1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from my Heart Radio. 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland, 3 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: your beloved host, and I love all things tech. But 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: I am a little under the weather today, So to 5 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: lean a bit upon past Jonathan who worked ever so hard, 6 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: as well as former Tech Stuff producer Ramsey who who 7 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: is still with the company. He just produces other stuff. Now. Uh, 8 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: I thought I would revisit this episode I did back 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: in two thousand seventeen, November twenty second, two seventeen to 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: be precise, called Tron. He fights for the users. And 11 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: the reason this came to mind to me is because 12 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: over at Walt Disney World, over in the Magic Kingdom, 13 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: one of the things that they the company is busily 14 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: building out is a Tron light cycle amusement park ride, 15 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: a ride that is already in a Disney park in Asia, 16 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: but this will be the first North American version, and 17 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: I eagerly anticipate the opening of that ride because it 18 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: looks like it's going to be incredible. And I've always 19 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: loved the aesthetic of Tron, so the idea of being 20 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: able to inhabit that world, even for just a short 21 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: duration of a roller coaster ride really appeals to me. 22 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: So I thought we could dip back into this episode 23 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: from and listen to an interview I did regarding the 24 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: film Tron. Let's listen. In you have a hero who 25 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: rises up against a tyrant of a villain and helps 26 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: a group of resistance fighters overcome oppression. Now, that story 27 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: has been told in numerous ways before and since, but 28 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: this particular version had some really interesting quirks to it. 29 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: The film was called Tron. Tron follows the story of 30 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: a character named Flynn, who is a video game designer 31 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: and hacker who once was the employee of a corporation 32 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: called InCom. One of Flynn's co workers named Dillinger, stole 33 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: Flynn's work and arranged Flynn's removal from the company and 34 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: covered it all up. Flynn plans a daring computer raid 35 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: on the company with the help of two of his 36 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: former co workers. His big goal is to uncover the 37 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:37,679 Speaker 1: actual evidence that in fact, Dillinger stole Flynn's work, and 38 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: his big opponent in this raid is an artificial intelligent construct. 39 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: It's a piece of code, it's some software. It's called 40 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: the Master Control Program or m c P. Now, originally 41 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: that started out as a chess game, but it had 42 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: started to assimilate other programs into its own code and 43 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: systematically growing more powerful as a result. Old so imagine 44 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: sort of like the borg absorbing other entities to gain 45 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: more strength as kind of what the m c P 46 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: is doing. It gets more and more capability as it 47 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: absorbs other programs. So, while Flynn is trying to break 48 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: into Incom's systems, the m c P detects him and 49 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: uses a laser to convert Flynn into digital information and 50 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: essentially upload him to the computer. That pulls Flynn into 51 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: the computer world and their Flynn encounters programs and in 52 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: the world of the computer simulation or the computer environment, 53 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: these programs have the appearances of humans in this universe. 54 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: They also resemble their creators, whoever programmed them. One of 55 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: those programs is Tron. The name is short for Electronic 56 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: Tron is a security program and is designed to keep 57 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: an eye on the m c P. But he also 58 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: acts kind of like a gladiator in various games that 59 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: the m c P forces programs to participate in, and 60 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: and as some people mentioned within the context of the film, 61 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: he fights for the users. It's one of my favorite 62 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: quotes from Tron. Users in the Tron universe are sort 63 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: of seen as like gods. They are the creators, and 64 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: the programs look to users for guidance and for approval, 65 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: and they have had all communication cut off by the 66 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: m c P, so they wonder if the users are 67 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: still out there. There's this whole existential crisis going on 68 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: in the world of Tron, and that's an interesting piece 69 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: of the mythology of the movie. Flynn eventually, of course, 70 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: helps bring down the m c P and he escapes 71 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: the computer world. He's also able to prove that Dillinger 72 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: stole his work, and he ends up becoming the new 73 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: head of Income as a result. Now, the film was 74 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: not a big success at the box office, but it 75 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: did find itself a cult following and also had a 76 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: profound impact on the way people would visualize cyberspace. I 77 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: would even say that you could see elements of the 78 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: design from Tron find its way into early implementations of 79 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: virtual reality, and the production of the film itself relied 80 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: heavily on some really innovative work from numerous people in 81 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: order for the film to actually come into being. So 82 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: Ramsey the Wonder producer arranged for me to have an 83 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: interview with the writer and director of Tron, Stephen Liszburger. 84 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: What follows is our conversation about the technology he used 85 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: to create the movie, as well as his philosophy about 86 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: technology and stuff in general, really the things that informed 87 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: the creation of Tron. I hope you enjoy Stephen Lisztburger. 88 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: It is a pleasure to have you on the show. 89 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining Tech Stuff my pleasure. Now before 90 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: we jump into Tron, and I've got a lot of 91 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: things to ask about for Tron. Uh, maybe my listeners 92 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: would probably appreciate understanding a little bit about your background 93 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: leading up to Tron. You had a background in animation 94 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: leading up to that. I come from the East Coast, 95 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: it's more to New York, and went to college in 96 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: Boston at TOPS and went to the School of the 97 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: Museum of Fine Arts, where I studied film for five years, 98 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: including animation, and I had my own company in Boston 99 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: that did some live action but primarily animation, and uh, 100 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,119 Speaker 1: we eventually ended up with a studio on the East 101 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: Coast and went on the West Coast. We're and our 102 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: biggest job was doing Animal Olympics for the NBC Television network, 103 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: and during that we developed Tron and then tried to 104 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: do it independently, but we couldn't pull it off. So 105 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: we were fortunate enough to get in business with Disney. Yeah. 106 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: I imagine a project with the scope of Tron would 107 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: have been extremely challenging to pull off without some some 108 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: pretty major hell. And I also imagine that Disney's background 109 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: in animation. Uh lad to some some aid when you 110 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: guys were working on Tron, because I don't know that 111 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: people who have seen the film are really aware how 112 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: much actual hand drawn animation techniques were incorporated. This was 113 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: an era before computer graphics had reached that digital age 114 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: where you do everything you know digitally on a computer 115 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: and then you can just export to a video file. 116 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: This is way before all of that, So I imagine 117 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: Disney's involvement was somewhat helpful because that was a studio 118 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: that actually understood animation. Yeah, all of that is true. 119 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: And just to unpack that, Um, if we had tried 120 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: to do it independently, I think it would have we 121 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't have made it. Eventually. We would have had to 122 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: either go under or