It's nonsense

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Speaker 3: and it's never been credible.

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Speaker 1: So we now have the car. He didn't known the gun,

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Speaker 1: he never owned the gang that he was never in,

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Speaker 1: because they said this was a gang related shooting, which

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Speaker 1: again would point away from Marcus. Everyone knew he was

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Speaker 1: never in a gang. In fact, he used to be

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Speaker 1: tormented by gang members because he wasn't in a gang.

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Speaker 1: So ultimately Marcus is charged with murder. Atlanta Johnson his

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Speaker 1: attorney through the initial trial, and the state utilized that

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Speaker 1: murder is chosen carefully. Three witnesses, Cedric Farley, RL Mahon,

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Speaker 1: and Kelly Stokes to testify against Marcus.

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Speaker 2: And he fully recanted it. He was interviewed by Kenneth Boudreau,

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Speaker 2: who was a person that Marcus sues in nineteen ninety three.

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Speaker 3: To say, Kenneth Boudreau was a hands on interviewer.

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Speaker 2: Totally hands on. People want to make Chicago only look

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Speaker 2: like confessions are what these guys were obtaining through torture.

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Speaker 2: They were getting everything through torture. All the witnesses in

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Speaker 2: this case were the type of guys that you want

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Speaker 2: to flip, And how do you flip them?

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Speaker 3: Force it to go to move?

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Speaker 1: Was it right? Well, they weren't doing any investigating, so

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Speaker 1: I guess what else you've got?

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Speaker 2: They do no canvas in this case. What police do

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Speaker 2: when they find a body in the neighborhood, what do

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Speaker 2: they do? They go door to door to talk to people.

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Speaker 2: What independent witnesses do we have? They don't do that.

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Speaker 2: No shellcasings, no door to door. You arrest a guy

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Speaker 2: three hours later, and Jason three hours after the crime.

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Speaker 2: In the nineties and even till today, it is standard

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Speaker 2: to do gunshot residue testing on clothing hands that the

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Speaker 2: powder is going to stay on you. They don't do

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Speaker 2: any of this because they don't want the physical evidence

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Speaker 2: to show the unreliability of their witnesses. And I mean

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Speaker 2: unreliability to me is actually a kind word in this

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Speaker 2: in this case.

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Speaker 3: Of very kind.

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Speaker 2: It's kind the lies, the fabrication, and all the witnesses

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Speaker 2: say when they're in the police station they're talking about

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Speaker 2: Marcus Wiggins.

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Speaker 1: They were aggressively disinterested in who actually committed this crime,

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Speaker 1: which of course is just more bad.

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Speaker 2: Safety issue, right of course.

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Speaker 3: You know for folks like Marcus, you know, even like

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Speaker 3: myself back then, you can't afford a fucking attorney man

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Speaker 3: like you can't even like somebody like justin back then,

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Speaker 3: with those facts, fucking hamram Man. The guys found damn

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Speaker 3: near neked in the winter time, if he was running,

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Speaker 3: when did he time time to take his call?

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Speaker 2: What you investigate?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: They if they would have called the cops in this

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Speaker 2: case in front of a Chicago jury, the jury would

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Speaker 2: have heard that these cops were sued by this kid

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Speaker 2: five years prior and they tried to frame them in

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Speaker 2: ninety four like this all would have caught. And I

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Speaker 2: hate to slam them because they cross examine one the witnesses.

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Speaker 2: One of the witnesses recants, but then they don't call

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Speaker 2: their own investigator. But they get out of the witness

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Speaker 2: that the witness recanted. A thirteen year old this guy

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Speaker 2: orl Mayhan, who was named as the killer by one

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Speaker 2: of our witnesses, presently recants. You know, he actually says

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Speaker 2: Marcus doesn't do it, I mean, you know, and then

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Speaker 2: he and then he gets back and he recants on

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Speaker 2: his recantation.

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Speaker 1: All three of them later recanted their testimony. Right. Two

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Speaker 1: of them, Farley and Stokes, signed affid David's admitting that

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Speaker 1: their testimonies were false. That's very brave, right, considering what

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Speaker 1: they had been through. When you say, well, what happened

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Speaker 1: to the third witness, I'm glad you asked. The third

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Speaker 1: witness was fatally shot in the mouth on the day

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Speaker 1: that he planned to sign a similar document. That's got

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Speaker 1: to give everybody the fucking chills. I mean, he was

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Speaker 1: shot in the mouth on the day he was going

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Speaker 1: to sign a similar document.

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Speaker 3: What a coincidence.

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ's that's a mafia.

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Speaker 2: And he recanted to three different people. He recanted on

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Speaker 2: the witness stand in the trial. He recanted to Marcus's

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Speaker 2: appellet attorney, and then he recanted to another woman, Tracy Ross,

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Speaker 2: who gave a sworn affidavit as well. So Url Mayhan.

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Speaker 2: He recanted three separate times before he was killed.

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Speaker 1: And if that wasn't enough, people are probably pulling their

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Speaker 1: hair outs in the home listen to this or in

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Speaker 1: their car. Melinda Chavers also reported what she knew about

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Speaker 1: the case and assigned affidavit that she was sitting on

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Speaker 1: her porch when Tigue, a member of the Blackstones. Tige

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Speaker 1: was the victim came up to her and said that

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Speaker 1: he saw a murder by other Blackstone members and that

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Speaker 1: they were going to come after him and kill him.

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Speaker 1: So this is powerful, right, because those witnesses were never

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Speaker 1: called to the stand either. And we don't know if

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Speaker 1: that's because of threats from detectives or more torture or

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Speaker 1: just ineffective assistance, but that's certainly since Marcus was never

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Speaker 1: a member of the Blackstones, you know, or any of

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Speaker 1: these gangs, that certainly would have also been exculpatory. So

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Speaker 1: there were all these different witnesses who could have refuted

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Speaker 1: the state's phony narrative, the whole thing about the bumper.

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Speaker 1: There were the witnesses that could have placed you at

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Speaker 1: your girlfriend's house, multiple witnesses. Why why did your attorney

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Speaker 1: not call them? And did you have conversations with your

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Speaker 1: attorney about it at that time?

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Speaker 6: Man oh Man, I had a conversation with them, but

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Speaker 6: she was unimpression that she didn't need to call witness

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Speaker 6: because m Mayhem and changed his.

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Speaker 4: Statement and that was going to be the winning tickets.

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Speaker 3: You know, I listen all too familiar, and yeah, and

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Speaker 3: I mean and it's the same thing that I went

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Speaker 3: through where it is where a lawyer court appointed. Oh

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Speaker 3: this is a slam dunk. You don't have to worry

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Speaker 3: about that. I've never heard of a patient saying, look,

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Speaker 3: that's okay. You gave me half the antibiotics, you can

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Speaker 3: keep the rest. I think this half will probably work.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 1: Right, doctors take half of my appendix out? I think

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Speaker 1: that'll work?

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Speaker 3: Makes no sense.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there was no chance. This was a

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Speaker 1: show trial because Marcus was never going to get a

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Speaker 1: fair ruling as long as the presiding judge was then

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Speaker 1: as Turnback because Turnback was known at the time as

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Speaker 1: being a part of Burges's go to team when he

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Speaker 1: had worked in the state's attorney's office and he had

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Speaker 1: a history of accepting confessions despite knowing that they were

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Speaker 1: coerced and given under torture.

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Speaker 4: Sick name Thurnback. He allowed the state to have their weight,

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Speaker 4: and then Mark turned on to Johnson, couldn't do this,

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Speaker 4: couldn't do that. He gave his state a lot of league.

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Speaker 5: Way later when I found out who don about was,

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Speaker 5: I ain't stand a chance anyway.

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Speaker 1: So September nineteenth, nineteen ninety nine, Marcus, I mean, you

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Speaker 1: had a lot of bad days in your life leading

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Speaker 1: up to this, But can you take us back to

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Speaker 1: that miserable day when you were found guilty at first

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Speaker 1: degree murder? And since the forty six years in prison?

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Speaker 1: What was that moment?

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Speaker 4: Like I couldn't believe it. I wouldn't no, you know,

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Speaker 4: killed you and then he gave me forty six years

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Speaker 4: no prison is It's what.

