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Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome to I've never said this before with

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Speaker 1: me Tommy di Dario. Today's guest is Academy Award nominee

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Speaker 1: and my friend, the one and only Coleman Domingo. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is a special edition episode of my podcast because

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Speaker 1: the conversation you are about to hear it's from an

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Speaker 1: event that I'm moderated, presented by the prestigious ninety second

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Speaker 1: Street wy New York. You of course know Coleman from

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Speaker 1: his powerful and memorable roles in Rust, in The Color Purple,

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Speaker 1: the Butler Selma, the fan favorite series Euphoria, and while

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Speaker 1: I could be here for hours talking about all of

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Speaker 1: his amazing credits, but today the conversation is all about

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Speaker 1: his film Sing Sing, which is out right now. In

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Speaker 1: Sing Sing, Coleman plays Divine g who is in prison

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Speaker 1: for a crime he didn't commit. He finds his purpose

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Speaker 1: by acting in a theater group alongside other incarcerated men

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Speaker 1: and men. This movie is so beautifully moving. So the

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Speaker 1: ninety second Street Wide, New York is a world class

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Speaker 1: center for arts and innovation. They offer extensive classes and

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Speaker 1: events in person but also online, making it accessible to everybody,

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Speaker 1: including live talks, concerts, and dance performances, and get this,

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Speaker 1: they even just celebrated their one hundred and fiftieth anniversary.

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Speaker 1: So you can check them out at ninety second New

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Speaker 1: York dot org and look for their own podcast, ninety

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Speaker 1: two and y Talks, featuring the best of their on

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Speaker 1: stage conversations. So let's see if today we can get

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Speaker 1: Coleman to say something that he has never said before. Hello, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the fun Q and A portion of the evening.

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Speaker 1: Did you all enjoy the film you just watched? I

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Speaker 1: know it was amazing. I am Tommy Didario. I work

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Speaker 1: on a show called Extra, and I get to interview

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Speaker 1: so many amazing artists throughout my career. But it's people

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Speaker 1: like this gentleman, Coleman Domingo, who I up when I

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Speaker 1: get to talk to because not only is he a

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Speaker 1: brilliant artist, but such a good human being. So I

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Speaker 1: don't need to introduce him any further. Let's bring him out.

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Speaker 1: Coleman Tomingo, get down here, Come on, and just so

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Speaker 1: you guys know, we're gonna have about a half hour

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Speaker 1: conversation no Q and A today, but I've got to

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Speaker 1: cover We're gonna get into a lot of good stuff.

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Speaker 1: So are you ready, my man?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? First of all, thank you so much for joining

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Speaker 2: us today. I feel your energy.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Coleman. I was blown away watching this film,

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Speaker 1: as I'm sure so many people here today were too.

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Speaker 1: And I guess to begin, you did this movie when

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Speaker 1: you had about an eighteen day break from what I

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Speaker 1: understand between the color purple and rustin. So instead of

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Speaker 1: being like, I'm gonna go to the beach, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go out for brunch, I'm gonna just relax for eighteen days,

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Speaker 1: you jumped into a very powerful movie. What made you

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Speaker 1: say I need to be a part of this film?

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Speaker 2: You know, I started to I was invited by my director,

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Speaker 2: Greg Quidar and Clymt Bentley. They have been racking themselves

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Speaker 2: with this idea for like a good six or seven years,

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Speaker 2: and because they were working as teaching artists in the

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Speaker 2: ARTA program at Sing Sing and they thought they really

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Speaker 2: wanted to tell these stories and they felt like that

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Speaker 2: they mattered, and they really wanted to get it out

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Speaker 2: there in some way be authentic, and they kept hitting

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Speaker 2: roadblocks with it just in terms of like how to

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Speaker 2: actually do it. So they finally picked up the idea again,

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Speaker 2: and Greg said he wrote a treatment in about an hour,

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Speaker 2: and at the end of it he wrote my name.

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Speaker 2: And now, by circumstance, it was like, you know, a

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Speaker 2: couple of my reps. They were saying, you got to

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Speaker 2: meet these guys. I think that you were really like them,

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Speaker 2: you were like their art. I watched the movie Jockey.

