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Speaker 1: Well, I have two sons, So I spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time trying to raise good men, right, men that

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Speaker 1: are kind to women, when that understand their duties, men

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Speaker 1: that have responsibility. And I think lesbian should raise all

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Speaker 1: the men because they're super macho and get sensitive at

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Speaker 1: the same time. Hi, it's your friend Bethany who is

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Speaker 1: turning fifty and that sounds like a big, bad number

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Speaker 1: to so many people. I remember thinking that I had

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Speaker 1: to have my whole life wrapped up in my early twenties,

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Speaker 1: which is presumably why I stopped trying to be an actress,

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Speaker 1: why I got married at twenty six. My friends were

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Speaker 1: getting married, our our friend group was doing that. I

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Speaker 1: think that was sort of the last of that generation

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Speaker 1: that really got married on the younger side. And even

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Speaker 1: in my thirties, I mean not you know, ten years ago,

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Speaker 1: eleven years ago, I was getting insufficient I mean it

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Speaker 1: was a little over eleven years ago, getting insufficient funds

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Speaker 1: at the A T M. Writing checks that were bouncing,

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Speaker 1: not able to afford a taxi downtown in Manhattan, and

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Speaker 1: still in my late thirties, I did not know what

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Speaker 1: was going to happen to me. So I look at

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Speaker 1: the trajectory from my late thirties to now. I was

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Speaker 1: a late bloomer in my career. I was always driven,

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Speaker 1: I was always determined, but I always was a hard worker,

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Speaker 1: and I always was moving forward on the road. And

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Speaker 1: I have a beautiful daughter. Like I got my beautiful daughter.

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Speaker 1: I have a career that is unfathomable. I have an

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Speaker 1: amazing impact in the world from a philanthropic standpoint. So

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Speaker 1: by and large, I you know, I'm happy, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I've experienced a great loss. I I lost somebody who

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Speaker 1: I knew for thirty two years, who was a constant

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Speaker 1: in my life, who was not going to leave me.

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Speaker 1: Got I'm gonna cry, uh, you know, like everybody else

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Speaker 1: seems to have done in my you know, quote unquote

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Speaker 1: family life. He was someone who could always go to

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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving with or you know, I feel like I had

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Speaker 1: a family, and that's really hard. So I've suffered loss

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Speaker 1: and heartache and a challenging, abusive childhood. And I think

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Speaker 1: that I've come out okay, and I know that I'm

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Speaker 1: raising a beautiful and wonderful daughter. So my girlfriend's turned

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Speaker 1: fifty recently also, and she's oh, it's dreadful and it's over.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I'm like, you're wealthy, you're healthy, your

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Speaker 1: kids are thriving. Shut up, look at the glass half full.

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Speaker 1: Look at what you've accomplished. It's so vain and superficial

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Speaker 1: to care. This is my process, this is my journey.

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Speaker 1: This is where I am. I am fifty, I am proud.

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Speaker 1: This is what I look like. These are my dark circles,

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Speaker 1: these are my wrinkles. This is what it is. This

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Speaker 1: is me and pajama, this is me crying. This is

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Speaker 1: what it is, and I'm proud. So the dedication today

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Speaker 1: is to anyone at whatever their age is. This is fifty.

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Speaker 1: This is my fifty, my fifties, not somebody else's. If

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Speaker 1: this is my fifty, it's the true fifty and it's

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Speaker 1: hard earned fifties. So happy birthday to myself. I'm excited

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Speaker 1: about my conversation today with journalist Kara Swisher. She is

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Speaker 1: a powerhouse. She has worked in journalism for decades, and

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Speaker 1: she also founded the technology news site Recode. She has

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Speaker 1: conducted some of the most hard hitting interviews with the

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Speaker 1: world's most influential people. She is a gangster. She calls

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Speaker 1: people out. She's like a watchdog that just holds people accountable.

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Speaker 1: So I am so honored and excited that I got

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Speaker 1: to interview her. I'm pinching myself about the guests that

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Speaker 1: we are getting. It's bananas, and I know you're gonna

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Speaker 1: love this conversation. So let's get to it. Hi, Hi,

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Speaker 1: how are you good? How are you doing? I'm great.

