1 00:00:14,036 --> 00:00:22,716 Speaker 1: Pushing yo. Man. Remember when we ran high school and 2 00:00:22,796 --> 00:00:26,396 Speaker 1: we won the city champion public school city tennis championship. 3 00:00:28,236 --> 00:00:30,676 Speaker 1: We won ten years in a row, right, Oh man, 4 00:00:30,676 --> 00:00:32,876 Speaker 1: Well we didn't, but I think it was our tenth 5 00:00:32,876 --> 00:00:35,956 Speaker 1: grade year and we went to city hall and we 6 00:00:36,036 --> 00:00:38,716 Speaker 1: got to meet the mayor who was then Harold Washington. 7 00:00:38,836 --> 00:00:41,836 Speaker 1: I know, I mean we were all dressed up and 8 00:00:42,076 --> 00:00:46,836 Speaker 1: you looked ridiculous in like this old man blazer. I didn't. 9 00:00:47,716 --> 00:00:50,036 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't own a suit. I didn't own 10 00:00:50,076 --> 00:00:52,996 Speaker 1: a jacket. I had to borrow my dad's jacket. You 11 00:00:53,076 --> 00:00:56,036 Speaker 1: are exactly right. Your memory is correct. But we did 12 00:00:56,036 --> 00:00:57,916 Speaker 1: get to meet Harold Washington, to meet Harry, I want 13 00:00:57,956 --> 00:01:00,356 Speaker 1: to forget that. And boy I was beautiful. Boy did 14 00:01:00,356 --> 00:01:06,276 Speaker 1: that turn out to be historic. I'm Khalil Gibra Muhammed. 15 00:01:06,436 --> 00:01:09,796 Speaker 1: I'm Ben Austin. We are two best friends, one black, 16 00:01:09,916 --> 00:01:13,316 Speaker 1: one white. I'm a historian and I'm a journalist. And 17 00:01:13,476 --> 00:01:16,196 Speaker 1: this is some of my best friends are some of 18 00:01:16,196 --> 00:01:20,476 Speaker 1: my best friends are dot dot dot. In this show, 19 00:01:20,756 --> 00:01:24,316 Speaker 1: we wrestle with the challenges and the absurdities of a 20 00:01:24,396 --> 00:01:28,276 Speaker 1: deeply divided and unequal country. And today we are talking 21 00:01:28,276 --> 00:01:32,836 Speaker 1: about one of the most legendary Chicago politicians, Mayor Harold Washington, 22 00:01:32,916 --> 00:01:36,396 Speaker 1: who's the subject of a recent documentary Punch nine. For 23 00:01:36,476 --> 00:01:40,276 Speaker 1: Harold Washington. We're gonna learn about his Rainbow Coalition, where 24 00:01:40,276 --> 00:01:43,356 Speaker 1: it came from, and how it's working today. Yep, yep, 25 00:01:43,436 --> 00:01:45,556 Speaker 1: that's right. We're also going to talk to someone who 26 00:01:45,636 --> 00:01:49,196 Speaker 1: is carrying on that legacy in Chicago right now, an 27 00:01:49,236 --> 00:02:08,636 Speaker 1: older woman from Chicago, Rosanna Rodriguez Sanchez. Hey, man, I 28 00:02:08,676 --> 00:02:11,876 Speaker 1: am really interested in what's happening in Chicago right now. 29 00:02:11,916 --> 00:02:14,796 Speaker 1: We have a ton of black people and Latino people 30 00:02:14,876 --> 00:02:17,876 Speaker 1: running for mayor. The current mayor, Laurie Lightfoot, has been 31 00:02:17,876 --> 00:02:20,516 Speaker 1: on her heels for a long time. And I know, 32 00:02:20,716 --> 00:02:22,756 Speaker 1: you know this doesn't make a lot of sense to everybody, 33 00:02:22,796 --> 00:02:24,996 Speaker 1: but Chicago has been a bell weather for the nation 34 00:02:25,076 --> 00:02:29,556 Speaker 1: for a long time. I mean, the first black yeah 35 00:02:29,636 --> 00:02:32,916 Speaker 1: Chicago is the first black politician since Reconstruction came out 36 00:02:32,956 --> 00:02:37,116 Speaker 1: of Chicago. The obviously, the first black President of the 37 00:02:37,196 --> 00:02:40,076 Speaker 1: United States came from Chicago. The first black woman to 38 00:02:40,156 --> 00:02:42,556 Speaker 1: go to the US Senate came out of Chicago. So 39 00:02:42,636 --> 00:02:45,556 Speaker 1: what happens in Chicago matters to the rest of the nation, 40 00:02:45,676 --> 00:02:48,436 Speaker 1: right man, that's right, that's right. You know, this mayor 41 00:02:48,516 --> 00:02:50,876 Speaker 1: election is historic in so many ways. And one way 42 00:02:50,916 --> 00:02:55,396 Speaker 1: which is surprising is there's only one white candidate in 43 00:02:55,436 --> 00:02:58,516 Speaker 1: the race. Right, Oh wow, yes, that has to be 44 00:02:58,556 --> 00:03:01,516 Speaker 1: the first time ever in the history of Chicago. I 45 00:03:01,596 --> 00:03:04,716 Speaker 1: did not only one white candidate. Actually didn't realize that. 46 00:03:04,716 --> 00:03:08,716 Speaker 1: That's really fascinating because you and I watched this documentary 47 00:03:08,796 --> 00:03:12,996 Speaker 1: Punch nine, and it is a history of the first 48 00:03:13,076 --> 00:03:16,876 Speaker 1: black mayor of Chicago, Harold Washington, when the script was 49 00:03:16,916 --> 00:03:20,676 Speaker 1: totally flipped away from you know, a gazillion white mayors 50 00:03:20,876 --> 00:03:24,516 Speaker 1: and one of the most ruthless machine politicians, old Man 51 00:03:24,716 --> 00:03:27,276 Speaker 1: Richard J. Daley mayor for life. He was mayor for 52 00:03:27,316 --> 00:03:30,676 Speaker 1: twenty one years. But yeah, Harold Washington, his election in 53 00:03:30,756 --> 00:03:33,916 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three was such a big deal for us 54 00:03:33,956 --> 00:03:37,436 Speaker 1: as young people. Then we were early teenagers. Maybe we're 55 00:03:37,476 --> 00:03:41,356 Speaker 1: eleven or twenty, maybe that's not teenagers even. And I 56 00:03:41,436 --> 00:03:45,476 Speaker 1: do remember my dad working on the campaign. I remember 57 00:03:45,836 --> 00:03:48,716 Speaker 1: people campaigning all around our neighborhood. Yeah, I remember this 58 00:03:48,876 --> 00:03:51,476 Speaker 1: being really such a huge deal. Yeah, yeah, no, I 59 00:03:51,516 --> 00:03:54,036 Speaker 1: mean I think you know a lot of times we 60 00:03:54,156 --> 00:03:56,716 Speaker 1: take for granted, like you know, Jews working on this 61 00:03:56,796 --> 00:04:00,876 Speaker 1: campaign with black folks. For example, in that documentary, there's 62 00:04:00,916 --> 00:04:03,556 Speaker 1: this moment where, you know, you can hear in the 63 00:04:03,636 --> 00:04:06,996 Speaker 1: documentary all these slogans that are being crafted, like Hunky's 64 00:04:07,076 --> 00:04:09,596 Speaker 1: for Harold, which of course is like ethnics, nerve for 65 00:04:09,756 --> 00:04:12,596 Speaker 1: Hungarians or Eastern Europeans. And the one I love was 66 00:04:12,676 --> 00:04:17,716 Speaker 1: locks and bagels for Harold. So that's that's kind of 67 00:04:17,716 --> 00:04:21,876 Speaker 1: like the energy that this this Rainbow Coalition was unleashan 68 00:04:22,076 --> 00:04:26,156 Speaker 1: Carol Washington is asking for support from from this huge 69 00:04:26,156 --> 00:04:29,116 Speaker 1: group of progressive allies, and everyone called him Harold like 70 00:04:29,116 --> 00:04:33,356 Speaker 1: this sort of personal he he had this sort of avuncular, 71 00:04:33,476 --> 00:04:37,956 Speaker 1: grandfatherly way like connected to him, but he also had 72 00:04:37,996 --> 00:04:41,276 Speaker 1: this this forcefulness, you know, like he didn't take shit. 73 00:04:41,756 --> 00:04:45,276 Speaker 1: And he also his language. He used this you know, 74 00:04:45,516 --> 00:04:49,356 Speaker 1: sort of um, you know, like phosaurus words all the time. 75 00:04:49,396 --> 00:04:51,236 Speaker 1: You had to look up the words that he was saying. 76 00:04:51,596 --> 00:04:54,156 Speaker 1: He was just so erudite. At the same time, it 77 00:04:54,196 --> 00:04:56,716 Speaker 1: was sort of like captivating you as like Shakespearean. It's 78 00:04:56,796 --> 00:04:58,876 Speaker 1: kind of like me, I love that, thank yes, yes, 79 00:05:01,036 --> 00:05:03,476 Speaker 1: not at all, not at all, you know, So so 80 00:05:03,676 --> 00:05:06,076 Speaker 1: looking back on this history for me, and you know, 81 00:05:06,116 --> 00:05:09,196 Speaker 1: I studied this uh for many things, including the the 82 00:05:09,236 --> 00:05:14,556 Speaker 1: book about public housing. For me, Harold Washington, that moment 83 00:05:14,556 --> 00:05:19,036 Speaker 1: in time is about participation in the democratic process. I mean, 84 00:05:19,396 --> 00:05:21,796 Speaker 1: we often talk about how the civil rights were sort 85 00:05:21,796 --> 00:05:24,836 Speaker 1: of disconnected from our childhood in the eighties, but this 86 00:05:24,996 --> 00:05:27,876 Speaker 1: is the closest connection to me. One hundred and thirty 87 00:05:27,916 --> 00:05:31,356 Speaker 1: thousand people were added to the voting roles at this time. 88 00:05:32,156 --> 00:05:34,796 Speaker 1: That's so many people who were like, want to participate 89 00:05:34,796 --> 00:05:37,676 Speaker 1: in the democratic process who weren't part of it before, 90 00:05:38,276 --> 00:05:40,796 Speaker 1: and a huge number of them were Black people. Yeah. Man, 91 00:05:40,836 --> 00:05:42,956 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you talked about him increasing the voter 92 00:05:43,116 --> 00:05:46,356 Speaker 1: roles and increasing the number of black voters because in 93 00:05:46,396 --> 00:05:50,996 Speaker 1: many ways, I mean, he was inspired by earlier movements 94 00:05:51,036 --> 00:05:54,316 Speaker 1: for participatory democracy. He was inspired by the Black Panther 95 00:05:54,476 --> 00:05:59,436 Speaker 1: Party in Chicago that ultimately coined the phrase Rainbow Coalition, 96 00:05:59,836 --> 00:06:05,116 Speaker 1: and those folks moved from civil disobedience and grassroots organizing 97 00:06:05,156 --> 00:06:08,316 Speaker 1: the Young Lords, which was a Puerto Rican inspired organization 98 00:06:08,356 --> 00:06:11,116 Speaker 1: the Young Patriot to a working class white people. They 99 00:06:11,156 --> 00:06:14,436 Speaker 1: all came together in this so called Rainbow Coalition to 100 00:06:14,596 --> 00:06:19,316 Speaker 1: fight for equity, to fight for justice in Chicago, and 101 00:06:19,356 --> 00:06:22,196 Speaker 1: in the end, that era of the nineteen sixties under 102 00:06:22,236 --> 00:06:26,356 Speaker 1: Hall Washington translated into the power of the ballot, the 103 00:06:26,436 --> 00:06:29,836 Speaker 1: power of the vote, the power to take charge of Chicago. 