bring in someone else because we 123 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: were somewhat naive. We had an idea how we would 124 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: do it, but we in retrospect the scale of it 125 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: was something that none of us had experienced with. On paper, 126 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: we thought we could work it all out. It added 127 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: up and made sense. But when we got into it 128 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: at Disney, many times I thought, I'm really glad we're 129 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: here and not in any other studio because, as you said, 130 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: we we had We had hundreds and hundreds of thousands 131 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: of pieces of artwork, um put any into just the 132 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: frame blow ups. Every individual frame of the electronic world 133 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: blown up shot in seventy moment are blown up. They 134 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: were when they were stacked up. They filled two entire 135 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: moving vans. I mean it was tons and tons and 136 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: tons of images and it it didn't freak Disney out 137 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: because they said, yeah, we're used to handling millions of 138 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: pieces of artwork. And in the end, that was totally 139 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: the strength production wise of the project because we all 140 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: of us working on it were familiar with animation. Even 141 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: the live action people had quite a bit of experience 142 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: and animation, so we sort of took the best from 143 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: live action and then we turned the whole live action 144 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: movie into an animated movie. And once it was at 145 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: that level. You could treat it like mass production. You 146 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: could just keep multiplying the number of teams working on 147 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: the individual scenes. And and there was a system there. 148 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: We weren't reinventing the wheel. That system existed. People knew 149 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: how to do, you know, animated effects, and how to 150 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: work with these numbers of probably it had to be 151 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: over a million pieces in the end. And the funny 152 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: thing about it is how efficient it was, because we 153 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: ended up doing all of the special effects in Tron 154 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: one in half the time that it took to do 155 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: them in Tron too well, and and correct me if 156 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: I got this, get any of this wrong. I want 157 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:18,839 Speaker 1: to see if I can kind of lay out for 158 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: my listeners sort of a general approach to the electronic 159 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: world sequences which took up more almost an entire hour 160 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: of Tron. I think about somewhere around the realm of 161 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: fifty three to fifty five minutes something like that of 162 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: a footage in this electronic world. So the thing is, 163 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: there was an underlying template that I had in mind, 164 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: which is, you know, a sort of live action short 165 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: at the beginning, then followed by an animated movie is 166 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: what Disney used to make. And you know, they always 167 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: did that with their live action films and animated and 168 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: live or live and animated, and so that combination is 169 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: what I was going for, or you know, it's sort 170 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: of a it's it's kind of an animated feature in 171 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: terms of that length of about seventy minutes with the 172 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: live action being kind of a short at the beginning. 173 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: So and the way that would work out, like you said, 174 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: you shot on seventy millimeter in large each frame. Because 175 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: to remind my listeners, some of whom are are too 176 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: young to really remember the days of film that you're shooting. 177 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: It's really funny, you know, once time moves on and 178 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: people forget about how difficult it was in the past. 179 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: It's a little bit like the next generation doesn't really 180 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: care how difficult it was before. And you know, there 181 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: was no way to composite film if you that was efficient, 182 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: if you did effects and you had characters and you 183 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: had a fantasy background, there really was no good way 184 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: to put all of this together. Blue screen existed, but 185 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: shot blue screen. And you know, if if you had 186 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: at the time, if you had twenty or fifty blue 187 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: screen shots in the film, that was a lot. Well, 188 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: we had nine hundred composite shots that we had to do, 189 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: nine shots that had you and beings in worlds that 190 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: didn't exist, plus their costumes who were supposed to be glowing. 191 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: And there was no digital compositing. You couldn't even run 192 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: computer animation consecutively. We only had enough computing power. We 193 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: had total two megabytes, and we only had enough memory 194 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: to render one frame at a time period, so you 195 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: could never look at the light cycles moving. You could 196 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: only look at this individual frame. Then you had to 197 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: wait forty five minutes and render the next frame and 198 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: look at that one. And the only time we ever 199 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: saw the stuff put together is after we set up 200 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: a film camera and clicked like an animated movie, one 201 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: frame at a time off of this computer animation, and 202 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: then people would all go into the screening room and 203 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: sit there. Even the guys that did all the computer 204 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: work had never seen it moving, and we saw it 205 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: for the very first time when we filmed it one 206 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 1: frame at a time and then ran it back. And 207 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: so to put all of this together, to composite it, 208 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: the only way we could do it was to do 209 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: blow up every frame and make it into an animated movie. 210 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: And what we did to combine it with the computer animation. 211 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: Was to try to find a sort of middle ground 212 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: where the live action would look like it had been 213 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: rendered by a computer and the computer animation wasn't too 214 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: attempting to look too real because we couldn't do real. 215 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: Many of the looks in the computer aspects of Tron 216 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: look the way they look because not because we sat 217 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: there and said, oh, wouldn't this look great in wire 218 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: frame instead of fully rendered? No, no, no, it was 219 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: wire frame because that's all we could do, and it's 220 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: phenomenal to to give a sense of scale. You're talking 221 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: about twenty four frames a second with film, every single 222 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: one of those frames being for the electronic world being 223 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: blown up so that animators can go in and and 224 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: hand draw elements onto those frames, each of those frames 225 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: having to go through multiple exposures depending upon how many 226 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: colors you had, because each time you added a different 227 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: color you had to do another level, You had to 228 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: photograph everything all over again. Uh, you're you're talking frames. 229 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: If you start doing the math, if you're thinking fifty 230 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: three minutes more than because I don't want to do 231 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: the mass that right now, but I think, well, the 232 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: thing is, it's um if it goes through the math, 233 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: you say, this can't be done. Because just doing the 234 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: colors on each frame, the average number of exposures was 235 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: I think eighteen. Some of the frames in Tron were 236 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: exposed thirty six times. And because everything had to be 237 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: held in focus so that the blow ups were sharp 238 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: and the blow ups are about the size of place Matt, 239 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: there was no depth of field. At seventy millimeter had 240 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: those light levels, So it wasn't those cameras. Those seventy 241 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: millimeter cameras were used by David Lean to shoot Lawrence 242 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: of Arabia, and afterwards I really understood why, because in 243 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: the desert there's enough light. But for any of the 244 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: situations we were in, I had to shoot characters when 245 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: they were speaking to each other and over the shoulder shots. 