WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Murder on the Herbert Fuller 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:03.240 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.720 by the Tupac is definitely dead, so stop looking for 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.119 him foundation. Instead, it's brought to you by us and 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:12.000 Crime Con. If you don't know, I'm sure you do, 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:15.120 but if you don't, in exactly one week, we will 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.840 be at Crime Con in Indianapolis, Indiana. There are day 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.799 passes available for those of you who may not be 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:25.640 able to afford the weekend passes. Also, if you can't 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:27.560 afford to go, we're going to do a free meet 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.920 up in Indianapolis, so stay tuned on social media. Will 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.479 tweet out a location probably in the next day or 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.800 two and m a time as well. And we'd love 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.519 to see you, love to meet you, you know, just 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.519 come out out and and really just celebrate with us. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.600 We really hope we'll see you then. And uh yeah, cheers. 0:00:50.159 --> 0:01:04.160 Thinking I don't know stories and things we simply don't 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.840 know the answer to. Hi there, Welcome to another episode 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:13.720 of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as always by Steve 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.640 and and uh, of course, let me say once again, 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.280 I'm Joe. So let's just have less I know, because 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:25.160 I'm the important one. At least, I'm the pretty one. 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:29.080 That's true. Yeah, Yeah, Devon is a smart one. Yeah 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.040 that's true. Okay, well let's talk about our mystery for 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:34.640 this week. This is another maritime mystery, which I know 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:40.480 everybody loves, right, and we're surprised it's Joe doing it. Surprised. Yeah, 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:42.480 this is a fun little sort of murder on the 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.360 high seas saying this is murder on the Herbert Fuller 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:50.880 or what's your SubTime pleasantness on the high seas? Yeah, yeah, 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.680 the Herbert Fuller was actually a ship, nineteenth century ship. 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:57.160 It was a barking tea. And let me tell you 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:58.800 first off, I know you guys are dying to know 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:00.760 what a barkent Tea was because I don't think they 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.960 build him anymore. Frankly, I don't believe they do. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.040 barkingtein is a ship. Yeah, it's a ship. It's well, 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.240 it's it's a it's a schooner. Rig that's it's a schooner. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.079 It's a schooner. But instead of like having fore and 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.600 aft sales I usually see on sailboats, it's got one 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.359 of the foremast is square rigged. And that's different from 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:25.280 say a bark bark is a similar rig but the 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.079 main mast and the foremaster square ring. What's that mean? 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.600 Is it important? In the middle one? I don't know 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.880 what s the mast in the very front he's the 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:37.120 one he's talking about. And it is a square piece 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:41.120 of canvas instead of a triangular It's really that simple, 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.919 you know. No, no, no, no, no, it's it's it's 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:45.839 got yard arms. I mean it is a square piece 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.080 of Sorry, it's got yard arms hanging at right angles 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.880 to the mast, but sail hangs down. But my question 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.560 was that it's as simple as saying it's square rigged 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.679 versus what's the other one for and aft? What's the 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:02.200 other kind of triangular ring? The foreign four and aft is? Yeah, 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.840 that except except for for gaff riggs, which are more 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:12.680 trapezoidal rather than triangular. Yeah, there you go. All right. 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:15.560 So now we were in our not a lesson for 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:17.840 the day. We know what a barcntine is. Next week 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.360 we're gonna how to tell you knot for the bowl 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:23.720 and handy knot by the way. Uh so our barcntine. 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:27.840 The Herbert Fuller left Boston on Friday, June July third, 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:31.280 and I had a little lumber. It was headed for 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.840 real saudio Argentina long way to go to Hallwood. But 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:37.760 you know, hey, whatever, I thought that trees there, but 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:39.320 I'm wrong. I was going to say the wood in 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.600 America's vastly superior to any other woods. It really is. Yeah, 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.600 I'm actually that was one of the things that was 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.960 confusing to be at Argentina doesn't really have much of 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.520 the way of hardwoods, but on the other hand, Brazil 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:54.000 does and like not that far away, so well prices 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.080 or like size. Yeah, I mean, we had bought load 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.720 of really giant old growth trees before we came in 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:02.880 and starting to cut them all down. So maybe that 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.640 was it. You know, if they needed larger lumber, probably 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.160 come from North America, no, South America. Maybe that was it. 