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Speaker 2: I thought they did a beautiful film, and I said,

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Speaker 2: I love to meet them someday, you know, just generally

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Speaker 2: meet them. And then so we got on a zoom

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Speaker 2: and they were telling me about this program and how

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Speaker 2: it works, you know, rehabilitation through the arts that sing sing,

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Speaker 2: and I thought, oh, what is that. You know, they

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Speaker 2: do plays and it's been really helping these inmates get

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Speaker 2: in touch with their feelings and really do some true

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Speaker 2: healing on the inside. And I thought, I was fascinated

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Speaker 2: by that. I'm really I said, could you send me

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Speaker 2: a script? They said, oh, no, we don't have a script,

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Speaker 2: but they said, but we continue the Esquire magazine article

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Speaker 2: that they did on it years ago. So I read

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Speaker 2: that and I was so taken with it. And then

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Speaker 2: I got more information, like the fact that there was

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Speaker 2: a three percent recidivism rate amongst the men who went

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Speaker 2: to the program compared to sixty percent nationwide. I thought, well,

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Speaker 2: this is really impactful and credible, and anyone knows me,

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Speaker 2: I'll do my damnedest to tell complex stories about African

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Speaker 2: American men, black and brown men, and because I feel like,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's what I've been put on this earth

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Speaker 2: to do. So I just thought there was a fantastic idea.

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Speaker 2: And so we started to create this, create the screenplay together.

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Speaker 2: We were just you know, we would talk about things, me,

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Speaker 2: the two guys, and also Clarence Macklin, you know, mister divine.

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Speaker 2: I We would get on zooms and talk about what

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Speaker 2: was important to us, talk about story, and so we eventually,

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Speaker 2: you know, got to a draft and then they said, well,

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Speaker 2: when can we do it? I said, oh, we can.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm I'm busy for the next year.

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Speaker 2: And but and I just to look on Greg's eyes

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Speaker 2: and Clarence's enthusiasms, said, oh, man, we really feel like

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Speaker 2: we should make this this year. We got to get

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Speaker 2: this done. And I'm a very I'm a very patient person,

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Speaker 2: but this seemed very pressing, like we needed it right now.

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Speaker 2: And they and the beautiful things they said they needed me.

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Speaker 2: When somebody tells you I need I need your help

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Speaker 2: to do this and to do this work and to

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Speaker 2: be in service to these and care for these men's stories,

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Speaker 2: I feel like I had to make time. And so

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Speaker 2: I told them. I said, well, my gosh, man, I

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Speaker 2: got it back for pickup shots for rust and I'm

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Speaker 2: just starting the color purple. And you know, I like

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Speaker 2: to prep a lot, too, So I really liked to

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Speaker 2: have a couple of months, maybe even four, to get

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Speaker 2: myself together. And I wouldn't have any of that. But

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Speaker 2: I thought, this is it's time to do something differently

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Speaker 2: and do it and distrust the process. And I said, well,

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Speaker 2: I have eighteen days in between two things. I said, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: we'll take them. I said, what are you talking. No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: I didn't mean you can take all my days. But

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Speaker 2: they did, and we leaned into it, and we went

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Speaker 2: to upstate New York and shot and too decommissioned prisons

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Speaker 2: and a junior high school and a sports complex.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're bringing a real community's stories to life. Right.

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Speaker 1: So with that, and with so little time to prepare,

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Speaker 1: if not any time to prepare, did you have any

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Speaker 1: trepidations stepping into this massive role. Did you feel like

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Speaker 1: I need to get this story right.

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Speaker 2: The thing that I felt trepidacious about, and which was

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Speaker 2: I think the thing that was guiding me was I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to stand out in a way. I wanted

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Speaker 2: to be folded into the ensemble with these men who

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Speaker 2: had the lived experience. And yet they've they've received their training.

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Speaker 2: I believe, you know, I've always believed you can get

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Speaker 2: your training from Yale Juilliard. You can get it by

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Speaker 2: being a working artist, or you can get it in

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Speaker 2: an institution like the industrial prison complex, if something like

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Speaker 2: RTA training is training. So I knew that they were

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Speaker 2: coming with their skills, and I thought, okay, I just

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Speaker 2: want to I just want to be folded in. I

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Speaker 2: don't want the idea. I don't want to be over.