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Speaker 5: Like the soldiers when they leave from overseas and come

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Speaker 5: back home, they have post trump stress.

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Speaker 4: I have that, you know what I'm saying. Because of

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Speaker 4: the torture, the jails, the penitentiaries, there's not a place

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Speaker 4: nobody want to be. You have to constantly be on guard.

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Speaker 4: You got to defend yourself.

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Speaker 5: The officers, you know, they come in with a baggage

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Speaker 5: on top of everything else that's going on in our jails.

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Speaker 4: So it's a nightmare, man. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: Don't nobody want to leave at nightmare? I don't want

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Speaker 4: to leave a nightmare no more.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 2: Two thousand and two, Marcus filed approchate motion with detailing

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Speaker 2: about the destruction of the car, detailing that the car

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Speaker 2: was in the shop. You know, it's amazing. The car's

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Speaker 2: in the shop. Car gets destroyed by the police, the

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Speaker 2: piece of evidence that they needed to prove their case

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Speaker 2: that there was a car accident gone right. Marcus's alibis

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Speaker 2: all detailed in his pro say motion in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and two. It was a very good motion. It should

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Speaker 2: have had a hearing. It was summarily denied. Again, we

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Speaker 2: go back to Dennis Drnbeck, the guy who presides over

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Speaker 2: his trial, the guy who has this intimate relationship with

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Speaker 2: these cops, is the guy that hears the post conviction motion.

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Speaker 2: And then for years Marcus went really without a lawyer,

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Speaker 2: and again he battled, and Northwestern got involved because they

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Speaker 2: saw Marcus's case and they ended up doing a documentary.

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Speaker 2: Jane Riley took over his case and God bless her,

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Speaker 2: God bless her, God bless her. But she passed away,

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Speaker 2: and so Marcus gets stuck in limbo. He submits an

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Speaker 2: application to the Torture Commission and they tell him we

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Speaker 2: don't condone the fact that your witnesses were tortured, but

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Speaker 2: you weren't tort Yeah, so it was outside of yes, right,

434
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: you weren't tortured in this case. You were tortured in

435
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: any other case, the nineteen ninety one case, but we

436
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: can't help you, right, So then you know, I got

437
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 2: involved when I saw the documentary, and of course I

438
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: knew Jared is licensed in Illinois, and we kind of

439
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 2: formed like voltron and you know, and literally, let me

440
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 2: just tell you something. Very few cases that I have,

441
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: Jared knows this. I've got cases where men are getting

442
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 2: ready to be exonerated four five years. The investigation takes right,

443
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 2: Marcus's investigator hits the ground in August, motions filed in January.

444
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 2: We've got seven affid davids from twenty twenty right, all

445
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 2: the witnesses of recandidate full file from the prosecutor's office

446
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: where you know, you see that Fred Bunkie is the

447
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: supervisor at the scene of the investigation. This is a

448
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: guy that Marcus sued personally in nineteen ninety three. He's

449
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: the supervisor, He's the quarterback. He chooses what detectives are

450
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 2: going to interview what and says he chooses Kenneth Boudro

451
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: to interview Kelly Stokes. And then what we learned from

452
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 2: Marcus Wiggins is is that James O'Brien was in the

453
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: police station after they arrest Marcus Wiggins three hours after

454
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 2: the doms it sticks his head and says, go suck

455
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: your thumb in the corner now, because allegedly after he

456
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: was thirteen and he had this, the trauma that he

457
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: suffered when he was thirteen from being electrocuted caused him

458
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: to suck his thumb. O'Brien walks right in there, and

459
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: Marcus knows O'Brien because he was beat over the head

460
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,239
Speaker 2: with a flashlight by James O'Brien, and he tells him,

461
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: we're going to stick your ass with this one. You

462
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: ain't beaten this one right. The misconduct was so bad

463
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 2: in the police station that Cedric Farley, one of the witnesses,

464
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 2: said that they were passing around a single photo of Marcus.

465
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 2: They showed him a single photo of Marcus, and they're

466
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: talking about the lawsuit in the police station. But it

467
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: gets where I mean again. The first witness to mention

468
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: Marcus his name is Terrence Tyler, and we go back

469
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 2: to the Tyler named Terrence is Sean Tyler's brother. Terrence

470
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 2: is recovering right now from a stroke, but he recanted

471
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 2: to two separate people. He recanted his statement and he said,

472
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: I know Marcus is innocent, that he didn't commit this crime.

