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Speaker 1: Welcome to Out of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking personal finance for geniuses with Adam Nash.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're not speaking in hyperbole to say that

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Speaker 2: we're talking about money but for geniuses. That's because our

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Speaker 2: guest today Adam Nash. He is an adjunct lecturer at

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Speaker 2: Stanford University, which is of course full of very smart folks.

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Speaker 2: I've heard that you got GPA's, you got SAT scores

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Speaker 2: that are super high? Is a course on money? Is

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Speaker 2: that even necessary? That is some of what we'll discuss today.

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Speaker 2: But Adam is more than just a personal finance enthusiast.

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Speaker 2: His career spans roles at companies like dropbox, eBay, and

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Speaker 2: even Apple, just to name a few that I literally

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Speaker 2: use on a daily basis. And he's currently serving as

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Speaker 2: the CEO. He's the co founder of Daffy, which is

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Speaker 2: a fintech platform centered around charitable giving. So even though

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Speaker 2: it's not December, we're also going to talk about strategically

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Speaker 2: giving your money away. Adam, thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: joining us today.

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Speaker 3: Great to be here.

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Speaker 1: We're glad to have you, Adam. This is gonna be

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Speaker 1: really really fun. Combo The first question though, that we

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Speaker 1: have to ask, we ask everybody who comes on the show,

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Speaker 1: is what's your craft beer equivalent? That's because Matt and

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Speaker 1: I spend maybe too much money, some would say on

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Speaker 1: craft beer. Well, we don't think it's too much because

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Speaker 1: we're still doing the smart stuff, saving and investing for

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Speaker 1: our future. So what is it that maybe you spend

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Speaker 1: more money than some people would think is saying on

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Speaker 1: in the current moment, but you're still doing the right

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Speaker 1: thing with your money for the long term.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I have a few hobbies, as it

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Speaker 3: turns out, but I'm a big believer in having a

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Speaker 3: couple splurges, something that you feel comforable, spending a little

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Speaker 3: bit on to remind you of you know, what the

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Speaker 3: money's for, and enjoying life. The problem is, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of a big nerd, so my things may

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Speaker 3: not be as cool as as craft beer. My first splurge, Actually,

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Speaker 3: I remember when LinkedIn went public. My my first splurge

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Speaker 3: was I stopped worrying about buying books. So I used

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Speaker 3: to always have this thing where like, do I have

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Speaker 3: time to read it? Is it worth it? Et cetera. Now,

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Speaker 3: last ten years, if someone recommends a book to me,

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Speaker 3: I just order it on Amazon. I have the book.

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Speaker 1: You don't even go used.

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Speaker 2: I like, he doesn't even go to he doesn't even

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Speaker 2: check the Libbya or Hoople to see if you can,

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Speaker 2: if you can know.

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Speaker 3: I just I just buy the book. I love books.

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Speaker 3: I love my bookshelves. You know, I love having them.

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Speaker 3: I love having sacks of books around. My wife is

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Speaker 3: fairly tolerant of piles of books building up everywhere. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: my big splurge is that when anyone asked me, anyone

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Speaker 3: recommends a book to me, says it's amazing, they loved it,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. I just order it right away on my phone.

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Speaker 1: Okay, do you ever use audiobooks or is it all

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Speaker 1: you know?

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Speaker 3: I don't. I never really adapted to audio books. I

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Speaker 3: enjoy reading and I love printed pages. I don't do ebooks.

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Speaker 2: I so you're not even rocking like a paper was

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Speaker 2: like a paper white the kindle or you know.

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Speaker 3: I can't for some reason, I don't focus the same way.

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Speaker 3: There's something. Maybe it's just the way I was brought

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Speaker 3: up and read. But you know, my ability to get

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Speaker 3: lost in a physical book for even twenty thirty sixty

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Speaker 3: minutes is just very, very different than when I'm using

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Speaker 3: a device. And I'm not sure why.

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Speaker 2: The smell of the paper, the ink, perhaps the parchment,

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Speaker 2: all of it combined. That's right, there's something there is,

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Speaker 2: Adam a perpetual learner. Let's talk about your story, because

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Speaker 2: you've been in the space of making financial tools more accessible.

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Speaker 2: When did you know that this was the direction you

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Speaker 2: wanted to go in or was it more.

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Speaker 3: Of a gradual process? Was there did you?

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Speaker 2: Was there an epiphany the one morning when you woke

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Speaker 2: up and decided on that. Share some of your background please.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I'm happy to And my background isn't that

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Speaker 3: unusual for Silicon Valley? Right? I came out of school

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Speaker 3: with a couple of degrees and engineering and a real

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Speaker 3: focus on what was called human computer interaction, which is

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Speaker 3: all about the ways that you know, people interact with technology. Right.

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Speaker 3: Technology is very rigid, it's it's very logical, it's ones

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Speaker 3: and zeros. It works or it doesn't work. Humans we

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Speaker 3: have emotions, we have feelings. It's not about the specifics

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Speaker 3: as much as about you know, what we're what we

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Speaker 3: feel like we're doing. And so I was always fascinated

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Speaker 3: with this growing use of technology and more and more

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Speaker 3: spheres of our life. And so that's why I dedicated

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Speaker 3: my career to and so almost every company I've been

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Speaker 3: at has been something exciting where technology was entering a

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Speaker 3: new area. You know, eBay, you know, building marketplaces where

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Speaker 3: you know, small businesses around the world could sell their

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Speaker 3: products and services, where people could sell to each other.

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Speaker 3: LinkedIn was all about giving people the tools to manage

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Speaker 3: their own professional lives and careers. But in twenty twelve

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Speaker 3: I discovered this new category that we now call fintech,

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Speaker 3: which is really about, hey, how do we solve financial

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Speaker 3: problems for people in software? And that's how I ended

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Speaker 3: up being the CEO of well Front for a number

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Speaker 3: of years, and so the last ten years or more,

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Speaker 3: I've been very much focused on how can we use

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Speaker 3: software to help people with their financial lives.

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Speaker 1: I love it, yeah, And I love how you talk

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Speaker 1: about kind of the personality that you can give to technology,

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Speaker 1: which is typically a little more rigid. And we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about the company that you currently run called

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Speaker 1: Daffi in a little bit, but you've done a great

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Speaker 1: job with that. I think the interface is very engaging

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Speaker 1: for people who want to invest dollars to give away

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Speaker 1: for in the future. But with all of your history

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Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley, you've worked for a bunch of great companies,

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Speaker 1: Matt rattle some of them off at the beginning. I'd

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Speaker 1: love to hear from you, though, what in your mind

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Speaker 1: in running multiple companies as well, what does it take

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Speaker 1: to build a great company.

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Speaker 3: It's a very difficult problem because, like, let's be clear,

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Speaker 3: running a company is a difficult problem. Right, there's no

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Speaker 3: one who runs a business. I don't care what business

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Speaker 3: you're doing, a media business, you have, a restaurant, a

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Speaker 3: technology company. Running a business is difficult, and it's competitive,

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Speaker 3: and every year the game changes, right, nothing is standing still.

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Speaker 3: You can't just do the same thing one year that

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Speaker 3: you did the previous year. But when you're trying to

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Speaker 3: build a brand new company, it's doubly hard, more than

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Speaker 3: doubly hard, because you're trying to enter a market. Out

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Speaker 3: of all the thousands of millions of companies and businesses

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Speaker 3: out there, why does the world need another one? Right?

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Speaker 3: And so this area of how do you build a

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Speaker 3: new product and service, a new offering, build up a

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Speaker 3: new customer base really a hard problem. Now, I think

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Speaker 3: the good news is, in the last fifty years, thanks

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Speaker 3: to Silicon Valley and a number of other folks involved,

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Speaker 3: we've learned better the patterns of how to build new

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Speaker 3: technology companies. And there's a reason why technology companies are

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Speaker 3: a little bit easier in some ways to build, and

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Speaker 3: that's because technology constantly is giving this gift of new

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Speaker 3: things that are possible today that weren't really possible ten

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Speaker 3: years ago. Right, Moore's law and Metcalf's law, whatever your

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Speaker 3: favorite way of thinking about how technology progresses. The reality

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Speaker 3: is is that you could take a brilliant person today

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Speaker 3: with modern software and modern hardware, give them the same

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Speaker 3: problem that someone was given ten years ago, and they'll

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Speaker 3: come up with a new answer because the computers keep

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Speaker 3: getting faster, the technology keeps getting better, and so things

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Speaker 3: that used to be very, very expensive all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden become almost free, right, And so that applies everywhere.

