WEBVTT - Part Two: The Dr. Laura Episodes

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the Doctor Laura podcast, but about her, not hers,

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<v Speaker 2>because she also has one, but it's not about her,

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<v Speaker 2>although it kind of also is. I'm Robert Evans. This

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<v Speaker 2>is a show about bad people. Jamie. Welcome back to

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<v Speaker 2>the program. How are you doing today? Are you feeling?

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you?

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<v Speaker 3>I've been on the edge of my seat. I'm wondering.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, like, maybe I'm she seems litigious? Does that

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<v Speaker 3>feel right? You know?

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<v Speaker 2>I could. She's got a lawsuit that she made in here.

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<v Speaker 2>She's got She's had at least one that was unreasonable,

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<v Speaker 2>but she lost and gave up. She will be talking

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<v Speaker 2>about a very reasonable over the revenge porn that gets

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<v Speaker 2>posted of her. Yes, so uh yeah, that one, although

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't go her way either, So she has a

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<v Speaker 2>bad the law.

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<v Speaker 4>I guess even evil people can be angry about revenge.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I think we're being pretty fair to

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<v Speaker 2>her in here. I'm certainly accusing her of anything other

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<v Speaker 2>than being a kind of media person that I think

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<v Speaker 2>is unethical. But I still have that right. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>before we get into the story, Jamie, mm hmmm, is

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<v Speaker 2>not who I meant to call out there. Sophie has

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<v Speaker 2>a thing to plug.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, it's hard for we don't have our cameras on.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh huh.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. In the last couple of days since we recorded this,

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<v Speaker 1>my family lost our family dog, Sydney, who had been

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<v Speaker 1>with us for fourteen years, and she was immensely important

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<v Speaker 1>to us. She was my mom's soul dog and just

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<v Speaker 1>a light and she We're fortunate enough that she got

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<v Speaker 1>wonderful end of life care from our vet, but most

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<v Speaker 1>people can't afford venary care these days because it's so expensive.

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<v Speaker 1>And I just wanted to plug an organization my vet

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<v Speaker 1>recommends that does work to help people with who need

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<v Speaker 1>hardship support during times when their pets might need life

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<v Speaker 1>saving or life enhancing treatments, and that is Paisley Pause

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<v Speaker 1>dot org. That's p A I S L E Y

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<v Speaker 1>p A W S dot org. The dot org is important.

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<v Speaker 1>There's another thing that's dot com, not dot com, it's

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<v Speaker 1>dot org. So I just wanted to plug that. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>Sydney was really special. So hug your best comparison.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, your pets the nice food this time. Yeah, don't

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<v Speaker 2>economize on your pets.

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<v Speaker 3>Buy them the nice food. Go into debt for your.

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<v Speaker 2>Pets, go into debt for your pets. You know, rob

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<v Speaker 2>a bank for your pat A lot of people are

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<v Speaker 2>doing it this day these days, and it seems like

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<v Speaker 2>there's no consequences. So you know, watch the movie, watch

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<v Speaker 2>like the first two thirds of Heat, and like the

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<v Speaker 2>first I watch like the right six minutes of Reservoir Dogs,

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<v Speaker 2>and then don't watch anything else from those movies and

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<v Speaker 2>go go rop a bank.

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<v Speaker 1>I would just say Cidy was definitely pro crimes.

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<v Speaker 2>There you go, speaking of crimes.

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<v Speaker 4>John Wick an entire you know, crime in the Interest

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<v Speaker 4>of Dogs franchise.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, people love committing dog crimes. It's not those kinds.

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<v Speaker 2>They hate a specific kind of dog crimes.

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<v Speaker 3>Going half of Dogs, Paisleypaws dot Org.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're back. We're warmed up, We're ready to you.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's lock it in, let's lock it out. When

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<v Speaker 2>we left off with this story, Bill Balance again spelled

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<v Speaker 2>with two l's, which my spell corrector will never accept.

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<v Speaker 2>Made me angry. Microsoftware is a crime against humanity. Bill

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<v Speaker 2>Gates should be too, a Volcana.

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<v Speaker 3>Clippi will Clippi will pay.

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<v Speaker 2>They all should pay. Bill Ballance and Laura Slashinger had

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<v Speaker 2>just met over the radio waves, and he had had

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<v Speaker 2>his producer get her number because Bill is a giant creep. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously this is the entertainment industry. He is definitely trying

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<v Speaker 2>to have sex with her. This is not in a

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<v Speaker 2>lopsided relationship entirely, though the power imbalance is. But Laura

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<v Speaker 2>seems from the beginning to have been open to the

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<v Speaker 2>idea that like, well, this could be how I get

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<v Speaker 2>my foot in the door in the radio. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>a it's a it's it's it's one of those kind

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<v Speaker 2>of situations. And it's also worth noting Laura is at

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<v Speaker 2>this point an adult with a master's degree and a

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<v Speaker 2>marriage behind her, so that's a choice she can make, right.

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<v Speaker 2>It is unclear to me whether she called into that

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<v Speaker 2>show at the first place because she wanted to try

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<v Speaker 2>and make a name for herself in radio, or if

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<v Speaker 2>that only happened the way Bill claims it is. Because

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<v Speaker 2>Bill is going to claim that once they have their

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<v Speaker 2>relig relationship, because they are, in his words, dating, she

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<v Speaker 2>does not use that term for it.

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<v Speaker 4>The truth is, I feel like we have yet to

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<v Speaker 4>encounter a credible source in this.

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<v Speaker 2>Story, not one, not one good source on the life of.

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<v Speaker 3>Doctor Laura's really challenging because you're just like, every time

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<v Speaker 3>the new source is introduced, it's somehow less credible than

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<v Speaker 3>everyone we've met so far.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that's that's the right way this book goes, right, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the right way to look at this book. And

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<v Speaker 2>part of why I suspect, part of why I'm trying

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<v Speaker 2>to suggest that maybe Laura went into this with a

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<v Speaker 2>plan is because Bill is a liar, and he is

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<v Speaker 2>going to claim that he's responsible for her wanting to

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<v Speaker 2>be in radio. And I don't know if I want

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<v Speaker 2>to give that to Bill. Doctor Laura is among at

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<v Speaker 2>least whatever else you want to say about her, a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty like motivated, self directed, rational person. So I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>but but the truth will never be knowable here. The

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<v Speaker 2>day after he Laura calls into his show, Bill is

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<v Speaker 2>within twenty four hours at her parents home. He describes

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<v Speaker 2>her as having what he called a quote thousand watt

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<v Speaker 2>goal wing smile, which is not a phrase I've ever heard,

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<v Speaker 2>and he claims that he convinced her she was a

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<v Speaker 2>star and that she should get into radio. Laura has

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<v Speaker 2>backed up aspects of this. Here's how she described their meeting.

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<v Speaker 2>He came to my parents' home and sat across the

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<v Speaker 2>table from me and looked me in the eye and said,

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<v Speaker 2>someday you're going to be an international radio star. He's

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<v Speaker 2>in the business thirty five years and he's never done this.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is not a pickup line. We're at my parents' house,

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<v Speaker 2>for God's sakes. The closest to radio I'd ever been

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<v Speaker 2>was turning one on to get the weather report. I

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<v Speaker 2>had no interest in it, no designs on it. But

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<v Speaker 2>she does after Bill's call, and Bill gives her a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty full charm offensive. He takes her to dinner at

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<v Speaker 2>Musso and Franks, which is a fancy restaurant in LA

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about her future. Wow again, did Bill? Because

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<v Speaker 2>also one of the possibilities here is that Bill was

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<v Speaker 2>both simultaneously a creep who wanted to hit on a

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<v Speaker 2>younger woman and also thought she would be good in radio,

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<v Speaker 2>because he actually does like help her make connections in radio.

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<v Speaker 2>So I guess several different things are possible here, and

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<v Speaker 2>we don't really know which. But it's definitely gross.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, definitely gross.

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<v Speaker 4>But you know, in the interest of I don't know,

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<v Speaker 4>I feel like so many again, I feel like I'm

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<v Speaker 4>coming to doctor Laura's defense.

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<v Speaker 2>Fuck, but like she hasn't do anything I think is

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<v Speaker 2>wrong here.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, no, no, I mean I feel like this is like,

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<v Speaker 4>this kind of situation is the source of so many,

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<v Speaker 4>so many fraud complexes where I think that two things

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<v Speaker 4>are true here, which is, if this man is a

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<v Speaker 4>fucking creep and obviously I mean if she was.

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<v Speaker 3>Untalented in radio, like in a you know, ethically valueless sense,

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<v Speaker 3>she would not be on you know, still, she wouldn't

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<v Speaker 3>still be working.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So he wasn't wrong, but he was a pervert.

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<v Speaker 2>He wasn't wrong, but he was a pervert. And again,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of unknowables here. But Laura becomes a

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<v Speaker 2>fixture at the station after this. She's initially just like

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<v Speaker 2>a very regular guest. She makes I think some money

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<v Speaker 2>doing that, you know, especially when they like bring her

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<v Speaker 2>in to help basically co host episodes or segments. And

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<v Speaker 2>she gets as a result of this, because she's on

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<v Speaker 2>Bill's show so much, she gets offers I think initially

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<v Speaker 2>from the same station, she gets like little jobs. Right

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<v Speaker 2>she's not given her own show right away, but I

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<v Speaker 2>think she's doing some guest hosting here and there. She's

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<v Speaker 2>doing some like announcing she's doing some just whatever kind

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<v Speaker 2>of vo they need, right. Bill describes her as not

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<v Speaker 2>a natural someone who has mike fright, like is as

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<v Speaker 2>scared of the microphone to start, but he says she

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<v Speaker 2>develops skill and keeps with it. She certainly gets good

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<v Speaker 2>at it. However, you know she started. Where Bill and

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<v Speaker 2>Laura's stories largely diverge is that he says they started

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<v Speaker 2>sleeping together and we're in a relationship for more than

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<v Speaker 2>two years. Laura sort of denies this, but not fully.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was the reason why Bill, as I said earlier,

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<v Speaker 2>leaks a bunch of her naked photos to a porn website,

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<v Speaker 2>which he does in exchange for fifty thousand dollars. Is god, Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>he's a real creep. I don't know. I don't actually

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<v Speaker 2>know how Richie was. You know, these guys also snorted

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<v Speaker 2>all their money back then, so like it's entirely this

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<v Speaker 2>man was. This man was a huge radio shock jock

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen seventy one. All of that money went right

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<v Speaker 2>into cocaine. Good lord, Yeah, so you kind of have

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<v Speaker 2>to go back and forth here. I generally prefer to

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<v Speaker 2>build on this stuff. But like Bill sells naked photos

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<v Speaker 2>of her and also like letters and notes that she

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<v Speaker 2>had written him and signed him, like while they were

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<v Speaker 2>seeing each other. Right, He provides all of that to

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<v Speaker 2>this porn website and to I think when it becomes

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<v Speaker 2>a big deal, but a couple other places, because she

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<v Speaker 2>like ignores him at a party and denies that they

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<v Speaker 2>ever saw each other, and so he's like, I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 2>be a piece of shit, make money and also get

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<v Speaker 2>you know, get back at her for not respecting me

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever. Like that's the full context of why that

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<v Speaker 2>stuff comes out. And it is here that I should

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<v Speaker 2>note that while doctor Laura was an adult when this

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<v Speaker 2>relationship started with a master's degree, Bill was the same

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<v Speaker 2>age as her dad and had served, in fact in

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<v Speaker 2>World War Two with her dad, but as a captain

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<v Speaker 2>so well not like in the same unit, but like

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<v Speaker 2>that's the age gap, right he is, this is like creepy. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>uh huh. I just want to make just really don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to be sleeping on the details of how bad

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<v Speaker 2>a person Bill is. I just also don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>like infantilize her in this Yeah yeah, the way he

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<v Speaker 2>describes their relationship, she slept with him to get her

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<v Speaker 2>foot in the door, and then abandon him as soon

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<v Speaker 2>as she didn't need him anymore. And if that's what happens,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm glad Bill's angry about it, right, I'll say that much,

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<v Speaker 2>because he definitely sucks.

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<v Speaker 3>This is also a ship piece of shit, pieces of

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<v Speaker 3>shit begetting pieces of shit, but a beautiful story.

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<v Speaker 2>I've heard people allege that like he was basically grooming her.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, that's certainly a way to look at it.

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<v Speaker 2>Laura does not describe it that way, but we'll never know.

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<v Speaker 5>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>In addition to being a massive creep, Bill gives Laura

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<v Speaker 2>some career advice that's going to prove crucial. He wants

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<v Speaker 2>her to and this is kind of the biggest impact

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<v Speaker 2>he actually does have other than like giving her a

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<v Speaker 2>leg up into the business. Is he says, Hey, this

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<v Speaker 2>having like professional medical advice people professional therapists and counselors

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<v Speaker 2>give advice on people's fucked up lives is going to

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<v Speaker 2>be a bigger business and entertainment in the future. You've

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<v Speaker 2>already got like this scientific academic background's Laura is at

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<v Speaker 2>this point working on her PhD. You should get your

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<v Speaker 2>counseling certificate, right, so you actually have a professional credential

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<v Speaker 2>to bring to the table because there's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of money in that. And Laura commits to

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<v Speaker 2>doing this now. Now, doing this is going to take

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<v Speaker 2>like two thousands hours of supervised counseling work. But if

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<v Speaker 2>he does it, Bill says he'll make her a regular

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<v Speaker 2>like every week on the show, which is like a job.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know how much it pays, but it's like

0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:09.040
<v Speaker 2>that's like paying work in the radio, right. Laura Gradually,

0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.319
<v Speaker 2>as she's doing this, because she's on the show occasionally,

0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.160
<v Speaker 2>she's doing some guest bits, and she's she's getting her

0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.680
<v Speaker 2>counselor's license, she starts to kind of like hone in

0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:23.520
<v Speaker 2>on what her personality on air ought to be, right,

0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.920
<v Speaker 2>and she notices she has times when she's nice and

0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:30.000
<v Speaker 2>she's like listening to people and she's empathetic, and she

0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.560
<v Speaker 2>has times because she's kind of an angry person when

0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.840
<v Speaker 2>she snaps at people and she's just like really shitting

0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:36.720
<v Speaker 2>to them. And she starts to learn over the couple

0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.440
<v Speaker 2>of years that she's doing this, people respond to me

0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:40.600
<v Speaker 2>being mean, right.

0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:44.160
<v Speaker 3>People love when and this is a clinical thing. People

0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:45.640
<v Speaker 3>love when mommy yells at.

0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Them uh huh, they do do.

0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:50.760
<v Speaker 3>They love that shit so hard.

0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.319
<v Speaker 2>They love that shit to a degree that may damn

0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:59.840
<v Speaker 2>the whole species. One day, in the unauthorized biography, Doctor Christie,

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Bill's first on air medical expert. This is the guy

0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Bill's working with before Laura comes in. He says that

0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.600
<v Speaker 2>he gave Laura the advice to channel her angry Italian

0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:14.760
<v Speaker 2>ancestry into her show, okay, and that Laura resisted this,

0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.000
<v Speaker 2>and so Bill had to make an appeal to doctor

0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:20.120
<v Speaker 2>Christie's authority. And this is how Vicky writes it. The

0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:21.760
<v Speaker 2>only thing I could think to say was that he

0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:25.080
<v Speaker 2>has impeccable credentials, continued balance, He's done so much more.

0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.559
<v Speaker 2>He was senior advisor to the Shah of Iran. It's

0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.040
<v Speaker 2>spent several years in the Middle East. He was a

0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.120
<v Speaker 2>senior analyst for the Rand Corporation. I said, he's lived

0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:34.960
<v Speaker 2>a longer life for you. So there's more to talk

0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:36.600
<v Speaker 2>about in the introduction.

0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 3>Wow, what a sentence.

0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.839
<v Speaker 2>So I love that. Look, you should really trust this man.

0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.600
<v Speaker 2>He advised the Shah of Iran. You know how well

0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:46.840
<v Speaker 2>that job went for him.

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:51.280
<v Speaker 4>God, and the fact that the Rand Corporation is like

0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:52.240
<v Speaker 4>number two.

0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, coming onto this show to help us sort out

0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:59.120
<v Speaker 2>your personal problems. The psychiatrist who told the czar he

0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:04.760
<v Speaker 2>definitely die in a basement. Good stuff. So, while she's

0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 2>working on her counselor certificate, Laura continued her studies at Columbia,

0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.880
<v Speaker 2>getting a PhD in nineteen seventy four, which allowed her

0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.920
<v Speaker 2>to identify as doctor Laura Slashinger both in advertisements for

0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.560
<v Speaker 2>her counseling business and on air. She would call herself

0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.440
<v Speaker 2>doctor and then describe herself as a therapist or a

0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.120
<v Speaker 2>relationship expert, et cetera. And this is something that a

0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.400
<v Speaker 2>lot of people might have led them to believe that

0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:32.120
<v Speaker 2>her doctorate was medical or in any way relevant to

0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:33.800
<v Speaker 2>providing relationship with her.

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 3>Rift is love this, It's a classic.

0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 2>It's a classic. She gets away with it forever. She

0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 2>is also going to attack colleagues who do the exact

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 2>same thing in a way that is so vicious and like,

0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 2>but also the dedication she puts to it shows that, like, oh,

0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:54.560
<v Speaker 2>she knows that this is her weakness, right, she knows

0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.560
<v Speaker 2>that doctor Laura is way more marketable than Laura, right,

0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.760
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, it's it's cool. It's cool that she understands

0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.920
<v Speaker 2>this and recognizes that she has to attempt to nuke

0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.880
<v Speaker 2>everyone else who does the same thing in order to

0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:12.080
<v Speaker 2>protect her position. Here in the late nineteen seventies, while

0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.800
<v Speaker 2>Laura is starting her career and is now a doctor,

0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.240
<v Speaker 2>her parents get divorced, and right around the same time,

0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.400
<v Speaker 2>she cuts Bill off, breaks things off with him, and

0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:25.560
<v Speaker 2>starts going independent. This seems to have been partly inspired

0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.040
<v Speaker 2>by the fact that she met Lewis Bishop, a fellow

0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 2>teacher at USC and a married man with three children,

0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:35.600
<v Speaker 2>the youngest of whom was thirteen. Laura, intrigued by his

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:39.880
<v Speaker 2>sexy shoulders, started hitting on him. She that's her words. Look,

0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm not I don't know Leu Bishop's shoulders are not

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:43.840
<v Speaker 2>mine to comment on.

0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:44.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.360
<v Speaker 3>Maybe she was attracted to a jacket and she just

0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 3>didn't realize happened to a lot of.

0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.960
<v Speaker 2>People in the nineties. You've seen those jackets.

0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.240
<v Speaker 3>I know, it's like these are we're talking, I mean,

0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:58.360
<v Speaker 3>we're talking about late century jackets. These are it's the

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.400
<v Speaker 3>jacket you want to fuck, and you could save yourself

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.000
<v Speaker 3>a lot of trouble by just doing that.

0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.680
<v Speaker 2>And that's why you should never put on a jacket

0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.920
<v Speaker 2>from the seventies. People. I have a lot of people

0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:09.480
<v Speaker 2>get pressed.

0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.880
<v Speaker 3>One left their husband for that jacket.

0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.800
<v Speaker 2>That jacket is thirty percent human reproductive materials.

0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.640
<v Speaker 3>There's just something about him.

0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she hits on him. Now again, This guy, Lewis

0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.760
<v Speaker 2>has three kids, the youngestef who was thirteen. He is

0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.960
<v Speaker 2>in a marriage. Laura will later claim that she only

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.280
<v Speaker 2>started to flirt with him when lou was separated from

0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:38.160
<v Speaker 2>his wife Jean. Anonymous colleagues at USC claim she pursued

0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.480
<v Speaker 2>him while he was still with his wife. Right, And

0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.600
<v Speaker 2>obviously that doesn't mean that the blame is all on her,

0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.920
<v Speaker 2>but it does mean that she was fine with hitting

0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.560
<v Speaker 2>on a guy and fucking a guy who was in

0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:54.200
<v Speaker 2>a who was married with kids, and like that is

0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.840
<v Speaker 2>a thing she will tell people their scum for doing later. Right.

0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:58.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't bring that up because I right, I carried

0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.200
<v Speaker 2>to be a moral paraga on here. I'm just saying

0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.520
<v Speaker 2>she's going to ship on people for as.

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.240
<v Speaker 3>The same thing she'll judge people for, right.

0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, for doing In fact, we'll judge people for

0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 2>doing ship that's not even that questionable, right anyway, For

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.200
<v Speaker 2>unrelated reasons, Here's a clip from a call to the

0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.600
<v Speaker 2>doctor Laura Show, Jamie JP, Welcome to the program.

0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:24.280
<v Speaker 6>Hey, yeah, hi with Laura. I had a quick question. Uh,

0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.080
<v Speaker 6>I've been I've been seeing a Loma for for a

0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.520
<v Speaker 6>number of years now, and I found I don't know what.

