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Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph

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Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. The thirty seven year old mother

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Speaker 1: of six who just gave birth to twin daughters about

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Speaker 1: eight weeks ago, was returning home around midnight after visiting

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Speaker 1: the babies at a hospital when she was tragically killed

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Speaker 1: and a suspected d u I crash that night. I

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Speaker 1: knew she was on her way home, and when she

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Speaker 1: wasn't home when I thought she should be home, I

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Speaker 1: got worried. Investigators are still awaiting toxicology results, but say

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Speaker 1: they suspect a twenty one year old female driver may

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Speaker 1: have been impaired and slammed head on into Evans's car

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Speaker 1: after losing control while side swiping another vehicle. We had

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Speaker 1: people here when I told the kids that their mom

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Speaker 1: was gone, and that was really important because every kid

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Speaker 1: needed a hug, and I could only really hug one

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Speaker 1: at a time. A young mother was on her way

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Speaker 1: home from visiting her premature twin daughters still in the hospital.

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Speaker 1: She was heading home to her other four children to

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Speaker 1: take care of them when tragedy strikes. A drunk Kim

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Speaker 1: Kardashian look alike enters the scene and now mommy is dead.

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Speaker 1: I Meancy Grace. This is Crime Stories and we want justice.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now. Dr Chloe Carmichael, psychologist and founder

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Speaker 1: of Anxiety tools dot Com. Also with me, Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Drew Nelson, and Alan Duke joining me from

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Speaker 1: l A. Drew Nelson, I want to start at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: What happened years old? She I. We suppose she's been

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Speaker 1: out drinking or who knows what she'd been doing. What

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Speaker 1: we do know is that her blood alcohol content level

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Speaker 1: point to one. Now the legal limit is point zero eight.

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Speaker 1: That's about equivalent of one beer, almost three times over

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Speaker 1: the legal three times the legal limit. And she goes

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Speaker 1: out driving, she loses control over car. Women. Not only

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Speaker 1: does she lose control, Drew Nelson, you're right about that,

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Speaker 1: she actually jumps the central median. That's how bad she's

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Speaker 1: out of control. I mean, Alan, do true. I may

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Speaker 1: have run into a curb here and there, but jumping

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Speaker 1: the median, I don't mean when you find out you're

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Speaker 1: going the wrong way and you secretly get over the

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Speaker 1: media a little bit like maybe you know six inch tall.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about a big concrete median design specifically, so

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Speaker 1: this exact thing wouldn't happen. She jumps the media alan,

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Speaker 1: that's how drunk she is, right across the center medium.

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Speaker 1: This is Golden Valley Road near Santa Clarita. This is

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Speaker 1: just maybe fifteen miles from where I'm sitting right now.

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Speaker 1: You know that's a huge median. It's there for a

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Speaker 1: reason to stop exactly this type of crash from occur,

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Speaker 1: you know, typically, Dr Chloe. I don't know what kind

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Speaker 1: of driver you are. I know you're a premier psychologist,

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Speaker 1: but you know, when you you know, you tap into

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Speaker 1: something like you back and you know immediately and you

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Speaker 1: veer away or stop your car. But this woman was

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Speaker 1: so out of control, this Kim Kardashian look about. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not even going to comment on the sucked in cheeks.

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Speaker 1: You know how when you take a self you go

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Speaker 1: and you know, do a power I'm trying to do

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Speaker 1: it right now so you can hear it. But it's

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Speaker 1: like all sucked in with a giant implanted lips, the

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Speaker 1: puffed up trout pout that the hair parted down the middle,

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Speaker 1: long black Morticia looking hair. She's got the whole Kardashian

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Speaker 1: thing down pat except for the driver that would have

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Speaker 1: avoided this, this this kind of a crash. Dr Chloe,

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Speaker 1: when you're so out of your gored you jump over

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Speaker 1: a concrete median into oncoming traffic. What's that telling you, doctor, Well, obviously, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: it's somebody who is completely inebriated, you know, beyond their

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Speaker 1: capacity to meet good decisions. But of course she actually

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Speaker 1: did make the decision to put alcohol into her body,

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Speaker 1: so I believe that she needs to be held accountable.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now is Cheryl McCullum, not only director

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Speaker 1: of the Coal Case Institute, but former president of Mothers

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Speaker 1: Against Drunk Driving Georgia. Cheryl, you know this fact has

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Speaker 1: never escaped me since you told me this many years ago.

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Speaker 1: When a drunk driver is caught one time how many times?

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Speaker 1: That is not the first time they've driven drunk. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you're right. They've driven on average eleven times intoxicated before

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Speaker 1: their stopped the first time. So this is a habit

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Speaker 1: of this perpetrator. I mean, NA said, they drive drunk

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Speaker 1: all the time. That's how they get where they're going.

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Speaker 1: It's not a one time thing. And you're talking now

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Speaker 1: about a woman that has left six children without a

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Speaker 1: mother for what for two beers, for three beers, for

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Speaker 1: six martinis. Whatever this woman chose to have. When she

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Speaker 1: got in the car, she took somebody's mother. This is

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Speaker 1: a habit, and again she has rendered six children's motherless.

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Speaker 1: Those precious premature babies. She won't hold them, she won't

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Speaker 1: feed them, she won't have that bonding moment that they

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Speaker 1: so desperately needed. And she did this for what, Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: do you remember when the twins were born? Just throw

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Speaker 1: me that shower where all the cops and investigators and

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Speaker 1: everybody from the d a's office showed up. We had

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Speaker 1: this great baby shower, and little do we know almost

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Speaker 1: you know, immediately after that, I would go into emergency

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Speaker 1: cesarean and Lucy was only two pounds, barely two pounds.

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Speaker 1: These two little girls um the victim in this case.

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Speaker 1: We're one pound each. And her husband, yes, I know,

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Speaker 1: she's the mother of six. I wish I was the

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Speaker 1: mother of six, Cheryl. I know it sounds crazy, but

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Speaker 1: I am so in love with the twins. I would

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Speaker 1: just love to expand it. This woman, according to her husband,

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Speaker 1: had waited fifteen years to have these children, two baby

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Speaker 1: girls one pound each. You know how much they need

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Speaker 1: their mother. They need round the clock care when they

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Speaker 1: get home from the hospital. At least my twins did

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Speaker 1: ground the clock. Remember my mission us to keep them alive?

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Speaker 1: Right and now no mom, no mom? And they need

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Speaker 1: that find they need that mother, and the they just do.

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Speaker 1: And Nancy again she did this for what for drinks?

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Speaker 1: Six drinks? Okay, so six martini, seven beers? You rend

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Speaker 1: their six children's muggless? You know? To Dr Chloe Carmichael,

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Speaker 1: psychologist and creator of Anxiety tools dot com. Dr Chloe,

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Speaker 1: why is it driving me so crazy to look at

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Speaker 1: the selfish she keeps taking of herself all dacked out

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Speaker 1: like Kim and Kardashian. Why that is just really getting

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Speaker 1: under my skin? And look she's she's a beautiful young girl,

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Speaker 1: the drunk driver. But the I guess it's the self

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Speaker 1: um congratulation, the self absorption of all of these photos.

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Speaker 1: When I know what has happened, and I can certainly

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Speaker 1: understand why the seutheast would drive you crazy. As you said,

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Speaker 1: it really suggests in this particular case, somebody who's actually

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Speaker 1: quite selfish, who doesn't have any empathy or regard for

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Speaker 1: other people, and who's literally making reckless um you know,

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Speaker 1: life ending choices for other people. So of course those selfies,

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Speaker 1: UM drive you crazy. It's totally understandable, you know. Also

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Speaker 1: to Drew Nelson, Crime Stories investigative reporter, the mom was

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Speaker 1: thrown from the car and was pronounced dead immediately by

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Speaker 1: first responders. I know she has four other children that

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Speaker 1: she was on her way home to take care of.

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Speaker 1: She's got four other boys, twelve year old Spencer, eleven

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Speaker 1: year old Travis, nine year old Nathaniel, and two year

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Speaker 1: old Gideon. You know, and I can speak to nine

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Speaker 1: year old how much they need their mom, because you know,

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Speaker 1: you think they need to when their babies and you're

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Speaker 1: changing their dipes and you're getting formula and milk down

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Speaker 1: them and teaching them to walk, and but really as

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Speaker 1: they get older and Carroyline know you agree with this,

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Speaker 1: they need you even more as they're navigating the world

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Speaker 1: and they're coming home from school upset or there's a bully,

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Speaker 1: or there's this, or there's that. They don't even remember

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Speaker 1: you changing those dipies. So Drew, I think I understand now,

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Speaker 1: Drew Nelson, why she's been waiting fifteen years. She finally

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Speaker 1: had girls. She's got four boys, she finally these little girls. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she's only been able to visit them at the

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Speaker 1: hospital up until this point. You know, they've only been

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Speaker 1: born just weeks earlier. Sarah and Hannah, these little girls,

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Speaker 1: and you know what it's like to be waiting on

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Speaker 1: twin and here she is having to go to the

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Speaker 1: hospital to visit them, uh, and then go home to

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Speaker 1: the boys. And what I have just I've been discovering

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Speaker 1: about this, this crash is just horrific. The woman we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about, the twenty one year old elect messina Um,

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Speaker 1: she had containers of alcohol in the car, according to

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Speaker 1: the car to the police, there were open containers. Cheryl

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Speaker 1: McCollum with me, former president of Mad Mothers Against Drunk Driving,

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Speaker 1: Georgia way In on what you're hearing. I really want

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Speaker 1: to hear your take on this. Of course she did, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: This is one crime that is so selfish. This is

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Speaker 1: not somebody that shop lift for Christmas presents for their

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Speaker 1: children because they're broke. This is not somebody that steals

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Speaker 1: food because they're hungry. This is somebody that willingly has

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Speaker 1: total and complete disregards for whoever might be in their path.

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Speaker 1: They don't give a dance, they're gonna get in the

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Speaker 1: car and they're gonna drive. Of course you had alcohol.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing that is so just despicable in

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Speaker 1: disgusting is, of course she's fine. She's not injured at all.

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Speaker 1: It's never the drunk driver. They get out like, what

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Speaker 1: what's happened? Why is that? Why do they never get hurt?

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Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum. Every d u I manslaughter that I've ever seen,

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Speaker 1: which by the way, I don't think it should be manslaughter,

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Speaker 1: which I'm gonna get to. They're always fine, and so

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Speaker 1: is the innocent victim that dies. Why is that? Well,

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Speaker 1: one answer that I've been given is because they're so

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Speaker 1: relaxed because they're drunk, they're wasted, so they're just cruising

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Speaker 1: around barely even you know, so when they crashed, their

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Speaker 1: body is so relaxed they just have no injury where

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Speaker 1: the other person tenses up and bones break and you know,

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Speaker 1: they suffer horrific damage. It's just one of the pathetic

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Speaker 1: ironies of this crime, you know. And another issue. People

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Speaker 1: always call it an accident, but I, as I have

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Speaker 1: told many many juries Cheryl McCullum, it is no accident.

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Speaker 1: It is a crash, and I say it's a murdering.

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Speaker 1: This is my reasoning. You decide to go to a

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Speaker 1: bar and drink, you know what, fine, that's your decision.

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Speaker 1: But then you decide to fish through your pocketbook and

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Speaker 1: find your car keys. Then you decide to get another drink.

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Speaker 1: Then you manage to get off that bar stool and

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Speaker 1: head to the car. Then you decide to unlock it,

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Speaker 1: open the door and get behind the driver's seat. You

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Speaker 1: know you've been drinking. You decide to crank it up,

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Speaker 1: put it reverse, ease out and put it in drive.

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Speaker 1: You decide to get out on the highway. That's your decision,

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Speaker 1: all calculated decisions. And the law, says Cheryl McCullum, as

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Speaker 1: you and I have both said before, the law presumes

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Speaker 1: you intend the natural consequence of your act. In other words,

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Speaker 1: if I were to take a piece of fine china

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Speaker 1: and throw it to the cement floor, I couldn't then say, well,

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Speaker 1: I meant to throw it, but I didn't mean for

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Speaker 1: it to break. The law presumes you intend the natural

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Speaker 1: consequence of your act. So if you get in the

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Speaker 1: car drunk and start driving on a busy a three way,

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Speaker 1: why do you think's gonna happen, Cheryl, And they think

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Speaker 1: there's not one person at her age that did not

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Speaker 1: have something in her high school, something in her middle

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Speaker 1: school where they you know, teach there. They have you know,

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Speaker 1: drun this into people about point oh eight and drinking

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Speaker 1: and driving in the danger. She knew it, she didn't care,

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Speaker 1: and now she's the murderer as far as concerned. I

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Speaker 1: want you to listen to what her husband and aerospace

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Speaker 1: engineer has to say, who's now raising six children, four

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Speaker 1: boys and two premature baby girls still in the nick

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Speaker 1: you Neo natal intensive care unit. Now what he has

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Speaker 1: to say about losing his beautiful wife that night was hell.

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Speaker 1: I knew she was on her way home, and when

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Speaker 1: she wasn't home when I thought she should be home,

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Speaker 1: I got worried. We had people here when I told

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Speaker 1: the kids that their mom was gone, and that was

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Speaker 1: really important because every kid needed a hug, and I

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Speaker 1: could only really hug one at a time. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: she's gonna watch over them for the rest of their lives.

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Speaker 1: There's still so much good in this world and we

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Speaker 1: are seeing at firsthand, and I think that is the

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Speaker 1: thing that's sustaining me. Right now to Dr Chloe Carmichael's

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Speaker 1: psychologist and Vandervan's Anxiety tools dot com. What do you

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Speaker 1: think this dad is going through right now? I cannot

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Speaker 1: even imagine, Oh, Nancy, Um, it must just be as

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Speaker 1: you said, I must be on what we can comprehend.

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Speaker 1: Because a man has an innate desire to protect and

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Speaker 1: to care for women. That really something that mother nature

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Speaker 1: and evolutionary or evolution kind of programmed into men. And

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Speaker 1: that's actually heightened when the woman has given birth because

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Speaker 1: you know of a lot of complex reasons with evolutionary psychology,

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Speaker 1: but she's actually helping to pass on his genes at

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Speaker 1: that particular moment. So, Um, in terms of evolutionary psychology,

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Speaker 1: he has a heightened sense of protection. And then just

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Speaker 1: through being socialized of course as well, his wife has

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Speaker 1: just given birth, he has a naturally heightened desire to

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Speaker 1: protect and shelter her. So for this to happen at

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Speaker 1: this particular moment, when he was soaring in the heights

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Speaker 1: of you know, basking and being for the sixth time

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Speaker 1: now father with this woman, and they had four older

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Speaker 1: boys and now they have these two little girls, every

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Speaker 1: protection bone in his body was amplified at the moment

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Speaker 1: of this terrible um. You know, as you're saying, just

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Speaker 1: what what feels in many ways almost like a murder

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Speaker 1: of somebody that just took a huge each piece of

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Speaker 1: steel and and drove it into her car and and

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Speaker 1: had her thrown into the air and violently killed. UM.

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Speaker 1: So the type of anguish and loss as well as

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Speaker 1: anger that he must be feeling right now is almost

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Speaker 1: unfathom of all. Let's pause just one moment to thank

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Speaker 1: twenty one year old drunk Kim Kardashian look alike crosses

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Speaker 1: the Median at point two one slams into a mother

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Speaker 1: of six on her way home from visiting her premature twins.

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Speaker 1: That she had waited fifteen years to have, mother of

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Speaker 1: six premature twin girls on her way home to the

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Speaker 1: other four children when tragedy strikes. Is it true? Drew

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Speaker 1: Nelson Crime Stories investigative reporter that she also hit another vehicle.

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Speaker 1: She hit two cars that night, two cars, and then

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Speaker 1: as she collided with the mother of six, who knows

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Speaker 1: how fast she was going at that time. I mean

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Speaker 1: imagine miles an hour, just just plus twenty five for

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Speaker 1: the other car, that's a fifty four, and this this

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Speaker 1: mother of six is thrown from the car. You know, Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: she was almost home, and I know that doesn't mean anything. Probatively,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't prove anything. She was one mile from home.

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Speaker 1: How tired do you think she was, Cheryl, just trying

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Speaker 1: to get home. She's taking care of four boys, that's

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Speaker 1: not the easiest, and the husband's working full time in

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Speaker 1: the aerospace field. Her lifelong dream of having girls finally happens,

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Speaker 1: and she couldn't wait to take care of them. At

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Speaker 1: the hospital still in intensive care and is driving home

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Speaker 1: one mile. She almost made it, Cheryl, You know, needsy

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Speaker 1: they always tell you within that five mile radio. So again,

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Speaker 1: that tells you that this criminal was in a residential district.

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Speaker 1: She had no care or concerns who was in her path.

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Speaker 1: It could have been an elderly person, it could have

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Speaker 1: been a handicapped person, it could have been a small child.

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Speaker 1: She did not care. And horrifyingly, it's a mother of

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Speaker 1: six that was doing nothing wrong. She was doing everything

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Speaker 1: in the world right. What does it say to you,

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Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum, former director of Mothers Against Drunk Driving Georgia,

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Speaker 1: that she had open containers e r s that's plural

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Speaker 1: of alcohol in her car. You can't wait to get

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Speaker 1: home or to a bar. You got a drink in

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Speaker 1: the on the way. Yeah, she's an alcoholic and everybody

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Speaker 1: in her social group knows it, and her family knows it,

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Speaker 1: and they're gonna try to deny it. But she drank

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Speaker 1: till she blacked out. This has been going on since college.

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Speaker 1: And you know, this is probably not the first run in.

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Speaker 1: She's probably had feeding, she's probably had rentless driving. She

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Speaker 1: may or may not even have a d U. I

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Speaker 1: but I and telling you she has driven drunk more

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Speaker 1: than once, because again, this is a woman that by herself.

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Speaker 1: She's not in the car with six people where she's

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Speaker 1: partying and they're all headed to spring break. She's alone

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Speaker 1: and she's a point to one. The legal limit is

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Speaker 1: point oh eight. She wouldn't even trump almost three times

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Speaker 1: the legal limit. You know. The other day, UH dragged

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Speaker 1: the twins to go walk our crazy munt dog fat

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Speaker 1: boy with me and John David. You know, all the

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Speaker 1: boys were the baggy pants and so he had these

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Speaker 1: big baggy shorts on and he put a water bottle

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Speaker 1: in each bottle in each pocket, which made him go.

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Speaker 1: You know, they were like hanging down. I'm like, what

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Speaker 1: are you crossing the Sahara? You gotta have two water

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Speaker 1: bottles forty minutes you can make it, okay, be strong son,

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Speaker 1: And I'm just thinking it just strike. She has to

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Speaker 1: have two can to piners of booze at least, because

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Speaker 1: they say containers to get from what her house to

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Speaker 1: the gas station or the bar to the house, or

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Speaker 1: the house to the bar, she can't make it there

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Speaker 1: without down some booze. Cheryl the Coe probably going to

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Speaker 1: the bar, Nancy. This is how she travels. I'm telling you.

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Speaker 1: When she leaves her house, she's got her flask or

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Speaker 1: whatever the container is that she's got open. And this

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Speaker 1: is how she's going to Walmart. This is how she's

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Speaker 1: going to get her nail done. This is how she lives.

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Speaker 1: She's a drunk and and you know you're talking about

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Speaker 1: three times a legal limit. She should serve three times

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Speaker 1: what a normal person with her she needs to go

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Speaker 1: to pun. Know what, Cheryl, I'm afraid you and I

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Speaker 1: really just seem too much of this world because um

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Speaker 1: not that I want to leave, don't get me wrong, Lord,

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Speaker 1: But when you said flask, do you know what John David,

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Speaker 1: my son who's nine, said. He goes, Mom, I want

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Speaker 1: a flask, And I'm like, what's the flask? Of course

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Speaker 1: I knew it was, but I was hoping he didn't know.

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Speaker 1: You know, you put stuff in it to drink. I'm like, son,

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Speaker 1: why do you want a flask? And he went, Mom,

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Speaker 1: I want to put cold milk in it. And it

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Speaker 1: took all of my strength not to start laughing. And

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Speaker 1: you know what I did? Right when when the next

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Speaker 1: place we were at Target, So I don't know where

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Speaker 1: we were. We saw flask and like looke, John Davi,

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Speaker 1: there's flask. We were in the hardware store and they

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Speaker 1: had him for like campers or something, and I got

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Speaker 1: him a flask. He came home. He didn't even clean

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Speaker 1: it out, Mike, did you clean it out first? Even? No,

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Speaker 1: he poured milk in it started. And I think where

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Speaker 1: he saw it was on Harry Potter. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how much you watched it, but we've read them all

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Speaker 1: and watched them all, and mad I mood he drinks

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Speaker 1: from a flask all the time. And John David saw it,

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Speaker 1: decided put milk. And so when I and you and I,

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Speaker 1: you know, we just him. And when Cheryl is spouting

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Speaker 1: all this information out, it's because she We've done it

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00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: so many times. I mean, come on, Jackie here in

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00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: the studio, when you go to Target or Walmart, wherever

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Speaker 1: you go, do you carry two bottles of booze just

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Speaker 1: to make it to walk? I mean, I wouldn't even

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00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: think of it. And she's right, this is how she rolls.

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Speaker 1: But you know what we're we're talking lightheartedly about flasks

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00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: and Walmart and Target and Polly juice potion and Harry Potter,

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Speaker 1: Let's bring it all home, Alan, Please, let's hear one

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00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: more time Katie Evans husband. That night was hell. I

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00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: knew she was on her way home, and when she

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00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: wasn't home when I thought she should be home, I

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00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: got worried. We had people here when I told the

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00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: kids that their mom was gone, and that was really

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00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: important because every kid needed a hug and I could

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Speaker 1: only really hug one at a time. I'm sure she's

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00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: gonna watch over them for the rest of their lives.

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00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: There's still so much good in this world, and we

396
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 1: are seeing it firsthand, and I think that is the

397
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 1: thing that's sustaining me right now. For those who wish

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00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: to help the family of Katie Evans, Drew Nelson, Crime

399
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: Stories Investigative Reporter, Is there a way we can help?

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00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: Look at the website you caring dot com This that

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00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 1: shows a picture from from happier times, the four boys,

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00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: dad and mom. The girls aren't in the picture because

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00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: they haven't been able to come home yet, but there's

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00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: six children on this website you caring dot com and

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00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: look for the Evans Family Accident Expense Fund. And if

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00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: you can't contribute that way, I'm sure they can use

407
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: your prayers. And now we go to Panola County, Mississippi

408
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: and one of the most horrific cases Court Watches have seen,

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00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: which in the last hours has resulted in a mistrial.

410
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: It's all about a young cheerleader, Jessica chamber As a

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00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: cheerleader all the way through high school, who was literally

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00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: burned alive. The evidence has pointed to the defendant, Quentin

413
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: tell Us, who admits he was with her throughout the evening,

414
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: on and off. Their text messages are playing a major

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00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: role in this investigation where he continually via text message,

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00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: pressured her to have a romantic relationship. Well, I'm putting

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00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: that ephemistically. I'm definitely putting perfume on the pig. He

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00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: was pressuring her for sex over and over and over,

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00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: and you can see on the text messages where she

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00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: kept saying no, no, no, leave me alone, no no no.

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00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: Then how is it that they are alone in her

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00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: car by his own admission up until seven thirty p m.

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00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: The evening, she is doused with gasoline and set on fire.

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00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: What somebody else comes along in that thirty minute window

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00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: from the time he left her and the time she

426
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: spotted on the side of the road, burning alive. That's

427
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: kind of hard for me to believe. To Shane Dieter,

428
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: joining us assignment editor with W A. T. And Shane,

429
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Let's start at the beginning.

430
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: What happened the night that Jessica Chambers was spotted by

431
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: a motorist wearing nothing but her underwear. Her bra had

432
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: melted off her body, asking for help. What happened? Cool

433
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: Hely Uh former fire chief of that area, was the

434
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: first person on seen in uh Cole at the time,

435
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: said that he that's just Jessica. Who she was. He

436
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: described how she would looked. Wait a minute. He told

437
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: the jury that the moment he saw her, he knew

438
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: it was Jessica Chambers. It's a very low population. Everybody

439
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: knows each other. And she comes out of the woods.

440
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: Her car is on fires, totally destroyed by fire, out

441
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: in a field. She comes walking up along the roadway

442
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: on fire, and he knows it's Jessica Chambers right then

443
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: and there. Right He asked her her name to verify it,

444
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: and her answer, of course, you gotta remember she was

445
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: on fire. She's in incredible pain, she said, Jessica timbers

446
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,719
Speaker 1: and obviously couldn't speak correctly. Mark Tate also with me,

447
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: veteran multi state defense attorney practicing out of the Savannah jurisdiction. Mark,

448
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: when I spoke to the father, which I did in depth,

449
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: he told me that at the time, doctors believed the

450
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: perpetrator had poured gasoline or lighter fluid down her mouth

451
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: and throat. That's how badly her insides were burned. She

452
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: could hardly terrific, which becomes very important later on. So

453
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: she they couldn't even understand when she tried to say Chambers,

454
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: it sounded like something completely different. Why is that so

455
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: significant that she can't speak? Mark take The reason that significant,

456
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: Nancy is this dying declarations carry a lot of evidentiary weight,

457
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: especially in this instance. And so she identified later a

458
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: name of the person who set her on fire, and

459
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: people who were interviewing her said it sounded like she

460
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: said tell Us or Eric or something along those lines.

461
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: And so as a result of that dying declaration, law

462
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: enforcement proceeded to conduct interviews of numerous people who had

463
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: those names and ruled them all out. And so the

464
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: notion is that her, gosh, it's just unbelievable that her

465
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: mouth and tongue and teeth were so destroyed that she

466
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: couldn't speak correctly. But that the word that she said

467
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: was so close to the name of the man who

468
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: clearly had contact with her throughout the evening and day

469
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: and has evidence of having harassed her for sex. The

470
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: name sounds close enough, and so that's the argument to

471
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: the jury. I think it's a good argument, and I

472
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: think the judge was correct in letting that evidence in

473
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: as a dying declaration to let the jury determine whether,

474
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: in fact she identified her her killer. I've got no

475
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: one word. You're so right, Mark, take Shane Deeter joining

476
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: me as Sigmon editor w A t in, Shane, when

477
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: the far she've got there, as you were just telling us,

478
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: I mean the woman she can't talk. She's been on fire.

479
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: In fact, every square inch of her body was burned

480
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: except for the soles of her feet and her rear

481
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: end where she had been sitting in the car where

482
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: I think she was raped in the car myself, because Shane,

483
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: isn't it true that tell Us himself says they quote

484
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: had sex in the car, Yes, Nancy, he said that

485
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: they had sex in the passenger seat of her car,

486
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: and so how is it, Shane Deeter, that all these

487
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: text messages where she's saying no, no, no, no no,

488
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: and then she apparently gives him a ride. Next thing

489
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: you know, whoops, they're having sex and now she's dead.

490
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: It sounds to me more like she was raped in

491
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: the car and he had to get rid of her

492
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: or else she would report the rape and she ends

493
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: upset on fire. Now, Shane, what happened? Mark tate Uh,

494
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: the multi state defense lawyer, was describing some of the facts,

495
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: But what happened when the fire chief spoke to her?

496
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: At first, Nancy, he said he was trying to get

497
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 1: her help and all that. He said that he couldn't

498
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: understand the name that she said, which everyone has said

499
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: in testimony, she said Eric. He said that he had

500
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: his ear down to her mouth he couldn't understand it.

501
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: And then a couple of days later, when he was

502
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: doing his written statement, then he said she said Eric.

503
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: So eventually he said he couldn't. Yeah, he asked her,

504
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: who did this to you? And she tried to say

505
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: a name, a single word, and he said it sounded

506
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: like Eric. Here's the fire chief. What was this person

507
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: wearing when I said her. She had nothing on them

508
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: with her bands and what did you tell me you did? You?

509
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: You gotta blanket. I got it out and I gotta blanket.

510
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: And she had her arms out, was coming to with

511
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: me saying help me, help me, help me, Nicole. I

512
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: want you to describe for this jury what type of

513
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: what did she look like? What was the condition of

514
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: Jessica Chambers? Her hair was her hair was fried out,

515
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: like she's stuck in the light socket, and she had

516
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: black all over her face. Her body was severely burned

517
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: and just all the way down her body was was

518
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: it was very badly burned, and proceeded a layer down

519
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: on the ground. She reached out from I am. I

520
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: held onto her hand and I talked to her and

521
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: asked her her name, and she said what come out like?

522
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: I said, her mouth inside her mouth was just charred black.

523
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: And could not understand her very well at all. Were

524
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: you able to get a name? When I asked her

525
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: her name, she said Jessica Chambers. And hey, like I said,

526
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: she was not recognizable to me. I know what Jessica

527
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: Chambers looked like. Did not look like Jessica Chambers at

528
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: the time. Now describe her voice for the jury. How

529
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: is it coming out? When you were talking to her?

530
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: It was very gargled and just dry. I mean, you know,

531
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: I was. I was face to face with her, and

532
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: she uh, like I said, he could he could barely

533
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: understand her. And she she kept asking for water, and

534
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: and I I knew in my mind she didn't need water.

535
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: I knew that was not the best, you know, not

536
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: to give her water. Held her hand beside her and

537
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: asked what happened? And she told me she said, I

538
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: was set on fire again. It was her voice clear,

539
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: it was not not clear, Like I said, you know,

540
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 1: some words come. You were able to tell what they

541
00:35:54,440 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: were plainly, but it was not clear. Year, if it

542
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: makes sense, did you ask her? Who did this? Her?

543
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: I asked her, I said, who did this? She tried

544
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: to say a name. I could not understand the name,

545
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: but it sound like anything to you. I could. I

546
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: couldnot make out anything to what she said. The only

547
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: time I heard a name was after uh Daniel Cole

548
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: got on sing Medstet got there, and I believe the

549
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: deputy was there, and they had turned her head away

550
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: from and they had started taking to her up and

551
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: they kept question or you know who did this? Who

552
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: did this? Who did this? And then I heard them say,

553
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: like I said, I never personally, I never heard her

554
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: say a name. M They went on though, the first responders,

555
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 1: there were eight of them, plus the chief, and they

556
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: said that they couldn't understand what she was saying. The

557
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: emergency equipment was blaring in the background, all these fire

558
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: trucks then and police, all these people were there, and

559
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: she couldn't speak, and she was barely whispering. And then

560
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: they said they couldn't make out the word. But Mark,

561
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: take let me compare it to the moment in court

562
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: when Orenthal James Simpson O J. Simpson held up the

563
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: glove which was dried blood, soaked with dried blood and shrunken,

564
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: and he pulls it over his fingers that let's just

565
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: say the top digits and says it doesn't fit, and

566
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: that one thing was the lynchpin and the not guilty verdict.

567
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: That one moment, and that's how I say, well, I'm

568
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,919
Speaker 1: saying about this dying declaration just like I know, darn

569
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: well that was his glove because Nicole Brown bought it

570
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: for I mean, there's a proof of that, plus a

571
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: receipt and a picture of what she bought him. It's

572
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: that glove, okay. And I know in this case the

573
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: drama of a dying declaration where she allegedly said Eric.

574
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: I think she was trying to say tell us, but

575
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: they thought she said Eric. They didn't know the name

576
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: tell Us, and so they figured they deciphered she said Eric,

577
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: and that is what hung this jury up. I'm telling you, well,

578
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: first of all, let me about the Simpson trial. I

579
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: think there was a whole lot going on there besides

580
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: the gross prosecutorial mistake of crying the jury show. I

581
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: think we had a judge. You and I both know

582
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: never do a demonstration. You have not practiced, But I

583
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: think I agree with you. But the judge let the

584
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: defense team run rampant, and I think that he was

585
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: impressed with the celebrity status of his trial, and I

586
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: think that he and the way he conducted that trial

587
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: contributed in large part. There's no question that the prosecutors

588
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: made a tragic error, and boyd they paid for that

589
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: tragic error and continue to in their careers because they're

590
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 1: never going to live that down. Similar to this case,

591
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: I think we have a judge, you made it one

592
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: mistake and I'll talk about that when you're ready. But

593
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: the things that you have gone over about whether the

594
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: police chief could hear her at the time she was

595
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: making her dying declaration or whether he remembered it later,

596
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 1: whether the first responders who had the sirens blaring with

597
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: them could not understand it here. Yeah, that's all good.

598
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: That's great evidence for the defense to put on and

599
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 1: cross examine these witnesses with in order to create a doubt.

600
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: And that is listen, it's it is circumstantial evidence. It

601
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: is something that should be examined in questions. Well, yeah,

602
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: but I think you're right to start with I think

603
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: the judge should have allowed the dying declaration. And you

604
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: can't keep something like that out. You'll get reversed on appeal.

605
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: If they thought she said Eric at the time, the

606
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: jury has a right to know that. You can't wrote,

607
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: you know, sweeping under the rug. They thought she said Eric.

608
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: In retrospect, they realized that's not what she's saying, because,

609
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: I mean, the other evidence is so overwhelming. Dr Chloe Carmichael,

610
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: Psychologists joining US and founder of Anxiety tools dot Com.

611
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: Dr Chloe, I mean, let's take a look at Quentin

612
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 1: Tell us his own words. First of all, he changed

613
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: his story multiple times. Finally, the story he decided to

614
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: go with was that he was with a friend of

615
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: his the whole night. Well, of course police find the friend.

616
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: The friend says, what, I wasn't even in the state.

617
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: I was out of the state that night. I've been gone.

