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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norrey with you.

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Speaker 2: Heidi Hollis is an author and researcher who is credited

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Speaker 2: for discovering, naming, and defining, as I mentioned, shadow people

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Speaker 2: in the hat Band. Her research reveals a striking bridge

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Speaker 2: between euphology, the strange and unusual, the paranormal, and the spiritual,

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Speaker 2: which exposes what she calls a secret war that spans

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Speaker 2: dimensions and consciousness itself. She's got a couple books out

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Speaker 2: on the Hatman, and we'll talk to her about that

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Speaker 2: later on in the program. Her website is linked up

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Speaker 2: at Coast tocoastam dot com. Heidi Hollis back on the program.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Heidi, Hey there, George.

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Speaker 2: How are you great? How about yourself?

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Speaker 3: Survive? And it's starting to get cold where I'm at?

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Speaker 2: And where is that?

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Speaker 3: I'm in Wisconsin, believe it or not.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm in Missouri right now, so I'm going right

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Speaker 2: next to you.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, hey, you could suffer along with me. I

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Speaker 3: don't like the cold mutt.

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Speaker 2: You ever get away bunch?

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Speaker 3: You know? When I'm on task, like I am right

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Speaker 3: now completing a couple of new books. I really don't

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Speaker 3: care to go anywhere. I'm on task right now, George,

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Speaker 3: those books are burning in me.

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Speaker 2: Well, Hedy, let me first of all thank you for

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Speaker 2: the years of service you have dedicated to this program

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Speaker 2: in all ways paranormal. Thank you. We really appreciate it, George.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for giving a college kid of break to hop

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Speaker 3: on a major show like yours. And you know, we

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Speaker 3: kind of brought two whole new concepts into the field

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Speaker 3: and you gave me that opportunity, and it's spread worldwide

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Speaker 3: and the warning is out there, George, because you did that.

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Speaker 3: So I appreciate you and all that you've done.

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Speaker 2: When you came up with the shadow person and the

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Speaker 2: hat Man, what did you see? What happened?

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Speaker 3: Well, it was something that I personally was dealing with.

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Speaker 3: I was seeing something that I just had words for.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in a haunted house. I knew what

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Speaker 3: a ghost looked like. I'd seen UFOs, but I was

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Speaker 3: experiencing something that seemed to have a contagion element to

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Speaker 3: it that I just couldn't understand. I saw something following

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Speaker 3: my friend that I describe as the head and shoulder

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Speaker 3: looking shadow being, and it kind of looks like a

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Speaker 3: hulking man with its head directly connected to it, shoulders glowing,

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Speaker 3: slanted red eyes, and didn't really have a solid form

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Speaker 3: to its lower part of its body. I saw it

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Speaker 3: following us in broad daylight. I drew a picture of it,

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Speaker 3: showing my friend what I'd seen, and before I knew it,

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Speaker 3: I gone upstairs of staying at her family's home, and

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Speaker 3: this thing confronted me. And I didn't even know how

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Speaker 3: to even put into words, the fear, the level of

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Speaker 3: evil that was coming off this thing. Like when you

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Speaker 3: see a ghost, you experience it's a ghost. When you

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Speaker 3: see shadow people, it's like your soul is screaming, get

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Speaker 3: out of there, like something is deeply, deeply wrong. And

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Speaker 3: I did my best, though I was terrified and had

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Speaker 3: to walk through it. But I didn't realize that this phenomena,

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Speaker 3: whatever it was that I had just experienced, had actually

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Speaker 3: translated into something that I fear more than anything, Georgia

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Speaker 3: or spiders. And I started seeing and started seeing giant

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Speaker 3: shadow spiders. I had no idea why I was suddenly

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Speaker 3: having these absolute jump out of my bed at night

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Speaker 3: night terror like episodes and I'd opened my eyes though,

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Speaker 3: and they're still in the room. So how are you

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Speaker 3: dreaming something and you open your eyes and it's actually there.

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Speaker 3: So it happened for quite some time, and you know,

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Speaker 3: when I was trying to explain it to my friends,

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Speaker 3: I got tired of, you know, these shadowy looking things,

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Speaker 3: and I'm just like, you know, shadow people, because I

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Speaker 3: I would see the other ones that head and shoulder

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Speaker 3: looking shadow ones too, and these wispy things going past me.