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Speaker 3: And so when I approach these companies, almost all these

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Speaker 3: companies that I've been a part of represented this frontier

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Speaker 3: of like, hey, technology used to not be able to

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Speaker 3: help us with this problem, but maybe now it can.

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Speaker 3: And that's extended across Like I said, e commerce, you know,

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Speaker 3: buying and selling things, people's careers, how we socialize with

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Speaker 3: each other, and then of course managing money turns out

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Speaker 3: to be one of these areas where we used to

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Speaker 3: have to do it by hand and hire people to

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Speaker 3: help us do this, and some people still do. But

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Speaker 3: the tools and the services to help us manage our

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Speaker 3: own money keep getting better every year, every decade, and

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Speaker 3: I just find that very exciting and empowered.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And with the dawn of technology and how that

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Speaker 2: allows us to maybe invest smarter or save more strategically,

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Speaker 2: there are certain fundamentals and certain principles that don't change

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Speaker 2: quite as much. And on that note, you teach a

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Speaker 2: personal finance class basically at Stanford. Why do you think

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Speaker 2: personal finance is normally held in such low esteem? It

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Speaker 2: almost seems like something that institutions they just assume that

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Speaker 2: you should already know this, or they assume that this

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Speaker 2: is something that oh, by the way, you're just going

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Speaker 2: to kind of figure this out on your own, or

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Speaker 2: maybe we'll leave it to your employer. Depends like if

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Speaker 2: you've got someone great manning HR, maybe they'll give you

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Speaker 2: a few pointers on how much you should set aside

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Speaker 2: from your paycheck. I guess i'd like to hear your

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Speaker 2: thoughts on sort of the state of personal finance education

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Speaker 2: and how it's viewed today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I have a very strong opinion about this.

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Speaker 3: I think it's insane that we take children, we take

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Speaker 3: young adults, and throw them into the world and an

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Speaker 3: economy where there's such a complexity about not just financial products,

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Speaker 3: but how to make all the financial decisions, and we

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Speaker 3: give them no background or grounding to do it. Most

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Speaker 3: people learn personal finance the same way that they learn

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Speaker 3: about careers. I used to say at LinkedIn, right, it's

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Speaker 3: you know, you're basically limited this world, which is you

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Speaker 3: know the parents of your friends and the friends of

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Speaker 3: your parents, which is not the right way to help

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Speaker 3: educate people. I do think part of it is, ironically,

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Speaker 3: because personal finance isn't that difficult academically. So I think

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Speaker 3: when you get people who are very smart, they have

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Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty IQs, one hundred and forty IQ's,

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Speaker 3: hundred and sixty IQs, they tend to put personal finance

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Speaker 3: into a corner as if it isn't worth their time.

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Speaker 3: But listen, I don't care how high your IQ is

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Speaker 3: if you don't know what a credit card is or

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Speaker 3: how it functions, or you don't know what a mortgage is,

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Speaker 3: or how to think about a financial problem about you know,

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Speaker 3: saving for your kids college education. You have to learn

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Speaker 3: it somehow, and I wish that it was as simple

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Speaker 3: as doing your own research and just searching the internet.

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Speaker 3: But it turns out that there are trillions of dollars

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Speaker 3: in the world, and that means that there's trillions of

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Speaker 3: reasons for the Internet to get flooded with sales information

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Speaker 3: about all these financial products and services which frankly are

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Speaker 3: not set up to be good for you, or at

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Speaker 3: least good for everyone. And so for me, the class

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Speaker 3: was a big piece of giving back. It's the class

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Speaker 3: I wish existed when I was in school, and I've

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Speaker 3: actually opened up the material publicly so that other schools

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Speaker 3: and other areas. I'm hoping that more and more institutions

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Speaker 3: will borrow the material and use it to teach more

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Speaker 3: and more students, you know, what they need to know

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Speaker 3: before they go out into the world and start making

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Speaker 3: money themselves.

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Speaker 1: And we'll put a link to all those slides, all

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Speaker 1: that content in the show notes for this episode, because

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Speaker 1: I agree, especially as personal finance education becomes more mandatory

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Speaker 1: in high schools across the country. Teachers are going to

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Speaker 1: need curriculum to kind of help their students understand personal finance.

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Speaker 1: They might not know exactly how to go about teaching

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Speaker 1: those classes, and I think this is going to be

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Speaker 1: an invaluable resource. I mean, we've got a lot of

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Speaker 1: personal finance educators who listen to this podcast who teach

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Speaker 1: at schools around the country, so I'm sure they'll find

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Speaker 1: that really helpful. I'm curious, Adam, when you start the class,

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Speaker 1: you just mentioned a bunch of like nuts in both

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Speaker 1: personal finance topics that you cover, but that's not actually

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Speaker 1: where you start. You actually start talking about behavioral finance.

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Speaker 1: Why Why is that, like essentially the first or second

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Speaker 1: class that you begin the course with is talking about

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Speaker 1: kind of our behavioral anomalies.

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Speaker 3: Well, the reason I start with behavioral finance with emotions

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Speaker 3: with psychology is because I actually think that's not only

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Speaker 3: the hardest problem for most people when they're dealing with

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Speaker 3: money in their own lives, but it's also where most

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Speaker 3: people get tripped up, right it. You know, when we

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Speaker 3: look at money, we want to think of it as

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Speaker 3: dollars and cents, it's just numbers, it's just math. It

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Speaker 3: should be very rational, But money is tied up in

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Speaker 3: a lot of things that we care deeply about. You know,

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Speaker 3: money is rarely the goal by itself. It's a means

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Speaker 3: to an end though, for a lot of the things

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Speaker 3: that we care about in life, things that we care

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Speaker 3: about for ourselves, for our loved ones, for how we

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Speaker 3: evaluate our six sess et cetera. And so so I

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Speaker 3: always start with behavioral finance. I also do it because,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's been a lot of good progress. You know,

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Speaker 3: when I was in school thirty years ago, there wasn't

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Speaker 3: as much academic credibility around behavioral finance. There hadn't been

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Speaker 3: Nobel Prizes in the area, which there are now, and

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Speaker 3: so I think there's a greater understanding about how emotions

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Speaker 3: lead people to make poor financial decisions. And so I

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Speaker 3: always like to start the cost. Especially with young people,

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Speaker 3: they tend to feel like they're immortal, they can do anything,

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Speaker 3: all this optionality. They also have a little bit of

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Speaker 3: anxiety about going out into the world, and I find

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Speaker 3: it's a really great place to start to get them

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Speaker 3: to be to open up and just admit the fact

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Speaker 3: that they have feelings about money, that they have feelings

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Speaker 3: about success, and they have fear and they have aspiration.

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Speaker 3: And so by going through the emotions, then when we're

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Speaker 3: talking about you know, what does it mean to earn money?

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Speaker 3: What does it mean to save money? Why is it

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Speaker 3: so hard not to see spend more than you make?

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Speaker 3: Why is it so hard to invest properly? The emotional background,

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Speaker 3: the psychology background, helps them, I think, deal with those

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Speaker 3: decisions and understand why very smart people might do very

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Speaker 3: different things in the same situation.

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Speaker 1: Plus, if you start with budgeting, you're going to put

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Speaker 1: them to sleep, and that just like ruins the whole

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Speaker 1: rest of the course.

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Speaker 2: Well, I just love the idea of starting with vulnerability

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Speaker 2: because it makes everything else so much more real. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because if you are able to tap into some of

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Speaker 2: those emotions, then all of a sudden, this has gone

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Speaker 2: from something that was super boring and maybe how they

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Speaker 2: expected their dad to talk about it, to something that,

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Speaker 2: oh wow, all of a sudden, this is something that

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Speaker 2: matters to them on a deeper level.

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Speaker 3: Oh for sure. And what I find is that the

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Speaker 3: students have a lot of questions. In fact, right after

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Speaker 3: we cover behavioral finance, the next topic I cover which

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Speaker 3: most personal finance courses don't. Is I actually cover compensation

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Speaker 3: earning money? Right? You find that so much content out

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Speaker 3: there in personal finance is about how to control your spending,

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Speaker 3: how to how to pay off your debt, how to

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Speaker 3: how to buy a house, and these are all very

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Speaker 3: important financial goals, and they're important, but I actually like

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Speaker 3: to start with compensation, how people earn money and what

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Speaker 3: does that look like? And in fact I use I

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Speaker 3: mean these are students at Stanford, of course, so they

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Speaker 3: have a lot of very high end opportunities coming out

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Speaker 3: of school, but no one's actually talked to them about

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Speaker 3: what that offer letter is going to look like. You know, what,

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Speaker 3: what is the difference between salary and a bonus? What

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Speaker 3: what is the difference between hourly pay or an exempt salary? What?

