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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff.

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Speaker 1: I never told you production if I hurt you, and

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Speaker 1: we are once again so happy to be joined by

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Speaker 1: the marvelous, the magnificent Bridget Todd. Welcome Bridget.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me back. Always such a pleasure.

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Speaker 1: It is, it really is. I look forward to talking

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Speaker 1: to you every time, even though the topics we tackle

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Speaker 1: famously not so. It's not so easy.

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Speaker 3: I always say this, I swear I am a happy

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Speaker 3: person who is drawn to happy things.

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Speaker 2: Something about let's just cut let's just be real.

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Speaker 3: It's there's a lot of misery out there, and sometimes

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Speaker 3: I end up covering it on podcasts, But I am

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Speaker 3: a happy person who is drawn to happy things.

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Speaker 2: Don't get insted exactly.

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Speaker 4: The reality is, as much as like we would love

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Speaker 4: to be happy, go lucky, all of the things that

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Speaker 4: are happening we can't ignore. And it just happens that

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Speaker 4: these things are really gross and sad. And you know,

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Speaker 4: if I have to be given sad news or really

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Speaker 4: gross information, having someone as upbeat as you bringing it

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Speaker 4: to me, Bridget is kind of nice. Because I am

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Speaker 4: a sad person.

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Speaker 2: I am drawn to the darkness.

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Speaker 4: I am a bit gloomy, so having your perspective which

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Speaker 4: puts it in such a very factual but.

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Speaker 1: Also like realistic, but like here what.

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Speaker 4: Could be solutions, Here could be like the good possibilities,

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Speaker 4: and here are the realities. It's nice to be given

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Speaker 4: those that kind of news from someone like you. So

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Speaker 4: I appreciate that you bring this to us.

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Speaker 2: That makes me so happy to hear.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that really is what I try to do there,

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Speaker 3: Like there's no need for panic, even though things are

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Speaker 3: tough and scary, but you still need to know what's

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Speaker 3: going on. And also I think sometimes the conversations that

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Speaker 3: are happening these days are so grim that it's tempting

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Speaker 3: to just sort of check out from them. But we

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Speaker 3: really do need to understand how these things impact things

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Speaker 3: like gender and things like identity and who gets to

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Speaker 3: show up as themselves and who doesn't?

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Speaker 2: You know, I think it's important.

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Speaker 1: So thank you, yes, well, thank you. You know here's

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Speaker 1: the million dollar question. How have you been rigid?

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Speaker 2: Oh god, this is like that broad City. I mean,

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Speaker 2: how am I?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Things are good?

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Speaker 3: I actually just came back from a trip to Spain.

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Speaker 3: I was there doing a live show for this other podcast.

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Speaker 3: That I work on called Irl with Mozilla Foundation, which

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Speaker 3: was awesome. Was my first time in Spain. I went

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Speaker 3: to Barcelona, which was lovely and wonderful.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to come back. We might.

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Speaker 3: This was the first time it's ever happened to me.

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Speaker 3: We were supposed to land in Barcelona. We tried to

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Speaker 3: land in Barcelona through very atypical lightning storms and it

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Speaker 3: was one of those situations is where you know, we

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Speaker 3: everybody on the plane looked out the window and just

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Speaker 3: saw these big bolts of lightning and we all just

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Speaker 3: sort of made a quiet peace with our gods. Then

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Speaker 3: the plane went back up in the air and the

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Speaker 3: pilot was like, yeah, we can't land in Barcelona, so

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Speaker 3: we're landing in Madrid. So I got to go to

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Speaker 3: a bonus, a bonus trip to Madrid. First time I've

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Speaker 3: ever experienced that a plane landing in a different place

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Speaker 3: than where you thought it was gonna land.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I think this is the only time that would

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Speaker 4: be warranted for y'all to clap.

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Speaker 3: Somebody is sitting next to me burst into tears like

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Speaker 3: it was like unfair. It really was a moment of

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Speaker 3: like are we gonna make it right?

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Speaker 4: Everybody's quiet and eeriness because they're like, oh god, what

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Speaker 4: do we Yeah.

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Speaker 3: That was That was the creepy part, is that people

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Speaker 3: were like gasping, and a few people like like shrieked

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Speaker 3: or screamed.

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Speaker 2: But at a certain point everybody just got very quiet.

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Speaker 3: And that's when you know you're like, oh, this we

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Speaker 3: are in a situation.

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Speaker 1: Be real.

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Speaker 2: But it ended up being fine, and I got to

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Speaker 2: see Madrid for the first time, so I'm all good.

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Speaker 4: Nice, We love a good twist, a happy ending.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how have you two? Then?

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Speaker 1: Well, Samtha's apparently you.

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Speaker 4: Know my answer was not pretty. And for the listeners

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Speaker 4: who have listened consistently and have just recently heard my

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Speaker 4: happy hour, which was thirty minutes long of me beaching

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Speaker 4: and whining about adulthood, I think they know. But you

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Speaker 4: know what, we are together, so I am doing much

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Speaker 4: better right now than I'm want twenty minutes ago. I

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Speaker 4: will say that.

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Speaker 2: More like an unhappy hour.

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Speaker 1: It really was.

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Speaker 4: We named that specific session and wine because we have

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Speaker 4: some wine and then we and then I say.

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Speaker 1: Things, Well, there's a power in unloading yourself like that.

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Speaker 1: I'm okay, yeah, I'm good. I've had a lot of

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Speaker 1: good times with friends lately, and I appreciate that. That's

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Speaker 1: a nice I've gotten to see some people I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen it in a while, and it's been nice. I'm pretty tired,

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Speaker 1: but it's been good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, especially as we go into the dark months. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we still have the holidays. I feel like after the

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Speaker 3: holidays is when the real slug begins. But holding onto

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Speaker 3: those small comforts like getting to see friends, you know,

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Speaker 3: I think that really is very important.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and especially given some of the news right now

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Speaker 1: and some of the dark, dark times and dark things

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about in this episode.

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Speaker 3: That is right, just a content warning up top because

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Speaker 3: we were talking about convicted sex criminal Jeffrey Epstein, which I.

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Speaker 2: Feel like it's everywhere in the news.

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Speaker 3: You really kind of can't avoid the conversation around him.

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Speaker 3: Today is November twentieth, so by the time you hear this,

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Speaker 3: there is some chance that things might have changed. But

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Speaker 3: here is the latest as of today. So yesterday, the

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Speaker 3: Senate almost unanimously voted to release the Epstein files, with

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Speaker 3: only one dissenting vote, Republican Representative Klay Higgins of Louisiana.

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Speaker 3: So curious what's going on?

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Speaker 2: With him. I know, I looked at it.

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, you're just a major trumper, even

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Speaker 3: for Republicans. See, he seems like a quite extreme fellow.

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Speaker 3: So I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it is

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Speaker 3: well to be like, oh, even among Republicans, just one

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Speaker 3: dissenting vote.

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Speaker 2: So that bill then went to Trump's desk.

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Speaker 3: There were some back and forth of whether Trump was

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Speaker 3: going to sign it, but he did. So what happens

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Speaker 3: now is the Department of Justice has thirty days to

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Speaker 3: release these files.

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Speaker 4: I'm trying not to be a conspiracist, but I swear

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Speaker 4: the more I read, especially in this specific topic, the

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Speaker 4: thirty days seems too long. I know there has to

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Speaker 4: be some jurisdiction and all of that, but it feels

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Speaker 4: like there's too much happening, and thirty days is giving

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Speaker 4: them too much time and including the fight. Are they

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Speaker 4: actually going to release it? That's my question.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that is seems to be the big question. I

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Speaker 3: should say. I am no attorney so this is somewhat

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Speaker 3: above my pay grade. But here's a little bit from CNN.