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Speaker 3: So I just, you know, used that term. And you know,

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Speaker 3: people knew what I was talking about them because I'd

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Speaker 3: already explained it to them, and it was something that

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Speaker 3: I never thought I would find answers to. But one

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Speaker 3: element to this whole story that a lot of people

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Speaker 3: drop off when they spread the word about shadow people

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Speaker 3: or hat Man said, I got the definitions and the

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Speaker 3: understandings of evil and these evil dark things from a

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Speaker 3: non human being that said it worked for Christ Wow.

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Speaker 3: And it looked very much like a small child. It

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Speaker 3: looked it was. It was non human. I had the

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Speaker 3: bigger eyes, but they were more rounded. It was more

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Speaker 3: fleshy colored, and I never thought of, you know, like

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Speaker 3: a cherub angel but all I knew it was positive.

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Speaker 3: Myself and my college roommate had experienced it together, and

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Speaker 3: it was It was a fascinating experience for myself and

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Speaker 3: my friend because I had no reference point to pull from,

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Speaker 3: like ghost nope, shadow being nope. But I knew that

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Speaker 3: I was attending this group that had people who had

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Speaker 3: experienced alien abduction, and they were actually people who were

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Speaker 3: being treated by the psychologists who started this group because

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Speaker 3: she noticed that all these people after she regressed them,

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Speaker 3: they were having you know, PTSD like symptoms, only to

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Speaker 3: be hypnotically regressed and find they were being having alien abductions.

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Speaker 3: I came along having seen very large UFOs and different

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Speaker 3: craft that were actually responding to me and showing up

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Speaker 3: when I was asking for them too. And so I

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Speaker 3: joined this group, and you know, these people were really

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Speaker 3: experiencing things that I wasn't very comfortable with. But I've

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Speaker 3: not been abducted, thank God. But so that was my

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Speaker 3: exposure to the whole alien abduction phenomena, that it was

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Speaker 3: something that other people were experiencing. But after I joined it,

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Speaker 3: I did get my apartment invaded by some alien beings,

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Speaker 3: a story that I've shared on here many times it

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Speaker 3: was not nice, but and I wasn't nice back to them.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, so that's that's how it started for me.

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Speaker 3: And it took some time to get a good understanding

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Speaker 3: and also getting my own memories back about It's one

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Speaker 3: of those far out things where I'm glad today that

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Speaker 3: it doesn't sound so far out anymore because other people

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Speaker 3: are talking about such things. But I got all my

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Speaker 3: memories back before I was born instantaneously, like without me trying.

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Speaker 3: It was just a moment that I was allowed to

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Speaker 3: remember while I'm walking and talking to one of my friends,

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Speaker 3: and I remembered I agreed to come here to warn

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Speaker 3: people about these demands things, and I wasn't to get married,

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Speaker 3: settled down, have kids. My life was not my own,

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Speaker 3: and I was okay with that, And it's just so

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Speaker 3: much came back to me and I started on task.

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Speaker 3: Since then, Georgian I wrote my first book in a

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Speaker 3: couple of months. Took four years to find a publisher finally,

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Speaker 3: But that was the one the Secret War, that first

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Speaker 3: introduced shadow people and hat Man to the world.

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Speaker 2: So Heidi some people that we'll see out of the

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Speaker 2: side of their eyes if something flashed by that looks

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Speaker 2: like a shadow something is that? Is that a shadow person?

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Speaker 3: It is? It's another fun that they take. And I

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Speaker 3: like to remind people that we were born with extra

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Speaker 3: cones to be able to see the difference between light

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Speaker 3: and dark on our peripheral vision more than our head

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Speaker 3: on vision, because you know, like if a baseball's coming,

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Speaker 3: you can duck and hide and all that. You don't

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Speaker 3: get all the great detail, but it allows you to

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Speaker 3: have more time to react. So that's why you're able

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Speaker 3: to see them better from your peripheral vision. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: these are the in betweens, George, that they kind of

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Speaker 3: slide in and are trying to avoid being seen. And

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Speaker 3: that's something that shadow people. They don't like to be seen.

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Speaker 3: They like to avoid allowing you to have the upper

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Speaker 3: hand because if you could see them coming, you could

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Speaker 3: prepare yourself, even by flicking on a light. They don't

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Speaker 3: like that as much. Sure they could still show up

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Speaker 3: like the first one I saw, but it's something that

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Speaker 3: they don't prefer.