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited, um because for me, you know, from

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Speaker 1: reading about you, you are way more informed about what's

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Speaker 1: going on in the world of business and tech and

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Speaker 1: really really just current and on the pulse of of

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Speaker 1: sort of everything that's going on, positive and negative. And truthfully,

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Speaker 1: you tweeted that amazing tweet which was just sort of

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Speaker 1: putting you, me and Hillary in the same context to

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Speaker 1: tweet Hillary a lot. I do that online a lot

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Speaker 1: to her because she's twee. Yeah, oh yeah, I know

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Speaker 1: her very well. You know her well, yeah, I've interviewed

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Speaker 1: her three times, like an interview tonight, actually her, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I know her really well. So I've entered your

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Speaker 1: three times and now this will be the fourth. Oh well, okay,

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Speaker 1: so then I absolutely I was going to thank you,

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Speaker 1: but I have to give you a bigger thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm absolutely certain that she would not have come on

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Speaker 1: my podcast and you not created that dialogue, and and

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Speaker 1: I was grateful, and then I just said, okay, let's

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Speaker 1: all come on. And so I'm appreciative that you're here

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Speaker 1: because I know how major you are in your time

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Speaker 1: is obviously very valuable. I appreciate and relate to your fearlessness.

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Speaker 1: But there's some point where you just sort of lit

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Speaker 1: the match and we're like, all right, I'm taking this

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Speaker 1: thing all the way. I've got this and this is

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Speaker 1: what I want to know and this is what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: So how do you run this show? I have to

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Speaker 1: tell you it's I was like this when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid. I was very uh outspoken when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid. It was irritating to my mom and continues

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Speaker 1: to be to this day. I think. I mean, my

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Speaker 1: mom always loves to tell the story when I was

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Speaker 1: in I don't know, third grade or something, I walked

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Speaker 1: out of class and said, I already know this and

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to stay here any longer until you

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Speaker 1: get me something fresh. So you know, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know where it comes from. I think some

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Speaker 1: people are just born a certain way that kind of

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Speaker 1: bold and outspoken, and I didn't. I didn't suffer. Perhaps

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Speaker 1: maybe because I was gay that I worried about what

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Speaker 1: men thought of me. I guess in some ways, a

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Speaker 1: lot of I think women hold back a little bit um,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's sort of freed me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I did grow up in a period when being gay

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Speaker 1: was not a positive thing for um, and I'm older,

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Speaker 1: but I think I just was like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: they don't like me anyway, so whatever, I'll just like,

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Speaker 1: they have reasons that are ridiculous for not liking me,

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Speaker 1: So what do I care? And it wasn't not caring

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Speaker 1: as much as I will do what I want and

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Speaker 1: I will try to be, you know, fair, And I

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Speaker 1: don't think if you go to a lot of people

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Speaker 1: I interview, because I'm pretty tough on people, they'll say

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Speaker 1: I'm unfair. I think it's just tough, and that's a

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Speaker 1: very different That's what I go for, at least that's

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Speaker 1: what that's what my partner's always say about me. They

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Speaker 1: say she's tough but fair, so they know what they're getting.

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Speaker 1: That's fine. Yeah, I mean if you're straight up and

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Speaker 1: also you know, I don't know about you. I'm not

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Speaker 1: big on for play. I'm not interested in a lot

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Speaker 1: of like small talk about what was your summer. I

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Speaker 1: don't care a good fuck, So it's more about, like,

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Speaker 1: let's get the meat of the matter. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think so. I think it works actually, and I do

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Speaker 1: think that in work, if you're like that, you can

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Speaker 1: either go two ways. You can get sort of the

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Speaker 1: reputation for a woman I'm just talking about a woman

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Speaker 1: of being a bit which I think people, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: love to like throw that around. But I think if

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Speaker 1: you just keep plowing through that that people just stop

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Speaker 1: at some point because it does it's not really effective

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Speaker 1: unless you let it affect you. That doesn't minimize the

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Speaker 1: fact that a lot of women who don't have the

