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Speaker 1: This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you

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Speaker 1: two and m a time as well. And we'd love

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Speaker 1: to see you, love to meet you, you know, just

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Speaker 1: come out out and and really just celebrate with us.

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Speaker 1: We really hope we'll see you then. And uh yeah, cheers.

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Speaker 1: Thinking I don't know stories and things we simply don't

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Speaker 1: know the answer to. Hi there, Welcome to another episode

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Speaker 1: of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as always by Steve

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Speaker 1: and and uh, of course, let me say once again,

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe. So let's just have less I know, because

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Speaker 1: I'm the important one. At least, I'm the pretty one.

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Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, Yeah, Devon is a smart one. Yeah

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Speaker 1: that's true. Okay, well let's talk about our mystery for

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Speaker 1: this week. This is another maritime mystery, which I know

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Speaker 1: everybody loves, right, and we're surprised it's Joe doing it. Surprised. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a fun little sort of murder on the

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Speaker 1: high seas saying this is murder on the Herbert Fuller

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Speaker 1: or what's your SubTime pleasantness on the high seas? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Herbert Fuller was actually a ship, nineteenth century ship.

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Speaker 1: It was a barking tea. And let me tell you

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Speaker 1: first off, I know you guys are dying to know

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Speaker 1: what a barkent Tea was because I don't think they

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Speaker 1: build him anymore. Frankly, I don't believe they do. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: barkingtein is a ship. Yeah, it's a ship. It's well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a schooner. Rig that's it's a schooner.

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Speaker 1: It's a schooner. But instead of like having fore and

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Speaker 1: aft sales I usually see on sailboats, it's got one

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Speaker 1: of the foremast is square rigged. And that's different from

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Speaker 1: say a bark bark is a similar rig but the

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Speaker 1: main mast and the foremaster square ring. What's that mean?

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Speaker 1: Is it important? In the middle one? I don't know

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Speaker 1: what s the mast in the very front he's the

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Speaker 1: one he's talking about. And it is a square piece

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Speaker 1: of canvas instead of a triangular It's really that simple,

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Speaker 1: you know. No, no, no, no, no, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: got yard arms. I mean it is a square piece

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Speaker 1: of Sorry, it's got yard arms hanging at right angles

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Speaker 1: to the mast, but sail hangs down. But my question

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Speaker 1: was that it's as simple as saying it's square rigged

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Speaker 1: versus what's the other one for and aft? What's the

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Speaker 1: other kind of triangular ring? The foreign four and aft is? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that except except for for gaff riggs, which are more

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Speaker 1: trapezoidal rather than triangular. Yeah, there you go. All right.

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Speaker 1: So now we were in our not a lesson for

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Speaker 1: the day. We know what a barcntine is. Next week

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Speaker 1: we're gonna how to tell you knot for the bowl

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Speaker 1: and handy knot by the way. Uh so our barcntine.

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Speaker 1: The Herbert Fuller left Boston on Friday, June July third,

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Speaker 1: and I had a little lumber. It was headed for

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Speaker 1: real saudio Argentina long way to go to Hallwood. But

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Speaker 1: you know, hey, whatever, I thought that trees there, but

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong. I was going to say the wood in

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Speaker 1: America's vastly superior to any other woods. It really is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm actually that was one of the things that was

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Speaker 1: confusing to be at Argentina doesn't really have much of

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Speaker 1: the way of hardwoods, but on the other hand, Brazil

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Speaker 1: does and like not that far away, so well prices

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Speaker 1: or like size. Yeah, I mean, we had bought load

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Speaker 1: of really giant old growth trees before we came in

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Speaker 1: and starting to cut them all down. So maybe that

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Speaker 1: was it. You know, if they needed larger lumber, probably

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Speaker 1: come from North America, no, South America. Maybe that was it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they just did that the technology to mill it

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Speaker 1: down to toothpicks and they had him have us do it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it was a ship a little toothpicks. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but anyway, that's the story. They had lumber.

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Speaker 1: They were heading for Argentina. Uh, here's the crew members.

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Speaker 1: Small crew. There was a captain Charles Nash. His wife

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Speaker 1: Laura Nash went to see with him, and she was

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Speaker 1: described by the press as well endowed whatever that means.

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Speaker 1: We know what that means. Press why, I don't know. Well,

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Speaker 1: it might have been something different years ago. I don't

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Speaker 1: think so, yeah, but maybe. Well. Yeah. One of the

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Speaker 1: other members of the crew was a half black guy,

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Speaker 1: what they called him mulatto, Jonathan Spencer. He was a steward.

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Speaker 1: And this news account that I read, I think was

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Speaker 1: a New York Times said Jonathan Steward Comma colored, Comma Steward, Steward.

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Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I didn't say about white for

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Speaker 1: any of the other people. Yeah, that's what I was like. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: back to our captain and his wife, Laura Nash, and

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Speaker 1: then nine crew members and one passenger. The passenger was

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Speaker 1: Lester Monks, the old name Hawthorne, Lester Hathorne Monks. White. White, yeah, white, Harvard, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: twenty years old Harvard students who was having bracchial issues apparently,

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Speaker 1: and he decided that he thought that a sea journey

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Speaker 1: along sea journey would be good for his bronculi issue.

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Speaker 1: I bet he was. I bet some doctor was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know what's good for you. To get you on

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Speaker 1: a ship. It's exactly what happened. His doctor told him

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Speaker 1: to do it because the sea air would clear his lungs.

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Speaker 1: It's it's like when they would say, you've got tuberculosis,

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Speaker 1: you should move to the country and get the clean

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Speaker 1: country air and it will. Yeah, that's one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite things. I watch a lot of Agatha Christie's poiro

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Speaker 1: and it's like, my favorite thing is like he's suffering

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Speaker 1: from obesity in one episode and they're like, do you

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Speaker 1: know what you need? The sea air that'll here you.

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Speaker 1: So they send him to an island, Like has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with all of the biscuits, you're you know,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely you just need to see hair. My favorite was,

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Speaker 1: you're not feeling well. Let's let's take a little blood.

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Speaker 1: That'll make you feel better. That'll that'll cure you. We

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Speaker 1: gotta drain you have bad blood. Yeah and then yeah

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Speaker 1: that I god knows how many people got killed by

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Speaker 1: their own doctors back in those You gotta love a

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Speaker 1: good barber. Yeah, so, Joe, Okay, we got off track.

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Speaker 1: Your so how many how many people are in the

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Speaker 1: crew total? Because I I thought I saw a different

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Speaker 1: number than what you have is white mask. I think, well,

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Speaker 1: if you count the captain, we're talking like ten Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's what screwed me up. And then there were two

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Speaker 1: while there's his wife and then Lester Monks, right, and

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Speaker 1: that's okay. So that's where the variance that I saw

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Speaker 1: was okay, So yeah, I got it, so yeah, real quickly.

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Speaker 1: Like the crew. The first mate was Thomas bram For

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Speaker 1: full named Thomas Meade Chambers brown. White, yeah, white, comma yeah,

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Speaker 1: second sorry. The second day was August Bloomberg, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: August Blomberg, who was a Russian Finn. Yeah, white guy.

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Spencer, who was the non white guy, the steward

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Speaker 1: who apparently was the only guy who had sailed with

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Speaker 1: Captain Nash before on this particular voyage. And then the

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Speaker 1: regular old seaman type guys, Henry j. Slice who was

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Speaker 1: a German who was naturalized American, Francis Lohiuck. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to pronounce his last name, doesn't matter. He

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Speaker 1: was French, he was. It was a deserter from the

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Speaker 1: French Navy. Hendrik Burdock, Holland Folk Boston, Oscar Anderson Julius Westerberg,

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Speaker 1: all from Sweeden. Uh and Julius was had for some reason,

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Speaker 1: it was called Charlie Brown. That's a weird nickname for

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Speaker 1: a Swedish guy named Julius Westerberg. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: don't get it either, but he was Charlie Brown switter

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Speaker 1: that had a zigzag pattern on it. Apparently he did.

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Speaker 1: Uh so, as I said already, the Herbert Fuller left

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Speaker 1: Boston July third, headed south southeast for about ten days

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Speaker 1: before things went all to hell, and then on the

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Speaker 1: night of July thirteen to the fourteen was one things

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Speaker 1: did take a turn for the worst. It was in

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Speaker 1: the mid Atlantic, about halfway between Portugal and the United States,

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Speaker 1: about four hundred miles south of Bermuda. After midnight. There

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Speaker 1: are only four men away supposedly anyway, but maybe as

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Speaker 1: many as five people awake. Thomas Bram of course, the

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Speaker 1: first mate, Charlie Brown, who was at the helm, Francis

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Speaker 1: lahak Or, the unpronounceable French guy, and Henry Product, and

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Speaker 1: they were forward as Servia's lookouts. Captain Nash was asleep

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Speaker 1: in the chart room. The chart room was aft of

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Speaker 1: the main cabin, between the main cabin and the steering station.

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Speaker 1: Apparently the captain slept there quite often. Maybe he liked

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Speaker 1: to give his wife's space or maybe his wife's snore,

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Speaker 1: but also the captain. Yeah, the captain was often very

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Speaker 1: close to the helm well, but also just it happened

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Speaker 1: often that I mean as recently at the nineteen fifties,

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Speaker 1: it was typical for married people to sleep in separate beds.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've got a map here, and if you

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Speaker 1: look at the schematic of the layout of the rooms,

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Speaker 1: they look very big. I mean, I'm not surprised that

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Speaker 1: they're not that big. So two people squeezed into one room,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of tight quarters. And actually, frankly, the two

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Speaker 1: largest rooms are the captain's room and the captain's wife's room.

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Speaker 1: That's how it looks like, right, So I mean you

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Speaker 1: would as far as as far as sleeping quarters, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they are, well, the captain's room in the captain's wife

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Speaker 1: room with the same room you're looking at, the after

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Speaker 1: cabin Yeah, the after cabinet had the couch in that

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Speaker 1: he was sleeping on. Yeah. Yeah, that was not his stateroom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah okay, yeah, rewind, Yeah, and there was it's known

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Speaker 1: that he was sleeping there because that was reported later

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Speaker 1: by Henry Slice, who was at the wheel from before.