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Speaker 2: If anyone knows my work, if you know, between zola

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Speaker 2: and color, purple and rust, and I can play things

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Speaker 2: with size, you know, just a little bit just slight,

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Speaker 2: I mean missing a tooth and a wig, you know,

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Speaker 2: an accent. But this required me to be a bit

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Speaker 2: more stripped and a bit more raw, and I think

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Speaker 2: that that was also part of the process that I

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Speaker 2: needed to not be overrehearsed to know everything. I felt

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Speaker 2: like I needed to actually just strip away and be

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Speaker 2: a bit more vulnerable and be even closer to myself

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Speaker 2: and to find all the similarities in John, Divine g

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Speaker 2: and me. So I feel like that was new for me.

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Speaker 1: How much time did you have with him before you

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Speaker 1: film this movie? Did you get a lot of time

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Speaker 1: to talk to him and pick his brain or you

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Speaker 1: dove in?

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Speaker 2: Not a lot? But also I didn't want a lot,

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Speaker 2: which is which may sound strange because I think, I

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Speaker 2: think in order to create a character that has to

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Speaker 2: live in a one hundred minute film, I have to

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Speaker 2: divorce myself from feeling like I was going to try

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Speaker 2: to mock or imitate, or I don't want to treat

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Speaker 2: the subject like an anthropological study and ask them every question.

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Speaker 2: I want to sort of just sit and listen. So

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Speaker 2: I only had I had I feel like a couple

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Speaker 2: zooms with him just getting to know each other. I

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Speaker 2: didn't pry or anything. I just wanted to get to

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Speaker 2: know his spirit and what he was interested in and

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Speaker 2: download information. And then we had a dinner where I

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Speaker 2: downloaded more information, whether he knew it or not whether

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Speaker 2: we both knew it or not. I had so much

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Speaker 2: more information I can take in the room with me

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Speaker 2: when he would just tell me things like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I went to Yeah, I went where'd go high school?

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Speaker 2: I went to high school here? I went to Overbrook

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Speaker 2: High School? You mean Will Smith? Oh yeah you did?

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Speaker 2: Where'd you go high school? I went to high school,

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Speaker 2: you know, high school performing arts? And man, I want

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Speaker 2: to be a dancer. I was a dj. I want

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Speaker 2: to dance, you know, I wanted. He wanted to be

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Speaker 2: a ballet dancer and jazz, he said, but then I

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Speaker 2: would have to fight when I went home, and so

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Speaker 2: then I stopped dancing. And then he was like, man,

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Speaker 2: I also wanted to go into the police force. But

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Speaker 2: and then he sat there with his with a thought,

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Speaker 2: and he said, man, you think about the life choices

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Speaker 2: you make, and what if I did that? And so

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Speaker 2: I just took that in and so I know that

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Speaker 2: when I was on set, I was able to I

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Speaker 2: would talk to my director and I would say, I

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Speaker 2: think that I want to try to incorporate a moment

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Speaker 2: of dance in here. This just because the person that

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Speaker 2: I knew when he he'd lit up when he talked

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Speaker 2: about dancing, so I said, oh, if I'm at some point,

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Speaker 2: it'll be in there. So I just downloaded. I didn't

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Speaker 2: think when I was going to do it. But that's

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Speaker 2: when that pairrowet comes in when I'm waiting outside of

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Speaker 2: the audition, because I've downloaded information that I can play

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Speaker 2: off of, you know, of knowing this person's soul and

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Speaker 2: what he was interested in, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: So I feel like instead of saying being so decent,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do this thing and like you leave room,

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Speaker 2: like like John Patrick Shanley would say, you leave room

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Speaker 2: for the divine to reside, you know, so you download information.

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Speaker 2: That's what I felt like I was more conscious of

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Speaker 2: with this, so I can give more of his essence

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Speaker 2: and spirit but not be too studied in performance. Does

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Speaker 2: it make any sense? Yeah, the actors out there, does

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Speaker 2: it make any sense? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Cool? Yeah, giving us an acting masterclass up in here. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I see you, cole Man, I see you. And I

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Speaker 1: love that he had a little cameo in the movie too.

