Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps in, and welcome to wogay F Daily
Speaker 1: with Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: let me ask this question this morning. Why is it
Speaker 1: that to the media, the Supreme Court leak of the
Speaker 1: draft opinion by Justice Alito is more important than the
Speaker 1: content of the draft that we all saw and read.
Speaker 1: You know, here's the thing. I continue to say this
Speaker 1: on wogay F because it is an independent show. And
Speaker 1: what do I mean by that. I mean that we're
Speaker 1: not bought or sold by corporate interests, right whose interests
Speaker 1: are ratings above the sanctity and the preservation of our democracy.
Speaker 1: You see, as I'm watching the news come out with
Speaker 1: regard to what is it that Democrats are going to
Speaker 1: do about codifying the right to an abortion in this country, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, is nothing. They're not going to do
Speaker 1: a fucking thing, just like they're not going to do
Speaker 1: anything about voting rights, just like they're not going to
Speaker 1: do anything about police reform. Just like as they can
Speaker 1: see and as was uttered out of the President's mouth,
Speaker 1: this is not where Republicans are ending. They are starting
Speaker 1: with abortion, and then they are going to attack every
Speaker 1: single constitutional right that we have been able to achieve
Speaker 1: over the last fifty to sixty years in this country, which,
Speaker 1: mind you, is pretty much every civil right that was
Speaker 1: given to everyone that was not six white straits and mail. Okay,
Speaker 1: So the reality here is that the media is complicit
Speaker 1: in the demise of our democracy. I say this all
Speaker 1: the time because they have an obligation right to awaken
Speaker 1: the American people to the truth, to inform them of
Speaker 1: the truth, right so that we have an informed citizenury
Speaker 1: that can make decisions about who it is that they
Speaker 1: want to choose to be representative of their voice, right
Speaker 1: of the issues that matter to them. But instead of
Speaker 1: us focusing on the fact that, for the first time
Speaker 1: in American history, we are not about the expansion of
Speaker 1: rights in this country, we are about the rescinding thereof
Speaker 1: That means that everything in this country is on the table,
Speaker 1: and we are still fucking sitting around talking with and
Speaker 1: two Republicans as if they are a legitimate, fucking political
Speaker 1: party instead of an authoritarian regime that is chopping at
Speaker 1: the bit to get power which they will never relinquish.
Speaker 1: Elections are a fucking suggestion to them when you start
Speaker 1: to idolize people like Putin and Orbon and MBS and others.
Speaker 1: You are saying all of the things that we need
Speaker 1: to know by virtue of your support for these people,
Speaker 1: you do not believe in the foundational principles of democracy. Now,
Speaker 1: I am the first person to say that America is
Speaker 1: an imperfect, imperfect fucking place, that there is nothing that
Speaker 1: is perfect or should be admired about our democracy. That
Speaker 1: we have better ideology, ideology and theoretical beliefs around our
Speaker 1: democracy than we actually do the practice of said democracy.
Speaker 1: But given that, even given that each generation has had
Speaker 1: an obligation to bend the arc further towards justice, and
Speaker 1: what Republicans have signified with this move and they're rapid
Speaker 1: Republicans on the Supreme Court, which they stacked because they
Speaker 1: stole seats, But they stole seats from people who didn't
Speaker 1: want to call out the thievery. So if you make
Speaker 1: no real big uproar about Mitch McConnell against the Constitution
Speaker 1: and denying a sitting president the ability to seat federal
Speaker 1: judges as well as a Supreme Court justice, if you
Speaker 1: just allowed that shit to slide, then don't turn around
Speaker 1: and be shocked that the very people who stole from you,
Speaker 1: right in front of your fucking face, then turn around
Speaker 1: and say that we're going to start checking off of
Speaker 1: our list how we turn America into an apartheid fucking state.
Speaker 1: Why are people acting shocked? Why am I hearing things
Speaker 1: from the likes of Lisa Murkowski and fucking Susan Collins
Speaker 1: about how dismayed they are. Bitch, sit down, go clutch
Speaker 1: your pearls someplace else. Because you see, we all knew
Speaker 1: who Brett Kavanaugh was. You know why, because doctor Christine
Speaker 1: Blaisie Ford told us who Brett Kavanaugh was, and Brett
Speaker 1: Kavanaugh told us who he was when he was screaming
Speaker 1: right in the face, spitting, showing any thing but the dignity,
Speaker 1: right and grace that an actual Supreme Court justice should show,
Speaker 1: which is what Judge Brown Jackson showed us a couple
Speaker 1: of months ago during her confirmation hearings. So why is
Speaker 1: it now that Republican women are turning around and saying,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I had no idea that these people
Speaker 1: would lie under oath. You supported a president that lied
Speaker 1: from the podium every day. You supported a president that
Speaker 1: cleared out Lafayette Square so that he could go and
Speaker 1: pose with a book that he doesn't read in front
Speaker 1: of a church that he doesn't attend. You stood by
Speaker 1: the liar in chief that asked for protesters. You know
Speaker 1: that First Amendment the right to assemble to be shot
Speaker 1: in the leg or in the foot. Can't you just
Speaker 1: shoot him? Though? So, why is it now that you
Speaker 1: want to turn around and you want to act like
Speaker 1: a fucking leak out of the Supreme Court? Is the
Speaker 1: biggest problem that we have, where in fact, the biggest
Speaker 1: problem that we have is fucking apathy in this country
Speaker 1: is the fact that we continue to support and watch
Speaker 1: a media apparatus that legitimizes the cult that is the
Speaker 1: Republican Party, that we're not talking about the fact that
Speaker 1: abortion is where they start and not where they end,
Speaker 1: and that by virtue of people like Marjorie Taylor Green
Speaker 1: using conjuring up the name of Satan right saying that
Speaker 1: these people, the Democratic Party and our leaders are pedophiles. Right,
Speaker 1: where do you think that this is going to go?