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Speaker 1: I don't know when he began, but he was at

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Speaker 1: the wheel until midnight when he was spelled by Charlie Brown.

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Speaker 1: I actually just realized this guy has a very unfortunate

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Speaker 1: name based on, yeah, what happened in this story. I'm

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Speaker 1: surprised he didn't get arrested and like sent to jail

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Speaker 1: for this hank slice. Uh. But he said there was

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Speaker 1: a there was a window. You can actually have a

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Speaker 1: on here. You can see this this little window that's

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Speaker 1: into the chart room right here over on the side there.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, this this uh, this small window which is

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Speaker 1: I take a eleven by sixteen inches about looks into

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Speaker 1: the chart room. And he said, from his station at

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Speaker 1: the wheel, he could see the captain's leg from about

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Speaker 1: the knee on down in the chart room. And as

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Speaker 1: we know, that is the most important part of the

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Speaker 1: leg for telling if somebody or telling if there the

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Speaker 1: captain or not. You know, it's like or telling if

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Speaker 1: it's even a huven being rather versus two prop legs

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Speaker 1: that the captain put there while the captain went off

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Speaker 1: and did something else that with the aliens could have been.

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Speaker 1: But that's all he saw, so he assumed it was

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Speaker 1: a captain. Yeah, especially it could have just been to

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Speaker 1: you know, wooden pegs, because if I learned anything about

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Speaker 1: people who are captains, they all have pig legs. Don't

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Speaker 1: thing we'll have one pig leg. Well, he said he

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Speaker 1: could see the one leg. Yeah, I could see. It

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Speaker 1: was dark. Yeah, just saying it was kind of dark.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, he but he says he saw the captain news.

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Speaker 1: He thought the captain was there, but then he was

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Speaker 1: spelled at midnight by Charlie Brown. Our passenger, Lester Monk,

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Speaker 1: went to sleep around eight pm. Okay, yeah, sorry, I

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Speaker 1: was going to make fun of the twenty year old

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Speaker 1: who's like, it's a p M. Time to turn it.

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Speaker 1: But then I remembered he was super sick, so I

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Speaker 1: felt that I don't know if he was super sick

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Speaker 1: super sick. I don't think there was a whole lot

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Speaker 1: going on on board the ship. Actually, no, I imagine

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of boredom. It would have been

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Speaker 1: light out still, though probably I probably would stayed away

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Speaker 1: a little later myself, because I said, yeah, you're right,

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Speaker 1: it was July in the mid Atlantic. There should have

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Speaker 1: been some light still. But we don't. No matter whatever happened,

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Speaker 1: he wants to sleep around eight and he was awoken

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night by a scream, just

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Speaker 1: like in the mystery novels Who And that scream was

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Speaker 1: no doubt from Laura Nash, who was being murdered. As

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Speaker 1: it turns out, she does wind up getting killed in

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Speaker 1: this story. Uh, And Monks said, he sat up and

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Speaker 1: listened because he was well awoken by it, so he

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Speaker 1: wasn't sure if he just dreamed it or what. And

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Speaker 1: he started to lay his head back down on the

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Speaker 1: on the bed, and then he hears another scream, So well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's real after all, he decided. So he gets up.

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Speaker 1: You get to revolver out and he left his cabin.

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Speaker 1: So monkst cabin opened directly onto what's the main the

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Speaker 1: main cabin, and from the main cabin, it's like the

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Speaker 1: chart room leads off there, the captain's stateroom leads off

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Speaker 1: of there, the pantry. It's literally just in the middle

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Speaker 1: of all in the middle of a bunch of other small,

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Speaker 1: big open room in the middle everything opens on to it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's he goes into the main cabin and then he

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Speaker 1: goes aft to the chart room where the captain was

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Speaker 1: sleeping or what the captain had been sleeping, because the

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Speaker 1: captain you're using body terms maybe, yeah, aft, I mean

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Speaker 1: he went back towards the rear of the boat of

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Speaker 1: the ship. Yeah, okay, And when he got there, it

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Speaker 1: was kind of dark, but he saw that the captain's

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Speaker 1: cot had been knocked over, and then he heard gurgling

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Speaker 1: noises and he approached the captain and saw him in

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Speaker 1: the darkness. He couldn't make him out too closely, but

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Speaker 1: the captain went again, as I said, was making these

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Speaker 1: weird gurgling noises and nothing else. And then he reached

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Speaker 1: out to touch him and his aunt came away with

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Speaker 1: blood all over it. So he has seen something really

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Speaker 1: bad had happened. He'd fallen out of his cotton, gotten

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Speaker 1: a bloody nose, yeah or yeah, or bloody everything. Uh

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Speaker 1: So what he said he did then is he went

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Speaker 1: out or not to have went forward to Laura Nash's

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Speaker 1: cabin because, as he said, Larry wanted to get her

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Speaker 1: help with Captain Nash because he thought something had happened. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like he had a bloody nose. He had a bloody

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Speaker 1: nose or something, and he's laying there gurgling. So so

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Speaker 1: he runs to get her, and he at this point

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Speaker 1: did not realize what had happened. But I'll tell you.

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Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and clear you guys in the captain

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Speaker 1: got hacked up with an ax Ax murder hit in

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Speaker 1: the head I think six or seven. Yeah, yeah, pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty nasty gashes. But when Lester Monks gets to Laura's cabin,

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Speaker 1: I finds out, well, she's been murdered too, and her

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Speaker 1: arms for U C S I types had defensive wounds,

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Speaker 1: so she had gouges and slashes in her in her forearms,

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Speaker 1: in her hands. But she didn't help her much. She

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Speaker 1: got killed anyway. And I don't think he checked your pulse.

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Speaker 1: He just wanted head and went forward, you know. Apparently

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Speaker 1: she was just obviously dead, and then sometimes I happened. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So he goes out the forward passageway and up a

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Speaker 1: ladder to the deck when he sees Charles Bram on deck.

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Speaker 1: Charles Brown first mate, calls out to him, and but

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Speaker 1: it turns out he's also got his gun with him

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Speaker 1: and he's pointing at Bram, which made Bram a little nervous. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: grabs a piece of wood and throws it at him,

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Speaker 1: but he actually missed it anyway, Then Lester realized what

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Speaker 1: he was doing, and then so then stop pointing. He's

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Speaker 1: got at Bram. But then he says the cat has

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Speaker 1: been murdered, and he told Bram, you've got to come

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Speaker 1: blow and see. And then, according to Monks, Bram said no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: Although I'm not exactly sure how he said that. All

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Speaker 1: this stuff get is kind of subjective, and it comes

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Speaker 1: back to hot Bram's later on because he becomes the

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Speaker 1: main suspect. All of these statements could be said in

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Speaker 1: a multitude of ways to implicate guilt or not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how how how does him saying no, no, no, like

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Speaker 1: if he sees the bodies and he goes, no, no no,

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Speaker 1: you know, like like you know, people do somethings. You

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Speaker 1: just kind of mutter something under your breath when you're

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Speaker 1: in a stressful situation. Or he could be the overly

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Speaker 1: dramatic no no no, just like he's acting super over

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Speaker 1: acting because some of the stuff he says. I looked,

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Speaker 1: I was like, he is such a bad actor. I

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Speaker 1: thought maybe he is just really pooping his pants. Yeah, maybe,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't really know, and maybe some people

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Speaker 1: have exaggerated a few things that he said too. I

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Speaker 1: think what he said no, no, no, but he really

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Speaker 1: meant was he it was dismayed because he had gone

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Speaker 1: down the captain's stateroom with an axe to get a souvenir.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to captain's ear, and he screwed up, didn't

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Speaker 1: get it in time. Yeah, I screwed up. Yeah, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so say no, no, no, that's talked into going below

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Speaker 1: to actually go after the chart room. Why the lamp,

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Speaker 1: and well here's a captain who is still not quite dead,

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Speaker 1: still dying. Uh. And then, according to Lester Monks, Braham

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Speaker 1: just stood there and said nothing and did nothing to

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Speaker 1: help Captain Nash. Yeah, but it doesn't really sound like

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Speaker 1: monst at anything. He kind of just stood there and

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Speaker 1: they were like, well, dude, I can't do anything. I'm

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Speaker 1: holding the lamp. You've got helping No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I have the revolver, I have the gun. Let's get

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Speaker 1: his wife. She can deal with it. I guess, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's fairness to both of them. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: there really wasn't anything they could do. He was kind

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Speaker 1: of a goner. Yeah, although I'm I've been watched this

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Speaker 1: has been like an ongoing discussion in my house because,

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Speaker 1: as you guys know, I'm I've been like kind of

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Speaker 1: progressively pursuing more and more first aid training, right, and um,

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Speaker 1: my significant other who I live with, has has no certification.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't a boy scout, and like that's the last

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Speaker 1: time he took it, and so he now knows everything

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Speaker 1: he needs to notice survive in the actually teach you everything. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's this ongoing conversation of like I'm always like why

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Speaker 1: are more people trained? And why aren't why don't more

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Speaker 1: people get involved? You know, we drive past a car

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Speaker 1: accident and I'm like, oh my god, is someone hurt?

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Speaker 1: Like we need to stop in make sure, And he's

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Speaker 1: like no, there's like twenty people there, and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: and I think that happens a lot in these situations

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Speaker 1: where people just kind of are like I don't know

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Speaker 1: what to do. I'm going to make it worse. I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna stand here and I don't know, Like I

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Speaker 1: don't know what to do, especially at where first aid

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Speaker 1: was but existed, right, which is probably why Monks was like, well, obviously,

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Speaker 1: like the first mate is going to know how to

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Speaker 1: help this guy, right, He's going to know how to

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Speaker 1: help him, not necessarily, and you know, and it's probably

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Speaker 1: just you know, both of them standing there thinking the

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Speaker 1: other guy's going to do something because they know, but

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Speaker 1: you know, neither of them did. I don't necessarily think

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Speaker 1: it's suspicious, but it wasn't great, not suspicious. But you know,

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Speaker 1: back in those days, you probably only make things worse.