0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.200
<v Speaker 7>A number of years means.

0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:34.920
<v Speaker 2>How do you get him?

0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.480
<v Speaker 6>Get him?

0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.080
<v Speaker 7>Okay, you've been seeing this woman for two years? Are

0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.040
<v Speaker 7>you shacked up together? Or you go drive to our house?

0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:49.120
<v Speaker 6>No? We we we we you know we we hang

0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.040
<v Speaker 6>out together with Dontne's and you know.

0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:53.800
<v Speaker 7>Are you shacked up or do you live in two

0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:55.360
<v Speaker 7>different places?

0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.080
<v Speaker 6>Oh? No, we live in different places.

0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:02.440
<v Speaker 7>Okay, good. Either one of you have minor children.

0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.159
<v Speaker 6>I don't she? Uh she has like teenagers?

0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.080
<v Speaker 7>And how old are her teenagers?

0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.400
<v Speaker 6>I'd rather not. I don't feel like comfortable to say that,

0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.840
<v Speaker 6>but I just don't want Yeah that's nothing.

0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.480
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I need to know how old they are. And

0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.119
<v Speaker 7>I don't see how that's going to be a distinguishing characteristic.

0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:26.560
<v Speaker 7>Everybody's already recognized.

0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:27.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, why do you need that?

0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:32.719
<v Speaker 7>They're both sixteen? They're twins.

0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.120
<v Speaker 6>Well, no, it's sixteen, seventeen.

0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:41.000
<v Speaker 7>Sixteen and seventeen. Okay, that gives you two years of

0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.679
<v Speaker 7>dating her. If you want to marry her, you have

0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:45.639
<v Speaker 7>to wait two more years until the kids are up

0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.879
<v Speaker 7>and out. They don't need to deal with you in

0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.040
<v Speaker 7>the house. That usually doesn't work out very well.

0:18:52.720 --> 0:19:01.200
<v Speaker 8>Okay, So hmmm h yeah, yeah, so that's that's fucked up, right,

0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:04.480
<v Speaker 8>because number one, this guy just does not even.

0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.200
<v Speaker 2>Because you know, what she actually did was get into

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:11.160
<v Speaker 2>a relationship with a married man behind like the back

0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.240
<v Speaker 2>of the woman in that relationship, and then the family

0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.960
<v Speaker 2>broke up as a result of that whole thing. Not

0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 2>putting all the blame on her either, but that was

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.280
<v Speaker 2>the situation she was in, right. This guy is just saying,

0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:23.879
<v Speaker 2>I want to date this woman who has two sixteen

0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:25.960
<v Speaker 2>year olds, and she's like, well, you can't. You can't

0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.160
<v Speaker 2>marry them or have a serious relationship with her while

0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.840
<v Speaker 2>they're teenagers, right, because that would disrupt them too much.

0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.160
<v Speaker 2>And it's like, what about the what about a thirteen

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.439
<v Speaker 2>year old in this situation you were in?

0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:39.639
<v Speaker 3>Honestly, she's a gigantic, fucking hypocrite. I'm like more interested

0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:44.440
<v Speaker 3>in how like listening to her operate, Like it's it's

0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 3>the same deal with Bill.

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 2>She like, drill, what's their age?

0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:52.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly, Like she's just like a shark looking for

0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:55.680
<v Speaker 3>an angle, and like if one angle doesn't pan out,

0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:57.720
<v Speaker 3>she will wait for him to talk two to three

0:19:57.800 --> 0:19:59.680
<v Speaker 3>more seconds and try the next angle.

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.560
<v Speaker 2>And it's it's just I mean, it's brutal her audience.

0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:06.040
<v Speaker 2>One thing they like is scummy men or men who

0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.120
<v Speaker 2>were you know, weak or something, And so you you

0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 2>want to first off, it's about getting him off balance, right,

0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.719
<v Speaker 2>the more things that you can needle him on like constantly,

0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.320
<v Speaker 2>like he does that this, or she does at the

0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.000
<v Speaker 2>start of the call where he's like a number of years,

0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.439
<v Speaker 2>like how many years? Right is it? Because that that

0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.080
<v Speaker 2>is the most important thing. No, but number one, it

0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.040
<v Speaker 2>maybe gives her something she can pivot off of later.

0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:29.959
<v Speaker 2>And number two, by starting it like that, by like

0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.680
<v Speaker 2>drilling on him, she's getting him off balance. She's making

0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.240
<v Speaker 2>him more nervous. Hopefully he'll say something else that she

0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.320
<v Speaker 2>can drill him into and how he said it right her?

0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.280
<v Speaker 4>And for like a first judgment because even when she

0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.520
<v Speaker 4>when she like takes in the information of two, I

0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.320
<v Speaker 4>was genuinely unsure which way she was going to go.

0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.320
<v Speaker 4>Just that whichever way it went, it was going to

0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 4>be a weird judgment.

0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, and I and I think it because it's

0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:58.600
<v Speaker 2>like of the issues to have. I don't think it's

0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:00.720
<v Speaker 2>reasonable to be like, well, you shouldn't marry someone when

0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.719
<v Speaker 2>they have teenagers because that will disrupt the team. No, you,

0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:06.439
<v Speaker 2>it's your responsibility as an adult in there to not

0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.679
<v Speaker 2>fuck up their lives. I'll agree with that, but you

0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.840
<v Speaker 2>marrying their mom is not necessarily that thing, right.

0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:13.800
<v Speaker 4>I feel like this is a part of the show,

0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.920
<v Speaker 4>I'm sure, but like by the time that interaction was over,

0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.520
<v Speaker 4>I forgot what, if anything the question was.

0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.120
<v Speaker 2>Because for some extent, it's about that constant feeling of

0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:30.880
<v Speaker 2>like hearing someone who is who who is together attacking

0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:34.440
<v Speaker 2>all of these people for being slothful and lazy and

0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.639
<v Speaker 2>like not you know, yea, these these symptoms of our

0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:41.720
<v Speaker 2>degraded modern society and all of its cultural law. Right,

0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:44.199
<v Speaker 2>that's a lot of what the people who like this

0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:46.919
<v Speaker 2>show get out of it, right, Right, that's good. I

0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.160
<v Speaker 2>think that that relates to the topic of question.

0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.879
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so she is like a manipulative hypocrite.

0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:57.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's kind of a Doctor Laura's story. Okay,

0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:02.080
<v Speaker 2>the Doctor Laura's Stora not a good joke not really

0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:02.480
<v Speaker 2>a joke.

0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:06.560
<v Speaker 4>Throughout the Robert, I gave you the pity laugh, and

0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:07.320
<v Speaker 4>I regret it.

0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:07.720
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.400
<v Speaker 3>I appreciate taking it back. I take it back. I'm

0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:12.320
<v Speaker 3>sucking it back.

0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to I'm giving great lesson to all of

0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:17.520
<v Speaker 2>the men out there, you know, because pity laughs spend

0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.200
<v Speaker 2>the same as real laughs, which is not very well

0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:27.399
<v Speaker 2>stop laughing. That was not a bad one. That was

0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:28.480
<v Speaker 2>a joke.

0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:31.520
<v Speaker 3>That was a real one. The first one mis fake

0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:35.480
<v Speaker 3>that one. Really, I'm sorry, Sophie.

0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:38.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to take joy of that real laugh and

0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:40.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to take it with me into these ads.

0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:43.280
<v Speaker 3>Oh wow, No, I'm party to something.

0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Here's Here's is coming after you.

0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:50.440
<v Speaker 1>I have bad news, which might also be good news

0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:52.679
<v Speaker 1>for both of you. I know, when each of you

0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:57.040
<v Speaker 1>is real laughing and fake laughing every.

0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:02.239
<v Speaker 3>Day I leave that. I've never let myself take that in.

0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:02.960
<v Speaker 3>Of course you do.

0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:05.159
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, all of you?

0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:14.600
<v Speaker 2>Huh and we're back. Ah. What a great time, What

0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:19.000
<v Speaker 2>a great time to be alive. Doctor Laura's world.

0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:19.720
<v Speaker 8>So Yes.

0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Through the early eighties, Laura got a series of low

0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:25.640
<v Speaker 2>stakes radio gigs at small stations. She spent years trying

0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:28.520
<v Speaker 2>and failing to break into the mainstream on her own

0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:31.919
<v Speaker 2>while in order to make money teaching at USC and

0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:35.520
<v Speaker 2>maintaining a private practice. Her first big break was in

0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:40.160
<v Speaker 2>September of nineteen eighty three with the nationally syndicated program Breakaway.

0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:42.399
<v Speaker 2>Like a lot of shows, they were trying to capture

0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:44.800
<v Speaker 2>the success Bill Balance had seen by bringing in a

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:48.800
<v Speaker 2>resident therapist to help gaucket people. Laura does well enough

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:51.359
<v Speaker 2>in this job that soon she is pitching her first

0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:57.919
<v Speaker 2>TV pilot for a show called Conflict Wishes. Uh oh,

0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:00.040
<v Speaker 2>if only Fraser would have loved this show.

0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:02.880
<v Speaker 3>Fucking dream. I mean, this actually would have been a pretty.

0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:06.439
<v Speaker 2>Good episode of Frasher. The idea would be that, like,

0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:08.919
<v Speaker 2>people would come to doctor Laura with problems and they

0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:11.320
<v Speaker 2>would she would give them advice, they would take it,

0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:13.439
<v Speaker 2>and then six weeks later they would come back to

0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:17.360
<v Speaker 2>discuss if it had worked. Now, this was not going

0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:19.240
<v Speaker 2>to be a real like even in the pilot they

0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:22.119
<v Speaker 2>do they bring in actors, which is not abnormal for

0:24:22.160 --> 0:24:25.040
<v Speaker 2>reality shows. But when she has a show later, she

0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 2>will lie about people being actors. So I'm going to

0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:32.280
<v Speaker 2>assume it would all of it lies. This doesn't sell,

0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:35.919
<v Speaker 2>Laura will continue to try to force her way onto television,

0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:38.960
<v Speaker 2>a dream which she does technically succeed at but never

0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:42.280
<v Speaker 2>really works out for her. She is a radio star, right.

0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:46.119
<v Speaker 2>I found a demo reel, which, to my best knowledge

0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:49.520
<v Speaker 2>dates from sometime in the late nineteen eighties to early nineties.

0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:52.840
<v Speaker 2>What stands out to me in this video is that

0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:55.520
<v Speaker 2>this is a Laura who has not yet become the

0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:57.879
<v Speaker 2>person we've heard in the clips that I've played. She

0:24:58.080 --> 0:25:02.840
<v Speaker 2>is less aggressive, more nervous, more focused on actually providing

0:25:02.920 --> 0:25:04.880
<v Speaker 2>some sort of useful feedback.

0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:07.440
<v Speaker 3>And she's wearing a fabulous brooch.

0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:09.480
<v Speaker 2>She is wearing an ice brooch. And I'm going to

0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:11.840
<v Speaker 2>let Jamie play some of this or Sophie play some

0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:15.879
<v Speaker 2>of this audio for me. Well, I women write an

0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:17.640
<v Speaker 2>apology letter for that.

0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Hello, Sue, I'll have one.

0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:25.040
<v Speaker 9>I want to know how I can tell my daughter

0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:27.120
<v Speaker 9>how far she can go on a date and win.

0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:29.160
<v Speaker 9>I began to tell her that.

0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:30.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, how old is your daughter?

0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:32.400
<v Speaker 9>My daughter is fifteen?

0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:33.880
<v Speaker 10>Has she been dating already?

0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:36.760
<v Speaker 9>No? Not? I want her to start dating, and I

0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:39.240
<v Speaker 9>want to know when to start telling him these things.

0:25:39.520 --> 0:25:41.359
<v Speaker 10>How do you assess your daughter? Do you think she's

0:25:41.400 --> 0:25:42.840
<v Speaker 10>a bit shy?

0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:43.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:46.480
<v Speaker 9>She's very shy, very very shy, and I'm afraid that

0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:49.159
<v Speaker 9>she needs to know this because I don't want her

0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:51.639
<v Speaker 9>to go too far and trying to win acceptance with

0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 9>the guy.

0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:55.959
<v Speaker 10>Oh so you're it sounds Yeah, I guess I had

0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:59.000
<v Speaker 10>a feeling that you were thinking that maybe for her

0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:01.760
<v Speaker 10>the sexuality might be a tool for making the connection,

0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:04.720
<v Speaker 10>or for communication, or for getting acceptance or approval maya guy.

0:26:05.160 --> 0:26:05.440
<v Speaker 9>Right.

0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:08.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Now, there's a couple times that are really interesting

0:26:08.280 --> 0:26:08.639
<v Speaker 2>about that.

0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:08.879
<v Speaker 10>To me.

0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:12.680
<v Speaker 2>For one thing, you would not find that, I think irresponsible.

0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:14.480
<v Speaker 2>That was how a therapist talked to.

0:26:14.400 --> 0:26:18.200
<v Speaker 3>You, right, No, it seems like she was like, uh,

0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:19.679
<v Speaker 3>I mean I think she is.

0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:23.200
<v Speaker 4>Oh god, there's so much Fraser. There's so much Fraser

0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:26.920
<v Speaker 4>low hanging fruit here. She is always like whether she's

0:26:26.960 --> 0:26:29.200
<v Speaker 4>doing a good or a bad job. She's always listening

0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:32.159
<v Speaker 4>very carefully. But this was like a non menacing, like

0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:34.080
<v Speaker 4>actually instructive kind of listening.

0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:36.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the question she asked number one, her tone is

0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:39.359
<v Speaker 2>not aggressive, and number two, she's clearly not using it

0:26:39.359 --> 0:26:42.720
<v Speaker 2>too needle, but to actually get more information, which she

0:26:43.640 --> 0:26:48.920
<v Speaker 2>seems to actually process and respond to rather than take

0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:52.000
<v Speaker 2>in a separate direction. Right, Like if this was on

0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:54.040
<v Speaker 2>her show, she would never say Okay, so it seems

0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:56.000
<v Speaker 2>like you think your daughter might be looking at sex

0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:57.760
<v Speaker 2>as a way to connect to people, which is a

0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:00.600
<v Speaker 2>reasonable and fair way to express a worry about like

0:27:00.640 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 2>a teenager having sex, but without like being judgmental, you're

0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:05.800
<v Speaker 2>just saying, I think maybe they see sex as this

0:27:05.880 --> 0:27:08.080
<v Speaker 2>and so this, you know, I'm concerned that it might

0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:12.520
<v Speaker 2>lead to this or that right in their relationships, as

0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:15.040
<v Speaker 2>opposed to oh, she's she wants to shack up because

0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:16.280
<v Speaker 2>she thinks that's how you get boys to like you

0:27:16.400 --> 0:27:18.159
<v Speaker 2>or something like that would be how Laura would express

0:27:18.160 --> 0:27:18.720
<v Speaker 2>it today.

0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:20.920
<v Speaker 4>Right, right, I mean, even the tone that she says

0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:24.639
<v Speaker 4>shack up with, like it's just this doesn't feel like

0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:27.880
<v Speaker 4>there is an explicit agenda to it, even though it's

0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:30.560
<v Speaker 4>like I'm sure that the you know, like advice she's

0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:34.120
<v Speaker 4>going to give is like fairly conservative, but like, yeah,

0:27:34.160 --> 0:27:36.960
<v Speaker 4>but it doesn't feel malicious in the way that the

0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:37.680
<v Speaker 4>first clip did.

0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, And it's because it's really not because at

0:27:41.320 --> 0:27:44.720
<v Speaker 2>this point she doesn't realize how much money that's going

0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:45.360
<v Speaker 2>to make her.

0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:50.080
<v Speaker 4>Right, Yeah, my therapist has a roommate, So that's how

0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:50.920
<v Speaker 4>I know she's.

0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:55.720
<v Speaker 2>Good, Yeah, it's interesting, Like it is actually good therapy

0:27:55.800 --> 0:27:57.840
<v Speaker 2>advice that she gives. Like later in that call, the

0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:00.159
<v Speaker 2>mother discussions that, like, you know, I made a lot

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:02.679
<v Speaker 2>of mistakes when I was her age in regards to relationships.

0:28:02.920 --> 0:28:05.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm afraid she's going to repeat my mistakes. And Laura's

0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:08.199
<v Speaker 2>advice is very responsible. She's like, well, you should go

0:28:08.200 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 2>to your daughter. You should open up about your own

0:28:11.040 --> 0:28:13.560
<v Speaker 2>life and how you feel about the choices you've made

0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:16.159
<v Speaker 2>and kind of maybe that can guide her to like

0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:18.600
<v Speaker 2>where you are right. And I like, yeah, that's actually

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:22.080
<v Speaker 2>good advice, you know, not just yelling at your kid,

0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:23.480
<v Speaker 2>not just saying you're not allowed to do this, but

0:28:23.560 --> 0:28:25.040
<v Speaker 2>be like, well, look, you know this is what happened

0:28:25.040 --> 0:28:26.760
<v Speaker 2>to me when I was young, Like this is maybe

0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:28.879
<v Speaker 2>information you should have, and here's how I feel about it.

0:28:28.920 --> 0:28:31.639
<v Speaker 2>I think that that's like responsible advice. It's not like

0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:34.960
<v Speaker 2>overwhelming or shocking advice. But and I think that's why

0:28:35.000 --> 0:28:37.600
<v Speaker 2>this doesn't work. Right. There's no big TV show in

0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:42.200
<v Speaker 2>people having thoughtful therapists consider their problem.

0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:44.760
<v Speaker 3>Reasonable conversations on television.

0:28:45.480 --> 0:28:48.680
<v Speaker 2>You want the worst people you've ever seen being insane

0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:51.200
<v Speaker 2>assholes to each other. That's why always Sonny's been on

0:28:51.240 --> 0:28:52.080
<v Speaker 2>the air for so long.

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:53.280
<v Speaker 7>Well, I really do.

0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:56.560
<v Speaker 4>I was thinking about this. I forget what show I

0:28:56.600 --> 0:28:58.080
<v Speaker 4>was watching a clip from it. It might have been

0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:00.960
<v Speaker 4>like that show Couples Therapy, but like people either want

0:29:01.000 --> 0:29:05.560
<v Speaker 4>to watch a reasonable person talking to the most unhinged

0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:11.080
<v Speaker 4>like or like most troubled patients imaginable effect yes yes, yeah,

0:29:11.200 --> 0:29:15.760
<v Speaker 4>or an unhinged therapist scolding like pretty well adjusted people

0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:17.840
<v Speaker 4>and nothing in between.

0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, sorry, sorry, Louis get it. Yeah yeah. Watch Weird Weekends.

0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:25.920
<v Speaker 2>There's a great episode on that with preppers that really

0:29:25.960 --> 0:29:28.840
<v Speaker 2>predicts a lot of our current or at least shows

0:29:29.000 --> 0:29:34.400
<v Speaker 2>the early stage of our current weird militia commact. Great show. Ah,

0:29:34.480 --> 0:29:40.160
<v Speaker 2>louis complicated man. Speaking of complicated people, Laura's life is

0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:43.320
<v Speaker 2>pretty complicated because while she is trying to get a

0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:46.320
<v Speaker 2>radio show and working as a therapist, she and her

0:29:46.360 --> 0:29:50.240
<v Speaker 2>now husband Lou have a kid. Lou had been a

0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:52.360
<v Speaker 2>teacher when they had met at the school she taught

0:29:52.360 --> 0:29:55.800
<v Speaker 2>at and had had to retire in disgrace because of

0:29:55.840 --> 0:30:00.400
<v Speaker 2>everything that happened with doctor Laura, and so he is

0:30:00.520 --> 0:30:03.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of like working as her manager for a bunch

0:30:03.400 --> 0:30:06.200
<v Speaker 2>of this period, I don't think he he is not

0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:09.000
<v Speaker 2>the breadwinner, to be sure. Right, it seems like a

0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:12.600
<v Speaker 2>lot of the family finances are on Laura's shoulder. That's

0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:15.360
<v Speaker 2>the feeling that I get. None of this is like precise,

0:30:15.400 --> 0:30:17.120
<v Speaker 2>but that is at least what I'm led to believe

0:30:17.160 --> 0:30:19.200
<v Speaker 2>by Vicky's book. Who knows how he's.

0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:21.520
<v Speaker 3>Kind of like he's mommaging her a little bit.

0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:25.400
<v Speaker 2>It seems like it if how Vicky's have how the

0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:29.360
<v Speaker 2>mostly anonymous people Vicky quotes like if that's accurate?

0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:33.560
<v Speaker 3>Right, there's so many despicable people attempting to tell this

0:30:33.840 --> 0:30:37.960
<v Speaker 3>totally bad because yeah, you can see a world where

0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:41.360
<v Speaker 3>it's like that is just a tool to make to emasculate.

0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:44.240
<v Speaker 2>No one who doesn't suck has ever been within thirty

0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:47.440
<v Speaker 2>feet of Laura's lensing Like that's the lesson of bits,

0:30:47.720 --> 0:30:50.640
<v Speaker 2>so will never know, will never know.