Speaker 1: It is going to go towards violence, and then they
Speaker 1: are going to justify that violence by saying that they
Speaker 1: are warriors for the Christian faith. And that we need
Speaker 1: to just beat the gay out of these people, We
Speaker 1: need to beat the progressivism out of them, we need
Speaker 1: to beat right them into submission. These are the same people,
Speaker 1: descendants of the same people that use the Bible in
Speaker 1: order to justify slavery, the torture and the terrorism directed
Speaker 1: at black people in this country that still persists. So
Speaker 1: why is it that they turn around now and the
Speaker 1: media is going to legitimize their shock as if they
Speaker 1: didn't know what the fuck they were doing and weren't
Speaker 1: complicit in it. I'm tired of the lies, folks, I
Speaker 1: really am. I'm tired of the lies. I'm tired of
Speaker 1: the euphemisms. I'm tired of the mincing of words. Republicans
Speaker 1: want one thing and one thing only, and that is power.
Speaker 1: And when they get it, when they steal it, they
Speaker 1: are never going to let it go again. Like I
Speaker 1: said in my article for the Daily Beasts with regard
Speaker 1: to Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the asking by Obama of
Speaker 1: her to retire, what I said there is that you
Speaker 1: do not get a second bite at this apple, so
Speaker 1: you better make the bite that you take really fucking
Speaker 1: deep and big. But the reality is is that Democrats
Speaker 1: do not have that kind of energy. The energy that
Speaker 1: we saw from Senator Elizabeth Warren. That's not the energy
Speaker 1: that we've seen come out of Biden and come out
Speaker 1: of Kamala Harris's mouth. Oh, the Vice President wanted to
Speaker 1: say that she is outdone right by the fact that
Speaker 1: these that this court would take away the rights of women.
Speaker 1: You have known that this is coming down the pike.
Speaker 1: You knew that this case was up. But then when
Speaker 1: we turn around and we say, what's the fucking strategy? Oh, well,
Speaker 1: elections have consequences. Well, guess what. We had a historic
Speaker 1: turnout in twenty twenty. So you're telling me that even
Speaker 1: though we had a historic turnout in the midst of
Speaker 1: a fucking pandemic before there were even vaccinations available, you
Speaker 1: want to tell me now that elections have consequences. I'm
Speaker 1: still looking for the consequences that insurrections should have. Dude,
Speaker 1: that does that have consequences? Are No? I just did
Speaker 1: a hit where you know we're talking about what are
Speaker 1: the issues that matter to the American people? I don't know.
Speaker 1: How about truth? How about believing and trusting and having
Speaker 1: faith in our governmental agencies to do what it is
Speaker 1: that they say that they are supposed to do. How
Speaker 1: about having faith that when you do things that are wrong,
Speaker 1: like violently try and overturn your country's election, that you
Speaker 1: are persecuted to the highest extent of the law. Except No,
Speaker 1: We're more concerned with folks inside of the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: that want to alert the public to what is coming
Speaker 1: down the pike as opposed to what insurrectionists did in
Speaker 1: broad daylight and face no consequences for We have report
Speaker 1: and report and headline after headline talking about all of
Speaker 1: the egregious ways that Donald Trump and his acolytes went
Speaker 1: to extreme lengths to try and overturn this election. As
Speaker 1: Don Trump Junior said, we have all the paths to power. Again,
Speaker 1: I say, where are the consequences for this? Who is
Speaker 1: been indicted? I'm told no one cares about the insurrection anymore, Damielle.
Speaker 1: They care about kitchen table issues. Well, your kitchen table
Speaker 1: issues won't fucking matter when you're being chained to your
Speaker 1: home because you can't get an abortion, when you're being
Speaker 1: told that you can actually work because you were queer,
Speaker 1: when you're no longer able to receive the benefits of
Speaker 1: being married because you're in the same sex relationship, when
Speaker 1: you are being denied access to federal benefits because now
Speaker 1: we're going after interracial marriage, when your kid is not
Speaker 1: going to be able to get the kind of education
Speaker 1: that they need because oh, guess what, we're going back
Speaker 1: to segregating schools that have nothing to do with equity.
Speaker 1: This is where all of this is headed. This is
Speaker 1: not hyperbole. And Democrats are sitting around staring up at
Speaker 1: the sky like they didn't know this was fucking coming,
Speaker 1: and as if they didn't know who they were dealing with.
Speaker 1: But how could they because they don't identify the villain.