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Speaker 1: But even touching him, we'd probably give him infection just

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Speaker 1: by touching him. So yeah, just leave alone. Yeah, sorry,

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Speaker 1: that was a long tangent to get to my bed.

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Speaker 1: That's okay, okay O. Our guys after standing over the

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Speaker 1: captain for for a moment or two, they go back

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Speaker 1: up on deck and then they're sort of wondering what

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Speaker 1: to you. Monks Lester Monks suggested they wake up the

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Speaker 1: second mate, Blomberg. It was interesting to go back up

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Speaker 1: on deck. I would have thought they would have had

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Speaker 1: to go past the door to his stateroom. Anyway, Well,

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Speaker 1: there's two there's two ways to egg. I could have

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Speaker 1: gone aft, yeah, but I'm not sure that they want

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Speaker 1: aff they went aft, that would have taken past the

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Speaker 1: steering wheel where the steering station where Charlie Brown was,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't they have gone out into the little hall area.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, yeah, that little that little corridor leaves

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Speaker 1: forward forward past of the second mate's cabin. Yeah, I know,

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Speaker 1: the opposite way. But now I'm realizing that that actually

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Speaker 1: also ducks out to the columns. So I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: they went forward. Well anyway, you know, details um and

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Speaker 1: then Bran supposedly told Monks that he thought there was

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Speaker 1: a mute and you going on and uh and and

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Speaker 1: he believed that second mate Blomberg was forward with the

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Speaker 1: rest of the crew plodding with them. And Bram said

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Speaker 1: that he was afraid the crew was going to murder

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Speaker 1: him because apparently he said he'd been really art on

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Speaker 1: them and he thought they would be looking for a

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Speaker 1: little payback. But he's a little paranoidn't But weren't Monks

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Speaker 1: and and Bram's or Bram forward, They would have been

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Speaker 1: about a midships I think they were on deck midship.

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Speaker 1: They on deck about midship, and they couldn't see. It

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Speaker 1: was too dark. It was dark, and it was it

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Speaker 1: was dark, and there's a there's a cabin up towards

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Speaker 1: about that. The people could have been behind, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know but apparently and this is this boat.

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Speaker 1: The ship I guess was about two feet long, so

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Speaker 1: it's pretty big. Okay, decent side, We've got a paranoid

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Speaker 1: first meet, very paranoid and murdered captain and wife. Captain

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Speaker 1: and wife and nobody knows what the second mate is

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Speaker 1: not yet but we'll find out right now after this

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Speaker 1: commercial break. Just kidding. Uh. Bram and Monks basically sat

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Speaker 1: on the deck for the rest of the night. They

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Speaker 1: and in a situation like that, when you've just seen

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Speaker 1: a couple of people that have been hacked to death

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Speaker 1: with an axe, I think sitting back to back on

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Speaker 1: the deck with your you know, your your guard up,

390
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Speaker 1: it's not a bad idea, it would agree, especially since

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Speaker 1: you watched one of them die. But it's not like you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they walked in on one really horrific scene

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Speaker 1: and then watched out to the last last of his life.

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Speaker 1: I would probably sit up to Yeah, I think so. Uh.

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Speaker 1: After the sun came out, though, they decided to get

396
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Speaker 1: the ship. Stuart Spencer, who apparently fairly experienced sailor chep guy.

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Speaker 1: Spencer goes after check on the captain and turns out

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Speaker 1: the captain is dead. And he's been chopped seven eight

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Speaker 1: times in the head with an axe. Was Spencer the

400
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Speaker 1: only one who had also traveled with the captain before, Yeah, exactly.

401
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Speaker 1: And he also checked on Blomberg's cabin and the second mate, Blomberg,

402
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Speaker 1: And it turns out Blomberg was dead too, So they've

403
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Speaker 1: got three corpses now up as well. Yeah, so three

404
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Speaker 1: dead people. And as you can naturally imagine, this began

405
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Speaker 1: kind of a long strained period for everybody on the

406
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Speaker 1: on the ship because they're frankly in the middle of

407
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Speaker 1: the Atlantic, they're far there, days and days sail away

408
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Speaker 1: from anywhere, and they've got an axe murderer on board. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well I was already killed. I mean, yeah, it's a

410
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Speaker 1: third of their Yeah, it's a good one. This is

411
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Speaker 1: a totally like kind of a well, I won't say it,

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Speaker 1: I'll say it later. Everybody was basically eyeing everybody else,

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Speaker 1: and I would be I wouldn't turn my back on anybody.

414
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Speaker 1: But one thing that everybody sort of agreed on afterwards

415
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Speaker 1: was that nobody was covered in blood, and they were

416
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 1: all looking each other over for blood, probably pretty carefully,

417
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Speaker 1: so that we can deduce from that the killer must

418
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Speaker 1: have changed his clothes and washed up, unless, of course,

419
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Speaker 1: the killer was somebody else, if it was like Russian

420
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Speaker 1: frogman who came over the side of murder, or if

421
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: it was like the kraken, you know, or something like

422
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: that French yeah, or the French. Yeah. Yeah, that's a

423
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: good point. It's a good point. Could have been stowaway.

424
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: But anyway, whoever it was, I assume it was one

425
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 1: of them, and he had he had clever fellow that

426
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: he was, changed his clothes and washed it, washed himself up, looked,

427
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 1: looked in the mirror and said, oh, this looks suspicious. Yeah. Yeah.

428
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 1: You can't just change your clothes and you can have

429
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 1: spatter all over your friends in your hand. Although that

430
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,719
Speaker 1: does seem like that, would you know cleaning up right,

431
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,919
Speaker 1: isn't this This is the period where it's just kind

432
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 1: of like you've got a basin of water and in

433
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: your room and that would be pretty hard to clean up,

434
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: it would be, and then you'd have to get rid

435
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 1: of the basin of water and then refill it so

436
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't also look suspicious. That's a lot of yeah,

437
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: not just like hopping in the shower. No, it wouldn't

438
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: be a quick down and dirty thing. I wouldn't think,

439
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, whoever did it must have done it quick.

440
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 1: But and that that was around that time, and of

441
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: course Brams started acting strange. Um for one thing, they

442
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: were looking around for the bloody murder weapon and they

443
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: found it. They found an act with blood and gore

444
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: on it, you know, and and pieces of hair and

445
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: everything else where they find it. They found it on deck,

446
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: just sitting on the deck. Yeah. It was like, I

447
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: wasn't like like right in the middle where everybody could

448
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: see it, but it was it was laying on deck somewhere.

449
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly did you ever find that precisely where

450
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: it Wasn't it just like it wasn't a squirreled away

451
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: in like a bucket of flower or something right now,

452
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 1: it was somewhere. It's probably next to the rail on something.

453
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: And also it wasn't thrown overboard on the night of

454
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 1: the murder. Now whether it was thrown over the next day,

455
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 1: but by the b or I actually said it could

456
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: it could actually have been Bram. I'm calling him Bram.

457
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: That's doing him. Yeah. Yeah, with a name like Bram,

458
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 1: he must be a killer. But but yeah, they did

459
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: find the acts he found. He picks up this is it,

460
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 1: This must be the murder weapon. I'm going to get

461
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 1: rid of it, and he throws it. Should I get

462
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 1: rid Should I get rid of And again this is

463
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: one of those those things where you could interpret it

464
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: in multiple woice. It's, you know, should I get rid

465
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: of it? Or should I get I mean, it's it

466
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: just he does all this weird stuff. He's such a screwball. Well,

467
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 1: I mean, they gotta remember this too. I mean, I

468
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: mean fingerprints. Fingerprinting wasn't really a thing, and there was

469
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: nothing to link him. It wouldn't have been any sort

470
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: of smoking gun that would have linked it to the murder.

471
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: But a lot of people have said that, you know,

472
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: that's another incriminating piece of evidence against him. Yeah, and

473
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's so it's worth reiterating. Right, He

474
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: coast should I get rid of this? And then throws

475
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: it over. I mean, I agree. I don't think it

476
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: was particularly strong evidence against him. I mean, probably be

477
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 1: very little linking. But anybody recorded statements immediately after that,

478
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: he said a pederal skip three times. Okay, But here's

479
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: here's the really dumb thing about chucking the axe overboard

480
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: is ships at this time, in this era, there were

481
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: axes all over the place. I mean, it was a

482
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: common tool because that's he fixed the ship and fixed

483
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: rigging and cut rigging. It got rid of stuff. So

484
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: it's not like that was the only ax around. So

485
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: I seen it some of the writing that he threw

486
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: the acts away so that the killer couldn't get the

487
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: rest of them. I guess I would have thought more

488
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: it was like a superstitious thing in the same way

489
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: that like, you know, if the murder weapon is still there,

490
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: the ghost of the murder murdered people are going to

491
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: come and haunt. In other cases, resulves similarly, Like I know,

492
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: we're about to talk about the fact that he tried

493
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: to throw the bodies overboard. Yeah, well he suggested that

494
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: he didn't actually physically try, No, I know, but yeah,

495
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: and even then, I think, you know, to me, that

496
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: kind of speaks of somebody who's like super superstitious and

497
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: sailors back in those days, yeah, for superstition, Yeah, yeah,

498
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: And so you know, it could have been as simple

499
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: as the ghosts of these humans are going to come

500
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: haunt us if we don't just get rid of all

501
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: this stuff. That could have been it, or it could

502
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: have just been like you know, sailors are all about

503
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: well this means bad luck, that means bad Yeah, I

504
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: mean if it was sailors, I mean, how do they

505
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: get to a day because so many things for the

506
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: sailors mean bad luck. Well, I mean one of them

507
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: is a woman on board usually, so I actually wondered

508
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: about that. I mean, we are are a bit farther

509
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: in time where it's not such a hard and fast rule.

510
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: But still you gotta wonder if there wasn't chatter on

511
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: the boat. I'm sure there was. And actually another superstition

512
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: apparently that I've heard anyway, was that leaving port on

513
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: a friday is also bad luck. And they left on

514
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: a friday. They left on the third of July, which

515
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: means they didn't get to see the fireworks the next day.

516
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: That's good. That was a really dumb move, that's the thing.

517
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 1: But so okay, so I kind of boiled this. But

518
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: he then tries to throw the bodies overboard, right, uh yeah,

519
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: After the entire crew had been assembled and informed of

520
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: what had happened, and they go, well, what do we

521
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: do next? And the first thing he says, well, let's

522
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: let's throw the bodies ever board, and yeah, and that's

523
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: cleaned up this mess. And actually that's not a totally

524
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: dumb thing, because when your days out and bodies are dangerous, Oh,

525
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: they're not just gonna get gross, They're gonna get dangerous.

526
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah there, I mean all of their fluids

527
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: and everything all around. I mean similarly with the ax, right,

528
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: that's going to get dangerous more than just it being

529
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: a weapon. Yeah, the act could be washed off though,

530
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: at least you could. But if you've got more, why

531
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: not just why not just pitch it? Yeah, because I

532
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: mean it could be washed off, but probably not really

533
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: to like a medical satisfaction. So that was probably not

534
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: the concern. They didn't know. It's not the worst idea

535
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: to toss these things overboard, these things, the bodies would

536
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: be I would be saying, to pitch them. I don't

537
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: like having dead bodies around personally, get rid of them. Yeah.

538
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: And Henry Slice, I think, was the guy who pointed

539
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: this out, that the bodies were evidence, and Bram also

540
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: thought that they should clean up the huge bloody mass

541
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: below decks and which is you know again, I could

542
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: sort of see that maybe it was a knee freak.

543
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: But Slice also felt that they leend up shouldn't happen

544
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: because that's evidence down there. And so they put the

545
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: bodies into the ship's jolly boat. Jolly boat being the

546
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: ship's tender. You know, it's that small little dinghy that

547
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: you know exactly. Yeah, So they had the jolly but

548
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: just in this case, it was hanging on the side

549
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: of the ship, I think on the starboard side about

550
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: the midships, and so they put the bodies in there. Well,

551
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 1: they just sort of like you know, festered. Yeah, then

552
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: they had to decide and had to decide where to

553
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: go because again they're in the middle of nowhere. Bram

554
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: suggested again another strike against him. He said they should

555
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: continue on to South America to French Guiana, which is

556
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 1: kind of like where that direction they were heading. That

557
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: was about fift hundred miles away. And again, as I

558
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: said before, they were about four hundred miles south of Bermuda.

559
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: Uh so that puts them about eleven hundred miles from

560
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: Boston where they sailed out of, and about eleven hundred

561
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: miles from Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. Yeah, and so apparently

562
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: the crew decided to head straight in north to Newfoundland

563
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: and Nova Scotia. And don't understand that that is so

564
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: strange to me that you just do it about face

565
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: and go almost all the way back home instead of

566
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: just hanging a right hand turn and go into a

567
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: place he said, super close. Yeah, I was wondering about

568
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: that too, at the very at least, you know, if

569
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: they were going to go back north, the winds were

570
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: favorable for going north. But Boston, the city that came

571
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: from it was also was about the same distance and

572
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: and also pretty much north, you know, so the winds

573
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: are you know, I don't know why they didn't shoot

574
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: for Boston. I don't get that, or, like you said,

575
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: why not shoot for somewhere further south on the east coast.

576
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: The more I think about this, the more I bet

577
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: that the captain and the second mate were the only

578
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: ones who knew how to navigate well, because suddenly I

579
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: just I was like, I just suddenly wonder, wait, we're

580
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: just going to head north and we'll find one of

581
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: those places eventually. We know that into something. Yeah, I

582
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: don't know. I I agree. I think it's weird that

583
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: they didn't just like go to Boston. Isn't as weird

584
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: that they didn't just hanger right and go for land

585
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: just because you don't. You know, this is kind of

586
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: a time where you you're probably not totally certain about

587
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: the government or the settlements that you might six. I mean,

588
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: if you if if they had turned and gone like

589
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: not do west, probably not, you don't. But if they

590
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: had gone like northwest, then they would have hit like,

591
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: well whatever, Carolina. Yeah, I mean, if that's true. Yeah,

592
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,959
Speaker 1: they weren't that far south, yeah, yeah, yeah, And so

593
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I just you know, mostly I think you wouldn't.

594
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: You wouldn't want to be landing necessarily on like you know,

595
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: the Bahamas or like some kind of k in Berma, Dominica,

596
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: Dominican republics, not necessarily at that time the place, but yeah,

597
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: Florida or the Carolinas or I mean, all of those things.

598
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: You're probably right. Probably nobody else knew him. Yeah, I mean,

599
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that Braham knew we're pointing in the right direction.

600
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: If we just keep going, we'll hit South America and

601
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: we can finish this trip. So it's about it's a

602
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: pretty big strike against him that he said, let's go

603
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: this really far place away. Well, what the the prosecution

604
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: said later at his trial, was that, well, of course

605
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: he wanted to go sail on because his plan, his secret,

606
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: covert plan, was to disappeared. Yeah, what his plan was

607
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: to murder everybody else on the ships as they sailed south,

608
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: and then he could just sell the cargo in the

609
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: ship and just disappear whatever. Although again, if you're bad

610
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: in a crisis, I guess you can kind of I

611
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: could a little bit get into his head and think, yeah,

612
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: let's keep going south towards our destination because we have

613
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: all this cargo and it's going to be big trouble

614
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: if we don't arrive with this cargo one time. So

615
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: we'll just go that way and we're just good, you know,

616
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: like just keep going that way. I don't think it's

617
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: a good thought process, but I can a little bit

618
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: get it if that was his thought process, But I

619
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: don't think it was. Yeah, I don't know that. The

620
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: whole thing is just this is a weird little story,

621
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, Bram was not the only one

622
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: who acted oddly. I think not at all. He's just

623
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: got the most attention. Yeah he did. He did. What's

624
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: what's another strike against him? He came up with a

625
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: theory about the murders. Yeah, he's a great armchair detective

626
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: and now I know. But so he said, he told

627
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: he told us to monks, have the lester monks. He

628
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: said that Blomberg, the second mate had that was this

629
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: was this theory. I tried to rape Mrs Nash, who screamed,

630
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: which caused Captain Nash to come running to save the days.

631
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: Blomberg murdered both of them with an axe, but in

632
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: the fight what he was mortally wounded himself and then

633
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: he crawled back to his cabin before he expired. So

634
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: that was that was supposedly Brahm's theory about the murder.

635
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: So why wasn't the captain in the same room as

636
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: his wife, Well, he crawled off to the chart room

637
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: to die. Yeah, they all crawled out to their respective rooms,

638
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: and that's why there was that really giant trail of blood,

639
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: right exactly, except well, now he crawled to his state room.

640
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: He got some of you got some like rags and

641
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: came back and cleaned up the and then and cleaned

642
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: up behind him. Yeah exactly. Yeah, obviously it's it's an absurd,

643
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: absurd theory. But uh, you know who knows maybe he

644
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: had been drinking. But actually, but that was considered strike

645
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: against him because it looked like he was trying to

646
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: shift the blame onto Blomberg, who couldn't who was dead

647
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: and couldn't defend his name. Although I should also be

648
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: noted that a lot of this stuff came from Lester Monks,

649
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: who wrote a lot of this stuff down. So there's

650
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: I guess that's one thing that people should take into consideration.

651
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: He who writes history can shape it however he wants. Yeah,

652
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's it could be that he

653
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: was the one who did it all and then he

654
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: just wrote the accounts down however he wanted them to be,

655
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: so he was a completely innocent guy. You never Now

656
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: I've sort of wondered about old Lester monks, but we'll

657
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: talk about that in the theories. Yeah, but also, and

658
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: I said, as I said, he wrote it down, and

659
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: then Monks also claimed that Bram suggests at one point

660
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: that they should tear up his account that he had

661
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: written down. Well yeah, and uh, and Monks refused to

662
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: do that. So that doesn't look good for Bram. If

663
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: if he actually said that, and probably he read what

664
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: was being written about unless Monks was totally misrepresenting it

665
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: and he was like, that's total bunk. What are you doing.

666
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: Maybe he read it thought yeah, that he could read,

667
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: and thought it was like yeah, like I say, dishonest.

668
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: But still at this time, nobody was totally sure who

669
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: was guilty of the murders, so it was a paranoid time.

670
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: It took him six days to make landfall, and nobody

671
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: wanted to go below decks, especially alone, so everybody was

672
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: sleeping on deck and just spending all their time on deck.

673
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: Surprise surprise, which turned had to be even less fun

674
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: than you would think because it was this bad smell

675
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: coming out of the jolly boat. Yeah yeah, this random,

676
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: weird yeah, I mean, totally mysterious smell. It was causing that.

677
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 1: I wonder. Yeah, finally somebody had this bright idea to

678
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: lower the boat and tow it behind the ship. It

679
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: was probably a lifesaver because this is July, it's even

680
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: in the mid Atlantic, it's going to be warm, if

681
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: not hot. I could imagine those bodies were pretty ripe. Uh.

682
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: What else happened during this time, Well, Charlie Brown got busted.

683
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: Remember him, the Swedish guy who was named Charlie Brown

684
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,959
Speaker 1: for one reason that nobody knows. Yeah, that's yeah. He yeah,

685
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 1: he was caught throwing a pair of bloody pants over

686
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: the rail, to which he said, oh brother, yeah, Charlie.

687
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: Charlie got tossed into menacles and locked into a cabin

688
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 1: because he was now the prime suspect, although he claimed

689
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: that he had just gotten the bloody from dragging the

690
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: bodies up from below decks and put him in the

691
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: jolly boat, which is entirely possible. Yeah, if he was

692
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: one of the people who helped with that, yeah, and

693
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, but throwing them overboard, that looks guilty as hell.

694
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: But then after Charlie was locked up in his cabin

695
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: for a little while, he finally he revealed that he

696
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: had seen something on the night of the murders. Remember

697
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: he was steering the boat and there was that little,

698
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: that little small window into the chart room. Well, he

699
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: said that when he was steering the ship during those

700
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: wee hours of the morning, he saw the murders taking place.

701
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: He suddenly remembered, he suddenly remembered that he saw the conveniently,

702
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: I know, he saw that he saw Bram murdering the captain.