0:30:50.920 --> 0:30:54.720
<v Speaker 3>There's no Forrest Gup like character to give us insight.

0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Tragic. There is, however, a son named Derek with a

0:30:58.520 --> 0:31:04.960
<v Speaker 2>why sorry, OK, it's a spade spelled Derek. There's no

0:31:05.040 --> 0:31:07.040
<v Speaker 2>other way to say. Look, I'm not trying to punch

0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:08.040
<v Speaker 2>down Derek, but.

0:31:07.960 --> 0:31:09.680
<v Speaker 3>Your name is not Derek.

0:31:09.800 --> 0:31:13.600
<v Speaker 4>We support you and your I think almost inevitable.

0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:20.560
<v Speaker 3>You know Scott interests.

0:31:18.040 --> 0:31:21.800
<v Speaker 2>A SKA band. Wait wait yeah, d E R y K.

0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:24.280
<v Speaker 3>Thank you Scott.

0:31:24.440 --> 0:31:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Definitely, definitely he's He's got a name that would have

0:31:27.600 --> 0:31:29.840
<v Speaker 2>made him fit in the mighty mighty Bosstones. Maybe he

0:31:29.880 --> 0:31:32.640
<v Speaker 2>give him the idea to do that embarrassing album about

0:31:32.680 --> 0:31:33.400
<v Speaker 2>George Floyd.

0:31:34.040 --> 0:31:37.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh look, the city hasn't bounced back.

0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:42.880
<v Speaker 2>Scott has not bounced back from that album. No, no,

0:31:43.040 --> 0:31:45.360
<v Speaker 2>it's just something you can't pick it up, pick it up,

0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:48.560
<v Speaker 2>pick it up? After that? Wow, So I love I

0:31:48.640 --> 0:31:50.760
<v Speaker 2>love getting any chance to do a skapit.

0:31:51.160 --> 0:31:52.040
<v Speaker 3>Oh, so you have it.

0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:56.200
<v Speaker 2>A couple years after Derek is born, Laura is going

0:31:56.240 --> 0:31:58.680
<v Speaker 2>to make a major point of like her show, that

0:31:58.760 --> 0:32:01.480
<v Speaker 2>women who have kids should not have a career if

0:32:01.480 --> 0:32:03.920
<v Speaker 2>they can avoid it. That it is not fair to

0:32:04.120 --> 0:32:07.080
<v Speaker 2>raise kids and have a career at the same time

0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:09.840
<v Speaker 2>for a woman. And I want to give you an

0:32:09.840 --> 0:32:11.360
<v Speaker 2>idea of how she talks about this. I want to

0:32:11.360 --> 0:32:13.720
<v Speaker 2>play you a call from a one woman named Rosemary

0:32:13.760 --> 0:32:16.560
<v Speaker 2>who is on track. She claims to be partner at

0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:18.760
<v Speaker 2>a law firm and is trying to decide should I

0:32:18.760 --> 0:32:21.240
<v Speaker 2>get a nanny for my kids. Right, And here is

0:32:21.320 --> 0:32:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Laura's response.

0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:23.800
<v Speaker 3>Rational I'm sure.

0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:28.920
<v Speaker 7>If you were your kid, what would you want your

0:32:28.920 --> 0:32:29.520
<v Speaker 7>mother to do?

0:32:31.120 --> 0:32:33.160
<v Speaker 10>I would definitely want my mom to stay home with me.

0:32:33.720 --> 0:32:38.800
<v Speaker 7>That's your answer. I think you should never have had

0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:41.680
<v Speaker 7>a child. If becoming a partner and all of that

0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:45.960
<v Speaker 7>stuff was that important, you never should have had a child.

0:32:46.680 --> 0:32:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Part of the love of it is it's not important

0:32:49.160 --> 0:32:49.360
<v Speaker 2>to me.

0:32:50.080 --> 0:32:52.880
<v Speaker 10>I don't even especially lost my job, and I do

0:32:53.000 --> 0:32:54.560
<v Speaker 10>love being home with my baby girl.

0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:57.080
<v Speaker 7>Well, I don't know why you asked the question. Then

0:32:58.120 --> 0:33:00.960
<v Speaker 7>I feel that hearing a lot.

0:33:02.240 --> 0:33:04.720
<v Speaker 6>If I'm an internal voice, but also I'm hearing.

0:33:04.560 --> 0:33:07.120
<v Speaker 7>I asked you a simple question. If you or your daughter,

0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:11.560
<v Speaker 7>what would you want your mother to do? There is

0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:14.000
<v Speaker 7>no other debate other than the answer to that, I'd

0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:18.760
<v Speaker 7>want to be mothered. You said, why would you even

0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:21.280
<v Speaker 7>contemplate something different for your kid than you would want

0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:25.120
<v Speaker 7>for yourself. I care about doing much best for my daughter,

0:33:25.520 --> 0:33:29.560
<v Speaker 7>and unless you are a really bad mother, having you home.

0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:35.360
<v Speaker 7>Uh huh okay, having you home is the best for her.

0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Thanks.

0:33:38.400 --> 0:33:42.000
<v Speaker 4>Also in this uh, in this window, Sophie just had

0:33:42.000 --> 0:33:46.680
<v Speaker 4>to open the copy, was like, don't buy the feminist

0:33:46.800 --> 0:33:47.880
<v Speaker 4>fly you know.

0:33:48.360 --> 0:33:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Laura has a big lot of bits about

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:53.680
<v Speaker 2>how the feminists have ruined women by making them want careers.

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:58.080
<v Speaker 4>I just it's I don't know. I it's so frustrating

0:33:58.080 --> 0:34:01.400
<v Speaker 4>because it's like, does she ever at any point try

0:34:01.440 --> 0:34:06.880
<v Speaker 4>to justify the fact that she has a career. Is

0:34:06.920 --> 0:34:09.399
<v Speaker 4>there any exugenation as to why that is, or does

0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:10.200
<v Speaker 4>she She's.

0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:10.720
<v Speaker 3>Just the exception.

0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:14.200
<v Speaker 2>She lies for one thing, because she says, as a spoiler,

0:34:14.280 --> 0:34:16.160
<v Speaker 2>she says, we spent the for the first three years,

0:34:16.160 --> 0:34:19.879
<v Speaker 2>I didn't leave the house. That's not true. We'll talk

0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:22.520
<v Speaker 2>about But also that's three years. She's not telling this

0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:26.120
<v Speaker 2>woman because maybe her kids are both older than three. Right,

0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:29.840
<v Speaker 2>She's saying, you should quit your job. That could provide

0:34:30.000 --> 0:34:32.640
<v Speaker 2>so well for your family that your kids might be

0:34:32.719 --> 0:34:35.920
<v Speaker 2>taken care of. Right, but you could pay like partner

0:34:35.960 --> 0:34:38.879
<v Speaker 2>to law firms, not like a not a shit job.

0:34:39.040 --> 0:34:39.200
<v Speaker 9>Right.

0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:42.360
<v Speaker 2>That could be the path to quite a bit of wealth.

0:34:42.640 --> 0:34:45.160
<v Speaker 2>She's saying, give that up because otherwise you will not

0:34:45.200 --> 0:34:48.960
<v Speaker 2>be responsible parent. When what she did was continue to

0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:51.840
<v Speaker 2>work on being a radio personality while her child was

0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:55.640
<v Speaker 2>very young. Right, I don't think that's wrong. I actually

0:34:55.640 --> 0:34:58.560
<v Speaker 2>think that's very impressive. My mom got a second master's

0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:01.319
<v Speaker 2>degree in her late forties while she was raising us

0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:04.040
<v Speaker 2>so that she can start a new career. Right, Yeah,

0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:08.279
<v Speaker 2>there's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't if that

0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:10.400
<v Speaker 2>if she were to be honest about who she is.

0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:12.680
<v Speaker 2>The advice to give this woman is, like, you know,

0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:16.759
<v Speaker 2>be cautious of how you know. Once you start having

0:35:16.760 --> 0:35:19.080
<v Speaker 2>your kids watched by an eight, talk to them. Be

0:35:19.200 --> 0:35:21.160
<v Speaker 2>cognizant of how this is affecting them. If you get

0:35:21.160 --> 0:35:23.719
<v Speaker 2>a sense that you know the individual you've picked or

0:35:23.840 --> 0:35:25.920
<v Speaker 2>just this situation is harming them, then you may need

0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:28.960
<v Speaker 2>to reappraise things. But like many children have had a

0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:31.319
<v Speaker 2>nanny a couple of nights a week, especially if they're

0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:33.719
<v Speaker 2>kids who were older, and it's not. When I was

0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:36.640
<v Speaker 2>fucking ten or eleven, I would I loved any time

0:35:36.719 --> 0:35:38.759
<v Speaker 2>one or both of my parents were out because I

0:35:38.840 --> 0:35:41.239
<v Speaker 2>got more time to read books and talk to weird

0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:43.760
<v Speaker 2>adults on the internet, which was never.

0:35:43.680 --> 0:35:48.759
<v Speaker 3>Goes bad, unavoidable. No, it's always fine, and unfortunately it

0:35:48.840 --> 0:35:49.920
<v Speaker 3>can't be stopped.

0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:51.239
<v Speaker 5>No, not.

0:35:51.400 --> 0:35:52.960
<v Speaker 2>We have learned that it's not the same.

0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:56.520
<v Speaker 3>My parents being home prevented that. It just made it harder.

0:35:57.040 --> 0:36:00.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's obviously like these are, especially if if

0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:03.359
<v Speaker 2>you're an only parent, like it's a complicated, difficult thing.

0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:06.200
<v Speaker 2>But the fact of the matter is, however, you see

0:36:06.200 --> 0:36:09.920
<v Speaker 2>about that Laura literally did the thing where she didn't

0:36:09.960 --> 0:36:11.759
<v Speaker 2>spend all of her time at home to take so

0:36:11.800 --> 0:36:14.239
<v Speaker 2>that she could build her career because she knew how

0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:15.080
<v Speaker 2>much money.

0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:15.160
<v Speaker 9>Was in it.

0:36:15.200 --> 0:36:17.080
<v Speaker 2>And she's telling this woman not to do the same thing.

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:19.920
<v Speaker 2>I think that's shitty, right, That's all I gotta say

0:36:19.920 --> 0:36:23.919
<v Speaker 2>on the matter, right. Yeah, So, because this is such

0:36:23.920 --> 0:36:26.040
<v Speaker 2>a through line and her advice to women, Laura makes

0:36:26.080 --> 0:36:29.279
<v Speaker 2>a point to claim that she managed to be doctor Laura.

0:36:29.360 --> 0:36:31.239
<v Speaker 2>She says she only works like two hours a day

0:36:32.360 --> 0:36:34.480
<v Speaker 2>or at least during this period, and then again, she

0:36:34.920 --> 0:36:37.919
<v Speaker 2>didn't leave home for the first three years. Vicki Bain

0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:39.000
<v Speaker 2>is going to claim this.

0:36:39.000 --> 0:36:39.600
<v Speaker 7>Is a lie.

0:36:40.040 --> 0:36:43.239
<v Speaker 2>Although Laura had been teaching a nighttime graduate level psychology

0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:46.240
<v Speaker 2>course at Pepperdine University branches in the San Fernando Valley

0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:49.320
<v Speaker 2>since January nineteen eighty two, she took the fall semester

0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:52.000
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen eighty five off to prepare for Derek's birth,

0:36:52.280 --> 0:36:55.120
<v Speaker 2>but lou was left to babysit Derek, then two months old.

0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:58.359
<v Speaker 2>When Laura returned to Pepperdine in January nineteen eighty six

0:36:58.400 --> 0:37:01.080
<v Speaker 2>to continue her hour and a half long Tuesday evening

0:37:01.120 --> 0:37:05.280
<v Speaker 2>clinical practicum for psychology students, Laura also maintained a Saturday

0:37:05.280 --> 0:37:08.960
<v Speaker 2>private practice, again sharing office on Ventura Boulevard, and in

0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:11.440
<v Speaker 2>mid nineteen eighty six, when Derek with Derek not yet

0:37:11.480 --> 0:37:14.080
<v Speaker 2>six months old, she added another teaching commitment to her

0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:18.319
<v Speaker 2>work at Pepperdine and her private practice. So she's just

0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:20.839
<v Speaker 2>it's just like, does she does the opposite of what

0:37:20.880 --> 0:37:22.239
<v Speaker 2>she said? I don't think that.

0:37:22.239 --> 0:37:27.640
<v Speaker 4>That's yeah, it's like she feels she sounds almost like

0:37:27.840 --> 0:37:32.160
<v Speaker 4>a you know, stereotypical media like projection of like a

0:37:32.239 --> 0:37:37.359
<v Speaker 4>working woman of the eighties whose business is talking other

0:37:37.520 --> 0:37:41.360
<v Speaker 4>women out of doing that. Like it's just yeah, and

0:37:42.480 --> 0:37:45.600
<v Speaker 4>you know, I'll be damned if that's not a profitable

0:37:45.640 --> 0:37:48.120
<v Speaker 4>I mean, there is just an infinite amount of money

0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:51.720
<v Speaker 4>to be made in making women feel horrible about themselves,

0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:54.480
<v Speaker 4>because there's no point in your life where that is

0:37:54.520 --> 0:37:55.360
<v Speaker 4>not precedent.

0:37:55.520 --> 0:37:59.480
<v Speaker 2>It's just everything that. From what I can tell, laura

0:37:59.560 --> 0:38:02.120
<v Speaker 2>values in her life comes from the fact that she

0:38:02.280 --> 0:38:04.640
<v Speaker 2>was willing to spend less time with her infant child

0:38:04.680 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 2>in order to further her careers. Right, Yeah, I don't

0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:10.880
<v Speaker 2>think that's a reasonable choice. She makes a lot of

0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:13.840
<v Speaker 2>money enough to make sure that kid never wants for anything.

0:38:13.880 --> 0:38:15.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm not I'm not going to come here and say

0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:18.479
<v Speaker 2>that's not she did the wrong thing. But the wrong

0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:21.239
<v Speaker 2>thing is like pretending that other people who have that

0:38:21.400 --> 0:38:24.920
<v Speaker 2>chance or just to need to work, because everyone does

0:38:25.320 --> 0:38:28.360
<v Speaker 2>usually that they're being a bad mom, which they're not,

0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:29.960
<v Speaker 2>right right, right, which I.

0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:32.680
<v Speaker 4>Mean, especially in the back half of that like is

0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:38.120
<v Speaker 4>just oh, like it made my stomach clench a little

0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:40.160
<v Speaker 4>bit for the for the woman on the phone, like

0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:42.880
<v Speaker 4>because she that like soft defense of like I'm not

0:38:42.920 --> 0:38:43.439
<v Speaker 4>a bad mother.

0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:45.000
<v Speaker 3>She's like, okay, well then.

0:38:45.440 --> 0:38:46.839
<v Speaker 2>Well then you should be at her job.

0:38:47.400 --> 0:38:50.120
<v Speaker 3>You're like, oh god, they're just like a yeah, it

0:38:50.200 --> 0:38:53.160
<v Speaker 3>is a certain kind of hell.

0:38:54.920 --> 0:38:58.239
<v Speaker 2>Yes. Uh So, while Laura was by her own standards,

0:38:58.360 --> 0:39:00.319
<v Speaker 2>working out of the home and being a bad working

0:39:00.360 --> 0:39:02.719
<v Speaker 2>outside of the home and being a bad mom, she

0:39:02.880 --> 0:39:06.280
<v Speaker 2>was also being a bad therapist by anyone's standards.

0:39:06.320 --> 0:39:07.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's her job.

0:39:07.080 --> 0:39:09.560
<v Speaker 2>One of the anonymous sources for Vicky's book is a

0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:12.720
<v Speaker 2>former student of Laura's. So this is a woman taking

0:39:12.800 --> 0:39:16.399
<v Speaker 2>Laura's classes, and during one day when they're talking, Laura

0:39:16.440 --> 0:39:20.840
<v Speaker 2>basically says, you should become my patient at my therapy business. Now,

0:39:21.360 --> 0:39:24.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't think you're allowed to do that's a therapist.

0:39:25.280 --> 0:39:29.719
<v Speaker 2>I think that's probably not ethical, but I don't know.

0:39:29.960 --> 0:39:32.960
<v Speaker 2>It was. It was the eighties, right, A lot more

0:39:33.000 --> 0:39:35.680
<v Speaker 2>everyone is on cocaine, right, so it's hard not to

0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:41.720
<v Speaker 2>invite people to be therapized by a baby. Baby Derek

0:39:41.800 --> 0:39:45.280
<v Speaker 2>is doing more cocaine than a nightclub DJ could survive

0:39:45.520 --> 0:39:47.440
<v Speaker 2>doing in modern terms.

0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:50.839
<v Speaker 3>Baby Derek dug up some loops. Dudes, He's in the backyard.

0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:51.759
<v Speaker 3>He's good to go.

0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:55.000
<v Speaker 2>It's it's like how alien people talk about the Pyramids,

0:39:55.040 --> 0:39:58.840
<v Speaker 2>Like we have lost the knowledge as a species for

0:39:58.880 --> 0:40:01.200
<v Speaker 2>how to do as much cocaine as they did back then,

0:40:01.480 --> 0:40:04.560
<v Speaker 2>as Baby Derek and doctor Laura are all doing every

0:40:04.600 --> 0:40:05.200
<v Speaker 2>single day.

0:40:05.239 --> 0:40:06.600
<v Speaker 3>A long way the student truth.

0:40:07.160 --> 0:40:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, I'm going to continue with that quote from Victory

0:40:09.719 --> 0:40:12.279
<v Speaker 2>Vicky's book. It was her way or no way, the

0:40:12.320 --> 0:40:15.480
<v Speaker 2>said the student turned patient. Basically, I walked in and

0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:17.400
<v Speaker 2>she said, I want you to tape all your sessions.

0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:19.560
<v Speaker 2>I expect all my patients to bring in a tape.

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:23.040
<v Speaker 2>We use my tape recorder. We're going to tape everything. Basically,

0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:24.759
<v Speaker 2>I think what she was saying was, if you listen

0:40:24.840 --> 0:40:26.759
<v Speaker 2>to this over and over again, you'll get more out

0:40:26.760 --> 0:40:29.320
<v Speaker 2>of it. According to this patient, the tapes were returned

0:40:29.320 --> 0:40:31.000
<v Speaker 2>to her after each session and are still in the

0:40:31.040 --> 0:40:35.200
<v Speaker 2>patient's possession. They document some boundary breaking activities between therapists

0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:37.479
<v Speaker 2>and patient. Over the next two and a half years,

0:40:37.480 --> 0:40:39.840
<v Speaker 2>this patient met with Laura almost weekly, paying her one

0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:42.520
<v Speaker 2>hundred dollars an hour for her work. I guess she

0:40:42.560 --> 0:40:44.680
<v Speaker 2>took a liking to me, recalled the patient who added

0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:46.279
<v Speaker 2>and I guess at that point in my life I

0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:48.920
<v Speaker 2>needed the attention. She reeled me in and broke nearly

0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:52.560
<v Speaker 2>every boundary that there is. For example, the former patient said,

0:40:52.800 --> 0:40:55.400
<v Speaker 2>there was a young man she was seeing right before me,

0:40:55.480 --> 0:40:57.360
<v Speaker 2>so we would kind of pass each other there in

0:40:57.360 --> 0:40:59.440
<v Speaker 2>the waiting room. She would talk to me about what

0:40:59.520 --> 0:41:02.080
<v Speaker 2>some of his shoes were. That really freaked me out

0:41:02.120 --> 0:41:04.040
<v Speaker 2>because I wondered if she was telling the next person

0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:06.759
<v Speaker 2>about me. Then there was a very non newscaster who

0:41:06.840 --> 0:41:08.839
<v Speaker 2>was also seeing her as a therapist on the same

0:41:08.880 --> 0:41:10.799
<v Speaker 2>time I was, and Laura talked a little bit about

0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:13.640
<v Speaker 2>him as well. She asked me to babysit her son

0:41:13.680 --> 0:41:16.360
<v Speaker 2>on several occasions. Laura said, I don't talk to my sister,

0:41:16.400 --> 0:41:18.480
<v Speaker 2>and Derek hasn't doesn't have an aunt. I want you

0:41:18.520 --> 0:41:22.200
<v Speaker 2>to be his aunt. So that is a boundary, you know.

0:41:24.320 --> 0:41:25.120
<v Speaker 3>That is bad?

0:41:25.480 --> 0:41:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had a therapist be like

0:41:29.520 --> 0:41:31.960
<v Speaker 2>I cannot if I were to meet you out in

0:41:32.000 --> 0:41:35.080
<v Speaker 2>the world, I would like leave immediately and pretend not

0:41:35.120 --> 0:41:37.160
<v Speaker 2>to know you. Yeah, Like, I'm not sure if that's

0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:40.040
<v Speaker 2>the norm for everyone, but you are certainly not supposed

0:41:40.080 --> 0:41:43.000
<v Speaker 2>to ask them to be your aunt or your kid's aunt.