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Speaker 1: He was special.

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Speaker 2: He was so nervous to do that. He was so nervous,

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Speaker 2: you know, you know, he never thought somebody Paul and

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Speaker 2: Gorgeous would be playing him, but you know, totally kidding.

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Speaker 1: And we're pivoting, No, just kidding, Clemn. I wrote a

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Speaker 1: quote down and this quote. It struck me because I think,

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Speaker 1: no matter what so many people are going through in

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Speaker 1: their lives, no matter where they come from, no matter

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Speaker 1: what walk of life they are, you can relate to

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Speaker 1: this quote. And that quote is we are here to

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Speaker 1: become human again. And that's about the RTA program. Of course.

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Speaker 1: So when you hear that and when you're living that

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Speaker 1: in the movie, like, what do you feel? What does

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Speaker 1: that mean to you?

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Speaker 2: It's funny because I think it didn't affect me until

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Speaker 2: I saw a cut of the film because even being

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Speaker 2: in the scene, I was playing a different action, you know,

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Speaker 2: so I wasn't aware of it in the moment. I

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Speaker 2: was just watching him. It was just such a a

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Speaker 2: cacophony of moments and many moments of like sort of

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Speaker 2: helping Divine Eye sort of like leave some traumatic behavior

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Speaker 2: that doesn't fuel him anymore. And he didn't even know it.

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Speaker 2: But then when Dino delivered that line, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's so impactful. I think I could put a circle

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Speaker 2: around it and say that's what the whole movie is

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Speaker 2: about It's about our humanity and about everyone getting back

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Speaker 2: in touch with the essence of why they were brought

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Speaker 2: here on this planet in some way, you know, getting

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Speaker 2: back to the heart and getting back to joy, back

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Speaker 2: to tenderness, back to all these things that maybe the

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Speaker 2: world has sort of done a number on you in

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Speaker 2: some way, whether you know, when you talk to people

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Speaker 2: and you're like, you know, you look at people's paths

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Speaker 2: and you just have a simple conversation with how you know.

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Speaker 2: I know, I was raised, I was loved, I was adored.

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Speaker 2: I was set up to believe that the world was

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Speaker 2: meant to do me more good than harm, and some

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Speaker 2: people weren't that way. So whatever, all these things that

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Speaker 2: helped create a person and create these small moments that

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Speaker 2: lead to another moment that changes your whole trajectory and

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Speaker 2: you have to strip all that stuff away when you

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Speaker 2: have a gift like an RTA program. You know, I

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Speaker 2: know that art saves and changes lives. It's not just

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Speaker 2: something I'm saying, it actually does, you know. And I

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Speaker 2: think the idea of watching black and brown men play

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Speaker 2: and be tender with one another when the world is not,

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Speaker 2: it says that you can't. It's not a construct for you,

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Speaker 2: you know. I think we're told that, you know, I like, oh,

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Speaker 2: what is to be masculine? Ough to be a man?

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Speaker 2: And now it's they're actually And so the idea of

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Speaker 2: these grown ass men standing in a space saying we're

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Speaker 2: going to reject that, because that's not health before us.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't help our families, it doesn't help our communities,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't help our longevity. If anything at Railroad is

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Speaker 2: right back into these institutions, you know. So it's about

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Speaker 2: doing this active work to say. And I feel like

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Speaker 2: that's what this film is for me as well, because

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Speaker 2: I know that when we were building this film, the

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Speaker 2: thing I know I just kept talking about, probably ad nauseam,

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Speaker 2: was tenderness. And I want to see more images of tenderness.

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Speaker 2: So that's why every handshake, every hug, every every delicate

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Speaker 2: moment of leaning up against a room pouring your most

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Speaker 2: innermost thoughts out to someone at night is important because

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Speaker 2: it's for it's for us to live and exist wholly

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Speaker 2: and fully.