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Speaker 2: Now, let's talk about evil for a moment. Give me

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Speaker 2: your definition idea of what evil is.

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Speaker 3: The definition for me is the absence of anything good,

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Speaker 3: love or light. It is absolutely foreign to us, it

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Speaker 3: is something that's not a part of the human experience,

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Speaker 3: and we know this. It's so in us to know

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Speaker 3: that we could distinguish and know to put the tag

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Speaker 3: evil versus good, like it is just not really who

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Speaker 3: we truly are, and it is a foreign invader.

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Speaker 2: Why does it exist though? Why can't we eradicated?

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Speaker 3: You know? I think that's something that people have wrestled

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Speaker 3: with for a long time. But I know from the

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Speaker 3: experiences that I've had and others and things that I've researched,

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Speaker 3: is that evil exists because it's allowed to exist. If

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Speaker 3: it wasn't getting fed, it wouldn't grow, if it wasn't

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Speaker 3: being nurtured, if it wasn't able to get a fulfillment,

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Speaker 3: it just wouldn't be here. And we hear the age

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Speaker 3: old thing about Adam and Eve and how it was chosen,

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Speaker 3: but was it really I like to look at how people,

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Speaker 3: going back to the shadow people element, that these things

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Speaker 3: come into people's lives for a lot of different reasons.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people get trapped in a hell like

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Speaker 3: place and it's like, well, those people are there because

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Speaker 3: they had an absence of good, right, It's like, no,

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Speaker 3: not really, because how it was explained to me by

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Speaker 3: this angelic like being and others that people are getting tricked.

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Speaker 3: People are absolutely getting tricked. And so do we fault

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Speaker 3: these people and punish them for eternity because they got tricked.

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Speaker 3: It's like, no, it's not right. We know it's not right.

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Speaker 3: And when we think about how these different bits of

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Speaker 3: evil are able to get under our skin and convince

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Speaker 3: us to eat the wrong fruit or you know, make

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Speaker 3: a left instead of a right, or you know, to

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Speaker 3: pet a dog or kick a dog, I think that

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Speaker 3: there's some thing that we have to give ourselves a

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Speaker 3: bit of a break with that, honestly, because if you

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Speaker 3: can imagine, and I've brought this example up a few

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Speaker 3: other times too, it's like there's literally an angel on

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Speaker 3: one shoulder and a devil on the other whispering in

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Speaker 3: your ear, pulling your strings. Or you have a dream

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Speaker 3: of somebody's given you that fruit and you know something's wrong,

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Speaker 3: but you take it anyway, and it's like, oh, they

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Speaker 3: got you because you did an accepting like gesture, You

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Speaker 3: took something, you opened a door or whatever it is,

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Speaker 3: and they got in, Like, how is that fair? It's

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Speaker 3: not fair, but it is a way of going against

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Speaker 3: our own natural instinct to open up to something we

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Speaker 3: know is negative. Our gut told us something, but we

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Speaker 3: didn't listen, So we're feeding into it whether we know

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Speaker 3: it or not.

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Speaker 2: Is evil a product of the devil?

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: How it was explained to me. It is not from here.

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Speaker 3: Quite literally, we're hearing all over and talk about interdimensional beings,

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Speaker 3: and it's a truth. And I think you and I

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Speaker 3: have talked about the shadow people hat Man thing for

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Speaker 3: quite some time, to the point that I think it

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Speaker 3: was these They were the first interdimensional beings that were

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Speaker 3: brought out in full spectrum. I was told that they

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Speaker 3: come from a dark source. There is a light source

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Speaker 3: that most beings come from, but these things literally are

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Speaker 3: created by another force, and it's something that has taken

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Speaker 3: over different aspects of dimensions and universes, and it is

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Speaker 3: just something that that it does. It's like light attracts light,

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Speaker 3: dark attracts dark. Sure, there are these archetypes that are

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Speaker 3: out there that we imagine what evil would look like,

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Speaker 3: and with the power of suggestion or our consciousness, we're

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Speaker 3: able to manifest some of these things, sometimes as a

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Speaker 3: tulpa or whatever it is. But all I know is

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Speaker 3: they could take any form. Shadow, people can shape shift,

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Speaker 3: hat man can become solid or become a shadow as well.

