1 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: So should we just start calling the Saint Louis Cardinals 2 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: the comeback Cards for now? I mean, at this point, 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: I really don't think there's a better way to brand 4 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: this baseball team. What a fun month it's been for 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: Saint Louis. Another series win against the Baltimore Orioles. Saint 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: Louis came from behind yet again and route to their 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: six to four win in the rubber match on Wednesday 8 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: night at Camden Yards, and after an off day and 9 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: beautiful scenic Arlington, Texas, they are ready for another three 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: game interleague set, this time against the Texas Rangers. Welcome 11 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: back to Cardinal Territory. I'm Katie Wu riding solo with 12 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: you today on this Friday afternoon. But still plenty of 13 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: fun things to talk about. Let's break down some numbers 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: that I think you would like. The Cardinals have won 15 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: eighteen of their last twenty three games. They've won eight 16 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: of their last ten series. They are eight games over 17 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: five hundred, a season high. If you're anything like me, 18 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: you're probably asking what the heck is going on? And 19 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: that's a great question. Let's break it dow out the 20 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: biggest question surrounding this Cardinals club. In April was if 21 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: they could balance individual player runway with overall team results. 22 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: This was a huge talking point in spring training and 23 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: in early to late April when they started to slide 24 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: and fell as low as five games under five hundred, 25 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: and in conversations with manager Alie Marmel and President of 26 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: Baseball Operations John Azaylock, this consensus was, We're not sure 27 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,639 Speaker 1: if we can do both, but we think right now 28 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: we should be afforded the ability to try. Fast forward 29 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: to the end of May, and if this month has 30 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: been any indication at all, it looks like they can 31 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: do both. But the key difference here is that the 32 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: players in which are sparking this surge aren't necessarily the 33 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: players that the organization first identified as the main factors, 34 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: if you will, so we'll get into what exactly that means, 35 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: and that's what we'll spend the majority of this episode 36 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: focusing on. Bear with me, because you know how I 37 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:59,919 Speaker 1: get when I'm by myself. But on the Athletic this morning, 38 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: we had a story up how Ollie Marvel balances development 39 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: and playing time during the Cardinals tour in May, and 40 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: I think this is super fascinating because it really breaks 41 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: down the play that Evon Herrera and Alec Burlson have 42 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: done over the last month that has essentially forced them 43 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: into the lineup. We'll get into that, but we have 44 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: to backtrack first and talk about why they got here 45 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: in the first place. So candidly, my favorite thing about 46 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: covering the Cardinals this season so far is that post 47 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: game and our postgame press conferences, us the reporters of 48 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: the media, we're talking about a different impact player each game. 49 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: Each game, it's somebody new stepping up, and in a 50 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: season designated to be about the future and long term development, 51 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: the fact that so many players are taking key steps 52 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: forward and turning it into winning results, not just individually 53 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: but from a team perspective as well, that's huge. So 54 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: we'll start with players that have taken major strides forward. 55 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: Matthew Libertore has been the Cardinals' best pitcher in the rotation. 56 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: In my opinion, he has emerged as a true starter, 57 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: and we can't talk about enough on the show how 58 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: much he sees this opportunity and how the Cardinals finally 59 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: gave him one and what he's done with it. I 60 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: think it's been tremendous. Kyle Layhy emerging as a guy 61 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: in the setup man, and I think he's going to 62 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: be there. I think he's going to be great the 63 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: spot during the rest of the season, but I also 64 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: wonder could he follow in the same paths as Libby 65 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: next year as a potential starter. Right now, I love 66 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: what we're seeing at a lay in the bullpen. He's 67 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: absolutely been a game changer position side. Take your pick, 68 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: Victor Scott the second sure looks like the center fielder 69 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: of the future. Lars Newbar, Mason Win, Brendan Donovan were 70 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: not necessarily a part of the transition group or the reset, 71 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: if you will. Those are three guys that the Cardinals 72 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: were pretty confident in their long term future, but they 73 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: just need to see them play every day. You've seen 74 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: what you have in Mason Win taught one of the 75 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: top short steps in the league. You see what you 76 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: have in Lars Newbar, who is becoming an above average 77 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: outfielder and left and has really become a thread at 78 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: the top of the order. And of course Brendan Donovan, 79 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: who leads in almost every single offensive category as one 80 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: of the top second basements in the National League. We 81 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: will continue to push the Brendan Donovan should be an 82 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: All Star narrative on this show. All Star voting opens 83 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: on June fourth, by the way, So let that keep 84 