0:41:43.480 --> 0:41:45.880
<v Speaker 3>No, oh, I feel like this.

0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:49.920
<v Speaker 4>I mean, it's it's I wouldn't go as far as

0:41:49.960 --> 0:41:52.640
<v Speaker 4>to say that like doctor Laura's work is directly in

0:41:52.719 --> 0:41:55.680
<v Speaker 4>conversation with this, but like the fact that she is

0:41:55.719 --> 0:41:59.600
<v Speaker 4>a very like, you know, an increasingly public therapist figure

0:41:59.600 --> 0:42:02.680
<v Speaker 4>and then in the eighties feels directly in conversation. But

0:42:02.800 --> 0:42:06.000
<v Speaker 4>like how therapists were presented as these savior figures during

0:42:06.000 --> 0:42:09.319
<v Speaker 4>the Satanic Panic too, and just like how this was

0:42:09.520 --> 0:42:15.600
<v Speaker 4>such a popular and like still publicly somewhat trusted grift

0:42:16.680 --> 0:42:21.040
<v Speaker 4>despite however, much evidence, like recorded evidence to the contrary.

0:42:22.600 --> 0:42:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, I I yeah. Anyway, for years after this point,

0:42:27.480 --> 0:42:31.160
<v Speaker 2>Laura and this patient become weirdly remained very close. The

0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:34.319
<v Speaker 2>patient later claimed or claims that Lou was a helicopter

0:42:34.400 --> 0:42:38.120
<v Speaker 2>parent that he or helicopter husband. So basically, this patient

0:42:38.160 --> 0:42:40.799
<v Speaker 2>says Lou was there every class she would do at

0:42:40.800 --> 0:42:43.440
<v Speaker 2>the college. He was always around. He was like obsessed

0:42:43.480 --> 0:42:47.320
<v Speaker 2>with her success. And Derek was not there. So maybe

0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:50.800
<v Speaker 2>they even hired a nanny. Right. The good news is

0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:53.439
<v Speaker 2>that doctor Laura had enough time while raising a kid

0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:57.080
<v Speaker 2>to start up another business, this one making custom sweaters

0:42:57.080 --> 0:43:00.040
<v Speaker 2>for major film productions. And Jamie, this is where the

0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:02.759
<v Speaker 2>show goes in a shocking direction, because I will bet

0:43:02.840 --> 0:43:05.880
<v Speaker 2>you did not call that the sweater's Whoopee, Goldberg War

0:43:05.960 --> 0:43:10.640
<v Speaker 2>and Sister Act were made by doctor Laura Slusheger. What yes,

0:43:13.920 --> 0:43:21.400
<v Speaker 2>I just man when this was coming across this, Jamie,

0:43:21.760 --> 0:43:25.000
<v Speaker 2>there's an experience. I feel like I am the only

0:43:25.000 --> 0:43:28.520
<v Speaker 2>one who can understand what like pirate captains felt when

0:43:28.520 --> 0:43:32.359
<v Speaker 2>they like landed and actually like hit treasure in their shovel, right,

0:43:32.440 --> 0:43:36.200
<v Speaker 2>because that's how it felt. Reading that detail, I am floating.

0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:39.520
<v Speaker 4>Three feet above the ground. The slack from my mic

0:43:39.640 --> 0:43:42.040
<v Speaker 4>to my zoom recorded the only thing tethering me to

0:43:42.080 --> 0:43:42.440
<v Speaker 4>the art.

0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:47.520
<v Speaker 2>How how God fascinating stuff. At least one custom sweater.

0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:51.680
<v Speaker 2>I know, I know, I love it. It's glorious. She

0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:57.120
<v Speaker 2>also made some of the Lost Boys costumes and hook.

0:43:58.840 --> 0:44:02.200
<v Speaker 2>I just there's no way to be ready for that. No,

0:44:03.360 --> 0:44:07.160
<v Speaker 2>it hits like a like a like a cyclone of.

0:44:07.160 --> 0:44:10.960
<v Speaker 3>Woman's heart as an ocean of secrets, like amazing. Never.

0:44:11.719 --> 0:44:16.799
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't know which sweater in Sister Act that

0:44:16.920 --> 0:44:20.600
<v Speaker 2>doctor Laura made, but it was apparently for whoopee, so well.

0:44:20.680 --> 0:44:23.520
<v Speaker 3>I would be open to Yeah, someone started like a poll.

0:44:23.400 --> 0:44:28.240
<v Speaker 4>Some of the watch hook which one is which sweater

0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:30.080
<v Speaker 4>is giving you an aura of menace?

0:44:30.400 --> 0:44:38.400
<v Speaker 2>And anyway? Wow wild stuff. Yeah. So Laura is finally

0:44:38.440 --> 0:44:41.960
<v Speaker 2>syndicated on air in the mid nineteen eighties, but she

0:44:42.120 --> 0:44:45.800
<v Speaker 2>loses the show. This is another unhinged twist. The network

0:44:45.840 --> 0:44:48.720
<v Speaker 2>that owns her show is bought by the Liberty Lobby,

0:44:48.760 --> 0:44:52.120
<v Speaker 2>which was founded by a Nazi named Lewis Cartow as

0:44:52.160 --> 0:44:54.759
<v Speaker 2>a political action group for the far right, and also

0:44:54.840 --> 0:44:58.920
<v Speaker 2>published the newspapers Spotlight, which was dedicated to Holocaust denial.

0:45:00.719 --> 0:45:03.760
<v Speaker 3>Far less shocking to me than the sweat.

0:45:05.120 --> 0:45:08.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, Laura is number one not a fan of

0:45:08.080 --> 0:45:10.879
<v Speaker 2>people who deny the Holocaust. She is half Jewish. She's

0:45:10.880 --> 0:45:13.200
<v Speaker 2>going to become Orthodox Jewish for a period of time,

0:45:13.280 --> 0:45:15.279
<v Speaker 2>then she stops. But at any rate, she does not

0:45:15.400 --> 0:45:18.279
<v Speaker 2>thrive here. She quits the station not long after it's

0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:20.640
<v Speaker 2>taken over by the far right. We don't know the

0:45:20.680 --> 0:45:22.960
<v Speaker 2>exact reasons, but it might have had something to do

0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:24.680
<v Speaker 2>with the fact that they were really bad people.

0:45:26.040 --> 0:45:28.520
<v Speaker 3>So for you, doctor Laura has a line.

0:45:28.760 --> 0:45:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Laura had a line at least who knows about today,

0:45:33.680 --> 0:45:35.239
<v Speaker 2>But she did have a line then, and she gets

0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:39.240
<v Speaker 2>credit for that. Good for you, Good on you, Bill Balance.

0:45:39.360 --> 0:45:41.480
<v Speaker 2>After she leaves, maybe she was fired also, It's really

0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:44.680
<v Speaker 2>unclear to me, but in which case, less kudos. But

0:45:44.719 --> 0:45:47.959
<v Speaker 2>according to Bill Balance, she called him and begged for help,

0:45:48.040 --> 0:45:50.279
<v Speaker 2>saying that she would kill herself if she couldn't get

0:45:50.280 --> 0:45:53.239
<v Speaker 2>back on the radio. Bill is a huge liar. I

0:45:53.280 --> 0:45:55.719
<v Speaker 2>don't know that. That doesn't really sound like Laura to me,

0:45:55.840 --> 0:45:59.960
<v Speaker 2>but maybe maybe she did. The good news for Laura

0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:02.880
<v Speaker 2>was that things turned around for her very quickly after

0:46:02.920 --> 0:46:04.880
<v Speaker 2>this point. Near the end of the nineteen eighties, a

0:46:05.000 --> 0:46:09.319
<v Speaker 2>radio executive picked her to replace Sally Jesse Raphael. Her

0:46:09.520 --> 0:46:14.560
<v Speaker 2>primary competition for the role was a woman named Barbara DeAngelis. Today,

0:46:14.719 --> 0:46:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Barbara is a prominent author, lecturer, and New York Times

0:46:17.960 --> 0:46:21.040
<v Speaker 2>best selling author. She is a PhD in psychology from

0:46:21.080 --> 0:46:25.200
<v Speaker 2>Columbia Pacific University, which is not a real college. It's

0:46:25.239 --> 0:46:29.560
<v Speaker 2>kind of state approved but not accredited. It is sketchy, right, Yeah,

0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Now Laura is going to go to war with this

0:46:32.640 --> 0:46:38.200
<v Speaker 2>woman because she calls herself doctor Barbara DeAngelis and get

0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:40.760
<v Speaker 2>like she will complain to station management, and station management

0:46:40.840 --> 0:46:43.399
<v Speaker 2>will make it, like, stop Barbara from describing herself as

0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:49.320
<v Speaker 2>a doctor on air. Laura, doctor Laura has is definitely

0:46:49.360 --> 0:46:53.120
<v Speaker 2>a real PhD from a real accredited school, but it's

0:46:53.160 --> 0:46:58.120
<v Speaker 2>in kinniestiesiology. It is not in anything relevant to what

0:46:58.200 --> 0:47:00.520
<v Speaker 2>she is doing on air. It is not in like

0:47:00.640 --> 0:47:04.759
<v Speaker 2>therapy or in counseling. It is somewhat dishonest for her

0:47:04.800 --> 0:47:07.480
<v Speaker 2>to portray herself in this context as.

0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:09.359
<v Speaker 3>Doctor waah, but she still does.

0:47:09.680 --> 0:47:12.960
<v Speaker 2>It's actively dishonest. Yeah, And like it's weird because also

0:47:13.040 --> 0:47:15.920
<v Speaker 2>it's dishonest for Barbara de Angelis to coll herself and.

0:47:17.400 --> 0:47:19.560
<v Speaker 3>Let's find the most lyingest people.

0:47:19.760 --> 0:47:26.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, find so. I don't know, you can dubious truphy. Yeah,

0:47:26.680 --> 0:47:29.000
<v Speaker 2>you can feel however you want about that. But she's

0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:30.160
<v Speaker 2>definitely a hypocrite.

0:47:30.239 --> 0:47:30.399
<v Speaker 9>Right.

0:47:31.239 --> 0:47:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Colleagues at the time added that Laura was by far

0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:37.719
<v Speaker 2>the most aggressive person at the radio station. Any disagreement

0:47:37.800 --> 0:47:40.240
<v Speaker 2>or conflict with her was likely to result in weeks

0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:43.040
<v Speaker 2>or years of vicious shit talking. And this is what

0:47:43.120 --> 0:47:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Barbara says happened to her, that Laura basically becomes like

0:47:46.960 --> 0:47:51.160
<v Speaker 2>he's almost stalking her in a professional sense. This escalates

0:47:51.160 --> 0:47:54.040
<v Speaker 2>to Laura sending an anonymous complaints to the Board of

0:47:54.080 --> 0:47:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Behavioral Science Examiners that Barbara DeAngelis was fraudulently portraying herself

0:47:59.120 --> 0:48:03.440
<v Speaker 2>as a doctor, which I guess she was anyway. She

0:48:03.520 --> 0:48:06.000
<v Speaker 2>also sends a letter to the da of Los Angeles

0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:09.080
<v Speaker 2>accusing Barbara of practicing medicine without a license, which I

0:48:09.120 --> 0:48:12.759
<v Speaker 2>don't know that Barbara was doing. Although maybe this is.

0:48:12.719 --> 0:48:15.880
<v Speaker 4>A very like boomer woman con like just right, it's

0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:17.600
<v Speaker 4>watching like the Barbara v.

0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Laura or h I like people.

0:48:22.360 --> 0:48:25.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah right, you're like all of all of these generic

0:48:25.360 --> 0:48:28.440
<v Speaker 3>boomer women names need to no good.

0:48:28.880 --> 0:48:30.879
<v Speaker 2>I wish. Neither of them had ever had a job

0:48:30.920 --> 0:48:33.040
<v Speaker 2>giving people life advice. I guess this is where I

0:48:33.120 --> 0:48:35.040
<v Speaker 2>land on the Barbara Laura debate.

0:48:35.480 --> 0:48:39.040
<v Speaker 3>It's it's hard to find someone professionally giving life advice

0:48:39.360 --> 0:48:41.960
<v Speaker 3>who also has a pathological gift for attention.

0:48:42.440 --> 0:48:44.520
<v Speaker 2>I have known a couple of people who were like

0:48:44.640 --> 0:48:47.120
<v Speaker 2>good enough at life that I think their advice has

0:48:47.160 --> 0:48:49.640
<v Speaker 2>a would have a monetary value. And they are all

0:48:49.680 --> 0:48:52.440
<v Speaker 2>way too busy living good lives to get on the

0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:54.400
<v Speaker 2>radio and do that check, right, And.

0:48:54.280 --> 0:48:56.640
<v Speaker 3>That is what is supposed and that is like the

0:48:57.120 --> 0:49:00.640
<v Speaker 3>beautiful catch twenty two of people worth listening to. They're

0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:02.279
<v Speaker 3>usually too busy to talk to you.

0:49:02.680 --> 0:49:05.680
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly right, which is why you're left with people.

0:49:05.520 --> 0:49:07.840
<v Speaker 3>Like me, and that's why we're here.

0:49:08.680 --> 0:49:17.600
<v Speaker 2>Ponder that while you listen to these ads. Ah, So

0:49:17.680 --> 0:49:20.360
<v Speaker 2>Barbara leaves the station KFI while she and where she

0:49:20.400 --> 0:49:23.560
<v Speaker 2>and Laura have their quarrel. She later would claim that

0:49:23.680 --> 0:49:26.279
<v Speaker 2>this happens in nineteen ninety two, several months after she

0:49:26.360 --> 0:49:28.600
<v Speaker 2>left quote, I received a call from a woman who

0:49:28.600 --> 0:49:30.640
<v Speaker 2>sounded very nervous on the phone. She said she had

0:49:30.680 --> 0:49:32.520
<v Speaker 2>been a patient and a friend of Laura's, and she

0:49:32.560 --> 0:49:34.200
<v Speaker 2>wanted to meet and talk to me because she had

0:49:34.200 --> 0:49:36.400
<v Speaker 2>some information. She came out and told me that she

0:49:36.440 --> 0:49:38.360
<v Speaker 2>knew for a fact it was Laura, as I suspected,

0:49:38.360 --> 0:49:40.640
<v Speaker 2>who had set out to destroy my career and discredit me,

0:49:40.880 --> 0:49:43.000
<v Speaker 2>because she had heard Laura say it from her mouth

0:49:43.000 --> 0:49:46.560
<v Speaker 2>and not just say it, but scream it. Now. Again,

0:49:47.120 --> 0:49:51.080
<v Speaker 2>no good sources here Barbara's story does, or at least

0:49:51.160 --> 0:49:54.439
<v Speaker 2>Vicky finds other people who worked at KFI who back

0:49:54.520 --> 0:49:57.560
<v Speaker 2>up aspects of the story, including that Laura was incredibly

0:49:57.560 --> 0:50:00.960
<v Speaker 2>hostile to Barbara. So yeah, I don't have trouble believing

0:50:00.960 --> 0:50:03.799
<v Speaker 2>that she orchestrated this woman's expulsion from the network because

0:50:03.840 --> 0:50:06.279
<v Speaker 2>she was threatened by her because she was competition, right.

0:50:06.800 --> 0:50:09.759
<v Speaker 2>I also think that Barbara definitely was portraying herself as

0:50:09.800 --> 0:50:11.560
<v Speaker 2>a doctor, and I don't really think she was.

0:50:13.600 --> 0:50:16.160
<v Speaker 3>I don't think there. Yeah, again, there's like I'm rooting

0:50:16.640 --> 0:50:18.520
<v Speaker 3>for no one.

0:50:18.800 --> 0:50:21.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm rooting for those sweaters in hook. Maybe I'll

0:50:21.719 --> 0:50:23.640
<v Speaker 2>have to watch that movie again and really have an

0:50:23.640 --> 0:50:24.640
<v Speaker 2>eye for the sweaters.

0:50:24.880 --> 0:50:27.279
<v Speaker 4>I hope they're able to sort of dig themselves out

0:50:27.440 --> 0:50:29.440
<v Speaker 4>from yeah, the trauma.

0:50:29.040 --> 0:50:33.240
<v Speaker 2>Then, yeah, yeah, I'm so shocked by that. Relief reveal.

0:50:33.320 --> 0:50:35.640
<v Speaker 2>What a baffling thing to learn in the middle of

0:50:35.680 --> 0:50:38.880
<v Speaker 2>this it comes. It's like, yeah, it's like a thunderbolt

0:50:38.920 --> 0:50:41.880
<v Speaker 2>from a clear sky, just bam. Now there's sister act

0:50:41.920 --> 0:50:43.240
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of this story.

0:50:44.200 --> 0:50:44.840
<v Speaker 3>It's a moment.

0:50:44.960 --> 0:50:47.839
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it is like this moment where you're like, wait,

0:50:47.920 --> 0:50:50.239
<v Speaker 4>is this gonna change the direction of her life?

0:50:50.239 --> 0:50:52.080
<v Speaker 3>And it's like no, no, not at all.

0:50:52.160 --> 0:50:55.279
<v Speaker 2>No, no, really doesn't make it unrelated, a complete red

0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:56.960
<v Speaker 2>herring for the future of Laura's slack.

0:50:57.040 --> 0:51:01.399
<v Speaker 3>There's no narrative to be gotten from it. It just is.

0:51:01.520 --> 0:51:03.440
<v Speaker 2>You would cut this out of the script on her

0:51:03.480 --> 0:51:05.000
<v Speaker 2>life because like, why are we doing this? Where are

0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:07.080
<v Speaker 2>we going on this journey? This doesn't teach us anything,

0:51:07.120 --> 0:51:10.080
<v Speaker 2>This doesn't contribute to who she becomes. But life isn't

0:51:10.080 --> 0:51:14.040
<v Speaker 2>a story, people. Yeah, the nearly nineteen nineties we're a

0:51:14.120 --> 0:51:17.839
<v Speaker 2>precarious time financially for the Slushingers. They had a devastating

0:51:17.880 --> 0:51:20.600
<v Speaker 2>house fire and we're basically on the edge of eviction,

0:51:20.840 --> 0:51:23.800
<v Speaker 2>horribly in debt. At least a Vicki's story is accurate.

0:51:25.080 --> 0:51:27.640
<v Speaker 2>The story one is left believing, if we take that

0:51:27.680 --> 0:51:30.440
<v Speaker 2>book as more or less true, is that doctor Laura

0:51:30.560 --> 0:51:33.440
<v Speaker 2>was ruthless and so cruel to Barbara, in part because

0:51:33.800 --> 0:51:36.160
<v Speaker 2>she saw that like, if I don't get if I

0:51:36.160 --> 0:51:39.919
<v Speaker 2>don't break through in radio, we're fucked right. We've kind

0:51:39.920 --> 0:51:42.200
<v Speaker 2>of bet everything on this, and I don't like being

0:51:42.200 --> 0:51:45.120
<v Speaker 2>a therapist. We get a vision of her during this

0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:48.279
<v Speaker 2>awkward period through a piece of rare, nearly lost media,

0:51:48.360 --> 0:51:51.000
<v Speaker 2>or at least we can learn about her a little

0:51:51.000 --> 0:51:53.480
<v Speaker 2>in her absence in this lost media, because we're not

0:51:53.480 --> 0:51:55.160
<v Speaker 2>actually going to hear her in this. This is a

0:51:55.200 --> 0:51:58.880
<v Speaker 2>recording of the Meeting of the Mouths, a radio special

0:51:58.920 --> 0:52:02.799
<v Speaker 2>hosted by Tom Lacas, who I think I've done ads for.

0:52:03.440 --> 0:52:06.399
<v Speaker 2>He's one of the first shock jocks. He came right

0:52:06.440 --> 0:52:09.560
<v Speaker 2>after Bill Balance and right before Howard Stern. Right, so,

0:52:09.680 --> 0:52:11.759
<v Speaker 2>if you're if you're looking at like where we land

0:52:11.800 --> 0:52:14.880
<v Speaker 2>on the descendants chart, Lacas comes out of balance. Stern

0:52:15.120 --> 0:52:18.600
<v Speaker 2>kind of is birthed somewhere in at miasthma. Although Stern

0:52:18.680 --> 0:52:20.560
<v Speaker 2>is on the air by the time they're talking about him.

0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:21.799
<v Speaker 2>I need to.

0:52:21.719 --> 0:52:26.960
<v Speaker 3>Turn onside this. I absolutely hate to test despise the

0:52:27.000 --> 0:52:28.560
<v Speaker 3>phrase Meeting of the Bouths.