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.560 Maybe they just did that the technology to mill it 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.280 down to toothpicks and they had him have us do it. Yeah, 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:15.680 so it was a ship a little toothpicks. Yeah, I 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.000 don't know, but anyway, that's the story. They had lumber. 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.640 They were heading for Argentina. Uh, here's the crew members. 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.679 Small crew. There was a captain Charles Nash. His wife 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.120 Laura Nash went to see with him, and she was 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:31.320 described by the press as well endowed whatever that means. 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:37.120 We know what that means. Press why, I don't know. Well, 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.039 it might have been something different years ago. I don't 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.000 think so, yeah, but maybe. Well. Yeah. One of the 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.159 other members of the crew was a half black guy, 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.840 what they called him mulatto, Jonathan Spencer. He was a steward. 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.599 And this news account that I read, I think was 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:57.920 a New York Times said Jonathan Steward Comma colored, Comma Steward, Steward. 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.560 I didn't say that. I didn't say about white for 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:07.080 any of the other people. Yeah, that's what I was like. Yeah, okay, 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.880 back to our captain and his wife, Laura Nash, and 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.159 then nine crew members and one passenger. The passenger was 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:20.599 Lester Monks, the old name Hawthorne, Lester Hathorne Monks. White. White, yeah, white, Harvard, Yeah, 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:25.320 twenty years old Harvard students who was having bracchial issues apparently, 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.400 and he decided that he thought that a sea journey 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.960 along sea journey would be good for his bronculi issue. 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:34.039 I bet he was. I bet some doctor was like, yeah, 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:35.520 I know what's good for you. To get you on 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.400 a ship. It's exactly what happened. His doctor told him 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.279 to do it because the sea air would clear his lungs. 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.360 It's it's like when they would say, you've got tuberculosis, 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:46.320 you should move to the country and get the clean 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.960 country air and it will. Yeah, that's one of my 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.880 favorite things. I watch a lot of Agatha Christie's poiro 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.320 and it's like, my favorite thing is like he's suffering 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.479 from obesity in one episode and they're like, do you 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.400 know what you need? The sea air that'll here you. 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:03.800 So they send him to an island, Like has nothing 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:05.800 to do with all of the biscuits, you're you know, 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.560 it's definitely you just need to see hair. My favorite was, 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.160 you're not feeling well. Let's let's take a little blood. 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.160 That'll make you feel better. That'll that'll cure you. We 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.800 gotta drain you have bad blood. Yeah and then yeah 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:18.920 that I god knows how many people got killed by 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.400 their own doctors back in those You gotta love a 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.240 good barber. Yeah, so, Joe, Okay, we got off track. 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.919 Your so how many how many people are in the 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.200 crew total? Because I I thought I saw a different 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.880 number than what you have is white mask. I think, well, 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.480 if you count the captain, we're talking like ten Okay, 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.960 that's what screwed me up. And then there were two 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.719 while there's his wife and then Lester Monks, right, and 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:43.800 that's okay. So that's where the variance that I saw 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.839 was okay, So yeah, I got it, so yeah, real quickly. 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.919 Like the crew. The first mate was Thomas bram For 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:54.240 full named Thomas Meade Chambers brown. White, yeah, white, comma yeah, 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:59.760 second sorry. The second day was August Bloomberg, I don't know, 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:04.200 August Blomberg, who was a Russian Finn. Yeah, white guy. 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.599 Jonathan Spencer, who was the non white guy, the steward 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:09.640 who apparently was the only guy who had sailed with 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.480 Captain Nash before on this particular voyage. And then the 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.720 regular old seaman type guys, Henry j. Slice who was 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:21.040 a German who was naturalized American, Francis Lohiuck. I don't 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:22.800 know how to pronounce his last name, doesn't matter. He 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:26.000 was French, he was. It was a deserter from the 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:31.800 French Navy. Hendrik Burdock, Holland Folk Boston, Oscar Anderson Julius Westerberg, 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:36.360 all from Sweeden. Uh and Julius was had for some reason, 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.240 it was called Charlie Brown. That's a weird nickname for 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.720 a Swedish guy named Julius Westerberg. I don't know. I 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.920 don't get it either, but he was Charlie Brown switter 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.480 that had a zigzag pattern on it. Apparently he did. 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:50.440 Uh so, as I said already, the Herbert Fuller left 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.840 Boston July third, headed south southeast for about ten days 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.080 before things went all to hell, and then on the 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.240 night of July thirteen to the fourteen was one things 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.040 did take a turn for the worst. It was in 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:05.760 the mid Atlantic, about halfway between Portugal and the United States, 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:10.600 about four hundred miles south of Bermuda. After midnight. There 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.240 are only four men away supposedly anyway, but maybe as 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.880 many as five people awake. Thomas Bram of course, the 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.480 first mate, Charlie Brown, who was at the helm, Francis 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:23.520 lahak Or, the unpronounceable French guy, and Henry Product, and 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.280 they were forward as Servia's lookouts. Captain Nash was asleep 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:29.400 in the chart room. The chart room was aft of 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:33.080 the main cabin, between the main cabin and the steering station. 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.360 Apparently the captain slept there quite often. Maybe he liked 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.600 to give his wife's space or maybe his wife's snore, 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:42.920 but also the captain. Yeah, the captain was often very 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.320 close to the helm well, but also just it happened 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.120 often that I mean as recently at the nineteen fifties, 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:53.040 it was typical for married people to sleep in separate beds. 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:54.960 I mean, we've got a map here, and if you 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.800 look at the schematic of the layout of the rooms, 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.640 they look very big. I mean, I'm not surprised that 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:04.200 they're not that big. So two people squeezed into one room, 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.360 it's kind of tight quarters. And actually, frankly, the two 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.640 largest rooms are the captain's room and the captain's wife's room. 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:13.599 That's how it looks like, right, So I mean you 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.360 would as far as as far as sleeping quarters, yeah, yeah, 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.719 they are, well, the captain's room in the captain's wife 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.880 room with the same room you're looking at, the after 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.800 cabin Yeah, the after cabinet had the couch in that 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.000 he was sleeping on. Yeah. Yeah, that was not his stateroom. 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:34.800 Yeah okay, yeah, rewind, Yeah, and there was it's known 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.840 that he was sleeping there because that was reported later 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.040 by Henry Slice, who was at the wheel from before. 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:43.120 I don't know when he began, but he was at 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.880 the wheel until midnight when he was spelled by Charlie Brown. 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.640 I actually just realized this guy has a very unfortunate 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:52.920 name based on, yeah, what happened in this story. I'm 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.160 surprised he didn't get arrested and like sent to jail 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.360 for this hank slice. Uh. But he said there was 0:09:58.360 --> 0:09:59.800 a there was a window. You can actually have a 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.800 on here. You can see this this little window that's 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.280 into the chart room right here over on the side there. 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.920 But anyway, this this uh, this small window which is 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.600 I take a eleven by sixteen inches about looks into 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.720 the chart room. And he said, from his station at 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:15.679 the wheel, he could see the captain's leg from about 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.520 the knee on down in the chart room. And as 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.640 we know, that is the most important part of the 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.120 leg for telling if somebody or telling if there the 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:26.800 captain or not. You know, it's like or telling if 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.440 it's even a huven being rather versus two prop legs 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.360 that the captain put there while the captain went off 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.720 and did something else that with the aliens could have been. 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:36.480 But that's all he saw, so he assumed it was 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:38.319 a captain. Yeah, especially it could have just been to 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.720 you know, wooden pegs, because if I learned anything about 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.120 people who are captains, they all have pig legs. Don't 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:45.840 thing we'll have one pig leg. Well, he said he 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:47.840 could see the one leg. Yeah, I could see. It 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.640 was dark. Yeah, just saying it was kind of dark. 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.200 But anyway, he but he says he saw the captain news. 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.200 He thought the captain was there, but then he was 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:59.960 spelled at midnight by Charlie Brown. Our passenger, Lester Monk, 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:05.800 went to sleep around eight pm. Okay, yeah, sorry, I 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:07.600 was going to make fun of the twenty year old 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:09.640 who's like, it's a p M. Time to turn it. 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:11.760 But then I remembered he was super sick, so I 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:13.400 felt that I don't know if he was super sick 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:15.839 super sick. I don't think there was a whole lot 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.480 going on on board the ship. Actually, no, I imagine 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.360 there was a lot of boredom. It would have been 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.600 light out still, though probably I probably would stayed away 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:26.440 a little later myself, because I said, yeah, you're right, 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:28.440 it was July in the mid Atlantic. There should have 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.120 been some light still. But we don't. No matter whatever happened, 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.800 he wants to sleep around eight and he was awoken 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.079 in the middle of the night by a scream, just 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.959 like in the mystery novels Who And that scream was 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.000 no doubt from Laura Nash, who was being murdered. As 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:43.840 it turns out, she does wind up getting killed in 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.480 this story. Uh, And Monks said, he sat up and 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.520 listened because he was well awoken by it, so he 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.440 wasn't sure if he just dreamed it or what. And 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:53.240 he started to lay his head back down on the 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.600 on the bed, and then he hears another scream, So well, 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.080 it's it's real after all, he decided. So he gets up. 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.080 You get to revolver out and he left his cabin. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.560 So monkst cabin opened directly onto what's the main the 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.240 main cabin, and from the main cabin, it's like the 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.719 chart room leads off there, the captain's stateroom leads off 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.160 of there, the pantry. It's literally just in the middle 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.920 of all in the middle of a bunch of other small, 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.400 big open room in the middle everything opens on to it. Yeah, 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.120 he's he goes into the main cabin and then he 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.440 goes aft to the chart room where the captain was 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.439 sleeping or what the captain had been sleeping, because the 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.080 captain you're using body terms maybe, yeah, aft, I mean 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.400 he went back towards the rear of the boat of 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.160 the ship. Yeah, okay, And when he got there, it 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.000 was kind of dark, but he saw that the captain's 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.520 cot had been knocked over, and then he heard gurgling 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.360 noises and he approached the captain and saw him in 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.480 the darkness. He couldn't make him out too closely, but 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.440 the captain went again, as I said, was making these 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.600 weird gurgling noises and nothing else. And then he reached 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.200 out to touch him and his aunt came away with 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.840 blood all over it. So he has seen something really 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.320 bad had happened. He'd fallen out of his cotton, gotten 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.320 a bloody nose, yeah or yeah, or bloody everything. Uh 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.360 So what he said he did then is he went 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.439 out or not to have went forward to Laura Nash's 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.000 cabin because, as he said, Larry wanted to get her 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.120 help with Captain Nash because he thought something had happened. Yeah, 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.160 like he had a bloody nose. He had a bloody 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.720 nose or something, and he's laying there gurgling. So so 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.200 he runs to get her, and he at this point 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.240 did not realize what had happened. But I'll tell you. 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.800 I'll go ahead and clear you guys in the captain 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.120 got hacked up with an ax Ax murder hit in 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:36.280 the head I think six or seven. Yeah, yeah, pretty 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:40.400 pretty nasty gashes. But when Lester Monks gets to Laura's cabin, 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.520 I finds out, well, she's been murdered too, and her 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.240 arms for U C S I types had defensive wounds, 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.880 so she had gouges and slashes in her in her forearms, 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.599 in her hands. But she didn't help her much. She 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:54.360 got killed anyway. And I don't think he checked your pulse. 