104 00:06:30,276 --> 00:06:34,316 Speaker 1: And that's what was so exciting about his candidacy. Yeah, yeah, 105 00:06:34,356 --> 00:06:38,316 Speaker 1: Harrod Washington actually begins his father is part of the 106 00:06:38,316 --> 00:06:42,876 Speaker 1: Democratic machine, and Harrow Washington gets elected into into first 107 00:06:43,356 --> 00:06:46,716 Speaker 1: state office and then he's a congressman. And you couldn't 108 00:06:46,756 --> 00:06:49,276 Speaker 1: do that without having sort of the approval of the 109 00:06:49,356 --> 00:06:52,716 Speaker 1: daily machine. But he breaks with them, and it's issues today, 110 00:06:52,996 --> 00:06:56,636 Speaker 1: you know, police brutality and standing up against it, you know, 111 00:06:57,036 --> 00:06:59,956 Speaker 1: issues of black disenfranchisement and not being part of the 112 00:07:00,036 --> 00:07:02,876 Speaker 1: process of not really sort of participating in the city. 113 00:07:04,076 --> 00:07:06,836 Speaker 1: And yeah, he makes this total break and becomes an 114 00:07:06,836 --> 00:07:09,116 Speaker 1: outsider candidate. And you know, how do you do that? 115 00:07:09,196 --> 00:07:11,076 Speaker 1: How do you sort of you know, fight the powers 116 00:07:11,116 --> 00:07:14,356 Speaker 1: that be and and you know, build this huge coalition 117 00:07:14,396 --> 00:07:16,716 Speaker 1: to try to overcome it. It was it was it 118 00:07:16,796 --> 00:07:19,636 Speaker 1: seemed like it was impossible in Chicago, and we lived 119 00:07:19,636 --> 00:07:21,556 Speaker 1: at a time when we saw it happen. That's right, 120 00:07:21,596 --> 00:07:25,556 Speaker 1: It seemed impossible, but it wasn't. And the threat of 121 00:07:25,596 --> 00:07:29,196 Speaker 1: his success as the leader of this rainbow coalition in 122 00:07:29,316 --> 00:07:33,836 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, Chicago produced a moment in time which 123 00:07:33,876 --> 00:07:37,196 Speaker 1: is still reverberating to this day. Of course, since Chicago 124 00:07:37,236 --> 00:07:40,436 Speaker 1: I was talking about, you're talking about now like the 125 00:07:40,476 --> 00:07:44,156 Speaker 1: white backlash against this movement or yeah, yeah, I'm talking 126 00:07:44,196 --> 00:07:48,916 Speaker 1: about when Harold Washington was finally nominated as a Democratic 127 00:07:48,956 --> 00:07:52,596 Speaker 1: candidate for mayor and instead of it being a shoe 128 00:07:52,636 --> 00:07:55,236 Speaker 1: in for the general election and becoming the next mayor, 129 00:07:55,996 --> 00:08:01,876 Speaker 1: the white working class haters who Harold Washington said were 130 00:08:02,276 --> 00:08:05,676 Speaker 1: racist from rib to rib, he said in this amazing 131 00:08:05,876 --> 00:08:10,836 Speaker 1: eclip from the documentary, ultimately be yan to rally Chicago's 132 00:08:11,076 --> 00:08:16,916 Speaker 1: blue hardcore Democrat daily voters start to rally around this 133 00:08:17,436 --> 00:08:21,076 Speaker 1: you know nothing candidate Bernie Epton as a way to 134 00:08:21,236 --> 00:08:25,716 Speaker 1: save white Chicago from Harold Washington. One of the things 135 00:08:25,796 --> 00:08:28,276 Speaker 1: that's crazy, as you were talking about, you know, Jewish 136 00:08:28,276 --> 00:08:31,396 Speaker 1: people like my family supporting Harold Washington and people on 137 00:08:31,436 --> 00:08:35,356 Speaker 1: the South Side. Bernie Epton lived like on the same 138 00:08:35,396 --> 00:08:38,076 Speaker 1: block as Harold Washington. He lives in Hyde Park. He's 139 00:08:38,116 --> 00:08:40,756 Speaker 1: a Hyde Park Jewish guy, a lawyer. Oh. I didn't 140 00:08:40,756 --> 00:08:44,516 Speaker 1: realize that he's a Republican. But being a Republican in 141 00:08:44,596 --> 00:08:46,876 Speaker 1: Chicago then meant absolutely nothing. It was just sort of 142 00:08:46,916 --> 00:08:50,196 Speaker 1: like a nominal thing. Right. But because of this threat 143 00:08:50,196 --> 00:08:53,196 Speaker 1: of the first black mayor and sort of taking power, 144 00:08:53,276 --> 00:08:56,716 Speaker 1: people felt something was being taken away from them, replacement theory. 145 00:08:57,956 --> 00:09:00,476 Speaker 1: They started rallying behind this guy that nobody even knew, 146 00:09:00,836 --> 00:09:05,076 Speaker 1: and Bernie Epton. He has this campaign slogan, Bernie Epton 147 00:09:05,396 --> 00:09:10,996 Speaker 1: before It's too late. Yeah, that's our hotel out. Yeah, 148 00:09:11,036 --> 00:09:13,316 Speaker 1: that's some hometown stuff right there. I mean, I don't 149 00:09:13,356 --> 00:09:15,996 Speaker 1: know if you you you had told me before that 150 00:09:16,036 --> 00:09:18,676 Speaker 1: you saw this documentary and you were struck by sort 151 00:09:18,716 --> 00:09:22,396 Speaker 1: of the somehow the overt racism, how how staunch it was, 152 00:09:22,476 --> 00:09:24,716 Speaker 1: how out there it was. Yeah. Well, I mean again, 153 00:09:24,916 --> 00:09:27,516 Speaker 1: we were children at this time, I mean, barely teenagers. 154 00:09:27,516 --> 00:09:30,916 Speaker 1: And so to think that white people in Chicago were 155 00:09:31,036 --> 00:09:35,716 Speaker 1: articulating views as racist as you know, white people in Birmingham, Um, 156 00:09:35,796 --> 00:09:38,716 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't. I didn't witness it directly, but 157 00:09:38,796 --> 00:09:42,556 Speaker 1: in this documentary it's there, It's in plain view. And 158 00:09:42,596 --> 00:09:45,156 Speaker 1: of course I'm a historian, I'm not surprised by it, 159 00:09:45,236 --> 00:09:49,596 Speaker 1: you know, in an intellectual sense, but it is very visceral. Yeah, 160 00:09:49,636 --> 00:09:52,356 Speaker 1: and then so Harrow Washington, he does eke out of 161 00:09:52,436 --> 00:09:55,636 Speaker 1: victory against against this guy Bernard Epton, but but barely, 162 00:09:55,676 --> 00:09:58,876 Speaker 1: which is crazy, Like it's incredibly close, and it's true, 163 00:09:58,956 --> 00:10:03,676 Speaker 1: like you know, the turnout is insane and um, once 164 00:10:03,716 --> 00:10:07,316 Speaker 1: he gets into office, there we have fifty aldermen in 165 00:10:07,356 --> 00:10:10,596 Speaker 1: the city council, as you know, twenty nine white aldermen 166 00:10:10,676 --> 00:10:13,676 Speaker 1: form a coalition and they're basically saying it's like some 167 00:10:13,756 --> 00:10:15,996 Speaker 1: tea party stuff. They're like, we are not going to 168 00:10:16,116 --> 00:10:19,236 Speaker 1: let any legislation pass. We are going to vote down 169 00:10:19,316 --> 00:10:22,276 Speaker 1: every measure. We're just basically going to shut down city council. 170 00:10:22,556 --> 00:10:25,596 Speaker 1: They're called the Verdoliac twenty nine for this guy, one 171 00:10:25,596 --> 00:10:28,796 Speaker 1: of the aldermen from the South Side, Eddie Verdoliac Fast 172 00:10:28,916 --> 00:10:31,876 Speaker 1: Eddie people Eddie as he was always sorry doing deals 173 00:10:31,916 --> 00:10:35,116 Speaker 1: and he does eventually go to prison himself. But but 174 00:10:35,196 --> 00:10:38,036 Speaker 1: they shut down everything and it is it is completely 175 00:10:38,636 --> 00:10:43,116 Speaker 1: along racial lines. You know, all of the twenty nine 176 00:10:43,196 --> 00:10:45,796 Speaker 1: or white, um, some of the there's some white people 177 00:10:45,876 --> 00:10:48,876 Speaker 1: on the on Harold Washington's twenty one the other aldermen, 178 00:10:49,476 --> 00:10:52,436 Speaker 1: but they're also black and Latino aldermen. Yeah, so when 179 00:10:52,476 --> 00:10:55,596 Speaker 1: you say, you know, this is some tea party stuff 180 00:10:55,676 --> 00:10:58,796 Speaker 1: it is. It's like it is a dress rehearsal for 181 00:10:58,876 --> 00:11:03,196 Speaker 1: the Republican obstructionism that we saw Mitch McConnell lead when 182 00:11:03,236 --> 00:11:06,316 Speaker 1: Obama was elected in two thousand and nine. And it's 183 00:11:06,356 --> 00:11:08,116 Speaker 1: a lot of what we continue to see in the 184 00:11:08,116 --> 00:11:11,156 Speaker 1: Republican parties down to, like, you know, every form of 185 00:11:11,196 --> 00:11:14,796 Speaker 1: denialism about the white supremacy in white nationalism that runs 186 00:11:14,876 --> 00:11:17,396 Speaker 1: through the party. But I want to talk now about 187 00:11:17,876 --> 00:11:23,396 Speaker 1: Harold Washington winning and governing and what his success as 188 00:11:23,436 --> 00:11:26,516 Speaker 1: a mayor for the time that he was mayor pressages 189 00:11:26,676 --> 00:11:29,476 Speaker 1: for the kind of battles that are taking place across 190 00:11:29,516 --> 00:11:31,636 Speaker 1: the nation right now. I mean, here's a man. You know, 191 00:11:31,676 --> 00:11:37,116 Speaker 1: he broke the machine. He ended patronage. Yeah, so he 192 00:11:37,436 --> 00:11:42,356 Speaker 1: does ain't patronage. He annacts these this legislation, the Shackman 193 00:11:42,436 --> 00:11:46,236 Speaker 1: decrees that makes it illegal to actually hand out city 194 00:11:46,276 --> 00:11:48,996 Speaker 1: contracts and city jobs to people. Yeah, and so you 195 00:11:48,996 --> 00:11:50,716 Speaker 1: can no longer do that. You have to find other 196 00:11:50,756 --> 00:11:54,036 Speaker 1: means to hook folks up. And he makes the city 197 00:11:54,196 --> 00:11:58,236 Speaker 1: ultimately way more responsive to many more Chicagoans, the kinds 198 00:11:58,236 --> 00:12:00,916 Speaker 1: of working class, black and brown voters that had been 199 00:12:00,956 --> 00:12:04,196 Speaker 1: traditionally ignored except on election day or had just been 200 00:12:04,236 --> 00:12:07,756 Speaker 1: given favors by the machine. And then finally he elects 201 00:12:07,796 --> 00:12:11,196 Speaker 1: more women to positions of lead ship in his administration 202 00:12:11,276 --> 00:12:16,156 Speaker 1: that had ever been there before and some say ever since. Yeah, 203 00:12:16,316 --> 00:12:20,236 Speaker 1: I mean seriously, one of the tragedies of Harold Washington 204 00:12:20,556 --> 00:12:24,276 Speaker 1: is he ends up winning re election and then winning 205 00:12:24,396 --> 00:12:26,796 Speaker 1: enough seats and city council of people who support him 206 00:12:26,836 --> 00:12:29,356 Speaker 1: that it breaks the virdolia twenty nine, so you can 207 00:12:29,356 --> 00:12:33,156 Speaker 1: start passing much more legislation, and very early in his 208 00:12:33,236 --> 00:12:36,036 Speaker 1: second term, and I remember exactly where I was when 209 00:12:36,076 --> 00:12:37,756 Speaker 1: I got this news. I had just picked up my 210 00:12:37,796 --> 00:12:40,836 Speaker 1: brother from the airport and we were driving back because 211 00:12:40,956 --> 00:12:43,316 Speaker 1: I was a junior in high school. We hear on 212 00:12:43,356 --> 00:12:47,676 Speaker 1: the radio that's he's died at his desk in office. Yea, 213 00:12:48,396 --> 00:12:51,236 Speaker 1: he has a massive heart attack, and so sort of 214 00:12:51,276 --> 00:12:56,836 Speaker 1: the possibility of what he could have done with with 215 00:12:56,836 --> 00:12:59,596 Speaker 1: with the city and with support we never got to 216 00:12:59,596 --> 00:13:02,196 Speaker 1: really see. Yeah. Yeah, In fact, you know, he had 217 00:13:02,236 --> 00:13:04,676 Speaker 1: he had bragged after he won election that he was 218 00:13:04,716 --> 00:13:06,796 Speaker 1: going to be mayor for twenty years. He was going 219 00:13:06,876 --> 00:13:11,836 Speaker 1: to match old Man daily in his tenure. And I 220 00:13:11,916 --> 00:13:16,556 Speaker 1: have to say the thing that his death meant to me, then, 221 00:13:17,356 --> 00:13:20,276 Speaker 1: is the closest that I imagine what it was like 222 00:13:20,476 --> 00:13:26,916 Speaker 1: when Kennedy was assassinated in nineteen sixty three. I don't 223 00:13:27,316 --> 00:13:29,236 Speaker 1: I didn't know him in the way that adults did, 224 00:13:29,276 --> 00:13:31,076 Speaker 1: but I knew him enough as a young person to 225 00:13:31,156 --> 00:13:33,156 Speaker 1: feel the loss. And I actually honestly thought he was 226 00:13:33,196 --> 00:13:35,316 Speaker 1: poisoned at the time. No one put that in my head. 227 00:13:35,316 --> 00:13:36,996 Speaker 1: I thought it on my own because I just thought 228 00:13:36,996 --> 00:13:40,116 Speaker 1: this disk just can't be true. Yeah, you said, Harold 229 00:13:40,156 --> 00:13:42,756 Speaker 1: wanted to be mayor for for twenty years. Where we 230 00:13:42,796 --> 00:13:48,156 Speaker 1: got instead with his death was Richard M. Daily being 231 00:13:48,196 --> 00:13:53,876 Speaker 1: mayor for twenty two years, the second coming, you know, 232 00:13:53,956 --> 00:13:56,196 Speaker 1: King Richard, the second somebody I heard someone call him 233 00:13:56,556 --> 00:14:00,596 Speaker 1: just recently. And so much of the city changes with that. Yeah, 234 00:14:00,636 --> 00:14:02,956 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's not the same kind of machine, 235 00:14:03,276 --> 00:14:06,316 Speaker 1: but it's a different kind of consolidation of power, and 236 00:14:06,356 --> 00:14:11,196 Speaker 1: it represents a loss for for black Chicagoans. And over time, 237 00:14:11,556 --> 00:14:13,916 Speaker 1: you know, from that time to the present, the city 238 00:14:13,956 --> 00:14:18,196 Speaker 1: has gotten whider, it's gotten wealthier, there's been more economic stratification. 