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Speaker 1: same kind of attitude don't suffer for it because they

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Speaker 1: have to edit themselves constantly. They have to sort of

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Speaker 1: play the good girl. They've got to worry about the

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Speaker 1: tonality of what they're saying. You know, there's so much

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Speaker 1: talent locked in so many people that gets pushed down

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, and that's where I worry,

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Speaker 1: especially if your personal color, you're a woman, or if

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Speaker 1: you're not comfortable in that environment, you tend not to

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Speaker 1: thrive well. And I think about that a lot in tech,

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Speaker 1: because you know, there's a lot of white guys in

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Speaker 1: tech that's it, that's it's just the numbers or speak

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Speaker 1: for themselves, and you wonder why that is. And I

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Speaker 1: think a lot not necessarily about bringing people into these

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Speaker 1: tech companies for example that I cover, it's more about

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Speaker 1: how do you keep them there? And what come environment

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Speaker 1: do you have so that lots of people feel more comfortable. Well,

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Speaker 1: it seems like the environments that you're walking into where

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Speaker 1: you want to get information, the tone has to be

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Speaker 1: set immediately. You've already set it because of your reputation,

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Speaker 1: but it has to be said immediately because these guys

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Speaker 1: think that they are all powerful, they have become god.

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Speaker 1: So you have to walk into these guys that really,

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Speaker 1: you know, supermodels are running after nerdy tech dorks, and

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Speaker 1: so you're having to walk in and say, Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: all great and wonderful to travel this money, but now

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Speaker 1: what are you gonna do and how are you going

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Speaker 1: to hold yourself responsible? So how do you do that?

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Speaker 1: And how did you get into that world tech? It

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Speaker 1: was interesting because I was covering I was at the

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Speaker 1: Washington Post and I sort of was headed for one

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Speaker 1: of those traditional Washington Post careers, which is be covering politics.

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Speaker 1: You know. That was sort of the thing at the

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Speaker 1: Washington Post. That was the winner. The winners did that,

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Speaker 1: I guess, not that there's amazing reporters all over that paper,

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Speaker 1: but that was sort of at the time, the big

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Speaker 1: the big game at the Post. And I was I

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Speaker 1: was so uninterested in politics. I just was like, this

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Speaker 1: is ridiculous. There was a little too much closeness between

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Speaker 1: the press and people they cover, and there was just

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Speaker 1: it just was like it seemed like endlessly you know, bullshit.

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Speaker 1: I just was like, I can't imagine typing this stuff

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Speaker 1: all day. And when I saw the Internet for the

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Speaker 1: first time, I was like, oh, this is gonna be big,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it's very hard to deny it.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of people did. They thought it was

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Speaker 1: going to be Someone called it CB radio to me,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, no, if you could reach out

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Speaker 1: and talk to someone across it was very Star Trek, right,

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Speaker 1: And I was a fan of Star Trek and Star

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Speaker 1: Wars and things like that, and I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be a worldwide information system with these computers.

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Speaker 1: And they're gonna be in your pocket. And I kept

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Speaker 1: saying that everybody ignored me. It was funny. So I

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Speaker 1: just I don't know why I saw it before the people.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people did, but I was

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Speaker 1: one of the people who was in media who did.

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Speaker 1: And so I immediately said, what am I gonna do?

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Speaker 1: What's going to be affected? And and I don't know you,

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Speaker 1: you're an entrepreneur, so right, so you know you when

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Speaker 1: you see something and other people don't see it, you go, oh, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: this is what's going to happen. Right, whether it's you know,

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Speaker 1: selling food or creating companies or whatever you're doing, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. If you see an opening, you see it.

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Speaker 1: And so I just did because I think I'm entrepreneurial.

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Speaker 1: And I immediately said where can I go to write

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Speaker 1: about this? And where can I go to understand it?