Speaker 1: They don't call these people out. They keep trying to
Speaker 1: call them fucking in, call you into what and so
Speaker 1: that you can shit in the Capitol building again, in
Speaker 1: so that maybe this time the guilty and that you
Speaker 1: bill will actually be successful in hanging the vice president
Speaker 1: of the United States, Like, what the fuck are we
Speaker 1: doing here? You want to talk to me about kitchen
Speaker 1: table issues. I want to talk to you about places
Speaker 1: who were once democratic that are no longer, countries that
Speaker 1: are riddled with fear and anxiety and depression, where only
Speaker 1: the richest of the rich are doing well and everyone
Speaker 1: else is living in some version of the fucking Hunger
Speaker 1: Games meets the Handmaid's Tale. That's where the fuck this
Speaker 1: is headed. But once again Democrats seem to be caught
Speaker 1: off guard, folks. Coming up in today's show, I'm really
Speaker 1: excited to welcome to the show for the first time
Speaker 1: Kaivon Shroff, who is a Democratic commentator, and he's going
Speaker 1: to talk to us about the use of social media
Speaker 1: with you know, platforms like TikTok, Instagram and others, and
Speaker 1: how we get our message out and what it is
Speaker 1: that he thinks that Democrats should be doing to rile
Speaker 1: up our base. That conversation is coming up next, folks.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to welcome to the show for
Speaker 1: the very first time Kaivon Stroff, who is a Democratic
Speaker 1: strategist and commentator who I discovered on TikTok. But we're
Speaker 1: in the tweets together as well. Let's start with the
Speaker 1: disaster and catastrophic political climate that we are living in.
Speaker 1: You cover a lot of the same topics that I
Speaker 1: cover here on the show on Woke app and so
Speaker 1: I want to talk first about McCarthy this week. Kevin
Speaker 1: McCarthy pretty much is I think that Kevin McCarthy may
Speaker 1: flip flop more than a pancake. I think that he
Speaker 1: may flip flop more than like I do in the
Speaker 1: summer because the way in which these tapes that the
Speaker 1: New York Times reporters have been, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: drip drip dripping out. And I'll talk about journalistic integrity
Speaker 1: in a minute, because I believe that those tapes should
Speaker 1: have been released before before they wanted to use the
Speaker 1: contents of it to hawk a book. But what did
Speaker 1: you make of his reception by the Republican Congress post
Speaker 1: these tapes coming out? He walked into a standing ovation,
Speaker 1: right exactly. And I think it's honestly, it's nothing new,
Speaker 1: and it's just the latest example. And I know you
Speaker 1: talk about this a lot of Democrats constantly wanting to
Speaker 1: have this good faith change and engagement and political discourse
Speaker 1: and like the other party is so far beyond that
Speaker 1: and it's not even on the table. And so I
Speaker 1: think it's yet again, you know, the shamelessness that that's
Speaker 1: present there. And also I think it's it's sort of
Speaker 1: an indictment of the media because you know, they're also
Speaker 1: playing this role in not effectively communicating what is happening
Speaker 1: in this moment, and to your point, maybe even you know,
Speaker 1: playing a role in covering it up and perpetuating it.
Speaker 1: You know, I think we're having a crisis moment in democracy,
Speaker 1: but it's very directly related to an industry crisis that
Speaker 1: the media has been having for many years now. You know,
Speaker 1: I can recall, and I've said this before on the show.
Speaker 1: I can recall being on MSNBC walking the halls of
Speaker 1: MSNBC and people telling me, you know, Trump is so
Speaker 1: bad for the country. He's great for writings, though our
Speaker 1: numbers have never been higher. And so when you are
Speaker 1: faced with the I guess it is the like the
Speaker 1: siren call of integrity is what gets me to do
Speaker 1: my show in the way that I do it every
Speaker 1: single day. But when you are part of these you know,
Speaker 1: media conglomerates who are addicted to ratings, It's where they
Speaker 1: get their sponsors from, it's where they get their money from.
Speaker 1: What should what do you think they should be doing?
Speaker 1: Or is it the responsibility of folks who go on
Speaker 1: air right to bring to light the fact that we
Speaker 1: shouldn't be having both sides conversations. We shouldn't be referring
Speaker 1: to the Republican Party as if it is worthy of
Speaker 1: being an ideological adversary when they have turned themselves into
Speaker 1: pretty much a cult. Absolutely. Actually, I'm so glad you
Speaker 1: asked this because I'm in the midst of a big
Speaker 1: research project for a program at Harvard where I'm studying.
Speaker 1: You know, what I am going to argue is the
Speaker 1: shift of incentives for media in the past few decades,
Speaker 1: and I think one of those big shifts has been
Speaker 1: social media and the change in it's about integrity, but
Speaker 1: it's also about who's called to be a journalist. Like
Speaker 1: when I was in high school and growing up, you know,
Speaker 1: we were raised like that was a public facing role
Speaker 1: with like you know, almost a civic duty. And today
Speaker 1: I feel like the goal is to become social media
Speaker 1: famous and get a book deal and then go talk
Speaker 1: about your book deal on cable news, and all the
Speaker 1: incentives that come along with that aren't good for the truth,
Speaker 1: they're not good for democracy. And I think also they
Speaker 1: draw the wrong people into media and journalism and then
Speaker 1: you know, it perpetuates, So I think that's part of
Speaker 1: the problem. I also think, you know, the function of
Speaker 1: the media typically is to be that fourth the state
Speaker 1: that's you know, the check on our government and powerful people.