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: that in your mind. Then you keep going down the list. 85 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: Of course, I think when you see your cornerstones veteran 86 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: players and Wilson Contrari's and no One or not other 87 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: than a nice job of letting this young identity from 88 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: this team kind of come to fruition but still holding 89 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: it down. I know No One hasn't been super happy 90 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: about his offense, but his defense is back to a 91 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: Gold Glove caliber standard. Contrarass is doing a heck of 92 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: a job at first base as well. So this is 93 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about when I say go down the list, 94 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: it's somebody new making an impact every game. Those of 95 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: us who watch every Cardinals game know this. It's an 96 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: exciting brand of baseball that we haven't seen in a 97 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: very long time. Well, what does that have to do 98 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: with the playing time picture? Just about everything. Yvon Herrera 99 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: and Alec Burlson were not necessarily the first tier of 100 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: the development group identified early this season. Right. That was 101 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: Jordan Walk and Nolan Gorman. They were, whether it was 102 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: fair or not, the designated faces of this transition season, 103 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure if it's because of their pedigree 104 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: as former top prospects, as former first round picks, or 105 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: because they haven't really lived up to their potential yet 106 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: for a multitude of reasons, some on the player, most 107 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: on the team, But those are the two guys that 108 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: Moe and Allie identified early on as Hey, we have 109 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: to get them right, we have to get them at bats. 110 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: But the Cardinals are also finding out that they have 111 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: some true bats in the second tier of development group, 112 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: the Herrera, the Burlison group, and it's led them to 113 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: where they are now, which would be if the season 114 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: ended right now on May thirtieth, they'd be a playoff team. 115 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: Who saw that coming certainly not me. So how does 116 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: that play into the playing time picture? Let's break that 117 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: down first though. A message from our friends at Harry's Razors. 118 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 2: If you want a razor that looks good, makes you 119 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: look good, gets the shape done, and doesn't cost much. 120 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,239 Speaker 2: Uh oh oh is it nice? 121 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 3: That's a Harry John and you can smell it too. 122 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 2: Smell it. 123 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's Harry's. That's the shave, Tael. I'm telling 124 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 3: you look, I mean, you. 125 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: Look scary, man. 126 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: Shut fresh, come and come and come and get. 127 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: I don't want to. 128 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: Touch like German engineered blades made in their own factory 129 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 2: that stays sharp longer. 130 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 3: I'm using the razor and it does not. You can 131 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: start to feel when it gets dull. I mean, you 132 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 3: guys only do like here and like up here. I'm 133 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 3: doing Acreach. Get the edge on your shave with Harry's. 134 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 3: Normally their trial set is ten dollars, but right now 135 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 3: you can get it for just six dollars at Harrys 136 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 3: dot com slash foul. That's our exclusive link Harrys dot 137 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 3: com slash foul for a six dollars trial set. 138 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: As the Cardinals continue to try to push their way 139 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: back to the top of the stand, Olie Marmal is 140 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: now trying to balance playing time between Jordan Walker and 141 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman because that was promised from at the start 142 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: of the season and identified as the two guys the 143 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: absolutely needed to figure out. He's also trying to balance 144 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: Evon Herrera, who is you know, he's not going to 145 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: hit over four hundred forever, but he is absolutely one 146 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: of the Cardinals' the most lethal bats, and Alec Burlson, 147 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: who does a really nice job against right handed hitters 148 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: and is the better left handed bat from a production 149 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: standpoint than Gorman right now, So there are four players 150 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: that all he needs to try to find playing time 151 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: for every day in Herrera, Burlison, Walker and Gorman, and 152 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: it's not an easy process. So I talked to Alli 153 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: earlier in the week. Here's how the manager of the 154 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: Cardinals is currently breaking down his playing time. I'll read 155 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: this straight from the Athletic again. You can find the 156 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: story there under the Cardinal's page. Olie Marmele said, I 157 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: don't want to use Jordan Walker as a platoon guy, 158 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: but I don't mind firing Alec Burlson in there strictly 159 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: against righty's. I won't do it every time because Walker 160 00:07:58,040 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: needs to play more than whenever we see a left 161 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: hand starter. But the way Alec is swinging it, it's 162 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: hard enough to put him there against some of the 163 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: other team's best right handers. So Jordan will play against 164 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: lefties and righty's doesn't matter, and I'll pick Burleson's spots 165 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: to hit against righty's. I'd like Herrera to be in 166 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: there every day, it's going to be mostly at the DH. 167 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: I'll pair him with a couple of guys throughout the 168 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: week to catch, which gives Burlison a shot at playing 169 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: first and getting Wilson Conturis off his feet. He'll serve 170 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: with the DH. I will give Walker a couple of 171 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: days a week off, playing him four to five days 172 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: a week instead of running him out there every day, 173 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: which gives burlis In another two games in the outfield. 