618
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: So he's lying blatantly. He admits he had quote sex

619
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: with Jessica. Well, we know that he had been rebuffed

620
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: over and over and over the states. Theory is that

621
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: he quote had sex I call raped her and asphyxiated

622
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: her in the car. That then he had to get

623
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,760
Speaker 1: rid of the evidence. So he goes to his house,

624
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 1: where he admits he keeps a five calin drum of gasoline,

625
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: and he's caught on surveillance video leaving the house where

626
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: the shed is with the gas and within fifty minutes

627
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 1: she's on fire. I mean, oh, also, Dr Chloe. He

628
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: deletes all the texts from his phone that referenced to Jessica. Now,

629
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: why would you do that? If my husband, which is

630
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: not I don't want this, has some kind of an accident,

631
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: I don't run to my phone and delete every text

632
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,879
Speaker 1: from him. Why would I do that? Well, you're absolutely right,

633
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: Nan stiff feels like a coordinated pattern here. Um, so

634
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: of course, why why would he lie to the police

635
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: in the first place. So right there, he's and streating

636
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: a disregard for law and order, and of course the

637
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: idea that he would have sex with her and then

638
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: be seen getting a five gallon jug of gasoline. Um,

639
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't seem like it's that difficult to understand. Um,

640
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: you know what what he was saying leaving the spot

641
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: with where the gas can had been. I mean, you can't,

642
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: you don't know what he's got with him. But I mean, yeah,

643
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: Dr Chloe, I mean, what what do you need a

644
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: video of him killing her? Well, I agree completely, and

645
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: I mean there's also the fact that you know, behavior

646
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: does often tend to occur in patterns, and from what

647
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: I understand this, Quentin verdel tell Us is also currently

648
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: under investigation for another murder because he was using the

649
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: credit card of a woman that that was murdered as well.

650
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: So it seems like he certainly has a pattern of

651
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: being involved around you know, women who are murdered, dead women,

652
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: dead women. You know, Dr Chloe Carmichael, psychologists joining us,

653
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 1: You just read my mind. I guess you're clear voyant

654
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: to boot because Shane Deeter joining us from w A

655
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: t N. The fact is he's also facing trial in

656
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: Louisiana for the murder, the torture slaying of a graduate

657
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: student there. Her name was seeing Low and she was

658
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: brutally stabbed multiple times. Then after she was stabbed. Oh,

659
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: and many of those stabs, Shane were torture stabs in

660
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: other words, like slicing her down the arm to try

661
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: to get information about her pass code for her a

662
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: t M. Then after she gives it up, she's murdered.

663
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: And he, it's absolutely proven by photographic evidence, uses her

664
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 1: a t M card repeatedly after she's dead. So there

665
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: you go. There's another dead woman everywhere he goes. As

666
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: he leaves a trail of dead bodies. He is he

667
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: is a bad guy. I mean, she was an exchanged

668
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: student from Tailan. She was at the University of louis

669
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: Anna Monroe. And he now sits in Washington Parish jail

670
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: there and that's where he was when February of two

671
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen he got the indictment for the murder

672
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: of Jessica Chambers. Well, the jury has hung. The jury

673
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: has hung regarding Jessica Chambers. But Mark Tate, it ain't

674
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: over yet. They're going to retry him on that. What

675
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: do you think they'll do any differently second time around? Mark, Well,

676
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: first of all, this will allow me to comment on

677
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: the judge. And you know, it's dangerous for a trial

678
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: lawyer to say something negative about a judge. But at

679
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: least from what has been reported about the charge he

680
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: gave the jury, this judge did not charge correctly. He

681
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: told the jury that they had to have a unanimous

682
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: verdict for a guilty verdict, but he did not tell

683
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: them what it had to be unanimous for a or

684
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: not guilty verd And so he corrected that charge when

685
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: the when the jury came out and said they're deadlocked,

686
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: and then they came back and could not resolve it enough.

687
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 1: If I recall correctly, it was a seven five. It

688
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: was seven five in favor of guilty. And at first

689
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: they came out twice with verdicts. The first time they

690
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: said not guilty because they thought you had to be

691
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: unanimous on guilty, and if you weren't unanimous on guilty,

692
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: then it just automatically was not guilty. They did not

693
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: understand the law. But all that you're you're absolutely right

694
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: on the law as usual, Mark take. But to me,

695
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: it's neither here nor there now because there was a

696
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: hung jury, so there's not gonna be an appeal, there's

697
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: gonna be a retrial. Then tell you this, They better

698
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: be ready and hit that digital evidence and hit it hard,

699
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: because there's no way in h E double l that

700
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: this guy was with her at seven thirty five and

701
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: at eight o'clock she's running down the road or approaching

702
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: the road almost Nate hit on fire and she's with

703
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: him fifteen minutes before. Uhh, yeah, I would quit. They

704
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: got to hit the timeline in the digital evidence. I mean,

705
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: I think that's the strongest case i've If I were

706
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:16,359
Speaker 1: a prosecutor, I would uh sich a question whether I

707
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: wanted to get into the evidence where the dying decoration

708
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: seemed to be shifting and somewhat sought Nancy Grace Crime Stories,

709
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye friend,