0:52:28.960 --> 0:52:33.440
<v Speaker 2>It's horrible, it's so gress and this this is like

0:52:33.520 --> 0:52:35.640
<v Speaker 2>a big radio specially get a bunch of hosts together

0:52:35.680 --> 0:52:37.279
<v Speaker 2>in a room, right, So Laura is big enough that

0:52:37.320 --> 0:52:39.279
<v Speaker 2>she's made it into the room with Tom Lakas, who's

0:52:39.280 --> 0:52:43.000
<v Speaker 2>a significant name. Also in this video is Barbara DeAngelis,

0:52:43.280 --> 0:52:46.080
<v Speaker 2>Rush Limbaugh and some other dudes who matter less than

0:52:46.120 --> 0:52:49.760
<v Speaker 2>either of them. So this is during that awkward period.

0:52:49.920 --> 0:52:51.799
<v Speaker 2>I don't have any of Laura in here because she's

0:52:51.920 --> 0:52:54.680
<v Speaker 2>very quiet, so is Barbara, and it's kind of unclear

0:52:54.719 --> 0:52:56.760
<v Speaker 2>to me when one is talking or the other because

0:52:56.920 --> 0:52:59.280
<v Speaker 2>they're not on great audio.

0:53:00.040 --> 0:53:01.759
<v Speaker 3>Sound the same to you, to say it, all women

0:53:01.800 --> 0:53:02.279
<v Speaker 3>sound the same.

0:53:02.320 --> 0:53:04.080
<v Speaker 2>But the point is that, like, you learn a lot

0:53:04.120 --> 0:53:07.319
<v Speaker 2>about her position here. This is nineteen like ninety, she

0:53:07.440 --> 0:53:10.719
<v Speaker 2>and Barbara are kind of just putting in very little, right.

0:53:11.080 --> 0:53:13.840
<v Speaker 2>It's mostly Tom Lakas and Rush Limbaugh, who has just

0:53:13.920 --> 0:53:16.120
<v Speaker 2>exploded at this time. It gives you an idea of

0:53:16.160 --> 0:53:18.080
<v Speaker 2>where her standing is. Right if this had been a

0:53:18.080 --> 0:53:20.440
<v Speaker 2>couple of years later, Laura would have been talking as

0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:23.520
<v Speaker 2>much as Rush like, because she does become that level

0:53:23.520 --> 0:53:26.479
<v Speaker 2>of figure. So this gives you an idea of kind

0:53:26.480 --> 0:53:30.319
<v Speaker 2>of where this is her early career. And honestly, we

0:53:30.360 --> 0:53:34.200
<v Speaker 2>could get away without playing this clip but Rush Limbaugh's

0:53:34.200 --> 0:53:37.160
<v Speaker 2>gonna say something here that I just feel I've had

0:53:37.200 --> 0:53:39.920
<v Speaker 2>to listen to it, and now you're gonna listen to it.

0:53:40.320 --> 0:53:44.400
<v Speaker 2>And for some context, this is Tom Lacas and Rush

0:53:44.480 --> 0:53:48.200
<v Speaker 2>Limbaugh arguing about the band Two Live Crew, who have

0:53:48.239 --> 0:53:52.879
<v Speaker 2>had to cancel several shows after being accused of profanity.

0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:57.000
<v Speaker 3>You can you're not allowed to throw in another hard

0:53:57.120 --> 0:53:57.759
<v Speaker 3>left like this.

0:53:57.920 --> 0:54:01.960
<v Speaker 2>I know it's wild stuff. Tom is arguing Two Live

0:54:02.080 --> 0:54:05.799
<v Speaker 2>Cruise shouldn't be censored. Basically, right, I don't approve of

0:54:05.840 --> 0:54:07.960
<v Speaker 2>them being so profane, but it's bad that they're having

0:54:07.960 --> 0:54:09.600
<v Speaker 2>to cancel the shows, and Rush being like, as long

0:54:09.600 --> 0:54:11.880
<v Speaker 2>as the government doesn't have a law, can't saying they

0:54:11.880 --> 0:54:14.240
<v Speaker 2>can't do their show, it's fine. Right, that's the argument,

0:54:14.440 --> 0:54:16.160
<v Speaker 2>And I'm just going to play you a clip from

0:54:16.160 --> 0:54:16.800
<v Speaker 2>that argument.

0:54:17.160 --> 0:54:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Just warning Jamie listeners, you're going to hate this.

0:54:20.719 --> 0:54:22.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh you're not going to be happy, but it's happening.

0:54:23.200 --> 0:54:24.879
<v Speaker 3>Well, why did we gather here?

0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:28.680
<v Speaker 5>And are you not troubled that the whole focus of

0:54:28.719 --> 0:54:30.840
<v Speaker 5>the particular song in question of Two Live Crew was

0:54:30.880 --> 0:54:33.440
<v Speaker 5>to talk about how much fun it is to bust

0:54:33.480 --> 0:54:37.120
<v Speaker 5>female vaginal walls, to rip them apart to rip them.

0:54:38.080 --> 0:54:40.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm troubled by it, but I also know that the

0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:44.359
<v Speaker 2>free market would eventually determine that most people don't want

0:54:44.360 --> 0:54:47.520
<v Speaker 2>to buy a record like I just that had to

0:54:47.560 --> 0:54:51.040
<v Speaker 2>be with other people. I never heard Rush Limbas say

0:54:51.120 --> 0:54:54.799
<v Speaker 2>vaginal walls before, and I wish I am male vaginal

0:54:55.239 --> 0:54:58.680
<v Speaker 2>female vaginal walls. I'm so sorry, but it's maybe this

0:54:58.760 --> 0:55:00.520
<v Speaker 2>isn't me now, and now what's in you?

0:55:01.040 --> 0:55:03.400
<v Speaker 3>This is maybe? Like but like he said.

0:55:03.160 --> 0:55:06.880
<v Speaker 4>It, you know, exactly like you would think you to

0:55:07.040 --> 0:55:11.560
<v Speaker 4>grow like, which is worst case scenario.

0:55:11.840 --> 0:55:14.279
<v Speaker 2>If you were like a comedian doing a fake Rush

0:55:14.320 --> 0:55:17.600
<v Speaker 2>Limbaugh voice and like reading out rap lyrics right because

0:55:17.640 --> 0:55:19.920
<v Speaker 2>you thought that was funny, you would say that phrase

0:55:20.000 --> 0:55:21.080
<v Speaker 2>the way that Rush said it.

0:55:21.080 --> 0:55:24.040
<v Speaker 3>There, Well, that's I mean, that's like that guy's whole beat, right,

0:55:24.040 --> 0:55:25.320
<v Speaker 3>that's the Rush Limbo effect.

0:55:25.320 --> 0:55:28.160
<v Speaker 4>That's the Jordan Peterson. In fact, they're always performing a

0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:29.480
<v Speaker 4>bad snl.

0:55:29.560 --> 0:55:32.799
<v Speaker 2>Ben Shapiro reading a wet ass pussy right, like, yes,

0:55:33.600 --> 0:55:36.120
<v Speaker 2>part of the appeal, that's part of.

0:55:36.080 --> 0:55:39.799
<v Speaker 4>Their comedians are left dead in a ditch over the

0:55:39.920 --> 0:55:40.720
<v Speaker 4>self parody.

0:55:41.320 --> 0:55:43.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's part of what works with them.

0:55:44.120 --> 0:55:45.960
<v Speaker 3>Seeing through vaginal walls.

0:55:46.200 --> 0:55:49.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, somebody somebody's gonna clip that one out and turn

0:55:49.800 --> 0:55:51.120
<v Speaker 2>that into a track.

0:55:51.239 --> 0:55:54.239
<v Speaker 3>Thank god, was that an iambic pentameter? Do you think?

0:55:54.560 --> 0:55:57.359
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it must have been, a lot of people don't

0:55:57.440 --> 0:56:00.799
<v Speaker 2>know this, but both the show Deadwood and everything rush

0:56:00.840 --> 0:56:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Limbaugh ever said perfect diambic pentameter. Gorgeous. So all of

0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:09.200
<v Speaker 2>that's very unpleasant. But you can see nineteen ninety she

0:56:09.239 --> 0:56:12.279
<v Speaker 2>has not found her footing right because she is not.

0:56:12.440 --> 0:56:16.600
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't say anything when rush Limbaugh says that. But

0:56:16.680 --> 0:56:19.040
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety four she does break through, and she

0:56:19.080 --> 0:56:21.759
<v Speaker 2>owes a lot of the success she has. Finally to

0:56:21.920 --> 0:56:25.080
<v Speaker 2>her her co host in this recording, rush Limbaugh, his

0:56:25.200 --> 0:56:28.160
<v Speaker 2>success had put conservative talk radio on the map. So

0:56:28.640 --> 0:56:31.400
<v Speaker 2>Bill Balance makes it clear to the people with money

0:56:31.440 --> 0:56:35.279
<v Speaker 2>and radio, oh, these women are listening to shows, and

0:56:35.400 --> 0:56:38.160
<v Speaker 2>rush Limbaugh makes it clear that like people like weird loud,

0:56:38.239 --> 0:56:41.399
<v Speaker 2>right wing assholes, and putting those two together is going

0:56:41.440 --> 0:56:44.160
<v Speaker 2>to make it very clear that doctor Laura has an

0:56:44.280 --> 0:56:45.360
<v Speaker 2>audience right.

0:56:45.239 --> 0:56:48.440
<v Speaker 4>Even listening to shows could be dangerous, better a wrench

0:56:48.480 --> 0:56:49.160
<v Speaker 4>in the whole.

0:56:49.000 --> 0:56:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Thing, Yeah, exactly. So this is gonna work out well

0:56:53.760 --> 0:56:55.800
<v Speaker 2>for her now to fit into this new market. Doctor

0:56:55.880 --> 0:56:59.560
<v Speaker 2>Laura makes herself harsher crueler and you know, more Rush

0:56:59.600 --> 0:57:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Limbaugh esque.

0:57:01.320 --> 0:57:03.320
<v Speaker 3>That's all daft punk remix.

0:57:03.760 --> 0:57:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Much of her success is supercharged by the fact

0:57:08.200 --> 0:57:11.200
<v Speaker 2>that she also times the release of her first book wonderfully.

0:57:11.440 --> 0:57:14.480
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen ninety four, I think ninety four ninety five,

0:57:14.520 --> 0:57:18.160
<v Speaker 2>she publishes the advice book Ten Stupid Things Men Do

0:57:18.280 --> 0:57:20.959
<v Speaker 2>to Mess Up Their Lives. Yes, if you ever heard

0:57:21.000 --> 0:57:23.480
<v Speaker 2>the show, you heard this title. I knew the name

0:57:23.520 --> 0:57:25.920
<v Speaker 2>of doctor Laura's first book without even having to research

0:57:25.920 --> 0:57:28.160
<v Speaker 2>it because I heard a million times on the air.

0:57:29.280 --> 0:57:34.320
<v Speaker 3>I've seen without knowing. Yeah, I mean that book has endured.

0:57:35.320 --> 0:57:37.280
<v Speaker 2>It absolutely has. And I'm going to read you the

0:57:37.280 --> 0:57:40.920
<v Speaker 2>first five chapters, and each each chapter comes with like

0:57:40.960 --> 0:57:42.760
<v Speaker 2>a little sentence that I guess is supposed to be

0:57:42.800 --> 0:57:46.360
<v Speaker 2>a scriptor Number one, and these are again the ten

0:57:46.440 --> 0:57:48.520
<v Speaker 2>stupid things women do to mess up their lives. Number

0:57:48.560 --> 0:57:52.080
<v Speaker 2>one stupid attachment is a woman just a woe woe

0:57:52.120 --> 0:57:55.840
<v Speaker 2>woe on a man. You typically look to the context

0:57:55.840 --> 0:57:58.840
<v Speaker 2>of a man to find and defined yourself. I don't

0:57:58.920 --> 0:58:01.840
<v Speaker 2>understand why should wrote that. That doesn't wa a whoa

0:58:01.920 --> 0:58:06.120
<v Speaker 2>wo whoa on a man? What does that mean? Anyway,

0:58:06.600 --> 0:58:09.840
<v Speaker 2>Stupid courtship, I finally found someone I could attach to,

0:58:09.960 --> 0:58:12.760
<v Speaker 2>and other stupid ideas about dating. Desperate to have a man,

0:58:12.840 --> 0:58:15.680
<v Speaker 2>you become a beggar, not a chooser in the dating scene.

0:58:16.360 --> 0:58:20.120
<v Speaker 2>Stupid devotion, but I love him and more stupid romantic stuff.

0:58:20.360 --> 0:58:22.840
<v Speaker 2>You find yourself driven to love and suffer and sucker

0:58:22.960 --> 0:58:26.920
<v Speaker 2>or do you spell that sucker in vain? Stupid passion? Whoa,

0:58:26.960 --> 0:58:30.600
<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, oh ah, we're breathing hard. It must mean love.

0:58:30.880 --> 0:58:33.560
<v Speaker 2>You have sex too soon to romantically and set yourself

0:58:33.600 --> 0:58:38.000
<v Speaker 2>up to be burned. Stupid cohabitation the ultimate female self delusion.

0:58:38.160 --> 0:58:40.240
<v Speaker 2>So stop lying to yourself. You're not living with him

0:58:40.240 --> 0:58:41.960
<v Speaker 2>because you love him. You're living with him because you

0:58:42.000 --> 0:58:43.200
<v Speaker 2>hope he'll want you.

0:58:43.200 --> 0:58:46.080
<v Speaker 1>You can't, you generally can't tell me that this isn't

0:58:46.160 --> 0:58:48.920
<v Speaker 1>just like articles written by Carrie Bronshaw.

0:58:50.600 --> 0:58:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely.

0:58:52.720 --> 0:58:55.160
<v Speaker 4>I was gonna say the front half of that was

0:58:55.200 --> 0:58:59.560
<v Speaker 4>like a semi good, if a little conservative Olivia Marico

0:58:59.680 --> 0:59:03.200
<v Speaker 4>sink and then it just sort of descended into madness.

0:59:03.920 --> 0:59:07.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, So looking into this book is very frustrating.

0:59:07.840 --> 0:59:09.960
<v Speaker 2>It starts with the introduction, where we learned that her

0:59:09.960 --> 0:59:14.080
<v Speaker 2>book on Women was inspired by two men. The second

0:59:14.120 --> 0:59:16.840
<v Speaker 2>of those two men was her father and the first

0:59:17.000 --> 0:59:20.600
<v Speaker 2>was an engineer at KFI. Quote. After working with me

0:59:20.640 --> 0:59:22.640
<v Speaker 2>for more than six months, three hours a night, five

0:59:22.720 --> 0:59:25.400
<v Speaker 2>days a week, Dan Mandis was hearing approximately twenty five

0:59:25.440 --> 0:59:28.640
<v Speaker 2>women per show agonize over some dumb guy. You know, Laura.

0:59:28.720 --> 0:59:30.560
<v Speaker 2>He told me in an unguarded moment, if you listen

0:59:30.600 --> 0:59:32.400
<v Speaker 2>to your show long enough, you begin to think women

0:59:32.440 --> 0:59:37.320
<v Speaker 2>are stupid. And that's kind of the core of what

0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:39.480
<v Speaker 2>the Doctor Laura Show is and why it's toxic.

0:59:39.640 --> 0:59:43.640
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, you mean you mean whoa whoa whoa whoa

0:59:43.640 --> 0:59:46.320
<v Speaker 1>whoa man our stupid man?

0:59:46.400 --> 0:59:49.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's a lot of it.

0:59:49.800 --> 0:59:54.160
<v Speaker 1>That's my favorite part.

0:59:53.280 --> 0:59:56.000
<v Speaker 2>She has again, as I talk about like she is

0:59:56.080 --> 0:59:59.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of like she succeeds by doing the thing that

0:59:59.560 --> 1:00:02.960
<v Speaker 2>is still a lot of why. How like internet discourse works, Right,

1:00:03.000 --> 1:00:05.960
<v Speaker 2>you find someone who's saying something you can clip out

1:00:05.960 --> 1:00:08.760
<v Speaker 2>of context or something shitty, and then you lay into

1:00:08.800 --> 1:00:11.240
<v Speaker 2>them for a bunch of people who don't know them, right, Like,

1:00:11.360 --> 1:00:13.920
<v Speaker 2>that's the gist of Doctor Laura. That's why the Internet

1:00:13.960 --> 1:00:16.840
<v Speaker 2>works the way it does. We all want to believe

1:00:16.880 --> 1:00:19.720
<v Speaker 2>that we're smarter than we are right, and Laura aimed

1:00:19.720 --> 1:00:24.280
<v Speaker 2>herself specifically at a special kind of middle American Christian conservative,

1:00:24.280 --> 1:00:27.120
<v Speaker 2>someone like my mom, Right, people who have had tough

1:00:27.160 --> 1:00:30.040
<v Speaker 2>goes of it, who are scared or angry about the

1:00:30.080 --> 1:00:33.400
<v Speaker 2>things that they see out in the world, and they want,

1:00:33.520 --> 1:00:36.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, they need, rather than blaming the systems, to

1:00:36.600 --> 1:00:40.520
<v Speaker 2>blame the freeloaders. Right, the people they imagine are responsible

1:00:40.560 --> 1:00:43.479
<v Speaker 2>for their difficulties, the people that they imagine are less

1:00:43.520 --> 1:00:48.080
<v Speaker 2>responsible and good than they are. And doctor Laura provides that. Right,

1:00:48.120 --> 1:00:51.440
<v Speaker 2>it's just like on you know, same as it ever was.

1:00:51.520 --> 1:00:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Right now, It is not a coincidence that doctor Laura

1:00:54.280 --> 1:00:56.720
<v Speaker 2>explodes in popularity in the mid nineties. This is the

1:00:56.800 --> 1:01:01.160
<v Speaker 2>tipping point from modern conservative grievance politics the media, and

1:01:01.480 --> 1:01:04.840
<v Speaker 2>they're they're angry because Bill Clinton has just to their eyes,

1:01:04.960 --> 1:01:08.640
<v Speaker 2>unjustly taken power from them after three presidential terms and

1:01:08.760 --> 1:01:12.440
<v Speaker 2>is a very immoral man. And his immorality coincides with

1:01:12.480 --> 1:01:16.400
<v Speaker 2>an explosion online, in explicit films and TV like the Simpsons. Right,

1:01:16.440 --> 1:01:19.880
<v Speaker 2>you get all these you get all these media that

1:01:20.120 --> 1:01:23.200
<v Speaker 2>conservatives get angry about. Right when the Simpsons may seem

1:01:23.280 --> 1:01:25.440
<v Speaker 2>tame toy now, but early and it's it's time on

1:01:25.480 --> 1:01:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the air. Barbara Bush when she was First Lady, attacked it, right,

1:01:29.640 --> 1:01:32.480
<v Speaker 2>which is why there's a whole Simpsons episode starring the Bushes.

1:01:32.840 --> 1:01:35.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was like that does that is good context

1:01:35.560 --> 1:01:35.840
<v Speaker 3>for that?

1:01:36.840 --> 1:01:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she attacks the show because she does. Like The

1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:43.160
<v Speaker 2>Simpsons was fairly unique in that period, a show where

1:01:43.160 --> 1:01:46.840
<v Speaker 2>there's like there's nothing redeeming about the country or about

1:01:47.280 --> 1:01:50.040
<v Speaker 2>like a lot of the people in it, Like the

1:01:50.120 --> 1:01:53.400
<v Speaker 2>police are corrupt, the mayor is a crook. All of

1:01:53.440 --> 1:02:00.920
<v Speaker 2>the politicians are crooks, like the alcoholics, you know, Like right.

1:02:01.040 --> 1:02:03.760
<v Speaker 4>The school, the teachers don't have the best interests of

1:02:03.800 --> 1:02:04.480
<v Speaker 4>their students.

1:02:04.840 --> 1:02:06.880
<v Speaker 2>They do not give a shit about their students.

1:02:06.960 --> 1:02:07.280
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

1:02:07.360 --> 1:02:10.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they're like it's beautiful, it's perfect art.

1:02:11.040 --> 1:02:13.080
<v Speaker 2>It's very cynical, and it made a lot of it.

1:02:13.080 --> 1:02:15.360
<v Speaker 2>It's part of this. It's not the only thing doing,

1:02:15.360 --> 1:02:18.280
<v Speaker 2>but it makes a lot of conservatives feel attacked and

1:02:18.480 --> 1:02:22.240
<v Speaker 2>under fire, right, a lot of conservatives who maybe wanted

1:02:22.240 --> 1:02:25.360
<v Speaker 2>to feel that way because it's more exciting than just

1:02:25.800 --> 1:02:29.320
<v Speaker 2>living in the suburbs, taking your kids to school, working

1:02:29.360 --> 1:02:31.840
<v Speaker 2>forty hours a week at an air conditioned office. Right,

1:02:31.920 --> 1:02:34.000
<v Speaker 2>you want to feel like you're part of a culture war.

1:02:34.040 --> 1:02:35.400
<v Speaker 2>You're being attacked, right.

1:02:35.760 --> 1:02:37.920
<v Speaker 4>Right, Like it gives you a sense of there's a

1:02:37.960 --> 1:02:40.480
<v Speaker 4>sense of order, there's a sense of control.