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Speaker 1: Coleman, it feels like this movie was very much a

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Speaker 1: cathartic and even healing experience for you. Is that correct? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Tell me more about that.

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Speaker 2: I think it is because I think it just it's really,

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Speaker 2: which is why I made time for it when I did.

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Speaker 2: It makes sense to me now outside of all this,

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Speaker 2: as I was sort of deconstructing this broken human who

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Speaker 2: was abusing someone in the color purple or playing, you know,

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Speaker 2: someone who was completely undaunted in the world while trying

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Speaker 2: to change the world with rustin, this feel like it's

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Speaker 2: in line with all of it. This feels like it's

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Speaker 2: it's a it's a it's a it feels like an

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Speaker 2: even deeper dive into I guess, into our humanity really

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Speaker 2: and just I think I think it's very purposeful for me.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I know for sure, if I don't

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Speaker 2: know anything else, I know why I make art and

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Speaker 2: why I continue to make art and why I do

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Speaker 2: it on every platform because I can start see the

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Speaker 2: line of it now as I've been doing this work

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Speaker 2: for thirty three years, I'm like, oh, I really care

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Speaker 2: about who are we and who are we going to become?

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Speaker 2: And and I'm not someone I don't think. I'm not

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Speaker 2: wildly political. I'm not out there, you know, burning down

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Speaker 2: the streets. I burn it down with my art and

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Speaker 2: with a pen and I know that that's what It's

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Speaker 2: even more potent right now. I mean, I know for

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Speaker 2: sure that this film needed. We need this film right

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Speaker 2: now so we can have conversations about this about people

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Speaker 2: you thought you had nothing in common with. You realize

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Speaker 2: it's just human. These are human beings. You can have

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Speaker 2: deeper conversations and deeper interrogations and and I don't think

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Speaker 2: differently about how we do this and who people are,

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Speaker 2: So I know that's important to me. So I think

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Speaker 2: it's it's in alignment with all the things I really

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Speaker 2: care about. And you know, when I was a young actor,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do dumb shit like anybody else and

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Speaker 2: just say, oh can I get a job on the

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Speaker 2: WB and make a lot of money and be named

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Speaker 2: Pooky or something? But that never came my way. It

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Speaker 2: was always, you know, it was always very meaningful things.

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Speaker 2: And I think of myself as a pretty lighthearted person.

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Speaker 2: But I think at the core, in my private spaces,

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Speaker 2: I'm at home reading Baldwin and Ellison and and really

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Speaker 2: caring about how are we going to do this? How

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Speaker 2: are we going to live every day? You know I

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Speaker 2: care deeply.

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Speaker 1: Well, it shows in your work, and I mean, as

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Speaker 1: a friend and as a fan of yours, I'm so

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Speaker 1: proud of what you put out into the worlds. And

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Speaker 1: you continue to raise the bar and put out messages

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Speaker 1: that mean so much to so many people. And you know,

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Speaker 1: your performances, we feel them, we feel a man. And

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Speaker 1: there was a moment in this movie when you received

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Speaker 1: the really big, thick Manila envelope. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: about you guys, but my heart broke because you know

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Speaker 1: that you wanted to get that thin one. So what

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Speaker 1: was it like processing that moment in that scene for you,

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Speaker 1: because watching it was like soul crushing.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's the secret. That was the very first shot

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I was, of course, wow.

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Speaker 2: That was my first shot of the film, and so

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to take in you know, I think

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Speaker 2: at our best as artists, I think we're teachers, yes,

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Speaker 2: but also to think the impaths, you know, when we

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Speaker 2: were very open to someone who's experience in listening and

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Speaker 2: just imagining, like you know, that's the thing when people

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Speaker 2: are like, well did you research that? What did you say?

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Speaker 2: You know, I can pretty much imagine what would happen

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Speaker 2: if I was actually, you know, wrongly accused of a

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Speaker 2: crime and imprisoned and trying to find ways to have light,

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Speaker 2: hope and humanity. Like like the real guy that I play.

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Speaker 2: He you know, he would was always in the law

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Speaker 2: library and advocating for his fellow inmates, you know, when

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Speaker 2: they had their parole board hearings, et cetera. And he

352
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Speaker 2: would They would want to pay him something, and he said, no,

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Speaker 2: you just pay it forward. You do something for somebody else.