246 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: They had to be shot on separate passes. So I 247 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: would have Bruce in the foreground with no Jeff that 248 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: he was talking to looking at, and I get him 249 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: in focus, and then I get him out of the frame, 250 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: and then I bring in Jeff and he'd say his 251 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: lines and I chewed them separately, each one held in focus, 252 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: and then they were put together. But yeah, the the 253 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: in animation. There's a thing called an exposure sheet, and 254 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: it's showed. It tells the animation cameraman what levels are 255 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: photographed and what order, and there there's about, I don't know, 256 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: three seconds of animation per exposure sheet. And so what 257 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: we did was we took those exposure sheets and instead 258 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: of that sheet being filled then for three seconds, which 259 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: is seventy two frames, it was one frame in tron, 260 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: one exposure sheet per whole sheet, three seconds of animation 261 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: per individual frame. But again it was only possible to 262 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: put all of this together through animation. We were under 263 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: an extreme deadline, I heard all. I never was given 264 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: a real good reason by Disney why we were in 265 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: such a rush, but we were. And I've heard various 266 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: theories over the years that there was, you know, some 267 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: competition in the marketplace that summer, and so that's why 268 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: they wanted us to come out then. But sometimes I 269 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: wonder what would have happened if we had come out 270 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: the following winter, which made more sense, and that would 271 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: have given us six more months. I mean, it was 272 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: the deadline was so severe that UM we took only 273 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: one day off every fourteen days. That was the legal limit. 274 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: So UM we would work thirteen days and then we 275 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: get one day off, and then we worked thirteen days 276 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,959 Speaker 1: in it one day off, and to complete the rephotography 277 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: of all these blown up frames. Um at the end, 278 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: I think we had twelve this division animation stands going 279 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: twenty four hours a day, three shifts on each and 280 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: the strain on the film in terms of getting it done. 281 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: From a director standpoint, that was kind of crazy. But 282 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 1: because I was new to this, you know, I just 283 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: accepted it. But the picture was after I shot all 284 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 1: the live action that the film had to be completed 285 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: in three weeks locked, so not on frame of the 286 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: movie could be changed. Frames could be taken out and removed, 287 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: but I couldn't change or add anything. So, you know, 288 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: now directors get three or four months to live with 289 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: their movie in the editing room. I had three weeks 290 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: after that it was locked. And the thing that's interesting 291 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: is what I had to lock was actors in their 292 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: unaltered tron suits on an all black stage. And then 293 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: I had no computer animation yet because that wasn't done. 294 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: So when I locked the movie and said this is 295 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: the movie I'm making, there were no effects in it. 296 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: There were no colors, in it it was black or white. 297 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: Many of the scenes just had individual actors because you know, 298 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: it was one or the other, like I said, and 299 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: there was just storyboards are a little little frames that 300 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: said effect goes here a solar sailor. And at that 301 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: point I had to say, okay, I sign off. This 302 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: is the movie we're going to release. From there on, 303 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: we just did nine months of filling it all in. It's. Um. Yeah, 304 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: in retrospect it was insane, But at the time it's 305 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: compared to working on Tron to Drown Legacy, where everything 306 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: was composited in real time, where you could just put 307 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: the you know, computer animation together with the backgrounds, together 308 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: with the actors, and you know, you could make changes 309 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: up until like I don't know, a couple of weeks 310 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: before the movie was in theaters. Yeah, this is a 311 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: time where you can't even you can't even review the 312 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: footage immediately afterward, obviously because you've got the filt you 313 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: have to process everything. So oh yeah, of course there's 314 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: no video tap. I mean, you know, you shoot it 315 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: and it goes off to the lab and then you 316 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: see it the next day in dailies at lunchtime. Um, 317 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: there was also no time to do reshoots or reduce um. 318 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: I mean it was standard procedure on Tron legacy that 319 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: when affects shots or shots were composited, that there would 320 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: be multiple redus on each shot, every frame. It was 321 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: none of that. I mean we were flying blind and 322 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: then we had to commit um. Once in a while, 323 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: when something was really screwed up, I would get to 324 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: redo it or reshoot a recomposite. But often what we 325 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: did say Okay, there's a mistake. How can we incorporate 326 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: this mistake into the visuals or into the story, and uh, 327 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: we just went with it. So yeah, yeah, I imagine 328 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: that meant that you had a lot of story boarding 329 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: was very precise from the very get go, so that 330 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: you could you could the team of talented people I 331 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: had was unbelievable, once in a lifetime. I it was 332 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: one of the great joys of making the film. And 333 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: uh yeah, incredible. I mean the team I had from 334 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: Listener Studios, my guys, some of whom came from Disney 335 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: originally and then left Disney and worked at list of 336 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: Studios and then ironically they found themselves back at Disney. 337 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: But we storyboarded the whole film before we ever got 338 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: to Disney, and we did all this artwork for all 339 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: the different thing you know, aspects the m C P 340 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: and Solar Sailor and on the life cycles. That was 341 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: all done, but it was done by us in house, 342 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: and it was it was interesting that then when I 343 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: got to Disney and they said, well, you know, if 344 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: you if you could have a dream, what would it be. 345 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: And I would say, well, I'd like Mobius to go 346 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: over these storyboards, and then I'd like sit Me to 347 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: go over our vehicle designs, and both of them to 348 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: go over my costume designs, and I like Peter Lloyd 349 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: to go over production paintings. And so what what worked 350 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: out great is that we never approached these great artists 351 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: and said to him, we just have a blank piece 352 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: of paper and now I'm going to explain to you 353 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 1: what I'm trying to get to. It was it was 354 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: so much better that we said, look, this is as 355 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 1: good as we can get this, and we're pretty confident that, 356 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: you know, there's more room to improve this. And they 357 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: never let us down. And I think they really like that, 358 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, because they look at our artwork and they go, yeah, 359 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: this is really nice. But this, or why didn't you 360 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: do that? Or why didn't you do this? And Mobius 361 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: would say, you know, you could shoot this this way, 362 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: but if you shot it from this angle and if 363 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: you showed this, then the audience would know that, and uh, yeah, 364 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: it was amazing that it's awesome, and it's great that 365 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: you already had, you know, a nice idea to go 366 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: in with and not have to run the risk of 367 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: asking an artist to contribute and then say, oh, but 368 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,479 Speaker 1: that doesn't really fit in what I was you know, 369 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 1: it says that. And the thing is I wasn't used 370 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,239 Speaker 1: to this part of it either. The team that you know, 371 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: my guys at Listener Studios, we would throw stuff out 372 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: all the time and we would say, well, you know 373 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: that looked good last week, but why don't we try 374 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: this light cycle design this week? And it was a 375 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: learning curve for me to work with you know, Sid 376 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: and Mobius, and they would say, no, this is it. 377 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: There are changes, there's no revisions. I'm not doing this again. 