1:02:40.400 --> 1:02:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, and a sense of action, right yeah. And

1:02:43.320 --> 1:02:45.920
<v Speaker 2>I found an interview with doctor Laura from nineteen ninety

1:02:45.920 --> 1:02:48.960
<v Speaker 2>four and the Los Angeles Radio Guide. It quotes her

1:02:49.000 --> 1:02:51.479
<v Speaker 2>as saying, my values are an oasis in the middle

1:02:51.520 --> 1:02:54.040
<v Speaker 2>of a moral nothingness. I am single handedly trying to

1:02:54.120 --> 1:02:57.720
<v Speaker 2>change this lack of ethics and values. Great stuff. Oh

1:02:57.800 --> 1:03:01.800
<v Speaker 2>so she's a crusader for a crusader, you know, you know,

1:03:02.800 --> 1:03:05.320
<v Speaker 2>took part in the breaking up of a marriage lot

1:03:05.520 --> 1:03:11.840
<v Speaker 2>or told secrets from her patients to other patients, engineered

1:03:11.840 --> 1:03:15.640
<v Speaker 2>the distruction of another woman's career, you know. But like whatever, Right,

1:03:15.720 --> 1:03:20.480
<v Speaker 2>she's an oasis of morality. Yes, So during this interview

1:03:20.520 --> 1:03:23.880
<v Speaker 2>with the Los Angeles Radio Guide, which I guess used

1:03:23.880 --> 1:03:28.160
<v Speaker 2>to have enough leaders to be a magazine, she described

1:03:28.240 --> 1:03:30.360
<v Speaker 2>the chief problem of modern women as quote they does

1:03:30.400 --> 1:03:36.160
<v Speaker 2>find success by things other than their family relationships. I mean,

1:03:36.560 --> 1:03:39.720
<v Speaker 2>Laura hates her entire family aside from I guess her

1:03:39.800 --> 1:03:42.120
<v Speaker 2>kid and her husband, but certainly does not have other

1:03:42.200 --> 1:03:44.440
<v Speaker 2>family beyond that that she's close with and.

1:03:44.440 --> 1:03:48.760
<v Speaker 3>The feeling doesn't seem like the other.

1:03:48.880 --> 1:03:52.840
<v Speaker 2>SOI right, right, that's wrong to have be fucked up

1:03:52.840 --> 1:03:55.120
<v Speaker 2>with your family and have a good career. I'm fucked

1:03:55.200 --> 1:03:56.840
<v Speaker 2>up with my family and have a good career, but

1:03:56.880 --> 1:03:58.600
<v Speaker 2>it's wrong to tell people you shouldn't do.

1:03:58.600 --> 1:04:02.440
<v Speaker 3>That, right, I just I wonder. I mean, I know

1:04:02.480 --> 1:04:05.240
<v Speaker 3>that there's no clean answer for this, but it's just

1:04:05.360 --> 1:04:09.120
<v Speaker 3>like it seems like from a very young age she

1:04:09.200 --> 1:04:12.479
<v Speaker 3>has both had a fixation on control and a sense

1:04:12.520 --> 1:04:16.000
<v Speaker 3>of order and been imbued with a deep sense of

1:04:16.040 --> 1:04:20.400
<v Speaker 3>self hatred. I cannot stop thinking about that. Like they're

1:04:21.120 --> 1:04:23.640
<v Speaker 3>like it's all connected of like, well, what is the

1:04:23.680 --> 1:04:26.840
<v Speaker 3>best I can do for myself while maintaining the same

1:04:26.960 --> 1:04:30.200
<v Speaker 3>level of self hatred and like spreading it around.

1:04:30.320 --> 1:04:33.720
<v Speaker 2>It's just ugh, that's good stuff.

1:04:34.000 --> 1:04:36.200
<v Speaker 3>It's awesome. I'm sorry, That's what I meant to say.

1:04:36.520 --> 1:04:39.120
<v Speaker 2>It's the essence of right wing politics. Right. Everything I

1:04:39.240 --> 1:04:42.440
<v Speaker 2>disapprove of is bad, and I am the lone voice

1:04:42.440 --> 1:04:44.480
<v Speaker 2>for truth fighting back against it.

1:04:44.280 --> 1:04:44.400
<v Speaker 10>Right.

1:04:44.480 --> 1:04:48.080
<v Speaker 3>It hurts me to do this, but as you cries, like, figure,

1:04:48.160 --> 1:04:49.040
<v Speaker 3>I have to.

1:04:49.000 --> 1:04:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Do it now. In that interview, Laura does sum up

1:04:51.560 --> 1:04:54.360
<v Speaker 2>her only flaw generally, I went my way and I

1:04:54.360 --> 1:04:56.480
<v Speaker 2>want it now. Aside from that, I don't have any

1:04:56.520 --> 1:05:01.280
<v Speaker 2>bad habits. Now that's it's fun stuff. And when it

1:05:01.280 --> 1:05:04.600
<v Speaker 2>comes to the harm a person like Laura Sleshinger has done,

1:05:05.040 --> 1:05:07.120
<v Speaker 2>I can focus just on her historic context.

1:05:07.200 --> 1:05:07.320
<v Speaker 10>Right.

1:05:07.360 --> 1:05:08.880
<v Speaker 2>As we've said, she paves the way for guys like

1:05:08.960 --> 1:05:11.560
<v Speaker 2>Jordan Peterson, even for like you know, I mentioned the

1:05:11.560 --> 1:05:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Bechdel Cast. Obviously this podcast has as we owe something

1:05:15.080 --> 1:05:18.120
<v Speaker 2>to Bill Balance, we also do to doctor Laura, but

1:05:18.280 --> 1:05:21.760
<v Speaker 2>so doaes fucking Joe Rogan, right, Like these are all

1:05:21.960 --> 1:05:22.320
<v Speaker 2>part of it.

1:05:22.400 --> 1:05:24.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I would say, I would say Morris.

1:05:24.720 --> 1:05:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, not in the direct kind of content, but

1:05:27.480 --> 1:05:31.240
<v Speaker 2>that she makes space in media and shows how she's

1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:35.840
<v Speaker 2>part of the growing awareness that executives in TV and

1:05:35.840 --> 1:05:38.160
<v Speaker 2>then radio just all over entertainment have with like, oh,

1:05:38.320 --> 1:05:41.760
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of money in people's messy lives and

1:05:41.840 --> 1:05:45.560
<v Speaker 2>people being mean to people in messy lives. Right, She's

1:05:45.600 --> 1:05:49.439
<v Speaker 2>not the only person doing this, but she's massively successful. Right.

1:05:49.680 --> 1:05:52.360
<v Speaker 2>She has the number one radio personality for years. In

1:05:52.400 --> 1:05:55.360
<v Speaker 2>twenty eleven, she's the number five audience on the radio.

1:05:55.480 --> 1:05:57.680
<v Speaker 2>She's huge for a very long time.

1:05:57.760 --> 1:05:59.560
<v Speaker 3>People love to get yelled at by mom.

1:05:59.720 --> 1:05:59.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:06:00.360 --> 1:06:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I could focus on all of that, and

1:06:02.880 --> 1:06:04.200
<v Speaker 2>I guess we will a little bit, but I want

1:06:04.200 --> 1:06:06.840
<v Speaker 2>to focus more right now on the damage that her

1:06:06.880 --> 1:06:09.600
<v Speaker 2>advice can do to individual people. You don't you know,

1:06:09.920 --> 1:06:12.280
<v Speaker 2>you don't have like a book of the experiences of

1:06:12.280 --> 1:06:15.520
<v Speaker 2>everyone who called her show, but you can occasionally find

1:06:15.560 --> 1:06:18.439
<v Speaker 2>people who called in or who listened to her talk

1:06:18.480 --> 1:06:21.080
<v Speaker 2>about the impact she had on them in places like Reddit,

1:06:21.640 --> 1:06:24.480
<v Speaker 2>and I this may spoil where the story is going,

1:06:24.520 --> 1:06:26.960
<v Speaker 2>but I found accounts from several women about how doctor

1:06:27.000 --> 1:06:31.600
<v Speaker 2>Laura affected them in the Narcissistic Abuse subreddit. I'm not

1:06:31.680 --> 1:06:34.120
<v Speaker 2>laughing at narcissistic abuse. It's just like, yeah, that is

1:06:34.200 --> 1:06:36.720
<v Speaker 2>that does kind of describe the Doctor Laura show.

1:06:37.000 --> 1:06:38.240
<v Speaker 3>She would pop up there.

1:06:38.400 --> 1:06:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. And here's one person describing

1:06:42.600 --> 1:06:44.760
<v Speaker 2>their experience. Back in the nineties, I was a stay

1:06:44.800 --> 1:06:47.439
<v Speaker 2>and I've edited this a little bit for length. Back

1:06:47.440 --> 1:06:49.240
<v Speaker 2>in the nineties, I was a stay at home mom

1:06:49.360 --> 1:06:51.520
<v Speaker 2>starting a family with my husband. I was raising a

1:06:51.520 --> 1:06:54.040
<v Speaker 2>conservative Catholic home with two parents who loved me and

1:06:54.040 --> 1:06:56.560
<v Speaker 2>my brothers very much, and I had a traditional marriage.

1:06:56.600 --> 1:06:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Whereas my father worked in my mother's stayed home to

1:06:59.040 --> 1:07:02.720
<v Speaker 2>raise us. Fast forward to the nineties, listening to Doctor Laura.

1:07:02.760 --> 1:07:04.880
<v Speaker 2>My husband was gone a lot, we lived far from

1:07:04.880 --> 1:07:07.000
<v Speaker 2>the family. There were many red flags of my husband's

1:07:07.000 --> 1:07:09.200
<v Speaker 2>behavior treatment of me, but I'd listened to Doctor Laura

1:07:09.280 --> 1:07:11.200
<v Speaker 2>during the day and vowed to be a better wife,

1:07:11.240 --> 1:07:13.000
<v Speaker 2>to be kind to my husband, to treat him better,

1:07:13.000 --> 1:07:15.920
<v Speaker 2>respect him more, nag him less. What that did was

1:07:16.000 --> 1:07:19.040
<v Speaker 2>cause me to ignore the red flags of major character

1:07:19.080 --> 1:07:21.840
<v Speaker 2>flaws and my husband. I recall, for some reason my

1:07:21.920 --> 1:07:24.280
<v Speaker 2>husband was doing or saying something I believed was out

1:07:24.280 --> 1:07:26.800
<v Speaker 2>of line, possibly calling me a bitch, or neglecting to

1:07:26.800 --> 1:07:29.200
<v Speaker 2>come home when he said he would not calling were traveling.

1:07:29.520 --> 1:07:31.560
<v Speaker 2>I'd turn on Doctor Laura and hear about how if

1:07:31.600 --> 1:07:34.000
<v Speaker 2>you choose to marry this man and make babies with him,

1:07:34.040 --> 1:07:35.800
<v Speaker 2>then suck it up for the sake of the kids.

1:07:36.160 --> 1:07:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I stayed and ignored major red flags for years. At

1:07:38.960 --> 1:07:41.200
<v Speaker 2>the time, I was listening to doctor Laura, and I

1:07:41.280 --> 1:07:43.480
<v Speaker 2>was blaming myself, and he was lying to me about

1:07:43.480 --> 1:07:45.680
<v Speaker 2>everything he did the second he stepped in the door.

1:07:46.000 --> 1:07:48.520
<v Speaker 2>It was ideal because his office was an hour commute

1:07:48.520 --> 1:07:50.480
<v Speaker 2>from our home in southern California at the time, so

1:07:50.520 --> 1:07:52.400
<v Speaker 2>he kept me and the kids a safe distance from

1:07:52.400 --> 1:07:54.720
<v Speaker 2>his hidden lifestyle. This is obviously a man who has

1:07:54.760 --> 1:07:57.920
<v Speaker 2>a whole life cheating on her as a narcissistic confuser. Right,

1:07:57.960 --> 1:08:00.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to go with the details, but we

1:08:00.240 --> 1:08:01.760
<v Speaker 2>don't need that on the radio show. But this is

1:08:01.760 --> 1:08:04.920
<v Speaker 2>how she describes listening to the Doctor Laura Show as

1:08:05.280 --> 1:08:07.760
<v Speaker 2>making her think she did the right thing by ignoring

1:08:07.880 --> 1:08:09.360
<v Speaker 2>the fucked up shit he was doing.

1:08:09.520 --> 1:08:16.880
<v Speaker 3>Right anyway, Well, I mean it's like, I'm at least glad.

1:08:16.960 --> 1:08:19.360
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, it's so it's so fucked because I

1:08:19.360 --> 1:08:21.320
<v Speaker 3>feel like, you know, the Internet at large is often

1:08:21.400 --> 1:08:27.400
<v Speaker 3>i think, like used as the complete villain of how

1:08:27.400 --> 1:08:30.320
<v Speaker 3>the stuff gets perpetrated, but it obviously goes back before then,

1:08:30.560 --> 1:08:32.840
<v Speaker 3>and in this case, it seems like the Internet has

1:08:32.880 --> 1:08:36.800
<v Speaker 3>given this person a like space to actually air it

1:08:36.840 --> 1:08:38.880
<v Speaker 3>out and talk with people.

1:08:39.080 --> 1:08:41.599
<v Speaker 2>Because yeah, I do think it's valuable. As angry as

1:08:41.600 --> 1:08:43.760
<v Speaker 2>I often get at the Internet at social media for

1:08:43.800 --> 1:08:46.840
<v Speaker 2>how much more toxic it's made this to note that, like, yeah,

1:08:46.880 --> 1:08:49.839
<v Speaker 2>this was happening in the radio, this has probably happened

1:08:49.920 --> 1:08:53.080
<v Speaker 2>before the radio. I'm sure like magazines that have a

1:08:53.080 --> 1:08:56.479
<v Speaker 2>massive media who you know, you get like these you know,

1:08:57.280 --> 1:08:59.759
<v Speaker 2>mail in your advice stuff, right, That stuff pre dates

1:08:59.800 --> 1:09:01.479
<v Speaker 2>Dock Laura, where you send in a letter and they

1:09:01.479 --> 1:09:03.519
<v Speaker 2>give you advice. I'm sure this kind of stuff happens.

1:09:03.720 --> 1:09:05.639
<v Speaker 2>I think the lesson here, Jamie, is that we need

1:09:05.680 --> 1:09:09.719
<v Speaker 2>a secret police force empowered to kill on site anyone

1:09:09.760 --> 1:09:12.000
<v Speaker 2>who knows or talks to more than three other human

1:09:12.040 --> 1:09:14.160
<v Speaker 2>beings in the course of their life. You know, it's

1:09:14.439 --> 1:09:20.200
<v Speaker 2>just that shit down, that shit down. Yeah, as the occasion.

1:09:20.080 --> 1:09:23.200
<v Speaker 4>And as a person, you cannot expect the majority of

1:09:23.200 --> 1:09:26.280
<v Speaker 4>people to internalize more than three things about you, truly.

1:09:26.520 --> 1:09:29.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's that's it. I think you'd like to get the.

1:09:29.560 --> 1:09:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Better future now, Jamie. I think we know. I know

1:09:31.960 --> 1:09:33.519
<v Speaker 2>what I'm going to go to Kamala with if she

1:09:33.600 --> 1:09:36.200
<v Speaker 2>takes over from Joe. I think this could really this

1:09:36.240 --> 1:09:39.680
<v Speaker 2>could revitalize American politics. Imagine in America in which no

1:09:39.680 --> 1:09:42.559
<v Speaker 2>one knows more than two other people. You know, Wow,

1:09:42.640 --> 1:09:44.799
<v Speaker 2>that's a utopia in my mind.

1:09:45.200 --> 1:09:48.000
<v Speaker 4>We will become a proper country.

1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:52.280
<v Speaker 2>We could become a proper country. Yeah. So, another user

1:09:52.439 --> 1:09:56.800
<v Speaker 2>in that subreddit mentioned reading one of doctor Laura's other bestsellers,

1:09:56.840 --> 1:09:59.439
<v Speaker 2>The Proper Karen Feeding of Husbands and it was in

1:09:59.479 --> 1:10:02.000
<v Speaker 2>this book that doctor Laura publicly espoused her belief that

1:10:02.080 --> 1:10:05.360
<v Speaker 2>women have an ethical objection to have sex with their

1:10:05.439 --> 1:10:08.960
<v Speaker 2>husbands even if they don't want to have sex. This

1:10:09.160 --> 1:10:11.400
<v Speaker 2>is a staple of her advice. And it's interesting. I found

1:10:11.439 --> 1:10:14.479
<v Speaker 2>a whole review of this book on like a super

1:10:14.600 --> 1:10:18.760
<v Speaker 2>far right like homeschooling Christian nationalist website, and one of

1:10:18.800 --> 1:10:22.200
<v Speaker 2>the things they explain is that, like, look, women need love,

1:10:22.680 --> 1:10:25.880
<v Speaker 2>men need respect most of all, right, and you're not

1:10:26.000 --> 1:10:28.879
<v Speaker 2>respecting it. They don't say this, but like they advise

1:10:28.920 --> 1:10:30.720
<v Speaker 2>her book, and what she is saying is you are

1:10:30.720 --> 1:10:33.800
<v Speaker 2>not respecting your husband if you don't let him fuck you. Right.

1:10:34.680 --> 1:10:36.400
<v Speaker 2>It is that direct. And I have to.

1:10:36.360 --> 1:10:39.160
<v Speaker 3>Say, it's just like a pro marital rape.

1:10:39.200 --> 1:10:39.400
<v Speaker 5>Is that?

1:10:39.640 --> 1:10:40.960
<v Speaker 3>Is that where we're headed with this?

1:10:41.640 --> 1:10:43.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know more or less, but it's a little

1:10:43.280 --> 1:10:45.639
<v Speaker 2>differently fucked up than that. She is not saying women

1:10:45.640 --> 1:10:48.639
<v Speaker 2>don't have men don't have the right to not consent

1:10:48.800 --> 1:10:51.240
<v Speaker 2>to sex with their husbands. She is saying you are

1:10:51.320 --> 1:10:54.040
<v Speaker 2>being a bad wife if you ever say no, okay,

1:10:54.080 --> 1:10:56.559
<v Speaker 2>And there's a kind of a difference there. I'm not

1:10:56.600 --> 1:10:58.360
<v Speaker 2>saying what's better than the other, but it is a

1:10:58.360 --> 1:11:01.280
<v Speaker 2>little bit of a difference. Third thing, got a evil

1:11:01.360 --> 1:11:03.200
<v Speaker 2>third thing. And I want to play you a clip

1:11:03.240 --> 1:11:07.600
<v Speaker 2>of this from her Modern Day YouTube show and yeah,

1:11:07.760 --> 1:11:10.360
<v Speaker 2>just listen to this. This is her reading a listener letter.

1:11:10.800 --> 1:11:13.160
<v Speaker 7>I've never been married, so I'm soaking up all I

1:11:13.200 --> 1:11:16.040
<v Speaker 7>can to help me when I do marry. Is it

1:11:16.080 --> 1:11:18.479
<v Speaker 7>absolutely never okay to say no to your husband, even

1:11:18.479 --> 1:11:25.200
<v Speaker 7>when you're sick not being there yet. I'm curious what

1:11:25.280 --> 1:11:27.799
<v Speaker 7>tips you can give all women for overcoming not feeling

1:11:27.840 --> 1:11:30.640
<v Speaker 7>well to go forward and still have sex with their husbands.

1:11:36.920 --> 1:11:42.880
<v Speaker 7>Let's just say, if you're needing chaopectate or an ivy. Oh,

1:11:43.960 --> 1:11:48.280
<v Speaker 7>come on, that's just silly. If your husband is saying, hey, baby,

1:11:48.320 --> 1:11:50.880
<v Speaker 7>I want to pump you when you're sick, you've married

1:11:50.880 --> 1:11:55.920
<v Speaker 7>a jerk. We're talking about when you're feeling irritated or

1:11:56.000 --> 1:11:59.920
<v Speaker 7>I'm annoyed or I'm just too tired today and turn

1:12:00.160 --> 1:12:03.120
<v Speaker 7>away your man. One. This is the measure that men

1:12:03.240 --> 1:12:05.840
<v Speaker 7>have of how much we love them.

1:12:06.439 --> 1:12:06.559
<v Speaker 9>Now.

1:12:06.640 --> 1:12:09.880
<v Speaker 2>I love shit like this because it's both it's a

1:12:09.920 --> 1:12:12.200
<v Speaker 2>great one two of like, wow, this is a deeply

1:12:12.280 --> 1:12:14.760
<v Speaker 2>toxic thing to tell women, and then wow, oh this

1:12:14.840 --> 1:12:17.080
<v Speaker 2>is also a toxic thing to say to men. Great.

1:12:17.439 --> 1:12:21.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, wow, doctor Laura, you've finally done it a thought

1:12:21.360 --> 1:12:24.280
<v Speaker 4>that is coachingly terrible for everyone on earth.

1:12:24.960 --> 1:12:27.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she was really leading heavy with the women stuff.