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Speaker 3: What what is stock? What are stock options? What's restricted stock?

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Speaker 3: A lot of these students go off to work in technology,

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Speaker 3: and so I find that by starting with income, it

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Speaker 3: gets kind of people's energy going yeah, and I think

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Speaker 3: there's a real there's a real lesson there.

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Speaker 2: For a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: It's easier for them to think of ways to make

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Speaker 3: more money than it is for them to think of

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Speaker 3: ways to spend less, and both are important for financial excess.

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Speaker 3: But I do find starting with compensation gets people's energy going.

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Speaker 3: And then we can get into you described as budgeting.

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Speaker 3: You know, I tend to talk about, you know that

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Speaker 3: basics of you know, how do you make sure you

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Speaker 3: spend less than you make right that basic budget and

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Speaker 3: some of the downsides of budgets, and then we go

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Speaker 3: into assets and we talk about debt, and only then

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Speaker 3: do we get into the topic that everyone wants to

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Speaker 3: talk about, which is investing and how to turn some

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Speaker 3: of those savings into more money over time and compounding,

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Speaker 3: et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So, Okay, you just hinted at the downsides of budgeting.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious to hear your take on that. What you

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Speaker 1: know that because that is typically chapter number one in

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Speaker 1: every personal finance book. It starts the boring wrote way

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Speaker 1: talking about budgeting. Matt is more of a budgeter than

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Speaker 1: I am. We talked about on the show. I'm a

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Speaker 1: more free spirit. Matt's more technical, loves his his spreadsheets

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Speaker 1: can tell you what he spent on groceries back in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. That's how that's how nerdy he gets.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, tell me, what, in your view, what are

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Speaker 1: the downsides of budgeting?

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Speaker 3: Oh, Matt, Matt is my people. I have a quickened

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Speaker 3: file that goes back tonineteen ninety four, so I think, ooh,

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Speaker 3: little up on that. But but no, I'm listening. I'm

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Speaker 3: very positive on budgeting because I think the research that

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Speaker 3: I've seen pretty much indicates that even though most people

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Speaker 3: don't stick to their budget, people who budget or at

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Speaker 3: least look at their expenses on a semi regular basis

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Speaker 3: end up spending less money than people who don't. So

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Speaker 3: I'm net positive on budgeting. But it turns out mental

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Speaker 3: accounting this is one of those biases that we talk

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Speaker 3: about in behavioral finance, mental accounting. When you bucket money,

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Speaker 3: it's very powerful. It can lead you to do things

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't normally do. So. For example, if you make

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Speaker 3: a monthly budget where you set aside, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: three hundred dollars a month for clothing, there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of people who get to the you know, the last

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Speaker 3: week of the month, and they realize that they didn't

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Speaker 3: spend three hundred dollars on clothing this month, and they

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Speaker 3: almost feel like they're supposed to, right, and they actually

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Speaker 3: end up going out and buying sunglasses or you know,

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Speaker 3: an outfit or that sort of thing, when in reality,

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Speaker 3: the truth was they didn't actually need to spend that

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Speaker 3: money on clothing that month, and maybe they would need

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Speaker 3: a little more in a future month. And so budgets

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Speaker 3: have a funny way. I think high level budgets are good.

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Speaker 3: I think it's wonderful to go through your finances regularly

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Speaker 3: and see what you're spending money on. My wife and

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Speaker 3: I actually do an annual meeting where we talk through

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Speaker 3: our finances once a year. But I do think there's

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Speaker 3: a problem with budgeting where in some ways you can

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Speaker 3: start working for the budget and it can lead you

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Speaker 3: to make some financial decisions that aren't necessarily the right ones.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think. I think at times budgets are not

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Speaker 1: rooted in hopes, goals and dreams too, and so often

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Speaker 1: I don't know, we just kind of look at what

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Speaker 1: we spent last month. We try to make our budget

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Speaker 1: accommodate that. And I think, Matt, is you changed my

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Speaker 1: view on budgeting when you kind of talked about, well, no,

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Speaker 1: it's supposed to fuel the things that you want to

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Speaker 1: achieve in life, and so much if It comes back

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Speaker 1: down to that behavioral that why you know, what's the

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Speaker 1: money forward to begin with? And I think once we're

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Speaker 1: able to do that connect the dots, the budget becomes

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Speaker 1: less of a burden, and were of like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 1: look at what I'm going to working towards.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I agree with that. I'm definitely a fan

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Speaker 3: of frameworks that use things like wants and needs, right,

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Speaker 3: Like I do think that the value of budgets. A

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Speaker 3: lot of people have different levels of anxiety about money,

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Speaker 3: which really comes down to sometimes how they were brought up,

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Speaker 3: but also the anxiety that can come from not having

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Speaker 3: money for the things that are most important to them,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of people don't actually give that a

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Speaker 3: lot of thought. What actually is important to you? A

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Speaker 3: lot of couples never have that discussion, right. It comes

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Speaker 3: out in arguments, it comes out in panic, it comes

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Speaker 3: out in moments where you're worried about things. But the

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Speaker 3: truth is, if you're at all introspective, you can be

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Speaker 3: honest about the expenses. For some people, they would feel

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Speaker 3: like a failure if they didn't provide for their kids

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Speaker 3: college education. Right, It's not a rational thing. Something happened

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Speaker 3: to them growing up maybe they had to struggle to

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Speaker 3: pay for it themselves and they wanted to believe that

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Speaker 3: their children wouldn't have to struggle the same way. Or

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Speaker 3: maybe maybe actually their parents covered their college education. They

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Speaker 3: feel like they wouldn't be doing as well as their

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Speaker 3: parents if they didn't cover it for their children. Whatever

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Speaker 3: the reason is, it's not rational, it's an emotional response.

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Speaker 3: It's a judgment. But we don't give enough space for

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Speaker 3: us to talk about the things that give us life

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Speaker 3: both joy and things that we would regret if we

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Speaker 3: didn't do. And so I'm a big fan of people

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Speaker 3: being open and honest about these things, making that list

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Speaker 3: of not just the things that they need, but also

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Speaker 3: the things that are important to them, and make sure

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Speaker 3: that their financial goals actually line up with what's going

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Speaker 3: to bring them the most reward emotionally.

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Speaker 2: I love that that's such a I think healthy, holistic

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Speaker 2: approach to money, right as opposed to in regards to

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Speaker 2: your overall class and how you are approaching personal finances.

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Speaker 2: You're not telling folks to all right, let's start with

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Speaker 2: the nuts and bolts, and this is how you need

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Speaker 2: to start investing. Because if you were to focus on

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Speaker 2: some of those specific skills. What you're doing is creating

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Speaker 2: a class of practitioners of a bunch of people who

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Speaker 2: know how to do certain things with their money, but

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Speaker 2: they don't know why they're doing those things. And we

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Speaker 2: try to take a step back and connect individuals with,

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Speaker 2: like you said, why it is that they're saving and investing,

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Speaker 2: why it is that they're choosing not to spend some

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Speaker 2: money in certain ways. It's almost it's more like a

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Speaker 2: classical liberal arts sort of approach to like zoom out

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Speaker 2: and to be able to see the entire force and

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Speaker 2: to understand why it is that you're doing these things,

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Speaker 2: because then that can fuel the inevitable roadblocks and hurdles

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Speaker 2: that we encounter that causes us to kind of fall

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Speaker 2: off the wagon and dish the budget in the first place.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's right, and you have to leave room. Like

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Speaker 3: I said, what's the money for? Right? Like the reason

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Speaker 3: people always struggle between the future and the present and

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Speaker 3: what they're doing right now versus what's coming down the

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Speaker 3: road is they don't tend to ask those questions to

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Speaker 3: think clearly about what's really important to them. But you know,

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Speaker 3: the day to day is important too. You need to

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Speaker 3: live your life right. You know, I'm a big fan

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Speaker 3: of thinking of these problems. Like I said, I I

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Speaker 3: encourage people to think about how they can make more money,

433
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 3: or what they do for a living, or being honest

434
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 3: about the career path that they're going down, not just

435
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 3: pros and cons, but what kind of life it builds

436
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 3: for them. I really think that for most people, they're

437
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 3: really trying to build a life. It's not a number

438
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 3: in their bank account. It's not anything specific, not one

439
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 3: action or one goal. There's a certain life that people

440
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 3: want to live that brings them more joy. It also

441
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 3: gives them more fulfillment. They feel good. Some of the

442
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 3: happiest people I know are working incredibly hard, but they're

443
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 3: incredibly motivated and inspired by what they're doing. And so

444
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 3: I encourage the class to think of it that way,

445
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 3: to go beyond the actual dollars and cents themselves to

446
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 3: what they're actually fighting for, what do they want to do.

447
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 3: But it is very important that they learn the math.

448
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 3: It's very important that they actually learn how the numbers work,

449
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 3: because there are some decisions that you make that seem

450
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 3: like just small decisions but actually can be very expensive. Right.

451
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 3: I mean, when we talk about investing right. It turns

452
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:03,360
Speaker 3: out fees intact are actually very expensive mistakes that people make.

453
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 3: We live in a country where if you hold the

454
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 3: stock for three hundred and sixty four days, that tax

455
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 3: rate will be much higher than three hundred and sixty

456
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 3: five days. That's not a law of nature. That's a

457
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 3: rule we made up, but it is a real rule.

458
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 3: And so I try to have the class be a

459
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 3: blend of kind of knowing how to do the math

460
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 3: to find the right answer, but then also ask the

461
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 3: questions of what is your priority and what are you

462
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 3: trying to do with your life?

463
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to run the gamut. You got to

464
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: do both, and you got to talk about the ins

465
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: and outs of Well, if you buy the new car

466
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 1: versus the eight year old used car, how much is

467
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: that going to cost you in terms of monthly payment,

468
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,719
Speaker 1: let's say, or not being able to pay cash for it,

469
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 1: and then all the other additional costs that go along

470
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: with buying the newer car. Higher interest rates, right now,

471
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff should factor into the discussion.

472
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,719
Speaker 1: You talk about savings rate too, Adam, and that's one

473
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 1: of the things you hone in on, and you actually

474
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 1: criticize the ten percent blanket suggestion that most folks tend

475
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: to give curious because most folks tend to save less

476
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: than that in the United States of America. So ten

477
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: percent is actually a high bar for many people who

478
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 1: aren't hitting that yet. Why is that too little, though,

479
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: and what's the ideal savings rate in your opinion?

480
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm negative on it. As much

481
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 3: as I joke about it, I do, I do. I

482
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 3: am a fan of ten percent. It's better than nine

483
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 3: percent and not as good as eleven. But my joke

484
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 3: in the class very much is is that you know,

485
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 3: there's no mathematical background for the ten percent. It really

486
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 3: just comes down to the fact that humans like the

487
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 3: number ten. I mean, we have ten fingers, right Like.

488
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 3: It's like Jerry maguire, It's like, why do agents charge

489
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 3: ten percent? Why is everything ten? We just like ten?

490
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 3: We have ten fingers. I feel bad. I feel like

491
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 3: Mickey and Minnie probably only save eight percent, one less

492
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 3: finger on each hand. But no, So what I teach

493
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 3: you my class, though, is that the real answer is

494
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 3: that it's a marathon, not a sprint, and that every

495
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 3: single percent that you say right that you less than

496
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 3: you make is a win on both sides of the equation. Right,

497
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 3: on the one hand, you're learning to live on less. Right,

498
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 3: so when you save ten percent, it means you're learning

499
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 3: to live on ninety percent of your salary, which means

500
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 3: that your goal doesn't have to be as high. You

501
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 3: don't have to replace all your income in retirement. You

502
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 3: just have to replace ninety percent. And the great thing

503
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 3: is that every percent you save also gives you more

504
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 3: capital to hit that goal. So you have more money

505
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 3: to hit your goal, and you've actually reduced the goal.

506
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 3: And so I really encourage people to think of ways

507
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 3: they can always move that number up to a reasonable place, right,

508
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 3: you know, And because a lot of young people, a

509
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 3: lot of the students come out of the class, they

510
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 3: can't save ten percent. They come out, they save three percent,

511
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 3: four percent, five percent, they get discouraged. They shouldn't get discouraged. Right,

512
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 3: If every year they move that number up a percent

513
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 3: or two, right, they don't spend that cost of living adjustment,

514
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 3: they get a promotion, and they don't spend the promote dollars,

515
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 3: they can very quickly get to a place where they're

516
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 3: saving ten percent or more. And remember a lot of

517
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 3: my class are engineers. They're going to Silicon Valley. These

518
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: are folks who are not the average American in terms

519
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 3: of compensation. They're actually going to come out of school

520
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 3: and make more than the average household on day one.

521
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 3: They should be able to save more if they don't

522
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 3: get into bad habits of spending everything they make and more,

523
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 3: which is why I try to hit that topic as

524
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 3: hard as I do in the class.

525
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: It makes sense try to keep that spending in check. Well, Adam,

526
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 2: we've got more to get to where we're kind of

527
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: talking about personal finance like one oh one essentially to

528
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 2: a certain extent here, but we want to talk about

529
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 2: something that's maybe a little more advanced. Giving your money

530
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 2: away and donor advise funds. They're not just for the

531
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 2: richie rich type folks out there. It's something that's possible

532
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 2: and available to all folks. We'll talk about that and

533
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: more right after this.

534
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: All right, we'll back from the break. We're still talking

535
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: with Adam Nash, the CEO of Daffy, a super cool

536
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: donor advised fund app and website. We'll get into specifics

537
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: on that in just a second. But Adam, here we

538
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: were just talking about ten percent the kind of artificially

539
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 1: constructed advice savings rate that so many personal finance official

540
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: NADOs have come up with, and how that's you know,

541
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: not one size so it's all and that can change

542
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: across time. Let's talk about giving now, that's also I

543
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: think the knee jerk response about how much money should

544
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: you give? Well ten percent of your income, and that

545
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 1: has I think a lot to do with religious tradition,

546
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: tithing being one of those how do you think about giving?

547
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: As someone who runs an app and is really intentional

548
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: about how they give their money away, you, how do

549
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: you think about and you know, give people advice on

550
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: how much money they should be giving away.

551
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 3: That's funny you asked this question. So when before we

552
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 3: wrote one line of code, before we had even actually

553
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 3: incorporated the company, I spent some time talking to dozens

554
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: of people across the country about how they think about giving.

555
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 3: And what I was hoping for was a simple answer

556
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 3: to that question of what is the right amount to give?

557
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: But it turns out if you ask about twenty Americans

558
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 3: what's the right number to give, you get about twenty answers,

559
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 3: and they're not even numbers. Some people think of it

560
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 3: as a percentage. Some people think of it as an

561
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: absolute amount, like you should give at least five hundred

562
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: dollars to charity every year. Some people think it has

563
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 3: to do with how good your year was. It's almost like,

564
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't want to say. It's almost

565
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 3: like in Las Vegas, like tipping the dealer when you

566
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 3: have a good have a good night, or that sort

567
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 3: of thing. People have good years and not so good years.

568
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 3: So what really struck me was that there there wasn't

569
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: one answer about the right number. What I did find

570
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 3: that was very universal, however, was that almost everyone I

571
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 3: talked to believe that giving was important. They had been

572
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 3: taught someone in their life. A teacher, a parent, a rabbi,

573
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: a priest, someone had taught them along the way that

574
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: life wasn't meant to be one hundred percent selfish, that

575
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 3: there's other people around you, and that there are people

576
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: who have it worse than you do, and that it

577
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 3: is a good thing to get out of your own

578
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 3: needs and your own day to day and put something

579
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 3: aside for those less fortunate than yourself. And so I

580
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 3: found that was very universal, even though the amounts weren't,

581
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 3: And so for most people when they ask me about giving,

582
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 3: I say, the most important thing about giving is just

583
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 3: to give, just to put some money aside. And in fact,

584
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: Daffy Right, the app that we built is very non

585
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 3: judgmental about the amount. Right, you want to put aside

586
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 3: ten dollars a week for charity, great, You want a fundo,

587
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: an account with stock or crypto because that's a smart

588
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 3: tax move, that's also great. Any reason that gets you

589
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: to put money aside for charity we consider a good thing,

590
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 3: and then the giving we find comes naturally. We're often

591
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 3: inspired to give on a regular basis, not just to organizations,

592
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 3: but for things that really touch us. The big problem

593
00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: I think for most people on giving is not the

594
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 3: giving piece. It's the budgeting problem. It's this feeling of like, well,

595
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 3: I don't know how much I can afford to give.