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Speaker 1: And then I immediately said, I got to get out

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Speaker 1: of Silicon Valley, this is where it's happening, and did

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Speaker 1: for the Wall Street Journal and started covering what has

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Speaker 1: been the most controversial sort of unearthing that you've experienced

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Speaker 1: or someone who you really who we all look at

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Speaker 1: as some major visionary that we would all be intimidated

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Speaker 1: by and that you just called them out on their

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Speaker 1: ship and held their feet to the fire and they

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Speaker 1: had to be accountable to you. I think Mark Zuckerberg,

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Speaker 1: I think I've been very tough on Mark Zuckerberg and

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Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff I have been writing about

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Speaker 1: for years now, people are like, oh, I see, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like I I think I was

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Speaker 1: one of the first to say a single person having

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Speaker 1: this much power over the world's communications is dangerous. There

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Speaker 1: is no you know, this stuff that's going on in

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Speaker 1: this platform is on related not I don't mean about

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Speaker 1: government regulations that they're they're running it badly and and

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Speaker 1: there's all kinds of damage we're not seeing. And so

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Speaker 1: I think I was really one of the first to

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Speaker 1: start to call attention to that rather loudly, and I

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Speaker 1: kept writing pieces saying this guy and I've done a

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Speaker 1: series of interviews with him that I haven't been very

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Speaker 1: good for him. Um. We did one and when where

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Speaker 1: he sweat like crazy, I was asking about privacy. I

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Speaker 1: remember I've seen that. And then we did one recently

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Speaker 1: where two years ago where he talked about he and

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Speaker 1: I had an argument about Alex Jones, who was breaking

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Speaker 1: rules on his platform constantly, and he continued to let

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Speaker 1: him do that, which I thought, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: make rules, why are you letting people break them? And

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Speaker 1: Alex Jones was the guy who who's a broadcaster who

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Speaker 1: was lying about the people that were killed, the children

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Speaker 1: that were killed in Sandy Hook, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: why are you letting him spread lies and misinformation across

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Speaker 1: your platform? This is not responsible. And we argued about that,

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Speaker 1: and he shifted very quickly to the Holocaust, and which

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Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, that's not a good place to

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Speaker 1: go for someone who's not as until I actually it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have throughput to discuss this major issue. And he

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Speaker 1: started saying that Holocaust deniers don't mean to lie, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I think that's their whole business,

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Speaker 1: is that, you know. So he ended up having a

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Speaker 1: debate about that, and he just this past week has

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Speaker 1: suddenly decided they do lie and he's going to take

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Speaker 1: them off the platform. And so, you know a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff that I have targeted at Facebook is I

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Speaker 1: like Mark Zucker by the way, he's a lovely guy.

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Speaker 1: You like him? Yeah as a person, sure, Yeah, as

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Speaker 1: a leader of that company not so much. Well, that's design.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's a designer who can do amazing fashion

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Speaker 1: clothes and then they want to run their business. They

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Speaker 1: run into the ground. Well except that in his case

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Speaker 1: and a fashion designer dress comes out, it's bad. In

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Speaker 1: his case, Q and On takes over Facebook, and you know,

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Speaker 1: Q no On is so nebulous and weird and strange.

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Speaker 1: And if they're allowed these without any kind of editorial discretion,

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Speaker 1: it creates you know, or or or anti vaxers or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It just it becomes this. There's no um. Everything is

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Speaker 1: dependent on when he gets figures out that it's problematic

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Speaker 1: and that's a real problem for me, and that's what

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Speaker 1: you're there for to be like, Well, then they then

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Speaker 1: they actually should be they should be grateful for you.

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Speaker 1: But you could save a lot a lot. No, they're

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Speaker 1: not h they're not grateful. They're not grateful. Well I am,

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Speaker 1: and I think Mark really does deserve credit for understanding

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Speaker 1: social networks had been around previously, lots of them, and

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Speaker 1: he understood how what he did. He made all the

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Speaker 1: right choices in terms of doing it. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: he didn't do his job as a as a manager

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Speaker 1: to really once it got big, to understand the implications.

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Speaker 1: I think he understands it now. I think he didn't

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Speaker 1: anticipate it. Yes, so you're in your personal life and

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Speaker 1: your relationship. How is it to be so I'm a

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Speaker 1: strong person, it's not. Someone has to be able to

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Speaker 1: handle me. Someone has to be able to do the

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Speaker 1: dance with me through the waltz with me, the proverbial waltz.