473
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: I mean, this is unbelievable too, because Marcus has a

474
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 2: code defendant in this case. This code defendant goes bench,

475
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 2: he goes bench trial. Let me just explain that you

476
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: have a right in America to a jury trial.

477
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: Right.

478
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: Would you want one person judging you or would you

479
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,239
Speaker 2: want twelve people judging you?

480
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: Right? Man, you want twelve exactly.

481
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 2: You definitely don't want to judge if you're a defendant.

482
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: The code defendant in Marcus's case goes bench and gets acquitted. Wow,

483
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: that's crazy, Okay, And he's still so scared to talk

484
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: because of retaliation. Every witness that's Rickannon, Kelly Stokes, Ricannon

485
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 2: fearful retaliation, Cedric Farley, Recannon fearful retaliation. Lavelle Adams, who

486
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 2: was the co defendant, refuses to talk because he said

487
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 2: his lawyer said, don't speak because the Chicago Police Department

488
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 2: will come after you.

489
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're talking about folks impoverished areas, no protection, no protection,

490
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 3: there's no I'm just gonna get up and move. That's

491
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 3: not an option. Yeah, Jason, where you're going? Where the money? Yet?

492
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: You know it's not an option, just hostage in their

493
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: own place.

494
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: And where's WITSEC for the civilians in Chicago?

495
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: Right right?

496
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: Where's with this protection against the police.

497
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: In case anyone thought we were exaggerating any part of

498
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: the torture as a practice of the Chicago Police Department,

499
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: a not insignificant number of police officers in the Chicago

500
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 1: PDE who were doing this systematically. There was an investigation

501
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: which resulted in Birds himself going to prison for three years, which,

502
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: don't even get me started, three years for framing and

503
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: torturing hundreds of people while he collected pension, collected pension,

504
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: their tax dollars are paying for the shit. So there

505
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: were actual convictions that this was all supported and all found,

506
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: you know, And it's hard to prove these things. It's

507
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: always hard to get any sort of justice when it's

508
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: a person in blue that's committed almost thirty years later.

509
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want, I want to be real clear

510
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 2: about this because this was a thirty year conspiracy, because

511
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: it starts in ninety one, right, Yeah, But Marcus has

512
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: testified in other cases right credibly where he's identified these

513
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: officers because being around these men for so long, he

514
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,959
Speaker 2: was able to identify them, and courts have found him credible.

515
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: I mean, this is something that is firmly established. And

516
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 2: it's unfortunate that Marcus had the languish in prison for

517
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: twenty three years and for me.

518
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 5: To stad it come home from the jails back until sady,

519
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 5: where everybody want to play politics, nobody want to step

520
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 5: up and do the right thing, which is that's what

521
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 5: you was put in these positions for any way, is

522
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 5: to do the right thing.

523
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think State's Attorney Kimpbox is the kind

524
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: of person that will do the right thing. You know,

525
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: we had her on Righteous Convictions just a few months ago.

526
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: We asked her about your case, and although she couldn't

527
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: comment on the ongoing proceedings, she expressed her hopes for

528
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: getting to the truth and righting the wrongs of the past.

529
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: I believe we've laid out plainly here today the only

530
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: thing that justice could or even should mean here and now,

531
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: with your leave application granted, the ball is in her court.

532
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 3: If the Cook County State's Attorney's office is not willing

533
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: right now to say Marcus Wiggins is actually innocent like

534
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 3: me and Justin, and forget me and Justin. Just look

535
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 3: at the evidence says. If they not aren't willing to

536
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 3: do that, then then Jason, what's wrong with being able

537
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 3: to admit that this man didn't receive a fair trial?

538
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: Well, don't ask me, because obviously nothing but Marcus, October thirtieth,

539
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, you walked out of prison. You were paroled.

540
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: You should have been exonerated. You will be exonerated. October

541
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: thirty you walked out of prison. What was that like?