239 00:14:18,556 --> 00:14:22,476 Speaker 1: Black population has diminished and left the city. And yes, 240 00:14:22,636 --> 00:14:25,916 Speaker 1: we finally had a second black mayor and mayor Laurie Lightfoot, 241 00:14:25,956 --> 00:14:30,716 Speaker 1: who was elected four years ago, and there's been huge disappointment, 242 00:14:30,756 --> 00:14:34,956 Speaker 1: and maybe that disappointment is a big reason why we 243 00:14:35,036 --> 00:14:37,836 Speaker 1: haven't really come to terms with the legacy of Harold 244 00:14:37,876 --> 00:14:42,716 Speaker 1: Washington's Rainbow Coalition, that that potential seems to me to 245 00:14:42,756 --> 00:14:46,756 Speaker 1: still be unrealized. Yeah, And I just want to add that, 246 00:14:47,036 --> 00:14:49,756 Speaker 1: building on what you just said, is the city has 247 00:14:49,756 --> 00:14:52,676 Speaker 1: gotten whider. We've lost about two hundred, two hundred and 248 00:14:52,636 --> 00:14:56,756 Speaker 1: fifty thousand black citizens since then. They've moved away from Chicago, 249 00:14:57,116 --> 00:14:59,796 Speaker 1: but the city has also gotten browner. There are many 250 00:14:59,836 --> 00:15:04,516 Speaker 1: more Latino people, and so the possibilities of coalition building. 251 00:15:05,156 --> 00:15:07,356 Speaker 1: And this is in Chicago and really in any city 252 00:15:07,356 --> 00:15:10,556 Speaker 1: and most democratic cities in the United States. This is 253 00:15:10,596 --> 00:15:13,716 Speaker 1: the demographic mix up that you know, the mix are 254 00:15:13,716 --> 00:15:15,596 Speaker 1: you saying, are you telling me some some good news? 255 00:15:15,676 --> 00:15:18,476 Speaker 1: This is the possibility we have come full circle, that 256 00:15:18,956 --> 00:15:22,636 Speaker 1: the Rainbow Coalition can be reassembled. This is why this 257 00:15:22,716 --> 00:15:24,316 Speaker 1: is the reason why I think we need to look 258 00:15:24,316 --> 00:15:27,356 Speaker 1: at this documentary. We need to think about Harold Washington's 259 00:15:27,356 --> 00:15:30,756 Speaker 1: mayoralty and his past. Even though it's forty forty damn 260 00:15:30,836 --> 00:15:33,196 Speaker 1: years ago, it's so much a part of this president, 261 00:15:33,276 --> 00:15:36,916 Speaker 1: what's potential. That's also why I asked someone to be 262 00:15:36,956 --> 00:15:40,036 Speaker 1: on the show today for the second half. Rosanna Rodriguez 263 00:15:40,036 --> 00:15:43,756 Speaker 1: Sanchez is an older person, an alder woman here in Chicago. 264 00:15:43,876 --> 00:15:46,596 Speaker 1: So she's one of now the city council members. She's 265 00:15:46,636 --> 00:15:50,116 Speaker 1: on the northwest side, the thirty third ward. I heard 266 00:15:50,156 --> 00:15:54,756 Speaker 1: her talk about Harold Washington documentary and you know it's 267 00:15:54,756 --> 00:15:57,836 Speaker 1: been airing here, Yes, the Punch nine document it's been 268 00:15:57,876 --> 00:16:01,396 Speaker 1: airing here. And there was a public screening and and 269 00:16:01,476 --> 00:16:03,676 Speaker 1: I heard her talk about here. You know, she's a 270 00:16:03,756 --> 00:16:09,076 Speaker 1: young Latina politician in Chicago currently today in twenty twenty three, 271 00:16:09,236 --> 00:16:11,596 Speaker 1: and she was talking about how this history was completely 272 00:16:11,636 --> 00:16:15,036 Speaker 1: relevant to her right now. This was about her politics 273 00:16:15,436 --> 00:16:18,876 Speaker 1: and the work that she's doing today to try to 274 00:16:18,916 --> 00:16:21,556 Speaker 1: bring the city together. Yeah. I'm so excited to learn 275 00:16:21,596 --> 00:16:25,356 Speaker 1: from her because I think her work, as I've come 276 00:16:25,396 --> 00:16:28,396 Speaker 1: to learn from you, really suggests that she's doing some 277 00:16:28,476 --> 00:16:30,836 Speaker 1: of the same work that Harold Washington did to build 278 00:16:30,836 --> 00:16:35,636 Speaker 1: a rainbow coalition forty years ago. And she's knocking on doors, 279 00:16:35,756 --> 00:16:39,636 Speaker 1: she's organizing black and brown and white people to really 280 00:16:39,676 --> 00:16:43,236 Speaker 1: focus on policies and the values that matter rather than 281 00:16:43,356 --> 00:16:46,756 Speaker 1: just the color of the skin or the representational politics 282 00:16:46,756 --> 00:16:50,556 Speaker 1: that have so often passed as substantive change over the 283 00:16:50,596 --> 00:16:53,076 Speaker 1: last forty years. Yeah, yeah, I think that's exactly right. 284 00:16:53,396 --> 00:16:56,196 Speaker 1: And we're going to talk to her. She's campaigning right now. 285 00:16:56,396 --> 00:16:58,956 Speaker 1: She's been out all day, but she took some time 286 00:16:58,956 --> 00:17:01,156 Speaker 1: and she's running for Alderman on the thirty third Ward 287 00:17:01,156 --> 00:17:02,676 Speaker 1: to come and speak with us, to come in from 288 00:17:02,676 --> 00:17:05,116 Speaker 1: the cold. And so after the break we will be 289 00:17:05,156 --> 00:17:25,436 Speaker 1: back with Rosanna Rodriguez Sanchez, Rosanna Rodrique Sanchez and older 290 00:17:25,476 --> 00:17:28,316 Speaker 1: women from the thirty third Ward in Chicago. Thank you 291 00:17:28,356 --> 00:17:31,116 Speaker 1: for being on. Some of my best friends are Thank 292 00:17:31,116 --> 00:17:34,236 Speaker 1: you for having me. Yeah, yeah, we Khalil and I 293 00:17:34,276 --> 00:17:39,156 Speaker 1: have been talking about Harold Washington and this documentary Punch nine, 294 00:17:39,676 --> 00:17:43,316 Speaker 1: and we've been thinking so much about Harold Washington's legacy 295 00:17:43,516 --> 00:17:48,476 Speaker 1: and particularly in the way that he brought together what 296 00:17:48,516 --> 00:17:52,916 Speaker 1: he called the Rainbow coalition of white people, black people, 297 00:17:53,196 --> 00:17:56,996 Speaker 1: and Latinos that also included Asian people. It'll include it 298 00:17:57,076 --> 00:18:04,476 Speaker 1: included lgbtq I people, and it was a true diverse 299 00:18:04,756 --> 00:18:08,596 Speaker 1: coalition of people that were really trying to change the 300 00:18:08,676 --> 00:18:13,076 Speaker 1: way politics we're done in Chicago. To me, it was 301 00:18:13,116 --> 00:18:18,996 Speaker 1: a really beautiful thing to witness because from what Harold 302 00:18:18,996 --> 00:18:22,756 Speaker 1: Washington did, we know that it is possible, that it 303 00:18:22,916 --> 00:18:25,836 Speaker 1: is not out of reach. That is something that we 304 00:18:25,916 --> 00:18:28,476 Speaker 1: can do, and here in Chicago, we have been working 305 00:18:29,116 --> 00:18:32,276 Speaker 1: really hard to be able to get to that point, 306 00:18:32,396 --> 00:18:33,876 Speaker 1: and I think that we have had a lot of 307 00:18:33,916 --> 00:18:37,196 Speaker 1: successes and I am very proud of what we have 308 00:18:37,316 --> 00:18:40,436 Speaker 1: been building here in Chicago. Yeah, I mean so that, 309 00:18:40,516 --> 00:18:42,956 Speaker 1: you know, that's a question. I saw you give a talk, 310 00:18:42,996 --> 00:18:45,756 Speaker 1: You're a part of a panel discussion talking about the documentary, 311 00:18:46,116 --> 00:18:48,956 Speaker 1: and it really struck me seeing you up there. You're 312 00:18:48,996 --> 00:18:53,076 Speaker 1: a young Latina politician in Chicago, and these events from 313 00:18:53,076 --> 00:18:56,636 Speaker 1: Haward Washington's election and then his mayoralty are like forty 314 00:18:56,716 --> 00:19:00,716 Speaker 1: years ago. It's like so long ago, and it's interesting 315 00:19:00,716 --> 00:19:03,796 Speaker 1: to hear you talk about how it still resonates with you, 316 00:19:03,876 --> 00:19:07,396 Speaker 1: like like seeing this story feels part of your political 317 00:19:07,436 --> 00:19:10,836 Speaker 1: life and your life in Chicago. Yeah. You know, when 318 00:19:10,876 --> 00:19:16,156 Speaker 1: I think about myself in this context, um, sometimes I 319 00:19:16,196 --> 00:19:20,916 Speaker 1: think about these hiccups in history where something all of 320 00:19:20,956 --> 00:19:24,596 Speaker 1: a sudden happens and it can change the course of things. Um. 321 00:19:25,196 --> 00:19:29,956 Speaker 1: And when Harold Washington won and that then you know, 322 00:19:30,076 --> 00:19:33,076 Speaker 1: ended up in the Council Wars because nobody wanted you know, 323 00:19:33,116 --> 00:19:35,556 Speaker 1: the people that were already there and were entrenching power, 324 00:19:35,636 --> 00:19:39,356 Speaker 1: they didn't want things to change. Um. And for a 325 00:19:39,396 --> 00:19:41,716 Speaker 1: little bit of time, you know, for those four years 326 00:19:41,756 --> 00:19:45,996 Speaker 1: that Harold Washington fought back against Everdolia twenty nine, a 327 00:19:46,036 --> 00:19:49,396 Speaker 1: group of twenty nine white aldermen that oppose everything that 328 00:19:49,436 --> 00:19:52,196 Speaker 1: Harold Washington did. We can we stop on that for 329 00:19:52,236 --> 00:19:55,556 Speaker 1: a moment, Bresana, Like, how did you actually either experience 330 00:19:55,676 --> 00:19:58,596 Speaker 1: or learn about this? Like what was your what was 331 00:19:58,636 --> 00:20:01,756 Speaker 1: your pathway into the Harold Washington years? Was it like 332 00:20:01,836 --> 00:20:04,956 Speaker 1: political education? Just want to sit you down and say, hey, 333 00:20:04,996 --> 00:20:08,396 Speaker 1: this this is what happened. These are the lessons we learned. Well, 334 00:20:08,436 --> 00:20:13,036 Speaker 1: I'm a social and in order to be a socialist, 335 00:20:14,436 --> 00:20:17,596 Speaker 1: you get a dig into history, right, Like you have 336 00:20:17,756 --> 00:20:20,476 Speaker 1: to be able to understand what are the things that 337 00:20:20,556 --> 00:20:24,916 Speaker 1: historically have have and materially what the current reality is 338 00:20:24,956 --> 00:20:28,436 Speaker 1: built on. Right. Um. So I have always been very 339 00:20:28,436 --> 00:20:33,116 Speaker 1: curious about history, and I have studied, you know, black 340 00:20:33,156 --> 00:20:37,956 Speaker 1: power movements. I have studied, um how the Puerto Ricans, 341 00:20:37,956 --> 00:20:42,116 Speaker 1: for example, and colonized people have fought back in order 342 00:20:42,116 --> 00:20:46,676 Speaker 1: to be able to get power and build power, real power, right, 343 00:20:47,516 --> 00:20:51,156 Speaker 1: real people power, not the power that entrenched politicians get 344 00:20:51,276 --> 00:20:54,516 Speaker 1: from the like the original Rainbow Coalition kind of power, right, 345 00:20:54,716 --> 00:20:57,916 Speaker 1: the young lords and Chicago, the young patriots, the poor 346 00:20:57,956 --> 00:21:00,116 Speaker 1: whites on the on the North side Chicago. That's the 347 00:21:00,196 --> 00:21:04,796 Speaker 1: kind of history and socialism and grassroots organizing you're talking about. 348 00:21:04,836 --> 00:21:08,516 Speaker 1: So that inevitably leads you to Harold Washington. So a 349 00:21:08,556 --> 00:21:12,716 Speaker 1: lot of us have continued to build in Chicago with 350 00:21:12,796 --> 00:21:17,596 Speaker 1: the hope that we could create something like what Harold 351 00:21:17,596 --> 00:21:22,156 Speaker 1: Washington was able to create. And let's unpack that story, 352 00:21:22,196 --> 00:21:24,636 Speaker 1: your story of entering that a little bit, because even 353 00:21:24,636 --> 00:21:27,756 Speaker 1: in the documentary, there's this politician, as you said, part 354 00:21:27,796 --> 00:21:32,516 Speaker 1: of the Verdoliac twenty nine, these white politicians who are basically, 355 00:21:32,516 --> 00:21:35,556 Speaker 1: like you know, stopping all activity from happening in the 356 00:21:35,596 --> 00:21:38,316 Speaker 1: city council. One of them is this guy Dick mel 357 00:21:39,396 --> 00:21:44,036 Speaker 1: He's unapologetic. He chooses essentially race over his Democratic Party 358 00:21:44,996 --> 00:21:49,596 Speaker 1: and you know, white race. And he was the older 359 00:21:49,636 --> 00:21:52,836 Speaker 1: men in the ward where you now hold the office. 360 00:21:53,276 --> 00:21:56,956 Speaker 1: And what is your story with his family and how 361 00:21:56,956 --> 00:21:58,796 Speaker 1: did you come into office? Like can you tell us 362 00:21:58,836 --> 00:22:03,996 Speaker 1: that story? Yes? Absolutely, So in twenty fifteen, a teacher 363 00:22:04,076 --> 00:22:06,596 Speaker 1: from a community decided to run for the seat. We 364 00:22:06,716 --> 00:22:10,076 Speaker 1: supported him because he was running on platform for the 365 00:22:10,156 --> 00:22:14,276 Speaker 1: nine and he was also trying to interrupt the corruption 366 00:22:14,356 --> 00:22:17,276 Speaker 1: inside of city council. And when you think, like, what 367 00:22:17,396 --> 00:22:22,036 Speaker 1: is corruption, like people give them one another contracts or so. 368 00:22:22,036 --> 00:22:25,516 Speaker 1: So the biggest, the biggest power that aldermen have is sowning. 369 00:22:26,116 --> 00:22:29,556 Speaker 1: And if you have the power of soning, you can 370 00:22:29,756 --> 00:22:32,516 Speaker 1: get a lot of contributions from developers who want soning 371 00:22:32,596 --> 00:22:35,436 Speaker 1: changes to increase the worth of the property or to 372 00:22:35,476 --> 00:22:41,436 Speaker 1: create big developments. Right. So Dick mel was in office 373 00:22:41,516 --> 00:22:45,676 Speaker 1: for thirty eight years, and this is so Chicago. What 374 00:22:45,756 --> 00:22:48,316 Speaker 1: he does. This is so when he decided to retire, 375 00:22:48,476 --> 00:22:50,436 Speaker 1: he passed the seat on to his daughter. And you 376 00:22:50,516 --> 00:22:52,516 Speaker 1: might ask, oh, my god, how do people do that. 377 00:22:54,396 --> 00:22:56,116 Speaker 1: The way of people do that is that you have 378 00:22:56,116 --> 00:22:58,676 Speaker 1: a really good relationship with the mayor. You go to 379 00:22:58,716 --> 00:23:00,356 Speaker 1: the mayor and you say, I want you to open 380 00:23:00,436 --> 00:23:02,756 Speaker 1: my daughter, and the mayor is going to say, okay, 381 00:23:02,756 --> 00:23:04,756 Speaker 1: we gotta do like this little song. And then here 382 00:23:04,756 --> 00:23:06,756 Speaker 1: we're gonna say that we're going to interview candidates, and 383 00:23:06,756 --> 00:23:08,516 Speaker 1: then we're going to say that the most qualified candidate 384 00:23:08,636 --> 00:23:12,996 Speaker 1: is you're so, wait, I have a clarifying question because 385 00:23:13,036 --> 00:23:16,396 Speaker 1: I'm not in Chicago. So are you saying that this 386 00:23:16,476 --> 00:23:20,516 Speaker 1: is a retirement before an election, So it creates a 387 00:23:20,636 --> 00:23:22,996 Speaker 1: need to fill a seat. That's how it works. Then 388 00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:25,516 Speaker 1: it falls to the mayor to appoint somebody, Okay, and 389 00:23:25,556 --> 00:23:27,756 Speaker 1: then the person becomes an incumbent, and then more or 390 00:23:27,796 --> 00:23:30,516 Speaker 1: less everyone's like, oh, this person's great, let's vote for them. 391 00:23:30,636 --> 00:23:33,836 Speaker 1: It's a way to cement your power. So, Rosanna, you 392 00:23:33,876 --> 00:23:37,236 Speaker 1: actually run against Dick Mel's daughter, then yes, So he 393 00:23:37,316 --> 00:23:41,116 Speaker 1: retired halfway through his term. She of course carried his 394 00:23:41,196 --> 00:23:44,036 Speaker 1: last name, and then she served for two years and 395 00:23:44,036 --> 00:23:47,276 Speaker 1: then she had to run for reelection. That's when Timmy 396 00:23:47,316 --> 00:23:51,156 Speaker 1: and run. We run him in twenty fifteen. We were 397 00:23:51,196 --> 00:23:55,316 Speaker 1: seventeen votes away from a runoff with them, and we 398 00:23:55,516 --> 00:23:57,676 Speaker 1: had no idea of how to run an electoral campaign, 399 00:23:57,716 --> 00:24:00,196 Speaker 1: and we had no money. We were like, we're just 400 00:24:00,196 --> 00:24:03,836 Speaker 1: gonna do this and see what happens. And one thing 401 00:24:03,836 --> 00:24:06,596 Speaker 1: about socialism, and one thing about organizers, is that we 402 00:24:06,676 --> 00:24:08,676 Speaker 1: know how to organize. Like we might not know a 403 00:24:08,676 --> 00:24:11,516 Speaker 1: lot about electoral politics, we don't know how to organize okay, 404 00:24:11,556 --> 00:24:15,956 Speaker 1: and we were really motivated to change things right, and 405 00:24:17,036 --> 00:24:19,156 Speaker 1: what we decided to do was to start an IPO 406 00:24:19,196 --> 00:24:22,996 Speaker 1: and independent political organization, which were very popular during the 407 00:24:23,036 --> 00:24:27,076 Speaker 1: time of Harold Washington because of how entrenched the Chicago 408 00:24:27,116 --> 00:24:32,116 Speaker 1: machine was in the electoral the official electoral Democratic Party. 409 00:24:32,596 --> 00:24:35,396 Speaker 1: So you're actually using you're actually using a mechanism from 410 00:24:35,436 --> 00:24:38,916 Speaker 1: that path. That's actually the history is alive for you 411 00:24:38,956 --> 00:24:42,596 Speaker 1: in this present. That's really interesting. For three and a 412 00:24:42,636 --> 00:24:46,876 Speaker 1: half years, we spend all of our time organizing around housing, 413 00:24:47,276 --> 00:24:50,676 Speaker 1: around immigrant rights, and around education. We knocked on people 414 00:24:50,756 --> 00:24:53,796 Speaker 1: doors to talk about items that we put on ballots 415 00:24:53,916 --> 00:24:57,956 Speaker 1: like rent control or mortoriament charter schools, and we were 416 00:24:58,036 --> 00:25:02,156 Speaker 1: having conversations with people all the time. Right. Organized, organized, organized, 417 00:25:02,196 --> 00:25:06,316 Speaker 1: We organized with tenant unions, We organized to protect immigrants 418 00:25:06,316 --> 00:25:09,556 Speaker 1: and go to court with them, fund raisers for families 419 00:25:09,596 --> 00:25:12,516 Speaker 1: of immigrants that were being deported. We were doing all 420 00:25:12,556 --> 00:25:15,436 Speaker 1: of that work. Rosanna, I want to try to finish 421 00:25:15,516 --> 00:25:20,836 Speaker 1: that one question here, because like a true organizer and socialist, 422 00:25:21,356 --> 00:25:23,956 Speaker 1: you you talked about the collective and not about yourself. 423 00:25:24,356 --> 00:25:25,916 Speaker 1: And even when we asked you the question about how 424 00:25:25,916 --> 00:25:27,836 Speaker 1: you got into politics, you talked about the person you 425 00:25:27,916 --> 00:25:31,636 Speaker 1: ran before you why you? Then then you ran like 426 00:25:31,836 --> 00:25:33,756 Speaker 1: why did just like in a real you know, you 427 00:25:33,756 --> 00:25:35,796 Speaker 1: could say quickly like why did you want to become 428 00:25:35,836 --> 00:25:39,396 Speaker 1: older woman? And like why did you? So? So the 429 00:25:39,436 --> 00:25:42,436 Speaker 1: first answer I would say is that I didn't want to. 430 00:25:44,276 --> 00:25:48,156 Speaker 1: But when the time came to run for office, to 431 00:25:48,236 --> 00:25:53,556 Speaker 1: run somebody, it became evident that I was that it 432 00:25:53,596 --> 00:25:55,636 Speaker 1: was if it was not me, If I didn't say yes, 433 00:25:55,796 --> 00:25:59,236 Speaker 1: nobody was going to do it that had our values right. 434 00:25:59,956 --> 00:26:04,156 Speaker 1: So at that point I really wanted somebody to be 435 00:26:04,276 --> 00:26:08,116 Speaker 1: able to be on the seat and I and I 436 00:26:08,116 --> 00:26:11,876 Speaker 1: decided to say yeah, even though I was incredibly scared, 437 00:26:11,916 --> 00:26:14,316 Speaker 1: Like I ran, I was scared every day. I didn't 438 00:26:14,356 --> 00:26:16,236 Speaker 1: think that I was the right person to do it. 439 00:26:16,876 --> 00:26:19,196 Speaker 1: But now I know that I am the right person 440 00:26:19,236 --> 00:26:21,876 Speaker 1: to be to be on the seat. I absolutely am. 441 00:26:22,556 --> 00:26:24,436 Speaker 1: I want to unpack that a little bit because one 442 00:26:24,476 --> 00:26:26,836 Speaker 1: of the things that we're that I'm interested in, and 443 00:26:26,876 --> 00:26:29,156 Speaker 1: I know Ben and I are both curious about this, 444 00:26:29,636 --> 00:26:32,156 Speaker 1: So I'm interested. I don't even know what you're gonna say, 445 00:26:32,196 --> 00:26:34,876 Speaker 1: but I'm I'm interested that don't don't leave me out 446 00:26:34,876 --> 00:26:36,756 Speaker 1: of this. I'm part of it, well, you can speak. 