703
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: He said, he also heard Mrs Nash scream. Uh. And

704
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: then he said that he Bram come up on deck

705
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: afterwards carrying something which was probably an axe, but it

706
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: was dark as we couldn't tell for share. So that

707
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: was his story. Uh. And so the crew grabbed Bram

708
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: and they changed it to a mast, and apparently he

709
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: stayed there until the ship got to Halifax Nova Scotia.

710
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: That was on July one, So I don't know. Yeah,

711
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: well I'm not sure they changed into the mask on

712
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: July like fourteen or something. Oh yeah, I was just

713
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: talking without the duration of oh yeah, yeah, the whole yeah,

714
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: the dead body thing. Yeah, so you know, it sounds

715
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: like Bram spent at least a few days last to

716
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: the mast, maybe several could. Yeah, it must have been

717
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: a great time. Yeah, And I think somebody wrote a

718
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: book about this, actually, I think that, you know. And uh,

719
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: but in that book actually played a small role. It

720
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: was sort of a novelized Yeah, it was totally a

721
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: fictionalized version. Yeah, but it did play a role later on,

722
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: a slight role which I will mention. But when they

723
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: got to Nova Scotia, the entire crew was arrested and

724
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: locked up. So the police could sort of sort things out.

725
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: Step back to the U. S. Well, I was gonna

726
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: say they were all locked up because the US, because

727
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: it was a U. S ship, had to do the investigation.

728
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: And so, you know, the Nova Scotia was like, we're

729
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: not even going to scare around with this. You're all

730
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: getting an irons. Yeah, that doesn't happen anymore. No, never, No,

731
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: I mean literally, the the US doesn't tend to investigate

732
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 1: things that happened on ships that are Yeah, we saw

733
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: that with the Rebecca Korem. Yeah, that's why the the

734
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: US wasn't all that interested in high seas. That's why

735
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: I do all my murdering in the high seas. Where

736
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: we are we though, back in the U. S. Air,

737
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: of course intensely investigated by the police, and the detective

738
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: sat Bram down. Of course he was a prime suspect

739
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: because of what Charlie Brown had said about seeing him

740
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: murder the captain. So the police sets him down and

741
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: says to him, well, Charlie Brown has testified he saw

742
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: you murder the captain in the chart room to that

743
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 1: window from the steering station, to which Bramp said, quote,

744
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: he couldn't have seen me. Where was he unquote what

745
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: was taken as a slip of the tongue. It's kind

746
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: of like saying, well, you could not have seen me

747
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: killing the captain in my red coat because I was

748
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: wearing my black coat. Yeah, he's wrong, but I don't know.

749
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: That's so that was taken as an incriminating statement, Like

750
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: he was saying he could not have seen me killing

751
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: the captain because I was careful to be out of

752
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: sight when I did it. And he could have also

753
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 1: been saying he couldn't have seen me because I didn't

754
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: do it well that or you know, there's the whole

755
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: statement that he saw him walking out of the cabin

756
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: area on deck, and you know, he might have have

757
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: gone not forward where the wheel was he but he

758
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 1: might have headed towards the rear of this ship from

759
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: his own cabin because his because his room is actually

760
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: directly across from the second mates, so he could have

761
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: popped out the back entrance unawares of what had happened.

762
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: And he's like, how could he have seen me? I

763
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: was on the other side of the of that entire area,

764
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:57,919
Speaker 1: Like that could be what he was trying to say.

765
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: It could have been. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say,

766
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: but it's certainly not an incriminating thing. But all of

767
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: the various actions and statements from Bram we're put in

768
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: front of a jury by the prosecution. These included well,

769
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: of course, as I mentioned, he found a murder weapon

770
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: threw it overboard. He had tried to pen to blame

771
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: on Blomberg with his murder theory. He later tried to

772
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: blame Charlie Brown. He did have bloody pants, the blady pants. Yeah.

773
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: He also supposedly asked monks to destroy his written account

774
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: because it put him in an unfavorable light. Yeah, and

775
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: that Spencer the Stewart testified that Bram had railed about

776
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: Captain Nash and second Might Blomberg earlier in the voyage,

777
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: and that he also said something in the effect that

778
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 1: he wanted to have sex with Mrs Nash. Does that

779
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: sound at all out of character of what you would

780
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: expect to come out of the mouth of a grumpy

781
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: sailor that day and age? I hate that guy, I

782
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 1: hate that guy. I want to sleep with that lady. Yeah,

783
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: this is this is not sound unusual. I I wouldn't

784
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: not expect that. Let's not forget what the paper said

785
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: about Mrs Nash who was well endowed, so I'm sure

786
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: that he was not the only one on the ship. Really,

787
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: it's gotta be kind of a weird thing to be

788
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: the captain and know that every single guy in the

789
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,439
Speaker 1: crew was just lusting after your wife. Yeah, weird. Well

790
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: that's a power dynamic, I would say. Yeah. Yeah, I

791
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 1: mean it's not like he didn't expect that. Yeah, they

792
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: were getting into Yeah, I had to have known about it.

793
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: Maybe he enjoyed it. It's like, ha ha, I can't

794
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: have it. Yeah, Well, anyway, when you were on your

795
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: cruise ship, you were the only woman, right, Okay, never

796
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: mind what else the prosecution, as I said, they've made

797
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: the point that he wanted that longer trip to Prince

798
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: Guiana so he could murder everybody and so the body's

799
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: overboard and stuff, which is kind of amazing theory because

800
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: there's no evidence of that. Maybe he didn't tend to

801
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 1: do that, but I think the prosecution had a little

802
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: more a little more flexibility in those things to put forward,

803
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, ludicrous theories. But they also brought up some

804
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: older acquintances. Come the prosecution never does that, they never,

805
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: they never, or now they still do it. Yeah, well

806
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: there was no forensic files to come in later and

807
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: prove the case. Yeah, I think that the I think

808
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: they were a little work careless back in those days,

809
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: although there's still plenty of that going on today. They

810
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: played a little fast and loose. They also found some

811
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: older They really dug up all the dirt they could

812
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: find on him, And they found a guy who had

813
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: sailed with Bram on a ship called the White Wings,

814
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: who said that Bram had told him or suggested to him,

815
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 1: that they should kill the captain, take the ship, sell

816
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: the ship and the cargo. Apparently he told the same sailor.

817
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: I think this guy's name was Nicholas Alstill, the same guy,

818
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: that he had been a wardership called the Twilight, and

819
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 1: he had scuttled the ship, he delivered the cargo, collected

820
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: the money, scuttled the ship, and then told the owners

821
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: that well, I'm sorry the money went down with the ship.

822
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 1: It was all I could do to get to the lifeboats. Sorry, sorry, dudes,

823
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 1: but he kept them. They confessed this to this Nicholas guy.

824
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: Leaves me to think that Bram had a big mouth.

825
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: They had other witnesses. I won't list him all. Well,

826
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 1: I mean, it's It's obviously he wasn't afraid to just

827
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: talk in front of other people, based on the statements

828
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: he made about the captain in the second mate and

829
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: the captain's wife story. Yeah, I don't know. He might

830
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: have said. He might have said I want to kill

831
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: and then the name of all every other guy on

832
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: the crew came out of his mouth. I mean, there's

833
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: some people who just want around going, oh, I'm just

834
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: gonna kill that guy because they're frustrated with him, simple

835
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: as that doesn't necessarily mean no, no, yeah, I never

836
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: do that at all. But again, I wasn't there. I

837
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: didn't wasn't I could not observe his demeanor or that

838
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: he might have been a really really he might have

839
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: been a real scumbag, which still doesn't mean he did it,

840
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: but at least it makes it a little more incredible.

841
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell. The only thing I know about

842
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: Bram is what I've read about him a little bit,

843
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: and I've seen one photograph of him. He looks like, well, right,

844
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: he doesn't look like a scumbag. Have you seen the

845
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: drawing of him? Now? Oh, it's hilarious because it looks

846
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: nothing like his photo. It was like a newspaper thing

847
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: for the trial. Yeah, because in his photo he's got

848
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 1: a hairline similar to mine, you know, it's very high,

849
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,959
Speaker 1: and he's got the bald spot in the back and

850
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: no facial hair or um. And then you see the

851
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: drawing of him and he's got what looks like a

852
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: full quoff of hair and the mustache, the big mustache

853
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: of the time, and for something like that's weird. Wait,

854
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: and I started comparing him. That's when I realized, like,

855
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: I really think that somebody Internet mislabeled something and it

856
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: has just been just spread everywhere. Oh yeah, that's never happened. Huh,

857
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: that's that's gotta be it. I guess even back in

858
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: those days, I didn't take that much artistic license. I

859
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: don't think usually. Yeah, but back to our trial. Uh,

860
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 1: they put him on trial later that year. They were

861
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 1: quick about things and let Charlie Brown go pretty quickly.

862
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: They kind of what did They can't think of the

863
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: terminology that the wording that they use, but essentially they

864
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: can sidered him a idiot um in terms of that

865
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: was you know, well, he's a little mentally unsound and

866
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: he's obviously not smart enough to pull this off, like

867
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: maybe we should take him to the sanitarium so he

868
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: didn't hurt himself. Kind of, he's too dumb to pull

869
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 1: this off on his own. Yeah yeah, And that's that's

870
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:20,879
Speaker 1: one of the ways I get away with murder by

871
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: the way I played dumb. Yeah, you're good at it.

872
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, good at murder. Yeah, alright, screw y'all. Needless

873
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 1: just say Bram was convicted of murder, because that's another

874
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 1: thing this happens today still is you know, their juries

875
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: are inclined to and there's been a heinous crime that

876
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: somebody's got to be guilty, somebody's gotta pay for. Unfortunately

877
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 1: that happened in this case, I think. But the trial

878
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: was set aside in the technicality, and so he got retried.

879
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: He was convicted again. And by the way, all the

880
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: first trial he was sentenced to hang and uh were

881
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: the good old gallows. Yeah yeah, he never actually did

882
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: get strung up. He's I think about fifteen years in prison.

883
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: And as I said, there was a woman who wrote

884
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: a book about this, which was apparently read by none

885
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: other than Teddy Roosevelt, remember him, Yeah, President guy, Yeah,

886
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: And and Teddy was not president at the time. But

887
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: apparently he was sort of sort of taken with the

888
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: case of Thomas Bram and took it up with President

889
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: Woodward Wilson and got Wilson to pardon him. So he

890
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 1: got a pardon from Wilson and got out of jail.

891
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: Or no, no, it would have been like, oh god,

892
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: I don't remember the year he actually got busted out

893
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: of jail, but oh six. Didn't Wilson get elected in

894
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: nineteen Uh no, I would have been even year. No,

895
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: he he was the president. He was office from March

896
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 1: fourth in eighteen thirteen to March fourth, nineteen one. Okay,

897
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: so he was elected in nineteen twelve. So so the

898
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: murders happened in ninety six, So we go, oh six

899
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: to eleven. Well, yeah, god, how long that's really well,

900
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: the time the years on this one don't add up

901
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: for the term he served. I guess his trial took

902
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: several years. Yeah, I said that in the fifteen years

903
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,240
Speaker 1: that I've read about it, they served in jail probably

904
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: included the time he spent in jail during and between

905
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: trials and all that stuff. They could have been the

906
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 1: whole accumulated, you know, time he spent behind bars. Well,

907
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, he's say some time. I mean, in fairness,

908
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: I don't know where he served, But Woodrow Wilson was

909
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: also the governor of New Jersey from nineteen eleven to

910
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: nineteen thirteen, and governors can part in. Wilson was president

911
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: when had happened, Yeah, it wasn't was president, I don't believe,

912
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: and that since the ships sailed out of Boston, I

913
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: don't think it would have had any jurisdiction. I just

914
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: didn't know where the trial was happening. I don't know

915
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: where any of that was happening. I think it was Boston. Yeah,

916
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: never mind, really went way off of the path all

917
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: about Woodward Wilson, which is pretty cool because nobody actually

918
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: ever talks about Woodrow Wilson anymore. Yeah, well people should

919
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: talk about Wilson. I'll tell you why and it. We'll

920
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: do that for another episode though. But as far as

921
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 1: Bram goes, you know, he may very well have been

922
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: the killer. I don't think the evidence was this positive

923
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: in my mind. But if it wasn't him, unless assume

924
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 1: for a second then it wasn't, well then who could

925
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,959
Speaker 1: have been time for some series maybe, but for nine

926
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 1: other people. Yeah, about that well, not nine. Let's nine

927
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: crew members in one passenger and one passengers. Yeah, well

928
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: the second mate second mate eight kind of sam makes

929
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: it seven. So seven? Okay, okay, yeah, anyway, but before

930
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: we get into our theories and our suspects, let's take

931
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: a Please tell me you're not going to show me

932
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: an ax. Yeah, good idea. I'll show you my hatchet compromise.

933
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: You stare down at the pile in front of you

934
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: and wonder what created this meat and vegetable application of

935
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: non Euclidean geometry. Somehow you're supposed to have known how

936
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: to pick out the best ones at the store, which

937
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: was mind boggling. Then you had to know the base

938
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: formula for combining them as well as the proper order.

939
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: How are you supposed to be able to do all this?

940
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: Looking at all that stuff? I think what you're doing

941
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: is less cooking and more alchemy. It doesn't have to

942
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,480
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943
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,800
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944
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,440
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945
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946
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,200
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947
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,840
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948
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949
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,560
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950
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,720
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951
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Speaker 1: sesame beef tacos the other night. They are phenomenal and

952
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954
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955
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:12,040
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956
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,240
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957
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 1: Get cooking. Stop alcoming, Okay, we're back after that fantastic commercial. Uh,

958
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about our suspects. So many good ones.

959
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: So we got, of course Bram, who was the guy

960
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: who actually got convicted, who really I suppose could have

961
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: done it. My only problem with Bram is a suspect,

962
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: is that well, so he murders that, he murders the

963
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: captain's wife, and of course then um Lester Monks wakes up.

964
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: Of course, it takes him a moment or two to

965
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: get his revolver and loaded and everything, and then he

966
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: leaves and go spice the captain and goes up to

967
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: the deck and finds Bram on deck. So, Ram, Ram,

968
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: if you if you did actually murdered the wife last,

969
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: if he murdered the wife last, then would he have

970
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: had enough time to change his clothes and clean himself up,

971
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 1: get all the blood off him and everything, and then

972
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: get up on deck and then for Lester Monks to

973
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 1: come up on deck to find him there? Would you

974
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: have had enough time? Do you think? Yeah? He may have.

975
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: I mean, because we don't know how much time Monks

976
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: actually spent with the captain when he first found him

977
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: and yeah, or how much he spent time he spent

978
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: with the captain's wife staring at her dead in the room. Usually,

979
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: if I'm in a room with a chopped up, mangled body,

980
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 1: I don't I don't carry Okay. So here's the thing, though,

981
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: I I don't think that for reasons. I know we're

982
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: going to talk about that Monks was moving all that

983
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 1: fast coherently, and so I could see this taking several minutes.

984
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,399
Speaker 1: And let's just think. Okay, so let's say Bram did

985
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: it and he's wearing a coat let's just say he's

986
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: got some kind of big overcoat smock thing on. So

987
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 1: he walks out on deck. There's a bucket of water

988
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: out there, so all he's gotta do is take off

989
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 1: his big jacket and scrub his hands in his face

990
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 1: in a random dirty water bucket that is outside. Yeah,

991
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: I suppose if he planned it really carefully. I mean,

992
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: they actually have extra canvas for patching sales and stuff

993
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: like that on a ship. So something. Here's a question

994
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: is if he made himself a jacket that he then

995
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 1: threw overboard, why didn't he also throw the axe overboard?

996
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: That's a good question. Maybe he screwed up. He could

997
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: have literally dropped it and when he because I think

998
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: he's the one who frowned the axe. He could have

999
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: very he could have had that internal monologue of oh crap,

1000
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: that didn't go over with my my killing jacket, I

1001
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 1: gotta get rid of this thing? Should I get rid

1002
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: of this? Oh? No, splitch. He could have been that.

1003
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: I don't think that's it. I think he's just too

1004
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: easy of a he's the pretty easy Yeah. It's a favorite.

1005
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: You know, you might even think of as a fall guy. Yeah,

1006
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: in a way, So Okay, Yeah, so Bran could have

1007
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: done it, um, you know, but let's look at a

1008
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 1: few other people. Of course, we've got Charlie Brown. Charlie Brown,

1009
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 1: he tells this really strange story about how he saw

1010
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: brand murder the captain but just you know, didn't think

1011
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: to tell anybody about it because then somebody pulled the

1012
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: football out from him and he fell. Yeah. So I

1013
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: mean his story is like and it could have just

1014
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: been like, well, you know, after he got locked in

1015
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: the cabin and he's the chief suspect, he wanted to

1016
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 1: shift the blame on anybody you possibly could. But still,

1017
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, he sees the captain being chopped

1018
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: to pieces, and then shortly after he hears the little

1019
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: captain's wife screaming, and he, just like Bob, keeps steering

1020
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: the boat. Got to make sure this boat doesn't thebergs around. Yeah,

1021
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: and so even and the stays at the station. But

1022
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: then after he gets off the station at two am,

1023
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,439
Speaker 1: he still doesn't go talk to anybody about it. Yeah, which,

1024
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: you know, what you never see anywhere is he may

1025
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: be telling the truth. He may have seen who did it,

1026
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: but he may have been their lookout, or he may

1027
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 1: have decided that he could extort a little cash out

1028
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: of him by threatening to tell. So he sees, let's

1029
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 1: just say it's it's Bram, or let's say it's Slice

1030
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: just because I like his name. So he sees, he

1031
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 1: sees Slice doing the slice and in the chopping, and says, oh,

1032
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say anything, And then later on, hey,

1033
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: Mr Slice, just so you know, I saw you. I

1034
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: saw you doing some slicing and it looks like Mr

1035
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: Bram there through the acts away, so I know you're

1036
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to use it on me. But

1037
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 1: when we keep mush ut mm hmmmmmmmmmmm that you you

1038
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: even said yourself that there were other ways to kill

1039
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: someone on that ship. I understand that. But he may

1040
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: have just you know what, people, people who commit who

1041
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 1: is commit black all the right way to say that,

1042
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 1: sure there's a crime. People who commit blackmail, they don't

1043
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: always I mean, people see people killing other people and

1044
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: try to get cash out of him for it, never

1045
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 1: worrying that that person is going to actually do the

1046
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 1: same thing to them. So he may have decided, oh, no,

1047
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: there's too much there's too much activity. He won't come

1048
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: after me. Yeah, it's true, maybe, but yeah, it's on

1049
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 1: TV all the time. Yeah, TV. But the thing the

1050
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: problem I have with the story too, though, is that

1051
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: from where the wheel was in the window and the

1052
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: captain's cop so the captain essentially his legs would have

1053
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: been pointed aft towards the stern of the boat in

1054
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 1: the front. Yeah, towards the stern. Yeah, so this is

1055
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 1: like I'm looking at it. Yeah, so this is like

1056
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: aft this way right, which is the front? Yeah, and

1057
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 1: uh no after four there's four and there's apts. So

1058
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: why is the wheel I thought the wheel would was

1059
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: in front of this entire cabin structure so that he

1060
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: could see. Now, typically they had the wheel towards the

1061
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: back because that's it's it's it's those to the rudder

1062
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 1: as possible. So and on sailor ships usually the wheel

1063
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: is in the back of the boat. Yeah. So so,

1064
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,760
Speaker 1: but anyway, the captain is from what the captain's legs

1065
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: would have been, and Andry Slice when he was steering earlier,

1066
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: he said he saw the captain's legs through the window,

1067
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: only his legs from the feet to the knees up

1068
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: because they were cut off. Yeah they were. Yeah, it

1069
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: could have been cut off or it could have been

1070
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: that from that angle his that's the only part of

1071
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,479
Speaker 1: you could see without actually leaving. Yeah, without actually leaving

1072
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: a station and moving to the right and down. Yeah. Yeah.

1073
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: From the station, all I could see was from the

1074
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: knee on down. And now I can't imagine if I

1075
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: was going to chop somebody who was sleeping laying down,

1076
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 1: I was gonna chopped up with an AX. And remember

1077
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: he was hit on the head. If you were going

1078
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: to approach somebody laying down to hit him on the

1079
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: head with an ax, would you go around to the end,

1080
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 1: to the end of where he's laying out where his

1081
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 1: feet are, and chopped from there, or would you stand

1082
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: next to him and chop In other words, you wouldn't

1083
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 1: be anywhere close to the bottom of his body. He

1084
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 1: would be standing next to his his head. Yeah and

1085
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: so and so, Bram, if he truly did this, he

1086
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: should have been out of sight Charlie Brown. And unless

1087
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: Charlie Brown was Brown window, unless he left his station

1088
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 1: and looked through that she could have because I mean,

1089
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 1: I guess an argument of it being Bram, it's you know,

1090
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: he said, well, how could he have seen me? Like?

1091
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: Where was he that he could have seen me, and

1092
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:26,320
Speaker 1: that would be the logical step of that guy was

1093
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: supposed to be at the wheel the entire time, and

1094
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: I know that if you're standing at the wheel, you

1095
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to see me chop chopping this

1096
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: guy's head open. Yeah, unless you weren't there. So where

1097
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: was he? What was he doing? Why did you see me?

1098
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 1: That makes sense. On the other hand, it's entirely possible

1099
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: that that, you know, Charlie Brown, for example, could have

1100
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 1: if he really saw him. It could have been he

1101
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 1: maybe tied the wheel off just for a moment or two,

1102
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: so you go over the rail and urinate. Yeah, he

1103
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: turned around and saw him, and then turned around saw

1104
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: what was going on in there. But but that makes

1105
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: it just as likely that Slice could have done it

1106
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: between the hours of eight and twelve. He could have

1107
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 1: killed the captain and the second mate because nobody else

1108
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,720
Speaker 1: was around, and he lashed the wheel and then later

1109
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 1: on decided he was going to take, you know, finish

1110
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: off the captain's wife. May I mean, yeah, he yes,

1111
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: his name is Slice after all. So yeah, but anyway,

1112
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: Charlie Brown, you were saying he was kind of like simple,

1113
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: I think one of the words that. Yeah, so even

1114
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: though his story really frankly doesn't add up for me

1115
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: at all. He might have just been trying to get

1116
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 1: himself out of trouble or ye know that that and

1117
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: more than one case has been entirely based upon the

1118
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: story of a unfit individual. Yeah, yeah, And and again

1119
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to say what anybody's motive would have been. Bram.

1120
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: I don't know what his motive exactly would have been.

1121
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: He apparently didn't like anybody on the crew, didn't seem

1122
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: to or at least didn't like the captain. It didn't

1123
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: like the second mate. But you know, there's lots of

1124
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 1: people I've done that I haven't liked that you know,

1125
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: haven't murdered them. So Charlie Brown, even you know, even

1126
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: less motive to kill somebody's. Let's move to our next suspect,

1127
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: who is Lester Monks. Yeah, because just what the hell

1128
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 1: was he doing there anyway? I mean, really though we

1129
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: know what he was doing there, But his doctor told

1130
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: him that he needed to go on this voyage to

1131
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: get sea air because because he was ill. But I mean,

1132
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: when they looked in his luggage, his luggage was nothing

1133
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: but booze. Sixty bottles of beer, a bottle of I

1134
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: think it was whiskey and jin or scotch. I mean,

1135
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: like the guy was packing a boatload of booze literally

1136
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: actually for a long sea journey. That's not a huge

1137
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: amount of But but what I'm getting at is the

1138
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: fact that I have a suspicion and that he had

1139
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: a drinking problem. And his doctor said, if you go

1140
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:07,959
Speaker 1: on a sea voyage, you can dry out. You have

1141
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 1: nowhere to go, you can't get the booze. But he

1142
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: went about it in such a way He's like, well,

1143
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: I'll just take my booze with me. I haven't. I

1144
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: can just I just spread it over the journey. It'll

1145
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 1: be fun. Yeah. But like here's a question, why this ship?

1146
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: Why not a ship that was made for passengers, Like

1147
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 1: why not book passage? He spent all his money on beer. Yeah.

1148
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 1: I think that if you get you can actually and

1149
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: there's people today even you travel on freighters because it's cheaper. Yeah,

1150
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: and yeah, you can actually travel all over the world

1151
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: on freighters. Maybe that I've actually considered it myself, I

1152
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: just haven't gotten around to doing it. He chose this one.

1153
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: He could have chosen any ship. But even me even

1154
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: more than that, like, I don't know that necessarily history

1155
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 1: ads up so well, it doesn't because I mean, here's

1156
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 1: Here's one of the things that's interesting to me is

1157
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: that he was in the passengers room, which is immediately

1158
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: after the captain's and where the where the captain's wife

1159
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: was murdered. It's between where the captain was murdered and

1160
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: the captain's wife was murdered exactly. And so he's he's

1161
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: awakened by a scream. He's a little disoriented, so he

1162
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: sits up, and then here's a second scream. So he

1163
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: exits the room with his revolver and into the main cabin,

1164
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 1: turns left towards the chart room, where the captain was.

1165
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: But if he heard that the captain's wife screaming in

1166
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: her stateroom, that's just on the other side of the

1167
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 1: bulkhead from his cabin, So he couldn't have been I

1168
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: don't think confused about the direction the scream was coming from.

1169
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 1: Why did he turn left towards where the captain was

1170
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: and not right towards where the captain's If he had

1171
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 1: a couple of drinks, his his sense of direction might

1172
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: have been a little fouled up. I know that, but

1173
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: that's something that puzzles me. And I mean, if he

1174
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: if he wanted to go to the chart room, is

1175
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: that what you're calling it? Joe said, correct, If he

1176
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 1: wanted to go to the chart room, why didn't he

1177
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: just go out the door of his room that led

1178
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: directly into the chart room instead of going into the

1179
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,800
Speaker 1: main could have been bolted? Well, that could have been.

1180
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: I mean, there might actually be there and then there

1181
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: is there is another door there. Yeah, it's it's true.

1182
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: The way the story was that I read about it

1183
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: might have been actually confusingly worded, and maybe he did

1184
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 1: exit directly into the chart room and not maybe it

1185
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: was bolted or it could have been bolted too. I

1186
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: don't know that if you if you were the captain

1187
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: and you had a chart room that opened directly into

1188
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 1: a passengers room, I don't know that you would necessarily

1189
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 1: want a door direct and I don't necessarily know as

1190
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: a passenger you would just want the captain to be

1191
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: able to walk into your room like whenever. Yeah. So yeah,

1192
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: it's like it's like those extra doors in hotel rooms

1193
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: and interconnected interconnect them. Yeah, yeah, they're usually locked. Usually yeah,

1194
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 1: locked solid. But it's still, you know, no matter how

1195
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: many doors they were there, I still have to wonder

1196
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 1: why he went the opposite direction from where the screams

1197
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 1: were coming, you know. And that's that's one of the things.

1198
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: And the next thing I wonder about, it's weird acoustics,

1199
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 1: possibly know. The other thing I'll say is that it

1200
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 1: is never as far as I know, maybe you guys

1201
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 1: do know. I didn't see it specified that it was

1202
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: a woman screaming. I thought he just heard screaming. And

1203
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: dudes scream too when they're getting hacked to crap for sure.

1204
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 1: But but still so it's possible to me that he

1205
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: did go in the direction the captain captain screaming. Yeah,

1206
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: that would actually make sense in terms he was still dying,

1207
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: captain was still dying yet the wife had obviously already expired.

1208
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: But but the next stort thing of the story that

1209
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: makes no sense to me is that he finds the

1210
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 1: captain gurgling and dying in the darkness, and the first

1211
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: thing he does is goes to find his wife to

1212
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 1: help it. It's a puzzle to me why he would

1213
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: do that, as opposed to going to find the first

1214
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: mate of the second mate. He may I mean, he's

1215
01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: a passenger. He may have no idea what anybody's edule

1216
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 1: is on the ship. He's been on the boat for

1217
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: like ten days. Now you should know you you're you're

1218
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 1: assuming that servant individuals. That's true. But also the schedules

1219
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: don't matter. You know, when you found somebody who's been murdered,

1220
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: you can we can wake people up. Well, know what

1221
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: I mean is he may not have known if they

1222
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 1: were in their cabins or if they were about their duties.

1223
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: And he knows that the captain's wife will be in

1224
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 1: her room because she wasn't in the room. What's the

1225
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: point of getting the captain's wife. Do you want to

1226
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: get somebody in authority? You don't want to get the

1227
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 1: captain's wife. Well, Frank, captain's wife has authority over the

1228
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 1: captain right. Uh. He may have thought that she would

1229
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 1: have been able to help the most because she may

1230
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: have had some sort of training. They may have talked

1231
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 1: about she may have you know, served as a nurse

1232
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 1: or something like that at one point. Who knows, right, Also,

1233
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 1: young men often seek out mother figures in situations like this,

1234
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: Right there, like, oh my god, I gotta find mom

1235
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 1: because she's going to know what to do. And fourthly,

1236
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: her room is the closest. It is pretty close the

1237
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 1: first door you come to, other than his own room.

1238
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,919
Speaker 1: But it still makes no sense to me. But here's

1239
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: the next thing about it about his story that makes

1240
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 1: no sense to me, uh, and that is he has

1241
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 1: he Ha's aft and had a passageway aft and and

1242
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: then he comes to us, comes to a ladder that

1243
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 1: takes him up to the deck where he meets with more.