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Speaker 1: How what is it like to be I read about

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Speaker 1: you and US Magazine just saying right at right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're in the tabloids a lot better, I know I'm

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Speaker 1: I was only in the tabloid once when I had

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Speaker 1: a baby. You were Oh, it was terrible. They kept

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Speaker 1: speculating whether Jeff Bezos was the father of my child,

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Speaker 1: which he is not. So it was very and that

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Speaker 1: was the end of my tabloid career pretty much. Terah,

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Speaker 1: what's a dynamic of your relationship? You're married? Yes? I

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Speaker 1: just got married again. Yeah, yess yes. I call it

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Speaker 1: the triumph of hope over experience. So I was married

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Speaker 1: for many years to a woman, and we got married

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Speaker 1: when people weren't getting married. And we had two kids,

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Speaker 1: and I have an eighteen year old who's at n

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Speaker 1: y U and a fifteen year old who's here. I'm

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Speaker 1: in living in Washington because he's in school here. And

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Speaker 1: my ex wife and I got divorced, very amicable, but

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Speaker 1: it was it was okay, it was you know, you

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Speaker 1: know how divorces go. Uh and and so we raised

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Speaker 1: the kids together. But just a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: two years ago, I met someone else on a blind

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Speaker 1: date and we just got married and we had a

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Speaker 1: baby a year ago. So congratulations. So you know, I

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Speaker 1: have everyone I've been with, including my ex wife and

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Speaker 1: my current wife. You know, they're obviously they give give

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Speaker 1: it back to me a lot. I think both of

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Speaker 1: them were people in their own right and didn't you

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Speaker 1: know they don't. They certainly tell me the truth, which

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Speaker 1: is really helpful. UM in a partner. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you like that or not. But they spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of time calling me on stuff, and especially when

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Speaker 1: I sort of you know how the work tends to

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Speaker 1: bleed into your personal life sometimes your work personality, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I do. UM, So it's you know, they're different. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say I'm that different, but it's definitely the techniques

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Speaker 1: you use at work should not be used in the

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Speaker 1: home in most of the time. I think having kids

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Speaker 1: has been a really important part of my life. People

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Speaker 1: are always surprised how many children I have, and I'm

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Speaker 1: a busy person, but I spend a lot of time,

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Speaker 1: especially these gay people at my time when I had kids,

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Speaker 1: we're not having children like we were one of the

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Speaker 1: earlier people that have to kids. And so I understand

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Speaker 1: the value and importance of how much I wanted kids,

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Speaker 1: like how and how hard it was to be able

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Speaker 1: to have them, not physically because it was I got

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Speaker 1: pregnant really quickly, but how important it was. And so

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time thinking about my kids

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Speaker 1: like and focused on them and focused on the family

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Speaker 1: unit more than almost anything else that I do, aside

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Speaker 1: from my work. It's a compartmentalized life. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: what do your kids think? Do they understand what you do? Well?

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Speaker 1: I have two sons, the older kids are sons, and

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time really making sure they

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Speaker 1: understood the world itself, you know, and I especially because

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Speaker 1: of the privilege they have, and you know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to do this like, oh you should understand, but

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Speaker 1: I want them to understand their place in the world

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Speaker 1: and how what was easy for them and what they

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Speaker 1: need to try harder on, and how they need to

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Speaker 1: open their eyes a little bit better. And so I

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of time trying to raise good men, right,

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Speaker 1: men that are kind to women, when that understand their duties,

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Speaker 1: men that have a responsibility. And I think I've done

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Speaker 1: really well. I always think lesbians should raise all the

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Speaker 1: men because they're super macho and get sensitive at the

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Speaker 1: same time, So I should lesbians have good sons. There

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Speaker 1: really are They're like that. They are They're like, there's

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Speaker 1: no like, I don't know, it's just they're they're really

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Speaker 1: very uh. And I also encourage them to argue, like

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Speaker 1: with me and everyone else, like they we have like

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Speaker 1: really fascinating discussions about all kinds of things. And I

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Speaker 1: want them to sort of understand the whole gamut of

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Speaker 1: people's opinions and everything, and not like you know, we

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Speaker 1: live we grew up. They grew up in San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: so you have a certain like you're going to have

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Speaker 1: a certain group of people there. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: they were very aware of the whole world. And with

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Speaker 1: the little girl, which is I have a little girl

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Speaker 1: now very different and interesting thing that I have to

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Speaker 1: really think about. It happens to be a super sunny child.