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Speaker 3: So I think there is there's something to be said

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Speaker 3: about this ancient battle that's been depicted in so many

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Speaker 3: different texts throughout time, and we know it's been something

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Speaker 3: mankind has been up against, and I just hope people

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Speaker 3: really take it more seriously than they have.

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Speaker 2: Are we born with evil? Heidi?

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't think so, because like even when

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Speaker 3: you hear of serial killers, their mother will say, but

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Speaker 3: they were a great son, so they there's goodness there, right,

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Speaker 3: But what did they listen to? What what voice? What

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Speaker 3: encouragement did they follow? I think we all have the

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Speaker 3: the the likelihood to make mistakes, but to really enjoy

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Speaker 3: those mistakes. It's like, Okay, you know some people snack

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Speaker 3: late at night and they're like, oh, this is so

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Speaker 3: evil of me, But come on, there's different levels of

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Speaker 3: evil too. But it's like I think that I think

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Speaker 3: that I think that there is most definitely an element

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Speaker 3: that's in us to feed into it and allow things

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Speaker 3: to be enjoyed or not. And I'm hoping again it's

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Speaker 3: that I think there's this lack of understanding that we

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Speaker 3: have a soul is a big part of the problem

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Speaker 3: because people are so caught up in their screens in

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Speaker 3: this physical world and what their hair looks like in

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Speaker 3: the morning, or and this shallow thinking. They don't go

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Speaker 3: deeper to realize and really get to know themselves, like

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Speaker 3: why are they here? They got born into this world

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Speaker 3: and they can't even get water for free. They have

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Speaker 3: to pay for everything, and they're stuck in this loop.

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Speaker 3: And darkness can creep in if you allow it to to,

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Speaker 3: if you're just got this mentality of this physicality just

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Speaker 3: being here in this moment. But if we look within,

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Speaker 3: I think people will start to realize that is really

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Speaker 3: truly good inside, that that is real goodness there, that

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Speaker 3: you came from something positive. And you know a lot

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Speaker 3: of people get caught up again in family dramas and

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Speaker 3: you know, not having enough. I loved to go around,

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Speaker 3: But you have to love yourself, right, And I think

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Speaker 3: that's taking back your power away from darkness that's around you.

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Speaker 2: Have you come across pure evil in your career.

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I think so. Most definitely. Hat Man is

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Speaker 3: not my friend, and he is quite literally and claims

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Speaker 3: to be the devil himself, and unless you've been met

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Speaker 3: with that presence, I think a lot of people don't

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Speaker 3: understand what evil can feel quite like at that level. Like, sure,

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Speaker 3: we can get a vibe off somebody, but to be

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Speaker 3: in the presence. Like when I first introduced these topics,

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Speaker 3: I had so many ghost hunters saying, ah, shadow people

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Speaker 3: are just the ghosts of I'm sorry, the shadows of

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Speaker 3: a ghost. And I'm like, then you haven't met a

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Speaker 3: shadow per because you will feel it. You you can't

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Speaker 3: help but to feel and know something is very different

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Speaker 3: about what is you're experiencing because you can absolutely feel

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Speaker 3: this thing wants to kill you. It wants to have

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Speaker 3: and own your very soul. So to have that utter

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Speaker 3: element of evil existing in a form it's so heavy

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Speaker 3: and it's in the things, the atrocities that it's able

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Speaker 3: to do. It lets you know that evil can possess,

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Speaker 3: take over, and really dominate a person's world, life and soul. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: it could consume you, can it? Oh gosh, Yes, it's

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Speaker 3: it's something that people think they could take on themselves.

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Speaker 3: I see people approaching some of these dark topics like

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go and lay in a graveyard overnight, like

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Speaker 3: why why, why do that? You are opening yourself up,

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Speaker 3: you are taking the fruit and saying, have at me.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of people are shocked at the level

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Speaker 3: that these things can come at them. We can't take

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Speaker 3: this stuff on alone. It's an ancient, ancient and powerful entity,

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Speaker 3: and they do have a connecting force, this dark source.

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Speaker 3: You hear psychics say, oh, the source told me this.

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Speaker 3: The source told me that. Well, these dark things have

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Speaker 3: their source speaking to them as well. And if you

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Speaker 3: can imagine something as massive and almost as powerful, it's

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Speaker 3: quite overwhelming and can ruin a person, and many souls

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Speaker 3: have fallen to the shadows unfortunately.

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