Speaker 1: Maybe it's mabeling, but seasonal allergies have become always on
Speaker 1: for me, Like I don't even remember when the switch was,
Speaker 1: but I just know a zerteka day keeps my embarrassing
Speaker 1: sneezes and my running nose away. Yes, it feels like
Speaker 1: I am constantly reaching for my inhaler because I have
Speaker 1: the type of allergies that causes breathing problems and it
Speaker 1: is the worst. You know what it's like to just
Speaker 1: be out and being like, ooh, where's my inhaler? I
Speaker 1: feel like it's embarrassing. It shouldn't be embarrassing because it's
Speaker 1: just for my health, but it is. No, I always
Speaker 1: thought it inhaler was cool. Something about that, you know,
Speaker 1: like you just taking on that kind of wind. That
Speaker 1: was cool to me. Oh my gosh. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I've ever heard that. But I don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on. You don't know what's going on, So we
Speaker 1: should really think about talking about this today. I'm t
Speaker 1: T and I'm Zakiah, and this is Dope Labs. Welcome
Speaker 1: to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science
Speaker 1: with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. It
Speaker 1: feels like, and I'm gonna put you know, underline on fields.
Speaker 1: Feels like everybody has allergies. Honestly, I don't know a
Speaker 1: single person who doesn't. These days, like when it's springtime,
Speaker 1: everybody's you know, itchy eyes, water running nose, and even
Speaker 1: in the fall, I feel like lots of people have
Speaker 1: allergies and they're like, oh, these are my fall allergies.
Speaker 1: I don't remember it being like this when I was
Speaker 1: a kid. Now, as a kid, I did have bad allergies.
Speaker 1: I had to take this little pill and it had
Speaker 1: these little bitter pebbles inside. They weren't pebbles, they were medicine.
Speaker 1: But I couldn't swallow pills. And some of my mom
Speaker 1: used to put it in apple sauce. That was my
Speaker 1: allergy medicine, but I only took it certain times of
Speaker 1: the year. And now I have I know I'm having
Speaker 1: year long allergies, and we're in the recitation because I
Speaker 1: want to know why. Yeah, I want to know why
Speaker 1: I'm having year long allergies. Now, okay, so then what
Speaker 1: do we know? We know we're seeing some shifting allergies.
Speaker 1: I know, even if that's just my personal anecdotal evidence
Speaker 1: for me m m. Yeah. And we've talked about this
Speaker 1: during some of our live shows that we've done about
Speaker 1: how you know there's so much more pollen and it's
Speaker 1: because of these different these trees that have been planted.
Speaker 1: But I thought that was debunked. I don't know, see, Okay,
Speaker 1: So now let's just talk about what we want to know.
Speaker 1: Is it just the pollen? It can't just be the pollen,
Speaker 1: because also, doesn't it feel like food allergies are going up? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Absolutely they were at least for a while for a while,
Speaker 1: and it seems like they're going down because of some changes.
Speaker 1: But it also feels like there are a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are gluten intolerant. Wait wait, wait wait wait
Speaker 1: you said gluten intolerant. That brings up another question. Is
Speaker 1: intolerance and allergy the same thing? Ry? So see, I
Speaker 1: use allergy and intolerance the same and so, but it
Speaker 1: can't be the same. They're two different words, right, So
Speaker 1: I need to know the difference between those two because
Speaker 1: I'm not allergic to lactose, but I am lactose intolerance.
Speaker 1: Good point. See, And I also t T. I know
Speaker 1: you've seen this the Direct Consumer tests and they were
Speaker 1: doing it with genetics and all this stuff before it
Speaker 1: and now doing it with allergies. Yes, I saw it
Speaker 1: on TikTok. You know, I'm on TikTok all the time,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm not buying something like this
Speaker 1: off the TikTok shop. I don't feel like this is
Speaker 1: a sound test, But I want to know is there
Speaker 1: something to say about these at home allergy tests? Should
Speaker 1: we be doing them? I don't know. I'm pulling my
Speaker 1: blue light glasses down and looking over the top because
Speaker 1: I'm like, is that FSA and HSA eligible or are these credible?
Speaker 1: And once you start introducing user error, I am unsure. Right,
Speaker 1: every time I had to get myself a COVID test
Speaker 1: was like a doctor needs to do this, Like I
Speaker 1: can't do this to myself. Stick this up my nose. Nah,
Speaker 1: you're probably swapping the outside of your nostril. Girls, my
Speaker 1: eyelids COVID negative. This is why we need to have
Speaker 1: the experts, and we have the perfect expert for this episode.
Speaker 1: We have allergists and immunologists. Doctor perv Perik.
Speaker 2: I practice in New York City and being a private
Speaker 2: practice called Allergy and Asthma Associates of Murray Hill, but
Speaker 2: I'm also on faculty at NYU Langone. I'm a clinical
Speaker 2: assistant professor in both the medicine and pediatrics departments, and
Speaker 2: then the advocacy is a big passion of mine. So
Speaker 2: I'm also a spokesperson for a nonprofit called the Allergy
Speaker 2: Asthma Network, and it's a nonprofit for patients and their
Speaker 2: families who suffer with allergies, asthma and rare you know,
Speaker 2: immune system problems.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly why we are so glad you are here,
Speaker 1: because we hear all types of things and we're not
Speaker 1: sure what's true. Some of it feels like old lives tales,
Speaker 1: and so having you as the expert is absolutely perfect.