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Speaker 3: Despite Trump signing the bill, uncertainty remains. Attorney General Pam

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Speaker 3: Bondi said yesterday that the Department of Justice will quote

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Speaker 3: follow the law, but some lawmakers and analysts are worried

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Speaker 3: that the Trump administration may try to hinder the process

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Speaker 3: by slowing the release or redacting information. So I don't

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Speaker 3: know above my pay grade, but your worries are grounded.

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Speaker 3: You're not the only person with that question. That seems

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Speaker 3: to be the question on everybody's mind. And in any event,

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Speaker 3: this is still all like a very big reversal of

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Speaker 3: the time very recently when Trump was calling this entire

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Speaker 3: thing a Democrat hoax, when Pam Bondy was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: there's not going to be any additional information release.

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Speaker 2: We looked into it. We don't need to release any

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Speaker 2: more information.

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Speaker 3: But then Trump was also recently vowing to investigate any

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Speaker 3: Democrats accused of breaking the law and the Epstein files,

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Speaker 3: which like, if the entire thing was just a big

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Speaker 3: Democratic hope, why would there be Democrats in the files.

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Speaker 3: I'm not fully as sure that he thought this one through,

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Speaker 3: but there you have it. And I do think it's

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Speaker 3: this weird thing where people, in an attempt to downplay

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Speaker 3: this entire thing, are saying, well, what if this takes

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Speaker 3: down a prominent Democrat like Bill Clinton, to which I say, great, like,

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Speaker 3: get him out of here. If Bill Clinton committed a

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Speaker 3: crime and that is revealed in the Epstein files, take

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Speaker 3: him to prison, right, Like, I don't think anybody is saying, no,

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Speaker 3: we need to protect prominent democrats like Bill Clinton from

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Speaker 3: accountability if they are named as having committed sex crimes

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Speaker 3: in the Epstein files. And also, do people really think

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Speaker 3: that most leftists are like clinging to the legacy of

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Speaker 3: Bill Clinton.

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Speaker 2: I saw this great post.

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Speaker 3: That was like, oh no, then I would have to

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Speaker 3: take down my Bill Clinton yard sign, burn my Bill

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Speaker 3: Clinton hat and T shirt, take off my Bill Clinton

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Speaker 3: car wrap, Like what are these people talking about? This

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Speaker 3: is completely like a fiction.

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Speaker 4: It really does baffle me, I guess in the sense

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Speaker 4: of like the people thinking everyone just because they have

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Speaker 4: idolized a politician into a way of being like this

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Speaker 4: is God's son literally putting pictures of like this, He's

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Speaker 4: the new Jesus that we all think of that way

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Speaker 4: for anyone that we voted for, instead of understanding a

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Speaker 4: lot of the choices that we make is the less

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Speaker 4: are evil and hoping that we can negotiate and hold

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Speaker 4: our people accountable to follow through with the promises they made,

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Speaker 4: Like it's not like this level of like, these are

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Speaker 4: people who work for us. These are people who we

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Speaker 4: are supposed to be able to, like count on to

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Speaker 4: protect our rights, not people I pray to because I

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Speaker 4: think you're going to do something to other people that

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Speaker 4: I don't like or I don't agree with that. That's

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Speaker 4: the other part to that is like their worship for

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Speaker 4: him is not because they think he's going to do

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Speaker 4: something great for them, is that he's going to be

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Speaker 4: mean to other people for them exactly.

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Speaker 2: Oh, this is a bit of a non sequitor.

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Speaker 3: But over the summer, I was at Ocean City, Maryland,

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Speaker 3: which is just like a kind of a trashy beach

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Speaker 3: town but I fully love and I go there every summer,

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Speaker 3: and they have all these boardwalk t shirt shops, and

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Speaker 3: every one of them has such prominent Trump memorabilia, Trump.

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Speaker 2: Hats, Trump shirts. It's like Trump Trump Trump, Tump Trump.

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Speaker 3: And I remember thinking I want to go into one

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Speaker 3: of these stories and be like, excuse me, where's your

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Speaker 3: Hakeem Jeffrey section, Like there's not You're you're so right

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Speaker 3: that there's not an analogous thing on the left where

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Speaker 3: people are buying like, you know, Hakeem Jeffrey's car wraps

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Speaker 3: and stuff like Ocean City boardwalks are not cluttered with

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Speaker 3: memorabilia about AOC.

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Speaker 4: It's just an interesting level. Also, the again with your

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Speaker 4: non sequit I love that everyone, and I mean everyone

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Speaker 4: takes advantage of that level of consumerism. Be like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: we'll buy those key products and sell itate everybody because

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Speaker 4: they all buy it. I'm gonna make money. You're gonna

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Speaker 4: be that ridiculous. I'm gonna sell it to you.

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Speaker 2: Get your money. I'm not even mad at it, to

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Speaker 2: be honest with you.

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Speaker 3: So the thing about whether or not prominent people, including

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Speaker 3: Democrats like Bill Clinton, would be involved in the Epstein

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Speaker 3: files is that Epstein, this is his total emmo. He

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Speaker 3: intentionally had deep ties to all kinds of prominent, wealthy,

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Speaker 3: powerful people on all sides of the aisle. This is

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Speaker 3: the same thing we saw from other convicted sex criminal

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Speaker 3: Sean Diddycomb's you know, surround yourself with wealthy, prominent, powerful

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Speaker 3: people and that both becomes this shield from accountability for

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Speaker 3: your crimes and then also you can get dirt on

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Speaker 3: all these other powerful people and sort of have an

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Speaker 3: extra layer of power and protection. So it is pretty

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Speaker 3: likely that it's the entirety of who did what is released.

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Speaker 2: There would be powerful.

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Speaker 3: People on all sides of the political spectrum and also

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Speaker 3: just like wealthy, famous non political people because that's how

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Speaker 3: Epstein rolled. But I want to talk about one prominent

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Speaker 3: democrat who we know had a connection with Epstein and

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Speaker 3: what that says about our current tech climate.

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Speaker 2: And that person is Larry.

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Speaker 1: Summers, yep who I did not know by name. I

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Speaker 1: knew of him. I think I just didn't know him,

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Speaker 1: but now I do, and I'm like, what a way

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Speaker 1: for people to find out?

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Speaker 3: Oh, yes, this is why we wanted to make this

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Speaker 3: episode in part, just as an old these names that

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Speaker 3: come up, you're like, oh, well, if you're under thirty,

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Speaker 3: you might not know this name, but if you're over thirty,

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Speaker 3: you might remember a lot about this person just from

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Speaker 3: being a person who was alive when a lot of

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Speaker 3: this stuff was going on. So Larry Summers, he might

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Speaker 3: not be a flashy name that you recognize, but if

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Speaker 3: you have any cash dollar bills that were minted from

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine to two thousand and one, you are

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Speaker 3: carrying around Larry Summers's signature.

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Speaker 2: In your wallet because his signature is on the money

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Speaker 2: that was mented then because he was the US Secretary

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Speaker 2: of the Treasury from nineteen ninety nine to two thousand

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Speaker 2: and one under former President Bill Clinton.

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Speaker 3: And he was also the Director of the National Economic

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Speaker 3: Council under former President Barack Obama. Basically that's the fancy

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Speaker 3: title for the fact that he was the top advisor

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Speaker 3: on economic matters for the president.

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Speaker 2: So a pretty big deal.

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Speaker 3: And Annie, you actually, I think we talked about the

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Speaker 3: movie The Social Network one time on here and how

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Speaker 3: much I like it. He is actually a fictionalized version

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Speaker 3: of himself is portrayed in the movie The Social Network.

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Speaker 2: He's sort of portrayed.