378 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: That was amazing. It would be at a little bit 379 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: like walking up to Da Vincian singing, yeah, it doesn't 380 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: go that way, could you put some of the life 381 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: cycle and he hands it to you, you don't say 382 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: to me? He said, what about this? We do that? 383 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: You know, you know how about mud flaps. And it's like, 384 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 1: now I don't think so. Thing that happened with the 385 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: LFE cycles I will interject this and it never bothered. Said, 386 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: is that we sent the life cycles to Madgi, which 387 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: was still Middleman's company UM in New York. We had 388 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: three computer companies. One was in New York State and 389 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: that's where Chris Wedge used to work, who went on 390 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: to Great Blue Sky Studios and do ice age. And 391 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: then we had a company out here called Triple I, 392 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: where Richard Taylor was. And then we also used Robert 393 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: Abeles company, who was in Hollywood. But when I sent 394 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: the first LFE cycle drawing that SID did to uh Magi, 395 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: they said, we can't do this. The curves are too complex, 396 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: we can't render this. We don't have enough you know power, 397 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: it won't work. And I knew that, you know, it 398 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: was an incredible design. We all loved it, and so 399 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: I thought about it this I remember this was over 400 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: a weekend, some Sunday, and so then I said, how 401 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,959 Speaker 1: do I keep the integrity of Sid's designed but simplify 402 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: it for the computer, and already you gotta imagine, it 403 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: was already really simple in terms of color and shading. 404 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,239 Speaker 1: And then I, I don't know how where I got 405 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: this idea, but I got the idea of what if 406 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 1: you took the bike which was very three D and 407 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: squeezed parts of it between two pieces of glass. To 408 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: imagine that squeezing it between two pieces of glass. So 409 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: if you look at it from the side, what I 410 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: did was I kept that faring in the front from 411 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: the way Sid designed it, but I flattened everything else 412 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,479 Speaker 1: that was also full of all these compound curves, just 413 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: like I was pressing a piece of glass against it, 414 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 1: and that did it. We got enough of the complexity 415 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,479 Speaker 1: out of it so that the computer guys could do it. 416 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 1: And by the way, I want to say one thing 417 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: about Magi that it was pretty funny, which is that 418 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: one of the main reasons their tanks in the first 419 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: Tron movie is because when I first went to Magi, 420 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: which was really early on, I was keeping track of 421 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: their capabilities, Like years before we ever made Tron. Their 422 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: first major contract was with the military to do tank simulations. 423 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: This was all the way back in the mid seventies. 424 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: This was totally like far out crazy stuff, you know, 425 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 1: darkst stuff and mag I was doing. You know, it 426 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: looked like very crude video games, but it was tank oriented. 427 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: So then I at some point came to them and said, 428 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: if you know, if these chase vehicles are tanks, you're 429 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: going to be able to, you know, do a lot 430 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: of this pretty effectively because of your tank experience. And 431 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: they said, yeah, so that's why, you know, the tanks 432 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: worked out so well. Jonathan from one here just breaking 433 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: in to say, we're going to take a quick break 434 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: and be right back. Well, I'm I'm curious now kind 435 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: of stepping back from the the meta tech of how 436 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: the movie came to be and kind of diving into 437 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: the the actual content of the home itself. This is 438 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: a really big treat for me because not only do 439 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: I get to talk about filmmaking approaches and technology that 440 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: I totally geek out about, but I can I can 441 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: also talk about the mythology of Tron, which is incredible. 442 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: It's very prescient in a lot of ways that I'm 443 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,719 Speaker 1: not even certain that that you guys were aware of 444 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: at the time, Like things that that to me became 445 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: really big conversation points a decade or more further out 446 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: from when the film came out. Oh yeah, I mean, 447 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: I'll tell you something that will boil your mind. Sure. 448 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: I had a revelation about the mythology of trona the 449 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: first movie two days ago. I'm serious because in discussions 450 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,719 Speaker 1: about Tron two and discussions about, you know, theoretical discussions 451 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: about what at Tron three would be, all of a sudden, 452 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: it sheds light all the way back to the first film, 453 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: and I realized, oh, this is why we doing that. 454 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: And I never really understood that that clearly until you know, so, yeah, 455 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: it's that aspect of it. It's funny because I like 456 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: to talk about the technical achievement of Tron and the 457 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: incredible work and all the talented people that worked on it, 458 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: and I mean talked about unsung heroes, you know, Richard 459 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: with Richard Taylor and Bill Kroyer did and and there 460 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: the teams and all the three companies. I could go 461 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: on all day about how great that whole group was. 462 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: But then people go, see listener, he's such a geek. 463 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: You know, he doesn't love story or characters. And that's 464 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: not true at all. I mean, what what actually got Tron. 465 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: Gave me the energy to make Tron was not the 466 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: geeky energy of computer graphics. What what motivated me for 467 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: years and made me put everything on the line were 468 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: the characters. And it was that story in particular. And 469 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: then I got so excited because I saw that there 470 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: was a chance we could actually do it with this technology. 471 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: But looking back at it, um, I have to say that, 472 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: you know, I was. I was inspired by the experiences 473 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: of my own life up to that point, even though 474 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: I was young, and the story works on many levels 475 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: for me personally. UM so, yeah, I care about that 476 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: pretty deeply. I would say, well, it's the effects of 477 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: the film are phenomenal and I love them. But as 478 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: people have pointed out numerous times over the years, effects 479 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: don't make a story. And if you rely too heavily 480 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: upon the the azzle of effects and you sacrifice the story, 481 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: then you know, I don't find myself talking about those 482 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: films later on, right, I don't, I know what you mean, 483 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: there's nothing, nothing to hang on. Yeah, I know, well, 484 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,719 Speaker 1: they don't resonate past to the you know, the moment, 485 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: the thing that I've been thinking about and the revelation 486 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: I just had recently is that if you look at 487 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: if you look at a movie like Star Wars or 488 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: Um or an Avatar or Um Wonder Woman or four 489 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: thor is of an example, the worlds of those films 490 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: are epic. I mean, there's nothing more epic than Nordic 491 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: mythology and spaces as epic as it gets, and it's infinity, 492 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,959 Speaker 1: it's everything. So what happens in those elms is that 493 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: Star Wars or a thor what happens is that you 494 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: get to have comedic characters because that they make the 495 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: epic grandeur of the setting relatable. So you know, it's 496 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: called Star Wars, which is about as epic a title 497 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,479 Speaker 1: as you could ever come up with. But then you know, 498 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: Luke is kind of a goofy farm boy with his 499 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: you know, and his robot friends are you know, pretty funny. 