1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,200
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

4
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,960
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

5
00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,920
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

6
00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:28,080
Speaker 2: my name is Nolan.

7
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,760
Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

8
00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,800
Speaker 3: super producer Alexis code named Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly,

9
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 3: you are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

10
00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,960
Speaker 3: want you to know. We are recording this on the

11
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,440
Speaker 3: evening of July third. As humans reckon the calendar here

12
00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,640
Speaker 3: in the United States, there's a birthday coming up, several

13
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,440
Speaker 3: birthdays statistically, if you're listening to this, it might be

14
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 3: your birthday. So happy birthday. We are going to do

15
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,240
Speaker 3: a thing and we like to do here in the States,

16
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,800
Speaker 3: which is celebrate July fourth Independence Day. A lot of

17
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 3: other countries have their own independence days, but this would

18
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:10,399
Speaker 3: all us.

19
00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,319
Speaker 4: Baby. I don't know if this is the case in

20
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,160
Speaker 4: cities other than Atlanta, but have you guys noticed that

21
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,440
Speaker 4: people start shooting off fireworks like days before the fourth

22
00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:23,680
Speaker 4: of July. Yeah, with that, it's a little it's aggressive.

23
00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,960
Speaker 3: It's a some cost fallacy, I would say, because you

24
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:27,960
Speaker 3: buy the fireworks and then you kind of want to

25
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,560
Speaker 3: test them, and then fireworks are objectively cool.

26
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,800
Speaker 2: And a deal you got like double the fireworks you

27
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,320
Speaker 2: thought you were gonna get. What are you gonna do

28
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:36,319
Speaker 2: with all the fireworks?

29
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:36,920
Speaker 4: I love that.

30
00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,720
Speaker 3: I told you guys, I do have a shady uncle

31
00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,080
Speaker 3: whose name is literally Uncle Sam and no one stop

32
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,520
Speaker 3: it true story. No one in my family knows what

33
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,840
Speaker 3: he actually does, and he won't tell us. But he

34
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,400
Speaker 3: did spend some time in China working in the fireworks industry.

35
00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,640
Speaker 4: Hmm okay, yeah, I thought his name might be Wacky Wayne.

36
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,960
Speaker 4: You know those fireworks stores around there was s.

37
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 2: Wacky crazy Steves Fireworkingum.

38
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 3: I swear I saw many years ago one on the

39
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,080
Speaker 3: Gulf Coast called like forefinger Billies or something. That's because

40
00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,079
Speaker 3: he blew off his fingers.

41
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,840
Speaker 4: It can happen. Those what are the black cats, the

42
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,640
Speaker 4: ones that are like no eighties, I think, is the

43
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,960
Speaker 4: ones that can actually literally explode your flesh.

44
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,160
Speaker 3: Well, props to you, billy, if you're still around, because

45
00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,520
Speaker 3: he leaned into it, you know what I mean. Yeah,

46
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 3: he made some real.

47
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,040
Speaker 4: Lean you'll go blind too.

48
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,440
Speaker 2: Over here, they've got cautionary Kyle's fireworks stands.

49
00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:40,440
Speaker 3: The cautionary made that.

50
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,680
Speaker 2: It's just sparklers. They're really tiny, those little snakes like

51
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,600
Speaker 2: on the South Park A.

52
00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,520
Speaker 3: Sparklers are like the CBD of fireworks. Let's be honest.

53
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,119
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, they're fun. CBD is fun, but it's

54
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,120
Speaker 3: not the same thing.

55
00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,800
Speaker 4: Does does it work? Sparklers at least sparkle that's true.

56
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,080
Speaker 3: We're also going to learn about We're going to have

57
00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,359
Speaker 3: an update on a trial that we've been following. We're

58
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 3: going to have and a discussion about artificial intelligence. I

59
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,720
Speaker 3: think we're all excited for. We're going to learn more

60
00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,400
Speaker 3: about mr NA because we did mention it for a

61
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 3: reason in a previous episode. But before we do any

62
00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,120
Speaker 3: of that, we're going to pause for a second and

63
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:28,120
Speaker 3: get to our our kind of breaking story for this evening,

64
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,200
Speaker 3: and we're back. We've talked about it before and as

65
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,000
Speaker 3: we get into this doc apologies to you. When we

66
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:43,840
Speaker 3: were talking about this.

67
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,400
Speaker 4: Off air, our.

68
00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,840
Speaker 3: Log suffering that's the word, just shook her head and

69
00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,560
Speaker 3: said I had managed to forget about this for just

70
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:57,560
Speaker 3: a couple of minutes.

71
00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 4: I believe the expression was I've managed to forget that

72
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,880
Speaker 4: we live in hell.

73
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,640
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, And this is in reference to

74
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,680
Speaker 3: something called the Supreme Court of the United States, long

75
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:17,240
Speaker 3: a controversial institution. In the most recent sessions of the

76
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:23,440
Speaker 3: Supreme Court, they made rulings that seem, depending on your perspective,

77
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,480
Speaker 3: to be either quite reasonable or quite problematic.

78
00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:29,919
Speaker 4: Now, is there no middle ground?

79
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,080
Speaker 2: Ben Well?

80
00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, I don't think there's anybody who goes that's fine,

81
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,080
Speaker 3: that's good. Yeah, amidst this is the thing. Okay, So

82
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,160
Speaker 3: we've talked about it to many of our friends who

83
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,240
Speaker 3: are not in the US. We know it sounds weird.

84
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:51,000
Speaker 3: Ostensibly a democracy the United States, the laws of the

85
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:56,080
Speaker 3: land are ultimately decided or adjudicated by nine kind of

86
00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,279
Speaker 3: ring raiths. They are not elected officials as and the

87
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,560
Speaker 3: public doesn't get to vote for them. They're confirmed by Congress.

88
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,960
Speaker 3: They have tremendous legal power, and they are meant to

89
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,600
Speaker 3: be a check on the power of the other two

90
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:17,080
Speaker 3: branches of government, the executive and the legislative. It is

91
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,479
Speaker 3: weird that they're never up for election, kind of like

92
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,800
Speaker 3: the pope. They have the job for as long as

93
00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 3: they want.

94
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,200
Speaker 4: And I guess we're in sort of a weird situation

95
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:31,080
Speaker 4: because you know, one along sitting justice passed away, so

96
00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,000
Speaker 4: the previous president was able to appoint way more than

97
00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,520
Speaker 4: usually get appointed during a sitting president's term.

98
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that is one of the big, big

99
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:48,240
Speaker 3: powers of the executive branch in this respect. Now, we

100
00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:53,160
Speaker 3: know that talking about anything that touches on the domestic

101
00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,719
Speaker 3: political sphere can be divisive, especially in these times. It

102
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,560
Speaker 3: can be a sensitive subject. However, we're going to do

103
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 3: at the top of this Evening's Strange News is explain

104
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:10,240
Speaker 3: how this is a conspiracy, right, Please check out our

105
00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,719
Speaker 3: earlier episodes on things like Project twenty twenty five. And

106
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,240
Speaker 3: please understand that we're talking about this. We are not

107
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,640
Speaker 3: I think it's fair to say that we are not

108
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,359
Speaker 3: championing some polemic agenda. We're not up for election, you

109
00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,000
Speaker 3: know what I mean. We don't even have a webby,

110
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,479
Speaker 3: so we're not the folks in charge of this. But

111
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:38,559
Speaker 3: we are going to show you objectively why you should

112
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,000
Speaker 3: be concerned about this. If you live in the United States, absolutely,

113
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,960
Speaker 3: But guess what if you don't live in the United States,

114
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,000
Speaker 3: this stuff is going to reach out and touch you too.

115
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,400
Speaker 3: How would you guys? As we're getting into it. How

116
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:56,760
Speaker 3: would you guys describe your reactions to recent Supreme Court

117
00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:01,159
Speaker 3: rulings like, I mean, obviously the when we'll get to

118
00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,919
Speaker 3: in a second, but let's start with. Let's start with

119
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:10,680
Speaker 3: rolling back federal regulations or how those are decided. Not good, No,

120
00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:11,560
Speaker 3: feel good about it?