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Speaker 1: As you know, kids are different. But I think a

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Speaker 1: lot more about women's place because I have a daughter.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't worry as much about my sons

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Speaker 1: because I think they have an advantage no matter, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, white man in America really is educated.

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Speaker 1: White band with money in America is not my biggest worry,

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Speaker 1: all things being equal, not having other issues. And so

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Speaker 1: I think a lot now about raising a daughter and

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Speaker 1: what are the signals that are really important to try

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Speaker 1: to stress so that she feels confident. There are you know,

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Speaker 1: in no matter how I said, there's still the massive

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Speaker 1: amounts of sexes and it still exists. I faced it

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Speaker 1: not with me, but watching it in the tech sector

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Speaker 1: and the numbers even when people have the best of intentions, right,

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Speaker 1: it's still it's every It's pervasive. How has being a

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Speaker 1: woman and a gay woman helped you, like, in what

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Speaker 1: ways have you found it to be an asset? Well, personally,

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Speaker 1: it was very difficult the early years because it was

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Speaker 1: a different period of time. Like I think the world

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Speaker 1: has changed quite drastically for gay people although some of

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Speaker 1: the recent rumblings from the Surene Court are disturbing to

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Speaker 1: say the least. But I do think that I do

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Speaker 1: tend to you know. I don't want to say I

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Speaker 1: do better in business because I'm lesbian, because I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's necessarily true. But I do think that often

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Speaker 1: it changes dynamics with men, both positively and negatively. In

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Speaker 1: many ways, men do want to get along with women,

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Speaker 1: and I'm an easier person to get along with because

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Speaker 1: there's no there's none of that, like there's there's no like,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing between us, and so we can have just whatever.

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Speaker 1: The relationship is a business relationship, which is never going

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Speaker 1: to be that hap so um, but that's not I

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Speaker 1: don't think everything is sexualized, but there is an element

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Speaker 1: of you know, history and things like that, and people

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Speaker 1: relate to each other. And one of the things that

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Speaker 1: is negative though, is sometimes when i'm you know, especially

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Speaker 1: with venture capitalists who not most of whom enough that

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Speaker 1: is irritating, are kind of really sexist or say rude things, right,

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Speaker 1: And they often say like they're like, oh, she's good looking, Kara,

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Speaker 1: what do you think? And I'm like, still a feminist,

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Speaker 1: still a feminist like may like women, but I really

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Speaker 1: don't want to talk objectify women if you don't mind,

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Speaker 1: it happens all the time like men. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't think of her, you know, but and I'm

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Speaker 1: like and seen, we're back. It's still fist that I

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Speaker 1: gotta tell you, I don't talk about women's buts like sorry,

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Speaker 1: like maybe to myself in my own head, but not

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Speaker 1: to you. It sounds to me like when you're talking

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Speaker 1: to men, you're disarming in some way to them, or

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Speaker 1: you're you're unsettling, And it sounds to me like those

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Speaker 1: are the conversations you own the most. For whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I hadn't thought of that.

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Speaker 1: That's an interesting question. I don't. I think I could be.