Speaker 1: And now you know, there's so much overlap in the
Speaker 1: media and elitism and power that who's checking them? And
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it's a difficult issue because I'm
Speaker 1: sure people that are on Twitter like us, you know,
Speaker 1: I've been following the backlash to that political story where
Speaker 1: they call Vice President Harris Kamala and you know, debating
Speaker 1: the sort of you know, institutional sexism and racism that
Speaker 1: might be reflected in something like that, and the fact
Speaker 1: that it keeps happening across organizations again and again, right like,
Speaker 1: this is not a one off, um, And so I
Speaker 1: do think that, you know, that's a huge part of
Speaker 1: the issue. You know, it's so funny because and I
Speaker 1: you know, I commented on the political story because I
Speaker 1: was like, what the hell is this? Was anybody you
Speaker 1: know at Politico referring to Mike Pence as Mike right
Speaker 1: when he was when he was vice president? No, they weren't.
Speaker 1: And so to have a title of an article that
Speaker 1: goes through several layers of approval before it goes up
Speaker 1: to have nobody question right like that that that I
Speaker 1: don't even want to say that it is casualness, because
Speaker 1: I actually think that it was done as a dig.
Speaker 1: How how did it land for you? Did it land
Speaker 1: as something that was done as a dig? Or was
Speaker 1: it casual writing? I think so. As part of my
Speaker 1: research for this product, I've actual been talking to a
Speaker 1: few reporters who I respect and asking questions like how
Speaker 1: does a failure of this nature occur? And how does
Speaker 1: it occur so often? And you know, I think they
Speaker 1: really are missing it to some extent, you know, I
Speaker 1: think that it's truly a people problem because that lack
Speaker 1: of diversity that you know, like you wouldn't need a
Speaker 1: protocol in place to catch that issue if you just
Speaker 1: had a diverse staff, because they would have the background
Speaker 1: and lived experience to catch it right away. They would
Speaker 1: see it right away. Like when I'm reading the story,
Speaker 1: I see it right away. When you're reading the story,
Speaker 1: you see it right away. So who isn't at political
Speaker 1: or whatever organization to catch that already? You know? And
Speaker 1: then I think it triggers this really dangerous cycle, which
Speaker 1: is that what form of accountability is there not one?
Speaker 1: So what does the public do? We yell on Twitter?
Speaker 1: We have a huge backlash and then the media feels
Speaker 1: attacked and because they don't quite get it, they want
Speaker 1: to respond and they want to you know, like I
Speaker 1: saw whatever some exchange, like some Democrat I think someone
Speaker 1: journalist from Politico called out that, you know, like Democrats
Speaker 1: had used Kamalaine an email or something like that, and
Speaker 1: the person that everyone's responding like, it's not the same.
Speaker 1: You're the media, you have a specific role. Other people
Speaker 1: have a different role, right, So, like we need some
Speaker 1: other way to check people other than screaming online because
Speaker 1: I do honestly think it's not that effective to some extent,
Speaker 1: Like I'm glad again called out because we need to
Speaker 1: educate more and more people to understand what's why is
Speaker 1: it a problem. But I do think that's missing into me.
Speaker 1: One of the solutions, in an honest conversation would be
Speaker 1: media checking each other. And you know, they don't want
Speaker 1: to do that. I feel like there's this complicity where
Speaker 1: it's like their team journalism against not against the people,
Speaker 1: I want to say, but to some extent it is
Speaker 1: against the people because it's like if I seed here
Speaker 1: that you know so and so from this media outlet
Speaker 1: did something wrong. The next time the Twitter mop comes around,
Speaker 1: They're not going to depend to me. But what if
Speaker 1: we all just did a better job? You know, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know, isn't that on the table? You know?
Speaker 1: I let's talk about Twitter for a moment as well,
Speaker 1: because I've been raging against Elon Musk now for at
Speaker 1: least two weeks, and you know, because my feeling is
Speaker 1: that Twitter, the advent of Twitter was about creating a
Speaker 1: digital town hall space. Right, we know that Twitter is
Speaker 1: also a very toxic place filled with lots of trolls.
Speaker 1: Some of the things that people say in the comment
Speaker 1: is saying comments and post they would never say to
Speaker 1: somebody's face, right, it is bio And particularly if you're
Speaker 1: a woman, if you're a queer woman like I am,
Speaker 1: if you're a black woman, that kind of hyper vitriol
Speaker 1: also happens as well, with Elon Musk saying that the
Speaker 1: reason why he wants to buy Twitter is to increase
Speaker 1: free speech, to have a full on free speech space.
Speaker 1: What do you hear when you hear somebody like Elon
Speaker 1: must talk about free speech? Yeah, so I think it
Speaker 1: goes hand in hand when I hear the sort of
Speaker 1: if we're pissing everybody off, which he just said yesterday,
Speaker 1: Right the left and the right, we're doing something right.
