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Speaker 1: Following an alleged affair with a staff member, Alabama Governor

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Speaker 1: Robert Bentley may face criminal charges that carry penalties up

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Speaker 1: of up to twenty years in jail, and he may

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Speaker 1: also be impeached. After a year long investigation, the state's

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Speaker 1: ethics panel has found probable caused that Bentley broke both

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Speaker 1: ethics and campaign finance laws, and Alabama's House Judiciary Committee

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Speaker 1: is on the verge of releasing the results of its

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Speaker 1: own investigation into Bentley's conduct. I he is, he's denied

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Speaker 1: any wrongdoing, however, the governor has, but now the case

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Speaker 1: will go to prosecutors to decide whether to charge him.

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Speaker 1: Here to talk with us about, uh, what is not

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Speaker 1: a good time for the governor of Alabama? Or John

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Speaker 1: Carroll a professor at Cumberland School of Law at Sanford University,

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Speaker 1: and Jenny Carroll, a professor at the University of Alabama

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Speaker 1: School of Law. And I'll note that Professor Carol and

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Speaker 1: Professor Carol are not related, despite their last names being

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Speaker 1: the same. Jenny, it's a there's so much going on

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Speaker 1: that's not good for the Governor of Alabama right now.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to know where to start on

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Speaker 1: this subject. But why don't you take us through with

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Speaker 1: sort of factually what it's alleged that he has done wrong. Sure, so, UM,

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Speaker 1: all of this stems out of allegations, mainly from two

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Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen that the governor misused both campaign funds

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Speaker 1: as well as state resources. UM. He used them for

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Speaker 1: both his legal defense once issues had been raised, UM,

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Speaker 1: as you note about an alleged affair with a staffer, UM.

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Speaker 1: But he also used UM various public resources including personnel,

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Speaker 1: to cover up and conceal as the investigation went forward

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Speaker 1: the alleged affair. So the allegation is that he had

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Speaker 1: a personal relationship UM with Rebecca Mason, whom his UM

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Speaker 1: office was paying in excess of four hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: UM during his re election campaign and thereafter UM. And

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Speaker 1: then he was using state resources to further that affair

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Speaker 1: and cover it up. UM. So, as you point out,

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Speaker 1: there has been an ethics investigation that has concluded on

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Speaker 1: four accounts that there was in fact a violation of

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Speaker 1: Alabama's ethics. The matter has been referred to Montgomery County

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Speaker 1: District Attorney's office, and it's up to them to decide

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Speaker 1: whether or not they want to pursue criminal charges. I'm

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Speaker 1: tempted to ask a question of Professor Carroll just to

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Speaker 1: see what happens, but um, I'll instead just asked John, um, so,

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Speaker 1: so as I understand that there was already a special

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Speaker 1: prosecutor that was looking into these allegations against the governor. So, so,

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Speaker 1: what is the significance of the Ethics Commission uh doing

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Speaker 1: what it did this week? Well, I think it's enacted

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Speaker 1: as both legal and political significance. I mean, this played

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Speaker 1: out obviously in front of news media from all over

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Speaker 1: the state. But I think more importantly, this is a

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Speaker 1: major step having said that the governor that there's probable

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Speaker 1: cause and believe that the governor has violated the Ethics

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Speaker 1: Act of the campaign finance laws. So it's a legal

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Speaker 1: problem because the governor is now referred for prosecution to

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Speaker 1: a district attorney. But it's also a political problem because

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Speaker 1: of the fact that this afternoon the report on impeachment

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Speaker 1: is going to be released. Yeah, and you can't see

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Speaker 1: me nodding my head, but John really hit the nail

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Speaker 1: on the head. I was just going to ask you,

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Speaker 1: if you're nodding your head, go ahead, But I I

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Speaker 1: am I'm glad that that came through the radio. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think also and and again, you know,

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Speaker 1: because of the state politics and state politics are always

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Speaker 1: very exciting, particularly in Alabama. UM. There's also questions because

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Speaker 1: of course the original prosecutor, the Attorney General Luther Strange,

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Speaker 1: suspended the investigation and then shortly thereafter received appointment to

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Speaker 1: Jeff's Sessions um former seat after Sessions became Attorney general

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Speaker 1: under Trump. So there's all sort of political intrigue going

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Speaker 1: on here. So you have on the one side the

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Speaker 1: criminal issue, UM. You have on the other side the

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Speaker 1: political issues, which include the impeachment issue, but also kind

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Speaker 1: of these larger questions of improper influence UM, whether or

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Speaker 1: not Bentley was using his power of governor to try

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Speaker 1: to influence UH strangers investigation. And of course a new

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Speaker 1: special prosecutor UM was appointed. UM. That special prosecutor in

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Speaker 1: February of two thousand and six is really what pushed

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Speaker 1: forward UM a lot of the issues we're seeing now

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Speaker 1: with the Ethics Commission. UM. And so it's kind of

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Speaker 1: an exciting time to be talking about ethics and Alabama. Well,

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Speaker 1: exciting is one word for it. Certainly, John you know

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Speaker 1: that we we've been talking a bit about the We've

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Speaker 1: been talking mostly about the Ethics Panel, but the you know,

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Speaker 1: the House Judiciary Committee in Alabama is is going to

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Speaker 1: issue a report. There's possible impeachment proceedings. What what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen procedurally now in legislature, Procedurally this report is

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Speaker 1: doing this afternoon and next week the committee begins hearing

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Speaker 1: on the question of whether refer whether to refer articles

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Speaker 1: impeachment to the whole House uh, and then the House

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Speaker 1: would decide whether in fact to impeach the governmentally impeach

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Speaker 1: the governor, he'd have a full trial in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: But I think this today in next week is really

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Speaker 1: a pivotal time in this case because for the first time,

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Speaker 1: a lot of public evidence is going to come out.

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Speaker 1: The Ethics Commission proceedings are all grand jury behind closed doors.

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Speaker 1: This is all public. So this could be a very

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Speaker 1: very difficult week for the governor. Jenny, I hear all this,

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Speaker 1: and I'm thinking to myself, how is the governor, you know,

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Speaker 1: even still in office right now? Just politically? Um, If

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Speaker 1: this report has the kind of allegations that would back

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Speaker 1: up the probable cause finding of the of the Ethics Commission.

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Speaker 1: Is there any way politically he can stick around? Do

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Speaker 1: you think? Wow? Good question. I mean he is at

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Speaker 1: the end of his second term. He's precluded from reelection,

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Speaker 1: So in terms of that type of vulnerability, he doesn't

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Speaker 1: have that. UM. I mean yeah. The trick and you

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Speaker 1: know John is alluding to this. The trick is with

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Speaker 1: the Ethics Commission. It was closed doors. UM, we do

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Speaker 1: not know who to testified. Well, we know who testified,

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Speaker 1: we don't know precisely what they testified to. UM. Even

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Speaker 1: Bentley when he came to testify himself on Wednesday, they

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Speaker 1: cleared people out of that area. Um. They literally cleared

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Speaker 1: the office floor so that no one could see that

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Speaker 1: Bentley was going in. UM. And so there's been a

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Speaker 1: lot of secrecy around the Ethics Commission. Now, when the

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Speaker 1: impeachment report comes out, whatever it's finding, when it comes

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Speaker 1: out later today, UM, we will not only know who testified,

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Speaker 1: but will know what the substance of their testimony was.

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Speaker 1: And that will give us a better idea of how

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Speaker 1: politically dead in the water is Bentley. The other issue, UM,

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Speaker 1: for Bentley is again is as enticing as it is

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Speaker 1: to talk about this as a sex scandal, and that

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Speaker 1: is always enticing, But I mean, what this is really

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Speaker 1: about is the trail of trust and misuse of public resources.

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Speaker 1: And Bentley ran on a campaign that he was the

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Speaker 1: non political politician, that he was going to go in

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Speaker 1: and he was the everyman, he was not kind of

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Speaker 1: business as usual politics. And what this suggests is that

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Speaker 1: Bentley's possent s and as that every man was not accurate,

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Speaker 1: that he in fact was a business as usual politician,

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Speaker 1: at least with regard to his misuse of public funds

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Speaker 1: um and his covering up a personal scandal um with

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Speaker 1: Alabama public resources. So, I mean, I I do think

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Speaker 1: it's gonna it's going to have political ramifications for Bentley. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, the question is will have to have larger

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Speaker 1: ramifications for the Republican Party. UM. I doubt that it's

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Speaker 1: pretty strong here in Alabama, but it certainly could. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it certainly raises questions of can you trust um what

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Speaker 1: these politicians tell us. Well, our thanks to two legal

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Speaker 1: experts from the state of Alabama, John Carroll, or, professor

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Speaker 1: at Cumberland School of Law at Stanford University, and Jenny Carroll,

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Speaker 1: a professor at the University of Alabama School of Law,

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Speaker 1: talking to us about the U. In Jenny's words, exciting

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Speaker 1: times for the governor of Alabama, who's facing possible ethics

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Speaker 1: and criminal charges and perhaps is going to be impeached,