596
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 3: And that's one of the reasons we build Daffy was

597
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 3: just to take that problem off the table for people

598
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 3: and let them be the inspired generous people that we

599
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 3: think most people want to be.

600
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 2: It can be a part of their plan to be generous,

601
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: which at some point in their life, like you said,

602
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 2: they've been taught that that is important. I'm also bummed

603
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: to hear that you'll haven't incorporated like a frownie face

604
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: if you're only gonna set aside five dollars a week,

605
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: you know, and then whoever is setting aside the gentle chiding,

606
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: you know, or like at least a judgment side eye

607
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 2: or something like that.

608
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 3: Come on, No, no, no, what we lean into in

609
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 3: the product is on the inspiration side. Right. And by

610
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 3: the way, this is not that different than retirement savings.

611
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 3: What do you tell people with their four oh one

612
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 3: K is that every year to think about nudging up

613
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 3: that percentage that they put aside for retirement, like maybe

614
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 3: one percent more. We do the same things with giving, right.

615
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 3: We let people set a giving goal and be very intentional. Right,

616
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 3: if if you give a few hundred dollars to charity

617
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 3: every year, maybe to your church or synagogue, maybe your

618
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 3: kid's school, maybe your alma mater, maybe it's a national

619
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 3: cause you support. There's some number that you spent on

620
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 3: giving last year, why not put that number down, make

621
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 3: it a goal, and then we celebrate when you hit

622
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 3: that goal. And of course we celebrate even more when

623
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 3: you exceed that goal. And then guess what next year

624
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 3: we'll probably say Hey, you were so generous last year,

625
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 3: why don't you be even more generous this year? And

626
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 3: so for us, it's less about what you give today

627
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: or now and more getting into that pattern, that habit

628
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 3: of giving, which you can then grow over time.

629
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 2: I love that it's the discipline of doing the action. Adam,

630
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: We've talked about donor advised funds before, but can you

631
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: give like a quick overview of what a donor advice

632
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: fund is and then maybe why it is that folks

633
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 2: should actually utilize that donor advice fund as opposed to say,

634
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: just giving directly to an organization.

635
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 3: Sure, happy to and I get this question a lot

636
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: that The truth is, the donor fund has been around

637
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 3: for almost one hundred years in the US, and yet

638
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 3: most people haven't heard of it because a lot of

639
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: the existing institutions that offer them mainly catered to the wealthy.

640
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 3: So if you don't have a high end accountant or

641
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 3: financial advisor or wealth manager, you may not have heard

642
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 3: of a donor advice fund. But the easiest way to

643
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 3: think of a donor advice fund is that it's another

644
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 3: type of tax advantage to count four one, ks and

645
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 3: iras are for retirement, right Five twenty nine plans are

646
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 3: for college. A donor Advice Fund is a tax advantaged

647
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 3: account for giving to charity, and it has this amazing

648
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 3: feature which is that when you put money into the

649
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 3: Donor Advice Fund, you immediately get that charitable deduction that

650
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: everyone wants off their taxes. It's one of the most

651
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,719
Speaker 3: generous tax deductions out there. And then that money has

652
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 3: invested tax free into a range of different investment options,

653
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 3: so the money grows over time. And then every time

654
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: you're inspired to give, you just put into the service

655
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 3: a recommendation of what charity to give some money too.

656
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 3: It gets approved and it gets sent off to the charity.

657
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 3: So it's really a fantastic financial product for people who

658
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: want to put money aside for charity and who want

659
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: to manage their taxes in terms of when they take

660
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 3: those deductions.

661
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: And there are additional benefits of going through a donor

662
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: of ice fund instead of going directly to a charity.

663
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: You're kept off some of those mailing lists right that

664
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: you might get haunted for your more contribution money dollars

665
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: in the future. What are the other big benefits from

666
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: kind of going through the Donor Advice Fund instead of

667
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: going directly giving to one of your favorite charities.

668
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 3: Well, you brought up one of them, for sure. There's

669
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 3: definitely some benefits of just having a system for giving,

670
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 3: for having it all in one place. You can control

671
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 3: the communications to the nonprofits. A lot of people just

672
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 3: love having all their tax receipts in one place. There's

673
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 3: so many people who told us that one of their

674
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 3: big stress points every year is a tax time finding

675
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 3: their charitable donation receipts, right, and that all goes away

676
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 3: with a donor advice fund. It's all in one place.

677
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 3: But it turns out there actually are a lot of

678
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 3: other benefits to donor advise funds. Like I said, first

679
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 3: of all, when you have the money to put a

680
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: side for charity, isn't necessarily when you've picked a charity

681
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 3: to give that money too. And the wonderful thing about

682
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 3: a donor advice fund is it separates those problems, right.

683
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 3: You can put money aside when that's convenient for you financially,

684
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: and you can give it away when it's convenient or

685
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 3: when you're inspired to give, and so just separating those problems.

686
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 3: But the tax benefits are a big deal. The charitable

687
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 3: deduction is one of the most generous deductions out there,

688
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 3: up to sixty percent of your adjusted gross income. And

689
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 3: so a lot of people have variable income these days.

690
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 3: They have good years and not so good years. Guess

691
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 3: what happens in the good years, you have a higher

692
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 3: tax rate. That's usually the year you want to put

693
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 3: aside more money for charity and take that charitable deduction,

694
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 3: and donor advised funds let you do that. But probably

695
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: the biggest benefit of donor advised funds is when you

696
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 3: are doing things like donating stock or even crypto. These days,

697
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 3: it could be an ETF by the way, it could

698
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 3: be a mutual fund. It's donating investments. Now, donating investments

699
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 3: is incredibly valuable from a tax perspective because when you

700
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 3: donate investments, you save two ways. Not only do you

701
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 3: get the charitable deduction, but you also never pay the

702
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 3: capital gains on that investment. So if you bought Apple

703
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 3: stock at ten dollars and now it's one hundred dollars,

704
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 3: when you donate that stock, you get the full charitable

705
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 3: deduction for the current one hundred dollars value, and you

706
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: never have to pay the ninety dollars in capital gains taxes.

707
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 3: So that's that's just phenomenal. The problem is most nonprofits

708
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 3: can't take stock, they can't take crypto. They don't know

709
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: what to do with an ETF or a mutual fund.

710
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: I mean, in fact, there's over one and a half

711
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 3: million charities in the US and only a few thousand

712
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 3: know how to take investments as donations. And so that's

713
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: the great thing about having a donor advice fund is

714
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 3: you can donate, whether it's cash, stock, ets, mutual funds, crypto,

715
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 3: you name it, get that tax deduction, do the right thing,

716
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 3: and the charities you support, they just get cash and

717
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 3: they don't have to operationally figure out how to deal

718
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 3: with your ETF or mutual fund or whatever investment you're

719
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 3: trying to donate.

720
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: So on that note, and I love that too, as

721
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: donating those appreciated assets, avoiding tax on the one hand,

722
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: and then also reducing your taxable your taxable income and

723
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 1: reducing your tax exposure on the other side. Well, talk

724
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: about being able to grow your money inside of a

725
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: donor advice fund. To me, as someone who gets excited

726
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: about watching their net worth grow and compounding returns, I

727
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: was like, wait a second, I can compound my money

728
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: to give away inside of this essentially tax sheltered account

729
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: inside of a donor advice fund, and so I'll have

730
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: more money to give away over the years. I'm giving

731
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: consistently out of my donor advice fund every single year,

732
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: but I'm also able to set them aside some of

733
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: it for bigger donations in the future. Talk about that,

734
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: like the funds you can choose from investing inside of

735
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: a donor advice fund and why that's so cool.

736
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it really is a wonderful feeling. I'm convinced

737
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 3: some of it is psychological around the fact that giving

738
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 3: away money is actually a hard problem, right, Like we

739
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 3: want to understand the organizations we're giving to, We want

740
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 3: to know what benefits are coming from that money, and

741
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,479
Speaker 3: most people want to make good decisions when they're giving money.

742
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 3: And the great thing about the donor Advice Fund is

743
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 3: it takes away all the anxiety around that problem because

744
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 3: you know the money is invested, and to your point,

745
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 3: it's invested tax free. So we've seen this benefit for

746
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 3: a lot of people in different ways. For some people,

747
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 3: they have a big year, they got a big bonus.