447 00:26:36,876 --> 00:26:39,636 Speaker 1: You can speak for both of us, because I mean, listen, 448 00:26:40,556 --> 00:26:42,916 Speaker 1: you and I and Ben, the three of us are 449 00:26:42,956 --> 00:26:45,236 Speaker 1: a version of a rainbow coalition, and Ben and I 450 00:26:45,236 --> 00:26:49,156 Speaker 1: identify as progressives. But it seems like right now in 451 00:26:49,196 --> 00:26:51,836 Speaker 1: the country, in twenty twenty three, when I pick up 452 00:26:51,836 --> 00:26:55,916 Speaker 1: the newspaper, like, I'm reading that in California, significant number 453 00:26:55,956 --> 00:27:00,916 Speaker 1: of Latino voters struck down an affirmative action referendum. They said, 454 00:27:01,156 --> 00:27:03,756 Speaker 1: you know, we want to keep things as they are, 455 00:27:03,796 --> 00:27:06,996 Speaker 1: to ban affirmative action in California admissions. When I look 456 00:27:06,996 --> 00:27:10,396 Speaker 1: at Florida, it is obvious that a significant Hispanic and 457 00:27:10,476 --> 00:27:14,236 Speaker 1: Latino population supports Donald Trump. When I look at Nevada 458 00:27:14,236 --> 00:27:17,556 Speaker 1: and Arizona, I see a you know, a blue ripple 459 00:27:18,156 --> 00:27:21,956 Speaker 1: fighting against you know, a red wave, and it's winning 460 00:27:22,036 --> 00:27:25,236 Speaker 1: sometimes and it's a it's a toss up. So help 461 00:27:25,396 --> 00:27:29,516 Speaker 1: me understand. In Chicago on the ground, what is the 462 00:27:29,556 --> 00:27:33,756 Speaker 1: difference between like Latino voters who are moderate and centrist 463 00:27:33,756 --> 00:27:35,876 Speaker 1: it might even be Republican leaning in some of their 464 00:27:35,956 --> 00:27:42,076 Speaker 1: national politics, versus progressives who are committed to these issues. 465 00:27:42,076 --> 00:27:44,756 Speaker 1: I mean, you've just talked about rent control. A tenant 466 00:27:44,836 --> 00:27:47,476 Speaker 1: strikes I mean, I'm not hearing a lot of national 467 00:27:47,476 --> 00:27:50,836 Speaker 1: polling about those Latino voters. So tell us, help us 468 00:27:50,916 --> 00:27:53,596 Speaker 1: understand the difference between how you think of progressive politics 469 00:27:53,836 --> 00:27:56,236 Speaker 1: and how I'm hearing about Latino voters who are way 470 00:27:56,276 --> 00:27:58,796 Speaker 1: more moderate and centrist and kind of on the bubble 471 00:27:59,476 --> 00:28:01,996 Speaker 1: in terms of national politics. I think, I mean it's 472 00:28:01,996 --> 00:28:06,156 Speaker 1: a matter of context. Chicago is a place where we 473 00:28:06,316 --> 00:28:09,476 Speaker 1: organize a lot. It is never ending, and I think 474 00:28:10,196 --> 00:28:15,876 Speaker 1: we have gotten to a point here of organizing, very 475 00:28:15,916 --> 00:28:19,116 Speaker 1: successful organizing. I'm going to give you the best example 476 00:28:19,196 --> 00:28:22,716 Speaker 1: that I have. We at this point here in the 477 00:28:22,756 --> 00:28:25,876 Speaker 1: northwest side of Chicago, specifically the Northwest side of Chicago, 478 00:28:25,956 --> 00:28:30,396 Speaker 1: which is very heavily Latino, we have been able to 479 00:28:30,436 --> 00:28:35,556 Speaker 1: elect a block of around nine very progressive elected at 480 00:28:35,596 --> 00:28:39,396 Speaker 1: all levels of government. We have state reps, we have 481 00:28:39,476 --> 00:28:42,876 Speaker 1: state senators, all of us. I mean, we are Latinos 482 00:28:42,996 --> 00:28:46,556 Speaker 1: and we are very progressive, and we are making sure 483 00:28:46,596 --> 00:28:49,316 Speaker 1: that we are getting this message across. But it just 484 00:28:49,436 --> 00:28:53,356 Speaker 1: takes organizing. It takes knocking on doors, It takes organizing 485 00:28:53,436 --> 00:28:57,476 Speaker 1: people and ensuring that just like the Black Panthers and 486 00:28:57,556 --> 00:29:01,476 Speaker 1: the Young Lords organized with mutual aid and making sure 487 00:29:01,556 --> 00:29:06,356 Speaker 1: that people could see each other as allies. Right, we 488 00:29:06,436 --> 00:29:09,476 Speaker 1: are doing that here and it is showing results like 489 00:29:09,556 --> 00:29:13,076 Speaker 1: you can see it. Right when in the last election, 490 00:29:13,996 --> 00:29:16,316 Speaker 1: there was a very interesting dynamic here in the Northwest 491 00:29:16,316 --> 00:29:20,716 Speaker 1: Side because Delia Ramirez was running in a very progressive 492 00:29:20,716 --> 00:29:23,436 Speaker 1: platform and there was another Latino, Guilvijas, who is part 493 00:29:23,436 --> 00:29:25,756 Speaker 1: of City Council, that was also running for that seat. 494 00:29:26,076 --> 00:29:27,996 Speaker 1: He was running on tough on crimes though he was 495 00:29:28,076 --> 00:29:32,556 Speaker 1: running on a moderate platform, and they started calling Delia 496 00:29:32,676 --> 00:29:35,796 Speaker 1: defone Delia, and they sent so many mailers making her 497 00:29:35,876 --> 00:29:37,956 Speaker 1: look like she was like anti police and she just 498 00:29:37,996 --> 00:29:43,236 Speaker 1: wanted crime. She won in a landslide. A landslide, Yeah, 499 00:29:43,276 --> 00:29:45,556 Speaker 1: because we talked too much about Eric Adams and like 500 00:29:45,996 --> 00:29:49,636 Speaker 1: the consolidation of working class black voters around a tough 501 00:29:49,676 --> 00:29:52,156 Speaker 1: on crime agenda and a lot of you know, very 502 00:29:52,196 --> 00:29:56,196 Speaker 1: conservative ideas about how to run the city. And you're saying, 503 00:29:56,196 --> 00:29:58,956 Speaker 1: just the opposite is happening in at least this ward 504 00:29:58,996 --> 00:30:01,756 Speaker 1: of Chicago, in the Northwest Side as a whole, not 505 00:30:01,916 --> 00:30:06,756 Speaker 1: just my ward. Delia won. Delia won the suburbs. Delia 506 00:30:06,876 --> 00:30:11,996 Speaker 1: won the whole West Suburbs in her platform, which received 507 00:30:12,036 --> 00:30:16,916 Speaker 1: a lot of attacks as a defaunt platform right. So 508 00:30:16,996 --> 00:30:19,196 Speaker 1: we actually believe that we are making a lot of 509 00:30:19,276 --> 00:30:23,956 Speaker 1: way to progressive to progressive ideas in our communities, and 510 00:30:24,236 --> 00:30:27,956 Speaker 1: I think that people it is easy for people to 511 00:30:28,036 --> 00:30:31,596 Speaker 1: go right and to adopt right wing ideas when they 512 00:30:31,596 --> 00:30:35,676 Speaker 1: can't imagine anything else and you are presenting problems like crime, 513 00:30:36,116 --> 00:30:38,436 Speaker 1: but you don't have any other alternative, and you are 514 00:30:38,476 --> 00:30:41,276 Speaker 1: not engaging with people either at a level where people 515 00:30:41,356 --> 00:30:43,916 Speaker 1: feel like they're being hurt and that there's something for them. 516 00:30:44,836 --> 00:30:46,396 Speaker 1: We're going to take a break, but when we come 517 00:30:46,396 --> 00:30:49,116 Speaker 1: back from that break, we're going to talk about how 518 00:30:49,196 --> 00:30:53,076 Speaker 1: Chicago is or isn't a version of the future as 519 00:30:53,116 --> 00:30:56,236 Speaker 1: it has often been in the past, and the degree 520 00:30:56,236 --> 00:30:59,316 Speaker 1: to which we can teach a national audience what to 521 00:30:59,396 --> 00:31:01,596 Speaker 1: learn from what's happening in your ward and on the 522 00:31:01,636 --> 00:31:04,996 Speaker 1: Northwest side of Chicago about the future of a Rainbow Coalition. 523 00:31:05,036 --> 00:31:16,276 Speaker 1: We'll be right back, So, Rizanna, we've learned so much 524 00:31:16,316 --> 00:31:20,516 Speaker 1: about the effectiveness of organizing around key progressive issues and 525 00:31:20,596 --> 00:31:24,556 Speaker 1: really pushing back against the kind of representational politics that 526 00:31:24,876 --> 00:31:28,716 Speaker 1: so often cloud the actual needs of people rather than 527 00:31:28,796 --> 00:31:32,356 Speaker 1: there's a black or brown or an Asian in office, 528 00:31:32,716 --> 00:31:35,556 Speaker 1: and so I'm really curious, you know, do you think 529 00:31:35,796 --> 00:31:38,236 Speaker 1: right now what you're seeing on the ground in Chicago, 530 00:31:38,356 --> 00:31:42,556 Speaker 1: mix the Rainbow coalition that we've been talking about still viable. 531 00:31:42,596 --> 00:31:44,436 Speaker 1: Do you think this is something? And then I don't know, 532 00:31:44,716 --> 00:31:46,476 Speaker 1: I don't even know if you what you think about this? 533 00:31:46,556 --> 00:31:48,476 Speaker 1: Do you think this is something that we ought to 534 00:31:48,556 --> 00:31:51,156 Speaker 1: be talking a lot more about? Yeah, Khalil, I mean, 535 00:31:51,636 --> 00:31:53,876 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this a lot. We have a mayoral 536 00:31:53,916 --> 00:31:56,876 Speaker 1: election going on, but I'm also thinking about the demographics 537 00:31:56,876 --> 00:32:00,316 Speaker 1: in Chicago. So we were talking about Harold Washington. When 538 00:32:00,356 --> 00:32:04,556 Speaker 1: he was mayor, the Latino population was not that big. 539 00:32:04,756 --> 00:32:07,796 Speaker 1: It was like around fourteen percent or something, and we 540 00:32:07,836 --> 00:32:11,596 Speaker 1: had this huge flux, especially people from Mexico, over the 541 00:32:11,636 --> 00:32:14,476 Speaker 1: next you know, twenty thirty years. And now, at least 542 00:32:14,516 --> 00:32:17,676 Speaker 1: in theory, we have this beautifully diverse city of like 543 00:32:17,836 --> 00:32:22,356 Speaker 1: thirty percent Latino, forty five percent White, thirty percent Black, 544 00:32:22,396 --> 00:32:27,836 Speaker 1: and another sort of seven percent Asian. Now we're madly segregated, 545 00:32:27,876 --> 00:32:30,996 Speaker 1: so it doesn't feel crazy diverse, but but the total 546 00:32:31,076 --> 00:32:34,636 Speaker 1: makeup is this amazing thing. And that's probably true of cities, 547 00:32:35,076 --> 00:32:38,436 Speaker 1: you know, democratic cities all across the country. Chicago is 548 00:32:38,476 --> 00:32:41,796 Speaker 1: representative in that way of a rising Latino population and 549 00:32:41,836 --> 00:32:45,956 Speaker 1: sort of thinking about the jumble of these politics and 550 00:32:45,956 --> 00:32:48,396 Speaker 1: and like partly what we were talking about with Harold 551 00:32:48,396 --> 00:32:52,756 Speaker 1: Washington is sort of this white backlash to this progressive 552 00:32:52,796 --> 00:32:57,996 Speaker 1: movement and to this this you know, in interracial connections. 553 00:32:59,076 --> 00:33:02,036 Speaker 1: But I'm really interested in sort of like the the 554 00:33:02,196 --> 00:33:05,676 Speaker 1: also the black Latino divides that happened, and like to 555 00:33:05,796 --> 00:33:09,956 Speaker 1: think about how that's also taking shape in Chicago because certainly, 556 00:33:09,996 --> 00:33:12,796 Speaker 1: like you know, I think the black community in some 557 00:33:12,836 --> 00:33:15,756 Speaker 1: ways feels like they're losing out of power, you know, 558 00:33:15,876 --> 00:33:19,636 Speaker 1: but maybe Rosanna feels differently of seeing this on the ground, um, 559 00:33:19,676 --> 00:33:21,956 Speaker 1: and even seeing it in the city council which has 560 00:33:21,956 --> 00:33:26,196 Speaker 1: this you know, fifty aldermen, older people, alders, older women 561 00:33:26,196 --> 00:33:28,676 Speaker 1: and alder men, all of them. But but you know, 562 00:33:28,716 --> 00:33:31,716 Speaker 1: so so yeah, I think it's it is this. It 563 00:33:31,876 --> 00:33:34,796 Speaker 1: is this example of what's happening nationally here. I think 564 00:33:34,796 --> 00:33:36,876 Speaker 1: there's a lot of work to do to be able 565 00:33:36,916 --> 00:33:41,676 Speaker 1: to build, um, the same structures in black communities, and 566 00:33:41,676 --> 00:33:45,916 Speaker 1: it is very challenging right now. Um, we are in 567 00:33:45,916 --> 00:33:48,876 Speaker 1: the middle of this mayoral election and United Working Families, 568 00:33:48,876 --> 00:33:52,236 Speaker 1: which is our effort to create a workers Party um 569 00:33:52,396 --> 00:33:55,236 Speaker 1: in Chicago and the top of the ticket is Brandon 570 00:33:55,316 --> 00:33:58,876 Speaker 1: Johnson for for mayor, which I believe that he is 571 00:33:58,916 --> 00:34:01,956 Speaker 1: trying to build that rainbow coalition and Brandon's black just 572 00:34:02,316 --> 00:34:05,276 Speaker 1: even I know that from from national reporting. Again, yes, 573 00:34:05,556 --> 00:34:08,796 Speaker 1: so so here so the so what I am saying 574 00:34:08,916 --> 00:34:12,996 Speaker 1: is here in these Latino neighborhoods, right, the different organizations 575 00:34:12,996 --> 00:34:15,196 Speaker 1: that have been built around all of these other candidates 576 00:34:15,236 --> 00:34:18,236 Speaker 1: at different levels of office, this is something that we 577 00:34:18,276 --> 00:34:21,276 Speaker 1: haven't been able to build yet in black communities, and 578 00:34:21,316 --> 00:34:26,156 Speaker 1: because of segregation, right, it has been a very different reality. 579 00:34:26,596 --> 00:34:29,476 Speaker 1: Are you saying that when you say we, you mean 580 00:34:29,556 --> 00:34:32,276 Speaker 1: the party has not been effective on some of the 581 00:34:32,396 --> 00:34:34,996 Speaker 1: black wards and districts on the south and west sides 582 00:34:35,036 --> 00:34:36,916 Speaker 1: of Chicago. That's what you mean by the week? No, 583 00:34:37,356 --> 00:34:39,836 Speaker 1: what I mean is that what it means that those 584 00:34:39,876 --> 00:34:42,956 Speaker 1: efforts haven't gotten on their way. So can you give 585 00:34:42,996 --> 00:34:45,916 Speaker 1: an example of an organizing effort to get a program 586 00:34:45,916 --> 00:34:48,756 Speaker 1: in place or a policy that hasn't yet worked among 587 00:34:48,796 --> 00:34:51,876 Speaker 1: Black Chicagoans. One example of this is Treatment not Trauma 588 00:34:51,956 --> 00:34:53,956 Speaker 1: is a bill that I introduced in twenty twenty to 589 00:34:54,036 --> 00:34:58,516 Speaker 1: create a mental health response holistic mental health response in Chicago. 590 00:34:58,796 --> 00:35:01,156 Speaker 1: We put it on the ballot in the last election 591 00:35:01,236 --> 00:35:04,276 Speaker 1: in November. We were here in my ward thirty three, 592 00:35:04,356 --> 00:35:07,196 Speaker 1: and in two wards that are predominantly black, which are 593 00:35:07,196 --> 00:35:10,836 Speaker 1: the sixth Ward and the twentieth. People knocked on doors, 594 00:35:10,876 --> 00:35:13,476 Speaker 1: people have conversations. This is how we do it, right, Like, 595 00:35:13,516 --> 00:35:15,996 Speaker 1: we go to people, we talked about what are the 596 00:35:15,996 --> 00:35:18,356 Speaker 1: problems that we're having, Well, this is a possible solution. 597 00:35:18,876 --> 00:35:20,996 Speaker 1: How do we do this? But we haven't been doing 598 00:35:21,036 --> 00:35:24,076 Speaker 1: that necessarily in a lot of black communities here in 599 00:35:24,796 --> 00:35:28,396 Speaker 1: the north northwest Side. We started doing it, but we 600 00:35:28,436 --> 00:35:30,396 Speaker 1: haven't been able to go through that process there. And 601 00:35:30,436 --> 00:35:33,916 Speaker 1: I say we because this is everybody's responsibility, right, I 602 00:35:33,996 --> 00:35:37,756 Speaker 1: say we. I am in my community doing what I can, 603 00:35:38,156 --> 00:35:41,036 Speaker 1: but we haven't been able to have that level of 604 00:35:41,516 --> 00:35:45,396 Speaker 1: organization in this particular context. But we are on our 605 00:35:45,476 --> 00:35:49,316 Speaker 1: way to do that. Rosanna, I'm interested in this idea. 606 00:35:49,396 --> 00:35:53,476 Speaker 1: So you're endorsing a black progressive candidate in the mayoral election. 607 00:35:53,836 --> 00:35:58,676 Speaker 1: There's a very prominent Latino candidate as well, who actually 608 00:35:58,876 --> 00:36:03,156 Speaker 1: emerges from Harold Washington's coalition. We know Twee. Garcia, Yeah, 609 00:36:03,236 --> 00:36:05,756 Speaker 1: who I met a few years ago. It seemed like 610 00:36:05,756 --> 00:36:11,076 Speaker 1: a really lovely guy I got. I'm thinking about two 611 00:36:11,076 --> 00:36:14,676 Speaker 1: things here. One is is it controversial that you are 612 00:36:15,116 --> 00:36:17,396 Speaker 1: siding with a black progressive and not a Latino And 613 00:36:17,396 --> 00:36:20,956 Speaker 1: maybe you can explain sort of how your progressive politics 614 00:36:21,436 --> 00:36:26,876 Speaker 1: kind of supersedes racial politics. And then two like, say 615 00:36:26,876 --> 00:36:29,516 Speaker 1: you're knocking on doors and you go to an older 616 00:36:29,556 --> 00:36:33,316 Speaker 1: family in your ward and you know a Latino family 617 00:36:33,316 --> 00:36:36,236 Speaker 1: and their two week Garcia supporters, how do you convince them? 618 00:36:36,276 --> 00:36:38,956 Speaker 1: You're like, no, no, no, this this this black guy 619 00:36:39,116 --> 00:36:44,516 Speaker 1: who who actually has your interests? Brandon Johns Better Yeah, yeah, 620 00:36:45,076 --> 00:36:50,156 Speaker 1: Well those conversations, um usually start with an issue, right, 621 00:36:50,196 --> 00:36:52,676 Speaker 1: like what is the issue that you care about? And 622 00:36:52,756 --> 00:36:54,796 Speaker 1: it is not easy, And I would like to start 623 00:36:54,876 --> 00:36:58,836 Speaker 1: saying I have a lot of respect for Congressman Garcia. Um, 624 00:36:59,076 --> 00:37:02,556 Speaker 1: I know him personally. I did meet with him alongside 625 00:37:02,556 --> 00:37:06,796 Speaker 1: all of the Northwest side elected progressive Latino electeds. He 626 00:37:06,916 --> 00:37:08,796 Speaker 1: was not ready to commit to running when we met 627 00:37:08,836 --> 00:37:13,316 Speaker 1: with her, and Brandon was. And Brandon sat down with 628 00:37:13,396 --> 00:37:16,236 Speaker 1: us and we talked about all of the different things 629 00:37:16,236 --> 00:37:19,956 Speaker 1: that we needed, and he committed to fighting alongside us 630 00:37:19,996 --> 00:37:22,916 Speaker 1: for those things. So I am going to support the 631 00:37:23,036 --> 00:37:25,836 Speaker 1: person that is going to go too bad for the 632 00:37:25,836 --> 00:37:29,476 Speaker 1: progressive agenda that we have right so we couldn't commit 633 00:37:29,516 --> 00:37:31,196 Speaker 1: to it. At that point. He didn't even know if 634 00:37:31,196 --> 00:37:33,876 Speaker 1: he was running. I'm sorry, we have to run somebody 635 00:37:33,916 --> 00:37:36,236 Speaker 1: against my her life foot So this is what we're doing. 636 00:37:36,956 --> 00:37:39,196 Speaker 1: And I am very proud to be supporting Brandon just 637 00:37:39,276 --> 00:37:41,956 Speaker 1: so because I know what his history is a movement. 638 00:37:42,036 --> 00:37:44,316 Speaker 1: I know that he's a union person. I know that 639 00:37:45,596 --> 00:37:48,276 Speaker 1: I know where he has been and what he has 640 00:37:48,316 --> 00:37:52,356 Speaker 1: been doing, and I do think that it is important 641 00:37:52,396 --> 00:37:57,636 Speaker 1: for Latino communities to understand who is fighting in their 642 00:37:57,636 --> 00:37:59,996 Speaker 1: best interests, and I think Brandon is going to be 643 00:38:00,036 --> 00:38:03,596 Speaker 1: doing that. When I go into a household and we 644 00:38:03,676 --> 00:38:07,276 Speaker 1: talked about the issues at hand, I am very comfortable 645 00:38:07,316 --> 00:38:10,276 Speaker 1: saying Brandon has committed to treat me not trauma. Brandon 646 00:38:10,316 --> 00:38:12,036 Speaker 1: already committed to that, and I know that I'm going 647 00:38:12,116 --> 00:38:13,956 Speaker 1: to be able to count on him to deliver that. 648 00:38:14,036 --> 00:38:16,796 Speaker 1: I want to just sort of round this out with 649 00:38:17,236 --> 00:38:21,996 Speaker 1: an issue that I think is a third rail around 650 00:38:21,996 --> 00:38:25,876 Speaker 1: this question of coalition politics, and it certainly is in 651 00:38:25,996 --> 00:38:28,396 Speaker 1: New York City, it is in a lot of places. 652 00:38:28,476 --> 00:38:31,396 Speaker 1: So you keep talking about treatment not trauma, and I 653 00:38:31,436 --> 00:38:34,996 Speaker 1: want to understand like, how does that intersect with larger 654 00:38:35,036 --> 00:38:38,316 Speaker 1: debate about Chicago crime. Just like many other cities and 655 00:38:38,356 --> 00:38:40,956 Speaker 1: in a lot of other places, it's most certainly derailed 656 00:38:41,596 --> 00:38:46,636 Speaker 1: progressive ideas. It has derailed the attractiveness of progressive politicians 657 00:38:46,676 --> 00:38:50,956 Speaker 1: who have been saddled with the stigma of hating police 658 00:38:50,956 --> 00:38:54,676 Speaker 1: officers through the quote unquote defund movement. And it seems 659 00:38:54,716 --> 00:38:57,596 Speaker 1: like this isn't this doesn't animate any of the people 660 00:38:57,596 --> 00:38:59,596 Speaker 1: that you're talking to. Do I have that right? And 661 00:38:59,596 --> 00:39:03,076 Speaker 1: if so, how is that possible? Well, that's what I 662 00:39:03,116 --> 00:39:05,276 Speaker 1: was just talking about. With the election of the Lea 663 00:39:05,356 --> 00:39:08,836 Speaker 1: Ramirez and Anthony Gasawa and all of the slate that 664 00:39:08,916 --> 00:39:12,876 Speaker 1: just swan like they were attacked. Literally everybody was saying 665 00:39:13,036 --> 00:39:17,356 Speaker 1: everybody against them was saying, these people are defaunt the 666 00:39:17,436 --> 00:39:24,396 Speaker 1: opposition got money from the FOP, like, yeah, seventeen thousand 667 00:39:24,396 --> 00:39:27,036 Speaker 1: dollars from the FOP, And what happened was that it's 668 00:39:27,076 --> 00:39:30,516 Speaker 1: backfired because those values do not belong in our communities. 669 00:39:30,516 --> 00:39:32,796 Speaker 1: And we called it out. I was in, you are 670 00:39:32,876 --> 00:39:37,076 Speaker 1: taking money from people who are you know, like the 671 00:39:37,396 --> 00:39:43,196 Speaker 1: president of the FOP in Chicago is a terrible human being. 672 00:39:43,596 --> 00:39:48,316 Speaker 1: His racist He has made so many islamophobic remarks. He 673 00:39:48,476 --> 00:39:51,236 Speaker 1: was okay with the riots in the in the capital 674 00:39:51,756 --> 00:39:54,556 Speaker 1: and January six he said he said the only the 675 00:39:54,596 --> 00:39:57,476 Speaker 1: only law he saw broken was trespassing. That was his 676 00:39:57,596 --> 00:40:00,756 Speaker 1: quote at the January six So so I'm sorry, we 677 00:40:00,796 --> 00:40:02,956 Speaker 1: are not going to stand by those values, right, and 678 00:40:03,316 --> 00:40:05,636 Speaker 1: I think that we need to speak clearly about those things, 679 00:40:05,636 --> 00:40:09,236 Speaker 1: but also speak very clearly as well about what is 680 00:40:09,236 --> 00:40:11,796 Speaker 1: that we imagine, right, because people need to be able 681 00:40:11,796 --> 00:40:14,636 Speaker 1: to imagine how is it that you're talking about safety 682 00:40:14,636 --> 00:40:15,996 Speaker 1: and what are the concrete things that you're going to 683 00:40:16,076 --> 00:40:19,596 Speaker 1: do and treatmental trauma, for example, is trying to reduce 684 00:40:19,636 --> 00:40:21,556 Speaker 1: the amount of calls that are going through nine on 685 00:40:21,676 --> 00:40:25,676 Speaker 1: one by developing other approaches that are well, like way 686 00:40:25,756 --> 00:40:30,476 Speaker 1: better and an evidence base to handle things that are 687 00:40:30,596 --> 00:40:33,676 Speaker 1: public health based, to handle things that are human service 688 00:40:33,716 --> 00:40:38,916 Speaker 1: social service based. So expanding the care pilot that we 689 00:40:39,036 --> 00:40:41,316 Speaker 1: fought for so that you don't have to send police 690 00:40:41,316 --> 00:40:44,996 Speaker 1: to deal with mental health emergencies, creating walking crisis centers 691 00:40:44,996 --> 00:40:47,076 Speaker 1: that are open twenty four hours so that you have 692 00:40:47,116 --> 00:40:49,156 Speaker 1: a place to transport right, you don't have to go 693 00:40:49,236 --> 00:40:52,316 Speaker 1: to the police station or to the ear making sure 694 00:40:52,356 --> 00:40:56,076 Speaker 1: that you have I like to call them clinicians instead 695 00:40:56,076 --> 00:40:59,956 Speaker 1: of talking about cops all the time. You actually need 696 00:41:00,596 --> 00:41:03,636 Speaker 1: social workers that are going to go and are going 697 00:41:03,676 --> 00:41:06,716 Speaker 1: to monitor the people and places that are most likely 698 00:41:06,756 --> 00:41:09,116 Speaker 1: to go into crisis because you already know what's happened 699 00:41:09,116 --> 00:41:12,356 Speaker 1: and there are where those people are, build trust, monitor them, 700 00:41:12,436 --> 00:41:15,676 Speaker 1: figure out how you can prevent crisis. Right. It is 701 00:41:15,716 --> 00:41:18,876 Speaker 1: actually not like rocket science, and this is working in 702 00:41:18,916 --> 00:41:22,836 Speaker 1: other cities as well. So when I hear that somebody 703 00:41:22,996 --> 00:41:26,196 Speaker 1: is behind the treatmental trauma approach, wish let me tell you. 704 00:41:27,236 --> 00:41:30,236 Speaker 1: In the last several minnear old debates, treatment no trauma 705 00:41:30,316 --> 00:41:33,476 Speaker 1: has been in everybody's mouth. Everybody's talking about treatment trauma. 706 00:41:33,516 --> 00:41:35,796 Speaker 1: When I first introduced that, nobody wants to hear anything 707 00:41:35,916 --> 00:41:39,556 Speaker 1: about it. But now we do need to be thinking 708 00:41:39,596 --> 00:41:42,436 Speaker 1: about safety in a different way and use the right 709 00:41:42,516 --> 00:41:46,156 Speaker 1: and proper tools to address each social issue. And what 710 00:41:46,236 --> 00:41:49,316 Speaker 1: we're doing of throwing police that everything is just not working. 711 00:41:49,796 --> 00:41:52,316 Speaker 1: I think this is really really helpful to me as 712 00:41:52,356 --> 00:41:55,116 Speaker 1: an outsider, and I'm curious to Ben, so Ben, I 713 00:41:55,156 --> 00:41:58,436 Speaker 1: haven't hearing all these policies. Yeah yeah, but I haven't 714 00:41:58,476 --> 00:42:01,476 Speaker 1: heard you mentioned this, So I mean, how if you're 715 00:42:01,516 --> 00:42:05,276 Speaker 1: hearing much of this for the first time, then, like, 716 00:42:06,196 --> 00:42:08,556 Speaker 1: does Lloyd Lightfoot have a chance in hell? Like how 717 00:42:08,596 --> 00:42:12,996 Speaker 1: the square her as current mayor with a gigantic city 718 00:42:13,076 --> 00:42:16,436 Speaker 1: of millions of black people as well as whites, we 719 00:42:16,476 --> 00:42:18,716 Speaker 1: have you know, we've been talked about the white population 720 00:42:18,756 --> 00:42:22,036 Speaker 1: that much, and so like, Rosanna is making a whole 721 00:42:22,076 --> 00:42:24,916 Speaker 1: hell of a lot of sense here. But yeah, you're 722 00:42:24,956 --> 00:42:28,556 Speaker 1: saying that her policies and politics are your politics and policies, 723 00:42:28,516 --> 00:42:31,276 Speaker 1: but not just my politics. They're they're working on the 724 00:42:31,316 --> 00:42:35,516 Speaker 1: ground in local politics. And yet I have there's no 725 00:42:35,596 --> 00:42:38,396 Speaker 1: news reporting on this. They mean, So I'm just trying 726 00:42:38,436 --> 00:42:41,036 Speaker 1: to figure out, like is Lightfoot consolidating support in the 727 00:42:41,076 --> 00:42:44,036 Speaker 1: same way that an Eric Items or Joe Biden has 728 00:42:44,076 --> 00:42:46,916 Speaker 1: that it kind of just turns what she's talking about 729 00:42:47,156 --> 00:42:50,676 Speaker 1: into something unrealistic. Is she hiding the fact that these 730 00:42:50,676 --> 00:42:52,756 Speaker 1: programs are working? Is she taking credit for them? Like 731 00:42:52,796 --> 00:42:56,916 Speaker 1: what's going on? The programs don't exist yet, there's a bill. 732 00:42:57,196 --> 00:42:59,876 Speaker 1: There is a little pilot that we have to push 733 00:42:59,916 --> 00:43:02,676 Speaker 1: her to create, but it is only one team and 734 00:43:02,716 --> 00:43:05,516 Speaker 1: now it will probably expand to two, but not enough 735 00:43:05,596 --> 00:43:08,356 Speaker 1: to be able to even have enough data to make 736 00:43:08,396 --> 00:43:12,276 Speaker 1: decisions so the problem has been that she has resisted 737 00:43:12,356 --> 00:43:15,716 Speaker 1: this approaches the whole time because she has stood by 738 00:43:15,876 --> 00:43:19,076 Speaker 1: the tough on crime narrative. So what we are trying 739 00:43:19,116 --> 00:43:20,916 Speaker 1: to do now is and it's one of the reasons 740 00:43:20,916 --> 00:43:23,276 Speaker 1: why treatment of trauma is now being used by every 741 00:43:23,276 --> 00:43:26,876 Speaker 1: other my rural candidate because they understand that she has 742 00:43:26,956 --> 00:43:32,476 Speaker 1: resisted this, that she has blocked this, and that they 743 00:43:32,636 --> 00:43:36,676 Speaker 1: need to signal right that they are open to other approaches, 744 00:43:36,676 --> 00:43:40,916 Speaker 1: that they are open to doing things in a different way. 745 00:43:41,516 --> 00:43:44,836 Speaker 1: So I feel really good about it because I didn't 746 00:43:44,876 --> 00:43:48,556 Speaker 1: really think that we would be in this place at 747 00:43:48,596 --> 00:43:51,276 Speaker 1: the end of the term. And I have fought so 748 00:43:51,356 --> 00:43:54,556 Speaker 1: hard and we have done everything that we can to 749 00:43:55,116 --> 00:43:57,556 Speaker 1: make sure that the public knows about this, Like putting 750 00:43:57,556 --> 00:44:00,676 Speaker 1: it in the ballot was great. We were able to 751 00:44:00,716 --> 00:44:03,916 Speaker 1: have so many conversations with people and let them know 752 00:44:03,956 --> 00:44:07,036 Speaker 1: this is what we're trying to do, you know. Yeahs 753 00:44:07,076 --> 00:44:09,796 Speaker 1: And I mean one of the things that so great 754 00:44:09,836 --> 00:44:11,596 Speaker 1: about hearing this and we wanted to learn from you. 755 00:44:11,636 --> 00:44:14,396 Speaker 1: It's when I when I saw you speak at that forum, 756 00:44:14,436 --> 00:44:15,836 Speaker 1: I was like, this is somebody I want to talk 757 00:44:15,836 --> 00:44:18,156 Speaker 1: to more and learn from because you were talking about 758 00:44:18,236 --> 00:44:22,276 Speaker 1: these progressive politics on the ground and organizing and and 759 00:44:22,356 --> 00:44:26,076 Speaker 1: I actually personally believe in these policies that you're talking about. 760 00:44:26,476 --> 00:44:28,796 Speaker 1: And this is partly an answer to what you said, Khalil, Like, 761 00:44:29,116 --> 00:44:32,276 Speaker 1: this is a big ass city. So you know, Rosanna 762 00:44:32,356 --> 00:44:36,396 Speaker 1: is talking about finding many like minded people, and there 763 00:44:36,396 --> 00:44:38,276 Speaker 1: are a lot of, you know, areas of the city 764 00:44:38,276 --> 00:44:41,756 Speaker 1: where people feel very differently and their politics don't align 765 00:44:41,836 --> 00:44:45,156 Speaker 1: with this, but the margins are pretty slim, even around 766 00:44:45,156 --> 00:44:48,756 Speaker 1: things like crime and so on. But yeah, you're talking 767 00:44:48,796 --> 00:44:52,316 Speaker 1: about how many of these issues cross racial lines, and 768 00:44:52,316 --> 00:44:55,596 Speaker 1: in this city where it's so often zero, some politics 769 00:44:55,636 --> 00:45:01,356 Speaker 1: around race that's really powerful and encouraging. I'm gonna ask 770 00:45:01,356 --> 00:45:03,836 Speaker 1: you maybe a way to close this conversation out a 771 00:45:03,836 --> 00:45:06,836 Speaker 1: more playful question, which is, like we watches Harold Washington 772 00:45:06,916 --> 00:45:11,676 Speaker 1: documentary Punch nine, and we saw again these council wars 773 00:45:11,756 --> 00:45:15,036 Speaker 1: where the essentially twenty nine white older men were fighting 774 00:45:15,036 --> 00:45:17,436 Speaker 1: with the other older men who were more progressive and 775 00:45:17,636 --> 00:45:20,476 Speaker 1: didn't want to let any legislation pass, and it just 776 00:45:20,476 --> 00:45:24,676 Speaker 1: seemed like madness in there, screaming and yelling. Tell us 777 00:45:24,676 --> 00:45:27,556 Speaker 1: a story about being in city council where it felt, 778 00:45:27,796 --> 00:45:31,276 Speaker 1: if not a war at least like, you know, a skirmish. 