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.120 He just wanted head and went forward, you know. Apparently 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.680 she was just obviously dead, and then sometimes I happened. Yeah, 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.320 So he goes out the forward passageway and up a 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.880 ladder to the deck when he sees Charles Bram on deck. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.040 Charles Brown first mate, calls out to him, and but 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:11.679 it turns out he's also got his gun with him 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:16.200 and he's pointing at Bram, which made Bram a little nervous. Yeah, 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.079 grabs a piece of wood and throws it at him, 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.920 but he actually missed it anyway, Then Lester realized what 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.320 he was doing, and then so then stop pointing. He's 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.160 got at Bram. But then he says the cat has 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.720 been murdered, and he told Bram, you've got to come 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.760 blow and see. And then, according to Monks, Bram said no, no, no. 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.800 Although I'm not exactly sure how he said that. All 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.400 this stuff get is kind of subjective, and it comes 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.880 back to hot Bram's later on because he becomes the 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.440 main suspect. All of these statements could be said in 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.840 a multitude of ways to implicate guilt or not. Yeah, 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.800 how how how does him saying no, no, no, like 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.680 if he sees the bodies and he goes, no, no no, 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:56.760 you know, like like you know, people do somethings. You 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.480 just kind of mutter something under your breath when you're 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.360 in a stressful situation. Or he could be the overly 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:07.840 dramatic no no no, just like he's acting super over 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.920 acting because some of the stuff he says. I looked, 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.600 I was like, he is such a bad actor. I 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:19.640 thought maybe he is just really pooping his pants. Yeah, maybe, 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:21.840 you know, you don't really know, and maybe some people 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.680 have exaggerated a few things that he said too. I 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:26.240 think what he said no, no, no, but he really 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.840 meant was he it was dismayed because he had gone 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.480 down the captain's stateroom with an axe to get a souvenir. 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:35.400 He wanted to captain's ear, and he screwed up, didn't 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:40.760 get it in time. Yeah, I screwed up. Yeah, yeah, okay, 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:46.520 so say no, no, no, that's talked into going below 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.200 to actually go after the chart room. Why the lamp, 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.760 and well here's a captain who is still not quite dead, 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.600 still dying. Uh. And then, according to Lester Monks, Braham 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:57.920 just stood there and said nothing and did nothing to 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.400 help Captain Nash. Yeah, but it doesn't really sound like 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:04.600 monst at anything. He kind of just stood there and 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.120 they were like, well, dude, I can't do anything. I'm 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:11.240 holding the lamp. You've got helping No, no, no, no, 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:16.120 I have the revolver, I have the gun. Let's get 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:17.960 his wife. She can deal with it. I guess, yeah, 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.560 I guess it's fairness to both of them. Uh. You know, 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.840 there really wasn't anything they could do. He was kind 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.160 of a goner. Yeah, although I'm I've been watched this 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.000 has been like an ongoing discussion in my house because, 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.600 as you guys know, I'm I've been like kind of 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:35.640 progressively pursuing more and more first aid training, right, and um, 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:40.200 my significant other who I live with, has has no certification. 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.480 He wasn't a boy scout, and like that's the last 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.200 time he took it, and so he now knows everything 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:49.000 he needs to notice survive in the actually teach you everything. Well, 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.720 it's this ongoing conversation of like I'm always like why 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.360 are more people trained? And why aren't why don't more 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.840 people get involved? You know, we drive past a car 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:58.880 accident and I'm like, oh my god, is someone hurt? 