Speaker 1: We really want to start with the basics, like when
Speaker 1: someone says I am allergic to something, what does that
Speaker 1: mean inside of your body? What is happening?
Speaker 2: So, you know, a lot of people don't realize, but
Speaker 2: you know, allergies are basically like an overreaction of your
Speaker 2: immune system. So a lot of people label themselves as allergic,
Speaker 2: but really your immune system has to be involved in
Speaker 2: order for it to be an allergy. So your immune
Speaker 2: system normally helps you fight off infections and you know,
Speaker 2: cancer cells and other bad things you don't want happening
Speaker 2: to you. But when allergies occurs, basically your immune system
Speaker 2: has decided to fight something it shouldn't be fighting. So
Speaker 2: that could be a food like peanut or milk or eggs,
Speaker 2: or it could also be an environmental trigger like pollen
Speaker 2: or dust, smites, or animals, and even medications. We even
Speaker 2: have people develop allergies to medications, so that's essentially an
Speaker 2: allergy is it's basically an overreaction of your immune system
Speaker 2: to something.
Speaker 1: So why are our bodies being so dramatic? I mean
Speaker 1: a lot. It's our immune system confusing, right, something that's
Speaker 1: harmless for something that's harmful.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of different theories as to why
Speaker 2: that happens. In this day and age, we've noted that
Speaker 2: allergies and asthma have increased, and there's one theory behind
Speaker 2: that called the hygiene hypothesis, and that theory is that
Speaker 2: you know, we are living like too clean because you know,
Speaker 2: back in the day, when we were living on farms
Speaker 2: and touching soil more and eating like real whole foods,
Speaker 2: there were far less like allergies and asthma, but also
Speaker 2: other things like there was less autoimmune diseases, less cancers,
Speaker 2: and all of this is believed to be linked that
Speaker 2: as we like are not exposed to like kind of
Speaker 2: the good bacteria or the good micro organisms that help
Speaker 2: keep our immune system balanced, a lot of our immune
Speaker 2: systems are shifting towards allergies. So areas of the world
Speaker 2: that are still rural and not as industrialized, you know,
Speaker 2: as the Western society actually has very low rates of
Speaker 2: allergies and asthma and even the autoimmune diseases and things
Speaker 2: like that because their immune systems are processing parasites and
Speaker 2: they're on farms and being exposed to so many things,
Speaker 2: and they're not eating like processed foods, which disrupts like
Speaker 2: your gut microbiome, right, and so all of those things,
Speaker 2: believe it or not, help you not become allergic. So
Speaker 2: that's part of it. It's like modern living, you know.
Speaker 2: But the immune system is very nimble, it's very adaptive,
Speaker 2: but sometimes things can go wrong and it can react
Speaker 2: in a way you don't want it.
Speaker 1: To listen, the immune system will embarrass you. But I
Speaker 1: also feel like this is all part of the same
Speaker 1: thing we keep discovering this season, which is that these
Speaker 1: bodies are ancient. Yes, it's nimble and can adapt in
Speaker 1: short time periods like oh new protein, new thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, as I've seen that. But why are these
Speaker 1: cells dumping histamines and have in my eyes and re
Speaker 1: like it looks like I have conjunctivitis? So why is
Speaker 1: the immune system behaving like that? Like it's used to
Speaker 1: fighting parasites or words? Back before we have medicine, baby,
Speaker 1: we have bit adrill. Now I don't need that. So
Speaker 1: when we talk about having an allergic reaction to certain things,
Speaker 1: can you run through what those reactions can look like
Speaker 1: and why those types of reactions occur Because I know,
Speaker 1: for like seasonal allergies, someone may have like itchy and
Speaker 1: watery eyes, a running nose, they might have a cough.
Speaker 1: But then when you have food allergies, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: my throat is going to close up. Why are there
Speaker 1: differences in the reactions right right?
Speaker 2: And that's a great question. So you know, the immune
Speaker 2: system processes things different ways, and essentially the way that
Speaker 2: it reacts to a food can release a whole cascade
Speaker 2: of events called anaphylaxis. And to be honest, any allergen
Speaker 2: can cause it either mild or severe reaction. That when
Speaker 2: you ingest something it's you know, entered your digestive trap.
Speaker 2: Then it enters your bloodstream, and so the reaction is
Speaker 2: far more dramatic than if let's say you inhale something
Speaker 2: you know, or something is absorbed through your skin. It
Speaker 2: may be a slower moving reaction. Usually like for a
Speaker 2: airborne allergen like pollen or dust might or mold, you're
Speaker 2: inhaling it and then it goes into your respiratory track,
Speaker 2: so it really activates the immune system in your respiratory tract.
Speaker 2: So that's why you get the itchis the stuff he knows,
Speaker 2: things like that. But even that can be severe for
Speaker 2: some people because people don't realize this, but those airborne
Speaker 2: allergens can trigger asthma. If it goes low enough into
Speaker 2: your lungs and into your bronchials, it can actually trigger
Speaker 2: an asthma attack, and that actually is deadly as well.
Speaker 2: We actually have eleven deaths a day in this country
Speaker 2: still from asthma, and the most common cause is allergies,
Speaker 2: and many people don't know that there's that connection. But
Speaker 2: then you know, kind of going back to the throat closing,
Speaker 2: kind of big anaphylactic type of reaction. We think about
Speaker 2: a lot of times. We see that with foods, because
Speaker 2: you know you're ingesting the food, it's going into your body,
Speaker 2: into your bloodstream. We see that a lot with injectable
Speaker 2: medications and oral medications as well, for the same reason.