779 00:45:33,076 --> 00:45:36,796 Speaker 1: We have had several of those over the time that 780 00:45:36,876 --> 00:45:39,996 Speaker 1: I have been there. Not long ago, there was a 781 00:45:41,476 --> 00:45:43,516 Speaker 1: there was a discussion that we had our own curfews 782 00:45:43,556 --> 00:45:46,276 Speaker 1: because there was a shooting in Millennium Park and a 783 00:45:46,396 --> 00:45:51,036 Speaker 1: kid got killed. And it's always, um, you know, like reactive, 784 00:45:51,236 --> 00:45:54,196 Speaker 1: like we never stopped to think, what is a sustainable 785 00:45:54,236 --> 00:45:58,476 Speaker 1: way that addresses the root cause of things. So me 786 00:45:58,916 --> 00:46:02,636 Speaker 1: and Carlos Ramirez Rosa, we went on God a bunch 787 00:46:02,676 --> 00:46:06,236 Speaker 1: of studies about curfews, right, um, Carlos, me and Matt Martin, 788 00:46:06,636 --> 00:46:08,876 Speaker 1: and we printed them out and we put them on 789 00:46:08,956 --> 00:46:14,356 Speaker 1: everybody's desk, trying to get them to at least for once, 790 00:46:14,516 --> 00:46:17,356 Speaker 1: do some evidence based legislation because it was ane yar 791 00:46:17,476 --> 00:46:21,716 Speaker 1: reaction to to the you would not believe like how 792 00:46:21,796 --> 00:46:25,116 Speaker 1: crazy the conversation got. We were talking about you know, 793 00:46:25,556 --> 00:46:31,796 Speaker 1: studies and and and evidence, and people started yelling at 794 00:46:31,916 --> 00:46:34,676 Speaker 1: us that we didn't know how to raise children, that 795 00:46:34,796 --> 00:46:37,476 Speaker 1: they always knew where their children were when they were 796 00:46:37,516 --> 00:46:40,476 Speaker 1: growing up. Somebody said, like the end of the conversation 797 00:46:40,676 --> 00:46:44,196 Speaker 1: was one of my colleagues saying, um, my grandma used 798 00:46:44,196 --> 00:46:47,556 Speaker 1: to say that after ten PM, the only thing opened 799 00:46:47,556 --> 00:46:52,236 Speaker 1: our liqueur stores and legs, and I'm there with my 800 00:46:52,236 --> 00:46:58,636 Speaker 1: my abstract. I just gave you all of this evidence 801 00:46:58,916 --> 00:47:02,436 Speaker 1: based information and this is what you have to add 802 00:47:02,476 --> 00:47:06,836 Speaker 1: to the conversation. Um, it gets crazy in there, it 803 00:47:06,876 --> 00:47:11,836 Speaker 1: gets really crazy. Well, listen, I think that the jury 804 00:47:11,916 --> 00:47:15,076 Speaker 1: is probably still out as to whether the rainbow coalition 805 00:47:15,156 --> 00:47:18,236 Speaker 1: has legs nationally. I know that, you know, Obama sort 806 00:47:18,276 --> 00:47:22,036 Speaker 1: of represented a kind of rainbow coalition nationally demographic that 807 00:47:22,116 --> 00:47:25,756 Speaker 1: was really just purely representational and symbolic, meaning that people 808 00:47:25,796 --> 00:47:27,836 Speaker 1: of color voted for him and they made the difference. 809 00:47:27,876 --> 00:47:30,036 Speaker 1: And it seems to me the Democratic Party nationally is 810 00:47:30,036 --> 00:47:33,476 Speaker 1: stuck on this issue. But listening to you as a 811 00:47:33,636 --> 00:47:36,556 Speaker 1: you know, I think that there's a lot of hope 812 00:47:36,956 --> 00:47:41,236 Speaker 1: to be embraced around how local organizing still matters. It 813 00:47:41,316 --> 00:47:44,996 Speaker 1: certainly mattered in the sixties, it mattered during Harold Washington's day, 814 00:47:45,156 --> 00:47:47,676 Speaker 1: and as you've just shared with us today, it matters now. 815 00:47:48,036 --> 00:47:50,076 Speaker 1: So folks listening, we got to get out there, We 816 00:47:50,076 --> 00:47:51,716 Speaker 1: got to knock on doors, We got to talk about 817 00:47:51,716 --> 00:47:54,556 Speaker 1: issues not about the color of people's skin. Although a 818 00:47:54,556 --> 00:47:56,796 Speaker 1: lot of people of color suffer the most from these issues, 819 00:47:56,836 --> 00:47:58,916 Speaker 1: so they certainly should be at the table in terms 820 00:47:58,916 --> 00:48:01,116 Speaker 1: of decision making and power. So I want to thank 821 00:48:01,156 --> 00:48:03,396 Speaker 1: you so much for being on our show today. Thank 822 00:48:03,396 --> 00:48:05,196 Speaker 1: you so much for having me so much fun talking 823 00:48:05,196 --> 00:48:08,396 Speaker 1: to you. I hope to be back. Yeah, And also, listeners, 824 00:48:08,356 --> 00:48:10,396 Speaker 1: you've got to answer the door when somebody comes knocking. 825 00:48:10,516 --> 00:48:11,796 Speaker 1: It's not just that you got to knock at it. 826 00:48:11,956 --> 00:48:13,996 Speaker 1: You got you gotta listen to folks like Rosanna and 827 00:48:14,236 --> 00:48:17,116 Speaker 1: hear what they have to say, especially because it's called outside. 828 00:48:17,196 --> 00:48:22,156 Speaker 1: Let us in and give us super cool. Yeah. Thanks 829 00:48:22,156 --> 00:48:24,996 Speaker 1: so yeah, and good luck with your own re election. 830 00:48:25,036 --> 00:48:27,116 Speaker 1: With good luck with your own re election. May thank 831 00:48:27,156 --> 00:48:39,156 Speaker 1: you the mayor race. Take care. Oh man, that was 832 00:48:39,196 --> 00:48:41,836 Speaker 1: a really great conversation. And I have to say, like 833 00:48:41,956 --> 00:48:44,476 Speaker 1: something that really jumped out at me when she was 834 00:48:44,516 --> 00:48:47,916 Speaker 1: talking was like when she just so forthrightly said I'm 835 00:48:47,956 --> 00:48:49,916 Speaker 1: a socialist, Like you don't hear that every day? Of that? 836 00:48:50,236 --> 00:48:52,596 Speaker 1: You know, you don't hear that every day? Don't hear that? eACT. 837 00:48:52,796 --> 00:48:56,236 Speaker 1: Probably if we in another conversation with her, that's all 838 00:48:56,276 --> 00:48:58,676 Speaker 1: we would talk about. Unpack that. Please tell us everything 839 00:48:58,756 --> 00:49:00,036 Speaker 1: that you mean by that. How did you come up 840 00:49:00,076 --> 00:49:03,036 Speaker 1: with that? Is what's your response when people say that. Yeah. 841 00:49:03,316 --> 00:49:05,756 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I think about is 842 00:49:06,236 --> 00:49:09,756 Speaker 1: when she said that socialist study history, and she's like, yeah, 843 00:49:09,796 --> 00:49:12,436 Speaker 1: because that's how we learned about the Black Power movement. 844 00:49:12,476 --> 00:49:14,636 Speaker 1: And man, I could not help but think like, oh 845 00:49:14,676 --> 00:49:17,556 Speaker 1: my god, Ron de Santis, the governor of Florida, is 846 00:49:17,596 --> 00:49:21,716 Speaker 1: exactly right to be afraid of black studies because if people, 847 00:49:21,916 --> 00:49:26,076 Speaker 1: young people like Rossana learned this history, it's hied to 848 00:49:26,236 --> 00:49:29,756 Speaker 1: run for office, organize people door to door, run on 849 00:49:29,796 --> 00:49:32,916 Speaker 1: a platform that is about values, about equity, a word 850 00:49:32,956 --> 00:49:36,276 Speaker 1: that's nearly been banned in the state of Florida right now. 851 00:49:36,636 --> 00:49:39,796 Speaker 1: Then you actually get a different country, you get a 852 00:49:39,796 --> 00:49:44,076 Speaker 1: different city, you get a different politics. And even her 853 00:49:44,516 --> 00:49:49,236 Speaker 1: studying Harold Washington, she's actually learning strategies directly from Harold 854 00:49:49,236 --> 00:49:54,556 Speaker 1: Washington how outsiders outside the political power structure developed their 855 00:49:54,596 --> 00:50:00,196 Speaker 1: own independent political organizations to then get power. This is 856 00:50:00,196 --> 00:50:03,516 Speaker 1: the lesson that she has studied and learned and that 857 00:50:03,596 --> 00:50:06,156 Speaker 1: she's trying to like to make come to life again 858 00:50:06,196 --> 00:50:10,356 Speaker 1: in the present. Yeah. Yeah, so we learned a and 859 00:50:11,156 --> 00:50:17,876 Speaker 1: black studies. Yes. Man, See see here we wear a 860 00:50:17,996 --> 00:50:22,956 Speaker 1: rainbow called coalition, and now it's the glue that advids 861 00:50:23,036 --> 00:50:25,476 Speaker 1: it all together. You know, it's the glue. It's it 862 00:50:25,556 --> 00:50:28,196 Speaker 1: makes it all work. The rainbow comes together. All right, man, 863 00:50:28,356 --> 00:50:37,796 Speaker 1: all right, love you, Love you too. Some of My 864 00:50:37,836 --> 00:50:41,156 Speaker 1: Best Friends Are is a production of Pushkin Industries. The 865 00:50:41,236 --> 00:50:44,396 Speaker 1: show is written and hosted by me Khalil, Gibron Mohammed 866 00:50:44,516 --> 00:50:47,756 Speaker 1: and my best friend Ben Austin. It's produced by Jonasanti 867 00:50:48,036 --> 00:50:52,196 Speaker 1: and Lucy Sullivan. Our editor is Sarah Knicks, our engineer 868 00:50:52,356 --> 00:50:58,076 Speaker 1: is Amanda ka Wang, and our managing producer is Constanza Gallardo. 869 00:50:58,716 --> 00:51:03,116 Speaker 1: At Pushkin thanks to Leitao Mulad, Julia Barton, Heather Faine, 870 00:51:03,516 --> 00:51:09,316 Speaker 1: Carly Migliori, John Schnars, Greta Khne, and Jacob Weissberg. Theme 871 00:51:09,396 --> 00:51:14,076 Speaker 1: song Little Lily is by fellow chicagoan the Brilliant Avery R. Young, 872 00:51:14,396 --> 00:51:17,276 Speaker 1: from his album Tubman. You definitely want to check out 873 00:51:17,276 --> 00:51:20,636 Speaker 1: his music at his website Avery R. Young dot com. 874 00:51:20,716 --> 00:51:24,316 Speaker 1: You can find Pushkin on all social platforms at pushkin pods, 875 00:51:24,636 --> 00:51:27,236 Speaker 1: and you can sign up for our newsletter at pushkin 876 00:51:27,356 --> 00:51:31,116 Speaker 1: dot fm. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the 877 00:51:31,236 --> 00:51:35,236 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to listen 878 00:51:35,276 --> 00:51:37,676 Speaker 1: and if you like our show, please give us a 879 00:51:37,676 --> 00:51:40,316 Speaker 1: five star rating and a review and listen. Even if 880 00:51:40,316 --> 00:51:41,956 Speaker 1: you don't like it, give it a five star rating 881 00:51:41,956 --> 00:51:44,836 Speaker 1: and a review, and please tell all of your best 882 00:51:44,876 --> 00:52:01,876 Speaker 1: friends about it. Thank you. You and I have this 883 00:52:01,916 --> 00:52:05,596 Speaker 1: funny like literary joke right that we love Ralph Ellison 884 00:52:05,876 --> 00:52:09,476 Speaker 1: right and rebel passage in Ralph Ellison when and the 885 00:52:09,556 --> 00:52:13,676 Speaker 1: protagonist is working at liberty white white, right, the whitest white, 886 00:52:13,876 --> 00:52:18,396 Speaker 1: The whitest white is made up by black dope, meaning 887 00:52:18,476 --> 00:52:21,316 Speaker 1: this chemical substance of black that is dropped into the 888 00:52:21,316 --> 00:52:23,956 Speaker 1: paint to make it as white as white. So it's 889 00:52:23,996 --> 00:52:26,556 Speaker 1: it's a it's a brilliant chapter. It's a brilliant part 890 00:52:26,596 --> 00:52:28,276 Speaker 1: of that brilliant book. I'm with you,