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Speaker 2: This is the light. It's been a day, y'all. We

355
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Speaker 2: know it's been a day, right, you know, we're all

356
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Speaker 2: experiencing this day, and we talk about hope, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I know it's on everyone's mind. But and I

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Speaker 2: think maybe that's why I literally was laying in bed

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Speaker 2: before I got here, because I was like, what we're

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Speaker 2: gonna do? Y'all were going, we're gonna do this good.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm playing in bed. I'm like, we're going

362
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Speaker 2: to do We're gonna do it, right, Okay, So so

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling very emotional.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, but I'm just saying that.

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Speaker 2: What was I talking about?

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Speaker 1: The envelope scene?

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Speaker 2: So get this. So the idea of like processing that

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Speaker 2: and you know, this guy who lives with so much

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Speaker 2: hope and pouring so much love into others, and then

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Speaker 2: he gets that brick, knowing that he's going to have

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Speaker 2: seven more years at least. Your your heart just drops

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Speaker 2: for me. I wanted to play for me. I thought

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Speaker 2: this person just must their emotions must stop in that moment.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was just the thing. I thought like, well,

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Speaker 2: how's he gonna react to this? You can play the

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Speaker 2: scene many different ways, and I thought, I think he

377
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Speaker 2: just stops. I think he just locks it all down

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Speaker 2: because I think that if he went there, he would

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Speaker 2: lose his whole fucking mind or he wouldn't know how

380
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Speaker 2: to get back up because he he he was He's

381
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Speaker 2: a person who plays on strengths and always feeling like

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Speaker 2: I'm good there, I'm good for everybody, I'm good. And

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Speaker 2: then he's not. And then the next scene he goes

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Speaker 2: in and brother man is getting out. It's like one

385
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Speaker 2: more thing, Okay, so I'm not I'm truly innocent, and okay,

386
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Speaker 2: one knock, next knock, Mike, Mike's dead. It's just like

387
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Speaker 2: it's like how much can you pile onto a person?

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Speaker 2: And I thought, well, I think that this guy, I'm

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Speaker 2: the very emotional person as you can tell I thought

390
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Speaker 2: it would be interesting if this person just just did this,

391
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Speaker 2: and then it comes out in the most raw way.

392
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Speaker 2: And and in that in that one scene when they're

393
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Speaker 2: rehearsing the play, and then what I what I loved

394
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Speaker 2: because we didn't talk about this. I was gonna come

395
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Speaker 2: out and play, to play it the way I thought.

396
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Speaker 2: He's triggered, and he plays it. And the beautiful thing

397
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 2: that Clarence Macklin did is how he received that. You

398
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 2: saw that the program was working on him because he

399
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 2: pretty much could knock me out right, but he made

400
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Speaker 2: a choice to have grace for me and understand and

401
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Speaker 2: put his put himself in my shoes and say, bro,

402
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Speaker 2: you don't really want to do that, It's all right.

403
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Speaker 2: And so for me, I loved that moment in the

404
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 2: film because we were and we were shooting that stuff

405
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 2: out of order, but like the agreement that we made

406
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 2: in that moment is really the agreement that these men

407
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 2: in the bond, that these men were making to each

408
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Speaker 2: other for real, for real, and.

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Speaker 1: It made that scene so much more powerful. I thought

410
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Speaker 1: when you did kind of have a little bit of

411
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Speaker 1: the breakdown in the dress rehearsal right, because it just

412
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Speaker 1: you couldn't take it anymore, and it came out, and

413
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Speaker 1: I think the choices you made are so brilliantly you

414
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Speaker 1: and the subtlety in that moment really with the envelope

415
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Speaker 1: got me. I mean, as so many moments did The

416
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: location too for me. I mean, the location is a

417
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Speaker 1: big character, and you filmed on location, of course, and

418
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Speaker 1: you know you see the train going by multiple times

419
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Speaker 1: a day, and even when you don't see it, you

420
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: hear it throughout the film. And to me, that was

421
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: such a powerful message of this idea of escapism and

422
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 1: people living their lives while prisoners were watching right and dreaming.