121
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:12,160
Speaker 4: Not great?

122
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 2: Is this the Chevron decision?

123
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:19,520
Speaker 3: Yes, this is the Chevron decision, the Chevron decision with

124
00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,320
Speaker 3: scotas you could already tell by the name it is.

125
00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:28,120
Speaker 3: It is about companies and what is about what a

126
00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 3: company of private entity functioning in the United States must

127
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:37,520
Speaker 3: do to remain legal, and there was What they did

128
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,520
Speaker 3: is back in nineteen eighty four there was a landmark

129
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:47,600
Speaker 3: decision called Chevron versus Natural Resources Defense Council, and they

130
00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:52,520
Speaker 3: found against Chevron. This gave rise to what we call

131
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,880
Speaker 3: the Chevron doctrine. Without getting two into the weeds, you

132
00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,240
Speaker 3: can read a great piece on this by Amy Howe

133
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,000
Speaker 3: the Scots Blog. What we need to know about this

134
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,720
Speaker 3: is the Chevron doctrine, which again has stood for decades,

135
00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:11,680
Speaker 3: says that if Congress has not directly addressed a specific

136
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,560
Speaker 3: question at a center of a dispute, then a court

137
00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:22,040
Speaker 3: has to defer to the agency in charge. So, for example,

138
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:28,240
Speaker 3: just keeping it really hypothetical here, if the FDA, the

139
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,680
Speaker 3: Food and Drug Administration, had an interpretation of something about

140
00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,040
Speaker 3: food safety or you know, how much rat feces should

141
00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,559
Speaker 3: be in raisin brand, the answer is to scoops. If

142
00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,640
Speaker 3: you know, they have these laws right, like to what

143
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:50,680
Speaker 3: degree of what thresholds are there for contamination such that

144
00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,000
Speaker 3: the safety of the public is not endangered under the

145
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:59,040
Speaker 3: Chevron doctrine, the courts would have to defer to the

146
00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:03,560
Speaker 3: FDA's decision about this, which kind of makes sense because

147
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,360
Speaker 3: they're the people whose job it is to know these things.

148
00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 4: And we know there are problems with those agencies as

149
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 4: well in terms of the revolving door of folks moving

150
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,120
Speaker 4: from the industries that are regulated by these agencies to

151
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,319
Speaker 4: the agencies themselves. So you know, in the best of situations,

152
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,840
Speaker 4: there's already conflicts of interest and this just I mean nukes,

153
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:32,080
Speaker 4: the whole any semblance of like expertise being you know,

154
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 4: utilized by these agencies to your point bend, which is

155
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:36,480
Speaker 4: their job to do.

156
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:37,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

157
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:38,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

158
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,600
Speaker 3: A better example would probably be the EPA, the Environmental

159
00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,480
Speaker 3: Protection Agency, had an interpretation of the Clean Air Act

160
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:53,480
Speaker 3: right regarding how emissions, fossil fuel emissions in particular, should

161
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:58,480
Speaker 3: be regulated. When you roll back stuff like the Chevron doctrine,

162
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,959
Speaker 3: it means that there's going to be legal chaos because

163
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,920
Speaker 3: we no longer have an order of operations for decision making. Now,

164
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,120
Speaker 3: this sounds really boring until your water turns brown, right,

165
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 3: This sounds stupid and academic, until you realize that you

166
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,400
Speaker 3: can find fingers in cans of chili. Right. This opens

167
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,760
Speaker 3: the door to return to the days of Upton Sinclair's

168
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:26,400
Speaker 3: the jungle.

169
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:27,320
Speaker 1: It is.

170
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,960
Speaker 3: It is a dangerous and it should be an a

171
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,200
Speaker 3: political concern. It doesn't matter who you vote for. You

172
00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,240
Speaker 3: need stuff at a certain level of cleanliness.

173
00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,240
Speaker 4: But it benefits the polluters. It benefits the companies who

174
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:46,600
Speaker 4: are responsible for these emissions or potentially dangerous drugs or

175
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,320
Speaker 4: food whatever. It just opens it up for them to

176
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,160
Speaker 4: f arout and find out. Kind of I'm sorry, Matt,

177
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:52,720
Speaker 4: what were you saying?

178
00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,200
Speaker 2: It's okay. I just had to say I've read through

179
00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 2: a lot of the writing on this guys, and I'm

180
00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,400
Speaker 2: still a bit confused, and I'm trying to put it

181
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,400
Speaker 2: in like more simple terms. I think you've kind of

182
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,520
Speaker 2: done it already, been like saying that before if there

183
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,360
Speaker 2: was a court case with a company versus the federal government,

184
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,440
Speaker 2: the law, whatever it is, if it's vaguely written, you

185
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,679
Speaker 2: default to whatever the federal regulating body says, like what

186
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:20,480
Speaker 2: their rules are.

187
00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,960
Speaker 3: Basically it's kind of allowing them to make jurisprudence. Yeah.

188
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the entity that's trying to either protect the environment

189
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,600
Speaker 2: or the consumer or whatever it is. The federal entity

190
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:34,280
Speaker 2: that's doing some kind of regulation on corporations, on private entities,

191
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,840
Speaker 2: you go with whatever that regulator says. But now it's

192
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,720
Speaker 2: saying that's it's just every court gets to make its

193
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 2: own decision about each one of those things.

194
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,480
Speaker 3: Now yeah, now it's saying Now it's saying, remember nineteen

195
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:51,559
Speaker 3: eighty four psych because Scotus is famously behind on their

196
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,240
Speaker 3: street slang, so they still say stuff like cawabunga and psych.

197
00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:02,360
Speaker 3: They did roll. Yes, Toul, answer is your understanding is

198
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,480
Speaker 3: astute here. Now we are not ourselves legal experts. We

199
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 3: are incredibly fortunate to have many, many of our fellow

200
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,840
Speaker 3: listeners in the crowd who are legal experts, and we

201
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,000
Speaker 3: would love to hear some explanations about this now. The

202
00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,160
Speaker 3: current well, the thing is for the entirety of its history,

203
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:28,320
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court has always been fertile soil for corruption

204
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,719
Speaker 3: and influence. And these people do try to do the

205
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,560
Speaker 3: right things, and they've made they've made laws that have

206
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,040
Speaker 3: made the world and the United States a better place objectively,

207
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,920
Speaker 3: but they are continually accused of political machinations, especially because

208
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,560
Speaker 3: they recently ruled, and I was complaining about this and

209
00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:52,920
Speaker 3: previous recording, they recently ruled that ethics, the ethical regulations

210
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:59,880
Speaker 3: of the justices themselves, should be overseen by the justices themselves. Thanks,

211
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 3: I know, and I can't get out of elite fee

212
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 3: at the library. This is ridiculous question.

213
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,320
Speaker 4: Before we maybe move on. We could probably talk about

214
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,559
Speaker 4: this for the whole episode. These decisions. But it's not

215
00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,800
Speaker 4: to say that there will always be a legal kerfuffle

216
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 4: around simple things. But does it necessarily also mean that

217
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 4: anyone could question something or file a suit or create

218
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 4: a legal kerfuffle and therefore throw everything into disarray, Like

219
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,480
Speaker 4: if there are bad actors and there are like maybe

220
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 4: lobbyists or whomever, lawyers on the behalf of these corporations,

221
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,599
Speaker 4: they could challenge these laws and then it would it

222
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,160
Speaker 4: could potentially cause chaos or have them changed without the

223
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,600
Speaker 4: oversight of a supposedly benevolent regulatory body.

224
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,720
Speaker 3: That's yeah, no one knows that's the issue.

225
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,760
Speaker 4: But isn't that is that potentially on the table. I mean,

226
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,200
Speaker 4: that seems like a thing that could now happen.

227
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,760
Speaker 2: Doesn't it endanger some of these federal agencies because it

228
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,680
Speaker 2: may end up costing them too much money in the

229
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 2: short too long term to fight all of the legal

230
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,280
Speaker 2: battles that will you know, will be presented to them.

231
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,840
Speaker 2: Because there there are constant legal battles. If we think

232
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,080
Speaker 2: about the court cases where it's oh, well, let's just

233
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,320
Speaker 2: use Chevron again, Chevron BP whoever gas company versus the

234
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,040
Speaker 2: federal government because they're trying to settle some dispute about

235
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,280
Speaker 2: regulations that are being imposed on them by the federal government.

236
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,320
Speaker 2: Right yeah, So then those you know, the organization like

237
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,400
Speaker 2: the EPA or whatever it is, has to go to

238
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,200
Speaker 2: court and eat all those.

239
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,560
Speaker 3: Costs right every time, by thousand cuts. That's the legal

240
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,760
Speaker 3: strategy of a lot of these powerful entities. And the

241
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,440
Speaker 3: it was, like I was saying on Twitter earlier, I

242
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,680
Speaker 3: feel like every law student should get a full refund

243
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,720
Speaker 3: on their tuition because the stuff they were taught may

244
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 3: not apply right at this point.

245
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,560
Speaker 4: But isn't also Project twenty twenty five kind of all

246
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,560
Speaker 4: about eroding these agencies and give them. This further contributes

247
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 4: to the overall, like big picture erosion of the powers

248
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,800
Speaker 4: of these agencies. And to Matt's point, potentially you know,

249
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,880
Speaker 4: eating them out of house at home, the point where

250
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,560
Speaker 4: they can't even afford you exist anymore.

251
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,040
Speaker 3: Let me put it this way, in the most simple terms,

252
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,520
Speaker 3: the most simple a political terms. Corruption is a team sport, right.

253
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,920
Speaker 3: They don't get a lot of successful lone wolves, or

254
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,560
Speaker 3: if you do, they don't last for as long as

255
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,920
Speaker 3: they could. And this brings us to the big fish,

256
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,720
Speaker 3: the big issue that people have, and if you are American,

257
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,720
Speaker 3: you should have an issue with this too. Recently, in

258
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,960
Speaker 3: a just a few days ago, in a mic drop moment,

259
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court finally issued their opinion on a case

260
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,200
Speaker 3: called Trump versus the United States. That's right, folks, the

261
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,800
Speaker 3: name of the case is officially a former president versus

262
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,480
Speaker 3: the country that he served as commander in chief of

263
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,760
Speaker 3: for a while. And what they found in this decision,

264
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,440
Speaker 3: which was divided clearly along ideological lines of the court,

265
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 3: what they found was that in their opinion, any US president,

266
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 3: just like any Russian president, will have broad immunity from

267
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,880
Speaker 3: criminal prosecution, a license to commit crimes, so long as

268
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,600
Speaker 3: they have they put it use the official powers of

269
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,240
Speaker 3: their office to do so. So the Overton window has shifted.

270
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 3: Now the question is not was insert here a crime?

271
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,560
Speaker 3: The question is was it official? You know what I mean?

272
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 4: Doesn't this mean that Nixon was not a crook?

273
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,800
Speaker 3: It says Watergate, you know, would have been totally chill.

274
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:43,680
Speaker 4: This is wrong.

275
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,280
Speaker 2: It's it's so weird, it's it's it is weird to

276
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,000
Speaker 2: me because it does seem to draw a sharp line

277
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 2: between those things that are done as a private action versus,

278
00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,239
Speaker 2: as you said, an official action, right, Right, So it

279
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,680
Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily mean on the surface that the president has

280
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,120
Speaker 2: complete immunity, but it does mean if the president does

281
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 2: something that is, let's say illegal, it could be argued

282
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,760
Speaker 2: by that president and everybody around that president that whatever

283
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 2: the action was was taken as an official due right.

284
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,760
Speaker 4: What's the criteria for that though? Is it laid out

285
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 4: or is it pretty vague?

286
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,399
Speaker 3: No? No, it's pretty vague. Yeah, because if you're if

287
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 3: you're trying to pull a grift you know, the thing

288
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,000
Speaker 3: about lying to a large group of people is you

289
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,600
Speaker 3: got to swing big. You know, you want to minimize specifics,

290
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,520
Speaker 3: you want to access emotion. Right, So a divided, tribalized

291
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,480
Speaker 3: or dare I even say near balkanized public like the

292
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:51,359
Speaker 3: United States, then they're going to be strongly pushed toward

293
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,720
Speaker 3: voting like the way you would root for a football team, right,

294
00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 3: instead of looking objectively at the day here And make

295
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,920
Speaker 3: no mistake, we talked about this in Project twenty twenty five.

296
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:09,840
Speaker 3: It's too much power. It's Unamerican, and it's very difficult

297
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:15,960
Speaker 3: to imagine any president that would not in practice take

298
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,320
Speaker 3: advantage of this. I want to go to the specific

299
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 3: descent here from I was going to say, yeah, Justice

300
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,520
Speaker 3: Kintaji Brown Jackson wrote a quote that really stood out,

301
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,240
Speaker 3: I think to a lot of us and said, quote,

302
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,920
Speaker 3: from this day forward, presidents of tomorrow will be free

303
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,960
Speaker 3: to exercise the commander in chief powers, the foreign affairs powers,

304
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,120
Speaker 3: and all the vast law enforcement powers. And Trine did

305
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,720
Speaker 3: Article two, however, they please including new ways that Congress

306
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 3: has deemed criminal and that have potentially grave consequences for

307
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:54,399
Speaker 3: the rights and liberties of Americans. The Justice here is

308
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:59,240
Speaker 3: not being hyperbolic. It is crazy that our Project twenty

309
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,360
Speaker 3: twenty five episode came out and then this followed almost

310
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,400
Speaker 3: directly on the heels of it. I'm not saying they

311
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 3: listen to our show, you know, if you if you

312
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,240
Speaker 3: guys do listen, though, you know, buy us off. We're corrupted.

313
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:13,359
Speaker 3: We want to be on the team.

314
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 4: Give us a webbie, maybe just chill. And then another

315
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 4: descending opinion from Sonya Soda Mayor said an excerpt, Today's

316
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 4: decision to grant former presidents criminal immunity reshapes the institution

317
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 4: of the presidency, which is kind of inarguably.

318
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 3: And also with fear of debiocracy, with fearful doing. I dissent.

319
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is my opinion, guys. It has nothing to

320
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:45,640
Speaker 2: do with potentially next former president Donald Trump or Joe

321
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 2: Biden or anyone in the next what twelve years. It's

322
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,679
Speaker 2: coming down the road. I can we quickly read just

323
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,719
Speaker 2: a couple of quotes, because this is absolutely it's scary

324
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 2: when you see it.

325
00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's a big point I want to end with.

326
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, just some of the majority opinion written by Justice Roberts.

327
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 3: Here, right, that's Chief Justice John Roberts.

328
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 2: Something about courts may not inquire into the president's motives. Like,

329
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 2: that's scary to me.

330
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, quote in dividing official from unofficial conduct, courts may

331
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 3: not inquire into the president's motives, which is insane.

332
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it is up to the lower courts to

333
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 4: decide what constitutes a presidential act. So isn't that sort

334
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 4: of like a I don't know, that seems like what's

335
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,440
Speaker 4: the word? I'm looking for a contradiction of terms where

336
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 4: it's up to them to decide what is a presidential act.

337
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 4: But they also can't take into account whether it was

338
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 4: self serving and not in the service of the office,

339
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 4: or of the people or of the country.

340
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 3: And here's the issue. Also, it goes further to say,

341
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:54,879
Speaker 3: people who do not support this idea of a president

342
00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 3: above the law, they would naturally wonder, well, surely it'll,

343
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 3: like you're saying, go to the lower courts. Surely prosecution

344
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 3: and appeals can wend their way through the glacial legal system.

345
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 4: Doubtful.

346
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 3: Well, they cut it off at the pass. You could

347
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:19,439
Speaker 3: say that they already hamstrung possible prosecution. Roberts continues in

348
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 3: his statement, and he says a prosecutor cannot quote admit

349
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 3: testimony or private records of the president or his advisors

350
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 3: in quote in figuring out if there is an official act,

351
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 3: there is a crime. That means the president can be

352
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 3: whomever they may be, can be prosecuted for a unofficial act,

353
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 3: but the prosecutors cannot prove whether this president committed a

354
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 3: crime using evidence from the president's official actions. It is

355
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 3: so there's an amami to it. I can't help but

356
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 3: admire the cognitive parkour.

357
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,479
Speaker 4: Pretty sure I've seen this meme already, but if not,

358
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 4: it belongs in this format. Joe Biden has the chance

359
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 4: to do that most hilarious thing ever with this new power,

360
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,719
Speaker 4: because it essentially means you could have a political rival

361
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 4: assassinated if you see or or judge that it is

362
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 4: a threat to democracy.

363
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 2: But you would never have to say that's exactly right, criminal,

364
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: or could just do it proven to any of the motivations.

365
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 2: You can't provide testimony that would call into question in

366
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 2: the motivations of any sitting president or their advisors.

367
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 3: Exactly this could be. This does eclude, this does encompass

368
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 3: things up to an including murder or for some of us,

369
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 3: even worse, treason, right and this leads us to here

370
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:50,239
Speaker 3: is why I posit this isn't a political concern. This

371
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 3: isn't everyone is in this together concern. It does not

372
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 3: matter who you vote for, It does not matter your

373
00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 3: political ideology is your own. Your spiritual idea algy, it's

374
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 3: your own. The beautiful thing about this country is you

375
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 3: don't get murdered for disagreeing with people. So far, this

376
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 3: is create This is a direct contradiction of one of

377
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 3: the big things the imperfect founding fathers were all about.

378
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 3: You know, we know what they loved. They loved silly

379
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 3: wigs and stockings. They were problematically into enslaving people. And

380
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 3: they also hated monarchies. That's like one of the main

381
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 3: reasons they started this whole weird experiment. No kings, right.

382
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 4: This feels weirdly monarchical things.

383
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 3: It's like somebody saying, hey, as the new managers of

384
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 3: the fire department, we looked into, you know, our bylaws,

385
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 3: and we really should be setting more houses on fire.

386
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, those same guys also thought we

387
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 2: shouldn't let the peons really decide who the next president's

388
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 2: going to be. We should come up with some form

389
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 2: of institution a college of sorts that would actually make

390
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 2: the informed decision, while you know, the peons get to

391
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 2: vote in their silly little election, and.

392
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 3: A couple of those, a couple of those slick bastards,

393
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 3: tried to get George Washington to be a king, which

394
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 3: is dumb. Not everybody agreed dad crazy ideas. Ben Franklin

395
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 3: looked at the alphabet and said, I've got a better take.

396
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: Thomas Jefferson looked at the Bible and said, I have

397
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 3: some notes, you know what I mean. These These were

398
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 3: real hold my beer guys. Plus they were often drunk,

399
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 3: if we're being honest.

400
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 2: But they had a cool idea, including no more kings.

401
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 3: Including no more kings. And thank you for bringing us

402
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 3: back to that, because that's the point we need to

403
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 3: stay on. This is literal stuff. They don't want you

404
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 3: to know, not necessarily what's happening now, that's all in

405
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 3: the public sphere, but the consequences, right, the long term plan,

406
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 3: not next year, but the next five years, the next ten,

407
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 3: the next twelve. And we want you hear your thoughts,

408
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 3: whether or not you are a legal scholar, what do

409
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 3: you foresee as the possible fallout of treasons? Supreme Court conspiracy.

410
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 3: iHeartRadio dot Com. We'll be back after a word from

411
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 3: our sponsors.

412
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: And we've returned. We're going to stay in court for

413
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 2: a moment. Not the Supreme one, the crimson King perhaps, No,

414
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: the Court of Massachusetts.

415
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: Yes, technically the sexiest court.

416
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I tell you what. Actually the specific

417
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 2: court here is the Norfolk Superior Court in Denham, Massachusetts.

418
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 3: And bothered. Wow those smoke shows.

419
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 2: Yes, we're jumping back to the Karen Reid murder trial

420
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 2: that we've been following since it was brought to our

421
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: attention almost exactly one year ago.

422
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 3: Guy, I retract my sex jokes. This is a murder trial.

423
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 2: This is a murder Yeah, very true.

424
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 3: I've un button my shirt back up. Sorry, no word

425
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 3: to take it too far.

426
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 2: But maxtout brought it to our attention almost exactly a

427
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: year ago, in July twenty twenty three, and we're gonna

428
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: give you yet another refresher as this is another update

429
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: from that trial. Karen Reid is a person, a woman

430
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 2: who was accused of killing her boyfriend, a Boston police

431
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: officer named John O'Keefe. It is alleged by the people

432
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: bringing those charges against her that she hit him with

433
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: her car in Canton. Is in Canton, Massachusetts, on January

434
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 2: twenty ninth, twenty twenty two. She has ever since charges

435
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: have been brought to her ever since the incident, denied

436
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 2: any involvement and claims that her boyfriend was in fact

437
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 2: killed at a house party where his body was found

438
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 2: right outside of it. The house party that had lots

439
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 2: and lots of police and other law enforcement officers on hand.

440
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 2: I guess they were also attending that party. There's also

441
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: an alleged dog attack. All kinds of stuff, very very complicated.

442
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 2: So Karen Reid was charged with second degree murder and

443
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: manslaughter while operating under the influence and leaving the scene

444
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: of personal injury and death. If she would have been

445
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: convicted of these charges, she would have spent the rest

446
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 2: of her life in jail. And I should be noted

447
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: the defense the attorneys that were working for Karen Reid

448
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: attempted to paint a picture of an elaborate conspiracy by

449
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 2: the law enforcement officers who were there at that party,

450
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: as well as others that were working in official capacities

451
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 2: and other people who were witnesses for the court in

452
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: this case. Well, after all the evidence was laid out.

453
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: After all the testimony, after all the closing arguments were completed,

454
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: Karen Reid's fate was in the hands of the jury,

455
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 2: and after twenty seven hours of deliberation, they failed to

456
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: reach a verdict. You guys, oh under yes, the trial's over,

457
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 2: and Judge Beverly Cononi t how you say your name?

458
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 2: C A N N one. She declared it a mistrial

459
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: and set July twenty second as the next day for

460
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 2: the court to get back in session to decide what's

461
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: going to happen next. It's a pretty big deal. There's

462
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: a lot of writing happening right now about it and

463
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: what's going on, and also what's specifically going on with

464
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 2: this guy, Michael Proctor, who was the lead investigator. Lots

465
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: of weird stuff in there. If anyone was following the case,

466
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 2: this is the guy who was, you know, leading the

467
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: investigation and then also texting with personal friends and colleagues

468
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,719
Speaker 2: about Karen Reid and saying some pretty messed up things

469
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: and very strange, very very strange trial. But I guess

470
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: that's the update. If anyone has any specific things they

471
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: want to talk about, I guess just send your thoughts

472
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: our way. You can email us or we'll tell you

473
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: how to call us at the end here. But yeah,

474
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: mistrial guys, it's weird how that can work, where basically

475
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: defense attorneys all they have to do is create enough

476
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: doubt about the official charges right and the investigation to

477
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: make some jurors, even just a few, maybe just one,

478
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 2: even say no, I absolutely will not come to unanimous

479
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: decision with you about guilt or not guilt.

480
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 3: Here, we've all seen twelve angry men, which is just

481
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 3: a master work, and.

482
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 4: I've actually not seen it. And I mean to you

483
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 4: very much.

484
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 3: I sometimes look around our cohort and wonder who I

485
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 3: would cast as like members of a jury and what

486
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: kind of conversations we would have, because over the years

487
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: we've had some really intense and strange conversations. But to

488
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 3: that point, however, about a case being tainted, it's something

489
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 3: that prosecutors take very seriously because in this judicial system,

490
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 3: something that goes wrong or something that is an unethical

491
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: actor outside of procedure for the quote unquote good guys,

492
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: then that can ruin the case, regardless of if the

493
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: criminal action is pretty certain.

494
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you've heard that before, And that's a huge

495
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: trope in American media, shoddy police work right ruin. Yeah.

496
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 2: But in the hey, in this case, right after the

497
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: mistrial was declared, we're talking hours. This trooper Michael Proctor,

498
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: he's he's a Massachusetts State Police officer. He was relieved

499
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: of duty and reassigned from his role as an investigator

500
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: with a Norfolk District Attorney's office. They were like, you

501
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: did so bad in this whole thing. You're gone.

502
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 3: And doesn't he have an ia investigation?

503
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: Internal? Yeah, internal affairs investigation going on with that guy

504
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: right now?

505
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 3: Good?

506
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: Not great, not great, but it makes you wonder about

507
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: you know, what don't we know and what won't we

508
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: ever know because of you know what they find in

509
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 2: that internal investigations case.

510
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 4: Well, and the hung jury is the ultimate tool of

511
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 4: like things like jury tampering as well, Like that's what

512
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 4: you hope for, is you know, some plant that's like

513
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 4: the loan holdout that keeps a unanimous decision from being rendered.

514
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: But in this case, it doesn't mean this is a trial, right, No.

515
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 4: No, no, of course it does, but it's like a

516
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 4: ultimate kind of hang up and it seeds doubt as well.

517
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 3: You know, the American jury duty so bad?

518
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 4: Have you guys both done it.

519
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 3: I never get cast. No, I'm sorry, I shouldn't describe

520
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 3: it as an audition, but it does feel like an audition.

521
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 3: They can tell I'm too on board with civic duty.

522
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 4: I think I've mentioned I was cast once, and I

523
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 4: do feel like I swayed some of the jurors in

524
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 4: what I would argue it's a positive direction. It was

525
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 4: a civil case and it was about awarding somebody some damages.

526
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 4: But then the second time I did the audition, I

527
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 4: was not cast, and it was because the you know,

528
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 4: they basically present to you the basics of what the

529
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 4: case is, to the point where you kind of get

530
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 4: the gist of what's going on, how the injured party

531
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 4: was injured, and it involved a kidnapping type situation and

532
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 4: a hold up. And I had experienced a situation where

533
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 4: a neighbor of mine was home invaded and shot and

534
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 4: the neighbor, a friend of mine, came to my house

535
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 4: bloodied and tied up, and I expressed this story, and

536
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 4: I think they counted me out because they thought I

537
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 4: would be maybe two triggered by my experience.

538
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: On my end, I think it's just that it's the

539
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 3: same thing that happens when I'm in an exit row

540
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 3: at a plane and I have to give the verbal yes.

541
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 3: I'm just like a little too on board. I got

542
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 3: some nansome eyes and I'm like, yeah, let's go to court.

543
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: I don't know about jur number seven.

544
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: There's something in the eyes. But this also, you know,

545
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 3: I appreciate the point you're making about how this can

546
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,719
Speaker 3: be kind of a black box right in terms of

547
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 3: what options will be pursued, how things will shake out.

548
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 3: But one thing I love about this is the it

549
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 3: returns us to the point we'll always make, which is,

550
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: just because something has left the big headlines doesn't mean

551
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 3: the story is concluded, kind of like vaccines.

552
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 2: A think you ben do. For the second part of

553
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: this segment, we are talking bird flu boys H five

554
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: and one av and flu. We've talked about it on

555
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: the show before, talked about how it's getting in the cows.

556
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: It's transferred to the cows. Bird to cow not good.

557
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: Now we're watching humanity, that is, whether or not it's

558
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: going to go from cow to human because mammal to

559
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: mammal is a little easier than avian to mammal, and

560
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 2: it already did that zooanautic.

561
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 4: Is that right?

562
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 3: It jumps in right, yeah.

563
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, But it's in the cattle, it's in some of

564
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 2: the milk. According to the people who watch the milk.

565
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 3: I thought you were going to say, according to people

566
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 3: who drink milk, as though there's some weird edgy demographic.

567
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 4: Is the ones that like the raw stuff. They're the

568
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 4: edgy milk drinkers you will call her.

569
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 3: They're just out there. The mcpoils are out there, just

570
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 3: raw dog get milk.

571
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, always, but but no nothing, no, no aspersions cast

572
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 2: on the milks as you will. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Besides,

573
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: you know some of the barbaric ways they get the

574
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 2: milk out of the cows, you know, and they have

575
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 2: to make them have babies and then take the babies

576
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 2: away from them so they can make it.

577
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 3: Oh God, have you guys ever milked a cow?

578
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 4: No, I really squeeze those nips. I've seen video off.

579
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 3: It put me off milk for a while. Jeez. I

580
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 3: try not to think about it. But yeah, do you guys?

581
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 2: I just watched an old Tom Green video where he yes,

582
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 2: he does, and I think he might have been the

583
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 2: first one to do it in that capacity on camera.

584
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 4: Respects my bum is on the step. He was immortalized

585
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 4: in an Eminem song. It occurred to me the other

586
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 4: day a lot of people forgot Tom Green except in

587
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 4: that Eminem thing where history would be talking. What is

588
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 4: he talking about?

589
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 3: What is talking about? In this line? It was show

590
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 3: was not to know what a woman's glitter is? Intercourse

591
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 3: is yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, Wow?

592
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: What are we talking about? Guys?

593
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 3: Ye, vaccine scenes. We're we're delivering on our earlier tease

594
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 3: about m R in A conversations.

595
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: I think, oh, okay, we're gonna get to you. We're

596
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 2: gonna get to m R in A vaccines. Okay. So

597
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 2: the reason we're talking about this avian flu is because

598
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: we've been chatting about it for a while. Scientists have

599
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: been warning, raising little signs everywhere across the world, saying, guys,

600
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 2: this is this is kind of weird. This is not good.

601
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 2: And now, at least according to a Reuter's article that

602
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 2: I read this week, I think we all read perhaps

603
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 2: titled scientists wary of bird flu pandemic quote unfolding in

604
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 2: slow motion. Now, could that be scare tactics, Yes, it

605
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 2: could be. Could it be scientists actually saying, Hey, the

606
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 2: public and you know, journalists, a lot of us don't

607
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 2: really notice pandemics until they're really on that upward swing,

608
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: you know. And what these scientists are trying to say is,

609
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 2: we're noticing that we might be on that low, low

610
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: bell curve right at the beginning. It feels like that

611
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 2: to us. We want to raise a bigger flag now.

612
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: And since that is occurring, as you were saying, Ben,

613
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 2: that mRNA vaccine that we all know, because that's a new,

614
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: brand new technology for vaccines that was introduced during the

615
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 2: COVID nineteen pandemic that we all went through, where Moderna

616
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 2: and Fi's in a couple a bunch of other companies

617
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 2: attempted to use this new technology as a way to

618
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: fight viruses via vaccine.

619
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 3: Right.

620
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:15,479
Speaker 2: The mRNA thing, well, the real kicker here is that

621
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: Maderna is being given or granted, let's say, is that

622
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 2: how you would say it. They've been given a grant

623
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: by the government, or at least they've been tapped by

624
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 2: the government to develop an mRNA vaccine for the next

625
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 2: flu pandemic, the next outbreak. In this case, it would

626
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 2: be avian.

627
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 3: Flu, which has always I think for many years now,

628
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 3: avian flu has been a I don't want to call

629
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 3: it a backburner concern, but it's been a consistent part

630
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 3: of what scientists are warning us about, Like as you

631
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 3: mentioned NOL, the zoonotic aspect of an avian flu.

632
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 4: That could I mean.

633
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 3: They already have. We already have instances of this. A

634
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 3: lot of scientists will tell you it's it's similar to

635
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 3: the idea of the Yellowstone eruption, right, it is geologically certain,

636
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 3: we're not exactly sure when So when scientists are talking

637
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 3: about a possible bird flu pandemic, there they have been,

638
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 3: at least we know over the past few decades, increasingly

639
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 3: talking not in terms of if, but in terms of win.

640
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 4: Haven't we had minor bird flu pandemics. Yes, we're quite.

641
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: Deadly, well were pandemics whatever outbreaks.

642
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 4: But they were quite quite deadly. Couldn't you argue more

643
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 4: deadly even than COVID because people were killed not necessarily

644
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 4: because of byproducts of the condition, but because of the

645
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 4: condition itself. I guys, it's been a minute. I'm sorry.

646
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 4: I'm just reaching back into the memory banks. But for

647
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,919
Speaker 4: some reason, it occurs to me that when we had

648
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 4: instances of bird flu, it was real bad.

649
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 2: I would say when these types of zoonotic diseases jumped

650
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 2: in humans and with their zoonotic behavior, they are more

651
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: dangerous than stuff that humans have encountered before because we

652
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 2: have no immunity. There's no herd immunity. That's why the

653
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 2: vaccines were so important during the COVID nineteen pandemic. Right

654
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: when a bunch of people really quickly get sick with

655
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 2: the same thing and nobody has immunity, you can get

656
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 2: everybody sick, and then it's just becomes what is you know,

657
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 2: what's the what is the mortality rate of this thing?

658
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 4: Right? It's fifty percent is what I'm reading online right.

659
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: Now, perhaps of this new one, no, this past in

660
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: the past.

661
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 3: Okay, so that that would be like maybe the H

662
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 3: seven and nine in China. Yeah, and what we're talking

663
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 3: about actually is the new one.

664
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 4: That's right, but sorry, the mortality rate of the bird flu,

665
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 4: according to the Yale medicine that we've experienced thus far,

666
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 4: was fifty percent. Nine hundred people around the world that got.

667
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: In fact, well, all the more reason to get Maderna,

668
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 2: this huge corporation that's already had a home run with

669
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 2: her COVID nineteen vaccines. To create a new one. Right,

670
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: they're being paid one hundred and seventy six million dollars

671
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: to quote accelerate development of a pandemic influenza vaccine that

672
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 2: could be used to treat bird flu in people. That

673
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 2: is from ap News, posted on July second, twenty twenty four.

674
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 2: Why is this a weird thing, Well, that's because there

675
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: is still so much skepticism and fear about this specific

676
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 2: vaccine technology out there. If you go on TikTok, Instagram,

677
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: any of these places, you will see countless humans saying

678
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 2: this very thing out loud, how dangerous this vaccine technology is,

679
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: how it is doing various things, and how you know,

680
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 2: rumors of various world leaders and billionaires who are attempting

681
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: to get stuff into all of us through these vaccines.

682
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: Much of this, if not most of it, is just hearsay, rumors,

683
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 2: conspiracy theories that are unfounded. The one thing that is

684
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: founded is that this is a relatively new form of technology,

685
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 2: a new way to treat you know, diseases via vaccine,

686
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 2: which you know, all of us were kind of the

687
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 2: test subjects in the first round from twenty nineteen onwards.

688
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 2: So it is a bit weird that we're going this

689
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: way again. I don't know. I just want to put

690
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: that out there that it gives me pause thinking about it.

691
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, because again it's the and we're not necessarily co

692
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 3: signing some of the more out there conspiracies, not at all.

693
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 4: We yeah, but we.

694
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 3: Are arguing its matter of longitudinal data, right, what happens

695
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 3: over time, And the problem is when stuff comes out

696
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 3: without the public being prepped for it, without scooting that

697
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 3: perspective and over to window toward normalization, then it sounds

698
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 3: like a new crazy thing, which kind of the science

699
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 3: is amazing. It is sort of a new crazy thing,

700
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 3: if we're being honest. But because of that, and because

701
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 3: of all the other stuff people have heard associated with

702
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 3: these scientific concepts like DNA and RNA. For most people,

703
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 3: when you hear mRNA, then you're immediately thinking of what

704
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 3: like ancestry, dot com, copaganda, cold cases, true crime podcast,

705
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It's got it's a weird

706
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 3: millage of things, right, all all soaked up in there.

707
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 3: So maybe I don't know. It's always right to ask questions,

708
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,919
Speaker 3: but it is also true that with any new technology

709
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 3: there is potential for unforeseen consequences. I'm trying to be

710
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 3: very careful about saying that we just we haven't spoken

711
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 3: to no one has come back from the future in

712
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 3: linear time and told us, you know, I'm from one

713
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty years after you, guys, and mRNA has

714
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 3: wrecked the planet or it.

715
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 2: Was the best man. It really fixed everything.

716
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 3: Guys. The future is so hi, do you have any spirit?

717
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 2: MODERNA is the new president this year. It's intense.

718
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 3: The presidents are all now companies.

719
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's gonna happen no

720
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: matter what. The outcome of this.

721
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 3: Citizens was Oh my god, America Premium.

722
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 2: Yes, if you're interested in this stuff, look up Biomedical

723
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: Advanced Research and Development Authority or BARTA. That's the program

724
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 2: that awarded Moderna this one hundred and seventy six million

725
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: dollars to accelerate the development of a pandemic influence of vaccine.

726
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 2: All right, tell us what you know about this stuff,

727
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: what your thoughts are, and we will be right back

728
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 2: with more strange news.

729
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 4: And we've returned with one more piece of strange news. Ben.

730
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 4: It was an oddly prescientth that you mentioned. With new

731
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 4: technology often comes unforeseen consequences. We've talked a lot about

732
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 4: the use of AI, of generative AI, of machine learning,

733
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 4: whatever your you know, expression d jour is to describe

734
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 4: this new technology that is advancing rapidly. The funny thing

735
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 4: is a lot of what we're seeing is a little clownish.

736
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 4: We're seeing it used for stuff like making cute anime

737
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 4: portraits of ourselves or generating goofy songs or whatever. And

738
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 4: we you know, we certainly have seen interesting, you know,

739
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 4: kind of effective, positive uses of it, but a lot

740
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 4: of it has been stuff that gives us pause in

741
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 4: terms of like trying to automate people's jobs into oblivion,

742
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 4: you know, using AI things like chat GPT, which is still,

743
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 4: while impressive, not great. I've been watching YouTube videos over

744
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 4: the last few days with a buddy of mine who

745
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 4: pointed out that the AI generated subtitles on YouTube, while

746
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 4: often okay when you watch like old Moni Python episodes,

747
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 4: leave a lot to be desired. They get real jammed

748
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 4: up on British slang and you know, certain colloquialisms and things.

749
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 4: So it's actually kind of almost an extra layer of

750
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 4: comedy to watch the ridiculous things that the AI subtitles say.

751
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 3: Anything with an accent also a lot of spoken word

752
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 3: or hip hop. It's kind of you know what, it reminds

753
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 3: me of no is. It reminds me of being in

754
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 3: a different country and finding or watching a foreign film

755
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 3: that has like the English subtitles and the pro move.

756
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 4: If you want to get real weird.

757
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 3: With it, find a very popular foreign film like Kung

758
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 3: Fu Hustle, get the DVD that already has some subtitles,

759
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 3: and then watch it with another set of subtitles on

760
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 3: top of it, and then you'll see how tricky it

761
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 3: is for humans to translate things.

762
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 4: Those kind of colloquial sort of expressions that are very

763
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 4: dependent on meter and rhythm of speech and cadence and

764
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 4: all of that stuff. But what we're really talking about today,

765
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 4: the unintended consequence is that I was hinting at, is

766
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 4: power consumption. You know, despite a lot of the things

767
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 4: that we're seeing AI being used for seeming somewhat frivolous,

768
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 4: we know beneath that it's being developed relentlessly by a

769
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 4: lot of giant companies to use for god knows what.

770
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 4: That's the part that we don't fully understand yet. And

771
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 4: with that comes these kind of I guess they're chips

772
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 4: called AI accelerators, and also just the processing power that

773
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 4: it takes to run all of the computations, you know,

774
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 4: to generate these goofy videos or you know whatever anime portraits.

775
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 4: And it is kind of insane the increase in power

776
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 4: demand to the grid that we're seeing with these these

777
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 4: next generation chips, with these AI accelerators, and with the

778
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 4: increased demand on just AI in general. A conversation we

779
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 4: were having a handful of years ago around this was

780
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 4: people who were using graphics cards and processors GPUs to

781
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 4: run crypto mining operations and how much power was being

782
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 4: sucked from the grid to do these crypto mining situations,

783
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 4: and how people would just stack these you know, almost

784
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 4: like private server rooms full of these graphics cards and

785
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 4: just constantly be running them and it was generating insane

786
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 4: amounts of demand on the grid. Well think about that,

787
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 4: and you know, multiply it by an order of magnitude higher.

788
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 4: There is a great article on Forbes AI power consumption

789
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 4: rapidly becoming mission critical and just just to quote the

790
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 4: first paragraph here from Beth Kindig, big tech is spending

791
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 4: tens of billions quarterly on AI accelerators, which has led

792
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 4: to an exponential increase in power consumption. Over the past

793
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 4: few months. Multiple forecasts and data points reveal soaring data

794
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 4: center electricity demand and surging power consumption. The rise of

795
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 4: generative AI and the surging GPU shipments is causing data

796
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 4: centers scale from tens of thousands to one hundred thousand

797
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 4: plus accelerators, shifting the emphasis to power as a mission

798
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 4: critical problem to solve.

799
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, it's I love that

800
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 3: you're mentioning the crypto the cryptocarbon consequence. I want to

801
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 3: be alliterative to my understanding here. One of the issues

802
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 3: is that the public overall still doesn't have a full

803
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,479
Speaker 3: grasp on like we know some stats for Google, right

804
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 3: or alphabet, I should say, but we don't know the

805
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 3: full global consequences of this power demand in terms like

806
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 3: we I don't know. I think it'd be smart to

807
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 3: have AGI immediately figure out improvements in solar technology. That's

808
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 3: probably the easiest way around it.

809
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 4: That's interesting that you used to say that, Ben. Another

810
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 4: article that I wanted to bring up is by Chuck DeVore,

811
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 4: who who I believe is with the Texas Public Policy Foundation,

812
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 4: and he wrote an op ed for The Federalist the

813
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 4: title being AIS insatiable appetite for energy can't be satisfied

814
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 4: by renewables.

815
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 3: So oh boy, well, it's also I'll say it, it's

816
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 3: also the federalist.

817
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough.

818
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 4: But the pull quote here is AI is bringing an

819
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 4: unprecedented surge and energy consumption, whether policymakers understand the energy

820
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 4: implications or not. And he says, in the realm of

821
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 4: artificial intelligence, where data crunching and machine learning algorithms reigned supreme,

822
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 4: the demand for energy has emerged as a critical concern.

823
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 3: Mark P.

824
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 4: Mills, the executive director of the National Center for Energy

825
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 4: Analytics at the Texas Public Policy Foundation, which this gentleman

826
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 4: Chuck Devoor overseas, argues that the energy requirements for the

827
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 4: AI systems are far more substantial than most of us. No,

828
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 4: his insights paying a sobering picture of the energy landscape

829
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 4: that awaits us. AI continues its relentless advance into every

830
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 4: facet of modern life, he says, the global or actually,

831
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 4: according to the International Energy Agency, the global electricity consumption

832
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 4: by AI alone could reach one thousand tarawatt hours annually

833
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 4: by twenty twenty six, slightly more than the total electricity

834
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 4: consumption of Japan.

835
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 3: Wow.

836
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 2: Uh, I was just looking at that Forbes article, Noel,

837
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: just it's laying out all of the wattage used per

838
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 2: they call them accelerators the GPUs basically that are being

839
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 2: put out by all these companies and talking about how

840
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 2: it's a some of them have a fifty percent, seventy

841
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 2: five percent, three hundred percent increase in power of usage

842
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: over each generation, and just trying to track that and

843
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 2: figure out like where what is that thing called guys?

844
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 2: Where you hit the you hit the peak. So there's

845
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 2: two things in my mind that are going here. How

846
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 2: technology tends to have that acceleration that is exponentially, but

847
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 2: but we we keep hitting these like blocks to where

848
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 2: current technology only will allow us to get to certain

849
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 2: speed or size or whatever like Moore's law. That's it,

850
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 2: that's its Yeah, like we're we're hitting both of those.

851
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 2: But as we get into this like some of the

852
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 2: quantum stuff and all of that, like I don't.

853
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 4: Know, there's no longer those built in kind of caps, right.

854
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, but who knows how far off that actually is,

855
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 2: but it is coming.

856
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 3: You're absolutely right, and these are just proven, proven trends

857
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 3: of human made technology that we're all we're all aware of, right,

858
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 3: they have been proven at this point so far, and

859
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 3: it's going to take a real groundbreaking shift to change

860
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 3: some of those realities. Quantum uh sorry, quantum technology, I

861
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 3: should say, maybe one of those game changers. One thing

862
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 3: for sure, however, the big thing that is going to

863
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 3: sty me progress in this situation is the secrecy, because

864
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 3: until we can understand, if you don't know the depth

865
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 3: and breadth and specifics of a problem, you have vastly

866
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 3: reduced your ability to solve for that problem.

867
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 4: And I feel like that's part of why the stuff

868
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 4: that the public is seeing that's being trotted out feels

869
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 4: kind of frivolous, because it's sort of like a fun

870
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 4: new shiny toy that gives us agency to play around

871
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 4: with this new tech in a way that's like entertaining.

872
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 4: You know, Oh, it's no big deal. Look, it's just

873
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 4: like a weird new Instagram filter TikTok or whatever. But

874
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 4: actually there's much more going on beneath the surface, and

875
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 4: much more energy being expended that we don't have a

876
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 4: view into in terms of like the transparency of how

877
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 4: much is this actually affecting our resources?

878
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a good point because we also

879
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 3: we also have to realize that this is emergent technology,

880
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 3: which means that any numbers people do pull are going

881
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 3: to be pretty perishable and perhaps less relevant within the

882
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 3: span of just a month, which is nuts to think about.

883
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 3: It's bonkers, but it is true. And also, you know,

884
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 3: Pandora's jar has unscrewed. You can't put AI back into

885
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 3: the box. This is not done where they have the

886
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 3: Butleryan jihad against thinking machines. They're on the way. This

887
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 3: is overall a good thing if we can figure it out.

888
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 3: But my my uninformed hope I'm trying to be optimistic nowadays,

889
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 3: is that you know, we've seen we've seen machine learning

890
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 3: models make tremendous improvements in engineering, right, both in the

891
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 3: space of weapons but also in the space of civilian

892
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 3: tech and really arcane problems that may maybe a couple

893
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 3: thousand people in the world would even understand. Right, And

894
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 3: this stuff, these spells, that's what I mean. Programming is

895
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 3: basically casting a spell.

896
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 4: Well, we thought, yeah, it's like incantation, and the best

897
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 4: people that understand the language can do the best version

898
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 4: of the spell.

899
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 3: So these algorithms, these things, these creatures conjured through these

900
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 3: spells seem to have a clear advantage on improving concepts

901
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 3: of engineering. They're better at that than they are having

902
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 3: a human like conversation. So maybe this is my hope.

903
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 3: Maybe we can while we're still heading toward that inflection

904
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 3: point like you were talking about, Matt, Maybe there's time

905
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 3: enough before the car hits the tree or goes over

906
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 3: the cliff elm and Lewis style. Maybe there is enough

907
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 3: time to get some of these machine learning projects on

908
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 3: to renewable energy and maybe hopefully disprove the statements of

909
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 3: Chuck Devar, who's also you know, a politician.

910
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 4: Fair enough, I would ask you, when have we ever

911
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 4: done that? And it does feel to me a lot

912
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 4: like the folks that are wielding the stuff you know,

913
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 4: at the highest levels are big time putting the cart

914
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 4: before the ecological horse.

915
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, I think there's time for all of us

916
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 2: to decide social media is no longer worth it, and

917
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: we can just rise above and we will no longer

918
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 2: need memes and AI generated cartoons, and there's a world

919
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 2: where we go outside and we take tree limbs and

920
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: we play with them like swords. Again, touch grass.

921
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,760
Speaker 4: You should run for office Matt, that's very stirring the

922
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 4: stump speech there, but only at night.

923
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 3: Yes, this is why you see the problem with coalition

924
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 3: parts in politics, right, Matt pitched the idea. One of

925
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 3: us is on board, right, the other one was was

926
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 3: I agree, asterisk, and we're only doing that at night, right.

927
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 2: Now, that's fine dusk stick swordsmanship. That's what we'll call it.

928
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 4: That's our whole platform.

929
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 2: It is.

930
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 4: Uh, this is something probably to look at in a

931
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 4: bigger agreed dive. So I'm gonna keep this one short.

932
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 4: That's it, basically, that's the gist is that. And I

933
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 4: don't know that it's necessarily that surprising to anybody, but

934
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 4: here it is from some you know, folks that more

935
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 4: or less know what they're talking about.

936
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:40,280
Speaker 3: And we have to wonder too, what our timeline looks

937
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 3: like for that, you know, for that possible inflection point.

938
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 3: You brought a statistic that I really want to underline

939
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 3: all which is the idea that these machine learning models

940
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 3: and these infrastructures could become countries of their own in

941
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 3: terms of power consumption. And the question then is, you know,

942
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 3: we're not the experts. Obviously, we don't pretend to be

943
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 3: so but we would love to know what you think

944
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 3: that timeline might be. Is it going to be an

945
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 3: hour lifetime? You know, are we going to run into

946
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 3: it at that point or I don't know. It feels

947
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 3: like things are accelerating. There's a snowball.

948
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 2: Okay. So the guys, these GPUs, they give off a

949
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 2: tremendous amount of heat. That's one of the big problems,

950
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 2: right right. Do you think there's a way we can

951
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 2: design a system that captures the heat from the GPUs

952
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 2: to then turn that into power for the GPUs.

953
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 4: It's interesting that there are certain home appliances or like

954
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 4: you know, on the you know, like heaters and things

955
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 4: that actually harness heat from.

956
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 3: The ground and energy.

957
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 4: That's exactly right. So I mean it's certainly possible. And I,

958
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 4: for example, have a do humidifier that runs down in

959
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 4: my studio all the time and it pulls moisture out

960
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 4: of the air. Like you just got to wonder if

961
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 4: this is a thing that should be being discussed, like

962
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,439
Speaker 4: how do we take a byproduct and turn it into

963
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 4: a net gain in that blastic human Yeah.

964
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 2: It would be like a hybrid engine the way they

965
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 2: use the wheel movement to then recharge the battery. You

966
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 2: would use the heat from the GPUs as it's generated

967
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 2: to recharge the power system that's supplying the GPUs. Guys,

968
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 2: we can do this basically.

969
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 3: You just need to figure out how to take something

970
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 3: we already have and use that to spend something to

971
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 3: create more power. So we could also link it to

972
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 3: tidal power. Oh, I'm quite bullish on because because it's free, right.

973
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 2: Right, What if we had hundreds of thousands of people

974
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 2: locked in rooms with an electric bike of some sort

975
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 2: where they would pedal on the bike.

976
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 4: And also, like what you're talking about too, would only

977
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 4: work in the largest over the arrays in one location, right,

978
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 4: and that would also require harge scale buy in from

979
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 4: these giant corporations. And unless they were absolutely you know,

980
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 4: forced to do this or it was some sort of

981
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 4: marketing move because things had already gotten so bad they

982
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:15,959
Speaker 4: needed a win in terms of like public opinion, only

983
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 4: then would they do it. They're not going to just

984
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 4: do it on their own. I'm not going to benevolently

985
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 4: say here, take our AI GPU heat and like do something.

986
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 4: You know, let's let's figure out how to funnel it.

987
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 4: It's the same reason that we can't desalinate the ocean

988
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 4: or like it's way too expensive and requires a lot

989
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 4: of entergale.

990
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 3: Right, and there's a lot of Yeah, there's a lot

991
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 3: of really fascinating technology that's going on here. And folks,

992
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,919
Speaker 3: we want to tell you. If you are a physicist

993
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 3: and you clearly know why, like you clearly know why

994
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 3: these projects that we're spitballing haven't been done yet, write

995
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 3: in and let us know from you.

996
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 2: Oh god no.

997
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 3: Also wait, wait, wait, this is this is a double

998
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 3: edged sword. Here, give us the facts and then give

999
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 3: us the crazy part. We want to hear you pitch

1000
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 3: a weird idea and we want to hear you know

1001
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,439
Speaker 3: what I mean. Like it's a big thing for us.

1002
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 3: We don't like to show up just with problems. We

1003
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 3: like to bring solutions.

1004
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 4: And I'm not suggesting anyone wants to desalinate the ocean.

1005
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 4: I'm just talking about another source of.

1006
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 2: Salinate.

1007
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, look at the way the human civilization is. They've

1008
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 3: been on that the ocean thing for a while.

1009
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 4: Now we're going to keep going.

1010
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 3: I'm sorry cursied so much, but folks, we hope you

1011
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 3: enjoyed this evening strange news. Uh, we are going to

1012
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 3: return with even more explorations. Uh, we want to hear

1013
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 3: from you legal experts, non legal experts, people who are

1014
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 3: worried about things in general. Let us know. Also, well

1015
01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,959
Speaker 3: a million other things. We'll catch up next time. Would

1016
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 3: try to be easy to find online.

1017
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 4: Find us online at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we

1018
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 4: exist on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's where it

1019
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 4: gets crazy. On x FKA, Twitter and on YouTube with

1020
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 4: video content coming at you on the regular. On Instagram

1021
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 4: and TikTok, you can find us at the handle conspiracy stuff.

1022
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 2: Show the heat syncs on the GPU rather than just

1023
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 2: taking that heat away and accepting it excites. Yes, they

1024
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 2: accept it and they transfer that heat. I can see it, you, guys,

1025
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 2: I can see it. If you want to call us,

1026
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 2: call one eight three three STDWYTK that's our voicemail system.

1027
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 2: When you call in, you've got three minutes. Say whatever

1028
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 2: you'd like do. Give yourself a cool nickname. We don't

1029
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 2: care what it is, and we're excited to hear what

1030
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 2: you choose. Let us know if we can use that

1031
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 2: name and your voice on one of our listener mail episodes.

1032
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 2: And if you've got more to say, then can fit

1033
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 2: in one of those tiny, little three minute maximum voicemails.

1034
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 2: Why not instead send us a good old fashion email.

1035
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every every single email

1036
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 3: we get. We also received just now an interesting piece

1037
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 3: of correspondence from chat GPT. Heychat GPT. We asked, how

1038
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 3: do you think we can fix the problem of AI

1039
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 3: creating excess carbon emissions? Chat GPT said, it's a multifaceted approach,

1040
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 3: integrating technological operational policy measures, improve energy efficiency, AI models,

1041
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 3: green data centers, sustainable practices distributed an edge computing awareness

1042
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 3: and collaboration. Got a little ted talkie at the end.

1043
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 4: I'm wondering if green data centers are a thing we

1044
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 4: should look at in the future too. Does that involve

1045
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 4: some kind of harnessing of thereby proc I wonder if

1046
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 4: what you're describing that is a thing you know it's

1047
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 4: too good to know.

1048
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 3: So green data centers, this is exactly what I was

1049
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 3: talking about, powered by renewable energy sources such as solar. Sorry,

1050
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 3: Chuck Devor, I respectfully disagree, And we'll also ask some

1051
01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 3: questions about your campaign funding.

1052
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 4: So anyway, I don't know about this guy. You seem

1053
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 4: to know a bit more about this guy than I.

1054
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 4: Do so. I tried to at least have two perspectives,

1055
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 4: but yeah, Ed.

1056
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 3: Ed, They're right. Obviously, this is a conversation we're going

1057
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 3: to pick up again because we're all heated up about it.

1058
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 3: I've even turned my screen read I think, look, he.

1059
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 4: Heated you're really hot out of the collar, bet walk with.

1060
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 3: Us into the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1061
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production

1062
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1063
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.