Speaker 2: It's just kind of the root of entry. But yeah,
Speaker 2: believe it or not, even those airborne things can be
Speaker 2: very severe for some people.
Speaker 1: Wow. I knew that people could die from asthma attacks,
Speaker 1: but I didn't think that it would be allergy related.
Speaker 1: I thought that it would be something else. That's wild,
Speaker 1: because I'm always so worried about your allergies and as well.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, every time we've traveled together as a kid,
Speaker 1: it's like, do you have your inhaler? And I'll be like, no,
Speaker 1: it'll be all right, I promise. And that last time
Speaker 1: when we went to Brussels, that poor air quality you meet,
Speaker 1: I was so glad I had it. But I never
Speaker 1: thought to link allergies and asthma. That's wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's actually the most common cause. And then
Speaker 2: a lot of those asthma deaths are largely preventable, So
Speaker 2: that's why it's really important to make sure if you
Speaker 2: do have that, that you're on the right treatment regimen,
Speaker 2: that your asthma's well controlled, because it's those individuals who
Speaker 2: aren't well controlled that where it turns deadly.
Speaker 1: I've also seen things that talk about how climate change
Speaker 1: also contributes to that. Do you how does that even work?
Speaker 2: No, I'm glad you brought that up, but because then
Speaker 2: it's a big factor. So what happens with climate change
Speaker 2: is that you know, the Earth is getting warmer, and
Speaker 2: because of that, pollen seasons are considerably longer. You know,
Speaker 2: they've increased as much as two weeks now than they
Speaker 2: normally would be. So when it's warmer and there's a
Speaker 2: longer pollen season, that means when the plants start producing
Speaker 2: pollen earlier and it lasts longer. But also with climate change,
Speaker 2: there's something called greenhouse gases. So we have increased levels
Speaker 2: of carbon dioxide in the air, and plants feed off
Speaker 2: of carbon dioxide the same way we take in oxygen
Speaker 2: and let out CO two, they take in CO two
Speaker 2: and let out oxygen. So not only are the seasons
Speaker 2: longer because it's warmer, but because of those higher carbon
Speaker 2: dioxide levels of plants are now becoming like super pollinators,
Speaker 2: so they're producing more pollen and for longer periods of time.
Speaker 2: So that's kind of the perfect storm for much worse
Speaker 2: and more severe allergy season. And that now is going
Speaker 2: back to what we were talking about before, causing people
Speaker 2: to have more severe allergy symptoms and even develop asthma
Speaker 2: for the first time. So every spring and every fall,
Speaker 2: I see patients come in never had asthma before in
Speaker 2: their life, now get a diagnosis of asthma and it's
Speaker 2: from their seasonal allergies. And they're always surprised when I
Speaker 2: tell them that, but because there is that link, and unfortunately,
Speaker 2: the pollen seasons are getting worse.
Speaker 1: I did not have asthma, and then I went to
Speaker 1: college and then all of a sudden developed asthma symptoms.
Speaker 1: And so I've been using in the hailer ever since.
Speaker 1: And it really felt like came out of nowhere and
Speaker 1: I developed a peanut allergy. It just feels like the
Speaker 1: entire world is turning against me. I'm like, what next
Speaker 1: am I going to be allergic to? Like all of
Speaker 1: my favorite foods, the sun, the wind, the rain. I
Speaker 1: don't know a lot of people are experiencing that.
Speaker 2: It's just the things seem to be getting worse, and
Speaker 2: people are getting more reactive to everything.
Speaker 1: As well, exactly. And one of the things that I
Speaker 1: remember from many years ago is that when folks would
Speaker 1: have babies, they would say, oh, don't have them around
Speaker 1: any nuts or anything like that, in order to not
Speaker 1: expose them to these things that seem like extreme allergens
Speaker 1: and might cause them some respiratory issues. That's so true,
Speaker 1: But then the tables turned. I said, I that's actually
Speaker 1: causing up to in penut allergies. Can you talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about what the initial thought was and then
Speaker 1: kind of the reversal of that recommendation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we actually we've seen food allergies and children increase
Speaker 2: in general over the last two to three decades. And
Speaker 2: it's not only because of that reason that we were
Speaker 2: giving it too late. It's also everything else that we
Speaker 2: talked about, like the hygiene hypothesis and all of the above.
Speaker 2: It's like a multifactorial thing. But interestingly enough, about ten
Speaker 2: to fifteen years ago, some like researchers saw that there's
Speaker 2: like very low rates peanut allergy in certain areas of
Speaker 2: the world, specifically in Israel. And they were like, why
Speaker 2: is that And they looked and they saw that they
Speaker 2: were actually feeding their children this snack called bamba, which
Speaker 2: has peanut allergen in it, like very early on, and
Speaker 2: so they were like, oh, maybe there's something to this
Speaker 2: that by introducing the allergens earlier that might prevent the onset.
Speaker 2: You know, because when babies are born, their immune systems
Speaker 2: are still developing, so that's probably the ideal time to
Speaker 2: you know, introduce something so that they don't develop it,
Speaker 2: but rather than wait till after their immune systems have
Speaker 2: already you know, chosen one path or another. So they
Speaker 2: did this very large, multi center placebo control randomized study
Speaker 2: about a decade ago where they gave one group the
Speaker 2: peanut allergy in early and then the other group place
Speaker 2: ebo and they found that, yeah, those kids that were
Speaker 2: introduced earlier did developed the peanut allergy at a much
Speaker 2: lower rate. And so that became like our new recommendations
Speaker 2: and guidelines. So now you know, for the past ten
Speaker 2: plus years, all of us have been pediatricians allergious family
Speaker 2: doctors have been encouraging early introduction at four to six
Speaker 2: months of age actually, and as a result, we just
Speaker 2: got some news that that has caused a forty three
Speaker 2: percent drop in peanut allergy in the last decade and
Speaker 2: that's amazing. So that's like sixty thousand children they estimate
Speaker 2: that did not develop peanut allergy that would have and
Speaker 2: those are lives saved, because we still see people pass
Speaker 2: away unfortunately, you know, from food allergies. And now the
Speaker 2: recommendation isn't just for peanuts. We actually recommend it for
Speaker 2: all of the nine allergiens, the high risk allergians, to
Speaker 2: introduce the foods early, between four to six months. And
Speaker 2: the caveat is for most babies that's safe and you
Speaker 2: should do it. But if you have already been diagnosed
Speaker 2: with an egg allergy by that point in time, or
Speaker 2: you have very severe ezema, then you shouldn't just jump
Speaker 2: to the early introduction. You should first consultant allergists because
Speaker 2: those are two like high risk conditions for early introductions.
Speaker 2: So for the majority of people it's recommended, but if
Speaker 2: you're in those exception groups, you know, just do so
Speaker 2: with the guidance of an allergist. And then, of course
Speaker 2: I always have to throw this plug in there, but
Speaker 2: you never want to introduce a four month old like
Speaker 2: a whole nut. Right, you have to do it in
Speaker 2: a form that's safe to eat, you know, so I
Speaker 2: don't choke, you know, like very very thin down like
Speaker 2: consistency of milk or breast milk type, you know, with
Speaker 2: the peanut butter.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think that that segues into my next question
Speaker 1: really really well, which is like at home remedies for allergies.
Speaker 1: I see a lot of stuff on TikTok that I
Speaker 1: don't think is grounded in research or in a medical
Speaker 1: professional's opinion. There are folks who are doing like allergy
Speaker 1: cleanses where they cut out whole food groups, or people
Speaker 1: who because they know that the hygiene hypothesis, they opt
Speaker 1: for a really what I feel like is unsanitary living
Speaker 1: for their children. What misconceptions can you dispel when it
Speaker 1: comes to things like this?
Speaker 2: One thing that I would say when it comes to
Speaker 2: these myths is that you know everything is good in moderation,
Speaker 2: you know, so especially you know, it's hard to tell
Speaker 2: people not to use certain like hand sanitizers and certain
Speaker 2: chemicals and things. Right when we're coming out of a pandemic,
Speaker 2: right where we were all trying to stay clean and
Speaker 2: not passed on germs from place to place. But one
Speaker 2: way I like to dispel myth is like always, you know,
Speaker 2: discuss things with your doctor. If you hear conflicting information,
Speaker 2: you know, one thing on the internet versus another place,
Speaker 2: and you're not sure who to believe, it's always best
Speaker 2: to like sit down talk to your doctor because medicine
Speaker 2: isn't black and white. There's a lot of nuance and
Speaker 2: your situation might be different than another person's situations. So
Speaker 2: that's why these like shared decision making conversations, especially with
Speaker 2: your physician, are really important to dispel a lot of
Speaker 2: these myths.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think that everyone should have an allergy test?
Speaker 1: Or do you think that there's a certain criteria that
Speaker 1: you should meet before you get an allergy test?
Speaker 2: So that's a great question. So no, we don't recommend
Speaker 2: everyone having an allergy test, and the reason for that
Speaker 2: is with any test, you know, there are false positives
Speaker 2: that come along as well as false negative So if
Speaker 2: you're not having any symptoms to anything, then you are
Speaker 2: definitely not allergic to it, you know. So a lot
Speaker 2: of people come in and say, oh, I just want
Speaker 2: to be tested for everything to see if I have
Speaker 2: any allergies. So I say, okay, well, what's been bothering you?
Speaker 2: And then they're like, oh, nothing, I feel fine. So
Speaker 2: I'm like, I can already tell you have no allergies,
Speaker 2: because even if that test shows that you're allergic to everything,
Speaker 2: I'll still tell you that you have no allergies because
Speaker 2: the energy testing is only helpful in combination with the
Speaker 2: actual clinical symptoms.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: So if you're not having any symptoms, but you test positive,
Speaker 2: you know, for a food allergy, and you tell me
Speaker 2: you're eating that food every day without any issue, you
Speaker 2: are not allergic to it, you know. So your body's
Speaker 2: response to something is the more important part of the
Speaker 2: picture than the test. The test only confirms it basically,
Speaker 2: you know. So yeah, and that's why it's really important
Speaker 2: that you are seeing the right credential professional to diagnose you.
Speaker 2: And that's not just for allergies and anything in medicine,
Speaker 2: because we see this a lot that a lot of
Speaker 2: people are selling like allergy tests online and you know,
Speaker 2: they're they're doing all these things where you know there
Speaker 2: it's like direct to consumer marketing. But that's very dangerous
Speaker 2: because I've seen patients come in with all of these
Speaker 2: positive tests and they're not actually allergic to any of
Speaker 2: the things that they were told they were allergic to it,
Speaker 2: and they paid, like, you know, hundreds of dollars or
Speaker 2: even thousands of dollars for these work ups. So that's
Speaker 2: why it's really important you see someone who has been
Speaker 2: trained in that specialty and it's a validated test because
Speaker 2: there's a lot of allergy tests out there too that
Speaker 2: aren't evidence based or science based, and so you have
Speaker 2: to be very careful people being wrongly diagnosed of things,
Speaker 2: and then it can impact things because then it affects
Speaker 2: your nutrition, especially in the case of children, if they're
Speaker 2: being told they're allergic to things they're not being allergic to.
Speaker 2: That people are avoiding all of these things that they
Speaker 2: should be taking but aren't, you know. So it has
Speaker 2: long term implications as well to label someone with an
Speaker 2: allergy when they don't really have one, or any medical
Speaker 2: condition for that matter.
Speaker 1: Okay, now we're getting to the good part, because I
Speaker 1: feel like people are claiming allergy and I don't know
Speaker 1: if this black and white, like is there a spectrum,
Speaker 1: because I know that some people say I have sensitivities
Speaker 1: rather than an allergy, Right, what does that mean in practice,
Speaker 1: like how do those things manifest? And what should folks
Speaker 1: be looking out for in order to determine whether or
Speaker 1: not they have right food intolerance or a sensitivity or
Speaker 1: an allergy.
Speaker 2: Right, Right, that's an important question because often people interchange
Speaker 2: intolerance and sensitivity and allergy and they're not the same thing.
Speaker 2: So an allergy is when your immune system is involved, right,
Speaker 2: And that one is important to diagnose properly because that
Speaker 2: can be life threatening or you know, fatal. But in allergies,
Speaker 2: when your immune system is rejecting a food or hyper
Speaker 2: reactive to a food or something else whereas an intolerance,
Speaker 2: I like to cause more of like a side effect
Speaker 2: of the food, you know, so it's not necessarily dangerous.
Speaker 2: Sensitivity or intolerance isn't dangerous, but it might happen to
Speaker 2: a lot of people, but with varying degrees. So some
Speaker 2: people will come in and say, I think I'm allergic
Speaker 2: to gluten or wheat because it makes me bloated. Right,
Speaker 2: So I'm like, well, that's not really an allergy. What
Speaker 2: that is is it's a side effect of the food.
Speaker 2: So to some degree, gluten makes everybody a little bit blown, right,
Speaker 2: But some people feel it more so than other people.
Speaker 2: And that's not necessarily a life threatening allergy or something
Speaker 2: that will you know, kill you. You know, your immune system
Speaker 2: has had to have developed antibodies against this particular item,
Speaker 2: and it's a specific antibody called IgE, like elephant, and
Speaker 2: that that is what we measure basically, when we're doing
Speaker 2: allergy testing, we measure IgE antibodies either in your blood
Speaker 2: or through like the skin tests that many of you
Speaker 2: might be familiar with in the allergist office. And so
Speaker 2: it's very important to distinguish between like an allergy versus
Speaker 2: an intolerance and a sensitivity, because many people think they're
Speaker 2: the same, but they're not.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was such a great example that you used
Speaker 1: with gluten, because I feel like when we all became
Speaker 1: aware of gluten, then all of a sudden, you see
Speaker 1: all these things that are gluten free because people think
Speaker 1: it's like a dietary thing, and like, well, no, it's
Speaker 1: if you have a gluten allergy, then you would want
Speaker 1: something that's gluten free, right right. So I'm wondering if
Speaker 1: we're going to see the same effects that we saw
Speaker 1: with the peanut allergy and restricting peanuts with gluten because
Speaker 1: people are restricting gluten when they don't even have an
Speaker 1: allergy to gluten. They think that it's about health, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So you think, like the way
Speaker 1: we saw an uptick in kids having peanut allergies, that
Speaker 1: we could have an uptick in kids having gluten allergies exactly, Like,
Speaker 1: is that on the horizon? Is that possible?
Speaker 2: Well, it's possible, but it's less likely for a few reasons.
Speaker 2: Even though wheat is one of the top nine allergens,
Speaker 2: luckily it's not as allergenic as things like peanuts or
Speaker 2: nuts because interestingly, and that's like, foods that are higher
Speaker 2: in protein tend to cause more of like an immunogenic
Speaker 2: response or immunologic response. So since wheat or gluten isn't
Speaker 2: as high in protein as let's say, peanuts or tree
Speaker 2: nuts or some of the other high risk allergens. As
Speaker 2: an adult, if you stop eating gluten, you're pretty unlikely
Speaker 2: to develop a gluten allergy. But to your point, if
Speaker 2: you start doing that as a baby, then yes, that
Speaker 2: could increase your risk of a glute analogy because remember
Speaker 2: then that first four years of life, their immune systems
Speaker 2: are really rapidly developing, and we to gluten are one
Speaker 2: of the ones we encourage the early introduction of along
Speaker 2: with pnut and treat men and everything else, because it
Speaker 2: is one of the top nine allergies. So yes, for kids,
Speaker 2: restricting it can be a problem and then it can
Speaker 2: increase the risk of developing an allergy.
Speaker 1: You know. I want to talk about these tests in
Speaker 1: the tech that's associated with it. So t T is
Speaker 1: an engineer, so I feel like she understands how you
Speaker 1: create and build these tests. And my background is like
Speaker 1: selling electro biology, and so I'm like, yes, give younology,
Speaker 1: give it all to me, But what kind of tech
Speaker 1: is involved? How are these tests even designed?
Speaker 2: There's two types of allergy testing, either a blood test
Speaker 2: or a skin test for allergies, and they both measure
Speaker 2: the same thing. Again, they measure that IgE empty body
Speaker 2: against a specific allergen. So you can look for IgE
Speaker 2: to pollen, IG to gus mites, IG for peanuts, IG
Speaker 2: for milk, eggs, so for any food or environmental allergen
Speaker 2: or even medications too. And so these are the two
Speaker 2: tests that are validated, meaning that there's scientific evidence that
Speaker 2: tells us that these tests can be accurate. If the
Speaker 2: person has a story that fits with the allergy. You know,
Speaker 2: they're not accurate if someone has zero symptoms, you know,
Speaker 2: but we know these tests can accurately diagnose if you
Speaker 2: have like symptoms and a history that's concerning for it. Now,
Speaker 2: where we run into trouble is that there's a lot
Speaker 2: of unvalidated tests out there that are not scientifically based,
Speaker 2: and many of them measure a different type of antibody.
Speaker 2: There's another blood test that measures IgG antibody G like George,
Speaker 2: And that's why I keep repeating it because it's important
Speaker 2: to know the difference. So the IgG testing is supposed
Speaker 2: to be for intolerances, but the problem is it comes
Speaker 2: up positive on everybody you know. So if you tested
Speaker 2: my blot for the IgG's, all IgG tells you is
Speaker 2: that you've been exposed to something in the past. So
Speaker 2: it's very helpful for when you're trying to see if
Speaker 2: you have like immunity against like an infection. For example,
Speaker 2: we frequently will check IgG to see Okay, if you
Speaker 2: got a vaccine, do you have immunity and that there
Speaker 2: it's very helpful, or have you been exposed to some
Speaker 2: you know, bug in the past, But it's not helpful
Speaker 2: when you're looking for allergies because so many people have
Speaker 2: positive IgGs to everything, and it's just telling you exposure.
Speaker 2: It's not saying that your immune system likes something or
Speaker 2: doesn't like something, but the IgE like elephant, that really
Speaker 2: goes up if you are having an allergy. So that's
Speaker 2: why that testing is very helpful. And our skin testing
Speaker 2: measures the same thing because we scratch the surface of
Speaker 2: the skin with the different allergens and basically if you're allergic,
Speaker 2: you get like a hive or a mosquito bite looking
Speaker 2: thing over those specific allergens, and that's basically like stimulating
Speaker 2: the IgE and the allergy cells, the Langer hand cells
Speaker 2: in your skin, you know, to cause that reaction. So
Speaker 2: those tests are like validated and evidence based, but pretty
Speaker 2: much every other allergy test out there is not. There's
Speaker 2: one where I've heard of where you send in your
Speaker 2: hair sample and it's like it's always like a lot
Speaker 2: of crazy things I've heard, you know, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know, there's no scientific evidence behind those type of tests.
Speaker 1: So you said that there are two types of tests.
Speaker 1: What is on the horizon for allergy testing? Like, how
Speaker 1: do you see the field developing with the technology.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the interesting thing that allergies is that they're
Speaker 2: like immediate allergic reactions and delayed allergic reactions. And for
Speaker 2: the most part, we're very good at diagnosing immediate hyper
Speaker 2: sensitivity or immediate allergic reactions, but we don't have as
Speaker 2: good testing for delayed allergic reactions. So I think the
Speaker 2: future is probably there, you know, because there are certain
Speaker 2: types of allergies like exzema for example, more like a
Speaker 2: contact allergy or even poison ivy is a delayed hyper
Speaker 2: sensitivity reaction, and currently we do have one good test
Speaker 2: for that, something called patch testing, where we can test
Speaker 2: for ingredients different products that you use, and you go
Speaker 2: home with that test. Actually you keep it on your
Speaker 2: back for forty eight hours and come back because it
Speaker 2: is a delayed type of allergy. But there's so many
Speaker 2: other like delayed allergic reactions even to medications or foods
Speaker 2: or what have you, that we don't have good tests for.
Speaker 2: So I think that will be the future of allergy testing,
Speaker 2: and that will make it a lot easier to diagnose.
Speaker 1: And I think.
Speaker 2: Genetic testing will probably be used more too in allergy testing,
Speaker 2: and I think in everything in medicine, like as we
Speaker 2: understand more about how our genes play roles and things,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of biomarkers now that we're already
Speaker 2: using in the treatment of asthma. So now before it
Speaker 2: used to be thought that asthma was like a one
Speaker 2: size fits all category, but now we realize that even
Speaker 2: in allergic asthma, that there are subtypes, and we're able
Speaker 2: to now better treat our asthmatications because now there's a
Speaker 2: lot of medications that target those subtypes. So now we
Speaker 2: can even check certain things in the blood and choose
Speaker 2: appropriate medications too for patients. I think there's a lot
Speaker 2: that's coming down the pipelines, you know, and there's a
Speaker 2: lot in treatment too. So now we're starting to have
Speaker 2: medications that lessen the severity of food allergy, which we
Speaker 2: didn't have ten years ago. So it's very exciting that
Speaker 2: we might have a world where we're not only decreasing
Speaker 2: food allergy, but even making it more safe for those
Speaker 2: who have it and lessening the severity of their allergies.
Speaker 1: You know, it really parked up my ears about what
Speaker 1: you just said. It was the genetic component of it.
Speaker 1: So I'm not just trying to become a whole geneticis okay, girl,
Speaker 1: you know me? And so are there any genetic ties
Speaker 1: with allergies, Like if your mom is allergic to something,
Speaker 1: are you more likely to have that same allergy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there are genetic ties. The problem is it's
Speaker 2: not completely clear yet. I think research will make it
Speaker 2: more clear. So we're not quite there yet, but hopefully
Speaker 2: in the next like thirty years or fifty years. But
Speaker 2: what we do know now is that just having one
Speaker 2: parent with any type of allergy increases the child's chance
Speaker 2: by up to fifty percent five zero. So definitely there
Speaker 2: is a parental factor, but there's also a very large
Speaker 2: environmental factor because we're seeing a lot of nuancet food allergies,
Speaker 2: for example, in children who's neither a parent had a
Speaker 2: food allergy, you know. And I think it's a combination
Speaker 2: of things too. It's not all genetics, but there is
Speaker 2: a strong environmental component to it, because allergies are one
Speaker 2: of the few or the only medical condition I can
Speaker 2: really think of right now off the time I head
Speaker 2: where it's as much as external problem as it is
Speaker 2: an internal problem, you know, So the way you know,
Speaker 2: it's not like diabetes or something where you can take
Speaker 2: a medicine to control it like this, and for people
Speaker 2: who are allergic, literally their environment can trigger them at
Speaker 2: any time, you know. So it's a very different type
Speaker 2: of medical issue in which you not only have to
Speaker 2: control it internally, but also externally too.
Speaker 1: So when we are moving through this world and we
Speaker 1: are using social media, and there's a lot on social
Speaker 1: media that just is not correct, well, can you talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about some of the misconceptions and the
Speaker 1: false information that you see out there in regards to allergies,
Speaker 1: immunology and how we can safeguard ourselves from falling for
Speaker 1: some of these, I guess tricks to get our money.
Speaker 2: Right, right, Yeah, So there's so much misinformation out there.
Speaker 2: I don't know where to start, but I'll try my best.
Speaker 2: I would be wary if you're getting information from anybody
Speaker 2: online who's trying to sell anything, because I've noticed that
Speaker 2: that when there's a monetary component to it, that often
Speaker 2: those are the people that I've noticed to be kind
Speaker 2: of perpetuating false information or false treatments or false testing.
Speaker 2: And then I'm sure that they would argue. But yeah,
Speaker 2: but every you know, doctor also gets paid. But it's
Speaker 2: it's very different because this is something that you know,
Speaker 2: physicians have been trained for where it's very a very
Speaker 2: regulated profession, right, so we can't just go around saying
Speaker 2: whatever we want to other and you know, whetherwas we
Speaker 2: lose our license, you know, we can even get criminal
Speaker 2: penalties for that. And always look for credentials online because
Speaker 2: I've noticed that a lot of people who are perpetuating information,
Speaker 2: they'll call themselves doctor, but then if you dig deeper,
Speaker 2: there's actually no like doctorate there, or or it's a
Speaker 2: doctorate that's not in medical sciences, you know. So of course,
Speaker 2: like I respect all doctorates, but I and be able
Speaker 2: to you know, I'm a doctor, but I know nothing
Speaker 2: about engineering, right like you can't you can't call me
Speaker 2: a doctorate an engineer. I can't call myself that, right.
Speaker 2: So I've noticed that there's a lot of like misrepresentation online.
Speaker 2: But some of the myths that I hear a lot
Speaker 2: are about immune boosting because I'm immunologists, so there's no
Speaker 2: there's no quick, easy fix for immune boosting. So I've
Speaker 2: seen everything sold from you know, shakes to tablets to powders,
Speaker 2: so none of those things can boost your immune system. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: the only thing that can give you a healthy immune
Speaker 2: system is like very boring and it takes a lot
Speaker 2: of time. But you know, eating well, sleeping well, exercising,
Speaker 2: you know, cup being yourself active at a healthy weight,
Speaker 2: all of the things that like seem like common sense
Speaker 2: but that you know a lot of people don't want
Speaker 2: to do. Those are things that will actually preserve your
Speaker 2: immune system. And ironically, the one thing that can booster
Speaker 2: your immune system very fast, it has become controversial, I'm
Speaker 2: not sure why. And that's vaccine. So that means the
Speaker 2: vaccine is the only way you can boos your immune
Speaker 2: system in two weeks or less. There's anyone tells you
Speaker 2: there's any other way. They're lying to you. The rest
Speaker 2: of the ways the Bouchier immune system comes through, you know,
Speaker 2: just consistency in your life. So sleeping, you know, seven
Speaker 2: to eight hours a night, drinking those you know, ten
Speaker 2: to twelve glasses of water, whatever the recommended limit is,
Speaker 2: Eating healthy, you know, avoiding those junk and processed foods
Speaker 2: and alcohol, all those things we already know are bad
Speaker 2: for us. You know, maintaining a healthy way all of
Speaker 2: that does help your immune system, but obviously it doesn't
Speaker 2: happen overnight. But it's interesting because the one thing that
Speaker 2: is proven to boocher immune system, now everybody's against it
Speaker 2: and it makes no sense. And that's just another example
Speaker 2: of misinformation. And then kind of in the allergy world,
Speaker 2: there's so many myths. I think people think still that
Speaker 2: allergies don't exist, you know, and I think people think
Speaker 2: food allergies are not real, which is really dangerous. There's
Speaker 2: actually been like bullying and deaths where like, you know,
Speaker 2: kids have been like forced to eat something they're allergic
Speaker 2: to and then you know, gotten very sick or died.