Speaker 1: And this idea of like some you know, catchall free
Speaker 1: speech definition that I think, you know, they have a
Speaker 1: very limited working understanding of what free speeches in this
Speaker 1: country is. It sounds like you're walking into a freshman
Speaker 1: political science seminar, honestly, and it's embarrassing. I mean, this guy,
Speaker 1: you know so much more. You should have so much
Speaker 1: deeper insight into these issues if you care. And I
Speaker 1: do feel like also there's this like urge that somehow
Speaker 1: society has again probably driven by some of our you know,
Speaker 1: non diverse institutions, to call people like Elon Musk or
Speaker 1: even Jack Dorsey a genius. It's like these people had
Speaker 1: one skill they have like a very technical, very sort
Speaker 1: of you know, hard skill. They don't know how to
Speaker 1: design social systems. They don't know about you know, politics
Speaker 1: and democracy and how to design a platform. Like they're
Speaker 1: just free wheeling here. Like so, I don't know why
Speaker 1: we would ever defer to this group of individuals to
Speaker 1: make these decisions. And I do think that, you know,
Speaker 1: I tweeted out and like I was actually like surprised.
Speaker 1: I'm you know, doing a bunch of work and just
Speaker 1: was like distracted from Twitter for a little bit, put
Speaker 1: out a tweet saying, you know, Twitter's gonna get worse
Speaker 1: for minorities and women. When Elon Musk stakes over because
Speaker 1: of the things he said, right like, if you're going
Speaker 1: to stop content moderation, obviously things that were being moderated
Speaker 1: will stop being moderated. A lot of the things being moderated,
Speaker 1: we're attacks on minorities and women. And then the backlash
Speaker 1: thousands of comments. You know, I think it's so ironic
Speaker 1: because it's like why, why does me saying that drive
Speaker 1: you crazy? And also you know, like I know you
Speaker 1: use Twitter to get your message out. I'm using Twitter
Speaker 1: to talk to people and share ideas that like are
Speaker 1: on team sane, team want to get things done. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not even trying to like something like if
Speaker 1: a bench Shapiro or somebody's engaging me, Like, I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to engage that. I'm trying to like talk to
Speaker 1: my people who want to listen and have discussions and
Speaker 1: maybe disagree on some you know, things within a range
Speaker 1: of reasonableness. But you know, I'm not there to convince
Speaker 1: some quan On conspiracy theorist of anything. And I think
Speaker 1: there's also this level of white mail privilege in that
Speaker 1: like debate me meme of like you know, everyone wanting
Speaker 1: AOC or whoever to debate them. It's like, I don't
Speaker 1: know you a debate. I don't know you a conversation.
Speaker 1: Like you're not even doing the bare minimum here. You
Speaker 1: are yelling at me online like in response to something
Speaker 1: that it's not even addressed to you. So you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I find it very odd. I do think, and I
Speaker 1: know you know you're also on TikTok now, and I've
Speaker 1: been experimenting there. I think I do notice a little
Speaker 1: bit of a difference. You know, people aren't as willing
Speaker 1: to go as crazy or say, you know, as intense
Speaker 1: things because you're on video and you're recording it and
Speaker 1: you are sort of having that human element. And I
Speaker 1: think that's a very interesting transition that we might see
Speaker 1: happening more and more as to continues to dominate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, I do. I think TikTok for me,
Speaker 1: and I've been telling the audience here at woke af
Speaker 1: you know, if you aren't following on TikTok, you should
Speaker 1: because initially, um I will say I am older than
Speaker 1: the TikTok than the TikTok audience or who I perceived
Speaker 1: the TikTok audience to be. So when folks were like, Danielle,
Speaker 1: you should take you know, you should take pieces, you know,
Speaker 1: bite pieces of your show and put it up on TikTok,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, do you think thirteen year
Speaker 1: olds care about politics? I mean I did when I
Speaker 1: was thirteen, but I was a weirdo. So I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, what do you find How how have you
Speaker 1: changed I guess or maybe you haven't, or how have
Speaker 1: you adapted your Twitter conversation and like repertoire to this
Speaker 1: TikTok landscape? And what drove you there? Right? Like, you're
Speaker 1: at Harvard, you're finishing your you know, your your your research.
Speaker 1: There you're in like these elite spaces and circles. What
Speaker 1: drew you to a space that was deemed you know,
Speaker 1: for for teens and twins? Yeah, of course, you know.
Speaker 1: So actually it's very similar to what drew me to Twitter.
Speaker 1: So I went to Brown for undergrad. I then got
Speaker 1: my mba Yale. These very sort of elite I think,
Speaker 1: you know, like there is a bubble sense to these spaces,
Speaker 1: and also this idea that these tools that are taking
Speaker 1: over democracy should not be considered seriously or they're not academic,
Speaker 1: and I just fundamentally disagreed with that. So I felt
Speaker 1: like there was a lot of the time rare and
Speaker 1: really actually went to business school hoping that I could
Speaker 1: study how, you know, big datas in these civic tech
Speaker 1: tools could kind of you know, bridge divides and lower
Speaker 1: barriers to conversation, and of course it hasn't really gone
Speaker 1: that way, but um, that's what drew me to it.