748
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: Maybe they're a real estate agent and they had a

749
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 3: good year in the market. Maybe they're in tech and

750
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 3: they got a stock benefit or something. But there's a

751
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 3: lot of different reasons people end up with a better

752
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 3: year than average. And so the idea of putting money

753
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 3: aside having an invested tax free. You know, if you

754
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 3: give the same amount of money to charity every year,

755
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: you know, if you put aside two, three or five

756
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,919
Speaker 3: years worth of giving at once, well maybe the fund

757
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 3: will grow enough to give you that sixth year or

758
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 3: seventh year for free. And that feels great for people.

759
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 3: We know other people who think the way you you

760
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 3: were just describing, where they say, well, I don't have

761
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 3: a lot of money now, but I'm going to put

762
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 3: this money aside into a fund and build this up

763
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: so that I can give more in the future to

764
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 3: the organizations that I care about, and so that both

765
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 3: of these are wonderful reasons why. Donor advised funds offer

766
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 3: a range of investment options. And I mean, I'll tell

767
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 3: you at Daffy Daffy. Of course, I know the name

768
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 3: is cute. It stands for the donor advised fund for you.

769
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 3: But at DAFFI we offer fourteen different portfolios, everything ranging

770
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 3: from money market funds and bonds. We have portfolios of

771
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 3: Vanguard index funds, we have ESG portfolios. We even have

772
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 3: crypto portfolios for people who are really TechEd forward and

773
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 3: really aggressive. But fundamentally, regardless of what investment option you pick,

774
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 3: the idea that your money is growing tax free and

775
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 3: can be used for good is just really powerful for

776
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 3: a lot of people.

777
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that, and especially I like what you said,

778
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 2: like when there is a mismatch between the funds that

779
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 2: you have on hand to give away and then a

780
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: recipient of those funds, I think that donor advice funds

781
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 2: can really there's a great problem being solved there. I

782
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: guess what I'm trying to do now, though, is I'm

783
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 2: trying to picture this from the standpoint of an organization

784
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 2: that might need funding. Is there an argument that they

785
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: might say, well, hey, don't invest that money, like if

786
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 2: you want to give to us, give us the money now,

787
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 2: because we could use that money now, we could put

788
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 2: it to use. Maybe they're thinking, well, heck, maybe that

789
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 2: person might change their mind and down the road, or

790
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 2: is there I guess the potential argument for the perpetual

791
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: kicking of the can down the road.

792
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: Can you speak to that a little bit. I think

793
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 3: there's always worries and concerns and arguments about this, but

794
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 3: the data has been pretty clear that when people put

795
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 3: money aside for charity, they end up giving that money

796
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 3: to charity. And most of the organizations that we talk to,

797
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 3: their biggest struggle these days is not trying to get

798
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 3: that one large donation. What most charities need is ongoing support.

799
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 3: For most charities, if you gave them one thousand dollars

800
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 3: this year versus giving them one hundred dollars every year

801
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 3: for the next ten years. For a lot of organizations,

802
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 3: that one hundred dollars a year is more valuable because

803
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 3: it's consistent count And what we see with donor advised

804
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,720
Speaker 3: funds is that they really end up being a great

805
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 3: anchor for people who make recurring donations. A lot of

806
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 3: the reasons that people don't love the fundraising process is

807
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 3: they don't love the sales driven attempt to try and

808
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 3: get you to make a donation. Now, it's very transactional

809
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 3: and it feels very intense and can be very sales driven.

810
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 3: The nice thing about having a donor advice fund is

811
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 3: you can be very intentional about your giving. If you

812
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 3: support an organization. You can set up a recurring donation

813
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 3: for them every quarter, every month, every year and know

814
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 3: that that's taken care of. But let's be clear, the

815
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 3: research is very clear on the behavioral piece of this.

816
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 3: People who set a goal, people who pre commit to

817
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 3: their giving the way you do with the donor Advice

818
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 3: fund end up giving thirty two percent more than people

819
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 3: who just reach in their pocket. I mean, you guys

820
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 3: know this. I mean the research is pretty clear on

821
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 3: the retirement side. For example, right, Like, there's a reason

822
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 3: why we don't just fund retirement right out of our pockets, right,

823
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 3: There's a reason why we put a side money out

824
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 3: of each paycheck right into that four to one k

825
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 3: into that retirement account, because it turns out setting that

826
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 3: up on automatic leads us to save more for retirement.

827
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 3: A lot of what DAFFI is based on is the

828
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 3: idea that that same process works for giving too. If

829
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 3: you put a side money regularly for charity, it turns

830
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 3: out you give more, and we think that's good for

831
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 3: the whole ecosystem, including all of those organizations.

832
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: How do you think about which charities get your money,

833
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: which charities get yours? Because when you kind of look

834
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: into the details of specific charities. Not all of them

835
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 1: are created equal, even if they have a similar mission, right,

836
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: so some charities might be more efficient or less efficient.

837
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: Some charities have come under fire, specifically charities run sometimes

838
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: by professional athletes, maybe employing their friends or something like

839
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: that to run the organization. And guess what, forty something

840
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: percent of the money you donate ends up in the

841
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: hands or ends up actually impacting the cause that they

842
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 1: purport to care about. So how do you think about researching,

843
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: vetting charities and which charities are worthy of donating money too?

844
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of anxiety that people have

845
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 3: about that number, about the efficiency of organizations. Like I said,

846
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 3: people take that decision very seriously, right, You work hard

847
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 3: for your money, You work harder to even save some

848
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 3: of that money, So when you're giving it away, you

849
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 3: want it to have the most impact. We hear that

850
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 3: word over and over again from people, where will my

851
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 3: money have the most impact? And so I think one

852
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 3: of the things people do is I do encourage them

853
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 3: to look at those organizations. The hard part is how

854
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 3: do you learn about them? You know what we've done

855
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: in Daffy, but there's a number of services online that

856
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 3: let you look up the operational efficiency, the history. I mean,

857
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 3: one of the great things about the internet is you

858
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 3: can get some of that information about those organizations. But

859
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 3: I think giving has really shifted in the last five years.

860
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 3: I think the pandemic permanently changed the way some people

861
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 3: think about global versus local needs. One of the things

862
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 3: that we've seen a daffy is a real shift to

863
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 3: people caring about local organizations that benefit their community, their neighbors. Right.

864
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 3: You know, you might be very passionate about food insecurity,

865
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: but we've seen in the last five years people caring

866
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 3: very much specifically about who's feeding people in need in

867
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 3: their own area locally. In fact, one of the most

868
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 3: popular features we rolled out during the pandemic was actually

869
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 3: a feature to see which organizations are nearby and whether

870
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 3: they're folks on food insecurity or social justice or the

871
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 3: environment or whatever cause speaks to you. We're seeing a

872
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: lot of emphasis of people wanting to connect with organizations

873
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,720
Speaker 3: not just with dollars, but also in person, right, actually

874
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 3: helping out directly. And when we talk to organizations, they

875
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 3: say the same thing. They definitely need donations, they need

876
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 3: financial support, but they also need people they need volunteers,

877
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 3: they throw events, they need attendees for they need board members,

878
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 3: They need people who are not just focused on a

879
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 3: check size or an amount, but actually on the cause

880
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 3: itself and actually doing something to kind of help. In fact,

881
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 3: we think this is one of the reasons that donor

882
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 3: advise funds are growing in popularity. Is this idea of

883
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 3: not just talking about problems, but doing something to actually

884
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 3: support organizations that are working on problems you care about.

885
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 2: That makes all the sense in the world. It's not

886
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 2: just about throwing money at the problems, but showing up

887
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: in real life. I think it goes a really long way,

888
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: especially folks are the age of our generation.

889
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: Irl baby.

890
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but uh, Adam, we're gonna talk more about donor

891
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 2: advised funds, Daffy in particular too, just how you were

892
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 2: able to get it to be so affordable and so

893
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: much more approachable for folks. We'll get to that and

894
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 2: more right after this.

895
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 3: Our we're back.

896
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: We're still talking with Adam Nash and we're talking about

897
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: giving our money away. And you know what, optimization is

898
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: always nice on that front. Being able to give give

899
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: away more money than you actually socked away is really cool.

900
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: Donor advice funds make that possible, and it feels like

901
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: Daffy is actually leading the movement on that front. So

902
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: you've really upset the apple cart on the donor device front.

903
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: You've lowered costs in a big way for consumers. Why

904
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: was that so important to you to make it kind

905
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: of inexpensive and accessible for people to actually, you know,

906
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 1: start prioritizing that that specific fund.

907
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 3: Well, listen, you know, Daffy was founded with this very

908
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 3: simple mission, this idea that we could build software to

909
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 3: help people be more generous more often. Right, And so

910
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 3: when you're looking at financial products, the donor advice fund

911
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 3: is buying away the best financial product in this area, right,

912
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 3: that ability to put money aside, get that tax deduction,

913
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 3: have it invested tax free, and then you can make

914
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 3: a donation recommendation anytime you want. I mean, this is

915
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 3: a really great type of account, but most people hadn't

916
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 3: heard of it because the industry was focused on the wealthy.

917
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 3: And why were they focused on the wealthy? I hate

918
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 3: to say follow the money, but it turns out that

919
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,359
Speaker 3: most donor advised funds have the same business model as

920
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 3: the investment services they're based on, which is they charge

921
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 3: a percentage of assets. And so when you charge a

922
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 3: percentage of assets, very quickly you start chasing bigger and

923
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,879
Speaker 3: bigger accounts, right. And it turns out billionaires have very

924
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 3: big accounts, right, And so a lot of these services

925
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 3: really ended up focused both on education and access on

926
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 3: those wealthy individuals. I think DAFFI has turned this on

927
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,919
Speaker 3: its head because we have taken a business model that's

928
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,919
Speaker 3: much more akin to what nonprofits use in general, which

929
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 3: is a membership model. Right, It's free to join DAFI.

930
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 3: Most of our members pay three dollars a month. We

931
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 3: have a family plan at five dollars a month, and

932
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 3: we even have a high end account for people who

933
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 3: want to donate unlimited amounts of stock and crypto at

934
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 3: twenty dollars a month. But that idea of just having

935
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 3: a simple, fair, transparent flat rate, I know it sounds obvious,

936
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 3: but in the donor advised fun industry, this is shaking

937
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 3: up everything because in the traditional industry, right, you know,

938
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 3: if you have one hundred thousand dollars account with Fidelity,

939
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 3: if you decide to donate ten thousand dollars of that, well,

940
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 3: Fidelity just lost ten percent of their revenue. Off the account,

941
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 3: and so I think a lot of the problems you

942
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 3: see in the existing industry of warehousing assets and only

943
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 3: pursuing wealthy individuals, I think it's just an outcome of

944
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 3: their business model, and so at DAFFI, we really want

945
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 3: to change that. We decided to build a platform that

946
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,919
Speaker 3: was focused on people, not dollars, and so our goal

947
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 3: is really to reach those sixty million American households who

948
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 3: give to charity every year and say, hey, there's actually

949
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 3: this better account. There's a better way to do that.

950
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 3: You can save money on taxes and have more money

951
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 3: for the organizations you support, and so I think people

952
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 3: are really excited about that. I think the Donor Advice

953
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 3: Fund is going to be the next hot account in

954
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 3: the US, just like five twenty nine plans where iras

955
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 3: were fifty years ago. I think that this is growing rapidly.

956
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 2: And what you're doing with DAFFY, it's not just about

957
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 2: reducing costs and making it more approachable for the masses,

958
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: but you make it fun as well. We touched on

959
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 2: this about the kind of the behavioral finance side of things.

960
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 2: You're talking about how you're celebrating the deposits that folks

961
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: are setting up, you've got badges in confetti. How do

962
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 2: you think about modernizing giving and making it less frustrating,

963
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 2: because it's interesting that some of the same techniques that

964
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 2: you're using, like these are the same psychological I don't

965
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 2: want to say ploys, but that companies put to use

966
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: on us as we're trying to buy stuff or as

967
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 2: they're trying to sell stuff to us. And when you

968
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: think about it, at the end of the day, the

969
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 2: same thing is happening, right if you're looking at your

970
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 2: net worth, your net worth is going down when you

971
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: contribute a whole a whole lot of money or when

972
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 2: you spend a whole lot of money. But like you

973
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: said earlier, there's a great argument that out, no, there's

974
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: a big difference between giving money away and spending it

975
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: on yourself. There's something that's much more noble and altruistic

976
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 2: and fulfilling. Other yeah, fulfilling and others focused. But just

977
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 2: talk about that. I guess just how you've kind of

978
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 2: modernized it and made it to where we're sort of

979
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: capturing some of these psychological elements that make us in

980
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 2: addition to the good that we're providing, also want to

981
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: continue to give our money away.

982
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 3: Well, I love this point, and this is actually a

983
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 3: big part of our product philosophy at Daffy, which is listen,

984
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 3: we have an industry that's made it. They celebrate and

985
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,280
Speaker 3: they give you incentives to spend more, you know, incentives

986
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 3: when you save. I mean, if we can show you

987
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 3: confetti when you buy a stock, we can show you

988
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 3: confetti when you give money to an organization that deserves it.

989
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 3: And so a lot of what we've done in Daffy

990
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 3: is stopped treating it like a boring savings account and

991
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 3: treating it what it is, which is a really great thing.

992
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 3: And frankly, we do a lot in the application to

993
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 3: encourage you, right, Like I mean a lot of us

994
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 3: use Apple Health or these other apps to help you

995
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 3: get your steps in or make sure you're working out

996
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 3: or eating right. I mean, we've done a lot in

997
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 3: the last ten to fifteen years to help people hit

998
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 3: all these different goals they have. Why not apply that

999
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 3: to your goal for giving? Right? Why not incentivize people there.

1000
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 3: So we spend a lot of time making the app

1001
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 3: fun and enjoyable for people. Because we make it great

1002
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 3: for people to give, we think they'll give more but also,

1003
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 3: I will say the other great thing about Daffy in

1004
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 3: the app is that giving is one of the few

1005
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 3: financial tasks that we do which isn't really solitary, right.

1006
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 3: Giving is something we tend to do with other people.

1007
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 3: People care about the organizations they support, but we don't

1008
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 3: talk about giving enough, right do you do? You know

1009
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 3: what organizations your even your friends and family give to,

1010
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 3: not usually most of us never talk about. And the

1011
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 3: great thing about the Daffi experience is that you can

1012
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 3: actually follow other people and learn about organizations. I've learned

1013
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 3: in my local area about a number of organizations purely

1014
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 3: from what my friends and colleagues give to. And so

1015
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 3: what we've done a lot on the app is try

1016
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 3: and bring in the idea of community, this idea that

1017
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 3: you know, you don't know all the great organizations out there,

1018
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 3: you know, we we have the friends that we turn

1019
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 3: to are experts in sports, or experts in money, or

1020
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 3: experts in tech. You know, we actually have friends and

1021
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 3: colleagues who spend a lot of time thinking about where

1022
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 3: to give money or what organizations to support. And we're

1023
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 3: hoping that Daffi becomes a place where people can share

1024
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 3: that information. We actually ask everyone who makes a donation

1025
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 3: on Daffi. It's optional, mind you, but we ask everyone

1026
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 3: who makes a donation on daffy to leave a public comment,

1027
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 3: a note about why they support that organization. I mean,

1028
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 3: this is incredible information. I've been working on the internet

1029
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 3: for more than twenty years, but this content. You know,

1030
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 3: people give to organizations because they had a parent that

1031
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 3: passed away who always supported that organization, Or they had

1032
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 3: someone they cared about who had a health problem, and

1033
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 3: so they support an organization that supports finding a cure

1034
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 3: for that problem. It could be a school that they

1035
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 3: went to when they were younger that their kids attend.

1036
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 3: There's so many reasons people give, but it's kind of

1037
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 3: in the shadows, And so we spend a lot of

1038
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 3: time on Daffy encouraging people to share that information because

1039
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 3: what we see is that it inspires others to give.

1040
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the new ish I Guess campaigns feature that

1041
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: you guys have too, where someone can say, hey, listen,

1042
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: I'll match every dollar that you are willing to donate

1043
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: to my favorite charity, helps other people learn about a

1044
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: cheer alay. Then it also incentivizes getting other people in

1045
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 1: on the process. So I love that it's Matt and

1046
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: I have railed about the downsides of kind of the

1047
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: social media ification of investing apps, because often it's leading

1048
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 1: people astray, but in this case, it's leading people towards

1049
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: the altruistic, the good goodness. Yeah.

1050
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 3: Well, and that's right, because just because a stock is

1051
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 3: a hot stock or in the press or everyone's talking

1052
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 3: about it, if anything, that might indicate that it's not right.