1:12:27.240 --> 1:12:28.880
<v Speaker 2>But then at the end there, you as a man

1:12:29.080 --> 1:12:32.200
<v Speaker 2>only have value if someone's willing to let you fuck them, like,

1:12:32.280 --> 1:12:34.240
<v Speaker 2>oh we got there way to go.

1:12:34.479 --> 1:12:36.880
<v Speaker 4>Wow, her wig did a three hundred and sixty degree

1:12:36.880 --> 1:12:37.720
<v Speaker 4>spin at the end of that.

1:12:37.760 --> 1:12:38.439
<v Speaker 3>You just couldn't it.

1:12:38.439 --> 1:12:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Sure does. Her hair is doing something else said this

1:12:41.479 --> 1:12:45.799
<v Speaker 2>fort Now that's very gross, right, I will say it's

1:12:47.080 --> 1:12:48.759
<v Speaker 2>this is a woman who used to have an audience

1:12:48.760 --> 1:12:51.760
<v Speaker 2>of eighteen million people listening every week, right, at least

1:12:51.800 --> 1:12:54.639
<v Speaker 2>reaching that many people. Radio numbers are a little wonky,

1:12:55.439 --> 1:12:58.240
<v Speaker 2>as are all numbers that anyone in entertainment ever gives

1:12:58.320 --> 1:12:59.080
<v Speaker 2>or gets.

1:13:00.200 --> 1:13:02.080
<v Speaker 4>And then if they decide they don't like it, they'll

1:13:02.120 --> 1:13:03.360
<v Speaker 4>just delete it forever.

1:13:03.760 --> 1:13:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and this view this video has one hundred and

1:13:07.600 --> 1:13:10.800
<v Speaker 2>eighty two thousand views in fourteen years. Doctor Laura has

1:13:10.800 --> 1:13:14.240
<v Speaker 2>forty one thousand subscribers, so more people than you'd hope for.

1:13:14.439 --> 1:13:18.000
<v Speaker 2>But she is definitely not diminished, shug in along the

1:13:18.040 --> 1:13:22.519
<v Speaker 2>way that she used to. Right, Yeah, now, I find

1:13:22.920 --> 1:13:26.559
<v Speaker 2>what she's saying here especially funny because another major line

1:13:26.640 --> 1:13:28.960
<v Speaker 2>in her again, because she's saying here like, you have

1:13:29.040 --> 1:13:32.960
<v Speaker 2>to fuck your husband whenever he wants, because like, your

1:13:33.000 --> 1:13:36.080
<v Speaker 2>only value is your ability to make him feel wanted

1:13:36.240 --> 1:13:39.200
<v Speaker 2>by being able to have sex with someone. Right in

1:13:39.280 --> 1:13:43.040
<v Speaker 2>the other thing that she says frequently is women today

1:13:43.080 --> 1:13:46.200
<v Speaker 2>are pigs, and women today are pigs for seeing life

1:13:46.200 --> 1:13:48.639
<v Speaker 2>purely in terms of like sex and short term pleasure,

1:13:48.880 --> 1:13:51.200
<v Speaker 2>when the thing she's making clear is that the only

1:13:51.640 --> 1:13:54.479
<v Speaker 2>relationship men and women can have that is valuable to

1:13:54.520 --> 1:13:58.760
<v Speaker 2>the other involves sex. So it's why it's beautifully incoherent.

1:13:58.960 --> 1:14:00.799
<v Speaker 2>And I want to play you a clip for calling

1:14:00.920 --> 1:14:02.520
<v Speaker 2>modern women pigs.

1:14:02.720 --> 1:14:06.160
<v Speaker 7>I was raised by my grandma listening to you, I

1:14:06.200 --> 1:14:09.080
<v Speaker 7>remember growing up hearing that all too often women strive

1:14:09.160 --> 1:14:14.800
<v Speaker 7>for short term gratification instead of long term satisfaction.

1:14:15.280 --> 1:14:17.439
<v Speaker 3>Now I'm reapediting on really use.

1:14:17.360 --> 1:14:19.920
<v Speaker 7>A refresher in that course. Is there any way I

1:14:19.920 --> 1:14:22.960
<v Speaker 7>can receive an update or something to refresh my own

1:14:23.000 --> 1:14:26.400
<v Speaker 7>memory on these talks? It would be the utmost and

1:14:26.439 --> 1:14:28.600
<v Speaker 7>helpful as to where I am in life trying to

1:14:28.640 --> 1:14:36.879
<v Speaker 7>remember about what was said about long term satisfaction. Wow,

1:14:37.439 --> 1:14:41.800
<v Speaker 7>This is so timely because these days most women out

1:14:41.880 --> 1:14:44.400
<v Speaker 7>there are pigs.

1:14:45.479 --> 1:14:46.559
<v Speaker 3>Are you shocked that I said that?

1:14:46.840 --> 1:14:47.240
<v Speaker 7>Oh?

1:14:47.360 --> 1:14:48.640
<v Speaker 3>Do you think I'm talking about you?

1:14:48.840 --> 1:14:53.759
<v Speaker 7>I might be. Is it one, two, three minutes, three hours,

1:14:53.840 --> 1:14:56.960
<v Speaker 7>three days, three dates, and you're already having sex with somebody?

1:14:57.000 --> 1:15:00.600
<v Speaker 7>I don't know. That's the short term gratification. That's the

1:15:00.640 --> 1:15:04.000
<v Speaker 7>pretending there's a relationship. That's the pretending that somebody gives

1:15:04.000 --> 1:15:07.360
<v Speaker 7>a darn about you. That's pretending that somebody respects you,

1:15:07.640 --> 1:15:11.280
<v Speaker 7>cares about you. You know what, here's the deal.

1:15:11.840 --> 1:15:13.080
<v Speaker 3>You know he's in love with don't.

1:15:13.120 --> 1:15:14.519
<v Speaker 4>I don't need to know what the deal is. No,

1:15:14.800 --> 1:15:19.080
<v Speaker 4>you don't claw hit me, doctor Laura. See if I give.

1:15:18.960 --> 1:15:19.800
<v Speaker 3>A rat's ass.

1:15:20.160 --> 1:15:21.920
<v Speaker 2>I hate to say it, though, but that's also a

1:15:21.960 --> 1:15:24.519
<v Speaker 2>man like. That's a perfect example, Like, Yeah, she's really

1:15:24.560 --> 1:15:29.360
<v Speaker 2>good as a broad Like she's good at understanding how

1:15:29.400 --> 1:15:33.960
<v Speaker 2>to speak for an audience, right, Like the way in

1:15:34.000 --> 1:15:36.040
<v Speaker 2>which her voice builds up, the way in which she

1:15:36.240 --> 1:15:40.799
<v Speaker 2>changes her voice, like the different tones uses her cadence,

1:15:40.880 --> 1:15:44.400
<v Speaker 2>the way in which she organizes that response is just like, Yeah,

1:15:44.439 --> 1:15:47.080
<v Speaker 2>that's that's someone who has been broadcasting for more than

1:15:47.080 --> 1:15:50.800
<v Speaker 2>I've been alive, right, like, yeah, I.

1:15:50.840 --> 1:15:55.599
<v Speaker 1>Enjoyed the whenever she said pretending, the yellow font came

1:15:55.680 --> 1:15:58.280
<v Speaker 1>up on the screen in big letters and said pretending.

1:15:58.479 --> 1:15:59.920
<v Speaker 3>And it's kind of like the more you know.

1:16:00.600 --> 1:16:04.080
<v Speaker 2>Look, she's better as a broadcaster than her editors as

1:16:04.080 --> 1:16:05.000
<v Speaker 2>a video editor.

1:16:05.160 --> 1:16:05.360
<v Speaker 7>I know.

1:16:05.800 --> 1:16:11.760
<v Speaker 4>Look, I hope Derek was editing that shit on iMovie with.

1:16:11.880 --> 1:16:14.120
<v Speaker 2>A fucking why right there in his name.

1:16:14.479 --> 1:16:18.360
<v Speaker 3>I hope he charged a hefty hourly rate to edit

1:16:18.439 --> 1:16:23.400
<v Speaker 3>Mommy's little videos. I yeah, that was that was bleak.

1:16:23.760 --> 1:16:27.679
<v Speaker 3>I mean, she is clearly a master at finding any

1:16:27.720 --> 1:16:32.040
<v Speaker 3>angle to make a person real or imaginary, to feel

1:16:32.240 --> 1:16:35.040
<v Speaker 3>horrible about themselves. But it doesn't I don't know, I've

1:16:35.160 --> 1:16:38.479
<v Speaker 3>like this specific style of shaming doesn't hit the way

1:16:38.520 --> 1:16:40.320
<v Speaker 3>it once did. I don't know, what do you think?

1:16:40.760 --> 1:16:43.439
<v Speaker 2>No? No, I mean that's you've seen her decline, right,

1:16:43.479 --> 1:16:46.200
<v Speaker 2>And part of it is that she just isn't She's

1:16:46.240 --> 1:16:49.479
<v Speaker 2>always been kind of culture war adjacent, but never as

1:16:49.600 --> 1:16:51.800
<v Speaker 2>much as people are today. I think she would have

1:16:51.800 --> 1:16:55.439
<v Speaker 2>found it kind of undignified. She would never do. Not

1:16:55.520 --> 1:16:57.679
<v Speaker 2>that she's any better, but like the degree to which

1:16:57.720 --> 1:17:01.719
<v Speaker 2>all of these people become ricatures of themselves in every

1:17:01.760 --> 1:17:04.519
<v Speaker 2>form of media, imaginable. I don't think she would have

1:17:04.520 --> 1:17:07.479
<v Speaker 2>been comfortable with. I think she wants too much control

1:17:07.520 --> 1:17:11.040
<v Speaker 2>over her image to get that close to a bunch

1:17:11.040 --> 1:17:14.360
<v Speaker 2>of other media figures, right, I think, yeah, Yeah, that's

1:17:14.439 --> 1:17:15.360
<v Speaker 2>my feeling of it.

1:17:16.120 --> 1:17:18.280
<v Speaker 3>I just wonder, I mean, honestly, because she's well into

1:17:18.320 --> 1:17:20.760
<v Speaker 3>her seventies at this point, I wonder if there's just

1:17:20.800 --> 1:17:23.439
<v Speaker 3>a part of it is like at some point I

1:17:23.520 --> 1:17:26.479
<v Speaker 3>wonder this about you know, older people who are involved

1:17:26.479 --> 1:17:29.040
<v Speaker 3>in the culture wars conversation, I'm like, how are you

1:17:29.160 --> 1:17:32.560
<v Speaker 3>not just fucking exhausting, not just tired? Exhausting?

1:17:33.320 --> 1:17:36.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm thirty six that I fucking hate it.

1:17:37.320 --> 1:17:41.600
<v Speaker 4>It's exhausting to like bear witness to much less participated.

1:17:41.640 --> 1:17:44.559
<v Speaker 3>I would about it like she might just be fucking tired.

1:17:45.200 --> 1:17:47.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's because some of these I don't

1:17:47.479 --> 1:17:50.240
<v Speaker 2>think she is quite although she has some of that.

1:17:50.320 --> 1:17:53.000
<v Speaker 2>But guys like rush Limba were born to be culture

1:17:53.000 --> 1:17:56.519
<v Speaker 2>war ghoules, whereas most of us, people like you and me,

1:17:56.600 --> 1:17:58.679
<v Speaker 2>who have grown up in the middle of this fucking

1:17:58.720 --> 1:18:01.799
<v Speaker 2>thing they helped start. We maybe have gotten involved by nature.

1:18:01.800 --> 1:18:04.160
<v Speaker 2>But I don't know about you, Jimmy. My ideal life

1:18:04.439 --> 1:18:07.439
<v Speaker 2>is being a weirdo with like a radio show talking

1:18:07.439 --> 1:18:10.679
<v Speaker 2>about cryptids who lives in the woods and one day

1:18:10.760 --> 1:18:13.960
<v Speaker 2>just disappears while hunting for big Wooter, big Bigfoot or

1:18:13.960 --> 1:18:16.920
<v Speaker 2>one of those one of those worms in Mongolia that

1:18:17.000 --> 1:18:19.720
<v Speaker 2>has lightning powers. That's what I would like to disappear.

1:18:19.880 --> 1:18:24.479
<v Speaker 4>Searches that was Is that what what Dune was about?

1:18:24.720 --> 1:18:25.360
<v Speaker 3>Don't answer.

1:18:25.439 --> 1:18:28.080
<v Speaker 2>I think Dune might have been inspired by that Mongolian worm,

1:18:28.160 --> 1:18:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Jamie awesome. That may or may not exist. You never know. Look,

1:18:33.160 --> 1:18:36.559
<v Speaker 2>nobody's found the Great CON's tomb, and nobody's found one

1:18:36.560 --> 1:18:39.160
<v Speaker 2>of those worms. Put him together about being about a boom.

1:18:39.200 --> 1:18:41.599
<v Speaker 2>You got a pretty good fucking high adventure novel.

1:18:41.760 --> 1:18:45.800
<v Speaker 3>You know, it does feel I mean, like clearly. You know,

1:18:45.840 --> 1:18:50.519
<v Speaker 3>Doctor Laura has a clear place in the pantheon of

1:18:51.439 --> 1:18:53.000
<v Speaker 3>twentieth century grifters.

1:18:53.640 --> 1:18:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And she does very well at

1:18:56.160 --> 1:18:58.160
<v Speaker 2>her height. The show is on four hundred and fifty

1:18:58.280 --> 1:19:02.280
<v Speaker 2>radio stations. She's second only to Rush Limbaugh. This is

1:19:02.360 --> 1:19:05.559
<v Speaker 2>when she starts receiving a bunch of awards. She gets

1:19:05.560 --> 1:19:09.439
<v Speaker 2>one from the Department of Defense eventually, and then she

1:19:09.479 --> 1:19:12.720
<v Speaker 2>gets she snubs Bill Balance at an awards ceremony and

1:19:12.800 --> 1:19:15.760
<v Speaker 2>this is why he sells her photos to a foreign website.

1:19:16.000 --> 1:19:19.600
<v Speaker 2>Slashinger is rightfully furious. She sues him for invasion of

1:19:19.640 --> 1:19:24.679
<v Speaker 2>privacy and copyright violation. The court ruled that she had

1:19:24.760 --> 1:19:29.160
<v Speaker 2>no right to the images, and the consite puts them

1:19:29.160 --> 1:19:31.559
<v Speaker 2>back up. I'm not an expert on this case, but

1:19:31.600 --> 1:19:34.920
<v Speaker 2>it sounds pretty fucking gross. She does not appeal. She

1:19:35.000 --> 1:19:37.400
<v Speaker 2>tells her audience the photos were taken at a low

1:19:37.400 --> 1:19:39.880
<v Speaker 2>point in her life, and since she was going through

1:19:39.960 --> 1:19:42.960
<v Speaker 2>a divorce at the time, she didn't have moral authority

1:19:43.000 --> 1:19:43.439
<v Speaker 2>to talk.

1:19:44.160 --> 1:19:47.439
<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, it's it doesn't matter at what. It just

1:19:47.520 --> 1:19:51.400
<v Speaker 3>matters that it's illegal to distribute, right.

1:19:51.479 --> 1:19:53.040
<v Speaker 2>So that's where I am on this. It's like, we

1:19:53.160 --> 1:19:54.519
<v Speaker 2>just shouldn't be allowed to do that at all.

1:19:54.920 --> 1:19:57.760
<v Speaker 4>We shouldn't have to be That feels like, yeah, the

1:19:57.760 --> 1:20:00.800
<v Speaker 4>doctor Laura kicking in of like oh well this, you know,

1:20:01.000 --> 1:20:02.759
<v Speaker 4>there's a reason that this happened.

1:20:02.800 --> 1:20:04.640
<v Speaker 3>It's like, no, actually, this is the rare time that

1:20:04.680 --> 1:20:05.479
<v Speaker 3>I'm on your side.

1:20:05.840 --> 1:20:08.599
<v Speaker 2>No, I shouldn't sue him, and I wish the case

1:20:08.640 --> 1:20:10.840
<v Speaker 2>had gone your way. Yeah, yeah, I think it doesn't

1:20:10.880 --> 1:20:14.320
<v Speaker 2>because of some weird like the copyright issue is a

1:20:14.320 --> 1:20:16.280
<v Speaker 2>big part of it, right, there's something weird about like

1:20:16.320 --> 1:20:19.160
<v Speaker 2>their professional relationship that I think it's I don't know, though,

1:20:19.160 --> 1:20:20.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to don't want to talk out of

1:20:20.360 --> 1:20:22.559
<v Speaker 2>my ass on it because she's in the right there.

1:20:23.120 --> 1:20:25.639
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen ninety nine, she signs a deal with Paramount

1:20:25.640 --> 1:20:29.120
<v Speaker 2>to create a talk show, which is a disaster. Laura

1:20:29.280 --> 1:20:31.600
<v Speaker 2>does not have the kind of face charisma that you

1:20:31.680 --> 1:20:34.120
<v Speaker 2>need to be a compelling TV lead, And there's also

1:20:34.200 --> 1:20:37.960
<v Speaker 2>something inherently shameful about what she does, right, Like, you

1:20:38.000 --> 1:20:40.559
<v Speaker 2>don't want to see somebody be that meat. You might

1:20:40.600 --> 1:20:42.439
<v Speaker 2>want to hear it when you're driving and you're in

1:20:42.479 --> 1:20:45.120
<v Speaker 2>a bad mood because you're commuting, but you don't necessarily

1:20:45.160 --> 1:20:45.880
<v Speaker 2>want to see it.

1:20:46.080 --> 1:20:48.400
<v Speaker 3>I don't. I mean, but if that were true, wouldn't

1:20:48.560 --> 1:20:51.560
<v Speaker 3>that be true of like Rush Limbaugh and Jordan Peterson

1:20:51.640 --> 1:20:53.479
<v Speaker 3>and all those guys that we see all the time.

1:20:54.000 --> 1:20:56.519
<v Speaker 2>Rush Limbaugh also has a TV show that doesn't really

1:20:56.560 --> 1:21:00.360
<v Speaker 2>work out in the okay, Jordan Peterson comes around and

1:21:00.479 --> 1:21:04.400
<v Speaker 2>is a different kind of guy. You know, he's related

1:21:04.439 --> 1:21:06.240
<v Speaker 2>to both of them, but for one thing, he's a

1:21:06.240 --> 1:21:11.360
<v Speaker 2>lot more like of a lower tempo of energy usually, right,

1:21:11.560 --> 1:21:14.200
<v Speaker 2>Like that's part of how you know, he has his

1:21:14.400 --> 1:21:17.559
<v Speaker 2>times when he's clearly manic or on whatever weird drugs's

1:21:17.640 --> 1:21:20.280
<v Speaker 2>daughter convinced him to take. But the Jordan Peterson that

1:21:20.320 --> 1:21:23.559
<v Speaker 2>initially got famous is like a very good at sounding

1:21:23.600 --> 1:21:26.360
<v Speaker 2>like a cultured and calm academic for the most part

1:21:26.439 --> 1:21:28.080
<v Speaker 2>until he has his moments of.

1:21:28.040 --> 1:21:31.000
<v Speaker 3>Passion, until he goes raw meat mode.

1:21:30.720 --> 1:21:33.800
<v Speaker 2>Right right, whereas doctor Laura is kind of immediately mean

1:21:33.840 --> 1:21:39.599
<v Speaker 2>to whoever calls you know anyway the show flops. Laura's

1:21:39.600 --> 1:21:42.120
<v Speaker 2>desperation over the show flopping is evident in the fact

1:21:42.160 --> 1:21:44.360
<v Speaker 2>that the series had to bring in paid ringers to

1:21:44.439 --> 1:21:47.880
<v Speaker 2>generate conflicts because it was so bad. They did this

1:21:47.960 --> 1:21:51.880
<v Speaker 2>lazily on two consecutive days. The same researcher employed by

1:21:51.920 --> 1:21:54.720
<v Speaker 2>the show is brought into play two different people. The

1:21:54.760 --> 1:21:57.200
<v Speaker 2>first is like a college a student who gets money

1:21:57.200 --> 1:21:59.680
<v Speaker 2>to write essays for other students, and the second is

1:21:59.680 --> 1:22:01.840
<v Speaker 2>a woman living with her boyfriend training decide if she

1:22:01.880 --> 1:22:05.120
<v Speaker 2>could she should get married. The show has its last

1:22:05.120 --> 1:22:09.719
<v Speaker 2>episode in March of two thousand and one. Now, Jamie,

1:22:10.000 --> 1:22:11.599
<v Speaker 2>I know that you and I both know about another

1:22:11.680 --> 1:22:14.880
<v Speaker 2>terrible thing that happened in two thousand and one. You

1:22:14.920 --> 1:22:18.400
<v Speaker 2>know horrible. I think it's changed my life. I know

1:22:18.439 --> 1:22:21.879
<v Speaker 2>it's changed your life. And that's when doctor Laura briefly

1:22:21.880 --> 1:22:26.000
<v Speaker 2>had a conflict with the gay community. Yes, this was

1:22:26.040 --> 1:22:28.200
<v Speaker 2>at a different times. The only other thing that happened

1:22:28.200 --> 1:22:29.760
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and one that I can recall after

1:22:29.800 --> 1:22:31.240
<v Speaker 2>March only.