Speaker 1: And then I got really interested in the twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: campaign because I was a big Hilo supporter. Um, I
Speaker 1: don't know where you were on that, but I M
Speaker 1: but you know, yes. But anyways, so right, like coming
Speaker 1: out of Brown, very liberal area, and all my friends
Speaker 1: online were like very different Bernie, and there was so
Speaker 1: much internet content because like that's the generation that knows
Speaker 1: how to make a meme and what to tweet and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. But I actually knew that there was
Speaker 1: this group of like fervent Hillary supporters, typically like older
Speaker 1: women who were online and a lot of people get
Speaker 1: their news online and they're reading it and they might
Speaker 1: not be producing content, but they're they're consuming it, and
Speaker 1: so like I want to create content that you know,
Speaker 1: they could resonate with and people like that. So you know,
Speaker 1: I just started putting stuff out there and eventually, like
Speaker 1: I feel like you learn, right, like what what conversations
Speaker 1: do people want to have? And it's the same on TikTok,
Speaker 1: like which I again think you know a lot of
Speaker 1: people that are on Twitter or older are very nervous
Speaker 1: about TikTok and you're there worsom dating I guess so
Speaker 1: found out right that like Facebook was funding Republican lobbyists
Speaker 1: to push some of that narrative. Um. But anyways, you know,
Speaker 1: I think like when I have my little cousins come
Speaker 1: to me with like something that's either like not necessarily
Speaker 1: true or you know, something they learned on TikTok, I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is a powerful tool. Um. They're people are getting
Speaker 1: so much information from here, whether it's good information or
Speaker 1: bad information. So I thought it was interesting to be
Speaker 1: on there, and you know, to try to put stuff
Speaker 1: out there. And frankly, you know, there's a huge incentive
Speaker 1: in that. The reach is insane, Like I it's so
Speaker 1: crazy doing Twitter for years, and I think I have
Speaker 1: you know, like one hundred thousand plus followers or something
Speaker 1: like that minus thumb given the recent days whatever, something happen.
Speaker 1: But you know, on TikTok, like I put out, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of a newbie. Millennial dams follow us. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, you get millions of views on you know,
Speaker 1: a video without much of a following, and so the
Speaker 1: algorithm and just the access is so much greater the potential.
Speaker 1: So that's what's pretty intriguing about it. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: find I found the same reason the reasons that you
Speaker 1: provided to when I was being convinced right um, to
Speaker 1: go onto TikTok and like really, you know, just play around.
Speaker 1: They're like, don't take yourself so seriously. You know you
Speaker 1: will figure out like your rhyme and rhythm. But see
Speaker 1: what is going out there. I was so shocked. I
Speaker 1: was shocked by, you know, the spiritual content that comes
Speaker 1: up in my feed. I'm shocked by the political content
Speaker 1: and how thoughtful it is, because I just thought that
Speaker 1: it was really bad dances and bullshit, right like, And
Speaker 1: I think that as we are seeing, you know, these
Speaker 1: spaces pop up if we are if we are committed
Speaker 1: to democracy, and part of being committed to democracy is
Speaker 1: educating the public. Then you have to go where the
Speaker 1: public is right. We can't just you know, say to
Speaker 1: ourselves and you know, like, oh, I'm gonna pooh pooh
Speaker 1: that and stay within my bubble to your earlier point,
Speaker 1: because then we're just talking to each other. I don't
Speaker 1: need to convince a bunch of folks at Harvard and Yale,
Speaker 1: you know, who are who are who are democrats like
Speaker 1: about what's going on. I need to convince people who
Speaker 1: basically stop watching the news or have opted out of
Speaker 1: you know, out of the political discourse because it's become
Speaker 1: too toxic. But if they see a sixty second or
Speaker 1: a thirty second video on TikTok, they're like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: you're right, you know, like it's something well. And also
Speaker 1: I think like two things, Like one, that's the reason,
Speaker 1: like I'm not going to be leaving Twitter no matter
Speaker 1: who's owning it or whatever, because we have to change.
Speaker 1: Oh good, I'm happy. And then second, you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's also like it's not just like about convincing
Speaker 1: other people that aren't in these places, it's about learning
Speaker 1: from them too, you know, like I feel like so
Speaker 1: many times on Twitter, I will gain perspective from whether
Speaker 1: it's a couple of hours that comment in responses something
Speaker 1: nic say or whatever, and I'll be like, you know,
Speaker 1: well maybe I'll rethink that, or you know, wow, like
Speaker 1: this is really resonating with people, and this other thing
Speaker 1: that I thought like was super important people cared a
Speaker 1: lot about, Like maybe isn't resonating as much, and like
Speaker 1: that's just like instant data and feedback. And I do
Speaker 1: think that like one thing, unfortunately, that Democrats aren't as
Speaker 1: strong again and like I love that viral you know
Speaker 1: video of that local senator for Michigan, but yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: go on, and you know that was going on offense
Speaker 1: in a speech in person. But I do also think,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a way to within the bounds of
Speaker 1: you know, reasonable discourse, operationalize these tools in a much
Speaker 1: more effective way, Like don't be just putting out pictures
Speaker 1: and graphics with like you know, bubble words and whatever.