174 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: The name you're looking for here is Gorman, and that's 175 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: where I'm having the most trouble finding playing time for. 176 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: That's not an easy rotation. So let's break down a 177 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: couple of things. One. I think that's a really candid 178 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: explanation from Ollie Marmle, and I appreciate the transparency there. 179 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: Sometimes in situations like this, there is going to be 180 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: an odd man out. In this case right now, it's 181 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman. And is that fair to Gorman? Probably not. 182 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: But if you play Gorman every day, who are you 183 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: sitting him for? Who's is that coming at the expense 184 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: of you? Sure as heck are not taking Brendan Donovan 185 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: out of that lineup? No way. You're definitely not taking 186 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: Herrera out of that lineup. You shouldn't. And Al Burlson 187 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: has done a great job against Riety's Now Jordan Walker. 188 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: We talked about this in the last three weeks. It 189 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: was not good offensively, he really struggled, but the Cardinals 190 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: committed to playing him every day through that and what 191 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: we're seeing over the last week is potentially a breakthrough. 192 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: Let's look at Jordan's stats over the last week, and again, 193 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: small sample size, but this is important to note when 194 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: you think about the long term picture for Jordan Walker. 195 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: Let me find it. Give me a second. I think 196 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: with Jordan it's not just the stats which look good, right, 197 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: it's also how he's playing and how he's bought into 198 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: the messaging. So twofold, maybe I won't find Jordan's stats, 199 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: maybe I don't know how to read there. They are 200 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: over the last eleven games, Jordan is hitting three thirty 201 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: three with the five forty five slugging line. He has 202 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: a homer and has driven in ten runs, and he's 203 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: come through the clutch. That's part of the collective buying 204 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: that we talked in last episode with Bernie. How the 205 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: organization is buying into Jordan, and Jordan has bought back 206 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: into them. That is so important to continue doing so 207 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: if you take Walker out of the lineup now that 208 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: you're seeing substantial progress in the box score, you're just 209 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: undoing that month, that month's work of progress. So yeah, 210 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: who are you going to play at the expense of 211 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman? What Ivon Herrera and Alex Burlson have done 212 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: is very similar to what Matthew Libertore has done. They 213 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: have created their runway. Herrera coming in and being one 214 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: of the team's most prolific offensive hitters was probably not 215 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,599 Speaker 1: something anyone had on their bingo card. I think we 216 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: knew he could hit, obviously because we know the scouting report, 217 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: but I didn't have him coming in as the team's 218 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: primary DH. Let's back up, why is Herrera, who came 219 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: up as a top catching prospect, going to be the 220 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: primary DH. That's actually more of a praise to Pedro 221 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 1: Pajz than it is a knock on Yvonne Herrera. Pedro 222 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 1: does so many things well in terms of game planning, scouting, 223 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: pitch calling, preparation. Almost every starting pitcher has commended Pedro 224 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: at some point this season or credited him for his 225 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: game planning and his execution. And when you think about this, 226 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 1: pitch to contact staff having a game plan and trusting 227 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: your catcher is so important because it's not like this 228 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: starting rotation is going to go out there and blow 229 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: Doris pass hitters. They don't have that below. They don't 230 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: have that stuff. They do have trust in Pedro to 231 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: be able to be effective and get those out. That's 232 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: not to say Herrera can't do that, but they need 233 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: to develop him keyword of the season along that side 234 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: defensively to get him to Pedro's level. But if you're 235 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: only Marmal, you're not sitting that that on the bench. 236 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: There's no way Herrera should be playing every day. So 237 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: if it's at the DH and it comes at the 238 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: expense of playing time for somebody, but you're winning games, 239 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: that's kind of the balance. The Cardinals are having a 240 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: hard time, well actually, I don't know they're having a 241 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: hard time because they're doing a pretty good job of 242 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: finding success and the wins and losses. But it will 243 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: come the expense of a player. And I appreciate only 244 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: Marmal's honesty about, you know, just not being a tough 245 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: spot for Gorman right now, because it is he hasn't 246 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: looked great. I will say there are things underlying under 247 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: the hood that suggests that things are better for Gorman. 