423
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Speaker 1: So how was it filming there? I mean, did that

424
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Speaker 1: just bring it all to life in a bigger way?

425
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Speaker 2: It did because it's shooting on location and decommissioned prisons,

426
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Speaker 2: and we shot in one of them was Downstate Prison,

427
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 2: which was decommissioned like weeks before we got there, so

428
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Speaker 2: you felt the energy there in every single way. So

429
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Speaker 2: it it the thing that I know for sure, and

430
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Speaker 2: I didn't go do a deep dive in it. I

431
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 2: just took it in, feeling my way through. It's designed

432
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: so you can't find your way out. I was constantly lost.

433
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 2: Was I always had to have a pa come and

434
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 2: take me from my holding cell. I literally I had

435
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 2: a holding cell that was my holding and Mike. Mike

436
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 2: was in there with me. We sort of we did

437
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 2: this wild thing where I had to move into where

438
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 2: I was staying as well, so we were roommates on

439
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 2: set back, you know, offset offscreen and then on set.

440
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 2: But the air feels different. He feels like there's no

441
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 2: flow of air. There's something psychological working on you in

442
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: every single way where you felt like it's a system

443
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: like you just I don't know. I felt like I

444
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 2: always needed to get out when we had a break,

445
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 2: I need to get outside and get some air because

446
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 2: the air wasn't moving at all, and it's really hot,

447
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 2: and it's it's it's the thing that I know for sure.

448
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: It's not set up for human beings. It's not set

449
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 2: up for rehabilitation. Doesn't feel like it. You're like, you know,

450
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 2: there's nothing in it that says, oh, we want you

451
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 2: to get better, we want to return you a better

452
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 2: human out in the world and be productive member of society.

453
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: It didn't feel that way. I knew that much, so

454
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: that wasn't hard to so there was elements of this

455
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 2: film where you just sort of leaned into it. You

456
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: lean into the way it may see that the cells

457
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: are so small as well, you're like, this is not

458
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: for human beings. It's just not And I think I

459
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: have a lot to say about that, but I think

460
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 2: I'll just leave it there.

461
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: So jumping off of that, is there a main message

462
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: you hope people walk away with from this film?

463
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 2: I do, and I think that my brothers who I

464
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: worked with, would echo this. Clarence Macklin would always say,

465
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: it's important that you know that that's a human being

466
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 2: and somebody who if you pour love into them, you

467
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 2: pour hope into them, they can change. And no one

468
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 2: should be judg which by the worst act, heinous act

469
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 2: that they There is a with accountability, with work. You know,

470
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: people are human and it's not even I think a

471
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 2: lot of times it's not even just about the actor.

472
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 2: It's about all the stuff that led up to that act,

473
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: all the just whether education, whether it's redlining, whether all

474
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: this stuff that's created a person to do this ort

475
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: to make a choice. In that way, we can we

476
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 2: as a as a society because it affects all of us.

477
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 2: Incarceration affects all of us. And I think that's the thing.

478
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: I think a lot of us didn't know that, like

479
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 2: this movie has anything to do with us. You're like, oh,

480
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: if you don't have somebody on the inside, you're like, yeah,

481
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 2: but it's not but just about the person you're inside.

482
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 2: It's all of us. It affects all of us. And

483
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: for me, I know for sure when I when it start,

484
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: I start to think how many there's a lot of

485
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 2: white folks inside too, but there's a lot of black

486
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: and brown people in there, and folks growing up without

487
00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: fathers and mothers, and you know, communities are suffering because

488
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people on the inside and we've

489
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 2: got to make some changes. So I think it helps

490
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: for me. I just want people to just think about it.

491
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: You don't have to actually, you don't have to do

492
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: anything right now, but because I feel like that's just

493
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 2: knee jerk, but you have to think about it and

494
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 2: think about people as being people and it's human and

495
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: how do we take care of each other all everyone,

496
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: you know, and how do we advocate for everyone? And

497
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 2: everyone's liberation And I don't mean like liberation is free,

498
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 2: but I mean liberation of the heart in the mind.