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Speaker 3: As like a good guy when the Winklevoss twins set

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Speaker 3: up a meeting with him to complain that Zuckerberg stole

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Speaker 3: their idea for Facebook while they were students at Harvard,

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Speaker 3: of which Larry Summers used to be the president of

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Speaker 3: which I will come back to. But yeah, so you

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Speaker 3: might have seen like a fictionalized version of Larry Summers

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Speaker 3: in that movie.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go back and watch it now.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be strange. Now I know all this other

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Speaker 1: stuff that has come out. Yes, yes, yes, even about Zuckerberg.

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Speaker 1: At the time, he was bad, and now I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh wild that.

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Speaker 3: I feel like the Winklevoss Twins are the kind of

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Speaker 3: the ones that history sort of is like, well there,

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Speaker 3: I'm not reading about them like in connections with convicted

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Speaker 3: sex criminals and stuff, or you know, disrupting democracy via

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Speaker 3: Facebook and meta.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know, maybe they turned out to be

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Speaker 2: Maybe history.

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Speaker 3: Will be kinder to the Winklevoss Twins, even though they're

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Speaker 3: sort of portrayed as the villains in that movie.

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Speaker 1: I played by.

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Speaker 4: Who played who played?

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Speaker 3: How did I just put this Togetherlake?

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Speaker 2: But that justin Timberlake is Sean Parker, the nabster guy.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, okay, Wow.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to rewatch this and I think I'm going

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Speaker 1: to have a wild time.

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Speaker 4: I've never seen it.

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Speaker 2: I just know such a good movie.

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Speaker 3: If you ever ever want to do a rewatch, like

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Speaker 3: we all watch it and like recap it.

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Speaker 4: With you love to Yes, we might need we might

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Speaker 4: need to do this.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, my first time.

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Speaker 3: Take cast some characters and that in that hole, both

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Speaker 3: in the fictionalized version in the Sorkin film and in

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Speaker 3: real life just a real a menagerie there. So folks

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Speaker 3: have probably seen or heard about some of these emails

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Speaker 3: that were newly released as part of the Epstein files,

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Speaker 3: because last week the House Oversight Committee released a new

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Speaker 3: round of twenty thousand documents and emails from Epstein's estate.

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Speaker 3: And that is how we know that Larry Summers, who

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Speaker 3: is currently a very big deal professor at Harvard University,

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Speaker 3: is mentioned as somebody who had a documented, pretty uncool

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Speaker 3: relationship with convicted pedophile and wealthy financier Jeffrey Epstein. And

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Speaker 3: just in the way of disclosures, before I talk too

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Speaker 3: much about Harvard University, I should disclose that I am

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Speaker 3: currently an affiliate of Harvard University's Brooklyn Clin Center.

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Speaker 2: So I did want to back.

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Speaker 3: Up and just give a bit of a quick and

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Speaker 3: dirty rundown of who Epstein is for folks who are

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Speaker 3: not mired.

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Speaker 2: And this a guy had been the last couple of months.

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Speaker 3: So Epstein was a wealthy financier who threw his money

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Speaker 3: all over the place. He was convicted of sex crimes

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Speaker 3: against a minor in two thousand and eight and famously

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Speaker 3: got off on a very lenient sentence for that.

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Speaker 2: Crime only thirteen months with work release.

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Speaker 3: Importantly, both before this and notably after this conviction, a

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Speaker 3: lot of influential people continued to associate with Epstein, who

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Speaker 3: by then was a convicted sex criminal. Ebstein died in

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Speaker 3: jail in twenty nineteen while awaiting trial on federal sex

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Speaker 3: trafficking charges, and the New York City Medical Examiner ruled

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Speaker 3: his death of suicide, but conspiracy theories claiming that Epstein

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Speaker 3: didn't kill himself began to spread almost immediately in the aftermath.

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Speaker 3: The idea here is that Epstein was taken out to

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Speaker 3: avoid details that might incriminate powerful people that he associated with.

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Speaker 3: And it's one of those theories that kind of works

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Speaker 3: regardless of what side of the aisle you're on, because

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Speaker 3: Epstein had ties with all the political party and as

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Speaker 3: I said that, ingratiating himself with like wealthy, powerful spaces

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Speaker 3: and people was just sort of Epstein's m especially in

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Speaker 3: the tech world. He gave donations to a lot of

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Speaker 3: influential tech spaces. We did an episode of my podcast

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Speaker 3: There Are No Girls on the Internet about the contributions

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Speaker 3: he made to MIT's Media Lab and the Kenyan first

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Speaker 3: year MIT grad student who called for Joy Echo ahead

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Speaker 3: of the Media Lab to step down once this was revealed.

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Speaker 3: He also had some kind of a relationship with Microsoft

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Speaker 3: co founder Bill Gates. Bill Gates's ex wife, Melinda has

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Speaker 3: given several interviews to the effect that her marriage to

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Speaker 3: Bill Gates ended in part because of Bill Gates's relationship

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Speaker 3: with Jeffrey Epstein. She does this interview with Gail King

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Speaker 3: where Gail is like, well, what exactly happened? Like, can

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Speaker 3: you give us more details about what made you want

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Speaker 3: to leave your husband because of Epstein?

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Speaker 2: And she was like, you're gonna have to ask Bill Gates.

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Speaker 2: That not me.

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Speaker 3: So it's like a very it seems to me she's

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Speaker 3: like continuating something and all I guess I'll just leave

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Speaker 3: it at that. So it's one of those things where

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Speaker 3: you have a lot of powerful, rich and famous people

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Speaker 3: having this connection with Epstein, and that is how he

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Speaker 3: designed it. And so when the House Oversite Committee released

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Speaker 3: these emails and these documents, we got a lot more

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Speaker 3: insight into what that looked like. And I just have

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Speaker 3: to add, as a side note, have you all read

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Speaker 3: any of these emails or exchanges?

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Speaker 1: I have not.

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Speaker 4: It makes me sad I've seen things being posted, so

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Speaker 4: I know of blips.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so this is just a side note. I guess

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Speaker 3: the way they.

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Speaker 2: Are written is working insane.

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Speaker 3: Like reading these emails that some of the most prominent, wealthy,

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Speaker 3: important people in government, tech, and media reading in the

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Speaker 3: way that they emailed each other has absolutely cured me

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Speaker 3: of my anxiety around needing to to word my emails

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Speaker 3: just so. When I'm writing an email, I'm trying to

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Speaker 3: gauge the exact right amount of exclamation marks to use

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Speaker 3: to sound enthusiastic and easy to work with, but not

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Speaker 3: too enthusiastic.

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Speaker 2: Every email is like, no worries. If not, I'm happy

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Speaker 2: to like I go through.

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Speaker 3: So I go through so much second guessing this. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 3: Jeffery Epstein was just like, Yo, what's up. Want to

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Speaker 3: do some sex crimes later?

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Speaker 2: Lol?

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Speaker 3: Like every word miss spell, every word mistype, every word misspelled.

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Speaker 1: Like punctuation absent or completely inexplicable.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's kind of like if a boomer was trying

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Speaker 4: to be cool and they're like lols and like that

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Speaker 4: type of thing no one actually uses, but they think

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Speaker 4: that's what the kids are doing.

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Speaker 3: Truly, it is like up number four sex crime question

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Speaker 3: mark lol, with small diz punctuated in insane. You say

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Speaker 3: he put a lot of stuff in writing that. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I just don't think any of this stuff should have

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Speaker 3: been in writing, And they're so egregiously mistyped that part

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Speaker 3: of me wonders if this was intentional, if they were

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Speaker 3: trying to like evade some sort of something. I have

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Speaker 3: no idea, but I want to make it clear that

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Speaker 3: he wasn't writing these in like nineteen ninety nine or something,

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Speaker 3: during a time and we didn't really have a concept

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Speaker 3: of what email was or what did or didn't belong

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Speaker 3: in emails and how to write them. He was writing

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Speaker 3: a lot of these emails in twenty eighteen, right at

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Speaker 3: a time when email was commonplace.