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Speaker 1: I've had some very tough speaking of Cheryl Sandberg. I've

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Speaker 1: done some very tough energy with her. Susan Wajiski, who's

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Speaker 1: the head of YouTube, and I have gone round after

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Speaker 1: round around you know, some of the disinformation on that platform.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if they're that different. There just

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Speaker 1: happens to be more men that I cover, right, So

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Speaker 1: there's there's by like most of the CEOs are are men.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, I've had some really lively interviews

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Speaker 1: which I think are really fun with Mark Cuban. He

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Speaker 1: and I have a really or Elon Musk, who's certainly

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Speaker 1: controversial in some issues. I just did a podcast with

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Speaker 1: him on the Sway podcast for The Times, and it

427
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 1: was lively, you know what I mean. And I think

428
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:54,959
Speaker 1: it's just because it was Elon Musk, not because he's

429
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,719
Speaker 1: a man or a woman. I think it just depends

430
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 1: on the person. Some of them are very lively and

431
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 1: fun and some them are tough, and some of them

432
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 1: are are, you know, very serious. So it just it depends. Now,

433
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 1: this is gonna be real controversial. So questions. So I

434
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,400
Speaker 1: am a I am a heterosexual woman. I go, I'm

435
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: going on a date. Do you think I should pay

436
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 1: the check? Yes? Are you richer? I don't know. I

437
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: like to get a W two perceived you perceive that

438
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: you're richer. Uh, hopefully not. But I don't know. I

439
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: really don't know. So if I'm rich, a rich person

440
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: should pay the check. That's that's my role. Whoever has

441
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 1: more money pays the check. Whoever is perceptually has more

442
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: money pays the check. I think that's fine. I don't know,

443
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 1: maybe you can go back and forth. I always pay,

444
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 1: you always pay the check. You're in a you're in

445
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 1: a relationship with a woman, and I think that it steps,

446
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 1: so I'm setting women back. So just be prepared for

447
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: this for a second, and don't please don't against if

448
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 1: you want him to pay check, you do that. You

449
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,719
Speaker 1: be you. You know. I don't know what to say, like,

450
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 1: I got it, I got that. You want to be

451
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: taken care of is what you're actually saying. I'm not.

452
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 1: You don't want to be the one in charge and

453
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,880
Speaker 1: you want to be taken care of, So say that.

454
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 1: Can you play the check because I feel like being

455
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: taken care of. That'd be you, Bethany, thank you be

456
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: you are you very tech savvy personally? Can you get

457
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: on anything, do anything, figure anything out? You're helping your

458
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 1: kids the whole thing. They cannot hide from us because

459
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 1: their other mom was the CTO of Americans as an

460
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 1: m I T on the board of M I T

461
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: and a Google exactly wasn't honorable, So my kids can't

462
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: get anything past us. We're like, oh, really, we can

463
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,160
Speaker 1: call the head of Instagram and deal with that. If

464
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 1: you oh, my god. Anything you can get into anything,

465
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: log into anything, figure any app out, do all this.

466
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: I'm you're not hackers, but we don't mean that. But

467
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 1: if you wanted to be, probably could be. I don't

468
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: think I would not have to be a really good hacker,

469
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: but I certainly, certainly we're good. We're very early adopters.

470
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 1: I would say that we had all the early tech

471
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: stuff in the house way before other people. That's hot

472
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: to me. So you love oysters. Where are your favorite oysters?

473
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: I have San Francisco oysters are the best story. I'm

474
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: sorry up in Point Raise right exactly. And I know

475
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 1: the Long Island ones are good, but I love the

476
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: ones in San Francisco. Outside of San Francisco, I think

477
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: they're amazing. And I actually taught my youngest child to

478
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 1: shock oysters because he had to be able to do

479
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 1: it for me. Really, so at our recent wedding, someone

480
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: gave us two dozen I was just from Rhode Island,

481
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 1: which were delicious, I have to say, and a picnic

482
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: in the park. We did a birthday party for the

483
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,439
Speaker 1: baby who was a year old, and my son shocked

484
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: all the oysters and they were like, how did you

485
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: do that? I said it was a requirement of being

486
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: my child to be able to shock oysters. So he's

487
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 1: going to oyster shock in camp. Of course, I'm very

488
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to get him a job. That's what he's

489
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: gonna do next. So that's amazing. Yeah. And the other

490
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 1: one is a great cook. My other son is an

491
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: amazing cook, and so he cooks. Like I was talking

492
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: to the two of them last night. We were making

493
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: a cake for my ex because it's her birthday today

494
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: and um, and my oldest son was like, I was like,

495
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: are you cooking Thanksgiving dinner? And he's like, well, who

496
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: else would? It would taste terrible if you all did it,

497
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: And so he's cooking. He's cooking the whole Thanksgiving Again,

498
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 1: I say, lesbians should raise all the men. I'm gonna

499
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 1: put that on my dating profile really straight too. I

500
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: only want to meet a man who was a lesbian

501
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 1: as a mother. It's going to narrow it down, but

502
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: I'll do it. Um Uh, did you know who I

503
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: was before? Yes, of course I watched you on the Apprentice.