248 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: He's cut a strikeout rate down nearly eleven percent compared 249 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: to last year. Last year, that strike out rate was 250 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: thirty seven point six percent. This year it's just over 251 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: twenty seven, so that's huge. He's working more walks, the 252 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: contact rate is up. He's just not hitting for average 253 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: or hitting for power. And when you're a player who 254 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: profiles like Gorman, you want to see that. Now. What 255 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: he really needs is a long run like Jordan Walker 256 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: had consistent bats to show it. But you can't do 257 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: that right now if you're the Cardinals, because it's coming 258 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: at the expense of somebody else who's been so productive. 259 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: It's not like Donovan is slumping. It's not like Burlison 260 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: is slumping or Herrera and Walker is showing signs of 261 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,599 Speaker 1: turning it around. So someone again is going to be 262 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: the odd man out. In this case, it's Nolan Gorman. 263 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: Is it perfect? No? But is it hard? Can you 264 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: argue with the results from the Cardinals right now from 265 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: a team standpoint? Also? No? I think the biggest question 266 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: for Saint Louis going forward is how are going to 267 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: continue balancing long term results with short term team victories 268 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: and is a sustainable I kind of think it might be. 269 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: It's just coming at different players doing different things that 270 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: we may be first expected in the beginning of the season. 271 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: So we'll dive into Nolan Gorman's playing time. Like I said, 272 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: this is going to be a short one because we 273 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: have to get to the ballpark, and I think it's 274 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: I think we can dive into that a little bit 275 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: more on what the Cardinals should do with Nolan Gorman, 276 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: but first we got to hear from Roeback. 277 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: The weather is warming up, and with that being said, 278 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 2: you need to check out what Roeback is bringing to 279 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: the table. If you're a golfer, especially and you're looking 280 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 2: for golf shirts that just have the perfect style and 281 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 2: also are soft. They're lightweight and perfect for the summertime. 282 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 2: Rowback is the spot. Of course, FT's hooking you up 283 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 2: with the code for twenty percent off at rowback dot com. 284 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 2: That's foul on rhobac k dot com for twenty percent 285 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 2: off all shorts, hoodies, Polos, and more. 286 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: So. When I asked Ali Marmel before the road about 287 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman and what we should be looking at, it 288 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: was pretty self explanatory. He said, what's tough for Gorman 289 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: right now is when you look under the hood, he's 290 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 1: making more contact, he's chasing less, he's walking more. We 291 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: just discussed this. Yes, the bats speed is down, but 292 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: that's at the expense of making contact. He needs a 293 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: run of games to show that it's coming into play, 294 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: which is hard to do at the moment because I'm 295 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: not sure who he'd play him at the expensive there's 296 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: not a great answer for it. Now. The common fan 297 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: reaction would be, We'll just send Gorman a Memphis. He 298 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: needs a bats. There is nothing that Nolan Gorman can 299 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: get out of Memphis anymore he needs. He doesn't need 300 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: to show anything at Triple A. He doesn't need ad 301 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: bats in Triple A. We know he can hit Triple 302 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: A pitching, we know he can be a minor league hitterer. 303 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: They don't need to know that. The whole point of 304 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: the season is to figure out what this team can do, 305 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: or what these players can do at the major league level. 306 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: So there is nothing for Nolan Gorman in the miners 307 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: except for the sake of consistent at bats, which ultimately 308 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: does nothing for his long term development. It doesn't matter 309 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: if Nolan Gorman can hit minor league pitching, it matters 310 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: if he can hit major league pitching. Finding him at 311 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: bat right now is going to continue to be a 312 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: priority for Allie Marble, But as he said, won't be easy. 313 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: I think right now, if you're the Saint Los Cardinals, 314 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: you play the hot bats. I know that John Mozelat 315 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: came out in the off season and said we're going 316 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: to give Gorman six hundred of vats. That's when they 317 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: were under the pretense that Nolan Arnatto would not be 318 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: a Cardinal. Nolan stayed, mo said, and Ollie said, we 319 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: could probably get him four fifty to five hundred at vats. 320 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: And right now, Gorman's on pace to see about three fifty. 321 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: So that's obviously much lower than six hundred, but that 322 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: was out of the organization's control. For the most part, 323 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: three to fifty is still much lower than four fifty 324 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: to five hundred, but three fifty is still a solid 325 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: sample size to decide what Gorman can be in the future. Now, 326 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: if Burlison taper's off or Herrara tapers off, and there's 327 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: an opportunity to get Gorman back in there, we will 328 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: see that. I mean we saw the Cardinals do the 329 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: exact opposite of this. In April, Burlison was not playing 330 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: well and not hitting well, and he was riding the 331 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: bench and Gorman was hitting or attempting to hit every 332 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: single day. He had that stretch of playing time, he 333 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: didn't do much with it. Now the Cardinals are figuring 334 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: out how to develop other players as well, So it's 335 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: Burlison's time to shine. So for all the clamor that 336 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: I've been getting about Nolan Gorman needing to go to 337 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: Memphis or getting in bats, I agree with you. He 338 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: does need to get at bats, but not in Memphis. 