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Speaker 2: The whole thing is just very weird to me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it does get to the like plausible deniability. I

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Speaker 4: would never write it that way. That's not how I

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Speaker 4: speak type of thing.

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Speaker 1: Or just even because they tried to index. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can search how many times a name comes up

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Speaker 1: or whatever in these and so if if there's like

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Speaker 1: a misspelling or if there's something that would mess up

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Speaker 1: trying to index something. So I also was kind of like,

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Speaker 1: are you trying to get around something I don't know about.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that was my big and I have no idea,

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Speaker 3: but that was my thought because they're so everything is

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Speaker 3: so egregiously misspelled that it almost is like this has

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Speaker 3: to be some rich guy way of not having your

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Speaker 3: crimes getting found out later or something.

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Speaker 2: Otherwise you just really couldn't be type like that's.

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Speaker 1: How do you get those bottom quotation marks. I really

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Speaker 1: have to go out of your way to do that.

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Speaker 4: What I'm saying, I mean, we know the actual like

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Speaker 4: intelligence is not as intelligent as we think they are

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Speaker 4: when it comes to white men.

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Speaker 3: So hellmo hell I mean they were putting this stuff

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Speaker 3: in writing, and it was like, yeah, don't put your

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Speaker 3: crimes in writing.

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Speaker 2: However, I've said this so many times.

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Speaker 3: There's nothing when when when it's like, oh, we've released

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Speaker 3: the emails, I'm like, well, I'm gonna read every single one.

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Speaker 2: I I there's just something about people.

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Speaker 3: Writing emails that they don't realize they're going to be

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Speaker 3: read later in a deposition or made public in a

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Speaker 3: deposition or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I should give a big caveat that.

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Speaker 3: Just because somebody knew Epstein and associated with him and

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Speaker 3: emailed with him, does not necessarily mean that they did

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Speaker 3: something criminal. When a lot of these people have been asked,

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Speaker 3: people are mostly like, oh, I didn't know him like that.

444
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 3: But at the same time, it is not like what

445
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 3: Epstein was doing was a secret. Right in twenty eleven,

446
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 3: mind you, this is two years after Epstein was convicted

447
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 3: of a sex crime against a minor. Bill Gates told

448
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 3: The New York Times about Epstein, quote, his lifestyle is

449
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,640
Speaker 3: very different and kind of intriguing, although it would never

450
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 3: work for me. So you're not going to ever convince

451
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 3: me that Bill Gates had no idea he was associating

452
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 3: with somebody who committed sex crimes against miners. When he

453
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 3: was saying, like, you're just not going to be able

454
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 3: to convince me that he didn't know what was going on,

455
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 3: which is what he says now. When Epstein was donating

456
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 3: money to the MIT Media Lab, for instance, the staff

457
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: at MIT had a whole system for flagging Epstein's donations

458
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 3: using the code name Voldemort or he who shall not

459
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 3: be named, specifically to obscure where that money came from,

460
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 3: because he had already been convicted of sex crimes. So, yeah,

461
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,479
Speaker 3: these people knew this was not a big secret people

462
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 3: now who were like, oh, I had no idea.

463
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: I don't know.

464
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,959
Speaker 3: I have a hard time believing some of the people

465
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 3: who are going out of their way to say this now.

466
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I also think some of the things we're hearing,

467
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: especially like Megan Kelly being like there's a difference between

468
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,439
Speaker 1: a five year old and fifteen year old, I feel

469
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: like that we're also having to confront that older men

470
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: do this, yeah, and have been doing it forever, and

471
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: we've kind of societally been like, oh, that's his lifestyle

472
00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: or yeah, that's yeah, that's what he's into. Gross.

473
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the way Bill Gates is like, oh, his

474
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 3: lifestyle is certainly intriguing to me, Homie. Those are sex

475
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 3: crimes against kids. It's kind of lifestyle choice. We're not

476
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 3: talking about like being vegan. We're talking about a entire

477
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 3: network designed to traffic children for sex crime. Like, I

478
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 3: think you're exactly right, and I do think we should

479
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,959
Speaker 3: talk about that because I think when we make Epstein

480
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,959
Speaker 3: into a solo monster, which she definitely is a monster,

481
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 3: but it makes it easy to not look at some

482
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 3: of the ways these attitudes really do show up all

483
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 3: over the place. Right, you don't have to be flying

484
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 3: in girls on your private plane nicknamed the Lolita Express,

485
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: to have really messed up attitudes about young girls. I

486
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 3: was just reading an article about how a AI company

487
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 3: was used to deep fake images of girls to make

488
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 3: deep fake nudes, and they had used specifically yearbook pictures,

489
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: and it was like one of the headlines I'd read

490
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 3: was something to the effect of women's yearbook pictures used

491
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 3: for deep fakes.

492
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 2: I got to thinking, I'm a grown woman.

493
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 3: I have not taken a yearbook photo since I have

494
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 3: become an adult, because it is not grown adult women

495
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 3: who take yearbook photos.

496
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 2: It's children because they are in school.

497
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: So why did this headline say that it was women's

498
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 3: yearbook photos, as if these.

499
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 2: Women were adults. Anybody who's getting.

500
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 3: A yearbook photo unless you've got some other situation going on,

501
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: maybe you're a teacher. You're usually a child. You're in school,

502
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 3: you're in K through twelve education.

503
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 4: Mm hm oh. Yeah, I was looking because I saw

504
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 4: that headline too, and some of the advertisements for those sides.

505
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 4: Did you see that it said the AI girls will

506
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 4: never say no to Yeah?

507
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

508
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 4: It was so disturbing that obviously there was so many

509
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,959
Speaker 4: implications into these things in a like date rape culture,

510
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 4: but also coming back to the fact that yes, these

511
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 4: girls look like they're in school.

512
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and something about the way that the Megan Kelly thing,

513
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 3: you know, Meghan Kelly has a daughter who is like

514
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 3: fifteen sixteen, And I think especially for a parent or

515
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 3: somebody who spends a lot of time around a fifteen

516
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 3: sixteen year old to make it sound like because a

517
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 3: lot of people will say like, oh, well, she looked

518
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 3: older or seemed older. When you're around a fifteen year old,

519
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 3: you really have a front row seat to the ways

520
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 3: in which they are obviously very much kids.

521
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 2: And I just think it's just it's hard.

522
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 3: For me to wrap my head around somebody who could

523
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 3: be spending time with a fifteen year old and not

524
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 3: be like, this is a child. You know, there's there's

525
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 3: it's it's I just I really can't. If you spend

526
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 3: any time around, if you've got teenagers yourself, you really

527
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 3: see the ways every day in which they are just kids.

528
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 3: And it really is shocking to me that someone who

529
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 3: is around a fifteen year old every day, but really

530
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:13,239
Speaker 3: anybody would make it seem like somehow because they're not

531
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: a toddler it's it's different, you know, and I know

532
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 3: that there are there are when it comes to like,

533
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: you know, professionals who study this kind of thing, they

534
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 3: have different designations. But really, you know, a sex crime

535
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 3: against a minor is a sex crime against a minor.

536
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and it just feels like such a if

537
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: you have to explain that you're already in the something

538
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: has gone wrong, something has gone wrong.

539
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes.

540
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 3: If you find yourself saying something like that, something's up,

541
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 3: like you need to you just to like run it

542
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 3: back exactly.

543
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: Well, I guess we should get into Larry Summers quite pathetic,

544
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: quite pathetic emails.

545
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 2: Oh my god, pathetic is the word for it.