1244
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: He beats Bram correct well. That passageway. It takes him

1245
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: right past the first mates and second mates cabins, and

1246
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 1: he did not actually stop and knock on either one

1247
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: of their doors. And it turns out that when he

1248
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 1: passed the second mads room cabin by the way, that

1249
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,439
Speaker 1: that door was actually a jar. It wasn't wide open,

1250
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 1: but it was a jar, and he just walked right

1251
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: past it. And that's the only thing I could attribute

1252
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:48,920
Speaker 1: that to. All I can say is there's that. There's

1253
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 1: the other things about monks that are a little disturbing

1254
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: to me, is that a lot of the incriminating information

1255
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: that we found and heard about Brams and his trial

1256
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: came from Monks. Yeah, I actually, despite my argument against you,

1257
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 1: I think monkst it. Yeah, I think I think it's

1258
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: entirely possible that Monks was actually like a very clever,

1259
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 1: little psychotic serial killer. So I who just thought, you know,

1260
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,200
Speaker 1: let's see if I can just you know, sign onto

1261
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: a ship murder some people and pended on somebody else

1262
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 1: and didn't write a book about And let's let's just

1263
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: see how good I am if I cannot just get

1264
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: away with it, but see somebody else hang for it,

1265
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: or he was just like an awful drunk. It will,

1266
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: but it would explain the question you asked earlier, which is,

1267
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 1: how would anybody have had time to change and clean up?

1268
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: He would have had time, he would have had He

1269
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: totally would have been the guy because also right he

1270
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:49,439
Speaker 1: he was the only one who heard the screams Charlie Brown.

1271
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 1: Charlie Brown claims that but then Charlie, but Charlie Brown

1272
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: only said he heard screams after yeah, long after Yeah,

1273
01:05:56,360 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: he didn't. So whether Charlie actually actually heard a scream

1274
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 1: or not, I don't know. And so there might there

1275
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: might not have been a scream. So he was the

1276
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: only one who heard the scream. So yeah, and I

1277
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 1: think he didn't definitely. I mean if you look at

1278
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 1: say Bram Bram Bram, like you said, maybe he could

1279
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 1: have done it. It It would have had to be it

1280
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 1: would have had to have been really well planned, some

1281
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 1: good preparations at a time. But like I said, I mean,

1282
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 1: Monks had all the time in the world. He really

1283
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: could have done it. So yeah, Monks, he's one of

1284
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: my friends. He did it. Yeah. Let me let me

1285
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: toss out another one though, which is that everybody did it.

1286
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 1: Because if all you guys have all read Murder on

1287
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 1: the orin Express right and where it turns out that

1288
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: everybody had a motive to kill the guy and they

1289
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 1: all participated, and so maybe that's what it was. That's

1290
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 1: a lot of motives, true mutiny. Yeah, well it's a

1291
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 1: it's a you know, it could have been that the

1292
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: wife was just collateral damage. And so what's the second mate? Yeah,

1293
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 1: and although again like why they were all three in

1294
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 1: separate rooms, but okay, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, yeah, Okay,

1295
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 1: what rushed the chain of command is what you do.

1296
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 1: You rushed the captain, you rushed his wife. And because

1297
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 1: the first mate is in on it. You rushed the

1298
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 1: second mate who has said I would not you know,

1299
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 1: let's just presume he said I wouldn't take part in that.

1300
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 1: You're crazy. So you you decimate the chain of command

1301
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 1: and you can insert yourself in there. But at that point,

1302
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 1: why didn't they just go rogue instead of going home?

1303
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 1: Why didn't they continue with the journey or become pirates

1304
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 1: or something, you know, like that's that's the problem with

1305
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 1: this theory is that they did it and then they

1306
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 1: chickened out. Yeah, that could have They could have concocted

1307
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:47,880
Speaker 1: some sort of a story, like there was an outbreak

1308
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: of influenza the captain. Yeah, actually right, Yeah, so they

1309
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 1: could have. I mean people died on on long voyages

1310
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: back in those days. They got swept overboard and drowned,

1311
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 1: or they got sick and died. I mean that things

1312
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: could happen. If they really were doing that, then they

1313
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:04,920
Speaker 1: just had to bury them at sea. Yeah, and the

1314
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 1: whole thing went away. Just toss them all overboard. And

1315
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: then if everybody's story is the exact same, no problem. Yeah,

1316
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 1: pretty much. Charlie Brown was such an idiot he kept

1317
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,360
Speaker 1: screwing up the story. Yeah, then they knew they were sunk.

1318
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: Damn Charlie Brown anyway, But um, I tend to say

1319
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: tend to I love conspiracies, but I don't usually believe

1320
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 1: in him because usually somebody's stupid and somebody talks. Yeah,

1321
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:33,959
Speaker 1: I think monks did. It was that it was Time Traveler.

1322
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 1: Could have been, because it turns out this load of

1323
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: wood was going to create what would eventually become the

1324
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 1: Nazi compound in Argentina in the forties. For hiding Nazis

1325
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 1: and not doing that, it didn't allow them somewhere to go,

1326
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: so then they were eventually found sent Nuremberg. Yeah, it

1327
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 1: could have been. It could have been. I'm thinking of

1328
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 1: the Illuminati, because the whole thing is actually just the

1329
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: way to get Bram killed. They didn't want to get

1330
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: their hands duty by killing him. They wanted to be

1331
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 1: strung up by the stage, so they instead they murdered

1332
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:04,600
Speaker 1: three other people have framed him for it. Yeah that

1333
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: sounds about right, Yeah, totally right. Well, it could be

1334
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 1: they made they were trying to make him a martyr.

1335
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 1: This wasn't there wait wait, wait, there there was stuff

1336
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 1: about Bram saying he was a Mason and saying things

1337
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 1: that were supposedly Mason code of I'm in distress. You know,

1338
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:30,680
Speaker 1: I'm the I'm the son of a mother who has

1339
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: already passed away. It was some phrase was recorded that

1340
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 1: that was a coded message from one person to the

1341
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: other that I need help. Well, that's why what drow Wilson.

1342
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 1: Pardon him too, because he was also a Mason, right,

1343
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:45,719
Speaker 1: that could have been I don't know what was Wilson, Mason,

1344
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 1: a lot of more. Yeah, Yeah, Wilson was a fun guy.

1345
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:58,679
Speaker 1: He was also probably an elk so shriner. Yeah, any

1346
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 1: other theories there's to be in a triangle. Yeah, I

1347
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 1: don't think that. Yeah, it's sort of like sort of

1348
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 1: exercise this mojo on somebody and made him like murder

1349
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 1: these three people. And yeah, so of course the cracking

1350
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 1: and choppy. We haven't blamed anything on Chuppy for a while,

1351
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, I don't think chuppy does so well

1352
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 1: in open water cheap, it's not really cheap. Yeah, and

1353
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:26,879
Speaker 1: there's no goats. Yeah, so anyway, this is gonna remain

1354
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 1: a kind of a mystery, I think. But I think

1355
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 1: I agree with Devon and maybe Steve about about Monks.

1356
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: I think it was probably him. Yeah, yeah, well, I

1357
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: mean it's it's but it's also entirely possible that it

1358
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 1: was one of the other regular semen who we never

1359
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 1: talked about, who had some acts to grind no pun

1360
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 1: in and did a good enough job that nobody saw

1361
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 1: him and had plenty of time to clean up. But

1362
01:10:56,040 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: because remember that Bram and Monks sat on back until

1363
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,760
Speaker 1: the sun rose, which was ours. So I would give

1364
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 1: that person, whoever, that unnamed person is plenty of time

1365
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 1: to change the clothes and wash up and hide away

1366
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: their their bloody gear. Completely possible. Yeah, it could have been.

1367
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 1: It could have been one of these things too, where

1368
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 1: somebody in the crew, like bribed the second mate to

1369
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: to kill the captain and his wife and then and

1370
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 1: then killed the second mate rather than pay him. Could

1371
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 1: have been that. You know, there's all sorts of possible forever.

1372
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah we could. Well that's what we do, yes,

1373
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 1: irresponsible conjecture, Yes pretty much. Yeah, so we've got a

1374
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 1: tagline somewhere. Yeah, I think we will, probably, but more

1375
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 1: on that later. Okay, time for a little housekeeping before

1376
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 1: we go. First off, you're probably wondering how to get

1377
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 1: ahold of us, especially, want to send me fan mail. Yeah,

1378
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:54,720
Speaker 1: our email is Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com,

1379
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: or you can send it by steamship. Yeah, that too,

1380
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: or morse, there's always Morse. We have a website Thinking

1381
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 1: Sideways podcast dot com where you can you can find

1382
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 1: our episodes. You can download them and listen to them.

1383
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 1: And we've got links to find merch all kinds of

1384
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 1: fun stuff like t shirts and mugs and stickers. Uh.

1385
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 1: You can also find us on iTunes where you can subscribe.

1386
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:17,680
Speaker 1: You can rate us, give us a review, hopefully a

1387
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 1: good review at a high rating. And oh yeah, and

1388
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 1: and downboat all the one star ratings, would you please? Yeah,

1389
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 1: And you can stream us. There's what, there's U, there's Stitcher,

1390
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 1: and there's biggle play. There's pod being which you yeah, yeah,

1391
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:36,720
Speaker 1: so you can you can find us somewhere out there.

1392
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 1: And social media, we're we're on Facebook. Of course, we

1393
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 1: have a group. We have a page. So you joined

1394
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 1: the group and like the page and yeah, and they'll

1395
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 1: try to friend us, you know, it's not a friend thing.

1396
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 1: Joined the group your friends. Yeah, we are your friends friends,

1397
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 1: which is we're not Facebook friends. Yeah. Twitter, Thinking Sideways

1398
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 1: without the G and of course we have a supreddit

1399
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 1: thinking sideways with It's all kinds of hot action, Devin.

1400
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 1: What's going on on the subreddit? Nothing? Okay, there you

1401
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 1: go get out there right now. You're missing out. That's

1402
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 1: all right. Well that's it for next week, so I

1403
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 1: can't think of anything maritiming, so goodbye. We should probably

1404
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 1: just chop this one off right here. Okay. I was

1405
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 1: going to do my schooner thing, but that's okay, you

1406
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:26,599
Speaker 1: already did that. It's a schooner too, sooner, you dumb kid.

1407
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: That's a sailboat. Sailboat is a schooner. You know what

1408
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 1: these buddy isn't real. I am totally that guy over there.

1409
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 1: It's just a guy in a suit. Okay,