Speaker 1: Like engage. You know, Republicans really do engage. And I
Speaker 1: think like, obviously they're doing things that I wouldn't recommend,
Speaker 1: you know, Democrats do that, I do think across the line.
Speaker 1: But like why aren't they superstars on you know, across
Speaker 1: social media. It should be. So you know, that's interesting
Speaker 1: too that you talk about the superstars, because I think
Speaker 1: that you know, I have all long been advocating for
Speaker 1: Democrats to take a page out of republicans playbook, but
Speaker 1: for good right, like, we don't have to make up stories,
Speaker 1: We don't have to make up lies. The facts are
Speaker 1: on our side. But hitting people over the head with
Speaker 1: your bullet points is not selling right. Part of the
Speaker 1: other work that I do is I do media training
Speaker 1: for a lot of democratic organizations, nonprofit organizations, movement leadership
Speaker 1: and what have you. And I keep telling folks like
Speaker 1: I need you to tell compelling stories. I need to
Speaker 1: hear anecdotes. I don't need to. If one more fucking
Speaker 1: person tells me that eighty percent of Americans are on
Speaker 1: the side on the side of row, I will scream
Speaker 1: because it doesn't matter that eighty percent of Americans believe
Speaker 1: in abortion when we're going to lose abortion in the
Speaker 1: when the decision comes down in June, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, no, go ahead, because talk to me
Speaker 1: about how you tell like, how you tell stories, how
Speaker 1: you're taking these headlines but you're not just giving people
Speaker 1: the facts, you're saying more than that. Well, also, I
Speaker 1: think there's like it's part of this conversation of the
Speaker 1: short term versus the long run, and I feel like
Speaker 1: Democrats are always like coming to this logic of like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I learned that whatever school that like in the long run,
Speaker 1: doing this is that for democracy. But it's like, we're
Speaker 1: about to lose the whole democracy, so you better focus
Speaker 1: on the short run because it's not tip for tad
Speaker 1: at this point that you know, if you do this
Speaker 1: in four years when Republicans control all branches, they might
Speaker 1: do it back. It's like we're not going back, you know.
Speaker 1: If we're not gonna get we're not going to get another's.
Speaker 1: And like, by the way, mid terms, Like I don't
Speaker 1: understand like there should be daily freaking out about what's
Speaker 1: going to happen in midterms one way or the other, frankly,
Speaker 1: because we need to win that Like it should be
Speaker 1: no question, no debate, Like and are there things that
Speaker 1: I think Biden should be doing? Absolutely? Are there things
Speaker 1: that the Democrats should be doing? And like, while we
Speaker 1: even you know, sort of criticize some of the tactics,
Speaker 1: Democrats are using here like everybody listening, go make a
Speaker 1: plan to vote for Democrats right now, you know, like
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter at some point, like yes, what I
Speaker 1: wish there was more energy, And do I think we
Speaker 1: have better people and better options to be filling some
Speaker 1: of these roles. Absolutely, but Team good and Team bad
Speaker 1: right now are so far apart, Like I can't even
Speaker 1: begin the conversation, you know, about somebody not voting, you know,
Speaker 1: and really not voting the Democrats, Like that's what we're
Speaker 1: voting on in midterms. You know. Somebody had said to
Speaker 1: me in a comment I think it was earlier this
Speaker 1: week on Twitter where they were like, you know, here
Speaker 1: you have Donald Trump, you have his acolytes like Ron
Speaker 1: de Santis who are coming up right behind him, who
Speaker 1: are savvier, right, but just as vile. And there's a
Speaker 1: bench of these people, right. The mini de Santis is
Speaker 1: that they have all around they are building a bench,
Speaker 1: right and have been. What is it? Why don't you
Speaker 1: think that Democrats build a bench. Why is it that
Speaker 1: I'm hearing right in the in the twitter Ville that
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders hasn't taken running for president off the table yet,
Speaker 1: And I'm like bitch, you're this is who is asking
Speaker 1: for that? And also like and again I do think
Speaker 1: like that is one where I'll say, like I think
Speaker 1: the media plays a role because why is that a headline?
Speaker 1: Nobody cares? Like who asked him the question? Like he
Speaker 1: probably wasn't even ready or response because it's such a
Speaker 1: stupid question and it's like game playing, Like we're not
Speaker 1: playing games right now, We're trying to save the democracy.
Speaker 1: So like, if you are a journalist and I think
Speaker 1: it was like you know, a pretty big outlet too
Speaker 1: write that led within whether it was the Hell or
Speaker 1: something like that, Yeah, you know, like you're literally just
Speaker 1: being a troll and you want people to click this
Speaker 1: and you want people to share that, and like, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Then like that's if first of all, I
Speaker 1: think we have to be a lot less giving. We
Speaker 1: have to say, these are how people are acting. Let's
Speaker 1: take them at their work, right, So if the media
Speaker 1: is ridiculous, we have to take them at their word
Speaker 1: and say, all right, well you want to be trolls,
Speaker 1: So then we aren't gonna you know, afford you this
Speaker 1: sort of level of grace and um, you know, this
Speaker 1: very deferential way we've been treat the media for so long,
Speaker 1: so I think it's you know, frustrating to see absolutely,
Speaker 1: But I do think another issue. I'm watching this Pennsylvania race, right,
Speaker 1: this Pennsylvanias Albania Senate race, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: in a different world, and I don't want to, you know,
Speaker 1: like get into the policy specifics necessarily, but just like
Speaker 1: bocusing on the architects and personalities that we're seeing, Like
Speaker 1: to me, Malcolm Kenyata would be a superstar in the
Speaker 1: Republican Party, like somebody with that ability and talent, Like
Speaker 1: they've got Madison Cawthorne over there that they're celebrating, Like
Speaker 1: this guy is like five hundred times better, smarter, like
Speaker 1: legit And why why isn't that somebody that like we
Speaker 1: can coalesce around it. And I think it's because people
Speaker 1: are so afraid to take a chance, to take a risk.