Speaker 2: And I think dispelling those myths is really important. There's
Speaker 2: actually a Super Bowl ad where they actually made light
Speaker 2: of someone having a peanut allergy. Yeah, it was an
Speaker 2: Uber Eats ad with all these celebrities in it, and
Speaker 2: actually everyone of us in the allergy community got really upset,
Speaker 2: and when we started speaking out about it in the media,
Speaker 2: social media, and they pulled that part of the ad out,
Speaker 2: you know, which is good because but no one would
Speaker 2: make that joke about heart disease or diabetes, but they
Speaker 2: make that joke about allergies all the time, which are
Speaker 2: just as deadly, you know. So that's a big myth
Speaker 2: that I really would love to dispel, you know, because
Speaker 2: it can actually hurt somebody if you don't take it seriously.
Speaker 2: And then the same thing, I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people think that even seasonal allergies aren't a big deal,
Speaker 2: and for a lot of people they aren't. But then,
Speaker 2: like I said, there are those people where it triggers asthma,
Speaker 2: and for some people it can be very severe and debilitating.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad these kinds conversations are happening and people
Speaker 2: are talking about allergies, because even as as soon as
Speaker 2: five or ten years ago, you know, it was not
Speaker 2: really talked about and people didn't take it seriously. So
Speaker 2: those are probably the most common mix I see.
Speaker 1: I blame the media, you know, and it sounds wild,
Speaker 1: but I feel like back in the nineties when I
Speaker 1: was growing up, every single sitcom cartoon it was always
Speaker 1: a really nerdy kid that had asthma or had allergies,
Speaker 1: and it was like, oh my gosh, because you know,
Speaker 1: they had the glasses and they always had clean eggs,
Speaker 1: and they had their asthma inhaler, and so it made
Speaker 1: having allergies like a not cool thing and stuff for
Speaker 1: like nerdy outcasts, and I'm just like, I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm a nerdy outcast. Do you think that makes me
Speaker 1: strange because I wanted both the inhaler and glasses. Yes,
Speaker 1: you are strange, but I do feel like food allergies
Speaker 1: seemed like this weird thing to me, And I didn't
Speaker 1: know anybody with food allergies, Like you weren't really like
Speaker 1: you weren't really allowed to have food allergies, like it
Speaker 1: wasn't a thing. But also I knew somebody at my
Speaker 1: after school program that had a latex allergy, and I
Speaker 1: was like, we don't want to kill her, Like I
Speaker 1: didn't know what would happened, but I was like, we
Speaker 1: don't want to kill her. We have to use these
Speaker 1: they use these different gloves to serve the food and stuff.
Speaker 1: And I took that really serious. But why didn't we
Speaker 1: take like pena allergies a SI Exactly. It's like there's
Speaker 1: this hierarchy, there's a respectability politics with allergies, like allergy types. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're seeing the same thing when people talk about gluten
Speaker 1: allergies now, like they're making it like, oh, you're just
Speaker 1: being difficult or particular, and it's like No, this could
Speaker 1: really be messing somebody up.
Speaker 2: You're completely right. It has a stigma to it and
Speaker 2: that's unfortunate. And you're right, it's propagated even by like
Speaker 2: the movie industry, because I've seen it in movies even recently,
Speaker 2: way after the nineties, Like I know, there was like
Speaker 2: a Peter Rabbit movie where they were making fun of
Speaker 2: food allergies and things. So that's the problem because people
Speaker 2: kids see that and adult that and they think that's
Speaker 2: they normalize that. So I completely agree with you, and yeah,
Speaker 2: it's definitely a problem.
Speaker 1: I think this episode is so so important because the
Speaker 1: science communication that you're doing in order to shift perspectives
Speaker 1: on allergies is really crucial because people are dying and
Speaker 1: we have to take it more seriously. It should not
Speaker 1: be the butt of a joke in right, in any
Speaker 1: ad or in any movie. We should really be taking
Speaker 1: it as serious as it's supposed to be.
Speaker 2: Right. No, absolutely, And I want to thank you also
Speaker 2: for doing a whole podcast episode on this because these conversations,
Speaker 2: I think are how we will help kind of change
Speaker 2: that narrative. So thank you, you know, for bringing attention
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. That was so informative to T
Speaker 1: because I understand the immune system, but I don't think
Speaker 1: I was really appreciating the allergies the way I should. Honestly, Yes,
Speaker 1: And I think that that seems to be a common
Speaker 1: theme with a lot of our labs this semester. It's
Speaker 1: about reframing how we look at people, how we look
Speaker 1: at pain, how we look at fear, how we look
Speaker 1: at allergies, and really putting some respect on everybody's name,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Where it's just like our
Speaker 1: lives are so complex. Everybody's got a lot of things
Speaker 1: going on, and we just have to have like a
Speaker 1: level of respect for folks and whatever they bring to
Speaker 1: the table. You know that's right. If you see me
Speaker 1: out here sneezing, just know that three hundred million years ago,
Speaker 1: I would have survived a parasitic a tech because I
Speaker 1: have a very active immune system. You damn right. You
Speaker 1: can find us on X and Instagram at Dope Labs
Speaker 1: podcast ct is on X and Instagram at dr Underscore
Speaker 1: t SHL and you can find I'm zakiya at Ze
Speaker 1: said so. Dope Labs is a production of Lemonada Media.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Keegan Zimma and our producer is
Speaker 1: Issara Acevez. Dope Labs is sound designed, edited and mixed
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Speaker 1: composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura,
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Speaker 1: produced by us T T Show Dia and Zakiah WATTLEI