500 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: So you know, that's how we relate to the epic. 501 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: And the what I'm getting at where this connects with 502 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: Tron is that Tron has is kind of the opposite 503 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: formula if you think about it, because when we did 504 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: Tron one, all there was was you know, pong games, 505 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: and no one looks at a pawn game and says 506 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: this is epic. You know, people stand out at night 507 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: and look at the stars and say this is epic. 508 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: But they don't stand in front of a pong game 509 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: in a bar and you know, look at the the 510 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: pong bar table and say this is epic. So what 511 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: we did was we kind of with the character of Flynn, 512 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: we add it's kind of an epic character two a 513 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: non epic world. And I think that for the people 514 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: that struggled with Tron, and some people still do and say, 515 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 1: you know, I don't get that movie. Why are people 516 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: excited about it? I think what what they struggle with, 517 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: even though they wouldn't necessarily say it, is they struggle 518 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,240 Speaker 1: with the idea that something epic can come and significant 519 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: or grand can come out of something that isn't well. 520 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 1: And and to kind of continue your your point, uh, 521 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: you know, if you look at it on the scale 522 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: of something like Star Wars or thor you're talking about 523 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 1: this cause malogical scale, and when you're talking about Tron, 524 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: you're talking about diving into a virtual space that's confined 525 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 1: within a very you know, limited physical space. It's within 526 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: a computer. It's almost like you're literally going as small 527 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: scale as you can get we're talking about information, not 528 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: even a physical thing at this point, right, Well, that's 529 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: that's I think one of the reasons people are drawn 530 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: to take sort of sanctuary in the digital world, and 531 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: we do it all the time, is because we control it. 532 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: It's finite. You know, even though it's gotten as complex 533 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 1: as it is compared to the universe, it still feels 534 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: like it's ours. We can manage it, we put it together, 535 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: we can alter it. But you know, the universe, we're 536 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: getting really bad at dealing with the universe. And um 537 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:04,439 Speaker 1: so I think, well, it's also this is all very 538 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: generational because my generation traditionally, and certainly people older than 539 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 1: me just I can't tell you. I don't know how 540 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: old you are, but I'm sure you're younger than me. 541 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: People were terrified of computers, just terrified. And Disney was terrified, 542 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: every you know, everybody was. And it's like young people 543 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: come along and they say, well, this scares the hell 544 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 1: out of my parents. What power is actually here that 545 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: does that? A little bit like, yeah, if dad has 546 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: a problem understanding this and it freaks them out, I 547 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: got to learn what this is about. And so the 548 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: idea that something significant was going to come out of 549 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: these you know, these limited worlds with this you know, 550 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: information storage manipulation that was embraced by the next generation, 551 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: but it was you know, none of something that older 552 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: people wanted to accept, and they created this weird schism 553 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: over the years with tron. I mean, you know, some 554 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: people said, oh my god, you know how this is 555 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: terrible if things go in this direction. And then twenty 556 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 1: years later they were doing ads for Apple computers and 557 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: I've I've seen that arc and people don't change. Generations change, 558 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: and um. The other thing, as long as I'm thinking 559 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: down this avenue is that I think the fundamental change 560 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: with the threat of computers. At the time, you know, 561 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: everybody was worried about, oh, you know, the computers are 562 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: going to take my personal data and they're going to 563 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 1: use it. Ag asked me, I'm gonna lose my privacy. 564 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: And who could have predicted that they would take all 565 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: our personal data but they wouldn't have to battle us 566 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: for it. We would line up to hand it over. 567 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 1: It's called Facebook, okay, it's called you know everything else 568 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: that you know wants our credit card number. And so 569 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: that has been you know about no one anticipated that, 570 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: No one back then and Torom didn't anticipate that either. That. 571 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: You know, I talked to some of the heaviest people 572 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 1: in the field of computers back then, and you know, 573 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: they would give me notes, and some of them would 574 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: give me story suggestions, but no one ever gave me 575 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,919 Speaker 1: a note that said, you know, we're going to hand. 576 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: It's not that we're gonna fear it and battle it. 577 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,359 Speaker 1: We're gonna run towards it as fast as we can. 578 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: And it's and I've spent a lot of time thinking 579 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,800 Speaker 1: about how that really happened or on what that really means, 580 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 1: what are the repercussions of that, And what I came 581 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: away with on that is that that computers put us, 582 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: put the users in a situation where they said, look, 583 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,879 Speaker 1: we'll take care of the cognitive problems, so you're liberated 584 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: from that, and what what you can do with your 585 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: extra time is indulge your feelings. And you know, because 586 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: that's what we like to do. You know, we we 587 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: get adding machines so we don't have to do the math. 588 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: So then we can, you know, go to the movies 589 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: instead of doing the math, and we can enjoy our 590 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: emotions and feelings. And that has continued to advance. You know, 591 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: it used to be like, okay, I'm not going to 592 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 1: learn too much math because I have an adding machine 593 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 1: and you know, now I have spell check, well, you know, 594 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,399 Speaker 1: and then it's like, well I don't. Pretty soon I'm 595 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: not even gonna have to drive my car drive itself. 596 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: And so all these cognitive things are being you know, 597 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: we're so called being liberated from and then we're just 598 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: all about our feelings. And you know, we wanted that 599 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,840 Speaker 1: for a long time. But in the past people humanity 600 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: dreamt about it the other way. You know, for hundreds 601 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 1: of years people philosophers dreamt of a world that was 602 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:41,320 Speaker 1: guided by reason because it was too much about people's feelings. 603 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: And you know, science and philosophy advanced so we could 604 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: get to this point where reason sort of determined our 605 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:59,879 Speaker 1: our fate because reason is connected to underlying truth that endures. 606 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: That's why, that's what reason is. But emotions don't work 607 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: that way. You know, you can think that it's worth 608 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, dying one moment for something. You know, if 609 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 1: I don't get invited to the prom I should you 610 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 1: be better off dead, And then a month later you 611 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: could forget that you ever felt that way. And so 612 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: now we're we're kind of living in the age of Trump, 613 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: where I'm digressing, I know, but we're living in the 614 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:42,760 Speaker 1: age of Trump. We're it's all about these feelings every day, 615 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,839 Speaker 1: and we have we have the way of of expressing 616 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: those feelings to a larger audience than ever before, instantaneously, 617 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: as you know, So the cognitive power of computers has 618 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 1: ironically completely liberated our emotional feely side, touchy feely side. 619 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,760 Speaker 1: It gets to stand out every thought in his head 620 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: because of Twitter. Whenever whenever, whenever a disgruntled employee of 621 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,800 Speaker 1: Twitter isn't deleting his account. Yeah, so this this weird 622 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: relationship we've developed with technology. And I go all the 623 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: way back to you know, the early torn days, and 624 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: I can see what we thought then, and I can 625 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 1: you know, I've experienced the arc you know, from there 626 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: to hear it's it's really interesting. Well, what's fascinating to 627 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: me is that, you know, you talked about this this 628 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: thing about computers that were very scary to one generation 629 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 1: and very promising to the next. Uh. My background is, 630 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: interestingly for me anyway, not not in technology. My background, 631 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: my scholarly background was in medieval literature. And history. And 632 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,320 Speaker 1: the funny thing is you see the exact same story 633 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: play out upon the invention of the Guttenberg Press, because 634 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:11,919 Speaker 1: it was taking taking books away from monks, you know exactly. Yeah. 635 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: Instead of instead of it being the church that was 636 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: completely in charge of creating manuscripts and books, it now 637 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 1: became the domain of printers who could produce them much 638 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: more quickly, which meant that people could actually own books 639 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 1: for the first time because they weren't prohibitively expensive, and 640 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 1: that transformed the Renaissance. Really, you could argue that was 641 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: an enormous employ on it, just as computers have been 642 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: granted a much more accelerated, but a similar transformative element 643 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 1: in our own society. So this kind of knowing this 644 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: sort of stuff, I mean, granted, a lot of this 645 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 1: stuff kind of evolved over the years since Tron has 646 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: come out and in some ways can change the way 647 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 1: we view Tron, which I actually I think that's great 648 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,760 Speaker 1: for any piece of art, right that you can revisit 649 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,799 Speaker 1: that piece of art and it means something new to 650 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,760 Speaker 1: you based upon your experiences and the way the world 651 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: has changed things. A window into how what a relationship 652 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: was with all of those things, the things of the 653 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 1: moment and eternal things at that moment in times, you know. 654 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I'll tell you another sort of past and 655 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 1: future mechanism that I thought about primarily after I made Tron, 656 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: which is that, you know, the character of Flynn is 657 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: kind of you know. Afterwards, I did quite a bit 658 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: of study about the archetype of the shaman character and 659 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,040 Speaker 1: what it what does the shaman character do traditionally And 660 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:55,399 Speaker 1: traditionally he he heals a person who has lost their 661 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,319 Speaker 1: spirit because their spirit has gone into you know, the 662 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 1: another world, the spirit world, and that is why the 663 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:07,320 Speaker 1: person here is sick. And the shaman has the power 664 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 1: to crossover into the spirit world. And then because he 665 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:17,360 Speaker 1: has powers there, he can retrieve the spirit of his friend, 666 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,400 Speaker 1: bring it back to this world, and then put the 667 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,759 Speaker 1: two together. And I'm reading about this, like, you know, 668 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 1: specifics about this twenty years later, and and then I'm 669 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: thinking about what Flynn did in the first movie. Alan 670 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 1: and you know, Laura come to him and they're sick. 671 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: Why because they've lost their spirit, They've lost their programs 672 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 1: and it's making them sick. And he has lost information too, 673 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: and then he ends up crossing over into the digital realm, 674 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 1: and you know what does he do there? He freeze 675 00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:00,440 Speaker 1: them up so that they can now get in touch 676 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: the you know, the information that is the Tron program 677 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 1: can get in touch with the user can get in 678 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,040 Speaker 1: touch with it, and you know, and then he comes 679 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,839 Speaker 1: back to this world. And I thought, you know, this 680 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,319 Speaker 1: is this is pretty crazy that it's the role of 681 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: the shaman, but in a in a digital environment. And 682 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,839 Speaker 1: I wasn't really thinking about that when I came up 683 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: with it. And not only that, but a role of 684 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,919 Speaker 1: a shaman, a shaman taking the role of essentially our protagonist, uh, 685 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 1: the hero of the story, the one who makes the 686 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,799 Speaker 1: who defeats the bad guy at the end. You know, 687 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,400 Speaker 1: we have Tron, but we follow Flynn. Obviously, that makes 688 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,240 Speaker 1: sense because Flynn is from our world, so we're seeing 689 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,320 Speaker 1: the world of Tron through his eyes. That's very necessary 690 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: for the grounding of that for the audience. But it 691 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 1: is also interesting that that in a traditional narrative, we 692 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,680 Speaker 1: would be following the story of Tron right you start, 693 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,800 Speaker 1: you follow the story of the guy who slays the 694 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,360 Speaker 1: dragon at the end. Uh. And so instead we're following 695 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,279 Speaker 1: the character that enables that to happen and one level up. 696 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,279 Speaker 1: It's pretty funny that moment when at the end of 697 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: Tron where she says, you know, Flynn really did it, 698 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: and Tron doesn't know that, you know, he managed to 699 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,279 Speaker 1: overcome the m c P because of what Flynn did. 700 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 1: That that happened on a whole, whole dimensional level above 701 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,680 Speaker 1: his head literally, and he looks at her and he goes, oh, okay, 702 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,360 Speaker 1: I don't really know what to do with that information. Yeah, 703 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: you know, and I just this thought popped into my head, 704 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,840 Speaker 1: which is that according to this definition of what a 705 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 1: shaman is, you could almost say that, um Wizard of 706 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:55,680 Speaker 1: Oz is a shaman story that Judy Garland's character she 707 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,880 Speaker 1: crosses over to the other world and what does she do. 708 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:04,800 Speaker 1: She helps her friend and become whole brain. It's a 709 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:10,839 Speaker 1: very similar mechanism. Absolutely. Yeah, it's uh interesting. I had 710 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,920 Speaker 1: not even thought of that, but that is a very 711 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,960 Speaker 1: a very apt, uh comparison, especially since Dorothy again is 712 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,520 Speaker 1: going into a world completely unlike our own, that has 713 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:27,520 Speaker 1: its own rules, has its own history. Doth Yeah, back again. 714 00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,720 Speaker 1: Just wanted to say, we're going to take another quick break, 715 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 1: but we'll be right back for the rest of this interview. Well, 716 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,360 Speaker 1: I have another question for you. This is one that 717 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,240 Speaker 1: that not only I need to know, but my producer 718 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:51,360 Speaker 1: Ramsey needs to know, and that is Master Control Program 719 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,000 Speaker 1: m c P, one of one of the great villains 720 00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:59,400 Speaker 1: of science fiction. What what what was? Did you have 721 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: any specif inspirations for MCP, perhaps with any other organizations 722 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,160 Speaker 1: that might have three letters in their name or anything 723 00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 1: along those lines. Or from the beginning, he was always 724 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:17,239 Speaker 1: machine like. And when I went to and there was 725 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,560 Speaker 1: a sort of Wizard of Oz component to him too, 726 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,719 Speaker 1: speaking a Wizard of Oz, because you know, he was 727 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: smoking mirrors and in the end he was that, you know, 728 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: a little It all started with that little chess player. 