1:22:31.640 --> 1:22:34.400
<v Speaker 3>Shrek came out, you know, Mahalandra came out.

1:22:34.360 --> 1:22:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, other things, and doctor Laura calls homosexuality a

1:22:38.439 --> 1:22:44.240
<v Speaker 2>biological error. Now Laura kind of immediately has to backpedal.

1:22:44.400 --> 1:22:47.920
<v Speaker 2>This would not happen today. She would grift off of this.

1:22:48.000 --> 1:22:50.360
<v Speaker 2>She would certainly be fetted by the far right right

1:22:51.160 --> 1:22:53.720
<v Speaker 2>or the normal right at this point, just by the right.

1:22:54.320 --> 1:22:57.080
<v Speaker 2>She can't. It's weird because two thousand and one, in

1:22:57.160 --> 1:22:59.599
<v Speaker 2>so many other ways is so much worse a period

1:22:59.680 --> 1:23:03.040
<v Speaker 2>for like queer rights in this country. But at this

1:23:03.160 --> 1:23:07.080
<v Speaker 2>point there's enough like glad and stuff, there's letter writing

1:23:07.120 --> 1:23:09.760
<v Speaker 2>campaigns against her people cause enough of a problem that

1:23:09.800 --> 1:23:13.400
<v Speaker 2>she has to apologize. And her point on this is

1:23:13.439 --> 1:23:16.679
<v Speaker 2>always again, you can really see that the narratives haven't

1:23:16.720 --> 1:23:18.960
<v Speaker 2>calcified to the point that they are at this point,

1:23:19.000 --> 1:23:21.080
<v Speaker 2>because while she says a bunch of horrible things like

1:23:21.160 --> 1:23:23.800
<v Speaker 2>gay people. It's not. It's the result of basically a

1:23:23.840 --> 1:23:26.920
<v Speaker 2>biological glitch, right, rather than something that we see in

1:23:27.040 --> 1:23:29.760
<v Speaker 2>every species that reproduces sexual.

1:23:30.080 --> 1:23:31.760
<v Speaker 3>The beginning of time. Yeah.

1:23:31.840 --> 1:23:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but she also says, well we should. This is

1:23:34.439 --> 1:23:36.519
<v Speaker 2>also fucked up in a way. When kids get too

1:23:36.600 --> 1:23:39.240
<v Speaker 2>old for good straight parents to want them, gay men

1:23:39.280 --> 1:23:42.519
<v Speaker 2>should be able to adopt them.

1:23:41.600 --> 1:23:47.120
<v Speaker 4>Which is such a weird that's I've never even heard that.

1:23:47.600 --> 1:23:52.080
<v Speaker 2>It's honestly impressive gymnastics there, Like, you just have to

1:23:52.160 --> 1:23:55.960
<v Speaker 2>hand it to her sometimes, Yeah, what the fuck. Yeah,

1:23:55.960 --> 1:23:58.000
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know how to make gay people should be

1:23:58.040 --> 1:24:01.840
<v Speaker 2>allowed to adopt kids horrible, but you did it. Wow,

1:24:02.920 --> 1:24:06.760
<v Speaker 2>And in two ways, it's amazing stuff. Laura continued her

1:24:06.800 --> 1:24:10.280
<v Speaker 2>by now time warn tradition of giving people advice. The

1:24:10.320 --> 1:24:12.479
<v Speaker 2>best example of her giving advice that is like the

1:24:12.479 --> 1:24:15.760
<v Speaker 2>opposite of stuff that she actually did from later in

1:24:15.800 --> 1:24:18.439
<v Speaker 2>her career, is that she would repeatedly tell people you

1:24:18.479 --> 1:24:20.080
<v Speaker 2>got to honor your parents. You should try to have

1:24:20.120 --> 1:24:21.880
<v Speaker 2>a good relationship with your parents. If your kid, you

1:24:21.920 --> 1:24:24.960
<v Speaker 2>should have a good relationship, you know, with your parents,

1:24:25.080 --> 1:24:27.080
<v Speaker 2>and you know, the best thing that a kid can

1:24:27.439 --> 1:24:31.440
<v Speaker 2>or that a parent can have as grandkids YadA, YadA, YadA.

1:24:31.520 --> 1:24:33.840
<v Speaker 2>In real life, she briefly hires her mom to be

1:24:33.880 --> 1:24:37.200
<v Speaker 2>her secretary and then fires her mom, and then her

1:24:37.200 --> 1:24:40.960
<v Speaker 2>mom goes on to spend her next remaining years alone

1:24:41.000 --> 1:24:43.840
<v Speaker 2>in a condo. She dies and isn't found for like

1:24:43.920 --> 1:24:46.760
<v Speaker 2>three months and may have been murdered. We don't know

1:24:46.800 --> 1:24:49.960
<v Speaker 2>if she was murdered or not. It's a little bit

1:24:49.960 --> 1:24:52.240
<v Speaker 2>of a mystery. But here's what Laura herself wrote on

1:24:52.280 --> 1:24:55.040
<v Speaker 2>the matter. One day, the Beverly Hills police called me

1:24:55.120 --> 1:24:56.880
<v Speaker 2>she had a condo in Beverly Hills, to let me

1:24:56.920 --> 1:24:58.519
<v Speaker 2>know my mother was dead and had been dead on

1:24:58.520 --> 1:25:00.559
<v Speaker 2>the floor of her apartment for about four months. There

1:25:00.560 --> 1:25:02.559
<v Speaker 2>were no friends, and none of her neighbors were close.

1:25:02.680 --> 1:25:05.519
<v Speaker 2>Nobody noticed. They said it was probably a homicide, but

1:25:05.600 --> 1:25:07.840
<v Speaker 2>not a robbery. When the police came to my helm

1:25:07.880 --> 1:25:09.640
<v Speaker 2>to ask me questions, I told them it couldn't be

1:25:09.680 --> 1:25:12.040
<v Speaker 2>a homicide. I said that to murder someone personal, you

1:25:12.120 --> 1:25:14.360
<v Speaker 2>had to be close enough to begin to hate. Well

1:25:14.400 --> 1:25:17.160
<v Speaker 2>that nobody got close to her. The final conclusion was

1:25:17.280 --> 1:25:23.040
<v Speaker 2>unknown cause of death, but not homicide. So no comment,

1:25:23.640 --> 1:25:29.599
<v Speaker 2>no comment, MESSI MESSI fucking brutal. Yeah, that's that's brutal. Now,

1:25:29.640 --> 1:25:31.759
<v Speaker 2>I will say, Jamie, I think I solve this case.

1:25:32.479 --> 1:25:34.960
<v Speaker 2>I think I know something that Laura didn't at the time. Right,

1:25:35.000 --> 1:25:37.240
<v Speaker 2>so the police think this is a homicide. You know,

1:25:37.320 --> 1:25:39.920
<v Speaker 2>maybe the serial music can start playing now. The police

1:25:39.920 --> 1:25:42.679
<v Speaker 2>believed this is a homicide, but Laura says her mom

1:25:42.760 --> 1:25:46.759
<v Speaker 2>wasn't close enough to anybody to be murdered for personal reasons.

1:25:46.840 --> 1:25:50.960
<v Speaker 2>But in the book Vicky Bain wrote about Doctor Laura,

1:25:51.000 --> 1:25:55.040
<v Speaker 2>it opens with an interview with Yolanda, doctor Laura's mother,

1:25:55.400 --> 1:26:01.200
<v Speaker 2>from inside her house. Vicky describes the house she seems

1:26:01.280 --> 1:26:04.680
<v Speaker 2>friendly with doctor Laura's mom. Am I saying that biographer

1:26:04.800 --> 1:26:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Vicky Bain murdered doctor Laura's mother for some personal reason.

1:26:09.280 --> 1:26:13.760
<v Speaker 3>Not film never know to listen to the next.

1:26:13.520 --> 1:26:17.519
<v Speaker 2>Eleven episodes of my podcast on who killed Doctor Flora's mother?

1:26:18.120 --> 1:26:20.840
<v Speaker 2>Which is okay to joke about a little because she

1:26:20.960 --> 1:26:21.519
<v Speaker 2>hated her?

1:26:21.680 --> 1:26:23.759
<v Speaker 3>You know, yeah, yeah.

1:26:23.800 --> 1:26:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's not Who cares? What are you going to do?

1:26:26.160 --> 1:26:28.679
<v Speaker 4>And then I will start a rival podcast called Vicky

1:26:28.720 --> 1:26:30.400
<v Speaker 4>Bain Innocent in years.

1:26:30.160 --> 1:26:33.639
<v Speaker 2>One, Jamie and I are going to grift so much

1:26:33.680 --> 1:26:35.280
<v Speaker 2>money off of this woman, who, as far as I

1:26:35.280 --> 1:26:38.639
<v Speaker 2>could tell, published two unauthorized biographies back in the nineties

1:26:39.000 --> 1:26:42.040
<v Speaker 2>and then did not publish any other books. Hey, people,

1:26:42.120 --> 1:26:45.920
<v Speaker 2>of a person might be a fake name that a

1:26:45.920 --> 1:26:52.799
<v Speaker 2>publisher made up to publish this book. No way to know. Anyway.

1:26:53.080 --> 1:26:55.240
<v Speaker 2>Up to the mid auts, Doctor Laura remained one of

1:26:55.280 --> 1:26:58.240
<v Speaker 2>the most successful broadcasters on the planet. All of this

1:26:58.280 --> 1:27:01.880
<v Speaker 2>took a disastrous turn on August twenty ten. Up to

1:27:01.920 --> 1:27:05.640
<v Speaker 2>that point, doctor Laura was like the number five broadcaster

1:27:05.760 --> 1:27:09.160
<v Speaker 2>in the country by audience. But on that broadcast, while

1:27:09.200 --> 1:27:12.320
<v Speaker 2>talking about modern comedy, she says this.

1:27:12.840 --> 1:27:14.679
<v Speaker 3>Black guys use it all the time.

1:27:14.800 --> 1:27:17.599
<v Speaker 7>Turn on HBO, listen to a black comic, and all

1:27:17.640 --> 1:27:19.000
<v Speaker 7>you hear is nigger, nigger, nigger.

1:27:19.680 --> 1:27:20.400
<v Speaker 3>I don't get it.

1:27:20.439 --> 1:27:23.200
<v Speaker 7>If anybody needs anybody without enough melon and says it,

1:27:23.200 --> 1:27:26.400
<v Speaker 7>it's a horrible thing. But when black people say it,

1:27:26.400 --> 1:27:27.240
<v Speaker 7>it's affectionate.

1:27:27.360 --> 1:27:28.360
<v Speaker 3>It's very confusing.

1:27:29.040 --> 1:27:34.559
<v Speaker 2>Jesus Christ, Doctor Laura, Oh oh, she goes on, because

1:27:35.280 --> 1:27:37.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to play all of this. Maybe I should,

1:27:37.560 --> 1:27:39.720
<v Speaker 2>but like the lady she's on the phone with, who

1:27:39.720 --> 1:27:41.960
<v Speaker 2>I think is a black woman, says, well, you were

1:27:42.000 --> 1:27:45.439
<v Speaker 2>like really comfortable saying a lot of times on air,

1:27:45.760 --> 1:27:49.200
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of weird. And Laura. Laura gets really angry

1:27:49.240 --> 1:27:52.640
<v Speaker 2>and uses it eleven more times, just being like, you know,

1:27:52.720 --> 1:27:56.599
<v Speaker 2>like yeah. Then she says a lot of blacks only

1:27:56.680 --> 1:27:59.840
<v Speaker 2>voted for Obama because he was half black, And when

1:27:59.840 --> 1:28:03.240
<v Speaker 2>the collar disagrees, Laura says, don't nua acpe me.

1:28:03.840 --> 1:28:13.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh so Jesus, that's not great, Jesus great.

1:28:13.720 --> 1:28:15.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, quite a bit.

1:28:15.160 --> 1:28:18.439
<v Speaker 3>So this is what this is what does her end professionally.

1:28:18.600 --> 1:28:21.719
<v Speaker 2>As a big name. Yeah. She issues an apology later

1:28:21.760 --> 1:28:22.680
<v Speaker 2>that evening.

1:28:22.439 --> 1:28:25.559
<v Speaker 3>And I mean it's like Air's fucking something.

1:28:25.720 --> 1:28:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, basically at the end of you think probably there

1:28:28.160 --> 1:28:30.160
<v Speaker 2>was a backroom deal. She doesn't immediately quit, but she

1:28:30.240 --> 1:28:32.160
<v Speaker 2>quits at the end of the year. She goes, I

1:28:32.200 --> 1:28:35.000
<v Speaker 2>think it's she goes on Letterman to be like, I'm

1:28:35.080 --> 1:28:38.040
<v Speaker 2>quitting in order to regain my First Amendment rights to

1:28:38.080 --> 1:28:39.559
<v Speaker 2>say whatever is on my mind.

1:28:40.040 --> 1:28:40.320
<v Speaker 9>Yeah.

1:28:40.360 --> 1:28:43.720
<v Speaker 3>Good on Letterman for letting her give her perspective.

1:28:43.920 --> 1:28:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank god. But nobody really wanted to hear it

1:28:46.840 --> 1:28:49.240
<v Speaker 2>after this point, even though she is still doing it.

1:28:49.400 --> 1:28:53.360
<v Speaker 2>So well, there you go, you know.

1:28:53.920 --> 1:28:57.519
<v Speaker 3>At very least, uh, it doesn't seem like she is

1:28:57.720 --> 1:29:02.240
<v Speaker 3>endured meaningfully outside of her only demographic It seems like

1:29:02.280 --> 1:29:04.839
<v Speaker 3>it's ever been like generationally.

1:29:04.439 --> 1:29:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Bill Nobody knows who fucking Bill Balance was. Right now,

1:29:07.720 --> 1:29:09.960
<v Speaker 2>we do live with his I mean, Howard Stern's still

1:29:09.960 --> 1:29:13.360
<v Speaker 2>on the air. Not to say that, but we like

1:29:13.479 --> 1:29:16.960
<v Speaker 2>we are part of like the the the We exist

1:29:17.000 --> 1:29:20.120
<v Speaker 2>in a space that he helped make right and a

1:29:20.160 --> 1:29:22.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of the worst people on the Internet today, a

1:29:22.680 --> 1:29:25.280
<v Speaker 2>lot like Jordan Peterson being the example we keep going

1:29:25.320 --> 1:29:27.680
<v Speaker 2>back to. I don't know if they wouldn't. I'm not

1:29:27.680 --> 1:29:29.639
<v Speaker 2>going to say there would be no Jordan Peterson without

1:29:29.680 --> 1:29:31.559
<v Speaker 2>doctor Laura, but he would have had a lot more

1:29:31.640 --> 1:29:34.400
<v Speaker 2>work to do to make that space if she hadn't

1:29:34.439 --> 1:29:35.799
<v Speaker 2>been there first, right.

1:29:36.160 --> 1:29:39.679
<v Speaker 3>Right, and and make no mistake, I believe in doctor

1:29:39.760 --> 1:29:42.160
<v Speaker 3>Jordan Peterson. I believe he would have found a way,

1:29:43.120 --> 1:29:48.400
<v Speaker 3>but you know certainly didn't didn't hurt. This is fascinating that.

1:29:48.320 --> 1:29:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Jordan Peterson finds a way.

1:29:50.880 --> 1:29:53.639
<v Speaker 3>Wow, from from just a looming presence in the Barnes

1:29:53.680 --> 1:29:58.720
<v Speaker 3>and Noble Aisle to knowing that she is I don't know,

1:30:00.120 --> 1:30:03.400
<v Speaker 3>no small part made some of our worst schools possible.

1:30:04.920 --> 1:30:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, and also made the one of the sweaters and

1:30:07.800 --> 1:30:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Sister Act and the boys costumes in Hook.

1:30:11.200 --> 1:30:14.320
<v Speaker 4>If you remember nothing else you know that feels that

1:30:14.360 --> 1:30:15.240
<v Speaker 4>feels about right?

1:30:15.479 --> 1:30:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that I am going.

1:30:17.320 --> 1:30:20.519
<v Speaker 3>To rewatch the Shock tonight. And guess which sweat I

1:30:20.520 --> 1:30:21.160
<v Speaker 3>could rewatch?

1:30:21.320 --> 1:30:23.719
<v Speaker 2>You know what, let's all rewatch Sister Act.

1:30:24.560 --> 1:30:26.360
<v Speaker 3>That's a very gentle to watch.

1:30:26.120 --> 1:30:30.280
<v Speaker 2>A good Yeah, yeah, rewatched Sister Act. We'll watch a

1:30:30.320 --> 1:30:33.479
<v Speaker 2>good TNG episode where she played where she plays guy,

1:30:33.479 --> 1:30:35.320
<v Speaker 2>and maybe the one where they go back in time

1:30:35.360 --> 1:30:38.640
<v Speaker 2>and meet Mark Twain. He's got a ridiculous mustache.

1:30:39.000 --> 1:30:42.439
<v Speaker 4>And most importantly, we I, oh, I know we had

1:30:42.479 --> 1:30:44.120
<v Speaker 4>an episode of Lower Decks about that.

1:30:44.600 --> 1:30:47.040
<v Speaker 3>Uh huh, how could you not?

1:30:47.760 --> 1:30:50.719
<v Speaker 4>Most importantly, well, we'll go back and watch the Christine

1:30:50.720 --> 1:30:52.000
<v Speaker 4>Baranski episode of Fraser.

1:30:52.680 --> 1:30:56.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the Christine Baranski episode of Fraser. Uh, the episode

1:30:56.439 --> 1:30:58.599
<v Speaker 2>of TNG where they will the two parter where they

1:30:58.640 --> 1:31:01.519
<v Speaker 2>go back to San Francisco in old times, and then

1:31:01.560 --> 1:31:05.680
<v Speaker 2>of course the movie Sister Act and Hook. If you've

1:31:05.680 --> 1:31:06.120
<v Speaker 2>got time.

1:31:06.560 --> 1:31:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Actually a very relaxing weekend watch list.

1:31:08.920 --> 1:31:11.720
<v Speaker 2>It seems like a nice weekend, you know what. Everybody

1:31:11.760 --> 1:31:12.840
<v Speaker 2>have fun, Jamie.

1:31:12.920 --> 1:31:14.560
<v Speaker 1>Do you have anything you want to plug at the

1:31:14.600 --> 1:31:16.560
<v Speaker 1>end here? Perhaps a podcast?

1:31:17.400 --> 1:31:20.760
<v Speaker 4>You know, I would love to plug a sixteenth minute

1:31:20.800 --> 1:31:24.479
<v Speaker 4>as well as the Bechdel Cast, which we firmly are

1:31:24.520 --> 1:31:27.040
<v Speaker 4>in denial that we have anything to do with any

1:31:27.120 --> 1:31:31.599
<v Speaker 4>of this, but yes, listen to sixteenth minute on cool

1:31:31.680 --> 1:31:32.320
<v Speaker 4>Zone Media.

1:31:32.720 --> 1:31:36.360
<v Speaker 3>There's actually a lot of what I was thinking throughout

1:31:36.360 --> 1:31:38.320
<v Speaker 3>this episode had to do with an interview on a

1:31:38.360 --> 1:31:41.280
<v Speaker 3>recent episode with Carol J.

1:31:41.439 --> 1:31:47.200
<v Speaker 4>Adams, author of the Sexual Politics of Meat, who was

1:31:47.479 --> 1:31:51.719
<v Speaker 4>harassed and dosed for weeks and like an entire summer

1:31:51.760 --> 1:31:54.599
<v Speaker 4>by Rush Limbaugh back in the day and then went

1:31:54.680 --> 1:31:58.040
<v Speaker 4>on to be harassed and docksed by Jordan Peterson fans

1:31:58.120 --> 1:31:59.960
<v Speaker 4>just a couple of years ago, and we talked about

1:32:00.040 --> 1:32:04.559
<v Speaker 4>out sort of the you know, illusion that this is

1:32:04.560 --> 1:32:08.240
<v Speaker 4>an Internet problem when it has existed in a very

1:32:08.240 --> 1:32:09.679
<v Speaker 4>similar form for a long time.

1:32:09.840 --> 1:32:14.439
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, check out my interview with Carol and if

1:32:14.439 --> 1:32:17.240
<v Speaker 3>you just like Internet main characters, that's the show.

1:32:19.240 --> 1:32:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, go to hell, I love you Bye.

1:32:28.160 --> 1:32:30.840
<v Speaker 1>Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:32:31.200 --> 1:32:34.480
<v Speaker 1>For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia

1:32:34.680 --> 1:32:37.840
<v Speaker 1>dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1:32:37.960 --> 1:32:40.360
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.