504
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 1: I was. I'm the only person in America who watched

505
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: all the apprentices. My friend I always like, oh, you

506
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: don't like Trump. I'm like, I watched all the apprentices.

507
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: I don't like them, but my friend I watched all

508
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: the apprentices and of course you were my one of

509
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: my favorite characters. Thank you. Well, you're you knew you

510
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: were going to win right from the start. I don't

511
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: remember exact stuff, but I was like, oh, she's gonna

512
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 1: smoke every single person. I was really sweet. Well, you

513
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: were good. I appreciate that. Who was the judge when

514
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 1: you were on the Martha Martha? Really? Well, yeah, Martha,

515
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: that's delightful for you. Yeah, she's you know what, Martha's

516
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: to plout a lot of or berneurial fields and ways

517
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: that people. I get that people have issues around her,

518
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: but she certainly is an entrepreneur. She has issues around me.

519
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: I don't really have any issue. Yeah, what would she

520
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: meets you on the show. I don't remember, well, I

521
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 1: can't remember exactly what the words might have been, Um,

522
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: you are pushy, you're a show off, and you're not

523
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: entirely necessary here at Martha Stewart living omni media, And

524
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: I don't know then I would have said, thank you,

525
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: thank you for the compliments. Yes, yes, yes, I'm sure

526
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: that ruined your life. I'm sure that ruined your life

527
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: and stopped and your drags. Yeah, it seems to you

528
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: were great. You were great on the show. So I

529
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: actually am very aware of who you are, and I'm

530
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: fascinated by your businesses. I'm fascinated by I'm really interested

531
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: when people do things. When I went into the store,

532
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, huh, that's a good idea, that's an interesting

533
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: I'm always interested in entrepreneurs, no matter what they do.

534
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: They don't have to be tech entrepreneurs. Okay, well, I'm

535
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: so grateful for you taking the time and I respect you,

536
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to ask your mantras. So I

537
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: got one. Noh's a complete sense. Yes, Oh my god, no,

538
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: it is a complete sentence. All right, thank you, No

539
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: problem with me. Well, she did not disappoint you know,

540
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: we had a little bit of sort of like back

541
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: and forth. I don't want to say sparring, but she's

542
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: not somebody who is going to just agree with you,

543
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: which I love, and I mean these conversations are making

544
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: us all smarter. Let's just be honest. I mean, she

545
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: has a point of view, she has an opinion. She's

546
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: not combative. You know, you'd think because this woman holds

547
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: people accountable, and like major multibillionaire tech people accountable, that

548
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: she's just gonna come and swinging. And it wasn't like

549
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: that at all. It was really evolved, intelligent, informative conversation

550
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: with a woman who is really she has. She yields power.

551
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the bottom line. And yet she's still,

552
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: you know, just a mom dealing with homeschooling. So keep

553
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: listening and keep continuing to rape, review and subscribe. We

554
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: have unbelievable success in the launch of this podcast thanks

555
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: to you. It's just proving the basic rule if you

556
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: love what you do, you'll be successful at it. Because

557
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: I love doing this more than anything else that I'm doing.

558
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: Just Be is hosted an executive produced by me Bethany

559
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: Frankel be Real Productions and Endeavor Content. Our managing producer

560
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: is Samantha Allison, and our producer is Caroline Hamilton's. Corey

561
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: Proventre is our consulting producer, with the ever faithful Sarah

562
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: Katanac as our assistant producer. Our development executive is naintre Roy.

563
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: Just Be is a production of Endeavor Content and Spoke Media.

564
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Sam Bear and to catch

565
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: more moments from the show, follow us on Instagram at

566
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: just be with