729 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:36,360 Speaker 1: But um, when I went to Triple I, they had 730 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: one of the three computer companies, they had created a 731 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:46,200 Speaker 1: juggling human character wearing a top hat who um looked 732 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,160 Speaker 1: very human. He barely moved. He just stood in one 733 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,719 Speaker 1: position and his arms moved, and he juggled a bunch 734 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:58,239 Speaker 1: of balls. And but he didn't speak or anything like that. 735 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,120 Speaker 1: And I think you ever moved his speed either. And 736 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,840 Speaker 1: then I saw that I saw this, this image popped 737 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,799 Speaker 1: into my head that like the Wizard of Oz, we 738 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 1: could have his face on this machine like exterior that 739 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:18,800 Speaker 1: we had been creating for the m c P and uh, 740 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:23,359 Speaker 1: but then we couldn't render it in flesh tones and 741 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,440 Speaker 1: have it speak because we just didn't have enough computing power. 742 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,880 Speaker 1: So the only way we could actually do it was 743 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:34,600 Speaker 1: in wire France. So you know, we we recorded David 744 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,160 Speaker 1: Warner's voice doing it, and then we altered his voice, 745 00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,000 Speaker 1: and then we you know, did what animators have always 746 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,800 Speaker 1: done is sync up the images, you know, the face 747 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:49,160 Speaker 1: with the soundtrack and the MCP is really I guess 748 00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:55,840 Speaker 1: the first talking had the first c G character that 749 00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:01,560 Speaker 1: ever was. And I always liked the idea that you 750 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,280 Speaker 1: can be outside of him or you can be inside 751 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,400 Speaker 1: of him. The scene where Sark is actually you know, 752 00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:14,000 Speaker 1: at the pedestal and the m c P surround him. 753 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,399 Speaker 1: I like that that. You know, it's that's a relationship 754 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,160 Speaker 1: with the technology. We can be objective to it or 755 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 1: we can be subjected to being inside the technology and 756 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,960 Speaker 1: it's completely surrounds us. I always pictured him as kind 757 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:39,840 Speaker 1: of a it's funny processor, like a food processor, because 758 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,359 Speaker 1: he's kind of like a juicer you think about it. 759 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,560 Speaker 1: You know, he brings in these programs and he these 760 00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 1: entities and then he juices them to extract their information. 761 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:59,320 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you a little funny um story about 762 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:03,759 Speaker 1: the EP and Flynn, which is that I didn't know 763 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:10,399 Speaker 1: that Jeff who's contribution. I can't stop bragging about how, 764 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:14,320 Speaker 1: you know, great he is in that role, but um, 765 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:19,240 Speaker 1: and I cast him, so the uh, that was my contribution. 766 00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:25,560 Speaker 1: He did the rest, but he UM, I didn't know 767 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:30,400 Speaker 1: he was going to do this clue persona. And so 768 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,240 Speaker 1: we started filming the tank scene and he was doing 769 00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,960 Speaker 1: it and it was really cool and it was a 770 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,919 Speaker 1: daring move on his part. But then the MC et 771 00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,960 Speaker 1: the recognizers common they capture Clue and then they put 772 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:46,680 Speaker 1: him in the m c P and uh, he starts 773 00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,960 Speaker 1: getting d rez and then he starts screaming for his 774 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:55,480 Speaker 1: life and Jeff delivers this great, you know, heartfelt moment 775 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,719 Speaker 1: of like, you know, I'm not giving into you, m 776 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,080 Speaker 1: c P. But he doesn't do it in the clue voice. 777 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:07,920 Speaker 1: He does it as in his real voice, and neither 778 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,440 Speaker 1: of us caught that. No one caught that inconsistency that, 779 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,480 Speaker 1: if you think about it, that should have been in 780 00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:19,120 Speaker 1: the Clue program voice. But and you know, but it 781 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,719 Speaker 1: isn't and it's a little bit like it's kind of 782 00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,480 Speaker 1: freaky because it's a little bit like Clue was dying 783 00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,839 Speaker 1: and then the last thing he did was act like, 784 00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, a user just before the end. So that's 785 00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,840 Speaker 1: you know, it was kind of a happy accident. But 786 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,440 Speaker 1: anyway that the m c P was was like, you know, 787 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:48,080 Speaker 1: a food processor with people or characters. And that design 788 00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:52,279 Speaker 1: actually did not change all that much. I mean it 789 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:57,160 Speaker 1: was it was worked over brilliantly by sid Meade and 790 00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:04,840 Speaker 1: improved a lot, but that the through line went back years. Well, 791 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,720 Speaker 1: I guess, uh, you know, to me just seeing that 792 00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:15,240 Speaker 1: that image, uh, that that enormous head, that booming voice 793 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:22,160 Speaker 1: it's consuming the the information uh from from other programs. 794 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,919 Speaker 1: To me today, like when I think of the Internet voice, 795 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,160 Speaker 1: that's the voice that's in my head, it's the voice 796 00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,319 Speaker 1: of m c P as it's as it's consuming. And 797 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:34,120 Speaker 1: you know, talking again about pressions, like there's so much 798 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:38,120 Speaker 1: here about the merging of what it is to be 799 00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:42,719 Speaker 1: human and the technology that we create. It really really 800 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,960 Speaker 1: seems like the singularity, like that concept of the singularity 801 00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,520 Speaker 1: of of humans elevating themselves to the next level. Perhaps 802 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,880 Speaker 1: merging with machines or incorporating machines in some way. Sometimes 803 00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:55,719 Speaker 1: it doesn't involve that, but but a lot of the 804 00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,759 Speaker 1: versions of the Singularity do. This seems like, uh, it 805 00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,759 Speaker 1: was very much in that that sort of vein, like 806 00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,680 Speaker 1: this idea of yeah, well is it. You know, there 807 00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:08,760 Speaker 1: were no we didn't use the term user before Tron, 808 00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:12,400 Speaker 1: and people didn't know what the word meant, and people 809 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,440 Speaker 1: didn't have computers. I mean, there were no really you know, handful, 810 00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:22,120 Speaker 1: but people were and they were crude at best. So, um, 811 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,960 Speaker 1: this whole idea of your sort of your alter ego, 812 00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:30,520 Speaker 1: your avatar being you know, in there in the form 813 00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:35,680 Speaker 1: of your information, that just keeps building every year, so 814 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:41,160 Speaker 1: that you know, it's it's getting to the point where 815 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,520 Speaker 1: we really are creating, as much as possible, a double 816 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:52,839 Speaker 1: ganger of ourselves digitally. And I mean, I think what's 817 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,000 Speaker 1: interesting is that Nintendo, i've heard, has done studies on 818 00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:03,160 Speaker 1: how people picture themselves in their mind's eye, and they've 819 00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:08,280 Speaker 1: come to the conclusion that we imagine ourselves is somewhat 820 00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,920 Speaker 1: a cartoon version of ourselves. And I think that's one 821 00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:17,560 Speaker 1: of the reasons that Nintendo video games as successful and 822 00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,440 Speaker 1: brilliant as they are. I mean, part of that success 823 00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:25,200 Speaker 1: I think comes from working with that theory that you know, 824 00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:30,160 Speaker 1: they're not realistic, and I think that the idea of 825 00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:34,560 Speaker 1: a realistic double Ganger a sort of copy of ourselves. 