499
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 2: I think. I think that's why I was drawn to it,

500
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,239
Speaker 2: because I think, here's an opportunity to get behind this

501
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 2: an art, to show a different shed a different light

502
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 2: on people. You know. I know that it's a conscious thing.

503
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: It's very conscious with the filmmakers that we sort of

504
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: lead right up to a moment that you think you've

505
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 2: seen before. Oh, here comes that movie, here comes Shaw Shank.

506
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 2: Oh this when he gets stabbed. Oh he's going to

507
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: get punched out now, And it never happens because the

508
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 2: film's working on you, like the programs working on them

509
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 2: at the same time, so we all transformed together. That's

510
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 2: what I think for me, that's the joy. For me.

511
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, you thought you knew who these people were,

512
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 2: but now you know them as people, not a number.

513
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: You seem like a very changed man after doing this project,

514
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: and I feel it with what you're saying, and I

515
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: see it within you, And I think as an artist,

516
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: you always want to grow and evolve and hopefully change

517
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: for the better. Right, But what do you think was

518
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: the most surprising thing that changed about you after going

519
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: through this entire process?

520
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: What surprised about me?

521
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: Did you come out of it like wow, I feel

522
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: a different way, or I didn't expect to think that,

523
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: or I had a preconceived notion like what for me

524
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: I did?

525
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: I think I had preconceived notions like everyone else. Honestly,

526
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: I'm sure I did. And I made a point. I

527
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: think the thing that I I'm gonna say this, when

528
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: when you make a choice to do work like this,

529
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 2: you know you're hoping for change in some way you're hoping.

530
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: I know that I have a bit more of a

531
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: louder microphone these days, right, and I have a choice,

532
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 2: many choices on what I do and then. But as

533
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: a producer and as an actor, you make room for

534
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 2: work like this. And I'll tell you this also, this

535
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 2: is another thing I wanted to tell you about this

536
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 2: because it's not even just a role or a film,

537
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 2: it's the way we make it as well. I was

538
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: very proud to come on board as a producer and

539
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: because we were talking about that we would make this

540
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: a community based film, and because people are giving over

541
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: their life stories as well to make sure that everyone

542
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: and that means everyone above and below the line are

543
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: paid equally and every single person shares in the profit.

544
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: So it's a model that they created for this film,

545
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,479
Speaker 2: and my producers and I think it's just phenomenal. And

546
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: so when we you know, we we built our equity

547
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: very you know, pretty low with Black Bear as well,

548
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: and then we eventually, you know, sold it to our

549
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: distribution partners at age twenty four. And how beautiful is

550
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: it to you know, take care of people and everyone

551
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: feels like that they have ownership of the film, like

552
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: really have ownership of it. So I feel like I can.

553
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: It's changing me in that way. It's giving me the

554
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: thing that I started to do when I was twenty

555
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: one years old and I had a lot of energy

556
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: and I started theater companies. I'm still doing that, but

557
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: I just have a bit more of a platform now.

558
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 2: But I'm still doing the thing that I started out doing,

559
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: which was like I wanted to create work and do

560
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 2: it and make sure that everyone's seen and everyone feels

561
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: you know, valuable and all that stuff. So I feel like,

562
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, I feel like I'm walking away a

563
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 2: bit a bit stronger in that way, knowing that I

564
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: could make a difference, and I really can make a

565
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 2: difference in people's lives.

566
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: You know, how inadequate do I feel sitting next to

567
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: Coleman Domingo. I mean, like, this is crazy. Coleman. I

568
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: adore you, I love you. I'm so blessed to know you.

569
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: It's no surprise you're getting awards buzz for this movie,

570
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: and I know it's not about that, but well deserved,

571
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: my friend. I'm so proud of you. Thank you everybody

572
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: for hanging out. If you can do me a favor

573
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,479
Speaker 1: and just stay seated for a minute, we would appreciate that,

574
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: and thank you. Let's give it up for Coleman di Mingo.

575
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

576
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me Tommy Didario.

577
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio

578
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've

579
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Duran

580
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: podcast network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate review and

581
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,

582
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy Didario. Mm

583
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: hmm