546
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 3: So in this new drop of emails we get some

547
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 3: more insight until the relationship that Larry Summers had with

548
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein, and it's a weird one. So Summers described

549
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 3: Epstein as his quote wingman. So from these emails we

550
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 3: learn that Larry Summers was really hung up on trying

551
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 3: to pursue a romantic relationship with a student that he

552
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 3: referred to as his mentee, and he consistently sought advice

553
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 3: from Epstein about how to best do this. From November

554
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen to July twenty nineteen. Text messages and emails

555
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 3: show that Larry Summers consistently asked Epstein for advice about

556
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 3: this relationship. Epstein responded eagerly, offering encouragement and tips, even

557
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: calling himself summers wingman in a message from November twenty eighteen.

558
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 3: Maybe don't get a convicted sex crime against kids. Maybe

559
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 3: don't seek this person out for advice on how to

560
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: get your mentee who is also a student, to have

561
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: sex with you, especially when you are married, which, by

562
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 3: the way, Larry Summers was when all of this.

563
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: Was going down.

564
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: Yes, and also just a note he was contacting Epstein

565
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: until he went to jail.

566
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: Yes, the guy finds so wild.

567
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 3: So to make it clear, this contact was happening well

568
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 3: after Epstein's initial conviction on sex crimes against kids back

569
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 3: in two thousand and eight.

570
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: And you are so right, Annie.

571
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: The back and forth exchanges that Larry Summers had with

572
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein, they only ended the day before Epstein was

573
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: arrested again on new federal sex trafficking charges. So that

574
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 3: means they were like bud bud buds, Like if the

575
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 3: back and forth about how to get your mentee to

576
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 3: sleep with you only stopped because this man got arrested

577
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 3: on federal sex trafficking charges.

578
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: Y'all were in deep.

579
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: They were like thickest thieves as far as I'm concerned.

580
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 4: Like because someone was looking at the mail and you

581
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 4: would have to do it by hand, like it is insane,

582
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 4: That is insane.

583
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 3: I do want to get into the meat of some

584
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: of these messages because I think they're very revealing about

585
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 3: what kind of person was actually, you know, at the

586
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: Helm at Harvard. So at one point, Summers told Epstein

587
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 3: that he was worried that maybe his Minty didn't want

588
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 3: to pursue a romantic or sexual relationship with him, because

589
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 3: maybe she just wanted to keep things professional. He said,

590
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 3: quote think for now, I'm going nowhere with her except economics,

591
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 3: mentor boring. Summers wrote on November twenty eighteen. I think

592
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 3: I'm right now in the seem very warmly in the

593
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 3: rear view mirror category. She must be very confused or

594
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 3: maybe wants to cut me off, but wants professional connection

595
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 3: a lot, so she holds to it.

596
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: Summers wrote in March twenty.

597
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: Nineteen, basically saying that like, oh like, I like her

598
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 3: and maybe she likes me, but she just wants to

599
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 3: keep me around for professional reasons.

600
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: Mind you, this he describe he is her mentor.

601
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 3: So it's like, oh, she only wants me to like

602
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 3: give her economics guidance and education a little lowering.

603
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 2: So who was this student in question?

604
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 3: According to the Harvard Crimson and at least some of

605
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 3: its exchanges with Epstein on the relationship, Summers appears to

606
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 3: refer to economist ky eu Jin, a tenured professor at

607
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: the London School of Economics at the time, who is

608
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 3: mentioned in a series of late twenty eighteen messages between

609
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 3: the two men. So I actually knew who she was

610
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 3: before this all came to life, because she's a pretty

611
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 3: prominent person. She goes on all the big podcasts like

612
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: she is a pretty prominent career and is I would say,

613
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 3: a public figure at this point. So I mentioned this

614
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: because look how grossly Larry Summers talks about this person

615
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 3: who at the time was his mentor. Larry Summers was

616
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 3: forwarding academic work that she would send to.

617
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: Him to Epstein, so like, here's my paper, and.

618
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: Then he's like, I gotta get I gotta get Epstein's

619
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 3: eyes on this so some forwarded Epstein an email from

620
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 3: Gin which she was asking for feedback on a paper

621
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 3: that she had written, and then Summers used to Epstein

622
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 3: that it was probably appropriate to hold off on responding.

623
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 3: So he's really doing that thing of like, ooh, like

624
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: when should I text back?

625
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: Like is it like.

626
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 3: Should I give her her paper feedback today? Or does

627
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 3: that look too eager? Epstein replied, quote, she's already beginning

628
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 3: spelled wrong to sound needy, smiley face emoji nice. Now

629
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 3: Gin is Chinese, and at one point Summers wrote quote

630
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 3: capital you lowercase are better at understanding Chinese women than

631
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: at probability theory.

632
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: Larry wrote to Epstein. They used to also refer to

633
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: her as this nickname peril, right, So like when I

634
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: saw this, I was like, like, where did this nickname

635
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: come from?

636
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: Apparently this nickname might be drawn from the racist quote

637
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 3: yellow Peril trope of the late nineteenth and twentieth century,

638
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 3: which was used to stoke fear that Asian immigrants, especially

639
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: Chinese and Japanese people, were a danger or a threat

640
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 3: to westerners. Just real cool and classy conversations to be

641
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 3: putting in writing with that convicted sex criminal.

642
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 4: Right, literally during that time is when they also made

643
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 4: this fear that all Asian women were prostitutes. So that

644
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 4: that was that implication of this level of Asian feticism

645
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 4: that began in that propaganda.

646
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and was continued in these messages.

647
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: From twenty eighteen.

648
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, Like, I just like.

649
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like yeah, yep, yep, yep.

650
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 3: So Epstein and Larry Summers were also financially entangled, which

651
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: is an Epstein classic. Summers traveled on Epstein's private plane,

652
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 3: which was nicknamed the Lolita Express, on at least four occasions,

653
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 3: including at least three times while Summers was the president

654
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 3: of Harvard. Summers also met more than a dozen times

655
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 3: with Epstein and solicited donations from him for his wife,

656
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 3: who was a Harvard English professor, Alisa Knew. The messages

657
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 3: released showed that Somers was trying to organize visits to

658
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 3: Harvard on Epstein's behalf to discuss his wife's poetry work.

659
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 2: So just really not smart.

660
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 3: I will say that Harvard did put out a report

661
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 3: about their connection to Epstein, and it seems like before

662
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: Epstein was convicted in two thousand and eight, he did

663
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 3: donate I think nine million dollars to Harvard, and after

664
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 3: he was convicted did visit campus.

665
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 2: Quite a bit.

666
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 3: So it does seem like the calls were sort of

667
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: coming from inside the ivy of the university, if you

668
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 3: know what I mean. But having the president of Harvard

669
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 3: associating with somebody who had already been convicted of sex

670
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,919
Speaker 3: crimes against miners, it's not a good look, to say

671
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 3: the least. It's definitely not good judgment. Now, if only

672
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 3: there had been some clue to tip us off that

673
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 3: perhaps Larry Summers was a creep who could not be

674
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 3: trusted in positions of authority around young women and co eds.

675
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,959
Speaker 2: Oh wait a minute, because that's exactly what we fink got.

676
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 3: Because I mentioned that Larry Summers was formerly the president

677
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 3: of Harvard University, not just a professor there, lucky is

678
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 3: Now why was he forced to resign? You ask the

679
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 3: attitudes toward women. Where there is smoke, there is fire,

680
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 3: My friends, this should not be surprising to anybody. Unfortunately, no,

681
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 3: And I guess it's like why I wanted to talk

682
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 3: about this is like we had a whole converse. It

683
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 3: was a national conversation around two thousand and five, two

684
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 3: thousand and six about what kind of person Larry Summers was.