826 00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,719 Speaker 1: I think that that's a in some ways maybe more challenging, 827 00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:45,600 Speaker 1: and I think that's part of the challenge that we're 828 00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:51,640 Speaker 1: actually facing that, you know, it's it's a little bit 829 00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:55,960 Speaker 1: like not only we're creating a double Gang or Earth 830 00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,600 Speaker 1: and a digital one. And like I said earlier, I 831 00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:06,799 Speaker 1: think we feel good about that because it doesn't confound 832 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:11,400 Speaker 1: us like the universe. You know, it has problems like 833 00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,239 Speaker 1: hackers and trolls. But yeah, we can deal with that, 834 00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:19,919 Speaker 1: you know, because ultimately those are people, those are those 835 00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:26,800 Speaker 1: ineffable forces. We don't understand. Its CEO too. Yeah, it's 836 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,520 Speaker 1: Jonathan from One again, just breaking in to say we're 837 00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,880 Speaker 1: going to take another quick break and be right back 838 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:43,880 Speaker 1: with the interview Stephen Lisberger. This has been a huge 839 00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,920 Speaker 1: thrill for me to to talk to the writer and 840 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,920 Speaker 1: director of a film that, you know what played a 841 00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,920 Speaker 1: big part in my childhood and I watch it frequently, 842 00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:56,240 Speaker 1: so I have in fact, I want to take this 843 00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:01,120 Speaker 1: opportunity to thank you for your quarters. Oh there have 844 00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,480 Speaker 1: been an I didn't even get into the arcades section 845 00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,200 Speaker 1: of this because I mean, you know, I just had 846 00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,680 Speaker 1: to had one footnote because I can't resist, which is 847 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:12,920 Speaker 1: you know people always talking about, well, the first Tron, 848 00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,480 Speaker 1: you know, it didn't make enough money. It wasn't e 849 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,040 Speaker 1: t Well the movie paid for itself as a movie, 850 00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:24,720 Speaker 1: but the video game paid for the entire movie. Too 851 00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,240 Speaker 1: many a week's allowance went into disks of Tron For me, 852 00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:33,160 Speaker 1: I remember the full console, like the one you would 853 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,040 Speaker 1: step in and play and uh and yeah, I played 854 00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,840 Speaker 1: a lot of that game. Yeah. Do you know about 855 00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,000 Speaker 1: the Tron ride in Shanghai. I have heard about this. 856 00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,400 Speaker 1: I have not made my way to Asia yet and 857 00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:51,360 Speaker 1: second out on YouTube Tron Shanghai and um, it's pretty amazing. 858 00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:56,360 Speaker 1: They worked on that ride for over fifteen years. Actually happened. Yeah, 859 00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,439 Speaker 1: I've heard of I've heard about a new one coming 860 00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,120 Speaker 1: to to do it in Florida now. So I'm really 861 00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:06,520 Speaker 1: excited about that because you know, the thing is, like 862 00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:10,000 Speaker 1: you said earlier, people think of Tron and you know 863 00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,520 Speaker 1: it's sometimes too literally like oh, you know, it's a 864 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,520 Speaker 1: small world in there. You know, it's a small world 865 00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:21,000 Speaker 1: after all. And but it's funny because with the Tron ride, 866 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:25,240 Speaker 1: the world of Tron is immense. You're small and you 867 00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,880 Speaker 1: get on the ride, and in some ways that's the 868 00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:34,640 Speaker 1: whole you know, that's the most thrilling part to be 869 00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:38,520 Speaker 1: small and have that recognizer looming over your head, for instance, 870 00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,439 Speaker 1: to make that leak to realize, oh, you know, this 871 00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:47,120 Speaker 1: world is not small. And so yeah, it's really cool 872 00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:50,880 Speaker 1: the ride. But anyway, yeah, the game and the ride. 873 00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:55,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I can't wait to experience the ride. I really, 874 00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,640 Speaker 1: I really am looking forward to that. The game remains 875 00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:00,880 Speaker 1: one of my favorites. I'm a I'm a child of 876 01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:05,160 Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties, so the Arcade experience was really 877 01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:10,080 Speaker 1: an important one for me growing up. Also, Tron obviously 878 01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,959 Speaker 1: being in that realm of for a lot of people, 879 01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,360 Speaker 1: it was kind of their introduction to this concept of 880 01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:19,120 Speaker 1: taking taking a very abstract idea in the form of 881 01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:23,080 Speaker 1: computer program and really turning it into something relatable. I mean, 882 01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:26,400 Speaker 1: to have a computer program that could technically just be oh, well, 883 01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:28,480 Speaker 1: this is just a spreadsheet program, but no, in this 884 01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:34,000 Speaker 1: world that is a an anthropomorphic creation that can fight 885 01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:40,360 Speaker 1: for you. That's uh pretty amazing concept. Uh, I this 886 01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:45,400 Speaker 1: was a huge thrill for me. Uh, thank you so much. Yeah, 887 01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,200 Speaker 1: if you get a chance to get a word in, 888 01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I'll totally be an extra in Tron three. 889 01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,600 Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy to be. Yeah, just sitting at sitting 890 01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,320 Speaker 1: off at the side. I'm perfectly fine. I just want 891 01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,000 Speaker 1: to I want to be in the room where it 892 01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:03,120 Speaker 1: happens as they say, thank you for joining me again. Okay, 893 01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:09,160 Speaker 1: you too. Bye. I hope you enjoyed that discussion with 894 01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,240 Speaker 1: Mr Lisburger. I could have easily kept talking for another 895 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,080 Speaker 1: hour or two with him, and I get the feeling 896 01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:17,920 Speaker 1: he would have indulged me for as long as he 897 01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,520 Speaker 1: had the time to do so. I've always had an 898 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:25,200 Speaker 1: appreciation for Tron I've always enjoyed that movie ever since 899 01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,200 Speaker 1: it first came out, But now that appreciation is even 900 01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,880 Speaker 1: more profound knowing the challenges that the team faced in 901 01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,320 Speaker 1: order to produce this movie at the time that it 902 01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,880 Speaker 1: was made, going to the point where you would swear 903 01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,720 Speaker 1: that this was computer generated imagery, and then knowing that 904 01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:45,000 Speaker 1: it was hand animated, hand drawn on top of actual 905 01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:50,320 Speaker 1: individual cells of film. It's incredible to think of how 906 01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,480 Speaker 1: much work and care and love went into this film 907 01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:57,120 Speaker 1: and created that distinctive look and feel. And also, I 908 01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,080 Speaker 1: really do hope I can show up in Tron three 909 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:05,520 Speaker 1: The Balls in your Court Disney call me well. I 910 01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,520 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed this interview from two thousand seventeen. It 911 01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:10,640 Speaker 1: was a real pleasure to get to do it. It 912 01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:15,320 Speaker 1: was something I had not even anticipated. Ramsey really came 913 01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,760 Speaker 1: through and landed that interview for me, which was incredible, 914 01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,880 Speaker 1: and thought that maybe you, if you hadn't had chance 915 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,240 Speaker 1: to hear it, you might be interested to learn more 916 01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:31,400 Speaker 1: about what went into the creation of a really, I 917 01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:35,280 Speaker 1: think a really influential film. Not a perfect film by 918 01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,040 Speaker 1: any stretch of the imagination, but one that I think 919 01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,959 Speaker 1: influenced a lot of other filmmakers as well as people 920 01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:47,560 Speaker 1: who were getting into computer animation or computer games. Um. 921 01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:51,560 Speaker 1: It really had an impact, and obviously Tron legacy when 922 01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:55,120 Speaker 1: that came out extended that further. Um and we got 923 01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:59,440 Speaker 1: the amazing Daft punk soundtrack. So there's a lot about 924 01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:02,560 Speaker 1: Tron that I think is cool, and some of it 925 01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,480 Speaker 1: are the ripple effects from the movie, not just the 926 01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:09,120 Speaker 1: movie itself. If you have suggestions for topics I should 927 01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:11,960 Speaker 1: cover in future episodes of tech Stuff, Please reach out 928 01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,760 Speaker 1: to me. The best way to do that is over 929 01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,000 Speaker 1: on Twitter. The handle we use for the show is 930 01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:18,800 Speaker 1: text stuff H s W and I'll talk to you 931 01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:28,400 Speaker 1: again really soon. Text Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. 932 01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:31,440 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I 933 01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:34,800 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 934 01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:35,760 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.