339 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: It needs to be in the major leagues and right 340 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: now if you want this card the Cardinals to keep 341 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: up their wind streak and you know, maybe be a 342 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: relevant team in the second half because who knows what 343 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: they're going to do with the trade deadline. That's time. 344 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: That's talk for a different episode. Then this is kind 345 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: of what you have to do. Play the hot bats, 346 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: communicate with Gorman that he's going to see some sort 347 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: of a decrease in playing time, just like you did 348 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: with Burlison. These things will even themselves out and go 349 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: from there. But I really like what the Cardinals are 350 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: seeing from Jordan Walker right now. I think this is 351 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: an example of what happens when you stick with the 352 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: player and you're patient, even when the results aren't there 353 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: fully all the way. I love what von Herrera looks 354 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: like in the middle of the order. I really think 355 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: Alec Gurlson can be a true bat against righty's and 356 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: I don't disagree with the notion of platoon him. If 357 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: you look at the splits Burlson his career hit righty's 358 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: much better than he has against lefties. And when you 359 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: have finally simbats from the right side that can provide 360 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: some thumb, use them as a platoon player, use them 361 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: at his best. I agree. It's not a perfect situation 362 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: for the Saint Louis Cardinals, and you certainly want them. 363 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: You want to see what you have in Nolan Gorman. 364 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: But right now, if you're a fan, and I'm not 365 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: sure what the answer is, because I think we all 366 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: have different opinions here, ask yourself what's more important winning 367 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: right now or figuring out where your players are a 368 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: long term But what if the players that are performing 369 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: right now are part of that long term? And what 370 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: if this is expedited the process for where the Cardinals 371 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: are supposed to be, because that is a legitimate thing 372 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: as well. That's what I'm thinking about as I watch 373 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: the Cardinals for three games in Texas, will see how 374 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: they end the last two or three games of the month. 375 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,239 Speaker 1: June will be a big test for them. There are 376 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: two off days, two scheduled team off days in June, 377 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 1: one being June second, one being June sixteenth. The Cardinals 378 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: depth has not really been tested, so let's knock on 379 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: wood collectively together. There have not been any major injuries 380 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: for the Saint Louis Cardinals yet, they have not had 381 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: their rotation tested, had they're depth tested. They've been able 382 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: to play, especially with the every Thursday off day in May, 383 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: they're a team almost every day. In June, They're gonna 384 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: have to rely on their bench. They're gonna have to 385 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: rely on their health. We might see Stephen Mattz, who 386 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: has thrived in that bullpen roll, come back and serve 387 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: in that hybrid role again just for the sake of 388 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: resting the pictures. We've talked about how important that's been 389 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: with Ollie Marmel and Dusty Blake and the results it's 390 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: led to. So June will be a big test for 391 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: the Cardinals in terms of their depth. That's been a 392 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: problem for them in years past. I like to see 393 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: how they do from there. But right now, I think 394 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: it's safe to say the Cardinals are ahead of schedule 395 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: with their development plan. They've done so and they are 396 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: that way because certain players have taken major steps forward 397 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: that they maybe didn't project to and it's really been 398 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: fun to watch. So that was a super fast version 399 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 1: of Cardinal territory again. Had about to head to the 400 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: ballpark Globe Life Fields. Let's see what they got and 401 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: let's keep our minds focused onto June. Should be a 402 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: well pitched series. You got Libby tonight, Sonny on sat 403 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: and Eric Betty on Sunday. The Texas Rangers have been 404 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: a woefully offensive team. Their only team in baseball with 405 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: a lower OPS than Texas are the Colorado Rockies, and 406 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: that's never a good sign when you're looped in with 407 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: that organization. So we'll see how the Cardinals do to 408 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: round out the month, and we'll see what they do 409 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: with their depth in June, because I firmly believe that 410 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: we'll be tested, But right now, I don't you can't 411 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: you cannot fault Ollie marmal and the Cardinals were playing 412 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: in the hot bats. I'm sure the Gorman situation will 413 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: work its left out in time, but right now and 414 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: a season about development and figuring out who can play, 415 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: you might as well play the players that are producing. 416 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 1: All right, Burnie and I back with you on Sunday 417 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: to break down the ti Oh my gosh, I did 418 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: I say Tigers? The Rangers and Cardinals series. Hopefully it's 419 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: another series win. Thanks to Zoking for watching. This is 420 00:19:46,119 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory three