WEBVTT - #142 Jason Flom with Josh Dubin on James Dailey 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:05.160 It was May fifth, nineteen eighty five. James Daly was 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.280 out bar hopping with his roommates Jack Pearcy and Gail Bailey, 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:10.720 as well as their friend Oza Shaw, when the four 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.600 of them ran into a fourteen year old Shelley Bogio. 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.479 At some point, all of them went back to the 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.600 house that James, Jack and Gail shared, and James Daly 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.439 went to bed while Gail, Jack's pregnant girlfriend was using 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:27.640 the bathroom. Jack snuck out with Shelley Bogio, dropping Oza 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.760 Shaw at a payphone on the way. In the early 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.840 hours of the morning. Jack Pearcey returned alone, at which 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.440 point he woke James Daly and dragged him out for 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:41.600 a few more beers. When they returned, James's pants were wet. 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.840 The following day, Shelley Bogio's body was found choked, stabbed, 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:51.280 and drowned in the Florida Intracoastal Waterway. Jack Pearcy admitted 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:53.880 to his involvement of the crime, but implicated James Daly 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:58.040 as the primary culprit the prosecution and turned promised leniency 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.320 to jailhouse informants who could help them send James Daily 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:06.119 to where he's been since nineteen eighty seven, Florida's infamous 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.520 death row. Jack Pearcy has since claimed sole responsibility for 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.280 Shelly Boggio's death, but has so far avoided actually affirming 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.880 that claim in a court of law. We're going to 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.600 speak with James's attorney, Josh Dubin, a man whose name 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.039 you've heard on this podcast from me many times and 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.160 also from the mouths of several of the people that 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.039 he's helped free, and he'll tell us about the evidence 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.640 that he's uncovered that the state of Florida refuses to hear, 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.520 even though it clears James Daly's name with or without 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:38.000 the word of the one and only killer, Jack Pearcy. 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:52.320 This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flammer. Welcome back to 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:56.559 Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flammer. On today's episode, we're going 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:01.600 to tell the terrifying tale of James Daly, a man 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:05.640 who was wrongfully convicted decades ago in Florida and sentenced 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.560 to death. And with us to tell that story is 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:14.520 his attorney, Josh Dubin. And for listeners of the show, 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:20.120 you'll recognize Josh's name because I reference him often. Josh 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:24.600 is not only a pro bono council of great repute 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:28.720 for the Innocence Project, he is a jury selection expert 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.519 and has been an integral part of many cases that 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:34.639 you've heard on this show, including just a few names, 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:39.880 John Restevo, Clemente, A Gire Herman Atkins, and he is 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.799 a sort of a force of nature. So, without further Ado, 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.160 let me introduce my friend and a personal hero of mine, 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:48.280 Josh duben Well. 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:50.359 That made me blush. I appreciate it. 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.240 So when you're old and gray and sitting in your 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:57.399 rocking chair and someone asks you what case troubles you 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:01.040 the most, I know that this is one case that 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.040 will come to mind. Is that fair statement? 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.560 I mean I feel like it's making me old and 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.119 gray and putting me in a rocking chair already, especially 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:13.320 coming off this latest decision by the court. It's just, yeah, 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.400 it's doing a number on me. But it's really not 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.519 about me. It's about the victim of Shelley Bogio, her 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.640 family's fight for justice and closure, and a clearly innocent 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.440 man that's been sitting on death row for more than 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.799 three decades for a crime that his co defendant has 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.760 admitted he committed on his own. So yeah, it's it's 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:34.200 troubling to say the least. 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.800 Let's go back to nineteen eighty five, fourteen year old 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:42.960 Shelley Bogio was found choked, stabbed over thirty times, and 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:49.160 finally not even dead yet, was drowned in Florida's intracoastal Waterway. Josh, 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.400 can you take us back to the circumstances of this 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:55.840 case and explain how James Daly came to be a suspect. 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.000 Yeah, he was roommates with a person that committed the crime, 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.600 a gentleman by the name of Jack Pearcy. And God, 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:04.600 I say, gentlemen, I want to shove those words back 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:06.640 in my mouth. I mean Jack Pearcy was a guy 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:10.360 that had a very very violent criminal past. He had 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.280 been implicated in a murder for higher scheme where he 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.920 flipped on his co defendants and got himself immunity. He 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:20.760 had been arrested for terroristic threats against the mother of 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.400 his child. He had been in and out of jail, 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:27.080 and James Daily didn't know this about him. James Daly 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.680 had done a tour in Korea, two tours in Vietnam. 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.080 His criminal record was all of one arrest for like 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.960 a one punch bar fight, and he met Jack Pearcy, 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.280 I think playing pool at a bar. You know, he 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.760 didn't really know too much about Jack, but they were 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:47.600 hanging out in Kansas. James Daly, he's having a hard 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:52.480 time after getting back from Vietnam, just getting along and adjusting, 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.400 and you know, his wife had sort of had it 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.840 with him and kicks him out, so he was sort 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.400 of down on his luck where to go. Didn't really 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.599 know too much about Jack Pearcy, but they ended up 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:10.320 living together in Florida with Jack Pearcy's girlfriend, Gail Bailey, 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.440 who was pregnant with Jack Pearcy's child. And then May fifth, 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.680 nineteen eighty five, there's a group of them, Gail Bailey, 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.960 Jack Pearcy, of course, James Daly, and a man by 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.680 the name of Oza Shaw. Osa Shaw was a friend 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.720 of Jack Piercy's from Kansas. He was down there staying 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.960 with them, and they are, you know, going from a 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.640 bar to a bar, and they see Shelley Bogio and 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.600 her sister, and Jack Pearcy knows them. He had been 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.640 to their house before and bought drugs from their father, 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.840 and he had hung out with Shelley Bogio before. He had, 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.800 in fact been told by Shelley Bogio's father, look, you're 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.800 too old to be hanging out with my young daughters, 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.000 and especially Shelley. They end up going to some bars, 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.800 and there's really no dispute about the fact that Shelley 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:05.920 bo Jack Pearcy, Gail Bailey, James, Dally Osa Shaw are 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:10.240 back at the home where Gail, James and Jack live. 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.240 What happens afterwards had been the subject of sort of 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.960 great debate. Who was with Shelley Bogio alone during the 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.159 time frame that the state established at both the trial 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:23.840 of Jack Pearcy and James Daly she was murdered. They 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.520 said it was between one thirty and three thirty am. 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.320 That's never really been challenged, all right, that is the 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.520 window of the time of death. At some point Jack 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:37.839 Pearcy leaves that house with Shelley Bogio. In the past, 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.000 Jack has tried to push back the time frame of 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.000 when this happened because he knows what the state's been 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.920 able to establish in terms of when Shelley Bogio died, 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.600 So he claims I left with Shelley Bogio around eleven thirty. 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.880 I then came back to get James Daly and the 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:57.960 three of us went out together, which makes absolutely no sense. 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.760 He was with this girl that he obviously want to 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:05.360 have sex with. He was flirting with her by all accounts. 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.320 Gail Bailey has even admitted that he had been flirting 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.280 with her earlier in the night that he danced with her. 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.680 Gail Bailey got pissed off, so it makes no sense 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:16.400 that he would want to go back and get James 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.720 Dally get another man involved. But he claims that he 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.440 went back to the house and got James Daly and 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.600 it's during that time that they went to a bar 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:29.320 and that James Daly, Jack Pearcy, and Shelly Bozio drive 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.400 to an area close to the bar, and before he 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.600 knows what's going on, James Daly pounces on top of 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.120 Shelley Bogio when she rebuffs his advances and just starts 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:40.640 stabbing her like a madman. 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.200 So let me get this straight. Jack Piercy tells the 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.280 police a story placing James Daily with he and Shelley 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.280 Bojio between one thirty and three thirty in the morning, 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.760 the timeframe of her death. But what prompted him to 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.440 implicate his friend. Was it just the simplest way to 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:55.960 shift the blame from himself? 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.200 Well, we don't have to speculate, because I asked him 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:03.080 that I went to visit Jack Pearcy back in December 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.280 and January and March. He confessed to me that he 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.520 did this alone. He doesn't know me. I just walk 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.720 into the prison off the street. I tell him I'm 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.640 from the Innocence Project. There's a death warrant sign for 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.920 James Daily. Are you going to do the right thing? 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.600 That was literally almost the extent of my conversation, and 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:26.840 I remember counting to seven hundred and sixty one, just 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.480 sitting there and getting comfortable in the silence and just 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:35.520 letting him think. He you know, got a kind of 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.640 emotional and he said, do you have an affidavit? And I, 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.280 you know, handed him one sheet of paper that basically 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.400 said I did this alone. James Daly had nothing to 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:46.960 do with it. And he signed it and he said, 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.520 just make sure my family's not there. So it was 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:51.839 clear to me that he had not only done this. 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:53.920 I knew that he had done it. He knew that 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:55.280 he had done it, and he just didn't want to 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.720 admit to it in front of his family, and I said, 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:01.079 why did you even implicate James Daily in the first place? 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:04.160 And he looked at me kind of like, do you 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.320 really need to ask me that question, kind of smirk 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:07.960 on his face, and he said, well, who admits to 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:10.720 committing a murder on their own? He said, I was 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:14.160 trying to get the attention off of me. And look, 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.960 he had done this before. He had accepted money to 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.360 murder someone stake the person out, and he got caught. 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.760 He never actually went through with the murderer because there 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:25.840 was too much sort of heat on him, but he 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.319 ended up flipping on his co defendant and getting himself 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.760 out of that crime. He had done this before and 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.640 he figured, I'm going to do it again, and he 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.960 told me that. So we don't have to speculate there this. 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.040 Let's call him what he is, a scumbag. Piercy kept 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.120 slipping through the cracks, and he should, by anybody's definition, 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.440 have been in prison. And had that been the case, 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.199 Shelley Bojio would still be alive and your client would 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.240 not be in prison for this crime because it never 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.640 would have happened. And that's a tragedy on top of 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.439 a tragedy. So, Josh, we know this story that Jack 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.800 Piercy made up, but what about the real story of 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:04.199 what happened that awful night. 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:06.600 You know, they say that the truth always catches up 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.280 to the lie, especially when someone is talking. Jack Pearcy 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.720 has talked over the years. He has confessed to this crime. 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:16.280 He has signed Affidavid's declarations. And what ends up happening 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.360 is he ends up getting pressure applied on him by 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.880 his family and he ends up having to go to 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.520 court to affirm the affidavit or the declaration, and he 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.600 gets cold feet, as family says to him, you know, 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.640 you should not be admitting to this. You're going to 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.200 break our hearts. We've been telling people you're innocent, and 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.520 now we can't do that anymore. Your son will never 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.360 come visit you again, and so forth. And when he 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.920 goes to court, he then just takes the fifth So 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:48.160 here's what really happened, And now Jack Piercy has admitted it, 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.560 although he didn't realize he was admitting it. And I'll 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.640 explain that in a minute. What really happened is that 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:58.080 they go back to the house. Gail Bailly, his pregnant girlfriend, 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.760 is in the bathroom. Ajames Daly is in his room. 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:06.040 Osa Shaw is on the couch and Jack Pearcy uses 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.080 this as an opportunity to leave with Shelley Bogio. Jack 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:13.160 Pearcy says, Shelley, let's get out of here. Osa Shaw says, 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:14.840 I want to go with you. I have to make 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.120 a phone call. And remember we're in the mid eighties, 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.080 so they took him to a payphone. Osa Shaw has 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:27.200 been consistent that he leaves the house with Jack Pearcy, 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.640 Shelley Bogio. It's just the three of them. James Daly 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.120 and Gail Bailey are back at the house, all right, 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:38.400 There is no dispute about that. Jack Pearcy drives Osa 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.360 Shaw with Shelley Bogio to a payphone. Osa Shaw is 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:46.640 calling his wife and a girlfriend of his and he's 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.720 on the phone for ten to fifteen minutes, and Shelley 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:55.360 Bogio and Jack Pearcy get impatient and they start honking 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.200 the horn. Osa Shaw finally says, go ahead and take 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.880 off because the payphone is a short walk away from 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.120 where the house is. So Shelley Bogio and Jack Piercy 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:09.160 leave and they're alone now up until March of this year. 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.760 Jack Piercy has always maintained that, yes, that happened, but 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.600 it was at about eleven thirty at night, because he 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.040 knows what the time of death is, he knows what 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.680 that window is, so he always pushes this event back 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.760 to earlier in the evening. He claims that he went 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.160 back to the house and got James Daily. There's a 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.920 lot of problems with that. Osa Shaw has always been 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:37.800 consistent to the following. At some point in the evening, 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:42.080 Jack Pearcy comes back to the house and he does 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.800 not have Shelly Bogio with him anymore, goes into James 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:50.640 Daly's bedroom, wakes James Daily up, and the two of 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:55.800 them leave together. And this is critical, right because when 0:12:56.120 --> 0:13:00.480 was this? When in time was this? And you know, 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:02.520 we get to the next part of the story, which 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.960 is Jack Pearcy's unwitting admission and the latest turn in 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.080 this case. And he gives me that time. 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:11.360 Yeah, but he's done this to you time and again, 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.240 an admission which he then won't fess up to in 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.160 open court. How many times has he played this game 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:17.520 with you? 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.560 So Jack Piercy, back in nineteen ninety three, back in 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.160 two thousand and seventeen, and then as recently as late 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.280 last year has admitted in sworn statements that he committed 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.120 the crime alone, that James Daly had nothing to do 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.040 with it, and then he always wiggles out of it. 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.080 So after he gives me the affidavit, I have to 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.200 file it in court, and the papers in Tampa back 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:43.640 in December and January pick it up. Piercy has confessed again. 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.240 But I have phone calls between his mother and him 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.000 after the papers pick up that he's confessed now to me. 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:51.760 His mother starts telling him, how could you do this 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.240 to us? We've always maintained that you were innocent. Now 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.840 we can never say that again. Your son will never 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.840 come visit you again. And he comes up with this 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.959 crazy story to his mother on the phone and he says, 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.960 you know, I just did this because they're digging around 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.720 these lawyers for James daily and they'll be able to 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.520 do something that will benefit me one day. How in 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.960 the world could something that we are doing as James 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.160 Daly's lawyers to show that Jack Piercy committed the crime 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:22.720 alone somehow help Jack Pearcy one day. I mean, it's 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.240 just the opposite, but putting that aside for a minute. 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.760 I then go see him in I believe February or 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.320 March of this year, because the court has set a hearing. 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.080 I asked to go and take his deposition, and he 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.960 tells me, I've changed my mind. I'm no longer going 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.320 to say I did this alone. You know, I guess 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.320 not out of the realm of possibility that he would 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:51.360 try to wiggle out again. So I am there deposing him. Okay, 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.080 with me, There's a prosecutor from the state of Florida 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.120 sitting there, and it's myself and an attorney from Millbank 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.680 who is working on the case with me, Scott Edelman, 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:05.000 and I'm asking him questions, all within the context of 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.680 him now recanting and saying James Daily committed the crime. 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.320 I was just there and I say to him, when 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.800 was it that you were with Shelley Bogio alone? He 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.280 says all about eleven thirty at night, because remember he 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:22.400 knows the time frame. So I said to him, well, 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.760 was it before or after you dropped Oza Shaw off 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:29.720 of that phone booth? He says, without a doubt, I 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:34.120 went with Shelley Bogio alone to have drinks after I 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.160 dropped Oza Shaw at the phone booth. The following is 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.880 not known to Jack Pearcy. I have phone records from 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.800 that phone booth call. I have the people that he 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:50.200 called their phone records showing that the calls happened at 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.200 one point fifteen in the morning, and that the wife 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.040 and the girlfriend claim, as Osa Shaw does, that the 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.360 calls took forty five minutes and hour. So now we're 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.320 at two point fifteen in the morning, that it takes 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.800 fifteen minutes to walk back to the house, that Oza 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.160 Shaw gets back to the house, and Jack Pearcy isn't 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.920 back yet, that he sits on the couch for forty 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.640 five minutes an hour with Gail Bailly, and Gail Bailey 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:25.160 is distraught that Jack Pearcy left with Shelley Boggio. Hours 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:29.840 pass by Oza Shaw's estimation. It's now three point thirty 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.600 three forty five in the morning. That is when Jack 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:38.440 Pearcy gets back alone. That is the truth catching up 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:43.160 to the lie. That is the very first time Jack 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:48.880 Pearcy had ever under oath put himself square in the 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.200 timeframe that this murder is committed between one thirty and 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.880 three point thirty alone with the victim. And this should 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.520 have been earth shattering to the courts. It's certainly was 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:04.720 earth shattering to me. And as you know, I'm speaking 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:08.120 these words, just two days ago, you know, got an 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.920 order from the court denying my motion to have a 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.440 cumulative hearing of all of the overwhelming evidence of James 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.359 Dally's innocence because they now claim that the deposition that 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.360 I took was a quote discovery deposition and it's not admissible, 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:28.560 and it is just you know, if I had any 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.359 tears left in me, I would cry them. You know, 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.840 it's just beyond frustrating. Doesn't do it justice. I mean, 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.600 the fact that Jack Piercy has been able to wiggle 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.879 out of these confessions and that the criminal justice system 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.399 in Florida just continues to look the other way and 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:49.800 allow it to happen because of these ridiculous legal technicalities. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.320 I don't even think that the judge respectfully was right 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.080 about it is just mind mending. 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.119 So Jack Pearcy finally gave an admission that he couldn't 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.800 wiggle out of. However, the court then won't allow it 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:14.280 to be admitted as evidence, which is just fucking insane. 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.520 And of course doesn't make any of it less true. 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.600 But I still have a few questions about the night 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.440 of the crime. What happened when Piercy came back to 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:25.480 the house to get James Daly out of bed, and 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.040 how did his pants get wet? 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.600 So it can be no earlier than three p forty 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:31.800 five in the morning, and Jack Pearcy gets home and 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:36.560 he's by himself, and Oza Shaw is rock solid about this. 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.960 He has never wavered on this in all the years 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.359 he's given testimony. In this case. Jack Pearcy goes into 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:47.560 James Daly's room, wakes him up, and then they leave together. Now, look, 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.560 I don't know whether that was because Jack Pearcy was 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:55.000 freaked out, he was looking for an alibi. Who knows 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:56.879 why he did what he did next. 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.560 He probably didn't want to face the wrath of his 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.200 girlfriend who he had just treated so horribly, right, I mean, 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.800 he left her pregnant in the house while he went 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.760 out to try to have sex with this underage girl. 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.080 I can tell you that he told me that he 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.359 was freaked out and then he just wanted to talk 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.480 and have some beers. He takes James Daly to a 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:23.320 different location than the murder occurred. They have beers and 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.760 smoke a joint and he says, look, I need you 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.199 to move out. We need your room because the baby 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:34.359 is coming soon. Remember Gail Bailey is pregnant. And what 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.680 James Daly has said, and what Jack Piercy in fact 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.280 told me, is they pop the trunk on the car 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.800 to sit on the back bumper, and that there's a 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.159 frisbee in the back seat and they're parked on the waterway, 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:49.920 and that James daily whips it up in the air. 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.439 That was like his thing. He would always like fling 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:54.400 the frisbee up in the air and try to boomerang 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:56.800 it back to himself. And that at some point it 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.640 went into like the shallow water, and that James Dilly 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:03.080 waited out there and got it, so he had wet 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:07.160 pants when they both got back. Oza Shaw and Gail 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:11.480 Bailey see them come home and Piercy is dry and 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:16.320 James Daly has wet pants, and the police say, aha, 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.120 he must have been the one that murdered Shelley Bogio. 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.560 And look, Jack Pearcy has told me that what happened 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.280 with the frisbee happened, And you know, to any of 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.800 the listeners that are thinking, well that sounds odd, Well, 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.560 you know what it might. But I can tell you 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.880 that in every single case that I have worked on 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:40.240 where somebody is innocent, they always live with what can 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.280 be an inconvenient fact. And I'm going to leave you 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:49.080 with this thought. When Jack Pearcy implicates him, James Daly 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.320 is living under his own name. He has moved to 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:56.080 California at this point, it's six months later. He started 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:59.960 a kitchen cabinet company with a friend and the police 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.240 ask him six months later, we heard from Oza Shaw 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.600 and Gail Bailey that you had wet pants that night. 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.800 You know, he can quickly compute, well, Gail Bailey is 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.320 the mother of Jack Pearcy's child. At this point, Osa 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.280 Shaw is an old friend of Jack Piercy's. They're both 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:18.680 going to cover for Jack Pearcy. He could have quickly 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:23.320 said bullshit, my pants were dry, But he lives with 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:26.639 the inconvenient fact because he's innocent, and he says, yeah, 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:29.720 they were wet then, and here's what happened. That is 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.480 a hallmark of innocence, a hallmark of innocence. He lives 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:35.439 with that because he thinks that the police are just 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:37.919 going to believe him and actually investigate this. 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:40.240 Right, It's not like they could have gone back in 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.080 time and found some wet stain on something. It would 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.639 have been the easiest thing for him to say that, 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:48.720 you're absolutely right. That being said, Piercy goes to trial. 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:50.880 It sounds like he didn't have a snowballs chance and hell, 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:52.840 and sure enough he's convicted. 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:56.560 And the state seeks the death penalty against Jack Pearcy 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:57.440 and they don't get it. 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.840 He gets life understanding and correct me if I'm wrong, 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:06.199 is that there's a line between the fact that the 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.200 state failed to get the death penalty that they sought 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:15.199 against Piercy, so they wanted to execute somebody for this 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:20.080 awful crime, and that led them to do a number 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.600 of terrible, terrible things. 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.720 What happens next is the prosecutor send police in to 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.080 the Penelas County Jail where James Daly is being held 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:34.280 pre trial to start building a better case against James Daily. 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:36.680 And they don't have anything to go on with James Daily. 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:43.119 Accept these wet pants, and it is Operation Frame James Daily. 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:46.600 And if you want more about exactly what happened, we 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:50.359 could never cover in this timeframe. Pamela Colov wrote an 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:55.200 amazing investigative piece about jailhouse snitches, in particularly the one 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:57.720 in this case, in pro publica in the New York Times. 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:01.280 But they start pulling people off the pod where James 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:04.520