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.120 Like we need to stop in make sure, And he's 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.000 like no, there's like twenty people there, and I'm like, well, 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:05.840 and I think that happens a lot in these situations 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.080 where people just kind of are like I don't know 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.480 what to do. I'm going to make it worse. I'm 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.560 just gonna stand here and I don't know, Like I 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.560 don't know what to do, especially at where first aid 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:21.400 was but existed, right, which is probably why Monks was like, well, obviously, 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.760 like the first mate is going to know how to 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:25.600 help this guy, right, He's going to know how to 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.000 help him, not necessarily, and you know, and it's probably 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:30.840 just you know, both of them standing there thinking the 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.960 other guy's going to do something because they know, but 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.760 you know, neither of them did. I don't necessarily think 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:40.160 it's suspicious, but it wasn't great, not suspicious. But you know, 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:42.880 back in those days, you probably only make things worse. 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.600 But even touching him, we'd probably give him infection just 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.240 by touching him. So yeah, just leave alone. Yeah, sorry, 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:49.880 that was a long tangent to get to my bed. 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.600 That's okay, okay O. Our guys after standing over the 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:56.520 captain for for a moment or two, they go back 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.760 up on deck and then they're sort of wondering what 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.399 to you. Monks Lester Monks suggested they wake up the 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.000 second mate, Blomberg. It was interesting to go back up 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:07.520 on deck. I would have thought they would have had 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.600 to go past the door to his stateroom. Anyway, Well, 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:12.879 there's two there's two ways to egg. I could have 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.240 gone aft, yeah, but I'm not sure that they want 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:17.879 aff they went aft, that would have taken past the 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.560 steering wheel where the steering station where Charlie Brown was, 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.320 wouldn't they have gone out into the little hall area. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.120 I mean, yeah, yeah, that little that little corridor leaves 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:31.199 forward forward past of the second mate's cabin. Yeah, I know, 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.080 the opposite way. But now I'm realizing that that actually 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:40.320 also ducks out to the columns. So I'm pretty sure 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:44.320 they went forward. Well anyway, you know, details um and 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.480 then Bran supposedly told Monks that he thought there was 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.360 a mute and you going on and uh and and 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.280 he believed that second mate Blomberg was forward with the 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.360 rest of the crew plodding with them. And Bram said 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:57.879 that he was afraid the crew was going to murder 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.359 him because apparently he said he'd been really art on 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.320 them and he thought they would be looking for a 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.200 little payback. But he's a little paranoidn't But weren't Monks 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:11.200 and and Bram's or Bram forward, They would have been 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.399 about a midships I think they were on deck midship. 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:16.840 They on deck about midship, and they couldn't see. It 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.199 was too dark. It was dark, and it was it 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.679 was dark, and there's a there's a cabin up towards 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.040 about that. The people could have been behind, you know, 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.200 I don't know but apparently and this is this boat. 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:29.560 The ship I guess was about two feet long, so 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:35.600 it's pretty big. Okay, decent side, We've got a paranoid 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:40.359 first meet, very paranoid and murdered captain and wife. Captain 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.560 and wife and nobody knows what the second mate is 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:47.040 not yet but we'll find out right now after this 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:52.960 commercial break. Just kidding. Uh. Bram and Monks basically sat 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:54.640 on the deck for the rest of the night. They 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.040 and in a situation like that, when you've just seen 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:58.440 a couple of people that have been hacked to death 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:00.520 with an axe, I think sitting back to back on 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:02.359 the deck with your you know, your your guard up, 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.720 it's not a bad idea, it would agree, especially since 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:06.919 you watched one of them die. But it's not like you. 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.800 I mean, they walked in on one really horrific scene 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:15.080 and then watched out to the last last of his life. 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.600 I would probably sit up to Yeah, I think so. Uh. 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:20.679 After the sun came out, though, they decided to get 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:25.600 the ship. Stuart Spencer, who apparently fairly experienced sailor chep guy. 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:28.760 Spencer goes after check on the captain and turns out 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:30.880 the captain is dead. And he's been chopped seven eight 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:33.320 times in the head with an axe. Was Spencer the 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:38.480 only one who had also traveled with the captain before, Yeah, exactly. 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:43.560