1053
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 3: It's a investment for the long term. But giving is different, Right.

1054
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 3: We look for trust in these organizations. We look for examples.

1055
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 3: But you're right, the campaigns feature has been very, very exciting.

1056
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 3: We just rolled that out a few months ago. But

1057
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 3: that's a great example about how we're innovating in the area.

1058
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: No other donor advice fund does this, But internet campaigns

1059
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 3: have been around for a long time, right, People have

1060
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: run things to raise money for this, that and whatever,

1061
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 3: and donor advise funds have been around for a long time,

1062
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 3: and so we kind of said, hey, what if you

1063
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 3: could run an internet campaign, but instead of just raise money,

1064
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 3: you could use that money you put aside for charity

1065
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,399
Speaker 3: to match everyone's donations. Like we're used to celebrities doing this, right,

1066
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 3: We're used to famous people doing these matching campaigns, but

1067
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 3: what if everyone could do that? And it's really phenomenal.

1068
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 3: We see people raising money for schools, they raise money

1069
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 3: for food banks. One of the reasons we built the

1070
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 3: feature was actually we had a member who came to

1071
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 3: us and they had a family member who passed away

1072
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 3: and they wanted to raise money for an organization that

1073
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 3: that person had spent their life kind of supporting. And

1074
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 3: we thought that was such a wonderful idea. It kind

1075
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 3: of went into kind of our calculus of how could

1076
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 3: we make the donor Advice Fund even better? How could

1077
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 3: we help people who had put aside money for charity

1078
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 3: inspire others to give and so Yeah, the Daffi campaigns

1079
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 3: has been phenomenally popular and we tried to make it

1080
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 3: incredibly easy to do, right, so you can go to Daffy,

1081
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 3: sign up, fund a campaign and get started in a

1082
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 3: matter of minutes. Very cool.

1083
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 2: It harnesses some of that telethon energy from back in

1084
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 2: the day. Adam, we're big fans of Daffy. What it

1085
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,760
Speaker 2: is that y'all are doing, How we can more strategically

1086
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 2: give our money away? And personally, I haven't checked up

1087
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,280
Speaker 2: that that local search feature, so I'm gonna be checking

1088
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 2: that out myself. Folks can learn more about Daffy just

1089
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,439
Speaker 2: by heading over to daffy dot org.

1090
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 3: Is that right, app That's right?

1091
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: Awesome? All right, well, Adam, seriously, thank you so much

1092
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 1: for joining us. We really appreciate it. And uh yeah,

1093
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: I hope talk to you soon.

1094
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was wonderful to be here. Thanks for having me.

1095
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: All right, man, that was a great conversation and it's

1096
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: it's also really heartening to know that even people with

1097
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: one fifty IQ's they still need personal finance education. Like

1098
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: we don't come all you SMARTI is out there right,

1099
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: don't too. Now, it doesn't matter how smart you are,

1100
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 1: Like you don't come out of the womb knowing the stuff.

1101
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: There's some of the basics are just easily understandable, but

1102
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: then how do you practice those in reality? And what

1103
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 1: does it look like? There's a lot of discussion needed

1104
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 1: around those topics, and that's like what we care about

1105
00:54:58,280 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 1: and that's what we try to do every week here

1106
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: on on this show. But what was your big takeaway

1107
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: from our conversation without him?

1108
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 2: My big takeaway it's back when he was when we

1109
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 2: were talking about the personal finance class that he teaches,

1110
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,280
Speaker 2: and oh it was specifically when he was talking about

1111
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 2: his students and getting them to think through the careers

1112
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: and the jobs that they're going to take. Maybe the

1113
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 2: question that you should be asking yourself is what kind

1114
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 2: of life do you want to build for yourself? And

1115
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 2: I think that can not only apply to the work

1116
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 2: that you're doing, but also to the money that you're

1117
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 2: giving away, the types of organizations that you're giving away to,

1118
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 2: but then just the very act, the very discipline of

1119
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 2: giving money away, Like do you want to be a

1120
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 2: generous person? Who do you want to be? What kind

1121
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 2: of life do you want to lead?

1122
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 3: Oh?

1123
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 2: You want to take this type of work? Okay, well

1124
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 2: know that this is what this These are the type

1125
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 2: of hours that being a doctor is going to require

1126
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 2: of you. I don't even know what I can give

1127
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 2: an example, but like I know, like they're on call,

1128
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 2: and you know there's a certain periods of time when you're

1129
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 2: doing the night shift or you're on for twenty hours

1130
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 2: or something like that. It's important to keep through some

1131
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: of these practical matters like it Almos seems a basic

1132
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 2: but that determines what your days look like and therefore

1133
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 2: what your life ultimately ends up looking like. And I

1134
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 2: think that that's a great question to remind ourselves of

1135
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 2: what do you want your life to look.

1136
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: And money's a part of that equation, but it's not

1137
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: the end all be all. There's a lot, Yeah, there's

1138
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: a lot of other things that influence what we want

1139
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 1: our lives to look like, and so yeah, you have

1140
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: to think about the trade offs of those decisions. It

1141
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: makes me think I'm reading a book right now, a

1142
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: biography of Walt Disney and his home life isn't so

1143
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: great because he has chosen to build a life the

1144
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: revolves around his work, and that produced a lot of

1145
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: movies that people really love over a lot of years,

1146
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: but it also made home life tenuous, difficult, and he

1147
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: wasn't there very much.

1148
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:40,879
Speaker 2: So and that's in this case, I hate to say

1149
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 2: that that's fine because it seems like, oh man, it

1150
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 2: seems like that that's something that you want to prioritize

1151
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,439
Speaker 2: over over anything else, right, like a role that only

1152
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 2: you can fulfill as let's say a father.

1153
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 3: Right.

1154
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 2: But it's so important to go into these transactions essentially

1155
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 2: with your eyes wide open to know what it is

1156
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 2: that you're getting into.

1157
00:56:58,600 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 3: I think what about you?

1158
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 1: I think it might be was at the very beginning

1159
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: speaking of actually building a business when we asked him

1160
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: that question, and he said that nothing stands still, and

1161
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: you can't just do the same thing year after year

1162
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: and hope that your business succeeds. You have to iterate.

1163
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 1: That's because the marketplace is ever shifting, consumer tastes are

1164
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 1: ever changing. As we build this podcast, in this business,

1165
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: it just makes me think, Okay, cool, what is it

1166
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: that we need to iterate on? What is it that

1167
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: we need to change? And I think it's good advice

1168
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: for anybody out there who wants to start building something.

1169
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: Your initial concept might be great, and you might even

1170
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: you might even find success immediately, but then how do

1171
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: you build on that success. It's probably not going to

1172
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: look the same in year three as it did in

1173
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: year one. That's true, all right, man, Let's get back

1174
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:41,959
Speaker 1: to the beer. You and I enjoyed a fruit frew Gal,

1175
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: which is a spring season This was donated to the

1176
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: show by Graham and this is also brewed by Graham,

1177
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: a home brew. But yeah, what we were thoughts on about, Yeah,

1178
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: we met Graham out a listener hang down in Atlanta.

1179
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: He was generous enough to bring us this another great

1180
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: beer spot. Yeah, voice indicator, gosh, yeah, beer and pizza

1181
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 1: so yeah. And then so so Graham makes his own.

1182
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: He said, I'll bring you one of my my home brews. Dude,

1183
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: this one was great and not to hate on Graham.

1184
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: I did not have high expectations, just because I typically

1185
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: don't have high expectations for homebrewed beers. This one's really

1186
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: really good. I love a good sayson, especially like man

1187
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: Springtime's come in like it's it's fresh, it's floral, it's gyeasty.

1188
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, I was a big fan of what this

1189
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: was bringing to the table. Graham knocked it out.

1190
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 2: Of the park round. Thanks so much for donating this

1191
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 2: one to the show. We'll make sure to link to

1192
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 2: anything we mentioned today in our conversation with Adam Nash.

1193
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 2: You can head to have the Money dot com find

1194
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 2: the links there, as well as more information on Daffy

1195
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 2: and how it is that you can give your money

1196
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 2: more strategically.

1197
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've even got an article on the site about

1198
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: donor byzones in general, about Daffy specifically. We'll link to

1199
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: those in the show notes too. So Matt, that's gonna

1200
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: do it for this episode until next time. Best friends

1201
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: now I'm best friends out.

1202
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 3: They become nothing. Spool