542
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 4: Hey, it's like a feeling that I can't describe, man,

543
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 4: But I was so happy. I was I was humble,

544
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 4: I was peaceful. It was just feel so good man,

545
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 4: to actually have your feet the hit of the payments

546
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 4: and walk around and just feel that feel that freedom,

547
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 4: feel that wind, feel that space. It was amazing man.

548
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: And you and we know you passed your driving tests.

549
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: Obviously you had to get a cell phone, computer. I

550
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: know I know you FaceTime because we've spoken on FaceTime

551
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of times. All this new stuff that happened

552
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: while you were locked up, right, how is it getting

553
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: used to it? Starting to feel comfortable with some of

554
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: this new technology and stuff.

555
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I'm I'm still learning how to work my phone,

556
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 4: my laptop, I'm still having to learn that too.

557
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 5: That's a lot of new stuff googogle going on out here.

558
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 5: I'm trying to get familiating.

559
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: And we're going to put links in the bio to

560
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: learn more about Marcus's case to be able to support him.

561
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: And now we turn to the part of our show,

562
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: which I call closing arguments. First of all, I thank

563
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: each of you for being here, and then turn off

564
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: my mic, kick back in my chair and just sit

565
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: and listen and learn from whatever you want to share,

566
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: anything we might have left out, or anything you want

567
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: to say at all about anything. I don't care if

568
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: you want to talk about the weather. So let's do this.

569
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: Alphabetical order is good for me and also saves Marcus

570
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: for the closing of the closing argument. So you're bad

571
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: and clean up, Marcus. Let's go to Jarrett first, then Justin,

572
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: and then Marcus.

573
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 3: Justice requires us to stop waiting for things to become

574
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 3: a hashtag before we stand up and do something. You know,

575
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 3: as we think about the one year anniversary of us

576
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 3: watching George Floyd lose his life, you know, we as

577
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 3: a society have to say to ourselves We've come a

578
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 3: long way, but there's so much work to do, and

579
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 3: I want to close my comments by saying this, there

580
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 3: is power in people's voices.

581
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 4: You know.

582
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: People become jurors, people become judges, people are voters. People

583
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 3: can make a difference. And I want people to think

584
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 3: about this when they are faced with things that challenge

585
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: them doing the right thing and speaking up. If your

586
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 3: life was to be depicted in a book where the

587
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: only reader would be someone that means the world to you,

588
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 3: would they read that book and walk away impressed right

589
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 3: now about you for what is right, calling out.

590
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 4: Things that are wrong.

591
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 3: If you can't answer that question definitively, there's more work

592
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 3: to do, Jason. I can't answer that question definitively, So

593
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: I get up and I work every day, and so

594
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,959
Speaker 3: I'm just calling on folks to not allow the norms

595
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 3: and the depictions and narratives of folks to ever stop

596
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 3: their moral compass from doing the right thing. I want

597
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 3: to thank you, my friend, for having me on the show.

598
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 3: Justin Marcus is an honor and a pleasure and a

599
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: privilege to know you, to represent you and your mom

600
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 3: a real g I'm gonna get her name on the

601
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 3: T shirt real soon so people know who she is

602
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: because she is the one who she get the credit

603
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 3: for giving birth to you more than once. She gave

604
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 3: birth to you to get here, and she also loved

605
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 3: you out of that situation, and she's still fighting. Justin

606
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 3: will tell you, okay, she will. She'll put you, put

607
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 3: you in your place if you say something wrong.

608
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: Okay.

609
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 3: So I thank you, guys man again for his opportunity,

610
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 3: and it's always a pleasure to be around you all.

611
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 4: I appreciate you to us.

612
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: Justin h definitely Carolyn Johnson's strong woman has spoken her many,

613
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 2: many many times. So would you want somebody that you

614
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: sued to investigate you for a homicide? Successfully sued? I mean,

615
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 2: I think that's like, I think this is a common

616
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 2: sense case just to get the man a new trial.

617
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 2: We don't even need to get to the witnesses. We

618
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: could just stop it. Would you want somebody that you

619
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 2: sued to be the person that investigated you for a homicide?