685
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 3: And it's just wild to be like, oh, we're that

686
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 3: guy's still in the mix.

687
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: We're still talking about that guy.

688
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 3: Yes, because these people they're never pushed out when like

689
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 3: it's clear something is going on. The thing that really

690
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 3: sunk Somers's ten year as president of Harvard who remarks

691
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 3: that he made in two thousand and five at an

692
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 3: economics conference. So Summers was talking about why there are

693
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 3: so few women in STEM fields, and he won the

694
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 3: reason why there aren't more women in these fields just

695
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 3: because women are just naturally and innately stupid and also

696
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 3: bad at things. He laid out three kind of potential

697
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 3: hypotheses for what's going on. One is that women want

698
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 3: more work life balance than men, so they can't succeed

699
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 3: in these fields as much as men. He was likeah,

700
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 3: it's probably not it. Two gender discrimination, which he basically

701
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, I don't think so. And then the

702
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 3: one that he really kind of double clicked on was

703
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: the idea that women are just biologically worse at the

704
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 3: traits that one needs to succeed in STEM, which is

705
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 3: basically where he landed. He argued that the gender gap

706
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 3: in stem must be biological, specifically differences in intrinsic aptitude,

707
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 3: and that men and women might have different variabilities in

708
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 3: certain traits like math or science ability, meaning that more

709
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 3: men would just naturally occupy more top positions in those fields.

710
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 3: He tried to back this up with like behavioral genetics research,

711
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 3: claiming that some attributes once thought to come from socialization

712
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: may actually have you know, biological components. I will say

713
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 3: he did say when this kind of became a controversy,

714
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 3: he was like, oh, I thought this was meant to

715
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 3: be kind of an off the record safe space for

716
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,919
Speaker 3: bad opinions about gender. So like, my bad, I didn't

717
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 3: know we were gonna be like telling everybody about what

718
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 3: it was being said here.

719
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: Oh that's another in the long line. We've been talking

720
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: a lot lately about and even with you, Bridget we've

721
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: discussed this before, but about men using those terms like

722
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: safe space completely incorrectly. And also it's kind of like,

723
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: no wonder women might not want to work with you

724
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: who has the power because you treat them as a

725
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: dating opportunity, your chance to have sex. Guess what, they

726
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: don't want to be involved in that, and you're the

727
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: one making these decisions.

728
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 3: Exactly that, Like, these things are so clearly linked. The

729
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 3: fact that he got up on a stage and said this,

730
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 3: and the fact that he was creepily pursuing his mentee

731
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 3: and sending her fucking like academic papers to a convicted pedophile,

732
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 3: these things are all linked, right, And I will just

733
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 3: say this, He also picked a terrible time to say

734
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: these things, because he said these things against the backdrop

735
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 3: of Harvard facing, according to the Crimson, widespread faculty criticism

736
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 3: following reports that women received only four of the thirty

737
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 3: two ten year offers from the Faculty of Arts and

738
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 3: Sciences that year. Right, So, like there was already like

739
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 3: a brew haha about women and whether or not they

740
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 3: were included and represented at Harvard.

741
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: And he gets this, Jack gets on stage and says

742
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: these things.

743
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 4: Right.

744
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 3: I wish that we could go back to that time

745
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 3: and have a different conversation about it, because I think

746
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 3: we'd be in a different place. Right now, I will

747
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 3: say that Summers apologize and clarify that he does not

748
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: believe that women are intellectually inferior. What a nice guy,

749
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 3: definitely a great president at Harvard. But this was all

750
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 3: so like not an isolated thing with him. He used

751
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 3: to joke about women's intelligence quite often, apparently, and talked

752
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 3: about what he described as excessive penalties for men who

753
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: hit on women in the workplace. Surprise, surprise, he was

754
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 3: actively hitting on his mentee at an academic institution. I

755
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 3: was like, are we being too hard on men who

756
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 3: just try to hit on women at work?

757
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: He would think that, he wouldn't me.

758
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 4: He sounds like the guy who's like, we can't talk

759
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 4: to women at all anymore. I can't be like touching

760
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 4: them though it's against the rules now, Like.

761
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: What, yes, you behave that way?

762
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, women these days can't even try to cheat on

763
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 3: your wife with them or.

764
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: What good time with them?

765
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 3: So I should add that when this was going on,

766
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 3: a lot of people in the Harvard community did stick

767
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 3: up for him, but ultimately Harvard's board voted no confidence.

768
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 3: This controversy really lingered until eventually Larry Summers resigned from

769
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 3: his role as president of Harvard the next year. But

770
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 3: don't worry, two years later, President Obama named Somers as

771
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 3: the director of the National Economic Council. Because he always

772
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 3: lands on his feet, This one.

773
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 4: The like comeback of white men. It really is like

774
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 4: amazing to say, like we talk about how women like

775
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 4: the bootstrapping theory, this, this is why that's not a thing,

776
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 4: Like bootstrap thing is not a thing because we see this,

777
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 4: like men who should be taken down always bounce back,

778
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 4: like they all because of connections, no matter what happens.

779
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 3: And like some of the stuff that he was saying

780
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 3: to students and around campus, he we know from the

781
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 3: release of these emails that he was also saying the

782
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 3: same stuff to Epstein, which really isn't surprising.

783
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: He retread that same terrain that he got it.

784
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 3: Years after getting in trouble for this stuff at Harvard,

785
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 3: he continued to say this kind of stuff to Epstein.

786
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 3: In twenty seventeen, he wrote this old gem, saying that

787
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 3: he had a quote observed that half the IQ in

788
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 3: the world was possessed by women, without mentioning that they

789
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 3: are more than fifty one percent of the population. Oh good, one,

790
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 3: it's not even a good joke, Like if you're gonna

791
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 3: there are you shouldn't be making jokes with this about women.

792
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 3: But it's not even like, in my opinion, not even

793
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 3: a very good joke.

794
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: No, no, And it's I I mean all of this

795
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: is disgusting and horrific. But it is, going back twice

796
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: said earlier, very pathetic that you would have to reach

797
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 1: out to a convicted sex predator to get late because

798
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: he's very like he has one email that says something like,

799
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: I just need to get horizontal help. Yeah, yes, what

800
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: is wrong with you? Bro?

801
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: You are the president of Harvard to show something like

802
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: act like it.

803
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 3: It's something you know, A therapist once told me that

804
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 3: men in power their need to have sex with people

805
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 3: that they should not be having sex with.

806
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 2: It makes them so small.

807
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 3: And it's so true that like, you are the president

808
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 3: of HERT and you're putting in an email that you

809
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 3: just need to get horizontal. Bro to Jeffrey Epstein about

810
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 3: your men tee, that is a problem that is not

811
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 3: like I just yeah, And I think it really speaks

812
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 3: to the fact that I'm sure I've said this before,

813
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 3: I don't trust any institution where there are not women

814
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 3: all up and through at the tippy tippy top. If

815
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 3: it's all men or mostly men left to their own devices,

816
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 3: I don't care if it's an ivy, the university, the military,

817
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 3: the Catholic priesthood, anything, the NFL. If you don't got

818
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 3: women all up and through at the tippy top. I

819
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 3: don't trust it. Something's going on. Some shouldn't put in emails.

820
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: That shouldn't be put in emails.

821
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 4: And why does they sell the emails sound like nineteen ninety

822
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 4: five boys? Like it was really like I'm just the

823
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 4: wording like the faces I have made throughout this whole episode,

824
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 4: like it's just discussed and shocked because I'm like, why

825
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 4: are you saying? Why are you sounding like my eighteen

826
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 4: year old nephew right now? What is wrong with you?

827
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the same breath, it'll be like I got

828
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: to get horizontal bro winki face, and then it'll be like, oh,

829
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 3: what are your.

830
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: Thoughts on Trump? Don't you think he's a buffoon?

831
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 3: And it's like, I think that might be the buffoon

832
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 3: calling the buffoon a buffoon.

833
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 4: All one in the saying what is happening?

834
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 2: It's bad.

835
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 3: So the fallout from Larry Summers's relationship with Epstein being

836
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 3: made clear, I actually feel like it's been pretty minimal.

837
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 2: Honestly.

838
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 3: Initially, after making that statement, he said that he was

839
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 3: going to be stepping back from public roles, but continue

840
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 3: was going to be continuing teaching at Harvard, so he's

841
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 3: currently like a faculty member at Harvard.

842
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 2: There was a video. Maybe I'll put the audio in

843
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 2: if I can find it.

844
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 3: There's a video of him starting his class a couple

845
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 3: of days ago, basically with an apology to students, being like, oh,

846
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 3: I'm sorry that I was friends with Epstein.

847
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: With your permission, I'd like to.

848
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 3: Just like Kinchin, you talking about economics and class now. So,

849
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 3: after he announced that he was going to be not

850
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 3: stepping back from teaching, he eventually did reverse course and

851
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 3: said that he was going to be stepping back for

852
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: the moment. He does have ten years, so it's not

853
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 3: like he was fired and who knows what will happen,

854
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 3: you know next, but Ta's are going to finish off

855
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 3: the rest of his class with a semester. He also

856
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 3: resigned from the board of open Ai, the company that

857
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 3: makes chat GPT, and Harvard is launching an investigation into

858
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 3: his connections with Epstein, which, yeah, I'll say they should.

859
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren, who is a law professor at Harvard, has

860
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 3: urged the university to cut ties with him. And I

861
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 3: guess the reason that I wanted to talk about this

862
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 3: is because.

863
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: You know, when I was doing research.

864
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 3: One of the big pieces that I read to prepare

865
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 3: for this conversation was this piece in The Times about

866
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 3: whether or not Summers could mount a comeback since he's

867
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 3: bounced back so many times in the past. Now, this

868
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 3: piece in the Time published the day that Summers announced

869
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 3: that he was going to be temporarily stepping back from

870
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 3: his classes, and I just hated that the conversation was

871
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 3: being framed just a few hours after he announced he

872
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 3: was just stepping down temporarily, as like, well, Kenna's career

873
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 3: be saved.

874
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 2: He's seventy years old.

875
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 3: I don't think that him being relieved from being in

876
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 3: a position to be around young, you know, co eds

877
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 3: and students and to have this relationship where he is

878
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 3: inherently of an authority figure to people like that.

879
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 2: I don't think that's like ruining his life, you know

880
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 2: what I'm saying.

881
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 3: Like the fact that it was even phrased that way

882
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 3: really bothered me. And Alejandro Carbalo, who is a clinical

883
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 3: instructor at Harvard Law Cyberclinic, commented online quote, it is

884
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 3: not normal for a professor to start a class discussing

885
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 3: how they regret being best buddies with a child sex trafficker,

886
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 3: and honestly I have to agree, right, we cannot. This

887
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 3: is not an apologize and move on and continue with

888
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 3: the economics lesson kind of thing. This is a pretty

889
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 3: big deal that when we should be treating it like

890
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 3: it's a pretty big deal.

891
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 2: And I think especially.

892
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 3: Someone like Larry Summers, who at the very least has

893
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 3: over and over again proven himself to have pretty bad

894
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 3: judgment when it comes to women.

895
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,399
Speaker 2: Having this person have.

896
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 3: Roles where he is so involved in hands on about

897
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 3: shaping what the future of technology looks like through things

898
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 3: like a board position at Open AI. I just think

899
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 3: that we really have to think about what that means

900
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 3: and whether or not men like this are who we

901
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 3: want shaping the future of how technology shows up in

902
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 3: all of our lives, right, Like, I certainly do not

903
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 3: trust somebody like Larry Summers to be making decisions about

904
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 3: what our shared future is going to look like.

905
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 4: I'm honestly so disturbed by the mere fact that people

906
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 4: are ignoring the fact that heat for once, Like, I'm

907
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 4: sure there's so many other instances of like sexual harassment,

908
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 4: Like she actually said, I don't want to do this.

909
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 4: Can we keep this professional and her life is probably

910
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 4: being up ended, Like I cannot imagine what she like

911
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 4: the trauma and the shock she's going through seeing these

912
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 4: emails of not only that, having the name of Epstein,

913
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 4: like if she didn't know him, she hadn't met him,

914
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 4: and knowing all the things about him, and she was like, oh,

915
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 4: I literally was being trafficked, like groom trafficked and kind

916
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 4: of in a way with this dude who traffics and

917
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 4: grooms women and like as his profession, Like that's what

918
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 4: he was doing. And this man who I trusted, was

919
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 4: getting like territorial slash predatorial advice for me when all

920
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,720
Speaker 4: I'm trying to do is survive and get an education

921
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 4: and move on in this life. Like there's so much

922
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 4: to this.

923
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's not like she asked to be involved

924
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 3: in this, And I should say, and in case it's

925
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 3: not clear, we don't even know that she had any

926
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 3: concept of the that this was going on, that her

927
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 3: mentor at Harvard was forwarding her perfectly reasonable emails and

928
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 3: papers and work to Jeffrey Epstein. It is it just

929
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 3: is really we should be treating it as a shocking

930
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 3: and unacceptable thing because it is. And I guess where

931
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 3: I land is that we really cannot keep acting shocked

932
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 3: when powerful institutions protect powerful men who have these like

933
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 3: long and well documented histories of bad judgment, sexist thinking,

934
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 3: and frankly ethically grotesque associations. Right, It's not like Summer's

935
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 3: just had one bad quote. He had an entire legacy

936
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 3: of things like minimizing discrimination, joking about women in the workplace,

937
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 3: letting Epstein fund his wife's projects, and treating young women

938
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 3: like his mentee like a conquest that he could gain

939
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 3: theory his way into getting horizontal with and then describing

940
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 3: it in the crudest ways impossible. Right, Like and Harvard,

941
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 3: the US government, tech companies, the media all kept continuing

942
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 3: to give him power. The New York Times writing an

943
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 3: article the day that it becomes clear that he's going

944
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 3: to step back temporarily teaching, asking about the state of

945
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 3: his career and whether or not he can come back

946
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 3: and bounce it back from this is exactly what I mean.

947
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's like one of the memes that I've

948
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 1: seen going around is like something that finally brings all

949
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: men of any religion, of any together, is that they

950
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: will use young girls this way. And one of the

951
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: things that really frustrates me about this conversation is that, like,

952
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: even going back to the Bill Clinton thing, who do

953
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: we immediately are like, we got to protect Bill Clinton.

954
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: Who are we like, oh, we got to protect Larry Summers. No,

955
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: we're not talking about the people who were hurt by this.

956
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: You just want to know that this guy's career is

957
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 1: safe and he's fine, He's doing fine.

958
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 3: He is seventy years old. I don't want to sound ageist.

959
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 3: I just feel like at seventy years old, if you're

960
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 3: this kind of person, maybe we don't need you. Like

961
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 3: what I'm you know, I'm saying like maybe you living

962
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 3: a private life with your wife, who now knows all

963
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 3: about the emails you were sending about your mentee. Maybe

964
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 3: that is fine. Maybe we don't want you to talk

965
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 3: about that. Like it's the biggest tragedy that somebody like

966
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 3: Larry Summers doesn't get to have this role of authority

967
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 3: and this role of influential.

968
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 2: Power both over you know, Carbarde.

969
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 3: Students, but also over all of us, right, because if

970
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 3: you're sitting on the board at open AI, you do

971
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 3: have some power over us. You have you you're making

972
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 3: decisions and you're you're putting out technology.