Speaker 1: But it's actually not a risk because we've seen I think,
Speaker 1: how you know, the same old, same old has gone
Speaker 1: and it hasn't gone well, and it hasn't excited next generation. Now,
Speaker 1: I do think young people, um, we're very vocal online
Speaker 1: but haven't necessarily shown up at the polls in the
Speaker 1: way that we should be to be demanding that credibility,
Speaker 1: and I think we'll do that level. You know, it's
Speaker 1: our future to inherit, and you know, decisions should be
Speaker 1: made very much with us in mind, and we should
Speaker 1: be showing up to make those decisions. So I do
Speaker 1: think that's a little bit of an issue for us.
Speaker 1: But I absolutely agree with you. I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: the way that Republicans focus on rising stars is not
Speaker 1: happening for us. And I think also part of it
Speaker 1: is because Republicans fall in line really quickly, so your
Speaker 1: rising stars are really willing to say whatever and do whatever.
Speaker 1: And so to the extent, that's the issue. Like I'm
Speaker 1: proud that Democrats aren't going to, you know, like just
Speaker 1: foot flop and say whatever Kevin McCarthy tells them do
Speaker 1: or whoever is you know, in charge and in control
Speaker 1: and apologize for this or not. But I do think
Speaker 1: that is one dynamic at play, yeah, Because I mean,
Speaker 1: when I look at the defensiveness within our own party
Speaker 1: with regard to the squad right, you would think that
Speaker 1: you would lift up these firebrands, these young people of color,
Speaker 1: and say like this is our future, and you would
Speaker 1: make them stars, right, instead we we we they shake
Speaker 1: their finger at them. Instead, they tell them that, oh,
Speaker 1: you're the reason why we lose on legislation, and I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: that would be Joe Manchin and Kirsten Cinema's job as
Speaker 1: to why we don't have things that pass. It is
Speaker 1: not these young bright stars that you're actually afraid of.
Speaker 1: But you see the right embracing the Lauren Boberts, the
Speaker 1: Cawthorns and MG and and Marge and like even like
Speaker 1: even for us. And I don't know, do you watch
Speaker 1: Rupau's Drag Race. I don't, but I watched the clips,
Speaker 1: But go ahead, Okay, it's okay, I will still tell
Speaker 1: you might feel like I'll still tell my story, but
Speaker 1: I think it's such a good analogy. Which is so
Speaker 1: if you remember our crazy primary we had like twenty
Speaker 1: plus people running, yes, brutpause drag Race, they managed to
Speaker 1: run this reality show where even the biggest losers, the
Speaker 1: person gets off season season one, you know, episode one
Speaker 1: is made a star. Like they talk about that person,
Speaker 1: they bring them out. They everybody knows that person's name,
Speaker 1: you know, And so why can't we do the same
Speaker 1: thing with the twenty candidates running for president. You know
Speaker 1: it should be you know, a win for everybody and
Speaker 1: part of a conversation where like Democrats are loving this
Speaker 1: from this person and this person had a great Bible
Speaker 1: moment and we celebrate that, and you know, this is
Speaker 1: the person that ultimately won the nomination. But this is
Speaker 1: our team, this is our party, and everybody wins. And
Speaker 1: I think that's really the model that we have to
Speaker 1: shift to. And it happens to sync with what's happening
Speaker 1: in the world right now, which is that reality teaming model.
Speaker 1: And if drag Race can do it, I think the
Speaker 1: Democratic Party can do it. Um. So that's I love it. Kivan.
Speaker 1: You must come back to willke f. This has been
Speaker 1: so fun and like, honestly, I think that people like
Speaker 1: yourself are absolutely the present and the future of the party.
Speaker 1: And I just I need for there to be more right,
Speaker 1: Like I need more more people, more energy, Like I
Speaker 1: want to see my TikTok and my Twitter feeds filled
Speaker 1: with people with passion and who are thoughtful about what
Speaker 1: is going on. Because I'm actually as the same thing
Speaker 1: that you just said about RuPaul's drag race and the Democrats.
Speaker 1: I think about people on television and I'm like, where
Speaker 1: are the next stars? Like we're still bringing out James Carville.
Speaker 1: It was also it's it's it's ridiculous. But thank you
Speaker 1: so much for making time you so much. Would love
Speaker 1: to come back and I'll follow you on TikTok in
Speaker 1: the meantime. Appreciate you. That is it for me today.
Speaker 1: Friends at wok f as always power to the people
Speaker 1: and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay
Speaker 1: woke as fuck.