620
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 2: The answer is no, Okay. I mean, and these guys

621
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: really really disliked Marcus. Not only does he sue them,

622
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 2: but he also basically internally gets them in trouble, blows

623
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 2: the lid off of bird. This is like the Keystone

624
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: case that sets everything in motion. This is like the

625
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: clearest case I've ever seen a retaliation. And that's before

626
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 2: we get to of the witnesses. All right, Every witness

627
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 2: in this case is recannid. There's no evidence that Marcus

628
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: was in a gang. There's no evidence that there was

629
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 2: a car accident, there's no evidence that there were shellcases

630
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: at the scene, there's no evidence that backs up this trial.

631
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 2: Literally like happened in a vacuum, right where everything was

632
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 2: literally stripped away in this trial, so you don't hear

633
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: the truth. It is just clearly a depiction that only

634
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: the state's attorney and the police department wanted the jury

635
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: to hear. And then Marcus had no defense. How can

636
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 2: anyone have a fair trial when something like that goes on.

637
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 2: And then when you come back and witnesses are a

638
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 2: little bit more willing to talk about what actually happens

639
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 2: because it takes time for people to come It takes time.

640
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm not the same as I was

641
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: when I was a teenager. There are things when I

642
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 2: was a teenager that I probably would have lied about

643
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: if I had gotten put into a certain situation. So

644
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 2: it took time for this body of evidence to come

645
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: forward and these witnesses to come out and tell you

646
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: what happened in that precinct. These cops were obsessed with

647
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 2: Marcus Wiggins, and we'll name them James O'Brien scumbag, Okay,

648
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: Kenneth Boudreau scumbag, and Fred Bunky scumbag. They were all

649
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 2: under the umbrella of John Birch. These are the ones

650
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: that focused on Marcus. And every single witness that testified

651
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: in this case said the same thing, which is I

652
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 2: was either beaten, I was threatened, and this is why

653
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 2: I did.

654
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: What I did.

655
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: And it's believable because it's happened. How I mean at

656
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 2: this point that we don't have two, three, four, five, six, seven,

657
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: eight hands we got I don't know, there's so many

658
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 2: hands that you'd have to have to count the fingers

659
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: that this has happened. It's just it's unbelievable. And Marcus

660
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: case is clear. There was no case against Marcus. This

661
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: is a complete, utter fabrication and it's the clearest case

662
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 2: I've ever seen of retaliation in my life.

663
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: All Right, Marcus, saving the best for last over to you, Well, Well, we.

664
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 5: Know, we know, and we see what's going on all

665
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 5: around the country, fars dealing with the police, how they

666
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 5: fabricate they police reports, and then all of a sudden,

667
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 5: our video comes out, obviously from what they filed in

668
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 5: the reports, so we know what's going around to see.

669
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 5: We know what's going on these officers, especially in the

670
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 5: city of Icago, where I feel like I'm up against

671
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 5: a giant and don't nobody want to do the right

672
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 5: thing because their friends did their careers. They were about

673
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 5: more conventions, more of this and study doing the right thing.

674
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 4: It frustrates me so much. It just frustrats me so much.

675
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 4: But on a broader note, y'all have been a blessing

676
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 4: to me, man, since I've been out. Man, y'all truly

677
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 4: been a blessing all y'all. You know what I'm saying,

678
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 4: all three of y'all. You know, I just want to

679
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 4: continue to strive for what I'm doing, and I feel

680
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 4: like I'm in debt to help the next person. I

681
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 4: feel like I'm in debt to y'all to help the

682
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 4: next person to be on the same page that y'all

683
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 4: along when y'all come out, help people and fight the

684
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 4: powers that be man and y'all definitely been a blessing, man.

685
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 4: I definitely appreciate y'all from the bottom of my heart.

686
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: Man.

687
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 4: And I'm just hoping, I hopeing Kim Fox do the

688
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 4: right thing.

689
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 5: See how full acknowledge of what's going on in our commune,

690
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 5: how four not as going on with our birds in

691
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 5: the Midnight crew.

692
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 4: I just hope everybody just do the right thing, man.

693
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamer.

694
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence projects and go to the

695
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: link in our bio to see how you can help.

696
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff

697
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: Cliber and Kevin Warnis. The music on the show, as always,

698
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be

699
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and

700
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason

701
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in

702
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one