973
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 2: That is going to go on to shape all of

974
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 2: our lives.

975
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,919
Speaker 3: And I completely agree with you, Annie, I just really

976
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 3: it bothers me that when the conversation is framed about

977
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,919
Speaker 3: what's going to happen to poor Larry Summers, He's gonna

978
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 3: be fine.

979
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 2: He's gonna be completely fine.

980
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 4: Literally the system was built for him, like for him

981
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 4: to be fine. The fact that he can really be like,

982
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 4: ah my bad, bro, we cool like that literally was

983
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 4: a apology, like yeah, not even like conversation about the

984
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 4: fact that, yes, he was using his authority and power

985
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 4: to go after women that he's like this is this

986
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 4: is definitely normal for me as a professor and president

987
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 4: of a school to try to be like intimidate women

988
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 4: into sleeping with me. And then you know, there are

989
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 4: so many other things, but like the fact that he

990
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 4: can come back and be like, ah my bad. But

991
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 4: you know we're moving on, right, let me talk about economics,

992
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 4: and that seems like okay, that sounds about right. This

993
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:33,479
Speaker 4: is nothing to that doesn't affect you as a person,

994
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 4: so it's fine as a teacher.

995
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 3: And so when these rules, when people decide that because

996
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,959
Speaker 3: they are powerful or influential, these rules don't apply to them.

997
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 3: I think it's really a problem when you get to say, oh,

998
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 3: well I did this, but I to just go on

999
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 3: and continue my lesson for today. No, you don't write.

1000
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 3: And I think that they're saying that for a long time,

1001
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 3: the rules did not apply to powerful people. And the

1002
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: question is whether or not we want to live in

1003
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 3: a world where that is the case, right? Do we

1004
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 3: want to live in a world where someone like this

1005
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 3: gets to do things like this and just go on

1006
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 3: to finish their economics lesson for the day?

1007
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 2: I say no?

1008
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 3: And so I think as we watch what comes out

1009
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 3: of this Department of Justice release with the Epstein files,

1010
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 3: I hope we can like resist this idea of using

1011
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 3: it to talk about like whether or not someone's career

1012
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 3: is going to be impacted or all of that. I

1013
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 3: think truly this will likely touch every corner of power, academia, politics, entertainment, tech, finance,

1014
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 3: and we should be talking about accountability, right, We should

1015
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,720
Speaker 3: be talking about like centering the people who were harmed,

1016
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 3: regardless of the resumes and power and influence of the

1017
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 3: people who were doing the harming. I think that is

1018
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,720
Speaker 3: the bare minimum and ultimately I don't think the people

1019
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 3: shaping the future should be taking advice from a convicted

1020
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 3: child sex predator on how to pursue women at their age.

1021
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 3: I think that is a whole, totally reasonable standard to set.

1022
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 3: And I will die on this hill.

1023
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't care if it makes me

1024
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 2: sound like an instrumist. I will die on the pill.

1025
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 4: Oh. I mean, I think a lot of pod bros

1026
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 4: Are going to be mad at you about that.

1027
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: Come at me bros, them and their Pizzagate And now

1028
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: they're like, this is no information though I know it's because.

1029
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 3: If you if you go back and look at like

1030
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:30,240
Speaker 3: QAnon and Pizzagate, it's like you have emails that Hillary

1031
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 3: Clinton wrote to Podesta that are like, oh, should we

1032
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 3: get some pizza later? And people are like, but if

1033
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 3: you replaced pizza with children, think about it then. And

1034
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 3: then you have Epstein putting like up for sex crimes

1035
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 3: later and it's like, well.

1036
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no, no, we don't know.

1037
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: What that means. That means that's out a context.

1038
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 2: Exactly.

1039
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,280
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, So if the Department of Justice releases these files,

1040
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 3: I'm sure we're going to have a lot more to

1041
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 3: just but that's where we're at for right now.

1042
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 4: Who Yeah, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton are on that list.

1043
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 4: Yeah they should also be locked up.

1044
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead.

1045
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 3: But yeah, if anybody who is shown to have committed

1046
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: a crime should be locked up. That's the thing is, like,

1047
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 3: I don't want abusers on my team, and I don't

1048
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: think that I think that we're being sold this idea

1049
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 3: of tribalism of like, oh, are you going to care

1050
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 3: if it's your favorite entertainer or your favorite you know,

1051
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 3: celebrity who gets taken down?

1052
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 2: No, because I don't want that.

1053
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 3: I don't want a person who is a criminal walking free,

1054
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 3: even if it's somebody who I happen to.

1055
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 2: Be politically aligned with or like enjoy their work.

1056
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 4: I mean, I haven't stopped watching many of shows because

1057
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 4: many of the celebrities have disappointed me and have shown

1058
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 4: their true color. So putting on my bane list, let's go.

1059
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, well we shall see, we shall see what happens,

1060
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: and I'm sure we will come back discuss this more.

1061
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 1: And yeah, thank you so much, Bridget for breaking down

1062
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: such an intense topic for us.

1063
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

1064
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,919
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, you all, even though it's horrifying, you all

1065
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 3: made it.

1066
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: A little less so yes, and now we might watch

1067
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: the Social Network together and be kind of horrified about

1068
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: some realities.

1069
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 2: But I'm excited they're making a sequel.

1070
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: They're making a sequel.

1071
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 3: Jeremy Strong is gonna play Zuckerberg like a later version

1072
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 3: of Zuckerberg in the sequel.

1073
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 2: I know this sounds look it up. I read it.

1074
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:40,439
Speaker 2: I read it in Deadline. Look it up.

1075
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 4: Are they gonna have the moments where he and Elon

1076
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 4: Musk might fight?

1077
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 2: Oh?

1078
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 3: I was just talking about that on a podcast. I mean,

1079
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 3: say what you will about Mark Zuckerberg. Zuckerberg would drop

1080
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 3: Elon Musk like a sack of potato.

1081
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 2: Say what you will. You know I hate Zuckerberg.

1082
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 3: I hate them both, absolutely going Zuckerberg on this one.

1083
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: I hope they have the scene and when he's on

1084
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: the wakeboard and he's just tale translation, Yeah, I really

1085
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: want that to be in the movie and like sad,

1086
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 1: like adult midlife crisis music playing. Yeah, that's what I want.

1087
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 3: My partner's mom when we showed her that picture, she

1088
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 3: just said, what a dweeb. And I'll never forget it

1089
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,919
Speaker 3: because I don't think I've ever heard somebody call someone

1090
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 3: else Adweb.

1091
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like yes, deweb, but you are correct. You

1092
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 1: are correct? Yeah, yeah, flor Well something to look forward to.

1093
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: Question in the meantime, Bridget where can the good listeners

1094
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 1: find you?

1095
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 2: You can listen to my podcast there are No Girls

1096
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,359
Speaker 2: on the Internet. You can follow me on Instagram at

1097
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 2: bridget Ryan DC, on TikTok at bridget Ryan DC, and

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Speaker 2: on YouTube at there are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 1: And definitely go check that out if you haven't already listeners.

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Speaker 1: If you would like to email us, you can. Our

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Speaker 1: email is Hello Stuffmannever Told You dot com from Blue Sky,

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Speaker 1: a podcast and on Instagram and chiktok it stuff I

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Speaker 1: Never Told You for us on YouTube. We have a

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Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you can get your books,

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Speaker 1: and we have new merchandise have com Hero. Thanks as

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Speaker 1: always too our superroducer Christine or executive ducer by and

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Speaker 1: contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for listening.

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Speaker 1: Stuff Never Told You is production by Heart Radio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out

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Speaker 1: the heart Radio Apple podcast. Wherever you listen to your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows,